HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN COUNCIL 2024-05-16 2022-2024 Special Hawaii County Council
39th Session
Special Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
May 16, 2024
INVOCATION: Pastor Evan Carmichael of Arise Church gave the morning's invocation.
CALL TO The special meeting of the Hawaii County Council was called to order at
ORDER: 9:02 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair
Ms. Cindy Evans, Member
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (came in later)
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member (came in later)
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (came in later)
PLEDGE OF The Chair directed the Council to the next order of business, Pledge of
ALLEGIANCE: Allegiance.
(At this time, County Clerk Jon Henricks led the Council in
the Pledge of Allegiance.)
PETITIONS, The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Petitions,
MEMORIALS, Memorials, Certificates of Merit, and Expressions of Condolence.
CERTIFICATES
OF MERIT, AND (There were none.)
EXPRESSIONS OF
CONDOLENCE:
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by
the Chair:
Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
John Matson: Bill 137, Draft 2 (Comm. 756.1), in support.
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Bills for
ORDINANCES Ordinances (First Reading).
(FIRST READING):
Bill 136: ESTABLISHES AN OPERATING BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII
FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2024, TO JUNE 30, 2025
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated March 1, 2024, transmitting for consideration
the proposed Operating Budget for the County of Hawaii for the Fiscal Year
ending June 30, 2025. This balanced budget includes estimated revenues and
appropriations of$888,082,546, which represents a proposed 6.6 percent increase
compared to the Fiscal Year 2023-24 Operating Budget.
Reference: Comm. 755
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
Approve: FC-152
Public Hearing: May 14, 2024
and
Comm. 755.10: From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated May 3, 2024, transmitting Bill 136, Draft 2.
Draft 2 reflects an increase in estimated revenues and appropriations of$32,017,251
over the first draft, reflects higher than expected real property tax collections, and
proposes corresponding funding adjustments.
; and
Bill 136: ESTABLISHES AN OPERATING BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII
(Draft 2) FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2024, TO JUNE 30, 2025
Draft 2 includes estimated revenues and appropriations of$920,099,797.
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
and
Comm. 755.11: From Council Member Jenn Kagiwada, dated May 7, 2024, transmitting proposed
(Memo No. 1) amendments to the General Fund by increasing the Fund Balance from Previous
Year revenue account by $150,000, and increasing the Animal Control,
Miscellaneous Contract Services expenditure account by the same amount to create
a new line item to collaborate with a service provider for community outreach and
data collection.
(Note: Communication Nos. 755.12 through 755.20 and 755.22 through 755.26,
transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 136, Draft 2, were circulated. In
addition, Communication No. 755.21 transmitting a PowerPoint presentation was
circulated.)
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to pass Bill 136 on first reading and adopt
Finance Committee Report No. 152. Seconded by
Ms. Kierkiewicz.
CHR. KIMBALL: Pursuant to Article X, Section 10-2 of the Hawaii County
Charter, the Mayor has submitted an amended operating budget to the Council on
May 3rd, 2024. Just a reminder, we have to amend Draft 1 with the Mayor's
proposed Draft 2 before we can discuss any of the amendments proposed by this
body. Any discussion on Draft 1 before we amend to Draft 2? All right, seeing
none, Vice Chair Inaba, may I have a motion to amend Bill No. 136 with the
proposed Draft 2 submitted by the Mayor via Communication 755.10.
Motion to Amend: Mr. Inaba moved to amend Bill 136 with the contents of
Comm. 755.10. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz.
CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion on Draft 2 before we take up the vote? We do
have Finance Director here, if you'd like to come up and give your presentation.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Diane Nakagawa and Managing
Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the members of the
Council.)
MS. NAKAGAWA: Good morning, members of Council. Diane Nakagawa,
Finance Director.
MS. SAKO: Deanna Sako, Managing Director.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Thank you for having us here today to present our Fiscal
Year 2025 amended budget. We're happy to have our Managing Director here
today, and she'll start us off with an introduction to some of the changes.
MS. SAKO: Good morning, everyone. Unfortunately, the Mayor couldn't be
here today. He's attending his daughter's graduation on the Mainland. As the
Mayor mentioned last month during the budget reviews, we continue to work for
a sustainable Hawaii Island where our keiki can thrive for generations to come.
So one of our priorities is definitely our roads, community centers, gyms, and
parks, and making sure they're adequate for everyone. We want our entire
community to continue to thrive.
We also need to keep updating our equipment and technology. We need to ensure
that our systems are secure and safe to keep our employees' data safe, but also to
keep the community's data safe. And in addition,we want to ensure that people
who work for the County continue to be happy and have the opportunity to grow.
So we continue to fund some of our training provisions and tuition reimbursement
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
programs. But we want them to be able to grow and provide the best possible
service to our community. So Diane's going to take us through the changes to the
budget and we'll keep going.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Diane Nakagawa and Managing
Director Deanna Sako provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members
of the Council. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy
of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office or navigate to the
Council's video archives from the County's homepage at
www.hawaiicounty.gov. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a
part of the record, see Comm. 755.21.)
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Managing Director and Director. At this time, the
motion on the floor is to amend Draft 1 of the budget with Draft 2. So any further
discussion of Draft 2 before we take up amendments?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, might I ask a couple of clarifying questions of the
leadership?
CHR. KIMBALL: Of course, Council Member.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Thank you, Managing Director, Finance
Director, for the presentation. Just a couple of questions. What sort of guiding
principles does the Administration use to determine what is a priority? Deanna, I
think my first budget cycle I offered the term "budget for outcomes"up so that
the public and County personnel are very clear on the kind of community we
want. And so we position our budget, our dollars,to kind of meet those goals.
And so I just wonder what the Administration has used to determine what
departments are going to be getting additional funding in this second budget draft.
MS. SAKO: So I think Diane kind of went over it on our focus. We know there's
been too many years of deferred maintenance, and we need to go back and take
care of those items. Some of those are very significant, the shape of some of our
buildings and facilities, that we need to go back and deal with. But a lot of that is
also seen in the debt service numbers in the budget where not only are we having
to do Hilo Wastewater Treatment Plant, but also many of our facilities, whether
it's fire stations, police stations, and others. So we continue to look at those
things. But, really, we want a healthy and safe community, but we also know
we've probably neglected some of like our cybersecurity and other systems as
well. And so we continue to try to improve all of our systems. So it's kind of the
focus of the things we went through earlier.
MS. NAKAGAWA: If I could just add. So, as part of our budgeting process, it is
really a collaborative process with the departments. It is those discussions with
our department team members on what do they need. So, as we go through that
process, they tell us what's the priorities in their supplementals and really explain
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
the needs. Now from there, as Deanna talked about, there's the overall priorities
of the County. But, really, it's a cooperative process with the departments and
really looking at their different divisions, talking about their needs, talking it
through in the budget process, that leads us to what is most important to them.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: A couple reflections on that. I remember Bill Takaba once
told me that he used to organize anonymous surveys of County employees just so
that folks have an opportunity to kind of share their experience and things that
they want to see changed within the budget. Perhaps that is something we can
explore.
I don't know if every County employee is provided the opportunity to weigh in at
this level that you're talking about. But also some people, they're shame to speak
up. And so we want to give them a chance to be able to just kind of share their
experiences and the kind of support that they might need. Because, so often, I
feel like the top-level managers are super busy with just managing overall
functions of the department that they may not know that, hey, a new refrigerator
or a chair might be really critical to just someone's workflow. So I want to offer
that.
And the other thing, Director Sako, when you mentioned setting the priorities,
how do we make sure that, going forward, we don't fall into this situation again?
Because, you mentioned the disrepair of our County facilities, like I think about
Aupuni Center, you cannot use the bathrooms there. I think about how Central
Fire Station isn't—kind of shameful that we still have folks there. So I just
wonder how are we going to make sure that we are protecting ourselves, our
assets going forward. Is there money in this budget to kind of create that cohesive
planning document?
MS. SAKO: I think—as we've said, there's a lot of infrastructure needs. So one
is that debt service was increased to try and address some of those things, as well
as adding the capital project manager type of overall person to kind of look at
everything county-wide and systemwide to help identify those highest priorities.
Basically, our highest priority is usually the Federal mandates that we have to do
by law. We can't really get around it. But followed by a close second is
definitely the health and safety of our employees. And there's many projects that
fall into that category, whether it's Central or other fire stations or even just the
sewer system at Aupuni Center so that our employees have restroom facilities to
be able to use during the day and not have to walk across the street.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Final question, unless you wanted to add
anything, Director.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Just wanted to add that to your first comment we are always
looking to improve. So, very much open to providing that voice for all
employees.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Temporary hazard pay. It's something that our County's
going to have to deal with. As part of that process, is it a one-time payout or can
it be negotiated to provide payments over time? Again, I'm just trying to think it
through. We have major challenges that we need to address as a County. But if
there is this obligation and we must pay, again I just want to make sure that it's
something that we can afford and maybe it's spaced out over time. Is that
possible?
MS. SAKO: I think a lot of things are possible, and we continue to work with
Corporation Counsel so that our attorneys know what's possible. So, like with
any settlement, the payment over time option is usually there. I mean, we've used
that in the past, and we continue to use that. Especially if any type of decision
was far greater than what we were anticipating, then definitely payments over
time would be factored into that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great. Thanks, Managing Director. Chair, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. To you, Council
Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Good morning, Chair. Thank you. Thank you, ladies, for being
here. Building off of my colleague's approach, I'm having a whole lot of
senioritis right now. And I can confidently say that from my first budget to this
one, we really are moving to those budgeting for outcomes or budgeting for
objectives. And so it's been a while but we're getting there. And I think the
needs assessment work that we've done with major departments is helping. You
know I was a huge champion for that capital manager position. I think it's a
critical link to make sure that we have the asset management, and then making
sure we're spending down effectively and efficiently. Absolutely in support of
that. And I don't know if we both bet on this number, guys, but I think we all
landed on 920 after the first iteration. So we're good at maybe looking into the
crystal ball.
My question really is on the but I'm not sure where it's covered and I've asked
this a number of times, if it's in the debt service or in the Budget Stabilization
Fund. Oftentimes, what comes before the Council is our contracts, right, and the
lease options over time. And I've asked that question for a while now, like what
is that I don't even know the right question. Is it like future debt service or
future obligations or future liabilities? Where is that number because we also
have an option to dial back rates. And I want to make sure, Deanna, that those
levers that we pull are not putting us at risk for some of the committed debt
service or liabilities as it relates to our leasing and contracts. Do we have that
number?
MS. NAKAGAWA: That is a discussion we've had in our previous budget
hearings, and it's one that we have spent a lot of time discussing internally as
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
well. Right now, those commitments are within the budget line items for the
leases of equipment and other purchases. So what we've been working on over
the last month with our budget team is getting out communication to the
department about future year tracking, and to be able to identify those
commitments in the budget moving on. Because, yes, they are critical
commitments that we make contractually that we need to account for in future
years. So to be able to identify them clearly and quickly is important. So we
have already made some steps with our budget team to work with the departments
to just more clearly identify them in the budget for everyone.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. And absolutely I am fine. Let's set that goal and meet it.
Does some of the software purchases you know we talked about electronic
timesheets moving over to this dashboard. It is their way to tailor some of our
new programs so that we can see that stuff kind of on a dashboard.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Yeah, these discussions are great in terms of timing with our
new ERP (Enterprise Resource Planning) to connect our new system because
these are the things that we can be asking of what the system can do for us to
create efficiency. As we move towards this system and invest so significantly in
such a change, we want all the things that we can have that makes us more
efficient. So our team—and that means all the departments across the County.
We have been meeting with the consultant about the development of this
software. So these are the types of questions that are coming up. So they're
spending hours a week having those discussions. Can't promise everything that
we have, but these discussions are very critical in asking the question at least:
What can it do? Because, what we want is to be able to have more of this
information at our fingertips, and a little more visible and reports a little easier to
run.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. Deanna?
MS. SAKO: All I was going to add to that is so like this year, we did add money
to Fire for their equipment, and I think we did put in the lease line item. But we
have talked to the Fire Chief so that maybe it's easier to do a one-time purchase or
something like that so that we're not committing future funds. So everything's
kind of on the table, and the options are there so that when times are good, if we
can afford to outright pay for it, we definitely want to do that and not defer cost to
the future. But also on some very large items, we do want to kind of just equalize
and stabilize our budget, and pay it out over time when we can. But we continue
to have challenges with getting equipment here in a timely manner. Not just the
shipping but just the manufacturing process continues to take a long time.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. The biggest learning curve for me was government
accounting is not like your checkbook. There are far too many sources of income,
restrictions on those resources, and that has been just a huge learning curve for
me. My final question is and, Deanna, you taught me like we go by the nickels
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when we're adjusting rates. And, I'm not kidding, I was a little surprised that this
adjustment in the affordable and the homeowners is just a revenue impact of
$2.6 million. How much is a nickel costing us? Round figures, Deanna.
MS. SAKO: Roughly 2.6 divided by 4. About 850,000.
MS. LEE LOY: Tell me that number again. About 800?
MS. SAKO: I think it's 850,000. I'll go back and use my calculator. If it's
different, we'll let you know.
MS. LEE LOY: But that's just in these two categories, right?
MS. SAKO: Correct. And one of the challenges from when we look at I guess
reducing rates is later, if the market turns, it's difficult to increase again. So we
just look at it conservatively as usual. You guys have worked with me at least for
a long time and know that we're going to try to be as conservative as possible to
protect our taxpayers.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. Thanks, Deanna. Thanks, Diane. I wrote down 365.
That's where I started eight years ago. And so just my time alone. And this is not
a reflection of this Administration because I had two administrations, but to start
at 365 and land at 920, that's 555 million since I've sat in this chair. And I'm
really looking forward to moving this battleship and budgeting for outcomes and
making the investments in the right place. So I do really appreciate that education
and training. I think it was really critical when we tailored it out over time. And
then basically technology grew so quickly that so many of our staffers were really
thirsty for that education and training.
My final question, the 28 positions—I'll ask the 27 positions because I like one of
them what is that costing in the overall increase?
MS. NAKAGAWA: So the 28 positions added in the May proposed budget is
roughly $1.9 million.
MS. LEE LOY: Great. Thanks, ladies. Such an honor. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Your last budget.
What an exciting—all right, before I go on, I just want to make note. We have a
number of representatives from departments/agencies here in the room, but
Finance Director assured me that the rest of the directors are monitoring. So if
there are questions, this is the appropriate time to call the departments forward.
And if they're not in the room, we can get them here either physically quickly or
on Zoom. So thank you.
MS. SAKO: I was going to say I think several are logged into Zoom.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
CHR. KIMBALL: Yeah, great. Thank you. So, over to Council
Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair, and thank you so much for being here,
Managing Director and Director of Finance. My questions, because I am still on
that steep learning curve, have to do with the Fund Balance, Budget Stabilization,
and the real property tax proposed reductions and how those things all fit into our
budget together. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, with the proposed
changes in this budget and what we are proposing, we are looking at a
10.5 percent, is this correct, Fund Balance and Budget Stabilization?
MS. NAKAGAWA: That is correct.
MS. KAGIWADA: Total? Even though recommended is 15 percent or two
months, which is over 16 percent?
MS. NAKAGAWA: That is correct.
MS. KAGIWADA: Knowing that we have this hazard pay potentially coming.
MS. NAKAGAWA: That is correct.
MS. KAGIWADA: And at the same time, the Administration is proposing tax
reductions for homeowners and affordable rentals,which I think is great, but not
proposing to make that up anywhere in our tax. Is that correct?
MS. NAKAGAWA: Yes, that's correct.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. I feel like that's a little bit throwing this on us to
balance the budget and get it into the right shape it needs to get into in a way,
because if you're telling us that we should have a Fund Balance higher than what
is proposed here, especially given the unknowns of the hazard pay issue, I have
some real concerns at where we're at. Do you have any concerns at where we're
at, either of you?
MS. SAKO: Definitely, over the years we've seen a wide range where I believe
when that provision was put in, we may not even have been at 5 percent yet. So,
definitely that's why it was a range of 5-15. But we definitely want to strive for
the 15-16, like you're saying, and so it's kind of incremental. I think we would
feel a lot more comfortable if we didn't have the temporary hazard pay looming
out there. That kind of unknown liability is a little bit challenging for us.
Otherwise, we would feel like, okay, we're probably going to generate some Fund
Balance this year and feel a little bit better about it. But there's a lot of unknowns
out there, but we're trying to kind of do what we believe is best for all options.
But, ultimately, it's up to the County Council to set the rates.
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MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. But if this hazard pay did come through and we had to
pay the lump sum and it's somewhere near the amount you're estimating, we
would be down to serious trouble given this budget.
MS. SAKO: Yes. It would definitely depend on what Fund Balance is generated
during this fiscal year, Fiscal Year '24, to lead us into Fiscal Year '25, yes.
MS. KAGIWADA: Finance Director, do you have any input on that? Are you
feeling comfortable with the way it is set up now, or are you looking to us to
make some adjustments here?
MS. NAKAGAWA: So I think,just to clarify one of the statements you made,
the budget that we put forth is balanced, and that does take into account the
proposed rate reduction. So just wanted to make that—
MS.
hatMS. KAGIWADA: Sorry. Yeah, it is balanced but the Fund Balance is lower
than maybe it has been in past years and where it is recommended to be.
MS. NAKAGAWA: So our reserve balance, as Deanna mentioned, over the
years has been lower. That is not what we strive for. We continue to strive to be
higher and of the 15 percent, but understanding that takes many years to get there.
So if you're asking about a comfort level, from a financial standpoint we are
always conservative and we would like to have that reserve be at the 15 percent.
However, we do understand there are priorities and conversations that we should
have to look at priority needs.
It's not black and white. It is a discussion. It is policy decisions on critical needs
that we have to take care of and balancing that reserve. So, yes, very protective of
the reserve. Would love to see it higher. But again, it's a conversation about
what's important. And I think that's what we're open to as we continue to move
forward in this budget process.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. One more question about this. This
current proposed budget, where does that put us in relation to our bond rating as
far as are we in a good position to be at the top of the bond rating with this? Or
would we be a little lower probably?
MS. SAKO: I think the bond rating agencies do realize our Fund Balance has
been growing over the years. It will definitely depend on what the FY24 (Fiscal
Year 2024) impact on Fund Balance is. So it's not a complete known yet, but I
believe we would hopefully be able to maintain our current bond ratings with this.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. And what is our current bond rating, may I ask?
MS. SAKO: Double A-plus.
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MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. All right, I think those are my main questions. Thank
you, Chair, I yield. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I want to take the time to thank you and your staff
because I can imagine what it must be like from the first and the second draft.
I'm looking at all the moving parts of trying to figure out what the Legislature
did, and matching funds being asked for or offered to us and how that would have
played into this.
But I was very specifically happy to see that you're increasing in the IT
(Information Technology) infrastructure. And I just need—I'll probably be a
broken record on this, but my experience, during the workday, I am unable to get
into my Webmail. It blocks me. At night, on weekends, early in the morning
before eight, or after five, not a problem. I can get into the
webmai1.hawaiicounty.gov. My concern is during the workday because all of our
staff and everybody is on the computer, and the public and everybody is trying to
get on the computer, that we just don't have that capacity and that's why I get
blocked. And it's very frustrating for me not to be able to get into my Webmail.
MS. SAKO: I think that's true for many employees. So we are currently
enhancing the switches and the connectivity of a lot of the physical parts of it.
But in addition, our new IT manager that works together with Rob is mapping and
looking at our entire system so that we can eliminate redundancies and see where
we need to improve. So I think part of this money that got added to IT should
hopefully help with that in the next 12 months or so. I can't promise tomorrow
but I know they are working on that. They doI mean, they get the same
complaints that you have, and so, yeah. I'm not sure if Rob's online, but I did
want to share that they're definitely working on a lot of those issues. So thank
you.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. And the other thing is just telephones. There's been a
lot of issues with even telephones not working properly. I look at the telephones
that are in my office, and just the phones that we're using are many, many years
old. And I don't—so I'm sure the updating of even our telephones and that whole
system. We're just maybe at the end of life on some of the assets that we have,
and I just want to point out even the phone ones seems to be a problem, and I'm
experiencing that too.
MS. SAKO: So several departments have replaced their phones like as in
handsets. And so, if that's an issue, we can definitely work with the County Clerk
and ensure that Council phones are upgraded as well.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Thank you very much. And, lastly, public safety. So
you increased public safety. Can you be a little more specific on where that's
going to go?
MS. NAKAGAWA: So the increase in public safety that we discussed on one of
our slides is the 12 positions added in the Police Department. The 12 positions
are outlined in the budget book, and I think Police Chief is also monitoring and
happy to talk about the specific responsibilities. These positions were their
highest priority positions in the different areas. So if you'd like more
information, I'm sure we could get a bit more from the Police Chief about that.
MS. EVANS: No, that's fine. I just really appreciate the comments from
Member Lee Loy about budgeting for outcomes and kind of that future tracking
of our liabilities. Since I've been here, we've talked about the change orders
several times, but it always surprises me that change orders is more about
extending that lease. It's like we're changing it because we renewed. And so it
really does have an impact. I mean, when we see the change orders every month,
you keep adding more expenditures, but it's being—it's something you've already
obligated for maybe five years or four years or whatever.
So, when we go into the obligation on these long-term leases, it would be
interesting to see how that will—how we can see it coming, you know, how it
plays out because it is an impact. And the other thing is my experience with
extensions is sometimes it's tied to some index. And so it's kind of a little bit of
an unknown when you're even agreeing to it, right, because it's tied to some
index that may go up 3 percent or 4 percent on you. So, appreciate your efforts.
It's hard but it really does have an impact.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Just wanted to mention, Council Member Evans, really
appreciate the discussions we've had about change orders. And as we look to
continually improve, I think one of the things we've talked about is providing
more clarity and explanation in some of these. So, as you mentioned on the
change orders, the percent increase could be misleading because it really is
service for the next year, right. So it's not an increase in their contract. It is the
contracted rate for the next year. So we look to improve in making things more
clear. So just appreciate those comments.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Thank you, Chair, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Over to Council
Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. Thanks, Chair. I just wanted to ask, have we ever,
to your knowledge, had a consultant group come in and look at sort of a really
global, you know, like maybe McKenzie, look at our economy, look at our tax
structure, look at our different departments? But actually more so I think like the
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economy as a whole and how we set our taxes such that it would be like an
objective, not someone that isn't tied to how we've done things always. I was just
wondering have we ever done that, or any other county in our State that you've
heard of done something like that?
MS. SAKO: The closest we've come is we've had IAAO, which is International
Association of Assessing Organizations, or something like that, come in to look
through the County Auditor's office. So they did provide some feedback and
whatnot. But not saying we couldn't try to look to see who's kind of available or
what type of things are out there. Over the years, definitely the tax rates have
changed according to I think what the economy was doing and what industries
and whatnot might have been impacted, but that's not to say we couldn't try and
see. I'm not sure what something like that would cost, but we can look into it for
the future.
MS. GALIMBA: Yes. You might be open to do something like that and then
MS. NAKAGAWA: Yeah, I'm definitely open to look at that. I think some of
the areas in which you discussed is looked at in different ways. So during our
audit process, so the County's process. Our financials are reviewed and we get a
lot of that feedback through the audit process, and also when we're going through
bond rating. So, when the agencies review our financials, our policies, our
reserves, all of these things are taken into consideration for our bond rating. And
some of their guidance and comments on where we're at as a County relative to
the State, to the nation, is some of the feedback that we use to determine what
changes maybe need to be made. But that is a couple of the different places
where we get that information as well. But always open.
MS. GALIMBA: Yeah, I can see that with the bond rating. Of course, they are
looking at it from like a bond rating perspective, which is a certain perspective for
sure. So, yeah. Okay, awesome. Maybe we could work on that. Yeah. Thanks,
I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: First of all, I want to mahalo Finance. A lot of the specific line
items that I had questions on in the special finance hearings are either gone or are
retitled to reflect what the spending really is and has been about. We did have
some meetings offline with R&D (Research and Development) regarding grant
management and travel. That is one of the areas I still have concern with;
573,000 for grant management that isI think could benefit the County in a
wider arena. We're seeing it only in R&D.
And then the travel, I do want to note and make specific things. I have concern,
as you know, with travel across all of our departments to a certain extent, but
especially with R&D and Liquor and will be introducing resolutions and working
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
with the Auditor to audit the travel that's been going on to ensure that the travel is
in fact benefiting our residents and that we're getting something out of this travel
on the County dollar.
As Council Member Lee Loy pointed out, our budget over the last eight years has
grown over $500 million, a $32 million increase just from March. And while I
maybe will take a different approach on the rates from what Council
Member Kagiwada might have been alluding to, I don't see this budget as a lean
budget by any means. And if we do get to the point, hopefully not, where hazard
pay or some of these liabilities come out to more than we're expecting, nothing
prevents the Administration from coming to make cuts in the budget in the middle
of the year for all of our departments to make sure that we're going to continue
providing the services that we need to.
So, while I appreciate the reduction of the rates, I think they are manini, and I'll
be introducing a resolution. I think maybe some of the other Council Members
might be looking at real property tax rates as well, but I think we need to do more
for our residents in terms of the real property tax rates, specifically in the two
classes that you folks have already attempted to provide some relief. I just think
it's not enough relief, considering how much our budget has grown in recent
years.
And with that, I don't have any amendments that I'm going to be introducing
today. But, as we go into our real property tax discussions, there are still some
areas, like I said, that I think there's a lot of fluff in this budget. And in the end, I
think our community expects more when they're seeing such a huge budget. If
they're not seeing it, it's a problem. Circle back, though, I think this is one of the
more cleaned up budgets we've seen. So I want to mahalo Director Nakagawa,
Deputy Brown, Managing Director Sako for working to really get things more in
line and representative on paper of what is actually being spent on across our
departments. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba. Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Mahalo to the
departments. You've given me a lot of time over the past few weeks. And seeing
this come forward and how much change it was, I really appreciate the time that
you're able to provide me given that you were busy. Just a few questions for you
this morning. Looking over our revenue sources that's in line with what you've
submitted, the expenditures, two questions: The Highways Fund, we're showing
a 25 percent increase from (Fiscal Year) 23-24. And these are projected, correct,
projected expenditures; 24.9 percent increase over this current fiscal year. What
are the expenses that are happening within that department, or what are we hoping
to see with the increased expenditures?
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. SAKO: So,just to clarify, you're comparing the FY23 actual to the FY25
estimate. Is that correct?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Correct.
MS. SAKO: Okay. Some of the increases, we do have some accounts that are
there just for emergencies. I don't know why I'm not seeing it at the moment. So
we do have those, like public safety, disaster, and emergency, like 575,000, which
many years does not get spent. But in a weekend like what we just had with all
the rain and whatnot, those would be a time that if they needed to utilize those
funds, they could to help clear roadways and make it safe and passable for our
community. Some of the others are the ever-increasing prices, I believe, of doing
paving and materials and supplies, as well as equipment. But I believe FY23 was
the year they were not able to get all the equipment as budgeted because the rates
were so high. So, yeah. We would have to go back and analyze a little bit
further. I didn't bring that stuff down with me. Sorry.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I'm not complaining. We have a lot
of improvements to do within our roadway systems and our highway systems.
But just seeing if we're hitting the outcomes we're shooting for with that
increased expenses, which is pretty
MS. NAKAGAWA: Yeah, it's some employee benefit cost. So just to clarify,
Council Member, your question is, with the increase, what are the priorities?
Okay. We can certainly get back with you on that as we look at it in detail, but I
also know that our Public Works Director is also on Zoom and can chime in as
well.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. To Mr. Pause if you're online.
MS. SAKO: And while he's coming online, I would say that I believe the last
couple years were the first where they were really able to increase the number of
miles of roads paved as well. So we'd just like to acknowledge them for that as
well.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Yeah, I looked over your
communication you submitted. There's a number of departments in your brief
descriptions of what happened. Communication 755.10. And Public Works,
there is some information provided there as well, but not to the tune of
$18 million. So I just wanted to get a feel for
MS. SAKO: Yeah, I think the communication really compares March to May,
yeah. But we can go and analyze a little bit more thoroughly.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And he is online? Okay, I'll move
on to some other questions as I wait for him. Mahalo for going through the
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
Research and Development fund and reorganizing. That was very helpful. I like
where we sit now on that. It's cleaner and there's a lot of movement and clarity
provided.
The management section, the miscellaneous contract services account, replacing
funding for sustainability activities with funds to conduct investigations. What's
the intentionality there?
MS. SAKO: Oh, sorry. Investigations. Sorry, I was texting Steve to come to the
meeting. I wasn't listening. My bad. So what I've learned in the few months
I've been in the Mayor's office is what the Managing Director really does is
investigate internal complaints and public complaints. And so that's what it really
is. So there you go. Yes. So we are doing many investigations. We do not do
them all in-house. Part of that is really to give our employees and the public fair
treatment and to ensure it's an independent third parry. So that is to hire
investigators as needed. Council Member Inaba was correct: We weren't
labeling everything correctly in our budget. So we did go back and look at that,
and it really is investigations. So that's what's behind that.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you. I sent out an email that I
was going to—in our first hearing for the budget, I was remiss in following up
with our Planning Director on what we're shooting for in the future and what
we're doing now and how that lays out for us, and more of a CIP (Capital
Improvement Project) question. His answer was interesting and compelling, but
that brings me back to where we stand right now with this budget. As we look at
what we need, what we're doing now, what we're shooting for five, ten years
from now, his answer was vague as far as who is in charge of that planning
mechanism. And I think I've had these conversations with Deanna in the past:
What is Finance doing to make sure these things are happening? What are we
doing? And the answer was always "The Planning Director is the one to guide us
through this General Plan,planning, development"
MS. SAKO: Per the Charter.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, per the Charter. So, in seeing all
these different answers and in talking to Finance,what I noticed is, and that I like,
is this new position for a CIP coordinator. Explain to me what that will do.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Sure. Council Member, this position, we've had,just in our
previous budget hearing alone, a lot of discussion about the CIP. And wanting
more clarity on projects that are funded, the status of projects, where we're at,
there's a lot of talk about dashboards, really providing that transparency with
progress, with our outcomes as we continue to talk about those today. So the
intention behind this position is to support Planning with the CIP, but actually a
position in Finance. And this position is outside of those departments that are
leading some of these CIP efforts, like Public Works, DEM (Department of
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
Environmental Management), and working with them to get a comprehensive
view of a project status. So, when these questions come up, we have other
resources to be able to provide this information, that we just don't have those
today. So, really excited.
This is a position that other counties have as well, and one that I think is very
much needed,just evident by all the discussions we've had and the questions that
come out of—our discussion about CIP and projects and status and where we're
at. So this is really to take a look at and work with the department on where we
are at, and get that view for all of us. So,just very excited about having these
resources.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I like that. I like theI mean, the definition
as being a coordinator because that helps solidify that we actually have someone
who is making sure that all the different organizations, entities, planning, and not
just Planning Department but future planning for our County is happening in a
coordinated measure with the Finance Department. Because there's so many
different moving pieces to what projects are we doing, what are we shooting for
as a County, what are administrative priorities, what are needed priorities in the
community. And without that coordinating piece, it's hard to nail that answer.
That's something I've struggled with for the past five years, and it's figuring out
what we're doing and where we're going. It's like asking who's the captain and
everyone keeps pointing to the left, but no one ends up being the captain. That's
how I felt up till today. So I'm glad to see this position included in the budget.
Thank you.
I really do appreciate this small business technical assistance portion. I think this
has a tremendous effect on our community, and hopefully this stays in our budget
from here on out. Thank you for that. How much fundsoh, this is back to
Steve. Is Steve online yet?
MS. SAKO: So Steve couldn't make it. He's on a call with the Department of
Transportation. However, their Business Manager is here if you have any
questions.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Good morning. Good to see you
again. Maybe you can help me. I'll try to keep them light instead of more
philosophical.
(Note: At this time, Business Manager Kelsey Kalua-Lewis, Public
Works Department, came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Good morning. Sorry, Director Pause is on another call
with Department of Transportation. So I'm available to answer any questions you
may have. Kelsey Kalua-Lewis, Public Works Business Manager.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Just in your budget, I'm looking
at funds being added to the equipment account. I'm looking for how much.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: In this year's budget?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yeah, so we added a bunch of equipment, especially in
the highway maintenance section. We are looking at getting some leases started
on some much-needed equipment that we need to continue to do paving, road
resurfacing, to kind of keep up with the trying to hit our goal because that is one
of Public Works goals from the start with Director Pause.
I know that Traffic also put in some new equipment to kind of help with their
work. They've been having a lot of emergency repairs that we've seen. I think
last time it was brought up with the increase in special duties. So just equipment
to help with that because there is east side and west side and different response
times. A lot of times the Hilo crews will have to go out to the west side.
In Engineering, I didn't see much equipment increases on their side. They didn't
really have any big ones.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Do you have a figure?
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: For the equipment for—in total or in ?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: In total.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: No. Sorry, I am unprepared. I don't have that right now.
I kind of just ran over here. But I can get back to you on that.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, let me know.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yeah.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'll yield for now and give you a few
minutes to figure it out.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Okay. Yeah.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Okay, thank you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. I yield.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. I just had one question. Diane, we talk about that
future liability or debt service. What is the right terminology when we're asking
that question? Because I see the curiosity from my colleagues, but what's the
right term for that? Financial term, I guess.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Are you talking about our debt service or ?
MS. LEE LOY: For those contract pieces as far as
MS. NAKAGAWA: Oh, okay.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I'm sorry.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Huh. Umm.
MS. LEE LOY: I'm glad you're struggling because I am too.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Oh, because there's different categories where we have our
lease obligations in some cases. We have our contractual multi-year obligations.
MS. LEE LOY: Right. So is that future debt obligations?
MS. NAKAGAWA: It's future commitments.
MS. LEE LOY: Future, okay.
MS. NAKAGAWA: If there's something more technical, we can get back to you.
But they are. There are lease commitments in those line items. They are our
contractual obligations.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I guess just for us and the vernacular, I guess, when we
start talking about that thing, I guess I was hoping that as soon as I said "future
obligations,"we would know what we were talking about.
MS. NAKAGAWA: So one of the things I think we'll—as I mentioned earlier,
we will work on making it very clear what the obligations are in those different
areas.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay, great. Thanks. That was my only question. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Back to you, Council
Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Diane, how are you
going to handle private contributions in the future? Because, we have those
accounts, if I remember correctly, to kind of place hold for money coming in.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Yeah. So, when we took a look at those accounts, those
were set up with the intent of reoccurring donations. Since it's no longer the case
as what we've seen in doing the research for the last couple of years, if they come
through, we'll come to Council to accept the donation and we'll go ahead and get
the appropriation for it. If we see some consistency in some of the departments or
it's reoccurring, we can adjust as we need, but we just wanted to be really clear as
there were some questions, and appreciate that, what's no longer occurring in
some of those areas.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. So we'll see those as
resolutions in the future.
MS. NAKAGAWA: If there's a donation, we will come forward.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Lastly—smart. I don't mean
"lastly." I always say that. I'm trying to stop saying that. Okay. So
Environmental Management goes last in our special budget hearings, and this
always gets me because it's such a big department and such a tremendous need
expressed by everyone. And we're all tired, it's the end of the day, and we're
trying to go through a massive budget that's three entire sections of our budget
itself. So how are we meeting this is for DEM but also for Finance. How are
we budgeting to see the changes we want to see? If that's for DEM, that's fine,
but in your eyes or their eyes, that's what(inaudible).
MS. NAKAGAWA: Sure. And if DEM is on, they can please feel free to chime
in to your question. But to your point about the timing, Council Chair Kimball
and I have also had discussions about improvement to the budget review process.
It's a matter of scheduling. They were at the end. And, yes, it—
MR.
tMR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's always been that way. In my time,
always. They're the last one on the last day.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Right. So in some of the discussions that we have had was
how do we improve that process to make sure that those significant and critical
discussions have the time and attention it deserves. So, welcome any suggestions
you may have. We have talked about splitting the time up, adding a day,
whatever we need to do, but do recognize that by the third day, at the end, it is a
long several days of the budget. But I think there are some changes that can be
made, and we are definitely open and want to ensure that everyone is comfortable
and each department has the attention that it deserves during this process.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that. Do we haveDirector,
are you there? Okay, that makes two. Okay. I'll keep one question for you then
Ms., I mean Mass Transit. I see Mass Transit in the room. This is a neat one. So
Mass Transit's provision for training account updated to reflect the change from
the 334 Miscellaneous Charges to 341. But also Miscellaneous Contract Services,
the line item indicates funds for additional solar charging capacity infrastructure
for the electrification of fleet. That's neat. What are we looking at there?
MS. NAKAGAWA: Mass Transit will be right up.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
(Note: At this time, Assistant Mass Transit Administrator Zachary
Bergum came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. BERGUM: Good morning, Council Members. Zach Bergum, Assistant
Mass Transit Administrator.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
MR. BERGUM: So your reference to the, is it the $500,000 for SP placeholder?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yup.
MR. BERGUM: So, yeah, we were looking at coordinating with SP
(Sustainability Partners) as we go into the solar power and charging. But it's not
also just including SP. It's going to be involving CT as well. I don't want to get
in front of or put the cart in front of the horse. We're actually still in negotiations
with those meetings now.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just for everybody: SP, CT, we likeI
mean, we get the acronyms but for the public.
MR. BERGUM: Sustainability Partners.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And CT?
MR. BERGUM: CTE? Hold on real quick. I've got that acronym here. Center
of Transportation and Environment.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay, so 500,000, correct?
MR. BERGUM: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good job. Okay, thank you, sir.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. BERGUM: Sir, thank you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ramzi, I saw you briefly. You there?
(Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Ramzi Mansour
came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. MANSOUR: Yes, I'm here.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: All right. Thanks for joining us. So there's
a number of changes in the budget for your department specifically and across
some of your different funds. Talk to us about the recycling that Managing
Director Sako mentioned earlier, and then as well,just across your budget, what
these new funds will do to enhance our infrastructure and take care some of the
public safety problems that we are being presented with.
MR. MANSOUR: Is that in particular solid waste or in totality with the
wastewater and solid waste?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Unfortunately, it's across all of them. This
is a good thing, but I'm just trying to get a feel for what you folks are looking to
do in the upcoming years.
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah. As you know, we entered into a county-wide AOC
(Administrative Order on Consent) with the EPA (Environmental Protection
Agency) based on commitments for certain projects, critical projects, that we need
to deliver by 2035. So we had created a time line and a schedule with milestones
to get these projects accomplished within time.
The Hilo Wastewater Treatment Plant is being advertised as we speak. We're
going to have the pre-bid meeting on May 29h to go over the project with the
contractors that's going to be potentially bidding on the project, and that's going
to be a major project. Part of it is, as you all know, safety issues pertaining to that
facility and other—so that's one of our top priority projects that is moving
forward as planned.
Other projects as well are in the process of being designed. So, like I said, we
have a very detailed time line/schedule on Microsoft projects that allows us to be
able to monitor every milestone pertaining to these projects within the AOC.
As far as recycling, recycling is a big challenge. And we are working on the solid
waste operational analysis on the current operation. We should have the draft
report by the end of this year. Currently, we're around $7 million to $8 million
probably just between (inaudible) and Business Services to do the boxes, the
HI-5, and the green waste. Just these few items has taken quite a bit from the
budget itself. But, as you all know, we need to drive better recycling and
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
diversion from the landfill. Landfill space is very expensive. We've only got
20-plus years remaining life, and we need to be able to preserve that lifespan on
the current landfill by aiming to divert as much as we can and recycle as much as
we can.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: When you speak to "recycling,"what are
you speaking to? Are we talking about HI-5? You're talking about glass?
You're talking about metal?
MR. MANSOUR: Well, everything potentially that has a reuse. You've got—the
C and D is our most challenging item that we need to find a market for. It takes a
lot of space within the landfill. Unfortunately, we don't have a program to handle
the inert and construction demolition material. And we've been working with
some entities in trying to invite interest. The State has a task force that my staff
and I have been attending on a monthly basis, trying to, from a statewide, find a
better management for recyclables. Mattresses are big issues to our landfills as
well. Carpets. These bulky items take a lot of space within the landfill.
But the current recycling programs that we have is cardboards, HI-5, and green
waste and tires. So we are limited to what we could recycle currently. And as
you're aware with the green waste, we're still, on the west side, we have a surplus
of the mulch. Unfortunately, with the CRB (Coconut Rhinoceros Beetle) issue
also as well, we need to be very careful of handling that material to prevent any
spreading.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you.
MR. MANSOUR: But the programs that we have, like I said, the big bulky
material is the one that's taking the space. And, unfortunately, no market here
locally on Hawaii.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Director, I'm going to go ahead and
yield for the time being, and I might have some more questions for you. Thank
you.
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Sorry to interrupt. We have to do a quick tech(technical)
reset here, so we're going to take a break until 10:30 and then we'll come back.
We're in recess until 10:30. Thank you.
Recess: At 10:20 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 10:35 a.m.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
CHR. KIMBALL: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, you have the floor, and I'm not
sure if we still have Ramzi on Zoom. Director Mansour, are you still there?
MR. MANSOUR: Yes, I'm still here.
CHR. KIMBALL: Oh, fantastic! Thank you for your patience. I apologize.
MR. MANSOUR: Oh, no problem.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Mansour, I think you answered my
questions for your portion of the budget. Thank you. If needed I'll follow up
with some of the other folks in the department. Mo? Mr. Messina, Director, can
you come up? I just have a couple questions for you.
(Note: At this time, Parks and Recreation Director Maurice Messina came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. MESSINA: Good morning. Parks Director Maurice Messina.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good morning. Thank you for being here. I
saw some good additions to your budget for this second round. What are you
going to achieve this coming fiscal year with these funds?
MR. MESSINA: I'm going to fix our parks. Fix our parks, make some money.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. What does that mean?
MR. MESSINA: With the increase in our maintenance and repair budget, we
were able to—so here's an example. At the end of this fiscal year, we were able
to look at all of our gyms and facilities, especially the ones that are leaking, which
almost every gym on our island right now is leaking with the exception of the
Ka`u Gym. So we already started the design process to prepare all of those to
repair some of our community centers like the Pepe`ekeo Community Center, the
Pepe`ekeo Gym, Kona Gym.
And then we also have about five or six clerk positions to finally start moving
towards an admission fee at the zoo, which we plan on starting around January 1st
is our goal. And we're looking at a potential revenue for the first six months of a
little around $700,000 for that. Very minimum: $1 for on-island keikis, $4 for
on-island adults. And then it raises dramatically for off-island residents.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That's good. So things that you were
needing to do that we've always struggled to find funding for for your
department, we actually got some extra in this second round of the budget.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. MESSINA: Right. For instance, this last fiscal year, we were able to start
with our termite control. In the fiscal year prior, we could tent one building a
year. Just this fiscal year alone, we tented every building at Ho`olulu Complex,
including $68,000 for the Civic. So, as we continue going through that, we're
going to be resurfacing a lot of tennis courts and pickleball courts. We met with
some community members this morning about that.
So now, with this extra budget, we don't have to just nickel and dime our way
through it. We can actually get one contractor to do all of our projects at one
time. Do them the right way. Fix our swimming pools the right way, instead of
just band-aiding everything that's been done for decades because of deferred
maintenance. Actually start fixing our facilities. In the future, if it does come to
where new facilities are needed, we can actually start moving that way.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I saw a number in the CIP budget.
So this is more of just what you're expecting in (Fiscal Year) 24-25, and it's good
to see you getting some extra funding too.
MR. MESSINA: Yes. We appreciate it.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay. Unless Mr.well,
Ms. Kalua-Lewis, I got the number so I'm good on that. And is Mr. Pause still in
the meeting?
MS. KALUA-LEWIS (from the audience): (Inaudible.)
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Chair, I'm going to yield for now.
Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, thank you. I believe, Council Member Kagiwada,
you had a question.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah. Thank you, Chair. Just a quick question on the CIP
projects. Director Nakagawa, we had a conversation about this, and I don't think
we ever followed up. The
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kagiwada,just depending, this should relate
to the operating budget. We are going to do the CIP later.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. I heard some people talking about CIP stuff.
CHR. KIMBALL: That was about the CIP position, which is in the operating
budget, which is why I allowed it.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, I can wait. Thank you. Okay, thanks. I'll wait.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
CHR. KIMBALL: All right. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Yeah,just one question. Recently,we had that EPA consent
decree, and we hired a special counsel. And then we also recently extended
another contract for Corporation Counsel to have help, right. So how is that
reflected? It seems to me we're really having an increase in expenditures,
sometimes unknown because we settle. It tends to be we're always in litigation.
We're always settling. So where would that I just want to make sure that, given
what we just were looking at in the last couple of months, how would that have
impacted from the last draft and this draft?
MS. NAKAGAWA: Sure. Council Member Evans, I don't believe there are any
changes in those specific items, and I'd be happy to go through with you the line
items. There are a couple different areas that you're speaking of. The special
counsel, if you're speaking of the one that recently went through Council, that
was for Workers' Comp. (Compensation). So that would be in a different line
item. There is another line item, a settlement in claims, as well as additional
funding in Corporation Counsel's budget for outside counsel. And Corporation
Counsel Strance is here, and if you have other questions related to the need of
those types of additional funding, she'd be happy to answer that.
MS. EVANS: So you don't see an increase inI was just looking at
expenditures, the percentage in general government. I'm assuming they land in
general government. You didn't see any ?
MS. NAKAGAWA: We didn't add any increase in the last amended budget. So,
based on the information that was provided by the department and looking at
those specific types of claims and items, that was the projected need from the
department.
MS. EVANS: Okay. All right, thank you.
MS. NAKAGAWA: You're welcome.
MS. EVANS: I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Anyone else before we
proceed to amendments? Okay, great. Oh, Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, Ms. Director, this is my last question
for you. As we look at property tax rate adjustments and understanding
everything we've talked about today and some of the bigger issues coming
forward—hazard pay and different things, adjustments to our budget—where do
you see your bottom line as far as decreasing revenue in our property tax stream
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
with our property tax rates? Where are you going to hit a bottom? It's going to
come forward; I'm hearing it already. We have adjustments in front of us. But
I'm just trying to feel out for you where's your comfortable area.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Yeah. So I think we started this discussion a little earlier
when we talked about the Fund Balance and our reserve account and what the
County is comfortable with. The budget that we have set forth in this amended
budget has taken into account all of the different priorities. And, really, that is our
Administration, the Mayor's budget. In looking at the reductions in terms of what
we can do for the community, looking at the different additions to some of the
budget line items that are critical, this amended budget reflects those discussions,
those priorities that we've set forward. Just to reiterate, it's the same conversation
earlier about comfort level on where we are with our Fund Balance. So I think
those are conversations that we'll continue to have throughout the day, but the
budget we set forth is at a comfort level that we see we can continue to move
forward with.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So this is the comfortable area. Okay, thank
you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. All right, seeing no further
discussion we will move forward with amendments. Mr. Clerk, can you please
read in the first Bill 136, Draft 2, amendment in Communication
MR. HENRICKS: Actually, Chair, we need to take the vote to amend with the
Mayor's Draft 2 first before we can layer on additional amendments because the
amendments are based upon the Draf 2.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you for that reminder. All those in favor of amending
Bill 136 with the communication contained in 755.10 to Draft 2, please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 136 with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 755.10 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, and Chair Kimball —8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Villegas — 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: We'll now return to the main motion and the amendments.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kagiwada moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2,with the
contents of Comm. 755.11. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. So, had several conversationsI see we
have our Administrator Mr. Runnells here, if you want to come up both with our
Animal Control Administrator, our Managing Director, and our Finance Director
about this item. Basically, we were relying on our Animal Control Agency to do
an awful big lift here, and they are doing an awful lot, specifically there's a lot of
stuff that they have to do that nobody else can do. And this proposed budget item
is to help them with partnering with a community organization who can help with
some of the stuff that they might be able to do. So it's not going after dangerous
dogs or things like that, but it could be more about forward facing and interacting
with the public, helping to gather data that's really needed in order for us to be
effective and efficient with our resources.
And also, I think it's really important. An important thing we can do here is by
giving a small amount of money to, I mean it's not super small, but amount of
money to a community organization. They might be able to leverage getting more
funding. Apparently, there's national funding out there that can be leveraged if
they're shown to be working in coordination with our County. So I will turn it
over to our Administrator just to say a little bit about maybe what you envision
this money could be used for.
(Note: At this time, Animal Control and Protection Administrator
Matthew Runnells came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. RUNNELLS: Matt Runnells, Administrator for Animal Control. I
envision—well, we currently work with a lot of our partner organizations
throughout the County. Additional monies with those organizations to try to
organize better spay and neuter and information exchange would definitely be
within that realm as far as possibly building outreach websites to organize those
spay and neuters in a little bit better manner. Because, a lot of times those
individual organizations are given the money to do the spay and neuters, but not
necessarily to organize the contacts between the people that are coming in for
those spay and neuters.
So sometimes it's considered a slight cluster to try to get those times and locations
organized a little bit better. And so, with us, we can't necessarily organize those
in a manner that gets everybody to work together. So I could see this money
working towards that.
MS. KAGIWADA: Great. Yeah. So just really helping with some of the public-
facing stuff that people are asking for and having some issues with right now to
just kind of jump-start the work that the agency is trying to do and going towards
already. So that was the thought here. Yeah. Happy to hear discussion or input
from my colleagues. Thank you.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Council
Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Chair. In support. I also recognize there's another
amendment, and I'm just wondering how these funds interact with a future kind of
adjustment that we have coming up. Director, your thoughts? I mean, this is kind
of in one line item.
MR. RUNNELLS: Mhm. I mean, I do see them kind of working in conjunction,
but different subject matter. We plan on doing a lot more outreach for education
purposes, along with our veterinary staff that we're bringing on board to do—our
push in one direction is for microchipping and for registering within the County.
It is a huge impact on our workload in that direction, and then also in the direction
of spay and neuters and outreach on that end. And so they do kind of intermingle,
but they also have very specific subject matters, too, for the public.
MS. LEE LOY: Director, 150 isI mean, we're all looking at a huge Fund
Balance. Is that enough for all of this work over the course of 12 months?
MR. RUNNELLS: It depends on how we utilize it. I honestly feel like it's not a
matter of whether it's a small amount, but it is as much as how we use it to have
those outreach clinics because it's a matter of us getting out there into the public.
Because, education is probably the biggest thing that we are lacking in right now
for the public when it comes to pets and spay and neuters and microchipping and
stuff. And so that isn't necessarily a huge cost, but it's a matter of putting forth
that effort for us to get out there.
MS. LEE LOY: Great. Director, in support. Maybe on the side you can take
some information as to what's working, you know, spay and neuter, chipping, and
then we can tailor something for this dais to just discuss at a future budget for the
next few fiscal years. Thank you. I yield.
MR. RUNNELLS: Yes, definitely.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: I'm in support. I just was kind of curious because when you do
your outreach, you wouldn't be working with veterinarians because they're in the
business of spay and neuter. And so where do you see your audience? Like, how
do you ?
MR. RUNNELLS: Currently, we're in the process of bringing on a contract
veterinarian. And a lot of those facilities that we work with in the organizations, a
lot of them have their own veterinarians or their own contract veterinarians that
they have for spay and neuters. And so those are kind of the groups that we work
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
with to try to get that out to the public in a cheaper form. It's not necessarily
taking the load off of veterinarians within the County because a lot of times those
are an additional task on them to spay and neuter for those people. So it's a
matter of us reaching a different group, in other words, than the clinics and stuff
out there. It's more the organizational groups and the spay and neuter groups that
are out in the community.
MS. EVANS: Thanks for saying that because I know in my community there's
some "volunteers" I would call them,people who have taken it on, and they do
15-20 spay and neuter every weekend. And they've just turned it into their
personal volunteerism. And that's their community give back, to do the spay and
neuter, and I think you probably know them. But do you see reaching out to
them?
MR. RUNNELLS: I do. I mean, a lot of these organizations, they fly in
sometimes veterinarians to work in their facilities and in their spay and neuter
clinics that they hold. And so it is a challenge to get people, and a lot of times the
ones that work with those groups are volunteering and volunteering their time
because it's not a monetary thing. It's a social calling for them to spay and neuter
for their community.
MS. EVANS: And the data collection part,just a quick statement on (inaudible).
MR. RUNNELLS: A lot of groups have asked for some of our numbers within
our different areas, you know, barking dog calls, dangerous dog calls, those kinds
of things. That would be tasked with us to try to compile and get out to those
groups as well. And so that effort would be something that we would have to
look into how to separate that from our databases and get it out to them.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. That was a big discussion. Before you got here, there
was a big discussion about the task force group that was stood up. And for them,
data collection was a big deal. So we really know what the problem is. Maybe
the areas we need improvement or potential focus areas. So thank you and thank
you for introducing this.
MR. RUNNELLS: That, too, will tie in with our software that we put in for this
next budget year, because the software alone, it has a huge impact on our data
collection and disseminating that to the public.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Any further discussion
on this amendment? Seeing none, all those in favor of amending Billoh,
Council Member Inaba.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. INABA: Sorry. That came quickly. I wasn't ready. As I shared earlier, I
do think that the—well, you know what? I would like to hear from Finance
Department on this. We have a bunch of amendments coming forward, and I
shared earlier that I think we, if anything, can be making cuts should it come to
that point. But I want to hear your thoughts on essentially adding additional
expense in light of what we know is real property tax resolution rate changes
coming.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Sure. Thank you, Council Member. There was a lot of
effort to put forth this budget and the amended budget. A lot of thought given
into all the different things that we talked about today and months of discussion
with the departments. We've talked again and again about our Fund Balance and
future obligations. But I also know this is a process and a collaborative process
for us to talk about our priorities and where we're comfortable with. As I
mentioned earlier, the comfort level from our financial standpoint is to have that
Fund Balance and our reserves in a higher percentage.
But I think, in all cases and in every budget cycle,we have to weigh out some of
these things that are critical. So, open to the process that we're experiencing
today and these discussions. The comfort level is what was presented. But like I
said, I understand that it is this is the way that we make changes and we look at
what are priorities. And each priority will have a sacrifice, and these are the
tough decisions that we have to make.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. With that, I think, as a general statement today
with the amendments—and, Administrator, thank you for advocating and sharing
how these funds would be used by your agency, but I don't think I'll be
supporting any of the amendments today. I think a solid budget has been
presented, and I can't see increasing any of the budget areas in light of the need to
almost decrease the budget overall. So I'll put that general statement out right
now and I'll be voting "no." Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba. Any further discussion? Let
me go to Council Member Galimba and I'll come back. Council
Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Actually, if you could maybe stay. I probably was going to
ask, but I think he might. So we do have a quite sizeable budget in Animal
Control, and I believe a lot of it is for positions that are not necessarily filled at
this point and may take a little bit to fill. I do see this amendment as being an
important avenue for the Animal Control to go down. So I'm definitely on the
learning curve here, but just wondering if there's a way to perhaps adjust things
such that this could be taken up within the amount that we have, basically a fund
transfer at this point in the process.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. NAKAGAWA: So, Council Member, ifI want to make sure I understand
your question. It relates to the budgeted amount for salaries and wages?
MS. GALIMBA: Right, which is a big amount and definitely need the people,
yeah.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Right. So we want to make sure every department and
agency has the resources that they need. Most critical are positions. And so part
of our budget discussion is really looking at the start dates. I believe some of the
information you have look at the position and start dates. And the salaries the
budget that is reflected takes into account when the department will need those
positions and their anticipated time to fill. Sometimes, it does take longer. But
that is the budget. So we want to make sure that the funding is there for the
salaries and wages for those critical positions that they've identified.
MS. GALIMBA: Thanks.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. We'll go to Council
Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Director, thank you for
the brief explanation. One hundred fifty thousand for Miscellaneous Contract
Services, community outreach and data collection. And there is another item on
the agenda for later today for 82,000. I heard you say earlier they do overlap, but
what is the hopes for this 150,000? To me, it's a lot, sorry, for community
outreach. What is under that community outreach piece that equals out to
150,000?
MR. RUNNELLS: Well, I mean, it's really a matter of us negotiating that with
the other organizations. I mean, we haven't gotten the actual details worked out
yet with them, so that's the crust of it. We have a lot of work to do with those
organizations. It takes a lot to organize multiple organizations that have their own
opinions and methods of utilizing those funds for spay and neuters. And so I
think it wouldhonestly, it takes a lot to get those groups to work together.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so right now, kind ofI mean, I'm
getting a question mark because if you get the funding, you will proceed with
going after it. But let me just,just as abroad scope, that's about$10,000-plus a
month to do outreach for community. So you're saying doing services, data,
flyers
MR. RUNNELLS: It's a combination of all of that. I mean, the education portion
alone is a huge cost depending on how these organizations want to work together
to get that message out for spay and neuters. And then just the organization of the
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
spay and neuter clinics themselves and probably into some sort of website-based
logins so that people can go and get those spay-and-neuter slots, which can be a
challenge sometimes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then you had—looks like we
already had 476,000 in the account. So that wasn't going to meet your projections
or needs?
MR. RUNNELLS: For ?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: For Animal Control Miscellaneous Contract
Services,just as a general.
MR. RUNNELLS: This would be, in addition to that, specifically for the
outreach clinics and stuff for spay and neuters.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, thank you. I yield, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Back to
you, Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. I'm just wondering if Managing
Director Sako might be able to come up because we had some conversations early
on. And I think there was some possibility that the Administration would add this
to their second draft, and I said I would do it. So I just wanted to, given my
colleague's concern about that we got this second draft and that's complete. I just
wanted to give Managing Director Sako a chance to weigh in on the benefits that
the Administration might see in this as well.
MS. SAKO: Yeah, I think we've all just been trying to balance the challenges
associated with Animal Control and Matt's been doing a great job. But it's, you
know, we're willing to try and manage a contract,but we do have to put it out
through some sort of procurement process and whatnot, which needs one more
contract for Matt and the team to manage. So, yes, we're willing to try. I mean, I
think that was our conversation earlier. We're willing to partner and try and work
with the different groups and hopefully make it better. Because, it definitely has
been challenging getting staff, getting everything up to speed. So there's a lot of
things we hope some organization can help us with, but yeah.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. Yeah, and just to clarify, basically the
public right now does not have a place to just go online and see where is their
spay and neuter this weekend, and do they have spots available. This could be a
website or way to work with the public so that it's easy for them: when they have
the time, when they can do it, and match that up with the spaces. Because, right
now, we've got these little pots of money all over the island doing this work, but
it's not coordinated in any way.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
And the other issue with that, I think, is just that because we are doing this kind of
sporadic way of doing spay and neuter, based on research and the data that I was
shown, that's not the best way to actually make significant progress on what we
want to do. It's a lot better to, for instance, look at one area, target a lot of
resources there for a certain amount of time, get that under control then move to
the next area. That's the way you can see real change and success. And the way
we're doing it now, we don't have any coordination around that, and Animal
Control just has their hands full. So yeah. So that's just my last plug for it, but
thank you and thank you both for your input.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. If I may,
when Council Member Galimba made her recommendation, I did look at the book
here. So you had roughly 15 positions that were expected to be filled in mid-
March, most of those being the control and protection officers. How many of
those were filled?
MR. RUNNELLS: I think we're up to about ten on those. Our biggest challenge
right now is Kona facility. We only got maybe half of what we wanted for that
facility, and we're reporting to try to fill the remainder of those positions as well
as a position over in the Puna District as well.
CHR. KIMBALL: So, of the fifteen, you maybe have five still open? Is that
what you're ?
MR. RUNNELLS: Yeah, about five, yeah.
CHR. KIMBALL: About five. And then there were another eleven positions due
to be filled on April 1, looks like mostly administrative?
MR. RUNNELLS: Mostly administrative. We're also writing the positions for
the kennel technicians, to move them from contract to civil servant positions as
well. And that's roughly about the same number equal to the animal control
officers.
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. And then another 16 primarily kennel techs for mid-
April?
MR. RUNNELLS: Yeah, those are the ones that are currently on contract that
we're moving into the civil servant positions.
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. So those are all technically filled?
MS. SAKO: We still have to pay for them, yes.
MR. RUNNELLS: Yeah, and we're not even fully staffed on that, even with the
contract positions right now.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. So the five open animal control and protection officer
positions, we're under continuous recruitment, right, for that. So what's the
turnaround time once you get an application in to bring somebody onboard?
MR. RUNNELLS: It depends. I mean, it can be a month or so, depends on how
fast that process goes, but yeah.
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. It's not the typical three-month turnaround.
MR. RUNNELLS: We still have a couple on contract, but yes, it's about a
month, I would say, once the process goes from beginning to end, yeah.
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay, all right. Are we getting regular applicants for these, or
are you still struggling?
MR. RUNNELLS: Well, we had one run through with the listing for those
positions, and now we're reporting it and going to put it probably on a continuous
post until we get those positions filled.
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. All right. Thank you for that. Yeah, okay. Based on
that, I'm going to suggest that there's probably not enough room in that staffing
budget to cover this amount for even anticipating a little bit of a delay with
respect to hiring. So I think that I'm not super keen on all of the stuff coming
from Fund Balance. I would like to do things like look at vacant positions that
have not been filled and calculate what room is there. But in your particular
budget, it doesn't seem like there's much wiggle room. So I'll support this
particular amendment at this time. All right, with that, we will move forward
with the vote on the system and Bill 136, Draft 2,with the contents of
Communication 755.11. All those in favor?
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 755.11 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Kimball—8.
Noes: Council Member Inaba— 1.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Administrator. If we can now go to
Communication 755.12.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.12. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. And I just wanted to call forward some
members of the Fire Department. This particular communication is requesting the
acquisition of two sports utility vehicles for a couple of our battalion chiefs. The
first would be for Stacy Domingo, emergency communications. Actually, the first
female battalion chief for our Fire Department. So congratulations. So awesome!
As part of her kuleana, she manages the folks that are in our very important
Dispatch Center, and she currently does not have a vehicle that she utilizes to do
official County business. She actually uses her own personal vehicle, and it has
accumulated a lot of mileage on her car, or van. I think you said you have five
keiki? Yes. And so this would allow her to take dispatchers out into the
community and really familiarize themselves with the district so that when they're
on the call with anybody that calls 911, they're able to provide just a bit more
context and information and support during those calls. BC (Battalion Chief), is
there anything else that you might want to add to this?
(Note: At this time, Battalion Chief Stacy Domingo, Hawaii Fire
Department, came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MS. DOMINGO: Hi, good morning. Stacy Domingo, Battalion Chief, Hawaii
Fire Department. So the request for this vehicle comes with also—as everybody
is aware that we do have some challenges with staffing in our Dispatch Center, as
well as we've kind of done an overhaul and a revamp of our entire training
program for our dispatchers.
One of those things that we're noticing is that a lot of our dispatchers are the
people who are applying for the position are familiar with where they grew up,
but they don't realize that when they're taking calls for anyone in our community,
they could be trying to navigate or send our responders to a place that is not
familiar to the dispatcher. So what we do is we try to take them out into the
communities, to all of our districts, so that they can be familiar with not only just
that area, but understanding the boundaries of which vehicles would respond to
which places as well as just specific things about those districts. For example,
maybe the community calls a certain road by a certain name, but on the map it has
a different name.
Just understanding little, what do they call them, nuances for each community so
that they can be familiar and provide better information for our responders to get
them to the address or the location much quicker. That's just one of the things
that this vehicle would be used for. Also,just for my response, I've noticed that,
because we didn't have a ranked person in this position before and it was reliant
on the supervisors that were just on duty, this gives me the opportunity to come in
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
for when we have things like the storms or major natural disasters or events, I
could respond to the call center more efficiently, as well as the EOC (Emergency
Operations Center) if needed.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks, Stacy Domingo. And the other vehicle is actually
for Battalion Chief Vern Hara, if he wanted to come forward, our fossil. So he
kind of operates the fire departments like Amazon Warehouse, if you may; a lot
of equipment that our stations need. And so I understand that you had an electric
vehicle but it kept breaking, and then there was another vehicle and that's kind of
out of commission. And so it's really evident that you need a vehicle of some
kind to help you to make deliveries and visit the various stations to make sure that
they have what they need.
(Note: At this time, Battalion Chief Vern Hara, Hawaii Fire Department,
came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. HARA: Thank you, Council. As you said, I'm Battalion Chief Hara and I
manage the warehouse. And the other station that I do is our vehicle maintenance
section, our mechanics. And previously to Chief Domingo getting promoted, I
was overseeing the Dispatch Center also.
I did have a repurposed vehicle to use just to get myself to meetings between
various vendors, appointments, whatever. The warehouse is a huge deal. We
carry everything from household items for the fire station to fire equipment and
all the tools that the firefighters need. So we, a lot of times, have to run around
and pick up equipment. Just programs that we do to try to keep our gear in shape
and stuff. We really didn't have a vehicle prior to that. We were utilizing a van
and then we got that upgraded a while ago, prior to me getting in. But we had just
one vehicle that had to be shared with my warehouse person to try to coordinate
stuff to get to meetings and pick up vehicles.
We did notice that there was a vehicle that wasn't being utilized, so I tried to
repurpose that. It was a 2005 hybrid, which hasn't been the most reliable, to say.
But my mechanics, being that that was my section, tried to keep it alive for a
while, and I think it's probably at the end of its lifespan. And we also was able to
repurpose another Ford Expedition, which is also another 2005 with over
300,000 miles, which has been having some issues also. I mean, for the most
part, I'm grateful just to have a vehicle so we can go and attend meetings and get
to places doing County business. But I appreciate being given the opportunity to
get a vehicle for myself and for Chief Domingo. I think it's very much needed.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: You both do incredibly essential work, and we need to set
you up for success. In order to do that, you need every tool available, not just a
vehicle.
MR. HARA: Thank you. I appreciate it.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks for being here. Looking for my colleagues'
support on this. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Go ahead, Council
Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha and congratulations for being the first woman battalion
chief. Congratulations. Quick question: $120,000 for two vehicles is a lot of
money, so I am just I mean, I get the need for an SUV (sport utility vehicle)
because you're hauling lots of things, and you're going to a lot of 4-wheel drive
places, I assume. But I just have questions about the amount of money for two
cars. That's a pretty big price tag for two vehicles, and I want to get you guys in
the best, safest, most fiscally-responsible vehicles. But my question comes with
the amount of money for two cars. That's a big number for two vehicles.
MR. HARA: Yeah, I think on the surface it does look like it is a lot but with the
increase of everything. But also know that we have to have fire radios in there.
So that's a pretty hefty price tag. Also, to get there is we need communication.
SometimesI don't know for Stacy. I don't know if we're going to get lights
but, I mean, we're flexible. We'll work with whatever.
MS. VILLEGAS: Of course you are. You've been navigating a vehicle that
doesn't—yeah.
MR. HARA: I've been getting stuck on the road for months sometimes.
MS. VILLEGAS: Nobody wants that.
MR. HARA: Just yesterday, my vehicle wasn't cooperating too much, so I spent
a little bit of time trying to jump it. But, yeah, I mean we're flexible. I think that
was just a ballpark number for Chief Domingo needed an Expedition-sized
vehicle. So I think we just rolled with that. I willI mean, it would be nice to
have that so I can
MS. VILLEGAS: I get it. We're wish listing here.
MR. HARA: Correct.
MS. VILLEGAS: And when we wish list, we go big.
MR. HARA: Right, but we're flexible.
MS. VILLEGAS: It's just I would be remiss not to ask the question because of
the price tag on two vehicles. I'm going to get smacked on the back by
constituents.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. HARA: No, no, I mean it is a big price tag. We are aware of that. But there
are some other things that we need to outfit the vehicle. It's not just the vehicle
itself. There needs to be communication, lights, yeah. I might not need the lights.
But we're flexible for sure, but yeah, it does look like it's a big price tag.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. So I guess my question would be then, with this
amendment, is the price tag that you've presented as part of this amendment
flexible?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, if I might? The $60,000 was made at the
recommendation of Fire leadership. And so I certainly want to hear from
Fire One or Chief Springer on that. I trust the departments to identify exactly
what they need. And so, if this is what they said they needed, I want to be able to
support and honor that.
MS. VILLEGAS: And I completely appreciate that, and I also just want to honor
the process of a budget being created by the Mayor's office and our Director of
Finance, and their decision not to have placed this in the budget to begin with. So
this is the dance we get to do in this.
(Note: At this time, Fire Chief Kazuo Todd came forward to address the
members of the Council.)
MR. TODD: So, relative to the amount of the vehicle, those are based off of
financial set amounts from the Finance Department in terms of what kind of
vehicle. So, when we put together our supplementary budget request, which
we've put together for the Finance Department and the Mayor's Administration to
look through, based on the vehicle class that they're going to get, there's a set
amount that's tied to that supplemental budget request. So, in that particular case,
because they'd identified SUVs, we'd go down the list. The SUV, they'd say, or
when you put that supplemental together, ask for 60,000. So the numbers that are
there are not something that the Fire Department came up with based on
MS. VILLEGAS: Gotcha.
MR. TODD: Going out for any kind of, like, "Hey, let's go over to Ford and see
how much this costs." It's just we have a list, and based on the vehicle class that
they're looking to
MS. VILLEGAS: There's a template.
MR. TODD: There's a template we follow.
MS. VILLEGAS: There's a template. Thank you for explaining that. That's
helpful.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. TODD: And then my understanding is these are tied back to our
supplemental request that had been put forward. And so part of our job in the Fire
Department is to be as transparent as possible. So, every month, we send you our
monthly report on everything going on in the department, but we also send out
our budgetary request and everything else.
And I talked with our Finance Director. Each department might rule—and the
way I look at my job as the Fire Chief, as well as any director for any other
department, is to provide all the information, and then the Finance Department
will make those decisions on where is the priority. And then from the Fire
Department's perspective, we take what we're given and we're going to make it
work to the extent that we have the capacity to do so. And so while I appreciate
any additional funding you want to throw in our direction, and I a hundred percent
guarantee will spend it, we also do want to be good stewards of the money and
work well with the other County departments. And so, for that respect, we fully
are here to take whatever direction the County Council and the Mayor's
Administration and the Finance Department want us to go in, and we'll make it
work.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chief Todd. And you go above and beyond and
partner with nonprofit and community organizations to get funding and the
resources for your department above and beyond what unfortunately the County
can't always provide for you. I just had to ask those questions, so thank you for
your responses and always being transparent and honest and humorous. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. I'm not sure who was
next over there. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. There's always the challenge of making sure you have
the equipment and that it's but I was just thinking out loud to myself, you don't
really have a motor pool or, let's say, the ability to have someone access if they
really need it. For example, I'm thinking if these vehicles broke down yet the
need was there, how would you adjust things so they make sure they have what
they need?
MR. TODD: Generally, when we're talking about these type of support vehicles,
I break them up into three tiers. So there's the operational response tier. And so,
for our stations, the first step is usually placing vehicles at the station. And this
would include allowing us to respond off-road or our 4x4 trucks and things like
that. And so that's the first tier, is doing the 911 response.
The second tier would be in our support services, which are the vehicles we kind
of see here today. And this is that we've got to move supplies around. We've got
to move personnel around. It's not a response to a 911, but it is in support of that
service to the community.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
And, finally, there's the third tier, like our chief officers here in Admin
(Administration), which you might see some vehicles out there. And so, when it's
really hitting the fan, often sometimes those vehicles end up somewhere else, or
lent out or things like that, sort of as a pool on a temporary nature. I don't have a
vehicle. A number of years ago when I became Fire Chief,prevention bureau
lacked enough vehicles to adequately go out and do inspections, and that's our
second tier. Considering myself as a third tier, I gave up my vehicle. So that
vehicle is still with our prevention bureau.
And, through the budgetary process this fiscal year, we were actually able to pick
up three new vehicles for prevention, but inevitably—even when I ran as the
fossil and ran the warehouse, we had a Ford van which was how old? It was like
an Astro from I think it was in the `90s. And I just had the jumping battery pack
inside there with me that I would use to occasionally restart my vehicle because it
would drain out. And that's what we had. So we made it work, and that was how
things worked. And I think back then we also had some money from COVID
(coronavirus disease), so we were able to pick up a new NV200 Nissan van. It
was pretty awesome. And EMS (Emergency Medical Services) always has
money because the State. But, yeah, that's generally kind of the tiers on how we
get to our decision-making process for where vehicles go.
I do want to remark that this year one of the supplementary budget items that has
been increased is for vehicles. That's $1.2 million. It's part of our bigger lease
plan. So, originally, our budget for replacing fire trucks was about a million
dollars, which is drastically less than most of the other departments in the State.
But it's what we had and so we're in that process of replacing vehicles. In that
process this year, we'd asked for additional funding because, one, the cost of fire
trucks has gone up. It's been a big dialogue between us, and just recently, this
week, we were still having meetings on how it was going to proceed.
But one of the things the Finance Department wanted was an entire vehicle
replacement list, like every vehicle we have on our primary response level. How
old is it? When would we be replacing it? How much are we expecting the cost?
And we broke it down into multiple tables with going out pretty much for like the
next 10-15 years in terms of when we're going to be replacing vehicles. And if
you guys are interested in that document, it will be a one-year document where
we replace it. As the vehicles run into new mechanical problems or things like
that, we'll be updating them and they may move up or down in the priority list for
replacement.
One of the issues and one of the reasons for that is that fire trucks are taking about
four years to build right now. So, if I order a truck today, it can take four years
for that truck to arrive. And so the planning that needs to go into replacing trucks
is now four years out. And we've got to really think about, like, hey, what is the
truck we want to replace not this year but four years from now? And so, for that
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
reason, they did increase our budget on vehicle replacements in that line item, up
to 2.2 million this year. And that will be used for us to go out and pick up some
of our bigger vehicles and things like that.
MS. EVANS: Okay. I guess my thought is I really don't feel comfortable with
supporting it right now, but I do really would like to see you're talking about a
replacement list for fire trucks and being able to kind of show how things need to
be replaced. I would love to see a replacement list for your second and third tier,
you know, your support services group, your admin officers, and then you have
the 911. I'd love to see the replacement list for all three levels, and we start
plugging that in because it's really important. I mean obviously they need it, but I
kind of feel like there may be grant money. There may be other avenues to
maybe hold this together. But I really think that might help.
MR. TODD: We'll get you a copy of the current document. It is lacking in two
areas. One was in our support services vehicles. I didn't have current data when I
needed to put that together, and they're more on the modest side of the total price
tag. A fire truck nowadays is running $1.2 million. So I really needed to focus in
on the really expensive pieces of equipment that we needed to have that
replacement plan for, as there's gaps in a purchasing scheme. There's opportunity
to pick up some of our smaller, more affordable vehicles. But I'll get you the
current document. And then anyone in the County Council who wants kind of
what is the Fire Department's plan for vehicle replacement, we can provide that
document.
MS. EVANS: Yeah, because it's for all, support services as well as admin
officers, all of it. You're going to need replacement. And the other thing is your
decision when you send it to the bone yard, so to speak, you're going to have to
make that decision. On any vehicle, you'll eventually say, "It's just too expensive
a replacement. I can't get the part." Whatever it is. So you're going to have
those decision points, and I think that's important. Because, you're going to get
close where you see it coming: "Next time, we're not going to fix it."
MR. TODD: Yeah. Well, we do have a category ranking system that's built into
that plan that explains kind of how those decisions are made.
MS. EVANS: Okay. Thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council Member
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Chief Todd
and associated chiefs and battalion chiefs. How many vehicles do we have in this
Auxiliary Services Department right now that are comparable to an SUV?
MR. TODD: We have an older Exhibition, which we've rebuilt the motor for.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And this is island-wide?
MR. TODD: Yeah. Auxiliary Services services island-wide. There are other
vehicles. We have box trucks for delivery of EMS supplies. EMS funding
basically pays for that, and that was $110,000 for a new box truck. Just letting
you guys know how much those things cost nowadays. And then we have, for
smaller deliveries, we have that Nissan van that was purchased from CARES
(Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security)money. So that's pretty much
our fleet at the moment.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. How many personnel?
MR. TODD: Three—we're creating a fourth one in Auxiliary Services, and then
that doesn't cover our new battalion chief in Dispatch, which we've never really
had, historically, a vehicle for. Generally, when we had a battalion chief that was
in charge of that, who wasn't that battalion chief, they would use their vehicle or
borrow a vehicle. I also went out in my personal vehicle when I used to take
dispatchers around, and then claim mileage or things like that. So that's kind of
how that's worked in the past. It works as long as you have less than three
dispatchers in my truck.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So we have one more position that's been
filled since then (inaudible).
MR. TODD: So, right now, Auxiliary Services has three positions. There's a
fourth position that's in the process of being created. It's a mechanical repair
position. They'll be managing kind of the repairs for the department. And one of
the things we've been trying to figure out—and I was, earlier in this meeting,
showing a picture of a box truck over at Ford that has this really awesome racking
system in the back of it, that I was like, "Man, we need to get that vehicle." It's
about 40 grand and it's at Ford at the moment. It's a used vehicle but the
contractor had installed the most amazing aluminum rack system in the back of
the box truck, and I'm like "That's what we need."
I have no idea how we're going to fund that or whatever, but it's one of those
areas where I was like "That's the perfect vehicle for this position." We could
have the auger to go and clean out the sinks and the drainpipes. And we could put
all the extrication equipment and extra supplies, and it would have everything.
Dreams. Things we are looking forward to.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm in the trade so I understand how nice it
is to have a car or a truck or a van with racks and a whole system. It just makes
life easy.
MR. TODD: I can show you the picture. It's just if you're interested.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's not this, though, yeah?
MR. TODD: No. It has nothing to do with this stuff.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Let's keep it—okay, so we're
coming to four positions. We have one vehicle right now?
MR. TODD: It sort of depends. So, on the EMS delivery side, we have the box
truck. We also have the small van. So those are for the delivery side of things.
The Chief has a rebuilt Ford, which we've thrown in a rebuilt engine to that we're
letting him use at the moment. We'll see how long that lasts. It's a little bit on
the old side.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: What year is it?
MR. TODD: 2005.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: 320,000 miles? Okay.
MR. TODD: We try to use them until they die.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I'm good. Okay, thank you. I yield,
Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. All right, as much as these conversations are
enjoyable, let's keep them succinct and on point. We have a lot of amendments to
get through. Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks. Thanks, Fire One, for being here, and friends.
Absolutely in support. And I'm actually really reflecting on how Police does it,
because they actually have vehicle allowance. And I'm just wondering why these
kind of positions aren't allowed that type of vehicle allowance. Is that a
contractual thing that they have?
MR. TODD: I have no idea. But if you want to get Finance and Deanna to give
the Fire no. The Fire Department has never done a vehicle allowance system
like Police have. We do,just like any other County worker, have the ability to
claim mileage and get repaid. So I do visitation for stations and do claim miles,
but not everyone's personal vehicle is particularly useful for the function that that
might be needed for. So that sometimes poses a problem.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. I guess, for some of the work that you guys are doing, I
can see this type of vehicle being part of the work, right. Police officers jump in
their car; that's their office. You guys go to the station and jump in a fire truck or
an ambulance; that's your office. So I can actually see kind of a hybrid there.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
But I'm in support of this. I think having you guys have the right tools,just like a
police officer has their duty belt, this is the tool for you guys to do your job.
That's where I stand on this amendment. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Council
Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thanks. Of the amendments here for your department today, is
this the top priority? If it isn't, what is?
MR. TODD: My diplomatic answer is that the Finance Department is an amazing
department, and they have an amazing Director who has given us lots and lots of
things that I've asked for. From the perspective of the Fire Chief, obviously any
additions we will shepherd, spend, and get stuff done. As far as ranking,
everything usually falls into that supplemental list in terms of what we consider a
priority. So No. 1 was our highest priority and so on down the list.
Some of these things were pulled out just because of their price points. Like our
first thing on the list is ungodly expensive, and that's one of the reasons it's not
necessarily going to get selected. But as far as priority, they're usually based in
whatever rank they were added into our supplementals. And I have no idea which
ones these were pulled in order from. Sorry. I apologize.
MS. GALIMBA: You want a list?
MR. TODD: Let me grab my book in the back there. So my understanding is
these are Supplementals 38-42. Nope. That's the building construction one.
That's the (inaudible)trailer. Hold on. So these are for Auxiliary Services, and I
don't think we actually had a supplemental for our battalion chief of Dispatch as
that didn't exist at the time that we were putting it together.
Okay. So, basically, these were Supplementals 40, 42, and 44. And I think the
ones we are talking about right now are 40 and 42. Relative to that, the Auxiliary
Services supplemental was 42, and the SUV for Fire Training was 40.
MR. INABA: We're only on Auxiliary.
MR. TODD: Yes. I don't think we're talking about No. 40 right now. We're
talking about 42, and both of them are technically being added into the same
supplemental. I hope that clears something up. Not really, I suppose. But, yeah,
these wereI will be fully acknowledging the fact that the Fire Department
literally writes down every problem we have in our department, creates a
supplemental for it, and then supplies it to Finance under the premise of full
transparency, like, "If we could solve every problem, this is the $10 million-plus
price tag that would do it." And then they have to weigh that against all the other
problems within every other department.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
All of our battalion chiefs are part of our budgetary process, and they basically
come forward with every need that they might have that would be solved by
money. If it's not a money issue, it's a(inaudible). We could take care of that in-
house. But if it's a money issue where they can't do it because they don't have
the funding, they put together supplementals. Those supplementals come up and
our assistant chiefs and myself, as the Fire Chief, and the deputy sit down and we
rack and stack everything. And then we provide that full listing based on the first
thing, which is the most important, down to the bottom. If you need a copy, I can
always make you a copy of the rack and stack. Also, if you have the original
supplemental sheets, there's generally a priority number on them, and that will
itself tell you where the rack and stack as far as our total list of things.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Chief. I did see that this was No. 42 on the
supplemental list. And, obviously, we all know the whole Council and probably
especially Council Member Kierkiewicz and I are big supporters of the Fire
Department. I know we have funds in this account, and I think there's room to
get creative to still meet the needs of the battalion chiefs before us. But I will be
sticking with my position on not adding additional expenditures to the budget.
And I know you're a wizard with your finances. You can work with the Finance
Department to get these vehicles to make sure that our residents are getting
served. I'll be voting "no." Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba. Anyone else? Just a quick
question. Lease versus buy these vehicles, is that something that was discussed?
Or is this a Finance question?
MR. TODD: We've not explored that option. Generally speaking, on the lower
end price point where we're talking hundred thousand or less, we just go out and
buy. And then our $1 million vehicles are generally on some kind of a lease or
payment plan,just to even out the spikes in total costs.
CHR. KIMBALL: Finance Director, your thoughts on what that might mean to
lease versus buy these two vehicles.
MS. NAKAGAWA: As the Chief explained, most of our purchases for the
smaller passenger vehicles we do buy outright. The larger vehicles or the bigger
equipment cost are those that are leased. There is interest that we pay on those.
So, if we can go ahead and pay outright, the vehicles, that's what we go ahead and
do. The other things that we have been looking at recently is looking at used
vehicles. Just a few years or even a year, that could cut some of the cost on the
vehicles.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
I wanted to add to the comment earlier, a question about the cost of vehicles. So
the Purchasing Division does send out kind of the average cost over the year. We
have seen dramatic increases, but it is a range. And it is also what the companies,
the car lots, have at the time. So sometimes our bids come back on timing and
what they want to get rid of on the lot. So it could be as low as 45, and sometimes
a little higher. But you've seen a lot of the transfers lately, and a lot of them have
had to cover cost because of the increase in the price. But, sorry, to answer your
question, yes, it's evaluated more. So trying, on the vehicles, to pay for them.
Higher cost to lease.
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay, great. Thank you. With that, I will go ahead and move
forward with the vote on the amendment, which is Communication 755.12. All
those in favor, please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 755.12 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Galimba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
and Chair Kimball –5.
Noes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
and Villegas –4.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Before we go on to the next amendment, I'm actually going to
ask Council Member—since we've got Director Pause here and I want to be
respectful of his time, Chief, I'm going to have Director Pause come up.
MR. TODD: You're kicking me off? Okay. I got it.
CHR. KIMBALL: Unless you want to—get out of here. No, we want to have
that question wrapped up before we move on.
(Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that comment, Chair. Can I?
CHR. KIMBALL: Yes, please go ahead.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you for coming,
Director. I asked some questions earlier. I'm just looking at the increases in this
version of the budget and wondering what that does for your department.
Ms. Kalua-Lewis was—am I saying that right? Kalua-Lewis?
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. She was helpful in providing
some information earlier in lieu of your absence. Now that you're here, looking
at the broader budget, we had some increases for DPW (Department of Public
Works). Highways Division got some increases. So, looking to see what those
are going to do for our community, what we're budgeting for.
MR. PAUSE: Sure. Steve Pause, Director of Public Works. My apologies for
not getting here sooner. I think when we did the original budget presentation, we
talked a lot on the equipment side of being able to enhance our Highways folks to
allow us to continue on the path that we've chartered here with increased paving.
So, to that respect, there was equipment put in to allow that to—and again
recognizing that we're a few years out, or one or more years out, when we start
acquiring equipment, but we put in a paver. We put in some ancillary equipment,
some additional dump trucks. So, from an equipment standpoint on the Highways
side, I think that we tried to account for that in this year's budget.
And one of the other areas that we also talked about at the original budget reading
was related to technology and our plans to improve project management software,
as well as asset management for looking towards buildings. I think there was
also, more recently, a supplement for some additional maintenance funding for
the buildings, given our somewhat antiquated assets and County facilities. So I
think, all in all, there's a fair amount of comfort with what we've put forward
here, unless my Business Manager kicks me under the desk. I think we're okay.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: No kicking.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The maintenance we've spoken to, has any
of the budgeted expenses been increased for this coming fiscal year to allow you
to do more of the projects you're hoping to get done?
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yes. So we were actually awarded some additional funds
in R&M (Repair and Maintenance) to kind of help the Building Division. That
can probably go towards consultants to kind of help identify some of the—we
have a big list of buildings that need repairs. And also, the funding to help with
the facilities assessment, I think the Director and Deputy discussed their plan for
that during our initial budget review.
MR. PAUSE: What she says.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then to the EPIC (Electronic
Processing and Information Center) system, any changes? Any financing being
put—are funds being put towards that?
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MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yeah, we got additional funding for the maintenance of
EPIC as well.
MR. PAUSE: But to that degree, one of the things we've talked about, and I
know we've budgeted for that as well, is you've heard me talk from time to time
about process improvement, the lean process, and being able to get some of our
folks trained and to be able to seriously start looking at, especially on the
permitting side, of what sorts of things can we streamline.
You've heard me speak a little bit in the past about some of our ideas, but just
making changes and amendments to the software to be able to implement some of
those streamlined processes that we're looking to do. As most folks know, we're
still susceptible to glitches with our software folks, with additional suppliers that
are tied into the EPIC system. Bluebeam is what I'm talking about. So the more
we can do to take some of the human element out and make it more
straightforward and allow people to use the technology. So that's all part of the
process mapping, and I think we've accounted for that as well.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Any maintenance that's been
additional? Any maintenance funding? Things that we deferred and deferred,
and we've talked about it at length, have we put the right money in the right place
to make sure those projects happen?
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Our Building R&M, we got an additional 500,000. So it's
about 1.25 million right now. I think that's going to be a big help to just the
facilities in general.
MR. PAUSE: In one of the other areas, and I think I covered this last time as
well, is specific to facilities assessment. As we look at developing an asset
management system for the County's 90-plus facilities, we've also been working
with R&D and with, I believe, with the Sustainability office as well, through a
grant to develop a plan to do a facilities assessment. So what that will do is,
No. 1, identify what we have out there and, No. 2, identify the condition of what's
out there and, No. 3, better steer us towards where our priorities should be as we
go forward. And No. 4 is to help us budget better next year. I think this year will
be the year to figure out how good or bad or ugly the facilities are, and then when
we're back next year saying, "Okay, we've identified a few things that just really
can't wait." So I think we're charting a path in the right direction.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: I'll also add that we hired a program manager in our
Admin Division. So, really, someone who will be able to focus on the data and
how other programs will integrate together. I think it's going to be a huge help to
complete our goals and our visions.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. There's an additional position
as well that the Finance Department has put in to be a coordinator for our CIP
budget that might tie well into your folks' department as well. It's just much
needed, what do we call it, silo breaking?
MR. PAUSE: Yeah, no, that sounds great. That sounds good.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Beautiful. Okay. Thank you for the update,
Steve. Appreciate it. Thank you. I yield, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Any other questions for the Director? Thank you,
Director. I have no questions for you.
MR. PAUSE: Thank you.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. All right, we will return to amendments. Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.13. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. This particular amendment proposes to
do a couple of things. First, acquire a vehicle for our Training Battalion
Chief Patrick Springer. Fire One and BC Springer, if you want to come forward.
And the other investment is in a Fire Ground Survival trailer, and that's to ensure
that our firefighters are proficient in self-survival skills. It's something that can
be because it's mobile, it can be taken to stations all around the island and, in
my mind, actually saving taxpayers money because we were able to take a trailer
that has a training system within it to each of those stations so that our personnel
can do important things like practice calling a Mayday. And I'd love for you to
kind of explain to my colleagues, BC Springer, and the public what a Mayday is.
And then, within this trailer, they are going to be able to utilize their breathing
apparatus, breach walls, disentangle from wires. Basically, anything that could
arise as part of a call, they will be able to essentially have real-world sort of
training practice in this trailer, which will help them in the event of a real call.
(Note: At this time, Battalion Chief Patrick Springer, Hawaii Fire
Department, came forward to address the members of the Council.)
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. SPRINGER: Good morning, Council. BC Patrick Springer, HFD (Hawai`i
Fire Department) Training. So answering some questions today about the FGS
(Fire Ground Survival)trailer and the vehicle to tow that trailer and other things.
So the Fire Ground Survival trailer is estimated to cost around $56,000, and it will
cost$11,000 to ship here from California.
What this trailer will allow us to do, as Council Member Kierkiewicz stated, is
conduct Fire Ground Survival training. Now what that means is teaching our
firefighters everything they need to know about self-survival. This is for interior
structural firefighting. Once they go into that atmosphere, it's immediately
dangerous to life and health.
So, basically, what we're talking mostly about is entrapment, injury on the fire
ground, or problem with their air supply. This teaches our personnel how to
prevent the Mayday in the first place. And a Mayday is basically any problem we
cannot resolve within 30 seconds. In that environment, it can threaten our lives
within that short amount of time. That's when we call it.
What a Mayday consists of is who, what, where. We provide that information
over the radio, and then we go into our self-survival procedures, which this course
provides our personnel the knowledge, skills, and ability to prevent a Mayday,
first of all, and then what to do when they get into trouble.
So everything from disentanglement, from wires to bailing out of elevated
windows, getting onto ladders, all of those different things, navigating out on a
hose line. All of those different things are skills that they need to have in their
skill set because, for me, as a training chief, my greatest fear is one of our guys
doesn't make it home—guys or girls. And with this particular training program, it
does save a lot of money. The training is done on duty at the station. So we can
tow the trailer there and run guys through the training while they're on duty.
The only overtime expenditure for that would be related to if we had to bring an
outside instructor in, usually one or two. We have one supervising the evolution
and doing most of the training. And then one safety officer-trainer combination.
So they kind of oversee things like high angle delay systems for fall protection.
So, yeah, that is for Fire Ground Survival.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chief. And so, basically, without this trailer,
you're not able to ensure that career personnel are actively training in these
lifesaving actions.
MR. SPRINGER: Not in a financially effective manner. The other option would
be to bring all the employees in on overtime to a fixed site and run the whole
department of 350 personnel in. So 350 times 8 times hourly rate; it gets out of
control really quick. We're trying to do a hybrid approach to training where they
do all their pre-course material before they even come, and then we do training at
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the station. And then the last tier beyond that is where we move to off-duty
compensated training. So that's the cost-effectiveness of getting a trailer for us.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chief. I appreciate you being here. Looking
for my colleagues' support. I yield.
MR. SPRINGER: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Just recap for me. So they will do online training first, and then
they will get one-on-one training, which is what you're asking for, so they can go
out and do the one-on-one. And then you said there's off duty—give me kind of
what would that look the off-duty part.
MR. SPRINGER: So, for this particular program, it eliminates the off-duty part.
We do everything at the station while they're already working, in between calls.
The normal sequence for training is they will come in and do, after doing their
work on the computer, doing online modules or instructor-led on the computer.
They may get some training at the station as a workup and then they'll come in
off duty.
So a classic example unrelated to fire ground survival would be rescue. They
can't be setting up a rescue system on a cliffside and be available for calls. This
particular program, we can still be available for calls and, hence, not incur
overtime.
MS. EVANS: Got it. Okay. I have a question for the Fire Chief on this one.
Because it is the operating budget, if we're saving in salary and wages or on
overtime, could you not internally just say, "I'm going to shift from the way we
train now to this," and kind of you balance it out because you're saving money
over here?
MR. TODD: I think the major issue is that we haven't been annually doing the
training with all of our personnel. So the main thing with this trailer is we have
the props to do the training but they're huge. So you can fit one of the props, and
we have four or five.
MR. SPRINGER: There's two sets of props and there is five or six props that go
along with it, along with auxiliary equipment. The trailer fits everything inside.
And the other thing the trailer does—what the fire stations don't have is a secure
elevated platform to train getting out of windows, whether they're jumping out,
whether they're using a rope or using a ladder system. We would need a hill or a
staircase to set up the normal props. That's the big selling point on the trailer for
me, is the window props pop out from the top and there's anchor points in the top.
So our personnel train right off the top of that. Yeah.
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MS. EVANS: Okay. For some reason, I thought our U.S. (United States) Senator
Inouye got a training facility at Kona Airport that they thought people would
MR. TODD: So you're talking about the training facility that was going to be
built at the airport?
MS. EVANS: Yeah.
MR. TODD: I have seen the plans. Someday, they may be built.
MS. EVANS: You mean they didn't built it, okay. Because, it seemed to me it
was meant for this type of training.
MR. TODD: Yeah. There has been a lot of talk within our County as well as in
the State level about having a State facility for firefighters to be able to come and
train throughout the State. Even the plans that had been drawn up for the Kona
Airport that Chief Max Matias had been working on had been scaled back
because of funding decreases and things like that, and have yet to ever been
actually started. So they do have their fuselage training prop out there.
And then we do work with our partners up at PTA (P6hakuloa Training Area)to
do live fire training and everything else like that, and we're actually in concert
right now talking with them about maybe expanding on some of those things that
they're doing. So we do work with our partners for training. In this particular
one, grants through IAFF (International Association of Fire Fighters) I think
originally bought us the props.
MR. SPRINGER: That's correct.
MR. TODD: We've had them for a number of years and mostly we brought our
people in on overtime to do the training in past years. But what we want to do is
we want to make this training available more frequently, and we bring the training
to our personnel to avoid those costs. And the problem is we can fit maybe one,
maybe two, props in the back of a truck, and there's a lot of props in part of this
training. Because, one prop will teach them how to go through a course way with
a lot of wires where they've got to figure out their way to get through the wires.
Another is teaching them to bail out of windows. Another one is teaching them to
take off their SCBA (self-contained breathing apparatus) and move through pieces
of wood, that if they were coming through a wall that they had to break their way
out of.
There's a variety of different props that teach them different skills necessary that
if they get trapped in the fire, how to self-extricate, how to get out of the house,
how not to basically pass away. So it's about fire ground survival.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. EVANS: I guess my last question is I know when Deanna was up here, there
was, and even Diane mentioned, there was a big push on putting more and more
money into training. Did you get any of that training dollars?
MR. TODD: So the big push on the training funding, and Diane or Deanna could
always come and correct me if I'm mistaken, is that there's a million dollar fund
that we have put within the Finance Department that all departments have access
to request money for. And I should mention the Fire Department has been very
active because the Fire Chief really likes money. And so I don't know what
percentage of that budget we ended up using, but we did use a reasonable amount
of that, sometimes for overtime or sometimes for travel expenses. It's not so
much for equipment. It's mostly to get training funded and to happen.
And then this particular request that is coming through, while I don't think it was
one of our supplementals, it was one of the things that had come up in later
conversations, and this trailer just allows us to facilitate better training for our
personnel at the stations.
MS. EVANS: The training sounds like a critical thing that—it sounds like you
"have to"versus—it's like a need versus a want is the way I
MR. TODD: I might defer to Pat on this a little bit. We have had I think all of
our department go through the training at least once. But, for some people, that
might have been four or five years ago at this point.
MR. SPRINGER: So, Chief, the training, we actually trained the whole
department about ten years ago. That's when we got a Federal grant through
Assistance to Firefighters to fund that initial training and rollout. The reason the
recurrency training, the refresher training, got cut way back in the day was
because of the overtime expenditure and because this is a skill you want to
practice at least once a year, but more often than that. So, if we're talking about
retraining personnel in this critical skill once a year, we're talking about cost year
in and year out for this particular skill set. This way with the trailer, we can get it
done all on duty just for the one-time cost of the trailer and whatever residual
maintenance cost that would be associated with it.
MS. EVANS: Well, I think it's a really creative solution to try to cut costs. What
will happen with the—how is it going to be used when they're not training?
Because, you've got it for 365 days if you get this. So how will it be
effectivelyotherwise, you've got a trailer(inaudible).
MR. SPRINGER: We have 20 stations and 350 career personnel to run through.
So to deliver an eight-hour refresher during a working shift, it may take us two
days to get through one shift. At a station, we have three shifts. So the way I see
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it, if this prop is going to be at a station throughout the year, it's not going to
likely be sitting at all in a boneyard anywhere. We're going to be moving it
around station to station, finishing the training in between calls.
We also have the recruit training program that we're going to utilize it for. And
as well as Chief mentioned, we have interagency partners with the State as well as
P6hakuloa Fire and Emergency Services. And we are actually the initial entity on
island that brought the training down here. So, for us, we'd like to branch out and
share the experience with our brother-and-sister departments on the island.
MS. EVANS: Okay. Did you want to add anything?
MR. TODD: With call volume and the fact that they are taking 911 calls,
inevitably the training to avoid the overtime does get broken up. So you can
probably expect the trailer to sit at a specific station for maybe up to two weeks as
we get each shift pulleyed through the training again, at which time it would
move to the next station and so on. And when you add 20 stations plus their
recruits and everything else, times two weeks each, we're close to the whole year.
And then by then we're right back on the circuit again.
MS. EVANS: Okay, my only last question is this will be for a year; volunteer
firefighters also? Please?
MR. TODD: So, currently, our volunteers don't make entry into the fire ground
as far as structural fire suppression, because we don't have them certified as
Firefighter 1's under NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) with SCBA
and everything else. So, in this particular case, while we wouldn't be against
them going through the training, it isn't necessary for their current workloads.
Different training for wildland and the support they give us there in terms of
shelters and other stuff and a variety of other stuff is mandated, and we push
forward on those areas. This particular type of training, not at this point.
MS. EVANS: Okay. Yes.
MR. SPRINGER: Council, can I also add one more thing? I forgot to mention
there is also unique opportunity for public education and outreach with this prop.
When we go out to the high schools, the bigger kids are old enough to actually go
through watered down evolutions on this trailer,just so they can feel what it's like
to be a firefighter and have to (inaudible) into the self-survival procedures. So I
think it would be good for our public relations.
MS. EVANS: Okay, thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. I'm not sure who was
first over here. Council Member Villegas, go ahead.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha. Thank you for the thorough explanation of the upsides
and all the different benefits to having equipment like this to utilize by the Fire
Department. I guess my question comes, as we're looking at these proposed
amendments, we've got upwards of almost half-a-million dollars in funding that's
being requested to be allocated to Fire outside of our Fund Balance. But it's my
understanding that, in the current budget, there was $1.2 million already budgeted
for equipment purchases. And so I guess I want to get a broader understanding of
how and why these things didn't make the cut or they aren't on the list to be paid
for by that$1.2 million that was already budgeted.
MR. TODD: Okay, so, in this particular case, the $1.2 million is specifically for a
line item for purchasing of fire trucks. Historically, about, I want to say 14 years
ago when Chief Rosario took over the helm, one of his big things was to have
lease purchasing of fire trucks and essentially being purchasing two new fire
trucks every year. At the time, fire trucks ran us around $450,000. So buying two
was approximately a million bucks. And then we'd lease purchase so that we'd
stabilize that fund over the years.
So the fund had originally started off as about a$1 million fund. By the time he
retired, that fund was about 1.4 million, and trucks were costing us around
$750,000 a year. Trucks now are approximately $1 million to $1.2 million a year,
and so the fund is actually sitting at 2.2 million, which gets us close to continuing
to purchase about two fire trucks a year. And that line item is sort of aimed at
basically those really expensive vehicles.
We actually have under auxiliary budget and other areas, they do have
equipment-budgeted funding for equipment or tools or other things, extrication
tools and a variety of other stuff. So it's not the only line item. That 1.2 million
was specific to help us basically go after and continue our fire truck and hazmat
trucks, rescue trucks, and our big purchases. And if you're wanting more detail, I
do have that document that we put together for our vehicle replacements, but I can
sit down with any County Council Member and go over kind of that plan.
MS. VILLEGAS: That's okay. I guess what's giving me heartburn here today is
I want to be able to provide everything that you need. I have friends and family in
first responders, and alwaysI mean, if you know me in my years of service, not
just on the Council but in life, that's always my true intention. And that's a
principle of mine and a value system. But the challenge here is this is half-a-
million dollars. It's like a wish list that is a beautiful thing, but if every
department had a Council Member put half-a-million dollars' worth of budget
amendments forward for each budget, we would be here until next year.
So I guess I am hoping for some prioritization of the number of requests here
because you guys know your equipment. You know your facility. You know
which things are absolutely critical and which things would be nice, right. But
when you have an opportunity and somebody says, "Tell me what you want, and
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
I'm going to put an amendment forward,"I mean that's a beautiful thing, but
unfortunately, I feel like it's putting me and potentially my colleagues in a bit of a
pickle because then we have to sit here and go, oh, gosh, how and why and which
ones. Yeah. So I'm just sharing that with you,person to person, that that's the
part that's really hard for me sitting here today.
And yeah, I know you have answers for, reasons for, explanations for, and valid
needs, but this is a little overwhelming in the depth and breadth of the asks. And
if we had another department doing the same thing, I mean I'm sure any
department could. So I just am sharing my challenge here and trying to figure out
the best way to navigate this budget and these amendments in order to get you
what you need at the top priority. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Council
Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Yeah,just a little bit and the same thing
because I didn't really say on the previous one. But I heard you say that you can
or you would be able to look at doing maybe not a brand new $60,000 shiny new
vehicle, but maybe a slightly used year-old model, something like that. I mean, is
that something that can be done in some of these circumstances,just because it is
adding on to the additional budget, especially? It does sound like this is a very
important thing and can save money in the long run. It's really good for training
and all that. But, once again, it's kind of like, you know, we don't want to be up
here going "You get an SUV and you get an SUV." We're not Oprah.
MR. TODD: Entirely understood. And understand to some extent, even that
1.2 million is influx. As I mentioned before, the purchasing of fire trucks takes
four years. So, even if we go out for bid, we're not a hundred percent sure how
that goes forward and whether we're able to spend it or not. This is sort of the
first year that the Finance Department has really taken us and supported us for this
really big purchasing of vehicles, but we're not sure that we can spend that
1.2 million. So, potentially, that could be reallocated in other areas, but one of the
things is fire trucks is one of our bigger issues right now. We took three used
trucks from Honolulu to keep our fleet running right now, because we are in kind
of dire straits.
And so one of the goals was to work with Finance this year to see if we could
work on our procurement system to just go out and buy a truck fully paid, as
opposed to leasing. And there is opportunity for that. So,potentially, that money
would go and we'd have a truck come months later, because every now and then,
there are opportunities for that. At the same time, if that doesn't become
available, then potentially that money doesn't get actually locked down for a
number of years. So, right now, it's a little bit weird in terms of that. We've been
working hard in meetings with the Finance Department, trying to figure out our
vehicle needs and where we go. Obviously, I do mention and I very much
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
appreciate every support that the County Council, the Mayor, and our Finance
Department has offered us. But it's a little hard right now because we're still
working out some of the finer details on where things go and how do we fund it,
and how long is it going to take for us to go out.
During my tenure as Fire Chief, we have yet to actually procure one of these
larger vehicles because of when our leases were expiring. So now we have the
funding. This would be the first year we have it, but I don't know that we'll be
able to spend it. So maybe that funding will be able to be reallocated to this,
maybe not. I don't really have a great answer for that. And I do understand the
position that the County Council's being placed at for this particular thing.
On the list of things, one of the ones I, on a minor note, was the $15,000 to buy
building supplies. It's kind of a big one because we burn a lot of materials just to
teach guys how to survive in the fire conditions. So that's a wonderful thing I
think was great. On the vehicles and everything else, we do have the 1.2 million,
and I don't know how that's going to work. So,potentially, that could fund some
of those vehicles. Potentially, we end up spending all of it on buying a fire truck
if that becomes an option but I don't know.
And, theoretically, if the Council is more amiable to waiting until later in the
fiscal year when we see the next round of taxes coming in and discussing it later,
that's always a potential as well. Internally, we've been very well-supported over
the last three years from when Deanna was the head of Finance, and now as Diane
is the head of Finance and has seen very large increases to our overall budget,
which has allowed us to focus on some very major issues.
Just this most recent amendment to the budget took our repair budget for the fire
stations up to three-quarters of a million dollars. Considering two years ago it
was $13,000 and everything was broken, it's just such a nice thing to have.
Chief Chadwick back there is salivating on all the garage doors he's going to
replace and generators we're going to fix, and systems that are going to be
repaired finally that have been, most of our career, been a problem. So there's a
lot of things we've already received, and we appreciate everything you're willing
to give. But, at the same time, we understand the nature of how we have to be
good partners with the other departments and share.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. All right. I do think that this training trailer is a really
good idea. I'll be supporting this but, yeah, I'm not—yeah, the rest we'll see.
Okay, thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I have one question. We just approved the purchase
of two new SUVs, so you'll have two used SUVs. Could you use one of them,
and so we could just buy you a new trailer but not an SUV?
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MR. TODD: That would be entirely acceptable. We could figure that out.
MS. EVANS: Okay, I would like to make an amendment. I don't know how you
would
CHR. KIMBALL: No, that's not what's before us. So we're voting on the
amendment that's before us. There's no opportunity to make a floor amendment.
MS. EVANS: Okay.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, with that, I want to go ahead and move forward with
the vote on this item. So the motion on the floor is to amend Bill 136, Draft 2,
with the contents of Communication 755.13. All those in favor, please say "aye."
Okay, I'm going to do a roll call on this one just for clarity.
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 755.13 failed by the following roll call vote:
Failed
Ayes: Council Members Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz,
and Lee Loy —3.
Noes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Villegas, and Chair Kimball—5.
Absent: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.14. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I was actually inspired to put this
particular amendment forward based on a series of FEMA (Federal Emergency
Management Agency) trainings that Council Chair Kimball put together for
County Council, County leadership last week on how we can be more proficient
as public officials in helping our communities to prepare for disasters, but also be
in a position to respond and also find ways to just increase overall resilience. And
so, worked with our Civil Defense Administrator and Mr. Barry Periatt, who is
here without his fedora, I will note for the record, to think through setting up a
resilience impact grant, a micro grant, that is available to a variety of community
partners by way of a $2,500 investment, in helping them to basically implement
resilience strategies that they've developed for their community.
We have a lot of community partners that have gone through the THIRA (Threat
and Hazard Identification and Risk Assessment)process and have identified ways
in which they can increase resiliency and preparedness in their community. So
things like investing in capability and capacity building; hazard mitigation, like
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buying chainsaws in the event that we have Albizias going down during a tropical
storm, ham radios, disaster kits for neighbors, catchment tanks, investing in CPR
(cardiopulmonary resuscitation) certification. We know that our community
members are very strong partners in doing this work, that it should not just rest on
the shoulders of government to ensure community is prepared. But we need to
make sure that we have resources available to empower our community members
to get prepared themselves. And so, would love to ask Mr. Periatt to come
forward.
(Note: At this time, Civil Defense Administrative Officer Barry Periatt
came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Let us know if you accept this kuleana that we are asking
you to take on. I know it's a lift and so we'll be working with the Finance
Department to make it a streamlined process for community members to be able
to apply for this. But thanks for being here and thanks for being patient.
MR. PERIATT: Thank you. I'm Barry Periatt with the Hawaii County Civil
Defense Agency. I've listened to you all talk about strategy and moving forward.
Three years ago we went to the Office of Management and laid out what we need
as far as personnel and programs, and that, moving forward, to be able to do what
we need to do for the community. The revision of Chapter 7 focused a lot on that.
So we put forth a strategy. So that's been the basis of the supplementals we put
forward in the budget, as far as personnel and different programs we want to do.
This year we didn't get any of our supplementals. That's okay. I mean, the
Director of Finance is absolutely correct. They talked with us and then they
racked and stacked, and we didn't come out—we weren't a priority this go-
around. We understand that. No issues with that.
This wasn't part of the supplementals. But part of the national preparedness goal
is developing resilient communities. And one of the best ways to go about doing
that is the community identifying what their needs are and then working to meet
those needs: getting what capability they need, what program they need in place
within that community. And you always get much better buy-in when it's the
actual community doing it. People—"This is what we want. This is what we
need. Here we go."
So will this put forward our goals in developing resilient communities across the
County? Yes, it does, even though it wasn't part of our supplementals. It will do
that. The only issue, and as I express that again, is our strategy calls for 33 staff
members. Currently, we have 12, okay. So we're doing-12 doing the work of
what 33 we think is what we need to get the job done. And so this adds an
additional burden onto those 12. As we told Finance at the beginning when we
requested our supplementals: "Yeah, if you don't give them to us, that's fine.
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We'll continue on. We're not going to have any degradation of services and
that's fine." This does that, increase the workload for certain individuals in our
department.
And will some things drop? Well, we haven't met all of our obligations to begin
with in Chapter 7. I'm sure you're aware of that. We haven't been in front of you
with "This is the plan," in sharing this stuff with you. So that is our only concern.
Does this amendment push forward what we think needs to be done in the County
of Hawaii as far as developing resilient communities? Yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Periatt. Finance Director Nakagawa?
Sorry to put you on the spot here. Is there some initial support that Finance can
provide Civil Defense? Should the Council adopt this amendment, could we
provide some back-end support to set up this program? And I'm just trying to
think through easy and quick implementation. And so perhaps it's a list of items
that the County is willing to purchase or support community members in doing. I
think that would perhaps kind of maybe expedite the process and make it at least a
little easier on everyone. Your thoughts?
MS. NAKAGAWA: Sure, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Thank you for the
question. Finance is always here to support all the departments. When it comes
to things like contractual training or procurement training, as we go through the
process, we do that quite often. And we'd be more than happy to assist Civil
Defense, or any other department, to walk through what that looks like. We've
been doing a lot more research on grants and process quite recently. And I think
that's something we can assist with as well when it comes to purchasing items, if
that's the case within these funds. That is also a procurement endeavor that we'd
be happy to walk through, as with anyone else. We're always there to support
when it comes to contract process, procurement, and training.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I appreciate that. Happy to answer any
questions folks might have, but looking for your support. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, who was first over here? All right, Council
Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha, Barry. Nice to see you again. That training was really
inciteful and it really reflected your level of expertise and understanding, and
connection to our island and our community. So thank you for serving in this
leadership role and for being there that day to be the speaker for our table.
Reading this amendment here, it indicates a new line item for resilience grants.
So is this money going to Civil Defense, for then Civil Defense to give money to
organizations?
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MR. PERIATT: Yes, it is. And it's a similar things like this had been done in
the past where Council money has been funneled through Civil Defense to help
meet needs in the community.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yup. Gotcha.
MR. PERIATT: So it's yes.
MS. VILLEGAS: I just wanted clarification. I guess, to me, what really just
comes to mind is Vibrant Hawaii and their utilization and creation and standing
up of resilience hubs and having received millions of dollars in County tax
money, especially during COVID, and the purchasing of a lot of the equipment
that was just mentioned here. And so I can't help but wonder: Wait a minute. If
that equipment was purchased and these resilience hubs were stood up and all that
still exists, I don't see this as an appropriate allocation of this money to give
grants to these organizations that have already received this money. And the
resources, if spent wisely and being managed, should still be there.
So that's my challenge on this, is I just see this becoming endless. It's just an
endless cycle. And so those are the things that are red flags to me, and I want to
make sure that we are—we're accountable for every penny to our constituents.
And so those are my concerns. So I won't be supporting this today, but I
appreciate you and all that you do and your leadership in keeping our County safe
and healthy.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Council Member
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Just to the maker. Given that
we have the new OSCER(Office of Sustainability, Climate, Equity, and
Resilience) department—yeah, maybe I missed that, I'm sorry, but why not
OSCER versus Civil Defense?
CHR. KIMBALL: You may respond, Council Member.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I hadn't thought about putting it in OSCER. It felt like a
natural partner with Civil Defense because they also do coordinate our CERT
teams, Community Emergency Response Teams, who happen to do a lot of work
in helping communities to prepare and respond to disasters. And this is really
about how we prepare for and respond to disasters. And I think that might be a
little bit outside of OSCER's explicit kuleana.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. To the department,just in my
general opinion, I don't see you guys doing a lot of grants. I've seen other
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
departments, Research and Development, a lot of them doing grant activities and
all the associated reporting and all the documentation. Are you guys prepared to
take that on?
MR. PERIATT: We do manage the Homeland Security Grant for the County of
Hawaii, and that's primarily focused on—it's a preparedness grant, which now
40 percent goes to law enforcement. The other 60 percent is broken out to
different projects: IT, sometimes Fire, sometimes us. Another 25,000 that's set
aside for the CERT program, not necessarily the CERT program. It's set aside for
the Citizen Corps program, which encompasses CERT, the Medical Reserve
Corps, and Neighborhood Watch. So we do manage that grant. We also manage
the Emergency Management Performance Grant. That's a grant which provides
funding for multiple things: for training, for personnel, primarily to enhance our
readiness and our preparedness. So, yes, we do manage grants and this would just
be another one.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Maybe I misunderstood. This would
be grants going out to nonprofits/small businesses, or this would be a
government-based grant?
MR. PERIATT: This will be going out to basically nonprofits because we're
looking at the community. The focus, as the amendment was written, I believe
was on Vibrant Hawaii and the hubs. However, we said, "Look, we have CERT
programs. We have a Citizen Corps."
Point of Order: MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I'm sorry. Just a point of order. This is not a Vibrant
Hawaii project. I want to make that very clear for the record that, yes, there is a
network of resilience hubs on our island, but"resilience" is a term that is used
nationally to ensure communities are prepared. And this may not necessarily just
be for nonprofits. This is something I don't think CERT teams or Neighborhood
Watch groups or nonprofits. We want to make sure that anybody that is in a
position to help our community to become prepared and resilient is able to access
some kind of funding or support. Thank you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Like I said. Nonprofits/small businesses
would be generally the recipients of this potential grant program.
MR. PERIATT: Well, the focus is on the community. So whatever organization
is operating in that community would be the focus.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then that's why I'm asking,
because right now I'm hearing we do the Homeland Security Grant. We are
taking in Homeland Federal money to do projects, or State money to do projects,
but more government-based. So when we look at a project like this, do you have
the bandwidth as a department to administer this to multiple organizations and
then have them do their reporting and everything else? The same thing we require
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
of any other organization. More so than, "Here, Fire go out and do this." "Here,
Police, go out and do this." This is government to government. This is more
government to private.
MR. PERIATT: Yeah, I understand your concern and we have the same concern,
because as I said, our capacity is what it is and it's not growing, and this is
another program. So, yes, it will take away some man hours from other things.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Barry.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. I do want
to note I did ask Administrator Morrison to join us on Zoom. So she is here. I
want to be respectful of her time because she is not on island. Go ahead, Council
Member Kagiwada. I did have a question for Morrison.
MS. KAGIWADA: I'll be pretty brief.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you and thank you for putting this forward. I do
understand the impetus, given the training we did, and it was really inspirational
training with a lot of us. And it got us thinking about this stuff even more than we
already were, but putting it right in front of us. So, understanding where it's
coming from. It does sound to me like staffing up in your office is really the thing
that we need to be focusing on for you guys right now, and that adding to your
plate is maybe not the best timing. So, because of that and because I'm hearing
from you that it might be very hard to—it could be challenging to administer
these, I think I'll vote "no" on this for now. But I'd like to see us continue to
think about coming back with something like this once you're feeling a little more
able, or possibly going with OSCER or something like that. But thank you and
thanks for all you do. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Anyone else? All
right, I wanted to just take this opportunity to ask if we have
Administrator Morrison on the call still. I saw her join in and I'm not sure if she's
there.
(Note: At this time, Interim Sustainability Administrator Bethany
Morrison, Office of Sustainability, Climate, Equity, and Resilience, came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MS. MORRISON: Yes, I'm here.
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay, great. Just to give you some context, I'm not sure if
you were tuned in, but we're discussing a $250,000 grant-making program. It's
proposed to be within Civil Defense. This would be to provide grants to
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community groups to provide localized resilience. And you were participating in
the TEEX(Texas A&M Engineering Extension Service) training we had last
week with FEMA. Let me just first say I love this idea. I think this was
something that was highlighted in the training as being really necessary, among
many other things which would also fall on Civil Defense's shoulders.
I mean, I think Council Member Villegas made the point. I was really heartened
to see there was a lot I learned in that training about what is being done and all
the excellent work you guys are doing. So, really appreciated that opportunity,
especially being in the EOC.
But wanted to ask Administrator Morrison, given what I'm describing, I have a
feeling that right now that would be a heavy lift, given that it's just you and
OSCER. But do you see this as a potential activity for OSCER to manage at
some point?
MS. MORRISON: Aloha, Council. Bethany Morrison, Interim Administrator for
Office of Sustainability, Climate, Equity, and Resilience. Thank you. Yeah, I've
been following the discussion a little bit, and I feel like just leaning in to where
we're trying to build the capacity of our communities to be resilient. I think I
totally agree with that. I think now is not the time for OSCER to try and manage
grants out to communities. We're really focusing on bringing in the Federal
dollars first as our priority, as far as our grant coordinating. And then some of
that could potentially lead to a program for our community granting, but I don't
think, at this point, we're ready to take that on.
CHR. KIMBALL: Great. Thank you for that response. I appreciate it. So,
Council Member Kierkiewicz, love this idea; not comfortable with putting it in
Civil Defense. I think I'd be more comfortable putting it in a department that is
already doing some form of grant making, and that would include R&D,
potentially even Planning with the grants that they were doing around recovery.
Or even within the Council itself. And also probably thinking we need some sort
of legislative guidance about what would constitute eligibility for the grants and
the eligible uses of these grants just based on some of the conversation I've heard
now.
My inclination is not to support this now, but I'd be willing to consider another
amendment that would put it in a location that already has grant-making activities.
I think one of the things I heard loud and clear with our training is that there are
some things that we need Civil Defense to be doing. And to add this on right now
I think is an additional burden, although I'm sure you guys could manage. But
there's a lot to do, and I realize you're already understaffed. So my thought.
That's my thought on this. Go ahead, Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, everyone, for the feedback. And, Barry,
thanks for being here and all your patience, and for your willingness to try
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something new and potentially stepping up to this challenge. It sounds like we
will not be getting support for this particular amendment as it's written, so I'll be
withdrawing and taking into consideration what folks have shared today, and
putting something else forward. Thank you, Chair.
Withdraw Motion Ms. Kierkiewicz withdrew her motion to amend Bill 136,
to Amend: Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 755.14.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. With that, we're
going to take a recess until 1:00. So the time is now 12:36. We will reconvene at
1:00 for this meeting of the Council. Thank you, everyone. We're in recess.
Recess: At 12:36 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 1:01 p.m.
Motion to Amend: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to amend Bill 136,
Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 755.22. Seconded by
Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair, and thank you for the
opportunity. This was an interesting project. I always did think of—well, let me
get to the point. This is for facility fencing for the Hilo Police Station. I have
always thought that that was probably the most secure place on our island, but in
speaking to some of the officers, I came to the realization that it's not. They have
people within the facility after hours. They have had damage to some of their
vehicles from the community. And just given some of the folks coming to the
department for assistance in the later hours of the evening and with different
aspects of the entire facility needing to be secure, the idea of fencing was
breached with me.
And so, in speaking with the Police Administration, with Chief Moszkowicz, and
Deputy Chief Mahuna, both of them agree this is something that they did want to
try and make happen this year for the department. They got a quote that came out
to a little bit shy of our estimate here, and I wanted to see if we could get this in
the budget for our department. So, with that, questions from the Council? And
then he was online earlier. There he is.
(Note: At this time, Police Chief Benjamin Moszkowicz came forward to
address the members of the Council.)
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Nice shirt today, Chief.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: Thank you. I wanted to make sure everybody could see
me.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We can see you. Could you give us a little
background and then maybe,just from your lens, why this is important for the
department?
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: You hit the nail on the head. Is it a need to have? No. Is
it a would be really great to have? Yes. And it's not something that we or our
Administration has even considered as we were sorting through the list of
priorities that we had. But you're absolutely correct. We have, in the last couple
months, seen an uptick in people kind of cutting the corner, so to speak, of
Hualalai and Kapiolani, and kind of wondering through the parking lot.
If it's just people wondering through the parking lot, it's not a big deal, but we
also have had vehicles get damaged. And there has been some people who have
found their way into our buildings after hours, which is a big concern for us. So,
part of it is fencing. Will fencing prevent people from walking around the fence
or climbing over the fence? No. But from a legal standpoint, it establishes a real
clear perimeter that we can sign and label as an area that people are expected to
keep out of it. If we find them in there, it allows us to take action and move them
or have them arrested for trespassing.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chief. I really appreciate that.
This is a request from different officers that I've come to hear this from, and then
also to hear your support for this. And again, I mean, it's not a screaming
priority, but we do have some public safety issues. And then the interesting thing
about this was we have damage to our police vehicle, but it was also expressed
that when someone comes to the department in need of help or to file a claim or to
request assistance from the department at different hours of the day, which can be
in the evening, you know, as things are happening in people's lives, that this
needs to be more of a secure area so people feel secure from potentially someone
who is attacking them who has been stalking them, those kinds of things. And
we're creating that security for public but also security for our officers. So, to me,
a real dual-purpose project for the department.
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: Absolutely.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Awesome. Thank you for working with me
on this. I appreciate it. And then to the Council Members, any questions, I'm
willing to help with or the Administration. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Council
Member Kagiwada.
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MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Interesting bringing this forward, and interesting
what you were just saying, Council Member. It just made me think, if there was
secure fencing around it, would it prohibit somebody who was trying to come get
help potentially, immediately having access? Is there going to be—what's
envisioned for controlling the access to the property?
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: The vision is not to just put a ten-foot high chain-link
fence with barbed wire around the entire perimeter of the facility. That's not what
we're looking for. But there are certain areas to the parking lot and the facility
and the (inaudible)we want to keep off limits. That being said, that fencing could
probably, in excluding people from certain areas, help to direct them more
towards the areas where public services are available.
In the front of the station area, we have the Chief's office and our Records
Division and Driver's Licensing. Or the cellblock area, we do have a public
parking lot. So that area would be open for people to come in and park. But it
would be easier to direct them and it probably wouldI'm thinking of how we
would design and build it. It would almost be a little bit more logical for people
to go to that area because the other areas—it would prevent them from wondering
around in areas where they're not really supposed to be anyway, and direct them
to the areas where we do want them to come for help.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. That makes a lot of sense to me. In general, I don't
like to see more chain-link fences going up in our community, especially around
our public buildings. But I understood that you're talking mainly about fencing
off your parking area where your vehicles are parked. So I understand that. This
was not on your supplements list, is that what you said?
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: That's correct.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. It's not a nothing amount of money. So, yeah, I'm
going to think about it. I do understand what you're saying and understand that it
could possibly be helpful for the station. Let me ask you one other thing. What's
your situation on cameras? Do you have cameras in the parking area?
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: We don't have any cameras in the parking area. And I
agree with you a hundred percent. The last thing I want to do as a chief who is
very open to public input and public service and collaboration is to design a
structure around our station that makes it not look anything like we want people to
come in and that they're welcome. It's just that there are certain areas, like you
said, that we want to keep people away from.
We do not have a lot of public safety building cameras, external. That's
something that we worked with Public Works on. We're in the midst of
designing for a new kind of conference area and mitigation project out in our
foyer. And that's something we've been advised to wrap the funding for into kind
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of more of a capital improvement project kind of design, as opposed to just going
one off and buying some external security cameras. But then it's also (inaudible).
MS. KAGIWADA: Is that something we could include, some cameras for the
parking area and the area that you're concerned about right now? Could that be
included in that project?
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: Absolutely. Based on the time line that we've had from
when Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder brought this up till today, for us to
even go out and find a vendor who's even willing to give us a very rough
estimate, my guess is that we probably would fill the whole budget of that
anyway. I just don't know because we've only been able to really get one vendor
to come give us a very rough estimate. So in terms of like that being the exact
amount, as opposed to having more funding leftover even in that$300,000
allotment to spend on security cameras to enhance security, that's also a
possibility.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. I'm going to think about this. I think security
cameras might be a better way to go, and especially rolling it into a bigger project
than the chain-link fencing. But thank you for your answers, and it does help me
understand a little bit better the project. Thank you for bringing this forward.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Council
Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Chair. Thanks, Chief Ben, for being here. Definitely in
support of this, but I also recognize that the department itself needs a lot of help.
And so I'm willing to support this and see where it lands, or maybe security
cameras. But I think we need to seriously look at a large CIP project for the
department and that police station itself. If this helps in the interim and we can
look at bigger goals of rehabilitating theI think the elevator's out. The front
foyer is out. There's areas that leak.
Would be wonderful to rehabilitate all of the air conditioning in that facility. And
that's where that needs assessment and some of the other work that I think we
have where the CIP coordinator could be incredibly helpful. With that being said,
in support. If this helps you guys get to the next step, I'm in support of that, but
kind of looking around the corner for the bigger project and the big renovation
that the station needs.
And if I could suggest, I know that we have our memorial wall at the department,
at the station, and I would love to see that remain open for a lot of those who go to
visit that wall for our fallen officers. So thank you, Chief.
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: Absolutely. I agree a hundred percent. Thank you.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Anyone else? All
right, seeing none, I'll just briefly stateI see this as a"nice to have" and not a
"need to have," so I'm not going to be supporting it. But I think that there's
potentiallyI'd like to ask the department to review potential solutions that
involve either the cameras or landscaping. I think Council Member Lee Loy's
right; there's a larger CIP project for the Hilo station. But I think I'd like to see a
little more thought about design and site design before moving forward with this.
Not to say I wouldn't potentially support it later, but I feel like it hasn't been fully
vetted. Thanks for bringing it forward, though, Council Member. With that, I
will ask yes, go ahead.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I appreciate the conversation today. Just
one last helpful comment. This really was officer-driven. I like to talk directly to
the staff in the departments and then work with the Administration to see if there
is a want. And that's where this came from. I say that just for the body's
decision-making process. But also, I love talking to the staff members because
you really get a feel for what's needed in the department. And sometimes it
doesn't get all the way up to us, like we spoke about earlier with somebody else.
But when we get supplementals, that is the end result of everything that's bubbled
up to the surface and gotten to finally the administrative level, to Finance, and
then to us. And sometimes we're looking—we've got to get a little bit more
down in the weeds to understand what's actually wanted by some of the hard-
working personnel that we don't interface with every day. And that's really
where this originated.
If it goes, it goes. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Chief, I do appreciate your words
today. Very helpful. Hoping to get this done for the department so we can keep
everybody in that department safe and happy, including the public. Thank you,
Chair, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, thank you. I'll ask for—Mr. Clerk, can we get a roll
call on this one,please?
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 755.22 failed by the following roll call vote:
Failed
Ayes: Council Members Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
and Lee Loy –2.
Noes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball –7.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
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Motion to Amend: Ms. Lee Loy moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with the
contents of Comm. 755.23. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks. Chair. This one feels like I'm going to be punching up
in my weight class, but I'm going to try and maybe even ask for some senioritis
pity. There's two departments that make money for the County. One is Real
Property Tax and the other is Building Division. Building Division approves
plans, permits, which turns into assets which increases our tax revenue. And to
get there, we need our inspectors to go out and inspect all of these properties with
new assets so we can increase our revenue base.
This particular request was actually part of their supplemental, and it was
Priority 8. And if I could call forward Gary, Julann, or maybe even Kelsey, to
describe the conditions of the vehicles that they currently have in Building
Division, and specifically Inspections. I think they have a total of 14 vehicles
oh, why don't you share, Director Pause.
MR. PAUSE: I know you wanted Kelsey but I'll start. Steve Pause, Director of
Public Works. Presently, we have 28 vehicles. We have 36 inspector positions,
of which 30 are presently filled. The oldest vehicle on the fleet are some vintage
1997 F-150s that we've got either two or three of those. But, generally speaking,
we have a number of vehicles that are over 200,000 miles. It appears, in kind of
looking at things, that a lot of them are vintage '05-'08. And it was a period of
time which, best estimate was between 2008 and 2014, no vehicles were
purchased.
I think when I came before the body last time talking about the budget, I believe
we talked about ideally we'd get ourselves onto a position where we're replacing
maybe three vehicles a year. So, 28 well, I was basing it on 21 originally. But
every seven years. So maybe it's four vehicles. Above every seven years is what
you'd want to do. So the request is really around being able to, as you say, allow
a bit more reliability for our vehicles to let the inspectors get out and do their jobs.
So Gary can maybe comment from an on-the-ground level.
(Note: At this time, Supervising Electrical Inspector Gary
Kaho`ohanohano, Public Works Department, came forward to address the
members of the Council.)
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: Hi, my name is Gary Kaho`ohanohano with the
Building Division, representing the inspectors of the County of Hawaii.
Anyway, to add to what Steve said, he talked about older cars. Let's talk about
the newer cars. The newer cars, right now, are running 200,000-plus miles on
them and they're breaking down. They're breaking down. Each time our
inspectors go out towards the south side, towards Waimea, Kohala, we're actually
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putting them in cars that's maybe not so safe anymore with that type of mileage.
They use it as a tool every day to provide services to our community, the
contractors, the public. And they do their safety thing out there. We just need
more dependable cars because they're high mileage. If you want to add more to
that, Steve?
MR. PAUSE: No. I think it's well-said. So thank you.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, fellas, for being here.
Their original supplemental request was for $840,000. And I felt that this
number, the $300,000, could at least get them started with replacing some of the
older vehicles. And, Steve, if we could get them into more of a changing out of
the older vehicles, I think this is a great way to kickstart them. I also recognize
that Highways Division often gives our inspectors their hand-me-down cars.
But I feel like no good deed goes unpunished, because when I challenged the
department to move the needle on miles of road paved from 20 to where we are at
36 now, they did it but they had to take those highway dollars and invest in the
paving equipment to maintain that. And so, normally, when we do have monies
from Highways for them to purchase new vehicles for them to get down into the
inspectors, that's not going to happen this next fiscal year because of the
investment and the commitment we made to paving road miles.
And so, I know this body knows I like to scrap, but this is really me just humbly
pleading. Let's get them five new vehicles. They're willing to do used; yes,
Gary?
MR. PAUSE: So, yes, thanks for bringing that up, Council Member Lee Loy.
We're in a unique position because, as you know, Randy Riley, the head of our
Auto Division, has relationships with everybody on-island when it comes to
vehicles. So I think we're positioned well to look for those deals, if you will, on
used low-mileage vehicles so that we can potentially take what you're providing
today, or if the Council chooses to provide that funding and maybe stretch it into a
little better than six vehicles. So that's a real opportunity I think we have because
of Randy's presence and his relationships.
MS. LEE LOY: Great. Thanks, Steve. I just did simple math. Everybody else
was landing around $60,000 a vehicle, five vehicles, which was half of what their
request was—actually less than half—and just came up with the $300,000. But
Kelsey's reviewed this and I just want to point out this particular line item is
actually zero, right, budgeted for this year. And so if I could ask my colleagues to
help this one department out, and hopefully get them into a maintenance schedule
that gets them some new vehicles.
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MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Hi. I just wanted to add that if you guys do pass this
amendment, I will make it one of my priorities to make sure that the maintenance
and, you know, Steve's idea of replacing vehicles every year versus letting them
kind of wear over all the years, I'll make it one of my priorities to make sure that
the division stays on top of that with the vehicles and updating our fleet.
I also wanted to add, like our building inspectors, one thing I noticed when I
started at Public Works is they come in in the mornings and I don't see them till
the end of the day. So these vehicles serve as their office. They're on the road.
They're dealing with consultants, contractors. If they need a moment of privacy,
if they need to hop on a laptop or have a conversation with their supervisors, these
vehicles do serve as their office. They use it for multipurpose duties. So I just
wanted to add that in.
MS. LEE LOY: Great. Thanks. Thanks, friends. Humbly asking for my fellow
colleagues' support. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Anyone else on this
one? Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thanks. So I just—to understand, you had a plan to maybe
start replacing vehicles and you said, I think, four per year. What happened with
the plan?
MR. PAUSE: I'm sorry. There was no plan. When we sat down and we said,
"How did we get into this predicament," if you look at the data, you can see there
were long stretches where no replacement vehicles were purchased. And that
whole seven-year thing, that came out of conversations with Randy. And just
generally speaking in terms of turnover of vehicles and, I'm not the accountant,
but fully depreciating them and getting the value out of them, along with the
number of miles. Some (inaudible) are quite excessive that go on. So I guess I'm
suggesting that our plan going forward, and Kelsey I think spoke to that as well, is
that that seven-year-or-so time frame and then take the big hurt out of buying six,
ten, whatever vehicles all at once and then get us onto a regular rotation.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, great. And then I heard you mention F-150s. Is that
the kind of vehicle that you're looking at here?
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: No. I mean, we're going to
MR. PAUSE: I mean, generally speaking, it's SUVs.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yeah, SUVs.
MR. PAUSE: It's that Ford Explorer-type SUV. It allows for four-wheel drive
because there are areas of the island that require that. But, yeah, that's the
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generalI think we've also in the past purchased a few Ford Rangers, which
were smaller utility-type trucks. But, no, the F-150's a 1997. They could have
been handed down from Highways or Engineering or somebody. Just like I know
we've got a couple of 2015 Dodge Ram trucks that I know were handed down
from Engineering.
MS. KAGIWADA: I see.
MR. PAUSE: So the inspectors don't need big, heavy duty trucks.
MS. KAGIWADA: Are they hauling things or equipment or anything?
MR. PAUSE: Their iPads.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yeah (inaudible).
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. I'm just wondering why they need such big,
expensive cars.
MR. PAUSE: Yeah (inaudible).
MS. KAGIWADA: Do all the inspectors go to all the different places on the
island? I guess I'm wondering, could some do with regular cars because that's
what their general range of where they go goes to?
MR. PAUSE: I think, generally speaking, you're absolutely right. Not everybody
goes to the rougher four-wheel drive necessary places. But we do rotate
inspectors, so we try to have them not the same inspector. If you put an
inspector in a vehicle, then they may be going sometimes to places that don't
require four-wheel and sometimes they would. So I think it's just probably more
of an ounce of prevention to be able to have a vehicle that is multifaceted. It rains
here. It gets muddy.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. I'm thinking we also have our new OSCER
department. I mean, yeah, when I think of putting a lot of miles and not
necessarily needing big things when you have one person and a laptop in there,
I'm just wondering if there could be any thought to—and I don't know if it works
that every inspector gets their own car or if people come in and check out the car
they need for that day. I don't know how it works. It's just something I'm
throwing out there, is the possibility. It's not the way things have been done. I
realize people have always had trucks and that's very much a cultural thing here,
too, but if it's not needed and if it's a way to reduce our footprint, would like
some consideration around that.
MR. PAUSE: Yes, we can definitely consider that. And like I said, if we're
provided a little bit of latitude, I'm sure that we can go out and stretch the funding
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to maximize its use. But, at the same time, I think your comments about carbon
footprint and those sorts of things, you led with "Do we really need to buy big
trucks," and the answer is no.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yeah, we don't. Yeah.
MR. PAUSE: But we can certainly take another look at what our particular needs
are, and maybe look at fuel efficiency.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: And the F-150s, I mean we have a few, but primarily, the
ones that are at Automotive Division now and the ones that are currently
decommissioned are, I wouldn't say "heavy-duty trucks." It's more like
Explorers, Chevy Blazers, some jeeps. So we definitely don't need like a"truck"
truck, but maybe Gary can kind of
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: Yeah, no, I second that because we're not hauling
anything. So SUVs, four-wheel drives would be perfect. I did hear you say in
town there is—most of the construction sites, they're not fully paved or concrete.
You know what I mean? And to get in and out, sometimes we do need four-
wheel drives.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. There are cars that are four-wheel drive also that are
not SUVs.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's what—main thing we've
got the four-wheel drives, we're fine with that. We're not asking for trucks.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Just some consideration. I'll be supporting this
although I really like the idea of the planning ahead and rotating and doing four
cars at a time. That makes a lot of sense. It sounds like it's been deferred quite a
lot for this department so I'll be supporting. Thank you.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. So I'm curious. Will there be one at each—in Kona
they'll be parked in Kona and parked in Hilo, and then you go and check them out
for the day or for the week? Or is it like you're going to take it home? Drive it
home? How do you use the vehicle?
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: So, basically, we pick it up from the area that
you're assigned to work, East or West Hawaii. The guys jump in their cars and
they're assigned to certain TMKs, tax map keys. That's how they do their work,
yeah.
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MS. EVANS: They don't have it for a week. They just come they pick it up
and—okay. That's good to know.
And the other thing is there's some great cars out there that are four-wheel drive
that I would like to see how much miles per gallon is a goal that you're trying to
achieve, too, because some of these cars are 20 miles a gallon, where you can get
other ones at 30-35. It would be great to see you get off those old gas guzzlers,
old cars that you're maintaining, and spending the money into some really good
ones. But I agree; I don't know if you need to go SUV. I agree that the four-
wheel drive makes sense.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: Yeah. So I believe today's car is more economy,
you know, efficient. So, if we purchase new cars, I mean we'll probably get the
efficiency that you're talking about.
MS. EVANS: Yeah. I'm just thinking more along the line there's Subaru
Outbacks. There's other vehicles that might get you what you want, which is
four-wheel drive.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: And that's definitely something we can look at when
we're doing the specs (specifications). We can make it a part of our specs, have
the guys do the research and definitely affect theI know that's where the
County is trying to go. We're in full support of that. So something that we'll
keep in mind.
MS. EVANS: And it would be nice to get a report back on what you bought if
this passes. Thank you.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Noted.
MS. EVANS: I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, anyone else? Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure,just a quick question. Are there a number of vehicles
that you already have in mind for this 300,000?
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: If it's a new vehicle, we're thinking maybe about six.
New vehicles are so expensive. But, of course, with our discussions about
looking into fuel efficiency and maybe not needing the SUV type of vehicle, we
could maybe purchase more. If we go the used-vehicle route, I would say we
could purchase a little more, maybe likeI don't know, Steve. What do you
think?
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MR. PAUSE: I think that the 300 is based on 6-I'm sorry, 5 at 60, which I think
I heard testimony earlier from the other departments. That's kind of like the plug
number for an SUV.
Council Member Evans brought up other opportunities, and I'm sitting here
thinking "I think everybody I know that works for Water Supply drives a Subaru,
and they're four-wheel drives." So, yeah, there's definitely an opportunity for us
to take a closer look at fuel efficiency. We want to have a work vehicle that
would allow the inspector to get to and from the site. And then, as Gary
mentioned, a lot of them will not be paved and it might be a little bit rough. So I
think all of that can be considered, and we're more than happy to report back out
to the Council. Thanks.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Director Pause.
CHR. KIMBALL: Anyone else? All right, all those in favor of amending
Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of Communication 755.23, please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 755.23 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Kimball—8.
Noes: Council Member Inaba— 1.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Thank you very much. Thank you.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.15. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. This amendment is related to the
purchase of additional building construction materials. I'd like to call up our
Training Battalion Chief Patrick Springer. There's a lot of training prop
construction that's necessary for essential training exercises that our fire
personnel go through so that they can operate with excellence. But I'll turn it
over to the expert to explain this ask. Chief Springer.
MR. SPRINGER: Good afternoon, everybody. Battalion Chief Patrick Springer
again from HFD Training. So the line item increase of$15,000 is for lumber and
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building construction materials. What we're trying to do is build a whole
assortment of props. Firefighters alone at the basic level have a hundred basic
skills that they need to master in order to get certified at the recruit level.
So, first of all, we would use the equipment for the recruit program. Second of
all, what we're trying to do is build out a company-level training program. I was
up here earlier talking about a mobile training trailer. We're also looking at
mobile training props. Again, the intent is to save money and be fiscally
responsible by delivering whatever training we can at the fire stations so that the
guys are not incurring overtime, but they're putting in the work to make sure
they're able to do their job and get home safety to their families.
So a few examples of what this will allow us to build is a forceable entry prop,
which will allow us to gain entry to fortified buildings. They'll allow vertical
ventilation training, which removes hot fire gases from structures, increasing the
life safety profile of people inside. It also allows us to build rapid intervention
training props, which basically means firefighter rescue. We were talking about
firefighter self-survival earlier. With rapid intervention, we're talking about if the
firefighter's unable to self-rescue, training our personnel how to go in and get our
downed firefighter.
Those skills would have to be executed under the most hostile of conditions with
the whole emotional component attached to it, of really, that's your brother or
sister in there. I can think of no worse day than if I get the Mayday call. And if
I'm outside, I want every firefighter to be ready and to be prepared to go and get
our brother or sister.
So those are a few examples of what the materials are for. The lumber costs are
getting higher and higher every year. But we want to focus on delivering high
quality to our personnel so that they can be effective when they're out there on the
street. This also ties in to professional certification and standards. We're
certifying all our Fire recruits to the national standard at the Pro Board level
Firefighter I and Firefighter II.
What this gets is it ensures us, as a public, that each firefighter meets all the basic
fire competencies as required by the National Fire Protection Association. So
we're trying to be cost effective. We're not spending money on custom props,
shipping them from the Mainland. We're going to build everything ourselves.
There's a little bit of sweat equity in there. It's got to be built by firefighters
because we know what the intent of the prop is.
We get that savings there and we also get exactly what we want. We can build it
to how we want. And also, certain stations might have different designs. It might
be different-sized dimensions that we have to work with. And the vision for this,
whether we tow the props to the station and rotate around the island is one way
we can get around this, or one way we can accomplish this.
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The other thing we can do is build props that stay at a station for a month or two,
and then we move them. A little bit slower. But that allows the personnel to
really get the reps in. So we go out. We conduct the training to a basic level.
The personnel would have it for about a month, and then my staff would go out
and see: "Eh, where are you guys at? What do you guys want to learn now?
What's the next step?" So we get that kind of training progression going. We're
trying to build competency first, then proficiency and mastery for our personnel.
So, yeah, that's a little background on that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chief, for being here. I love the idea of not
just the sweat equity, but the team building that will occur by the development of
the props. And I'm just releasing that this would be a great investment in our
training infrastructure and enhance firefighters' capabilities. So just looking for
everyone's support. Thank you.
MR. SPRINGER: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else on
this amendment? Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah. I love the ingenuity and can-do attitude, and preparing
our firefighters for any and all circumstances. I just have a quick question
because it's something that came up when Director of DEM was talking earlier
about construction waste in our landfills, and I wondered if there had been—at
first when it said "construction materials expense for training exercises," I
immediately went to burning, right, but thank you for explaining it's for making
props.
So I wondered if there might be opportunity for connecting and collaborating with
different construction companies to utilize some of their so much extra, right, in
the construction industry. I know it might be a pain in the butt, but I just was
thinking of how do we utilize resources that are already there that might end up
costing us money going into landfill to provide resources for you guys to utilize.
MR. SPRINGER: I think that's a great idea, and it's something that we've been
pursuing already. So we've actually worked with a few contractors to kind of get
what we need based upon what they have. We've also used basically condemned
lumber from PTA's military training to build out other stuff. If it's something
that we're burning, it has to meet certain size requirements and certain
specifications. It can't be treated lumber, for example. It's got to be untreated
OSB (Oriented Strand Board). But there is an opportunity to, like, force-of-entry
doors, we actually break a lot of wood for that. That's what we're always hunting
around for, looking for scraps and things like that.
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For new prop construction, it depends again on what we get. We already have the
recruits, like, downsizing/ripping oversized lumber down to whatever we want,
two-by-fours, four-by-fours, whatever they have. And we stockpile whatever we
have, trying to be effective with the use of funds.
MS. VILLEGAS: Fantastic. And then there's a great organization: Re-use
Hawaii. They disassemble structures and buildings and sell off the materials to
be upcycled in other building projects. There just might be some opportunity for
connectivity there to provide you some of the resources that you might be looking
for.
MR. SPRINGER: Can you say what that is again?
MS. VILLEGAS: Re-use Hawaii.
MR. SPRINGER: Re-use Hawaii? Okay.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah. Quinn.
MR. SPRINGER: Yeah, Re-use Hawaii. We'll look into that. I know there's
Habitat for Humanity too.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, Habitat for Humanity as well. All right.
MR. SPRINGER: Thank you.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Just briefly. In support of this. It sounds
like I heard the Chief earlier say that this was kind of one of the top things that
they wanted to get funded. So, understand that this could be helpful and yeah.
And maybe once OSCER gets up and running, they can also help you with
looking at more efficient and less wasteful ways to use some of these materials.
So, going forward, obviously they're not set up yet and you need to get these
materials and start your training. So, happy to support at this time.
MR. SPRINGER: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, anyone else? Seeing none, all those in favor of
amending Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of Communication 755.15, say
Ic aye.
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Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 755.15 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Kimball—8.
Noes: Council Member Inaba— 1.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.16. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. This is related to training and
certification for, I can't remember what NIMS stands for. Chief Springer, what
do ?
MR. SPRINGER: That would be National Incident Management System.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes. That is to ensure that our personnel are trained up in
this particular area. There are a couple of phases for this particular program
investment, including interactive learning modules where there's some training
online. And then also the certification of folks within the department so that they
can essentially train some of their colleagues going forward. Do you want to talk
a little bit about the importance of seeing management incident command
training? You can use some of the prime examples of some wildfires that we've
had here on our island and how this kind of training could have supported our
department in deploying its resources. And again,thinking about the future
ahead, making sure that we invest in our personnel.
MR. SPRINGER: Yeah, well, I think this is a great investment in the future for
our personnel. To me, when I think about this training program, the term
"succession planning" comes into mind. We've gone so long without a uniform,
consistent method of incident management training for our personnel that our
personnel, basically they've taken online modules of training as required by the
Federal Government. They've also attended classes that we've put on.
But what this training represents is a standardized system that we will use
departmentwide, 350 personnel, 20 fire stations, right, every single company
officer speaking the same language, using the same risk assessment models to
make true risk-based decisions on how they're going to proceed in setting their
strategic and tactical objectives. How they're going to attack an incident. What
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this program also teaches our incident commanders—and don't take these words
in the wrong context—but it's for them to be hostile, agile, and mobile when
they're attacking these emergencies head-on.
This program specifically focuses on the initial phase of an incident. This is
where it kind of digresses from the incident management system. It's still
compliant. The gap that is in the National Incident Management System, it takes
a long time to stand up, to fill all the paperwork. You'll notice from our
managing wildfires, everything is chaos for the first operational period if things
are going south. By the second operational period of 12 hours, things are starting
to come together.
What this addresses is that acute phase when things are going wrong. Basically, if
it's a fire, we punch this thing in the throat, and we knock it out and we're done.
This isn't a multi-million dollar day thing where we're paying all of these people
to come in from all the different agencies over time, and those (inaudible) and all
that. This is trying to get a problem solved as quickly as possible with the least
possible danger to life in the community. Did I answer your question?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Very much so. I mean, what really stood out to me was
that there really isn't a standard sort of training program and that concerns me. I
think it's important that we all sort of sing from the same song sheet, especially
when it comes to these sort of incidents because we can—with climate change
and just kind of seeing how things are happening globally, we can expect for
more of these natural disasters to be hitting. So it would be great if all of our
personnel had, as you say, a standardized training program. Thank you.
MR. SPRINGER: Yeah. And the roots of this program comes from California.
Our busier departments, the lead instructors from Sacramento City Fire. This
program is being utilized by Oklahoma City, by Fresno, by Seattle. A lot of big
departments. LA (Los Angeles) City. These guys are doing a great job at filling
this gap for us as far as training is concerned, and they are well-seasoned, well-
known throughout the country. I really would like to be able to provide this top-
tier training opportunity for our personnel so they can serve the community.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chief Springer. And I just wanted to point out
for my colleagues our guiding framework of our Charter, that within the Hawaii
Fire Department it says that appropriate training shall be provided to the
maximum extent possible. And I think that's really important, because when we
think about how we guard against risks and liabilities, I would hate to be in a
situation where lives could have been saved but perhaps the right training and
equipment was not possible. So just, again, trying to make sure that everyone is
protected, we're thinking about the safety of our personnel, the safety of our
community, and that we are doing everything that we can to ensure that folks
have their resources. I yield.
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MR. SPRINGER: Thanks. And in line with your comment, Council Kierkiewicz,
just so everybody knows this isn't just about fire. This is about All-Hazards
Incident Management. So we're talking residential, multi-family, commercial,
high-rise fires, wildland fires, hazardous materials, rescue operations, active
shooter. This is a high priority for us because it resonates across the board. It's
about effective incident management and control of resources.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right. Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thanks for being here. I know my colleagues have
expressed some concerns about some of the dollars that are going to Fire and have
voted down a number of amendments. I'm going to share a story with you that I
learned at my WIR (Western Interstate Region) conference when it relates to fire-
wise and what Officer Spencer [sic] is talking about right now. All of our
Western Interstate Region states are moving towards this model. And so, for us to
get on board, like he mentioned our partners in Fresno, in California, who have
had so many critical incidences I think is a good fit, and we need to stand ready.
But what they're learning in our Western Interstate Regions is if we can do this
work that Officer Spencer is speaking of right now, it helps dial back the impact
of insurance companies backing out when it comes to critical incidences and fire
response. So, if I could urge my colleagues to think about this as a preventative
way to make sure we can keep insurance costs low for property owners with this
training, this is a great investment and a circle of impact that all of our Western
Interstate Region counties are telling us to guard against. I'm going to be in full
support of this and urge my colleagues to think a little bit beyond how it impacts
our budget, but how this could actually translate to cost savings for our local
families. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Council
Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I have a quick question and I'm not sure if it's Deanna or
Diana [sic] who would want to answer this. But it has to do with when I see
salary and wages here, it's my understanding that the overall bargaining
agreements for Fire are done at the State level. So I wondered why this particular
piece wasn't handled on that side of things, as opposed to coming not—then my
next question would be, why wasn't it included in the budget to begin with, but
kind of how it ends up in front of us.
MS. SAKO: He can explain as well, but it's just this is the overtime piece related
to this training. So it would be paid in accordance with the collective bargaining
unit contract. But you guys would, whether they're going away to training or
bringing a trainer here, it woulda lot of the training for the Fire Department has
to be done when they're on overtime to not reduce the staffing at the stations.
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MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Why wasn't it included in the budget to begin with? I
mean, this sounds like something
MS. SAKO: Some overtime was included. You'd have to ask the Chief how they
calculated that.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. And then Fire Training OCE (Other Current Expenses),
Miscellaneous Contract Services by $129,060 for Scene Management training. Is
that paying somebody to come and do the training?
MR. SPRINGER: The training is a fee to bring instructors down here. The idea
is we do a"train the trainer" approach. We bring the subject-matter experts down
here for a week, and they train up our instructors. And they then deliver the
training to our personnel. And the only reason I put the overtime on my
supplementals is because I send mine up the chain of command, and it's always
an important consideration for the Chief because he's looking at overtime for
everybody, and I just want to capture what my program is. I know it's a really big
number, but we do have the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) we've got
to abide by as well as the FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act).
MS. VILLEGAS: Fire lifesaving administration?
MR. SPRINGER: Federal standards and labor act.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, gotcha. Yeah.
MR. SPRINGER: So we do have to compensate them. And this particular
training, it's a 40-hour workshop and it's all hands-on evolutions. They do one
day in the class but everything else is all hands-on. It's actually coordinating
actual fire trucks and fire companies in simulated fire conditions and basically
being the conductor of a symphony as incident commander.
MS. VILLEGAS: In a 21" Century scenario training opportunity.
MR. SPRINGER: Yes.
MS. VILLEGAS: All right. I'm sorry to make you guys juggle around. My
question would be to Chief Todd, why wasn't this included in the budget to begin
with?
MR. TODD: Just FYI (for your information), I did mention earlier about the
(inaudible)replacement. So (inaudible).
MS. VILLEGAS: Look at you. Overachiever.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MR. TODD: It was in our supplementals, and this is one of two major systems
that are out there, which we evaluated. I would say "we,"but I mean my battalion
chief evaluated. The person who put this together is Anthony Kastros. He's well-
regarded in the field. I've met him multiple times. He's an amazing guy. I
looked at the program. It is definitely some amazing training. So we had put it in
there. We do have overtime in our budget, but that is basically to man our
stations and apply for staffing there. And this is basically one year to bring
everyone up to that point, and it's just to bring everyone in for a one-week class.
It requires us to sit down with the union, bring them off of 56-hour, get an
agreement for every person, and they've got to get paid. So, yeah, it's expensive.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yup. Yeah, I see this training. And, as was mentioned before,
as we continue to navigate a time frame where climate change and global
warming is throwing much bigger and badder and more violent and destructive
natural disasters, that it is imperative for our first responders to be trained with the
best technology possible. So I will be supporting this today on the basis of what
you've shared about what this will do for the Fire Department and, therefore, in
service to our community and ideally circling back to be preventative for
insurance challenges that we already face. Yeah. But I've just got to be honest. I
can go with this one, but there's a long list. Yeah. Thanks. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. My biggest surprise is that it wasn't included in the
budget. Being someone that witnessed the August 8h fire and seeing how you
have to stand up Incident Command to really be on top of it, call in your volunteer
firefighters, work with the Police and road closure. I mean, it just goes on and on.
But the bigger question for me is there was the—State Legislature had a working
group that put out a lot of recommendations. And Lahaina, they put together a
task force, and I think you were involved in that discussion. So just kind of
curious. Is there other things that are going to come up? I mean, was this
something that just fell by the wayside because of the amount of ask? Because, a
lot of lessons were learned. A lot of people are trying to catch up and change
things because of those lessons that were learned from August 8h Lahaina, as well
as August 8h here. Again, I'm kind of surprised that it didn't make it.
MR. TODD: Relative to that, it was on our list for supplementals. So, from the
Fire Department side, it did make it into our request for budget. Now, as for the
process where it goes to Finance, they of course need to weigh out our department
versus every other department. And the reality of it is that there's always
competing needs within the entire County. I know our wastewater system and
whatnot has also got some major issues. So I totally understand how they've got
to make some really hard decisions on where they put the money. This is one of
those areas that we thought was really critical, but I know there's a lot of critical
areas out there.
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MS. EVANS: How does that play with Civil Defense that also does Incident
Command?
MR. TODD: Civil Defense is intended to be our EOC, our Emergency
Operations Center. And, in theory, they're the support system for Incident
Command. Because you could have, theoretically, three incidents on the island,
each with its own incident commander all at the same time,potentially. And so
the concept here is, at least on the Fire side, as we're responding, the ability for us
to have a singular training system where all of our personnel are trained to the
same standard that they're going to be able to apply those systems for incident
management on-scene. And this ties in with the Civil Defense concept in that
we're doing good Incident management.
But ultimately at the Civil Defense side, they're not necessarily managing the
incident so much as overseeing all the communication aspects and facilitating
how things are working within there, if that makes sense. And so there's other
this is but a small slice of the pie as far as the lessons learned and things that
probably need to be done.
MR. SPRINGER: Yeah, Council Evans. So this plugs right into the EOC
seamlessly, as far as operations go and the verbiage that they use. But where this
skillset actually gets utilized at times will be during occasions prior to the EOC
activation. It has the potential to prevent EOC activations. And also, if we're
going to talk about Lahaina and losing all communications capacity, so being able
to get through from an EOC to the men and women in the field, the "boots on the
ground," is not a possibility. So you would have to operate in remote pockets as
an (inaudible)to addressing calls as they come in and get walked in, "This is
happening here, this is happening there" if we're isolated, right.
So what this allows us to do is to actually effectively bounce through each
emergency, manage it, and move on in the even we cannot even get through to the
EOC. So we have that kind of self-sustainability model as far as emergency
response goes as a result of this program.
MS. EVANS: I like the idea of self-sustainability onsite. So my last question is
for the Administration. Given what happened with Lahaina and our August 8h
fire, I really was thinking we're going to see, really, some strong ideas coming out
that we would support because of what happened and lessons learned. Did the
Administration support anything in response to all those task force and working
groups? There was a lot of people trying to see how we could do things better.
Did you take a look at that?
MS. NAKAGAWA: Thank you for the question. I think there were lots of
discussions that have happened since then and continually ongoing discussions
about response and training and how we can do better. I do want to address
something related to this item. For something like this, it is training. And just as
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a reminder, we do have a million dollars in the training provision. We still have a
fund available this current year in the training provision that could be utilized for
something especially as critical as this. So I just wanted to continue to plug that
Fire has been very proactive in using the training provision, but there are still
funds left in this current year. And we still have a million dollars programmed in
the budget for next year for training, and this is something that falls very much in
line with high-priority training, training many as well. So just wanted to make
sure that was restated.
MS. EVANS: Well, that's a pretty powerful public statement. So, Fire Chief,
Battalion Chief, I heard that there may be funding there to really prioritize this
training since it really is critical. It's critical to our services, right, to the
community. He's having a quick conversation. But I think it's good because
what I'm hearing is there may be an opportunity to get this going
MR. SPRINGER: Thank you, Council Member Evans. I agree. And there's also
ways in which I can look at this program and I can break it down into three
phases. And I can also break the training down into multiple phases, micro
phases. The main thing, though, is we complete the entire process. So I'll
probably be back here again, and hopefully, we'll be partially along through the
process. But this is something I really want to see through for our personnel and
our community.
MS. EVANS: And I really want you to see it through too. But if we can do with
what we have, especially if there's money left before June 30'', that might be
really great. Chief Todd?
MR. TODD: I'm told we will be working on it within the current fiscal year.
MS. EVANS: All right. Thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Excellent. I was just going to ask that. I'm totally
supportive of the training and happy we can figure out a way to do it other than
this amendment. So I'll be voting "no" on the amendment but supporting the
training. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just wanted to thank Battalion Chief
Springer. I like your explanation of this being a throat punch. Probably the best
one I've heard in my five years of sitting here. There's been some good ones, but
that was the best way to explain the efficacy of a project that I've heard in a long
time. Given what I've just learned, I'm probably not going to be supporting today
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and given that we have funding for this purpose already. And then we can work
on this in the future. But I love your commitment and I love that definition. I
might use that in the future.
MR. SPRINGER: Thank you, sir.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. It's always good to have these
discussions publicly. I think we, as a body, have a final say on what our budget
looks like. We passed a resolution asking the Administration to make Fire
Department a priority, given all that has happened across the State and on our
island. And when one of my colleagues has asked how have we learned from the
incidences of other communities and applied that to our budget, I don't see it.
And that's why we're having these conversations.
We also don't have monthly budget summaries, so it's hard to gauge how much
funding is available in the training account so that we can suggest to the
departments that they go that route. Departments don't also know how they can
access that money. So I think there's a lot of learning lessons maybe county-wide
to ensure that if we are saying we want folks to invest in training and that we put
money in the budget for that, there are clear processes so that our departments can
access that funding. I'm sorry to have to make the point this way, but I think it's
really important that we are utilizing these resources as quickly as possible at the
beginning of the fiscal year and not waiting till a month and a half before the year
is out to be spending down those funds.
I'm so happy to hear that there is funding available within the training account.
With that being said, I will be withdrawing this amendment and working with
Chief Springer and our Finance Director to ensure that this particular project is
able to move forward, because it sounds like there is a lot of support for this
particular training by the body. Thank you, Chair.
Withdraw Motion Ms. Kierkiewicz withdrew her motion to amend Bill 136,
to Amend: Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 755.16.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. All right, I'll just make a couple quick comments.
I'm going to support the amendment just from the standpoint that there is this
great big pot of money that isobviously, I didn't rest enough during that lunch
break.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: We're charging along, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Let's go ahead and do the next amendment.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And then you can make your comment—
CHR.
ommentCHR. KIMBALL: Yeah, okay, let's do
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: If it also has to do with training.
CHR. KIMBALL: Give me a chance to say something.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I apologize.
CHR. KIMBALL: I have really important points to make.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I know you do.
CHR. KIMBALL: They're salient.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.17. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Guess what? Money for more training. And if we are able
to support it with what is currently in our training accounts, would love to be able
to do that. But do want to provide our Fire Chief and Battalion Chief an
opportunity to speak to the importance of Engine Company Operations training.
It's my understanding that we don't have a standardized training program for our
engine companies currently. But just would love for you to kind of talk about the
importance and how this particular program can work and, as you say, ensure that
our folks are able to effectively attack fires should they arise on our island.
MR. SPRINGER: Thank you, Council Kierkiewicz. So, historically, in the time
I've been in the department, we've had multiple recruit classes with multiple
different trainers teaching multiple different methods of fire attack. The science
has changed. Building construction has changed. Building contents have
changed and increased. They're all made of synthetic hydrocarbons that burn
hotter and faster. So what this program does is standardize engine company
operations. Engine company operations is everything involved in putting the fire
out.
In observing the techniques that are currently utilized, there's a lot of room for
improvement. What this teaches our personnel is—first of all, let me rewind this
back. This teaches our personnel, first, how to size up a structure, how to
estimate how much hose they need to take inside, and then they go into the UL
studies—Underwriters Laboratories—and these studies, Federal-level studies.
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And they explain fire behavior in a way that firefighters can understand, and
ingrain a decision-making model that could be algorithmic. And, to make it quite
simple, it's what, when, and how to apply a certain water application tactic.
It may sound simple, but when you're making entry in zero visibility to put a fire
out, wearing 75 pounds of gear, dragging a hose that has up to 89 pounds of
nozzle reaction force pushing back at you, and there may be holes in the floor
this program addresses everything. We brought this program down as a pilot in a
previous year. I don't know if all of you know the big hose line that we use, the
two-and-a-half inch hose lines, the instructor we're looking at for this course got
our personnel moving and flowing water at the same time with that giant hose line
in a matter of three days, only two of which was actual hands-on training. The
first was all classroom, background information.
What this represents for us as far as cost-effectiveness, if we—everybody—
depends what district you work in, right, you're aware of the cost of a single-
family home. This is about saving lives and saving people's property. So, for
me, the cost, if we can start increasing our ability to save property and illustrate
decreased property loss in our operations and also collect data on fire-under-
control times, fire-suppression times, meaning from when we arrive on-scene to
the time the fire's declared under control, we're decreasing our exposure for our
civilians that are inside of a burning building, and by default, we're also
decreasing risk for firefighters.
We're operating off a single air bottle with maybe 20 minutes of air. We've got
to get in. We've got to punch it in the throat, and we've got to get out. This is
really for the line personnel, the guys that put on their gear and go inside so they
can go and pull civilians out of the building.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chief Springer, for that very detailed
overview. Chair, would love your comments on what you were going to say
regarding training, and to just also hear from my colleagues generally about their
views on this particular training that Chief Springer has described. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, guys, for not turning on your lights so Ioh, all
right, Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I'm just going to go back to what we talked about for the last
one. There's a training fund so I would love to see the resources pulled from that.
But I did want to tell you how impressed I am with your depth and breadth of
your knowledge, Chief Springer. And it's really a reflection of your dedication to
and affection for your team and your staff. And it comforts me to know that
somebody of your level of commitment to your people is helping to train our first
responders and keep them safe in the line of duty. So I just wanted to thank you
for that. I won't be supporting this because I'd love to see this come from those
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training funds. And if there are still funds available in this fiscal year, those
would be great to utilize, and then there will be a training fund available for next
year if it needs to happen in the next fiscal year as well. Thank you.
MR. SPRINGER: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Chair. I think I called you Officer Spencer and I
apologize for that. It's Springer.
MR. SPRINGER: You're not the first one. You won't be the last.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. But what we're hearing today, really, I'm telling
you guys Western Interstate Region, they're finding a lot of tools. It's called
Firewise. And they really want to empower property owners to help bring down
the cost of their insurance, because in California, they're backing out, and the
insurance programs are being funded by the Federal Government. And whatever
we can do to help get the training, provide the data so that we can demonstrate to
insurance companies that we have a strong fire response will be incredibly helpful
to our community.
I know we're finding other ways, but I also think I'm still in support because we
can still support and still use the training money for even more stuff. That's my
thoughts. Thank you, Chair, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Before we get super excited about the leftover monies in
the training fund, and again I want to be able to utilize money we appropriated for
this purpose last budget cycle, I just want to confirm that this particular request
can be funded with that training account. Okay, I'm seeing Managing
Director Sako shake her head "no." Because it's mostly overtime, we are not able
to utilize the training account to support this request. Okay. I really appreciate
that clarification.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. I just wanted further clarification. So, for this
and the previous one, for the training portion can we use the training dollars, but
not for the overtime? Is that what I'm hearing? Correct. Okay. Okay, thank
you. I appreciate that.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. All right, don't
withdraw. I'm not ready, no. No, actually, I was going to say a couple things.
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First of all, I would just disagree a little bit with Council Member Kierkiewicz
with respect to the Administration's commitment to fund Fire-related things. I do
think we did see a good investment in Fire. Could we do more? Yes. And I
appreciate that you've brought these amendments forth to do more.
What I would also say with respect to training is that even though we have this
million-dollar training budget that is broadly available across the County, when
we say yes to training dollars that are designated to a certain thing, like fire
preparedness, like the preparedness of our first responders, I think that signals
what we, as a body, are prioritizing. And again, based on our FEMA training,
prevention, prevention, prevention. That's always the first thing. And that starts
with training and having an expertise.
So I would have actually supported the previous amendment. I will support this
one as well. And even though a portion of it could be covered with the training
budget, again the budget is this whole big pot, and I don't mind saying we want to
carve out this pot for this very specific purpose because we've identified it as a
priority. If you want to bring that other one back at some point, I'm just saying.
But with this one, I'll be supporting it. All right, with that, we'll take the vote.
MS. EVANS: Chair, I have a question.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: We're looking at training and you're setting different salaries and
wages. Your numbers seem to be all over the map. Why is this one so high at
258,000, give or take a few?
MR. TODD: So the first one that we were talking about just recently that got
pulled back was because it's train the trainer. So,basically, we're taking a select
cadre of personnel and training them in the system and process as before, then
going on duty to deploy that. On this particular one, it's actually bringing in the
department themselves, each individual member, to go through the training.
There's a lot of us and it's about I think three days of training each.
MR. SPRINGER: For Engine Company Operations, it's a three-day training.
They're long days, about ten hours, including their travel time. These are for four
workshops with 30 students. So we hit about 120 of our personnel in one year.
So we'd have to run it about three years, consecutive, to get everybody trained up.
MS. EVANS: So will you come back? Is this 257,212 for three years? No,
it's you'll come back every year for this?
MR. SPRINGER: For the salaries and wages part, the figure I have is 202,176.
And then I also have the in-house delivery of 55,036. So it'll be 257.
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MS. EVANS: Oh, got it. Okay.
MR. SPRINGER: Yeah. So the in-house delivery, I'm just trying to pull out the
instructor cost of what it costs to bring my personnel in to deliver the training
versus a regular line personnel coming in as students, if that makes sense.
MS. EVANS: Yeah. Yeah, no. It does now because it came out. I'm just saying
257, so I'm okay. All right. Thank you.
MR. SPRINGER: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Anyone else? All right,
seeing none, all those in favor of amending Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Communication 755.17,please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 755.17 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, and Chair Kimball —5.
Noes: Council Members Galimba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, and Villegas —3.
Absent: Council Member Inaba— 1.
Excused: None.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.18. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. This was intended to provide for a
conversation actually with the Council. You saw yesterday we had one person
you guys are done? Well, until a little lateryesterday, we had one person testify
on the County budget. One. And so is there more that we can do as a County to
get out into the community to explain the budget, to have people understand
priorities and how all of these funding streams work? I think there's room for
improvement there. Again, I just wanted to have the conversation. We had only
spoken, Director Nakagawa and I, on this for a few minutes. But again, I just
wanted to have a discussion with my colleagues around could we potentially look
at investing in greater community outreach on the budget so that folks know how
their taxpayer dollars are working for them.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. This is an item
again we've talked about in the past, and it is really about breaking down this very
large complex budget for everybody to understand. Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder, you had asked several times about how do we show what funds go to
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what purpose and how, right. So not quite how-a-bill-becomes-a-law kind of
thing but how do we explain our budgetary process to the community in a much
more digestible way than what we have today. And very—also appreciate the
comment about testifiers in our budget process, and how do we engage the
community more in this process.
And so our brief conversation was we do have a phenomenal budget team of two.
And while they are incredibly awesome in what they do, we are limited in what
we do, but we want to do better. We know there is room for improvement for
sure. And I would love to put together more graphics, videos, easier-to-
understand tools, but our resources are limited. So that's the conversation that
we've had.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And that's perfect. Again, this has been introduced in
order to have that conversation, and I'd like to hear from my colleagues if this is
something that they would get behind. I would like to perhaps see either contract
services, but it also sounds like you have a very incredible team of two. Would a
third be helpful? I don't know. I think it should be part of the conversation. I
don't think we should be accepting this particular amendment, as written, today,
but again, it was designed for us to just talk about what are the needs so that we
can tell the story of how important all of the work the different departments do to
serve the population.
MS. NAKAGAWA: And just if I could, one more thing I would like to add is our
new ARP (American Rescue Plan) system will do a lot to improve our ability to
display information and run reports. It is a couple years out, so I'm still very
anxious to make improvements as quickly as possible. Would have loved to do
more now, so thinking kind of what we can do in the interim. But that is on its
way and that is something that we can definitely look forward to. We are working
on—is already a contract that is in place. So that is coming. We just—that will
take some time.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I look forward to my colleagues' comments
on this.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Thank you for us having this discussion, but I don't
support what we're trying to achieve this way. I've been a believer since I've
been here that it would be great to give this kind of money to us in the legislative
branch and stand up more of a public access room like they have at the State
Capitol. There you can have a YouTube or a podcast or a training module on how
to read the budget and comment on the budget, as well as laws and bills and what
the process that we have at—how we agree to the budget, what our different steps
are, how we have our hearings and what opportunity the public has to engage. I
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would rather see funding go to our own legislative branch if we want to educate
the public on how to be more engaged with us. But I don't think giving it to
Finance to do this way is the way to go. Thank you, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council
Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. In support of this. I think it leads us back to the
conversation we had from earlier this morning, which is this is a complex budget.
There are different funds and they have different restrictions. I actually like it
right here the way it is, as it ramps up into this dashboard that we're trying to
create. I think this early sampling of taking it out to community and getting that
feedback so that, as we build out to that dashboard or how we put that information
out there will actually be community-driven and government-supported. And so I
think we're all chasing the same thing. We're just not sure how to get there, and
that's why I kind of like this small amount to go do that community sampling so
that when we build that information, it's in a manner that the community was
anticipating and expecting.
I like the idea of maybe the legislative body or having it kind of twofold, right,
from the legislative side and then on the Administration's side. I think there's a
number of ways, whether it's through the schools, the university, podcasts, social
media. I think this is a nice first attempt to try and have a broader education for
our community. I would support this. I would support it anyplace else. I think
it's a kind of investment we have to make to educate our community. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Council
Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. So, for the Director, can you just say a
little bit more about how you would envision using this money if it was given to
you this year. I heard you say that you've got a lot of things in the works, and
things are coming in a couple years. But what would you actually want to achieve
with some amount of money or a pot of money for this year if it was given to your
office, and do you have the staffing and the expertise or whatever you need if just
given the money to accomplish that?
MS. NAKAGAWA: In some of the brief conversations we've had and some of
my initial thoughts on this would be around the ideas we've discussed: in
consultant-type contract, to do best practice, to see what's done. We can certainly
add to that. That would be minimal. But looking at, one, the community-
engagement piece and what does that look like, how do we get better. We've had
different conversations about that. And then also looking at some actual help to
put together different types of either videos or templates that can break things
down that our team can then use later as a starting place. Those are just my initial
kind of thoughts on how it could be used.
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One of the things that was talked about today was surveying and how we reach a
larger audience, even internally within the County. And so that's something we
could do with or without these funds. But as these ideas come up about more
engagement in our budgeting process, more research and the time spent on that
would be helpful. But there are things that we can continue to do and we will
continue to do with or without this funding.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. I'm just wondering if—maybe this is to
the maker of this amendment also—would stuff around RPT (real property tax) be
included in that, because I think that's something that sometimes the public is
very interested in and doesn't always quite understand either.
MS. NAKAGAWA: I'm sorry. Could you ask your question again?
MS. KAGIWADA: Real property tax, would some of the information about real
property tax potentially be ?
MS. NAKAGAWA: Oh, of course. I don't think we can ignore our largest
revenue source and explain to the community where the money comes from and
then how we spend it. So, yes.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Thank you. And then my last question is actually to
the Chair here. I know that you've been thinking a lot about staffing and how
Council Services and your Chair staff work together. I'm just wondering if you
can speak to are there any things you see overlapping or potentially collaborating
or anything here that you might see at—and you don't have to answer if other
people want to answer right way, but thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: If the body doesn't mind, I'll respond briefly because this is
one of the things when Council Member Evans made her statement. We are
transitioning a staff person into the Chair's staff to do the grant-in-aid and
contract monitoring. That will take some kuleana from one of the other Chair's
staff away and provide more time for that person to do PIO (public information
officer)-type activities, which was already part of the extended job description. I
think we're going to have to do some training around that, but where it's maybe
10 percent of that person's time used for PIO activities, I'm looking at maybe
making that be half of their time.
There's also been budget in the legislative branch for some other activities related
to promotion—I mean, I was actually just talking to somebody from
Tommy Waters' staff and they used to send mailers out about important bills.
There was a lot more community outreach that I think we have funds for. We
haven't used them to the extent we could. And so I think there's the possibility to
strategize on our own end with what we've got on how to better engage the
public.
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MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thanks. I guess with that I'm feeling like, and I think
the maker suggested this as well, this isn't quite fleshed out enough for me to vote
for it at this point, but really like the idea and would like to continue the
discussion. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Really appreciate the feedback. I'll
want to convene with you and Finance Director to kind of talk about just
coordinating, right. Because, I feel like there's going to be a lot of cross-
coordination between our departments, especially if we want to go with the route
of just more access by community members through the legislative branch. So
I'll be withdrawing this amendment. Thank you.
Withdraw Motion Ms. Kierkiewicz withdrew her motion to amend Bill 136,
to Amend: Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 755.18.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.19. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Perfect. Thank you. Administrator Runnells, thank you so
much for your patience. It's been quite a day. Why don't you come up here. So
Administrator Runnells and I and Representative Chris Todd were on PBS
insights about a month or two ago. One of the things that I asked him was "In
your experience, what percent of the animals that kind of come through Animal
Control around the island are microchipped and registered with the County?"
And I think you gave a figure of less than 5 percent, less than 10 percent. It was
an insanely low number.
And so, this morning we had adopted a budget amendment that would increase
sort of community outreach and education around what's in the Code. Like, "You
need to get your animal registered," and"Microchipping would be extremely
helpful because in the event that your dog gets loose and is out in the community,
it can easily be scanned and returned back to you."
So this funding actually is dedicated to providing support for doing those outreach
clinics in communities around the island, and having them free and available to
community members, guiding them through that processregister, microchip.
And because you have brought on—has she officially started yet, our
veterinarian?
MR. RUNNELLS: She's starting on the first of July actually.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. At the start of the fiscal year. We had talked about
wanting to use her in the community a bit more. And one of the questions I asked
you was "Well, does she have everything she needs to be able to go out and
provide those veterinarian services?" And so you've identified some things that
would be really helpful in that outreach. And so I just wanted to give you an
opportunity to provide some details to my colleagues.
MR. RUNNELLS: Okay. So we talked about the outreach clinics and outreach
opportunities that we have for our agency. This is within our plans that we go to
different areas of the island, set up a quick clinic. It doesn't even have to be in a
building, which is why I included a pretty substantial tent that is a quick
reactionary tent to set up in some of these areas. Have the veterinarian, have
microchips, have a couple of law officers to be able to microchip and register
these animals right there in the neighborhoods, because we have such a low
response to registering within the County.
And to be honest, without microchips in most of the animals in the County has a
huge impact on our workload. Instead of having a quick turnaround time for most
of the animals, most of our animals sit sometimes up to 45 days in our facility.
And even then, we manage to find an owner for some of them, but some of them
we don't, unfortunately. So, if we can get those animals registered out there in
the communities, then when they do get loose and we do find them, at least the
turnaround time is pretty low. And so these items that we've identified would
help us to set up those quick clinics and quick outreach clinics for the veterinarian
and for our staff to be able to do that quickly.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So there's again funding to do the clinics and the outreach
and the microchipping. There's funding for a mobile tent, tables, chairs,
transportation trailer. What is a portable chemistry analyzer?
MR. RUNNELLS: So a portable chemistry analyzer is something for the
veterinarian. It's a tool to allow her to do stuff within the field. And so, if she
identifies an animal that looks like it has a problem or something, she can always
do something right there to quickly identify if there's a problem with the animal
during her exams.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's amazing. Like through analyzing their saliva or is
it scanned?
MR. RUNNELLS: No. It's a quick blood draw.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Oh, blood draw.
MR. RUNNELLS: We'd take the blood and then quickly analyze it right there,
table-side. It's pretty cool.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah. That's fantastic. Well,just wanted to do my part to
support those who have been just staunch advocates at every single budget or
Committee meeting where there is something about animal control. I know that
this is something that is going to be really appreciated by the community if we are
able to approve it here at the Council.
MR. RUNNELLS: Oh, yeah.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Looking for everyone's support. Thank you.
MR. RUNNELLS: As far as our numbers go, people always complain about or
even ask us about our numbers and our recovery animals, as opposed to our
animals that we unfortunately don't recover, and this would actually turn the table
on that. If we can actually get those animals registered, it would be a lot less
animals that we'd have to put down at the end of the day.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Great. I think one number that would be really
great to get out to the public, I just thought of it when you mentioned that, is
number of animals returned to people when they are microchipped. So to really
push that number and then compare it to the numbers when they are not. I think
that will help a lot in trying to explain to the community why this is so important.
I'm very supportive of the idea. My main question is do you currently have the
staffing to actually go out and do this on a regular basis?
MR. RUNNELLS: It would be stretching our people, but at the same time, if we
can get a little more proactive, we can decrease our reactive time on the back end.
And so I feel like if we put forth the extra effort, and even ask for some possible
overtime to do some of these clinics, it would give us the opportunity to decrease
our workload overall and intakes.
MS. KAGIWADA: Right. Well, I would highly suggest, if possible, to
coordinate with some of the spay-and-neuter money that's out there and do it in
tandem. You will also have more help, I think. So maybe you can just like be
their vet going out and then they have other help or something. But, yeah,
coordinating. Also just to let the community know, to get that word out there
before you come. Because, there's nothing worse than putting in all that effort,
going to a community, setting everything up, being there and then nobody really
comes, either because they didn't really know about it or it wasn't a convenient
day or time or something. So I think—and hopefully, you can maybe even, if
you're going to our different districts, if we can help at all, I'll just say that I'd be
happy to try to help figure out what might work best in my district for some of
those things.
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MR. RUNNELLS: Okay, yeah. I mean, that's part of what's in the money as
well, is educational and promotional stuff so we can get the information out there.
But we're also using social media more now to get some of our animal
information out. And so we plan on using social media for a lot more things this
coming year, including outreach and for public service announcements, things
like that.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, good. All right. I'll be supporting. Thank you so
much.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Anyone else?
Council Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thanks. Yes, I guess I just am very much supportive of Animal
Control and getting on top of our very big issue. I mean, it might be a little bit
sort of a stretch for you to get on this but there is the need. So I'll be supporting.
MR. RUNNELLS: Great.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. All right, moving
forward, all those in favor of amending Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Communication 755.19,please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 755.19 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Kimball—8.
Noes: Council Member Inaba— 1.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.20. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I believe we have Prosecuting Attorney
Kelden Waltjen outside. Ready to make his grand entrance. Let's go, Cardinals!
Just kidding. And Business Manager Grant Nagata. Business Manager, right?
Administrator. I apologize.
(Note: At this time, Prosecuting Attorney Kelden Waltjen and Business
Administrator Grant Nagata came forward to address the members of the
Council.)
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MR. WALTJEN: Good afternoon, everyone.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for being here and your patience. This
proposes to add funding into Prosecuting Attorney's salary and wages account for
three additional positions, one being an executive aide. I'll give you folks an
opportunity to kind of speak to some of the administrative support you folks are
needing in order to ensure communications with members of the community, but
also just back-end support with an office.
There's also a need for administrative support in West Hawaii, which is where
your assistant prosecutor Stephen Frye is located, and then also the need for a
paralegal assistant. There's a lot of cases that you folks are handling. I just want
to make sure that there is support to do the research, process the paperwork,
because I know that there are a lot of deadlines that need to be met. I just want to
make sure that the Prosecutor's office is getting what it needs to do the work.
There's been a lot of support, rightly so, for the Police Department. But if we are
adding more officers on the road, for instance, we have to make sure that we have
enough folks in the Prosecutor's office to sort of process any type of arrest or
anything that really comes through.
So this is, again,just a balancing act but making sure that the departments that
really need resources are receiving them. With that,just want to turn it over to
you guys to kind of speak to, in detail, what each of these positions entail. Thank
you.
MR. WALTJEN: Mahalo for the opportunity to address you all this afternoon.
Thank you for having us. Yes, we're looking at these additional positions. One
of the things that we feel is very important with our local law enforcement
communities is that we do have a very collaborative and unified law enforcement
between the Hawaii Police Department and our County Prosecutor's office.
And you mentioned it earlier, where, with the growth and enhancements that the
HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) has made even in the last calendar year with
the increased recruitments, we're getting to a position where I think we're all
going to be able to benefit from seeing, hopefully in the very near future, a fully
staffed Police Department, where we've been understaffed for such a long time,
especially in the rural communities, where they're focusing on increasing the
number of officers to better serve and protect our community.
And as Council Member Kierkiewicz mentioned earlier, you know, in three things
quite simple, right. The more water you have, you're going to need a bigger glass
to receive it. And with the amount of hopeful increased level of law enforcement
presence, I do anticipate that we're going to be seeing an increase in number of
the cases that are referred to our office. And I want to make sure that we'll be
able to best serve the community. So these enhancements that we're looking at
are going to be looking at trying to improve and enhance services.
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One of the things is with these three positions, what I'd like to see—we'll
continue to do this throughout our administration—is try to make both the
East Hawaii and West Hawaii offices to operate as equals. We don't want to
have an East Hawaii-focused type of administration. We try to create parity
among both offices. That's why we've focused on creating supervisory positions
in the West Hawaii office that are counterparts to what we have in Hilo, that also
has increased our staffing out in West Hawaii.
The private secretary position that we're looking at adding to the West Hawaii
office would serve as an administrative support point of contact, everything from
facilities management personnel to other things that, hand in hand, happen on a
day-to-day basis.
As Council Member Kierkiewicz mentioned, our primary administrator in the
Kona office on a daily basis is First Deputy Stephen Frye. Our office continues to
operate in a fashion in which our supervisors lead by example. They are all
working supervisors, including Mr. Frye, who maintains a caseload and makes
regular appearances in court. Given the reliance of having him in that type of
position, it would be nice to have a private secretary support him in the
West Hawaii office and be available for our personnel as well as public inquiries.
The executive aide position, one of the things that we're looking at, as many of
you are aware because you've had interactions with me over at—especially
during legislative session, we try to be very active. We regularly submit input,
whether it be in support or opposition of pending legislative initiatives and
bills/proposals at the State level as well as even at the County level. I hope that
by attaining an executive aide position that's more dedicated to the legislative
process, we'll be able to even further enhance and provide more input that will
better address some of the concerns in our community.
And lastly, with the paralegal assistant position, one of the focuses that we're
hoping to do is there's a gap in our current hierarchy structure of our office where
we have legal clerical and we have our deputy prosecuting attorneys. The
paralegal assistants will be more of a hands-on, in-courtroom type of trial
assistant to fill a gap in need to assist the deputies in the presentation of evidence
and other things that may arise in the prosecution of a case. So that's what we're
trying to do. We're trying to fill gaps and hopefully be able to best serve our
community with these additional positions.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks for being here. Looking for everyone's support.
MR. WALTJEN: Thank you.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, I yield.
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CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Before we go on
to discussion on this, Corporation Counsel, you indicated there's potentially some
concerns about this amendment. Can I ask you to come forward and share that
with the rest of the body?
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MS. STRANCE: Good afternoon. Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. This
amendment is drafted to both increase the budget and to create specific positions.
Under the Hawaii County Charter, the Mayor is given the authority to create new
positions in the County.
In the past, my understanding is the way these types of requests have been
handled is the Council would approve the total amount in the salary and wages
section of the budget, and then leave the position creation to the Mayor at a later
time. And so I know there's this particular amendment and there's several others,
and so our request would be that they be amended just to include the full amount
or to delete the paragraph that specifically adds the positions to the budget.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Corporation Counsel. Further discussion from
this body? Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. I was thinking about sort
of similar to what Ms. Strance said. Just looking at these as not being created yet
and funding them, understanding the need but just I mean, our role is never to
create positions. We fund them. That's kind of a cart-before-the-horse idea, so
I'm just on the fence. If you guys need them, I'm open to the idea but I just had
some questions evolving around that.
MR. WALTJEN: Perhaps I'll offer this up: With all due respect to Corporation
Counsel Strance in her review of the Charter, I believe the Charter does also
include a provision that allows the Prosecuting Attorney to appoint necessary staff
and personnel. And so I'd ask that you guys take that into consideration as well.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Are you done? Okay. Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I'll just add that this is not an
unprecedented way of doing things. During my time on the Council, I recall
former Council Chair Maile David transferring money into the Department of
Environmental Management this way to fund positions for the Waiohinu Transfer
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Station. Those positions were not created. A resolution came forward later from
the Administration, in partnership with the department, to create those positions.
But we can put additional funding in the budget.
And if you take a look at the budget amendment on the back of this
communication, specific positions are not specified. But in the effort of being
transparent with my colleagues and the community, I did want to list these
positions we were looking to just support. So, again, this is not unprecedented.
We also did this in the past when there was a desire for there to be an arborist
within the County. So the Council has taken the initiative to put money in
accounts, and the Administration has come forward to create those positions. And
clearly Prosecuting Attorney's office has, I feel, demonstrated the need for these
positions in their office. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Any further discussion? Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: Good afternoon. I'm not sure if you've been tuning in. I'm not
supporting budget amendments today. So giving you that courtesy to let you
know. I do feel that everyone's budget has adequate funding right now, and I'll
be looking to actually reduce the amount of our budget. So I just wanted to let
you know since you haven't been here all day. Thank you.
MR. WALTJEN: I appreciate that. Mahalo.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Just wondering, was this in your
supplementals?
MR. WALTJEN: Yes.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Was it at the top of your supplementals?
MR. WALTJEN: We did make some adjustments I think on the, let me see, the
priority list. The supplemental was the paralegal assistant. Several of the other
positions I think were added into the current budget.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. I'm having I guess this is a bigger lift than some of
the other ones just mainly because, by creating these positions, we are basically
committing to this for this coming year and every year after. Right? And so it's
not the same as some of these other ones where we are just looking at this year
and adding something to this year's budget, but we are actually basically adding
this amount for future budgets too. So, yeah,just having a little bit of a hard time.
Without having had any more conversation about it, seems like a big ask for so
little amount of discussion and time and the public not weighing in on it, all that
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kind of stuff. So that's just where I'm at right now. I'm sure they're probably
needed positions, but yeah,just a little concerned about adding them in this way.
Thank you.
MR. WALTJEN: I appreciate your concern. And without saying more, I think
these types of positions, when you look at it in the scope of the hierarchy structure
of the Prosecutor's office, I think these are probably enhancements that probably
should have been made a long time ago. The other counties all have these sort of
positions in these areas to support the Administration.
If you look at the Police Department, the Police Department has private
secretaries for a lot of their high ranking officers. Those officers are what I would
refer to as they're administrative, and they have their own dedicated
administrative secretarial staff. We have one Administration and we operate on
an island-wide capacity. So I'm hoping that, by having these enhancements made
to our personnel services, that these would be the enhancements that we would
need going forward, and we wouldn't have to be addressing these types of
administrative matters in the future. But I appreciate your concern and thank you.
MS. KAGIWADA: Understood but I feel like it should have been in your main
budget or at least prioritized in that way if these were so critical, as you're talking
about. It just seems like a big commitment for our County without a lot of input.
Thanks.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: This would be for Deanna in your new position as Managing
Director. So, I don't know, I'm just trying to think what options might be
available. If these positions are critical and determined to be critical, is it possible
to work with Human Resources Division and look at transferring/creating
positions? Is this you don't have to wait a year to do this. Can't you come back
to the Council and try to fill these positions? And that's getting kind of to
Member Kagiwada's sense of if you're going to expand government and add
more positions in a department, there seems to be a better process than doing it at
this stage. Isn't there other options available? Could we see this in front of us in
a month? Two months?
MS. SAKO: So the concern comes that once the budget's passed, it's difficult to
then find a revenue source to come back in and amend the budget. We talked
about different liabilities that are out there yet. And so, some yes, it is timing.
But I do agree with what Council Member Kierkiewicz said earlier in that there
have been times when Council added funding for positions and then
Administration came in with the resolution on July 1st, or as soon as the budget is
signed into law, and I guess we wouldn't even have to wait for that, but you
know, to create the positions. So we're not necessarily disagreeing with anything.
I think it was the specific wording in the resolution that said Section 3 would be
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amended to add those positions, and it wouldn't be done that way. It would
actually be that we would come in with a resolution shortly to create positions, if
that's what's passed by the body.
MS. EVANS: Okay. When you have a lot of vacant positionsactually, do you
have vacant positions?
MR. WALTJEN: We do have some vacant positions.
MS. EVANS: But none of the vacant positions fall with these positions that
you're asking for.
MR. WALTJEN: Correct. One of the things I'll note, you can see in the
supplemental request I'm asking for one paralegal assistant. In my supplemental,
I had asked for two, because I had asked for one for Hilo and one for Kona. But
because we have some vacancies in our West Hawaii office that are clerical-
related, I amended the request. For purposes of this amendment, I'm only asking
for one because our Hilo staff is fully staffed in clerical. So I want to see how
that enhancement—with that additional position, we can see a metric to see how it
enhances or improves services within our circuit court unit. And then we can then
better adjust to see how we want to use it in Kona.
I will share this as well,just so everyone can understand. Back in 2021, I
presented the first budget under our new Administration. You guys asked me a
lot of questions about LegalEdge and our case management system. So I just
want to let you guys know we are in our go-live implementation this week. We
have vendors from the continent here as we speak, training our staff island-wide.
And that new case management system I think is going to improve a lot of the
clerical functions. So that's another reason I'm only asking for the one position,
because maybe perhaps after a few months of our system running through, we
might not need that additional paralegal assistant position. We might be looking
at perhaps maybe other personnel adjustments, whether it be reallocations or
looking at other types of more appropriate services, and based on the duties and
responsibilities that are going to be afforded to those personnel based on the
enhancements of the new service offers to our office.
MS. EVANS: I guess that's when you use the word "reallocation,"I'm thinking
is there a way that you get this—other ways than just this way because this isI
know. Wouldn't want this to become a norm. Maybe an exception to the rule.
MS. SAKO: But there have been times in the past when we've worked with
Human Resources. If there were vacant unfunded positions that were being
utilized by any department, if they're in the same bargaining unit, we have tried to
utilize those positions first. I think most of those have been used up now. But if
that was an option, obviously we'll talk to Human Resources before coming
forward with a resolution to create more.
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MS. EVANS: Okay. I guess my last question is, does Administration have a
position on this, one way or another? Neutral? For it? Against it?
MS. SAKO: I don't think it was not funded because we didn't think it was a good
idea. A lot of the supplementals that weren't funded was because of the—waiting
to determine what happens with temporary hazard pay. And that's a large liability
that's swimming out there, and that's really what I believe caused us to kind of
hold back on a lot of these things until we knew for sure what that liability was
going to be. So we're not saying that we don't agree or that it's a bad idea or
anything like that. It's just we were just kind of holding back.
MS. EVANS: So you're kind of in a holding pattern, wait and see, and now we
have this in front of us.
MS. SAKO: Yes.
MS. EVANS: Okay. All right. I yield. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Corporation Counsel wants to make a comment
before we go to you, Vice Chair.
MR. INABA: Can I, actually, because it was a question for her regarding this?
CHR. KIMBALL: Oh, sure.
MR. INABA: If you could just rearticulate what the specific issue is with this
amendment, as a learning opportunity, so we're really clear. We understand how
positions are created once the budget is passed, but we want to be very clear on
what the problem is here.
MS. STRANCE: Okay, thanks. There's actually not a problem here for this one
and I stand corrected. Under the County Charter, the Prosecutor's office is treated
differently than other departments, and expressly allows the Prosecuting Attorney
to appoint—it appears to allow the Prosecuting Attorney to appoint and create.
And so I would have to research that further to say that it couldn't be done. So I
just want to kind of step back from that.
But, as a general statement, the Charter empowers the Mayor to create positions
in the County, and doesn't provide that same authority to the Council. And so the
Council, through the budgeting, is expressing its desire to have those positions
created. And once the money is there, it can go back to the Administration to
create them or not. But the funding would be there. And so my understanding is
that in the past, where the Council's expressing a preference to have new
positions created and funds them, it's placed in the general salaries and wages,
that portion of the budget, so that the funds are there for the positions to be
created and funded.
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MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. I—yeah, because in review, I don't necessarily
see a problem with what's being requested. I would maybe walk back to what
you just shared because I don't want us to get to a place where we're reading
things in the Charter that maybe aren't there. The Prosecuting Attorney appoints
deputies and other necessary staff, but doesn't have the authority anywhere in this
section to create positions. And I think we should be really clear that that lies
with the Mayor.
I hear what you're saying, Mr. Waltj en, but I want us to maybe not get confused
and use this in the future as an opportunity for other prosecuting attorneys to be
creating positions when they feel it's necessary. Thank you.
MS. STRANCE: I think my step back is I haven't reviewed or researched this
piece of it. And I don't want to stand in front of this body and say a hard no when
I don't know the answer. And if Mr. Waltjen has done that research, I want to
respect that research and go do my own checking.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. I would state for the record I'm reading it
myself, so we can have all the opinions on the record. Thanks.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair. All right, I'll just briefly add two
things. First, that it's my recollection that this was similar to the process we used
to create the positions in OSCER, which was just last year which was, yes, to just
allocate the money for salaries and wages and the fringe benefits. Deanna is
shaking her head at me, so I must be recalling it wrong.
MS. SAKO (from audience): We included it under the budget under(inaudible).
CHR. KIMBALL: That's right. Okay. Thank you for that. I appreciate that.
Okay. So I take back that line of statement. Council Member Kierkiewicz, I'm
not entirely opposed to supporting this at some point. I did take a brief
opportunity. I hadn't had a chance to do this, to look at all the vacancies.
Prosecuting Attorney, you do have quite a few. I'd like a chance to maybe look at
that and see if we can pull the funding for these out of positions that are actually
vacant and don't look like they're going to be filled by the time we get into the
next fiscal year, rather than just pulling this from Fund Balance right now. If you
don't mind pulling this to be considered later, I'd like a little bit of time to
evaluate that with the Prosecuting Attorney's office.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Perhaps you could speak to that, Prosecutor Waltjen,
because I know that you have a lot of folks that you're currently interviewing for
vacant positions. So I don't want to pull from that funding source if there are
folks that you're going to be bringing on shortly.
MR. WALTJEN: Right. I think also the data you guys are looking at and
referring to is probably what was submitted in the budget. I don't know if you
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remember, during my budget presentation I had mentioned that we had, at that
time, I think it was—Mr. Nagata probably can refresh my recollection but I
think we had about five people in a waiting period. They've since started. I have
one more person starting on June 1st. I think that we have two more impending
hires that are set to start.
Some of the vacancies in the the largest vacancy area is for deputy prosecuting
attorneys. No secret. In the legal arena, it's just very difficult to hire attorneys.
My wife works in private practice, so even—it's not something that's unique to
government law offices. It's something that just I mean, relatively to the entire
employment force, everybody's having difficulties hiring for these different
positions.
But we have a number of positions where we have conducted interviews and
we're waiting. We're in the hiring process. So there really aren't that many
vacancies other than the areas in the deputy prosecuting attorneys.
CHR. KIMBALL: It looks like there's a lot of vacancies with hiring dates within
the near future. In fact, some between now and by the time we hear this again.
Again,just being cognizant about big pulls from the Fund Balance just because of
the uncertainty around the hazard pay and when that might be required. I just
want the opportunity to maybe have a deeper dialogue with you about if Fund
Balance has to be the place that we pull the funds to support these positions.
Because, fundamentally, if you say you need these positions, I'm okay with that.
My concern at this point is just the funding source and perhaps we're even
looking in other places where we have funded positions that are vacant that looks
like we're going to need three to six months to fill, and just kind of piecemeal that
together. But that's my ask of the maker, and just leave it at that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I'm happy to work with you, Prosecuting
Attorney and Business Administrator, and loop you into the conversation, Chair,
to see if there are other places within existing budget to draw funding from. But I
feel very strongly about ensuring that this office gets these positions. I really
appreciated you talking about there being equal presence in East and
West Hawaii and really building up the staff and capacity and the leadership on
the west side, because far too often claims are made that everything goes to
East Hawaii. And I know that you're very conscious about making sure that
there's a presence on both sides of the island.
You guys work a lot. I mean, I text you at 6 a.m. I text you at 11 p.m. You text
me back. You and your team are really working around the clock, and I just want
to make sure that we are making sure that you have time for some self-care and
aren't burning yourself out. Because I know you, Kelden. You make sure you
get the job done even if the folks aren't there, and I don't think that's fair. And so
I just want to make sure that you have every resource available to you.
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MR. WALTJEN: We appreciate that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for being here. I'll follow up. I'm
withdrawing this amendment. Thank you.
Withdraw Motion Ms. Kierkiewicz withdrew her motion to amend Bill 136,
to Amend: Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 755.20.
MR. WALTJEN: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: I appreciate the consideration, Council Member Kierkiewicz.
Motion to Amend: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to amend Bill 136,
Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 755.24. Seconded by
Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is another potential give to our Police
Department. This one's specific to some recent lifesaving activities that have
happened. And given that we are an island, and interestingly enough a lot of our
callsactually, it's not interesting. It's common sense. A lot of our calls come
down to responding to people who are in need of assistance in the ocean or in
water. And in speaking to our Police Department folks, the officers responding
on the Police side do not have any form of floatation tube or floatation device to
assist someone who is drowning or is in the process of drowning. So I was
actually blown away by that statement. And in researching it, it is true.
So this is a small give of 30,000. The quote was actually for $28,478 to provide a
floatation tube device to every single officer to have in their vehicle so that, in the
case that they are responding or the first responder to the scene, while they wait
for a Fire or for EMS, that they have this ability to give lifesaving preservation
tactics to someone who needs them. So, simple, straightforward. Not a big ask
and completely a public safety measure and something that I was very interested
to learn that we don't already offer. Look for everyone's support.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: I would like to ask the Police Chief if he's online. There he is. Hi.
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: Hello.
MS. EVANS: Hello. You're showing up great on the screen.
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: I've been listening all day.
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MS. EVANS: Question. Is the police that are out in the field trained and feeling
comfortable if we're going to ask them to do something that maybe is beyond
their scope? Want to make sure. I mean, you are union and you have to make
sure that we're covering it. But please advise.
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: That's a great point. There are situations we currently
experience where it's kind of on the margin where the officer feels like "You
know what, okay, maybe I have some ability but"they don't want to put
themselves at risk, and now we have two victims that a helicopter is going to have
to pluck from the ocean. So, to have something that would support them to make
that decision easier if that's something they feel comfortable with, or alternatively
something that they could toss or throw to someone who needed help, to help that
person stay afloat until more advanced apparatus or the Fire Department or
somebody else gets there, and he can get down a cliff into the ocean to fully
rescue someone. That would be the idea, that it's something that we could also
use as awe could project out to them to give them a chance as well.
MS. EVANS: The toss and throw makes more sense because I think people are
trained as lifeguards and trained to go out. Because people, when they're
drowning, can be acting crazy and being heavy and the currents, and there's all
kinds of danger when you're in the ocean. So I'm just wondering if just having a
device to throw to them.
The other side of it is I do know that at beachesI think it's on Kauai that has so
many dangerous beaches, they're actually putting out floating devices on the
ocean. They actually have them there for the public. Anybody can grab that
floating device or whatever and throw out to people. So I think there is something
being done in Kauai right now. So the public feels like they might be
empowered to help someone who's drowning but they don't go out. I don't
know. Fire Chief Todd, can you come up for a moment and maybe because I do
know that, I believe, Kaua`i's done that where they're giving the public theI
mean, they're setting them up on the beach. I don't know what that's called. I've
seen it on TV(television).
MR. TODD: Sorry, I was distracted by the Police Chief's shirt, which is
amazing. I just want to give him compliments for that,just a super awesome
shirt. So what was the question?
MS. EVANS: The question is, giving police patrol, when they're out, the ability
to at least maybe assist but not rescue. So maybe having floating devices. Like I
think in Kauai, I was thinking I've seen it on television where they set up these
kind of floating devices on the beaches there, and people can throw them but not
necessarily rescue someone. Because, don't you have to be trained?
MR. TODD: Usually, the devices, and we've set them up on our beaches here as
well, which brings its own problem because they get UV (ultraviolet) damage by
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sitting out in the sunlight. Most of those are Peterson buoys, which are a type of,
like Baywatch where the really ripped dude throws the strap over his shirt and
then runs out into the surf. The thing he's carrying with him is a Peterson buoy,
which gets wrapped around the person that they're rescuing. They don't get
thrown very far.
I think some of the things that are pushing this is that we recently had a woman
who passed away in Hawaiian Paradise Park off the cliffs. And one of the
concerns out of that was that she was hard to reach and hard to throw things to.
And one of the issues with the Peterson buoy is it's not great to throw. But there
are different systems out there that—through compressed CO2 (carbon dioxide)
or other things. And I think if you're able to fund the Police Department, they can
find a solution that would be appropriate for their officers to meet the need and
give them that solution.
I know, for our own department, we've been looking at the issue with the
firefighter who passed away in MauiTre'. And equipment relative to working
around water was something important to us as well, as well as our HPP
(Hawaiian Paradise Park) issue. So there's a variety of things we're looking at
right now, but definitely I think it's a pretty horrible feeling standing at the shore
watching somebody and not being able to do anything. So I'm all for it. And
then if we can assist our brothers in blue and having some additional capabilities,
because oftentimes it's a 50-50 shot of who's there first, I'm all for it.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Anything you want to add, Chief? Chief Ben?
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: No. That's pretty good. I think if we can get the funding,
we can find something that we can deploy pretty easily.
MS. EVANS: Okay, thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Anyone else? Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I'm definitely going to be supporting
this. After that really tragic drowning in Hawaiian Paradise Park, I met with folks
at Station 18 and also spoke to some leadership within the department. So we're
looking at getting some kind of device for that particular station. And when there
was a discussion around things like snorkel and masks because our firefighters
don't even have that, and floatation devices, it was impressed upon me the need to
ensure that there was proper training for those devices.
And I know it seems really obvious, common sense, right, "Just deploy the
floatation device,"but I also just want to make sure while that seems obvious,just
some kind of quick workshop training that is part of this equation. I know that
this is an amendment that is going to support the Police Department, but if you
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could just maybe, Fire Chief, because a question was asked of you,just the need
for some kind of training to support the introduction of these new devices within
the County.
MR. TODD: Definitely. The Fire Department itself has been doing a lot of
research recently, trying to look at what kind of products are out there and
considering buying a couple samples to try out and doing some testing. But one
of the things we definitely advocate for is giving someone a gun or something like
that without getting any training is probably not an ideal way to provide for
safety. So, heavily, we're an advocate for if we do come up with a solution,
which I think is going to be a big part this year. Last year, our funding was kind
of constrained.
I know from the Fire Department, one of the things that came out in the newest
budget was we were able to allocate money over for repair of our fire stations, and
that's going to be able to free up some of our internal funding that will allow us to
actually proceed in our direction down this route as well. But, definitely, I think
training is a key thing with anything that gets deployed. Otherwise, they're just
not going to use it when it comes time.
Our Peterson buoys require some time in the water every year, which we make all
of our personnel do just to maintain their certification. It's not as easy as it looks.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for that. I just humbly request that the Fire
Chief also look into some kind of training within this budget to ensure that folks
are able to deploy these floatation devices without compromising their safety in
these really risky situations. I know everybody really wants to be helpful when it
comes to an emergency situation. But again, I don't want anybody to adversely
put their lives at risk. I will be supporting this. Just wanting to make sure that
folks get the training. Thank you, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else?
Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Just real quick. Chief Moszkowicz, I'm
supportive of this. I'm just wondering. This seems like the kind of thing that
could easily be funded by a grant or something. It seems like this is something
people want to fund, and I'm just wondering do you know if that's a possibility
here?
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: It likely is. And if it's something that you folks are able
to fund and we—in December you had given us a grant manager and we're at the
final stages of getting somebody hired. If we can get grant money to reimburse us
for this, that will be money we will be able to pay forward to the County for next
year.
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MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Do you feel like it's something that possibly could
have grant money out there for?
MR. MOSZKOWICZ: It seems logical that that would be the case. I don't know
enough about the grants that are out there in the world to tell you yes or no, I'm
sorry.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, all right. Yeah. Like I said, I'm supportive of this
idea. Was this on your list at all, or is this another one of the "We talked to
friends and they said they wanted this"?
Point of Information: MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Point of information, Chair. Beyond talking
to friends, I talked to people in the department and this was their
MS. KAGIWADA: But I thought you said they were your friends.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: They're both.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But after learning more, that every single
officer who responds to calls does not have one of these in their car, I was blown
away. The folks that I know who serve the community show up to calls anywhere
and everywhere. We live on an island and there's no ability for our officers, like
Chief Todd said, other than to just watch and wait. And that is probably one of
the worst feelings you could ever experience. Thank you.
MS. KAGIWADA: Right. Okay. Yeah, I'm really supportive. I do really hear
what Council Member Kierkiewicz was saying. And I think training going along
with this obviously is super important. Just having the device without having the
training on how to use it, especially if it's one of these newer devices that maybe
everybody's not familiar with, wouldn't be all that helpful. So I guess I'm just
thinking that maybe if you're going to need to set up the training and you're going
to need to procure the things, I'm wondering if you can possibly do that with
another funding source. That's just my thought on that. Like I said, I am
supportive of getting the devices to you and making sure you have the training.
So, yeah. Thanks.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. I just wanted to take a quick
moment. This was actually on the front page of the (Honolulu) Star-Advertiser
today that Senate Bill 116, which was passed and signed by the Governor, allows
the counties to issue a special license plate and collect a fee that goes to the
Duke Kahanamoku Foundation to help with water safety efforts. So, when we
think about potential sources of ongoing funding for this program, I think that
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that's a potential for us. And just to note, I am looking at some of the vehicle
licensing fees with the Finance Department right now. So, now that this is
passed, it's another thing we can look at as a potential revenue source.
But I'm happy to support this today. I do think Council Member Evans has a
point, though, as well with regard to also looking at funding stationing lifesaving
devices at particularly, what do they call that, uncovered beaches where we don't
have a lifeguard on duty. I think that that's also something we might want to
consider. So this potential revenue stream for the future may exist. I'm going to
support this for today, but I think that's another thing we might want to look at
trying to find resources for in the future. With that, all those in favor of amending
Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of Communication 755.24, please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 755.24 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: Council Member Inaba— 1.
Absent: Council Member Villegas — 1.
Excused: None.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.25. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. This proposes to add funding in the budget for
fire captains at our Waikoloa station and the station in Hawaiian Paradise Park. I
believe these are the only stations in our entire department that do not have fire
captains as the head supervisor. And so this would actually fix this deficiency
and ensure that we have safe operations on the fire grounds and improved
efficiency within the department.
Currently, a fire equipment operator, or an FEO, is required to manage an
emergency incident in the event that there is no fire captain. So an FEO is
basically running incident management and having to pump their fire apparatus
on-scene. And so we're asking someone to wear two hats in these very tense
situations, putting folks essentially at risk. We've seen what's happened in the
Waikoloa vicinity. It's definitely one of those communities that is much more at
risk to brushbres.
And Hawaiian Paradise Park continues to be one of the fastest-growing
communities in the entire County. To put this in perspective, in 2012 there were
1,354 calls for service for that particular community. In 2022, the number jumped
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to 2,625. So a pretty significant increase. And I do know that folks that serve
within Station 18, HPP, they do serve the greater area of Council Districts 4 and
5. And I do know that, oftentimes, some of these folks that are stationed in Puna
stations actually have to respond to calls for service in the greater Hilo area. So
there is a significant need. Wanted to have this conversation. And, Chief Todd,
do want to make sure that I provide you an opportunity to weigh in on this.
CHR. KIMBALL: Before you do, Chief Todd,just want to check in with Corp.
(Corporation) Counsel. I remember you saying that this was the previous one
was not the one you were concerned with. I want to check in that, if this was the
one you're concerned with, and it is. Okay. Could you come up and before we
have the commentary from Chief Todd, I just want to make sure we're okay on
the language.
MS. STRANCE: Good afternoon. Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. Yes,
the concern about this particular amendment is in the second to the last full
paragraph. If this amendment passes, the six fire positions, which have not been
officially created yet, will be listed under New Positions in Section 3 of the bill.
And so inasmuch as this body cannot create new positions, if passed, should
simply be placed as an increase in the salary and wages and benefits portions of
the budget to be allocated later once the positions are created.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Judge Strance, for that. I do have LRB
(Legislative Research Branch)processing another version of this amendment,
which removes that sentence.
MS. STRANCE: Perfect. Thanks.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Chief Todd?
CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead. We'll continue the dialogue on this one since I
understand we have a revised version coming, with the understanding that that
will correct the legal issue.
MR. TODD: So a couple things. One of the concerns, obviously, is the creation
of position numbers. It should be noted the Fire Department does have unfunded
position numbers under Bargaining Unit 11 that we could upward allocate. They
were created in the previous fiscal year under sort of the result of our audit, and
created as unfunded as we were going to proceed down that route. Difficulties in
just not having enough firefighter positions, and if we created those positions and
started funding them, we would have ran into some severe issues in terms of
staffing out on the line.
So we were working this year with some requested increased staffing and looking
at ways of dealing with that before we proceeded down that route. But I do have
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those position numbers. They're already created. So, if the funding did come
through, it's mostly an action with Department of Human Resources to take the
existing numbers and then upward allocate them to the proper location.
Other questions that had come up previously had been about vacancies. And on
our operational side for the fire perspective, in August I'll be hiring somewhere
between nine and fourteen personnel, depending on how many people retire
between now and then. Right now, I have nine vacancies and we potentially have
UP to two retirements, which might make our class of 11 will essentially fill our
entire operational staffing to the max. (maximum). So we will have zero
vacancies in terms of our operational response side.
The one thing I would probably want permission for is while I am very happy for
the amendment, which addresses Supplemental No. 12 under our list of millions
and millions of dollars of asks, one of the issues we do have unfortunately with
the Hawaiian Paradise Park station is that it hasn't actually had the construction
project that was supposed to expand the station a little bit. So, right now, I have
four personnel in a very small two-bedroom station, and those bedrooms are tiny.
Potentially, under Supplemental 9, we were trying to also get battalion chief
positions. We could use the same amount of funding and just upward allocate
potentially three of those positions to battalion chiefs and three to captains. And
this ties back into our management of those major incidents. One of the concerns
that our battalion chiefs had raised during major responses is that they just get
overwhelmed and that they're pretty much out there by themselves trying to
manage literally half-an-island's worth of resources.
So, when you're going into the definition of a fire battalion chief, they generally
manage between three and eight fire stations, and that's the national model,
essentially. Currently, my battalion chiefs are each managing ten-plus of our
volunteer stations, of which we have another 18 basically divided halfway. So, on
any given incident, they could have 18 stations' worth of equipment that they're
supposed to be the boss of. So, one of the concerns is that we're not even limited
to just one major incident going on at a given time on one side of the island.
So, if it would please the Council, one of the things we would like is we're
looking at six positions with some ability to try to figure out what would work
and what we can get DHR(Department of Human Resources) to sign off on, and
at the existing amount within that amendment would be ideal. But I will also take
six captains if that is what is decided. So any position is a wonderful thing as far
as the Fire Department is concerned.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chief. Again, today is about having the
conversation and hearing from my colleagues. What is being done to ensure that
Hawaiian Paradise Park is renovated so that it can accommodate a key position
like a fire captain?
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MR. TODD: So, at the moment, we were intending to move our personnel out of
Station 1 to the warehouse but it was not compliant with current building codes
under Category 4 for the risk analysis, which requires it to basically be a building
that survives any earthquake, tsunami, hurricane kind of a thing. And it's a
warehouse, so it doesn't meet that. In that review process, it was also noted that
the work that was being pulled for the Hawaiian Paradise Park station would
also—it's also an essential facility in theory, and would also not meet the
requirements of the Risk Category 4. And so that halted all progress on that
particular project.
And part of this comes back to, essentially, our department started with volunteer
stations and we took them over. So those stations are often just houses. You go
to North Kohala, it's a house. A good number of our stations, they're just
noncompliant as far as what a facility that's supposed to survive an earthquake
and a hurricane and whatever else that might happen on our island, and then still
be able to provide services, they don't meet that need. But we still need to add a
little bit of space and continue on until our CIP systems and our program
management will allow us to build newer, more compliant stations.
So, in the meantime, we are working on an MOA (Memorandum of Agreement)
that basically has been going back and forth between legal and DPW to say that
the Fire Department does not care if the building meets Category 4. We would
just like the work done, and as I understand it, that is proceeding along that route.
And the finer details on the fire wall that needs to maybe be installed between us
and our existing vehicle storage or the potential of maybe building another vehicle
storage that is 20 feet away, because we're not supposed to have fire trucks within
20 feet of our existing house, is still being discussed. I don't know when we'll get
the station expanded or changed. I'm hopeful within a year we'll see the start of
the work.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I think both Stations 1 and 18 have been a problem since
before I was even on the Council_ It just pains me that there's no solution. It
really feels like, Public Works, I know they're trying, but it just feels like rather
than saying, "Here's what we can do,"there's a lot of"Well, we just can't do it."
And I recall, during budget hearings, that Division Chief said that an MOA wasn't
necessary. Anyway, I'd like to find a way to move forward only because I think
these leadership positions for Waikoloa and HPP are so critical for the stats
(statistics) that I shared earlier, but do understand that you have a need for
battalion chiefs because the ones that are currently online are stretched pretty thin
to provide coverage for double the amount of stations that NFPA standards
prescribe.
MR. TODD: Yeah. The concept, too, is that they'd have overlapping districts
where basically if one caught a major incident, the closest battalion chief to him
would also respond. So we'd have two: one that could handle the actual
operational side, and one can handle the support side of that nature, in terms of
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bringing in additional resources and contracting with dozers, establishing the ICS
(Incident Command System)teams and managing all the back end to make sure
things are functioning, so that the guy who's there who normally just functions
and manages the operations is getting all the support they actually need to make
sure things work. So that's one of the things we're looking to try and establish.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I appreciate it. I'd like to hear from my
colleagues. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Anyone else on this item? Okay. Seeing none, I'll just make
the comment, obviously this needs to be pulled right now. When do you
anticipate the—is this the new oneoh, look at this magic. Nice in form. All
right. So, Council Member, if you wouldn't mind making the motion to
withdraw.
Withdraw Motion Ms. Kierkiewicz withdrew her motion to amend Bill 136,
to Amend: Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 755.25.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 136, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 755.26. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz. Presume that this is identical
with just the one phrase removed.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: (Inaudible.)
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. We're good.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Just want to make sure everyone's looking at the
right draft, 755.26. It removes the sentence that Corporation Counsel had noted
earlier was raising concerns based on authority granted to Mayor versus
legislative body. Back to the discussion. Again, look forward to hearing
feedback from my colleagues. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Conversation? Council Member Galimba and then Vice
Chair Inaba.
MS. GALIMBA: I don't doubt the need for these personnel, but it sounds like
there might be some need for preparation or infrastructure to support. And it is a
big ask, given our uncertainties around the overtime, so will not be supporting.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. For the Finance Department. This would put the
funds there. And I guess maybe for the Administration because I'd like to know,
if the funds are put in there, are the positions actually going to be created.
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MS. NAKAGAWA: Sorry, I was walking up here. Could you please repeat?
MR. INABA: Sure. This amendment funds positions that don't exist yet. If this
was to pass, would the Administration actually create the positions? I didn't see
Managing Director back there, I'm sorry. So, yeah, maybe a question for
Managing Director, sorry. She was hiding right behind Chief Todd's head.
MR. TODD: Are you saying I have a big head? Wow!
MR. INABA: I didn't say that.
MR. TODD: There's not even any hair to hide stuff.
MS. SAKO: That's true. Sorry. I will say that Fire Department's a little bit
different situation, because Chief Todd did mention they have several positions
they created before but never utilized. So we would work with them. And if
those positions are needed for something else, then we would work with them to
come in and create the positions if these are funded.
MR. INABA: Got it. Okay, thank you. Just wanted that on the record.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Anyone else? Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. I just—go back. I thought I heard you say that
you don't really have space for these folks.
MR. TODD: Well, in particular, the concept—we list every issue and we actually
mark, in our supplementals, often three, six, any multiple of three. We run three
shifts. So, to get one firefighter, one driver, one captain, I actually need three,
which makes everything three times as expensive for some reason. But,
ultimately, in this particular supplemental request,which is at our No. 12 on our
total list, we'd ask for either three or six. And we're very happy to have the offer
of potentially six.
But one of the issues that, when this was going back together in September, was
we'd expected work to be starting and moving ahead a little sooner than at the
moment. And so, at the Paradise Park Station, I lack. I could throw a bunk bed in
there. It would be the only bunk bed we have in the entire Fire Department, but I
mean we could—we'll shove a guy in there. But one of the things is we do have
Supplemental No. 9, which had asked for a battalion chief.
So there are newer physical stations I have that have more room. It's just the
Paradise Park Station in particular, which had a project due for it to expand it a
little bit to make some additional room because of the fact that we had added an
ambulance there a number of years ago. And when we added the ambulance, we
already had run into space issues as we went from two personnel to four
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personnel, and now it's a little bit tight with four people in there. So adding a
fifth makes it even harder. There's other stations, like Laupahoehoe, for example,
where we added a third person last year and they want them, but at the same time
they complained bitterly because there's one toilet and there's three people
sharing it. Honoka`a is also the same with one toilet and five personnel there
six personnel.
I have a lot of facilities that are somewhat undersized. I'd love more people but
I'm maxed out in certain locations right now. But I do have space in other
stations. One of the things, like we'd ask for in the very—our No. 1 had been
firefighters, and we'd ask up to 18. And that was basically on the fact that there
were about six stations where I could theoretically shove additional people. And
as people were off or on vacation, they could be moved around or things like that.
That was pretty much our capacity at that point before we'd build new buildings,
really.
And so, right now, while six captains is great and I will entirely take them and I'll
throw a bunk bed in there and we'll figure it out, alternatively three layers up on
our supplemental request, one of the major asks from our battalion chiefs was just
that they feel overwhelmed on these major incidents. So having an additional
battalion chief that could come up and work them with the fire was one of those
things that had been asked for that made its way into our list and ranked in our top
ten.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Once again, I just have a little bit of heartburn about
this, the way a very hefty, big lift is being put in here without our normal way of
going through with having the public informed ahead of time, since these are
coming in as we're sitting here, and for people to weigh in on them. It commits
us to ongoing positions, not just this coming year but ongoing. So I have some
issues just with that. I can understand that you have a need here and that you have
need for facilities as well, it sounds like. I'm not sure that getting the people and
shoving them in where you don't have space is the way to go first. But, anyway,
some issues here. But I hear your need.
MR. TODD: High need.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, thank you. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Well, if you got these, you still have to fill the positions. Now,
would that come or would that be promotions, but then you'd still have to fill
positions?
MR. TODD: So I have active lists, or I willbasically, our promotional
processes creates lists that lasts a year. So I have an active captain list right now
that will expire June 30'', and July 1"a new active list for captains will have been
generated. I have an active list for battalion chiefs. So pretty much immediately
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upon approval, once the funds are in the bank. August 1st, we have a next recruit
class. We just bring on the additional positions. So, if there's three positions
funded, we add three more recruits and promotions go through. If it's six
positions, then six more recruits are brought on, and we're still at max capacity in
terms of our total operational staffing. We'll have zero vacancies as of August lst
We are tuned very well to adapt to "no matter what happens,"would be my
takeaway from that.
MS. EVANS: I was just thinking out of the box. It's harder to get people, I
would think, than buildings and maybe I'm wrong. But there is temporary
shelters. We're building them for homeless. Obviously, there is a way right now
in this County for putting up temporary shelters. They're very small, the hales.
There's a lot of stuff, and it just makes me wonder if this is this is for sleeping,
right?
MR. TODD: Our biggest issue is, under the Building Code, fire stations fall
under Risk Category 4, which basically makes them have to have fire alarms,
sprinkler systems, earthquake protection. They need to be wind loaded. The
garage doors need to be missile-proof from windborne debris.
The expectations for new structures or if we go in and renovate a structure, is that
we're going to bring it up to Code, and it is not a small lift, unfortunately. We're
building just like we're building our shelters for the community, with some of
our gyms where we're rating them for Category 4 hurricanes and things like that.
And they make it very expensive.
Our new Dispatch Center going up the road here is a good example; $33 million
dumped into that. But part of it is because the walls and the building and the
windows has to be considered, like "Hey, if the worst happens, this building still
needs to be functional." So part of the problem is when we sit down with the
Building Department to do work, it quickly starts scaling away. They would not
allow us to just throw an extra room out in the back or a temporary shelter or
anything like that. Anything on the property would qualify under that fire station
category, and they will require it to have engineering, wind load calculations, be
earthquake braced, have fire sprinkler systems and fire alarms, the whole nine
yards.
MS. EVANS: So does an expansion trigger the whole entire building to be
upgraded?
MR. TODD: So, in Paradise Park, where we're running into issues, the Memo A
that we were putting together committed the Fire Department to having a fire
alarm and a sprinkler put into the building in addition to basically waiving the
need for the building to have the wind loading stuff, because it was just basically
impossible to retrofit a building of that type. But we would meet some of the
intent behind it, and also, we would be categorizing the building as a disposable
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building. It gets funky. And that is that conversation that we've been
continuously having with DPW. I can't foresee them allowing us to put up temp.
(temporary) structures and other stuff, and the easy and simple-to-have solutions,
unfortunately.
MS. EVANS: Is your plumbing allowed by Code to add a new person?
MR. TODD: I don't want to get into that one. We're running into issues with
installing our washing machine extractors because of the PFAs (Per- and
Polyfluoroalkyl Substances) issues and yeah, it's
MS. EVANS: I guess I'm just going to close on this part of my questioning, that
you have a needs assessment by facility so we as the Council know the heavy lift
of how much you've got to do and maybe come up with a strategy on how to filter
this.
MR. TODD: I will work on a document for you guys just like that fleet
replacement so that you can have that in front of you. We do have a variety of
CIP projects that are on the list. Mainly, we've been tackling the larger issues.
It's not to say that the Fire Department just sits here and hopefully waits for
someone to solve our problem. We've been meeting with HI-EMA (Hawai`i
Emergency Management Agency) to talk about our Waiakea Fire Station and
Central Fire Station, which are in tsunami inundation areas, about how we can
secure Federal funding. I have a million dollar ask in to Case for a design of a
new Central Fire Station.
We've got grants coming in under our FMAG (Fire Management Assistance
Grant) from two years ago to deal with generators and automatic transfer supplies
for about five of our stations to bring them up to Code. We have the work for the
Pahala Fire Station that actually went out for bid and was accepted, and hopefully,
we'll finally be moving ahead. We've only identified that back in 2006 as
needing a new roof. So they're finally going to do it.
MS. EVANS: Okay, we can stop there.
MR. TODD: Okay.
MS. EVANS: Okay, the point being is it really I think would help us. And then
my last question is for Member Lee Loy. Would this help us with insurance if we
get our Police and fire stations, that they too need emergency these Building
Codes—so that they're protected during any natural disaster? Do you think that
would help with insurance? Sue?
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MS. LEE LOY: So, for insurance coverage, it's in relationship to where the fire
station is to that property owner, which is why, strategically, they've stationed fire
stations within a five-mile radius of each other. Or that is the goal. Correct, Fire
Chief?
MR. TODD: It's a mixture of things. I would say insurance falls under a couple
different things. One is the old model, which ran under basically water within
about a thousand feet of the structure, and a fire station within about five minutes
or five miles away.
MS. LEE LOY: Our response time, yeah.
MR. TODD: Newer insurance companies that are large enough no longer run off
of that data because they have enough internal data; GEICO being a good
example, where they just look at how many customers they have and how many
insurance claims they're having, and they make decisions based off that. But
we're running into issues on the west coast where you're having these massive
fires, similar to Lahaina, that wipe out entire communities. So California has
actually created a section where they are funding the fire portion of the insurance
through tax.
MS. LEE LOY: Through government.
MR. TODD: Yeah, and then regular
CHR. KIMBALL: I don't want to go too deep into the insurance question I think,
because the amendment before us is positions. So, yes/no, will these additional
positions help us at all in the insurance picture?
MS. LEE LOY: Not in the portfolio of what an insurance company is looking for.
MS. EVANS: Okay. That's the question. Thank you. Thank you for the clarity,
and thank you
MR. TODD: On the battalion chief side, they may help us prevent one of those
major issues. So that is something I think that's extremely important. If we're
talking about our August 8h fires in Lahaina, having competent people that are
able to manage that load makes a difference.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Any further discussion? Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Chief, I want to be certain that an MOA
absolving the risk that you mentioned, the risk and concern Public Works was
bringing up, is being developed and currently being reviewed by their Corporation
Counsel.
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MR. TODD: So, Chief Chadwick wrote it at my request. We were waiting for
DPW to generate it, and I told him "Just do it yourself." So he wrote it. It was
sent over. Some amendments were made. I've seen the copy of it. It seems to be
moving along.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And is there a time frame for that?
MR. TODD: I'm hoping
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: If the MOA is executed, then we can move forward with
dorm expansion. Then there's room for additional personnel, and just people
there now to live more comfortably.
MR. TODD: I think if we can get the MOA done in the next couple months, we
could see the project starting in the next six to twelve months, and maybe
completion within a two-year time frame.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. That's really helpful.
MR. TODD: I am guesstimating those numbers,just throwing it out there based
on previous construction and other stuff. Arguably, our Dispatch Center, which is
a much bigger project, started six years ago, and we're going to be completing
here sometime in the late summer, early fall maybe. That's a much bigger
project. Smaller projects like our Pahala roof went out for bid, and I'd estimate
within a year it'll be completed.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Thanks for that sort of high-level time frame.
Chair, I'm happy to hear any other final comments, but again, I just want to make
sure that there's space for our personnel. And so wanted to introduce this to not
only illustrate the need for personnel, but also to highlight the fact that we have to
make sure we have facilities to put our people into. If you have any comments?
If not, I will be withdrawing.
CHR. KIMBALL: No. No additional comments. I think the discussion was
useful and highlighted a couple concerns, so appreciate that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks. Chair. I'll be withdrawing the motion.
Withdraw Motion Ms. Kierkiewicz withdrew her motion to amend Bill 136,
to Amend: Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 755.26.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, thank you. I believe that brings us to the end of
amendments for today. Am I correct? Am I missing anyone's? All right, good.
Excellent. All right, we are now back to the main motion. Bill 136, Draft 2, as
amended and further amended. Any further discussion on the budget Draft 2,
now Draft 3?
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Point of Information: MS. LEE LOY: Just a point of information because I'm kind of keeping a
running total. Do you have all the amendment numbers that have passed?
CHR. KIMBALL: I can provide those. Yes.
MS. LEE LOY: Not here on the record, but yeah.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, great.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. I think our very astute Vice Chair probably has
kept track.
MR. INABA: I haven't this year but I know our Finance Director has. So,
Director, if you could just give us that final number on the record, please. Thank
you.
MS. NAKAGAWA: So thank you to our budget team. With the amendments
that passed today, that is an additional 968,227.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. Just wanted that on the record and ahead of our
next hearing, for everyone to keep in mind. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair and Director. All right, any further
discussion? All right, all those in favor of approving at first reading Bill 136,
Draft 2, as further amended to Draft 3, please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 136: The motion to pass Bill 136, Draft 2, as amended to
Draft 3 Draft 3, on first reading and adopt Finance Committee
(Approved) Report No. 152 was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball–9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: We will take a recess here for about 15 minutes, and let's just
all remember fondly Council Member Richards, who always used to vote a
protest"no." I was looking at you, but—let's take a brief recess before we get to
the capital budget till five after four. We're in recess.
Recess: At 3:54 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
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Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 4:07 p.m.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Aloha, it is 4:07 and bringing this meeting back to
order. I have assumed the Chair after Chair Kimball's departure.
Bill 137: RELATES TO PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR
THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2024, TO JUNE 30, 2025
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated March 1, 2024, transmitting the proposed
Capital Budget for FY 2024-2025 and the Capital Improvements Program for
the next six years from Fiscal Year 2024-2025 to 2029-2030, which includes
57 projects requiring a total appropriation of$392,335,000 of which $307,513,000
are intended to be funded in whole or part by bonds, $42,410,000 to be funded by
Federal Grants, $41,462,000 to be funded by the State Revolving Loan Fund or
State Capital Improvement Projects, and $950,000 to be funded by Community
Benefit Assessments and other funds.
Reference: Comm. 756
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
Approve: FC-153
Public Hearing: May 14, 2024
and
Comm. 756.1: From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated May 3, 2024, transmitting Bill 137, Draft 2,
which adds 4 projects for a total of 61 projects and an increase of$103,500,000 in
appropriations over the first draft.
; and
Bill 137: RELATES TO PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR
(Draft 2) THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2024, TO JUNE 30, 2025
Draft 2 requires a total appropriation of$495,835,000, of which $411,013,000 are
intended to be funded in whole or part by bonds, $42,410,000 to be funded by
Federal Grants, $41,462,000 to be funded by the State Revolving Loan Fund, and
$950,000 to be funded by Community Benefit Assessments and other funds.
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
and
Comm. 756.2: From Council Member Michelle M. Galimba, dated May 6, 2024, transmitting a
(Memo No. 1) proposed amendment to add the Animal Control's South Hawaii Animal Control
Facility project in the amount of$2.5 million.
; and
Comm. 756.3: From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated May 6, 2024, transmitting a
(Memo No. 2) proposed amendment to add the Parks and Recreation Department's
James "Jimmy" Correa Ballfield Upgrades project in the amount of$1 million.
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; and
Comm. 756.4: From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated May 6, 2024, transmitting a
(Memo No. 3) proposed amendment to replace the Project Data/Financial Impact Statement form
for the Parks and Recreation Department's Hilo Skate Park project in the amount
of$5 million.
; and
Comm. 756.5: From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated May 8, 2024, transmitting a
(Memo No. 4) proposed amendment to reappropriate the Parks and Recreation Department's
Hawaiian Paradise Park District Park project in the amount of$5 million.
; and
Comm. 756.6: From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated May 8, 2024, transmitting a
(Memo No. 5) proposed amendment to reappropriate the Office of Housing and Community
Development's Pahoa Village Sidewalk Improvement project in the amount of
$2 million.
(Note: Communication Nos. 756.7 through 756.9,transmitting proposed
amendments to Bill 137, Draft 2, were circulated.)
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 137 on first
reading and adopt Finance Committee Report No. 153.
Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Pursuant to Article 10, Section 10-2 of the Hawaii
County Charter, the Mayor has submitted the capital budget on May 3rd. And a
reminder: We need to amend Draft 1 with the Mayor's proposed Draft 2 before
we can discuss any of the amendments. Is there any discussion on Draft 1 before
we amend to Draft 2? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for reminding
me of the correct motion, and, too, for the body, I reached out to Planning
Director Kern to be present at today's hearing. Is he online through Zoom?
ACTING CHR. INABA: Right now, we don't have Director Kern or a Planning
representative.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That was understood from the emails
I received. My purpose in requesting his presence today was to provide us with a
standing of our current capital improvement budget, as well as our proposed
capital improvement budget, to provide us with the outcomes and measurables
that we have been requesting, and to give us a basis on what projects we are
taking on, what projects we are in the works for, and where we're headed as a
county. He did give, two times today, he was not available this afternoon. I
believe that is truly unfortunate, that the person in charge of our Department of
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Planning was not able to provide these things to us today. I'm making that
statement to put on the record. And thank you for those of the Administration that
were here.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. And I would hope that you can work with
the Planning Department to perhaps provide that information for our second and
final reading of the budget. So, with that, is there any further discussion on
Draft 1? If not, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, a motion to amend Bill 137 with the
proposed Draft 2, as submitted by the Mayor via Communication 756.1, please.
Vote on Motion to Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to amend Bill 137 with
Amend: the contents of Comm. 756.1. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy
(Approved) and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Kimball — 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: We have now Bill 137, Draft 2, as provided by the
Mayor.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Galimba moved to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the
contents of Comm. 756.2. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. So this is a much-needed animal control facility.
It's a new project. As we all know, we have a lot of issues in my district with
animal control, and we have never ever had an animal control facility or Humane
Society facility in the district. So this is long overdue, and I am very grateful that
we have an Animal Control and Protection Agency now and an administrator to
work with to make this happen. This is for the long-term approach, and also
working with Administrator Runnells on short-term strategies as well. Asking for
my colleagues' support.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Any discussion? Lights going on. All
right. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. In support of the amendment.
Much-needed. I spoke with Council Member Galimba just in this meeting today
regarding this. I really do feel like this is a long-overdue facility. We've talked
about this for years at the Council, but this has never managed to find its way onto
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the capital improvement budget. So, well done to the Council Member and I'll be
supporting this. And just a great opportunity for the community, and looking
forward to seeing what Animal Control can get done in the next few years.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Administrator Runnells, can you come to
the table, please?
(Note: At this time, Animal Control and Protection Administrator
Matthew Runnells came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MS. KAGIWADA: So supportive, obviously. So needed down the south part of
our island. Just wondering, do you have any sense of what this is going to take to
staff this up once this gets up and running?
MR. RUNNELLS: Yes. As far as personnel goes, it is going to be a much
smaller scale then what the east facility is. So probably half as many people will
have to staff that one. This money is just basically as a temporary. It's to
purchase the property to put in a temporary facility, and then for the planning of a
future building that would go on that same property.
MS. KAGIWADA: Right. But once we have a temporary facility, we can
actually staff up down there, and we'll need to staff up down there. Correct?
MR. RUNNELLS: Yes. Yup.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. So half as much as what's in East Hawaii. Just to get
a full picture, the other places we're still staffing up now are Waimea?
MR. RUNNELLS: Waimea is also in the works as well. So it's not completely
as far as—in the works to be staffed in the future. So between those two facilities,
we'll have to put through further personnel and for staffing, yes.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, are we basically going to double your workforce
between those two?
MR. RUNNELLS: Probably not double. The east and the west facilities are
going to have the most manned power as far as personnel goes, and then the north
and south facilities are going to have about half that number. So it won't quite
double it, but it will definitely increase the numbers quite a bit.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Well, yeah, looking forward to figuring, you know,
seeing how you figure out strategies to do that. Still trying, I know, to staff up
with what you have. But, clearly, we need to kind of attack this issue in multiple
ways.
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MR. RUNNELLS: Yeah, I'm trying to tackle it in multiple stages because the
first part is obviously to try to get those individual facilities, and even just from
the tackling of personnel. Each individual area has their own individual
challenges with staffing, even in the current County facilities that are in those
areas.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada, and for
everyone, I just want to make sure we are able to get through this in an efficient
manner so we can really focus our discussion on the specific project being
addressed in each of the amendments. But, Council Member Kagiwada, continue.
MS. KAGIWADA: That's pretty much it. And I just felt like that had to be
addressed for the public. If we're going to build a facility, we also know we're
going to plan to staff it. Okay, thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. For a long time, I felt this island, with the challenges
of how big it is, should be thought of as four regional areas. I do support this.
And also getting back to Waimea, their shelter, which has closed down and it's a
disaster up there now because it doesn't exist. Having a shelter in the region to
draw from I would hope would help you get staff because they could live closer to
where they work. But also, raise what we talked about earlier, the awareness of
the microchipping and the spay and neuter, whatever programs we have just
really, really having that presence. And I have to say there is an explosion of
puppies and kittens going on right now, and we're feeling it. And I bet it's going
on everywhere. So, having you out there getting this up and going as fast as we
can I think will be really good for the health and welfare of our island.
MR. RUNNELLS: I agree.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I strongly support.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. There's a motion on the floor to amend
Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of Communication 756.2. All those in favor,
please say "aye."
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Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 756.2 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba–8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Kimball – 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Before we take up the next amendment—thank you,
AdministratorI would like to call the Finance Director up real quick just to
recap the concept of the CIP budget for those watching in the public, and
understanding how this budget works and what is actually funded. So, Director
Nakagawa.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Diane Nakagawa came forward to
address the members of the Council.)
MS. NAKAGAWA: Absolutely. Thank you, Council Member. Our CIP, as
presented, establishes the appropriation for these projects. An allotment would
establish the funding. So that would be the next phase. But the document in front
of you with these projects establishes the appropriation.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. So it's not real money. It's providing the
framework by which we can actually
MS. NAKAGAWA: Not yet funded. Some have identified grant funding and
some other funding sources, but it takes the next step to get the funding allotted.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. I just want expectations of the public to be
realistic with what the CIP budget actually is.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Absolutely. Thank you for that.
ACTING CHR. INABA: With that, we'll take up the next amendment.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Lee Loy moved to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the
contents of Comm. 756.3. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Really excited to add this one. House
Bill 1800, our State House Representative Chris Todd identified a million dollars
for upgrades in this facility as long as we brought the County match. So this
actually establishes the project, and later on we'll go ahead and move the State
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money in and maybe do some bonds to help fund this project. But I really want to
walk out a lot of thanks to my colleagues, including Council Member Kierkiewicz
who cosponsored the naming of this facility, which started a lot of the
conversation for these dollars. So, look forward to my colleagues' support.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Any further discussion? All those in favor
of amending Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of Communication 756.3, please
say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 756.3 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Kimball — 1.
Excused: None.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Lee Loy moved to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the
contents of Comm. 756.4. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, look forward to my colleagues' support, but I think
Ms. Kagiwada has a lot more to share on this one. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Just, once again,the HiloI'm starting to call it
the Hilo skate complex because it really is more than your average skate park.
What we're looking at is something that can be a whole recreation area for the
whole family and for our whole island, and even for State and other things. So it
is pricier than other skate parks have been, but it's going to really be something.
This project also got a million dollars through the State CIP program through our
State Representative Chris Todd. We need to do a match. So part of that
5 million is a match to the 1 million. And the other part is needed to complete the
project. Looking forward to Parks and Rec. (Recreation) has been just working
away on this. Looking forward to the day we actually break ground. They've got
it fenced off. Moving ahead. Just have to thank my colleague Council Member
Lee Loy who has carried this for many years, and it ended up being just on the
other side of her district, in District 2. But it really is part of the whole complex
there and will be something great for the whole island I think. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. There being no further discussion, all those
in favor of amending Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Communication 756.4,please say "aye."
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Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 756.4 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Kimball — 1.
Excused: None.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 756.5. Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. We were able to secure some funding
to complete an environmental assessment for the Hawaiian Paradise Park district
park. Now that that process has been completed, wanted to make sure that there
was a line item in the CIP budget for park development. My understanding is that
there might be some investment granting from our State legislators to help with
the build-out of the park. So just want to be in a position to receive those funds
and get ready for legislative session next year.
Just looking for everyone's support on this Hawaiian Paradise Park. It's a
growing community and the nearest park facilities are either in Hilo or Pahoa. It
takes a lot to get out into these communities because there's so much traffic. So
having something a little bit closer to home that provides recreational access for
keiki, kupuna, even pets, would be tremendous. Hoping that this park could also
serve as a community center for larger gatherings. But, in the event of a natural
disaster, it can also be mobilized to provide emergency shelter and distribution of
information and supplies in the event that that's necessary. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Any further discussion? There being none,
all those in favor of amending Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Communication 756.5,please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 756.5 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Kimball — 1.
Excused: None.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 756.7. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
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Hawaii County Council-39 May 16,2024
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: It's been a long day, y'all. Thank you. This isso, 756.7
is a reappropriation. We've been talking a lot about Fire today. This is a
reappropriation to ensure either expansion or new build-out of a fire station in
Hawaiian Paradise Park. Like I mentioned, it is a growing community; there are a
lot of needs. And so we need to ensure that there is proper infrastructure in place
for our career personnel to be stationed so that they can be available to answer
emergency calls in a timely fashion.
I'm glad to hear that there's progress being made to expand this facility. But just
want to make sure that this is on the books so that in the event that there might be
State or Federal money available, we can receive it and put that money to use.
Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. And I just want to make sure everyone is
on the same page. We are on Communication 756.7. Is there any further
discussion? If not, all those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 756.7 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Kimball — 1.
Excused: None.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 756.8. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. This actually is a project idea that's coming
out of the Crime Prevention Summit our office convened in August of last year.
Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and I used to share Pahoa Town, and then
after redistricting, it became all of my kuleana. But he and I have been
advocating for a long time where there's to be sidewalk improvements in Pahoa
Town just so that it's safe for our keiki, our community, walking throughout
Pahoa. As part of the crime summit, we have identified improvements to the built
environment to prevent crime and youth empowerment. And having the ability
for folks to just kind of walk safely through town is really important.
So I actually have a meeting with Public Works next week to kind of talk about
how we start actually moving on the planning and design process for this, because
it's been a long-standing challenge but also a need within our community.
Looking for everyone's support. Thank you.
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ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Any further discussion? There being none,
all those in favor of amending Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Communication 756.8,please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 756.8 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Kimball — 1.
Excused: None.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Evans moved to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the
contents of Comm. 756.9. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Really ask everyone to support this community of
Waikoloa that is growing by leaps and bounds. When I talk to Zendo Kern about
it, he keeps reminding me it's the only place that really has the water and also a
lot of land that had already gotten its entitlements. And so there's lots that are
undeveloped.
We have a lot of action going out in Waikoloa. The County has over 200 acres
they're in the middle of developing. Our Council has appropriated the funding for
the road on that 200-and-some acres, and it's going out to bid this year. And then
shortly thereafter, they're going to be inviting affordable housing builders to come
and present proposals.
We have a lot of affordable housing projects that have been built, have been
opened. Last year, we had one that opened 140 new units. We have a developer
that came in, and he's putting in 500 apartment units. He's already built out over
200. He's in the process of building more. When you talk to the teacher of the
elementary school, she's just in a panic because all of her first, second, third grade
classesI mean, she's just exploding.
So, if you go to the community, you realize their recreation facilities are very
underdeveloped. So I'm asking support to do this gymnasium. I did not
understand till James Komata told me that when you now have gathering spaces
of over I think it's 150 maybe people in a public building, you now have to build
it to hurricane standards. And so this will be also a hurricane shelter.
I think this is really good for South Kohala, given that we have a minimum of
12,000 visitors down at the Waikoloa Village Resort area right below Waikoloa.
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This potentially is really supporting a huge amount of people, maybe twenty-
some-thousand people in the area. If there's problems like a natural disaster or
whatever, it would be there.
But also Waikoloa's got over 7,000. Soon it will probably be over 9,000, and
they don't have a gym. I go up to Waimea and they have six gyms in Waimea,
and Waimea is 12 miles away. And so I'm asking for your support and thank
you. Getting it going.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Any further
discussion? All those in favor of amending Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Communication 756.9,please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 137, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 756.9 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Kimball — 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: I don't think we have any other amendments right now.
So, Mr. Clerk, can we do a roll call vote on Bill 137, Draft 2, as amended?
Vote on Bill 137: The motion to pass Bill 137, Draft 2, as amended to
Draft 3 Draft 3, on first reading and adopt Finance Committee
(Approved) Report No. 153 was carried by the following roll call vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Kimball — 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Before our adjournment, we would like to share that
our second and final reading of the budget will take place on May 30'', and invite
the public to participate in any of our chambers or remote locations.
OTHER The Acting Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
BUSINESS: Other Business.
(There were none.)
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Hawai`i County Council-39 May 16,2024
ANNOUNCE- The Acting Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
MENTS: Announcements.
(There were none.)
ADJOURN- There being no further business,Acting Chair Inaba adjourned the meeting at
MENT: 4:34 p.m.
Council Approval: AUG 07 2024
COUN Y CL RK
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•
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