Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PCIA 2024/09/03 (2022-2024)Policy Committee on Infrastructure and Assets 16' Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii September 3, 2024 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Policy Committee on Infrastructure and Assets ORDER: was called to order at 1:00 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair. Present: Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Vice Chair Ms. Cindy Evans, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member (came in later) Mr. Matt Kdneali'i-Kleinfelder, Member (came in later) Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member Absent & Excused: Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member STATEMENTS The Acting Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Committee Members, the of Business: following item was taken out of order: Bill 184: AMENDS CHAPTER 22, ARTICLE 2 AND ARTICLE 3, OF THE HAWAPI COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO THE USE OF COUNTY STREETS; AND ESTABLISHES A SPECIAL ACTIVITY PERMIT FOR COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES Establishes a process to obtain a special permit and regulations to conduct temporary commercial activity on a County street, and increases fees from $25 to $50 for any permit issued for the lawful use of County streets. Reference: Comm. 944 Intr. by: Mr. Inaba and Ms. Kierkiewicz Postponed: August 20, 2024 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 (Note: There is a motion by Mr. Inaba, seconded by Ms. Villegas, to recommend passage of Bill 184 on first reading.) CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Mr. Inaba, would you like to lead the discussion? MR. INABA: Sure, thank you, Chair. This bill, as a reminder, Bill 184 creates a permitting process to allow for selling and vending in county streets. County streets being any right-of-way owned and maintained by the county to include the sidewalks and shoulders. Currently, this isn't allowed. We do have Director Pause here but joining us via Zoom, Chief of Police Chief Moszkowicz, are you there? (Note: At this time, Police Deputy Chief Reed Mahuna came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MAHUNA: This is Deputy Chief Mahuna, I'm here for Chief Moszkowicz. MR. INABA: Thank you, Deputy Mahuna. Just wanted to give you the opportunity at the first hearing in Committee. They wanted to get some mana`o from the Police Department so wanted to afford you folks that opportunity. MR. MAHUNA: We have no issues with this bill. We looked it over and we don't have any substantive issues with the bill. MR. INABA: Perfect. Council Member Kierkiewicz and I will circle back, but before we let you go, I will open it up to my colleagues to ask any questions of the Deputy Chief while he's online with us if there are any. CHR. LEE LOY: Go ahead, Ms. Evans. MS. EVANS: Yes. My understanding, and I won't name names, but some specific police officers have mentioned it's very hard to enforce with the current Code as written. Have you received, from your rank and file, any complaints about the ability to enforce a ton of these, especially for me, the food trucks that get parked on the side of the road? MR. MAHUNA: I haven't received any feedback regarding difficulty of enforcement for food trucks and whatnot. I haven't heard anything like that. MS. EVANS: Do you have any idea how many you issue a month? MR. MAHUNA: Citations? MS. EVANS: Yes. Page 2 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 MR. MAHUNA: I think that there are a very few. I couldn't say. I would have to get you that number, but I don't believe that it's a substantial amount. MS. EVANS: Is it something that you track? I mean I don't know enough. It used to be in the old days everything was by report, and it was handwritten out. I know you've computerized everything. Do you actually have specifics that could show you these types of citations? MR. MAHUNA: I could get that number. It would be in our records management system. That number could be provided. MS. EVANS: Okay, please do. Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Let the record reflect that Ms. Kagiwada and Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder has joined us here at 1:05 (p.m.). Anyone else, questions for Mr. Mahuna? Ms. Kimball, go ahead. MS. KIMBALL: Yes, thank you. My question pertains to the criteria for selecting areas where this will be a permitted activity. My concern when this was originally brought to committee was that the police have an opportunity to weigh in on the safety of the area. For example, the size of the shoulder and room for parking and people to pull off. So, I don't see that there's an amendment before us that includes that, but I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on the necessity of including some language that would make that an important part of the decision -making in terms of permitting an area for this use. MR. MAHUNA: We would have no issue with that type of amendment, but when looking at Section 22-2.5, "Any permitted commercial activity should not impede or inconvenience the public or any person in the lawful use of a County street." So, we took that to mean that it has to be an area that is appropriate for such vending. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, I see where that potentially covers that, although I don't see the call out to safety, right? That's really my concern here is there are areas where, depending on the traffic flow, for example, and the speed on average people are moving down a particular roadway, is there enough length of open space on the shoulder for them to pull over, slowdown, and stop? So, I think that is kind of different from the language of impede or inconvenience. It has more of a direct call out to the safety in terms of motor vehicle operation in the area that's being identified. MR. MAHUNA: We would have no objection to a provision in there that allows for safety review before permits are being issued. Page 3 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, if I may have latitude to address Council Member Kimball's question here. MS. LEE LOY: Sure, go ahead, Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: One of the things that Council Member Inaba and I would like for this body to explore is the identification of county roadways that we will allow this sort of permitted activity. We suggest that because members of the public and Public Works and Police may each have different ideas of what constitutes a safe space, and I also want to prevent anybody from suggesting a roadway that is actually not within the county's jurisdiction. I can imagine a lot of folks are going to actually propose state highways, and to have to deny their application for that reason, I think a lot of the confusion could be cleared if we just identify, per district around the island, what county roadways are most conducive for these activities. So, I would love your thoughts on that proposal. CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kimball, any follow up? MS. KIMBALL: Double thumbs up. I think it's a similar strategy to other things we've been looking at whether it's destination areas, the bike path, whatever, rather to set up like criteria for identifying specific areas. I like that idea a lot. I think that addresses some of my concerns about safety with respect to some of these areas. So, I appreciate that. CHR. LEE LOY: Alright, anyone else? Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. I'm just wondering, do we have any criterion here about how expensive these operations can be or is that just left up to whoever is trying to get the permit? The reason I ask that is because we have had people, I think it was mentioned, I don't remember by whom last time, talking about how our brick -and -mortar businesses pay a lot, do a lot, for the brick -and - mortar business. And this is kind of a way for people, I think it's seen for very small operations or something very specific, maybe one item or something that people are selling, fish that they got, whatever, which shouldn't really be in direct competition with our brick -and -mortar businesses. But if there's nothing kind of capping it or looking at what the upper limit is, what they can be selling or how much or how involved it can be, I'm just wondering, do we run the risk of people wanting to do this instead of brick and mortar, and kind of really more legitimate almost full-time business or something going this way? I'm just wondering, do we have anything, or have we thought about that aspect of it, or do we think that will just work its way out due to the nature of the permitting? CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ms. Kagiwada for that question. We're hoping to have questions around Chief Mahuna's—he's going to step away. If you want to put a pin in that cushion, we can pick it up in further discussion, but if you have any Page 4 September 3, 2024 questions related to the bill as it relates to the Police Department and its enforcement of it, love to hear that now. If not, we can pick that question up later. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, I'll wait until he's —sorry about that. CHR. LEE LOY: Perfect. I see Ms. Evans' light again. MS. EVANS: Okay. So, I'm looking at the types of permits, Section 4, Section 22-3. 1, the definition of special activity permits. Have you, by chance, looked at that? The reason I'm saying that is recently, I saw someone pull their car off the road, pop open her trunk, put out a table, and said she was having a rummage sale. I also saw some people selling lemonade, had a lemonade stand. It looked like — and here's the thing, I think one of the challenges for you is you can only regulate if it's in the county right of way. So, how would you know if that person is within that 20- or 30-foot right of way? Maybe they're actually a little beyond that. How would your officer be able to discern that? MR. MAHUNA: Sometimes it's very difficult to know if there's a —we're not able to survey the area. So, if it's close, it would be difficult to know, but most times, we use our best judgment in knowing what is the county right of way and not. If it's close then there might be some question, and if there is a question, we don't issue the citation. We do more research until such time as we can determine exactly who owns the property or what the property right of way is. So, sometimes it is difficult to determine, and if that's the case, then we err on the side of caution and we don't issue or take enforcement action until we can get the information and know for sure. MS. EVANS: Because I wanted to follow-up on Chair Kimball's question. Let's say they pulled off, they're not in the gravel area or shoulder, it looks like they just moved off on the private sector and they pop a trunk, but they create an unsafe condition because all of a sudden, it's kind of like when people do garage sales, right? They drive by and go, "I've got to go see what's there." and they start pulling off. They create what I think she was getting to, an unsafe condition. So, at that point, not that they're in the right of way, can you shut them down? Can you cite them for creating an unsafe situation on the road? MR. MAHUNA: I think it would depend. It would be kind of specific to the given situation, but we can take enforcement action if there is a danger. I think we can probably work with Public Works to determine what areas are safe and what areas are not. If there are unforeseen circumstances where an area that was deemed to be safe is all of a sudden not because we couldn't anticipate how many people would pull over, or the amount of customers a particular vendor could attract, we can always look at that given situation and address it individually. MS. EVANS: Thank you, Chair. Page 5 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 CHR. LEE LOY: Alright, thank you, Ms. Evans. Anyone else, questions for Mr. Mahuna as it relates to the Police Department and enforcement? Alright, seeing none, Mr. Mahuna, thanks so much for being here. We're going to continue our conversation with the makers, but I also know DPW (Department of Public Works) is in the chambers here listening to a lot of the questions. Mr. Inaba, I'm trusting that if you have any follow up —go ahead. MR. INABA: Thank you. Thank you again, Deputy Mahuna. They are at a conference on Kauai, so appreciate the time joining us from there. Circling back to the conversation and Director Pause, if you want to—do you have anything to add at this point in the conversation before we kind of unravel the suggestions we've made and have begun to discuss? (Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. PAUSE: Aloha, Steve Pause, Director of Public Works. So, I've got briefed from Deputy Director Malia on the last meeting and I also spent a little time with our engineering folks. You're aware that they issue permits for conducting work in the right of way, presently, publication dispensers, sidewalk use, work in a county right of way for landscaping or trenching, driveway work as well as work for private water line. So, I would envision this would fall into that same area of review, if you will, where an applicant would come in, and I don't think we devised an application form yet. But an applicant would come in and submit to engineering and I think, as Reed mentioned, we would afford the Police Department an opportunity to take a look at it. I think the issues that we're really confronted with here are safety, right? So, is it safe to set up where they want to set up? Is there adequate parking? Are we placing pedestrians at risk if they want to come along to the food truck or to the vendor? And then I think the other thing you've captured as well is nuisance, right? We need to make sure they manage their waste; we don't have just trash all over the place. I don't know that we've considered sound nuisance, right? Most of these food trucks and vendors may have generators running and that whole thing. So, I'm confident that we can devise a permit application, especially with respect to the exact location and then run that through our engineering, our traffic folks to really take a serious look at what it's going to do to impede traffic and the flow of traffic and make sure that whatever permissions are granted are going to be able to —the operations of it will be able to be conducted safely. I think lastly, by doing this, I know a while back, it might have been six months ago that the state came out and made an announcement that they were going to be enforcing no vendors in their rights -of -way. At least over on this side of the Page 6 PCIA- 16 September 3, 2024 island where I'm familiar with, there are still vendors working on state right of ways. But I think permitting system like this would likely provide a bit more teeth for the folks that need to enforce. If it's creating an issue, do they have a permit I guess would be the first thing to ask. But yeah, I think a previous version of this you mentioned maybe designating areas around the county. That kind of fell out here, but maybe it's back on the table. It's probably not a bad idea to take another look at that. I guess it's a matter of expediency and how fast you want to try to roll something out. MR. INABA: Thank you, Director Pause. So, with that, kind of circling back to the conversation from Council Member Kagiwada. Currently in the bill, there isn't a provision as to a size limit. Ultimately, we know we're not going to allow somebody to build up a tent city thing, do need to be removed. So, the intention of the 6 (a.m.) to 6 (p.m.) was that things are removed every day. There is no amendment before you today because we are waiting on this discussion as to whether we identify certain places but ultimately, it would be the intention to have things be removed and that discretion would ultimately lie with the department when they issue the permits, not to be allowing overnight type things. But if somebody did want to come in from 12 noon to 7:00 p.m., we're able to allow that leeway. So, just kind of to try and figure out this way of which we will identify those safe areas, we are proposing having DPW review, having Police review, but there are different ways to do it, right? We can do it in a schedule as we do in those other sections like the bike tours. We can also consider whether we want to provide ourselves and the public a little bit more flexibility and if we considered doing it via resolution, similar to how the fuel taxes we establish it by resolution. It stands until a new resolution is passed that either changes or adds to it. So, kind of just want to hear from you folks. I always like a little bit more flexibility, especially with this being a new kind of concept that gives us the opportunity to make tweaks as necessary without having to go through so many readings. So, to answer your question, Council Member Kagiwada, yeah, right now, no specific size limitation. There was a size limitation in one iteration of this bill, but right now, we've really toned it down to be as simple as possible and allow that leeway with the department. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Thanks for that, Council Member Inaba. Yeah, so, I guess I'm just checking back, but the intent is not to necessarily provide an alternative for like full business scale models here but really for more of a starter businesses or side businesses or small kind of tent thing. Okay, thanks. Alright, back on the other question you just asked. Yeah, I'd be interested to know how we may be proactive about this. Or are we expecting —we want to expect our Page 7 September 3, 2024 communities to come to us and say we would like if you consider this area or are we going out to go out to the community and do some community meetings where we ask the community for this information, or would we simply be like maybe sitting down with DPW folks and saying we think these places might be good in our districts, what do you think? So, I think I would prefer to get the community to come to us or weigh in some way, than me sitting down with DPW and trying to figure out what those might. But it would be nice if we had a process for that. Thank you, I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kagiwada. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder then Ms. Evans. Go ahead, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Pause, thank you for being here. If someone was in a county right of way, sidewalk, and they didn't have a permit and they had set up a tent, what would we do to them? (Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. PAUSE: Well, that's an enforcement issue. So, if the phone call came into us and they didn't have a permit, we would likely contact or tell the person who was calling to complain to contact Police. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is with the assumption this bill would have passed? MR. PAUSE: Yes, because by putting in a permitting system, you provide a level or a means to enforce. Either you have a permit, or you don't. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MR. PAUSE: But I think someone also brought up the point, which is also a valid point, for the most part, we get phone calls all the time about issues with roads that are actually state roads and not county roads. So, that's another point to mention that by doing this on county roads and county right of ways, you're not likely going to get the state to follow suit. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I know where I live in District S on the way home, there's a lot of different vendors, and has been over the years; some safely set up and some not; most being on either Highway 11 or Highway 130, both state highways. My big challenge is, not that they're selling stuff on the side of the road, my big challenge is when people stop their car in the middle of the road to make an immediate left-hand turn with no warning, whether there's no ability for anyone to recognize why they're turning, because it's a normal flow, turning into Page 8 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 a random stop specifically made by our visitors. That's where we have a dangerous situation evolve really rapidly, and that has bugged me. So, if this becomes a way for us to tackle that, great. I am recognizing it's a different jurisdiction, but we do enforce laws on state and county roads and private roads via our existing county laws. So, I'm not sure how that ties in. That's what I'd like to see represented in the application, is how that traffic flow around their specific activity may put other drivers or pedestrians at risk. That'd be my big ask for the department, and it may not be in this specifically. I had asked in a previous question was more we have a lot of folks in our rights of way and most of them being homeless and if this bill becomes a methodology of approaching our homeless folks because they do or don't have a permit. I'm wondering if there's a tie in within your department and if you've reviewed that. MR. PAUSE: I would say at this point it's not something we've considered. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. I yield, Chair. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Evans. MS. EVANS: Yeah, I like the idea of looking at areas that we might designate. Would the Department consider if we designate the areas lowering the speed limit to 25 miles an hour or something in that area if we end up designating it? Because I agree that people start seeing something and all of a sudden, it's like a knee jerk reaction. It is a distraction, I guess is the best way like school children coming out after school. So, I'm just putting it out there. This might be worthy of a speed limit discussion too if we designate these areas. MR. PAUSE: So, I think your question is would we consider, and I'd say yes, at this point we would have to consider that based on the designation and if we're specifically calling out areas that we would want these things to set up. MS. EVANS: The other thing that strikes me is I have a lot of food trucks up in Waimea, and one of the things is it's almost like a farmer's market in that they kind of assume that spot is their spot. So, the other thing is to consider, if in fact these are great designated areas. The question is how do you manage it so if someone —again, look at our county farmer's market and maybe how we regulate someone who feels maybe they have a right to that spot and they hold it for years. Anyway, you know what I'm saying? Priority setting and who gets the spot. I suspect that eventually will be a problem. MR. PAUSE: I would think we could put that into the permit, and I'm thinking out loud, the food trucks in Waimea for the most part, are all on private property. Page 9 KNINWO September 3, 2024 The food truck night over at Parker and Church Row and those sorts of things, I don't specifically recall whether there are issues with — MS. EVANS: Well, part of it is because people have been complaining, but before that they were pulling off and people were parking in our parks and people were parking in the right of way to get those food trucks that were parked on private land. Again, what we're talking about, they were pulled off enough, so they were not in the county road, but people were parking in the county road into our county park area. MR. PAUSE: Right, and we still have in the Code that, and you're familiar with this because of Opelo (Road) that cars cannot legally park on the pavement for the road. So, there's a lot of things that would come into play. Again, I would hope that we would consider all of that when we decide whether or not an area is appropriate for a vendor to get a permit. MS. EVANS: Okay, thank you. To the makers of the bill, I was looking at language in Section 7, Section 6, and then your Section 5, and for consistency in 6 and 7, they talk about the agreement to indemnify; defend; and hold harmless the County, will be executed to the satisfaction of Corporation Counsel. Then up in Section 5, you get a little more specific language that is different from the other two sections, and I don't know if you want it to read the same or not. I guess the last question is you have chosen $1 million for public liability insurance and I'm just wondering, and that's for Corporation Counsel, have we come up with that's kind of our norm now, a million (dollars)? Okay, thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Ms. Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Yes, thank you. Yeah, really interesting conversation and discussions and what just comes to mind to me is really wanting to remind not only the vendors, but the community, that here you have council members coming up with legislation to allow for a small business to operate in otherwise public spaces. So, some of that responsibility then also falls to these businesses to talk to their customers and clientele. Those of us who have done any sign waving in the last six months, there's a responsibility to us to make sure that the people that are on the side of the road with us are behaving responsibly. So, this would be my ask is, the recognition from community for their responsibility, and for the opportunity, and to ensure that you drive safely, and you take those precautions so that opportunities like this can be made available in public spaces and side of the roads. The state had other perspectives on it, but I appreciate the makers' creativity in putting this together. I think that identifying the areas is going to be really important just to reduce confusion. Also, just want to encourage our community and our small businesspeople who would be on side Page 10 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 of the roads, to operate with aloha and leave that sense of entitlement at home, and that paying it forward, it comes back around with sharing those spaces with one another. So, just as we sit here trying to create policy to ensure health and safety and provide for these rights and opportunities, I just appreciate our community taking the responsibility as well. We don't want to have to legislate every little detail. So, with all of us taking the responsibility and recognizing the opportunity and embracing it with gratitude, we can together ensure the health and safety of our community and the opportunities for this kind of economic vitality, even in our county road spaces. I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Anyone else? Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Just wanting to maybe get consensus from the group that if legally permissible, we'd go the resolution route to provide for flexibility, both adding and removing areas. If you folks wouldn't mind chiming in there rather than having it set in the Code and making it more difficult that way. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for providing the opportunity to weigh in. My preference would be a schedule within the Code, and I do realize that it results in an extra reading, but I think just for ease of use from the consumer side having it available in a schedule is my preference. I would also add just, since I got the mic again, I do think that we want to limit the areas that are able to be designated as appropriate for this based on the speed limit. I would say 35 at the very high end, but 25 preferably, but I defer to you smarter people than me. Thank you, Director Pause, for the look. I yield, Chair. CHR. LEE LOY: Alright, Ms. Kimball. The maker is asking for guidance whether the body is leaning towards resolutions or towards within the Code. Any more feedback? Ms. Evans. MS. EVANS: I think the schedule is a really good idea, but it might depend on the kind of commercial activity because I'm a little —still in my mind, I keep thinking what does that really mean if someone pulls off with a trunk and pops up and throws out a table and they're selling like —a homeless person let's say, or somebody is trying to get some extra money, they pull off the road and we tell them, "Well, you should go and tell county and get a permit or whatever." Again, maybe a little bit more discernment on what we mean by commercial activity. I don't know, just some thoughts because I can see where you would schedule stuff, but I also see where, I don't know, I just see some stuff going on and I can understand why they pulled off the road and they're to trying to sell wares out of the trunk so they can make money, right? Would that be commercial activity? So maybe a little more thought about that maybe would help. Thank you. Page 11 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 CHR. LEE LOY: Alright, thanks Ms. Evans. Anyone else? Any other suggestions, thoughts? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. I actually like Ms. Evans' idea that you could break this into two pieces, simple things, lemonade stands. I don't want to get into the weeds, but what we're specifying, what simple things could be done by resolution, by long-standing items that are going to present in the community, large farmer's markets? Things like that could be via Council schedule in our Council, which requires more readings and more public input. So, I like that idea. Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Chair, do you have anything? We are going to postpone, but— CHR. LEE LOY: Perfect. Thank you for that guidance. Yes, I could go either way whether in the ordinance or within a resolution. My only question would be to corporation counsel, and you can vet this with them is how much enforcement would be provided through a resolution for Police Department in this kind of situation. I think my colleagues, everyone who has mentioned safety, everything that I was thinking through where it was in relationship to a farmer's market, other commercial activities. I do like the idea of inviting maybe Parks into this conversation because if it's right next to a park on the way, I mean why not just have them go get a park vending permit and go be a vendor in the park? I think that led me into if the nearest commercial activity and/or zoning and/or park was more than ten miles away, that might lend itself to a space in our rural communities that might be able to kind of tackle this commercial activity. I think finally, as you guys put your heads together for the maker and the Department of Public Works, I think understanding the timeline, I know Director Pause, you mentioned that the state would be enforcing no vending within the state right of ways. I think coupled with that is this piece and if you had timeline, I know they stated it, but I think it always starts with a shot across the bow, right? So, I just want to be clear, unless you have some guidance as to if they've issued any directives, Director Pause? MR. PAUSE: No, I'm not aware of it. When I have my every other week conversations with District Engineer Takiue, he continues to indicate that it's a source of frustration that there are vendors out there just heading up Puainako, boiled peanuts and fish and malasadas on the other side of the island, that continue to vend in state rights -of -way. He has expressed frustration to me from time to time about enforcement, so, I don't know if that picture is going to change. Page 12 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 CHR. LEE LOY: Ok, great. Then finally to both the makers, I know oftentimes signage helps with their enforcement. And in this way, I don't know if through the perming process, there's any signage that's required whether it's on the side of the road, whatever that might look like. Those are my thoughts to the maker, but I understand you guys are going to put your heads together for a little bit longer. If there are no other comments, Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Yes, thank you. I just want to clarify when we're talking about schedules, we're talking about permitted locations not permitted goods that we were going to allow them to sell or not sell. I just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page there. The previous comments from the last hearing regarding things like the signs, expressly permitted, those things are all still noted, and we will include that in the amendment in a couple weeks. In the meantime, if you folks would all consider thinking about those streets in your districts that would likely be a good place for this type of activity, so if we do proceed, we can try and get things rolling in a quickly yet safe manner through review. Vote on Motion to Mr. Inaba moved to postpone Bill 184 to September 16, 2024. Postpone: Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz and carried by the following (Approved) voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Galimba — 1. Excused: None. Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business. of Business: BILLS FOR The Acting Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 1.65: AMENDS CHAPTER 24, ARTICLE 10 OF THE HAWAI`I COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO PARKING Changes the County Building parking lot located at 25 Aupuni Street in Hilo from a two-hour metered parking zone to a two-hour parking area. Reference: Comm.884 Intr. by: Ms. Evans Postponed: June 4, June 18, and July 23, 2024 (Note: There is a motion by Ms. Kimball, seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz, to recommend passage of Bill 165 on first reading.) Page 13 PCIA- 16 September 3, 2024 CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Evans, this is your bill, and we have a motion, would you like to lead the discussion? Motion to Amend: Ms. Evans moved to amend Bill 165 with the contents of Comm. 884.2. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Evans, on the amendment. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Basically, I'm just amending the effective date. I spoke to Director Pause that if this bill passes, I believe this would give the department time to put together their plan on making it effective on January 1, 2025. They would have to, obviously, make some decisions and decide how they would make this effective. So, I ask for your favorable support. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Anyone else on the amendment? Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: On the amendment, I'm supportive of the amendment. We can go from there, thanks. CHR. LEE LOY: Perfect. Anyone else on the amendment? Alright, seeing none, Ms. Evans, any more comments? Alright, we have a motion on the floor to amend Bill 165 with the contents of Communication 884.2, all those in favor please say "aye." Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 165 with the contents of Amend: Comm. 884.2 was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Inaba, Kdneali'i-Kleinfelder, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Galimba — 1. Excused: None. CHR. LEE LOY: To the main motion, Ms. Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Thank you, members. Again, I'm asking for your favorable support for this. I heard a lot of comments and then the reason it kept getting extended part of it is just not having the ability of Director Pause and I to have the discussion. Plus, we had to really determine what we had for parking meters in Hilo. We do have a parking lot downtown, we have across the street some meters, but I feel strongly about this building going to the two-hour parking limit versus a meter for a couple reasons. But for me, this is the people's house. This is where people come to the Council, this is where people come to the Page 14 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 Mayor's office. I feel like it's very friendly and I think because of the location of this building —if it was in downtown Hilo where all the merchants were it would be different. But I think it lends itself to be very friendly to our public that comes here to do their business with the Mayor or the Council. I do believe that having looked at the meters and understanding the age of them and so many of them, I don't know if you've walked out and looked at them, but they're really probably —if you disagree with me, the condition of them are not very good. I was talking to the director this morning that if this passes, he will have available to him possibly some replacement meters for those that are broken and have been identified broken. At the lot downtown and the lot across the street, there's already broken meters so he has replacements. So, it's a way, I think, to repurpose those if they get removed. So, anyway, I believe in this, and I think —I just ask for your favorable support. Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. I will continue to remain in support of this bill. In other agencies or government buildings that I have to go to, submit an application or anything like that, I have a problem when public has to pay to come to these types of buildings to engage with government. So, I'll be in support of this bill. Thank you for introducing it. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Director Pause, can I ask you a question, please? Thank you. What is the intention for enforcing the two-hour time limit if this change is made? (Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. PAUSE: So, we do have a parking attendant here that's based in Hilo and based in our building across the street. There are other locations, I believe downtown there's an opportunity to enforce two hour (time limit), I think you've seen it in cities, they chalk mark the tires and come back two hours later when they have the time to do that. So, that's really the only way I know to enforce it. What we're trying to do is not have people come and park all day. MS. KAGIWADA: Exactly. So, I guess what I'm trying to get at is, do you have the ability to enforce the two-hour time limit? MR. PAUSE: We have a full-time parking attendant that I would hope would be able to, as they perform their duties now with looking at meters for expiration times, that this would just be a different task. Page 1.5 PCIA-1.6 September 3, 2024 MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. I have that concern too of people parking there all day, especially because there are a lot of people who work in this building that don't have parking spots. I think they would love to park there if they could. If we don't enforce the two-hour time limit, and I think that sends a very confusing message, or if we enforce it sporadically, I also think that is not great. But if we can enforce it regularly, that seems good. I guess for the public, I saw, for instance, somebody here earlier who I think was getting change and going out to put more in their meter after being here for a little while. So, that person would have to actually go out and find a new place to park if they were here for over two hours. Is that correct? MR. PAUSE: I guess technically, yes. I think there are other ways to work around that. Council Member Evans and I had a conversation if somebody is here for one of the long, protracted hearings that occur from time to time, perhaps there would be a way to be able to get a tag or something that would allow them to be longer than two hours. I think that's something that we could probably work on. But again, I think the intent is not to raise revenue as much as it's just to create an environment of fairness. So, the two hours is really based on —people I think have stated come here, do your business, and be done. MS. KAGIWADA: So, people currently who come here and are testifying and need to be here for longer than two hours could also —we could also set up a thing where they would get a tag? MR. PAUSE: I would think that would be something that we could do, yeah. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Alright. Well, once again, I'm not going to be supporting this. I think it's unnecessary, a lot of work to get very little, and I think there are ways to open our parking up to people who are testifying here without opening our parking up to long-term parkers. I hear you have one full- time person who deals with everything else, and I just feel like we won't be enforcing —able to enforce even with the best intentions. So, that's my biggest concern, is that we're going to be setting ourselves up to do something the county has sometimes done, in which I think is not good, which is say this is what the law or this is what the rules are going to be, and then we don't enforce it. So, I have a concern about that. But my understanding is a lot of people do want this, so I probably will be outnumbered here, but I just wanted to say that for the record. Thanks, and thanks for your input, Director. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kagiwada. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. This is for the outside corner or the actual whole entire parking lot for this building? Page 16 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 MR. PAUSE: It's the entire parking lot. I believe right now there are 50 spaces that are available for the public. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I like it. It makes sense. I agree with Council Member Evans and Mr. Inaba that parking for people when they come to participate in government, sometimes because we force them to by legislation and they need to come in and talk about it with us, should be free to them. I actually looked into this a long time ago and there was some concern about opening up the parking because people in the surrounding businesses would abuse the free parking because there is limited parking in Hilo. At this point in seeing the amount of government -sponsored spaces we have in town in this area right now, I feel comfortable in passing this measure without impacting the community or the businesses or ourselves with unwanted parking. We do have our parking attendants that Mr. Pause has alluded to. We do have those attendants still and they will help enforce any laws we put in place. So, I like it. I'll say I'll be supporting the measure and thank you for bringing it forward. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, just real quick. We don't have a whole lot of parking meters in Kona for starters. But just so I can be clear, and I appreciate your sentiments, Council Member Kagiwada, about enforcement and having concerns there. But it's been what I have seen in almost the six years of coming here at least once a month, the staff that utilizes the paid parking or whatnot, they're out there like every two hours and they don't want to be late because the staff that's on it is on it. Either which way, I could just see that person still having that sense of urgency and there still being that follow-up whether or not they're looking at a meter or they're looking at a check mark on a tire, or whatever their method of — so, I'm going to be supporting this today. I respect and honor your concerns is what I'm trying to say, but I am hopeful and fairly confident that the system for enforcement will remain great and the opportunity to provide the people that come to do business in this building and to operate here for whatever purpose that don't get —I'm grateful to pay for a parking spot every month. But anyway, I'll be supporting this. I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: I want to make a really simple suggestion which is, let's try this, not take the meters out, put those little funny bonnets on them, and leave them in. If we see a problem, just go ahead and revert this later. I don't think we need to put a sunset on it or anything, but I would suggest not immediately going to the removal until we've had a chance to see if there are any unintended consequences. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Mr. Pause, any response? Page 17 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 MR. PAUSE: I agree with that. I think Council Member Evans and I discussed —we didn't call them bonnets, but I think we called them meter covers, but, yes, I agree. I've actually seen them probably back on the mainland at Christmas time for downtown businesses. They put like a little Santa Claus bonnet over the meters for free parking. We can work something out. I think there's nine Council Members divided by 55 each. CHR. LEE LOY: I think we have a new resource to get more money. If there are no more discussion, thank you, Ms. Evans, for advancing this. I absolutely agree that civic engagement and encouraging civic engagement and participation in government is the corner stone and making that simple. Just as a side note and Ms. Kierkiewicz may remember we had protracted discussions on a chicken bill, and we actually had to break every two hours to remind those testifying to take a pause and go feed the meters. So, I also know people who actually got parking tickets and wrote letters to the courts asking them to waive the fees and fines and the courts did listen and acknowledged that they were here participating in. government. So, those parking tickets were waived. So, I do support this bill for all the reasons why we want to invite people to this house. Alright, seeing no more discussion, we have a motion to forward Bill 165, as amended, to the Council with a favorable recommendation, roll call vote, please. Vote on Bill 165: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 165, as Drafter amended to Draft 2, on first reading was carried by (Approved) the following roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy — 7. Noes: Committee Member Kagiwada — 1. Absent: Committee Member Galimba — 1. Excused: None. Page 18 PCIA-16 September 3, 2024 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 1:56 p.m., Chair Lee Loy adjourned the MENT: meeting. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, everyone. Approved: anCl Assets SL/jm (Date) Page 19