HomeMy WebLinkAboutCOM 0334.045 2024-2026COUNT Y CLERK
Honorable members of the Hawaii County Council, COUNTY OF HAWAli
I am submitting testimony in opposition to Bill 64, which would el gg2ifga Tthejne2tl fgSt:tRd1DPW Director
to hold an engineering license. You have heard a lot of testimony relating to this bill from the
engineering community, all of which has been in opposition. Take note of that fact. I am a licensed civil
engineer on the Kona side and I attended the last committee meeting on the bill, provided testimony,
and was surprised at how little our engineering voices mattered. Please know that we are not opposed
to it for financial reasons relating to our own businesses or because of a collective effort to glorify or
promote the engineering profession -in general. Our opposition, quite simply, stems from the fact that
we have a deeper understanding of the innerworkings of the department and the state's licensing
requirements for practicing engineers than any of you could ever hope to have. I do not mean this to be
offensive. You all have different sets of skills and insights which have doubtless lead you to succeed in
other arenas or you wouldn't be reading this testimony in the first place. We engineers however have
devoted our working lives to the world of private and public works design and construction and many of
us interface with DPW on a daily basis. It's not often a bill like this comes along and gets us out of our
caves but when there are this many voices from practicing engineers telling you this is a bad idea, I
implore you to listen.
Following the committee meeting, I thought a lot about the reasons and justifications for changing the
requirements for DPW director and wrote down my responses and thoughts to each of the ones I
thought were most common among those of you in support of Bill 64:
"Past DPW Directors have been licensed and have not been good at managing people..."
• The captain of a ship had better know how to run the sails as well as they run the crew.
Managing people is indeed a separate skillset from engineering, there's absolutely no doubt
about it, but the best managers also know how to do every element of the work in any
profession. Bill Gates started out writing computer code. Jerry Jones, owner of the Dallas
Cowboys, won a D1 national football championship as a running back and team co -captain of
the Arkansas Razorbacks. You have to know how to do the work before you can manage a team
to do it.
• While this is an important point in the discussion; the logic here is flawed. It was not the fact
that past directors were licensed that made them ineffective. If your car won't start and you
take it to a mechanic who tells you that you need a new battery, only to discover later that the
real issue was just a loose battery cable, your first thought isn't "gee, I wish I'd asked my
attorney to fix my car instead." Going down this path of reasoning is exactly the same and
sounds as silly to us in the engineering community as the mechanic example sounds to you folks.
"We'll be fine because a deputy will be required to be licensed..."
• The proposed job qualifications are too vague and too thin. Engineering licensure is a
MINIMUM accreditation within the profession. It ensures that other engineers have vetted
them so that folks outside the profession, such as yourselves, will not likely be fooled into
thinking that any of us are more qualified than we actually are. It is, however just the basics.
And we need, at a MINIMUM, the basics from a person in this role.
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• Remember that the director is the ultimate authority within the department and therefore has
authority over their deputies. A non -engineer in a supervisory role of a department which both g
carries out and reviews engineering tasks.is simply illegal based on HRS licensing laws. Our
county code is also set up so that the Director has final say in all things relating to the
department. This, by definition, means that things like variances from the code, plan review for IA�p
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civil infrastructure projects, change orders and approvals for public works projects, are all
ultimately up to the director. An unlicensed individual in this role is therefore practicing
engineering without a license, which is illegal according to Hawaii's state licensing laws.
Deputies are in many cases HGEA union members of who have worked their way up through
years in the department and have much to lose if they are fired for insubordination. It is unfair
to place those employees in a position where they may be forced to choose between their
engineering judgement and losing theirjob, whose long term benefits are often the main reason
they stay in the first place. Remember that these union positions are often lower paying in the
short term but the long term benefits of a stable income after retirement are the real pay-off.
The system incentivizes doing what you are told and agreeing with your superiors. Directors on
the other hand don't necessarily fall into this category and have a lot less to lose long-term,
allowing them to make tough decisions for the right reasons
"it has been difficult to find good candidates. Why haven't any of you applied?..."
I have been asked to apply twice but personally, I do not feel that I am qualified yet, either
through managerial experience nor through engineering experience. This role requires both, as
several council members pointed out already with regard to DPW & DEM Directors past. This
role is best suited to someone in the second half of their career and the compensation package
needs to reflect that.
• Where is the job posting listed? I did an internet search on the county'sjob posting website and
the position isn't on there. It's not on any other website I could find either, nor is it in the
newspapers.
• It is the mayor's responsibility to find qualified candidates. It is not the county council's
responsibility to water down the qualifications to let an unqualified individual into the role. As
far as I can tell, the administration has done nothing other than call engineers they know and
personally invite applicants to apply. This role should be advertised statewide or nationally if
need -be. Hawaii is unique but engineering principles and good management practices are
universal.
There are good, qualified people out there, they just need to get word and they need to be
compensated fairly. It makes more sense that the role be filled by an engineer from a different
island. There are good engineers on Oahu who would see it as an opportunity for career
growth, or as a way to get out of their current role in a larger firm and start new. Most of the
firms here are small and would be completely upended if their principal were to leave. An off -
island candidate by contrast may not have that issue and would have fewer conflicts of interest
stepping into the director role. To attract a qualified candidate from off -island however, we
should be prepared to offer a relocation or signing bonus and perhaps some other incentives to
pull them over here.
OK, enough with my whining. Let me offer my thoughts on what should be tried before we go with
what 1 see as the scorched earth approach to solving the issue.
Rescind Bill 64 and replace it.with a bill requiring all director positions within the county to be
compensated commensurate with what they would otherwise receive in a similar private
practice role. We pay prevailing wages for laborers and skilled tradesmen, it is not difficult to do
some research and base director salaries on upper -management level compensation packages
for, in this instance, a large engineering firm in Hawaii.
Work with the salary commission to determine whether there are other ways to attract
qualified candidates besides salary alone. A relocation/signing bonus, guaranteed salary for the
non -practicing period following the end of employment, a guaranteed contract term? Surely
these things should be explored first.
I'm not asking that a DPW Director's compensation package be so substantial as to fool someone
into thinking they will get rich taking on the position, but at least meet our professionals half way
and we will show you how community -minded we truly are. Civil engineering... Civil, Civilization.
Our very profession is to design the things that we need to have a functioning society. There isn't
one of us in the profession that doesn't consider the public's well-being and the future of this
community. Our hearts are in this thing. We've devoted our lives to it but if the county doesn't
even offer an income which would allow for the purchase of an average home on Moku 0 Keawe,
we obviously need to do a betterjob of showing you why you need us as much as we need you and I
for one hope I'm doing my part here to change that.
Aloha to all of you and a heartfelt mahalo for your service, and for listening. You probably deserve a
raise as well after listening to all of thislll
With aloha,
Palani Greenwell, PE