HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2025/06/03 (2024-2026) DRAFT +Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
llth Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
June 3, 2025
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and
ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 10:01 a.m., in the Council Chambers,
Hilo, by Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Mr. James E. Hustacey Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba,Member
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi,Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals;registered to speak and came forward when called
by the Chair:'
Debbie Hecht: Comm. 304, comment.
Debra Ward: Comm. 304, comment.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Mr. Brown, would you please read in
Communication 304.
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
GOEAC-I I June 3,2025
Comm. 304: REQUESTS THE FORMATION OF AN AD HOC COMMITTEE TO
REVIEW AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO IMPROVE THE
PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL RESOURCES
PRESERVATION COMMISSION'S PROCESS OF IDENTIFYING
AND PRIORITIZING LAND TO BE ACQUIRED BY THE COUNTY
From Council Member Michelle Galimba dated May 14, 2025.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Galimba moved to close file on Comm:�304.
Seconded by Ms. Kimball.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Galimba, go ahead.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. This follows on our recent discussions around this
PONC (Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation
Commission) funding prioritizationx;and I'm a huge fan of PONC.' But also, can
see how there are potentially are ways that it,,could work better. So, I wanted to
have the opportunity to explore that with whoever of my fellow Council Members
might be interested in this topic.
I really appreciate the interestfrom some of the folks, Debra Ward and Debbie
Hecht, who have also been very involved in the PONC process and will definitely
be meeting with them as well as with other stakeholders such as the PONC
committee current and former potentially landowners who have worked with
PONCE current stewards of PONC land who have gone through the process, and
others as we go along and figure out, you know, whose experiences we need to tap.
So,just seeing who else might want to be on this committee with me. Yes, thanks,
Ad Hoc and,PONC. Who'might`want to be on the Ad Hoc committee with me
after we have discussion.
CHR.KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Anybody with questions or
comments. Council Member Onishi.
MR. ONISHL Thank you, Chair. Madame Chair, questions for Ms. Galimba. So,
I need more details about what this Ad Hoc committee is going to be responsible
for. Because to my knowledge, I think, when we created it back then when I was
on'the Council with the past Council Members, I think we were trying to keep the
Council Members out of the discussions and out of, I guess, rating the different
properties and so forth.
So, we as a Council and a body would respond or vote on what PONC gave to us.
So, we would have nothing to do, really, within the selection of which properties.
So, kind of kept it unbiased.
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So, it's kind of how we have with the Salary Commission. Like the Salary
Commission decides on what the salaries should be, and we as the body can either
accept or don't accept. But it becomes law, right?
So, to me, to keep this out of the hands of this body, I think would be better than
if we don't support. Because then, now we're going to start getting involved in
making decisions for the commission, right? It's my opinion, and I just can see
what can happen.
Just like, for example, for the Waiwai we have four members, but the other
Council Members are allowed to review. But we're basically the ones that's
going to make the last decisions on who gets what.
Now, for the grant money that we provided for the homelessness, the $10.5
(million), we really didn't have a say. But that tome is a different story, because
the Council got the money for this homelessness. But as we see, Bess, the
process for those awarding wasn't hitting those top priorities that they had set
back then when they had that study. So; tome, I don't think we should.
Maybe we can have comments from Debbie,because she's been there for a long
time doing this. Was that why this PONC committee was created?
CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member,do you want to get out all your comments
and questions?
MR:ONISHI: So, I just want her to talk about how this committee was created
by the Council back then.
CHR KAGIWADA: Okay. Then you also asked the maker of this, what their
vision is for what this Ad Hoc committee would work on, right? Okay, thank
you, Do we Have Ms. Hecht still on? No, okay. Council Member, please address
the issue..
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you, Council Member Onishi. Yes. So, I'm not
planning to advocate that we become involved in the ranking. I think I would be
on the table to discuss how to make this process potentially work better.
T don't think that taking it away from the PONC commission, in my opinion,
would not be a good idea. I think that works great as it is. I mean community
voices, the more the better rather than centralizing it to us. So, for me, that's not
my intention with this. But it is to look at how to make it work better. And so,
it's more on that level rather than getting into those kinds of details.
MR. ONISHL I support that. But I think it should be in this communication that
part being written down so it's clear what the scope of this Ad Hoc committee
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will be doing. And if it's written down, then I would support it. Thank you. But
I agree that's a great idea that you have.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. First of all, I think the PONC program is something
that this County should really be proud of. Just looking at the opportunities for
protection of open space across the State, we really bind of set the bar of a
program.
As we've discussed previous legislation before this Council, you know, we have a
number of things on the PONC list that have been approved by this Council to
acquire. And so, there is probably a need to refine the system. So, I appreciate
the opportunity to evaluate and review the functionality, which:is the language in
here, for the program.
Some of the concerns, in particular, are the timeliness of decision-making around
the program. You know, we do have properties that come on the market that
where we want to try to go for them through PONC, the turnaround time through
the process is really constrained to get those properties.
The other issue is how we are going to over the long-term as we acquire more and
more properties, continue to sustain the funding for the maintenance portion.
Because the more properties we acquire,the more funding is required for
stewardship; and we have a limit on that. So, I think looking at bringing in some
other sources of funding into the stewardship program is something that we might
want to consider.
Then finally,T think we can do more to offer support to the stewards in terms of
coming up with a management plan, really identifying the business needs of the
stewardship organizations;just bringing a little more professionalism to that
process so that we'can,insure that these places that we've acquired using public
dollars Eire really being maintained to the standards that we intend as a body.
So, you know, I'm happy to be part of this discussion. And I really do appreciate
both Debbie's and actually, Debra Chang as well,who's been on the commission
and has provided a lot of recommendations to me over the years as well. I think
they've been great advocates for this program and would like to interact with
them more on what their recommendations are. Thank you.
CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Kimball. Council Member
Hustace.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Would it be appropriate to ask a couple
questions to administrative staff at this time?
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CHR. KAGIWADA: Yes, absolutely.
MR. HUSTACE: Could I ask the Director of Finance, Diane Nakagawa?
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Diane Nakagawa came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. NAKAGAWA: Good morning Council Members, Diane Nakagawa, Finance.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Director. The question I really have, and it came up
in some of the testimonies about staffing. If you could just speak to that question
first and how we're doing with the support that you need, that the commission
needs to pursue the acquisition lands.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Yes, absolutely. You know,we are painfully aware of the
staffing shortage that we have,in Property Management. It is an extremely rough
time with the vacancies we have in this'division:'We have a position that would
support PONC that has been advertised for a while. We have not had candidates.
We have another one that we're allocating to provide more support to this
program.
Over the last year we have spent a lot of time evaluating the needs of this program
and definitely understand staffing and resources: More staffing and resources is
needed just as commission members have stated. So, we a hundred percent agree.
We have reallocated a position to create a position that has higher responsibilities
of the program, and that should be out as well.
We can'advertise these positions,but we do need to have candidates. So, we're
working with other,options and incentives. But we are trying to get it filled, and
e understand that is a hurdle right now that we are dealing with within Finance.
And itcomes'at a time when we have been prioritizing looking at this program and
making ittbetter,both in the stewardship and in the acquisition and working with
the commission to improve the process and provide better education. It does come
at the same time we're facing challenges and resources.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you Director. The second question may also relate to
Deputy, Corporation Jean Campbell. It's really about, you know, with this effort
from the Council and the challenges you have with staffing and the work the
commission does. Would this help to overcome some of those hurdles in terms of
how we best identify that process?
Because Deputy Corporation Counsel Campbell, I had a brief conversation with
you after the last PONC commission about prioritization. And sometimes that may
actually come from the Mayoral side and executive side through the discussion.
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And you had mentioned that past efforts were taken by the Mayor to kind of
reassess items on the list. Is that still something that's undertaken or would this
effort support that as well?
(Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Jean Campbell
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. CAMPBELL: Good morning everybody, Deputy Corporation Counsel
Jean Campbell. I haven't spoken at length at all with Council Member Galimba
about the intent for this committee that you want to form.
It's my general understanding that it's to take a look at overall, how does the
PONC progress functions and find ways that it can be more efficient; find ways
that it can be more responsive to the commentary and suggestions that we get from
the community.
So, I think to the extent that my understanding is correct, that would be worthy
effort to undertake. I think it could be very,possible for not only for this body but
for the community as a whole to come to a better understanding of how it's
currently working and to help„us find ways to,make it more efficient and to try and
figure out who's the right body to address the various commentaries that the
commission receives.
Because the commission does receive an awful lot a commentary that is really
outside'ofthe scope of their own authority. Staffing, right? I mean the
commission can't do anything about that. And the Finance Director has told us the
positions were advertised. So, basically, the County is doing what we can.
So, to me,without understanding exactly what it is that Council Member Galimba
has in minds Uo think that forming a group to look at all of these issues and to try
and help the commission and the Finance Department find a better way, if there is
a bettex way, could be useful.
I think part of that would be helping everybody to understand how the process
works from'start to finish today, which includes, you know, as I think you're all
well aware, the priority list that we have. So, everything that the commission over
the last 20 years or so has approved essentially for purchase exists. It's very long.
And to help everybody understand what that list means and what do we do with
that list. I think to the extent that's something that commission is thinking about
looking into, I think that could be helpful.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Ms. Campbell. And Council Member Onishi, I
appreciate your insight and creating those different barriers between the work of
the commission, but also recognize the challenge and hurdles we have in staffing
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and the funds that are sitting there; they're capped out. I know that we're not
really talking about the maintenance, but that's been capped out as well.
So, how do we help with that entire process? Happy to support this and be a part
of it, and be a witness, I will. So, thank you. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Hustace. Anybody else?
Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Having been an advocate for this program since its inception
and thankful to Debbie Hecht and the deputies who worked on this. And I want
to take a moment just to validate how far we have come with the PONC process.
When I first got into office, Parks and Rec was still trying to manage the
allocation of the maintenance funds to the nonprofits and cultural,organizations
working on taking care of these properties and were years behind, causing major
challenges for deadlines for organizations to give reporting on how they spent
funds, but the funds had never been given°to them yet.
So, we had some real challenges with that. Anctthe transition to finance greatly
improved that process, the procedure, and the actual viability of getting these
organizations the funds that they need in order to des the maintenance work of
these properties. So, I just want to give kudos where kudos is due in that.
Is there still ppportunity for the program to improve? Yes. And I believe
improvement would be most effective by supporting those who are tasked
actually run the program, and we°don't have enough people to even run the
program right now, quite frankly,; adding more burden directly to Finance, which
I'll say is one of the challenges Isee for a lot of the policies we were exploring
here sound great if we had a fully staffed department and divisions to run them.
So, t want to justmake sure we're not micromanaging something that's hanging
on by a thread to keep what's happening there functioning. Because it's easy to
look at something and say, this needs to change, this needs to change, and this
needs to change. But until we get the bodies to implement the processes,
procedures that are there. My heart goes out to you guys on that.
Sei,I think it would be beneficial to especially the public to understand the PONC
process. Currently, in negotiations for PONC property in District 7, and having
had a number of properties go without purchase under prior Administrations. It's
this dance, right, or urgency and ease; and understanding capacity for what can be
done. So, there's a real dance in all of this.
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But I think we had about transitioning the approval process of the PONC list into
one approval as opposed to each individual property coming separately, the
intention was to remove more of that paperwork and timeline change.
It doesn't change the fact that we as Council Members when properties come on
that PONC list, especially the new list, or if we hear of anything that's happened
with properties that had been on the old list and resolutions had been already
passed, nothing precludes us from approaching Administration and Department of
Finance to prioritize those properties. And that's that relationship opportunity we
all have with our districts and the property owners.
So, I suppose, Council Member Onishi, I believe,was asking for in Ad Hoc
formation. And perhaps, Mr. Clerk, you can help identify; are there specific
requirements when formation of anAd Hoc of what the purpose and what the
outcomes are anticipated to be. Because based on that then we have a specific
role and obligation, and we can check those things off.
An overall assessment of something, bu What would you call this, a department
or a division? That's more of doing an audit.,-You know that makes me think
more of an audit. So, I suppose for me, I want to be in support of this, but I'd
want to see just because to'discuss, evaluate, and review the functionality of the
PONC process and legislation prior to introduction at Council, I don't know that
we need an Ad Hoc to do that. I think We might be able to get that accomplished
without an Ad Hoc. But those are just where my brain is bouncing around right
now.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member, I'm wondering, that seems almost more
like alegal question. Would you like Corporation Counsel to answer?
MS. VILLE6AS: Sure, thatwould be great. Thank you.
MS. CAMPBELL; I may need to defer to Renee on this. I am not familiar with
an Ad Hoc as something separate from a permitted interaction group. So, I can
tell you about a permitted action group that is allowed under the Sunshine Law. If
an Ad Hoc'committee is in fact a different animal, I'm going to have to defer to
Renee on that one.
CHIR. KAGIWADA: Corporation Counsel Schoen, thank you for joining us.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Renee Schoen
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SCHOEN: Good morning, Renee Schoen, Corporation Counsel. I'm so
sorry, could you repeat the question?
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MS. VILLEGAS: Sure. Quick question about this potential formation of an Ad
Hoc committee to review the PONC. The scope of the work is listed as discuss,
evaluate and review the functionality of the PONC process and legislation prior to
introduction at Council.
My question is, when forming an Ad Hoc, is there a legal requirement that it has
-
I seem to remember through Ad Hocs, they have to have specific outcomes that are
aimed for to report back on. As opposed to an overall review of a process.
MS. SCHOEN: I'm not sure.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, clear as mud?
MS. SCHOEN: Yeah, I would just think thebest result would dictate that it be
more specific. I don't know if I'm helping or contributing.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. I just wondered for the overall intentionality of an Ad
Hoc. I just remember being way more`formal and kinder of intimidating by, you
had to have specific outcomes. Otherwise, it's a just a means to have
conversations and get pass; Sunshine Law, right, like you'd have to have specific
outcomes.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member,the Clerk has some information to share.
`(Note; At this time, County Clerk Jon Henricks came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. ENRICKS: Mello, good morning, Jon Henricks, County Clerk. So,
understanding from your initial question; your description and your question now.
The scope must be established or fully defined at the time of establishment, which
is now. So, if the committee doesn't feel that the scope is not specific enough, as
described in the communication, then that's an issue. You can't go beyond the
scope.
So, oftentimes when an Ad Hoc were permitted interaction group which is
synonymous or formed, it'll be intentionally broad to provide more leeway to
allow that group to maybe not delve into things that weren't anticipated
necessarily, but not be restricted when it comes time to do its work.
The further you define the scope in detail and specifics, the more boundaries that
are then applied to that Ad Hoc committee because it's operating outside of the
Sunshine Law.
So, if it appears intentional by Committee Member Galimba to make this
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broad-scoped to give that room. But if this committee isn't satisfied, it can ask for
a new communication that would provide more detail as to what the purpose of Ad
Hoc would be. That's an option too.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Villegas, do you have anything else, or do
you yield?
MS. VILLEGAS: Then after the Ad Hoc meets, there is timeframe designated to
that Ad Hoc meeting.
MR. HENRICKS: There actually isn't. It's just as long as it takes or sometimes
things don't even happen necessarily. Not that this would be one of those times.
MS. VILLEGAS: No, but it's been known to happen. And'then,the reporting
back is kind of the closing part of that to report back the findings.,
MR. HENRICKS: Eventually, if there are any'findings and recommendations,
they will be brought before this committee. And at that time, the Ad Hoc would
dissolve and no longer be allowed to meet outside of the Sunshine Law. And then,
this committee or any future Committees or Council could then use those
recommendations or findings to take policy action:
MS. VILLEGAS: Great. Thank you for helping me clarify. Appreciate it.
Alright,I yield at this time. Thank you.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else before I go back to Council
Member Onishf 'Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to have this
discussion. I actually hadon my calendar to convene a PONC summit in the Fall;
having;helped'a number of nonprofit organizations navigate the stewardship
process; accessing those funds, and then myself working with community
members to actually apply to suggest some properties for acquisition.
It's quite a labyrinth to navigate, and there are, I think, a lot of opportunities; room
for improvement on the community side on the County side. I'm going to suggest
perhaps reworking this communication because I'm not incredibly clear on what
the scope is.
I'm hearing it being described today, but when I read what's here on paper,
functionality of the PONC process legislation prior to introduction to Council.
What came to mind for me was a couple of meetings ago where we had discussed
a resolution that included all of the properties that were recently on the
recommendation list. I thought that was the scope of the discussion, but it seems
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to be a lot broader than that, looking at the nomination, the prioritization, and also
the maintenance piece.
So, I would suggest that be written so that members of the public are extremely
clear on what is going to be discussed by this body. And then also to identifying
outcome.
If the idea is to make recommendations for a Code update, or a Charter
amendment, or internal procedures, I think that need's to be explicitly stated so that
the work of the Ad Hoc can be focused. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anybody else?
Council Member Onishi, back to you.
MR. ONISHL Thank you, Madame Chair. Just to give members,a little brief
history of how this was created: My,understanding was it was under Parks and
Rec because of the property that we were acquiring.was in recreational places. But
the problem was, and it's the same with Finance is saying, they couldn't find
employees. And Parks and Rec also didn't have the capabilities of doing that
Finance part, or even to keep track of the nonprofits. It was going outrageous back
then when I was there.
These guys would come year after year asking for this chunk of money, and some
of the stuff would be like the same stuff they asked for the previous years. But
there was nobody there to continue to monitor all the inventory that was being put
out. So, I guess through the years; then now the Council Members' body changes
over to Finance, which is a better place. But like I said, back then I think it was
because it was under Recreation. The property that we were acquiring was in
recreational places; right?
The other thing,' !just want to make it clear, funding can be provided with what we
have. But it's the property owner that needs to agree. So, if the property owner
doesn't agree to what that appraised value is then it won't get sold. And I think I
had that discussion with the Finance Director the last time about getting resources.
If a nonprofit wants to get this certain property, to be on PONC, and if the
appraisal value is at this certain rate and the owner doesn't want to sell, then that
nonprofit needs to think outside the box and try to see if they can get more funding
from other resources and use that to help offset that cost. So, that's why there's so
many different other groups out there that does provide funding to purchase these
public open space lands, right? And that's what we will look. We cannot just
depend on what the County is offering, right?
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So, I'm just mentioning that and giving some history of what the process was
back then when we approved this PONC committee and the process. But if you
can clarify your communication, I'll totally support it.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Onishi. Council Member
Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: I'm going to join my colleagues in saying, I think there's an
opportunity perhaps to refine the language a little bit in this communication,
and I'm happy to work with you on that. But I'm actually reading it again based
on what Council Member Kierkiewicz said. T think the scope is potentially
narrower than we need it to be to really have a meaningful discussion. So, I
would suggest a new communication with a little bit more detail. Thanks.
CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, Seeing no,other lights, Council Member
Galimba back to you for where you want to go with this.
MS. GALIMBA: I'm happy to withdraw,it and bring it back. I think there is
going to need to be a,certain amount of broadness to it, as Council Member
Kierkiewicz put it. So,I will work on getting a better balance of detail and
broadness so that we can have the best possible committee.
CHR KAGIWADA: Okay, are you withdrawing it?
MR,BROWN: Excuse me, Madame Chair, I think a cleaner way to deal with the
motion on the floor is just vote on it. It's just a communication. So, if you could
close file on this communication here and then bring a brand-new communication
when you're ready, Council Member Galimba.
CHR KAGIWADA: Is that'amenable to you Council Member?
MS. GALIMBA: Sure, although I'm probably going to vote for my own
communication because it's mine.
CHR KAGIWADA: Okay, with that, all those in favor in closing file? Any
opposed?
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Vote on Comm. 304: The motion to close file on Comm. 304 was carried by the
Filed following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kagiwada—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneah'i-Kleirifelder— 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. KAGIWADA: And with that, we come to the end of the Government
Operations and External Affairs Committee at 10:41 a.m. Our next committee
meeting will start shortly. Thank you.
ADJOURN- Seeing no further business, Chair,Kagiwada adjourned the meeting,at
MENT: 10:41 a.m.
Approved:
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair (Date)
Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
JK/dt
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