HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2025/09/16 (2024-2026)Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
181 Session
West Hawaii Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
September 16, 2025
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and
ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 1:00 p.m., in the Council Chambers,
Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Mr. James E. Hustace, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member (via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member (via videoconference from Hilo)
Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi, Member (via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
Absent & Excused: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called
by the Chair:
Palani Greenwell: Bill 64, Draft 2 (Comm. 334.18), in opposition.
Nancy Burns: Bill 64, Draft 2 (Comm. 334.18), in opposition.
CHR. KAGAVADA: Thank you to our testifiers. Mr. Clerk, may we please start
with reading in Communication 40.2.
GOEAC-19 September 16, 2025
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 40.2: HAWAI`I STATE ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES' MAY 30 AND AUGUST 1,
2025, EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated September 8, 2025.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Kimball moved to close file on Comm. 40.2.
Seconded by Mr. Hustace.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Any discussion? Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: No, just submitting per our requirements.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Yes, go ahead, Council Member Onishi, proceed.
MR. ONISHI: Thank you, Madame Chair. I just had a question for Ms. Kimball.
So, I heard this past week or last week, that I guess, some pre -Leg (Legislative)
proposal was sent to certain House Representatives.
MS. KIMBALL: Are you referring to the letter to Speaker (Nadine) Nakamura?
MR. ONISHI: No, it wasn't to her. It was to another House Rep. It was like a
County proposal.
MS. KIMBALL: There was nothing. There was a letter sent to a House Rep.
(Representative), but that's it.
MR. ONISHI: Okay, thank you.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you very much. Anybody else? Council Member
Hustace.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Okay, not seeing any further lights, all those in favor on
closing file on Communication 40.2, please say "aye." Any opposed?
Vote on Comm. 40.2: The motion to close file on Comm. 40.2 was carried
Filed by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kagiwada — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 1.
Excused: None.
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GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025
CHR. KAGIWADA: Can we please read in Communication 488.
Comm. 488: NOMINATION OF STEVE A. MORIFUJI TO THE LIQUOR COMMISSION
From Mayor C. Kimo Alameda, dated August 28, 2025, requesting the Council's
review and confirmation.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: October 11, 2025 (Section 13-4(k),
Hawaii County Charter)
(Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor Erin Samura
and the nominee came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
Vote on Comm. 488: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend confirmation of the nomination
(Approved) of Mr. Steve A. Morifuji to the Liquor Commission. Seconded by
Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kagiwada — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
Ms. Samum provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and
experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Communication 489, please.
Comm. 489: NOMINATION OF GUY S. ALAMEDA TO THE WATER BOARD
From Mayor C. Kimo Alameda, dated August 28, 2025, requesting the Council's
review and confirmation.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: October 11, 2025 (Section 13-4(k),
Hawaii County Charter)
(Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor Erin Samura
and the nominee came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
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GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025
Vote on Comm. 489: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend confirmation of the nomination
(Approved) of Mr. Guy S. Alameda to the Water Board. Seconded by
Ms. Villegas and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Merkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kagiwada — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 1.
Excused: None.
Ms. Samura provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and
experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Can we go to Resolution 303-25, please.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
Res. 303-25: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL
AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE OF HAWAI`I, THE COUNTY OF KAUA`I,
THE COUNTY OF MAUI, AND THE CITY AND COUNTY OF HONOLULU
FOR THE STATEWIDE MULTI -JURISDICTIONAL DRUG TASK FORCE
Authorizes the Hawaii Police Department to enter into a Memorandum of
Understanding (MOU) to interdict drugs via apprehension and arrest of individuals
smuggling and distributing illicit narcotics into the State.
Reference: Comm.483
Intr. by: Council Member Kagiwada (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend adoption of Res. 303-25.
Seconded by Mr. Hustace.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. We have a member from HPD (Hawai`i Police
Department) here. Would you please introduce yourself, and maybe tell us a little
bit about this resolution.
(Note: At this time, HPD Captain Ed Buyten came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. BUYTEN: Sure absolutely, Captain Ed Buyten. I command the Vice
Division for the Hawaii Police Department. This MOU is a very important one
for the people of Hawaii because this is County agencies working together to
share intelligence and stop drug trafficking organizations from bringing
dangerous drugs into our community.
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September 16, 2025
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Members, does anybody have any
questions for the Captain or comments you want to share with the Committee?
Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Thank you, Captain Buyten for being here. We
had a moment to talk before this Committee began, and you shared some really
powerful data on the amount of narcotics that your team has successfully been
able to remove from our streets. Especially, in compared to other counties and the
State as a whole.
Having just seen what looked like might have been something related to a bust on
the side of the road on the way here this morning, I hoped you might be able to
just share any details that are available for us to know, and for the public about
the good work that you and your team are doing.
MR. BUYTEN: Absolutely, it would be my privilege. So currently, Hawaii
County Police Department is responsible for 70 percent of the narcotics recovered
in the State of Hawaii. That's federal and local coming right out of this island.
Right now, meth is currently our biggest issue; I want to say that our division is
responsible from February. Because if you don't know, from February 2025, we
unified the two Vice sections into one division with oversight and leadership by
Chief Mahuna. And since that time, we're up to about 70 pounds of
methamphetamine recovered. That's give or take, because we're always
crunching the numbers.
Cocaine would be a close second to fentanyl. And those numbers don't
necessarily come from us, they come from HIDTA (Hawai`i High Intensity Drug
Trafficking), which calculates a lot of data for the State of Hawaii. So we're
proud of it, and we're trying to continuously attack it for the people of Hawaii.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Captain Buyten. And I thought it was also an
interesting framework to look at it. Because some might say, "Oh my gosh,
there's so many pounds of drugs going into the Big Island." And I would
challenge anyone that would make that assumption to instead recognize there are
pounds of illegal drugs coming into all the islands.
But our Vice Team has been able to intercept and remove 70 pounds just in the
last six to eight months, from the streets. So, thank you again for that. I'm deeply
grateful that this is a MOU. I'm deeply grateful that this is a MOU that doesn't
give me heartburn, but instead gives me relief. So, thank you, Captain Buyten,
appreciate you and your team.
MR. BUYTEN: You're welcome. It's our privilege to serve you folks.
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September 16, 2025
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Thank you, Captain.
Anybody else have any questions or comment on this resolution? Oh, sorry,
Council Member Galimba, go ahead.
MS. GALIIyIBA: Thanks. Just a really minor question, which might be a Cody
Frenz question, but perhaps you can answer it. I just see that this was last signed
in 2019, the example. Is it like every five years or a certain timeframe where this
particular MOU needs to be reaffirmed, or is it just sort of based on changes or
anything like that?
MR. BUYTEN: I definitely can't compare my education to Cody Frenz. So, I
would refer that question to her.
(Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Dakota "Cody" Frenz
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. FRENZ: Good afternoon, Deputy Corporation Counsel (DCC) Cody Frenz
on behalf of the Police Department. So, for this particular MOU, it's been
updated as we discussed on a variety of other intergovernmental resolutions that
have come before this body.
So, for Captain Buyten's purpose, in light of his role as a Captain for the Vice
Division, we're updating the paperwork. So, this one will be updated. Granted, if
you look at it, it requires the other jurisdictions within the State of Hawaii to also
sign. So, I presume they'll be doing a similar process. So, we can get one unified
corrected updated document.
MS. GALIMBA: Thanks. Is that with the idea that it's supposed to happen
annually, or is it another kind of sequence?
MS. FRENZ: Sony, I should have clarified that. Unless the MOU or the MOA
(Memorandum of Agreement) specifically calls for a termination provision,
generally, most of them indicate that they can be terminated with X-number of
days of notice.
So, these MOUs as a practice are usually uninterrupted, and they just continue to
be in effect unless they're updated by one or more of the parties, usually like a
point of contact maybe updating additional provisions, additional cooperation
language. But in this case, it would be once a new one is executed that it would
just remain in effect until another update was required by any party.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you so much.
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GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025
CHR. KAGIWADA: Alright. Anybody else? Alright with that, let's please take
a vote. All those in favor of approving Resolution 303-25, please say "aye." Any
opposed?
Vote on Res. 303-25: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 303-25
(Approved) was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kagiwada — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder —1.
Excused: None.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Can we go to Resolution 304-25 please.
Res. 304-25: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL
AGREEMENT WITH THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS
AFFAIRS, PACIFIC ISLAND HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, FOR
INTERAGENCY PUBLIC SAFETY COORDINATION
Authorizes the Hawaii Police Department to enter into a Memorandum of
Understanding to coordinate responsibilities concerning law enforcement,
emergency response, mutual aid, physical security, requests for assistance, and
other public safety activities for community -based outpatient clinics located in
Hilo and Kailua-Kona.
Reference: Comm.484
hitr. by: Council Member Kagiwada (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend adoption of Res. 304-25.
Seconded by Mr. Hustace.
CHR. KAGIWADA: I think we have Major (Jeremie) Evangelista over there
along with DCC Frenz. Major, would you like to brief us a little bit on this
MOU?
(Note: At this time, HPD Major Jeremie Evangelista came forward
to address the members of the Committee)
MR. EVANGELISTA: Hi, good afternoon, everybody. Major Jeremie
Evangelista, Hawaii Police Department. This MOU would be between the
Hawaii Police Department and the Veterans Affairs. Veterans Affairs maintains
two clinics on Hawaii Island; one in Kona, one in Hilo.
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GOFAC-18 September 16, 2025
They do offer Police services on their federal properties only. So, they would
need assistance from local law enforcement to investigate any non-federal
violation or assist in an investigation that spills over off of federal property. So,
that would be the purpose of this MOU.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much, Major. Any questions or comments
from the Committee Members? Sorry, I can't see there over there in Hilo.
Anybody, just speak up if you want to say anything. Okay, hearing and seeing
none, let's go ahead and —thank you very much, Major for bringing this forward.
All those in favor of approving Resolution 304-25, please say "aye." Any
opposed?
Vote on Res. 304-25: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 304-25
(Approved) was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kagiwada — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder-1.
Excused: None.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Can you please read in Resolution 305-25.
Res. 305-25: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL
AGREEMENT WITH THE HONOLULU POLICE DEPARTMENT,
SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION SECTION, FOR INTERAGENCY PUBLIC
SAFETY COORDINATION
Authorizes the Hawaii Police Department to enter into a Memorandum of
Understanding for use of the Honolulu Police Department's full -service forensic
testing laboratory.
Reference: Comm.485
Intr. by: Council Member Kagiwada (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend adoption of Res. 305-25.
Seconded by Mr. Hustace.
CHR. KAGIWADA: I believe we have somebody over there from HPD. Please
introduce yourself and explain this resolution, thank you.
(Note: At this time, HPD Captain Rio Amon -Wilkins came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
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CK91iWAONM.
September 16, 2025
MR. AMON-WILKINS: Good afternoon, Captain Rio Amon -Wilkins with the
Criminal Investigation Division in Hilo, also a proud graduate of Honoka`a High
School. So this MOU is between our department and the Scientific Investigation
Section of the Honolulu Police Department, who does a large amount of lab work
for us. Our lab here in our department primarily does drug testing.
So, a lot of other types of evidence that we need analyzed, we'd either have to send
it to Honolulu PD (Police Department) or to a mainland lab, which comes at a high
cost if it has to go to the mainland. Honolulu PD has been doing a lot of lab work
for us for many years. I was actually there visiting the lab about six months ago;
met with the Lab Director.
So the process now is, when we need lab work done, the assigned detective would
draft the Chief a letter, and it would go up the chain in our department, basically
explaining what the investigation is and the lab work that we need. And then, we'll
send that letter to Honolulu PD for their Chief to approve, and then go down the
chain there.
So, when I was meeting with the Lab Director several months ago, she told me that
we could enter into a MOU, which would just streamline the request process for us.
So, as far as what Honolulu PD will be doing for us, doesn't change at all. It just
streamlines our request process.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you very much, Captain, for laying that out for us.
Council Members, anybody have any questions or comments on this. Go ahead,
Council Member Onishi.
MR. ONISHI: Thank you, Madame Chair. Yeah, I heard about that. It's tough on
the timeline, right? Because there's cases where you folks have been waiting or the
Prosecutors have been waiting for the test results and so forth. So, is there any
discussion within the department or are you folks like creating or trying to come up
with a section for having that lab testing to be done here?
MR. AMON-WILKINS: I would absolutely love for that to happen. I just think
realistically with the amount of funding that would cost, I mean, I don't realistically
see that happening anytime soon. We've had a hard enough time trying to get
Crime Lab personnel as it is for the three positions that we have
in-house, so. I mean, if we could get State of the Art lab here and do all this work
here, it would be a blessing. But just realistically, I don't see that any time soon.
MR. ONISHI: Well, upcoming there's the budget 2026-2027. Maybe you folks
should be working with everyone and with the Administration to see if you guys
can put something in there, and then having us support you folks on that, right?
Because like you said, it costs money to send it to the mainland; it costs money for
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GOEAC-18 4 September 16, 2025
Honolulu, right? And so, we could be saving some of that money if we start
investing now.
MR. AMON-WILKINS: Actually, Honolulu PD does not charge us for it. So, if
they're not able to do it for some reason. Certain things they cannot do, so that
we'll send to a private lab on the mainland, and that does come at a cost. But as far
as Honolulu doing it for us, there's no cost, because they are the State Crime Lab.
MR. ONISHI: Okay. And I guess when it comes in like certain things, so it's like
just first come, first serve, or they take care of Honolulu first; Oahu first or
whatever?
MR. AMON-WILKINS: So, the way it will be is it goes into a que; it goes in order
of case priority. But they will handle our request as a rush request, the same way
that they would do for their own agency. So, it's been an excellent relationship. I
believe they have 17 criminalists, and all those positions are full for the first time
since before COVID (Coronavirus Disease). So, the turnaround time has greatly
improved.
MR. ONISHI: Oh, that's good. Okay, great, thanks. I yield. Thank you.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else over there in Hilo? No, okay.
Anybody here? Alright, seeing no lights on, thank you very much Captain for
sharing that information with us. With that, all those in favor of approving
Resolution 305-25 and sending to the full Council, please say "aye." Any opposed?
Vote on Res. 305-25: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 305-25
(Approved) was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kagiwada — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Can we go to our final item for this agenda?
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
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STATEMENTS
FROM THE
PUBLIC ON
BILL 64:
Draft 2
September 16, 2025
The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called
by the Chair:
Curtis Beck:
In opposition.
Bill 64: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE VI, CHAPTER 2,
(Draft 2) SECTION 6-2.2, OF THE CHARTER OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAPI
(2024 EDITION)RELATING TO THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS
Replaces the requirement that the Director of Public Works must be a registered
professional engineer (PE) with the requirement that the Director have a
bachelor's degree in engineering, architecture, business, public administration
or a related discipline, or be a licensed attorney. Adds the requirement that at
least two of the five years of required administrative or managerial experience
must be in public works or construction, or a related field. Requires the Deputy
Director be a registered professional engineer and have authority over engineering
responsibilities when the Director lacks such certification.
Reference: Comm.334.18
Intr. by: Council Member Inaba
Recommitted: August 6, 2025
Postponed: September 2, 2025
(Note: There is a motion by Council Member Inaba, seconded by Council
Member Villegas, to recommend passage of Bill 64, as amended, on first
reading.)
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Clerk Henricks. Council Member Inaba, the
floor is yours.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Chair. Yes, we postponed this bill at our last meeting
in Hilo, and it gave me the opportunity to meet with some of our Professional
Engineers here in Hawaii County. Unfortunately, there was no additional
proposed language that was prepared or presented by the group. I offered
additional time last week. In the end, the group basically summarized that they
would just be in opposition of the bill and that there was no clear language to be
provided. So, we are where we left off, actually, last time with the amendments.
You know, there's been a lot of discussion and testimony as to public safety. We
looked across other counties here in Hawaii; Maui County, and Kauai County
both having removed that requirement for professional engineer to be —that
requirement for the Department Director.
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September 16, 2025
I think in an attempt to try and address some of those concerns, we put in that the
Deputy would need to have that licensure. I think we are where we are at this
point. I don't think it's a short-sighted bill; I think it's just a visionary attempt to
try and make sure that we have the best qualified folks leading the department.
We still have a Deputy who would have those qualifications, and we still have all
of our chiefs who oversee certain divisions with engineering requirements, still
having the professional engineer licensure. So, I think we talked through this in
detail already. I'll leave it at that, unless anyone has questions. Thank you.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Other Council Members?
Council Member Onishi.
MR. ONISHI: Thank you. After the last meeting, I thought about it. And when I
saw the article in the newspaper, it kind of made me think again. Because I think
I mentioned on record about how during my time in the County, I never seen this
happen. But then I had to retract that and say that when I was on the Council, it
was the Department of Environmental Management (DEM) that we appointed an
attorney who was questioned about experience. So, part of the argument about
how that person was qualified was because they worked at Corporation Counsel
and was under DEM. So, that had that qualification to become the director.
So then I thought about now, like DEM. Everybody's talking about Public
Works, but nobody talks about Environmental Management because to me,
Environmental Management is just as important as Public Works. And so, we do
have Division Chiefs at Wastewater and also Solid Waste that are required
licensed engineers to be qualified for those positions. So, we also do have that
now that is in effect with Public Works; Building and Engineering.
So if we look at that, and we hear the people testify that we need the license in
Public Works, but they don't mention Environmental Management So, that
makes me wonder again, it's like, is Public Works higher in responsibility Public
Health and Safety or to me, Environmental Management is just the same because
we're talking about pollution, we're talking about a cleaner environment.
So unless things can change, I will support this bill. But what I'm going to be
doing, as Chair Inaba had mentioned that nobody had put in anything for
amending this. But I will be putting in the next one to remove the requirement for
the Deputy to be licensed. Because it doesn't make sense that if the Director is
going to be unlicensed, then to me the Deputy Director shouldn't be required to
be licensed because this to me is like going backwards.
So, I'll be doing that and also, I'll be putting in for removal of the timeline that
the Administration has to appoint that Director. So, I just wanted to make that
comment and I yield. Thank you, Chair.
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September 16, 2025
CHR. KAGIWADA: Alright. Anybody else over there in Hilo? Council
Member Hustace, please go ahead.
MR. HUSTACE: I'm not sure, Chair, if there's anyone in Hilo from Public
Works? Just had a question on operations.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Acting Director Azevedo is here.
MR. HUSTACE: Acting Director, I just had a question on operations, if you
don't mind.
(Note: At this time, Acting Director of Public Works Neil Azevedo
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. AZEVEDO: Neil Azevedo, Acting Director of Public Works.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Acting Director, appreciate your time this
afternoon. Just through some of my own inquiries in trying to understand the
process that you perform within Public Works.
Your Division Chiefs, the particular ones that are required to have a PE license;
have that license, they stamp and approve the plans accordingly. But there's no
paperwork or anything that says that you've been that sort of secondary approval
on top of theirs, correct?
MR. AZEVEDO: The only place I sign is within routing when they need to go to
Corporation Counsel and stuff. And we've got 13 engineers in Public Works
right now. We've got a structural engineer there too. So, we've got enough
engineers within the department to okay everything. Thank you.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Acting Director. So, it's really just in those
contracts, when those are going out, then that's the Director's approval of those
plans that have been stamped by your engineers?
MR. AZEVEDO: So, we've got a whole bunch —actually, a lot of our jobs right
now is all consultants. We have pretty close to 90 percent of our jobs, we put out
all consultants. And the 10 percent in house, whichever is the 10 percent, the
engineers are signing it. You know, whenever we get the plans, we receive the
plans, we sit down with the engineers, we talk story about how they feel about
this.
You know, making sure they feel good, making sure we do everything we need
for public safety. That's our main concern out there. And so far, everything
looks good.
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September 16, 2025
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Acting Director. So, what I'm seeing here is that
the Director is setting these priorities, and his or her division chiefs are the ones
that are approving the plans that are going through the department. So, I'm still
trying to make this connection between these requirements that the Director has
that would then either be that secondary approval for these chiefs.
That's where I'm trying to make this contact a little bit in connection. I've not
quite seen it. I'm trying to see if there's any sort of operational layers that would
be this approval, other than face-to-face meetings with the chiefs. Face-to-face
meetings about, these are projects we need to move forward. But I've not
necessarily seen that there's this additional layer of paperwork that says, yes, I've
put my eyes on this, I approve this from a Public Safety sort of thing. So, I'm still
struggling a little bit to see that connection. So, if any other Council Member can
help me with that, I'd appreciate that.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, first off, I want to thank the testifiers for being here.
Ms. Bums, your reputation precedes you. For many of my mentors and
predecessors working within County service, you have a reputation of
exemplary work. And also, Mr. Greenwell, being fresher on the scene, thank
you also for being here and testifying.
This one has been a really tough one, because I understand the push -back from
the professional engineering industry and experts. And yet, as Council Member
Hustace is asking questions, we're looking at the specific logistics of what
happens within this department.
I appreciated the example of having a hospital where your head surgeon doesn't
have a medical degree. But then, within a hospital you have a head
Administrator, and that person isn't necessarily a doctor, but they run the
administration side of things. So, I see the passionate pleas on both sides.
I also want to clear up any statements that were made that any changes that are
made here, that this is for a Charter amendment, correct? And so, this then, has
to come to the public to vote upon. So whether or not this goes forward or not,
it then goes the public to make that decision, which is also helpful. This isn't
related specifically to what's going on in this Administration, this is related in
my seven years of service and served under three different Administrations, and
there have been serious challenges for finding somebody with that professional
licensure.
I'm not sure if you guys have read the most recent draft which provides, "The
director shall have had a minimum of five years of experience in administrative
or managerial capacity."
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September 16, 2025
Our prior DPW director that was approved under our prior Administration had
never managed another human; he had his professional licensure for one year.
So that, according to the prior standard, made it possible for him to be
nominated and once affirmed wasn't there for six months because of the lack of
actual managerial.
Then it also includes now, two years of which shall have been in Public Works,
construction, or a related field. The Director shall also have a bachelor's degree
from an accredited institution in the United States of America in engineering,
architectural, business, public administration or a related discipline, or be an
attorney licensed to practice and in good standing before the Supreme Court of
the State of Hawaii.
So, we're navigating this challenge for filling positions, in general and within
County. I would be remis if I didn't say, so many professional licensed
engineers have come forth demanding that this remain a requirement, but none
of them have applied for the job because it doesn't pay enough. Exactly, but
that doesn't change the position we're in at this point and have been. So, we'll
continue to work on it.
I suppose I have yet to hear, it sounds like there are a lot of stop -gaps within the
department that the Director isn't the final signoff. Okay, well unfortunately,
that hasn't been the exact potential for that kind of risk has not been
communicated with enough detail other than broad statements and claims,
which is my conundrum here. This is my real challenge. Okay, with that I'll
yield.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else over in Hilo? Council
Member Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. So, the Department of Public Works is
currently running, it's operating. Hugh Ono stepped down as Director in
March; he was a licensed engineer. And wouldn't you believe it; the
Department of Public Works is still functioning. And in fact, I've been hearing
more positive reviews than I've ever heard, ever. And the individual that's
leading the department right now, right before us, Neil Azevedo, doesn't have a
license.
It's shocking to me that we're here kind of debating whether or not the head or
Deputy should have a license, because by some miracle, things are moving
along. Permits are being issued faster, I'm seeing more guys out paving roads.
You dusted off plans that some of your engineers did for traffic mitigation
issues in my community years ago. You found them and you said, "Ash, we're
going to get this done now."
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September 16, 2025
The Director needs to be somebody that is going to hold people accountable,
that is going to motivate people to get the job done. Because it's a privilege to
be serving the people of Hawaii County.
I wrote down a couple of words here that one of the testifiers shared earlier,
"Dangerous and costly." I want to bring up Kalaniana'ole Avenue. Acting
Director is smiling right now, right? We had all kinds of professionally licensed
engineers on top of that project that left the community of Keaukaha in quite a
predicament, because there was a partial closure of Kalaniana'ole Avenue for
five years in a tsunami inundation zone.
Just because you're a professional engineer doesn't mean you're going to get it
right. That was a dangerous and a costly situation. I have also experienced the
same thing with projects in my district related to eruption recovery road
restoration projects. They were professional licensed engineers on the job, but
still things and obstacles arise.
I think it's because someone like Mr. Azevedo holding people's feet to the fire,
accountable, let's get it done. Let's get it done according to the budget we
articulated and the timeline we said we would do it on. I think that's really
important, and that's what I'm looking for in terns of a leader for the
department.
I fully support Council Member Onishi's suggestion to remove letter (b);
removing the requirement of having a Deputy having an engineering license. It
doesn't make sense to me, but I feel comfortable with you leading our
department right now as Acting Director, Director Azevedo. And we can't
continue to solve problems with the same sort of solutions, right?
This idea stemmed years ago from then Council Chair, Aaron Chung. And it's
been a few terms that we've been debating about the qualifications of Public
Works Directors, because I think in his first set of terms as a Council Member
and his second, he saw with each Mayoral Administration, just the difficulty of
finding people with not just that engineering license qualification, but the
willingness to kind of step forward. And this helps to open up the slate of
candidates that can serve in that position.
So, I'm going to be for moving this along. It still needs to go to the voters
before it's formally adopted, but I'm for having more options for us to entertain.
Thanks Director for being here. I yield, Chair.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Council
Member Kimball.
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September 16, 2025
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. I'll start with kind of a response to Council
Member Kierkiewicz's comments. You know, a situation like Kalaniana'ole or
others that happened over the years too, to say that it because there was a PE on
the project that it went overtime or overbudget, I think is flawed -thinking in
terms of the many different ways public projects can end up overbudget or
taking more time.
I think it's important to consider, with respect to the licensure for professional
engineers, that taking into account budget and timeframe is part of their
obligation. And the flipside of it is how much more would projects would have
cost us, how much longer would projects have taken, how many potential lives
could have been lost because there wasn't a professional engineer reviewing a
Public Works project.
The Administrative position, as Director, I've said before previously with respect
to this bill, I don't have any issue with that person being more of an Administrator
not having that PE (Professional Engineer) license. My main concern has been
that, that Administrator should not have the ability to override an engineering
decision made by an engineer in the department without a PE qualification.
So, I think that's a little bit about what Council Member Hustace was speaking
to about whether or not there were any protocols specifically in place that
allowed for that or disallowed for that. And that's my concern with this
amendment, is that it has to be clear that even though the buck stops with
whoever the Director is at DPW, if there's an engineering decision made by an
engineer, that has to be upheld when it's for public health and safety. Because
there are examples of decisions that were made when an engineer's
recommendation wasn't taken, and it ended up being costly or creating damage
or even endangering folks.
So to use Council Member Villegas' example, where you know, in a hospital
there are doctors, and there's a Hospital Administrator. If your doctor says, I
recommend 'Y' treatment for you, you wouldn't want that Hospital
Administrator to come down and say, well, I'm going to say you can't have that
or don't do that because the Hospital Administrator isn't a medical professional.
So, it's the same scenario here. We want engineers to have full authority to
make engineering decisions without being overridden by the Director. And that,
I think just needs to be either clear within the proposal of the bill or followed up
within Code.
So, if you look at the responsibilities in Chapter 5 for the Director or their
designee, there are activities in there that really should have engineering
oversight. Similarly, the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) specifically
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September 16, 2025
enumerates things that need to have a PE overseeing those activities. So, I still
think that there's opportunity to get this to where it needs to be.
I mentioned last time, one of my concerns was if you had the Director and the
Deputy; the Deputy with the PE, that they would come in together or at least in
short order, is one of my concerns. But I will go back to if you can find the
deputy with the PE then you should be able to have that person be the Director,
and then the Deputy can be the Administrator. I mean, that's been the set up
before, is that the Director is a PE, and the administrative functions; the day-to-
day operations, prioritizations, that actual skillset falls to the deputy. That's
another model as well.
So, I continue to support, you know, keeping the PE licensure requirement for
the department. And I don't want Mr. Azevedo here to take any offense to that,
but that is my professional and personal position. Thank you.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Kimball. Anybody else
here? Council Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: So, yeah, this is not about particular people. This is about
policy in the long term because this is going to take some time to get through
our process and then going and being on the ballot. So, this really isn't about
current or near -future situations.
So, looking at this in the long-term for me, I feel that we would be better served
as a County to have a director that does have a PE license and to have that
director on the Mayor's immediate team, the cabinet. I think that really makes
for a stronger cabinet team to have that level of expertise and education there
for immediate discussion of projects and direction. So, I do not support
removing the PE requirement. Thanks.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Hustace.
MR. HUSTACE: We keep having this conversation about —I still think we
have opportunity for the consideration of the salary. That still needs to be stated
and that still needs to be resolved. We've also had past conversations about the
longevity of the role. I think sometimes that's a consideration that is being
made in the private sector whether they consider this opportunity, because it is
that at -will position, and so there are challenges about longevity. So, those are
some things that still could be worked on, I think, and are forthcoming. Yeah, I
just want to put those out there as well. Thanks Chair.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Of course, you know, I continue to beat that
drum. And so, I will reiterate that, and Council Member Villegas said in her exact
words, as well as the Administration saying it over and over again, one of the
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main reasons it's been hard to fill this position is because it doesn't pay enough.
So, I am hopeful that the Salary Commission will be addressing that this year, and
that would give us hope for opening this up to more people and making it possible
for other people to apply for and potentially take the job.
I do think that maybe we need some help reframing with the community, and
Council Member Kimball has brought this up before, that this is a job opportunity
that may not be a long-term job opportunity, but maybe it's a good opportunity to
get experience in the public sector. You know, an opportunity to do a four-year
position that gives you a different amount of experience, and maybe even for a
younger person coming up it might be good for them too.
So, I personally think we have not exhausted the main two reasons that I think we
haven't been able to hire into this position. And the third reason being what has
been brought up as potentially adjusting some of the qualifications I think should
be a very last resort that we look at, because I do think it potentially opens it up
for my ability and just not having as strong standards.
I do want to just mention that, you know, yes, this is for something that would go
to the voters. But we do also know that a very large percentage; most ballot
initiatives do get approved by the voters. So, whereas it's not a done deal, it does
seem to be that in our community most things get approved by the voters. So, I
think it is important to keep debating it here until we've got something that, you
know, the majority of people feel is ready to go in front of the voters.
So with that, I guess I'll go back to Council Member Inaba. Would you like to
take a vote on this at this time? Yes, okay seeing no other lights, could we have a
roll call vote on Bill 64, please?
Vote on Bill 64:
The motion to recommend passage of Bill 64, Draft 2,
Draft 2
on first reading was carried by the following roll call vote:
Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Hustace, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Onishi, and Villegas — 5.
Noes: Committee Members Galimba, Kimball,
and Chair Kagiwada — 3.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 1.
Excused: None.
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ADJOURN-
MENT:
Approved:
September 16, 2025
MR. HENRICKS: The motion carries. Bill 64, Draft 2, will be forwarded to the
Council with a favorable recommendation.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Clerk Henricks. And with that, we have no
other items on our agenda. So, this committee is adjourned at 2:15 p.m. Our next
committee will be at 2:30 (p.m.) Thank you all so much.
Seeing no further business, Chair Kagiwada adjourned the meeting at
2:15 p.m.
D
Ms. Jenn Kagiwad4,ehair
Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
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