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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PCHSW 2025/07/08 (2024-2026) Policy Committee on Health, Safety, and Well-being 2"d Session Hawai`i County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo,Hawai`i July 8, 2025 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Policy Committee on Health, Safety, and ORDER: Well-being was called to order at 1:12 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Dennis "Fresh" Onishi, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi, Chair Ms. Heather L. Kimball,Vice Chair Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member(came in later) Mr. James E. Hustace, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms, Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Barbara Cigainero: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. (representing Action4Animals-Hawai`i) Jeffrey Powers: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. (representing Action4Animals-Hawai`i) Brenda Robertson: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. Gina Borgman: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in support. Cory Harden: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), comment. William Brown: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. Christin Greenland: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. (representing Jungle Cat Ladies Sanctuary) PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 Craig Moody: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Greg Baker: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Mar Mizunaka: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in support. Marilyn Rose: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Donna Chalmers: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Gregory Wing: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. L. No: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Lucritia Worster: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. Amanda Ka`ahanui: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. Sylvia Dolena: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. (representing Aloha Animal Advocates) Susan Tita: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. Dr. Karra Marh: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in support. Sharon Caldwell: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Abby Simmons: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Cecilia Alvarado: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Marilyn Guerin: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. Renee Rabb: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. Fay Cadabona: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Gwyndolin Gory: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Jeanmarie Theine: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Frances P. Pueo: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. Cindy Hartman: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. Page 2 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 Bret Nainoa Mossman: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in support. Jordan Lerma: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in support. Sandra Alstrand: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Jennifer Schneider: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Ian Cole: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Rachel Roiblati: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Layla Beatte: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Shalaye Newman: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Velda Lawrence-Breen: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Violet Beatte: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in opposition. Paula Pippin: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. Lauren Turnbaugh Foo: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. (representing Hawai`i Animal Alliance) Danyel Erickson: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in support. Ann Kawabata: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in support. Harold Kawabata: Bill 51 (Comm. 283), in support. Bethany Letoto: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in support. Curt Shalaman: Bill 51 (Comm. 283),in opposition. CHR. ONISHI: Thank you very much. Okay, so, for those who are here for the 3:00 p.m. meeting. This is going to be pushed back until we finish our resolution and our bill in my committee. Okay. So,Mr. Clerk can you read in Res. 227-25. Page 3 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 ORDER OF The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. Res. 227-25: ADOPTS THE COUNTY OF HAWAII 2025 MULTI-HAZARD MITIGATION PLAN Reference: Comm. 361 Intr. by: Council Member Onishi (B/R) Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend adoption of Res. 227-25. Seconded by Mr. Hustace. CHR. ONISHI: Civil Defense can you come up? You can introduce yourself. (Note: At this time, Civil Defense Administrative Officer Barry Periatt came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. PERIATT: I'm Barry Periatt. I'm an Administrative Officer with the Hawai`i County Civil Defense Agency. CHR. ONISHI: Okay, and then,you can go on with the presentation. MR. PERIATT: Okay. The multi-hazard mitigation plan is a requirement put on us by Federal law, and it makes the County eligible for mitigation grants and preparedness grants. Without the plan,we're not eligible for federal funding. Our current plan expires on September 18th of this year. We're required to have a plan in place, or we lose the eligibility. The current plan is being reviewed by the Hawai`i Emergency Management Agency. They have to review the plan. And it's also being reviewed at this time by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, who accepts the plan but on the condition that the County adopts the plan. And that's why we're here today. Because if the County doesn't adopt the plan,the plan is not valid. I can tell you,the plan,we did a lot of revisions this year primarily focusing the goals and the objectives in the plan to focus it more on moving forward;keeping it in alignment with resilience. The whole theme for emergency management is creating resilient communities; the whole community approach doing that. And we put a lot of that into the plan,the revisions and stuff. It addresses the hazards that can impact us, and there wasn't a whole lot of revisions on the hazards. Not a lot has changed. Just some things updated for what's impacted us. And with that,the actions to addressed things. It's a five-year plan. That's the horizon for the plan. We're not trying to address things 20 years from now; we're addressing immediate concerns. Page 4 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 So, we have, I believe 38 actions in the plan that will seek federal funds; grant money to implement over the course of these five years. And that's what's before you today. CHR. ONISHI: Thank you very much. Members? Mr. Hustace, I heard you. MR. HUSTACE: Thanks Chair. Thank you Mr. Periatt,I appreciate you being here today. If you could just give us an overview of some of the public outreach. I think a number of us have been in some of those meetings on kind of the community engagement side. If you could speak to that level about the work you've put out there in terms of community input as well as the Steering Committee. MR. PERIATT: With Community outreach, that's a requirement by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) to get community involvement. It's the whole community concept in there. So, we had community meetings. We hold them on each side on the island. We had an initial meeting on each side of the island which was in-person. We had meeting after the goals and objectives were determined. That meeting was to gives the goals and objectives to the public and to solicit actions from the public. The first two meetings on each side of the island, well they were well-attended on the Kona side. We had five people on the Hilo for the first one. I don't think we had any for the second one. And the final meeting after the plan was completed and being introduced to the community, we only did it via Na Leo. So, we advertised, and it was recorded, and it was broadcast live,the presentation there. We actually had three people show up for that. I don't know how many people viewed it online,but it's still available to look at. So,that was the extent of our community outreach. There was a Steering committee. We bring in individuals across the County departments, across State departments, federal agencies, and community members. We primarily focus on our CERT (Community Emergency Response)teams,because they're out there volunteering and doing things. So,we engage them primarily to get that perspective from the community from the non-governmental individuals in there. And they're the individuals who helped refine the goals and the objectives, and then vetted the actions that came in. MR. HUSTACE: So,it's a combination of both the core planning and community input that kind of ranked the hazard risks then. How is that kind of spelled out in that course of action? Page 5 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 MR. PERIATT: It was. Part of the community engagement involves surveys. So, even if you did not intend, you know, Survey Monkey—. So, even if you didn't attend the meeting, you could take the survey and put your input in there. So,the feedback from those surveys was considered when we're ranking the hazards. And what we also look at is the last five years, since the plan is rewritten every five years, is what has impacted us in the last five years and what is the severity? So,brushfires has always been the number one thing that comes in there. Other things may be more catastrophic to us such as a tsunami or an earthquake,but we're just not getting the impacts like we're getting with brushfires and flooding events. So, you would say, well, why is a brushfire rated higher than an earthquake or a tsunami? Well,the reason,because it's impacting us in greater frequency. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you. And if I could dive into some of the recommended actions a little bit and kind of get your thoughts on. You know, these are those priorities recommended from all these steps and stages based upon the ranking of the risks of hazards and whatnot. And then categorize some of these recommended actions. These are in place in the plan and something that sits with Civil Defense. But I'm assuming that there's going to be this collaboration piece moving forward to kind of tackle some of the challenges. MR. PERIATT: Yes, what they've been putting in place with plan,because across the nation,people or jurisdictions put actions in the plan, and then they never execute them. Sometimes it's valid reasons, they couldn't get the funding. Other times they just ran out of time. So, of the actions in the plan, Civil Defense is responsible for some. There are personal actions that we're looking at. The Department of Public Works has many actions; Department of Water Supply has actions in there. DEM(Department of Environmental Management) has actions in there. Obviously,the Wastewater Treatment Plant is a big part of that. So,it's just not Civil Defense who has actions. But we are responsible for shepherding those actions and making sure people are seeking funds for the plan or the action and implementing it. MR. HUSTACE: For example, some of them relate to Planning Department. Was there any sort of integration with the process of the General Plan in the works that we're going to be seeing pretty soon through all the work of the planning commissions and whatnot? MR. PERIATT: We work with the Planning Department. Have we specifically sat down and correlated actions in the Hazard Mitigation Plan with the General Plan? We have not done that. That's been my goal for a while to make that happen. Page 6 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 I see the multi-hazard mitigation plan as an overarching plan,because it identifies the threats. And then the General Plan is supposed to address how we deal with those threats on a daily basis. Be it, through Zoning and Building Codes, and that nature. MR. HUSTACE: I guess my last question is what are your recommendations on taking some of these action plans and actions that are recommended actions? We don't want everyone to be sitting in these silos. And I know you're taking to heart about how we collaborate across these departments. So,what are some of the recommendations you have to engage with some of these steps and try and tackle some of these challenges our communities face? MR. PERIATT: Well,it's simply us sitting down and communicating with Planning, and Research and Development; and Public Works. Because those are the major players. As far as for us for community safety;being able to prepare the community. So, getting together, we meet on a fairly regular basis. We don't have a scheduled meeting for that. But we do talk about plans and projects they're implementing. We'd like to make that a more formal process, and we probably should. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Administrative Officer, appreciate your thoughts. Thank you, Chair. CHR. ONISHI: Okay, sure. Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Thank you for being here, and just on behalf of my community, the feedback from the ham radio sessions you folks did has been very positive. So, thank you for that outreach, and tell your team for that work. Is this particular plan exclusive to natural hazards? I noticed that things like cybersecurity, epidemic, terrorists; you know,these human causes hazards are not included. Is there a reason? MR. PERIATT: FEMA is refocusing. They were originally intended only to address natural hazards, that's what FEMA exists for. And so, they're refocusing like the multi-hazard mitigation plan back to that. So,they did not want any of the man-caused hazards in here. That's primarily the responsibility of the Department of Homeland Security, and I can't tell you what they're doing to address that. But the multi-hazard mitigation plan now is only supposed to address natural hazards. MS. KIMBALL: Interesting. That aligns with some of the information that I've received from the National side as well, that the Administration is really trying to Page 7 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 focus more on prevention instead of response, which you know, obviously, this multi-hazard mitigation plan is intended to do. That said,my hope is that there'll be funding deadlines up to actually address the prevention side, which was going to be my next question. This process was happening kind of simultaneously with the General Plan update. Is some of this included, or is that something that we're going to have to pay attention to as we take up the General Plan starting tomorrow? MR. PERIATT: There wasn't collaboration per se about specifically addressing the General Plan with the multi-hazard mitigation plan. So,you would have been more cognizant when you're looking at the General Plan seeing what is in there and what could be implemented based on the multi-hazard mitigation plan. MS. KIMBALL: Okay,thank you for that. So,it's just something for us to think about looking at the action items in here with that lens as we take up the General Plan starting tomorrow. Because I do think that's one of the places where, as Council Member Hustace was talking about,that integration is important in terms of decision making,particularly around land use. MR. PERIATT: That is one of actions in the plan now to integrate the multi-hazard mitigation plan into the other plans in the County. MS. KIMBALL: Agreed, yeah. That's it for questions. I mean a lot of work to do here. I do think there's opportunities for federal funds for some of these items that you proposed, and I'd like to offer to help with that. So,let's talk offline. MR. PERIATT: Yes, ma'am. MS. KIMBALL: Thanks, I yield Chair. CHR. ONISHI: Thank you. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thanks Chair. Thank you for being here. I know we're behind schedule, so, I apologize, and thank you for your patience. Something I've been thinking about,is when we have—this kind of goes back to Val Poindexter again. Not against you,Ms. Kimball,it's just that she said something one time that caught me off guard, which is, what if we have multiple events at one time? And I said, yeah, okay but the reality, and I was thinking about it. If the eruption had taken out PGV (Puna Geothermal Venture), and we lost 30 percent of our firm power on island immediately,then what does the County do? It's not so much, I mean, it is a County or it's not. Because County residents depend on the utility to provide the power. Page 8 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 But I'm looking over the multi-hazard mitigation plan. Do you folks take that into account when you look at residents and our hazard mitigation? I'm looking into generators for different places in case of a power failure. But in case of a larger event, what happens when we have a catastrophe and lose power,is that included in the plan? MR. PERIATT: In this plan,we address emergency power. So, we do not address—for instance,these are projects that are supposed to be completed in a five-year period, not a solution sitting on the shelf for this particular plan. So,it doesn't address something like that. If that were to happen, obviously, the County doesn't have the resources to address that. That's where FEMA comes into play. And it would be a request for FEMA to come in, as we need these resources. And do, in fact, 249th power generation unit, which is based at Fort Shafter on Oahu. They're our prime power unit. They were positioned here for a reason, and that is to be able to provide power of that nature to a community when this happens, So,they have generators that can power grids. They have the capability of doing that. So,that would be a resource that we would call upon to do that. That's a temporary solution, it's a stop gap until we can get power generation developed, or restored or constructed. But there are solutions out there. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so the mitigation plan, you work with the utility to kind of grasp what we're going to be looking at? MR. PERIATT: Yes, we talked with HELCO (Hawaiian Electric Light Company) on that, and HELCO is doing a tremendous job right now. In fact, our grid is probably the most secure one in the State, as far as redundancy and backup. HELCO does an excellent job on this island with that. And we do work with them on a regular basis. In fact, I'm sure—you know there's a power outage right now in South Kohala, and that was due to the windstorm that happened here. It's now a PSPS (Public Safety Power Shutdown) shutdown. And so, HELCO informs us, and they're going out and addressing that situation. So,we work with them on a daily basis. And we do look at what their needs are, and they communicate that to us although they are a private entity. So, they do keep a lot of things close to their vests. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you,Mr. Periatt. Thank you, Sir. CHR. ONISHI: Okay, any other members? Before I go back to Mr. Hustace, anybody else? Okay, go ahead,Mr. Hustace. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Thank you Mr. Periatt. One of the recommended actions is just a needs assessment for critical infrastructure. Is this Page 9 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 really needs assessment of what currently exists or also the needs of what could be complimentary to what may be lacking in those communities? MR. PERIATT: That needs assessment is primarily intended to focus on existing facilities and identifying—it's a BARA assessment. Best available refuge area. So, determining where in a facility people can shelter where they have the best chance at surviving an incident. And it's primarily focused on high wind events. MR. HUSTACE: Okay, thank you. And then one other question on what are the recommendations and actions was to conduct a study to determine feasibility for an incentive-based program. But it's specifically for against the impacts of earthquakes and tropical cyclones. MR. PERIATT: So, this is individual resident retrograde thing working with Finance about possibly getting tax breaks or incentives for people to do the retrofits to their houses. You know, our houses are good for the earthquakes for the most part,because we have a lot of wood construction in there. They don't do good in windstorms. So,there's a paradox there. MR. HUSTACE: Sure. The question I have is whether or not we should expand that,because one of our higher risks as indicating by the risk ranking is wildfire. So, should wildfire preventative measures,mitigation efforts on private homeowners; could that be added to this sort of feasibility study? MR. PERIATT: It can be. And like I said, we're in the review process. it has not been accepted by FEMA yet. So, if we wanted to make an addition such as that, which I think is a good addition, allowing or incentivizing people to create defensive space around their residence. That's one of the main things fire wise. We work with them a lot as well. The Fire Department works with them as well in the communities to make sure that people are trying to do these things. And it wouldn't hurt to incentivize it. I agree there. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you. I appreciate that because we're just trying to match what the ranking of wildfire being one of the top. So,then partying in our homes—that possibility of providing that relief there might be a good outcome MR. PERIATT: I'll let the contractor know as soon as I get out of here that we'd like to add that. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you,Mr. Periatt, appreciate it. Thank you, Chair. CHR. ONISHI: Okay. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Something near and dear to me, as you probably know is roads. Have you folks looked into how roads affect people's Page 10 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 ability to get in and out of certain areas when we have wildfires, volcanic activity, tsunamis? And how is that addressed? MR. PERIATT: We do look into it. In fact,we got sued back in 2009 about connectivity and stuff. But that's neither here nor there. But we do look into it. And one of the things right now in Waikoloa Village,that's one of primary concerns because that's one of the most vulnerable communities with wildland fire. I mean they're sitting in fire central. We just finished the review process for a study to be done. One, on evacuation study for Waikoloa Village, and then to produce a plan from that. So,we're tackling it based on, like the highest threat communities. So, that's going to be an ongoing thing. But right now,with wildland fire being at Waikoloa Village is the first one, and I'll have to defer to the Fire Department on which one we're going to look at next. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay,just to put it other there, I think it was the 90's, there was a fairly large fire. We've got a few in recent,I mean this year, fires in Puna, which is you know,you think abnormal because we're the wet side of the island. But if there happened to be a fire in our area, and it's happened before. We see drought more and more. And that's not so occasional anymore but more and more frequently. If something were to happen,you're dealing with a number of issues. Increased density, no available water infrastructure,poor infrastructure as far as roadways. And I just really don't think that we take that into account. Because places like Waikoloa scream problem in high winds, incredibly dry,lack of roads. I mean, same issues. But in Puna, we have the same thing. Just,we're a little bit wetter. So,I would just put out to the Administration and to you folks to take that into account when you look at how do masses amount of people get out on limited or zero infrastructure, and what that looks like, as part of your grant plan. MR. PERIATT: I'll take that to heart,because I do agree with you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. I yield, Chair. CHR. ONISHI: Okay. Any other members? Okay, I just have one. So, I know the public, once they start watching this,right? The question is going to be, national situations we got right now,funding wise,right? Because then we're looking at future projects or future funding from FEMA. Any thoughts on that or how can you assure the public that we'll be okay? Page 11 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 MR. PERIATT: Okay, what I can tell you is what Region 9 Director for FEMA told us, and that is funding will be more scrutinized right now. And the issue FEMA is having with a lot of the grant funds they've put other there for projects is that the money isn't utilized, and it ends up coming back. And so, they're thought process is, why are we going to give you more money if you're not spending it? But there will be money available. It's not a scarcity;it's just going to be more scrutinized. And if we're not spending the money they've already given like the Lahaina wildfires; we had our own fires over here. Our projects are before FEMA right now for review whether those are going to be funded or not. If they are funded,then it's incumbent on us to spend that money to insure that we're being a good steward with federal dollars and will look favorably on us in the future. CHR. ONISHI: Okay good, thank you very much. And we thank you for coming in front of us to do your presentation. MR. PERIATT: It's my pleasure, Sir. CHR. ONISHI: All those in favor of approving Resolution 227-25 and moving to the full Council, please say, "aye." Those opposed? Vote on Res. 227-25: The motion to recommend the adoption of Res. 227-25 on (Approved) first reading was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba,Hustace,Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Onishi—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz— 1. Excused: None. CHR. ONISHI: Thank you very much. Mr. Clerk let's go into Bill 51. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Page 12 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 Bill 51: AMENDS CHAPTER 4, ARTICLE 3, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO ANIMALS Prohibits the feeding of feral or stray animals on County-owned property. Reference: Comm. 283 Intr.by: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder (Note: Comm. 283.1 from Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder; and Comm. 283.2 from Council Member Kagiwada,transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 51 were circulated.) Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to recommend passage of Bill 51 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Villegas. CHR. ONISHI: Okay, go ahead. MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay,thank you for the testimony today. I appreciate everyone who came in opposed and unopposed, I do. It's good to hear everyone's support or hate for it. And I totally understand both sides. But it's just good to hear the perspectives from each side. I like having a well-rounded discussion. I believe a good way to start this is, I have three cats; I have three dogs; I have 30 chickens, and I have two peacocks. I have Tilapia, Goldfish; I love my animals. I frequently visit the Humane Society for my animals through adoptions. I've worked with Aloha `IIio. I've worked with the Humane Society. I've worked with Animal Control. I listened to our County Recreation folks; I've listened to our Parks folks; I listened to our Environmental Management staff. And that is the precursor for this bill. One of my cats,my favor cat who I call Sassy I found on the road in HPP (Hawaiian Paradise Park). She was starving. We nursed her back to health, and she is our favorite cat. She's an orange little fluffball. And I have two other cats, but Sassy is my favorite. So,I'm not an animal-hater. Statements were made that, you know, this lacks compassion. And I'm listening to these comments,but I think it's proper to level-set this bill by saying this isn't a, "I hate animals,let's convict people for feeding them bill, or a starvation bill." This is a bill based on what I've seen and heard over the last six years and myself being an animal owner and lover. So, with that said, the bill itself is pretty straightforward. I think everyone has heard all the testimony, and I spoke with Lauren (Foo) at length over the last two or three months while this bill was floating around in different departments. Page 13 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 I spoke to Parks and Rec about the bill, and they actually offered an amendment to the Council. You'll find in front of you, Communication 283.1. I'm bringing this to your attention, and I want to give the Council an option before I make this motion. You know,today,I heard a lot of testimony and being a logical person,I walk through the logical aspects of why I brought this bill in. I remember in high school,learning about learned response and behavioral responses. And I really do feel like when we feed animals, we promote a behavior both on the people side and the cats side or the dogs side; or whatever animals it may be. And there is some confusion today too. This isn't about just cats. This is about all animals seeing this issue across the board. But we also,by feeding, we begin to build a behavior in our feral animal colonies, that promotes them coming to certain areas and becoming more of an issue. I'm not saying anything about the trap and neuter program that currently exists within Parks and Recreation. But what I'm saying is,we begin enabling people and the cats, and dogs, or whatever it may be to come to a certain area,because they've learned that response. That to me is a problem. I've listened to Parks and Recreation staff talk about what they clean up every day. I listen to Environmental Management(DEM) staff saying what they're cleaning up at our water-filling stations; at our transfer facilities. And I begin to understand that we have a problem. I appreciate that this is not viewed in a nice way. But I can't logically say that we should kill the bill,because it will do a negative. Because at that point, you're asking me to do nothing and expect things to change. I've heard that way too many times, and I will not do that. So,to the Council, you have an amendment in front of you. This is from Parks and Recreation at their request and through Corporation Counsel,which would leave the Trap-and-Neuter(TNR) program being run by Lauren in place and allow to keep happening and provide the County to authorize or contract a person or an organization to trap,remove, impound, or seize animals as our Code allows or the Hawai`i Revised Statutes' (HRS) allowance. That would leave this program in place, and it would answer a lot of the opposing testimony. Now, on the other side of that,the amendment would do that, it would allow the Trap-and-Neuter program to continue. Without the amendment, that is questionable. But I did hear two sides of the room today asking for two different things. One is to stop it completely, which would be the bill in its current form; two, is to stop but allow the trap-and-neuter-and-replace program to continue, which is our other option. So,I think I make the motion to amend,I want to hear from the Council on what we think as a body and ask questions of Parks and Recreation; Animal Control. Page 14 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 I just want to say a couple more things too. I thought about this for a while. We were cautioned by DLNR (Department of Land and Natural Resources) about our Nene population. I completely agree. We have endangered species we're trying to protect. And you cannot say that cats don't have an impact on Nene; you cannot. Animal control, they're budget has more than doubled in the last few years. And we continue as a County to work with nonprofits across the board. And I know this,because I've seen it come through in our Nonprofit Grant in-Aid program. I've seen it in our budget, and I've heard from our own director that we continue to. And I know the organizations that continue to do that work in the community. So, I can't unhear that, and I can't say that we're not helping the situation currently. Because we're also contracted with the folks in the yellow shirts, I believe, to do the same work that we're saying we don't do. Maybe not,but Aloha Animal Alliance or Lauren, who is she with? So, they're currently working with the County to do their trap-and-neuter-and-replace program. So, are we doing something as a County? Yes. Am I looking to change it? Yes. Can we do nothing and say that we did something? No. That doesn't work, and I think we can all agree on that. So, to the Council Members,I'd like to hear your side of it; how you feel about it. These are our parks; these are our transfer stations; these are our beach parks. This is everything. Each one of us is understanding of this affects our districts, and I want to hear it from you folks before you go to the amendment. CHR. ONISHI: Okay,members? Mr. Hustace. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council Member. You alluded to some of the conversations you had with Parks and Recreation, and Animal Control and DEM. So,if I could actually have Parks and Rec come up and kind to speak to the conversations, and the work that your staff does at our park places. Thank you,Director. (Note: At this time,Director of Parks and Recreation Clayton Honma, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. HONMA: Aloha everyone. Clayton Honma,Director of Parks and Recreation (P&R). We had conversations with Council Member Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder in regards to this bill. And we do have some of the amendments that we asked him to put in. Page 15 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 But just a brief history. Earlier I served with Mayor Billy Kenoi from 2009 through 2016, actually. During his Administration,I'll say this, that Lili`uokalani Gardens, maybe we had a couple cat colonies of about 30 to 40 cats in each colony down there. But today, we're looking at what's happening down at Lili`uokalani Gardens, we've got like 600 cats in that whole peninsula down there. So, we kind of see the problem has grown over the years. When I left in 2016, it was still about 30 to 40 and a couple colonies in that area. Also, in Kona we have the issue at the Old Airport where we work with Advocats, and we've allowed spaying and neutering out in Kona with Advocats. And they do have a pretty good management program as well too. But over there,we also see the population has grown quite extensively over the years. We've allowed Aloha Animal Alliance on this side to have spay-neutering programs. At our Butler Building near the Civic Auditorium to host it, add action to it, that negativity to try to keep and manage the cat populations on both sides of the island. But you know, we've got cat population and feeders throughout the whole island as well. So,it is an issue. But again,it's not only cats. We also have chickens that are out there; we have feral pigs that are out in our parks that are tearing up our ballfields. And we've got to go and repair the damage the pigs do as well too. And it's just not isolated to just Hilo. That's out in Pahoa; that's out Kohala;that's out in Waimea, you know, so we do have issues everywhere as far as feeding of animals go in our parks. So, I strongly support this bill in which, yeah,we've got to do something about the feral animals in our parks. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you,Director, and if you could just speak a little more about some of the waste cleanup that the crews have to pick up, feces,those sorts of things from all sorts of things from all feral animals,right? At these places, and even carcasses. MR. HONMA: Absolutely. So, you know, our park caretakers not only go and mow our parks,but they also clean up everything as well too. And the feces and the defecation that the feral animals do attract a lot of flies to the areas as well too. So, many of our patrons at our beach parks and our parks out there,they go out there to picnic. They bring food,but these flies all come on to the food. And the number of flies that come to our places; you know,Lili`uokalani Gardens is a fine example of where, you know,by the Sumo ring,if you go and have a picnic there, it's not a pleasant experience when you have to deal with the flies that are attracted to that area. But we've got to clean up those areas. We've got to keep it as clean as possible so it's safe for everyone, actually. Every day we've picking up excrements over there. We rake and we try to do our best. Page 16 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 We cannot do anything about the defecation. But about the hard stuff,that we can go ahead and clean that up. You know, we try to do the best that we can. Currently, as Maka`eo, we did have the beach volleyball close up out in Honaunau. And they want us to open up the beach volleyball pit at Maka`eo again. But it's unsafe for us to open that pit because we've got to clean it up because it's been used as a big litterbox over the years. And sand replacement is just going to be quite expensive to replace that sand. But you know, at the same time, we've got to do something about the issues that we do have there to make it clean and make it a usable recreational facility again. You know,to be once used by the kids,the kupuna, and the adults who all enjoy beach volleyball on that side of the island. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Director. Appreciate your time. Do we have someone here from Environmental Management. CHR. ONISHI: No. MR. HUSTACE: Okay. Alright. I was just curious about the conditions and what the crews are doing at those spaces too. If I could have the Administrator from Animal Control? Thank you, Director. (Note: At this time,Animal Control Administrator Matthew Runnells, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. RUNNELLS: Hello everybody. Matt Runnells,Administrator for Animal Control. Good to see you all today. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you,Administrator. Thanks for being here with us. MR. RUNNELLS: Feels like this is a marathon,huh? MR. HUSTACE: If you could—you know, some of the questions and some of the testimonies have come up about enforcement. Could you just speak to that? Either the constraints you have; the support you need for enforcement. Whether it's abandonment or enforcement is some of these spaces. What does that look like for you? What do you carry out now; what can you do; what needs to be done; what support do you need? MR. RUNNELLS: Well, a lot of the enforcement is really a manpower issue. You know, we right now have maybe ten officers for the entire agency. And so, on any given day, maybe we have one or two officers on for this entire half of the island. I mean,just over this Fourth of July weekend, which was technically supposed to be our busiest weekend,I had two officers scheduled on for those days, and they both called out sick. So, it was me. Page 17 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 So,you know,it is a manpower issue. If we had a little more manpower, that would be a little bit easier for us to enforce. But from a standpoint of the numbers, you know, we cover the same amount of space and same distance and everything as the Police Department with less stations and less than one percent of what the Police Department uses. And so,for us those laws for animal abuse and animal abandonment also apply to the Police Department and should be applied equally. So,you know, I wish I could say I had more staff to be able to do it. To be honest, it's just not functional with what we have. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you,Administrator,I appreciate that. There's also been some conversations about, and I welcome your thoughts on this—you know, a lot of the conversations are about cats,but I know there are other feral animals. If you could just speak specifically to the cat sanctuary idea, and your thoughts on that. MR. RUNNELLS: I mean, you know,I know there's a lot of back and forth. There's a lot of people that have opposition to it; there's a lot of people that are wanting it. From a standpoint of our shelters, you know,people are calling us all the time for a location to take their cats; they're healthy homed cats that we can't from our standpoint we don't have the space for it. As a policy, we take-in sick or injured feral or homed cats. If you'd like to surrender your cat then that's fine. But people that trap their cats and they're perfectly healthy, we don't take in. And so,is there a need for some place for those individuals to take a cat or a chicken or any of those? Yes, so if a sanctuary serves that function, and processes it,then yes, that is a need within the County. Because right now, all those animals,ultimately yet, they do get dumped. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Administrator. Thank you, Chair. Appreciate the time. CHR. ONISHI: Okay. Ms. Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you for being here. I also want to start off, and I'll try to talk fast. Thank you to all the testifiers that came. Your reputation proceed you as being vigilant,passionate, and deeply dedicated. I also want to thank those that showed up to testify in support of this bill. Because a lot of them are afraid of you, quite frankly. A lot of people won't step up, step in, or speak up, as it comes to the treatment and the issues that we have with feral cats. The times I went to the restroom and the number of just people seen on my way to the bathroom; each one of them is like—well,I have seen and heard the arguments that were made here today about responsible capture, spay-and-neuter, and release being a viable option and all I have seen is our feral cat colonies Page 18 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 increase. And yes,there will always be those that manage your colony in a more responsible way that have minimized it. Unfortunately, you're not the only ones managing cat colonies. And the fact that we even have something called a cat colony on our island is concerning. They are an invasive species, and they have done massive damage. And yes, cats are precious. All creatures are precious. But a pet cat is different than a feral cat,point blank. • I have dogs. I just rescued a Mina bird from the Civic Center at an Open Space Land Committee meeting the other day. And I'm trying to figure that out. And I would like to release that one back. My issue with the cat spay-neuter, and release is the last"R". They should not be released. We should not actually have feral cat colonies on this island. Thank you to the members of DLNR who came. You're scientists, you're doctors, you're experts in your field. You know way more data and statistics than I do, and I know that it's really hard to sit here and be that person that states everything that you've studied, and it's not in alignment with the passionate belief systems of people who have. They volunteer your time; volunteer your resources, and you're caring for the best you can in a compassionate way, creatures that you come in contact with. I also want to thank Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. This took huge courage. I've talked to a number of previous Council Members, and most would avoid anything to do with feral animals because it becomes such a contentious issue. I want to point out some of the ironies. Cat colonies being fed in our County parks where there are beaches, we've already heard the damage its done. I can't take my yellow Lab dogs to a County park that is a beach. We can't have unleashed in a County beach. Cat colonies, not appropriate for there. This legislation does not call for starvation of cat colonies. It creates a requirement that if cat colonies are going to continue, they must be moved off of public property. We have fought long and hard for the advocation and the humane outreach with people experiencing homelessness in our County parks. And there's also a number of issues related to that with feces, and rubbish, and whatnot. But none of those people are more important than the collective good of our community. And that's our job, is to insure that our public spaces are safe and healthy for everyone. Predominantly, our responsibility is the humans; next in my mind would be our native species. Unfortunately,invasive species aren't going to be high up on that list. It makes me sound like a jackass, I'm okay with that today. Page 19 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 So, it's not starvation. It's not about cruelty;it's not about empathy. It's about wisdom. These cat colonies were created, and propagated, and perpetuated on public property. No,that never should have happened,but does fall to County. Pass leadership; also,this isn't an issue anybody ever thought about. It's kind of like paid parking. Who knew that then,people would start feeding these cat colonies. And yes,people dump their cats at places they know there would be food. I worked for Kona Brewing Company for years. The feeders came;there was passive amounts of food all over the place,right under the restaurant. All of a sudden, we have massive fly issues; mongoose issues; the smell issues, all those things. Once again, not everybody's an irresponsible feeder managing a colony. But when I look at those cats they didn't have clipped ears. They aren't getting neutered. No, we have done more in this Council in this term for providing funding directly to the nonprofits that work responsibly to provide these services. It is impossible for you to provide all the animal control services needed for this island. This island is bigger than the entire State in one place. So,the opportunity for propagation of invasive species is massive. But they will come to the places where they are perpetually fed. So, you know,I can support this amendment. I think there's wisdom in this. There's organizations that are being collaborative connectors working with County and our Parks and Rec Department. I mean, I can't get the volleyball court opened up for the kids because it's a sandpit. And the feeders at the Old Airport. It's a mess,it's a mess. No,this isn't a perfect solution,but transitioning from public spaces that are meant to serve the public is a wisdom I can't step away from today. So,I also want to advise those testifying, stop using the term `Aloha' as if,us making tough choices here is not `Aloha'. I'm a mother, I have to make tough choices, and my daughter told me, "That's not with aloha." I mean, come on, that's prophesizing Hawaiian terminology, and we don't need to be doing that here. I yield. CHR. ONISHI: Thank you. Ms. Kimball. MS. KT BALL: Thank you. Thank you Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder for bringing this forward. I think it is something we need to have a wide-ranging discussion on—are you all familiar with the term wicked problem? Intellectually, it's the kind of problem where there isn't a clear solution; the problem is not well defined. Page 20 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 The solutions are like one shot only. You get a chance to try it; there's no way to test the theory. It's a mess. They're difficult. And this is one of those types of problems. And so, I'm going to approach this legislation from the ferric criteria that I would look at any bill. Is it needed? Is it in our jurisdiction? Is it enforceable and are there unintended consequences? Is it needed? I think it's clear. The effect on the Native Hawaiian bird population,the effect on Monk seals, the public health and safety issues. Oh,I wanted to start with saying,I have two cats. Both of them were abandoned. We captured them; we spayed and neutered them. They're ours now. Elliot and Eggroll—I didn't name them. Okay,back to my argument. The need is there, obviously. And I want to say that I personally agree with Council Member Villegas. Like cats in beach parks, it's not something that belongs. Jurisdiction, the HRS requires to deal with dangerous animals,inhumane treatment of animals. There actually isn't anything in our HRS that requires us to manage, spay or neuter feral animals, correct? MR. RUNNELLS: Unhomed animals? MS. KIMBALL: Correct. MR. RUNNELLS: I mean there's nothing specific. There are some touches—I mean most laws that cover animals touch on things,but they don't necessarily well define some of it. MS. KIMBALL: I think this is an important note here. I would also say,there already say,there already are according to our—there was mentioned maybe have anti-abandonment laws. We do not in the County. There are at the State level, though. MR. RUNNELLS: I think if you look,it's looped into the Cruelty section. So,it is covered in that just in a very small snippet. MS. KIMBALL: Right. So,who's the enforcer on that? MR. RUNNELLS: That would be police or us. But,when it becomes a felony charge,the police usually carry that to the Prosecutor's Office. It's not Animal Control. MS. KIMBALL: Right. So, would that typically be enforced from the standpoint of,if somebody drops off a box of kittens. Is that considered animal cruelty under that as a felony charge? Page 21 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 MR. RUNNELLS: It is. I mean, some of it is hard to enforce because we don't know who the people are. It's the same thing with a lot of these locations they were talking about. Unless you have a clear defined evidence of, you know,no one is going to pursue it because there's not enough to actually to take in. Neither the Prosecutor's Office probably wouldn't pursue it to the point that it would need to be taken to court. MS. KIMBALL: So, I think that this same bill has the same problem,if I may in the sense that, I would think that this is actually unenforceable. Regardless of whether or not you philosophically agree with it. If you can imagine, somebody gets a notice of violation that they're feeding a stray or they're feeding a feral animal. They're argument is going to be I didn't know it was stray. How do I know that this doesn't come from somebody's house,right? I mean,that ambiguity alone, I think, is making it unenforceable. The amendment that you proposed,which I shouldn't talk about yet, about feeding. What is actual feeding? Oh, I just dropped it. I mean, there's an issue here about enforceability that I think we need to seriously discuss. It might be better enforceability wise,to deal with abandonment than it is with feeding. I just want to put that out there as a suggestion. Finally,unintended consequences. You know,it was mentioned a couple of times that if you were to prohibit feeding, then the feeding community would go somewhere else. So, they've been areas where there has been enforcement from the State side around feeding, and that led to folks going into the woods in the nearby area and setting up their feeding stations there. So,that's one of the concerns that I have,is that this wouldn't actually solve the problem because of people going to other areas to engage in feeding. I will also say, and it's been mentioned, these are resourceful creatures. I remember canvassing in a way-back-of-the-woods neighborhood in my district where there was no people around, abandoned house. There were hundreds of cats in this colony. I swear to God, some of them had like three eyes and extra toes. They all looked like Siamese, so,there was obviously some in-breeding there. But I mean, these guys will feed themselves anywhere they end up. So,just to your initial question about the amendment, and I think this bares further conversation,we do have a pilot program that we've been trying to get everybody behind. Is it a workable solution? I don't know. We won't know until we try it. It is trap-neuter-release, and manage. And the specific objection is actually get to zero. So, we don't get there immediately. The only way we do that is if we're able to catch all the cats,put them on an airplane and ship them somewhere where they wanted them. Page 22 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 But I agree with you, we have to do something, like they have to do something. So,I would like the opportunity to see of that pilot program is successful and get some of the data that we collect from it. Again, you know, there are issues with everything because this is a wicked problem. But I do request we have that dialogue about that opportunity. I'll leave that there for now. Thank you, Chair. CHR. ONISHI: Okay. Any other members? Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. So,I've been supporting the pilot project with Council Member Kimball. And thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder. I do think we have to do something. Doing nothing is no longer an issue. I am concerned with the way the bill is written with not being amended. And I also have an amendment that I'm proposing that I think could possibly go well with your amendment or be consolidated with your amendment. But I guess there's a couple things. One, we have been putting a lot of money into this,but it's been such a scatter-shot approach. It's like I do a CRF (Contingency Relief Fund) for this organization, and you know,Michelle (Galimba) does another CRF for another organization. It's not coordinated; we give some money for Animal Control, and they can do this one thing. But then, the rest of the island doesn't get attended to. And so, you know,that grows. It's just been really not coordinated. So,I think really thinking about data-driven best practices is what we need to focus on. I know we don't have a perfect solution. But I'm willing to go forward with something like this with amendments because I think it brings a lot of attention to the issue. I would even wonder if we could do something with—my vision is to move cat feeders into a cat manager and caretaker mode. So, that we don't have people who are just putting out food and walking away, and the Nene are getting it, or you know,the rats are getting it; or all these other horrible things are happening. But we have trained people who have a set of guidelines they've agreed to follow. These are based on best practices, and we give that a real shot. I could see doing like a Traffic School model. Like if somebody gets a ticket, they could not have to pay the fine if they go to a training and get it signed off on and agree that they will follow best practices and not do the practices that we know are harmful to our environment and even to the cats themselves. I also think that you know,this isn't just about cats. I've got serious pig problems in my district where people are feeding pigs. And you know, that's huge issue. So,I would love for us to be able to make sure those people can't just feed the pigs. Page 23 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 But if we also have those projects happening in Puna that R&D (Research and Development) have been supporting, and part of that is feeding the pigs to trap them. And I think cat management can involve feeding,but in a really specific best-practiced way, not in a scattered-shot way. So,I'm hoping that if we proceed with this that we can amend it, and I can get to there when we go there. I did want to mention,I mean,there's some pretty bad practices happening out there. Even at our Hilo Transfer Station, my understand that we have hundreds of pigs eating garbage at our Hilo Transfer Station. That is a disaster waiting to happen. I mean what's it called,brucellosis,is that the right name of it? That is a disease that could be really harmful for people and is often spread when pigs eat things from humans that's not intended. So, you know,we have some major animal feeding issues on this island. So,I do really appreciate this. But I also feel like there's no way we can enforce it as written. And we have an amazing group of people here that want to be volunteers,that if we work with them, we can get on a path to doing something. We don't have the personnel at Animal Control, at Parks; at our Police Department to do—to make a major impact by writing tickets for fines. We need the community to come into this and really work with us. So,I'm going to wait since your amendment is first, and my amendment is numbered after. But I would love to discuss the possibilities to amend. Thank you,I yield. CHR. ONISHI: Anyone who didn't speak yet? Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. Thank you,Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. I think the bill here having listened to the testimonies,is reasonable. When we're talking about County property,there are other areas. And if there are these opportunities to feed in a restricted area that is going to insure the safety, not only of the cats,but all of the other animals that have been brought up today, and most especially our human community, I think that's the direction we can head in. There may be some opportunity perhaps to give a little bit of time for this transition. But I do support. And I think the points brought up by Council Member Villegas are well taken, especially from what I hear from my own community in regards to some of the few parks we have on the West side and the significant issues we're facing primarily with the feeding of cats and mongoose. The intention is cats,but the mongoose are eating too. Thank you again for bringing this bill forward, and I think we can get it to the finish line in a way that acknowledges the work that is done by community who has come out today to share their mana`o as well. Thank you. CHR. ONISHI: Ms. Galimba. Page 24 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 MS. GALIMBA: Briefly, I don't have any cats, and I don't particularly like cats that much. But I mean, they're alright. But I do want us to have the amendments. I think it is important to at least try TNR efforts. I think the management part is really important so that the numbers are reduced without just sort of abandoning what's going on. So,professionalizing the cat feeding that's going on,I guess,is sort of the idea. Also, noting really place-specific. So, I think there's places that have been planned out where having a cat colony is just not a good place. But there might be other places where it's not as damaging. So,I think as we go forward,perhaps figuring out ways to look at that sort of geographic element. But I don't think it can be really written into our Code. So,I think it's going to have to be on a different level. That's all. CHR. ONISHI: Thank you. I just want to make a comment. Okay, so, in front of us is basically having County properties not being allowed to feed feral animals. Okay, the State I think has kind of the same enforcement of law,right? Kind of, yes. So,basically,to me,we as a body,that's what we're here for. It's the issues with the County. So, with the feeding of other places. It's up to,I guess, the feeders to find another area that isn't government land that they can feed to help those feral animals. So,I just wanted to let everybody know that this is what's in front of us. This is about the County okay. Go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you for making those points Council Members and well taken. And I'm hearing the want to bring up the amendment, and I appreciate that,Ms. Kagiwada. I think your amendment and mine are on the same track. My amendment was actually really on behalf of Parks and Recreation and Corporation Counsel to trying to really clarify what the intention was and kind of find that middle ground. I did want to give a moment if you're still online,Mr. Work. (Note: At this time,Mr. Thierry Work, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. WORK: Yes, I'm still here. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wonderful. I appreciate you being with us. You are here on behalf of—? MR.WORK: Myself. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and then do you have anything to add to the conversation today just from what you've heard since you've stayed on with us for a few hours now? Page 25 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 MR.WORK: No. If people have questions about wildlife or the impacts cats and wildlife, I'm happy to answer them. But I'm not in position to give any testimony. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, well, understood. Okay, well thank you for being with us. To the Council, so, it was mentioned that we have lawsuits possibly pending in two other counties. We may be next. We have State and Federal agencies attending the meeting today. The amendment that I brought forward I will bring in at this point, which provides the ability for the community to understand that we're hearing and we're listening. But also,to make sure that we're making forward movement. Motion to Amend: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to amend Bill 51 with the contents of Comm. 283.1. Seconded by Ms. Villegas. CHR. ONISHI: Go ahead, on the amendment. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay,thank you. So, subsection(a) minor amendment to "Leased, rented,managed, or operated by the County." Description of what it means to feed. I find that pretty common sense as far as the term. But I liked that we've clarified exactly what that means. Then a description of"Feral" as well as "Nothing in this section prohibits, restricts or limits he ability of the County or of a person authorized or contracted by the County to trap,remove,impound, or seize an animal or to undertake any other power or duty under this chapter of the HRS, chapters 142 or 143. That provides the mechanism by which the existing programs can continue to operate with an agreement between them and Parks and Recreation. That's the purpose of the amendment. It's very straightforward. Everything else that is in Bill 51 stays in place. And then just as a minor sub-note,LRB (Legislative Research Branch)let me know that there is a slight wording issue with the use of"of"in the last sentence in Section (d). That should be"or" and we can do a verbal change on that if we need to. That's what we've done in the past. Correct? MR. BROWN: We prefer things in writing, as much as possible. And I think we'll have another chance, you know, as this moves forward to really clean that up on a written form. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. So, that's the intention of the amendment. It is pretty clear; it is very straightforward in alignment with,I think,both sides of what I heard today. For the most part, Page 26 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 maybe not making everybody perfectly happy. But it is a middle ground. I yield. CHR. ONISHI: Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Good with(a). I think that's a really good clarification; (c) also good. (a), (b), and (c), I don't have a problem with. (d) the only thing I'm feeling is like there's nothing in there about management, and I feel like that's something I'd really like to see in this because data-driven management that's well coordinated on our island I think is what's going to separate what we're already doing from what we could be doing. So, that piece I would love to see, and like I said I feel like—when we get to my amendment we can talk about it. But then we could possibly melt the two and maybe that would take care of it. Okay, I yield. CHR. ONISHI: Any others on the amendment? Ms. Kimball. MS KIMBALL: Appreciate the clarification on the (a). I do think the language on (c)presents a problem. And again, I'm coming at this from the lens of enforceability. I mean a law is going to be not useful if it's not possible to enforce. And I think that from the legalese standpoint;there's enough ambiguity to the language around this definition of feed. I mean,the more language that's put in here the more opportunities to say,I wasn't doing that when you're trying to go ahead and get enforcement. So,that has been the problem with the abandonment issue; is it's so difficult to enforce, and I think the redaction of language actually just, everybody knows what feed means but if you don't—what people are going to use is that it doesn't spell the letter of this clause here,then they're going to be able to come up to say, "I wasn't doing that." Then you have an enforcement problem. CHR. ONISHI: Okay, on the amendment. Anyone else? Okay, all those in favor or amending Bill 51 with the contents of Communication 283.1, say"aye." Those opposed? Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 51 with the contents of to Amend: Comm. 283.1 was carried by the following roll call vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Villegas, and Chair Onishi—7. Noes: Committee Member Kimball— 1. Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz— 1. Excused: None. Page 27 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 CHR. ONISHI: Okay. So,Bill 51 is amended with Communication 283.1. Ms. Kagiwada MS. KAGIWADA: Chair. CHR. ONISHI: Ms. Kagiwada. Motion to Amend: Ms. Kagiwada moved to amend Bill 51 with the contents of Comm. 283.2. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR. ONISHI: Go ahead,Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. Once again,this is just really getting to the issue of animal management. I've amended Section 4-3 (a) to include, "A person may not feed or attempt to feed a stray or feral animal on property owned by the County." And I've added, "unless feeding is part of an animal management program which has been authorized by the County." And then the additional piece, instead of the order taking effect upon its approval,is that this wouldn't take effect until January 1, 2026,to give us time to have the guidelines and training in place so that people understand the data-driven animal management ways that we expect them to be operating under and to be connected with an animal management program that's been authorized by the County. Thank you. Happy to take questions. CHR. ONISHI: On the amendment. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I like the animal management program piece. I feel like this is redundant,but you didn't know what I was bringing, and I didn't know what you were bringing. So,I feel like if you wanted to work with the animal management program, although again,redundant, we're offering that in the previous amendment. You know, "or of a person authorized or contracted by the County to do the following," which is basically describing animal management program. But I like what you're saying about having some requirements we're moving towards and what that animal management program is doing. What I'm hesitant to say is, where's the data that shows we're reducing the number of animals when we're doing these programs? And I would love to see that component tied into this. If we're going to run a program,it should be in to reducing the numbers. If we're not seeing a reduction, then what are we doing. So,I like that portion of it. Maybe finding a way to incorporate that in. I am a little bit hesitant to push it out to January. But I'm understand why you're doing that and why that would be good for the community to give us time to work Page 28 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 through what it's going to take. To put up signage and do,X, Y, and Z for the community. So, thank you. CHR. ONISHI: Okay, any other members. Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Just to go back with that. I don't think we know for sure what's going to work, and that's why we're doing the pilot project. You know, one of the main parts of the pilot project is to show that we can move cat colonies away from sensitive areas in a way that will keep them away. And that is a huge part of this pilot project. If we don't focus on animal management programs and try something like this, I feel like we're going to be like, you know, how will we keep animals from just going back there? It will just be really hard to see where we can make a difference. I did want to just share because I was able to meet with international folks that were here from Meow Matrix who've been doing this work in other places all over the world, including in La Reunion, which is our sister city where they've had a lot of success. One of the things I learned that I didn't really understand before I met with them is that managed cat populations on the periphery of an area that you want to keep cats out of can actually act as guards against other cats going into that area. They're very territorial, and if you keep a partial cat colony on the periphery of an area that you don't want other cats to go in, they can actually help you keep cats out of that area, which I thought was fascinating. So,I'd really like to see us try coordinated animal management. I worry that if we don't put that in, that we're still going to continue with a kind of scattershot approach. And I do want to make sure that we are looking at, you know,where we've got one pilot that we want to try. And if it works then we definitely want to work on getting cats out of our beach parks. I mean, that's a hundred percent,I think where we want to go with some of this. But without that management piece, I worry. If we start this in a month or something once it's passed without having the ramp up,I just feel like we also lose the cooperation and trust with the community that could be really valuable on making this potentially successful. So, I'll leave it at that. Thank you, I yield. CHR. ONISHI: Okay, any other members. If not,I'm going to talk about this amendment. Can I get P&R and Animal Control,if you guys can come up, please. I have a question. So, have you folks seen this Communication 283.2 Section(a)? MR. RUNNELLS: Yes. Page 29 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 CHR. ONISHI: So, it's saying, "authorized by the County." So, now is it going to be Animal Control or it's going to be Parks and Rec? But hearing from Parks and Rec, it's like you folks don't want it in the properties,right? MR. HONMA: Absolutely. CHR. ONISHI: So, can I have your comments on this. MR. HONMA: One of the things about feeding animals on our properties, it encourages the abandonment of animals into our properties because they feel safe; they think they're going to get fed. So, I believe the numbers have exploded because of that fact in itself. I mean, we do the spay and neutering, which is great,you know. We try to manage the populations in that way. We understand about trying to migrate the feeding stations out of our properties. And that is also a great option as well,too. But on that trap-spay-neuter, and it's not release,but it's "return" on what the program is about. The"return"is the challenge that I have. Like Council Member Villegas just said the"R"is the one that is a big concern to us. And so,that will bring the animals back into our places. But again, it's going to continue to keep the numbers there until they disappear with attrition or whatever. However,the numbers are going to continue to grow because people are going to continue to say this is a safe place to abandon our animals, you know, at the parks. So, I am not in agreement with feeding of animals in our parks to begin with. And enforcement is something else. We cannot enforce any of them. Although we can put up the signages for the enforcement officials to come in and enforce the rules. That's all that we have. We don't have anything else to manage or monitor those activities at our parks. MR. RUNNELLS: I mean from our perspective, as far as the people that will be managing the program. They would have to manage those feeders as well, and make sure that the people are feeding are the authorized feeders. CHR. ONISHI: Then, so,by having it authorized by the County; so, Animal Control doesn't want to do it,right? MR. RUNNELLS: We don't have the manpower to sit down there and monitor it all the time. Of course, that's a given. And so,that will be the question of who manages that group. CHR. ONISHI: Or who approves or authorizes,right, then to do it. Parks and Rec, I don't think you folks want to do that. Page 30 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 MS. KAGIWADA: Chair, if I may. CHR. ONISHI: Excuse me, I'm going to get to you. I just wanted to get them on record first. And then now,my questions to you, when you put down, "authorized by the County." Who's the County. MS. KAGIWADA: The intention is that with our departments, we will make the guidelines and the data-driven assessment on what the animal management would look like, and then the community partners will have to abide by those guidelines if they want to be animal caretaker management. If they don't,then they will go under this where they would be possibly fined for feeding because they wouldn't be following the guidelines put in place. CHR. ONISHI: So, my question to you is, so which County agency would be the agency that would authorize the animal management? MS. KAGIWADA: The guidelines? It would be Animal Control,I would think. But we want to work with multiple departments. CHR. ONISHI: But we're just hearing right now, they don't really want it. They don't want to take the responsibility. And you cannot force it to them. MR. RUNNELLS: I could see it managed under a contract situation with an organization, such as Aloha Animal Alliance or something like that. You know, we've been talking about cats being the biggest issue. And you know,it is pigs; it is chickens. And you know, we've talked about toxoplasmosis as being one of the major things that cats bring. But pseudorabies which is on the rise in Pahoa. There's the bird flu, which is a constant issue coming from the mainland. These are all things that, having animals in proximity to people, create a scenario that you just don't really want, especially in public parks. But I do see an avenue that we do need to find a way to get those animals out of those sensitive areas. And if the amendment is what will bring that avenue to allow that, then that's one option. From our Animal Control perspective, I think it would have to be a contracted company to manage those groups and make sure that, yes, the authorized people are doing it. Non-authorized people would have to be brought into the fold to make sure that they're doing things properly as well. CHR. ONISHI: So, you're saying it's not the County's responsibility that's going to authorize. MR. RUNNELLS: Authorize the group to do it,right. CHR. ONISHI: Correct. It won't be or it will be? Page 31 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 MR. RUNNELLS: It would have to be that the County authorizes a group to do it; fund them. CHR. ONISHI: To oversee the management. MR. RUNNELLS: Yes,to oversee that. CHR. ONISHI: Your agency would do that? MR. RUNNELLS: Would help to work with the group. We are and we have been working with groups to manage some of that. Same as we do with working with a lot of our partner organizations to fund the spay and neuters and things like that around the County. CHR. ONISHI: You would need funding for that? MR. RUNNELLS: Yes. CHR. ONISHI: To pay this nonprofit to manage,right? Unless they're going to do it for free. MR. RUNNELLS: It would have to be a County-managed contract. CHR. ONISHI: So,that's another cost. Okay. But the bottom line is we're here today to try and get it out of the County parks and County properties,right? And so, if you,I guess support this then we're going back and giving them permission to go into certain areas. MR. RUNNELLS: Yes,I mean, I see that there's a dichotomy to the subject matter here that we're talking about, and there has to be a little bit of give-and-take. And I'm with Parks and Rec in that having those animals and those species in the areas with children and families playing, it is not an ideal situation. But there has to be way out. You know, animal numbers are off the charts, and no single bullet is going to solve the problem, and if this is just one of the many bullets in the chamber then it's one of the options that we have. And it's a tool, you know, to help guide us and help us manage that program if possible. CHR. ONISHI: Ms. Villegas. MR. VILLEGAS: I think you guys just kind of summed up, and I appreciate, you were definitely listening the constituents in this putting together this potential amendment. But once again,I have to go back to, I don't think where we want to be heading is managing feral cat colonies in our public parks. Page 32 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 I know how long it's taken for us to even get to have this conversation at Council. Somebody being courageous enough to endure this. But that's not where we want to go, and that's not what I want to encourage. Because that is the pretense of what's been happening for decades now has been happening under. So,I would prefer the prior amendment, as we've already passed it,because it talks about removing and impounding. And to me that goes back to capture, spay and neuter, and then home or find another facility or private property or something else and another means to facilitate that. I can appreciate Council Member Kimball's high sensitivity to the terminology here. I also looks at our Parks and Rec people, and I know our Community Policing really well. And so, you know,they're going to be warning people, and words going to get out in the community really fast about the prohibition of feeding animals within our County parks. That word will spread very quickly. So, the concept of I don't know or I'm not feeding, or whatnot. This is where comes down to community and personal conscience and recognizing where we're trying to get to; actually, what we're trying to return to as an island, not invaded by species that do more harm than good here. And so, I'll continue to support this legislation. I have faith in our County departments. I can't support an amendment with a new management program,because once again, who's going to manage it? How are they going to manage it? No, I mean they're already managing relationships with the responsible and with this test pilot project. And so, it would just overly complicates things. And it lose sight of the point which is feral cat colonies are causing catastrophic devastation to native species and potentially impacting the health and welfare of our communities in taxpayer public spaces. We have the full support of the State and the DLNR as a County if we're taking this initiative,which goes a long way,because most times we're sitting here saying, "How do we get more support from DLNR?" Then you guys are underfunded and understaffed, and whatnot. So,thank you for spending your day here with us in these challenging conversations. I yield. CHR. ONISHI: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. To the maker, if you'd be willing to withdraw the communication to amend, take a look at what we've just passed in the previous amendment, and maybe sit down with Parks and Recreation, and sit what programs would be allowable that's already been included because of the amendment that we just passed, and see if that takes care of amending Section (a) in the animal management programs. I think that you may find that it may. Page 33 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 I am open to doing a later enactment of it. We pass it and it goes into effect two-three months later. That makes sense,because that gives them time to put up signage for the Police Department to understand their responsibility, Animal Control's responsibility,Parks and Rec,DEM, or whoever. So, there's going to be some implementation issues. That part I like. You've built in that component. But I think we're being redundant with Section (a) and what we passed in Section (d),just a few minutes ago. That's my suggestion. It's up to you how you want to proceed. CHR. ONISHI: Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you for the suggestion. I'm willing to look at that. I do want to just ask these two gentlemen here. Administrator, do you think that we will reduce the cat population on our island by what we passed and amended today with no management involved with basically, fining people for feeding? MR. RUNNELLS: I don't think that this is going to solve the problem of the cats. MS. KAGIWADA: Do you think it will even reduce the population? MR. RUNNELLS: I mean, the populations will move elsewhere. You know, cats are pretty resourceful. Cats they find food when they need to. So, those populations will migrate, and cats by themselves have a very large range. So, you know, I don't think it will solve the problem of the County. I think it might solve the problems on the County property, which is, I think,what it's all about. But the problem is that those colonies right now on those properties. And so,you know, I think that it won't solve the problem,but I do think there needs to be. You know, we need to figure out a method of removing those animals. Because even if we do pass this today and people stop feeding today, the cats aren't gone away. They'll be there for a while. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay,thank you. And Parks Director, you did mention earlier that you thought it was important to move the cat colonies out of our parks. And I'm just wondering how do we do that if we don't do any cat management in thoughtful, like actually moving them out. MR. HONMA: Well, I was speaking about the program that you're involved in in migrating the cat feeding stations out of our parks. But again,if you look at the dogs and our beach park laws and stuff like that, and we're allowing cats to be fed at our parks, it doesn't make much sense,right? I mean,the reasons why we're not allowing the dogs in the beach parks is because of the feces and the defecation that happens in there. And yet we have stray cats and feral cats in our beach parks; chickens as well too, and pigeons, all doing the same thing. Page 34 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 So,I agree 100 percent with what Matt just said in saying that, you know, we're not going to reduce the numbers. But we've got to also think about reducing them and getting them out of our beach parks not encouraging others to continue to abandon their pets in our properties and at our parks,because the numbers have just grown over the years. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, well,I'm happy to work with you guys. I do think it's really important that we give people some time. If it goes into effect right away , I think we're shooting ourselves in the foot. And I will look at the language,but I think, you know,making sure that we can manage; that we pay attention to you know, management, and not just saying "no". Because I just don't think it's going to work if we just do that. I mean, who's going to give these tickets? You just said you don't have the people power to give the tickets. So, how is that going to stop people if we aren't giving tickets? We're just putting another County policy into our Code that we do not enforce. And that sends the wrong message, I think. Okay, I yield. I'll withdraw it at this point. Withdraw Motion: Ms. Kagiwada withdrew her motion to amend Bill 51 to Amend: with the contents of Comm. 283.2. CHR. ONISHI: We're back to the main motion which was amended by Comm. 283.1,right? Okay, go ahead Matt. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for the conversation. Just to touch on something I think is important. The amendment that we passed allows the County Parks and Rec and Animal Control to work with any organization or person to continue any program that's existing or not existing right now or a future program that comes up, it's allowable. But it's at your discretion. MR. HONMA: Understood. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So,just putting it out there. So,it's not that any programs will stop. It will be up to the Director or the Administration, or whomever in deciding how we proceed and with what intention. That really gives you folks the direction or the department in charge the direction on how they want to see a program working within the County work. So, to the Council Members, thank you very much for your patience and walking through this for the community. Thank you very much for listening and for participating. It's important. I'm going to proceed with moving this forward to Council today. I feel like we're in a good place. We've made amendments that satisfied both sides to the extent possible. Nothing's perfect. So, no go ahead. Page 35 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 CHR. ONISHI: Okay,Ms. Kimball. MS. KIlVIBALL: I just wanted to follow-up on Council Member Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder's question. Because just to be clear,the pilot program that was mentioned earlier with Aloha Animal Alliance actually isn't happening yet. It's still in the planning process and determining metrics and things like that. As you understand it, that program that's being proposed, it that covered under this amendment? Just to clarify specifically,it's not about continuing existing programs. But that program is in the planning process. MR. RUNNELLS: To the best of my knowledge, that's what I'm coming to understand, yes, MS. KIMBALL: Okay,just making sure,we're correct. Alright, thank you. I yield. CHR. ONISHI: Okay, Mr. Clerk, let's get a roll call on approving Bill 51, as amended with Communication 283.1. Vote on Bill 51: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 51, as amended, (Approved) on first reading, was carried by the following roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba,Hustace, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Onishi—7. Noes: Committee Member Kagiwada— 1. Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz— 1. Excused: None. CHR. ONISHI: Okay, motion is carried, and it is now at 5:05 p.m., and this committee is adjourned. Thank you. • Page 36 PCHSW-2 July 8,2025 ADJOURN- There being no further business, Chair Onishi adjourned the meeting MENT: at 5:05 p.m. Approved: 4/2./241 Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi, Chair (Date) Policy Committee on Health, Safety, and Well-being DO/dt Page 37