HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2025/07/08 (2022-2024) DRAFT Committee on Finance
14th Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
July 8, 2025
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at
ORDER: 11:40 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr.Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Chair
Mr. James E. Hustace, Vice Chair
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
..............
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member(came in later)
Ms. Heather Kimball, Member
Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi, Member(came in later)
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (came in'later)
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by
the Chair;- - -
Hope Alohalani,Cermelj: Res. 232-25 (Comm. 370), in support.
Timothy Iowen: Bill 38 (Comm. 203), in support.
(representing Malama O Puna and
Black Sands Community Association)
Eileen O'Hara: Bill 38 (Comm. 203), in support.
(representing Hawaiian Shores
Community Association)
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 23.14: REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: MAY 1 — 15, 2025
From Acting Controller Wilson Crider, dated May 29, 2025.
FC-14 July 8,2025
Motion to Close File: Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 23.14. Seconded
by Mr. Hustace.
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Members, any discussion on the
communication? Council Member Hustace.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. If I may go through some of these, I have a
couple questions for some of the departments on just some clarity for these if
that's alright with you? Thank you, Chair. Alright. First question is for Fire
Department, or I don't know who could address some of these things specifically,
maybe it's directly to Finance then. Alright. Well the question is related to, and
it may not be appropriate to answer this question here and now but in the
explanation it says expected to transitioninto'County employees and I'm just
curious what the progress is looking like'at this point. I don't know, Director, if
you could even address that question of mine though.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Diane Nakagawa came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. NAKAGAWA: Good morning, Council Members. Diane Nakagawa,
Finance Department. I don't know the details of that, but I do know there were
some challenges in this plan to transition these pilots to County workers. But I
would rely on Fire to have more details, and I believe they just walked in the
room so they could probably provide you With some additional information.
MR. HUSTACE: Sure. Thank you. If we could have Fire come up. I just had a
question on the explanation piece there. If you could just push the button and
introduce yourself that would be awesome. Thank you.
(Note: At this time,'Department of Fire Accountant Nikol Lonokapu came
forward,to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. LONOKAPU: Hi. Good morning. Nikol Lonokapu, Accountant for Fire.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Nikol. Yeah this question is just really to the
explanation piece, and I was just curious on how that transition is going for
helicopter pilots and operations?
MS. LONOKAPU: It's still not complete. It's been pretty complicated. It's
actually we've been working on it for several years, but we are almost at
completion.
MR. HUSTACE: Okay.
MS. LONOKAPU: Yeah.
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FC-14 July 8,2025
MR. HUSTACE: Okay.
MS. LONOKAPU: We're not quite there yet. We should be within the next few
months.
MR. HUSTACE: Okay. Good to know. Thank you so much. Really appreciate
that. Then if someone from Public Works is here; Ms. Kalua-Lewis I believe.
(Note: At this time, Public Works Business Manager Kelsey Kalua-Lewis
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Good morning, Council Members. Kelsey Kalua-Lewis,
Business Manager, Public Works.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Ms. Kalua-Lewis. Just a question"on, let's see, this
is on Automotive Division, if you could just elaborate what you mean about
uncontrollable costs and just explore on that a little bit and expand on that?
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yeah. So for Automotive Division the heavy equipment
parts and supplies, we kind of call it an uncontrollable cost due to our kind of
aging fleet of heavy construction equipment. Some years we do have more need
to buy parts and supplies. ThisWas one of the years where we transferred an
additional $200,000 just to cover anything that might come up through the rest of
the fiscal year.
MR. HUSTACE: Okay. It's just an interesting choice of words about this
uncontrollable. So yeah, thank you for the explanation on that. Thank you.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: No problem.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you. Thanks for your patience, Chair. Next one is for
Office of Management I believe, if someone could address a question for Office
of Management? The question is about their digital camera equipment. What is
being done with some of the older equipment and or what is the purpose and use
of some of this equipment?
MS. NAKAGAWA: Good morning. Diane Nakagawa, Finance. I don't have the
details on that. Normally if any type of equipment is no longer working or not
productive we would do a disposal on that equipment. That is normally the case.
And the replacement of new equipment I can imagine would be to take pictures at
various events to make the community aware of things that are happening. Again,
I don't have that details, but I would assume this is what that would be used for.
MR. HUSTACE: I appreciate that, Director. Yeah. Thank you. No, I'm sorry to
put you on the spot there, Director.
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FC-14 July 8,2025
MS. NAKAGAWA: No worries.
MR. HUSTACE: And actually for this communication the last question is
actually for Ms. Kalua-Lewis again. Sorry. Thank you, Director. Sorry,
Ms. Kalua-Lewis. Apologies. Things are kind of in different orders here. So the
last there is for Building Division. Funds are needed for un-budgeted equipment
of 33 iPad Airs, but the transfer is only for $1,200. So is this just additional funds
that are needed for the purchase of the 33?
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yes. It was additional funds needed to support the
purchase of the 33 iPad Airs.
MR. HUSTACE: Okay. Because it just says funds are needed for un-budgeted
equipment. It doesn't say that this is basically additional funds are needed. It just
says that it's just going toward. Anyway, if we can put that inhere. But thank
you.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: No. Thank you.- -
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Ms. Kalua-Lewis. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member Onishi.
MR. ONISHL Thank you, Chair. Just one question. So you have for traffic
signals and,lights, transferring$170,000 to Highways for this tanker fund. My
question is I had asked before to get crosswalk flashing lights on Kalanianaole in
Keaukaha. So I'm just hoping that this funding that is being taken away didn't
affect my request for those flashing lights.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: No, it didn't. I believe the one in front of Baker; I
thought that was installed. I would have to double check. But I knew that was
one of'our Acting Director's priority projects to get the flashing beacons.
MR. ONISHL Correct. Okay.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: So no, this didn't pull away anything from Traffic.
Traffic was able to purchase everything they wanted to with the additional funds
being able to go to Highways.
MR. ONISHL Okay. And the other one is at Andrews, that intersection.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: I would have to double check on Andrews. I'm only
aware of Baker.
MR. ONISHL Okay. If you can let me know on that one?
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Will do.
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FC-14 July 8,2025
MR. ONISHI: Thank you.
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Thank you.
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay. Council, any further
questions? Okay,just noting it is July; we've entered a new fiscal year, and this is
a total request for $1.84 million. I do like the end of the year; we see a lot of
these for the end of the year. A lot of funds being over in some accounts and
under in others. I would expect we'll see a few more not only today but in further
agendas. With that, Mr. Clerk, motion is on the floor to close file on
Communication 23.14. All in favor?
Vote on Comm. 23.14: The motion to close file on Comm. 23.14 was carried by
Filed the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace,
Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder-"8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewiacz— 1.
Excused: None,
Comm. 23.15: REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: MAY 16 —31, 2025
From Acting Controller WilsonCrider, datedJune 14, 2025.
Motion to Close File: Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 23.15. Seconded
by Mr, Ilustace.
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Any discussion? Council Member
Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWAI)A;,; Thank you. Is Parks here? Thank you. As you're coming
up, I just had a question about the item that is taking the $40,700 from the
Nutrition,Program going to the Alae Cemetery it looks like. Can you tell me why
that money;for the Nutrition Program wasn't able to be used?
(Note: At this time, Parks and Recreation Business Manager Charmaine
Felipe came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
NfS. FELIPE: Good morning, Felipe, Business Manager for Parks and
Recreation. So the Nutrition program hasn't been able to reach their capacity, and
we needed funds over at the Alae Cemetery and the Nutrition funds were
available to transfer.
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FC-14 July 8,2025
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Do you have anyI don't know, you might not be the
right person, but do you have any sense of why the Nutrition Program isn't
reaching its capacity?
MS. FELIPE: Basically participation. And that's something that we're looking
at. Seniors after COVID (Coronavirus Disease) are not wanting to come back to
the nutrition sites, the congregate meal sites.
MS. KAGIWADA: I see. So they have to go there in person to have the meals
and that's been slow on uptake?
MS. FELIPE: Yes, because they don't qualify for the home delivered meals.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Alright. Happy to talk with you offline about it but I
was just interested about that. Thank you. I yield.
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay. Seeing no further
discussion, motion is on the floor to close file on Communication 23.15. All in
favor?
Vote on Comm. 23.15: The motion to close file on Comm. 23.15, vas carried by
Filed the following voice vote`
Ayes: Committee Me'mbers'Galirnba,Hustace,
Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz— 1.
Excused: None.
Comm. 24.1 DEPORT OF'CHANGE ORDERS AUTHORIZED: APRIL 16—30, 2025
From ,inance Director Diane Nakagawa, dated June 4, 2025, transmitting the
above report pursuant to Section 2-12.3 of the Hawaii County Code.
Motion to Close File: Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 24.12. Seconded
by Ms. Galimba.
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Discussion? Council Member Kimball.
NfS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you. I just had a question, Director, about the
contract with Title Guarantee and if you could just describe to us what is covered
under that agreement?
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Diane Nakagawa came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
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FC-14 July 8,2025
MS. NAKAGAWA: Hold on just a quick second, let me just get to that one.
MS. KIMBALL: While the Director is looking, the reason I actually wanted to
call attention to this is it's been recently brought to my attention a problem that is
particular in my district but may affect the rest of you folks as well, which is the
ability to get clear title for properties that have back taxes. So I have, for
example, a property in my district that has over $200,000 due in unpaid property
taxes and because we cannot get clear title, we cannot proceed to the auction
action. So I'm just interested to clarify what agreement and support we have from
Title Guarantee. Administrator Miura knows exactly what I'm talking about.
(Note: At this time, Real Property Tax Administrator Lisa Miura came
forward to address the members of the Committee;),
MS. MIURA: Hi. Lisa Miura, Real Property Tax Administrator. I apologize. I
did not realize this was on here. This is an option year for Title Guarantee who
has been the only bidder for title services to provide litigation guarantees for our
real property tax sales. We have two a year and the most that they can handle is
200 per tax sale. And I can get into more specifics, but that's the basics of it.
They do a preliminary search and then they also have to run updates right before
the sale and right after to see if there's been any recordation.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Administrator. So yeah, I'm just putting it out there
so that we can all kind of put our thinking caps on about what might be a solution
to this because I haven't asked the Real Property Tax Department to run the
numbers about what were actually due, but for some of these properties in order
tei resolve security issues, to do a judicial foreclosure, any of that is going to
require a title report and require for us to get clear title and Title Guarantee is not
actually providing that service for some of these properties. So I think we need to
come up with another mechanism to resolve that issue. Thank you, Chair. I
yield.
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member Hustace.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I have two questions on this change order
communication. The first is regarding the Waikoloa Road rehabilitation, so
Public Works. Thank you, Ms. Kalua-Lewis. The contract came in at$25 million
but nerve we're under $3 million. We had this discussion during the budget
process. One item on the capital budget is for the Waikoloa Road rehabilitation.
So why do we have something on the capital budget, I forget what the figure was,
but maybe it was a quarter of a million, $250,000, and if we're coming under this
contract and yet are we going back out to bid for something else? And we're
under $3 million here so why isn't the project being completed?
(Note: At this time, Public Works Business Manager Kelsey Kalua-Lewis
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
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FC-14 July 8,2025
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Thank you for the question. Kelsey Kalua-Lewis,
Business Manager, Public Works. So this specific project was a federal aid
project; 80 percent federal funded, 20 percent County funded. This project started
back in May 2023, and it was just basically the rehab of Waikoloa Road. The
projects that you see on our upcoming capital improvement projects (CIP) are
more so maybe projects that are happening in the Waikoloa Road area not
specifically to this big rehab we were doing. So this project was actually project
acceptance was in May 2024. So we're looking at closing this particular project
out soon.
MR. HUSTACE: So that one on the capital budget pis entirely separate then?
MS. KALUA-LEWIS: Yes, unrelated to'this. This was just the rehabilitation of
the road. So I would say over the past two years they've been doing work on
Waikoloa Road.
MR. HUSTACE: Okay. I need to talk to the department about it. I seem to have
some confusion then. Thank you. Appreciate that. The next one is for Planning.
I know Ms. Morrison is here; on the General flan completion and this contract. Is
this an ongoing contract and will it be throughout the process as a Council, we're
reviewing it as well; is this an available resource to the whole process?
(Note: At this time, Planner Bethany Morrison came forward to address
the members of the Committee.)
MS. MORRISON: Good morning. Bethany Morrison, Planning Department. So
yes this contracthas been with us for a few years to support the mapping
component of the General Plan weak So we extended that with a little bit of
funds to support they work through the Council and additional mapping is needed
because we lack the capacity internally to kind of do some of those mapping
requests that might come about.
MR. HUSTACE: Perfect. So that's definitely a resource we could tap into then if
we want to add many more maps over?
MS. MORRISON: Yes. Yes.
MR. HUSTACE: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Morrison. Appreciate that. Thank you,
Chair.
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay. Seeing nothing further,
motion is on the floor to close file on Communication 24.12. All in favor?
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FC-14 July 8,2025
Vote on Comm. 24.12: The motion to close file on Comm. 24.12 was carried by
Filed the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace,
Inaba, Kagiwada, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz and Kimball —2.
Excused: None.
Comm. 24.13: REPORT OF CHANGE ORDERS AUTHORIZED- MAY 1 — 15, 2025
From Finance Director Diane Nakagawa, dated June 5,, 2425, transmitting the
above report pursuant to Section 2-12.3 of the Hawaii County Code.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Galimba moved to close file on Comm. 24.13.
Seconded by Mr. Hustace.'
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Any discussion from the Council? Okay. I
do have one. This is for the management for the emergency rental assistance
(ERA)program through OHCD (Office of Housing and Community
Development) with Neighborhood Place of Puna looking at the 17.3 percent
increase in the original contract; And then I have another one for Mass Transit
after.
(Note: At this time, Housing Administrator Kehaulani Costa came
forward,to address the members of the Committee.)
MS.'COSTA: Hi.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEI NFELDER: Hi. Please introduce yourself.
MS. COSTA: Hi.,Kehau Costa, Housing Administrator.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Administrator. What's the
scoop on this one; what's going on here?
MS. COSTA: So this is $1.2 million added to the $7.1 million existing contract.
e needed to encumber as much of our funds that we could to get out emergency
rental assistance to the community. The program is ending September 30t'. This
funding is for both direct client services, rental assistance, and then the
administrative costs for administering the program and for grant management.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: What is the total; have we reviewed the
total amount they're taking as the administrative costs?
MS. COSTA: Yes. It's within compliance of the federal regulations.
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FC-14 July 8,2025
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And what is that?
MS. COSTA: Twenty percent is federal, I believe it's 20 percent.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Twenty percent of, what is the total?
MS. COSTA: Total grant.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: What was itT
MS. COSTA: The total grant?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah.
MS. COSTA: Yeah. So this total grant is $8 million; but we had,ERA 1 funds
and ERA 2 funds together. So I think we had something like $15 million total in
funding.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So they got allowable, or they did? I guess
that's the two major ones?
MS. COSTA: Allowable.;
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELEiER: D'id they take the full allowance?
MS. COSTA. So this isn't completely spent down. So this is what's budgeted
for. I do believe we're going to spend down the rental assistance part, which is
over,$6 million'in direct assistance in rental assistance on this $7.1 million. I'm
not about,the administrative program side operational cost. Yeah. We're
spending about$500,000, a little over $500,000 a month in rental assistance.
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So this change order is not
necessarily; sorry letme change that. This change order increases the funding
towards this program, but this could also be that a piece of this then taken
administratively by the organization to oversee the funds?
MS. COSTA: Yeah. So of the $1.2 million increase, there's about$800,000
that's direct benefit to community and the rest is for staffing and operational cost.
So went to Neighborhood Place of Puna, OHCD did, to ask them to increase their
capacity to get as much rental assistance out to the community as possible
knowing that these funds are ending September. So with that there's, as we know
in Section 8 there's an incredible administrative burden on certifying families
eligibility for the rental assistance, making sure that they qualify, looking at their
income, their leases. So the administrative burden of this particular grant is pretty
extensive. It's similar to Section 8; and it's getting it out there to the community.
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FC-14 July 8,2025
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Understood. I didn't know
there was a 20 percent allowance for the federal.
MS. COSTA: Yeah. I'll double check on that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. That's pretty hefty.
MS. COSTA: And different scripters to what admin is.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Do you go back and review total grants
given to these entities as well as what their total administrative costs is and how
many people they've serviced?
MS. COSTA: I do look at the budget, yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Take a look at that, the total forthis
account and what they put out there. I mean,,understanding it was really
necessary during COVID. We're very much post COVID. And understanding
there's still a need in the community, not taking away from that. But 20 percent
administrative is pretty heavy for any organization in my opinion. If you could
just take a look, yeah? Okay; Thank you, Administrator. Council Member
Onishi.
MR. ONISHL Thank you, Chair. Just a question. How many clients are we
reaching out to?
IDS: COSTA: f do have just some numbers when we put this request in for the
$1.2thillion; looking at May I't;February lst 2024 to February 2025;just in that
time, so'this is where you can see we're pushing to get more funds out. Just
between May and February, it was $2.5 million in rental assistance to about
370 households.
MR. OISHL 370?
MS. COSTA: Yeah.
MR. ONISHL Okay. Thanks.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Just want to thank you for pushing this
out. I know it was, you know, not really expected. And I also thank the
community organizations for stepping up to do extra work that we're asking them
to do to try to get this money out the door. You know, I was meeting with Officer
Josh Willing who's been patrolling Downtown Hilo, and he talked about the fact
that there are people there who qualify for vouchers but aren't being able to spend
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FC-14 July 8,2025
them. So I do really appreciate the hard work you guys are doing to try to get this
money because we use it or lose it, right?
MS. COSTA: Yes.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yes.
MS. COSTA: Yes. For this particular grant, yes.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah. Okay. Well thank you for getting the money out there
and that extra work.
MS. COSTA: Thanks.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah. I yield;
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDM Thank you. Seeing no furtherdiscussion,
the motion is on the floor to close file cn'Communication 24.13. All in favor?
Vote on Comm. 24.13: The motion to close file on Comm. 24.13 was carried by
Filed the following void vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace,
Inaba, Kagiwa a, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair aneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz— 1.
Excused: None.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Resolution 232-25.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
Res. 232-25: ACCEPTS THE DONATION OF A ONE-YEAR SUBSCRIPTION FOR
MAGNET GRAYKEY FORENSIC ACCESS TOOL FROM OUR RESCUE
The donation to the Hawaii Police Department, with an estimated value of
$i24,102.50, would be used to advance law enforcement efforts in combatting
human trafficking and child exploitation.
Reference: Comm. 370
Intr. by: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend adoption of
Res. 232-25. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
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FC-14 July 8,2025
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Members, any discussion? Well,
we've got you here you might as well give us a little background. I know there
was one testimony today related to this, so if you can, sir?
(Note: At this time, Police Major Jeremie Evangelista came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. EVANGELISTA: Good afternoon. Major Jeremie Evangelista, Hawaii
Police Department. You mentioned there was a question from the testifier; was
there something to answer?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No,just general discussion from the public.
MR. EVANGELISTA: General discussion.", this would'be an MOU
(Memorandum of Understanding)to accept this donation for this license to
conduct digital forensics. So for example, if we were to recover°an,electronic
device such as a computer or a cell phone, the license would help us analyze the
contents of that device pursuant to a criminal'investigation.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. 'Thank you. Thank you for your
time. Council Members, motion is on the floor to forward Resolution 232-25 to
Council with a favorable recommendation. All in favor?
Vote on Res. 232-25: The motion to recommend adoption,trf Res. 232-25 was
(Approved) carried,by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace,
Inaba, Kagiwada,Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent; „Committee Member Kierkiewicz— 1.
Excused; None.>
Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Hustace.
ACTING"CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I'll be the Acting Chair for this
piece of the agenda as we bring forward Bill 38.
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
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FC-14 July 8,2025
Bill 38: AMENDS CHAPTER 19, ARTICLE 13, OF THE HAWAI`I COUNTY CODE
1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO REAL PROPERTY
TAX CREDITS
Establishes a Private Road Tax Credit of up to $500 to be applied towards a
homeowner's real property tax bill when the homeowner expends at
least$100 annually to maintain, repair, or improve a private roadway that is not
restricted by a gate and is managed by a road maintenance organization.
Reference: Comm. 203
Intr. by: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
Postponed: April 15 June 3, and June 17, 2025
(Note: There is a motion by Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, seconded by
Council Member Galimba, to recommend passage of Bill 38 on first reading.)
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder, if you want to start us off on discussion again today, that'd be
awesome.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair Hustace. First of all, I'd
like to say thank you for your patience. This has been a long ongoing challenging
bill in different ways, but we made some good progress. We have today our
Director of Finance and our Real Property Tax Administrator and Deputy
Administrator joining us as wellas our Deputy Finance Director. I do have some
amendments that are forthcoming, but they are not in front of you yet. They are
coming though, which really so address a lot of the concerns that I've heard to
chat both from Corporation Counsel as well as from some of you folks.
I think I'll jut�start by level setting us a little bit and then I'll get to the
amendments and hopefully they're here very shortly. Do you have an idea, Mr.
Clerk, on how long we're looking at?
MR. BROWN: Our staff is working as hard as they can, Mr. Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder; We'll be as expeditious as possible.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much. Okay. Just to level
set us, we've been a lot of different directions with this. Purpose of the bill is to
provide a property tax credit for residents in the homeowners class only. So that's
where local residents, primary homeowners, which I believe we're looking at
about 11,000 parcels. Those are numbers that RPT (Real Property Tax)was
gracious enough to put together. Only those in private subdivisions whose roads
are open to the public and without a gate. So I really slimmed these down with
the intent of providing this credit to homeowners, I mean, these are our local
residents. These are not your out-of-towners, these aren't second homeowners,
these aren't vacation rentals. These are folks who live here, breathe here, and pay
for the maintenance of their own roadways, and these are not gated communities.
Page 14
FC-14 July 8,2025
So differentiating between the different economic sectors we have in our
community as well as those that we're really trying to assist with. Again, these
are roads that are open to the public, including the County and the state and any
other utility or agency, yet have been privately maintained without assistance by
our residents for 50 or 60 years, since statehood, basically.
Some of our residents, and this really is the crux of it. Some of our residents can't
access services from the County; services that a lot of us take for granted like
EMS (Emergency Medical Services), fire, police, mass transit, you name it. They
maintain their roadways; they pay taxes; they pay fuel tax; and yet they are not
able to access the services that we provide and that is,a social equity piece that we
are attempting to address as well. I do argue over thatwe as a County and as a
state promote the proliferation of homes across the island in different areas
including rural areas, but we do have an obligation then, at least if not moral then
ethically and legally to provide services to each and every home we allow to
build.
So in front of you, you do have one of your first amendments and want to just do
a quick mahalo to Lei (Kapuni-Hatch) from my office and Mr. Jacob Perry in
LRB (Legislative Research Branch) for helping one get these in front of you.
We're going to run through them. I took some hints from some of you folks in
the way that you present,amendments. To an efficiency point of view, I'd like to
do an all in one, but it is a little bit confusing. So I've broken it apart so we can
look at each amendment differently. And please let the record reflect that Council
Member Kieriewicz has joined us.
Motion to Amend: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to amend Bill 38 with the
contents of Comm. 203.5. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Council Member, on the amendment.
MR.,KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So Comm. 203.5
does two things. In+conversation with Real Property Division as well as some of
the members in our community we have changed in Section 19, under(a)
Number 4; that the owner will have paid no less than $75 to the road maintenance
organization for the maintenance repair or improvement purposes of the roadway.
That really just really sets a bar as far as what we're wanting to take and go after
With the County and with the HOAs (Homeowners Association) and see how
much work we're going to put into it for the return. So the $75 decreases from
the original $100, but at one point I was considering $25. So this just ups that bar
a little bit to make sure the people are paying in X amount of dollars that's
worthwhile to go after a credit for them.
The second addresses, and I'm going to call this Diane's amendment right here,
that the amount of credit—this also is to Mr. Inaba's point, that the language here;
the amount of the credit shall be equal to the lesser of$250 or the amount paid
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FC-14 July 8,2025
under Subsection (a) 4. So this decreases the total ask for the credit from $500 to
$250, but it also means that we won't pay any more than $250 in a credit for to
those who have paid for road maintenance dues. So I'm looking to decrease the
total amount of the credit as well as change the language from the greater to
lesser, meaning it won't go higher than $250. And this is to Finance Director
Nakagawa's want to decrease the revenue reduction and then as well to make sure
this is worthwhile for the departments and for the public to be applying for the
credit. So with that said, any questions from the Council on the amendment?
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Ms. Kagiwada, you're,up first.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. And maybe' the author,can answer or maybe we
need staff to answer. So in moving from'$100 to $75, hour many more people
were included now?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER, ,I don't know if the administration will the
answer for that. This is more to allow' for some of the organizations that collect
less than $100 per year.
MS. KAGIWADA: Right. So do you know how many of those there are?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFEEDER: Off the top of my head I would say you have
two subdivisions that collect voluntary road dues. Some are at$80 per year and
some are less than or there is no requirement,,so they get a range of fees coming
in.
MS: KAGIWADA: Yeah. Can you come up?
MR. KANEALI'l LEINFELDER: But this amount would just qualify that they
have to atleast have spent$15.
MS. KAGIWADA;; Okay.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And thank you, Mr. Jo, for helping me.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you for coming up. Thank you. You can introduce
yourself.
(Note: At this time, Real Property Tax Administrator Lisa Miura and
Assistant Administrator Keita Jo came forward to address the members of
the Committee.)
MR. JO: Assistant Administrator Keita Jo.
Page 16
FC-14 July 8,2025
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Assistant Administrator. Do you have any sense
of how many more people now this benefit would be available to now that it's
gone from $100 to a $75 minimum of investment per year?
MR. JO: Yeah, if I were to look at the raw data that we have, it starts to include
416 additional properties.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. And what is our estimated cost for this program now
that it includes an additional 416 people?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just to lend art ear if I could, Chair.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Just hold off for one second„ Let's let Assistant
Administrator kind of do the calculation to answer the question and we'll come
back to you. Thank you.
MR. JO: Yeah. So the administrator corrected me. The number of properties
that are now included is not 416, we're closer to actually 460 properties that are
now included by dropping it to $75. And the cost is about$34,000.
MS. KAGIWADA: $34,000 per year.
MR. JO: That is correct.
MS. KAGIWADA: And the total number of participants that it could be would
be 460?
MR. JO; That's in addition to the original assumption, which was, you know,
capping the minimum at$100, right.
MS:KAGIWADA: Okay. Okay. So do we have an estimate on how many
properties we're talking about total?
MR. JO- As amended we don't. We weren't able to do analysis to look at that
range between $25 to $250, but we can share the numbers on the amendment that
was provided us last time, which basically had it run from anything between $25
to $400.
M :KAGIWADA: Okay. And we're talking about$34,000 a year for the whole
program?
MR. JO: No. That's in addition to.
MS. KAGIWADA: That's in addition. And what was it the last time you gave
us, what was it?
Page 17
FC-14 July 8,2025
MR. JO: Last time it was at about$2.2 million if I recall correctly.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Alright. Okay. I do like the credit amount going
down. I do have concern about the amount of work this is going to take for what
it is being offered. But I can get to that after the amendment. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Ms. Kagiwada. Any thoughts,
questions, before I go back to the author? Alright, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, if
you have any other additional input on this one.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. And then to the
department, understanding this is kind of a rolling ball you're chasing because
I'm amending different sections, but these are to address the concerns that were
brought up by Real Property Tax, by the Finance Department and also that the
community have brought to my attention as well. So I appreciate the latitude. To
Mr. Jo, I appreciate you doing on the fly math increasing the parcel amount by
460 parcels that could be applicable, but at the same time reducing the overall
expense to capping it at$250 per parcel. So it does create a little bit of a moving
target but ultimately we may have gained 460.parcels, but we've capped them at
almost half of what we did in the beginning at 500. So I look for everyone's
support on the amendment. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Any other discussion? Okay. Seeing none, roll call
vote please, on the amendment.
Vote on Motion The m6ti;on to amend Bill 38 with the contents of
to Amend: Comm. 203.5 was carried by the following roll call vote:
(Approved)
Ayes. Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i=Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Onishi, and Villegas —8.
'Noes: Committee Acting Chair Hustace— 1.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING"CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Second amendment,
r. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
Motion to Amend: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to amend Bill 38, as
amended, with the contents of Comm. 203.6. Seconded by
Ms. Villegas.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, the floor
is yours.
Page 18
FC-14 July 8,2025
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Beautiful. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sorry I
didn't mean to cut you off.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: That's okay.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So starting at the beginning. Article 13; tax
credits Section 19-104, this is on the amendment now. The first one was a
housekeeping requirement from LRB. That is the Section (c) in 19-104 under the
solar water heater tax credit. So that's that, simple housekeeping. And then as
you go further into this credit that we would be creating if it did pass, under
subsection (c), this speaks to a number of things. One,,in the very beginning of
our hearings the Real Property Division expressed thatthis would be incredibly
negative for their staffing as far as how much workload we would be creating for
the department and then as well there Was a'concern for legal issue with the bill as
amended by DCC (Deputy Corporation Counsel) (Keyra) Wong At that last
hearing, which preempted the postponement to today. The legal concern was that
people cannot be opted into a program accept,there was no basis for that concern
after the review.
So to make everybody happy we changed the--and again, I appreciate your
patience on this. What'I've done here, and this is what I've learned actually going
back to folks like Valerie Poindexter is that sometimes instead of trying to really
dig into the details and require what we do through language in the bill it's
actually better to allow the discretion of the director or the administrator. So in
subsection,(c), this amendmentihat you're seeing actually allows the director the
discretion in the way that the documents are supplied to the department by the
HOAs as well as what documentation is required. The Finance Department is in
their admin rule making process'currently and so if this were to pass, although it
would be applicable in,2026, which is a year away, there is time for the director
and the administrator to work collaboratively to find admin rules that would help
this be seated in our code language as well as how this would be rolled out with
our HOAs and with our subdivisions.
Another big plus here I think that people may not realize and I've seen this again
and again', and maybe some of the other Council Members as well is a lot of the
HOAs thatwe have in our community are challenged with bookkeeping and
providing information and as well as Ms. (Eileen) O'Hara in her testimony, how
the subdivisions would address someone who is not paying their road dues
voluntary or mandatory and how the community association can handle a parcel
owner in a manner of a lien or anything else. So this is more of a broad
amendment that addressed potential legal concerns that were addressed by
Corporation Counsel that were found to not exist actually. And I do appreciate
Ms. Wong and her study into this as well as take care of the issues that were
brought up by the Real Property Tax Division in the amount of work load this
would create. There wouldn't be an application. This is documentation provided
by the HOAs to the Real Property Tax Division that would lessen their work load.
Page 19
FC-14 July 8,2025
I don't know. And that is the content of this amendment. So I look forward to
any questions. This is a multi-piece, and I appreciate your patience in walking
through it and understanding what it does. I'm happy to answer any questions if
there are any.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Any additional
thoughts, questions, for the maker? Ms. Kierkiewicz, you're up first.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Hi, Lisa, eita. Great to see you.
Looking at the amendment before us in Comm. 203,.6, Page 2, so with letter(c), it
sounds like we are putting the ball in the court of community to report to Real
Property Tax. Does that lessen the work load on your end to administer this
program?
MS. MIURA: Real Property Tax Administrator Lisa Miura. In'this case it is
going to the community as far asp the road maintenance organization cor the
association to provide us the details.,Because we're not having to take in a
maximum of about 11,000 applications', assuming everybody in the homeowner
on these applied, which Keita and I have gene back and forth. I don't think
everybody would apply but they're more encouraged if they live here to get a tax
credit if they're paying their road maintenance dues, right. That was going to be a
huge burden that we said we absolutely just couldn't take in and the reality of
getting that much more staff wasn'ttealistically ever going to happen because
there's other departments with greater needs. But going this way does lessen the
work load on'the staff. It shifts some of it to a different group, but it wouldn't be
on our clerical staff that is short handed right now. I guess I don't want to say
that there's no work. I mean, there's still going to be some work, right, but it's
not thesame as taking in a bunch of applications.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah,you know, I'm really struggling with this because
onthe one hand, the County allowed for the creation of these substandard
subdivisions, right? So we have folks that are having to live on dirt roads; we
have first responders,police, responding in these really difficult conditions to
provide service. And these roads in their state really impact quality of life. And I
want to be helpful, and I think this bill is a vehicle to be helpful. I also think
about the bill that we had adopted as a Council that Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder put forward where there would be a mechanism for folks to apply for
improvements to their roads. So wondering where the status is on that, right?
And then I also hear you very honestly and diplomatically share the burden that
this kind of program would have on your team and that weighs on me pretty
significantly.
MS. MIURA: So I will say this definitely takes away a lot of the manual labor
that needs to be done because we'd be getting something hopefully in a shareable
format from the associations. While I can't speak to the effect of what happened
on the budgetary side with the public applying for some of the money that went to
Page 20
FC-14 July 8,2025
the private roads, I know Finance Director Nakagawa or Deputy Kekai can speak
to that. It does change how this is done. It's a tax credit rather than an annual
application so that part does change. Keita brought to my attention since I was
not here at the last meeting that there may be some changes needed within the
software only because in my mind I thought, well we already have a solar water
heater credit so it's similar. It's real easy. But that's a standard amount whereas
this amount may fluctuate depending on what that amount is.
I guess the only thing I'm a little surprised about was to see the $75, hearing that
there was somebody who did a testimony earlier that does $50, but our
calculations just so the Council Members know ranged up to the $400 or excuse
me, all the ones that we know. But our estimate was based up to the $400 credit.
So I think that's why you saw us playing with our calculators and not listening to
everything that was being discussed so I apologize if it didn't answer your
question.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I think what you're just`trying to describe to us is
implementation of this program is going,to be It sounds like it's going to be
complex and there's going to be a lot of fluctuation in terms of what folks get and
we are really going to be relying on road maintenance organizations to do their
part and report to you so,that you can do your jab in getting folks their credits.
Director, is there something that' ou wanted to share?
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Diane Nakagawa came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
l S: NAKAGAWA: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Diane
Nakagawa, Finance. I wanted to follow up on your question about our other
efforts'within the Public Works Department. I did ask them to come back and
give an update. In the 20�6 budget we did put$250,000 to this program and I
know that they,are working on the application. They probably have a better date
than I do at the moment but that is something that is looking to be rolled out soon
and they can answer more questions on that. So I just wanted to point out the
availability of those funding in that department that you had talked about. And
just overall,you know, I appreciate the continued dialogue that we've had on this
particular issue. We do have concerns still with staffing. There are costs
unknown with the software. We're still dealing with other changes; we're adding
staff now to deal with the other changes. So we need some time to get caught up
and deal with these things in an efficient manner and so we just appreciate you
hearing our challenges and our concerns as well.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for that. So are there other ways of providing
value to our taxpayers, other programs, methodologies that we could consider that
aren't as involved? This is one approach, right? And I just wonder if other
concepts have been due consideration.
Page 21
FC-14 July 8,2025
MS. MIURA: Are you speaking in regard to private roads or just in general?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah,private roads. Because we're trying to solve for a
very particular problem here, right? Folks have substandard roads and one way
that the County can provide some relief because we have not provided them,
right, with an adequate road is to provide relief on real property tax. So just
wonder if not this vehicle, are there other things that we could consider that aren't
as strenuous on your team? Just for the conversation.
MS. MIURA: I think not in particular to private roads, it will be what is already
in Council's wheelhouse, which is to lower the tax rate for homeowner program
or to increase the exemption. However, it'sgoing to affect everybody in that
same homeowner tax class rather than just a particular group',which would be the
private roads. And then taking a stepback,because I mean my,role in here is for
real property, not the budget. So that's why the director has to speak on the
budget.
But if you're looking at how the private roads,people on private roads can get
more services then that's a little bit broader topic for the administration as far as
putting more money into that sector. I think,ths was a way, if I'm not mistaken
from a policy standpoint;to get not only the individuals to pay the road
maintenance fees but for the road maintenance associations to do more
themselves without relying on Public Works. Because when I think about it as a
taxpayer, I'm like, okay, so you put money,in Public Works but that's more things
on Public Works to do, and you'have all of these roads and how far is that going
to get? Whereas an association that could collect more money could do more
with it than the County could. I feel like sometimes people hear the County is
involved and all of a sudden it costs more money to do anything. But that's just
my personal feeling.
MS:KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for that. I think it would be interesting to
perhaps,explore that idea that you just put forward. Are you recommending a
class? 'No, No.
MS. MIURA: No. No. I'm not recommending a tax class.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I'm giving Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder more ideas for more
conversations.
NfS. MIURA: No. I think there's the homeowner program. I mean the only
thing we haven't discussed, which my staff would absolutely just die and would
rather see a tax credit would be an abatement and that focuses on income. But
that opens a whole ball because not everybody files tax returns and it would
require tax returns.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Got it.
Page 22
FC-14 July 8,2025
MS. MIURA: And out of all the counties, I have nobody really to go to for this
policy because this isn't a policy within Hawaii or that I've been able to find
other communities are faced with, but we are unique.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That we are.
MS. MIURA: So I think this is a policy decision.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate you being here and adding
to the discussion. Chair, I yield.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Let's move over to
Ms. Kimball then please.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Council Member, for the
amendments based on our discussions. I had`a question for you and then a
question for the department. Have you,had any discussions with the road
maintenance organizations about their ability,either just practically or legally to
provide us with this information? I'm just coi ncerned about their ability if they
have any like privacy protections or things like that within their HOA rules. Has
that been explored?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINI'ELDER: As far as their bylaws, I haven't directly
discussed bylaws with them and what they can and cannot share. But they do
track this information; they are accountable to their entire residency to every
parcel owner, and they have to show their accounting. And so this actually,just
thatpresents a challenge to the community itself when you have an HOA taking
in hundreds of thousands of dollars;where it's being spent; who is contracted to
do what- And so yes,I mean, yes and no. I have had this discussion; they like the
idea; they can provide the information. Bylaws preventing privacy information,
thatis a valid ppint, but I haven't gotten there with some of the organizations.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. I'd like to maybe before the next hearing on this where
ever it ends up, have some of those maintenance organizations come and kind of
speak to their ability to provide this as well as, and I'll just signal Corporation
Counsel to kind of think about, or if you could share not today, but another time
like because there's the potential for a financial impact on an individual if the
ROA didn't provide the information that they provide, do they now have some
legal liability with respect to the individuals that they don't have now that they're
not willing take on. Does that make sense? Like if I don't get my tax credit
because my HOA didn't do their paperwork right they would now have that
liability. And so I wonder about that, and I'd like to get Corporation Counsel's
opinion, and I'd like to hear from some of the HOAs if they're comfortable taking
on that kuleana.
Page 23
FC-14 July 8,2025
My second question was mechanically for you guys I'm going to presume that the
HOAs or road maintenance organizations wouldn't necessarily know who's in a
homeowner class and who's not. So based on this you guys would be getting the
name of the owner, the TMK(Tax Map Key), the amount paid, anything else.
Mechanically, are you going to be able to just like apply that spreadsheet to the
RPT database and it would automatically sort out who's a homeowner and who's
not? Just kind of speaking to the idea of like more work for the department, is
that one of the things that—are you going to still have to go through them
individually to say, okay yes, no, yes, no, in terms of homeowners class?
MR. JO: So we won't have to go through them' individually. We would cross
reference that list against our list of all properties receiving a homeowners
exemption and it'd be a yes or no match kind'of scenario: I think the challenge
would be more of the credit is up to, as long as the road maintenance fee was less
than $250, it would be up to that$250 threshold, which might be different for
different TMKs. And so programming that into the system would'be more of a
challenge for us, not unsurmountable though.
MS. KIMBALL: Alright, thank you for that; And I appreciate the attempts to
kind of alleviate some of the work here on the department. I'll be supporting this
amendment because I think it pushes us more irithe right direction, but I still have
like I said some concerns. I would love to see a spreadsheet, and maybe you guys
have it down there, but if you could share it as a communication associated, if we
know the different private subdivisions'and.their current HOA rates. The other
thing that L wonder about is if some associations, the fee encompasses not only
roadwork but other things like how that might be parsed apart for this because I
would want it to be the funds that were specifically dedicated towards roadwork
and not towards other things. So if we could have some clarification about each
subdivision, what the fees are, and specifically what portion of those fees go
specifically towards road maintenance, I think that would help in making a
decision on moving this forward. Appreciate it.
MS. MIURA: Carl I clarify who you're asking that from? Is it from the maker of
the bill or us?
MS. KIMBALL: I think it should be from the maker, right?
MS. MIURA: I just want to be clear.
NfS. KIMBALL: Yes. No. From the maker please. That would be helpful to
me.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member
Kagiwada.
Page 24
FC-14 July 8,2025
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. This is just a kind of technical question I had.
So we just amended with the contents of Comm. 203.5, but this amendment
actually includes the old language of the original going up to $100 as opposed to
the $75. So are we amending back if we pass this to the $100?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can I?
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Please. Council Member.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, I did discuss that with LRB.
These can work together as two separate amendments it would bring us to the
same place was my understanding. If not then that can be worked out and I do
apologize. But my understanding was that would work aril that they could work
together.
MR. BROWN: If you don't mindy,Chair, I'm going to have Jacob Perry come
and kind of discuss because they're two separate amendments and there is
language in this one which is conflicting,frou an amendment you guys just made
which changed some of the looks like a dollar threshold there. If you guys don't
mind I'm going to have Jacob come and maybe talk us through that a little bit just
to make sure it's clean and you guys understand what we're exactly voting on.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Clerk.
MR. BROWN. He's coming right now.
1 S: KAGIWADA: Okay. I can fill time.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Okay. Please, Council Member.
MS:KAGIWADA: Thank you. I'm sorry to bring you guys back up. So
Administrator Miura, you mentioned that having the differing rates causes more
work, I think, for your staff. If you just had a flat rate of say $75 that people got,
would that lessen your work load?
MS. MICTRA: Yes. According to Keita. I'm only looking at him because I said
DHHL (Department of Hawaiian Home Lands) was no problem and let me tell
you, after two days they've corrected me. My staff has politely corrected me this
morning to not say it's not a problem. It would be easier if it was a flat rate.
Although I understand where the maker of the bill is coming from.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah. I mean my thought is they're already doing it up to
$250 without getting anything back. If they got the $75 credit, that's more than
they're getting now. They wouldn't necessarily reduce their amount, I wouldn't
think, since they weren't getting anything before. And it could still encourage
some of the people who haven't yet been paying to jump in and pay. So I would
Page 25
FC-14 July 8,2025
put it to the maker to consider. It would also obviously be much less burden on
our budget if we were paying at the $75 rate. So I would encourage you to look at
that.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. We'll have Mr. Perry
come answer your previous question if that's okay? Council Member, did you
need to restate it or Mr. Perry, are you clear on the question?
(Note: At this time, Legislative Specialist Jacob Perry came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. PERRY: Jacob Perry, Legislative Specialist, Office of the County Clerk. If
you could please restate your question?
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah. We just:amended this bill with the contents of
Comm. 203.5 and now we have Comm::203.E in front of us, which includes the
original language I believe, not the amended ones.
MR. PERRY: So because these two amendments are nonconflicting even though
they kind of like overlap,but"the;provisions, the wording is not conflicting. They
can be layered on top of each other. If both amendments were to pass in the
second draft the language wouldbe integrated.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. So there isn't a problem?
MR. PERRY: No.
MS. KAGIWADA: Even°though it's the original wording here.
MR.'PERRY: And it's happened a couple times in the past. Just kind of depends
sometimes how the Council Member wants to split up their amendment as long as
the wording is not conflicting; the amendments are not conflicting; they can be
layered.
MS. KAGIWADA: Alright. Thank you. Thanks for that. Appreciate it.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Perry.
MS. KAGIWADA: I don't have anything further at this time on this amendment.
Thank you.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Any other
discussion? Back to you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
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FC-14 July 8,2025
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. I don't want to take too much
time because we do have a 1:00 p.m. Committee coming in five minutes. Just to
Ms. Miura, I mean, this really did speak to your department's having to address
11,000 applications that we kind of settled in on,just roughly, versus having the
information supplied to you which will in turn reinforce that HOAs need to do a
really good job in bookkeeping and then provide that information to us and in a
number of worksheets or documentation as you may require or Diane may
require. That information can be provided to us, and we can go through it and
comb out what we need, which really does address the concerns of the department
from what I heard in the beginning. Is that right?
MS. MIURA: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay."So to the Council, we do have a
1:00 p.m. Committee starting. I believe what I would like to do today is to
hopefully get your support on the amendment, which gets us going in'the right
direction in two or three different ways;, And,then work on the bill from there at
your folks pleasure. Chair, I yield.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. I do have one
question for Administrator M;iura, if you don't mind? Thank you. Sorry. It's the
date of information to received by Finance potentially, would you have to
establish some sort of standardized form that they would submit or are you going
to be receiving all sorts of wild, crazy paper receipts from different HOAs? They
have different structures, different bookkeepers, so I'm just curious from an
outset, what are you thinking on, if this moves forward, approved what not, would
you have to establish some sort of standardized sort of portal that they kind of
submit?
MS. MIURA: ,If we get to the point this gets passed, in the rules we would
probably require an excel spreadsheet or some sort that we can not have to reenter
all that°information again, that we can hit it against our internal database easily.
ACTINGCHR. HUSTACE: Okay. Thank you for that. Appreciate that. Any
further discussion? Okay. Mr. Clerk, can we have a roll call please on the
amendment?
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FC-14 July 8,2025
Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 38, as amended to Draft 2, with
to Amend: the contents of Comm. 203.6 was carried by the following
(Approved) roll call vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Onishi, and Villegas —8.
Noes: Committee Acting Chair Hustace— 1:
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Okay. Back to Bill 38, as amended, with the past
communications. Any further discussion? Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder, please. Your light is on.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I just want to say thank you for your
patience and walking through all this with me. To the departments, thank you for
your time. LRB, everybody, thank you;-We have our committee at 1:00 p.m.
starting and we have some testimony here today for that. So my suggestion
would be to postpones and I'll continue to do some of the homework that was
given to me today and then,we have time to getready for our next committee if
that's meeting with the needs of the Council, I would greatly appreciate it. But I
yield, Chair.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr.'Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Any other
discussion? Do we have a motion, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Chair, motion to postpone Bill 38 to the
July 22'd committee. Thank you, Ms. Kimball.
ACTING CHIC. HUSTACE: We have a motion to postpone Bill 38, as amended,
to July22nd committee meeting. Sorry. Administrator?
MS. MAMA:A: I apologize. Keita will not be here, but I have to be in appeal
hearings that day. So if the Council's okay meeting or Committee without Real
Property Tax, you could. Otherwise could we postpone to August?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. That's fine. Okay, Mr. Clerk, if I
could restate the motion?
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Withdraw and restate, whatever you have to do.
MR. BROWN: If there wasn't technically a second that was noticed, there was
no official motion. So if you want to just amend your motion right now, we'll get
a second, should there be a second, and then we can vote on that.
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FC-14 July 8,2025
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Got you. Okay. Withdrawing the motion to
postpone to July 22nd; Mr. Chair, if I may?
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Please.
Vote on Motion Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to postpone Bill 38, as
to Postpone: amended to Draft 2, to August 5, 2025. Seconded by
(Approved) Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba,Hustace, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, }nishi,
Villegas, and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Without objection',that is our last item on the
agenda.
ADJOURN- There being no further business on our agenda'today, Acting Chair Hustace
MENT: adjourned the meeting at :00 p.m. Thank you very much.
Approved:
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Chair (Date)
Finance Committee
MK/tk
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