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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2025/10/21 (2024-2026)Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs 2011 Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii October 21, 2025 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 10:01 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Chair Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. James E. Hustace, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member Absent & Excused: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of FROM THE business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) CHR. KAGIWADA: Alright. Thank you so much. Mr. Clerk, can go ahead and get started with Resolution 345-25. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. GOEAC-20 October 21, 2025 Res. 345-25: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE OF HAWAI`I, DEPARTMENT OF LAND AND NATURAL RESOURCES, DIVISION OF FORESTRY AND WILDLIFE, FOR MUTUAL AID AND PUBLIC SAFETY COORDINATION Authorizes the Hawaii Fire Department to enter into a mutual aid agreement with the Department of Land and Natural Resources, Division of Forestry and Wildlife, to establish clear working protocols for resource sharing, unified command structures, and coordinated responses in the event of wildfires that exceed either department's individual capacity. Reference: Comm.547 Intr. by: Council Member Kagiwada (B/R) Motion to Approve: Mr. Hustace moved to recommend adoption of Res. 345-25. Seconded by Mr. Onishi. CHR. KAGIWADA: I believe we have Chief Todd over in Hilo. Chief, if you want to come up and just give us a little bit of information about this resolution, we'd love to hear from you. There he is. Good morning Chief, can you please introduce yourself and give us a little bit of information about this resolution? (Note: At this time, HFD Chief Kazuo Todd came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. TODD: Introduction, Kazuo Todd, Fire Chief of the Hawaii Fire Department (HFD). And as for the resolution, I'm just looking to update our Memorandum of Agreement with the Department of Land and Natural Resources, Division of Forestry and Wildlife (DOFAW). We have an existing one, however, this particular agreement is 95 percent the same. We just added, I think it's line 14 or something like that, that would allow us to also send personnel from the Hawaii Fire Department with DOFAW to the Northwestern Compact to large complex fires in the mainland for training purposes. So, pretty much it's word-for-word, the existing agreement. We just added the section in there that allows us to cooperate and use their department as a vehicle to send our personnel off for training. CHR. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. I think that might be Number 5), it looks like. Okay, ob, line 14). MR. TODD: Point 14). Page 2 GOEAC-20 October 21, 2025 CHR. KAGIWADA: Point 14). Sorry, just trying to find it here. Okay, several a) through e). Okay, great. Does anybody have any questions for the Chief or comments on this resolution? Seeing none, just checking over there in Hilo. Okay, all those in favor of sending Resolution 345-25 to Council with a favorable recommendation, please say "aye." Any opposed? Vote on Res. 345-25: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 345-25 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder and Kierkiewicz — 2. Excused: None. CHR. KAGIWADA: Next item, please. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 68: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE VI OF THE CHARTER OF THE (Draft 3) COUNTY OF HAWAI`I (2024 EDITION), RELATING TO THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A DEPARTMENT OF BUILDING Establishes a new Department of Building with the authority to regulate building and construction -related activities; creates a Director of Building position appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the Council; and establishes a Building Codes Commission to advise the Mayor, Council, and Director on building and construction -related matters. Reference: Comm.376.6 Intr. by: Council Members Kierkiewicz and Hustace Postponed: July 22, August 5 and 19, and October 7, 2025 (Note: There is a motion by Council Member Kierkiewicz, seconded by Council Member Hustace, to recommend passage of Bill 68, as amended, on first reading.) CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. So, we already have a motion on the floor. Council Member Hustace. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. We've had a number of discussions about Bill 68 here and the establishment of a Department of Building. Page 3 GOEAC-20 October 21, 2025 Council Member Kierkiewicz is unable to join us today. So I just wanted to gauge from the members, their sense and temperature on this discussion; where it's been particularly with our last meeting. I want to mahalo, Director Nakagawa, for providing us some figures that give us a sense of cost and impact going forward for this sort of discussion. That documentation, that letter also gives us an idea for our space requirements in the County; facility needs. And that's, I think, another conversation that we need to have at length going forward, not necessarily tied directly with the Department of Building, but at large. You know we have a need, and we see a need for space within the County for staff and staffing purposes. So, you know, take that into consideration when it comes to this. But within that letter we also see, you know, the salary and wage increase for separating out individuals from the Department of Public Works (DPW) and within the Planning Department, to establish and centralize a Department of Building for the purpose of really streamlining our permitting process. So taking into consideration all these pieces have costs associated with it, of course inherently and really trying to find a method that we can streamline our permitting process. We are hearing conversations and I want to mahalo, the Department of Public Works, for providing some data and information on their processing of permits. And we're looking to kind of help move that along. So, this is really that conversation about really streamlining; bringing those pieces within the Planning Department; within the Department of Public Works into a single entity for the purpose of improving our systems. So, just wanted to gauge from the members here what your thoughts are on the different pieces of this. Things that are challenging for you or things that you kind of see within it that bring potential to the County. So, thank you, Chair. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you for that good summary, Council Member. And would anybody like to weigh in or ask any more questions on this bill? Council Member Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you, Council Member Hustace. I initially was, you know, very interested in this idea because I think there is some merit to separating those two functions out. However, given the significant costs, I think now is not the right time for it given all of our other financial challenges. But I still really like that commission idea in there. So, I think I would love to see that come forward as a separate bit, and perhaps put the Department of Building idea on ice for a little bit. That would be my temperature check. Page 4 GOEAC-20 October 21.2025 CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Very similar to Council Member Galimba, very intrigued with the concept. I think there's a potential. But the price tag right now I think is pretty concerning, especially when we are looking at cost escalations across the board with various expenses for the County. So, that I think is kind of the deal breaker, given that we're talking multiple millions of dollars right now. I will also say that I did review the data from DPW in terms of the processing times and whatnot. I think, you know, we have seen improvements. And part of that is due to the implementation of recommendations that were in the audit from last year, including particularly hiring more clerks to move things through. And so, there's still several other actions from that audit and the recommended solutions that were put forth in that. But I think we could give some time to see how it worked out and see if those improvements continue to expedite the process and make it easier for folks to interact with the Building Department, DPW. So, I'm kind of hesitant about moving forward with this now, just because of that price tag being first and foremost. I also liked the commission, though. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member Kimball. Anybody else. Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, it's something that I strongly support as a concept. And I also share in the belief that there's wisdom in commission to support, and it is ideal, I think, to separate them out. I think it would make DPW a more manageable division. And Building, it just makes sense, but I share the concerns about the price tag of it right now. If for no other reason than the current price tag for our Wastewater and many of the other projects that we have to get moving forward and implemented. So, I am leery about the movement in this direction at this time. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Anybody else? Over in Hilo? Go ahead, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I mean, initially, like is said, the thing about this is you know, how does this break apart? Does it become Building by itself; and then Traffic Facilities Management like what they have on Oahu; Highways, that kind of thing. So, interested. I'm not closed to the idea. You know, but over the weekend, I had a thought, what would be the metrics of success for splitting the division apart? You know, I'm assuming the answer would be, streamline permitting times. Page 5 GOFAC-20 October 21, 2025 But to the makers or to the department, I mean, whoever, what would be the metrics of success? We spend $6.5 million to stand up a new department and break apart the existing Building Division. What is the metrics of success, and is there anything that points us in that direction of, this is what we know will happen if we do so. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Hustace, do you have any feedback at this time? Not at this time, okay. Anybody else have comments or want to weigh in and give some feedback to the makers? Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: I continue to be in support of this bill, just because of the sheer size of the Department of Public Works currently. Good question though, from Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder regarding what the success would look like, because we're doing this for a reason. And we know that the Building Division has not just been problematic in this County, but across other counties as well. And we've seen the shift in some counties to what this bill is proposing. I think for me, I'd like a better analysis of the Financial Impact. I think there are duplicative numbers here in terms of rent or even in terms of staff. So, I'm not convinced that this is the most accurate financial analysis that we could be provided at this time. But with that, I'll yield. Thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else? No, okay. I'll just weigh in for a minute. I also similarly think the price tag is a little much given our other obligations at this time. I also was initially excited to delve into this possibility because I thought one of the things we talked about was; it would mean that DPW is responsible for construction and contracts, and things like that would still have somebody with an engineering license heading that, and maybe the other part wouldn't need that. That was kind of, I think, some of the initial discussion we had was that there are parts of the current larger DPW right now that don't need that oversight. But that seems to have not really materialized in the other discussions. It seems like people who still want to eliminate the engineering license for the DPW Director are still very much supportive of that, even if we were to break out this part of it. So, that initial kind of reason I was very intrigued no longer seems to be relevant. But I am super, you know, excited about exploring the commission further. I think that would be very helpful. So, look forward to that, understanding that it is a very big department and it does seem very unwieldy at times. Page 6 GOEAC-20 October 21, 2025 Maybe to Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder's points, there's more work that could be done to see which parts really should be together in a group and which parts should be together in a group on the other side. So, anyway, at this point I don't think I am supportive of it as written in Draft 3. Thank you. Anything else, Council Member Hustace? MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I appreciate the feedback from my colleagues, getting that temperature check and understanding your thoughts and needs in seeing this forward, and of course, the complications we have with the cost of things. I do want to echo Chair Inaba to the point that, you know, pulling members out and pulling staff out from actually two departments to stand up on its own. You know, maybe the numbers look a little bit differently that way. I did ask Director Nakagawa, if we continue to have this conversation, what that really looks like, when we're pulling people out from the Planning Department and DPW to stand up on its own. Of course, there are going to be supportive staff that is going to be part of that price tag going forward. But I'd love to leave this in Committee for the possibility of some discussion down the road. So, motion to postpone to the Call of the Chair. Vote on Motion Mr. Hustace moved to postpone Bill 68, Draft 3, to the to Postpone: Call of the Chair. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried (Approved) by the following roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada — 7. Noes: Committee Member Onishi —1. Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz —1. Excused: None. MR. HENRICKS: The motion carries. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Alright. Please move on to Bill 89. Page 7 GOEAC-20 October 21, 2025 Bill 89: AMENDS CHAPTER 7, ARTICLE 1, OF THE HAWAI`I COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO THE APPOINTMENT OF THE CIVIL DEFENSE ADMINISTRATOR Adds a new section requiring the Civil Defense Administrator have a minimum of three years of responsible administrative experience in emergency management, disaster planning, homeland security, or public safety services management. In the event of a vacancy, the Mayor may convene a selection advisory panel consisting of the Fire Chief and Chief of Police to evaluate qualified applicants. Reference: Comm.514 Intr. by: Council Member Kierkiewicz Motion to Approve: Mr. Hustace moved to recommend passage of Bill 89 on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR. KAGIWADA: Council Member Hustace. MR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. In respect of Council Member Kierkiewicz, the maker not being here, motion to postpone Bill 89 to our November 4w meeting. Motion to Postpone: Mr. Hustace moved to postpone Bill 89 to November 4, 2025. Seconded by Ms. Villegas. CHR. KAGIWADA: Any discussion? Yes, Council Member Onishi. MR. ONISHI: I would really want to have a little bit of a discussion about this, because I do have some, maybe, ideas to add on. So, to me, it would be a great discussion just to have right now instead of waiting another two more weeks to have a meeting to discuss this. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you for your input. Anybody else on the motion to postpone? Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: I wouldn't mind making a couple of comments in consideration before we postpone. Withdraw Motion Mr. Hustace withdrew his motion to postpone. to Postpone: Ms. Villegas withdrew her second. CHR. KAGIWADA: Okay. With that, I will go back to Council Member Onishi for comments on the main motion. MR. ONISHI: You know, I like the idea. But dealing with Administrators in the past, I think one other thing that needs to be required is better communication Page 8 GOEAC-20 October 21, 2025 within the communities, and also like within Administrative Executive and Legislative branches. Like this past tsunami, there was a lot of questions that was brought up. And I did have them come to my community meetings within Keaukaha. And I guess the explanations that were being provided —like a lot of the attendees, I don't think they were really satisfied on the answers. So, we need someone there that can really explain because when they explain the situation, people need to understand, and when you say, there were hiccups. It's like, what's the hiccups? So, you need to explain why this situation like traffic, like the delaying; or why did the officers do certain things. And so, that's why I would like to see something here as part of the requirements of the Administrator. I yield. Thank you, CHR. KAGIWADA: Alright, thank you Council Member Onishi. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: I don't know if we have somebody from Corporation Counsel around, or maybe this is actually, just a question the Clerk can respond to. It seems to me that Section 7-1 or the proposed new Section 7-1-3, Item (c) there, it's probably unnecessary to spell out in the Charter that if the Mayor wanted to convene an advisory panel, they need to be given that authority expressly. I think the Mayor has the authority to do that without that being expressly identified in the Charter. One of the reasons we may not want it in the Charter is that I think if it's here, it presents the possibility that it would have to be Sunshine Law Board, in which case, you know, you're talking about important personnel decisions. There's going to be privacy and potential conflict there. So, I would actually recommend removing that clause. Do like the overall concept, in general. I also want to express the interest since we're in here and tinkering. The first clause of Section 7-1-2, which you know, we have these two statements where the head of the Civil Defense Agency is the Mayor, and yet during an emergency, the Administrator has all the duties and responsibilities of the Mayor. Item (b), I'd love to clean that up and just say, who's in charge when and make the language clearer. I think there's some historic reasons for why that's in there that way. In my mind, if you have the person who has the expertise in dealing with emergencies in charge during emergencies. So, thank you, I yield. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Inaba. Page 9 GOEAC-20 October 21, 2025 MR. INABA: Thank you. I'm trying to think if we have, I believe, Assistant Corporation Counsel Yoshimoto in Hilo Chambers. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Aright. MR. INABA: Alright. Mr. Yoshimoto, as you make your way up, Section 7-1-3(b). I'm trying to understand, because it seems like we're shifting language from above and inserting it here. But it says that the Administrator shall be appointed by the Mayor and may be removed by the Mayor, and that they have to be hired according to provisions of Chapter 76 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS). And I'm not sure if there's any conflict with that language there. Normally, if it's an appointment by the Mayor, it's pretty clear they're appointed and can be removed. But then this is saying, we are going to follow Civil Service laws. So, I'm trying to understand where the clear line is there. (Note: At this time, Assistant Corporation Counsel J Yoshimoto came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. YOSHIMOTO: Good morning J Yoshimoto, Assistant Corporation Counsel. Thank you for that question. You know, looking at the amendment this morning, it looks like Chapter 76 reference is deleted of course, in Section 7-1-2, Subsection (2), and then reinserted in Section 7-1-3 (b). I'm not sure what the practical effect of having the Mayor appoint and yet be subject to Chapter 76 at this time. I do know that Ms. Schoen had worked on this with Council Member Kierkiewicz. So, I would prefer to consult with her and get back to the Council as far as addressing that question. MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. I just want to make sure we're not kind of operating in two worlds there. Just a clear appointment and removal world, and then Civil Service law. And generally, I would say I'm in support here. I think I do have concerns. At the same time, you know, having a Civil Defense Administrator who could be fresh. Like if we're going to do this clear appointment and removal, and the Mayor chooses to appoint someone new who may not have experience operating our Civil Defense here, you know, during times of emergency things kind of need to be ready to roll. So, happy to hear more conversation when Council Member Kierkiewicz is back. But yes, if we could get some real clear guidance on that Subsection (b) and what specifically we're talking about when we're talking about HRS 76 and the hiring practices. With that, I yield. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anybody else? Over in Hilo. Okay, with that, would you like to make your motion? Sorry, Council Member Kimball. Page 10 GOEAC-20 October 21, 2025 MS. KIMBALL: I just want to check, is that Administrator Magno in the chambers there? Could I just have the Administrator weigh in on this concept before we move on today? (Note: At this time, Civil Defense Administrator Talmage Magno, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MAGNO: Good morning Council, Talmage Magno, Civil Defense Administrator. Thanks for hearing me. I was kind of surprised to see this bill come up. I think it stemmed from a conversation that I had with Councilwoman Kierkiewicz a while ago. Pretty much, this is the way under the Kim Administration that I got hired. He brought in the Fire Chief, Police Chief, and the Acting Administrator for Civil Defense as a panel basically, to make sure that I had the experience and knowledge to be able to work in Emergency Management for the County of Hawaii. So, I think she's kind of replicating that with this proposal. Then to follow-up on that, in the recent hiring of the Maui County Administrator, they organized a panel of all the Administrators to go over the applicants, and then we gave our best candidate suggestion to the Mayor for his selection. So, I think, you know, that's kind of precedent of what's occurring here as far as adding a little bit more credence to the Emergency Manager as far as the vetting process to make sure that they can do the job. Thank you. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Anything else, Council Member Kimball? MS. KIMBALL: Administrator, can you speak to the reason historically for the language in the Charter and in the Code for that matter with respect to the head of the Civil Defense Agency being the Mayor. But then the Civil Defense Administrator having the duties and responsibilities of the Mayor during an emergency. Can you speak to why that language is there like that? MR. MAGNO: I believe that stems from the way the law, Chapter 127A (HRS) is written where the Mayor is actually the Civil Defense Director for the County, and then you have the administrators who run the operation. MS. KIMBALL: Okay, got it. Alright, I'll look at that Chapter of the HRS. Thank you. That's all, I'll yield Chair. CHR. KAGIWADA: Okay, anybody else? Alright. Council Member Hustace, would you like to make your motion now? Page 11 GOEAC-20 October 21, 2025 Vote on Motion Mr. Hustace moved to postpone Bill 89 to November 4, 2025. to Postpone: Seconded by Ms. Galimba and carried by the following (Approved) voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Hustace, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Chair Kagiwada — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz —1. Excused: None. CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. Bill 90, please. Bill 90: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE XIII, SECTION 13-8, OF THE CHARTER OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAI`I (2024 EDITION), RELATING TO TERM OF OFFICE AND APPOINTMENT OF DEPARTMENT HEADS Repeals the requirement that the Mayor appoint department heads within 30 days of taking office, and within 60 days of any vacancy occurring during the Mayor's term of office. Reference: Comm.515 Intr. by: Council Member Onishi Postponed: October 7, 2025 (Note: There is a motion by Council Member Onishi, seconded by Council Member Galimba, to recommend passage of Bill 90 on first reading.) CHR. KAGIWADA: Thank you. There's already a motion on the floor. Council Member Onishi, would you like to kick us off? Withdraw Bill 90: Mr. Onishi announced the withdrawal of Bill 90. CHR. KAGIWADA: Alright. Thank you so much. With that, seeing no further business, our meeting is adjourned at 10:33 a.m. Page 12 GOEAC-20 ADJOURN- MENT: Approved: October 21, 2025 Seeing no further business, Chair Kagiwada adjourned the meeting at 10:33 a.m. Ms. Jenn giw ,Chair Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs 0MIrl ►111 12015 (Date) Page 13