Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PCPWMT 2025/09/02 (2024-2026) DRAFT Policy Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit 4th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii September 2, 2025 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Policy Committee on Public Works and ORDER: Mass Transit was called to order at I1;02'a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr. James E. Hustace, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. James E. Hustace, Chair Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Vice Chair Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba,Member Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi, Member(came its later) Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member Absent& Excused: Mr. Matt Kaneali'i-Kleinfelder,Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on'Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Susan Hamilton: Bill 75 (Comm. 429), comment. CHR. HUTACE: Thank you. Mr. Clerk, if you could read in our single bill on today's agenda. PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 75: REPEALS SECTION 5 OF ORDINANCE NO. 22-94 AND AMENDS CHAPTER 18, ARTICLE 4, DIVISION 1, SECTION 18-90, OF THE HAWAI`I COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO FARES FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION Extends the temporary suspension of fares for all mass transit riders through December 31, 2028. The fare suspension will not p'ply to County-contracted shared-ride services or curb-to-curb van services operated by the Department of Parks and Recreation. Reference: Comm. 420 Intr. by: Council Member Hustace (B/R) Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend passage of Bill 75 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada. CHR. HUSTACE: Before we go into discussion,you know, there were some questions that we had, our office received aboutthis and bringing this forward. So, I wanted to welcome in. And for the record, Mr. Clerk, Mr. Onishi has joined us at this time. I want to welcome Administrator Zach Bergum here to kind of walk us through this bill a little bit and the upcoming changes, potential impacts, and any questions you might have. So, in,preceding those questions, we thought if you could kind of go through a couple slides. So, Administrator, if you could introduce yourself, and then we can'go through some of the changes here set forth in Bill 75:, (Note: At this time, Acting Mass Transit Administrator Zachary Bergum came forward to`address the members of the Committee.) MR. BERGUM: Yes, good morning. Thank you, Council Member Hustace. My name is Zach Bergum, Acting Administrator for Mass Transit Agency. With me today is Kelly Ann Fujii, Accountant I. Thank you all very much for your time today, and taking time out of your day to discuss this program and really just different overview that we'll look at discussing today. So, in front of you also, I put a couple slides there. But really this is an overview, like I mentioned that will discuss some financial information as well as different programs within the Mass Transit Agency. Page 2 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 (Note: At this time, Mr. Bergum provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online at http:Hhawaiicountygranicus.com. A copy of the presentation is made part of the record, see Comm. 429.1.) CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Administrator. I hope this kind of gives some insight to the members on operations for Mass Transits as it relates to Bill 75 particularly. And I wanted to open the floor if there are questions for the Administrator and Kelley Ann here for more specifics. So, Council Member Onishi you want to start us off with your question? MR. ONISHL Thank you, Chair. So, working with Finance,aid thank you Director for being here. You know,I had questions about the security and the cost, and so forth. And she mentioned what you folks are doing as some kind of financial study or a Cost of Fare Study; :Director you can help me with that. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Diane Nakagawa came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. NAKAGAWA: Sure_ Goomorning, Diane Nakagawa, Finance Department. What I think'you were referring to, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is we started this discussion,actually during the Budget hearings this past year. And it's really taking a look at all of the different operations in Mass Transit: We looked at the increasing budget of Mass Transit over the past several years, and we're also very concerned about GET (General Excise Tax) funding. And in all of that; Mass Transit,over the past several months, at the beginning of this year,has really,been looking at each of the programs that Zach spoke on today andlo6king for efficiencies and ways to continue to provide services. But making sure that we're providing the right service in the community that is being used. So,being very cautious about our expenses. So, those are the things that they have been looking at. They are really close to some of the route efficiencies that can be put in place within the next month or so. We're in the middle of the Hele On contract negotiation right now. So, we are doing our due diligence to make sure that our cost is fair and reasonable. So, I think within a few months we can probably come back and talk about some of the changes that they're looking to implement, specifically, for the next budget. But also,just programmatically to make sure that the programs align with the needs of the community in a very efficient manner. Page 3 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 MR. ONISHL Okay, thank you. And that was it,because one of my concerns during the Budget time was that,you know, we're paying for this security in different areas. And we all know, it's a certain group that the security needs to be there to watch over them, right? So, I cannot see where we have to use funding to offset this expense for a certain group, right, whereas we could get compensation like a small fee or whatever. I think we could limit that certain group maybe from being active on our buses. So,just something to look at or how we can deter this situation that we're facing. Because you folks know Mass Transit, which groups are the ones that are making these situations, that we need the security. MR. BERGUM: Thank you for that. I do appreciate that. Every month is different,you know. It might be a student problem one month. We have under- age drinking on the bus that gets crazy. That happens 7 o'clock in the morning. That's just one example versus you know, something happening from'an elderly person you know 9:00-10:00 o'clock at tight, or somebody just asked to be removed off the bus because they're maybe intoxicated or under the influence they don't want to be. All I'm saying is that every situation is different. In,every situation, we've got to handle delicately. It's really hard to plan it. I don't'think we're ever going to go back to a place or time with'these buses where we're going to go,you know what, no security,needed at any bus stop; no security needed on any bus. I think we're always'going;to need some level of it, to be completely honest with you. This is kind,of where we are now. But just like Diane was saying, I mean, we are honing in on where we can save costs. Locking at bus shelters and bus cleaning. You know, we used to clean and the shelters more frequently because of COVID (Coronavirus Disease) at the time. We're looking at reducing that. We don't need to be doing as much as we were a couple years ago. We're looking at route modifications due to ridership, absolutely. We have 23 routes that we're running, but some of those runs need to be combined or reduced or rerouted,you know what I mean? The Saddle Road, it's really hard on the buses, maintenance-related. So, also thinking about maybe Express up the Hamakua Coast, you know, that might also be an option. So, we are really honing in when it comes to just thinking about all of these items and really analyzing because we are multimodal. You know, we're not just buses, we're also Bike Share; we're also Vanpool; we're also Shared-Ride Taxi; Bus, Paratransit, Micro-Transit. I mean, it's a huge thing in regard to just public transit. But we're looking closely at all of it, which we have to be. Page 4 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 MR. ONISHL No, and it's good. And so, I had a friend; he was contracted, and he had mentioned to me about how the support, like say, they want someone to get off the bus. The support of getting the response from Mass Transit and also, I guess from the Police Department to get that, right? Because they could be on whatever highway, right, and they're on the side on the shoulder waiting for assistance. So, that's a problem like you mentioned earlier. But then, also, the Director and I had a discussion that some of the problems are with the homeless. So, we talked, and we joked that maybe some of the homeless funding should be used to help offset you guys and'that expense. Because they're part of the cause too, right? So, something to maybe have a discussion later on. Like, you know, we can sit down and talk about that. But we've got to try to figure out something, right, to see. I remember back, like I mentioned to Chair Inaba in 2008 when the new Administration came in, the prior Admim strati on,offered the free bus ride. At that time, the economy was going down. So, we had to charge, right? And so, that's what too, we've got to look at. I mean,this economy is not going to stay stable like how it is. One day, it's going to go'down. So, we need to look at other alternatives, right. But also, so, we had to charge at that time. Then, I think what happened was it became a little lower ridership. Because people didn't want to pay to get on`the bus, right. But we couldn't help. That was part of—we had to cover some of the expenses. So,just something to talk about"or see what else can we do to help. Because to me, this is to me, expense we could use better in other areas, like you said, like the Paratransit, so forth; or going unto other areas where they don't have the bus services now and get out there, right? The last thing I wanted to mention is about your communication. I know back then"in,certain rural areas, there was no cell phone coverage or whatever. So, they were looking at some kind of alternative radio system that you folks have. Is that in place? MR. BERGUM: We do have radios in the vehicles, yes. And so, also, if you're talking about Paratransit, you know,people that are registered under Paratransit are in direct communication with our service contract. MR. ONISHL On this island there's certain areas like dead spots, right, and so, your communication with the driver, with homebase, you folks had to use a certain type of communication, right? MR. BERGUM: We have the two-way radios. Page 5 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 MR. ONISHL Okay, I yield, thank you. CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Just to be clear and make sure I understood it correctly, based on your presentation, it sounds like we have the funding to continue with fare-free. It would cost us at least$1 million to transition to gathering fares, because of the technology needed to install the machines, right, to garner the fares. And when you add money back onto the buses, then you have another degree of security necessary because of the fiscal responsibility to have money out there in a public sphere. So, I suppose, to me, it becomes pretty'clear that we have the money to continue with fare-free. It would cost us money to transition. But I also hear what Council Member Onishi is talking about with the diversity of issues based`on,some of the socioeconomic diversity of riders. I hear that in District 7 we have some challenges with some chronically unhoused people consistently causing challenges. So,it's this dance of you providing this opportunity. What do they call it? The tragedy of the commons when people take advantage of a potential sphere of unaccountability. And it does harm to the greater good, right? Unfortunately, I don't think this is something,in society wait over a thousand years and never being able to get away from. But I do think it behooves us to recognize, you know, where the responsibility lies is with those misbehaving, right? We can only do so much in,order to prohibit that. I suppose in:simple'terms, because it sounds like I've been talking in circles, I support continued fare-free, because I feel like it does more good than harm. And it does provide for people in very rural communities that have, you know, a lot of ALICE (Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed) households, that just that bit of support by the County goes a long way. I want to commend you guys for how far we have come just in my, you know, seven years here in Council it's come a long way from when we first got here. I know that there is always more to go. I like the thought processes from M krotransit participation where we've come as far as Paratransit and serving that community often including not leaving them stranded and bringing them in to help solve some of those challenges. So, it's unfortunate about the hydrogen buses. Once again, kind of par for the course when you're trying new technologies. But I hope that we will continue to see our fleet being strengthened with electric buses and staying flexible as we navigate all the different circumstances. Page 6 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 What do they say, "Changes is the only constant." So, thank you for that. And I suppose to me, it just gets clear that if it's going to cost us more money to charge more money, then at this point, if we have it in the budget to cover fares, that is a wise thing to continue at this time. I yield. CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Thank you Administrator and staff for being here. This is good information to have. And T do appreciate your thoughtful responses about the variety of issues around security that you have on the buses. Because I do know that, like you said, it's not any,one group of people or anything. And that, obviously, individuals as pointed out;You could have people who come back that are problematic time after time, andyou have to deal with them. But it doesn't mean that other people who look like them are in the same circumstances. We're not causing trouble should they be all lumped into one boat. So, I do appreciate your thoughtfulness on,that. Obviously, Mass Transit serves so many different populations. Our kupuna; especially; people who can't drive or can't afford cars, obviously, which are very expensive to get and maintain here. I do think it's,great that the keiki are riding the bus. Sorry to hear that they're also sometimes causing some issues; some of the students and everything. So, you're right, we're not going to get rid of security anytime soon. Because there's always going to be individuals from different places that have to be dealt with. So, we'll just continue to monitor that. I do like to see that your ridership is continuing to grow, right? You're almost to a'milhon a year,that's great. And I wanted to ask a little bit about the whole Ride-Share, because I know there the transition a few years ago with the Share- Ride Taxi, and thenjust ask you feel like that's going now, or are you getting complaints? Are you feeling like people are understanding the system now, once it transitioned finally, and how it's going? MR. BERGUM: Oh, yeah, thank you very much for that. The Shared-Ride Taxi is going good,you know. So, the County subsidizes $15.80 for a passenger when they'get into a cab to go on their journey, which equivalent is about four miles. So, we basically cover the first four miles. After that, then it's for the passenger to cover the rest of the charge of that fare. So, we've been working the last couple years with Daniel's Kwiki and Marhysa's Taxi. It's been great,you know. Since I've been with the agency going on three Page 7 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 years, it's been that. We budgeted $1 million toward it. Like I said, we're about three-quarter's of a million into it now with the program. But it's going good. We're kind of thinking of, you know, even though we're talking about fare-free for bus—if we were to go back to fares tomorrow, taxi kind of have to follow suit, right, because you can't have a free-fare bus system with a free taxi service. MS. KAGIWADA: Right, you must be overwhelmed. MR. BERGUM: So, we kind of have to follow,suit" 'So, we were kind of mentioning earlier, for multimodal, there's just so many pieces to this huge puzzle. So, when it comes to Shared-Ride Taxi, it's doing,great. It services Hilo really well here. You know, especially like the kupuna, it can go upand do the door-to-door, right? So, a lot of these folks, they depend on` hat. Because you know, sometimes it's hard to walk a distance to the bus stop, right? But when it's a taxi service, they can basically do door-to-door. Take somebody to their medical appointment or to the grocery store, or whatnot. MS. KAGIWADA: So, it's kind of like the Microtr'ansh a little bit in Hilo, but we are going to expand it to other places that really need it, like Puna and other places that have a lot of people. Many not"a lot, not enough to do a fixed route, but enough people that really need support in' other places. So, I really love the Microtransit piece of it. Could I ask, I know you've got funding in here for some bus stops and signage. Do you have like a plan for which ones are going to go in and what phases or whatever.,Is that something that'you can maybe share with us just later if you have that? MR. BERGUM: Absolutely. MS. FUJ&, There's a list that we have that we had made with HDOT (Hawai`i Department'of Transportation). We can provide you that list to show you what bus stops and bus shelter will be going where. 1VMS: KAGIWADA: So, some are going to be full ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) bus stops, and some are just like signage for more like a bike stop almost? MS. FUJIL Yeah, it varies. Different locations have different situations that they need some signage. Some need an ADA Bus Stop platform, right? It's not ADA compliant if they got most of it. And there's some still that needs to be ADA compliant. And some need shelters, or both on there. Page 8 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, great. MR. BERGUM: This list that we're doing now is kind of the harder numbers that we're doing now. So,you know, about two years ago we did a bunch of different bus stops and shelter improvements, but this is kind of the next phase to the more difficult ones that are going to require ground disturbance, leveling, and ADA pads. MS. KAGIWADA: Alright, okay. Just going back to the grants thing, I just had one question. So,you mentioned that several of these grants are from past years; and several of them involve buying buses. So, I guess I'm getting the sense that like you've either put the orders in, and you're just waiting Qn those to arrive, or I mean, obviously going back to FY (fiscal year) 2021, you still have outstanding grants going on there, right? So, are you running into trouble, or is,it just what everybody's facing? Can you just say a little more about why we have,these grants going back so far, and we haven't expended them. MS. FUJIL I can answer some of that question. So, for the fiscal year, '21 grants, Mass Transit has planned to purchase 10 more Paratransit vans. Right now, Mass Transit ordered two of those vans, and we are waiting for them to see if that's the plan with want to go'with the Paratransit vans. If that is, then they will continue, and they will put it,outto bid and order the 10 Paratransit vans. This list doesn't cover the old grants thatare on the list. There are grarils on our list thatMass Transit is working on this fiscal year to get. For example, Hybrid buses, battery-electric buses to provide that service. That is the plan that Mass Transit is working on to get that into place. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Is there any concern; are any of these that we could be funding if we don't expend it by a certain amount of time, or are they whenever you're able to spend it, you can spend it? They're ours no matter what. MS. FUJII: To my understanding,yes. They're ours, we can use them. Every quarter, Mass Transit does report to HDOT on the funds for the grant to see where we are in purchasing those vehicles. M.S. KAGIWADA: Okay, great, alright. Thank you so much. Very supporting of continuing the free fare for Mass Transit. Thank you. CHR. HUSTACE: Director, did you have anything to add in there? Thank you. MS. NAKAGAWA: Yes, please. Just a little bit more information. You know, the goal has been over the last, at least five years, to add buses; aggressively add buses. Page 9 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 So, one of the reasons is we pay more on our Hele-On contract for bus and driver. Alright, so, we want to add our own buses. That has been the plan. We've had procurement challenges over the years, and it's not a resource issue. It was a protest issue that's held up some of our acquiring buses. We're working through them, and I think we're getting there with some of the smaller ones. But there was a time when we were held in our procurement of acquiring some of these buses. So, we need to get back on track. I just wanted to share that that really did hold us up for quite a while. MS. KAGIWADA: I see. Okay, but you feel like you're starting to move and hopefully will continue. MS. NAKAGAWA: We do, and I think the variety of differenttiypes of buses that Mass Transit has been procuring is also helping build our fleet as well. But the goal is to definitely grow our fleet. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you so much. I yield. CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Over to Council Member Kierkiewicz, please, the floor is yours. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you,Chair: Thank you Administrator Bergum and Kelly Ann,for being here. Zach, I always love reminiscing the first time we met you. You were two weeks on the job, and you needed to be here for our Budget hearing. And I was impressed with you then; I'm still impressed with you. And I'm so glad that Kelly is on your team Thank you for sticking it out. I think the agency really needs stable leadership if we are going to be tackling these longstanding,issues'. 'So,thank you. I had,a question,about Bill 75 and the extension to 2028. Was there a particular reason why you were looking to extend it to three years, what was the strategy behind"that? MR. BERGUM: Well, you know, I'm just trying to be realistic with as many things that we've got going on. You know, we're pretty under-manned as well. o honestly just me trying to be realistic. Initially, I was thinking two years, and I wanted to do three,just to give us enough time. Because the last thing I want to do is to you know, to be here three years from now going, hey, we're not there. I want us to be where we're going to be with that goal. So, we have a pretty strict goal and envision right now, and Diane just hit it. We have to be getting our numbers up when it comes to vehicles. Not just buses, but Microtransit and Paratransit. Page 10 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 Right now, we're procuring nine Paratransit vans. We just got the third one here on Friday. We're putting them into operation. You know, since this whole Paratransit even started, this is just one example. And I'm trying not to ramble on too much, but we've only had seven Paratransit vans. That's it,just seven,you know. These things average 50,000 miles a year. The transmissions are failing, and we're buying new transmissions. But like Diane said;we`ve had some roadblocks when it comes to bus procurement andvehicle procurement. And so, that's what we have to do. And that will also bring us down in our budget costs, because it costs more if we have to rent a bus and a driver. It would be better just to rent or hire the driver, and we have the bus or the vehicle for supply. So, I mean, we're looking at everything with it. So, that three years is really the goal. Because, you know, we need to hire the program manager to come on to implement Microtransit. CHR. HUSTACE: Sorry, Mr. Bergum, one second. Members of the public, if you wouldn't mind keeping your voices dowry we're still in deliberation about a previous committee here. Thank you, Administrator, please continue. MR. BERGUM: But I mean, there's not no right or wrong answer to it or easier answer to that question. It's just trying to plan ahead as best as we can to make these changes, MS. KIERKIE ICZ: Given your department and the public some level of certainty what they can expect over the next few years. What's in the back of my mind is where the bulk of your budget is coming from right now. And that is the half percent 6f GET(General Excise Tax) and our authority to leverage that for this particular purpose. You know, how Highways, Transportation, Housing infrastructure is'set to sunset. Our ability as the County to leverage is set to sunset in'2030. So,I do think now is the time to start planning how do we wean ourselves off of that: What is your budget now, like $57 million? MR. BERGUM: It's $59 million. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: It's $59 million. In 2017,your budget was $14 million. Ridership in 2012 was 1.2 million. That's the highest it's ever been in our County. And when I look here at ridership, 940. We're kind of a long way from getting back to what the peak ridership was for a variety of reasons, right? Maybe we're not running the correct routes. And the instability of buses arriving on time. Page 11 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 These issues were many, many years in the making, and they're going to take some time to resolve. But I bring it up because I don't know that you can always count on that tranche of funding from the County General Fund when the GET sunsets and the Legislature decides not to grant us the authority to leverage it anymore. I'm not trying to say the sky is falling, but I kind of am. We want to be able to plan for that. So, I'm happy to hear about all the internal workings that's happening right now to get more Paratransit and Mic'rotransit. Also, thinking about evaluating routes. What's working`, ;Where is there a community need? And I do believe that there is a huge need,for shelter, signage, and benches. So, that folks can wait with'dignity. It pains me to see people waiting in the rain or in the hot sun, They might have forgotten their umbrella. So, if there's anything that we as Council Members can do to even deg work days with like the Eagle Scouts to put up a bunch of those shelters, and signs, and whatnot. Let's think through some of those strategies so that folks can be waiting in a nice structure for the bus to come. Are you folks having an internal dialogue about financial sustainabilty over the next five,ten years, what that looks like? MR. BERGUM: So, that goes back to also the routes. A few years ago, the routes were basically doubled. And,sod you also mentioned about the budget and where it was a few years ago. That's exactly'it. I mean a couple years ago; they were basically doubled. And so, honing in on the routes and modifying those is going to be a huge cost savings. I hear you when,you say the 2030 about the sunset of GET. I freak out inside too, just thinking about that; So, in'trying to plan that out, it's definitely going to take time on figuring that whole process out. But it's looking at our entire agency that makes us multimodal. That's what we've been talking about Shared-Ride. You know;Vanpool, HI-Bike. All of our routes. Security. It's taking a close look on all of that: Just to better the community and to make it cost effective. So, we are looking at that. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, I also think about the public perception of the bus. I'm grateful that the woman earlier had testified about her positive experience. But have to tell you, when the school year was about to begin, and there was a shortage of DOE(Department of Education)bus drivers, and a suggestion to, hey, let's get the kids on the Hele On Bus. And there was community protests about that, because folks don't see the resource as safe or reliable. To a question that was posed rhetorically earlier, is it because of other kinds of folks that a free bus opportunity is providing? Is there wisdom, as Council Page 12 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 Member Villegas was talking about, about having some kind of fare, right? Having a little bit of skin in the game. Paying your fare share,you know, a dollar is very reasonable, or you could have free kupuna passes, or free-kid passes; or if you're going to work, free work passes, right? There are ways around the socioeconomic barriers I think that I'd like for us to explore because I want people to feel like,it's safe to ride the Hele-On, and that it is going to be positive and reliable experience. Nothing for you to comment on right now. Just`thing§that, you know, community members have brought up about not trusting the resource. And it kind of devastates me, because the bus is one way where folks are able to access jobs, recreation, education, and health care. It's a very critical function. Since we're investing so much of,our budget into it, I'd like to see more people there. And so, strategies around how we can attract more riders, I think, is at the top of your list, okay. I'm going to be in support of this. And I'd love for there to be a little bit more conversation at Council about what you guys are thinking in terms of a sustainability plan. It can be very high-level. But just so that we know you folks are thinking about it, that would be really great to add to the discussion. Thank you both for being here. I yield. CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you for those comments, Council Member Rierkiewicz. Appreciate that sentiment and request. Council Member Inaba, please. MR. INABA Real briefly: Just following up on Council Member Kierkiewicz's paints, I think,you know,we're presented here with information on what we would need to start charging fares. And to that point, I mean, at some point unless the funds keep coming in, we're going to. So, I'm wondering if you folks are trying to be proactive or if you're going to try and wait to see and wait out this next three years before we make that investment in those updates for equipment. MR. BERGUM: So,you're talking just the fare boxes being installed in the buses,particularly? MR. INABA: Yes, and the cameras. Just that updated equipment you folks provided. MR. BERGUM: Okay, thank you. So, we're going to need to upgrade the cameras anyway when it comes to our facility here at the baseyard in Hilo. We're going to be doing that anyway, well within the three-year timeframe. Just to bring that on compliance. Page 13 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 With fare boxes, it's a technology-based fare collection system. So, a lot of these will work from like a phone system. You can download an Ap,you know, it's easy for the rider to gain access to the bus. They would load money and their funds onto their account essentially and use it. We will always need to probably have some type of cash collection because a lot of people sometimes do want to use cash; but also, the technology-based and having those options will be key as well. So, that's one thing that we're going to be looking at when it comes to fare boxes, is getting something,you know, up-to-date. And it's going tobe fitting for our community. MR. INABA: So, my question is, now are folks planning to wait on that, because if this bill passes, we're not going to be collecting fares for three years„ And that's not an argument, but something you presented today saying that it's going to cost$1 million to do. So, I don't want to come-well, I won't even be here maybe at that time. But some of the Council Members at that time are going to have to hear the same thing perhaps. So, are we;going Ito try to be proactive in the time between now and 2028; and try to put investments towards that periodically, or are we just waiting? MR, BERGUM:, Right. There would definitely be a plan going forward, so, you meet the December 2028 timeframe, that deadline. There would definitely be something well before that. So, we'll be,you know, working with Robert's Hawaii,putting them in their buses, as well as County of Hawaii buses. So,yes, working towards that for 'sure, staying ahead of that. Mk. INABA: Alright. And then, sorry, one last quick question. Regarding - I just had to give a ride to someone who normally catches the but, the other day, and is there a map or a location just for the public's use to see where the bus actually is'versus the scheduled time. MR. BERGUM: So, that's something that we're looking at improving. And that's what I was talking about the GTFS (General Transit Feed Specification) and GIS (Geographic Information System), is bringing that online to better that. So,right now no, I mean, they can't find it in real time where all of the buses are in circulation at that moment. But that's one thing, that part of the overall route modifications, this is part of that plan moving forward. MR. INABA: Alright. Thank you. Page 14 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Over to Council Member Kimball, please. MS. KIMBALL: I won't take too long because I think Council Member Kierkiewicz articulate pretty much everything that I'm thinking as well. I don't envy the position you're in and this quagmire that you're trying to solve. You know we have a very big island; lower income tax base. But I just want to take this opportunity to express my general concern for our fiscal outlook over the next couple of years, whether it is escalating costs due to tariffs and inflation, or it's reduction in money being passed through from the State and Federal government. And I do think this is one of the areas where we do really need to look at cutting costs. I mean if we do the simple ROI(Return on Investment), it doesn't look—it's not a positive picture right now. And that's no fault of yours, I think it's a super challenging situation. I do think we need to go to a limited fare model. And as suggested, you know, free pass for kupuna; free pass for keiki; discounted fares for lower moderate income; monthly passes. , I do think there's a different sentiment that comes with, you know,paying a little bit for something. It doesn't have to be a lot. This doesn't have to be the main revenue generator. But I do think that getting started now on thinking about what that's going to take to implement. And then again, as you've already stated that you're doing, looking at the ridership; looking at the ridership; looking at the different multimodal models that we might employ. You know, as we go over the next couple of years here, I think this is one of the areas where we're going to have to look at cutting back some of the funding. I will also mention that HSAC (Hawai`i Association of Counties) again is trying to put forward legislation to extend that GE (General Excise) because it has been so vital for our Mass Transit. But I think it behooves us right now to be thinking about having less income into that,you're particular divisions. That's all, thank you. CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Onishi, further thoughts? MR. ONISHL Thank you, Chair. Have you guys ever thought of having like a donation box in the buses? You know why I say that is because I used to work for the elderly when they used to get transported by, I guess, private entities. They were asked or they were kind of like, so called responsible to donate for the ride, a dollar, two dollars, whatever they could afford. But it was like pressure on them that they had to donate. Then, they used to tell me, but we have free bussing island-wide, and they don't have to do it. So, how come we have to, right? Page 15 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 So, I always questioned that when I was on the Council to Mass Transit. Is that, how can Mass Transit help fund, like HCEOC (Hawai`i County Economic Opportunity) or even like CSC, Coordinated Services. They go and they pick up the ridership's, right? Take them grocery shopping; take them to the doctors; doing their errands. And they also donate towards CSC to the drivers. But with this Mass Transit, with this bussing, they're not required, or they're not even asked. So, there's an imbalance of this whole thing, where we're supposed to be taking care—like it was mentioned, our youths and our seniors, right? That's what we've got to be focusing'oh. Because they're the ones that are on fixed incomes. So, you folks have to start looking into that. MS. FUJIL I just want to mention that we do have a contract with HCEOC. So, we do support them also. MR. ONISHL But then the thing is--Well then;they shouldn't be, I guess, or you know, it's been practiced from before, so they continue to donate, right? Where someone should tell them,you don't have to now,because the County is helping subsidize the transportation, right? So, it's something you've got to look at. Also, when we had the Nratrahsit7 that was during�our time. I mentioned to the Administrator at the time, "Why'weren,'t you folks contracting Coordinated Services to provide more services to our seniors, our kupunas?" Nothing happened,,right? Soy we should use our resources 'within our County to provide those services. Because during the CoordinatedServices, they usually go from the morning to about lunchtime, I o'clock, right? They do their transportation. But after that, it's kind of.open. And that's where you folks could go and contract and utilized the money better in one way. So,just a comment on that, that you folks can maybe look into. The other one is about bus shelters. I know about a couple months ago, I was asked about there's a study or a plan for bus shelters to be put in . Whatever happened to that plan? Did you folks already decide on specific areas where these bus shelters are going to be. Mtn. BERGUM: So, that's what Kelly was mentioning earlier, is about we're coordinating with Hawaii DOT, and we've already supplied a list of bus shelters and Stop improvements around the island. And you know, that's 20 shelters, but also 40 Stops. But our list is greater than that. So, we're looking at getting Federal funding assistance with just portion of it. But also, the list is quite vast on shelter and Stop improvements everywhere. Page 16 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 So, right now we're working with working with one of our contractors, Bowers and Kubota on assisting us with an RFP (Request for Proposal). That way we can release the RFP with that list of shelter improvements, and then we can start that process. MR. ONISHL So, the answer is, you folks are still in the process. So, you folks haven't really decided on what sites, and funding is still up in the air. Oh, go ahead. MS. FUJIL No, we have the funding, the funding is there. But the Stops and the shelters, we have a list for it. But they were still working,on the RFP to get it out there for the procurement side of it. MR. ONISHL So, you folks don't really have to go and check with DOT because you guys have the funding. MS. FUJIL We have the funding through HDOT,yes, correct. With terms of ground disturbance and where the bus stops and bus shelters are, if that's the question. For that one, due to it having some grant funding in it, the list is still being worked on for State Roadways. MR. ONISHL How long would that take on County roads? MS. FUJII: County, a little bit easier to work with. MR. ONISHL Sc, when is that going to happen? MS. FUJII. Well, I'm not sure on the procurement side of it right now. I think we're still working on'the RFP,for it to put it out to bid. MR. ©NISHL With the engineer? MS. FUJII: I'm not exactly sure. MR. BERGUM: I wish I had a timeline and set schedule on every single Stop and shelter improvement, because there's a lot of them. But they're all going to require their own timeframes. Because you know, if you look at one that already has an ADA pad; say some bystander drove and cleaned it out, that one is going to be easier to do because it already has an ADA pad, and it's already meeting the ADA. So, we just need a shelter to be placed there. So, that would bean easier one. That one will have a shorter timeframe. It's the ones where, you know, specifically, like on State roadways. We're talking Papa`ikou, Pepe`ekeo; it has a small pull-off on the right-hand side. Not a lot of room. It's going to require a lot of ground disturbance. So, all I'm saying Page 17 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 is a lot of these are going to be on their own timelines. We're in the process of doing it. I don't have a timeline to give you today. But we're working toward it. MR. ONISHL I know. Well, the thing is, I look at you pick the low-hanging fruits. The ones that can get done right away get done, right? The public can see that Mass Transit is moving forward and improving the ridership; improving the comfort for our riders, right, to have. Like for example, on Kilauea by Kahaopea Street,there's a pad that was put in with no shelter. And that already I think has been over a year. So,people have this cement slab. There's no shelter and theyhave to wait there, right? I mean, something to move things forward. Like we're always hearing, it's in a study, this and that, right? Then, like Ms. Kierkiewicz mentioned, in the past, we had Eagle Scouts. For their Eagle Scouts project they were building. And my nephew did one by Puhi Bay, right? So, that's the other options that you folks can look at, too. Okay, I yield. CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Aright, Administrator and Kelly Ann, thank you for the presentation. Thank you for preparing this information to have this robust discussion about a lot of things about Mass Transit. So, I want to thank you for preparing this ahead of time. Also, for allowing us a chance to look under the hood; t mean no pun intended. But really just to see theplans with the grants. T really,just had a couple of questions. On the grants specifically, we have no threats that those are lapsing, correct? There's no sort of time-limit on those, even if we're having challenges with procurements, is that accurate? MS:'FUJIL Yes,that is correct. CHR IIUSTACE: Okay, that's good to know. In regards to, and there were definitely some questions about—you've heard it, kind of looking ahead for the next few years, this bill allows you some leeway in terms of preparing for some eventuality,'right, about whether it's implementing a Federal program or whatnot. There were definitely those concerns or questions about, let's provide that timeline and kind of a path as we implement new systems, right? And some of that is definitely related to the equipment that's required of that. And I guess, specifically, how long would you estimate to take to install this type of equipment. Because if this did not go through, I don't think we have the three months to install on our County buses, and we have the Robert's buses, correct? MR. BERGUM: We'd be tight, three to four months, right around there. Page 18 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 CHR. HUSTACE: Okay. So, three to four months is probably something we need to have within that window, and really understanding that we need to install this on our fleet. Okay, got it. Then, this is in regard to the security services. When did we start implementing security services a part of Mass Transit Agency? Was that part and parcel with the fare free? Did it come before, after? MS. FUJIL I want to say it was before we went fare'free, but I'm not 100 percent sure. MR. BERGUM: That's a little bit before Kelly and my time. I can work on getting you a better timeline. CHR. HUSTACE: Just curious how that kind of laid into our accounting for Mass Transit. And one that became,a thing that we needed to take onprotect riders, to protect drivers, and you know, be mindful of those spaces and community. Administrator, I respecty6ur insight into, that you know, we still might need security services going forward. And some of the Council Members are kind of on the same page about providing a safer environment for all those that use the Mass Transit. In regard to the donation piece. That might be a question that you might talk to the Administrator,about, because there might be some challenges there. Otherwise, might put a donation box outside the Council Chambers. So, I think that's definitely a legal thing, and that's an interesting idea, you know, cermpensatiowor any costs going towards Mass Transit. But we'd definitely have some legal issues there. Any other thoughts or discussion before the vote? Okay, thank you for the robust deliberation on this, and Administrator, really appreciate the time we talked about Mass Transit. We don't see you all the time. So, definitely a lot of questions regarding different pieces of your agency. So, thank you for the opportunity to engage,with us today. Mr. Clerk, if we could, actually, could we do a roll call vote on Bill 75, that would be fantastic. Thank you. Page 19 PCPWMT-4 September 2, 2025 Vote on Bill 75: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 75 on first reading (Approved) was carried by the following roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Hustace—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.- 1. Excused: None. CHR. HUSTACE: Fantastic, thank you, Mr. Clerk. With that being the last item on our agenda, we adjourned at 12:10 p.m., and our next committee will start shortly. Thank you. ADJOURN- There being no further business, Chair Hustace adjourned the meeting MENT: at 12:10 p.m. Approved: Mr. James E. Hustace, Chair (Date) Policy Committee on Public Works, and Mass Transit JEH/dt Page 20