HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CRCOC 2024/09/03 (2022-2024)Committee on Communications,
Reports, and Council Oversight
33" Session
Hawaii. County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
September 3, 2024
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Communications, Reports, and
ORDER: Council Oversight was called to order at 3:32 p.m., in the Council Chambers,
Hilo, by Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair.
ROLL CALL -
Present: Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Vice Chair
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
Mr. Matt Kdneali'i-Kleinfelder, Member (came in later)
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
Absent & Excused: Ms. Cindy Evans, Member
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.)
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Committee Members, the
of Business: following item was taken out of order:
Comm. 989: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY MANFRED LAUBICHLER, PH.D.,
DIRECTOR OF DECISION THEATER AND CHELSEA DICKSON,
ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF DECISION THEATER AT ARIZONA STATE
UNIVERSITY REGARDING DECISION THEATER, AN INNOVATIVE
APPROACH TO ADDRESS SOCIETAL ISSUES THROUGH DATA
ANALYTICS, MODELING, AND INTERACTIVE VISUALIZATIONS
From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated August 7, 2024.
; and
Comm. 989.1: From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated August 27, 2024, transmitting a
slide deck from Arizona State University.
CRCOC-33 September 3, 2024
Motion to Close File: Ms. Kimball moved to close file on Comm. 989.
Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
MS. KIMBALL: If I may just take a brief opportunity to introduce all you folks
to members of the Decision Theater community from Arizona State University
(ASU). I will let them introduce themselves mostly because I'm afraid of trying
to pronounce Manfred's name. I would like to just preface the conversation by
saying I've mentioned these folks a few times and the possibility of using this
platform for us, as a decision -making body, to improve our data driven decision
making. I think in particular with respect to Bill 134, which was talked about
earlier today, this might be a platform where that data could be fed into and
enable us to make better rezoning and land -use decisions. So, without further
ado, I want to pass the floor over to our esteemed guests from ASU for an
introduction to the Decision Theater and the work that they're currently
undertaking in the County of Hawaii. So, Chelsea and Manfred, please, whoever
you'd like to kick us off.
(Note: At this time, Arizona State University's Director of Decision
Theater Manfred Laubichler and Associate Director of Decision Theater
Chelsea Dickson came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MR. LAUBICHLER: Thanks, Heather. Chelsea, why don't you start the
introductions because you are much better known on the island than I am.
MS. DICKSON: Sounds good. I'm Chelsea Dickson, I am our Director of
Strategy, Engagement, and Impact with the Decision Theater. I'll take over
sharing slides right now, if that's alright with everybody while Manfred makes his
introduction.
MR. LAUBICHLER: Thanks, Chelsea. Great if you could share the slides. I'm
Manfred Laubichler that's how you do it, Heather, but I go by Manfred because of
the seemingly difficulties that English speakers have with this name. I'm the
Director of the Decision Theater as well as the school of Complex Adaptive
Systems. As Heather indicated, we have worked as Decision Theater for almost a
year now on the island on a project that takes a lot of community input and
participation and tries to turn that into models that are traditionally, this class was
in the Decision Theater framework. It's a pilot project. We have met some of
your colleagues while doing that. Heather's invitation today gives you just a brief
overview of the Decision Theater as such and what it can do and how we do
things. We're not getting into any of the specifics because that would require a
more in-depth conversation. This is just to orient everybody in the chamber as to
what the Decision Theater is, what it can do, and whether we can be helpful for
you. Chelsea, please take it over.
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(Note: At this time, Director of Decision Theater Manfred Laubichler and
Associate Director of Decision Theater Chelsea Dickson provided a
PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing
of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings
on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is
made a part of the record, see Comm. 989. L)
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you first, for the presentation. I'm sure my colleagues
are probably pretty aware that this was a very surface level presentation about the
kinds of tools that the Decision Theater team is capable of developing.
In our conversations, we had a demonstration, I think as far back as April now,
where they went over some of the tools that they've built for other organizations.
For me —and they were at a stage where they were really looking for and looking
at questions that we might, as decision makers in Hawaii County, want to have
answered. So, I think, and feel free, Chelsea and Manfred, to add to this. Part of
what would be beneficial for you is not just to have questions from this body, but
also to have some feedback from the members of this body about the types of
questions that might be useful for us in terms of the future development of a
Decision Theater tool. So, please feel free to provide that to the team as well. I
think we have some perhaps preliminary ideas based on some of the recent
conversations we've had in other areas. With that, I'll yield, Chair, and I hope
this body is intrigued and have some questions and ideas for the guests from
ASU. Thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kimball. Opening it up to
council members with any questions. Council Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: Aloha. Thank you for joining us today and for sharing kind of that
preliminary high-level overview. We have some legislation going through right
now here at the county relating to a change of zone, subdivisions, and what
development look like and the potential impact on existing infrastructure and
existing communities. So, wondering in terms of scope, how does the Decision
Theater help to kind of be able to map those things out, at what cost, and are those
licenses that the county would be able to engage with you folks in to provide us
with those tools and those instruments to help us make better decisions here at the
Council?
MR. LAUBICHLER: Yeah. Thank you for those questions. So, let me sort of
start with how we would go about doing that. So, we actually have quite some
experiences in those types of challenges because they are everywhere. So, the
way we would go about this is we would find our current existing data
infrastructure that we prepared for Hawaii where we have already a few dozen
data layers, some of which are immediately relevant for zoning decisions. But we
would sort of work with you and figure out what else we need to incorporate. For
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instance, infrastructure, we have of course a map, so we know where the roads
are. We do not know where the sewers are insofar as they exist and where other
sort of buried infrastructure is. So, this would be something that by working with
you, we would add additional layers so that we get a representation of what is
there.
Then we would start this process that Chelsea was describing by soliciting input
into who is affected how by any kind of zoning decisions because that would give
us an idea. If you think about the seven screens, so, imagine the first one would -
be a map where you highlight your proposed zoning decisions. Then we still have
six screens where we would then highlight with the underlying modeling that we
do. How certain communities, certain groups, certain costs, in terms of
infrastructure and everything that is determined to be important, how that would
be affected by the one decision that you select on the screen with the map. So,
then you would see this, and the participants in a Decision Theater experience
would be able to discuss and assess and sort of weigh between costs and benefits
of any sort of decision.
What might happen, what generally happens in such a first engagement is that
then issues are being raised that have not been sort of incorporated in the first
round of the tool. So, all of a sudden, new dimensions show up that nobody had
thought about because there was no such visual and modeling aided decision -
making tool. We would then, again, discuss this and sort of, with the group,
figure out how to incorporate those additional dimensions, and do that in an
intuitive way to finally sort of we're all feeling that this tool is now useful and
ready, and can be deployed for a specific planning decision. So, this is about the
process of how that would be designed.
The way we would do that with you, ASU is a university that has a charter and
part of ASU's charter is that we should be useful, I'm paraphrasing here, it's don't
more eloquently, we should be useful to the communities that exist. As you
know, ASU has a presence in Hawaii. So, from the point of view of ASU, we
should be useful to the community of Hawaii. So, that means we are very open
to collaborate with you, to help you to offer our technological expertise.
As to what the costs are, I'm running an organization where my only concern is
that I need to pay my people. So basically, we don't make any profit. We are not
interested in those kinds of things, and I think we are a very cost-efficient
provider of the services that we do. So, it depends on the complexity of the
problem, how much work hours we need to invest to help developing that with
you.
So, we own our IP and our technology, so any kind of agreement would be that
you would basically be a cooperative partner and that wouldn't be an issue that
you won't have access to the technology that we have.
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MR. INABA: Alright, so just to clarify, the seven screens and those things that
you folks have, is the intention that that technology exists here, or that the—?
MR. LAUBICHLER: Yes. So, as part of the project that we currently have in
Hawai `i, we developed that mobile seven screen version that Chelsea talked
about, and that Heather saw in April. It's our intention for a variety of
cooperative agreements and for those in the Hawaiian Community Foundation
that those mobile versions of the even screens stay on the island. So, in that
sense, if you want to get started or test it out, the technology is already on the
island; we could sort of develop it with you. I think we could —I'm sure you have
a room that can accommodate those screens and then we could even high check
the Council chamber because the way I see it, where you are sitting, that would be
the round of the seven screens, and you would have to sit in the other chairs. But
truly, you have better rooms for that. So, that would all be there.
To do a first project that wouldn't require any big infrastructure investment on
your part, if you then decide that you would like to have something that is more
closely what we have in Tempe, sort of you want to have your own room as a
Decision Theater because you think this is useful, then we can help you design
that, but that would then be, of course, a capital investment. But for a first project
to see what the technology can do right now there would be no infrastructure
investment on your part. The technology is on the island. We would just have to
figure out how complex the problem is and how easy it is to get the data and all of
those things and then we can sort of do it together.
MS. DICKSON: I would also add, just an emphasis on how iterative our
processes are. So, the projects that we keep referring to that we currently have
going, not only is it a very useful project for Hawaii Island in its own right, it
also can serve as kind of the underlying foundation for any projects you want to
build on top of it. It's kind of like a layered onion approach where we can just
keep adding layers of data or layers of questions that we need asked of the model
on top of each other. And each layer benefits from having the others present.
So, for example, you mentioned zoning considerations and even what we're
working on right now. We already have data, well, we already combined more
than 50 data layers in a single kind of map analysis. So, we have data on the
current zoning, we have data on the current utilization of that zoning. Then, we
could just as likely after this project is completed, if the county was interested in
it, we could also start building in what different hypothetical zoning decisions,
what impacts those might have across the island on a variety of features from
economic development to housing affordability to food system security, all of
those systems as a result of these zoning decisions. So, it all can build on each
other is what I'm saying and having the project already on the island kind of
speeds that up and accelerates what we have to work with to launch into whatever
other questions the county wants to consider.
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MR. INABA: Great. Thank you so much for that insight, looking forward to
seeing how the county can pick up this resource and help our people here. Chair,
I yield.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Thank you so much for this presentation.
It's fascinating and sounds like something we should definitely explore further.
Do you have any experience working with communities that have extensive —we
have something called the Sunshine law here that we work under. Do you have
any experience working in communities like that? Because our decision -making
as a body, all has to be done in public.
MR. LAUBICHLER: I think the decisions here as a whole is designed to be
totally transparent. So, I think it would actually support your requirement because
everything that's done benefits from being in the open, having as many voices at
the table. Or even if you have to document a session and have it accessible via a
recording or things like that, if then somebody raises a question, it was not
immediately part of the discussion, that is a very important insight into the further
development of the tool. We welcome that. So, we are completely transparent.
MS. DICKSON: And intentionally so. I think one of the biggest stereotypical
weaknesses of a lot of data and modeling companies is this idea of the black box
phenomenon of you can only trust it as good as what's been input into the system.
When you don't completely understand what that is or what happened in the
middle, what happened in that box, it's hard to trust the output. So, we do a lot of
intentional effort to make everything not only as transparent as possible, but as
authentically participatory and inclusive as possible.
So, the projects that we have on island right now, for example, we've already
done four different rounds of different types of engagements there, and each time
it's the participants from the last round plus the ability for them to invite
additional people to the workshops. It's meant to be a very open process, not only
to get more perspectives and insights into it, but to increase familiarity with the
tool and help people understand what went into it, create a little bit more trust in
the tool itself, create a little bit more trust in how it was developed, and
understandings of its limitations where it can be very useful and aware there are
certain assumptions that have to be taken into account. But all of that is done
incredibly openly. We're very used to working in those types of environments
and we've worked with different primal areas across Arizona and the southwest as
well where it strikes a dual harmony of being very transparent and open for their
citizens while also maintaining data sovereignty within those nations itself and
doing a lot to protect those data privacy things as well. So, we're familiar with
walking that line.
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MR. LAUBICHLER: One more quick remark about this. So, when you are, as a
Council, realizing that the most important asset is trust and we learned that too
because the Decision Theater itself has a role and the first version was more what
we now refer to as a kind of technocratic fantasy, and that didn't work out that
way. Now that we have discovered the process that actually facilitates as Chelsea
described through that iterative engagement and people being able to see what is
going on and being able to see how the input gets processed and affects which
data to select, which model to build. So, in that sense, we discovered that if you
invest in obtaining the trust the results are transformative, and I think you all
know that too.
MS. KAGIWADA: Alright, thank you so much that sounds amazing, and I still
am not quite sure how it would work with us given that, like I said, we can't just
like go and have a meeting and tape it and then share it with people. We would
have to, I believe, do it in public with people present. We wouldn't have any
meetings that would be separate from the public. We would have to do all of our
meetings, even just learning about the tools, in public. And I think that, like you
said, it could be great to do that because that trust could be built, but just knowing
that also, just I'm thinking of like the time that would take given that we generally
have meetings every two weeks.
I was going to ask you something about length of time your projects, people in
vast communities invest in these projects, is there a range of length of time that
most of your projects take? Is it a year to three years, or what kind of time do
these projects generally take?
MS. DICKSON: It depends on the level of complexity that they want to look at
and how well developed the question is that they have in mind. So, some of the
projects we deal with, they know very specifically —for today's example, we need
to look at land zoning and we want to deal with a hypothetical of what if we
converted more land that's zoned this way into this zoning status, and here's all
the data we have to back that up. If it's that well developed, then we can do stuff
fairly quickly. We can turn stuff around in three months if it's already super well
developed, but usually, that's not the case.
In our ideal world, usually, we are helping to codevelop this process together,
help pull out what some of those questions behind the questions really are that the
data do a longer thing. But that goes back to this iterative process of the pro and
con of an iterative process is it can kind of go through as many cycles as you want
it to and it can be stopped at any point, but you can also add layers at any point.
So, it just kind of depends how many of those layers we're adding.
Our best projects, in my opinion, are the ones that we have going on for several
years but that doesn't mean that it's because it took us several years to get to a
useful product. We have useful products within the first month.
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MS. KAGIWADA: Right, but then you're adding additional questions or
queries?
MS. DICKSON: Exactly. And then just kind of grows as the conversation
evolves.
MS. KAGIWADA: Alright, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much for
your presentation. I look forward to learning even more. I yield.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Council Member
Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Thank you so much for the
presentation. I'm on your website, combing through project solutions and one
that caught my eye was megacity disaster response. I think we have a lot of
responders here on island that are ready to mobilize during times of disaster.
Things still feel a bit disjointed despite our ability over the last decade to respond
to different natural events and the global pandemic. So, I think it would be useful
to map out those resources and begin to identify how these responders could
better work with each other and coordinate with local government.
The question I have though, is related to community emergency planning. Our
county is also in the throes of updating its hazard mitigation plan which entitles us
to federal funding to mitigate risks and hazards. The consultant for this project
recently hosted a community meeting, and I was really disappointed. I was one of
I I people that attended the Hilo event; seven individuals were members of
County government. So, very few members of the public were there. So, I'd like
to think about how the work and the tools that you have available could be used to
help each community plan for emergency events but also for us to take stock of
what sort of hazards we have to plan for and mitigate.
MR. LAUBICHLER: If I sort of take a first stab and then Chelsea can offer many
more dimensions of that. Again, sort of going back to the previous question about
the importance of transparency. So, the way we would approach something like
that, sort of let's take stock of what challenges you have and how you could by
knowing where they are and what they are, happen to potential federal and other
funds that help you mitigate this. That's almost the same game that it is a limited
resource game; there are always more challenges than you have resources.
So, the first question that will arise inevitably, with the communities is how to
prioritize and what is the process by which you make those decisions about
priorities. So, the first step would be to really create a detailed map, what
challenges are there, and then invite the community into not just talking the
abstract, but show them the map, and then show them the consequences, and show
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them what the benefits would be if we invest here first and here second, and
things like that.
Then of course, listen very carefully and say what are the arguments that come
out of the community that might want to see a different priority list. And so, you
would break off from that input and try to explore and see if you do it that way,
then you might be happy but so and so many other people who do not have a
chance and show all of that in a transparent fashion in those maps and models.
Then see whether you can, as you said, you are required to be completely open
and transparent, but if that leads to at least an acceptance of a plan that emerges as
part of those deliberations. That's sort of for the mitigation part.
For the emergency response coordination, I think it's the same thing because we
have somewhat limited, again because of the limitations of resources, but you
have the limited set of expectations about what the emergency response is. And
generally, it does not take into account a lot of the feedback from the affected
people because the Fire Department knows what the Fire Department knows and
so on. So, if you would integrate all of those plans and perspectives and then
again do it in an open way and have the public there and say what's valuable to
them, what needs to be protected, what is the first issue that they really worry
about, you might be able to develop again a plan that probably looks different
than the one that you currently have. But again, that has more buy in from the
affected people. So, that's how I immediately would respond how we would
design an engagement like that. Chelsea, but you have more thoughts on that.
MS. DICKSON: No, I mean I think all of that was great. I was going to say we
did dabble a little bit into current risk scenarios for the island. So, I think another
aspect to add on to what Manfred was saying is kind of those scenario
development processes of like what people see as the most likely risks and
disaster things that might require a response. So, is it hurricanes like a couple
weeks ago? Is it wildfires? Is it sea level rise? Is it day-to-day emergency
management like if a fire in a single house breaks out or a flash flood in a
particular area?
So, talking through those scenarios and then actually running through what the
current response strategy kind of would dictate versus what might be a little bit
more idealized. So, we did get as far as pulling up what those current risks
scenarios have been identified as, especially in relation to sea level rise and
wildfires and what the different areas were and then what the different emergency
response districts were to approximate various response times and that kind of a
thing.
But if that became the underlying project current that we wanted to invest a lot in,
yes, we could easily pull together a lot of those different things into a response
management platform where plans for those different systems are designed and
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with full participation and knowledge of the island so that when those things
happen, people are already empowered in how to respond and it's not dependent
on this thing to be created or information to be disseminated, that it would already
be accessible and ready.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Fantastic. Again, I really appreciate the presentation and
look forward to taking advantage of your connection to our county and the tools
that have already been invested here on our island so we can support more
community engagement. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else? Go
ahead, and then I'll go.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you again for being here. I know the Chair might have a
couple of additional questions. We do have our new administrator, sustainability
administrator for the Office of Climate, Sustainability, Equity and Resilience.
Gosh, I almost forgot the name. She had a question about the utility of the system
for potentially decision -making around wastewater build -out and cesspool
conversion. Obviously, one of the high priority concerns with some good data
sources behind it. So, first of all, I want to make sure that we connect you with
her, Bethany Morrison, and then also anything that you're looking at already with
respect to wastewater, near shore water quality.
I just wanted to highlight for my colleagues, this idea of the seven screens is
there's this set of data and then there were levers that you push and buttons that
you select and then all of the screens change. Basically, you're seeing across a
broad range of areas all these potential impacts. It's pretty darn cool because it
happens all in real time and feels very sci-fi, but I hope we can do another
demonstration at some point over here. But back to my question, with respect to
cesspools, anything that you guys are already looking at with respect to
wastewater?
MS. DICKSON: We have taken it as far as we can go without your assistance is
the short version. We were able to pull quite a few different data sets on water
treatment plants, kind of infrastructure behind it. We had more trouble finding
things related to the quality of those systems or where we can assist in the system
that might exist that need to be augmented or extended. So, we have some
preliminary information in that regard, but I would also say our community
engagements, for those of you who weren't aware have occurred in all the
different geographic regions of the Big Island. We've traveled around, we've met
with a lot of different people, and I only say that to say that water treatment and
the wastewater concerns was a prevalent theme across all of those different
groups. So, it's definitely one that we had kind of earmarked as probably
something worthwhile for the island to consider doing as a full deep dive project.
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But we weren't able yet to find all the data sets to truly investigate that system.
Manfred?
MR. LAUBICHLER: Yeah, same with what Chelsea said. What we're learning,
and this is sort of the beauty of the Decision Theater that we are building tools
and solutions and the cultures in one project that then become useful in another
one. So, one of the ones that we are currently heavily engaged here in the state of
Arizona is the energy system transitions and how the energy system adapts to the
increasing demands. So, from a simply modeling and data perspective, that is
very similar because we are talking about certain types of infrastructures, some of
which are existing, some of which are not existing and you have projections about
what you need to build, what it costs, and what the benefits are and how different
communities are affected.
So, in a way, it's a very similar challenge. So, what I'm saying is we know how
to handle the challenge. As Chelsea said, if we can work with you and get the
exact data that we need to build a model and also work with the community to
figure out what are the concerns so that we can then model the impacts along a
number of dimensions that are relevant for the community, this is something that
would be very straightforward to build.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Kimball. Just a
quick question. First off, and I don't know if it's for Corp Counsel or maybe
Chair Kimball, but some of this seems very relevant to us as council members.
However, the majority of it, with these projects, sounds like something the
administration would actually need to be and the different department heads
would need to be more specifically engaged with your team. Have you worked
with other municipalities and how does that work as far as we've got the
legislative branch and the administrative branch? How does that work for your
models?
MR. LAUBICHLER: Generally, pretty well because in many ways, it is always a
benefit for the legislative or the political layer and the administrative layer who
have their own interesting longstanding relationship. If there is an independent
search party in the room that they can both talk to and that can help them
sometimes sort out some of their challenges.
Currently, for instance, to give you an example, we have been approached by the
most senior advisor to the governor of Arizona, who then brought in the whole
administration of the state of Arizona who realized that they have very desperate
data sources. Some of them are very useful and some of them they don't even
know what they have. They said while we need to bring you guys in, can you
help us build a data architecture for the state of Arizona that allows to facilitate
what we are just discussing here. So, this is at the beginning, but it immediately
sort of brings in the two layers, the administrative layer and the layer of the
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governor and legislature because we are talking to state legislators. All of them
say it is a good idea to have another party there because then we can make more
progress. I don't know about how that is in your situation, but I suspect that it is
like everywhere else in the world.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes, I appreciate that. I just am thinking logistically, let's
say I wanted to come and meet with you to talk about wastewater, and I brought
the Director of the Department of Environmental Management and then we had
that conversation. I don't know if this question maybe should go to you, Chair
Kimball, but just about the process moving forward. I mean there is some
expense for the projects you do for us, and maybe I can talk to Council Member
Kimball outside of this, but just wondering moving forward, here is this incredible
resource that we have the potential to utilize. You were already on island; ASU is
heavily invested. My daughter works for one of your projects at the 'Ako'ako'a
Reef Restoration project. So, I know that there is a lot of synchronicity in the
work that's being done. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what the next
step would be in like creating a project with you and how do we budget it, and
you know just all those things.
MR. LAUBICHLER: So, the short answer is that probably for the day-to-day
design of a project and the acquisition of data, we would be camping out or
working with basically your administrative departments. And we would also have
met some of those folks, and we have a very good rapport, and we sort of speak
the same language. But the administrative departments do not set the kind of
agenda that you as council sets. So, the corroboration would then be such that if
you decide that we really need to have the priority that we need to have this
engagement and we sort out the wastewater problem, or we begin a discussion
about the implications of zonings. That is where you come in as sort of the
Council who listens to the people and sets an agenda, and we would be sort of
primarily partnering with your administration there to get the data, to build the
models, to give you the opportunity. Then another branch of this would be sort of
me and my tech geeks. Then when you are ready to have the engagements,
everything would be handed over with the likes of Chelsea who actually know
how to run those engagements with you and the participating community.
So, look at it this way, I have a data science department, a modeling department, a
computer science department and so on, and all of them will be perfectly happy to
speak and I think vice versa with your various departments and the
administration. Once you run Decision Theater engagements, you deal with
Chelsea because she has been running those engagements on the island for almost
half a year now and she knows how to do those kinds of things. And then it's a
different dynamic. But then the feedback comes back to us, and we adjust, we
add additional data layers, we refine them all and things like that.
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Vote on Comm. 989
September 3, 2024
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. That's really helpful. I can, just off the top of
my head, think of a number of different topics, including our Department of
Water Supply, getting our mapping of all of our TMKs (Tax Map Key), and
allocated water credits, versus the number of wells that we have and aquifers and
those kinds of things, having those mapped as well as obviously wastewater,
short-term vacation rentals, just a lot of the things that we've been a little behind
as a county for a number of decades.
So, technologies like this could provide an opportunity to catch us up pretty
quickly. So, thank you for your time and bringing this forward, Council Member
Kimball, as another option that we as a Council now know more about, and the
Mayor and his directors also know more about as well. So, as we navigate
ourselves continuing into the future, we can make better decisions on the best
information possible. So, we thank you for being here today.
MR. LAUBICHLER: Thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Alright. All those in favor of closing file on
Communication 989 please say "aye."
The motion to close file on Comm. 989 was carried by the
Filed following voice vote:
Ayes. Committee Members Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
and Chair Villegas — 6.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Evans, Galimba,
Lee Loy — 3.
Excused: None.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you one more time. Have a wonderful day. Yeah, but
we can all meet with you separately and not have Sunshine law violations, so
that's an option too.
MR. LAUBICHLER: Okay.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business.
of Business:
COMMUNI- The Acting Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
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September 3, 2024
Comm. 988: FISCAL YEAR 2023-2024 AFFORDABLE HOUSING PRODUCTION
PROGRAM ANNUAL REPORT
From Housing Administrator Susan K. Kunz, dated August 2, 2024, pursuant to
Section 2-2 of the Affordable Housing Production Program Administrative Rules.
Motion to Close File: Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 988.
Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Alright. Aloha, Administrator Kunz. This time, I'll go ahead
and invite you up to the table and you can share with us the annual report you
brought for us today.
(Note: At this time, Housing Administrator Susan K. Kunz came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. KUNZ: Good afternoon, my name is Susan Kunz, I'm the Housing
Administrator for the Office of Housing and Community Development (OHCD).
So, I come before the committee today to follow-up on the annual plan report that
we provided you last year. This is regarding our new grant fund called the
Affordable Housing Production fund. Last year, we provided you with an outline
of projects that we had selected utilizing about $17 million worth of Affordable
Housing Production fund.
Let me just take you back there really quickly. Last year's award or RFP
(Request for Proposal) for $17 million was an accumulation of two years. The
first year that we were awarded funds, we spent working on administrative rules,
and that was in fiscal year '22-`23. In '23-`24, we did an RFP for the
accumulation of the two years, which was $17 million.
So, what we're presenting to you today is our reporting back on how we did on
those awarding of funds. So, we provided you with a hard copy of the annual
report, and I'll just take you through it really quickly. Before I go any further, so
I don't forget, I really want to present to you or introduce to you my staff, who
really was critical in doing all of this work. So, Linda Bui, is our housing
specialist, who really has done majority of the work on all of this. And of course,
everybody knows Royce Shiroma, who is the grants division manager. So, I
really want to thank them for their work on this. I'm being reminded that we do
have two of our developers on Zoom today. So, I believe it's Jeremy McComber
from the Hawaii Island Community Development Corporation (HICDC) and
Reyn Kimura from Stanford Carr's group. So, if you have any questions for
them, we can call on them.
So, there were a total of seven projects that we awarded for a total of
$17,324,559.46. I told Royce today, I said that's such an ugly number, can we
not do—? Anyway, so the report does walk you through our progress on all of
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September 3, 2024
those projects. I don't want to read through the whole thing, but do you want me
to highlight the characteristics of each of the projects?
CHR. VILLEGAS: Sure, if you'd like.
MS. KUNZ: Okay. So, the first project that's on the list is Na Hale Makoa. We
awarded $2 million on that project for 140 units that is going to be ranging from
30 percent AMI (Average Median Income) to 120 percent AMI. We also
awarded to Manago Mauo, which the developer was MHK, $5,500,000 for the
planned 72 units. I will tell you right now that project has been cancelled so
you'll see it as we progress through this report.
We had two land trust awards, one was for Pa Ali`i Street, single-family home for
$300,000 and the other was for University Heights, $300,000.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Point of information, Chair.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Sure.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: When looking at the districts here, that's the
actual Council Districts or those are—?
MS. KUNZ: The actual Council Districts.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council District. Thank you.
MS. KUNZ: Ho`omalu at Waikoloa, $3 million for 229 units; Kamakoa Nui
Workforce Housing, $5,400,000 for 643 units; Hale Ola O Mohouli, $2 million
for 90 units, totaling your seven projects. The map on page 2 of the report just
shows where those projects are located island -wide. From page 3 it kind of goes
into a little more detail about the status of each of those projects. So again, and I
can tell you that the report here takes you through June 30, 2024. So obviously,
in the last two months, there has been even more progress.
So, I'll tell you in the report for example, you see Na Hale Makoa, the grant
agreement is still in progress, but I can update you on that; the grant agreement
has been executed on that particular project. I believe the blessing for that is
coming up very shortly, maybe within three weeks or so but before the end of the
month.
As I said earlier, the Manago Mauo project has been cancelled. The two land
trust projects are already completed, and funds are obligated, permits are already
done, and I think we're going to see completion of those projects by next January.
Ho`omalu at Waikoloa, that project's grant agreement is still pending because my
understanding is the developer is pursuing additional funding on this project.
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September 3, 2024
Kamakoa Nui grant agreement is still in progress, and you know that one is an in-
house OHCD project. Hale Ola O Mohouli is also pending, same like the
Waikoloa project because there's additional funding that they're pursuing on that.
On the bottom of that page, we also give you a little highlight of the
administrative funds that we're utilizing to administer this program. So, you can
see that although the Admin Rules allows us to take up to 10 percent of the total
award for admin costs, we have utilized 3.75 percent of the total and actually,
only utilized a portion of it, not all of it. I'm going to stop at this time to see if
there are any questions.
CHR. VILLBGAS: Thank you, Administrator Kunz. Opening it Lip to the
Council for any questions. Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for being here all of you, and
for working on this; very important. I remember, and I could be wrong but
correct me if I'm wrong, that the Hale Ola O Mohouli was a partial funding that
you did for that project because you basically ran out of your funding. Now that
the Manago Hotel one isn't happening, are you going to be able to award more
money for that project?
MS. KUNZ: I'm going to ask Royce to come up.
(Note: At this time, Housing Community Development Specialist Royce
Shiroma came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. SHIROMA: Royce Shiroma from the Office of Housing and Community
Development. We actually had a new RFP done or process start, and they have
come in for additional funding. It may not be a balance of what they were doing
requesting from last fiscal year, but they have added numerous other items from
their proposal that I cannot really disclose now.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, so it's not a straightforward just funding what they had
previously asked for.
MR. SHIROMA: Yes.
MS. KAGIWADA: So, you're going to hold off and wait to see what their entire
ask is and then see what you feel like you would want done?
MR. SHIROMA: How we want to award, yes.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Alright, thanks for that. Then the other question I
have, and I guess this one is for Susan, I guess. It says the pending funding
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September 3, 2024
decision from HHFDC (Hawai`i Housing Finance and Development Corporation)
was going to be July/August 2024. Do you know anything about that?
MS. KUNZ: Yeah, their award process this year seems to be a little different
from what I've seen in the past. Normally, in around July or August, they would
do a full analysis like we do and make an award of their total LIHTC (Low
Income Housing Tax Credit) funds, but they did not do that this year. They've
already come out with a couple of awards that we've been working with projects
on; Ho`omalu, Mohouli, are some of those that we have not heard about yet. But
what I do understand is that they're not finished with their total award for the
year. So, it seems like they're doing it in segments a bit. So no, we were
anticipating that timing, but we're not seeing it there.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay.
MS. KUNZ: Yeah.
MS. KAGIWADA: Alright, thanks for that.
MS. KUNZ: I should also say that two developers are on Zoom today so I don't
know if they might have updated information or not.
MS. KAGIWADA: Oh yeah. Who did you say was here from HICDC?
MS. KUNZ: HICDC, Jeremy McComber.
(Note: At this time, Jeremy McComber, Chief of Operations for Hawaii
Island Community Development Corporation came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MR. MCCOMBER: Hello.
MS. KAGIWADA: Hi. Aloha. How are you?
MR. MCCOMBER: Good.
MS. KAGIWADA: Good. I was just asking a little bit more about the project
you guys have been working on because we had anticipated, I think, that we
might have a little bit more information by this time, and just wondering if you
had any more information, if you were listening.
MR. MCCOMBER: Not really other than it seems like we will have favorable
results to the tune of whether or not it's the total amount of what we've requested,
I don't know. Susan's correct in that the process is a little bit different this year.
There's actually quite a number of new staff so we're not familiar with all of them
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September 3, 2024
and the application process itself was a lot different. So, we're not really sure yet,
other than to hear that we're on a favorable track so to speak.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay well, we'll just keep our fingers crossed then. Thank
you and thanks for being here today. I think that's good for me right now. Thank
you, Chair, and thank you to OHCD.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Council Member
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Susan. Thank
you for introducing your department. On the map, it shows `Ainaloa, but I don't
see a project for them. I know we just had a ground -breaking ceremony for the
`Ainaloa housing. I think it's through HICDC, I may be incorrect. Is that coming
in the next report?
MS. KUNZ: I'm sorry, so, you're not seeing it on the map, that's why you're
asking?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well, I see the line directed towards
`Ainaloa but I'm also seeing no box. There's also a line directed to Hawaiian
Paradise Park. The only things that have lines on there are projects, those two
have lines but no projects. So, I'm just wondering because I know there was a
project that is going to happen in `Ainaloa; happened, happening.
MS. KUNZ: Oh, I see.
(Note: At this time, Housing Community Development Specialist Royce
Shiroma came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. SHIROMA: Royce Shiroma, Office of Housing. Those two basically is just
a pointer, a locater of those areas. There was no project at Hawaiian Paradise
Park nor `Ainaloa.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, we have a —there is something going
on through —
MR. SHIROMA: The self-help housing, HICDC, yeah, that wasn't funded by our
program.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, got it.
MR. SHIROMA: Thank you.
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September 3, 2024
MR. KANEALI'l-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. I was just putting all of the
pieces together, but incorrectly it sounds like. Okay. I appreciate the report.
MS. KLNZ: Good catch, thank you.
MR. KANEALI'l-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much for being here.
HR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Chair. This is the first report for the Affordable
Housing Production fund, yeah?
MS. KLTNZ: Yes.
MR. INABA: Okay. With that, I know similar to the credits and to the affordable
housing availability reports, we try to improve and make sure it's as clear as
possible. Just wondering in future reports, we have two different tables here and
it's difficult to try and go back and forth between where maybe we could just
have additional columns so that —
MS. KLJNZ: With one table.
MR. INABA: Yes, that helps us to kind of track easier. Then looking at the rules
that you have set forth, some of these at the time you folks had submitted this
report, the Manago project had already not been or had fallen through. So, just
wondering if we can maybe get the things that are actually happening because
that's what I believe the intention of the report is based on the language in your
Administrative Rules, but you're reporting on things here. If you just look at this
page, it looks like we added 72—
MS. KLTNZ: Which page number are you on?
MR. INABA: Page 1. It would appear just by looking at page I that 72 units
were added, but if you go later in the report, then you'll uncover that project was
cancelled. So, it might be more beneficial and more representative of what's been
accomplished, not to include things like that because technically, funds weren't
expended. And based on the Administrative Rules, we're reporting to Council on
the expenditures and accomplishments. That was neither.
MS. KUNZ: Got it.
MR. INABA: Then lastly, on page 3 at the bottom just as an educational
opportunity for us to understand, administratively, you folks can use up to
10 percent of the appropriation for a fiscal year. How is it working in terms of
you folks are giving out funds, what is the 10 percent based on for that fiscal
year?
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September 3, 2024
MS. KUNZ: The 10 percent is based on the budgeted amount for that fiscal year.
So, that's what we would —well, it's not necessarily what we would hold for
admin. We work through a budget and see how much we need. You can see
from the period here that we're presenting, we only needed only 3.75 percent of
the funds, and we didn't even use it all. So, we budgeted what was allocated here
and you can see what was spent and what was left over.
So, the next round is going to be the same thing. What was in the budget for
fiscal year '24-'25 was $9 million and change. I don't know what that total
amount was right off the top of my head, but it wouldn't have exceeded
10 percent, and then we would report back to you what that budgeted amount was
and what we ended up spending.
MR. INABA: Got it. Okay, perfect. Thank you. I think the project -by -project
summaries are great and helpful for us to get that —
MS. KUNZ: But maybe just summarizing the activity on one spreadsheet.
MR. INABA: Yeah, because I think when we look at those other reports there are
a lot of columns so we can make sense easier than trying to flip back and forth.
And again, just making sure we're getting things that were actually expended and
accomplished. Thank you so much to the team for all the work that you folks are
doing and the progress we're making. Chair, I yield.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. Council Member
Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. I just had one quick question. Did we use any of
the Manago money, the $5.5 million?
MS. KUNZ: No.
MS. KIMBALL: So, none of that was used for environmental assessment?
MS. KUNZ: Not in that fiscal year.
MS. KIMBALL: In the previous?
MS. KUNZ: No.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay.
MS. KUNZ: So, remember this allocation of funds was for the first two years.
The $5.5 (million) basically never got obligated. So, they got put into the pot of
the next round of funding. So, we're right in the middle of —we already are
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September 3, 2024
reviewing applications now. We should be coming back to the Council very
shortly for an appropriation of funds and an annual plan or a listing of projects
that we're going to be recommending.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great. I would disagree a little bit with my colleague in
the sense that I would actually like to see projects like Manago on the sheet, but
maybe some of the columns not included like the number of units or the amount
expended because the amount wasn't expended, and the units will not be created.
So, not including them in the summary but maybe just including them in the list
somehow signaling more overtly. I mean I saw there was a little asterisk next to
it. But I do think that —I mean hopefully, that's rare, right, where we assign
something and it doesn't actually get used, but I actually think that's informative.
MS. KUNZ: I think we can talk through how to label the columns properly so
that you guys can get all of the information, but I like being able to present to you
what was awarded so you'll know the full scope of the projects. But the
additional columns that Council Member Inaba is suggesting would show the
actual status or the outcome so you could see that. I think we can work out
something to give you everything you need, yeah.
MS. KIMBALL: Alright, thank you. That's all I had.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Great. Thank you, Council Member Kimball. Anyone else?
Alright.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thanks. Just one more thing. So, just a clarification. So, the
money that was originally slotted to be for the Manago Hotel and this remaining
money from administration you didn't use, are those part of the $9 million plus or
is it the $9 million plus this will be added to that?
MS. KiJNZ: So, the amount that was budgeted for fiscal year '24-'25 plus the
$5.5 (million) plus whatever was left over from our admin is going to get
calculated into the next round of funding.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Great. Okay, so that's going to be in addition to that
$9 (million) plus?
MS. KLNZ: Yes.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you so much. I yield.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Great, thank you so much. Alright, just quickly to wrap it up.
Really a lot of people were so bummed about the Manago Hotel project falling
through. Thank you for taking all the constructive criticism on presentation but
this is very helpful. I just have a quick question about the Ho`omalu at Waikoloa,
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September 3, 2024
and it might have been just my naivete, but I didn't realize that the county was
going to be providing funding for this affordable housing project. This was kind
of tied to their request for a zoning change and approval to build 1,100 more
timeshare units. And then they were going to build this workforce housing
project to kind of sweeten the sour for that. So, I just was wondering how and
what the parameters or how the agreement for county funds of $3 million to be
allocated for this project. It all facilitates or comes together or was that part of the
prior agreement?
MS. KUNZ: Do you think that it might help to hear from the developer?
CHR. VILLEGAS: Yeah, if they're here.
MS. KUNZ: Reyn is on Zoom.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Alright. Sorry, I keep forgetting because they're not up
there.
(Note: At this time, Reyn Kimura of Stanford Carr Development came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. KIMURA: Hi, my name is Reyn Kimura, I'm with Stanford Carr
Development, the developer of Ho`omalu at Waikoloa LP. Sorry, could you
repeat your question? I just want to make sure I have I guess the question
understood properly.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Sure. I just was curious, it was my understanding when we
passed the legislation and approval for this project, it was not directly tied but it
was closely associated with Waikoloa Lands ask for a change of zone for half of
their golf course in order to build 1,100 timeshare units. But this was another part
of Waikoloa Lands' project was to build this affordable housing workforce
component for those who live and work, not necessarily live, but work in that
area. But I don't remember a part of that being that $3 million of county funding
was going to be contributed to the project.
MR. KIMURA: Yes, and I apologize this may predate my participation in this
project, but the affordable housing production program application, this was —we
applied to this program after the development contract, or the development
agreement was entered into with Waikoloa Development Company.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay. It's what it is. Okay. It's good for me to know
because this might be the norm of the process but just to have a better
understanding of where —I know they get federal funding and they'll get 201 H,
and they'll get tax subsidies and all of those different things. I just supposed I
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September 3, 2024
was just a little surprised that they would then get funding from our affordable
housing pot.
MS. KUNZ: To do the project.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Yeah.
MS. KUNZ: You know, there's a provision in the Admin Rules where we are
not —projects that have an affordable housing agreement, is that what you are
talking about? It doesn't qualify for this fund. Is that what you are talking about?
So, they cannot use these funds to build affordable housing that is a part of an
agreement with the county. Is that what you're concerned about?
CHR. VILLEGAS: I'm not sure. Sorry.
MS. KUNZ: The county cannot fund projects that have an affordable housing
agreement.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay.
MS. KUNZ: That have an affordable housing requirement.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay, yes.
MS. KUNZ: is that what you're talking about?
CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes, that makes sense, but no, this isn't that. This is all
workforce housing. This is 100 percent, that whole project is, yeah? Council
Member Inaba, did you have something to add?
MR. INABA: I think you're onto it, Administrator Kunz. So, yes, can you share
what you're going to?
MS. KUNZ: Yeah, so my question to the staff is making sure that the Hoomalu
project is not an affordable housing project that is meeting the requirement of
another rezoned project. And my understanding is that Waikoloa Land, which is
the project that spurred this Ho'omalu project, right, this had already met its
affordable housing requirement by conveying the land, that Kamakoa Nui, to the
county.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes, you're correct there.
MS. KUNZ: Right'?
CHR. VILLEGAS: You're correct. They were separate projects.
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September 3, 2024
MS. KUNZ: Yeah, so that's why, I believe that the Office of Housing felt that it
would be not in violation of our Admin Rules to provide funding for this project.
But I think that's what your concern is.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Yeah, you nailed it on there and I just was learning the
process that Stanford Carr can come back then and look at any and all pots of
money available to help fund the project itself. But it was not there. They did not
have an affordable housing requirement based on the zoning change for those
other timeshare units because of the already large, I think it was 300 acres,
correct, that was associated with Waikoloa Land from decades prior to fulfill their
affordable housing. Okay. I'm going to yield for a second and hand it over to
you.
MR. INABA: Just understanding that they had previously fulfilled their
requirement. It was a condition of their change of zone to produce affordable
housing units. So, there was an agreement, right?
MS. KUNZ: Yes.
MR. INABA: Okay. So, perhaps we can just circle back with Corporation
Counsel because I had some questions just regarding the use of this funds even
with 201 H when we're granting exemptions already and being mindful.
Obviously, we want to support affordable housing development, but also be
mindful of potential double dipping or representation of this, but then we're going
to come back to you after and ask for money. Obviously, it comes through us to
approve grants over $25,000 but oftentimes, it comes in a package of numerous
grant applications that you folks are forwarding for approval. So, I think we just
need to have a closer eye on that as Corporation Counsel reviews these
applications and these awards for housing production. I don't think you were off
base. There were conditions that we worked hard to include. Was it a
requirement? No, but it was a commitment and a condition of. Thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. Thank you for the
validation that I'm not losing my menopausal mind. Some statistics are still
sticking in there. Thank you for the report, and the maps are very helpful for us to
see and which districts they were in, and we'll look forward to continued progress
on all of these projects and taking a look at that because as you know better than
anyone, Office of Housing, everything with the credits and all that, there's always
going to be eyes watching. So, we want to make sure that we close any loopholes
and remove any potential opportunity for being viewed as nepotism or incestuous
funding or any of that kind of stuff, and we get where we need to go with the least
bumps and bruises. Alright. If that's it from everyone today, all those in favor of
closing file on Communication 988 please say "aye."
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Vote on Comm. 988: The motion to close file on Comm. 988 was carried by the
(Filed) following voice vote:
Ayes. Committee Members Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kdneali'i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
and Chair Villegas — 6.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Evans, Galimba,
Lee Loy — 3.
Excused: None.
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 4:58 p.m. Chair Villegas adjourned the meeting.
MENT:
Approved:
d — Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Cpfair
Communications, Reports,
and Council Oversight Committee
RV/jm
(Date)
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