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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2025/08/05 (2024-2026) DRAFT Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs 15th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii August 5, 2025 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 2:31,1 m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair Mr. James E. Hustace, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba,Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz} Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onish , Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member Absent& Excused: Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA,ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: John Open: Bill 72 (Comm. 400), in support and comment. Eileen O'Hara: Bill 72 (Comm. 400), in support and comment. Maya Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder: Comm. 378, in support and comment. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. Mr. Clerk. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 378: APPOINTMENT OF KOLT BAPTISTA TO THE YOUTH COMMISSION GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 From Council Member Holeka Goro Inaba, dated July 1, 2025. (Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor Micah Alameda and the nominee came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Vote on Comm. 378: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend confirmation of the nomination (Approved) of Mr. Kolt Baptista to the Youth Commission.' Seconded by Mr. Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Hustaee, Inaba, Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada-8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Galimba— 1. Excused: None. Mr. Alameda provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. CHR. KAGIWADA: Go to Resolutions,,please. ORDER OF The Acting Chair directed the Committee to' proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. Res. 250-25: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, FEDERAL BUREAU 01" INVESTIGATION (FBI), HONOLULU DIVISION, FOR THE IAWAI`I FINANCIAL CRIMES TASK FORCE Allows the Hawaii Police Department to assist with identifying and targeting for prosecution individuals and groups responsible for financial crimes where there is or may be a federal'investigative interest. Reference: Comm. 408 Intr. by: Council Member Kagiwada(B/R) Motion to Approve: Mr. Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to recommend adoption of Res. 250-25. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR KAGIWADA: We have our HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) representative here that can speak to this issue. I brought it forward on their behalf. Do you want to come and join us and maybe just give a little bit of background on why this MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) is before us and what it does? Thank you. Please introduce yourself for the record. Page 2 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 (Note: At this time, Hawaii Police Department Captain Rio Amon-Wilkins came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. AMON-WILKINS: Good afternoon. So, this task force, our department actually got involved in it about a year ago. We had two detectives identified to be part of the task force. One here in Hilo and one in Kona. Unfortunately, both of those detectives have since transferred out of the sections where they were; one is in Patrol, and one was in the Juvenile Section: So,they're both going to be giving up their credentials. We haven't yet identified replacements for them. As you know, there is a huge increase ib financial crimes taking place. Many of them are online in the last ten-plus years with, you know, applications online. These kinds of cases have become a lot more prevalent and definitely more complex. In fact, back when I was a patrol officer, financial crime was a stolen credit card and charges made to various locations, or a stolen checkbook, and those types of cases. Criminals now, on the types of events that they're doing with the applications, and a lot of the monies being transferred,overseas. And when the money is transferred overseas, there's a very short window for us to be able to try to recoup the money for the victims. In many of these cases, we won't be able to prosecute because we'll never be able to identify the perpetrator. So, hopefully, being able to retrieve the money for the victim is definitely a priority. So, having this partnership with the FBI(Federal Bureau of Investigation),just gives us more tools to use,to try to go after these and try to stop some of them before they occur. You know, one of the things we always try to stress too to victims, especially, elderlypeople is just awareness. It still amazes me sometimes when I see somebody's financial crimes. And primarily elderly people get phone calls from somebody Maiming to be from a bank or some other institution; and the amount of money they willingly give up. So having this partnership will just us more tools, and certain offenses that they need a certain threshold could also be eligible for Federal prosecution. CHR. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you so much. Any questions? Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I don't know if you introduced yourself, but a minor introduction. CHR. KAGIWADA: Please introduce yourself. Page 3 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MR. AMON-WILKINS: Captain Rio Amon-Wilkins with the Hawaii Police Department, Criminal Investigation Division. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Captain. Thank you for the overview, and I don't have any questions. CHR. KAGIWADA: Okay. Council Member Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Captain for being here for that overview. So, the third"Whereas" clause, it talks about financial crimes where there is or may be federal investigativeinterests. Can you elaborate a little more on that without sort of compromising the integrity of any ongoing investigations that may be occurring? MR. AMON-WILKINS: Like a bank robbery would automatically qualify because they're federally backed. Then other certain offenses, if there was potentially, like interstate commerce involved or depending on the record of the offenders as well may qualify for federal prosecution. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Then,, is there like a threshold, like a dollar amount that you guys are looking for to kind,of trigger this partnership with the task force? MR. AMON-WILKINS: No, not a specific dollar amount, it's more just the complexity of the investigation. I mean if it's a case where the victim and the suspect are hero on-island, it's'much easier for us to investigate that. But when a lot of these crimes, we have no idea where the suspect or the perpetrator is. So, that in and of itself is a large task to do. MS. KIRRKIEWICZ: Because criminals have gotten so clever with how they are scamming folks out of money; cutting off electrical service or, "You missed a mortgage payment." Even the emails are looking so official, like coming from a bank,or life insurance. So, folks are panicking, right, "Oh, did I miss a payment," or whatever. And they unknowingly perhaps pay and it's within that transaction that their whole bank account has been liquidated. In those incidences where the organizing criminal party is in another country, at that point, this task force would be activated? MR. AMON-WILKINS: It depends on the complexity of the investigation in the beginning. I mean, if we determine early on that the perpetrators are overseas, we'll definitely contact the FBI for assistance and potentially other federal agencies as well. The timeframe to try to recoup money, if it's going to go overseas is very short. Unfortunately, by the time a lot of these cases are reported to us, we've already lost that window. Page 4 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's so unfortunate, thank you. And then, how often do you think that this task force is being activated to help solve crimes locally? MR. AMON-WILKINS: It's not so much of it being activated, it's just more of a resource, you know, at our disposal. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And then we currently do not have an agreement for this arrangement? MR. AMON-WILKINS: We have this MOU. We had two detectives identified who actually got sworn in and had their credentials. But they both since transferred. So, they're not working in a division or a section where they would investigate these types of crimes. So, we need to identify other individuals who would go through the background process and whatever's required, and then we would have the TFO's (Task Ford Officers). MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, but this agreement is not for the individuals that's in agreement. with the government, FBI; agencies for the task force. MR. AMON-WILKINS: Correct, it's an agreement with the agencies. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: With the government, FBI; agencies for the task force. Okay. That's what I was curious about,is if we already had one in place, and if this resolution just needed to formulize that`s MR: AMON-WILKINS: I believe it was in place. But I guess recently there's been,a change. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: We just need to update, right, okay. R. AMON-WILKINS: Right. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Alright. Thank you, I appreciate you being here. Chair, I yield. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. Council Member Hustace. MR.HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Actually, that was my question, too, Council Member Kierkiewicz. It seems like this is an initial MOU between the agencies. I can't seem to see if something existed before. But Captain is sharing that we've had something in place before. MR. AMON-WILKINS: I believe it just began last year, actually in 2024. Page 5 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MR. HUSTACE: This MOU, I think it was signed by our last Chief in 2024. So, it's been sitting active, but hasn't come before Council until now. Correct? CHR. KAGIWADA: Exactly. MR. AMON-WILKINS: I believe so. MR. HUSTACE: So, it's updated the information. But also, it seems like it's an entirely new MOU, though. CHR KAGIWADA: It will have new signatories,yes. MR. HUSTACE: Got it. Thank you, Chair. Thank you,Captain. CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Yes, thank you. Thank you, Captain. Yeah, one of my good friend's mother-in-law was taken for $1.4 million recently over the course of a year-and-a-half with very slick, sly, smooth coercion. And now with monies in the dark web, they just disappear. And no matter how smart you are, sometimes it just, they can get you. On that same kind of note,I'm just getting you,just the conversation of MOU's with the Federal Government right now is a bit of trigger for myself as well as a number of different people. As it relates to the FBI here different than Homeland Security and ICE(U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement). But also, I suppose my question now is, as it applies, the intentionality that I'm perceiving for this MOU,to reflect is for our Police Department to be able to gather information and utilize the resources available through the Federal Bureau of Investigation in order to track people and help solve cyber-crimes like this, correct?, MR. AMOK-WILKINS: I think it's just more of a tool that we would have to assist us in,certain financial crime investigations. NMS. VILLEGAS: So, then my question then becomes, does it also inadvertently, accidentally, or just sometimes cohesively open our Police Department up to then be accessed by their bureau of investigation to access any of our people, citizens' private information? MR. AMON-WILKINS: I don't see how that wouldI mean, I've worked many different investigations over the years, or supervised people doing many investigations over the years. But we've had assistance from federal agencies, and that's never been an issue. Page 6 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MS. VILLEGAS: I couldn't agree with you more, but under this current federal administration, nothing's impossible. And some things that I'm reading about and seeing are the information and policies like this, which have ideally been created to help protect the people that are then being manipulated. And information, if it becomes assessable can be utilized for nefarious reasons. So, it just really concerns me. So, I'm looking for a little bit of confirmation, and specificity, and insurance that this can't be flipped. So that, somehow the FBI has access to records and information within�our Hawaii County Police Department that then,just for example, provides any information about our immigrant community that could thus be manipulated to identify them and go after them. MR. AMON-WILKINS: This is the task force that will give ustools to help us get justice for victims. I mean,the status of the victims does not matter to us. You know, we'll investigate a crime for whomever the victim is, and try to identity the perpetrators and get the victim their money back. MS. VILLEGAS: Totally understand that that's your intention. My concern is that it can flipped, because that's your intention. Buthow things like this, the intention of whoever's working under the federal administration, if something is signed that allows them access to information,their intention to utilize could be manipulated and accidentally do harm. MR: AMON-WILKINS: Typically, in a financial crimes investigation, there's going to be nothing in there that ouldI mean, I'm not quite sure the track you're on with this. But I don't see it as a concern at all with this MOU. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, would their name be included in there; their address; their,place of employment; their social security numbers? MR. AMON-WILK,INS: For the victim, all that information is in the police report. And if the case was going to go to a federal agency and then the AUSA (U.S. Office of Justice) for federal prosecution. Some of that information would be in there. MS: VILLEGAS: So, the information would be available, which does make people vulnerable. I'm just trying to point of vulnerability and concern by community and constituents. And it's very heightened in my district, and it's very heightened under this federal administration and the utilization of our federal bureaus to harm certain people that we all would really like to believe the intentionality is to protect. As I've said before, I'm grateful to our County Police Department for operating under that, and I recognize the dance you have Page 7 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 to do. I just have concerns. Anything that has to do with MOU's right now with the federal administration. CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member, I'm wondering, it seems like the Captain has answered your questions to the best of his ability. Do you want to bring Corporation Counsel in on this discussion, or anything like that; or potentially, you know, have a discussion with the Acting Chief. Because I feel like the Captain has answered the best he could at this point. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chair. Is my time up? CHR KAGIWADA: I don't know. Is her time up? No.- MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, thanks. Just wondering what those questions were based on. CHR KAGIWADA: I feel like you're asking him the same questions over and over again. He's answered. .............. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay,thank you. I yield at this time. CHR KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you so much. Anybody else have questions or comments at this time? Okay. Thank you so much, Captain. Appreciate you being here. Corporation Counsel, could we ask you to come up, maybe just briefly. Thank,you so much. m(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Renee Schoen came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SCHOE :, Good afternoon, Renee Schoen, Corporation Counsel. CHR.,KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. I think you heard the questioning that the Captain was getting. And I just wanted to know if from Corporation's side, is there anything you can say about this MOU or about the County's ability or liability to be sharing information with the FBI on individuals in our community. If there's anything you can share. MS: SCHOEN: No. I mean, really no. I think, you know, he's answered, and I don't have anything to add. CHR KAGIWADA: Okay. Alright, thank you so much, appreciate that. Appreciate everybody for your time on this. I'm sure everybody knows that we did get the actual information in our confidential file. It was not something that the FBI was allowing us to share with the public. So, that's why it was not provided in a public manner. Page 8 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 I will say, from my point of view, I didn't see anything in there that needed to be confidential, but that's their purview. So, we did not share that with the public. Alright, at this time, we have a motion on the floor to forward Resolution 250-25 to full Council with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor please say, "aye." Any opposed? Vote on Res. 250-25: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 250-25 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Hustace, Inaba, Kdneali`i-Kleinfolder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, ,m Onishi, Villegds, and Chair Kagiwada—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member'Galimba 1. Excused: None. CHR. KAGIWADA: Okay. We can go ahead to go to Bill 68,please. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 68: INITIATES'AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE VI OF THE CHARTER OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAI`I(2024 EDITION), RELATING TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A DEPARTMENT OF BUILDING Establishes a now Department of Building with the authority to regulate building and construction-related activities; creates a Director of Building position appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the Council; and establishes a Building Codes Commission to advise the Mayor, Council, and Director on building and construction-related matters. Reference: Comm. 376 Intr. by: Council Members Hustace and Kierkiewicz Postponed: July 22, 2025 (Note: There is a motion by Council Member Kierkiewicz, seconded by Council Member Hustace, to recommend passage of Bill 68 on first reading.) (Note: Comm. 376.1 From Council Chair Holeka Goro Inaba, dated August 4, 2025, and Comm. 376.2 from Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated August 5, 2025, transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 68, were circulated.) Page 9 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 CHR. KAGIWADA: Alright, we have a motion on the floor. Council Member Hustace, would you like to kick us off, please. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I think we're going to dive right into the amendment here. We've had some discussion at the last meeting. Motion to Amend: Mr. Hustace moved to amend Bill 68 with the contents of Comm. 376.2. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz. CHR KAGIWADA: Council Member Hustace, MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. This is continuing our conversation and working with Council Member Kierkiewicz on identifying,some of the areas we still need to clean up a little bit. Our last conversation, especially in regard to the Board of Appeals' question, there was some inclusion the Director for Building within that process as well. Then, the major piece in here is bullet point(3) on the Building Codes Commission and some questions we had about that. And really defining the membership within that commission. And the expertise and experience we're looking for that commission itself. To be a part of that conversation; to be thatbody, that's reviewing and providing some insight of any of those proposed amendments to electrical, plumbing, fire or other building related codes. That's required under State law. So,those recommendations are there within the amendment. Thank you, Chair. CHR.'KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. Other Council Members? You'd like to add to or questions or comments? Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. 1VIR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I love the direction of the bill. On the amendment, though,given the powers of the Building Code Commission, I would warn that given the Commission's ability to review and evaluate amendments to building, electrical,plumbing, fire, and/or building-related codes; recommend amendments to ordinances, that having them be part of building material supply, or trade union representation to me is worrisome. Because if Home Depot was in charge of writing Building Codes, and I can see that being problematic in the sense of conflict of interest. The more I sell, the better I do. I also write codes for Hawaii County when it comes electrical, building, plumbing, fire or other related codes. So, I like the intention of the bill. That part to be is concerning, and I'm basing that on some of the previous codes that I've seen pass in the past. Some of the Building Department staff that we've Page 10 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 had in the past, that helped write them being part of material supply offices in Hawaii County. So, that's my thoughts. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. If I might respond, Chair. Appreciate you bringing that up. At our last Committee hearing, members wondered if Council Member Hustace and I could elaborate on the kinds of expertise of individuals we were looking for the commission. So, this is our attempt to just begin to paint the picture of folks that work in the industry and have the experience of implementing the codes that are ordinance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of what is written here would,empower the group to actually draft a bill for ordinance. The intention is for this commission to be a sounding board. So, any ordinances must either come from the County Council or Department. And we would see this commission as a place to enter into a healthy debate around these ordinances. And really think through if this a plan that the County would like to proceedwith, these are the laws that are being entertained, how would implementation actually work in community? I think folks that are responsible for implementing these ordinances would be in the best position to weigh in on thartopic. That's what we were thinking. I don't think we ever thought the commission as actually drafting law. I think that would,absolutely be a conflict of interest. But more so, a sounding board. You know, experts in a number of different arenas that the Council, the Mayor, the Administration, can seek guidance on. Thank you. CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member aneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`UKLEINFELDER: I appreciate the response. I think we should walk that line very carefully. And I agree, they won't be writing code. To the contrary, having them review and evaluate proposed amendments puts it front of us giving us direction as the experienced body, and I like that. 1Maybeit's just the material supply section. Because that really does lend itself to, "Let's pass a code,"per se to require 5/8-inch sheathing on all the roofs in Hawaii County going forward. And I also supply the 5/8-inch sheathing. That is a very fine line between what that person should or should not be recommending to the County, because we start to run into—it's going to pose a conflict of interest at some point along the line. But the rest of them, I like the rest of them, architecture, engineering. I mean, although there's an inherent interest in all these different fields, who better than Page 11 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 to walk through what should and shouldn't be done as far as building codes and amendments to ordinances that are existing, than them. But being very careful not to give them too much say and swing over a Council that may or may not know the difference. So, that's my thoughts. Then, open to the amendment. I may come back and look at something in the future. Thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. On the amendment, first of all, appreciate the inclusion of the appeals process. I think that's super important when we have anybody making discretionary decisions. I'm actually going to offer a counter argument, respectfully, to having a building supply person participating in this process. You know, I think there's the opportunity,for us to allow for utilizing alternative materials that we don't have the opportunity,to use (3:10:50). You know other materials that this kind of expertise may notexist in some of these other fields. So, I think looking at novel building processes and materials might be something that creates to a regenerative local economy and something like that, I would say that this commission would be a Sunshine Law commission. So, all of their meetings would be public record; So, if there was a scenario that you described when somebody has a product that they were tryingto push, it would on the record from the meeting. So, the council that was reviewing their recommendations could make that determination. That recommendation came from somebody that might have had an ulterior motive. That's what I would counter that argument with. I have some other comments again, on the main bill, and I will also apologize for notdoing my homework, which I said I would do. I now get a little side tracked by some other things like the tsunami. Anyway, I do appreciate these amendments. There's a couple of things I would like to hit on when we get back to the main bill, but I'm supporting this and appreciate the work on it. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Onishi. MR. ONISHL Thank you, Madame Chair. Sommer, can you come up? So, I guess we have to talk about the amendment, and I just wanted your thoughts on how this whole commission is being created, you know, for HR(Human Resources). (Note: At this time, Human Resources Director Sommer Tokihiro came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 12 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MS. TOKIHIRO: So, HR wouldn't have any involvement in the development of the commission. I haven't had any discussions with the introducers about this beyond a very brief discussion that Ashley and I had when my Deputy Director and I were meeting with Ashley about another issue. And it was a re-org kind of possibility within DPW (Department of Public Works). And she said something about a Building Department or Permitting Department at that time. The only real discussion was if that would Code amendment or Charter amendment. So, we that would be a Charter amendm but, and particularly because with creation of a department like this,you'd be taking tasks from Public Works and from Planning, which are already clearly,outlined in the Charter. So, that was our only feedback, and the only participation that HR has had in this. MR. ONISHL Okay. But on the amendment, you're okay with it the way it's being written? MS. TOKIHIRO: HR wouldn't have any feedback on that. MR. ONISHL Okay, I'll call you upwhen we get to the main motion. Okay, thanks. I yield. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else on the amendment? Alright, based on what my colleagues Council Members Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and Kimball said, maybe substituting-the word, "supply" for the word, "expertise." Building material expertise, something like that as opposed to supply. Maybe that would kind of still in,a realm of being able to look at innovative ideas without necessarily suppliers. It's a little broader. Anyway,just a suggestion. Did You want,to add something? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I just had one question for the maker if can. CHR KAGIWADA: Go ahead, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR.KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. So, thinking about this,just reading Section 6-11.4. If a Council Member brings in an amendment to the Code. And the commission were to review and evaluate any amendment to the Code that was brought forward, do they review it like the Planning Commission does with favorable and unfavorable? Maybe we'll start with that one question. CHR KAGIWADA: Go ahead, Council Member. Page 13 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Sorry, Chair. Thank you. Because this commission would be subject to Sunshine Law, their meetings would happen in an open setting. They also do have a Corporation Counsel there to make sure that they aren't going beyond what they can discuss. But we envision a recommendation. There isn't anything here about it being favorable or unfavorable. Because we all know that with the Planning Commission, if you go beyond a certain timeframe, or you don't meet quorum, it's an automatic unfavorable. And what we want is we don't want there to be a time constraint on the commission meeting to deliberate about an amendment. We want to make sure they have enough time to have robust discussion and to send their actual feedback. They can support it There could be a mixed bag of folks in support or in opposition. But the whole point is to justget feedback from industry to help add, I think, a bit more texture to Council deliberations. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So,then,if an amendment is brought forward, it would go through the commission like a requirement, as we do for certain sections of our code where it has to get to the Planning Commission for review and then come back to the Council before we can deliberate? Are we setting in time constraints and requirements like that within this commission? CHR. KAGIWADA: Go ahead, Council Member. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: We have not within the Charter. I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but this needs to be established first, and if we want to give specific guidance for how the Council engages with the commission And if we want there to be a timeframe in which they respond, I suggest those details be added to the County Cade should this Charter amendment pass. 1VIR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I like the idea of a supervisory, but not so much, for us to have to send it to the commission; wait for an answer back before we can proceed with the bill. It won't be for me, but whoever future Council walks in the door. Just to keep that process streamlined. And understanding that's future, but just walking through it in my head. Okay, thank you. CHIR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Okay, anybody else on the amendment? Alright, seeing none, all those in favor of amending Bill 68 with the contents of Communication 376.2 please say, "aye." Any opposed? Page 14 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 68 with the contents of to Amend: Comm. 376.2 was carried by the following roll call vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Hustace, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada—7. Noes: Committee Member Onishi — 1. Absent: Committee Member Galimba— l. Excused: None. CHR. KAGIWADA: Back to the main motion. Council Member Inaba. Motion to Amend: Mr. Hustace moved to amend Bill 68 with the contents of Comm. 376.1. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. CHR KAGIWADA: Council Member Inaba, go ahead. MR. INABA: Thank you. A pretty straightforward amendment. This came from our friends in the field, actually. And itwas just to clarify, because right not, the language says that the commission would.review and evaluate proposed amendments to building, electrical,plumbing, and fire codes originating from international and state code councils. So, to not make it confusing,since most things that come to the Council don't necessarily come directly from the international council, we're removing, "Originating from international and state code councils." And saying that this commission will 'review and evaluate any proposed amendment. So, it's very clear whether it's initiated by the department; initiated by the Council member, the commission would review: So, a point of clarity there and making sure that we're not confusing anyone with our Charter language later on. Ask for your support. Thank you. CHR KAGIWADA: Council Member Hustace, on the amendment. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Council Member, in the amendment we just discussed, there were some around that same period in regard to the commission, some of that was already covered necessarily in there, right? MR. INABA: Sorry, I don't understand the question. MR. HUSTACE: Sorry, for your amendment, Communication 376.1, some of this language is already covered under the previous amendment, correct? Am I missing—it's a little different, right? We struck out, "Originating from internation and state code councils." Page 15 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MR. INABA: Got it,yes, I see what you're saying, Council Member Hustace. Actually, I'm going to withdraw since it does seem to do the same. I let Council Member Kierkiewicz know I was going to do it, but it's looks like yours is a little more comprehensive than my amendment. I yield for now. CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Kimball, go ahead. MS. KIMBALL: Actually, there is one pretty important difference between what Chair Inaba is proposing and what was proposed in the previous amendment. And that's the, "As required under State Law,"part. So, if the introducers actually intendI mean the Building Code,is code. So, this Council could always originate an amendment that wouldn't necessarily be required by State Law. So, I would actually recommend, because it's very similar, going with Council Member Inaba's recommendation because it takes out that one requirement, "As required by State Law." Because there may be other amendments that are not required,by HRS'(Hawai`i Revised,Statutes). CHR KAGIWADA: Council Member Inaba do you want to withdraw your withdrawal? MR. INABA: No, I'm just checking. Mr. Clerk, if you could just provide some guidance just because it's overlapping. MR,HENRICKS: It is overlapping, and it's not abundantly clear how the sentence would,read. It mean itwould technically yeah, it's not clear how these two would,work together. MR. INABA` I'm going to withdraw, and then we can clean that up, maybe next time. Okay, thank you: Withdraw Motion Mr. Inaba withdrew his motion to amend Bill 68 with to Amend: the contents of Comm. 376.1 CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. Alright, back to the main motion. Any comments or questions? Council Member Onishi. MR ONISHL Thank you, Madame Chair. If HR can come back. So, on Bill 68, any thoughts from HR or from the Administration? Page 16 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MS. TOKIHIRO: So, really, it's up to the Council to recommend amendments to the Charter. And ultimately, if it passes it would go to the voters. So, I couldn't speak other than that. MR. ONISHL Okay, like for staffing, all have to come under HR, right? MS. TOKIHIRO: Correct, right. Anytime there's a new department or agency created, there are those other considerations as well. , MR. ONISHL So, would HR need to have it reevaluated on the positions depending on how this Bill 68 is approved? MS. TOKIHIRO: Yes, I mean, it will have an impact on Public Works, and also on Planning. So, looking at how those positions get moved into a new department, there would be consultation with the unions as well: As far as how that works, change of supervision. MR. ONISHL So, timewise in implementing this, if it gets approved by the voters. MS. TOKIHIRO: It will take time. Yes. MR. ONISHL A while. Yes, okay. I just'wantedto make sure on that part. MS. TOKIIO: So, creation of the department is outlined here, the actual application of that, and the movement of positions; and how the other departments are affected. Something that we would have to work through. MR. ONISHI: Okay,,thank you. The other thing is, in the `Building codes commission shall, it has about fire codes. In the process, Fire are the ones that review the building plans, or when you submit an application, like Commercial, you have the Fire Department that's going to be reviewing that section of the fire codes, So, having the commission being able to do that, they you're going to have to make sure, I guess having the commission being selected—going have to get that background, right? So, that's something to look at. And so,just my thoughts. Thanks, I yield. CHR. KAGIWADA: Okay. Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. I wasn't here for the first reading, but just want to thank the authors of this bill. I think it's going to take us in a good direction; support the intent of separating out this into a new department. Page 17 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 But most especially, I think having the expertise of the commission, and retaining the Mayor's and Council's appointing and confirmation abilities, I think it's just an overall really good bill. So, thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I totally support the bill. So, thank you for bringing it forward. For years I've struggled watching IjPW, Public Works, try to—and the Manager or the Director try to handle the Highways Division, Permitting Division, Traffic Division. It's just an enormous department with such a giant kuleana that I've wondered if should betaken apart. Similar to what Oahu has where they have the Department of Highways, Facilities Management, I think it's called. So, I like the direction because it begins to pull away pieces and lets the focus be strictly permitting, or the larger majority of maintenance and highways. I think that is brilliant. So, I'll be supporting the bill.> But I do have my little niche issue with that amendment. But other than that, love the idea, and look forward to seeing it being put forward to the Hawaii County voters. CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member.' Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, as well, for putting this forward. This is a Charter amendment, so manini edits, butwe want to be careful.. You know,just looking first cif all, at the proposed Section 6-11.2, there's the lost clause three years, which will be supervisory or administrative. I don't want to get into the minutia, what's different between supervisory and administrative . But thinking aboutwhat the challenges are with the building process as it stands right„now, I think administrative capacity is more meaningful than just simply supervisory. Arid so, I would suggest that we just keep it administrative capacity rather than,either/or. I'm going to skip the second section. Back to the,commission, I'm concerned about the size of it. I don't think we need as many as nine members that meet those qualifications that we met before, especially, considering we will also have the Director of Public Works, the Planning Director, the Fire Chief. So, I would think maybe five might be a better number for those in that expertise. And then you have all of the other department heads and engineers. Wondering if the Department of Environmental Management should also be part of it. In particular, because as I understand it at this time, one of the biggest delays that we're seeing right now with the permitting process is the DOH (Department of Health), and the Wastewater permitting. So, I think we need them in the room. Page 18 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 The last thing I'll say, and for Council Member Inaba and Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, one of the other recommendations was in the list of the commissions' duties that I had made last time, and I had promised to make it and amendment and didn't get to it. But there's always these places where the code interpretation; two architects, two engineers could look at the same piece of code and interpret it a little bit differently. So I envisioned the Building Code Commission as being the body that is the deciding entity when those discrepancies come up-iti interpretation. The last thing I'll say about this is, per Section 6-113. I've been thinking a lot about this because of the various conversations that I've had with people in the industry. And when I say people in the industry; I don't mean just my husband. I mean, other people in the industry. You know, the challenges within moving permits through are, in many cases, logistical, right. And so this, item (c) about streamlining the process is critically important, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it rises to the level of distinction that it needs to be called out in the Charter amendment. If you're an administrator, I think that's what you do by default. So, I only bring that up in the context of the other two(a) and(b). I would like to consider either one 6f two options. One, that(a) and (b) be changed to say, "Cause the issue of and cause the enforcement of,"versus saying that,the,Building Director is going to'do those things, or that this Building Department rather than the Building Director is responsible for those things, The reason being is for those first two, there are components of it that do require professional license to make those decisions. And if you have a Building Director that does not have those professional licenses or requirements, they shouldn't be end-all be-all authority on those first two. But they can be if they're the administrator cause them to happen, and then we should follow-up with code language that says those duties should be performed by somebody with the appropriate licensures. o, I'm not sure which way the makers would want to go, but that would be my recommendation to either say that those are the duties of the department, or to say that the Director would cause those to happen, but they will actually not be the ones making those happen. Does that make sense? Okay, thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Anybody else? Comments, questions? Council Member Kierkiewicz. Page 19 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Thank you everyone for your really excellent feedback. Council Member Hustace and I have a few more things to button up until I think we have gotten to a place where we all feel good about the direction that we're headed. I think we'll think deeply on the building material supply terminology, how we might broaden that up based on kind of like the innovative materials that you were mentioning, Council Member Kimball. Council Member Onishi, you brought up,you knoW,,how long would it take to take a department like this set up. I know that in the early 2000's the functions that are now within the Department of Environmental Management(DEM) used to be in Public Works. It's hard to believe that Public Works was still even larger than it is today. Wow, shout out to the directors back then. But there is historical knowledge of how long that process took thatwe can look to. So, I'll work with Director Tokihiro to understand the timing. And then at the next hearing we can just present that information just because I think it would be useful to know how long it would'take to stand something like this up if the voters do pass it: Council Member Onishi also mentioned about making sure that there was the right expertise on the commission-to deal With the Fire codes. Right now, based on the amendment that we just adopted, we reference Fire protection, and I'm hoping that is'a sufficient enough expertise. Or is your suggestion that we include the Fire Chief as an ex-officio member. Okay, I'm getting a head nod there as a maybe.' Then Council Member Kimball, I appreciate the areas that you've identified. Council Member Hustace and I kind of think through and address, so we'll offer up some amendments. The one question that do have, now that I heard you address about the discrepancies a little bit more. So, I think we're all aware of Planning Director memos where there is some fuzziness in the Code, there is some direction through a memo. And so, it sounds like the commission to provide that clarity in the Code. Okay, alright, that's helpful. We can make an attempt to draft an amendment if you don't have time. But we can bring that up for the next discussion. I think that covers it, but I feel like we're in a really good place. Thank you for the great discussion everyone. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. I have one more thing just to add on to Council Member Kimball's point about the quorum. I mean the number on the commission as well as quorum. If you were to add DEM, that would be six County people. Page 20 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 Currently in the proposal, there would by nine. Additional outside people, that is 15. That is the number we've been working with for the Youth Commission, and having a really hard time, because you have to have at least eight every time. And it's just really tough. I would suggest if you go with like the number that Council Member Kimball suggested five. Then you will pretty be assured you can get a quorum for your meetings, because you'll have enough even just in the County members if the other people don't show up. I just really worry. Some might have to do with the way it's worded in the actual Charter amendment. But the way Corporation Counsel interprets the wording for the Youth Commission means that yes, we have to have eight nor more people to ever meet, and it's been a real problem. So, I know we often have problems with our boards and commissions in„getting quorum and meeting,, So, h guess I'd second keeping the number of the committee members down to something like five. Council Member Kaneali`i- leinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: To the makers, so, I forgot where this came up in what discussion how many years tiger,, But I believe it was City and County has what they call an Infrastructure Committee, which I found interesting because the handle all types of infrastructure. Given the discretion around what the Building Codes Commission would be doing, if Public Works Building Division was running what we would call an Infrastructure Commission, that could possibly take on some of the roles of making sure that all the departments are meeting all these different projects that are going on and,what we're doing as a whole and take that into consideration as part of that commission; It may have some merit there. Just thinking out loud on the idea of a commission being formed, but thinking about what Oahu does. And if that's helpful for the process or not, I'm not sure, but I can see there's a tie-in my brain. Because I've thought about this in the past, and I'll just stop right there. There might be some overlapping there that could be useful. Thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Anybody else? Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: With all due respect, Council Member, don't do that. They have a very different structure of how they've organized what we have in Public Works over there in the City and County of Honolulu, and I think it would add a whole another layer of complexity that wouldn't necessarily be good for us. Maui also has a commission that's sort of non-negotiable too, but that's neither here or there. Page 21 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 I did want to just make one comment, and this is a little bit of foreshadowing. With this component about adopting proposed amendments. You know, that's a process that we do to incorporate the Building Codes that have been approved by the State. One of the things in the industry that I think is uncertainty is the biggest problem, right? And so, one of the things we're introducing here is another level of uncertainty because of the timing that it would have to be reviewed by this commission. To that end, one of the pieces of legislation I've beeiiworking on, is for us to actually automatically adopt the new Building Code with the previous amendments that our County has made to it when it`is approved by the State so that we can provide that certainty. The Building community will know the same interval. I don't think that this changes the role of the Building Commission, I think that can still play together. I don't know that it's appropriate that it needs to change the language, but there might be just something to think about there. And it had just occurred to me just now, so I haven't really thought through it well. But one of the things that we don't want to introduce to this is something that's going to provide that and to create more uncertainty in terms of what the folks in the Building and Design industry know that they need to do. So,just something to think about with that. And yes, to your previous statement about what I was thinking with the discrepancies and interpretation. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you; I appreciate that, and just kind of reflecting on what folks'have said. We don't want another added layer, right, we don't want to create more complexities or kind of stall processes. So, I'll work with Council Member Hustace to maybe think about how do we insure that the work of the department of the Council maybe kind runs parallel with the Commission's review. So, even before something is brought forward to the Council, maybe the Council is just going to the Commission and saying, "Hey I have this idea." Help to kind of inform legislation. I don't know. I also don't want to box us in, but I want it to be clear so that it's not left up for all this massive interpretation. So; Corporation Counsel Schoen, we are definitely going to chat about that piece. Not right now, later on. Then, Clerk Henricks, I just want to confirm, I wasn't aware the ex-officio members constituted quorum for commissions. Can you just clarity that, please. Page 22 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MR. HENRICKS: Probably not under this scenario where they don't have the power to vote as well. So, they wouldn't count towards quorum. They're more there to be assistive. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, so quorum constitutes members that have a voting privilege? MR. HENRICKS: Most times. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Most times. CHR. KAGIWADA: You're looking at nine currently from the public. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member that's what we have here. And a couple of folks have raised their concern about that, that might be too much. But I'm worried about there being too little, right, of this perceived power and authority of this commission being in the hands of just five, anyway. Maybe seven. Council Member Hustace and Twill deliberate, and we'll come back to you folks if we have an amendment to this particular section. But I do appreciate the feedback. I,don't have anything else at this time, thank you. CHR KAGIWADA: Alright. Are you ready to move along with the vote? I just want to make sure, because there was a lot of things talked about. I don't know if you want to hold it here,or you want to move it. Motion to Postpone: Mr. Hustace moved to postpone Bill 68, as amended to August 19, 2025. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz. CHR KAGIWADA: Any discussion on the postponement? All those in favor please say "aye." Any opposed? Vote on'Motion The motion'to postpone Bill 68, as amended to Draft 2, to to Postpone: August 19, 2025, was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Hustace, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Galimba— 1. Excused: None. CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you very much. Bill 72, please. Page 23 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 Bill 72: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLES VI, CHAPTER 10, SECTION 6- 10.3, OF THE CHARTER OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAI`I(2024 EDITION), RELATING TO THE DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT Requires the Director of Environmental Management to have experience in public administration, private business, or a related field; removes the requirement that the director needs to have an engineering degree or another degree in a related field. Reference: Comm. 400 Intr. by: Council Member Kierkiewicz Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend passage of Bill 72 on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. This is actually a Charter amendment that was up for a discussion a couple ofterms ago that was brought forward by Council Member Aaron Chung. It wasn't ready for primetime then. But we are as a body evaluating the minimum requirements for various director roles across the County. I thought it would be great to just kind of bring this backup for discussion. I was doing some research around what the other counties require a similar director to have in terms of experience. For Maui County, there is no degree that is required nor any for City and County of Honolulu. There is no DEM on Kauai,just Public Works. They are not required to be a registered engineer. It basically talks about making sure that there is responsible administrative experience in the realms of public administration',and private"business. So, I just offer this up,for my colleagues to deliberate on, and if it's something that we want to put forward to the voters, because we feel as if we are struggling to attract director talent for this particular department. This is a vehicle to help achieve that. I yield. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for providing the opportunity to have these discussions. On the surface, I do think that there's a need for this director, not necessarily to have an Engineering degree, but to have some subject-matter expertise. Whether that is through education or experience. Page 24 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 So, you know, that is where I would want to see some changes in the wording. There had to be some component of a history of working in Environmental Management in some way. Unlike the Public Works Director, the degree and the degree and the engineering background I think is not as critical. My other comment is this inclusion of the words, "responsible administrative experience." I'm wondering what the author means by that. Responsible seems like a very qualitative word. I'm wondering if what you're specifically trying to get at with that. If we could just use other terminology that would be better defined to achieve what you're trying to achieve with that language. I think that would be good. CHR. KAGIWADA: Alright. Council Member Kdneali`i-k,leinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER I was looking for, I think, the Aaron Chung language of, "or lawyer." If I remember, did we have that in'the original bill? We're not going to put that in? L kind of liked that. I will go back and review Aaron's bill and go see where we Left off with that. He was very specific. So, maybe a little bit bias towards attorneys. Okay, I yield. CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you. Any other comments or questions? Alright, I just wanted to raise the issue thatboth with this and some of the other ones we were talking about seems like salary keeps coming up. I know reducing qualifications seems like something a little more within our control. We're like, "It's on the Salary Commission." But I did check,the Salary Commission supposed to be meeting, August 28t' and September 2e, this summer,this year. And I will be asking them to make sure thatthey look at'some of these really important positions that we seem to be having, you know, running into roadblocks on; to see if they can get closer to the private sector on some of these salaries. Because I feel likes even though we are trying to do this in a way, opening it up and everything, I still keep hearing both from the administration and other people that it's actually the salary and the longevity or the security of the position. They are two of the biggest reasons why we can't get good people in here. So, I just wanted to bring that up. I hope that we can, maybe, continue this conversation, but make sure that we wait at least, until we have a little feedback from them since it is something that's going to the voters. We have time, and I hope we could at least till after September 24t'to make some final decisions on some of these before going forward to see if they come up with any solutions that we think are going to be really helpful in helping us fill some of these positions. So, that's all I have to say on that. Go ahead, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Page 25 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I appreciate the feedback. Council Member Kimball, I can certainly draft some amendment language regarding the director having experience in an engineering-related position. I know that City and County of Honolulu specified sanitary engineering. I can come up with a couple of options just so that we can have a robust discussion around that. The use of the word, "responsible,"was probably me being too creative, and I think Jon, sort of like frowns on being creative with the code. Sorry, to blame you, Clerk Henricks. The Charter shouldn't have any vibes, you know, I mean, like you just got to be very straightforward. But what I'm trying to achieve here was, does this individual possess a breadth of experience? More than just managigpersonnel, but do'they know how to run an operation of the scheduling,the data management, the communication? And maybe all of that is considered administrative experience, I don't know, but it's certainly more than just managingpeople. That's also probably like a new idea that I came up with. Because it ca 'be a very complicated department, as we all know, to run. Thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: I was actually surprised that LRB'let you get away with sticking "responsible," in there. Because every time I try to do that, they're like, no way,that's qualitative. ,]But I think you hit the nail on the head with, like maybo operational experience is terminology in addition to supervisory experience. I"think there's ways to get at what you're trying to use as terminology that's more definitive. Just to be clear in terms of like the subject matter expertise, wasn't really thinking necessarily about engineering subject matter expertise. But expertise in the solid wastewater arena, which may or may not be engineering. So, it's more within that field. That's it. CHR KAGIWAI)A: Council Member Onishi. MR. ONISHL Thank you. I'd like to bring up HR again. Sommer, we just had the;ground-breaking last week for the Hilo Wastewater. And I've been talking to the staff from before about, I guess the staffing, the qualifications they need; also, to have the training in order to get promoted to a higher level. Because at the Wastewater facility, there's so many different levels, and you can maybe explain. Plus, also there was a person. There was an engineer there that had the degree, I think, in Wastewater. Is that correct or something like that. Page 26 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 He had this certain degree that basically, only he had. Like in a pool of maybe five, or four, or three, or whatever. But he was the one that had those qualifications. But he retired; then I'm hearing he wants to come back again to Wastewater. So, I don't know if you folks had opened that up again. I don't know how much you can talk about it. But talking about how the staffing at Wastewater and what kind of knowledge the director would need because of that facility and so forth. Thank you. MS. TOKIHIRO: So, for our Wastewater Treatment Plant Operators, there's various levels for that, and it's a combination of certification; but then also, years of experience, that you know, build upon each other to be reallocated up to the higher levels. And then there are supervisory positions that require degrees in Engineering, etcetera. So, different positions having different requirements. You know the operators, for example. I mean, they're in there, actually operating that plant'and adding chemicals and making sure all the balances are there, and things are operating appropriately. So, different levels of engagement with the actual operation requiring different levels of certification and experience. MR. ONISHL Right. And so, now if at the facilities, if all this, like the requirements or certificates needs to be required by the staff, right? So, if you have someone who's the head of the department, with not that much knowledge of what the whole facility—because there's this one person that used to work there that retired, and he had that certain degree of that wastewater. So, you're not'going to have that many qualified people, but you're going to have engineering qualification of your staff? MS. TOKIHIRO: So, yes. You know, I understand where you're going with that. I think that because of the size and the operation of our departments, it Would be very challenging to find directors that had the same qualifications or licensure or degrees that all of their staff have in every division, right? So, that's where from an organizational structure perspective, we have these other supervisors that would have the necessary degrees and knowledge to specifically supervise this division, or this staff performing this function. So, whether or not a director is effective in their role without having all the licenses, and certifications, and educational degrees that their staff do,you know, I don't know. MR. ONISHL I'm not really saying that they'd have to get all, but at least some knowledge, right? Because then they need to know, because what I'm hearing from staff, they're not being allowed to get the training in order to move up into the different steps of positions. Page 27 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 So, that's why they're stuck at certain levels, and they cannot I guess morale gets down, right, because they're stuck at this certain level. They cannot get the required training to get the certification to move up to get a better pay. And so, it all becomes too, within the knowledge to me, of the directors, right, because they need to know how to improve or how to get their coworkers to move up. Also knowing that within the Waste facility, you need to have these certain qualifications to do these other works, right? So,you cannot get somebody who's not really qualified doing something that needs to be'like a Level III, and you're only a Level I, right? So, that's what we've got to start looking at too. And so, that's where I feel maybe the director needs to have at least some type of engineering background. MS. TOKIHIRO: Where the other experience you were mentioning as Council Member Kimball and Council Member Kierkiewicz were talking about,was identifying specific experience areas. You know whether or not the Council chooses to include the degree or remove that specific degree requirement, making sure that in those qualifications, you're adequately addressing the experience that you're looking for to identify someone who can adequately run that department. MR. ONISHL Right. Soy it's just something to think about,you know, to look at not removing that section or that,wording,about the engineering department. I yield.. Thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. IKIERKIEWICZ: Thank you; Chair. I wanted to address Council Member Onishi's comments 'about just making sure that the Director has sufficient experience in'these various arenas. Specifically, where it has to do with waste, because you want them to be able to have a meaningful conversation with folks that are leading the divisions that are doing the work day-in and day-out. You watt to make sure that they understand the industry and can speak the lingo. Okay, alright. I think I have an amendment that will satisfy the concerns that you're bringing forward as well as Council Member Kimball. Thank you for offering that. Thank you, I yield. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: I just wanted to add to Council Member Onishi is saying and something that I think we need to consider when we're looking at these definitions of the directors. Page 28 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 It's not only being able to find people with those appropriate qualifications, but once they get in and they're appointed to those positions, that the Civil Service staff actually respects and listens to their direction. I mean these are political appointments, and I think Council Member Villegas is going to love this. I think about RFK(Robert F. Kennedy) having Health and Human Services. And there is Civil Service staff throughout the Federal Government that are just not going to listen to anything to anything that he suggests that they do. And that's kind of typical, right, between the pollical appointments. MS. KIMBALL: And so, you know not only considering who we find and what qualifications they have, but making sure that they're going to be able to earn the respect to be effective from the civil service staff. And so,to have that subject matter expertise and it has to be exclusive to engineering,but running a Wastewater Department, running a Solid Waste Department. That"is ,going to be important in order for them to be effective in their position. Also to Council Member Kagiwada's point, you know, yes, we have to be worried about salaries,the security in the position;but I was having a conversation that I think is important for all of us to think about the other day, which is having a position'as a director within the administration of the County is also an enormous stepping stone for people, career wise. And I think we need to do more to actually,promote the opportunity that it could potentially prQvide to fairly recent graduates that have just gotten out of school and maybe have a few years of administrative experience. I think, you know, I don't know if this has been done, but going to the Dean of Engineering over in Honolulu at Manoa(University of Hawaii at Manoa) and saying who are some of the recent graduates we have that would like to come home; here's a tremendous opportunity to serve in County and build your resume for a couple of years. So, I think we want to get a little better at messaging and say this is a great opportunity for people who are just kind of starting out to build their resume. Thanks. CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Kierkiewicz and then Council Member Onishi. MS:'KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I agree with all that. I think there is so much we can do to kind of build up capacity and have pathways for local talent to serve in leadership positions within our community. I actually just want to note that I wasn't making stuff up when I chose the word responsible. I was reminded that this term is also used when selecting someone to lead Corporation Counsel, Finance, Planning, and Fire Chief. What the original founders like sort of meant by use of the word responsible, I'll need to do some legislative Page 29 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 digging, but I was certainly on to something. I just want to be clear. Thank you, Chair. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Go ahead, Council Member Onishi. MR. ONISHL Thank you, Madam Chair. I just, on the note of Ms. Kimball, like working with different engineering universities and so forth. So when I got on, the economy was really bad, so a lot of engineering firms were letting their engineers go. So just so happen, Wastewater (Department)had positions, so they would apply but then they got notices from H that they're over qualified. And that's when I kind of tripped out. You have somebody at that level, even though they're going for a lower level, we take them because then we can utilize their skills, right? So, I don't know, maybe that's the policy for HR. So back then, that's what happened and so I was shocked. And so if we had hired all these engineers back then, we would be in a good situation, I think, for the Wastewater (Department), but because of that, we lacked the man power and the knowledge. So, I just wanted-to' mention that. Thank you. CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anyone else? Alright, well to Council Member Kimball's point, I agree, we have to broaden our perspectives about also what a leader looks like. And so, I think looking at potentially younger people and giving them a chancey and people that we don't necessarily think as leaders maybe, but are certainly capable. I'd like to see more women in leadership positions in this County. But I think there is that ability that we broaden our perspectives. So, thank you'f6i that idea. And with that, Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS; KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I appreciate everyone's feedback. I'm not ready to send this to the Council. I want us to be good with the legislation before it is heard'by the Council body. So, I'm going to come back with some amendments and would like to postpone Bill 72 to the August 19, 2025 Committee meeting. So, that I have time to put together amendments for the committee to consider. Thank you, Chair. Motion to Postpone: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to postpone Bill 72 to August 19, 2025. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR. KAGIWADA: Any discussion on the postponement? All those in favor please say "aye." Any opposed? Page 30 GOEAC-15 August 5,2025 Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Bill 72 to August 19, 2025, to Postpone: was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Hustace, Inaba, Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Galimba— 1. Excused: None. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you everybody. And that ends our committee meeting today at 4:03 p.m. We're adjourned. ADJOURN- Seeing no further business, Chair Kagiwada adjourned the meeting 4t MENT: 4:03 p.m. Approved: Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair (Date) Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs JK/dt Page 31