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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2025/06/03 (2024-2026) DRAFT +Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs llth Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii June 3, 2025 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 10:01 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. James E. Hustacey Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba,Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi,Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals;registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair:' Debbie Hecht: Comm. 304, comment. Debra Ward: Comm. 304, comment. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Mr. Brown, would you please read in Communication 304. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. GOEAC-I I June 3,2025 Comm. 304: REQUESTS THE FORMATION OF AN AD HOC COMMITTEE TO REVIEW AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO IMPROVE THE PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL RESOURCES PRESERVATION COMMISSION'S PROCESS OF IDENTIFYING AND PRIORITIZING LAND TO BE ACQUIRED BY THE COUNTY From Council Member Michelle Galimba dated May 14, 2025. Motion to Close File: Ms. Galimba moved to close file on Comm:�304. Seconded by Ms. Kimball. CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Galimba, go ahead. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. This follows on our recent discussions around this PONC (Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Commission) funding prioritizationx;and I'm a huge fan of PONC.' But also, can see how there are potentially are ways that it,,could work better. So, I wanted to have the opportunity to explore that with whoever of my fellow Council Members might be interested in this topic. I really appreciate the interestfrom some of the folks, Debra Ward and Debbie Hecht, who have also been very involved in the PONC process and will definitely be meeting with them as well as with other stakeholders such as the PONC committee current and former potentially landowners who have worked with PONCE current stewards of PONC land who have gone through the process, and others as we go along and figure out, you know, whose experiences we need to tap. So,just seeing who else might want to be on this committee with me. Yes, thanks, Ad Hoc and,PONC. Who'might`want to be on the Ad Hoc committee with me after we have discussion. CHR.KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Anybody with questions or comments. Council Member Onishi. MR. ONISHL Thank you, Chair. Madame Chair, questions for Ms. Galimba. So, I need more details about what this Ad Hoc committee is going to be responsible for. Because to my knowledge, I think, when we created it back then when I was on'the Council with the past Council Members, I think we were trying to keep the Council Members out of the discussions and out of, I guess, rating the different properties and so forth. So, we as a Council and a body would respond or vote on what PONC gave to us. So, we would have nothing to do, really, within the selection of which properties. So, kind of kept it unbiased. Page 2 GOEAC-I I June 3,2025 So, it's kind of how we have with the Salary Commission. Like the Salary Commission decides on what the salaries should be, and we as the body can either accept or don't accept. But it becomes law, right? So, to me, to keep this out of the hands of this body, I think would be better than if we don't support. Because then, now we're going to start getting involved in making decisions for the commission, right? It's my opinion, and I just can see what can happen. Just like, for example, for the Waiwai we have four members, but the other Council Members are allowed to review. But we're basically the ones that's going to make the last decisions on who gets what. Now, for the grant money that we provided for the homelessness, the $10.5 (million), we really didn't have a say. But that tome is a different story, because the Council got the money for this homelessness. But as we see, Bess, the process for those awarding wasn't hitting those top priorities that they had set back then when they had that study. So; tome, I don't think we should. Maybe we can have comments from Debbie,because she's been there for a long time doing this. Was that why this PONC committee was created? CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member,do you want to get out all your comments and questions? MR:ONISHI: So, I just want her to talk about how this committee was created by the Council back then. CHR KAGIWADA: Okay. Then you also asked the maker of this, what their vision is for what this Ad Hoc committee would work on, right? Okay, thank you, Do we Have Ms. Hecht still on? No, okay. Council Member, please address the issue.. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you, Council Member Onishi. Yes. So, I'm not planning to advocate that we become involved in the ranking. I think I would be on the table to discuss how to make this process potentially work better. T don't think that taking it away from the PONC commission, in my opinion, would not be a good idea. I think that works great as it is. I mean community voices, the more the better rather than centralizing it to us. So, for me, that's not my intention with this. But it is to look at how to make it work better. And so, it's more on that level rather than getting into those kinds of details. MR. ONISHL I support that. But I think it should be in this communication that part being written down so it's clear what the scope of this Ad Hoc committee Page 3 GOEAC-I I June 3,2025 will be doing. And if it's written down, then I would support it. Thank you. But I agree that's a great idea that you have. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. First of all, I think the PONC program is something that this County should really be proud of. Just looking at the opportunities for protection of open space across the State, we really bind of set the bar of a program. As we've discussed previous legislation before this Council, you know, we have a number of things on the PONC list that have been approved by this Council to acquire. And so, there is probably a need to refine the system. So, I appreciate the opportunity to evaluate and review the functionality, which:is the language in here, for the program. Some of the concerns, in particular, are the timeliness of decision-making around the program. You know, we do have properties that come on the market that where we want to try to go for them through PONC, the turnaround time through the process is really constrained to get those properties. The other issue is how we are going to over the long-term as we acquire more and more properties, continue to sustain the funding for the maintenance portion. Because the more properties we acquire,the more funding is required for stewardship; and we have a limit on that. So, I think looking at bringing in some other sources of funding into the stewardship program is something that we might want to consider. Then finally,T think we can do more to offer support to the stewards in terms of coming up with a management plan, really identifying the business needs of the stewardship organizations;just bringing a little more professionalism to that process so that we'can,insure that these places that we've acquired using public dollars Eire really being maintained to the standards that we intend as a body. So, you know, I'm happy to be part of this discussion. And I really do appreciate both Debbie's and actually, Debra Chang as well,who's been on the commission and has provided a lot of recommendations to me over the years as well. I think they've been great advocates for this program and would like to interact with them more on what their recommendations are. Thank you. CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Kimball. Council Member Hustace. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Would it be appropriate to ask a couple questions to administrative staff at this time? Page 4 GOEAC-I I June 3,2025 CHR. KAGIWADA: Yes, absolutely. MR. HUSTACE: Could I ask the Director of Finance, Diane Nakagawa? (Note: At this time, Finance Director Diane Nakagawa came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. NAKAGAWA: Good morning Council Members, Diane Nakagawa, Finance. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Director. The question I really have, and it came up in some of the testimonies about staffing. If you could just speak to that question first and how we're doing with the support that you need, that the commission needs to pursue the acquisition lands. MS. NAKAGAWA: Yes, absolutely. You know,we are painfully aware of the staffing shortage that we have,in Property Management. It is an extremely rough time with the vacancies we have in this'division:'We have a position that would support PONC that has been advertised for a while. We have not had candidates. We have another one that we're allocating to provide more support to this program. Over the last year we have spent a lot of time evaluating the needs of this program and definitely understand staffing and resources: More staffing and resources is needed just as commission members have stated. So, we a hundred percent agree. We have reallocated a position to create a position that has higher responsibilities of the program, and that should be out as well. We can'advertise these positions,but we do need to have candidates. So, we're working with other,options and incentives. But we are trying to get it filled, and e understand that is a hurdle right now that we are dealing with within Finance. And itcomes'at a time when we have been prioritizing looking at this program and making ittbetter,both in the stewardship and in the acquisition and working with the commission to improve the process and provide better education. It does come at the same time we're facing challenges and resources. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you Director. The second question may also relate to Deputy, Corporation Jean Campbell. It's really about, you know, with this effort from the Council and the challenges you have with staffing and the work the commission does. Would this help to overcome some of those hurdles in terms of how we best identify that process? Because Deputy Corporation Counsel Campbell, I had a brief conversation with you after the last PONC commission about prioritization. And sometimes that may actually come from the Mayoral side and executive side through the discussion. Page 5 GOEAC-I I June 3,2025 And you had mentioned that past efforts were taken by the Mayor to kind of reassess items on the list. Is that still something that's undertaken or would this effort support that as well? (Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Jean Campbell came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. CAMPBELL: Good morning everybody, Deputy Corporation Counsel Jean Campbell. I haven't spoken at length at all with Council Member Galimba about the intent for this committee that you want to form. It's my general understanding that it's to take a look at overall, how does the PONC progress functions and find ways that it can be more efficient; find ways that it can be more responsive to the commentary and suggestions that we get from the community. So, I think to the extent that my understanding is correct, that would be worthy effort to undertake. I think it could be very,possible for not only for this body but for the community as a whole to come to a better understanding of how it's currently working and to help„us find ways to,make it more efficient and to try and figure out who's the right body to address the various commentaries that the commission receives. Because the commission does receive an awful lot a commentary that is really outside'ofthe scope of their own authority. Staffing, right? I mean the commission can't do anything about that. And the Finance Director has told us the positions were advertised. So, basically, the County is doing what we can. So, to me,without understanding exactly what it is that Council Member Galimba has in minds Uo think that forming a group to look at all of these issues and to try and help the commission and the Finance Department find a better way, if there is a bettex way, could be useful. I think part of that would be helping everybody to understand how the process works from'start to finish today, which includes, you know, as I think you're all well aware, the priority list that we have. So, everything that the commission over the last 20 years or so has approved essentially for purchase exists. It's very long. And to help everybody understand what that list means and what do we do with that list. I think to the extent that's something that commission is thinking about looking into, I think that could be helpful. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Ms. Campbell. And Council Member Onishi, I appreciate your insight and creating those different barriers between the work of the commission, but also recognize the challenge and hurdles we have in staffing Page 6 GOEAC-I I June 3,2025 and the funds that are sitting there; they're capped out. I know that we're not really talking about the maintenance, but that's been capped out as well. So, how do we help with that entire process? Happy to support this and be a part of it, and be a witness, I will. So, thank you. Thank you, Chair. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Hustace. Anybody else? Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Having been an advocate for this program since its inception and thankful to Debbie Hecht and the deputies who worked on this. And I want to take a moment just to validate how far we have come with the PONC process. When I first got into office, Parks and Rec was still trying to manage the allocation of the maintenance funds to the nonprofits and cultural,organizations working on taking care of these properties and were years behind, causing major challenges for deadlines for organizations to give reporting on how they spent funds, but the funds had never been given°to them yet. So, we had some real challenges with that. Anctthe transition to finance greatly improved that process, the procedure, and the actual viability of getting these organizations the funds that they need in order to des the maintenance work of these properties. So, I just want to give kudos where kudos is due in that. Is there still ppportunity for the program to improve? Yes. And I believe improvement would be most effective by supporting those who are tasked actually run the program, and we°don't have enough people to even run the program right now, quite frankly,; adding more burden directly to Finance, which I'll say is one of the challenges Isee for a lot of the policies we were exploring here sound great if we had a fully staffed department and divisions to run them. So, t want to justmake sure we're not micromanaging something that's hanging on by a thread to keep what's happening there functioning. Because it's easy to look at something and say, this needs to change, this needs to change, and this needs to change. But until we get the bodies to implement the processes, procedures that are there. My heart goes out to you guys on that. Sei,I think it would be beneficial to especially the public to understand the PONC process. Currently, in negotiations for PONC property in District 7, and having had a number of properties go without purchase under prior Administrations. It's this dance, right, or urgency and ease; and understanding capacity for what can be done. So, there's a real dance in all of this. Page 7 GOEAC-I I June 3,2025 But I think we had about transitioning the approval process of the PONC list into one approval as opposed to each individual property coming separately, the intention was to remove more of that paperwork and timeline change. It doesn't change the fact that we as Council Members when properties come on that PONC list, especially the new list, or if we hear of anything that's happened with properties that had been on the old list and resolutions had been already passed, nothing precludes us from approaching Administration and Department of Finance to prioritize those properties. And that's that relationship opportunity we all have with our districts and the property owners. So, I suppose, Council Member Onishi, I believe,was asking for in Ad Hoc formation. And perhaps, Mr. Clerk, you can help identify; are there specific requirements when formation of anAd Hoc of what the purpose and what the outcomes are anticipated to be. Because based on that then we have a specific role and obligation, and we can check those things off. An overall assessment of something, bu What would you call this, a department or a division? That's more of doing an audit.,-You know that makes me think more of an audit. So, I suppose for me, I want to be in support of this, but I'd want to see just because to'discuss, evaluate, and review the functionality of the PONC process and legislation prior to introduction at Council, I don't know that we need an Ad Hoc to do that. I think We might be able to get that accomplished without an Ad Hoc. But those are just where my brain is bouncing around right now. CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member, I'm wondering, that seems almost more like alegal question. Would you like Corporation Counsel to answer? MS. VILLE6AS: Sure, thatwould be great. Thank you. MS. CAMPBELL; I may need to defer to Renee on this. I am not familiar with an Ad Hoc as something separate from a permitted interaction group. So, I can tell you about a permitted action group that is allowed under the Sunshine Law. If an Ad Hoc'committee is in fact a different animal, I'm going to have to defer to Renee on that one. CHIR. KAGIWADA: Corporation Counsel Schoen, thank you for joining us. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Renee Schoen came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SCHOEN: Good morning, Renee Schoen, Corporation Counsel. I'm so sorry, could you repeat the question? Page 8 GOEAC-I I June 3,2025 MS. VILLEGAS: Sure. Quick question about this potential formation of an Ad Hoc committee to review the PONC. The scope of the work is listed as discuss, evaluate and review the functionality of the PONC process and legislation prior to introduction at Council. My question is, when forming an Ad Hoc, is there a legal requirement that it has - I seem to remember through Ad Hocs, they have to have specific outcomes that are aimed for to report back on. As opposed to an overall review of a process. MS. SCHOEN: I'm not sure. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, clear as mud? MS. SCHOEN: Yeah, I would just think thebest result would dictate that it be more specific. I don't know if I'm helping or contributing. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. I just wondered for the overall intentionality of an Ad Hoc. I just remember being way more`formal and kinder of intimidating by, you had to have specific outcomes. Otherwise, it's a just a means to have conversations and get pass; Sunshine Law, right, like you'd have to have specific outcomes. CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member,the Clerk has some information to share. `(Note; At this time, County Clerk Jon Henricks came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. ENRICKS: Mello, good morning, Jon Henricks, County Clerk. So, understanding from your initial question; your description and your question now. The scope must be established or fully defined at the time of establishment, which is now. So, if the committee doesn't feel that the scope is not specific enough, as described in the communication, then that's an issue. You can't go beyond the scope. So, oftentimes when an Ad Hoc were permitted interaction group which is synonymous or formed, it'll be intentionally broad to provide more leeway to allow that group to maybe not delve into things that weren't anticipated necessarily, but not be restricted when it comes time to do its work. The further you define the scope in detail and specifics, the more boundaries that are then applied to that Ad Hoc committee because it's operating outside of the Sunshine Law. So, if it appears intentional by Committee Member Galimba to make this Page 9 GOEAC-11 June 3,2025 broad-scoped to give that room. But if this committee isn't satisfied, it can ask for a new communication that would provide more detail as to what the purpose of Ad Hoc would be. That's an option too. CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Villegas, do you have anything else, or do you yield? MS. VILLEGAS: Then after the Ad Hoc meets, there is timeframe designated to that Ad Hoc meeting. MR. HENRICKS: There actually isn't. It's just as long as it takes or sometimes things don't even happen necessarily. Not that this would be one of those times. MS. VILLEGAS: No, but it's been known to happen. And'then,the reporting back is kind of the closing part of that to report back the findings., MR. HENRICKS: Eventually, if there are any'findings and recommendations, they will be brought before this committee. And at that time, the Ad Hoc would dissolve and no longer be allowed to meet outside of the Sunshine Law. And then, this committee or any future Committees or Council could then use those recommendations or findings to take policy action: MS. VILLEGAS: Great. Thank you for helping me clarify. Appreciate it. Alright,I yield at this time. Thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else before I go back to Council Member Onishf 'Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion. I actually hadon my calendar to convene a PONC summit in the Fall; having;helped'a number of nonprofit organizations navigate the stewardship process; accessing those funds, and then myself working with community members to actually apply to suggest some properties for acquisition. It's quite a labyrinth to navigate, and there are, I think, a lot of opportunities; room for improvement on the community side on the County side. I'm going to suggest perhaps reworking this communication because I'm not incredibly clear on what the scope is. I'm hearing it being described today, but when I read what's here on paper, functionality of the PONC process legislation prior to introduction to Council. What came to mind for me was a couple of meetings ago where we had discussed a resolution that included all of the properties that were recently on the recommendation list. I thought that was the scope of the discussion, but it seems Page 10 GOEAC-I I June 3,2025 to be a lot broader than that, looking at the nomination, the prioritization, and also the maintenance piece. So, I would suggest that be written so that members of the public are extremely clear on what is going to be discussed by this body. And then also to identifying outcome. If the idea is to make recommendations for a Code update, or a Charter amendment, or internal procedures, I think that need's to be explicitly stated so that the work of the Ad Hoc can be focused. Thank you, Chair. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anybody else? Council Member Onishi, back to you. MR. ONISHL Thank you, Madame Chair. Just to give members,a little brief history of how this was created: My,understanding was it was under Parks and Rec because of the property that we were acquiring.was in recreational places. But the problem was, and it's the same with Finance is saying, they couldn't find employees. And Parks and Rec also didn't have the capabilities of doing that Finance part, or even to keep track of the nonprofits. It was going outrageous back then when I was there. These guys would come year after year asking for this chunk of money, and some of the stuff would be like the same stuff they asked for the previous years. But there was nobody there to continue to monitor all the inventory that was being put out. So, I guess through the years; then now the Council Members' body changes over to Finance, which is a better place. But like I said, back then I think it was because it was under Recreation. The property that we were acquiring was in recreational places; right? The other thing,' !just want to make it clear, funding can be provided with what we have. But it's the property owner that needs to agree. So, if the property owner doesn't agree to what that appraised value is then it won't get sold. And I think I had that discussion with the Finance Director the last time about getting resources. If a nonprofit wants to get this certain property, to be on PONC, and if the appraisal value is at this certain rate and the owner doesn't want to sell, then that nonprofit needs to think outside the box and try to see if they can get more funding from other resources and use that to help offset that cost. So, that's why there's so many different other groups out there that does provide funding to purchase these public open space lands, right? And that's what we will look. We cannot just depend on what the County is offering, right? Page 11 GOEAC-11 June 3,2025 So, I'm just mentioning that and giving some history of what the process was back then when we approved this PONC committee and the process. But if you can clarify your communication, I'll totally support it. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Onishi. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: I'm going to join my colleagues in saying, I think there's an opportunity perhaps to refine the language a little bit in this communication, and I'm happy to work with you on that. But I'm actually reading it again based on what Council Member Kierkiewicz said. T think the scope is potentially narrower than we need it to be to really have a meaningful discussion. So, I would suggest a new communication with a little bit more detail. Thanks. CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, Seeing no,other lights, Council Member Galimba back to you for where you want to go with this. MS. GALIMBA: I'm happy to withdraw,it and bring it back. I think there is going to need to be a,certain amount of broadness to it, as Council Member Kierkiewicz put it. So,I will work on getting a better balance of detail and broadness so that we can have the best possible committee. CHR KAGIWADA: Okay, are you withdrawing it? MR,BROWN: Excuse me, Madame Chair, I think a cleaner way to deal with the motion on the floor is just vote on it. It's just a communication. So, if you could close file on this communication here and then bring a brand-new communication when you're ready, Council Member Galimba. CHR KAGIWADA: Is that'amenable to you Council Member? MS. GALIMBA:­ Sure, although I'm probably going to vote for my own communication because it's mine. CHR KAGIWADA: Okay, with that, all those in favor in closing file? Any opposed? Page 12 GOEAC-11 June 3,2025 Vote on Comm. 304: The motion to close file on Comm. 304 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneah'i-Kleirifelder— 1. Excused: None. CHR. KAGIWADA: And with that, we come to the end of the Government Operations and External Affairs Committee at 10:41 a.m. Our next committee meeting will start shortly. Thank you. ADJOURN- Seeing no further business, Chair,Kagiwada adjourned the meeting,at MENT: 10:41 a.m. Approved: Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair (Date) Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs JK/dt Page 13