HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2025/10/07 (2024-2026)Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
19" Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
October 7, 2025
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and
ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 1:00 p.m., in the Council Chambers,
Hilo, by Ms. Jean Kagiwada, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Mr. James E. Hustace, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
Absent & Excused: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called
by the Chair:
Armando J. Rodriguez: Res. 320-25 (Comm. 516), in support.
Noelle Lindermann: Res. 320-25 (Comm. 516), in support.
Kencho Gurung: Res. 320-25 (Comm. 516), in support.
Mark Clement: Bill 68, Draft 3 (Comm. 376.6), in opposition.
Terry McDonald: Res. 320-25 (Comm. 516), in support.
Nancy Moser: Res. 320-25 (Comm. 516), in support.
Kathleen. Friday: Res. 320-25 (Comm. 516), in support.
GOEAC-19 October 7. 2025
Maya Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder: Res. 320-25 (Comm. 516), in support.
Ruth Robison: Res. 320-25 (Comm. 516), comment.,
Patti Cook: Res. 320-25 (Comm. 516), in support.
Nancy Carr Smith: Res. 320-25 (Comm. 516), in support.;
Bill 68, Draft 3 (Comm. 376.6), in opposition.;
and Bill 90 (Comm. 515), in support.'
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CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much, and I just want to say mahalo nui to
all the testifiers and muchas gracias (thank you very much). And love seeing
some younger people come out too, even though it's the middle of the week day,
really do appreciate that. So, Mr. Clerk can we go ahead and get started with the
first item.
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications. i
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Comm. 538: NOMINATION OF JOHN K. MCBRIDE TO THE TRANSPORTATION
COMMISSION
From Mayor C. Kimo Alameda, dated September 19, 2025, requesting the
Council's review and confirmation.
(Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor Micah Alameda
and the nominee came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
Vote on Comm. 538: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend confirmation of the nomination
(Approved) of Mr. John K. McBride to the Transportation Commission.
Seconded by Mr. Hustace and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas;
and Chair Kagiwada — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz — 1.
Excused: None.
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Mr. Alameda provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background
and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Mr. McBride. Thank you, Mr. Alameda.
Alright, could you please move on to Resolution 320-25.
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ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
Res. 320-25: EXPRESSES SUPPORT FOR DUE PROCESS AND THE PROTECTION OF
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS FOR ALL RESIDENTS OF THE COUNTY OF
HAWAI`I AND AFFIRMS THE COUNTY'S COMMITMENT TO
MULTICULTURALISM AND ITS IMMIGRANT HERITAGE
Requests the Mayor to review existing and potential agreements with public and
private partners to ensure constitutional rights of residents are protected and
requests the Hawaii Police Department to limit its involvement with the United
States Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement
to cases involving criminal activity.
Reference: Comm.516
Intr. by: Council Member Galimba
Motion to Approve: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend adoption of Res. 320-25.
Seconded by Mr. Hustace.
CHR. KAGIWADA: With that, I'll turn it back over to Council Member
Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. So, I really vacillated on introducing this for
a long time. I mean, it did sort of come out of the MOU (Memorandum of
Understanding) that we had earlier in the year. And you know, some days I felt
like I should do it, and some days I felt like it was almost, you know, unnecessary
to restate the values that are enshrined in the founding documents of our republic.
So, I went back and forth. But community was sending us messages to our emails
periodically, bringing up these issues. And so, I finally decided to actually go
forward with it and do it.
I'm not particularly happy about having to do this, as Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder said this morning about henneries; we should be able to have
chickens. But you know, here we are. Daily we see things when used that are
just dismayed, and that erode not just due process and equal protection, but other
really foundational rights of our country.
So, I think it is important to restate them and to remember what some of those
rights are for citizens and for residents, and for just people. As well as serve
under more specific topics of the relationship between our Police Deepartment and
ICE (United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement), whicl `.we are hiring
a new police officer. I think, it is also timely that we have this resolution for the
County as an entity as well.
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I was actually thinking about this and what strategy would be most helpful for our
immigrant community, and one option was this resolution. There were some
other thoughts about more specific practical help for that community, which
District 6 is very agricultural, very much coffee -based; a big part of it because the
economy is based on the coffee industry, and they are being very directly
impacted by these ICE actions. 1
So, I really see this as setting the stage, and as a foundation for some of those
more practical efforts and support that we, as a Council can potentially bring
forward in the future to help our immigrant community and our agricultural
worker -immigrant community, such as providing support for farmers to get
VISA'S (Visitors International Stay Admission), which is a very difficult time-
consuming process for a small farmer. So, that's one potential next; step, as well
as perhaps providing more support here at the County in our Immigration Office.
We right now just have one position.
So, yes, in the future, I hope we can build on this, and it can just be the start of a
conversation. I'm not a prolific legislature, and very sort of amateur one. So, I
just wanted to thank the members of the community who encouraged and helped
me with this resolution and thank the testifiers as well.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. Other members of
the body up here on the dais; comments, questions? Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Yes. Thank you, Council Member, Galimba for putting this
forward. And I think you undersell yourself in terms of the drafting. It's a very
well -drafted resolution. And so, similarly, it seems like something like this
shouldn't be necessary, and I think I've continued to articulate the I'm an optimist
about things, and I believe that bureaucracy in the courts would save us. But I'm
beginning to lose hope. But then in some cases with respect to the immigration
issue. So, well it may seem profanatory, I think it is actually important to
articulate as you have with this resolution. Because it was brought up by one of
the testifiers, I'm actually curious, and I don't know if you had this 'conversation.
So, I'll direct it to you first. But then, this may be a Corporation Counsel
question. The statement was made about the masking for ICE agents, and that
California had passed the law with respect to that. That's one of the things that
I'm concerned about is the masking and how they're identifying themselves. Is
that something that you discussed as a possible action that we could take at the
County level or is that necessarily have to happen at the State level? Do you
know, and if not Corporation Counsel Schoen, would you be able to respond to
that?
MS. GALIMBA: I'll yield to Ms. Schoen.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Renee Schoen came forward to
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address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SCHOEN: Good afternoon, Renee Schoen, Corporation Counsel. I'm
sorry, could you repeat your question.
MS. KIMBALL: A comment was made by one of the testifiers regarding the
fact that California had passed the law requiring the ICE agents not -wear masks
when they identify themselves. I've been curious about whether or,not that is
something that necessarily has to be implemented at the State level or could we
make that requirement through ordinance at the County level?
MS. SCHOEN: I'm not sure, and I'd like to get back to you on that. But my
initial reaction would be, actually, I don't want to say.
MS. KIMBALL: No, I'm sorry to have put you on the spot. I should have
asked prior. But I think and I was going to suggest that perhaps it was the
friendly amendment to include that interest if it was something that had to be
done at the State level, that we would also ask that the State pass similar
legislation. But I'll work with Corporation Counsel offline to see if it's
something we can actually do at the County level, I'd be interested in pursuing
that, but if we have to go through the State, some language in there urging them
to pass something of that nature would be something that I would consider
adding. Thank you.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Anybody else? Council
Member Onishi.
MR. ONISHI: Thank you, Madame Chair. This is great but I think to make it
much stronger, in the `Be It Finally Resolved," I think you should have the
State legislators, Governor, Federal congressional people there in this, that it
should go to all of them, to send a message. Then, that way it makes it much
stronger and it's not just Hawaii County, right? We're looking at 'increasing it,
not only statewide, but also nationwide. So, you could do an amendment at the
next meeting. I yield, thank you.
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CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else? Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I just want to chime in and echo the sentiments of those
who's expressed gratitude for bringing this forward and for everybody that
you've worked with. I've been listening to a book about hope and these dark
times. But dark times have opportunity for courage and people to come
together to remind one another what our Country and our Constitution stand for,
and that we are the people.
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So, it gives me some hope and some glimmers in this time of such — it's easy to
get bogged down with frustration and futility and feeling overcome and over -
rot. I go back to, you know, they talk about psychology, there's fight flight
freeze, and I struggle with every one of those some days. But the goal is to find
my way and our way back into flow, and embrace change and being part of this
positive change.
So, thank you for taking the time. And I appreciate how you said you know,
some of this just seems so obvious, like why do you have to restate;truth and the
obvious. But in times of such false narratives, it is most important, and actually
vital that we continue to speak truth and stand up to those in power and remind
them and ourselves who we serve. And so, I just thank you for your strong
voice and your literary expertise in drafting this resolution. So, I yield.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Michelle, for bringing this
forward. It's been a huge issue, County, State, Federal, just everywhere. It's a
very persistent theme and I think you really took a step out to address. And the
testimonies today spoke to that. Without being repetitive, one of the testifiers,
my daughter; she said something, and I think there's a beauty to it. And it was
Aunty Pilahi Paki who said that aloha is the answer, basically.
One of the things that makes us different here in Hawaii is our incredibly
mixed plate past with a lot of immigration built into that. But more; uniquely is
that we have what we call, aloha. And the way that we treat people' the way that
we expect to be treated, I feel is different here than anywhere else in the world.
That is the one thing that my daughter was trying to say, that I really homed in
on, was that's what really makes us different. So, thank you for bringing this
forward, and just making this statement. And in the testimonies, the testifiers
speaks to that. So, thank you.
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CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Hustace.
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MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. You had me at the first two "Whereas"
clauses. And on behalf of, you know, my Hawaiian, Chinese, European
Ancestry, I want to thank you for bringing this forward. Thank you.
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CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Villegas.
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MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder, with
your statements about aloha. You've all heard some of my frustration with the
term alohabeing proselytized by different groups and organizations with the
different agenda and it made me think of the statement, don't mistake my aloha
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for weakness. And there is power in aloha; there is kuleana, there's
accountability. It is not a passive, just acceptance of things that are'not pono.
So, thank you, Mr. Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder, for bringing that up. I yield.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else? Okay with that, I'm going to
add a few things. Did you want to add some more, go ahead.
MS. GALIMBA: I just wanted to say that I will make an amendment based on
Council Member Onishi's comments. I think that's a good idea, and I'm also
open to friendly amendments to make it even better.
CHR KAGIWADA: Alright. I too wish we didn't have to do this. But I have
recently gone onto the ICE website. And for those of you that haven't been
there, I'll just explain one page I saw, which is a map of the United -States. And
it shows, I believe six states that have passed policy saying they will not do
287(g) agreements with the Federal Government. The majority of states have at
least one 287(g) agreement with the Federal Government.
Then there are four tiny little states, us being one of them that are in white. And
what it says for those is, ICE is actively pursuing 287 agreements in these
places. So, I do think this is absolutely necessary. And thank you very much
for bringing it forward, because we are one of these places where we are a small
state. We don't often have the ability to stand up to the Federal Government on
our own. We rely on doing collaborations with others. But in this case, I do
think we need to make a stand and at least state, as stated in the `Be it
Resolved" clause, that we will not be working with Homeland Security,
Immigration and Customs Enforcement on cases involving criminal activity and
will not assist with civil immigration action. So, appreciate that.
I guess I also wanted to just say thank you for bringing up the issue, of
potentially more specific help for our population. We had a short conversation
about this, and I am interested in looking as we get into budget season, of
adding somebody for the Kona side, since we only have one immigration person
who sits in R&D (Department of Research and Development) over here in Hilo.
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Somebody that speaks Spanish. Somebody that can provide not only help for
potentially those farmers to get documentation and others. But also, just to help
Spanish speakers over there, access our County resources that they'don't
currently maybe have access to and have somebody in their community that
they can work with and work through. t
There's a similar program over on Oahu, and I'm looking into, can we maybe
emulate that and do something over here. I also think it speaks to this
Administration's promise or dedication to making sure that different parts of the
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Island have support when needed. And so, I do think that particularly over in
the South Kona area, we do need some support there.
So, thank you so much for bringing this forward. I'm happy to support and look
forward to friendly amendments making it even better. Alright with that, all
those in favor of approving Resolution 320-25 and sending it to the full Council
with a favorable recommendation, please say, "aye." Any opposed?
Vote on Res. 320-25: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 320-25 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes:
Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kagiwada — 8.
Noes:
None.
Absent:
Committee Member Kierkiewicz —1.
Excused:
None.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much, everybody. We'll move on to Bill 68,
please.
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
Bill 68: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE VI OF THE CHARTER OF
(Draft 3) THE COUNTY OF HAWAI`I (2024 EDITION), RELATING TO THE
ESTABLISHMENT OF A DEPARTMENT OF BUILDING
Establishes a new Department of Building with the authority to regulate building
and construction -related activities; creates a Director of Building position
appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the Council; and establishes a
Building Codes Commission to advise the Mayor, Council, and Director on
building and construction -related matters.
Reference: Comm.376.6
Imr. by: Council Members Kierkiewicz and Hustace
Postponed: July 22 and August 5 and 19, 2025
(Note: There is a motion by Council Member Kierkiewicz, seconded by Council
Member Hustace, to recommend passage of Bill 68, as amended, on first reading.)
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. I will turn it over to Council
Member Hustace.
MR. HUSTACE: Thanks Chair. We've had some good conversations about
this, and I know there's been some interest on different parts of the bill;
unfortunately, Council Member Kierkiewicz isn't here to speak to it.
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We have Communication 376.7 from Director of Finance. You know, this isn't
something that's usually offered up at this point in the stage for a Charter
amendment of this scale. But wanted to provide just kind of a peek and a look
and see what sort of financial impact this may have on the County. So, that is
there, and I welcome Director if she wants to come up if you have any particular
questions about that communication. It's a single page, and the meat of the
document is on the flip -side of it there. I think we just received it on the dais
here just a short moment ago.
But in essence, there definitely is that increase in the Salaries and Wages
(S&W) as it pertains to separating out the Building Division within the
Department of Public Works (DPW) into its own free-standing department.
And as you can see, the estimated S&W increase is $1.3 million with fringe
benefits for those 11 new positions that would be able to stand up for that office
in particular. And the Director can speak more about those intricacies there.
Director, if you want to kind of chime in on that, that would be awesome.
Thank you.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Diane Nakagawa came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. NAKAGAWA: Good afternoon, Council Members. Diane Nakagawa,
Finance Department. We were asked to provide a preliminary cost estimate for
an establishment of a Building Department. So, I'll walk you through, quickly,
these costs. The ongoing cost is approximately $1.9 million with the first -year
cost of at least $6.4 million.
So, this includes, as the Council Member mentioned, 11 positions. A Director,
Deputy Director and Administrative staff. We took the anticipated total
position count of this new department and compared it with comparable sized
departments; Planning and Housing, and looked at their Administrative staff and
other departments around the County, and that's how we came up with those
nine positions. That increases $1.3 million S&W and fringe. And then a one-
time cost of $245,000 for computers, chairs, other equipment; printers, vehicles,
things like that.
We did an increase in lease space, East and West Hawaii, $540,000. That is
based on the current, as we have looking at market rate, taking an average of
10,000 to 12,000 square feet in Hilo; about half that space in West Hawaii. So,
average of $540,000.
One-time build -out; we did take a look, but we didn't get a chance to do a full
analysis, but this was brought forward back in 2022, and a quite extensive
analysis was done for a build -out. That was estimated at $4.3 million. We do
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anticipate this would be increased probably 30 percent based on DPW's
estimate, probably $5.6 million.
The commission, we looked at similar -size commission members across the
County, about $6,000 annually. So, I think that covers ongoing $1.9 and at least
$6.4 up to $7.5 million first -year costs.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Director. Really appreciate you taking the time
to kind of crunch these numbers and provide some insight into this process. I
know it's not often provided at this stage. But it will give the members some
additional things to think about as they weigh this option, this consideration.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Of course, you're welcome.
MR. HUSTACE: So, as you can see, the Director did a great job of presenting
those numbers on this potential. You know, it may switch your mind on a
couple things. I know that is the costs, and we've heard from testifiers about
that costs to the County for establishing this department.
Through this conversation, we've talked about the permitting process as well.
So, you can kind of set those numbers aside and think about what does the
permitting process look like form your experience, you know, as we hear things
through communities.
The Mayor does talk about three weeks for permits. I still don't have a clear
picture of what three weeks really is. Is that skewed because of solar permits?
Is it skewed for things that are a little faster on the pipeline. I'm not sure. I
don't have a clear answer on that. So, that's something to consider as well.
But we've had good conversations about this and how we want to, as you see,
and as Council we see a way to help streamline the process. Is this the right
way? That's for you to determine. But we've had some good conversations
about the Building Codes Commission. I think that's something in there that I
think a lot of you have seen some support for or an opportunity to establish
something like that. So, I'll leave it at that for now if there are any particular
questions or thoughts from the members. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Onishi,
please.
MR. ONISHI: Thank you, Madame Chair. I still have a hard time supporting
this. I feel that we are improving with the system. I haven't really been
involved, but prior to being on the Council, I did work a lot with processing
building permits, and I've seen the problems of what happened.
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I would recommend using some of this money to hire more staffing, because
basically, that's what they would need for both sides of the island. And in
regard to the timelines, usually what happens is that you submit, you might go
through your first round or first couple agencies; then they might find
something wrong. Then once you get it back, then during that time, your time
stops, right? Then you resubmit then your time starts again. So, sometimes it
depends on when the applicant makes their corrections, because if they take two
months to do it —I've had cases where it got submitted back to the architect, but
the architect was too busy, and it kind of was on their desk. So then, the
applicant would go and question me. Then come to find out that the architect
had it for this period of time. So, the delay sometimes can be on their side. So,
timeline wise, it's like when it's in the system.
The other thing that I was going to mention is that I guess what I'm hearing is
that morale now is a little bit better. And so that's good. The other thing which
happened in the past was that our inspectors, when they weren't doing any
inspections, were able to help with the review.
But back I think in 2008 or 2010, they changed that role where inspectors just
do inspecting work, and then you had the reviewers who reviewed the plans.
So, that could be something too, where they could change that again and have it
where the inspectors could do some of the reviews too.
So for now, like I said, I cannot support this. And I don't know, but Director,
can you come up for a fast one, because I'm thinking where are we going to get
this money from? If this passes, right, so this would go to the voters in 2026.
So, maybe starting from 2027, we might have to start establishing this
department. Where would the funding come from?
MS. NAKAGAWA: So, as mentioned previously, we are starting our
budgeting process now. We have advised our departments that we were going
status quo this year with very minimal supplementals. So, as we move into the
next budget year, as we look at things that need to be adjusted, when it's a status
quo budget, if there's things added to the budget then there are reductions that
would need to be made. There's lots of things that need to happen between now
and then. But if that's what we're looking at right now, then reductions would
need to be made in other places.
MR. ONISHI: Okay. And then, we still have these major projects that is
mandated by Federal Government, right?
MS. NAKAGAWA: As we get into more budget discussions in more detail,
then yes, we will continue to talk about those obligations that we have that are
significant that weigh heavily on our budget decisions. It is our debt service
that will continue to increase as our revenues start to flatten out a bit.
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So, yes, those are the discussions that we would need to have and concessions
that would need to be made on things that are added to the budget.
MR. ONISHI: Okay, thank you. I yield, thank you.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else? Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Nakagawa, before you walk away. So
the bill does one thing, but my brain always goes a different direction most
immediately. Where I went to in this bill was actually wanted to separate the
Highways Division out of Public Works, which may not make sense. But I love
the idea of making Neil, Director of Highways, Road, Facilities and
Maintenance, and not letting Building do their work. This achieves the same
goal, but in a different way.
My question for you is, are there any other costs associated with breaking apart
other portions of Public Works that will have to have a Director and other staff
because we've separated the division? And there's multiple parts of Public
Works; if Building has their own director and becomes their own department,
do we take another cost somewhere else to fulfil what's been lost?
MS. NAKAGAWA: I always have to take a second to make sure I'm tracking
what you're asking. But in what we reviewed, I don't think so. You know we
took a look at mainly the administrative costs that would be incurred by any
separate department or agency. But unless you're referring to taking another
division outside, then those costs would remain within the Public Works
Department.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, that's common sense. So, this will
then take on a new home for the new office; new directors, new leather chairs;
new office spaces, cigar holders; all that stuff that comes with Administrative.
MS. NAKAGAWA: So, we looked up all the things that would be necessities
for staff. So, that's what we took into account. The space I would caveat with,
you know, there's still a lot of further analysis that would be done to look at
exactly what is needed. We looked at the average space requirements, but as
you know, we are limited on space in both our main County buildings.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, that's fair. Next question, so, initial
cost of $6.4 million is your estimate. My question for you was, annual S&W
and OCE (Other Current Expenses) costs total approximately $1.9 million;
$1.9 million for the first year, second year, or this is an annual increase because
of the Salary and Wages and positions built in.
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MS. NAKAGAWA: So, 11 positions: Salary and Wages and Fringe is $1.339.
They would have normal increases as we see today with any type of negotiated
raises. I didn't factor those in, but those would of course, increase as all other
Salaries and Wages would increase.
MR. K kNEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Every annually?
MS. NAKAGAWA: The same with all our other positions. Yeah, they would
have those increases.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you for submitting this. I like
this. This is basically what we call a Fiscal Impact Statement.
MS. NAKAGAWA: This one is preliminary. We're not quite at that point in
time yet. But most of this information would be contained there as well. Just
probably refined a bit.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Beautiful. Thank you, Director. I yield,
Chair.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you. I have to acknowledge a little bit of sticker
shock with this number coming before us. And I think that the questions asked
by Council Member Onishi with respect to, you know, where would we find the
funding for this are important to consider. Especially, with the representations
by the Administration about the improvement and turnaround times with respect
to permitting.
I don't know, Acting Director Azevedo, if you're prepared to speak to this right
now. Thank you for appearing just when I needed you to. We haven't actually
had any feedback from the department yet about their thoughts on this. And I
think that, if we're going to consider spending this amount of money, really
understanding at some level from the department what their position is on this
and whether or not they think it would have a meaning of full impact is relevant.
So I think, Director, what are your thoughts on whether or not this would
improve services to the public, which I think is our main interest.
(Note: At this time, Public Works Acting Director Neil Azevedo came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. AZEVEDO: Good afternoon, Acting Director Neil Azevedo. Right now,
the Building Division is doing a hell of a job. They're working and getting
things done and moving forward. And I think we've got 118 positions, and I
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think about 100 are filled. Eighteen positions are open right now. But they're
the higher positions where we cannot fill. But right now, I think there's one
position as a Clerk, and we're going to give interviews in about a month.
I really think everything is moving smoothly and everybody's happy.
Everybody's working together, and whenever you work together, things get
done. And so, for me, I'll just leave it how it is, and will continue to support
our communities around us.
MS. KIMBALL: Has it been your recent experience similar to Council Member
Onishi talking with folks about agency delays? It seems like DOH (Department
of Health) is kind of the biggest barrier. Particularly, with respect to residential
right now in getting things processed in a timely way. Has that been your
observation as well? Don't mean to throw any agency under the bus.
MR. AZEVEDO: Yes, I won't do that. And I'll reach out to each one and I'll
ask them questions and see how we can progress together as a team. You know,
we need everyone there. We cannot throw anybody under the bus because it's
not going to help us in the long run.
Right now, we're working good with DOH; we're working good with
Wastewater. Every department, every division, every government agency is
working good together. So, I think the way it is, we'll just let it go and we'll
just keep communicating. Because the main this is to communicate with
everyone, and everything will move smoothly.
MS. KIMBALL: I think if possible, you know, depending on and whether it's
held here in Committee or goes forward, could we ask for the department or the
division to provide us with some statistics of, like permits process; actual
numbers over the last few months for us to help with our facilitator decision
making. Could I ask for that from you folks?
MR AZEVEDO: Yes, ever since I started, I asked for a monthly —on how the
permits were going; how fast and quickly everything's going, and we can
provide you guys that.
MS. KIMBALL: That would be great. That can even just come as a
communication. It doesn't have to be a presentation, but if you would share that
with all the Council Members, that would be appreciated.
MR. AZEVEDO: Yes, thank you. I will need a communication and showing
the numbers of what we've got, it's what we need. You know, just the facts.
MS. KIMBALL: Yes, just the facts. Alright, so, just to the maker, I think right
now, I'm a little bit hesitant to continue with my support just because these
numbers are much higher than I had anticipated seeing.
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I do really like the Building Commission idea, and if there's a way to keep that,
I think that's important. Particularly because I think it's a mistake, if I may say
so for this body to be the entity that reviews the Building Code updates, just
because we don't have the right expertise. And I do think the Building
Commission would provide that.
Now, I do realize that there's also impacts financially and timewise with staff to
manage another commission, but I wouldn't see this one meeting as regularly
perhaps as some of our other commissions. Really just when we're looking at
adopting the updated Building Code. So, I do support that aspect of the bill, but
just have hesitations about the cost of a new department. Thank you.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Anybody else? Council
Member Onishi.
MR. ONISHI: Thank you, Madame Chair. Just I guess, let you folks know,
okay, I was assigned or appointed to that committee that Representative Ilagan
through the Legislature created. And basically, it's like I guess reviewing
building permits, the sewer permits, and I forgot what the third one was. And
there were these break-out committees that were looking into it.
This past session, they had from the Building Association about some
amendments to do for the State to approve to at least make it much more
feasible for someone to build a home or build a building, right? It never passed.
The Legislature didn't pass any of those proposals. And now, they're creating
this group to look at how we can better the process.
So, it's really kind of backwards to me, and so, until we can see what the State
is going to do. Because from the Federal regulations or proposals, then it goes
on to the State, then the State approves it, then the Counties need to approve
what the State approved. And usually at the State level, there's no discussion,
like we had in the past when I was on the Council, where we had to, I think,
pass the 2008 Building Code.
So, at the time, Public Works working with the Council, we did some
amendments to the Building Code because of the requirements that were
needed. And for example, and I've brought it up before, was when you're
building a new home and you had to have catchment, in the proposed language
was that you needed two separate catchments; one for Fire, one for home -use.
But working with the Fire Department, we made it with one catchment. The
first half of the tank was for home -use and the bottom half was for Fire. So, this
way, the new homeowner didn't have to put in two separate catchments. So,
that saved a lot of money.
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The second thing that was also required was a safe room. And all this is
because of the National —because these insurance companies get together, and
if things happen like on the mainland like we're seeing now, that's how they
make these quotes. So, you had to build a safe room. So now, that's an
additional room that you've got to reinforce in case there's tornados or
hurricanes. So what we did is we had it where your existing rooms; you build
one room to be that standard. So, basically, what they would do is with a
bathroom; they would reinforce the bathroom. So, that would become your safe
room.
So, the next meeting that's coming up is supposed to be in December. So, I'll
make sure that I can attend it to report back to let you folks know what is going
on with that committee. Thank you, I yield.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. Yes, I also have sticker shock on this. But I also
think the Code Commission is, I think, a good idea. And I was reading on Civil
Beat that Kauai County is actually coming up with a Plantation Home Code so
that they can continue to use the houses that were built in the Plantation era, that
you know, still work perfectly fine for keeping a roof over peoples' heads. So, I
think their administration is working on that. So, we might not need to wait for
a. Building Code Commission. Perhaps we can start on that as well. Just
wondering what you think about that, Neil.
MR. AZEVEDO: For that, we're looking at the older towns, like the old
plantation homes, the older homes. And see how we can adjust that Code to
what Code they built during that time. You know, we were already talking
about that for about the past two months of how we can adjust to that, because
there's no way we can bring it up to the Code now. You know, the older
homes, and no one is going to be able to afford it. So, we're looking at
everybody right across the board. Not only certain people, but everyone and
making sure they can afford what they can do. Thank you.
MS. GALIMBA: Yeah, thanks very much. You know, I have first-hand
experience of that, like having an older home, and it was built before we even
had a County. And to make it legal, we would actually have to take it down.
And so, it made no sense. Like how does that work? So, I really support that
we work on that with the Administration. And perhaps a commission would be
helpful to bring that kind of knowledge in to help as well.
MR. AZEVEDO: Like me, I've got 10 siblings. You know, we lived in a
Quonset but from geez, when I was ten years old. And our house barely stood,
but my dad was the only worker and he supported us. We used to go hunting
pigs and whatever we needed to support everyone. You know, not only my
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October 7.2025
brothers and sisters in the house, got my cousins, my neighbors, and everybody
coming to us to eat dinner, relax; a real family environment. But we need to get
that back. And for the homes too, you know, those homes have a lot of love in
there.
You know, now days, we'll just try to get all that back to the people. So,
whatever homes they live in now, how they can get it up to Code. You know
how we can help them make it work. And his is the way we're looking at
whatever they built the house in, we stick with that code and just do our best,
and make sure it's safe for everyone.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Villegas, please go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Onishi for touching base on
where the inception of the requirements being with insurance companies, which
don't authentically reflect communities. One of my frustrations is based on
codes. Recently, we are requiring you build a fortress, as opposed to a shelter.
And having been raised in a coffee shack, you know, how we would call them
back in the day. They're all still standing,
The fortresses are the ones that end up, you know, the damage cost that much
more. So, I just want to recognize and voice my support. You know, we passed
a resolution that was something that felt like it shouldn't need to be said. But I
feel like this is another opportunity that it needs to be said because it's common
sense.
I'd love to hear what Kauai is doing because those are shelters; they are fully
functional, they provide opportunities for housing, and I'd hate to see us
continue to get ensnared in the racket of the insurance industry for what's
buildable and available.
So, I just want to thank my colleagues here on the Council for pointing that out
and personal history in living in what were some of the coziest, simplest, most
connected to sense of place and purpose and ohana. And we turned out okay,
right? I only got a couple glitches. It sure wasn't due to the coffee shack. So,
I'll yield at that.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. Council Member Hustace are you
ready to wrap up and move forward? I have a couple things to say. Or do you
want to discuss this conversation more?
MR. HUSTACE: Could I ask a couple questions first?
CHR. KAGIWADA: Yes, go ahead, please.
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MR HUSTACE: Thank you. Thank you, Acting Director, appreciate your
time this afternoon. Do you think we'd be able to get a snapshot of building
permits and timelines for different types of permits in the next two weeks.
MR. AZEVEDO: Yes. We're already working on that. You know, we are
rolling. So, you should get it back.
MR. HUSTACE: So we should get a communication within two weeks, thank
you. Appreciate that, Acting Director. And then, Director Nakagawa, just one
last question, since it's called out in your submittal here, if that's alright?
And this speaks to —because you mentioned Director on, you know, status quo
budget, but at the same time, you mentioned in 2022, there was a cost estimate
for build -out of our County facilities of $4.3 million. If we are still maintaining
the status quo but we have that need and demand for office space for staff
spaces, is that still going to be on pause for the foreseeable future, or how do we
kind of work that into our equations?
MS. NAKAGAWA: Sure. Just let me clarify the build -out cost. So, in 2022,
this same idea recommendation was put forward. That build -out cost was for
space necessary for a Building Department at the time. So, extra space that
would be needed, specifically for that; not all County space. We are doing a
space study at the moment. It's taking a little longer than we had hoped, but it
should be done by the end of the year. And that is something that we are
looking forward to being able to give us better information to plan ahead and be
more proactive in space needed.
We are reactionary at the moment. As things come out we are looking for
additional space. So, we are looking to this study to tell us a little more about
our actual space requirements in the future, as well as looking at our lease space
internally right now and looking if there are any efficiencies that can be made or
consolidations that can be made to save money, and also utilize space that we do
have.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Director, appreciate that. But that speaks to the
point you made earlier about that space study, that analysis that we get
forthcoming will have a cost estimate in terms of what we pursue, right? We
consolidate pieces, cut leases, extend leases.
MS. NAKAGAWA: Yeah. I mean, I think we all can see that we are growing.
We're continuing to grow, we need space. We are built -out in many of our
areas. So, it is an issue that we will need to solve in the very near future. And
today, we are looking at lease spaces, which is costing us a lot.
MR. HUSTACE: Right. Thank you, Director. Thanks Chair.
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CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you very much, Council Member Hustace. So,
just a couple things. I'm also hesitant to support this proposition going forward
given the costs, the additional staff requirements when we are struggling to hire
for all the opened positions we will have, the additional space requirements
when we're struggling to house all of our departments as they are. And hearing
from the Acting Director that maybe this isn't the way to go at this time.
I am very supportive of the Building Codes Commission. And I think Council
Member Kierkiewicz alluded to this before, and maybe you know, Council
Member Hustace. But if we were to not want to go ahead with separating out
the Building Department, but we still want to go ahead with the Building Codes
Commission, I believe that Council Member Kierkiewicz stated that maybe we
would not need to go the way of a Charter for that purpose. Do you have any
additional information on that? Maybe Clerk's Office or Corporation Counsel.
Is this something you would have information on? Okay, Corporation Counsel.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Renee Schoen came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SCHOEN: Renee Schoen.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, yes. So, if we were to just want to go ahead
with establishing a Building Codes Commission, in lieu of this whole package
with breaking out a Building Department, but just a commission itself, would
that need to be a Charter proposal, or could we do that in another way?
MS. SCHOEN: I think you could do that via a Code amendment. There are
other boards established by codes.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you very much, I appreciate that. So, at this
time, I'm more interested in that aspect of it, I guess I'd say, than the breaking
out of the department just because of additional costs and the ability to actually
do a good job there and the recommendation of the Acting Director. So, where
would you like to go with this?
Motion to Postpone: Mr. Hustace moved to postpone Bill 68, Draft 3, to
October 21, 2025. Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Just a note on that, just to give you some
time to think about these numbers; process them, and that additional information
from our Building Division; and of the permitting timeline, and all that kind of
snapshot. So, hope to get just a little more information. But I really appreciate the
conversation and understand as we go through this. So, thank you for your
consideration.
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CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. Anybody else on the proposed
postponement? Alright, seeing none, all those in favor please say "aye." Any
opposed?
Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Bill 68, Draft 3, to October 21, 2025,
to Postpone: was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kagiwada — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz —1.
Excused: None.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Alright. Please move on to our final item for today, Bill 90.
Bill 90: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE XIII, SECTION 13-8, OF THE
CHARTER OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAI`I (2024 EDITION), RELATING
TO TERMS OF OFFICE AND APPOINTMENT OF DEPARTMENT HEADS
Repeals the requirement that the Mayor appoint department heads within 30 days
of taking office, and within 60 days of any vacancy occurring during the Mayor's
term of office.
Reference: Comm.515
Intr. by: Council Member Onishi
Motion to Approve: Mr. Onishi moved to recommend passage of Bill 90 on first
reading. Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Onishi.
MR. ONISHI: Madame Chair, I would like to at this time, postpone Bill 90 to the
next meeting in two weeks, October 21, 2025.
Motion to Postpone: Mr. Onishi moved to postpone Bill 90, to October 21, 2025.
Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Do you want to say anything more about that?
MR. ONISHI: I'm just asking for support.
CHR. KAGIWADA: Anybody, on this issue? Seeing no lights, all those in favor
on the postponement, please say, "aye." Any opposed?
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Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Bill 90 to October 21, 2025,
to Postpone: was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas,
and Chair Kagiwada — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz — 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. KAGIWADA: With that, we come to the end of our committee meeting.
The time is 2:27 p.m. Thank you.
ADJOURN- Seeing no further business, Chair Kagiwada adjourned the meeting at
MENT: 2:27 p.m.
Approved:
Ak. �
M . enn KagiwvU, Chair
Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
JK/dt
(Date)
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