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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PCIA 2024/08/20 (2022-2024)Policy Committee on Infrastructure and Assets 15' Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii August 20, 2024 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Policy Committee on Infrastructure and Assets ORDER: was called to order at 10:01 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Acting Chair. ROLL CALL - Present: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Acting Chair Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Cindy Evans, Member Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Mr. Matt Kdneali'i-Kleinfelder, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 184: AMENDS CHAPTER 22, ARTICLE 2 AND ARTICLE 3, OF THE HAWAI'l COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO THE USE OF COUNTY STREETS; AND ESTABLISHES A SPECIAL ACTIVITY PERMIT FOR COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES Establishes a process to obtain a special permit and regulations to conduct temporary commercial activity on a County street, and increases fees from $25 to $50 for any permit issued for the lawful use of County streets. Reference: Comm. 944 Intr. by: Mr. Inaba and Ms. Kierkiewicz Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend passage of Bill 184 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Villegas. PCIA-1.5 August 20, 2024 Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Vice Chair relinquished the chair to Ms. Galimba. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. With that, I believe we are at the point to take discussion. Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you, Acting Chair Galimba. This Bill 184 is something that came actually organically. I believe last year sometime there was some enforcement activity that occurred around commercial activities in our streets and on our roads across the County, primarily in Hilo and in some locations here in Kona. So as a result, I created this bill in partnership with DPW (Department of Public Works) and Council Member Kierkiewicz, and essentially right now, the Code doesn't allow commercial activity to occur at all. There is no permitting process. So, what this bill does is create an avenue for a permitting process to exist. It also ensures that materials that are going to be sold and any individuals selling those activities don't impede or cause any kind of safety hazards along our roadsides. The application would be submitted to the Department of Public Works to include information of the people or organization selling, the details of the products, the locations they intend to sell at, plan for managing any waste that might be generated by their activity, and the normal insurance and those types of things that we would require for any type of partnership with the County as an agency. Currently as written in the bill, a permit could be good for up to one year. We have activity hours being permitted between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. The permit fee is $50, and if anyone is caught without a permit it is $1,000 per incident for no permit. There is also an additional change here regarding leaving sidewalks clear from three feet to four feet, and that was something that was recommended by the Department of Public Works. This bill also allows the Department of Public Works Director to revoke any permit should an applicant not be in compliance with either the Code or the provisions of the permit that they were granted. So, that's a general overview of this bill. We do want to probably have some discussion today. We know that there are some folks who sell, whether it be for a fundraiser to send a sport's team, or something like to a tournament off island or those types of activities. We want to make sure that we are able to support those types of activities too. So, we welcome everyone's mana`o and input today and would like to hand it over to my co -introducer, Council Member Kierkiewicz, before we also get to hear from the DPW Director and staff in the Hilo chambers. Mahalo, Chair, I yield. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I believe Vice Chair Inaba pretty much summed up our intentions and the purpose of this particular bill. Definitely want Page 2 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 to kako`o, making sure that we are carving out a special exception for sports teams that are trying to fundraise to go on different trips to compete on the state and national level. But currently, there is no process for folks to legally sell on the side of a County street and this would begin to establish that framework and ensure that these operations are going to be conducted in a safe manner. So, looking for everyone's feedback and support on this bill. Thank you. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Anyone in Hilo? MR. INABA: Chair, if we could hear from DPW, please. I believe they're in the Hilo chambers. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Sure. MS. KAGIWADA: We have Deputy Director from DPW here in Hilo chambers. (Note: At this time, Public Works Deputy Director Malia Kekai came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. KEKAI: Good morning, everyone, Malia Kekai, Deputy Director of Public Works. I'm just here to answer questions if you guys all need. I think we all understand the intention of the bill and we're hoping just to be able to carry it out effectively. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Actually, I was wanting to write a bill on this and so I was doing a bunch of research, but I didn't get time to draft anything. But in my research, what I noticed is there is definitely a difference between the urban city streets versus your county roads, and the way they draft other legislation in other jurisdictions really points out that difference. So, you can give people authority to park in the two hour —like, for example, at the County building in Hilo, you give a vendor a two-hour permit or four hours or six hours or whatever to park in a two-hour zone on a county street for this particular purpose, versus when you're on a county road, like a highway, like these county roads that are like highways in our community. Then you have for me, my purpose that actually even looking at drafting something was because of all the food trucks that I have up in North and South Kohala that they wanted to pull off on the side of the road and sell food. It was very popular and then Public Works came out and basically told them they couldn't do it. So, now we don't have those food vendors anymore on these roads. So, what has happened is they're trying to deal with the people who have parking lots, people who have shopping centers or whatever, and they go in. Like if you go to Kona now at HPM (Hawai`i Planning Mill) or Target parking lots, you'll see food trucks there. So, there has been a way to maybe partially resolve Page 3 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 it, but when you get into the real rural communities like I have, we need to have them be able to pull over on the side of the road. But of course, you have to have adequate line of sight, you have to have adequate parking. You don't want to create a dangerous situation. So, there's a lot of pieces to this. And I do think that this does lend itself to either you're in the urban street environment or you're in the rural county road, pull off on the shoulder type of environment. So, I do think it would be nice to have Public Works maybe weigh in on how they see the difference and how they would like to maybe enforce or what they would like to see. So, the question to Public Works is do you see there is a difference between the streets versus the roads in rural areas? MS. KEKAI: Absolutely, there's a difference. I think when we first kind of thought about this permitting process, we wanted to go through actually and name out the places that would be just basically out of the question, right? Like places where already that you can't park or stop or stand because it would limit line of sight and be unsafe. That would be the very first thing for us. We don't want anyone basically to be putting themselves in danger or putting anybody else in danger. So, that's the first one, and obviously, when you have limited sight of the road basically, then yeah, that's probably what we would look at. We would make sure that there's enough space, like you said, to be pulled off comfortably and also to have enough space that other cars would be able to do it and it wouldn't cause any kind of traffic problems. Those will all be things that we need to take into consideration when we review these permits and when people come to us and ask us. I think eventually, as we go through this, I would like to create a map for people to be able to just pull up on our website and be able to say like these are the places that won't be allowed because they're not safe. Then that way people would just know like they can come in and they won't request those areas. So, we'll go through that, it'll definitely be a trial -and -error kind of thing as we start it up, but I'm confident my engineers will be able to review them and be able to provide a safe location for people to do their vending. MS. EVANS: The bill talks about county street. Does county street all - encompassing that terminology? MS. KEKAI: Yeah, I mean it's all county right of ways. MS. EVANS: Okay. MS. KEKAI: So, just basically, state streets or highways would not be included in this. Page 4 PCIA-1.5 August 20, 2024 MS. EVANS: Okay, and then I wanted to ask about the fee because there was a recommendation to raise it from $25 to $50. Right now, can someone apply for this online, or do you anticipate it online or will people have to come to one of the offices to get the permit? MS. KEKAI: I think initially, it will most likely be an in -person process. I mean we may be able to create a form online and then have them email it to us and us do the first review. But yeah, that all still needs to be worked out. MS. EVANS: Okay. I have other questions, but I'll yield for now. Thank you. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Anyone in Hilo? MS. KAGIWADA: Yes, Chair. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. So, I just have a couple questions. One, is I guess there was a reason that we decided to stop having people do this. Before, it was kind of an organic thing, and it was happening, we didn't have anything on the books saying it was okay. So, I guess I want to hear from your department why that reason was that we originally did shut people down, and does this legislation, the way it's written, address all the issues that you had concerns about when we took that initial action? MS. KEKAI: I don't really know the history of why we haven't allowed vending in the right of way, honestly. I would just say that kind of I think the —in our minds at DPW, I think one of the catalysts for this is Ho`olaulea. It was kind of something that we wanted to allow, but the way the law was written, it doesn't really give us much wiggle room and so, that's just one of the things. There are other things that happen when roads are closed and they're technically vending in the right of way, right? So, we were kind of just allowing things without having a good mechanism for it. So, this will allow us to have that mechanism to like allow people to do these things. I think the only concern I have is we do have a part in here that says it's only between —it won't have it between 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. That would exclude a lot of night activities, but that's up to your decision on whether that's what you guys want to do and then we will enforce it. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thanks. Then to the makers, just wondering, have you had any community gatherings or open forums on this? Because as you pointed out, Hilo is one of the places that a lot of this stuff takes place. I haven't had time to reach out to the community to really get some feedback. So, I'm just Page 5 PCIA-1.5 August 20, 2024 wondering, did you have time to do that, or have you had any forums with the public on this yet? MR. INABA: We haven't had any forums as of yet, but like I said, this bill came out of numerous calls coming into the office from people who conduct this type of activity. So, that's where the bill was kind of born out of, the enforcement that started happening in the county streets. MS. KAGIWADA: Would you be willing to do a forum or do something so we can try to get more public feedback on this? MR. INABA: We could definitely do some outreach via social media. I think this should be a very straightforward bill. It is economic development for our community, making sure that we're supporting our local families and giving them opportunities besides a storefront and having that huge investment to be able to support their families. So, yes, we'd be willing to do more outreach regarding this bill. MS. KAGIWADA: Ok, great. Thank you, I appreciate that. Then back to the department, just is it possible that —I know that the Director was involved in the original kind of action that we took on this. Is it possible to just get a little background from him by the next time we hear this about why that was? Because understanding why we even made those changes I think is kind of important because we did have this kind of informally was allowed before, or at least it wasn't enforced where people couldn't do it before. So, there must have been some reason that all of a sudden, we did enforce it and I'd really love to hear what that reason was to understand if we are addressing those concerns with the way that this legislation's written. MS. KEKAI: Yeah, I'm happy to talk with Steve and get you more information, but something just popped into my mind. I think actually, one of the things that happened was the state began to enforce. I got a lot of calls about that too, and I was like we're not doing that to people, but state took a really hard line. So, I don't know, honestly, if it was really us that took the harder line or not, but I'll go check and just double check that if we did do that, what was the catalyst for us stepping in. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, that would be great. Then just making sure that the public understands if we do this, that we are —it sounds like, and please correct me if I am wrong, we are not necessarily we can't do anything to allow them to operate on state roadways and highways. This is really only for county ones. So, ones where they may have been operating before still will not be allowed because they are not county roadways. Page 6 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 MS. KEKAI: That's correct. Yeah, they would have to —the state would have to implement a similar permitting process for them. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, and if they did try to do that, would they be held to the $ 1,000 fine? MS. KEKAI: No, I mean I think that only applies to our streets. We're not going to enforce on state highways. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. Just trying to understand all the nitty gritty details. I yield. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I wanted to clarify. I'm sure we all remember in October of last year this very abrupt sort of announcement from the state where they said that police officers are going to be cracking down on vendors who sell on county roadways, state highways because right now, it is an illegal activity. So, this bill is in response to that. And being that we can only govern activities in county rights of way, we're trying to create a process for folks be able to do that safely without creating a dangerous situation and preventing potentially hazard ones. So, I'm happy to do some outreach with community members, but this is in direct response to many of those calls where our local folks were feeling quite trapped over the fact that they had very little notice that they had to move their operations. So, thank you, Chair, for the ability to clarify. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thanks, Council Member. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. First of all, to the makers, thank you for putting this forward. I love a good food truck. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to name a couple of my favorites, Duck Fat and Crusty Buns. There are some really good one out there. I know this is not exclusively for that, but I do want to thank you for that because I do think it is a really good way for folks to get out into the market with their products. A couple of questions or comments, I guess. I see you've put the signage section in there. I just want to suggest that if the intention is to allow these vendors some signage, but they have to be in this limit where they're not impeding the sidelines and whatnot, that it expressly be stated in one of these later sections, special activity permits, that signage is permitted. And the reason I say that is that this Section 22-2.6 says "otherwise permitted" in the section where you create the special activity permit, you allow them to say what signage they're going to have Page 7 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 but it's not expressly permitted. So, there's just a little inconsistency there in the language. The other thing that I would say with respect to that is impedes or inconveniences, I think really when we talk about signage, we're talking about line of sight and visibility, and I kind of like to call that out specifically. I also —I'm not sure that the 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. is the right timeframe. I know a lot of the vendors are going to want to be out for dinner and after work, pick up ahi or whatever. So, I would think that maybe we need to switch those times a little bit. I did have a kind of a general question, if you worked with the Police at all on this? My one concern is about safety, about pulling off the road, about having enough leeway. Let's not put these right by a blind turn, something like that. Do you think there needs to be some site line visibility safety language in here? And I would recommend that they're the right people to talk to about that. Then finally, I'll just say that I would really like for us to get this super right, super top solid and tight so that we can then go to the state and say we'd like to allow this in certain locations on state roadways too. Because I know my district, in particular, that's the main place where people would have the visibility to actually have a good set up, and I'd love to have a little food truck area by the scenic point. Whoever is listening out there at the state, let's work that out. That would be my goal is we get it really tight here at the county level and then we can go to them and ask for the same privilege on state roadways. So, thanks for putting this forward, look forward to seeing how it evolves. Thank you. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, thank you. At the risk of repeating a couple of things, yes, at least in District 7, it was very much the removal of the vendors that were on the side of the road next to the Mormon church was very much at the asking of the state. Challenges with the vendors there was safety, people going on and off the highways there. I will also humbly admit coming through election season that is the sign -waving spot. So, there are a lot of opportunities for tightening up the use of public spaces for these kinds of activities. We also have worked diligently here on the Council to open up spaces within our county parks for farmer's markets, and I have heard challenges from vendors who participate in farmer's markets. There are also a number of food truck events that happen in the shopping center parking lots, specifically designated and cordoned off for the health and safety of everyone. And they have permitting processes and ways that they follow-up on Department of Health certificates and everything being aligned there. Page 8 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 So, looking at the long part of this, I do have some concerns about us accidentally opening pandora's box to people, assuming they can pull over on the side of any county road and start vending again, and not knowing the difference between the state and the county roads. So, the concept of there being a very specific map that outlines the places on county roads even, that are appropriate because of safety, because of access, I think that is a good direction to go. I will also just give a shout out to the people out there, that really don't want government telling them what they can do and what they can sell and where and how. I think of lemonade stands and just the history in a very rural community of their being opportunity for people to utilize public spaces for simple, small, economic return on products and resources. So, I just want to acknowledge and thank the makers of this for picking this up because there is a dance here. There is also the dance with the young people on the side of the roads with fishing nets asking for money to go to different events. I'd like to think that there are other ways for activities and groups to earn money, than being on the side of the road with a fishing net because it really isn't that safe. In Kona especially, we have struggles with panhandling already, and so creating a piece of legislation that might create some kind of slippery slope. Those are just the things I get to navigate because Kona is one of the most urban districts on the island that really has a lot of these issues. So, in the overall, I really appreciate your taking heed and pointing out the nuances of some of the corrections that need to happen. Thank you, DPW, for taking a look at this and for your visioning for there being a specific map. I do think there needs to be these fees because there is a part of me that thinks of the folks that are paying to participate and abiding by the other realms of protocol in order to participate in the different farmer's markets and open markets and events that happen all over. So, we just kind of have to tread lightly so we're not creating a whole other avenue when we do have avenues and availability and empty spots for vendors to participate in those designated areas. So, just doing the dance here and kind of expressing a devil's advocate on some of these things. So, thank you for taking this up, and I will continue to support it navigating through with the trust that we're going to end up where we need to get to. But do want to just throw out this caution there. Yeah, thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Corporation Counsel? Please. On her way up, I wanted to mention that the reason I was looking at writing a bill is because there were people telling me that they wanted the playing field leveled out, that the food trucks that have to go to the farmer's markets or go in the shopping centers and spaces, they're paying their dues and paying their rent. They believe it's really good and they feel that the people that were pulling off on the side of the street were given special treatment and they just felt like everybody should play Page 9 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 by the same rules. So, that's why they were asking me, "Can you please do something to make sure everybody's playing by the same rules?" So, that's when I started researching it. I can tell you more about that later, Member Inaba. No, I can't, I've got to tell you publicly because of the Sunshine law. I can do that. So, thank you. My question, there's a couple of terminologies in here and I wanted to really address the agreement, indemnifying, defending, and holding harmless the County of Hawaii arising out of any permitted commercial activity. That is a really high standard to ask a very small almost cottage industry person to sign off on, and I was kind of curious. We have a lot of small businesses, cottage industries, there are a lot of things we do. We rent out space in our parks, buildings, we have the world sprint people on the bay front. Do we actually have all of those organizations signing a hold harmless agreement with the County? (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. STRANGE: Good morning, Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. It's a standard term in most, if not all, contracts for the county to require that the county be an additional insured for the activities done. Your Waiwai grants, for example, the agreements all contain insurance requirements. I believe the $1 million is the standard used there, so, it's a pretty standard amount. MS. EVANS: I've seen the standard language, I'm just thinking that when people rent pavilions at our parks, when people have sporting activities, festivals, things on our land, do we make them indemnify? I mean indemnify is a really high, legal standard, right? I know it can become normal language in contracts, but is that what we do? Is that what we do when people use our county property? Is that the standard across the board? MS. STRANCE: Well, I'm not sure what the requirement is for parks, land, where it's already determined it's a pretty safe place. This bill seeks to authorize commercial activity on our roads. So, I would think that one of the concerns, and I can talk further about where this language came from, but I know that there have been discussions about these activities and the amount of parking on the shoulder of county roads. And county roads and shoulders of roads were not constructed with the intent of people parking and carrying on business there. So, I would expect that there would be some insurance provision because these are not carved out pieces of property away from traffic like our parks are where there are safety standards. But if the question is, do we require insurance when people rent a park facility, I'll have to find out. MS. EVANS: I'm pretty sure they do because I've had people call me and say how hard it is. It's really hard right now to get the $1 million insurance. People call all around the state trying to figure out how to solve that problem because I Page 10 PCIA-1.5 August 20, 2024 had someone rent a pavilion for a birthday party and said it was so hard to find the insurance. It's hard to get people to give them a one time, $1 million for the one day. But I think we do that because they were asking me could I help them, and we were calling all around figuring out what insurance companies might do it for a one -day event to do this. That might be something for us to consider is making sure —it is something we're asking but it's not easy to do that. It can be very expensive for one day. We want families to be able to rent our park facilities for a baby luau or a family event. So, it's just something that we should consider and maybe work with the Parks Department. I just saw that, and it just stood out that yes, we want the liability insurance but at the same time, we want them to hold harmless the county and that's asking a lot. Two things, I'm just curious, and I wanted to comment. I had another question. So, up under sidewalk use permits, I noticed this language of permits to place things in or on the county streets. In or on. I was curious, should we be saying we're going to allow this special activity in or on a county street? Is it a terminology that should be repeated? MS. STRANCE: We can look into that language a little bit more, and I'm not sure whether or not the shoulder is considered to be in or on. So, we can look at that, and I guess the question in terms of the legislation is whether the intent —the policy intention of this bill is to allow access to the shoulders to commercial activities taking place off the pavement, or whether the intention is to allow commercial activities on the pavement itself. I recall some discussion about this. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Council Member Inaba has something to add to that. MS. STRANCE: So, I would have to look at the language and make sure if — MS. EVANS: And that's why when 1 was researching the language some of them were on the street, like allowing the food truck to actually pull —so they pull onto like a loading zone area on a street. So, they're in the street, but they're actually people buying everything from the sidewalk, so they come on the sidewalk side, right? They walk up from the sidewalk. So, the public is not on the street, they're on the sidewalk. So, when you're in an urban area, you have them actually in the street. So, that is language I think we need to take a look at because there is a difference — ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Council Member Evans, Council Member Inaba has something to add here. Page 11 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 MR. INABA: Yeah, I should have tried to clarify this earlier. So, the term "street" as used in this chapter means the "entire width between property lines of any County owned and maintained street, avenue, road, alley, highway. . ." so it includes the sidewalks. A road on the other hand, a "roadway" as defined in the chapter, "means that portion of a County street, excluding the shoulders, curbs, gutters, sidewalks. . .." So, I think as we move forward, this bill is referencing streets so it's to include the area, the boundary between the right-of-way that includes the sidewalks, the shoulders. So, let's try and make sure we use the term street because street is all encompassing and that's what this bill is trying to get at. It's not specific to the driving area where vehicles are. Thank you. MS. EVANS: So, I can give this story a little bit —so, Puak6, at the comer there is one of the reasons the state came down hard on the vendors because we had the malasada and two other food trucks that were just —so many people and tourists were stopping, it was crazy and dangerous. So, what happened is luckily, state parks own the land and so they were able to push the food trucks like 40 feet way back off the road now. So, people can actually pull off the road and it's not dangerous anymore with whatever. So, it's almost like, and I don't know if you would consider writing this, but it's almost like you have to evaluate the ability for people to park at a certain location that you're giving the permit, because it's more than just the roadway and the street, it's what's around it, especially if it's on a roadway if they have to pull off. The other thing is if people are familiar with Church Row up in Waimea, it is actually a really beautiful park and food trucks are parking there. And the question is if you have a roadway next to a park, then if they agree to allow the food vendors there —we changed the law here recently. What's happening is people are pulling their vehicles on park property, and I believe we passed a bill not too long ago where the Director of Parks has to —you have to have some type of agreement with the Director of Parks to allow vehicles to park on the park property. So, there may be a connection here you have to just make a reference if it's use of a right-of-way right where a park is, that you have to have also an agreement with the Park's Director to be able to —or people to pull their vehicles and park on the park property because I believe we passed that law last year. Thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Anyone in Hilo? MR. KANEALI'l-KLEINFELDER: Yes, please, Chair. ACTING CHR. GALEABA: Council Member Kdneali'i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI'l-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair Galimba. Interesting bill. I have some hesitations on the bill itself. Thank you for being here, and welcome Page 12 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 back, Deputy Director. Can you clarify what was said before, definition of a county street in relation to this bill? County street being a what? (Note: At this time, Public Works Deputy Director Malia Kekai came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. KEKAI: The county street is the entire right of way. So, from the edge of one shoulder to the edge of the other shoulder. As Council Member Inaba said, and then the roadway is the actual drivable area. MR. KANEALI'l-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, these potential permits are special activity permits would be required if you are anywhere within the county street? MS. KEKAI: Anywhere in the right of way. MR. KANEALI'l-KLEINFELDER: Property edge to property edge. Anything? Sign? Tables? Whatever? Okay. MS. KEKAI: If you are vending, yeah. MR. KANEALI'l-KLEINFELDER: If you're vending. Then how does that relate to our state highways? We have control of that but that is state, completely separate jurisdictional — MS. KEKAI: Yeah, that's completely separate. I think the state sometimes calls in our officers to enforce that, but that wouldn't be within DPW's jurisdiction. MR. KANEALI'l-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MS. KEKAI: Yeah. MR. KANEALI'l-KLEINFELDER: What is our average sidewalk width? MS. KEKAI: I'd have to get back to you on that one. Let me text my engineers. MR. KANEALI'l-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Yeah, there is a portion of this, the sidewalk use permit that's being adjusted. If we're going to four feet of open width, I think that'll limit potentially, our ability. So, I'd like to know the width please and then — MS. KEKAI: Yeah, I'll see if I can answer but also, I think ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) would also have to be taken into consideration. I know that —I want to say that's 36 inches or somewhere—Keone is telling me seven feet is our average. Page 13 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Seven feet is the average. Okay. Sorry, (Section) 22-3.1, Types of permits. So, we have sidewalk use permits for non- commercial uses, including garbage receptacles, planters, public benches, et cetera. Does the County have to pull a permit to install these on their own? MS. KEKAI: No, we wouldn't pull a permit. I think usually, we just make sure that there are no environmental concerns and that we're still operating within our own right of way. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and then this would be then for a business that wants to install a bench on a sidewalk, would have to get a permit? MS. KEKAL Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Then for commercial, is there anything that addresses commercial use of sidewalks? And I'm thinking back to, I think it was Gerald Takase had mentioned during COVID (Coronavirus disease), trying to find ways for vendors to be able to use County sidewalks for tables. That is why I'm asking because I don't see anything —I guess I'm wondering Section (b) sidewalk use permits for noncommercial purpose versus Section (c) a permit for use of a sidewalk to potentially have tables on to serve customers. I know businesses do that already. I think it's worthwhile because we're looking at this bill as an economic driver. So, that makes sense for our local businesses. MS. KEKAI: I think if we owned the sidewalk, this special activity permit would include the sidewalk. I know there are some certain areas, and I can think of actually a few in Kona that we actually don't own the sidewalk. So then, we wouldn't be able to permit it there, but I think the sidewalk is also included in our County right of way. As long as we own to the sidewalk edge then I think we would be able to permit the activity with this permit. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so a restaurant wanting to have tables on a county sidewalk could potentially use Section (c) of 22-3.1, special activity permit, to have a table to provide to customers which we see, I mean I see it in downtown Hilo, you see it all around. That is still a possibility? MS. KEKAI: I might want to consult with my Building Division on this one, but I would think it should be a possibility as long as, again, like ADA requirements are met and there's enough space for people to get by, then I would say we probably, yes, we could use this. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I like that. I'd like to see that remain if it's not, but from my reading, I think it is allowed in this bill, just through the use of a permit. Then to the makers, I agree on the time. As stated by the Deputy Director, Section (B) in 22-3.9, (A) and (B) could be problematic. Perhaps there Page 14 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 should be an "or" between (A) and (B) or remove one of the two so that it's during the permitted times and days as clarified in the use permit or between the hours of 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. I can understand the thinking and the thought process that design that change in this condition, but I would like to see that opened for use as defined by the permit use times. Then lastly, I don't like the change to the cost. This is an economic development tool to keep the cost low. It takes a lot of work from a business point of view to come in, get the application, fill out the application, provide insurance and everything else that's being required for and at that point tacking on another $25. Although it does cost things to do business, we do pay our taxes in the County of Hawaii, and businesses really do pay a tremendous amount of taxes and wages. And I don't think we need to raise the cost of the application. That would be my only suggestion, and I appreciate the thought process behind the bill. Thank you. I yield, Chair. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thanks. I think this body knows, I'm not a big fan of allowing county assets to be part of a business model, but I actually like the approach of this where it's actually an opportunity to provide like an economic springboard. So, I'm just going to stay in that theme. I think a map on areas where it's absolutely prohibited would be excellent. I would also like to see like an overlay as it relates to commercial activities. For example, Prince Kuhio Plaza, we already know that people are driving there for all of the commercial activities that are happening in and around that area. So, vendors are popping up within the right of ways. Absolutely understand it. You've got traffic. That is a perfect business model, but we also have a farmer's market right there that supports the Department of Hawaiian Homelands and a park. So, I think there are some nuances that we need to kind of tailor into this. For Malia, when I read this bill, it's temporary. It's a temporary permit, but when I read further down, it's for a year. I'm struggling with how temporary is a year. Then what I also recognize is you're going to end up elevating areas of roadside vending that will become, kind of by default, a commercial space, right? Because that's going to be the hot spot over time, and then there's going to be competition, or hopefully, competition to secure that vending permit at the corner of KekuanaWa and Auwae Road, whatever it is, right? So, I'm trying to keep it in the space of how do we provide an economic springboard for some of these vendors, but also encourage them into commercial spaces and/or commercial areas like our farmer's market, like our parks, and then get them going in that area. I'm trusting that there will be some administrative rules kind of developed around this. I would love to see maybe an early iteration or some kind of framework of what the thought process is. Page 1.5 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 Then finally, to the point of our sports teams, it's summertime, everybody's raising money to get to little league or volleyball, or whatever. I love that. I love helping our local teams like that. I do get nervous, though, when the kids are on the side of the road. And then finally, if you could trust but verify, I know Keone Thompson mentioned seven feet. That's an average. I just want to highlight it's an average because I know sidewalks that were built back in the 80s and their requirements were much smaller and didn't have an ADA compliant piece. So, if we could get to, just a little bit more information around the sidewalk widths and where those things occur, I think would be really helpful. To the makers, those are my suggestions. I think that's what this bill was intended to do today, to get feedback, and those are my thoughts. Thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Yes, thank you, everyone, for your feedback and for your suggestions. So, just recapping, we're going to go look at our signs being expressly permitted, revisiting the fee that folks were charged for applying for a permit, the hour limitations between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. I will also be checking with the Police Department on any additional thoughts they have here with this bill. We'll check in also regarding the requirement for a business license and how we're able to kind of provide some flexibility there for those who are doing the one time sports fundraiser, and then kind of having more conversation as well on there are some folks saying we need map of where we are not going to allow it and then some folks were saying we need a map where we are going to allow it. I'm feeling that the language that's currently in there might be the most flexible. We started this bill with identifying certain areas, but then again, like Council Member Lee Loy is pointing out, we might be then forcing commercial activity in a certain area that maybe we don't want to do that. But we might not be able to provide a comprehensive list of all streets and roads that this type of activity cannot occur in. So, we'll have more of that conversation offline but thank you all. And again, this type of activity is not allowed at all in the county right of way at this time. Together with all of your mana`o, we are going to provide a framework that allows it for the first time in a long time, at least for over 20 years, that's where I see this having gone into the Code. So, we will be postponing this bill after Council Member Galimba gets to chime in as well. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. A lot of my thoughts were already expressed by Council Member Lee Loy and others. I would say that for me, I have a constituent who has a restaurant, and she definitely does not appreciate having to do all the things and pay all the money that she does to have a brick and mortar and then to have folks be able to get around all that. So, for me, it would be definitely honing down on the temporary nature of it. I think it is important to have this as a startup for folks, but then there also be a limit so that it doesn't Page 16 PCIA-'15 August 20, 2024 become a perhaps permanent business that has a certain amount of advantages. Those are my thoughts. Thanks, and go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I just want to respond to that. This is not going to be the be all end all solution. I think this is one tool that we are providing our local entrepreneurs to be able to get their product out into the community. But there are other venues, there are private night markets, there are farmer's markets that are going to be popping up at County parks. So, this is again, just one way for folks to get their product out into the community. Really appreciate everyone's mana`o on this particular bill. I'll be working with Council Member Inaba to make those refinements and bring them back to committee. Vote on Motion to Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to postpone Bill 184 to September 3, 2024. Postpone: Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Galimba — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Galimba relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Kierkiewicz. ACTING CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. Let the record reflect that I have resumed the role of Chair at 10:56 a.m. Bill 193: AMENDS CHAPTER 24, ARTICLE 10, DIVISION 5, SECTION 24-280, SCHEDULE 28 OF THE HAWAI`I COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO NO PARKING AT ANY TIME Prohibits parking at any time alongside Kaiminani Drive in North Kona at the following locations: (1) on the south side of Waikane Place from a point 51 feet southeast of Waikane Place extending 399 feet northwest; and (2) on the northside of Waikane Place from a point 75 feet southeast of Anapau Place extending 69 feet northwest of Waikane Place. Reference: Comm.984 Intr. by: Ms. Lee Loy (B/R) Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend passage of Bill 193 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Galimba. Page 17 PCIA-1.5 August 20, 2024 ACTING CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: I see our Deputy Director still in Hilo chambers. I see that this bill is introduced by request, so Deputy Director, if you could provide us some overview of this request, please. (Note: At this time, Public Works Deputy Director Malia Kekai came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. KEKAI: I apologize, I missed this one. I didn't get a chance to review it before I came but let me take a peek at it real fast, that I would actually turn it back over I guess to Holeka and see if he has any, it's in his district so if he has any comments. MR. INABA: I got you, thank you, Deputy. This is a community request that the department did take action on. As you can see in the corresponding Communication 984 on the map, this is a very steep road with a bend on it with driveways that are right along Kaiminani. So, we installed no parking signs to allow those getting out of their driveways to be able to see. So, just want to mahalo the administration for taking quick action on that and this is just a corresponding bill to put it in Code. Thank you very much for your support. ACTING CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, very straight forward. Thank you. Similar to what I was able to do with DPW and Pohoiki. This is the formality of the signs being installed and following the process in our Code. Any questions or comments on this particular measure? Seeing none, all those in favor please say "aye." Vote on Bill 193: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 193 on first (Approved) reading was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Kierkiewicz — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 1. Excused: None. Page 18 PCIA-15 August 20, 2024 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 10:58 a.m., Acting Chair Kierkiewicz MENT: adjourned the meeting. Approved: 4Susan L. K. Lee Lo Ch (Date) �ommittee on Infrastr re and Assets SL/jm Page 19