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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2025/09/16 (2024-2026)Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs 181 Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii September 16, 2025 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 1:00 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. James E. Hustace, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member Absent & Excused: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Palani Greenwell: Bill 64, Draft 2 (Comm. 334.18), in opposition. Nancy Burns: Bill 64, Draft 2 (Comm. 334.18), in opposition. CHR. KAGAVADA: Thank you to our testifiers. Mr. Clerk, may we please start with reading in Communication 40.2. GOEAC-19 September 16, 2025 COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 40.2: HAWAI`I STATE ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES' MAY 30 AND AUGUST 1, 2025, EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated September 8, 2025. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kimball moved to close file on Comm. 40.2. Seconded by Mr. Hustace. CHR. KAGIWADA: Any discussion? Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: No, just submitting per our requirements. CHR. KAGIWADA: Yes, go ahead, Council Member Onishi, proceed. MR. ONISHI: Thank you, Madame Chair. I just had a question for Ms. Kimball. So, I heard this past week or last week, that I guess, some pre -Leg (Legislative) proposal was sent to certain House Representatives. MS. KIMBALL: Are you referring to the letter to Speaker (Nadine) Nakamura? MR. ONISHI: No, it wasn't to her. It was to another House Rep. It was like a County proposal. MS. KIMBALL: There was nothing. There was a letter sent to a House Rep. (Representative), but that's it. MR. ONISHI: Okay, thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you very much. Anybody else? Council Member Hustace. CHR. KAGIWADA: Okay, not seeing any further lights, all those in favor on closing file on Communication 40.2, please say "aye." Any opposed? Vote on Comm. 40.2: The motion to close file on Comm. 40.2 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 1. Excused: None. Page 2 GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025 CHR. KAGIWADA: Can we please read in Communication 488. Comm. 488: NOMINATION OF STEVE A. MORIFUJI TO THE LIQUOR COMMISSION From Mayor C. Kimo Alameda, dated August 28, 2025, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: October 11, 2025 (Section 13-4(k), Hawaii County Charter) (Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor Erin Samura and the nominee came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Vote on Comm. 488: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend confirmation of the nomination (Approved) of Mr. Steve A. Morifuji to the Liquor Commission. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1. Excused: None. Ms. Samum provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. CHR. KAGIWADA: Communication 489, please. Comm. 489: NOMINATION OF GUY S. ALAMEDA TO THE WATER BOARD From Mayor C. Kimo Alameda, dated August 28, 2025, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: October 11, 2025 (Section 13-4(k), Hawaii County Charter) (Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor Erin Samura and the nominee came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 3 GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025 Vote on Comm. 489: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend confirmation of the nomination (Approved) of Mr. Guy S. Alameda to the Water Board. Seconded by Ms. Villegas and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Merkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 1. Excused: None. Ms. Samura provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. CHR. KAGIWADA: Can we go to Resolution 303-25, please. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. Res. 303-25: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE OF HAWAI`I, THE COUNTY OF KAUA`I, THE COUNTY OF MAUI, AND THE CITY AND COUNTY OF HONOLULU FOR THE STATEWIDE MULTI -JURISDICTIONAL DRUG TASK FORCE Authorizes the Hawaii Police Department to enter into a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to interdict drugs via apprehension and arrest of individuals smuggling and distributing illicit narcotics into the State. Reference: Comm.483 Intr. by: Council Member Kagiwada (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend adoption of Res. 303-25. Seconded by Mr. Hustace. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. We have a member from HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) here. Would you please introduce yourself, and maybe tell us a little bit about this resolution. (Note: At this time, HPD Captain Ed Buyten came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. BUYTEN: Sure absolutely, Captain Ed Buyten. I command the Vice Division for the Hawaii Police Department. This MOU is a very important one for the people of Hawaii because this is County agencies working together to share intelligence and stop drug trafficking organizations from bringing dangerous drugs into our community. Page 4 GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025 CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Members, does anybody have any questions for the Captain or comments you want to share with the Committee? Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Thank you, Captain Buyten for being here. We had a moment to talk before this Committee began, and you shared some really powerful data on the amount of narcotics that your team has successfully been able to remove from our streets. Especially, in compared to other counties and the State as a whole. Having just seen what looked like might have been something related to a bust on the side of the road on the way here this morning, I hoped you might be able to just share any details that are available for us to know, and for the public about the good work that you and your team are doing. MR. BUYTEN: Absolutely, it would be my privilege. So currently, Hawaii County Police Department is responsible for 70 percent of the narcotics recovered in the State of Hawaii. That's federal and local coming right out of this island. Right now, meth is currently our biggest issue; I want to say that our division is responsible from February. Because if you don't know, from February 2025, we unified the two Vice sections into one division with oversight and leadership by Chief Mahuna. And since that time, we're up to about 70 pounds of methamphetamine recovered. That's give or take, because we're always crunching the numbers. Cocaine would be a close second to fentanyl. And those numbers don't necessarily come from us, they come from HIDTA (Hawai`i High Intensity Drug Trafficking), which calculates a lot of data for the State of Hawaii. So we're proud of it, and we're trying to continuously attack it for the people of Hawaii. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Captain Buyten. And I thought it was also an interesting framework to look at it. Because some might say, "Oh my gosh, there's so many pounds of drugs going into the Big Island." And I would challenge anyone that would make that assumption to instead recognize there are pounds of illegal drugs coming into all the islands. But our Vice Team has been able to intercept and remove 70 pounds just in the last six to eight months, from the streets. So, thank you again for that. I'm deeply grateful that this is a MOU. I'm deeply grateful that this is a MOU that doesn't give me heartburn, but instead gives me relief. So, thank you, Captain Buyten, appreciate you and your team. MR. BUYTEN: You're welcome. It's our privilege to serve you folks. Page 5 GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025 CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Thank you, Captain. Anybody else have any questions or comment on this resolution? Oh, sorry, Council Member Galimba, go ahead. MS. GALIIyIBA: Thanks. Just a really minor question, which might be a Cody Frenz question, but perhaps you can answer it. I just see that this was last signed in 2019, the example. Is it like every five years or a certain timeframe where this particular MOU needs to be reaffirmed, or is it just sort of based on changes or anything like that? MR. BUYTEN: I definitely can't compare my education to Cody Frenz. So, I would refer that question to her. (Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Dakota "Cody" Frenz came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. FRENZ: Good afternoon, Deputy Corporation Counsel (DCC) Cody Frenz on behalf of the Police Department. So, for this particular MOU, it's been updated as we discussed on a variety of other intergovernmental resolutions that have come before this body. So, for Captain Buyten's purpose, in light of his role as a Captain for the Vice Division, we're updating the paperwork. So, this one will be updated. Granted, if you look at it, it requires the other jurisdictions within the State of Hawaii to also sign. So, I presume they'll be doing a similar process. So, we can get one unified corrected updated document. MS. GALIMBA: Thanks. Is that with the idea that it's supposed to happen annually, or is it another kind of sequence? MS. FRENZ: Sony, I should have clarified that. Unless the MOU or the MOA (Memorandum of Agreement) specifically calls for a termination provision, generally, most of them indicate that they can be terminated with X-number of days of notice. So, these MOUs as a practice are usually uninterrupted, and they just continue to be in effect unless they're updated by one or more of the parties, usually like a point of contact maybe updating additional provisions, additional cooperation language. But in this case, it would be once a new one is executed that it would just remain in effect until another update was required by any party. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you so much. Page 6 GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025 CHR. KAGIWADA: Alright. Anybody else? Alright with that, let's please take a vote. All those in favor of approving Resolution 303-25, please say "aye." Any opposed? Vote on Res. 303-25: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 303-25 (Approved) was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder —1. Excused: None. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Can we go to Resolution 304-25 please. Res. 304-25: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS, PACIFIC ISLAND HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, FOR INTERAGENCY PUBLIC SAFETY COORDINATION Authorizes the Hawaii Police Department to enter into a Memorandum of Understanding to coordinate responsibilities concerning law enforcement, emergency response, mutual aid, physical security, requests for assistance, and other public safety activities for community -based outpatient clinics located in Hilo and Kailua-Kona. Reference: Comm.484 hitr. by: Council Member Kagiwada (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend adoption of Res. 304-25. Seconded by Mr. Hustace. CHR. KAGIWADA: I think we have Major (Jeremie) Evangelista over there along with DCC Frenz. Major, would you like to brief us a little bit on this MOU? (Note: At this time, HPD Major Jeremie Evangelista came forward to address the members of the Committee) MR. EVANGELISTA: Hi, good afternoon, everybody. Major Jeremie Evangelista, Hawaii Police Department. This MOU would be between the Hawaii Police Department and the Veterans Affairs. Veterans Affairs maintains two clinics on Hawaii Island; one in Kona, one in Hilo. Page 7 GOFAC-18 September 16, 2025 They do offer Police services on their federal properties only. So, they would need assistance from local law enforcement to investigate any non-federal violation or assist in an investigation that spills over off of federal property. So, that would be the purpose of this MOU. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much, Major. Any questions or comments from the Committee Members? Sorry, I can't see there over there in Hilo. Anybody, just speak up if you want to say anything. Okay, hearing and seeing none, let's go ahead and —thank you very much, Major for bringing this forward. All those in favor of approving Resolution 304-25, please say "aye." Any opposed? Vote on Res. 304-25: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 304-25 (Approved) was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder-1. Excused: None. CHR. KAGIWADA: Can you please read in Resolution 305-25. Res. 305-25: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH THE HONOLULU POLICE DEPARTMENT, SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION SECTION, FOR INTERAGENCY PUBLIC SAFETY COORDINATION Authorizes the Hawaii Police Department to enter into a Memorandum of Understanding for use of the Honolulu Police Department's full -service forensic testing laboratory. Reference: Comm.485 Intr. by: Council Member Kagiwada (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend adoption of Res. 305-25. Seconded by Mr. Hustace. CHR. KAGIWADA: I believe we have somebody over there from HPD. Please introduce yourself and explain this resolution, thank you. (Note: At this time, HPD Captain Rio Amon -Wilkins came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 8 CK91iWAONM. September 16, 2025 MR. AMON-WILKINS: Good afternoon, Captain Rio Amon -Wilkins with the Criminal Investigation Division in Hilo, also a proud graduate of Honoka`a High School. So this MOU is between our department and the Scientific Investigation Section of the Honolulu Police Department, who does a large amount of lab work for us. Our lab here in our department primarily does drug testing. So, a lot of other types of evidence that we need analyzed, we'd either have to send it to Honolulu PD (Police Department) or to a mainland lab, which comes at a high cost if it has to go to the mainland. Honolulu PD has been doing a lot of lab work for us for many years. I was actually there visiting the lab about six months ago; met with the Lab Director. So the process now is, when we need lab work done, the assigned detective would draft the Chief a letter, and it would go up the chain in our department, basically explaining what the investigation is and the lab work that we need. And then, we'll send that letter to Honolulu PD for their Chief to approve, and then go down the chain there. So, when I was meeting with the Lab Director several months ago, she told me that we could enter into a MOU, which would just streamline the request process for us. So, as far as what Honolulu PD will be doing for us, doesn't change at all. It just streamlines our request process. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you very much, Captain, for laying that out for us. Council Members, anybody have any questions or comments on this. Go ahead, Council Member Onishi. MR. ONISHI: Thank you, Madame Chair. Yeah, I heard about that. It's tough on the timeline, right? Because there's cases where you folks have been waiting or the Prosecutors have been waiting for the test results and so forth. So, is there any discussion within the department or are you folks like creating or trying to come up with a section for having that lab testing to be done here? MR. AMON-WILKINS: I would absolutely love for that to happen. I just think realistically with the amount of funding that would cost, I mean, I don't realistically see that happening anytime soon. We've had a hard enough time trying to get Crime Lab personnel as it is for the three positions that we have in-house, so. I mean, if we could get State of the Art lab here and do all this work here, it would be a blessing. But just realistically, I don't see that any time soon. MR. ONISHI: Well, upcoming there's the budget 2026-2027. Maybe you folks should be working with everyone and with the Administration to see if you guys can put something in there, and then having us support you folks on that, right? Because like you said, it costs money to send it to the mainland; it costs money for Page 9 GOEAC-18 4 September 16, 2025 Honolulu, right? And so, we could be saving some of that money if we start investing now. MR. AMON-WILKINS: Actually, Honolulu PD does not charge us for it. So, if they're not able to do it for some reason. Certain things they cannot do, so that we'll send to a private lab on the mainland, and that does come at a cost. But as far as Honolulu doing it for us, there's no cost, because they are the State Crime Lab. MR. ONISHI: Okay. And I guess when it comes in like certain things, so it's like just first come, first serve, or they take care of Honolulu first; Oahu first or whatever? MR. AMON-WILKINS: So, the way it will be is it goes into a que; it goes in order of case priority. But they will handle our request as a rush request, the same way that they would do for their own agency. So, it's been an excellent relationship. I believe they have 17 criminalists, and all those positions are full for the first time since before COVID (Coronavirus Disease). So, the turnaround time has greatly improved. MR. ONISHI: Oh, that's good. Okay, great, thanks. I yield. Thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else over there in Hilo? No, okay. Anybody here? Alright, seeing no lights on, thank you very much Captain for sharing that information with us. With that, all those in favor of approving Resolution 305-25 and sending to the full Council, please say "aye." Any opposed? Vote on Res. 305-25: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 305-25 (Approved) was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1. Excused: None. CHR. KAGIWADA: Can we go to our final item for this agenda? BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Page 10 GOEAC-18 STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON BILL 64: Draft 2 September 16, 2025 The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Curtis Beck: In opposition. Bill 64: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE VI, CHAPTER 2, (Draft 2) SECTION 6-2.2, OF THE CHARTER OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAPI (2024 EDITION)RELATING TO THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS Replaces the requirement that the Director of Public Works must be a registered professional engineer (PE) with the requirement that the Director have a bachelor's degree in engineering, architecture, business, public administration or a related discipline, or be a licensed attorney. Adds the requirement that at least two of the five years of required administrative or managerial experience must be in public works or construction, or a related field. Requires the Deputy Director be a registered professional engineer and have authority over engineering responsibilities when the Director lacks such certification. Reference: Comm.334.18 Intr. by: Council Member Inaba Recommitted: August 6, 2025 Postponed: September 2, 2025 (Note: There is a motion by Council Member Inaba, seconded by Council Member Villegas, to recommend passage of Bill 64, as amended, on first reading.) CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Clerk Henricks. Council Member Inaba, the floor is yours. MR. INABA: Thank you, Chair. Yes, we postponed this bill at our last meeting in Hilo, and it gave me the opportunity to meet with some of our Professional Engineers here in Hawaii County. Unfortunately, there was no additional proposed language that was prepared or presented by the group. I offered additional time last week. In the end, the group basically summarized that they would just be in opposition of the bill and that there was no clear language to be provided. So, we are where we left off, actually, last time with the amendments. You know, there's been a lot of discussion and testimony as to public safety. We looked across other counties here in Hawaii; Maui County, and Kauai County both having removed that requirement for professional engineer to be —that requirement for the Department Director. Page 11 GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025 I think in an attempt to try and address some of those concerns, we put in that the Deputy would need to have that licensure. I think we are where we are at this point. I don't think it's a short-sighted bill; I think it's just a visionary attempt to try and make sure that we have the best qualified folks leading the department. We still have a Deputy who would have those qualifications, and we still have all of our chiefs who oversee certain divisions with engineering requirements, still having the professional engineer licensure. So, I think we talked through this in detail already. I'll leave it at that, unless anyone has questions. Thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Other Council Members? Council Member Onishi. MR. ONISHI: Thank you. After the last meeting, I thought about it. And when I saw the article in the newspaper, it kind of made me think again. Because I think I mentioned on record about how during my time in the County, I never seen this happen. But then I had to retract that and say that when I was on the Council, it was the Department of Environmental Management (DEM) that we appointed an attorney who was questioned about experience. So, part of the argument about how that person was qualified was because they worked at Corporation Counsel and was under DEM. So, that had that qualification to become the director. So then I thought about now, like DEM. Everybody's talking about Public Works, but nobody talks about Environmental Management because to me, Environmental Management is just as important as Public Works. And so, we do have Division Chiefs at Wastewater and also Solid Waste that are required licensed engineers to be qualified for those positions. So, we also do have that now that is in effect with Public Works; Building and Engineering. So if we look at that, and we hear the people testify that we need the license in Public Works, but they don't mention Environmental Management So, that makes me wonder again, it's like, is Public Works higher in responsibility Public Health and Safety or to me, Environmental Management is just the same because we're talking about pollution, we're talking about a cleaner environment. So unless things can change, I will support this bill. But what I'm going to be doing, as Chair Inaba had mentioned that nobody had put in anything for amending this. But I will be putting in the next one to remove the requirement for the Deputy to be licensed. Because it doesn't make sense that if the Director is going to be unlicensed, then to me the Deputy Director shouldn't be required to be licensed because this to me is like going backwards. So, I'll be doing that and also, I'll be putting in for removal of the timeline that the Administration has to appoint that Director. So, I just wanted to make that comment and I yield. Thank you, Chair. Page 12 GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025 CHR. KAGIWADA: Alright. Anybody else over there in Hilo? Council Member Hustace, please go ahead. MR. HUSTACE: I'm not sure, Chair, if there's anyone in Hilo from Public Works? Just had a question on operations. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Acting Director Azevedo is here. MR. HUSTACE: Acting Director, I just had a question on operations, if you don't mind. (Note: At this time, Acting Director of Public Works Neil Azevedo came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. AZEVEDO: Neil Azevedo, Acting Director of Public Works. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Acting Director, appreciate your time this afternoon. Just through some of my own inquiries in trying to understand the process that you perform within Public Works. Your Division Chiefs, the particular ones that are required to have a PE license; have that license, they stamp and approve the plans accordingly. But there's no paperwork or anything that says that you've been that sort of secondary approval on top of theirs, correct? MR. AZEVEDO: The only place I sign is within routing when they need to go to Corporation Counsel and stuff. And we've got 13 engineers in Public Works right now. We've got a structural engineer there too. So, we've got enough engineers within the department to okay everything. Thank you. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Acting Director. So, it's really just in those contracts, when those are going out, then that's the Director's approval of those plans that have been stamped by your engineers? MR. AZEVEDO: So, we've got a whole bunch —actually, a lot of our jobs right now is all consultants. We have pretty close to 90 percent of our jobs, we put out all consultants. And the 10 percent in house, whichever is the 10 percent, the engineers are signing it. You know, whenever we get the plans, we receive the plans, we sit down with the engineers, we talk story about how they feel about this. You know, making sure they feel good, making sure we do everything we need for public safety. That's our main concern out there. And so far, everything looks good. Page 13 GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025 MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Acting Director. So, what I'm seeing here is that the Director is setting these priorities, and his or her division chiefs are the ones that are approving the plans that are going through the department. So, I'm still trying to make this connection between these requirements that the Director has that would then either be that secondary approval for these chiefs. That's where I'm trying to make this contact a little bit in connection. I've not quite seen it. I'm trying to see if there's any sort of operational layers that would be this approval, other than face-to-face meetings with the chiefs. Face-to-face meetings about, these are projects we need to move forward. But I've not necessarily seen that there's this additional layer of paperwork that says, yes, I've put my eyes on this, I approve this from a Public Safety sort of thing. So, I'm still struggling a little bit to see that connection. So, if any other Council Member can help me with that, I'd appreciate that. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, first off, I want to thank the testifiers for being here. Ms. Bums, your reputation precedes you. For many of my mentors and predecessors working within County service, you have a reputation of exemplary work. And also, Mr. Greenwell, being fresher on the scene, thank you also for being here and testifying. This one has been a really tough one, because I understand the push -back from the professional engineering industry and experts. And yet, as Council Member Hustace is asking questions, we're looking at the specific logistics of what happens within this department. I appreciated the example of having a hospital where your head surgeon doesn't have a medical degree. But then, within a hospital you have a head Administrator, and that person isn't necessarily a doctor, but they run the administration side of things. So, I see the passionate pleas on both sides. I also want to clear up any statements that were made that any changes that are made here, that this is for a Charter amendment, correct? And so, this then, has to come to the public to vote upon. So whether or not this goes forward or not, it then goes the public to make that decision, which is also helpful. This isn't related specifically to what's going on in this Administration, this is related in my seven years of service and served under three different Administrations, and there have been serious challenges for finding somebody with that professional licensure. I'm not sure if you guys have read the most recent draft which provides, "The director shall have had a minimum of five years of experience in administrative or managerial capacity." Page 14 GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025 Our prior DPW director that was approved under our prior Administration had never managed another human; he had his professional licensure for one year. So that, according to the prior standard, made it possible for him to be nominated and once affirmed wasn't there for six months because of the lack of actual managerial. Then it also includes now, two years of which shall have been in Public Works, construction, or a related field. The Director shall also have a bachelor's degree from an accredited institution in the United States of America in engineering, architectural, business, public administration or a related discipline, or be an attorney licensed to practice and in good standing before the Supreme Court of the State of Hawaii. So, we're navigating this challenge for filling positions, in general and within County. I would be remis if I didn't say, so many professional licensed engineers have come forth demanding that this remain a requirement, but none of them have applied for the job because it doesn't pay enough. Exactly, but that doesn't change the position we're in at this point and have been. So, we'll continue to work on it. I suppose I have yet to hear, it sounds like there are a lot of stop -gaps within the department that the Director isn't the final signoff. Okay, well unfortunately, that hasn't been the exact potential for that kind of risk has not been communicated with enough detail other than broad statements and claims, which is my conundrum here. This is my real challenge. Okay, with that I'll yield. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else over in Hilo? Council Member Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. So, the Department of Public Works is currently running, it's operating. Hugh Ono stepped down as Director in March; he was a licensed engineer. And wouldn't you believe it; the Department of Public Works is still functioning. And in fact, I've been hearing more positive reviews than I've ever heard, ever. And the individual that's leading the department right now, right before us, Neil Azevedo, doesn't have a license. It's shocking to me that we're here kind of debating whether or not the head or Deputy should have a license, because by some miracle, things are moving along. Permits are being issued faster, I'm seeing more guys out paving roads. You dusted off plans that some of your engineers did for traffic mitigation issues in my community years ago. You found them and you said, "Ash, we're going to get this done now." Page 15 GOFAC-18 September 16, 2025 The Director needs to be somebody that is going to hold people accountable, that is going to motivate people to get the job done. Because it's a privilege to be serving the people of Hawaii County. I wrote down a couple of words here that one of the testifiers shared earlier, "Dangerous and costly." I want to bring up Kalaniana'ole Avenue. Acting Director is smiling right now, right? We had all kinds of professionally licensed engineers on top of that project that left the community of Keaukaha in quite a predicament, because there was a partial closure of Kalaniana'ole Avenue for five years in a tsunami inundation zone. Just because you're a professional engineer doesn't mean you're going to get it right. That was a dangerous and a costly situation. I have also experienced the same thing with projects in my district related to eruption recovery road restoration projects. They were professional licensed engineers on the job, but still things and obstacles arise. I think it's because someone like Mr. Azevedo holding people's feet to the fire, accountable, let's get it done. Let's get it done according to the budget we articulated and the timeline we said we would do it on. I think that's really important, and that's what I'm looking for in terns of a leader for the department. I fully support Council Member Onishi's suggestion to remove letter (b); removing the requirement of having a Deputy having an engineering license. It doesn't make sense to me, but I feel comfortable with you leading our department right now as Acting Director, Director Azevedo. And we can't continue to solve problems with the same sort of solutions, right? This idea stemmed years ago from then Council Chair, Aaron Chung. And it's been a few terms that we've been debating about the qualifications of Public Works Directors, because I think in his first set of terms as a Council Member and his second, he saw with each Mayoral Administration, just the difficulty of finding people with not just that engineering license qualification, but the willingness to kind of step forward. And this helps to open up the slate of candidates that can serve in that position. So, I'm going to be for moving this along. It still needs to go to the voters before it's formally adopted, but I'm for having more options for us to entertain. Thanks Director for being here. I yield, Chair. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Council Member Kimball. Page 16 GOBAC-18 September 16, 2025 MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. I'll start with kind of a response to Council Member Kierkiewicz's comments. You know, a situation like Kalaniana'ole or others that happened over the years too, to say that it because there was a PE on the project that it went overtime or overbudget, I think is flawed -thinking in terms of the many different ways public projects can end up overbudget or taking more time. I think it's important to consider, with respect to the licensure for professional engineers, that taking into account budget and timeframe is part of their obligation. And the flipside of it is how much more would projects would have cost us, how much longer would projects have taken, how many potential lives could have been lost because there wasn't a professional engineer reviewing a Public Works project. The Administrative position, as Director, I've said before previously with respect to this bill, I don't have any issue with that person being more of an Administrator not having that PE (Professional Engineer) license. My main concern has been that, that Administrator should not have the ability to override an engineering decision made by an engineer in the department without a PE qualification. So, I think that's a little bit about what Council Member Hustace was speaking to about whether or not there were any protocols specifically in place that allowed for that or disallowed for that. And that's my concern with this amendment, is that it has to be clear that even though the buck stops with whoever the Director is at DPW, if there's an engineering decision made by an engineer, that has to be upheld when it's for public health and safety. Because there are examples of decisions that were made when an engineer's recommendation wasn't taken, and it ended up being costly or creating damage or even endangering folks. So to use Council Member Villegas' example, where you know, in a hospital there are doctors, and there's a Hospital Administrator. If your doctor says, I recommend 'Y' treatment for you, you wouldn't want that Hospital Administrator to come down and say, well, I'm going to say you can't have that or don't do that because the Hospital Administrator isn't a medical professional. So, it's the same scenario here. We want engineers to have full authority to make engineering decisions without being overridden by the Director. And that, I think just needs to be either clear within the proposal of the bill or followed up within Code. So, if you look at the responsibilities in Chapter 5 for the Director or their designee, there are activities in there that really should have engineering oversight. Similarly, the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) specifically Page 17 SMIMU September 16, 2025 enumerates things that need to have a PE overseeing those activities. So, I still think that there's opportunity to get this to where it needs to be. I mentioned last time, one of my concerns was if you had the Director and the Deputy; the Deputy with the PE, that they would come in together or at least in short order, is one of my concerns. But I will go back to if you can find the deputy with the PE then you should be able to have that person be the Director, and then the Deputy can be the Administrator. I mean, that's been the set up before, is that the Director is a PE, and the administrative functions; the day-to- day operations, prioritizations, that actual skillset falls to the deputy. That's another model as well. So, I continue to support, you know, keeping the PE licensure requirement for the department. And I don't want Mr. Azevedo here to take any offense to that, but that is my professional and personal position. Thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Kimball. Anybody else here? Council Member Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: So, yeah, this is not about particular people. This is about policy in the long term because this is going to take some time to get through our process and then going and being on the ballot. So, this really isn't about current or near -future situations. So, looking at this in the long-term for me, I feel that we would be better served as a County to have a director that does have a PE license and to have that director on the Mayor's immediate team, the cabinet. I think that really makes for a stronger cabinet team to have that level of expertise and education there for immediate discussion of projects and direction. So, I do not support removing the PE requirement. Thanks. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Hustace. MR. HUSTACE: We keep having this conversation about —I still think we have opportunity for the consideration of the salary. That still needs to be stated and that still needs to be resolved. We've also had past conversations about the longevity of the role. I think sometimes that's a consideration that is being made in the private sector whether they consider this opportunity, because it is that at -will position, and so there are challenges about longevity. So, those are some things that still could be worked on, I think, and are forthcoming. Yeah, I just want to put those out there as well. Thanks Chair. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Of course, you know, I continue to beat that drum. And so, I will reiterate that, and Council Member Villegas said in her exact words, as well as the Administration saying it over and over again, one of the Page 18 GOEAC-18 September 16, 2025 main reasons it's been hard to fill this position is because it doesn't pay enough. So, I am hopeful that the Salary Commission will be addressing that this year, and that would give us hope for opening this up to more people and making it possible for other people to apply for and potentially take the job. I do think that maybe we need some help reframing with the community, and Council Member Kimball has brought this up before, that this is a job opportunity that may not be a long-term job opportunity, but maybe it's a good opportunity to get experience in the public sector. You know, an opportunity to do a four-year position that gives you a different amount of experience, and maybe even for a younger person coming up it might be good for them too. So, I personally think we have not exhausted the main two reasons that I think we haven't been able to hire into this position. And the third reason being what has been brought up as potentially adjusting some of the qualifications I think should be a very last resort that we look at, because I do think it potentially opens it up for my ability and just not having as strong standards. I do want to just mention that, you know, yes, this is for something that would go to the voters. But we do also know that a very large percentage; most ballot initiatives do get approved by the voters. So, whereas it's not a done deal, it does seem to be that in our community most things get approved by the voters. So, I think it is important to keep debating it here until we've got something that, you know, the majority of people feel is ready to go in front of the voters. So with that, I guess I'll go back to Council Member Inaba. Would you like to take a vote on this at this time? Yes, okay seeing no other lights, could we have a roll call vote on Bill 64, please? Vote on Bill 64: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 64, Draft 2, Draft 2 on first reading was carried by the following roll call vote: Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Hustace, Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Onishi, and Villegas — 5. Noes: Committee Members Galimba, Kimball, and Chair Kagiwada — 3. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 1. Excused: None. Page 19 GOBAC-18 ADJOURN- MENT: Approved: September 16, 2025 MR. HENRICKS: The motion carries. Bill 64, Draft 2, will be forwarded to the Council with a favorable recommendation. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Clerk Henricks. And with that, we have no other items on our agenda. So, this committee is adjourned at 2:15 p.m. Our next committee will be at 2:30 (p.m.) Thank you all so much. Seeing no further business, Chair Kagiwada adjourned the meeting at 2:15 p.m. D Ms. Jenn Kagiwad4,ehair Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs JK/dt 1►-1 ! Vo (Date) Page 20