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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN LAAC 2025/03/06 (2024-2026) DRAFT Committee on Legislative Approvals and Acquisitions 5th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii March 6, 2025 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Legislative Approvals and Acquisitions ORDER: was called to order at 9:00 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi, Vice Chair(came in"later) Mr. James E. Hustace, Member Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba,Member Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference from Kona; came in later) Absent& Excused: Mr. Matt:Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals;registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Joni Metzler: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in support. M. Kalani Souza: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and (representing Olohana Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), comment. Foundation, University of Hawaii National Disaster Preparedness Training Center (UH NDPTC), Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), National Science Foundation (NSF), and RVCC) LAAC-5 March 6,2025 Momi Naughton: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Cindy Evans: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Sharon Petrosky: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Kalani Flores: Bill 198 (Comm, 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Ceci Davenport: Bill 19 (Comm. 1015); and, Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015:52), in opposition. John Kuwano: Bill 1,9$ (Comm. 1015); and Bill 190,Draft (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Victor Fergerstrom: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2(Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Julie Stowell: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199,Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Sharon''O1son.- Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), comment. LaDorma Shirley: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Jan Espere: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Pua Case: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Ana Kahoopii: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Vanessa Lum: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Zethan Barros: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and (representing Olohana Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Foundation) Page 2 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 Mark Low: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. Ian Langevin: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015); and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in support. Chad Wiggins: Bill 198 (Comm. 1015) and Bill 199, Draft 2 (Comm. 1015.52), in opposition. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to'the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 198: AMENDS THE STATE LAND USE BOUNDARIES MAPS,,FOR THE (2022-2024) COUNTY OF HAWAI`I BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT CLASSIFICATION FROM THE AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT TO THE RURAL DISTRICT AT WAIMEA, SOUTH KOHALA;HAWAI`I, COVERED BY TAX MAP KEY: 6-4-024:027 Postponed: September 16, October 15, 2024, January 7,,and February 4, 2025 (Note: There is a motion by Council Member Kierkiewicz, seconded by Council Member Lee Loy, to recommend passage of Bill 198 on first reading.) CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you,Mr. Clerk. At this time I will invite the applicant, the applicant's' representative, and if the Planning Department has anything to say yau:don't have to go over the project again. Obviously, we have that from the first meeting but if there's anything you'd like to add before we begin our deliberations. (Note:, At this time, Attorney Katherine Garson with Carlsmith Ball LLP and Planning Consultant Daryn Arai came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. GARSON: Good morning. I'm Katherine Garson. I'm the attorney for the applicant. Jon Metzler is to my left and Daryn Arai, who is our Planning Consultant, is also present here today. So thank you for the opportunity to add a little bit more color. We did participate in the community meeting per your direction two nights ago. We were hoping that it would be more of a dialogue and that's what we were sort of led to believe the meeting was about, a lot of dialogue to talk about, you know, about the conditions, about what would be their—and it was just like this meeting, like the community did. The people who were there spoke in opposition of doing anything virtually on this property. So we did attend the meeting and it's very similar to what happened today. I mean, do you want to add anything? Page 3 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MR. ARAI: Good morning, Chair Kimball, Vice Chair Onishi, Members of the Committee. Daryn Arai. I reside in Hilo. The applicant has been unfortunately sometimes cast in some of the testimony as being insensitive or not aware of the concerns being expressed by the community. But the applicant is like fourth generation in this area. They are well aware of the concern and also of the needs of the community. And what you see before you are their personal attempt to do something that they think will benefit the community that they live in. The process that they have gone through is representative of decades worth of decisions by state, county and community leaders going back almost 60 years. For example, the state land use designation in this area extends about 850 feet further to the east of this property. As testifiers and as thePlanning Director's reports demonstrate, the project itself dues align with plans that have been put in place, decisions that have been made over decades that talks about not only preserving important agricultural lands and providing for housing opportunities, but also addressing other needs of the broader community, and that could include needs such as spaces for medical services and,care to the community. It's been along journey. This is not the firstattempt by the applicant to present a change of zone for these lands. There have been,a lot of tucks and tweaks made to the plan to get them to this point and a lot of it was based on sentiments and testimonies that were offered before the Planning Commission. So they were not insensitive to the concerns being expressed by the community. And the applicant is well ,aware of those concerns As mentioned; traffic,preservation of ag land. They're not deaf to it. But to place those concerns, those sometimes broader regional concerns solely on the shoulders of the applicant and the landowner is unfortunate. As I mentioned, they're part of this community for four generations. We don't Believe thatthey would do anything to harm the very community that they live in. And,they have mentioned their contributions to the broader communities from North Kohala all the way down to South Kohala and probably beyond. And I challenge people to question their contributions. And it's been significant from what I've heard. And this effort right now is no different. It is community based even though people may perceive it differently. But again, they wish to take this opportunity to also provide an opportunity for everyone and I hope the Council also see that opportunity as well. The Bills 198 and 199 as drafted does contain a host of conditions, and conditions that the applicant is more than willing to accept and comply with. These are controls set forth by the County to ensure that this project moves forward in a proper manner as expected by the rezoning should it be approved by the Council. So there are checks and balances. The rezoning is just the first step, the blessing as you will, for them to proceed forward with this project. But they will have to abide by those requirements and if they fail to do so, the project simply cannot Page 4 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 move forward and that was the case and point back in 1993 when the Council did approve the rezoning for the front portion of the property into the commercial district. The recession of that commercial zoning was not based on any inconsistencies with the plans set forth by the County. I was primarily due to noncompliance by the landowner to proceed with the development as represented. So I just want to make sure that perspective is made clear. Sorry. CHR. KIMBALL: I think that's good. We'll go ahead and start the conversation. Before we do,please let the record reflect that Council Member Onishi has joined us, as well as Council Member Villegas in Kona. Any comments on the bill before us? Council Member Hustace. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Thank youall for being here. I appreciate the voices from community. Tuesday's meeting and these past couple of days have been very tough for me, to be honest. I haven't really slept'all that much. Hearing from all sides of it and I hear you; I hear everyone on this issue, on the issues in our community. Tuesday's mneeting;was well attended. Idid, as promised, and I stepped forward to hold a community meeting as requested by community and by my colleagues here to kind,of have more conversation with community about this project and the process. We were scheduled for two opportunities in the community on Monday and Wednesday. That was announce&a week out and that information was shared out with community members that would help disseminate that information. Unfortunately,we had to change the location because the site that was receiving us decided not to host us there. I don't know the reasons why, but they turned and said we cannot host you. So we had,to do kind of a quick scramble, and I appreciate people turning out to attend that meeting on Tuesday. So thank you for being there. I've been talking to a lot of community members about this on both sides and I appreciate the testimony that has come in through all of this process, through the Leeward:Planning Commission and through the Council process here as well. I just wanted to kind of touch on a couple of things and maybe ask a couple of questions if'that's alright, Chair? You know, in some of the conditions laid out, and this might jump around a little bit, but some of the conditions laid out and the questions that were posed in the community meeting and from community sentiment were about infrastructure. And as the property owner, as the applicant, what do you see as the need to improve infrastructure along at least the frontage side that would be in compliance with state highways? Page 5 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MS. GARSON: So they basically will have to do anything that HDOT (Hawai`i Department of Transportation)tells them to do and that is a condition in your bill right now. CHR. KIMBALL: Can I have you basically eat the mic and talk really loudly so people will be able to hear. Thank you. MS. GARSON: I'm so short. So the bill is drafted.,...It has,the condition that not only do they have to do a TIAR (Traffic Impact Analysis Report), and update to that before the development takes place. But they have to make any improvements that HDOT asks. And so, any impacts that this development would have would actually be mitigated by making those improvements. So I see this as helping the traffic issue. I mean, without these things stay as they are. With this development and having to mitigate those impacts, it should make that area better. (Note: At this time, Applicant John Metzler came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. METZLER: Can I make a quick comment on that answer? Having done several projects that entail DOT involvement,I can tell you that DOT does not favor any input either positive or negative from the applicant. DOT is a confined agency, and they like to rely solely on heir engineering expertise. Therefore, even though we did try to talk to DOT about what they may or may not require for this project, we were never given any indication that they would spend one moment of time helping us understand where they would be at the end of the approval process. As you know,they did help us with the driveway, but even with that they were really reluctant to say or do anything. MR. HUSTACE: Right; Thank you. I think, you know, some of the testimony has really been about infrastructure at large for I know the region of Waimea, kind of regional constraints and challenges we have in the Waimea area. And, you knew, I'm sorry that this has been kind of pinned on you as traffic is an ongoing challenge in Waimea. We have so many people commuting through the Waimea region and the Waimea area to go to and from work where they live. And we really have to have serious conversations about regional connectivity. In conversations with Senator Tim Richards, you know, this is an ongoing process. We've had years of dialogue about bypass roads to help mitigate some of the challenges; conversations with Parker Ranch about other sort of more immediate connectivity issues. So these are the conversations that I need help with community about; about how we make this happen for the community, about connectivity, about access, and ability to safely maneuver out of areas if there's a disaster. We are very constrained in the Waimea community with particular—or Lindsey Road Bridge, for example, right, I mean that bridge is sitting on jacks, and it has some issues there. So there's a lot of connectivity issues in Waimea Page 6 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 that really constrain and limit. When we were talking about development, we're talking about building our community, those things are really playing a big constraint on our town there in Waimea. The other big pieces that were brought up through community testimony and from community were about, you know, our prime ag lands, right, and how we preserve them, how we get more people to access them to use them. A question to you to start off, how can we build agriculture in our community. You know, and this is a small lens from a five-acre parcel. How do you make that sort of commitment and try to tackle some of those challenges in our community? MS. GARSON: This is a very basic answer. Having the back portion designated rural; in a rural district all ag can be dome there. So it doesn't preclude any agricultural operation. So I think some of the testimony or I believe that some of the people felt that the whole parcel was going to be in commercial and,the back portion is SLU, it's going to be Stag Land Use rural and residential agricultural. So we're not taking away an agricultural use there,only on the front portion, which is designed by all of the plans, community development plan (CDP), general plan, state land use, all plans as urban: That's the only part that is going to be rezoned to neighborhood commercial, notthe whole five aces,just that front part. MR. ARAI: Quick, may I add to that`? MR,HUSTACE: Please. MR. ARAL Normally, you know,zoning is just part of creating a proper land use pattern ,right. People have spoken,about spot zoning, but a lot of the plans that form the policy directions for the counties have all pointed toward identifying the urban core for Waimea, which does include the subject property, and that's where you focus the services that serve the broader community. And by keeping it focuses within thaturban core; it relieves potential pressures to use agricultural lands in the outlined areas. You've seen it in Waimea over many, many years where because of the lack of adequate commercial or industrial spaces, people have come in for special permits to establish these uses on agricultural lands. And that has occurred in numerous locations within Waimea Town. That is what you wish and hope to avoid by keeping things focused within the areas properly designated and by properly focusing those uses within that core, then government has that ability to program the necessary improvements that will help make the area better, whether it's traffic, sewer connections, electrical connections, whatever, drainage mitigation. It's better to keep things concentrated so that you can service them well. If they're scattered, then it just makes it much less feasible and more expensive. So hopefully that partially answered your question. Page 7 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MR. HUSTACE: Can you speak to the number of iterations that this project has gone through? You know, through the process; through community dialogue, through feedback and testimony across Leeward Planning Commission meetings, even up till now, you know, how many iterations, even talking to the neighbors, right? Because this is, you know, unfortunately, I see it as like a tension between neighbors that we just haven't been able to resolve. And I know you're feeling this, Mr. Metzler, about just the tension around the neighbors in the area and it has spilled out into the larger community for sure. So in your,conversations with them, how many iterations; how many attempts have you kind of said, you know, this is something that my neighbors believe in; this is something that they value for the community; this is something that is goring to help the community here? MR. METZLER: Well the easy answer is I have in my files over 40 different iterations which go back to the land,planning consultant that we hired early on and their take on highway access,utilities, and.zoning. So we have about 40 different iterations of the site plan,. When incomes to plans that I think would impact the neighborhood we haven't'really been given anything that's very specific. A lot of their concerns are more general. So as this thing has developed, I'd say we probably have changed between seven and ten different plans to accommodate or to bring into our design the neighborhood comments. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you. Chaim may I ask one more question before I yield it over? CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead. MR. HUSTACE Thank you, Chair. I have a number of other things that I'd love to kind'of getter so I'm just going to speak on this one on housing. These iterations,Mr. Metzler, you and I have spoken about this a little bit on what if the entire property was dedicated specifically to housing? What if you had forgo the commercial piece, is that, you know, that's a question from community, is that the linchpin of consternation from community? I'm not sure. But the housing piece is really where I want to go with this and the affordability of housing, the affordability, cost living in Waimea is a huge hurdle, and we're seeing it across the whole county here, the whole island, across the state, nationwide and what actions are we taking as government, as government entities, as leaders in our community to address affordability. You know, we had conversations the last committee meeting about the ag portion. And the condition that kind of doubles down on the no ADU clause, no accessory dwelling units. I'm still struggling with this because yes, it adds more density and it's a condition of the zone itself that limits this possibility, but adding more density, adding greater housing capacity in that space would have the ability to have more affordable units in that area. So that's a piece that I'm still struggling with here. When our supply is down in Waimea,we see huge housing costs, rents Page 8 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 are on our way up because our inventory on our supply is way down. So how does this end? You know, the additional three home units on the site add to our stock; how does it try and tackle some of the challenges we have with affordable housing and the condition for one of those pieces that, you know, as we spoken about, how do we protect that that's an affordable one. At what rate do we keep it affordable and move that forward for the community? MR. METZLER: That's a pretty big question. I think the basic answer is that by creating five house lots, five parcels, which are legally allowed there I believe, it's hard to imagine that we're doing harm to the housing market or in any way making it more expensive. If one adheres to the rules of supply and demand when we make five house lots, that increases the supply and would theoretically reduce or at least put downward pressure on the cost of the property., , When we began thinking about subdividing the five-acre parcel we did a fair amount of research and there was a good contingent of demand for small commercial lots, and I believe there still is despite some of the testimony here today. We had a professional real estate guy look at the situation, he testified to the Council here that there is a shortage of commercial. So for us to stop, Mr. Hustace, and back track to some sort of a 100 percent housing program in order to get to your initial 'question, that's going to take us several years to do given how much time it's taken us to get to where we are today. So I would be reluctant to launch into that kind of process. MS. GARSON: Can I add? The first application that we brought, and I think we've talked about this before, that the zoning request during that first application was that the back'portion be urban an RS-10, and the community did not like that. They thought that it was too dense. And so that's the application that we withdrew because it was too dense. Going back to your affordable housing requirement;so with the five lots it triggers the Chapter 11. So whatever the Chapter 11 requirements are on the five units for affordability, the applicant will have to comply. And,that's also a condition, the compliance with Chapter 11, in the bill. MR. ARAI And if I could add one more thing? The 2024 County Affordable Housing Guidelines specifies that a three-bedroom single-family home at servicing people making 140 percent of the average median income (AMI), that number is $653,000 based on what I saw. That is not far off from what testimony has said Mr. Metzler represented that these lots would go for roughly about $300,000 and then when you put a house on it it's going to be somewhere near $700,000. But also keep in mind that these are half-acre lots. You know, that's going to provide opportunity to not only live on the property but hopefully have some sort of subsistence farming, if that is that right term, you know, where people grow their own food for their own needs. So again, I see this as providing Page 9 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 and addressing some of the affordability questions because you're looking at, even the County's—and that's like workforce level at 140 percent AMI. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you. Chair, I'll yield for now. Thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Mr. Onishi. MR. ONISHL Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to do these in different phases. So the first one I'm going to start with is that can I call up Mr. Kuwano? Members, you all have this map, right? Okay. And just to let you know, on that note, it was mentioned about the Kamakawia`ole Family, I'm family to them. My nana is a Kamakawiwa`ole, okay. Uncle Oscar Penouaroff, a longtime supporter of me; business man in construction, so he always supported me or encouraged me to run as a County Council Member. So I think we're related somehow. So I just wanted to kind of make that known. And then my nana's sister used to be the caretaker with her husband at Parker Ranch where the rodeo is, where it has the race track. And Aunty Minnie (Rabarra) used to be there for like over ten years I think they worked there. And I was going to visit them when I was like maybe ten years old, eight years old. So I remember Waimea how it was way back then. So you're talking about over 50 something years and we used to`go there all the time. But I've heard from people here that are 30 years whatever; I go way back, So I've seen how Waimea was before,;and through development and through everything, and through services and everything it changes. It just changes. Right next to my parents' house we had a senior apartment building built. And we couldn't stop the progress because that's the needed housing that we had to get, right. So sometimes it just happens, right. But thank you. I just wanted to kind of make that known to everyone. Okay. So, Mr. Kuwano',,if you're looking at the map, you're on the side of where the Fish and,the Hog,re taurant is, right? (Note: At this time, Testifier John Kuwano came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KUWANO: Yes, sir. Yes. The Honoka`a side of the property. Yes. MR. ONISHL So on your property it shows on the map there's about like maybe three or four buildings on your property. MR. KUWANO: Yes. They are all permitted. MR. ONISHL No, no. I'm just asking about it. Okay. So, if I can ask you, what kind of production do you have; are you farming on that land? Page 10 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MR. KUWANO: Yes. I do have pictures of our farm. MR. ONISHL No, no. I'm just asking. You don't have to show me. So what are you farming? MR. KUWANO: Avocados, citrus. MR. ONISHL Okay. And so the warehouses are used for,the production on your farm? MR. KUWANO: That and I do have a side business used for storage. MR. ONISHL So you have storage Point of Order: MS. VILLEGAS: Point of order, Chair. CHR. KIMBALL: Yes, go ahead, Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, I don't understand how this line of questioning MR. ONISHL It's because the use of the areas. That's'what I'm bringing up because, like I said, if you,have the map in front of you, that five-acre parcel that's in front of us, if you look at the area there's a lot of development that has been done in the past. And as we at the last meeting was mentioned that from the Fish Arid the'og boundary going into town is supposed to be with the CDP (;Community Development Plan),and with the Waimea Design Committee; that's the area where commercial is supposed to be built. MS. VILLEGAS: I think that that's an issue that's under contention. My concern is that Mr. Kuwano is being asked what I, even at a distance here in Kona, feel are questions that aren't appropriate and kind of are making me uncomfortable. MR. OISHL I'll leave it up to the Chair to decide. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. CHR KIMBALL: Mr. Onishi, I'm going to allow the line of questioning. I think itis relevant to discuss the surrounding area and the usage of the surrounding area. Although I do think it is a little odd to be questioning a neighbor. MR. ONISHL I know. CHR. KIMBALL: So if you can, keep it within the confines of that. Page 11 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MR. ONISHL Okay. So with that, then to the right side of the property, which is going towards town, there's multiple buildings on that property, right? MR. KUWANO: Yes, sir. Yeah. MR. ONISHL Okay. And then across the street, across your property there's the Minit Stop fried chicken or that service station. MR. KUWANO: Yes, sir. MR. ONISHL So that was done many years ago, right?. MR. KUWANO: It was done by Richard White. Guess where Richard White resides now? Where does Richard White reside? He's in Montana. He's created so much congestion in the neighborhood that he moved to Montana. MR. ONISHL Okay. But then so that,was approved back then for that service station, correct? MR. KUWANO: Yes; MR. ONISHL Yeah, okay. And if you go along there's other businesses like I'm sure MR,KUWANO: So what does this questioning have to do with the ag zoning use? MR. ONISHL No,but you were mentioning earlier in your testimony about prime ag lands, right, development? MR.KUWANO; Yes. MR. ONISHL But' f you look at this map like you have in front of you, there's a lot of development that has been done from years before until now. MR. KUWANO: That's what we're talking about. Do you get it? 1VMR. ONISHL But then, basically excuse me, I have the floor. CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. I'm going to stop this here. What I think would be appropriate is actually to have our Planning Director to come up and speak a little bit about the land uses there. MR. ONISHI: Thank you so much for your time. Page 12 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MR. KUWANO: Yeah, I don't appreciate being attacked like this. MR. ONISHL No, I'm not attacking you. MR. KUWANO: Yeah, I don't appreciate this one bit. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, sir, for your understanding. MR. ONISHI: Thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Director Darrow, can I ask you to come to the dais here and possibly respond to Council Member Onishi's questions about the historical land use amendments in the area. Thank you;sir, for your understanding. (Note: At this time, Planning Director Jeff Darrow came forward to address the members of the Committee) MR. DARROW: Aloha, Chair Kimball; Vice Chair Onishi, and Members of the Committee. Jeff Darrow with that Planning Department. MR. ONISHL Okay, Director, so you have the mapin front of you, right. So as I had mentioned before with the community development plan and also, I guess with the Waimea Design Committee,ths'area that we're talking about, is it allowable with the Planning Department? MR: DARRO In our recommendation we look at Number 1, the General Plan and the graphic,depiction of the policies within the General Plan, which is what we referred to as the land use pattern allocation guide map or the LUPAG map. On that map;it identifies the areas that we would like to see urban type uses, High-density uses, low-density uses, in relation commercial, single-family, as well as agricultural and open type uses. In this particular area of Waimea it is within the medium-density urban and low-density urban area. It's near the edge but it's not outside of it, it's within it. And so it identifies it as being consistent with the General plan for these requested uses. MR. ONISHL Okay. Thank you. They also mention about prime ag lands in development, like Latamilo in that area, Latamilo,would that be considered one of the prime ag lands? MR. DARROW: Are we talking about this property? MR. ONISHL No. Just in general. MR. DARROW: The overall area. Page 13 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MR. ONISHL Just in general because they mentioned about prime ag lands. MR. DARROW: This particular property as mentioned previously I was zoned commercial and state land use urban previously. Half of the property or approximately half is still within the urban district, which means we don't look at what type of agricultural land it is. The other half of the property is within the state land use agricultural district, which is why the applicant is requesting the change. On that portion it's identified as B soils and prime agricultural land. MR. ONISHL Okay. On half of the property. MR. DARROW: Correct. MR. ONISHL And that's the front or the back? MR. DARROW: That would be'the back portion of the property. MR. ONISHL So where the commercial area is, that would be just— MR. DARROW: It's within the state land use urban. MR. ONISHL Right. Okay. So my'last thing is, okay, so back again, so that Lalamilo Farms area, is that one of the key areas in Waimea that is very prime agricultural lands? CHR. KIMBALL: No. That's'not appropriate at this time. MR. DARROW: So this particular area of Waimea is very fertile. It has a combination of b; C, oils, which is what is identified as very good or good soils. It's good soils and fair soils; B being good. We don't have A soils on this island, which is identified as very good. A majority of this proposed area is located within prime agricultural land. MR. ONISHL Okay. Thank you. MR. DARROW: But again, if I could just elaborate. When we look at a request that's going from a particular state land use designation, in this case agricultural to a rural or an urban type request, we look at the long-range plan, which is the General Plan, of the direction that as mentioned by one of the testifiers that not only the community, but the island had participated in to identify where they wanted to see these uses. After that, more specifically, it was the community that came together and identified these areas in the community development plan. And so both in the General Plan and the community development plan, this request does meet conformance and is consistent. Page 14 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MR. ONISHL Okay. Thank you very much for that information. Just one last thing. CHR. KIMBALL: I'm just going to check in and see if there's anybody else because your time has expired, and I can come back to you. MR. ONISHL No. But I just wanted to say that in Lalamilo there is some families MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please. CHR. KIMBALL: I'll come back to you. MR. ONISHL No. But there's some families that are long titho farmers and because of the way they had to farm, they didn't want their children to continue farming so they educated their children to get out of farming. So there are some families that I know that farm there, after they get retired, they're going to be finishing farming. Thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Onishi. Okay. We're going to move on to Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. You know, first off, I want to recognize Council Member Hustace. You're in the hot seat. Thsis a really tough one for you especially because part of kind,of protocol on the Council is or has been, you know, deferring to the Council Member of the district when there is a highly contentious issue like this. I suppose I'm flabbergasted also, and I want to apologize to the people of this island that they have to sit and listen to these kinds of disclaimers and justifications to find loopholes or some way to disclaim what the people have asked for. Our job is to represent our constituents and the constituents in Waimea have spoken. And, you know, I've heard all these different things going from the history and the years and when things were brought forward and when things were pulled back, and let's remember this property was purchased about 23 years ago for $300,000.'The definition of prospecting is them to sit on property for decades. This proposal would change the value of this property by millions of dollars. Let's'also remember that the lots are being sold off for somebody else to build these commercial properties; for somebody else to build the homes back there. There is no guarantee they will go to local people. The lots can be built and just sat upon, where they further escalate in price and become more and more out of reach for our local people. The only people we've heard testify in support of this project are real estate agents, real estate brokers of which Mrs. Metzler has become a very successful, Page 15 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 very wealthy family through real estate. You know, we live in a capitalist, commercialized society, so I get it. The employees of Metzler Contracting have supported it; contractors; property managers. I'd like it to be pointed out that the person who testified saying there aren't enough commercial properties in Waimea actually manages commercial properties. Direct benefit. I want to say it's insulting, and I am sorry to the people of Waimea and the people of this island for the words "you people"being spoken,about you. I am so sorry. That is appalling to me when we know better. Being a descendant of colonial missionary business people who came here five generations ago, I'd like to think I know better and I'm just so sorry that this is,still happening in this day and age. It is inexcusable and is a reflection of the ignorance and disrespect for our host people and our host culture. I'm tired of white savior colonial mentalities driven by greed and personal gain. I want to point out our job again is to listen to our constituents. As Council Members, we don't know better than the people we represent. The people with business interests right now like this dori't"know better than the people who live - I was just at the Minit Stop and it took me 20"minutes to get out and turn left. The concept of adding more traffic. Let's remember our constructs of how we write up our plans and all these colonial ways that we designate land use and planning and what not. They're just manmade. None of those are naturally occurring. Naturally relevant actual land designations. This piece of property is in a flood corridor; directly connected to a'stream that-flows from Mauna a Wakea. The history"ofthat steam that I do wonder about. I wonder if anybody even still knows those stories. What's happened in Waimea thus far should not and cannot be used as a justification,to continue zoning changes like this. What was approved in the past is why we are where we are now. It should not be used as a justification to keep going in these directions which just add to the congestion, the health and safety issues- Lack of infrastructure; this piece of property is so beautiful. I was just there the other day.:The homes that are upon it are magnificent, historic CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Villegas,just letting you know the buzzer went off if you can summarize and we can come back to you. MS: VILLEGAS: Yes. Okay. So I just really, really, really, want for each and every one of us to dig deep. Don't look for the disclaimers and something that makes it okay for us to approve something that is so blatantly against the will of the people. I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Coming back here into Hilo. Council Member Kagiwada. Page 16 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. I'll keep this pretty short. I'm having a hard time supporting this project because I feel like the things that we really need in our community are affordable housing and areas for growing food, and I feel like this isn't really addressing either of those. When I met with the Metzler's they told me that the neighbors on either side are not supportive of this project, which made me kind of question why to continue. And then I hear more and more people in the community coming out against it. It does concern me that it doesn't seem to be something that people really want or need, I guess I also am just reflective of like the Hilo community and the issue of, you know, building out sprawl for commercial purposes when we have an area that really needs revitalizing, and we have like empty office space in our downtown as well. I have a hard time wanting to see that continue out even though,it may be in our General Plan that that is an area that could be builtout in the future when we need it. I feel like sometimes we're looking at that first because it's the easiest place and maybe the most profitable place to develop,you know, new office spaces as opposed to looking at doing something in our more dense commercial areas, which could probably use the revitalization. I'm not, you know, an expert on the Waimea community but I'm hearing a lot from people here. I will listen to what my colleague who represents the area has to say before making my final decision. But overall I feel like this project isn't going to address the needs,of the community as a whole. So, thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. And for those in the audience here for other committees, we are still on the first committee of the day, Legislative Approvals and Acquisitions. Apologies for us running behind schedule. Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. You know, when I entered the chambers, I was really struck by folks in the gallery. It reminded me very much of the,Kendrick Lamar Superbowl presentation; the flag, the dancer divided. And I saw community members with a clear divide. And for me it signified a real tension point that surfacing within our community and I think that any bill could have come before us, it's just unfortunate, Mr. Metzler, that it's your particular request that's before us. But what it's highlighting is the future of our community, where are we going; the haves, the have nots, the critical need for not just housing but affordable housing, but the resource constraints that we're facing. There's a lot of all of that really wrapped up into your project, Mr. Metzler. I want to apologize to my colleague. I made the suggestion of having a community meeting. I apologize that I couldn't be there. I'm coordinating a three-day fundraiser that starts this afternoon, and this week was tough for me. But I want to thank you for rising to the occasion to hold space because it's not easy. It's extremely difficult and I've had many sleepless nights just like you for very tough projects within our community. But thank you for holding that space. Page 17 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 I'm saddened that we couldn't find a way forward. I hear that there may have been a couple of good ideas that emerged. Uncle Kalani Flores' ideas being one of them. I hope that there is time and opportunity to explore that more because our kuleana as Council Members is to continue to work through that tension and build community towards a collective vision where we can all thrive. And our kuleana is to also set policy. And so this request that's before us, it might seem simple;"five homes, commercial buildings, but when you start to add it all up now you are setting us sailing towards a specific direction. And is that the direction that we want to go? I don't know. Clearly by the testimony that's presented today it's no, but I will also say is we cannot come and say no to everything. At some point we need to figure out where development is going to go because we're having babies, our babies are having babies and they need housing, right? Right. And affordable housing and agriculture; food systems that sustain us. I'm having a real tough time with this one because our job is to take a motion out of the decision making and evaluate what is in front of us. Is the request here, the proposed uses, are they in alignment with area or not. But it's really hard to ignore everything that's been presented here today. I'm going to suggest, and I know that the Metzler's have gone through many',many iterations, but my support for anything on this property will be tied to an affordability element of a collaboration with the Housing Land Trust,that we have here on our island. If we actually mean to build affordable, let's work with people, nonprofit organizations that are'in the business of doing just that. If we are going to commit ourselves to any kind of commercial activity It must be tied to agriculture because we talk about wanting to be food secure and with everything that's happening nationally, globally, we should be motivatec,to ensuring our community's food resilience and security. Again, Council Member Hustace, you are in a tough situation. We are here to support you, but these are my requests of the applicant and their consultant. I'm not trying to meddle in your community, but I think it's an important opportunity for us to build community in this situation. Thank you, Chair. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else? Council Member Hustace. MR. HUSTACE: You know, my personalI'm grateful for the deference given to Council Members for particular districts. My personal view on that is that I want you to speak to the County at large and what it means for the County and not necessarily specific communities. I know each of our communities has different needs and concerns, but I want you to think about what it means for the bigger picture holistically for our communities. So I appreciate that, but I want you to vote, you know, and consider these things, you know, how you see your Page 18 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 community through these lenses. So thank you for that. Thank you, Council Members. Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz, on that. Yes. Council Member Villegas, to your point; definitely in the hot seat here. It's kind of warm back here on my `okole. And Tuesday kind of spoke to that as well, being in the hot seat and trying to thread the needle between community and community partners and those interested in developing and building community and trying to find a path forward. So trying to find that is challenging at times. So I'm grateful for all the insight input from community members, from neighbors, from those wanting to invest in our community. So thank you for that. Being in the hot seat comes with challenges, Those being vailed threats; those being verbal assaults on spouses. So I do not'appreciate that from community. Please make that known. That is not how you earn my support. That is not how you earn my support for anything regardless of what you're talking about. You do not earn my support that way,.,I'm just going to make that very clear. I'm here to work with you; I'm here to represent the communities of the North and South Kohala District. I have a lot of alohafor you,and all that we do in the community together. I grew up in Waimea. Z lived over there 30 years now. Born on Oahu, grew up in Waimea. I've seen itchange: I've seen it grow, and I understand the constraints that we have in the Waimea community. So some of the thoughts I've had over the past couple days andthe questions and not really necessarily if you have an answer for it now and here but, you know, one—and Mr. Kuwano, thank you for being here. Thank you for, you know, speaking about infrastructure; thank you for speaking about infrastructure. You know, sitting on the South Kohala Traffic Safety Committee knowing clear and well the challenges we have the region, we have major hurdles, and I need support on those sort of issues going forward and it's going to take working with our state partners,you know, to find the common ground there. The piece about agriculture is really just"a question to community and us as we face the challenges of the future about how do we build community; how do we support community with our agricultural parcels and our agricultural property. You know, how do we better support our farmers and our ranchers; how do we create a cultural legacy of agriculture, right, this is engrained in the hills of Waimea and the plains of Lalamilo, right, of all of the Kohala region. So; what steps are we taking to educate the next generation to get on the land, to work the land, to feed our families and really support our food systems at large, right. And how do we help and commit to this sort of endeavor. With the challenges coming down and the goals we have, we have work to do. We have a lot of work to do. I need help from those that want to invest in our community. Mr. Metzler, I need your help to kind of find this path forward as well, and those like yourselves that see a future for Waimea through your lens as well as the Page 19 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 history and the collaboration willing from the community partners. So there's partnerships to be had. I'm just not seeing it right now. I don't know; we've had this community meeting. I know you've reached out personally to members of, you know, the opposition side to find common ground. It's been a lengthy process. I still think there's something we can do. I just don't know exactly what it is, and I was hoping Tuesday would kind of provide some insight into that. And I'm grateful for the bodies and the people being there to attend and provide their mana`o and ike on these pieces. When it comes down to it, if you saw this on a Piece of paper and you see the alignment on the Waimea Town Design Plan`and the CDP, and the General Plan, yes, it goes forward, right. It matches all these things about how do we see the bounds of community; where do we define development; where do we put that kind of regulations and restrictions on those spaces. In my conversation with community, you know,unfortunately we're looking at a community development plan of 2008. So, time has changed. I still value this document. This is something that the community has come together around and supported, spent countless hours building this together, but we need to update these sort of documents and guiding principles and visions. So the General Plan coming forward that needs'to be that sort of dialogue,and, you know, how we look in the future. And this is a g6od building block about it. CHR. KIMBALL: I'm going to ask you to summarize. I know I'll defer to you on this 'as iti ,in,your district, but please summarize and we can always come back. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you. As I've stated, Chair, I prefer that you do not defer to me; that,you really think about community at large and the community impacts and,those sort of things, and how we work partners willing to do the work. Just one thing I wanted to point out in the CDP, and I'll pass it off to other Council Members if they have any more insight. There's a lot of value in the 2008 CDP. One thing,l just do want to point out that one of the strategies, because we have to consider all,of the strategies in there, Strategy 2.5 speaks about this secondary commercial center on the east end of town, right, and that was in means of providing',some of the necessities and means on that end so that people don't necessarily have to track all the way into the core center of the community. It's not,the ultimate solution, I realize that. But it provides some alleviations, you know, and alleviates the traffic congestion and kind of focuses it in pockets of the community. So there definitely is some value to that. So I'll just leave it at that for now if anyone else wants to chime in. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Hustace. Council Member Galimba. Page 20 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. This is a very difficult one and my other Council Members as usual have been extremely eloquent about bringing forth all of the tensions and contradictions in this. For me, one of the testifiers mentioned fairness and I guess for me just like looking at it very simply, and I acknowledge all of the feelings around this, and I do feel some of the feelings are about bigger issues around Waimea in particular where it's intense; the sort haves, have not, and affordability and the entire island. Those concerns and issues are sort of being placed on this, to me, it's a very small project. So basically to me in fairness looking at land plans and what exists on the ground, I am reluctantly; well not reluctantly, but with acknowledgement of the feelings of the community or some of the community, I will be voting for it. And I just wanted to note that I believe no matter how this goes forward, it is going to continue on to the Council level whether we vote to forward it favorably or unfavorably,I It will have another hearing. So I just wanted to bring that up to the community, so they understand that's the process. So thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. Anyone else? MS. VILLEGAS: Yup. Please, Chair. CHR. KIMBALL: I'll go back to you in Kona, Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. You know, it's interesting hearing the reflections of Council Members, which indicate which way people will be voting today. And it makes me sad because whatit says, you know, we as public servants ask for community to show up and testify and we, you know, almost beg for community to participate. And as was stated by prior testifiers and they do and they show up consistently, and then we send the'message that we're still going to ignore you. And I'm sorry. I break my heart. I also want to just point out because it was brought to my attention by some people that know the history of this property that it, you know, was zoned commercial in the front part on the highway, but the Metzler's actually came and downzoned it after they purchased it and, you know, it was a wise business move because then they didn't have to pay commercial taxes on the property or at that tax rate. it brought the tax rate down to an agricultural. And now we're being asked to rezone it, and I just see this dichotomy of perceived responsibility for us as Council Members to make land prospecting and business and growth to what is not a circular economy, which is one of the problems easier for people that have the money to operate in these arenas which is way more money than I will ever know, and that's okay. But I won't be supporting this and, you know, it's disappointing. I have to make my decisions based on value systems and I'm grateful that I do sleep at night because I will stand up, speak up, and be with our people for what they ask for and what they elected us for. So, I yield. Page 21 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Coming back here. Council Member Hustace, any final thoughts? MR. HUSTACE: I have a lot of thoughts, Chair. CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. MR. HUSTACE: I could probably keep you here all day. "Sorry. Could I have Director Darrow come up if that's okay? Because there was a comment made by Council Member Villegas, I just want some clarity,on it. On the downzoning piece, what was the background there? I justneed a little bit of clarity. I understand the impacts and all that, right. What happened there in that sort of case, you know, prior to the Metzler's taking it on? I'm just curious on the history there. MR. DARROW: The background informationvithin the background report just gives factual information that in 1993, that was'the effective date of the change of zone from agricultural five acres to commercial neighborhood 7,500. In September 2012, the Planning Director, it said, initiated to repeal the ordinance back to its previous ordinance. Now it could have been a request by the Metzler's. I think he could answer that. But it looks like the Planning Director initiated it. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you. Mr. Metzler, or Ms. Garson, if you wanted to address that? MR. METZLER Honestly, I can't remember the exact dates or even approximate dates when the prior ordinance was rescinded. But it was our choice. Unfortunately, for the Council Member who just spoke, I don't know what property tax difference is between commercial and agricultural, but I do know when we made that decision to rescind the commercial ordinance it was because we feltlike the property"should live up to its agricultural potential. And our intent at that point and time was to keep the property in ag use for as long as possible. So, that's'what I know. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you. Ms. Garson. S:'GARSON: Sorry. I'm trying to find the ordinance but it's not 2012. The background report was wrong. I believe it was 2002. MR. HUSTACE: 2002? MS. GARSON: Yeah. And there is correspondence that the request to initiate came from the prior owner. The request came in before he bought the property, Page 22 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 but the rezoning ordinance was passed after he bought the property. Like he bought the property in May, and it was rezoned in like July or something. MR. METZLER: The background on that is that when we bought the property, you know, to approximately—we asked Mr. Langevin if he would do the paperwork. Mr. Langevin is one of the owners of the property closest to Mauna Kea. We asked him if he could please rescind that ordinance because all of us at that point and time did want to keep the property in ag ase, and that statement is substantiated that Mr. Langevin's property is a five-acre ag,and the next door property is five-acre ag, and ours was five-acre ag----7well it is now but until we decided that it would be the best use for the property to follow the zoning and land use regiments that are in place now. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you. Ms. Garson, anything else on that? MS. GARSON: No. It's just Ordinance 02-107,was the repeal MR. HUSTACE: Okay. Council Member Kierkiewicz presented an idea of the Land Trust. What was that possibility; could,you just explore and explain the path you kind of took looking at that avenue?'' MR. METZLER: I'm happy to do so. I don't have my notes in front of me right now, but my initial contactwas with an outfit,with the acronym of HALE (o Hawai`i), I have subsequent to that first contact with HALE, I have done some investigating:as to other affordable housing options and there aren't many. I looked primarily at about five of them aside from HALE. Each one has its different requirements and setups. As I told, I think I mentioned it to the County Council in my last meeting and certainly with Ashley Kierkiewicz's topic, we feel like that's a viable option., However, if the community that we heard on Tuesday might is going to,continue their opposition I'm finding that these helpful entities tendf to shy away,from projects that are in dispute. So I have to say to you that I have dropped that option until we know that there's somewhere to go, there's some way to make it happen. Otherwise, no one's going to have an interest in it. But it is a possibility, Mr. Hustace. MR. HUSTACE: Okay. Thank you. MR.METZLER: And it's one we would like to talk about and pardon me for interrupting, but I did talk this morning with Mr. Flores. MR. HUSTACE: Okay. MR. METZLER: It was a very brief conversation because we both had things to do other than this. Page 23 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MR. HUSTACE: Sure. You're here with us now. So, yeah. MR. METZLER: He suggested that I request a postponement which, you know, I'm kind of tired of postponements, and I'm tired of this whole prospect of being targeted essentially. So I told Mr. Flores that I would not request for a postponement, but if somehow somebody can come up with a path forward, I'm certainly open. But I really feel more of less defeated now because this seems to be going nowhere, and I don't think I'm ever going to`make the neighborhood happy. So, you know, it's kind of kill fight at this point and time. MR. HUSTACE: You know, some of that's,you know, that's not the right word I was looking for but just the work, you know, collaboration, cooperation with neighbors and community. You know,We look at the White properties across the highway and kind of some of the challenges that were brought on„by that. You know, they had with those rezones of some of those spaces and buildout of some of those areas, they did have some concessions for community. They have the senior housing sort of project; affordable units as well. I know that's not necessarily like all that possible with five acres. There're definitely those physical constraints to kind of provide that. ,But I'm hearing from my colleagues about, you know, how do we really protect these affordable rates for spaces and providing for community. So just a question to throw out there'for you and this is a conversation. I've seen the work that„you've done in North Kohala with the Bond Memorial Library and the work thatyou've put in there, you know, time, money, blood, and sweat into that space. So I know that you are very committed to community, and you value and share an aloha for these spaces that are historical spaces in our community. Do you have something of that mind for the Waimea community? R. METZLER: As Katherine here has tried to emphasize for several years now, we went into`this thing trying to provide smaller house lots, which would be more affordable. I hope everybody is listening back there. The community, when we were at,the Leeward Planning Commission stage, the community said, no we don't like chopping up ag lands into small house lots. So one of those iterations that you're asking about earlier, Councilman Hustace, was to accommodate the Leeward planning Committee, which was listening to the neighbors, and we doubled or tripled the size of the lots from what would've been the minimum of 7;500 (square feet) to half acre to allow for ag. MR. HUSTACE: Right. MR. METZLER: Here we sit today with nothing to show for it other than more opposition. MR. HUSTACE: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Metzler. Page 24 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MR. METZLER: And so, yes, I did have that Bond Library type attitude when I went into this thing, but again, kill fight. MR. HUSTACE: Yeah. Sure. Well, I just want to thank you for the work you've done on the Bond Library. So please make note of that. Chair, I'll try and wrap up here. So I thank you for the allowance of time. You know, I'm of multiple minds on this. There's an amazing amount of„pressure that I'm feeling in the Waimea community on all sides. So please be aware of that. And I'm grateful for the support that has been shown toward community meeting, the support to reach out to community, to gather community and this doesn't end here that we have work to do on a lot of these thugs. You know, we even look at—so I mentioned the White property across the road and the work and the division over time, the subdivision. I know the `0'6kala Farms went through that process. They subdivided some really prime agricultural land. Those are still potentially ag parcels, one-acre parcels. It's still carving up a lot of these prime ag lands. So there's this challenge of when these things happen and communities watching or communities not watching and how do we be, you know, all responsible for the work together,and moving these things forward. You know, I hear the concerns from community about infrastructure, about water. We have work to do on our reservoir system of Waimea, but not only that. It's our watershed health. It's our watershed health of the Kohala Mountains. This is some of the concerns that came up in the community meeting, right. We speak on water; you have the water credits for the property, so that is kind of applied in berms of some of the opposition stance on that. But we have work to protect and preserve the water of the Kohala communities. And then not to mention kind of looking ahead and forward as we develop these spaces and investing in wastewater facilities across the region, very rural community. We work to preserve some of our soils and our ag lands through that mechanism there. But, you know, I,see the conversation about moving away, affordability, cost of living, and this is because we are hindering some of the development in our community, whether it's housing, whether it's business. People want a vibrant space where they can start a business, grow a family, grow crops, all these sorts of things. So there is work to be done. And I want to work with all of you; I want to find this pathway. This is not the last we'll be having this conversation about the bill. It will be moving forward to Council regardless of whatever is decided here. So'there's an opportunity to kind of provide more insight on recommendations on this. So, thank you, Chair. Grateful for the time. I'll yield to you. CHR. KIMBALL: Alright. Any further discussion before we move forward with the vote? I'll just weigh in a couple of comments. First, I'm going to start with some apologies to the gentleman here in the second row. As the Chair, I have the decision about how to allow things to proceed forward. I apologize for you Page 25 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 feeling a little bit grilled. Understood. I just wanted to apologize to you. I also just wanted to just acknowledge Council Member Hustace. You know, this is a tough one. I think many of us walked into a tough decision when we started our first terms. Jenn had the BID (Business Improvement District), I had a Waipi`o Valley decision. But I'm really sorry to hear that you've had some personal threats or threats made to members of your family. That's never appropriate under any circumstances. So my apologies on that. I'm going to just weigh in a little bit on what Council Member Galimba said is that it is important that we analyze these things from a point that is kind of neutral of the asker. And I bring this up because, you'know intimations about the intention of who's asking for the project I can recall in the last term a very, very similar project that was asked for by a different person that just kind of sailed through and I think we have to be very, very careful as a body that we don't look at the same situation differently because of who's asking, and we tried to attach a certain intention to who's asking. So looking at this at the surface value and hearing some of the concerns of the community, I want to actually ask Director barrow to come up because I do have a question related to the fact that we have the state land use boundary amendment and the rezone here in front of us. And interestingly iri this case the state land use boundary amendment was;given 'a favorable recommendation from the Planning Commission and the rezone was not,which I,think is a very unusual situation. What sort of entitlements are associated with the state land use boundary amendmentfrom agricultural to rural? MR. DARROW; Well, number one,higher density. The minimum lot size in the state land use agricultural district is one acre. Within a state land use rural district it's one-half acre. CHR, KIMBALL;, But in both state land use ag and state land use rural that subdivision into smaller lots would require a rezoning action. MR. DAROW: Correct. CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. What is the ability to develop housing on state land use rural as opposed to state land use ag; how many dwellings can you put? MR. DARROW: Well it depends again on your zoning. Your zoning normally dictates your density limit, right. So right now having agricultural five acres and rural designation, number one is inconsistent; number two, it's just your standards for farm dwellings. CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. Mr. Metzler, the whole decision to have the commercial zoning at the front, obviously that was part of the state land use calls Page 26 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 it urban; the community development plan has it identified as commercial growth. Is that something that is critical for you to proceed with the subdivision of the residential lots? MR. METZLER: I'm sorry. If I understand the question correctly, is it such that you're asking is the commercial component so important of the success or failure? CHR. KIMBALL: So let me give you a hypothetical and my colleagues will tell you that I tend to avoid hypotheticals. But there are cases where a lot of infrastructure needs to be built in order for a project to be feasible and that is often dealt with by having a commercial component. In order,for you to do the subdivision of the residential RA (Residential Ag) lots, are you requiring the income from the commercial piece to make that happen? MR. METZLER: Well that's almost impossible for me to answer because I don't know the value, I've never split the value with that componentry because again, when we decided to develop the property, if that's the proper word, we were informed that there is a demand for commercial and demand for residential. So we went down that pathway. Several hundred thousand dollars later in legal and planning fees and what we're going through now,we don't seem to have made much progress. And we would certainly, we decide that we want to keep going down this path, it's going,to costus a lot more money and time to break off the commercial component and start again<I believe with the Leeward Planning Commission. I'm not an expertin this but we'd have to go basically through the whole process again, would we not? CHR. KIMBALL: Yes. MR. METZLER- So' we would be spending another two or three years and I don't know how much money it would cost to do that with still no guarantee that we could make everybody happy enough to vote yes. So does that answer your question? CHR. KIMBALL: It does, it does. And I think, you know, I think listening to my colleagues here on the dais, I think all of us have a sense of there's got to be a way to address the really valid concerns that the community is raising with the intent, which is if you look at the overall area this does, it is a place that kind of makes sense for some info with housing. What I'm going to suggest, I'm not going to suggest the postponement because you've been waiting for a long time. I think we continue to move forward, but I think there are some additional conditions that we can talk about, maybe you've talked about them with Mr. Flores, that can get us where we need to be. So I'm going to be supportive of that opportunity. I'm not sure what that looks like, but I think in the interim maybe you and Council Member Hustace can talk or others. There are still Page 27 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 opportunities to tweak this a little bit further with some additional dialogue and I'm willing to allow for that to happen. MR. METZLER: Well, if I may? CHR. KIMBALL: Yes. MR. METZLER: When Mr. Hustace and Ms. Kierkiewicz approached us about the postponement that we're now into, I agreed happily to listen. I was asked to listen to the community concerns, which I did on Tuesday night, but when Mr. Hustace asked me if I was willing to do that. My answer was I am certainly willing, but I would like to see specific requirements or requests from the community, and I got none frankly. Everything was broad: There's no blame here. I'm not trying to, you know, demean or ignore anything I heard on Tuesday night, but no one said, if you get,iid of this component or you change that component or anything other than just generalities then I would be more inclined to help. But we're not making any progress here. If you're asking specific questions of me, I can't answer them because I need a little bit of time to prepare a valid answer. But without specifics, I'm sorry, I just can't see how we can move forward. CHR. KIMBALL: Yeah,point made. So now I'm'going to look to the group here and ask if between now and there's really not going to be an opportunity to have this dialogue right here in this forum.,But if there's a willingness from all of the testifiers to share; so let's think outside the box kind of ideas about how there are'additional conditions that could be added to this ordinance that the Metzler's would agree to,that's my ask of you right now. And what I'll just say is, you know,dither contact me directly or Mr. Hustace directly and we'll try to work on that. I mean;this is the sausage making, it's ugly. (Note: ,At this time, testifier Pua Case is addressing the Committee Members from the audience.) MS. CASE: Since my husband's name was mentioned right now in this conversation, I just want to clarify. It's not about my husband. CHR. KIMBALL: Understood. Thank you, Ms. Case. Yes. Understood, understood. MS. VILLEGAS: Chair, I couldn't that last part. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Ms. Case. MS. CASE: I just want to have this clarification because I don't want this to be between— Page 28 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 CHR. KIMBALL: Yes. Understood, understood,understood. This is going to be a collaborative effort between the director, Mr. Hustace, and the applicants and then anybody from the community that wants to share with either of us potential definable solutions that we can add, we're not putting any names on who that person—anybody here can contribute to that. So with that, I'm going to stop the—it's not appropriate in this forum to have this dialogue with the audience so I'm going to ask that at this point and time if there are any further comments from the body, we'll proceed with the vote about moving this to Council. Council Member Villegas, checking in with you in Kona. MS. VILLEGAS: I'm sorry. I didn't understand thatlast question. CHR. KIMBALL: I'm just asking for Any further comments before we proceed to the vote. MS. VILLEGAS: You know,my,only personal comment is we went through a very serious challenge with a similar potential land utilization plan that was in my district and I just, I firmly believe that it's okay to say no, and the community appreciates that because we have a lot of work to do on our infrastructure and capacity. And we don'thave to say yes; and we don't have to fix it for everybody. Sometimes it can just be a no. But my bestwishes to the community in Waimea to be able to determineWhat their wishes, you know, would be. And thank you, Mr. Metzler, for your willingness to be open to that. You're in a tough seat. You're in a tough spot; I've been told'by other developers that, you know,they don't like vilified, and unfortunately with what's happening in our world essentially, we're a microcosm of it. And so we're watching and feeling all of the same things on this island, and they become a microcosm., And so these decisions are really, really important Because they,send a message,to our community about the value systems of their leaders and their priorities, and whether or not we'll vote along the lines that are authentically aligned with the value systems we claim to have, which is food resilience,protection of watershed, flood corridors, and supporting authentic affordable housing projects when we're looking at any rezoning requests. Thank you, Chair Kimball. I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Council Member Kierkiewicz, did you have your light on? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I just want to suggest that you rearticulate the process that's going to happen moving forward because when I had offered the suggestion of postponing for there to be dialogue,productive dialogue between community and the applicant, I think there was a lot of confusion around who would be leading that process and what the format would be. So as Chair of the committee, I nominate you to help hold space for that, if Page 29 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 that's okay? I trust your ability to facilitate these types of conversations, but I think it's really important that all parties are aware of who to turn to in this situation to lead us towards some planning efforts and conversations. Thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. With that, Council Member Hustace, are you okay with me being the point of contact for conversations between the community and the Metzler's? MR. HUSTACE: Yeah. Let's keep it singular because you're the Chair for committee here and work through you. I'm here to support you in this process so I'm definitely involved in this. Yes. Thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. Typically we would hold something that would be needing more work in Committee. Looking for some guidance here. I will be absent from the March 19t' Council meeting, which is causing me some hesitation if I'm going to lead that conversation: So whatdo folks think, hold it here or move it forward? MR. HUSTACE: Chair, we're going to haveto hold it here then. CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. ` MR. HUSTACE: Yup. CHR. KIMBALL: Can I get a motion to postpone to the 18t'? MR. INABA: I'm wondering if the IB' is adequate time for any meaningful dialogue to happen or if we need to postpone to the call of the chair and you can bring it back when you folks have agreed because we keep postponing, postponing to certain dates and we're not ready with any real solution. So I woul prefer to postpone to the call of the chair and see that something concrete comes back if it is to come back. CHR. KIMBALL: Okay. So I'm going to take that as Council Member Inaba making the motion to postpone to the call of the chair. Page 30 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 Vote on Motion Mr. Inaba moved to postpone Bill 198 to the call of the to Postpone: Chair. Seconded by Mr. Onishi and carried by the (Approved) following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Hustace, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kimball —7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Galimba and Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—2. Excused: None. CHR. KIMBALL: Before we move on,t6 the next item, so just for everybody here, I will be the point of contact for any suggestions. I'm going to ask that you get them to me within the week so we can start having this dialrigue actively between now and the next opportunity to meet. Mr. Clerk, if we can read in the companion bill and we'll do the same thing. ; ; and Bill 199: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-11 (LALAMILO-PU`UKAPU ZONE MAP), (Draft 2) ARTICLE 8, CHAPTER 25,(,ZONING CODE) OF THE HAWAI`I COUNTY (2022-2024) CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT CLASSIFICATION FROM AGRICULTURAL—5 ACRES (A-5a) TO RESIDENTIAL AGRICULTURAL 0.5 ACRES (RA-0.5a) AND NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL— 10,000 SQUARE FEET (CN-10) AT WAIMEA, SOUTH KOHALA, HAWAI`I, COVERED BY TAX MAP KEY: 6-4-024:027 (Applicant: Kaupulehu Land, LLC) (Area: 5.349 Acres) The Leeward'Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for this amendment to the State Land Use Boundaries Map and an unfavorable recommendation:for the requested change of zone, which would allow the applicant to subdivide the property into eight lots consisting of three retail/commercial lefts fronting Mamalahoa Highway and five residential agricultural lots. This property is located at 64-983 Mamalahoa Highway. Reference: Comm. 1015.52 Intr. by: Council Member Inaba(B/R) Postponed: September 16, October 15, 2024, January 7, and February 4, 2025 (Note: There is a motion by Council Member Kierkiewicz, seconded by Council Member Galimba, to recommend passage of Bill 199 on first reading.) Page 31 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 Vote on Motion Mr. Inaba moved to postpone Bill 199, Draft 2, to the call to Postpone: of the Chair. Seconded by Mr. Onishi and carried by the (Approved) following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Hustace, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kimball —7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Galimba and Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—2. Excused: None. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, guys, for being here and we'll be in touch. Very quickly, with that I'm going to give us a five-minute break andthen we'll come back to Bill 30. The time now is 12:19 p.m.; we'll come back at 12:25 p.m. We're in recess. Recess: At 12:19 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconverted at,12:28 p.m. CHR. KIMBALL: Alright, I'm goring to,call this meeting out of recess. If we can, Mr. Clerk, can I have you please read,in Bill 30? Folks in the back, we are starting up,again. Thank you. Bill 30: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-33 (CITY OF HILO ZONE MAP), ARTICLE 8, CHAPTER 25 (ZONING CODE) OF THE HAWAI`I COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE ZONE MAP CLASSIFICATION FROM SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL— 10,000 SQUARE FEET (RS-10) TO NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL— 10,000 SQUARE FEET(CN-10) AT WAIAKEA, SOUTH HILO, HAWAI`I, COVERED BY TAX MAP KEY: 2-2-036:113 (Applicant: Jack Vanderhoff, Jr. and Sau-Yin Yeung) (Area: 19,500 square feet) The Windward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for the requested change of zone, which would allow the applicant to convert the existing dwelling to use as an accounting business office. This property is located at 900 Manono Street. Reference: Comm. 157 Intr. by: Council Member Kimball (B/R) and Comm. 157.1: From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated February 21, 2025, transmitting a PowerPoint presentation for Bill 30. Page 32 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 (Note: Comm. 157.2, from Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated March 3, 2025, transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 30, was circulated.) Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend passage of Bill 30 on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Onishi. CHR. KIMBALL: With that I will ask the Planning Department and the applicant if they have a presentation for us. Go ahead. (Note: At this time, Planning Director Jeffrey Darrow came forward and provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or onlineat http://hawaiicounty.gov.grantcus.com. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 157.1.) CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Director, Any additional comments from the applicant before we begin deliberations?, , (Note: At this time, Planning Consultant Daryn Arai and the Applicant, Jack Vanderhoff, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. ARAI: Good afternoon, Chair Kimball,Vice Chair Onishi, and members of the Committee, My name is Daryn Arai, Planning Consultant assisting the applicants, Jack Vanderhoff, Jr.,who's sitting to my right and behind him his wife,,Sou-Yin Yeung. The request by and of itself is hopefully straightforward as the Director's presentation demonstrated. Changed this property to a commercial zoningdistrict really to allow the applicant to proceed with the renovation of an existing single-family home so his wife, who's a practicing accountant, can conduct her business on the subject property. I kind of worked out very well for them simply because her lease at their current location on;Railroad Avenue is ending in about a year and a half or so and they have actively been looking for the right space for her and her employees. And it was difficult. It was either what was readily available in Hilo was either too small or simply too big for their needs. And happen stance, they became aware of this property being made available for sale. They looked into it and figured out that it would suit their needs very, very, well. Mr. Vanderhoff has mentioned to me on several occasions that during tax season, which we are right in the midst of tax season right now, he pretty much becomes a bachelor. You know, the wife is constantly working, trying to take care of her clients. This home will provide her an opportunity where she can have a place where she can conduct her work, but also a place where she can feel safe but not have to simply run home each and every day. So again, it's a situation that works out well for them. Page 33 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 The property itself is situated within an area supported by the General Plan for commercial uses as it resides along the Manono Street arterial. And as you can see from the zone district map that we have up on the screen, it is located within the area that has seen transition to other similar zoning districts. So you can view this proposed request as simply like an infield type of opportunity. So with that, we accept the conditions as presented in Bill 30. Thank you very much. CHR. KIMBALL: Alright. Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. And,thank you for the presentation, Director, and for being here with the applicants. I'm a little bit concerned, which I just spoke to Mr. Arai about. If I were A,neighbor living'iri'this neighborhood and being next door to these properties that are getting rezoned J mean, I wouldn't be particularly concerned about a tax office. But once we rezone to this neighborhood commercial then we have opened,it up for other uses, So Planning Director, can you just go over those agar. Sorry. Just for the public and everybody here that if this were to be rezoned to neighborhood commercial, what are the potential uses that are allowable then? MR. DARROW: Basically, any type of commercial use. Commercial neighborhood encompasses any retail, any restaurant, offices, those types of commercial uses that you'll see. The intention of this particular area of Waiakea House tots has been in transition for some time. In the General Plan of 2005, it was very,specific in the plan about this particular transition in regard to where, as it goes through,this transition, where they want to see commercial uses and they identified those areas being around the major corridors of Manono, Lanikaula, those particular main streets. On the inner streets they were looking more at multiple family type uses. But even though the entire area shows medium density urban that could allow for commercial. The General Plan was very specific as to where to identify specific uses. This has been a pretty constant request over the years, the rezoning from residential to commercial neighborhood in this particular area. We haven't received much opposition from areas. Every so often we will but it normally is approved with some adjustment to accommodate. MS. KAGIWADA: Right. And the neighbors know that with an approval here that they could get a bar or a restaurant right next door to them? MR.DARROW: I can't answer if the neighbors are aware of that. They're made aware of the application and the request through the notification process. But that's what a change of zone does as we all speak to many times, it's not a specific request. Even if the applicant comes in with that, we look at it as a range of requests or a range of uses. MS. KAGIWADA: Right. Right. Well so I guess my comment doesn't have anything to do with this particular applicant or what they're trying to do, it's more Page 34 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 to planning around, you know, this whole neighborhood and it being residential. You know, having a lot of residential properties there and how that relates back to our Downtown Hilo area and our other commercial spaces that need revitalization, need more people in them, need more businesses down there. I just get concerned when our planning continues to identify ways we grow out without necessarily prioritizing us concentrating on the existing spaces first before. I mean, I realize you have to look many years, decades, out when you're looking at this, so you do need to identify, you know, what`are the places for growth. But when the growth happens and it starts to feel like sprawl as opposed to, you know, we've already got an area that's thriving and,full and,We need this growth to accommodate more business or commercial areas. It's very different than if we have a lot of spaces and the downtown area isn't very, you know, vital and a lot going on there. So I just want to pull that attention to you as the Director of Planning and as we're, you know,working on these many different plans for our community. Like I said, it's not necessarily specific about this applicant, but I do once again, if I were living next door or even on this block, I would want to understand what this means to rezone this. MR. DARROW: Yeah. I,do hear you and I think all of us who work doing what we do here understand that"picture. Unless the public is engaged, they probably don't have that understanding. Butin regard to this particular matter of Waiakea House lots, as I mentioned'this as been,an area identified to transition from residential to commercial. And that doesn't mean that we go in and we just change'the zoning all at once. It just says this is appropriate. With that direction from the General,Plan there has been a tremendous amount of improvements done in this area to infrastructure, manly Manono Street. They've redone Manono Streetto put curb gutter sidewalks, new paving; there's water, there's sewer. This is the appropriate area.to allow for higher density type uses. MS:KAGIWADA: Okay. So that's helping businesses. But you said, like multi- family,is being considered or encouraged in the other areas but we're not necessarily doing those same level of improvements that would actually encourage people to do that multi-family housing in those areas. Is that correct? MR. DARROW: Normally what will happen is people will look at it higher picture. They'll see that it's medium density urban and they'll say I want to do commercial. I'm looking at purchasing this lot, which is in an interior area, and we will let them know that unfortunately if you're going to try to go to commercial for commercial uses, it would be inconsistent with the direction of the General Plan through the courses of standards within the General Plan. We encourage growth. There haven't been a lot of people coming in to do the interior type rezoning. They focus on those main areas. Page 35 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Planning Director. I appreciate that. And to the applicants,just wondering what has been your outreach to the neighbors and your feedback if you have any? MR. VANDERHOFF: My name is Jack Vanderhoff and it's actually the wife's accounting office and I'm just, you know, I'm just the significant other. But we hired him because he knows what has to be done in the community and how to outreach to the people that are impacted. MS. KAGIWADA: Have you had any responses? MR. VANDERHOFF: We've had a couple. MR. ARAI: Daryn Arai. Maybe I can speak to that more succinctly. Right across the street, one lady, I think like two houses to the north; the-,lady reached out to me. She expressed concern for similar reasons like commercial uses sort of like intruding into the neighborhood. So I dick ask,her exactly which lot she lives on and then she said, "Oh, I don't live there. I have two homes that are rentals. I live several streets away." So I did encourage,her to engage but I also kind of mentioned to her that from this particular use, and we're not speaking about the broader land use policies that you're talking about is that the proposed request is probably the best opportunity or the best„type of use for this property. The home is going to be used for an accountant office. Generally business hours are from eight to five or something on that order and basically the shutdown. Except maybe during tax year they have to work into the night. So the potential for noise, traffic impacts will basically end at the close of business day. Unlike if you have residential type of uses, noises can go late into the late hours depending on the type of neighbors you have. In addition with commercial zoning since it will bound with existing residential uses, they are compelled to providing landscaping and noise mitigation improvements pursuant to the County's landscaping rule. Se that's something that's going to be required especially for the parking lot in the back. The neighbor directly adjacent to the north of this property also contacted me. There were concerns. They provided testimony. I think it's park of your record. And they were concerned about the type of uses so we tried to explain that there are going to be these types of mitigating measures and how I'll also explain to them the nature of the use, and I encouraged them to, you know, reach out but I haven't heard anything further since or seen any other additional testimony since. I did kind of take a look at the surrounding area especially that property adjacent to the north and I did note that there seems to be some sort of business over there. I think it's like a copier repair business, but I'm not sure, you know, because records may be dated or whatever. But I just wanted to get a sense. There's a lot of improvements on those buildings on that adjoining property to the north and Page 36 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 I'm not exactly sure what's happening there. But they are more than willing to address and comply with the County's requirements to mitigate the impacts. And I think the nature of the use itself should fit well within the community. Finally, sorry for being so winded about this. If you're concerned about this property being utilized for higher and better use, it's going to be a struggle because of the proximity to the Leilani Street intersection, there's a turning lane or a dedicated left turn lane with striping. The County is allowing for full turning movements from that property but only if that driveway approach is placed on the northern extreme of the property. Mr. Vanderhoff took a look at the property and unfortunately there is a sewer and waterm Ain,connection right at that location, which means the cost of digging everything up. So there preference is to keep it where the driveway approach is now. But because of the left turn turning lane, it's restricted to right in and right out only, and that's going to make it difficult for any other business that depends on, you know, frequent clientele visits. The benefit of Mrs. Yeung's accounting lousiness is so much of it is done,online nowadays and that is why client visitations should not be a problem. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Great. Well I'm sorry that I didn't reach out before this, I was away for work,: But I will be supporting at this time, but I will like to reach out to some of my constituents in the neighborhood between meetings and just get some feedback from them'direetly, and maybe you can help me with who you've talked to already. MR,ARAL Thanks. MS'KAGIWAI)A: Okay. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Council Member Onishi. MR. ONISHL Thank you, Madam Chair. Just one note. It would've been nice if you folks had reached out to the Council Members in that area because Manono is the dividing line of our districts in two and three. And so that wouldn't make us more prepared to know what is going on, right, and then the questions we could've asked you folks on what's going on, you know, and what kind of responses. Yeah so, Manono Street, that's the dividing line for the districts. So on'the mauka side of Manono, that's District 2, and then I'm on the makai side. MR. ARAI: Our apologies for that. MR. ONISHL Yeah, you know, in the future if you folks ever what you call. I had a question for Director Darrow. So listening to Ms. Kagiwada's concerns about the use of that property I remember back when I was on the Council, we had an applicant come in to do residential and like it was more like apartments. Page 37 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 They mentioned that it was going to be used for student housing for the university, but customers were concerned that they could do something else once we give them the approval. So we had in there a condition where it had to stay for the university housing for university students for ten years. Is there a possibility of putting a condition in there on making sure, I guess, bars, restaurants and, you know, certain businesses are not allowed in that area because of the concerns of the community? MR. DARROW: Thank you, Vice Chair Onishi. We discourage that type of conditioning on change of zones and the reason Why is we get into almost like where people refer to a spot zoning but it's more like almost a conditional use and instead of zoning, right. We have use permits for conditional type use. We have special permits, and those are very specific to a specific use' Zoning is never meant to be used for a specific use. It's meant to provide that type of flexibility. With that being said, there have been conditions placed in ordinances in the past by the Council when they have concerns. But again, Planning has always discouraged that. And it's just again,that's in our sense it's becoming a type of conditional use permit instead of zoning. MR. ONISHL Okay. Thank you very much for that. MR. DARROW: Thank you. MR. ONISHI: So I'll kind of leave it up to'the Council Member in the district if she would 1ike,to consider doing something about it. But, you know, I've seen too where applicants come in, they got the zoning of what they needed and then they roll it over right, and then from there we have no clue of what's going on right, because the process was already done. But I trust the applicant, I trust your consultant on you folks are saying you're going to be doing. But I guess for Council Member Kagiwada and myself since we border that line, that's where, you know, lator on if something does happen then we've got to answer to our constituents, right: Yeah. And so I'll kind of leave it up to Ms. Kagiwada and then see how it goes. Thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Onishi. Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Yeah, thank you. Mr. Arai, being that a specific use for the accounting business is being proposed,just wondering why it's been selected to go with a rezone rather than a special use permit, is that something that could've been done instead? MR. ARAI: Thank you for the question. The type of use, there's no permit that is available to accommodate that type of use. So rezoning is really their only option. A use permit only allows certain uses as expressed in the Zoning Code, Page 38 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 things like medical clinics, schools, and churches. But beyond those listed uses, yeah. MR. INABA: Okay. Thank you very much. Chair, I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. I just got back, and I d6want to make a disclosure on this particular piece because Kani is CPA (Certified Public Accountant) and this being tax season, it's especially top of mind.',And I believe I can make a decision that is impartial despite that fact, but I leave itto my colleagues to say they're okay with that. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. And I'm okay with that and I think everybody else is. Anything over there with you, Council Member Villegas? MS. VILLEGAS: No, other than to say that I appreciate the line of questioning from my colleagues and the Council Members that represent this district and it being kind of the line between the two districts. So enjoying and appreciating the questions and conversation and exploration of other potential alternatives. I share a number of the concerns that have been brought up: So with that, I yield. CHR KIMBALL: Thank you, Alright. Any further comments here? Seeing none. You know,just to Council Member Onishi's point, while it might be sort of improper to restrict the uses I do recall that we have a property, similar kind of concerns where we mentioned like a quiet hour time period or that there wouldn't be noise making activities after a certain period of time which might be a way to appease the concerns about there being something that wouldI mean, that's usually the disruption that commercial space would cause. But you know, I just:wanted to say more broadly, one of the reasons why we don't see as much redevelopment in the downtown area is because it's now designated#loodplain, and you can't get flood insurance and all of that. And so as we're thinking about plan migration away from the shoreline, the Manono corridor is'probably one of those areas where we're going to see infill of commercial activities. You know,property like this is outside of that floodplain area and it's something that we're going to have to think about generally as we move forward. So with that, seeing no further comments, all those in favor of movingI'm sorry, there's an amendment. A clerical amendment, if I can have somebody make that motion for me? Motion to Amend: Mr. Inaba moved to amend Bill 30 with the contents of Comm. 157.2. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada. Page 39 LAAC-5 March 6,2025 CHR. KIMBALL: This is housekeeping just to align the language of the rezoning ordinance to the new language in our Code. Hopefully, I think the last one that will need this amendment. But the applicant is aware of this, and I believe has no objection. So, any comments on the amendment? Alright, seeing none. All those in favor please say "aye." Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 30 with the contents of to Amend: Comm. 157.2 was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Oniishi, Villegas, and Chair Kimball —8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— I. Excused: None. CHR. KIMBALL: Back to the main motion,Bill 30, as amended; all those in favor please say "aye." Vote on Bill 30: The motion to recommend passage of'Bill 30, as amended (Approved) to Draft 2, on first reading was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kimball —8. Noes: None. Absent; Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1. Excused' None. CHR, KIMBALL;, With that, there's no further business on our agenda and I will call this meeting to,a close. ADJOURN' There being no further business, Chair Kimball adjourned the meeting MENT: at 12:59 p,tn. Approved: Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair (Date) Legislative Approvals and Acquisitions Committee HI/tk Page 40