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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PCPLUD 2024/08/06 (2022-2024)Policy Committee on Planning, Land Use, and Development 18' Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii August 6, 2024 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Policy Committee on Planning, Land Use, and ORDER: Development was called to order at 10:00 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair Ms. Cindy Evans, Member (via videoconference from Kona) Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference from Kona) Absent & Excused: Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair Mr. Matt Kdneali'i-Kleinfelder, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) CHR. KlERKIEWICZ: If we could please proceed with Communications. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 948: REQUESTS THE FORMATION OF AN AD HOC COMMITTEE PURSUANT TO COUNCIL RULE NO. 7 AND SECTION 92-2.5 OF THE HAWAPI REVISED STATUTES TO DEVELOP RECOMMENDATIONS FOR REVISIONS TO CHAPTER 11 OF THE HAWAI'l COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), ENTITLED "HOUSING" From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated July 18, 2024. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kimball moved to close file on Comm. 948. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Folks, if you don't mind, it's my communication but I also just want to for efficiency sake, move us through the conversation. I am proposing to establish an ad hoc committee. This is one of the tools that we have available to us as a legislative body. So, it can be no more than four members of this body to do a comprehensive review and a rewrite of Chapter 11, which is related to affordable housing. There are a couple — MS. EVANS: Chair? CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes. Point of Order: MS. EVANS: Question on point of order. I know it's a communication, is it okay for you to conduct it or do you need to turn the chairmanship over to your vice chair? MS. KIMBALL: It's okay, Council Member Evans. That is only required for resolutions and bills. MS. EVANS: Thanks for the clarity. Thank you. I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: No problem. You're fine. There were a couple of legislative items or reports that this Council has seen. We've adopted a resolution requiring or suggesting that the Office of Housing and Community Development address our housing crisis with urgency. Last year we received a report from the Auditor's Office that identified ways in which the office can improve its operations in relation to excess credits. And last week this body received a copy of a presentation from Keyser Marston regarding an analysis and recommendations to improve Chapter 11. I've cleared it with the Clerk that we can as a body review and develop and write Code essentially. And so, that is something that I'm proposing to do is assemble three individuals and myself to meet between August through the end of November in partnership with the Office of Housing and Community Development to start to dissect the Keyser Marston report and come up with suggested changes to Chapter 11. I'd like to hear from folks who might be interested in serving before I make a determination on who will be serving on the Committee. Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Yes. I am interested. First of all, thank you so much for putting this forward. I think there's pieces of legislation in chapters that we tinker with and often times they are band -aid solutions and reactive solutions to what we have before us. I think a comprehensive overhaul and or look and tailoring of Chapter 11 is overdue. I'm just going to speak to why I would love to be considered. I think there's a lot of work that can be done not only within Chapter 11 but understanding how Page 2 aNURWOMFI., August 6, 2024 housing actually works from a construction perspective. Having done a lot of work with our Construction Codes and the complete overhaul of that I think makes me a great champion for understanding the dynamic approach you have to have to housing. I think I'm finally —I've always been a champion for our Native Hawaiian population, and I recognize that affordable housing and how that's delivered within our homestead communities are a little unique and different but can still be tailored into what we do here locally in Chapter 11. Asking for your humble consideration. I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you first of all, for putting this forward. As Council Member Lee Loy said, I think this sort of evaluation is long overdue, but we have a lot of data now to support some of the understandings about what needs to be changed as far as what's working and what's not, as well as, you know, a lot of state resources with respect to housing and the housing fact books that have been produced by you here. I would like to just put a plug in for Vice Chair Inaba, who of course is not here today, but he and I had worked pretty extensively on some revisions of Chapter 11, did a lot of the background homework from other jurisdictions, and I will say, in most cases addressed the issues that were brought forth in the report. So, given that, I'm busy, and that he has that sort of that attention to detail that we all know and love. I would like to suggest that he would be an ideal candidate to participate in the ad hoc. Thank you. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. And thank you for putting this forward. I also would second the notion that Vice Chair Inaba would be a really good addition to this working group. I'm interested in joining for sure. Housing has become, you know, something that is very important and something I've been learning a lot about fast. I was just recently appointed —had a NACo (National Association of Counties) presidential appointment as a Vice Chair for the Housing Sub Committee for NACo, and so, interested in kind of waiting in with the national folks to see what's being done nationally and bringing back ideas that way too. So, yeah. I am interested in participating as well. Thanks. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you very much. Turning it over to Kona. Council Members Evans or Villegas? MS. EVANS: Chair? CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Evans, you have the floor. Page 3 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 MS. EVANS: Thank you. I'm interested in joining the group with a different, maybe a little bit of a different perspective. I believe that we have to create trust, and this was very timely, this report, because of the issue that we had on affordable tax credits. There was a lot of people very uncomfortable with the affordable tax credit program. And I really liked that the report came out and really part of it was addressing that. And it was interesting because I was thinking there was going to be several laws that could be created from the report as I read it, and when I saw that you had proposed this group, I went, "Whoa, this is a different way of flushing it out and having this bigger conversation." Again, I think there probably could have been a couple bills already introduced by legislators because I thought there was some really good, summary takeaways from that report. I think this process of us getting together and talking about it will be beneficial, you know, because there was a lot. Again, there was an awful lot that was really in that report and, you know, it's time to really drill down on this Chapter 11. Again, affordable housing in my district that's going off with construction and it tends to be, I hate to say, they're building homes that are worth more than $750,000, we're in the millions and multiple millions in my district and the people in my district are really, really wanting affordable housing. So, I think we need to tackle this, and we need to get more affordable housing in the pipeline, at least in North and South Kohala. So, I would ask for your consideration, and it would be an honor to work with my colleagues. Thank you. I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Villegas, any comments? MS. VILLEGAS: No thank you. Not at this time. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Back here in Hilo. Council Member Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. I also want to thank you for this effort to look at Chapter 11 with an ad hoc committee. I am very interested in this topic; however, I also can also see that some of my other colleagues probably have more background on this. So, I would put myself in sort of Team B, so to speak. I'll be there if you need me. But I just wanted, at this time, to sort of raise up some of the things that are some of the issues specific to my district, which would make me interested in being on this committee. And reading the Keyser Marston report and seeing that there are really negative incentives for the development of affordable housing at this time. And it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Chapter 11, it's like an economic and regulatory disincentive to some degree. And that fact leads folks having to go and live in substandard subdivisions and conditions that are just really not acceptable, although, they're just trying to find a roof over their heads. So, that is really kind of my interest in this. And so, maybe Page 4 August 6, 2024 just want to shout out to that in this consideration of this Chapter 1.1 rewrite. Thanks. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I think everyone spoke in on this issue. And I also want to invite or acknowledge that Administrator Kunz from Office of Housing and Community Development is here. We have been coordinating on this idea of establishing an ad hoc, and I'm of the mind that the more minds the merrier. And you have a lot of folks that are very interested, passionate, and actually have done a lot of research around what could be, you know, something for our County to explore to incentivize affordable housing development here on Hawaii Island. Administrator, did you want to just provide any comments about this committee and your office's collaboration with us on it? (Note: At this time, Housing Administrator Susan Kunz came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. KUNZ: Good morning. Susan Kunz. Office of Housing, Housing Administrator. I'm very thankful for this process and us engaging in this conversation to put together this group. You know, we've worked really hard with the consultant and a lot of discussions going on. And I think it's also equally as important to get comments and input from our community through all of you and your knowledge. So, I'm excited about working with the group and I'm glad to see so many are interested in engaging. So, let's see how this process works out and I'm here to support whatever Office of Housing needs to do to make this move forward. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for being such a willing partner in this endeavor. I don't know if anybody's actually established this kind of ad hoc before. But I think it's so important to do. We cannot just make amendments to Chapter 11 and create a Frankenstein Code. I think we need as many, you know, hands and seats at the table to do a very holistic review. A lot of data is out there, and we also have to reflect on the experiences we've had where we thought we were incentivizing housing, but we haven't seen any sort of tangible results to that. MS. KUNZ: Yes. I agree. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: And so, I feel very strongly about setting this ad hoc up. Just so folks have a sense of meeting cadence. We are going to be meeting weekly starting next week through the end of October. I'd like to make sure that there's island -wide representation by this body so in addition to meeting in person, we will also have Zoom capabilities so that folks can fully participate. But this is going to require a significant investment of time and brainpower, but I think at the end of this, we will be able to offer something up for the next Council to deliberate on when they are seated. That being said, we also will be having members from Page 5 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 Corporation Counsel and the Planning Department be part of this very exciting endeavor. Okay. So, in terms of the ad hoc committee, I will be leading the ad hoc, chairing this particular committee. Council Member Inaba had also reached out to express interest and certainly want to ensure that he is part of this, so he is going to be on the Committee. I also want to invite Council Member Lee Loy to join us given here extensive background in development arena, doing large Code updates, but also the connection you have within your leadership roles within NACo, you've done a lot within the housing and infrastructure space and have access to technical experts on the national level that I think would be really relevant here. And I also want to invite Council Member Jenn Kagiwada, who has also newly appointed Vice Chair on one of the NACo sub committees and who has been a very passionate member of our Council advocating for more affordable attainable housing options for our community. So, that rounds up the committee. Council Members Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Inaba, and Kagiwada, will be on the Chapter 11 ad hoc committee. I need a motion to postpone this communication to the call of the Chair. Vote on Motion Ms. Lee Loy moved to postpone Comm. 948 to the call of to Postpone: the Chair. Seconded by Ms. Galimba and carried by the (Approved) following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Inaba and Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 2. Excused: None. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Mr. Clerk, we are now moving on to bill for ordinances. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Page 6 PCPLUD-18 STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON BILL 123: (DRAFT 3) August 6, 2024 The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Chuck Flaherty: Bill 123, Draft 3 (Comm. 677.23), comment. Bill 123: AMENDS CHAPTER 19, ARTICLE 1 AND ARTICLE 13, CHAPTER 23, (Draft 3) ARTICLE 9, AND CHAPTER 25, ARTICLE 1, ARTICLE 2, ARTICLE 5, AND ARTICLE 6, OF THE HAWAPI COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO OHANA DWELLING UNITS Removes each instance of the term "ohana dwelling" from the County Code and inserts the term "accessory dwelling unit", and adds provisions for the establishment of an accessory dwelling unit. Reference: Comm. 677.23 Imr. by: Ms. Kimball and Ms. Kierkiewicz Referred to Planning Commissions: January 30, 2024 Postponed: July 8 and July 23, 2024 (Note: There is a motion by Ms. Kimball, seconded by Ms. Galimba, to recommend passage of Bill 123 on first reading.) (Note: The following Communications transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 123, Draft 3, were circulated: 1. Comm. 677.24, from Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated August 5, 2024; 2. Comm. 677.25, from Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated August 6, 2024; 3. Comm. 677.26, from Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated August 6, 2024) CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Kimball, you have some amendments that you would like to offer up? MS. KIMBALL: Yes. Thank you. So, I'd like to just dive first into the amendments and then I actually have some response to Mr. Flaherty's concerns as well as a couple of things that are not being presented to you as amendments today. So, I'd like to start with Communication 677.24. Motion to Amend: Ms. Kimball moved to amend Bill 123, Draft 3, with the contents of Comm. 677.24. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Before you move into that, I just want to make sure our friends in Kona have these communications in front of them. Page 7 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 MS. VILLEGAS: Yes, we do. Thank you for checking, we're good. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Perfect. Thank you. And we also have Planning Director Zendo Kern here to weigh in with department mana`o on the proposed amendments. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Yes. Thank you. So, at the request of this body, Director Kern and I were able to meet with Kauai and City and County of Honolulu Planning Departments to talk about any restrictions that they have with respect to accessory dwelling units (ADU). I will start by saying that in Kauai County they have ADU's, ARU's (Additional Rental Unit), and guest houses, and they are all pretty much the same. They do not have a size restriction. Although, they have in general smaller lot sizes than we do and that by because of setbacks and whatnot becomes a smaller dwelling. They also are limited to one per residential lot and it's one of the three. So, if you have a guest house, for example, you can't have an ADU. City and County of Honolulu, they have `ohana's and ADU's. `Ohana's are restricted for family, blood relatives. They strongly advised us against doing that. It is practically unenforceable and very difficult, and there's always a lot of complaints and, "Well, that's my aunty," and whatever. So, strongly recommend that we not do that. They have a provision that if the lot is under 5,000 square feet, the limit is 400 square feet for the dwelling and if it's over 5,000 square feet, it is 800 square feet. Their sense was that this was too small. Again, smaller lot sizes in general than we have here in Hawaii County. But the other thing that actually spoke to me was they said but keeping it small keeps it in affordability in terms of the overall price per square foot. So, I did meet yesterday with Director Pause and the Building Division Chief and Deputy and we landed on 1,250 square feet, which seems remarkably precise. But it is actually based on looking at the major kit home suppliers, so, Argus, Honsador, and HPM (HPM Building Supply). This size should accommodate most of those kit homes especially if you exclude, which we are here, the lanai, the garage or the carport. And so, the thought was, you know, make it big enough; three bedrooms, two bath. A family could fit in this unit. But to still put a size restriction on it so that we are keeping these in the affordability range. I'm happy to have Director add into any of our conversation, if I missed anything. But he's giving me the thumbs up. So, that is the proposal here that the unit size would be limited to 1,250 square feet. Thank you. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member. Any questions or comments on the proposed amendment? Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Generally in support. This is just an overall, I'm just checking for understanding here, overall size limit. So, it still could be say, a Page 8 lye 041 _ NMI. August 6, 2024 one bedroom and be kind of fancier, like bigger living room and all that because you would still have the same size limitation, whether it's a one, two, or three bedroom, correct? CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: That's correct. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. I just wanted to double check with that. I mean, I guess I'm supportive. I do like the idea of making sure that we try to keep these affordable if possible. Thank you. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Checking over in Kona. MS. EVANS: Chair, I have some questions, and we have Director Pause with us. I'd like to invite him up. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Evans, you have the floor. MS. EVANS: Thank you. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Director Pause, welcome. (Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. PAUSE: Good morning. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Good morning. MS. EVANS: So, I noticed that we're, and this is about what size we want to allow and I'm curious, was there ever any size restrictions on guest houses? Because I'm noticing that we want to get rid of guest houses. So, now we're moving from guest houses into ADU's. And so, these guest houses could end up being nonconforming because they don't fit into this size. So, how is that going to work with us as we move, getting rid of guest houses and getting rid of `ohana's and there must have been some type of size limit on them, and now we're moving into this. Can you give us a sense of transition? CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Evans, I just want to take you back to the amendment that we're on, which is related to accessory dwelling units. There is no discussion on the floor or any proposal to get rid of guest houses. Just want to be really clear. MS. EVANS: Right. But this is really critical for me to see if I want to agree to this 1,250 square feet. I need to know about these guest houses, what sizing, Page 9 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 because I'm not sure. I think this is too big right now. That's why I'm asking this question. Thank you. MR. PAUSE: Steve Pause, Director of Public Works. I'm not sure that I could comment on sizes for guest houses. Director Kern may be more knowledgeable on that. I will tell you though, in our discussions about the size, the two things that Council Member Kimball brought up; one was affordable. So, we wanted to have it —and building prices right now, I think on a good day is $400 a foot. On a bad day, it's even higher than that. But making it affordable and also as Council Member Kimball mentioned, the package homes, the preapproved plans that we now have, I think we an excess of 15, maybe 20. But this seemed to be a sweet spot that fit within that 500 to 1,250 or so square feet that we see in preapproved plans. So, that was sort of the logic for it. And one other thing we talked about was, just to be clear, to call it major living area, so it's exclusive of carports; it's exclusive of garages, and lanai's. But I don't have a recollection of what limits for sizes of guest houses may be in the Code presently. And again, I would defer to Director Kern. He may have that knowledge. MS. EVANS: Is Director Kern with us? (Note: At this time, Planning Director Zendo Kern came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KERN: Aloha, Chair. Good morning, Members. Zendo Kern, Planning Director. Thanks for the question related to guest house. The guest house square foot limit is 512 square feet. The distinction of the guest house is you actually don't get a kitchen. And so, you're able to do a guest house of 512 square feet. You can have basically a refrigerator and like a sink in there, but no cooking apparatus. So, it's kind of a glorified detached bedroom, if you will. And over the course of the last few years and before that, there's been kind of the conversation around detached bedrooms and guest house, and what we tried to do is basically say if the house is further than 50 feet away, we're looking at that as a guest house. If it's closer with some type of connectivity to the main house, it could be deemed as a detached bedroom. So, in our view of the `ohana or ADU's and the guest house, they're very different things. MS. EVANS: Okay. So, the square footage given that Oahu, I believe Chair Kimball mentioned, will the setback requirements on the specific lot end up determining what you're going to agree to for maximum size, so we don't have to get into any lots less than 4,000 square feet. You can't get over 800 square feet or, I mean, will that just automatically work its way out when they come in and make a proposal? Page 10 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 MR. KERN: Yeah. That's the way that we're looking at. The setbacks will be, you know, fixed based on the zoning district that they're in. And then the person that's looking to do an ADU will have to look if they want to do it attached or detached. If they're detached, there's a separation between buildings. So, once you're in that type of urban environment, there's going to be a limitation of really what you can fit in there. And once you calculate, this is between buildings and setbacks, you know, I think in many cases somebody would be hard pressed to fit many on there and that will dictate what they can fit as well as the infrastructure. MR. PAUSE: Right. Thanks, Director Kern. I was going to also mention the availability of wastewater discharge. So, is your lot big enough to put another septic system; does the current house connect to a cesspool; is there sewer availability? So, in addition to setbacks, the ability to dispose of wastewater is going to come into play here as well, in terms of size. MS. EVANS: Okay. So, we don't have to get really drilled down. This will take care of itself. MR. PAUSE: Exactly. MS. EVANS: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: No problem. Council Member Villegas, any questions or comments? MS. VILLEGAS: Director Pause just hit the nail on the head talking about the wastewater and what happens in that realm. Thank you, Council Member Kimball for, you know, doing this due diligence to come up with a number for how big it should be. I suppose I still, I mean, my house is this size because it was a 1974 kit home from HPM. It was HPM or Honsador. So, there's just an inkling in the back of my head that we're setting ourselves up for something. We're trying to solve this housing crisis, but we may be compounding another kind of crisis on some properties. Yeah, there's just something that doesn't quite sit right, unfortunately, for me. So, I just feel like there's something I'm missing. But I see the intentionality for doing good and providing more housing for our community, but I also see the potential for —I don't know. There's some here that just doesn't sit quite right, but I'll continue to digest that and see if I can put my finger on it. So, I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Anyone else here in Hilo regarding Comm. 677.24. Again, to reiterate, this would set a maximum square footage for living area for an ADU that's 1,250 square feet. You can build smaller. You might have to actually build smaller if there are resource constraints related to infrastructure availability. But the max size would be 1,250 square feet. And it Page 11 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 also notes here that number does not include a lanai, garage, or carport, and then the height limit is going to be prescribed based on the zoning district it's in. So, I think it's very clear. And I appreciate you reaching out to other counties to see what has and hasn't worked for them to inform how we proceed here in Hawaii County. Council Member Lee Loy, you have your light on? MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Thank you. In support. I think where we started the conversation was, I think, just too big. And I believe it was this, and maybe Director Pause, you can help me. I know you landed or help land into this 1,250 square feet. Part of my challenge to you was when we came up with this number, if there was an analysis about construction waste. Were we able to get that? MR. PAUSE: Unfortunately, Council Member Lee Loy, no. We were not able to get that. I think a lot of our mindset was sort of geared toward or steered towards these preapproved plans and these kit homes. And one could surmise that if you're buying a kit home, there should be a whole lot less waste than just doing a stick build. But to answer your question, I was not able to, or I did not follow up on your question about waste. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. No worries. Maybe I can lean into some of the partners that we have regarding that. Director Kern, here we are limiting the height size also, I'm just thinking about the variance process, and I know it says this here, but would that foreclose on an opportunity for someone to apply for a variance to make the height adjustments? MR. KERN: Thanks for the question. No. The way that we read it, a person would still have the ability to apply for a variance, which we rarely see high variances. MS. LEE LOY: Sure. You know, I'm in support. I think people are going to use this and they're going to walk it out in all kinds of ways. And I think we'll just cross those bridges when we get there. I think what makes sense, makes sense. But if we start with a building footprint size, we can start also looking at the cumulative impacts as it relates to wastewater, right, roads, other things. But unless we provide a backstop, and this is that backstop, we'll never be able to program all the other stuff that it impacts. So, I am in support of this because we need to start somewhere. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. One more question. What are the parking requirements for a building this size? Say, is it based on the number of bedrooms; is it similar to the primary home? Page 12 August 6, 2024 MR. KERN: Yes. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. MR. KERN: Unless there's a provision that we specifically carve that out, it would be the same as the primary home. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. So, it'll be for a three bedroom it would be? MR. KERN: Two stalls, I believe. I have to double check that. MS. KAGIWADA: Two stalls. Okay. Alright, I just wanted to double check with that because obviously that would be an influence on what people are able to build as well. Okay. Thank you. I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. MS. EVANS: Chair, here in Kona? CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Evans, go ahead. MS. EVANS: Thank you. I wanted to inquire. When we originally looked at the square footage, I believe it was 2,000 square feet. And my question —because I'm trying to find it. I'm going back through the original drafts trying to find it. Was it 2,000 square feet under roof or was it 2,000 square feet living area when we started out with this? CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Kimball, can you please respond? MS. KIMBALL: Council Member Evans, the initial draft of Bill 123 did not have any size limit at all. There was an amendment introduced at last committee hearing that set it at 2,000 under roof. After talking with Director Pause the language that is in there now is more appropriate to say living area and then that excludes these additional areas that are not used for housing. So this is according to the Building Department, the more appropriate language. MS. EVANS: I agree with the appropriate language. But it could still be 2,000 square feet under roof. And I just want everybody to point that out because there's a huge difference between under roof. I mean, I know my house has 1,200 square feet of lanai. And so, it's interesting because I think when you compare it to the minimum yard requirements, the minimum yard requirements may dictate what the size of the lanai and the carport and the garage are in addition to the living area. And I think we've got to look at it wholistically as to what we're doing here. Yeah. I'm just raising it because there's a huge difference now. We could still allow 2,000 square feet of building on the lot the way we're writing it because Page 1.3 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 what you're saying is 1,250 square feet living area, and then they can add a carport, they can add a garage, they can add a lanai. That's a lot. So, we're definitely doing that. The other thing is, when they originally started, it was only going to affect lots of 10,000 square feet or less. If we've removed that, then you know, there's so many moving parts to this. It's really nice if we could see them wholistic. And I know we're doing an amendment one by one, but one is really impacting the other. So, I see where you're headed. I just right now would really like to kind of understand the big picture. So, with that, there's my comments. Chair, thank you. I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Mr. Clerk, if we could please go through a roll call vote for this amendment. Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 123, Draft 3, with the contents of to Amend: Comm. 677.24 was carried by the following roll call vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Lee Loy, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 5. Noes: Committee Members Evans and Villegas — 2. Absent: Committee Members Inaba and Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 2. Excused: None. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Next communication. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. And before I introduce this next amendment. I do want to reflect on what Council Member Evans has said which is that these amendments are part of the larger whole of the bill and there are several constraints that would limit the size in addition to what was just passed. It has to do with the setbacks that are required by the Zoning Code; it has to do with the availability of space for an individual wastewater system, parking requirements. There were several things. We just wanted to put an upper limit in this situation that all of those other criteria are met. Similarly, this next amendment being proposed, Communication 677.25, has another limit. Again, it's the upper limit considering all other requirements are met. Motion to Amend: Ms. Kimball moved to amend Bill 123, Draft 3, as amended, with the contents of Comm. 677.25. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. So, this again is an upper limit. Again, you have to consider that there are a number of other constraints that would determine how many units could be built on a site, but this is the upper limit. Worked with Page 14 a ' August 6, 2024 Director Kern on this because we need to have the flexibility in zonings that allow for more than one primary dwelling. So, the way that this should be read is that the maximum number dwellings on a site would be four; the primary dwelling and up to three accessory dwelling units. In the event that the zoning allows for more than one primary dwelling, each of those primary dwellings could have its own accessory dwelling unit. Maybe I'll let you speak to this a little bit more, Director Kern, as you proposed the language to this. But again, Kauai had a limit of one. So, there would be two dwellings per site. They tend to have smaller building sites. We are, per state law, required to allow two in residential areas with the passage of (State Bill) SB30-26, I may have that number wrong, but I believe that's correct. Director Kern's going to correct me on that number. MR. KERN: (State Bill) 32-02. MS. KIMBALL: 32-02. Thank you. I'm sure that other one is also important. But the City and County of Honolulu did not express a limit in the number but, Director Kern, do you want to just —I think it might be useful to kind of just describe the scenario where the second half of this clause would relate when you have the ability to do more than one primary dwelling. And then just speak a little bit about the difference between Kauai, City and County of Honolulu, and even Maui, to us in terms of the typical sizes we have with respect to the Zoning Code. MR. KERN: Sure. Thank you for the question. So, in certain cases with the residential zoning, to the RS district, you can sometimes be allowed more than one primary dwelling on a parcel. Case and point, if you have RS-10 zoning and you have a 20,000 square foot lot, you're allowed a density of two without subdividing it. And those would be two primary dwellings. So, looking at it, we thought that if a person was going to utilize that, having the ability to tie an ADU to a primary would make sense. If they're just going to say one primary, then you're just counting your additional ADU's. So, looking at it, it seemed to not make sense to preclude that especially if they were kind of attached, the primary and the ADU. For example, if you had a place that you could get two in town, in that case I use RS-20, that would get you four, but it would be tied to that primary and then somebody may decide to subdivide it in the future, which then those would be tied together. If they don't design it right, the subdivision of that would be quite challenging or basically prohibited by the design. So, that was the concept to not limit those that already kind of have that approved density in that way. And then, lot size wise, we're talking with Kauai and Oahu. They're generally closer to like the 5,000 square foot to 7,000 square foot lot. Our minimum lot size right now in the urban area is 7,500 square feet and most of our lots are generally 10,000 square feet to 20,000 square feet; a lot of 15,000 square feet. So, they kind of agreed that our makeup was a little bit different, and our size would merit that. think another takeaway from all of them was a lot of their legislation and Page 15 August 6, 2024 restrictions they did were based on fear at the time. And they were like, we would actually like to see it more open. We would like to come back and revisit these. And anytime you're dealing with new legislation, it's challenging. You know, you folks are here trying to make these decisions and there's pros and cons to it. And that was kind of the takeaway was, I think they would lean into it a bit more and it was kind of nice to hear them from actually having had this in motion and practicing this from a zoning and land use perspective already. They were supportive of what we're looking at. I hope that answered your questions. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. Thank you, Director. And thank you for reminding me of that concept of our conversation with both Kaua'i and City and County of Honolulu. You know, the counties were required at one point in time to develop these 'ohana or ADU codes, and at the time density was —people were afraid of density. We know that if you don't support density, you end up with sprawl. And we want to keep people closer to services, to schools, to infrastructure. And so, it was really telling for us to hear that they are working on ways to actually get to where we're going because their code was developed at a time when it was very fear based. So, I think that was a really important part to highlight of our conversations with the other counties. So, look for my colleagues' support on this. Happy to answer any questions. CHR. KEERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Anyone here in Hilo with questions or comments? Council Member Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: I think this is related to the amendment but stop me if it isn't. I'm looking at this and it's limiting the number of ADU's on a site. But I'm kind of looking at it from the agricultural perspective and self-limiting for most urban residential zoning but potentially you could have a very big lot in the agricultural district. However, the main body of this Bill 123, says that in state agricultural district that you have to have agriculture, and it has to be an additional farm dwelling, which is the controlling element there. I'm just wondering, do we have ag zoning that is not state land use ag and how much of that do we have; and I guess what are the lot sizes generally? MR. KERN: Thank you for the question. Yeah, we do have areas where the underlined state land use is rural or urban and the overlined zoning is agricultural. And so, in that case state land use ag or ag doesn't rule and they would actually be allowed to do the count that we have that we're looking at here. Rural zoned land, we have about 803 acres on the entire island of state land use rural. The overlap of agricultural zoning onto state land use urban, I don't have those exact numbers. We don't see it that often. There are some places we've noticed in Waimea, right by Waimea Park, right behind the town center, those are I think zoned AG- 1, state land use urban. We generally find those right in the kind of, that either plantation kind of urban areas or the kind of the fringe areas; Waimea is a good example. Once you Page 16 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 exceed that, it's all state land use ag. I can see if I can find out some additional information on how often that happens. I would say not that often. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. Yeah. I think I'm generally supportive, but I would like to maybe see a little bit more of some of this on the margin potential cases. MR. KERN: Sure thing. And to completely answer your question, I'd say a lot of those end up being around one to three acres, from my recollection. And the agricultural zoning does not allow that same type of density that residential would. So, that RS-10 example that I gave, I'd say a three -acre ag parcel zoned AG-1, you're not going to get one unit per each of that density. You would only still be allowed the one primary. And then in this case if it wasn't state land use ag, you would be allowed the three. If it was state land use ag, you'd be looking at additional farm dwellings if you were doing agriculture. MS. GALIMBA: Okay. Okay. So, the 803 acres of state land use rural, where is that; do you know offhand? MR. KERN: It's splattered throughout the island. MS. GALIMBA: Okay. Thank you. MR. KERN: It's very little when you really look at it. Yeah. MS. GALIMBA: Thanks. MR. KERN: You're welcome. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Checking over in Kona, any questions or comments? MS. VILLEGAS: Yes please, Chair. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Villegas, you have the floor. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, when we talked about this when it came forward a few weeks ago, I remember Council Member Inaba mentioning something that really hit home to me is that I was feeling like a one to one was a more responsible way, more relevant, to ease us into these ADU units. And I still feel like a three to one is a really, really, a lot. And so, it's not quite landing perfectly for me. I would've liked to have seen this be a one to one. So, just kind of how I'm feeling personally on this. I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Evans. Page 17 August 6, 2024 MS. EVANS: Yeah. Chair, just to clarify with the Planning Director. So, let's say I'm in the FA, family agricultural. I have the ability to do two dwelling units. And so, based on what you just said I could end up doing two more accessory dwelling units. So, this property will end up with four houses on it? MR. KERN: Council Member, if I can clarify the question. So, the parcel we're using as an example is an FA, family agricultural zone parcel? MS. EVANS: Yes. MR. KERN: If it's going to be a family agricultural zoned parcel you'd be allowed, depending on the state land use, it would either be a primary dwelling or a first farm dwelling. MS. EVANS: Right. And so, if this is —because the way I'm reading it, I'm just trying to march it out here. If you end up with two primary dwelling units on this parcel, you could end up with two more accessory dwelling units, or would it be six more dwelling units? MR. KERN: So, Council Member Evans, can you explain how you're arriving at getting two primary dwellings on the family agricultural zoned property? MS. EVANS: Okay. Because the way this is written, it says an accessory dwelling unit is a maximum of three per building site, okay, except, and this where I'm getting exception, where a building site is permitted to have more than one primary dwelling. MR. KERN: Okay. Thanks for that clarification. The only zoning district that allows for that is a residential zoning district. The family ag or the agricultural zoning does not allow for that type of unit per density count. So, you could have a family ag zoned parcel, let's say that was three acres in size that was zoned FA-1, meaning your minimum lot size is one acre. That parcel would still only be allowed one primary dwelling or one first farm dwelling. MS. EVANS: So, if you have one primary dwelling then this would allow them to do three accessory dwelling units? MR. KERN: If the state land use was rural or urban, yes. If the state land use was state land use agriculture, which majority of our island is, no. MS. EVANS: Okay. And we're putting out a draft General Plan, so we may see rural urban changes that might be coming. I'm just trying to figure out kind of how this is going to play out. So, I'm glad that you said that. FA depends on if it's a rural or urban zoning designation, will determine how many ADU's? Page 18 August 6, 2024 MR. KERN: Yes. That's going to be one of the primary factors. And the General Plan won't automatically create those zoning districts. It will just allow for that future land use pattern that could occur, and if there is a state land use boundary amendment or a change of zone, that would come to the County Council for approval. MS. EVANS: Okay. Alright. Good. Thank you. I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Back here in Hilo, Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. I'm supportive of this amendment because I'm an advocate for two very important things I think when we're looking at housing, and that's providing housing for our residents and making sure that we support density over sprawl. So, those two things I think this amendment helps us go more that direction, so I'm very supportive. Thank you. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Anyone else? Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Thank you, Chair. Yes, in support. I think and maybe I'm just channeling Mr. Inaba at this point. I'm just throwing it out there, willing to pass it here but just food for thought. When I read this, I thought accessory dwelling units shall be restricted to a maximum of three per site, period. When a building site is permitted, so on so forth, a maximum of one, right, to keep it nice, tight, and clear. Sometimes periods help rather than comma's. But in support of this. Just leave it to the author if that's something we want to tailor up or clean up a little later. I'm going to support this amendment. Thank you, I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. I'd like to get this in today and I will work with LRB (Legislative Research Branch), and I will consult with the comma, period master himself, Mr. Inaba, to determine if we need a little tweaking on the grammar there. But just to be clear, there is no density limit right now in this bill. So, yeah, I'll just say it. There's no limit now. This proposes a limit. Anyway, call for the question. Chair, I think we're good unless you have any comments. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: You know, I will be supporting this. We've talked I think for so long about increasing density or infrastructure, services, jobs, amenities, are located, and I think this helps to solve for that. It think it's also kind of wild to imagine that we're just going to see a proliferation of folks building three more ADU's on their property because I'm just doing some napkin math here. Director Pause said earlier it's about $400 a square foot to build. If you build at the max of 1,250 square feet, that's half a million dollars. And to kind of max out, that would be a $1.5 million investment. And I don't know how many folks have that kind of Page 19 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 cash in the bank to build. I think this presents opportunities, right? It kind of unlocks some of the barriers that we have faced in trying to increase density where the infrastructure is. So, I think this is a good move. And I appreciate that we've consulted other counties to kind of arrive to this space; good to know what's kind of worked or not worked for them to inform what we do here because you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Alright, we have a motion on the floor. Mr. Clerk, if we could please do a roll call vote. Thank you. Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 123, Draft 3, as amended, with to Amend: the contents of Comm. 677.25 was carried by the following (Approved) roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Lee Loy, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 6. Noes: Committee Member Villegas — 1. Absent: Committee Members Inaba and Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 2. Excused: None. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Final amendment, Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Yes. Thank you. Motion to Amend: Ms. Kimball moved to amend Bill 123, Draft 3, as amended, with the contents of Comm. 677.26. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. This was not something that we have not previously discussed with respect to this bill, but it came up in our conversation with City and County of Honolulu —no, was it Kauai or City and County? I can't recall. One of the other counties. MR. KERN: It was Kauai MS. KIMBALL: It was Kauai. You're right. They have this provision that basically prohibits HOA's (Homeowners Association) and the development of CC&R's (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions) from limiting the ability to develop ADU's. Of course, this is going to be a moving forward thing. It's not a retroactive thing. They have kind of fought tooth and nail, their Planning Department, to get this language put in and they're really glad it's in there. I heard about it, and I thought, yeah, you know, this makes a ton of sense as one of the ways that we see ADU's being restricted. Page 20 99ORW1711WI., August 6, 2024 So, basically what this proposes that unless there's any other condition of approval tied to a property, going forward there won't be any association bylaws, agreements, deed restrictions, that will exclude the ability to —will limit or prohibit the constructions of ADU's. So, look forward to my colleagues discussion around this. But I think it's a really nice provision and I thank Kaua'i for bringing it to our attention. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member. Anyone here in Hilo, comments or questions? Turning it over to Kona. MS. EVANS: Chair? CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Evans, go ahead. MS. EVANS: I mean there's a lot of condominium law on the books. And just for clarity, this particular language is specific just to condominiums or is it beyond that? Because I'm seeing, or any other agreement that runs with the subject land, kind of, it's pretty doggone broad. So, can you explain kind of the application of this? CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL The answer to your first question is no, that would not be specifically exclusively limited to condominiums. It certainly would apply to CPR (Condominium Property Regime), regimes, bylaws, and other covenants CC&R's, or deed restrictions. One of the reasons I essentially copied the language from Kaua'i, and one of the reasons I wanted to mirror their language exactly is it's already been tested from the legal standpoint on their side. So, we have some assurances that this is allowable. MS. EVANS: Is Corporation Council in the Hilo Chamber? CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, Council Member Evans. Judge Strance is here, and she is approaching the table. MS. EVANS: Thank you. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. STRANCE: Good morning. Elizabeth Strance. Corporation Counsel. MS. EVANS: Thank you. I guess this is the legal question of —you buy something that has a deed restriction and then we come along and pass this and it says that the Page 21 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 deeds restriction will not —basically, this law will override the deed restriction. Does that set us up for lawsuit? MS. STRANCE: If it were drafted that way, it might. But it's not drafted that way, Council Member Evans. This is a law that would have prospective application, so it would not affect any properties that are currently governed by CC&R's that would have those restrictions. MS. EVANS: Okay. But deed restrictions can be put on and not necessarily be part of the condominium regime. People may just decide to put deed restrictions because they, you know, they care about the neighborhood or, you know, they have something personal they want to make sure that the next generation whatever doesn't do something to this property that's been in the family a long time, and you put a deed restriction on it and then all of a sudden this says you can't do that. So, would the title companies, you know, who will, you know, there's going to be people, now the title companies and everybody, the lawyers are going to be very privy to the fact from the day forward no one can put deed restrictions on the construction of accessory dwelling units. Am I correct? MS. STRANCE: You're correct that going forward, people will be presumed to know the law and that they cannot impose these types of restrictions going forward. MS. EVANS: Okay. Alright. Thank you. I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Mr. Clerk, roll call vote. Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 123, Draft 3, as amended, with to Amend: the contents of Comm. 677.26 was carried by the following (Approved) roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 6. Noes: Committee Member Evans — 1. Absent: Committee Members Inaba and Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 2. Excused: None. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I don't see anymore amendments in our folder, and we are at the end of our agenda, and back to the main motion of Bill 123, Draft 3, as amended today with three communications. What is your pleasure, Council Member Kimball? MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you. I wanted to just go over a couple of things that I didn't come back with amendments about and then respond to the testifier, and I Page 22 August 6, 2024 want to respond particularly to this testifier because in know that some of the other Council Members shared their concerns that were raised. Let me just start first by talking about `ohana versus accessory dwelling unit. We did explore whether or not it would be appropriate to say accessory dwelling unit (`ohana) or some other way including in here that those words are interchangeable. I was strongly advised that that is not consistent with how we develop code. Code is meant to be succinct, to be clear. And so, there isn't an amendment being put forth to reinstate that term. And as I said before, City and County of Honolulu strongly, strongly recommended against making `ohana's be for family only. The other thing that I will say about that is that the reason again that we chose to say accessory dwelling unit was because of the eligibility for various mortgage and lending programs to support development of these units and the fact that for mainland institutions, the word `ohana might not be a recognized term. So, that amendment is not forthcoming, unless somebody else wants to try it, but LRB's going to tell you no. And then, the next thing I wanted to speak to was this idea of the accessory dwelling unit and one of them being about to be used as a TAR (Transient Accommodation Rental). Mr. Flaherty mentioned that this is an amendment that should go back to the Planning Commission. I just want to make sure that this was a recommendation that the Planning Director made in their notes to the Planning Commission and both Planning Commissions supported this amendment already, to allow for one TAR. So, that has already been reviewed by the Planning Commissions, but what I will also say is we need to have the flexibility for people to redesignate ADU and primary dwelling because of the ability to do lending and all of that stuff. When we put that flexibility in, defacto, we created an opportunity for people to say, to rent an accessory dwelling unit by moving into it and redesignating their primary residence, right. So, what the language that was proposed with respect to the TAR's is in alignment with what would actually happen on the ground. What I think is actually more important is we've restricted that to one ADU, so we're just being much more clear. Would it be ideal to not have any ADU's be used as TAR's? Sure. But as we had talked about, sometimes having an ADU on your property as a TAR, sometimes having a TAR is the way you stay in your home. And so, we're keeping that opportunity open. I think that there are other ways, like what we're looking at with long-term rentals versus short-term rentals and tax policy and what not, homeowners exemption or not. But we kind of steer or we do the social engineering, we want to see happen. But having that ability to make one ADU a TAR was already going to happen because of some other mechanisms but, there are reasons for it, and I realize there's hesitation. One thing I might suggest for the folks that have hesitation because of what's going on in their particular area is we can certainly look at saying, except in these places Page 23 PCPLUD-18 August 6, 2024 where we already have accommodations in the vicinity, or something like that. I don't want to make any specific suggestions but that is something that could be considered if there are folks concerned about this in particular areas. The last thing I wanted to just talk about, and you've mentioned, you brought this up briefly, Council Member Kagiwada. One of the other pieces of conversation we had with City and County of Honolulu was respect to parking. And the parking for these ADU's is going to be another limiting factor in terms of what size you can build, where you can put it, all of those things. They have something that I really, really loved which reduced the parking requirements if you were close to a mass transit location. And so, I would like to move this forward today. But I do intend to potentially introduce another amendment that would allow for that with respect to the parking requirements because I think that is really a great way to promote transit centered development. So, with that, I yield, Chair, and happy to take any further questions from the body. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. On that last kind of suggested amendment, it aligns quite nicely with the General Plan. I heard a little article on HPR (Hawai`i Public Radio) this morning about wanting to move more of our communities to utilizing our mass transit system, so that helps to encourage that. Any questions or comments on the bill? Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Yeah, and just to add to that —sorry, a little leeway, but to add to that discussion about transit hubs. I hope we can also look at areas that are actually walkable to lots of amenities and things that people need. So, in our town areas more specifically, that's especially where it's very hard to provide extra parking. And so, if people need fewer cars because they can walk to things, I hope we can look at that as well. Overall, on the bill, I just want to say that I, you know, was not in favor of having a short-term vacation rental or vacation rental be part of any of this, but I do understand that the mechanics mean that, you know, we don't have a lot of control over that anyway. So, I do hope my colleagues will look forward to having these discussions about maybe not, you know, outright banning it, but looking at ways to encourage these to be used for housing for our residents. So, thank you and I yield. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Anyone else here? In Kona? Okay, seeing or hearing none, there is a motion on the floor to forward Bill 123, Draft 3, as amended. Mr. Clerk, roll call vote, please. Page 24 PCPLUD- 18 Vote on Bill 123 (Draft 2) (Approved) 1UV WON Approved: August 6, 2024 The motion to recommend passage of Bill 123, Draft 2, as amended, was carried by the following roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Inaba and Kdneali'i-Kleinfelder — 2. Excused: None. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: That brings us to the end of our agenda. There being no further business, Chair Kierkiewicz adjourned the meeting at 11:14 a.m. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for joining us. Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair Policy Committee on Planning, Land Use, and Development AK/tk (Date) Page 25