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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CRCOC 2024/10/01 (2022-2024)Committee on Communications, Reports, and Council Oversight 35111 Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii October 1, 2024 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Communications, Reports, and ORDER: Council Oversight was called to order at 4:17 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Vice Chair Ms. Cindy Evans, Member Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Absent & Excused: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 322.5: _QUARTERLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING REPORT: APRIL 1 — JUNE 30, 2024 From Housing Administrator Susan K. Kunz, dated August 29, 2024, transmitting the above report pursuant to Section I I -19 of the Hawaii County Code. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kimball moved to close file on Comm. 322.5. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR. VILLEGAS: With that, we're going to Zoom, and I see Administrator Kunz there for us. Take it away, Administrator Kunz. CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 (Note: At this time, Housing Administrator Susan K. Kunz came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. KUNZ: Hi, good afternoon, Chair Villegas and members of the Communications, Reports, and Council Oversight Committee. I am today giving you our quarterly report, OHCD's (Office of Housing and Community Development) quarterly report for the period April 1, 2024, to June 30, 2024. For this period, I don't have any activity to report. You can see that there were no new units being added, whether for sale or for rent, developed, conveyed. There were no additional housing credits that were issued or transferred. There were no changes to our affordable housing inventory list for this period as well, but I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Administrator Kunz. Anyone comments or questions from the Council? Council Member Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. Just a quick question, Susan. Do you folks track all non -affordable housing starts at all? MS. KUNZ: No. MS. GALIMBA: Not at all? MS. KUNZ: No. MS. GALIMBA: Okay, thank you. MS. KUNZ: Okay. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Administrator? So, we don't count things like the Salvation Army cot thing because it's not in space that we own and manage? Is that why? That would not be as shelter beds? MS. KUNZ: Yeah, you know, that's a good question. And those are, you know, their shelter cot sleeping, overnight cot sleeping, is not even like it's a housing unit. So, what we've been recording would be, in the way of homelessness, would be shelter units. MS. KAGIWADA: I just realized that it didn't open until after this time period. So, you're still good, just get it in the next report. MS. KUNZ: Okay, so maybe I do need to consider if that's something that we would add on to an inventory list. Let me give that some thought. Page 2 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. Appreciate that. MS. KUNZ: Okay, thanks for bringing it to my attention. MS. KAGIWADA: Of course. I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Hi, Susan. MS. KUNZ: Hi. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How are you doing? MS. KUNZ: Good. I'm doing good. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's wonderful. What did you say, you've been better? MS. KUNZ: Did I say that? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, did you just say that? MS. KUNZ: No. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, good. MS. KUNZ: I'm totally good. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I have a question for you. So, I'm looking over the report, is there a way for us to quantify how many units we've made, created, built, in the past four years? MS. KUNZ: You know, the dashboard that we recently went live with would account for any of the that. As I'm thinking through your question, everything that's on this inventory list, the affordable housing inventory list, would include any of the activity that happened within the last four years actually. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But not specifically what happened in the last four years, yeah, because some of these are existing already, correct? MS. KUNZ: Yes, MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I'd be interested to know that number. Page 3 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 MS. KUNZ: Okay. You mean, so like this — MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If it's something you can do without spending too many hours. MS. KUNZ: Yeah. So, I mean we could look on the dashboard for sure and be able to pull some of those numbers, but if you want me to give you some totals, I could do that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, if you get a chance. MS. KUNZ: Sure. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Hello, Director Kunz, Council Member Evans here. My question is, so, there was no action on the status report of developers and possession of these excess credits. So, how long does it take if there is a developer that needs to have affordable housing, and they decide they want to go and purchase some —does it take a while for you to know that the developer is doing that? Or is this only when —I guess what I'm getting at is will you know if someone's working on an affordable housing project and pursuing the use of these excess credits? Will they tell you that when they come in to say they want to do an affordable housing? Or you just wait until —I mean how do you know? MS. KUNZ: How do I know? MS. EVANS: Yes. MS. KUNZ: So, the housing developers would either, through the Planning Department or by direct contact with us, would be working either —especially if they want to utilize tools like the 201h or if they say, for example, trigger Chapter I 1 by doing some type of rezone, would have to be working directly with my office on a project. Through that process, they would learn what their affordable requirement would be for that project. At that time, they would determine whether or not they are going to meet that requirement by building it on -site or any of the options that are listed in Chapter 11. And certainly, utilizing credits is still currently one of the options. They would have to go through a process with us to detennine what is available, who has them available, are they within the mile range that it was developed or generated. So many criteria would need to be determined. We would have to certify that the credits that they're looking at are actual credits that we would Page 4 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 recognize and then do a process for the transfer. So, in any way, they would have to come through the Housing Office in order to start that process. MS. EVANS: Thank you for that information, I think that's informative. I looked at it and I went, "Oh, I guess people aren't building." I'm not seeing any movement on these credits. If we saw a movement on the credits, that means people are building. So, anyway, I'm hopeful that — MS. KUNZ: I mean but there are projects that don't use that option. So, it doesn't necessarily mean because there is no movement on the credits on this report that there isn't housing production. MS. EVANS: Okay, thank you. Thank you, I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. I just want to thank your office, Administrator Kunz, for this report especially with the live version on the dashboard now. We have that live access to data, but to have a snapshot on a quarterly basis. You know me, I'm quick to point out the reports I don't like, but I think we've landed on a really good place with the formatting of this report. So, just want to thank you and your team for putting this together. MS. KUNZ: Great. Thank you so much. Thank you. MR. INABA: Chair, I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. With that, just a quick wrap up. Personally, and professionally, I'm glad to see that none of the affordable housing credits have been used because I would prefer that developers actually build the affordable housing that our community needs so desperately. Those affordable housing credits are quite —it's kind of scary how much money they represent as far as value versus however many homes we could utilize. So, thanks for pointing that out, Council Member Evans, I appreciate that. I don't think I have any other questions. Thank you, Administrator Kunz, for also streamlining and keeping —this report has become —it's the same each time so we know which appendix represents which information, so it makes it much easier to go through it and be familiar with and automatically see any changes. MS. KUNZ: Great. Good. CHR. VILLEGAS: Alright, all those in favor of closing file on Communication 322.2 please say "aye." Page 5 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 Vote on Comm. 322.5: The motion to close file on Comm. 322.5 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, and Chair Villegas — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Kierkiewicz and Lee Loy — 2. Excused: None, Comm. 1058: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE AND ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY REGARDING THE RIDGE -TO -REEF DECISION SUPPORT TOOLS From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated September 16, 2024. ; and Comm. 1058.1: From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated September 23, 2024, transmitting a slide deck from the U.S. Forest Service and Arizona State University. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kimball moved to close file on Comm. 1058. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR. VILLEGAS: Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Alright. Thank you, Chair. You guys recall about a year ago we had Ms. McGuire join us along with Dr. Christian Giardina in the back there and give us an introduction to the decision support tools that they were working on for our island. Since we had the presentation by the Decision Theater a couple of years ago and they've made some pretty significant progress on the build -out of this tool, I wanted to have them come back in and give you an update on the status of the different tools that they're working on. I think it's going to be easiest if I just pass it over to Gina right now. We have a whole bunch of people visiting us that are part of this project. So, she'll do the introductions and take us through the slideshow. It's all yours, Gina. (Note: At this time, Postdoctoral Ecologist at Arizona State University Gina McGuire came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. MCGUIRE: Aloha nui, I'm so stoked and humbled to be back with you guys. Also, I feel like it's an exciting day to be here, so thank you for having us. Just a brief background, I'm from Puna, born and raised in Mountain View. My parents are from Hawaiian Beaches down lower Puna area. Super stoked to be here and represent. Page 6 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 (Note: At this time, Postdoctoral Ecologist at Arizona State University Gina McGuire came forward and provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 1058.1.) CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you so much. Huge points for getting through that deck with such efficiency and detail and enthusiasm. Nailed it. Opening it up to any questions from Council Members. Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: Yeah, thank you. I do have a lot. I think the bigger question for me is what would you like to hear from us? Clearly, I've been to Phoenix, Arizona, to your decision room, your decision tree modeling. I've seen it, it's wonderful. I love the data sets that you create that helps decision makers as you layer the different data. I think that's really good. My bigger question is what would you want from us, but for me personally, I want to know how you see artificial intelligence (AI) and Al as you develop these spatial layer data sets, which there are some that aren't here that I would advise you to add. If you had all those and you've got them all layered and find ways of scoring or the logic connection of one to the other and you come up with matrices, I don't know how you do it, but if you eventually get to that Al space to where you input this and you have that logic decision matrix modeling numbers and all that, that you see this is kind of where you're —is that kind of where you're headed? I guess, where are you going with this I guess this is my bigger question. (Note: At this time, Research Ecologist Paul Hessburg came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. HESSBURG: Great question, Ms. Evans. Paul Hessburg, this is my team here. Our lab has specialized for decades in doing decision models of this consort. The question is brilliant. The thing that's new is that the machine learning and Al algorithms have been round for 40 years. What's changed is computing power. So, we've been doing these things for a very long time. So, we're going to actually be developing these kinds of machine learning models for some of the parts of the model that go into it. That will allow us to actually detect really cool patterns and then reflect them back to decision makers; this is what we learned when we consider these data layers together and this particular response. MS. EVANS: I have more, but I'll pass it on. I'll come back. Page 7 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay, Council Member Evans. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm glad you asked because you said you're from Puna but there was no Puna slide deck at all. So, I was like wait, did I miss something? So, Puna, yes, and the reasons being is it's developing rapidly, density is increasing, and there's a lot of —I'm sorry, we have agricultural subdivisions that were created decades ago even before statehood. As those are clear cut by three acre by three acre by three acre lots, you're going to see a tremendous amount of forest go and a lot of invasives takeover. So, reasons being, one, we're not in the slide deck; two, we're the last affordable place to build probably in the State of Hawaii, and you're going to see a tremendous amount of infill there. That's a perfect place to get in front of the issue before it's gone because that really is a beautifiil native forest that still exists. It hasn't been touched in a long time. So, my other notes, did you consider wind-blown sediment in the Kohala areas versus stream and water? (Note: At this time, Hydrogeologist Jasper Oshun came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. OSHUN: Thanks for the question. Yes, so I know that is, from anecdotal evidence, that there can be a lot of wind-blown sediment that arrives on the reef. My colleagues that I cited briefly at the USGS (United States Geological Survey) were trying to measure that and they didn't measure much. So, I'm aware that it could potentially be an issue, but I don't know what the magnitude of wind-blown sediment is compared to the fluvial transport sediment. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I just wanted to ask. I have family who lives in Kawaihae in the Kailapa Hawaiian Homesteads. On a windy day, you're eating dirt, and if you go to Hapuna Beach, on a windy day, you're eating sand, you're getting sandblasted. So, I couldn't help but ask, and I know you guys are smart, smarter than I am. MR. OSHUN: Sounds like we should be measuring it. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Might be good to took at if you haven't already. Thank you. The project as a whole seems like would benefit from tying it with the `Aina Aloha Economic values or economic Futures that we have. If you haven't already, I think those two might go hand in hand or at least tie in together in some of these different areas. That would be an interesting place to look to see if it ties in. Page 8 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 Then for ahupua`a, my `ohana that lives in Kailapa, that is one of the few existing mauka to makai ahupua`as that still exists, and it's entirely owned by DHHL (Department of Hawaiian Home Lands). That is a tremendous place to look for one if you haven't already. Then the food forest is interesting because I have a guy in my district, Gary, you might know him, he wants to take roads and turn them into food production. There are interesting ideas a lot involved in that, but he does have, I think it's 60 miles of private roadway that he has purchased for $0 because nobody wants them because they are old bust up roads that were created in the subdivision process. The organizations that created them went defunct and so now they're mainly the responsibility of the private landowners. So, you have a tremendous amount of roadways that we all deal with on a regular basis that the county doesn't want, that the state doesn't want, that may tie into your food forest idea. MS. MCGUIRE: What's the name of the guy, Gary? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Gary Rosenberg. He's a character. I'll say it on the record. He's a character but he's driven, and he wants this to be the thing that we do; he wants us to focus on agriculture. He wants us to grow our own food and there's nothing wrong with that. It's a tremendous idea but growing it on our roadways is an interesting thing. But you brought it up, so I thought I'd mention it. MS. MCGUIRE: Awesome, thank you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, look forward to seeing something on Puna. MS. MCGUIRE: I would love that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. MS. MCGUIRE: Is the development model, like a future development model, would that be something of value for Puna? MR. KANEALI`1-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, what is the question? MS. MCGUIRE: The development model that's being put together, it was like that hot spot map of like where it's projected to grow to. Would that be — Page 9 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm thinking yes, but I don't think I'm understanding the question perfectly, but I —it's being developed. MS. MCGUIRE: You guys are developing, or we are developing? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But people in general are going to develop. MS. MCGUIRE: I'm sorry, thinking of developing. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Development, actually hard to develop in Puna because there's no county water, there's no county sewer, so massive development isn't happening, but lot by lot by lot. This Hawaiian acres is 4,096 three -acre lots. That's a lot of land. That's one subdivision of many. So, just trying to get ahead of the curve but there has actually been some interest from the community to figure out how to preserve whatever forest we can going into the future. And as I look at our —knowing Kaloko, the requirement to preserve the drip forest because of what it does for the environment or as in Puna, we don't have that. And it would actually offer a tremendous ability for us to preserve both our rainfall and our native forest and protect from over -clearing, over development. It would be a very usefill tool. MS. MCGUIRE: Awesome. Thank you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. So, I will try not to be offended that South Hilo was never even mentioned in anyway. But I'll just say I love the idea that you're going to be meeting with some other folks, that you are going to be meeting with Bethany Morrison with OSCER (Office of Sustainability, Climate, Equity and Resilience). I'm wondering if you're planning to meet with anybody in our Research and Development Department. MS. MCGUIRE: I think on Friday they might be coming with the Planning Department, but I've got to confrnn. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. I'm going to see if I can get one particular person, Elizabeth Dykstra, to join that, just because we did get a grant from the federal government to do a full -on Hilo Bay Watershed Plan. Really, it's going to be a community -based plan, but clearly, some of the tools that you have here would be very valuable, I think, for kind of rounding that out. Page 10 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 I know we were looking for more money for doing some of the testing and data gathering that is necessary and feeling like we didn't necessarily have as much money as we felt we needed for that end of things. But maybe because you have some of these tools already developed it might be a good fit. So, yeah, hope that I can connect you with Beth Dykstra and Bethany Morrison on this to just talk story about that. MS. MCGUIRE: Awesome. Thank you. We met with Bethany on Friday. MS. KAGIWADA: Oh. you already met with her? MS. MCGUIRE: It was really good. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. MS. MCGUIRE: Just Bethany and Kendra (Obermaier). MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, great. Thank you. MS. MCGUIRE: Thank you. MS. KAGIWADA: Alright. Aloha. CHR. VILLEGAS: Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: Okay, I think I'll start with a story. The story being is our Congressman Abercrombie, based on the local Hawaiian community saying Pelekane Bay was being destroyed. So, the sharks, the heiau was being covered up and the ability for them to fish there was going away. They were very upset. He gave money to NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration); I think maybe even the nature conservancy and they did a lot of work. The other thing he did is he got money for the watershed alliance, Mauna Kea Watershed, and the soil and conservation district. And all of a sudden, over a period of maybe six or eight years, they started planting trees, creating dams on the gulches and the streams to stop the brownouts going into the Pelekane Bay. It was amazing. I mean every month, they would have people out there, volunteers, and they were going up the streams just trying to bring the forest back. The biggest problem we had then was ungulates, the goats were denuding the whole entire side of the mountain. Page 11 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 So, a lot of money was spent on fencing, so all of a sudden, you had the fencing, you had the forest being replanted, you're having theirs stopping the water flowing at the rate it was. You could look up the mountain and start seeing it change color. Then all of a sudden, we had one of those 100-year floods or whatever. It was all wiped out. So, the trees had not grown to maturity and gotten their roots in the ground. The dams and the earthen dams and the things they put in were totally destroyed. Then you looked at Pelekane Bay and the plume went way out, and all those people and all that devotion of six or eight years was so disheartening. They gave up and they went away, and we don't have that right now. That's sad because there's not the will or the desire to kind of do it again. Why? Because we're concerned about the next 50 years, 75 years or 100 (year) flood that's going to wipe it out again. So, when you talk about the cultural aspect of it, I just wanted to share that story because they were pretty disheartened because they worked. Every month they were on that mountain, and they were devoted. So, I just wanted to share that story. MS. MCGUIRE: I really appreciate that. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Then the other thing is recently, there was a Native Hawaiian conference. I don't know if any of you attended; you would have enjoyed it; it was two weeks ago. For the cultural perspective of what Hawaiian community feels about their `aina and the land and the future of the land here. The big take away for me, which I don't see it as a layer, a suggestion for one of your layers, for them the big missing piece is water. Water means the amount of rainfall, the importance of above Waimea because I represent North Kohala, South Kohala, the discussion by the community there about looking above Waimea town and looking up at that forest reserve that's up at the top. And they say if you go into that forest reserve, which is kind of where the water comes down that really supports the farmers, that supports —because it's a huge farming community. But they say now when you go up there and you go in the forest, the `Ohi`a death has been harming the upper canopy, which is now harming the middle canopy and the lower canopy. They're really upset and they're worried about it. Then you get the pig fanners and the pig hunters that said the fencing of that forest reserve is a failure on their part. Why? Because they truly believe that the ecosystem —here's the other thing for you for layering. The ecosystem, so what has happened is the natural animals, be it the birds that poop seeds or the pigs that dig up the dirt so that seeds get down in the ground, and so there's this natural regeneration because the ecosystem was a very developed ecosystem. But because of what we're doing with Page 12 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 fencing and what we're doing removing pigs who actually contributed to the ecosystem, they are gone. It's like we've been messing with an ecosystem, and no one is evaluating the data; evaluating the data of how you change the ecosystem and the animals that were in the ecosystem, and you changed that; how does that affect your forest, for example, what's happening in the forest. This is kind of the local conversation of the local Hawaiians about the `aina and what they learned from their parents and how they see —that's their love and respect of the pig. Why? Because the pig put food on the table. Then the other thing about the alkaline ponds, I have another story to tell you. The alkaline ponds were a place that people would go to get shrimp. So, now when you go along to the coast to those ponds, what you're seeing is the shrimp are not thriving because of the nitrogen and the phosphorous from land development. It's creating this growth that is like covering with just this yucky green algae, whatever, and it's just killing off the shrimp. So, I guess what I'm thinking is there are indicators about the health. There are indicators that tell you what the health of your ahupua`a is. Some of those indicators right now are showing that you can actually compare one pond probably to another pond to another pond and see the indicators are the shrimp and the health of the shrimp that's in the pond. So, there are indicators just like —but some of it because of your capability of satellites and because you have tools to use, I mean these are people just on the ground walking on the ground and they're telling stories from what they see. But you see it at a much higher level because you can use your satellites and Google Earth or flying over with the airplanes. You're seeing something that they kind of know only because they go into the forest. The big thing that I heard at this conference is they kind of know the health of the —so the Hawaiians use the forest for their cultural practitioners. So, they go in the forest to gather the maile lei. I don't know, they gather things for their cultural practices and what they're telling me is that forest that's above Waimea, what you're looking at, Kohala, up there, that they're having a lot of problems with getting their cultural —whatever they're harvesting, they're noticing that it's going away. It's harder and harder to harvest what they need for their cultural practices. So, this is just if you want to talk folklore, people talking culturally, they're the ones that are telling us that something's going on. CHR. VILLEGAS; Thank you, Council Member Evans. Page 13 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 MS. MCGUIRE: I really appreciate that. CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. Just briefly, thanks very much for the models on South Kona, especially the groundwater and the plumes, that's very interesting to see visually. I guess it's kind of interesting seeing these three different areas and their different problems that are focused on and the questions they are asking looking at different kinds of vegetation or lack of vegetation or habitation or lack of habitation. There are all these tradeoffs that are implicit and that, so, what is the best use for these different areas. It may be what is best for one area is not best for another area. Or they may actually inform each other and how do we —there's a lot of data but there's also a lot more questions to be answered basically but thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay. So, I'm going toMr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Okay, come on guys, let's wrap it up. We can always meet with them and talk with them afterwards. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, and I'll save my questions on some of the specific content to another day. Thank you all for being here, it's nice to see some old friends. I think there are a couple of really important things I want to highlight. Speaking about the potential build -out scenarios that are proposed or the propensity to be developed. In thinking about the bill, I don't know if it was you, Cindy and Holeka, or if it was Ashley and Holeka who put forward about having a sense of what's happening in the area when we look at a rezoning project. Yeah, this is the kind of thing that I think would be very useful because we are so often making decisions about a property without having any contextual information, and whether it's about fire, it's about floodplains, thinking about another decision, it's about potential for run off. I think that looking at the kind of decisions that we need to make at this body, having that information is going to be pretty critical. The other thing that I would say is that with respect to the models and the modelling methods, thinking about a scenario with a piece of legislation I was working on last year actually at the state level, it actually ended up not passing because it was based on the data model. It had to do with the requirement to have denitrification in areas like Miloli`i that were more porous. So, the data model that we have for the soil types, the folks that created that data model said were uncomfortable with us using their model as the basis of legislation. So, as you guys are thinking about these model Page 14 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 buildouts, we need to be able to feel secure enough in the quality of those data models. We all know models are lies, right? Models are models, but to the point that if we were to, for example, require folks to make an economic decision that would require them to spend 10,000 more dollars in the system, denitrification, we need to be able to point to a model that's robust enough that we can legislate around that. So, in the interest of not making too many layers for us to explore all the potential options, I would highlight creating really robust layers that we could legislate around. The other thing, just looking at the decision model for South Kona, one of the things, this kind of ties into the last comment as far as decision -making and what our roles are in terms of justifying, again, taking the recent example about the denitrification and potential additional cost to homeowners, we need to be able to communicate that longer -term cost benefit analysis. So, if we say, hey, we're going to require you to pay 5,000-10,000 more (dollars) per installation of your wastewater treatment unit, but you have this somewhat quantifiable, and I —there's always been the debate about ecosystem resources. But whether or not we're talking about the coastal protections that happen from having a robust reef system; the fact that we would have fishery resources, whatever it is, when we're at a community meeting and we're saying we're going to pass this law that's going to charge you more, we've got to be able to say, on the flip side, these are the benefits for you and the community that are going to be coming forward. It doesn't always boil down to economics, but it often does. Finally, I'll conclude, if there's one thing that I've learned, and this is not to disparage anybody, it is hard for us in these positions of decision - making to truly walk down every alley and explore every potential decision outcome and alternative. It's just not humanly possible, and even though we're all brilliant up here, it's —where I'm going with that is simplicity is of the essence; boiling things down to really easily justifiable, understandable, decision -making is going to be prioritized over having every scenario examined. So, that comes with diagnosing, and I think further conversations may be more one-on-one conversations are needed to really say these are the key factors that we really need very good information about. The rest is nice to have. There's some need to have and there's some absolutely must have. So, anyway, thanks for being here. CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay, I'm going to wrap this up real quick. Okay. Did you already talk? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'll be quick. I didn't say thank you for coming in front of us two times now to bring us this information and to Page 15 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 try to work on a set of criteria that can help guide how we look at development and what we need to be thinking about for our future. I forgot to say that. It's like my ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) brain trying to figure out things that are important district wide, island -wide, things that I know and trying to word vomit that, as you put, I forgot to say thank you. So, thank you, appreciate your time and energy. This is a big project and I'm very supportive, and this is really neat. So, I just wanted to say that before I forget. Thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Perfect, and I share those sentiments. Sorry, I'm starting to just feel a little loopy at the end of the day here. I really appreciate your guys' report. Incredibly grateful for the work that you're doing. Also, really proud and it resonates really close to me that you are taking into consideration indigenously informed decisions and inclusion in the data there. I think it's so interesting how the western mindset we need to have seven million data points to prove something that an indigenous person would say, "Yeah, obviously." But sometimes that's a part of tying the need for data to economics because we sit here and we can hear all kinds of information, and we have all kinds of proof of what's happening with climate change and deforestation and water pollution, but does it change the decisions we make sitting here based on what we allow or don't allow to be done on that land or near that water or to those trees. So, that opportunity to hold us accountable, based on that data, we have a General Plan coming out which sounds fantastic based on all these value systems, but if there are no legal ramifications for us making decisions that do not authentically align with that value system, then it's just smoke and mirrors. Just a couple of things that came to me real fast. Capacity, we're on an island, how do we quantify and validate what we say we're at for capacity, and what does the island need as its own ecosystem to survive when it comes to enough forested space? When it comes to enough healthy and sacred, and untapped aquifers? When it comes to reef coral ecosystems, and what is the capacity of meddling in those systems? What level do we have to bring it back to for a resilient, regenerative future if this island was its own biome, its own microbiome? And then something Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder mentioned was the `Aina Aloha economic futures and a lot of the work that they're doing. I see these tetins, `aina and economy, which haven't always been really validly aligned, they're usually commodified. But aligning those things based on the principle and the wisdom of our host culture because I truly believe that the wisdom that resides there contains the solutions for Page 16 CRCOC-35 October 1, 2024 the challenges that we face. So, thank you for taking the scientific mind and incorporating it and aligning it with indigenously informed decisions. I feel like sometimes it does come down to, as Council Member Kimball said, the simplified. Does it do more hann than good? Period. It cannot be based on a linear economic standard. We need to return to circular economy. So, the work you guys are doing is really showing the effects of all the things that humans have done to this place over the last few hundred years. My belief is that through your help and your support that we, as legislators, can be held accountable to making better decisions and be informed so that we can make better decisions. Thank you for being here today; we appreciate you. My daughter is working with `Ako`ako`a Reef Restoration project; she's doing their social media. So, I have a little place in my heart for the work you guys do and I'm just so grateful that you're here. So, thank you, appreciate you guys. MS. KIMBALL: I think Paul maybe wanted to make a comment before we totally close this out. (Note: At this time, Research Ecologist Paul Hessburg came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR, VILLEGAS: Sure, go ahead, Paul. MR. HESSBURG: Thank you, with your perrnission. Some great questions were asked of us, and I'll start with Council Member Galimba. We probably didn't make the point well enough that the little graphic that Rachel was showing that had the sliders on it, we actually do a little math with you all to detennine what your values are and to rate them in a pair wise fashion related to other values. Out of that comes the ability to essentially reflect back to you what you said your values are. And if you see the results and you don't love them, you actually get to play with reweighting those sliders so you can gain such a tool to see whether or not, I didn't expect that outcome, I didn't love that outcome and so forth. So, I just wanted to reflect that back. It's part of what comes out of the decision model. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Thank you so much. All those in favor of closing file on Communication 1058 please say "aye." Page 17 CRCOC-35 Vote on Comm. 1058: Filed A T) TC)T TR N- MENT: October 1, 2024 The motion to close file on Comm. 1058 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, and Chair Villegas — 6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Inaba, Kierkiewicz, and Lee Loy — 3. Excused: None. There being no further business, at 5:33 p.m. Chair Villegas adjourned the meeting. Approved: Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair Communications, Reports, and Council Oversight Committee RV/jm NOV 2 0 2024 (Date) Page 18