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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2025/12/02 (2024-2026) Committee on Finance 24th Session Hawai`i County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii 96720 December 2, 2025 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at ORDER: 1:00 p.m., in the Council Chambers,Hilo,by Mr. James E. Hustace, Acting • Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. James E. Hustace, Vice Chair Ms.Michelle M. Galimba,Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba,Member(came in later) Ms. Jenn Kagiwada,Member(came in later) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz,Member Ms. Heather Kimball,Member Mr. Dennis "Fresh" Onishi,Member(came in later) Ms. Rebecca Villegas,Member Absent&Excused: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Chair STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) • ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. Res. 396-25: ACCEPTS A DONATION OF PROFESSIONAL SERVICES TO THE DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION FOR RESURFACING WORK AT LINCOLN PARK TENNIS COURTS The donation from the United States Tennis Association has an estimated value of$145,463. Reference: Comm. 617 Intr.by: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend adoption of Res. 396-25. Seconded by Mr. Onishi. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: We have Corporation Counsel Deputy J. Yoshimoto here to walk us through a little bit. And there's also a request here as well. FC-24 December 2,2025 • (Note: At this time,Assistant Corporation Counsel J. Yoshimoto came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. YOSHIMOTO: Good afternoon, Council Members. Assistant Corporation Counsel J. Yoshimoto. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure the Council to the memo on the request to withdraw. I can explain if the Committee Members want an explanation,but short version is we're not going forward now. Hopefully, we can go forward in the future. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Would you like us to hold this in Committee then or just remove it from the table altogether? MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yes. Withdraw. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Okay. Withdraw Res. 396-25: Ms. Kierkiewicz announced the withdrawal of Res. 396-25. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Yoshimoto. And let the record reflect that we're joined by Council Members Onishi, Inaba, and Kagiwada at this time. Thank you,Corporation Counsel, for that. Let's move on to the next item please. Res. 397-25: AUTHORIZES THE OFFICE OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT TO AWARD GRANTS FOR PROGRAMS ADDRESSING HOUSING AND HOMELESSNESS Proposes 12 grant awards to 8 different nonprofit organizations for a total of $6,000,000 in funding derived from Residential Tier Two property tax revenues, pursuant to Section 19-90(f) of the Hawai`i County Code. Reference: Comm. 618 Intr. by: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend adoption of Res. 397-25. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: We have Office of Housing here. If you would like to come up and join us at the front. And Members,if you have any particular questions,please let me know. Office of Housing, would you like to start us off here with the resolution? That would be fantastic. (Note: At this time,Housing Administrator Kehaulani M. Costa came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. COSTA: Hi. Kehau Costa, Office of Housing,Housing Administrator. Here we are again. I can't believe it's been a year. So quick. This was one of Page 2 FC-24 December 2,2025 our first Council actions that we took as the new Housing Administrator last year. We're here again for our next round of awards and hope that we seek favorable approval of these recommendations. I have Michelle Hiraishi. She's one of our Housing Specialist. She's prepared a short overview of our recommendations for awards. And so,Michelle, if you can take it from here. (Note: At this time, Housing Program Oversight Director Michelle Hiraishi came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. HIRAISHI: Thank you,Administrator Costa. Aloha, Council. My name is Michelle Hiraishi. I am the Program Oversight Manager for the homelessness and housing fund(HHF) under the Office of Housing and Community Development. So we're here today to present, as Kehau mentioned, our year four award nominations for your approval. I wanted to thank you for the opportunity to present this to share just a little bit of information. I also wanted to take a quick moment to thank some of the Council Members that did reach out to us at Office of the Housing to have individual discussions for a little bit to gain further understanding of the funds and the administration of the funds. From those discussions,you'll see we had some additional information that we provided to you today and you should have gotten that in the form of these supplemental homelessness and housing fund documents to support Resolution 397-25. And I'll be referencing these documents throughout this presentation. So in July 2025, our consultants, SAS Services,provided a recommendations report to the Office of Housing and to the Council. And in that recommendations report one of the statements that they made, I'd like to read it just briefly, a cutout from that report. The statement is, "Given the long-term nature of the homelessness crisis,building a sustainable infrastructure and expanding the capacity of County and nonprofit providers must be a priority." So I say again, and I've said this before,kudos to our County and to our County Council for establishing this homelessness and housing fund as a way to build the County's capacity. Also from that report,there was recommendations that they gave to us to administer the funds going forward. So we've incorporated most of those recommendations into our year four approach. That includes clarifying the purpose of the fund, focusing on short-term twelve-month projects that can have a bigger impact during that grant period, addressing the geographic inequities, and approaching this year's funding using a multipronged approach that I'll talk about again a little bit more. As Kehau mentioned,we were here recently in January 2025 to present to Council year three awards. During that session, Office of Housing,we received lots of feedback from the Council. We have incorporated that feedback and summarized it in, you'll see in your Addendum No. 1 in the additional packet information. Page 3 FC-24 December 2,2025 In building year four then,we incorporated the consultants' recommendations, we incorporated community input, we were mindful of our Mayor's priorities;we incorporated Council feedback, and we significantly then revised our approach to getting the year four funding out the door. We made a more equitable geographic distribution island wide; we put more emphasis on organizations leveraging of outside dollars and use of other funds; we clarified fiscal definitions, we clarified fiscal rules, and we also clarified the allowability of expenditures. We developed a more strategic approach to maximize this investment and we entered year four with a total available funds of$12,225,000. You'll see how we budgeted these funds in the addendum two from the additional packet. Only 8.8 percent of $1,078,000 did we budget for administrative costs. In administrative costs include some data management under our new data system. We also budgeted$5,147,000 for five contracted essential services that the County needs to provide through RFP (Request for Proposal)procurement process. Specifically,those five projects,the larger shelters in East Hawai`i and West Hawai`i, safe space overnight sleeping cot program in East Hawai`i and in West Hawaii; Clad the fifth project would be ❑permLlient supported housing project in a County facility in Kona. So those we are RFPing for separately. That leaves us with$6 million now to put out through their request for grant applications. To back up just a little bit, when we did our year four approach,rather than putting out the grant as any type of activity that a nonprofit wanted to provide, we made categories that were specific to services that we need. Our categories were outreach, short term housing and shelter,long term housing, and support programs. On July 23, 2025, Office of Housing and Community Development(OHCD) issued the year four homelessness and housing fund requests for grant applications (RFGA). In response to that RFGA, we received 23 applications requesting$18,386,937 in funding. All the applications were reviewed and scored through a comprehensive evaluation program. There was five evaluators on the committee. Each of those evaluators came with their own set of expertise, whether it was in homeless issues, in community services, in grants management, fiscal, even health. So, all those evaluators came together and individually scored the applications and then offered a nomination selection. OHCD then took that nomination selection and put it through even further factors. So,we looked at the feasibility and scalability of the project. We looked at the reliance of the project on homelessness and housing funds and how does that organization reach out to leverage other funds. We looked at the services that were offered to make sure that we weren't duplicating the same services in the same area, we looked to make sure there was geographical impact island wide. When known, we even looked at the past performance of the applicant. Page 4 FC-24 December 2,2025 Finally, we asked ourselves two very important questions. Does this project give us a good social return on our investment? And secondarily, if this project or service is not funded, what does that do to our community? So, after they went through all of these additional screenings, our list of award recommendations includes twelve projects across the island. But the nominated projects would support our strategic roadmap priorities one through six,they would be administered by eight different nonprofits. The nominees address three of the four RFGA categories. We did not choose to fund the shelter category because we're doing that again through RFP process. And we believe that this slate of 12 recommended rewards represents the most balanced allocation of resources,the most effective use of the funds to advance the County's strategic roadmap, and the department's overarching goal to keep homelessness rare,brief, and non- reoccurring. So, we hope for favorable approval of our resolution and I'm available for any questions that Council may have. Thank you so much. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you for that presentation and introduction here. Anyone would like to start us off here today? Council Member Onishi, please,the floor is yours. MR. ONISHI: I just want to say when I got to meet Keiko and Alison, it was great. You answered all my questions. It was great how you explained everything. I really appreciate all that and being offered to meet with you folks prior to coming to the Council. So, I basically got all my questions answered, so we're all good. Thank you. MS. HIRAISHI: Very good. And thank you for meeting with us. MR. ONISHI: Yeah,thank you. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Yes, thank you for meeting with me as well. I'm going to ask a few questions even though you answered some of them when we met,just for the public more than for me. But to just go back to the $5 million for County projects for shelters on east and west side, safe sleeping east and west side, and what was the third thing? MS. HIRAISHI: Permanent supportive housing in Kona in a County facility. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Thank you. The numbers that we're seeing of people experiencing homelessness on the island because I know equity is a big thing,but I want to be very clear where people who really need help are. So, can you give a little bit of information about the numbers and where they're located? Page 5 FC-24 December 2,2025 MS. HIRAISHI: I can speak to it. Thank you, Council Member, for that question. And thank you again for also meeting with us individually. I can tell you that we collect numbers not just homelessness and housing fund,but County wide,there is out of Mayor's Office, an executive assistant who is managing homeless. We collect a lot of numbers through the engagement hui of unsheltered folks. I can tell you that the latest numbers, the highest concentration tends to be Hilo side, followed by Kona side. But that has to do with unsheltered folks. MS. KAGIWADA: Right. And that I believe almost 60 percent of the unsheltered folks reside in the Hilo area for the entire island. MS. HIRAISHI: Yes. I believe you're right. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. So, I just want to be very clear,it's really important to have equity and that we get services to everywhere. But where the people are who need some of these services, a huge portion of them are in the Hilo area. Okay. Because that's an important balancing point along with I do also think if maybe there were more services in other places along the island maybe everybody wouldn't be concentrated in Hilo. So, it's a tricky balancing point but,yeah, I hope that you're keeping this front of mind as you're looking at equity and equity around the island. MS. HIRAISHI: Thank you. MS. KAGIWADA: In looking at this I do see where some of the funds were reduced because they are now in this other section. But also,just wondering about a couple other reductions kind of. I'm looking at last year's compared to this year's,it looks like BISAC (Big Island Substance Abuse Council) had its funding reduced about in half, is that correct? And Men of Pa'a did not get funded. MS. HIRAISHI: Men of Pa'a did not apply. MS. KAGIWADA: Did not apply. Okay. Well that's a reason that people don't get funded is sometimes they don't apply. That is true. And it looks like we're doing more funding for like Going Home and Hale Kipa. Is that correct? Is there anything you can share with us; you kind of gave the big shift but for these specific things,is there anything you can share? Okay. MS. HIRAISHI: So specifically for Hale Kipa,that is a West Hawai`i Youth Program and right now we're struggling to provide that service already. Salvation Army has East Hawai`i as you know. They don't feel like they have capacity, at least the last I understood, to expand to West Hawai`i. So Hale Kipa is a new player in that realm although they have been on island, especially here in Hilo, under other services. Page 6 FC-24 December 2,2025 MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, great. And as far as pretty large reductions and funding for HOPE Services and Salvation Army,is that because some of that moved over to this County project piece? MS. HIRAISHI: Yes. And even like HOPE Services, how they applied this year was a little bit different. They didn't do individual. They manage numerous individual shelters. They consolidated that application into one application and that didn't receive full funding. So, they approached it a little bit different also. But yes, there was a reduction in funding, and we really looked at partial funding across all the applications. We did let organizations know during our information sessions that the County was absolutely considering partial funding. You know, we had to weigh that balance too because often that will kick up the cost of an application. But we did let folks know that right up front that we're looking at and giving additional points to agencies that can leverage outside dollars. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, okay. So,I mean,understanding we just have a limited amount here. We just have to spread it around. But I know you're also struggling to balance with essential services that if we cut them too low then we might lose them as providers of those services. So tricky balancing. I appreciate all the work that you and your whole team put in for doing this. I think strategically it makes a lot of sense. I'm glad that you're following some of the guidance that was put out there from the study and everything. So I'm just thankful. I know in being part of our National Association of Counties (NACo) that I hear from other counties, and they actually provide most of these services themselves in county,right? I'd say the majority of counties do provide these services directly. And so we are a county that relies on these nonprofits to do the work in our community with some funding from us that other counties have full responsibility for putting out there. So,I do appreciate the work that you do and the work that the nonprofits do. And thank you for bringing this forward. I yield. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. MS. HIRAISHI: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. I just want to take a quick moment since you mentioned it,to call out the rest of the homelessness and housing fund team. Allison (Gardner),Wade, and Holly (Hreha). Holly is our own Dr. Data, PhD. Epidemiologist. I also wanted to call them out because one thing that you said triggered it, one of the hardest tasks that we had and that fell to Allison, was to make the call to the nonprofits that didn't get funded. That was very, very heavy conversations because again, 23 applications, all very solid awesome programs, awesome projects, we just can't fund them all. So that part was difficult. But again, we feel very confident in our final list. We feel like the services are island wide as much as we could. We tried to pick up additional things. Like I know there was a question on who's going to be doing outreach in Hilo side if we don't fund the applicant that applied for outreach in Hilo side. And I wanted to remind Council that this is just one little piece of all homeless service provisions in the homelessness and housing fund. So, outreach in Hilo is Page 7 FC-24 December 2,2025 still happening. It may not be happening under this funding. There's Going Home Hawai`i who's doing quite a bit under this funding to do outreach in the future to cover from some of the pukas now that are left from orgs that weren't funded. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you,Ms. Hiraishi. Over to Council Member Villegas,please. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah. Thank you for being here and lining this all up. It's a lot of money but it starts to feel like it will never be enough. So just to clarify; 23 organizations applied. MS. HIRAISHI: No. 23 applications. MS. VILLEGAS: Application not organization. MS. HIRAISHI: Not organizations. So several different organizations put in numerous applications. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. And I see 12 awards here; and how many organizations is that? MS. HIRAISHI: It's represented by eight organizations; nonprofits,that would manage these 12 projects. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. And I see the same names. And it's been no secret that I've had issues with many of these names and the lion's share of funding continuing to go to them and their programs with very little impact quite frankly is what I'm frustrated about. I see the Neighborhood Place of Puna's Family and Youth Outreach Program once again getting almost half a million dollars, and there was a lot of contention around that program and potential legal cases associated with it. So, no matter where we are on the island, we're seeing the challenges of our unhoused, whether or not they're kama`aina or people coming straight in off the plane. I just wanted to know where the data came from that indicates that 60 percent of the unhoused population are in Hilo? MS. HIRAISHI: So that data, again, is collected by the engagement hui. The engagement hui is a County wide program. It has numerous different nonprofit providers that contribute to that engagement. MS. VILLEGAS: Does Point in time count? MS. HIRAISHI: Yes. For example,point in time count. But they are constantly, that engagement hui island wide,is constantly putting real time data into the system. So,the numbers that come up are real time numbers. Page 8 FC-24 December 2,2025 MS. VILLEGAS: Based on who they can get to. And so probably to no fault of their own,but I know as a fact in my district they don't get everybody and the outreach doesn't happen as consistently for staffing reasons or what not,the west side does not get the focus and the authentic support. Therefore,the numbers are not accurate,but they're the best they can do at that time. So,I first off want to congratulate you on changing the paradigm here from organizations writing a wish list, creating a budget, and submitting it, and if they happen to be very savvy in navigating the system,they get the money. And your transition to stating what your needs are and then them essentially doing an RFP,right,is with creative thought processing and solution mindedness. Unfortunately, I see the same names, and I continue to get, I mean, somebody just sent me a report of a big drug bust here in Hilo at a HOPE Services homeless facility where they weren't getting outreach or management and there was no staff present and they weren't taking care of that space, and so which calls into line. I mean we also have this similar issue in Kona with the facilities. So it seems it's a chronic challenge and I can't place blame particularly but I can continue to call into question the leadership of these organizations and the utilization of this funding because I look at this much money and this much money split between the number of people that the point and time count continues to say are homeless on our streets, giving each one of these people money. At this point,if we're dealing with the same people, we're not being effective. And I have some concerns about this statement here in the Addendum 1; flights not allowable. Explicitly listed as a nonallowable cost per guidance of the County Council, and this was the program to fly people home, and I don't remember us saying that. In fact, the irony was pointed out when we approved$50,000 for Animal Control to fly dogs to the mainland to rehome them. So, I'm wondering for a little bit more clarity on that. MS. COSTA: In the last round of funding we were advised that under Chapter 2, personal individual benefits were not allowed. And so travel was not allowed under Chapter 2. So maybe that way incorrect,but I believe that was part of one of our Council meetings. Corporation Counsel responded at that time. But we could revisit it. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. So that was Corporation Counsel, not the County Council? MS. COSTA: Corporation Counsel at County Council,there was a question on the floor about travel and flights. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Can I ask Corporation Counsel now if they could come up and provide some clarification on that. And I empathize with you; you get told one thing and then you get told another thing, and the gift cards, and the this and the that. Unfortunately, these family reunification programs have been one of the Page 9 FC-24 December 2,2025 most successful means for us to—it was travel for the giving flights to the unhoused folks to be able to send them home. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Renee Schoen came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SCHOEN: Renee Schoen, Corporation Counsel trying to confer Kehau. I don't remember that,but I think in general we have said that anytime we are giving funding to non-profits or organizations that the funding should not be used for travel basically. For travel outside of the County because the funds should be used within the County. MS. VILLEGAS: I think that that should be reviewed. The state has a family reunification going home program. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Please, Council Member. MS. VILLEGAS: A little bit of latitude her, Chair. So,I think that really needs to be reviewed because that is cutting us off and that is taking us out at the knees. I know in Kona 808 Homeless Task Force sent 178 people home in a year. Just moving on because I know I'm out of time. My quick other question is the person who works in the Mayor's Office who handles the housing focus, is that Sharon Hirota? MS. COSTA: So Erin Samura is here today. She is the Executive Assistant to the Mayor for Office of Housing Community Development. She coordinates our homeless task force meetings at which time the engagement hui provides data for East and West Hawai`i outreach. MS. VILLEGAS: Ok great. And then I don't see Humanity Hale on here and I just wondering perhaps they didn't. MS. COSTA: No application. MS. VILLEGAS: No application. Okay. And no 808 Homeless Task Force either so. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thanks, Council Member. Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. Just as a follow-up regarding travel so that isn't guidance from the County Council. That is a kind of the direction we have gone with our Waiwai not to fund any travel or conferences for staff. So we do fund travel as part of our program, for example,to Special Olympics where that's the mission of the organization sending the kids to O`ahu to compete. That type of travel we do fund but not for training conferences. So I just wanted to clarify that. And then I will continue on with my question. Page 10 FC-24 December 2,2025 So I have a little bit of concern regarding what I think could be double dipping across awards from the same or to the same organizations. For example,in the case of HOPE Services there's the same lines for telecommunication. $2,500 to one application. $1,550 to another application. Lease monies for the same property here in Hilo across both applications. Not to say that the lease is not more than total of those two awards combined,but we need to have a better review on that prior to our next meeting. Same thing with insurance. Insurance based on what is being presented here in the awards summary is for five properties and it is the same five properties across the other one. So I'll throw that out there. Let's get a double-check on that prior to our Council hearing to see if we need to make any adjustments to that. For Neighborhood Place of Puna, same thing, telecommunications, $4,500 for one application, $5,800 for another. I don't think cellphones and ZOOM is that much. It is too much I think. There is perhaps some reductions that can happen there. Also, do we know what the software is that Neighborhood Place in Puna is using. Because one application is for$1,500,the other award is for$4,000. Are they different software or do we need to check in on that right now? Okay. So to summarize my concerns, checking especially against those because they took the 10 percent off the top administration, which is allowed for the code. Some of these, which is usually always my concern, could be considered admin or overhead expenses but it's more concerned that there is similar, what appears to be, double dipping across these two awards. I didn't get to get to the other double awards for Going Home and BISAC yet. But let's check in on that prior to next time. Thank you, Chair. I yield. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Any response you're looking for Council Member? Okay. We'll go over to Council Member Galimba, please. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. I just have a couple of questions. One of is what is your process for oversight as the money gets spent? Do you have a particular person that engages beyond the invoice going to the organization and seeing the results. MS. HIRAISHI: Yes. MS. GALIMBA: Can you talk about that a little bit? MS. HIRAISHI: Yes, we do. Our team,the homelessness and housing fund team, we do site visits. They have reporting that they have to do on a regular basis. There is community of practice activities that they have to engage in. There's training that they have to engage in. But most importantly,there is site visits that we conduct, announced and unannounced, and again that's coupled with regular reporting and not just invoice how many did we do,but what is Page 11 FC-24 December 2,2025 trends, what are challenges, what kinds of things are they seeing. So that reporting happens consistently also. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. I guess they're sort of related is what is going on with the community of practice because we didn't really talk about that. That's ongoing. Is all of that funded from this $12 million as well? MS. HIRAISHI: Yes,it is funded from the$12 million. What that is community of practice is a gathering of professional development. We bring not just homelessness and housing funded organizations but really any homeless service provider. We try to include them, and it is an opportunity to share practices. We do some kind of training like the most recent one was we really focused on our upcoming data system,looking at the different services that different organizations provide,the different programs,how is the eligibility to those programs. So there's all of those kinds of discussions. There's also things that happen during community of practice,not this most recent one but prior to there was one organization that stood up and was talking about a really difficult situation with a young mom with a brand new baby that needed placement. In that presentation from that agency, another organization stepped up, we can house, and then there was conversations. So there is a lot of that kind of coordination that goes on. But the bigger thing with community of practice, it is funded under HHF programs;it's once a quarter. We usually hold it at the Gilbert Kahele Recreational Area so that we have a centralized location that folks can get to. Again, we encourage not just HHF funded but any type of homeless service provider to attend those gatherings. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. One more thing. I did have the opportunity to interact with Sharon Hirota. She was using the engagement hui system so that was really cool to be able to personally sort of experience that data. Where is that housed and how is it funded? Is it again these monies and where is it; where does the software live? MS. COSTA: Housed with Office of Housing and Community Development. It is through the homeless and housing funds that we purchased the software and manage that team. MS. GALIMBA: Previously,I think wasn't it Neighborhood Place of Puna that was doing more of the data. Did you kind of just take that into Housing? MS. COSTA: Yes. Brought it in house. We've talked about in the past this fund was established and hit the road running in its first year of establishment. I hope what you can see in today's presentation is what happens when we have the ability to contract our staff for more than just one year at a time and to really start to build the program over time. So we're bringing the data in house,we know our data better. Our team,to the question about oversight,monthly reporting is Page 12 FC-24 December 2,2025 coming in from our organizations. I am really impressed with Alison, particularly, who manages the contracts and goes through every month the request for reimbursement. So it's a reimbursement and she's tracking the expenses to see how, on a fiscal basis,how are the organizations performing. Are they under or over? Those are the flags she looks at; they give her red flags. Are we going to meet our goals and objectives with this program if expenses are not happening or if there is over expenses. She is making calls to organizations monthly when she's seeing that the reporting is even just a little concerning to her. But that is because this is her second year now in managing these contracts, so she is getting to know these programs very well and the staff at our nonprofits. Good relationships have been built. MS. GALTMBA: Fantastic. Thank you to the whole team for your work and always getting better. I yield. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for being here. Michelle,I really appreciated the overview in the beginning of doing an evaluation of the program and then identifying ways in which you guys have made some surgical edits within the program. You hit it for me when you said return on investment. We want to see our dollars well spent and having an impact in community. I am here pondering has the tens of millions of dollars that Hawai'i County invested in this program, have we actually made a dent? Are we better off as a community? This could be rhetorical, right? You have all this data that says we are better off or maybe the problem is getting bigger and we don't have enough resources, solutions,right,because the problems just keep getting bigger. Because when I'm outside and I'm walking through communities of Downtown Pahoa and Downtown Hilo,it doesn't look like we are better off. I have to recognize the reality of what we are seeing. The tens of millions of dollars that are going out the door and then I have a spreadsheet here that says for this amount we touched 120 individuals. Not trying to feel like this is a demoralizing situation but it is like I'm trying to understand, are we really better off with this program and the investment we made. Does it require us to take a step back and really evaluate what we are doing? I don't even know if we are helping people that really need help. There are individuals,right,that don't want any rules, no responsibilities; they make any kind in our parks; taking shits, doing drugs. All that paraphernalia is there. I know because we have gone on ride- alongs with our Parks Maintenance crew. And when they're their saying 80 percent of their time is spent cleaning up other people's mess, I get pissed off because I'm a tax payer. I'm a mother. I cannot take my kid to the park anymore because I don't know what kind of crap they're going to step on or the kinds of people they are going to see. I have plenty of compassion,but I also know responsibility to community, yeah. Where is the responsibility to our Page 13 FC-24 December 2,2025 community? And they're not asking or seeking any kind of help. These are the people that need help the most. So I'm wondering what are we doing to evaluate the kinds of programs that we have so that people can actually get help and be functioning members of our society. Sorry,this gets me all wiled up. MS. COSTA: I think these are the questions that we ask ourselves and this team is tasked with asking every day. It is really challenging work; we know that. We come to you with our impact report. We've come to you with year one and year two impact reports. Two years of a program is not enough to see the true longevity of what this fund will do and we can't predict. You ask whether this makes a difference or is making a dent and I would say that it does make a difference. When we go out to do our site visits,which I've done quite a bit of site visits, yes,homelessness is increasing; criminal behavior is out there. But when I go to our programs that we are funding like Salvation Army cot-sleeping and I see the impact that they are making in helping those that need shelter overnight, a safe place to sleep so they are not violated on the streets,to see that that has expanded from 25 to 50 beds a night,that is a difference to those individuals that have a safe place to sleep and a shower. What they do outside of cot-sleeping after they leave, I'm not sure what occurs after that. But the difference that is made is impactful. Our West Hawai'i shelter and the Friend Place,the resource center. When we were facing SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program)benefit cuts in this last month, to know that they are serving up to 150 meals per meal. 150 lunches a day to individuals that are on the street that don't have food,that makes a difference. We fund the place where volunteers can come and serve community. Is it enough? I don't know. I don't think government can answer this question and do all the work. Our convening of the non-profits and providing these places where services can be offered is really important. I would also ask the question of what happens when we close the shelter and we stop funding the shelter. And so if we see impacts now on the streets, what happens when we close shelters? And that is why we've moved this fund to fund some of our essential services like our shelters because when we faced not providing funds to those shelters, that's 50 individuals that are in shelter that would be right back in downtown in the evenings. So I hear your question. It's a very complex conversation. We are doing the best we can with the funds. We are trying to be a lot more strategic, thoughtful, and have better oversight. Ultimately, it's your decision whether the fund stays funded. MS. HIRAISHI: And if I could add too. I totally agree with what Kehau is mentioning. Something that we're all struggling with is the inflow data. What is the increasing numbers? I can site some numbers I've heard from the mainland but that is not necessarily here. But we are the micro of the macro, so we know the problem is getting worse, absolutely. When we look at things like point in time count,that is visible homeless. That is the folks that we see on the street. And as a reminder, a lot of the times and this is something that I learned in this Page 14 FC-24 December 2,2025 role, for some of you that may know I came from a different County department that dealt with homeless issues and viewed homeless issues very differently than where I'm sitting now. I can tell you that the visible folks that we see on the street is the tip of the iceberg. That's who we get in the point in time count. One of the things that I learned at one of these community of practices was so often in our society when we see somebody on the street and if they are in the throes of a drug episode or a mental health episode we go, "Oh my god,what is the matter with you?What is the matter with you?" And something that I learned is the question we need to be saying is, "What has happened to you?" Because the folks that we see on the street that are drugging or mental health issues most times are dealing with trauma and that's the truth. And I am not trying to be touchy-feely; I'm telling you that is the truth. There is traumatic issues that they haven't dealt with so drugs and alcohol become that means. Often that's the folks that we are seeing that are the hardest to service. When we start to look at beyond visible homeless; who are those that are couch-surfing, who are those that are living in their cars, who are those that are 14 days away from being kicked out of the house. I have six people living in my house. If I got told that in 14 days I am out,I would be freaking out. So that is what we don't even see too that some of these programs start to help to address. MS: KIERKIEWICZ: So which of these programs are dealing with the prevention piece? Because I agree with you. I think a lot of the folks that we are seeing out in the community that have addiction issues are because they have no sense of community,they have lost connection to `ohana,there is no God in their life. You know what I mean? And so,this is how they self-cope and they medicate through drugs and alcohol. Where is that prevention piece that you talk about through any of these programs that are being funded? Because I'm not seeing it. MS. HIRAISHI: So very often we are intervening and not preventing. For example,BISAC will go out and intervene in drug use. They are not about prevention in these funds. I'm probably not answering that very well but it's really the prevention that we can do for housing, making sure we have enough affordable housing, making sure that we have quality income, or sufficient income in our generic jobs that gives us enough to live on this island. So it's numerous issues that we are dealing with. When you ask has the fund been helpful, I'm biased and will say yes but I do believe the funds have been helpful. I think that it has helped to bring awareness. It's helped our organizations to really connect with each other. It's taking our organizations out of individual silos and really causing us or forcing us to work as community. And all said and done I believe in my short time in this role,it's going to get worse and worse and worse. MS. COSTA: I also think we need to look at Office of Housing as a spectrum. So this is just one of our funds. This is if you were to look at Housing as a Page 15 FC-24 December 2,2025 spectrum,this fund really does support the homeless services. And then within the Office of Housing, we have rental assistance through Section 8. We have family self-sufficiency programs. We have our community engagement program that works with our partners like Hawaiian Community Assets and Hawaiian Community Lending. And then we have our Affordable Housing Production Fund, right? So, I look at across the spectrum where are our funds touching and this fund really does touch the service side of homelessness. There are prevention pieces built into all of these programs. Outreach is a prevention. Helping someone master leases are prevention programs. When we come back to Council, I can answer your question and give you the specifics. Within this packet, there are cards for each program and what those programs are. I'll provide that for you. Maybe it will be helpful if I know what aspect of prevention? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: We can have a deeper conversation about that. But I have two images in my mind right now. I think about a few weeks ago when there was a viral video posted about the Pahoa County Office, had like nine shopping carts, clothes everywhere, one aunty just high as a kite,right? And I think to myself, tens of millions of dollars going to all these outreach programs. Where was the outreach to these individuals? How did it get to this point? Why does this office look like a dump? And that is shame. That is not the standard that I want for our County facilities. Where are all of our outreach partners there? Because every single one of them could have proactively gone, done whatever intervention, get them help, move them into safe, stable housing. Because pitching a tent on the side of my office is not cool. And then I think about when I drop my son off to school and I have to drive through Railroad right across the street from Target,that homeless encampment is disgusting. It's horrible. Where's the outreach there? That camp gets bigger and bigger. I'm waiting for a fire to happen because there was another fire there down the road, Fire had to go put it out a few weeks ago. So there's all these programs like literal visible issues and I don't where' s the outreach? Where's the consequence? That is the other thing. I get so pissed off. I see fire fighters in the back there. Anytime a County employee is suspected of doing any kind of smokable whatever,immediate drug test,right? Yet, we have individuals in the community that can be doing drugs over and over and over again, and we are giving them Little Caesar's pizzas. Here's a free bed. Here's a free phone. Sorry but at some point, we have to cut off the tap. It's unacceptable. There are certain people that can and need and deserve help and then there are others that are just taking advantage of a system and our generosity. And I say no more because so many of our local families are struggling to make it here. I am out of time. We can have this conversation a little bit later,but I think we need a radical reset on this program and how we are helping people. Thank you, Chair. Page 16 FC-24 December 2,2025 ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Anyone else before I go back to our repeat customers? Okay. Council Member Villegas,back to you please. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah. Thanks for having the courage and exposing that vulnerability, Council Member Kierkiewicz, to express that frustration because you're not alone in that. And with the frustration, unfortunately, with those that manipulate a system my frustration lies with the organizations that manipulate the system and don't utilize funds and resources authentically and effectively. Phone centers for instance and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for somebody to just answer a phone and say, "We don't have a bed". I'm looking here and first off, I want to call out to Salvation Army. I met with them and they were given an allotted amount of money which for 25 beds, correct? They didn't spend all the money, have successfully operated a facility for 25 beds and then used the extra funding and moved it to 50 beds. So that's 50 people sleeping off the streets. So that is the challenge I want to put out to the other organizations. Step up your damn game. You keep saying you don't have enough beds. Buy another bed. If we are talking about putting shelter over people's heads, I don't really want to be putting more money towards more people sitting behind computers navigating data. It is about outreach,interaction, and authentically providing a shelter opportunity, even if it's just for the night. That is a hard thing because we can't control people during the day. My brother was homeless and schizophrenic and you can't force treatment, and drug addiction comes along with that because of psychosis and the dance for empathy. Unless they're suicidal or homicidal,you can't force somebody. So there's all these dances that we do and especially when the federal government is already taking away personal rights and liberties and taking away social service funding, it makes it feel that much more yucky to even be having these kinds of conversations. I look at the Salvation Army, and I look at their success story and with the pennies on the dollar that they have been given. I would like to challenge the other organizations here being given, one of them was given 25 percent of this entire budget. And it's constantly the organization that gets brought to my attention and challenged for where their funding goes and how it's spent. • I also wanted to point out it's really wonderful to see a detox and stabilization program because as a County we have lacked any detox facility support here on island. When it comes to drug addiction, detoxification,people had to go off island and mental health services. So to see you navigating and supporting organizations that I myself have seen had more success and make their dollars go farther, I'm grateful to see that in this report. So thank you and I have empathy for you and your roles because I appreciate when people have empathy for me in this role. We are going to keep pushing on our end and I encourage you to keep pushing and keep holding the organizations Page 17 FC-24 December 2,2025 receiving millions of dollars to be accountable for every damn penny. I am grateful for a bit of the clarification here because we should be able to pay to fly people back to their home, not necessarily paying for the staff of these non-profit organizations to go to conferences or, you know, fly around. But this is to send people back from once they came to reunite them with their family. I yield. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. MS. HIRAISHI: If I may make just a quick comment on that. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Please,Ms. Hiraishi. MS. HIRAISHI: It was detox beds. Our year two,homelessness and housing fund,that was instrumental in the development of the first eight detox beds on this island. Yes, it is only eight beds,but it is an impact that is now carrying and that agency will continue those detox beds post HHF funding. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you,Ms. Hiraishi. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. I wonder if specialist to the Mayor Erin Samura, if you have the information that Sharon Hirota has been sharing around some of these questions that are coming up here if you can come and join us up here or if OHCD,you have the information. I don't know who has it. MS. COSTA: I would have to pull them up from our last task force meeting and I don't have my email with me right now. We are happy to bring that to Council. MS. KAGIWADA: Erin, do you happen to have that? ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Just have to say it on the record. Sorry,Ms. Samura. (Note: At this time,Executive Assistant to the Mayor Erin Samura came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. KAGIWADA: Go ahead and press the button. Thank you MS. SAMURA: Erin Samura,Executive Assistant at the Mayor's office. So if you are referring to the data that Sharon had passed out to us,I don't have that with me at this time. The homeless task force does meet on a monthly basis, and Sharon does pull all the data for us. Of course, data does change, right, we see ups and downs, and she would normally give us a little bit of insight as to why the numbers change based on what the outreach teams are doing. I can share with you there is a calendar, there is a schedule of when the outreach teams are going out and engaging with these people. Page 18 FC-24 December 2,2025 MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you very much. I think it would be great to have that information at the next meeting just because I know she talks about the numbers of people who want assistance, the numbers of people that we have assisted, and the number of people that we are currently assisting. Those numbers are significant of the ones we have assisted and are assisting but the numbers that want assistance and we don't have enough funding to get to them is also extremely significant. So I don't want to try to remember exactly what the numbers were,but I think it would be really helpful information for us to have at the next meeting just for everybody to see basically that as we do help significant numbers off the streets into better living situations,we also are seeing lots of new people come in. We have to imagine if we weren't helping those large numbers of people off the streets, what the picture would look like as well. So I think it would be good to have that data. Thank you. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Yes, Council Member Kimball, please. MS. KIMBALL: I'm just going to make one short comment, and it is for you folks to kind of think about what it means to sit on this side of the dais and just some of the comments that were made. This program is not a permanent program and at some point this Council is going to have to evaluate whether or not to extend it. No matter what the data says,the optics matter. So I think that that's even something we struggle with up here and so coming with us to the data, as Council Member Kagiwada suggested, so that we have that to share. Being able to answer some of these questions about double-dipping, which Council Member Inaba brought up, I mean,these are the optics that our voters come to us talking about. They may not know the nitty-gritty like we do. We don't know the nitty- gritty like you do,but optics matter and when we have to reevaluate this program, it's going to matter even more. Thank you. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Alright,just a couple questions here if that's alright. Thanks for your patience. Could you just share with me your scoring on the geographic equity? We talked a little bit about numbers that demonstrate a greater need in Hilo, and I appreciate the distribution for pursuing funding on the West side as well. So I am just curious how you're scoring that; what does that look like when the applications are being reviewed? MS. HIRAISHI: As part of the overall screening process we really—well,let me back up a little bit. In the RFGA, which is something that we started new this year is we asked organizations, what is your service area? We had in the past comments like Hilo to Kona. Well, what does that mean? ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Because I still have a question,there is one that says Hilo to Kona,but it doesn't say Kohala, it doesn't say Pahala. So, what does that mean? Page 19 FC-24 December 2,2025 MS. HIRAISHI: And is it Hilo to Kona? ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: But if I read the application,it doesn't say other communities. It just says Hilo, Kona. It doesn't identify other spaces they're operating in,right? MS. HIRAISHI: Right. ACTING CHR.HUSTACE: Am I mistaken? MS. HIRAISHI: Right. So for example, one of the organizations that we are putting forward for recommendation,they're based out of Puna,but they are actually servicing along East Hawai'i. So we looked at that application to say okay it's not just the lower Puna that the services are provided but the outreach activities will happen from Hamakua down to Puna side. So all the applications we looked at to see where is that specific service area so that was the first one. When we actually sat down to go, "okay we have three organizations that are applying for this arbitrary outreach". One is in Hilo,the other one is in Hilo, and this one is in Kona. We were very strategic. We're not going to fund two outreach in Hilo and none in Kona. In that case, we would look at— ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: You try to find that balance. MS. HIRAISHI: Absolutely, that balance, yeah. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: No, I understand that. And I recognize our population centers,right? But none of them say that they operate in Ka`u, or they operate in Kohala,right? They're not providing those services. I mean, they may, maybe they can extend their reach a little bit where there's a need,but it doesn't seem like their applications are calling out other communities that have a need as well. And I recognize that there is this varying degree of need. I'm curious were any of them saying we can get up to Kapa'au, we can get down to Oceanview. Are they coming to you saying that in the application? MS. HIRAISHI: Not very many. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Okay. MS. HIRAISHI: That's the reality of it. There has been in past years of the funding because the service wasn't being provided say in Kona side,that County had to reach out to existing providers to ask them to expand their reach. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Sure. Page 20 FC-24 December 2,2025 MS. HIRAISHI: And they did do that. And provided the service for us, for the County, outside of their typical mission-driven service area. This year they pulled back because they got some push back from that. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Push back from extending their efforts? MS. HIRAISHI: From expanding their service area. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Who are they getting push back from? MS. HIRAISHI: General community, I would say. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: The community was pushing back because they didn't want to see these support services in their community? MS. HIRAISHI: The general comments that came back was that certain organizations are spreading beyond what their service area should be,but that was at the request of County, for example. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Okay. Let me just make this clear. There are - communities saying that these services shouldn't be there? I'm hearing a couple things. So either their spreading themselves too thin or that's in some regard community saying some of these services were not warranted in this area. Please clarify that for me? MS. COSTA: Some of the organizations that applied to the homeless and housing funds, you typically see the same organizations over and over. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Sure. MS. COSTA: Those are our larger organizations that have the capacity to apply for these funds. And many of those organizations,yes, are spread really thin. They have workforce issues. We hear that over and over again. They are able to respond when we have requests to respond to encampments in various rural communities. We've been out to Punalu'u, Honoka`a, out in Oceanview. When there is a request to respond, we will reach out to the organizations that are receiving funds from homeless and housing funds. I don't think that we have very many organizations that apply to these funds that are specific to particular rural areas. And that's not to say that there aren't organizations that are operating in those rural areas, they're just not accessing these funds. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Okay. Is that a challenge you see with the outreach to different organizations then in those communities or they're unaware of this opportunity or they had applied and did not succeed? MS. COSTA: I think it is more of a grass roots versus non-profit organizations. Page 21 FC-24 December 2,2025 ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Because there is a lot of compassion and aloha and a lot of very smaller rural communities. I see that in the Kohala regions specifically. And I really encourage after some of the conversation,reviewing that travel policy because outside your Waimea Council Office, there is an individual who just got off the plane, got on a free bus, was on a bench outside the office. He had no idea where he was. A nice gentleman. And I called one of these organizations and they said, "We'll come visit him in two weeks". Because they're not all providing that service in those rural communities, that is what I'm seeing because the east west split, I understand I'm between our urban centers but north and south are in the wind though. So that's where I see a little challenge. So please, we've had some good conversation here, feedback as it goes forward and just reviewing some of these things here. Thank you for your patience with us and we'll move for the vote here. So all those in favor of moving Resolution 397 to Council with a favorable recommendation,please say "aye." Vote on Res. 397-25: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 397-25 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba,Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Acting Chair Hustace—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Mr. Clerk, if we could go to Bill 108 quickly, please. Change Order As directed by the Acting Chair and with no objection from the Committee of Business: Members, the following item was taken out of order: Bill 108: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 25-45, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAI`I FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30, 2026 Increases revenues in the State Grants—State Emergency Medical Services account ($1,750,000); and appropriates the same to the following Emergency Medical Services accounts: Salary and Wages ($749,000), Other Current Expenses ($90,000), and Equipment ($911,000). Funds would be used for the opening of ambulance operations at Makalei Fire Station in Kailua-Kona and six new positions. Reference: Comm. 619 Intr. by: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R) Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend passage of Bill 108 on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Onishi. Page 22 FC-24 December 2,2025 ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: We have Fire joining us today. So if you would like to introduce yourselves and share a little bit about this bill with us that would be fantastic. Thank you for your time. (Note: At this time,Fire Dept.Battalion Chief Keith Kanae came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KANAE: Afternoon, Council Members, County Clerk Brown. Thank you for having us today. This is a great first step in introducing the Makalei ambulance service to the North Kona region. We think that this is a benefit to everybody, especially the community. Just looking at the metrics right off the bat, by adding service over here,we anticipate to reduce the call volume to Medic center and the Kailua-Kona ambulance by 25 percent right there. But the overall effect that it would have on the entire community is that it will increase availability of pre-hospital care, advance life-support care to the entire region or the entire Kona side. So we're happy to answer any questions if anybody does have any. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you,Battalion Chief. I just want you to introduce yourself for the record. MR. KANAE: Battalion Chief Keith Kanae,EMS (Emergency Medical Services) Branch,Hawai`i Fire Department. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you,Battalion Chief. Any questions for our men in blue? Yes, Council Member. MR. INABA: No, not a question. I just want to take this opportunity to thank Fire Chief Kazuo Todd, the staff at both Kailua and Makalei for their testimony at the state legislature, Mayor Alameda,the team, and our island legislators, who really pushed to get this bill at a state legislation; something that has been introduced time and time again,but this was the first time our County made a concerted effort together and was there at every hearing to make sure that we could get this funding and bring it home. This is the heart of my district where lot of local people live, a lot of our real property tax revenue from the County comes from my district. So for us to be able to finally have what I think is only fair for our district, I am most grateful. So mahalo to all of our state legislators, Representative (Susan) Lee Loy, Representative (Mattias) Kusch, Senator (Dru) Kanuha,Representative (Nicole)Lowen, everyone who saw this through all steps, and of course,Representative (Chris) Todd as well. Mahalo. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Onishi. MR. ONISHI: Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to say congratulations, and I know this has been for a while,right. At onetime it was Pahoa or Makalei,right? Page 23 FC-24 December 2,2025 And they decided to give it to Pahoa at the time. So but it's great to hear the great news and congratulations again, and to all the Legislators that helped out. Thanks. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member Onishi. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Just happy to support and happy to see this going through. I think that it does make a lot of sense and I'm glad that you got the funding needed to do this. Just a quick side,thank you to the Fire Department for putting out the fires in Hilo this past weekend. That was so tragic. MR. KANAE: Thank you. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Anyone else? Alright. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate the time here today. This is a great opportunity at supporting our Kona community. So mahalo nui for your service. All those in favor of forwarding Bill 108 with a favorable recommendation to Council, please say"aye." Vote on Bill 108: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 108 on first (Approved) reading was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Acting Chair Hustace—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1. Excused: None. Return to Order The Acting Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business. of Business: BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (Note: An item in this category was taken up previously, out of order.) Page 24 FC-24 December 2,2025 Bill 103: AMENDS CHAPTER 19,ARTICLE 7, SECTION 19-53, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED),RELATING TO REAL PROPERTY TAX Applies the homeowner classification's three-percent annual assessment increase cap to a property's agricultural assessed value under certain conditions,including if the property is no longer assessed according to its agricultural use; expires after two tax years. Reference: Comm. 593 Intr.by: Council Members Kimball and Hustace Postponed: November 19, 2025 (Note: There is a motion by Council Member Kimball, seconded by Council Member Galimba, to recommend passage of Bill 103 on first reading.) ; and Comm. 593.1: From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated November 21, 2025, transmitting the Real Property Tax Legislative Change Summary. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Okay,we're back to this one,Bill 103. So thanks for your patience. Council Member Kimball, you want to start us off please. MS. KIMBALL: Yes. Thank you. I do have an amendment prepared based on some of the conversation we had at the last meeting but in addition, Communication 593.1 was included,which has some graphics. It is in the online package. I just wanted to offer the opportunity for folks to ask questions of our RPT (Real Property Tax) with regard to the slides that were provided. If no need, no need. Okay. You're off the hook, guys. No,just teasing. I am sure there will be more questions. Motion to Amend: Ms. Kimball moved to amend Bill 103 with the contents of Comm. 593.3. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. MS. KIMBALL: So in the last conversation we had about this in committee, one of the things that came up was extending that sunset date out a little bit further. So I'm going to start the end of this amendment, which proposes to extend the sunset date out to December 31, 2029,that will give the department a little over three years to see how this all works. With that change to the effective date,the date of the 15 out of the last 10 years becomes a sliding rather than dates certain. So you see that amended language in there under Item B. So that takes out the 2012 to 2027 and instead makes it a sliding window of 10 out of the 15 years. We did just add some clarifying language under A, tying that into the homeowner's exemption section of Chapter 19. And then finally, at the request of the department, we are adding just a noose of Section 2, that makes it clear that as far as the look back is concerned,that doesn't entitle anyone to like a rebate or Page 25 FC-24 December 2,2025 anything from a previous tax year. It just is a reassessment moving forward. That was stated in the hearing,but we felt it better to have it on the record in the ordinance itself, although, it will not live in code. So it's just in the uncoded section of the ordinance. Happy to take any questions on the amendment. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Okay. Council Member Onishi. MR. ONISHI: Thanks, Chair. I guess for the makers, I'm just wondering because I was talking to Administrator Miura about this because I was listening to the discussions we had at the last meeting. So my question basically is, so the purpose of this bill is to help like our fanners now that have been farming for many,many years, you know, like maybe 20, 30 years. And then with their families,their children not wanting to continue the farming, right, and then they're deciding, okay, it's time for them to retire. And so now this would help benefit them,right. Is that how this is supposed to be? ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Yes. MR. ONISHI: So then my question is why are we like putting a 15 year where we can make it longer,right, for those and the age can stay at 60,instead of 65. But then if you have been farming for 25-30 years,right,then we going hit those people who we want to hit or who we want to give the exemption, or the three percent, right? Because if you come in just recently or within that 15 years, to me, they didn't go through the hard times through all that years that they had to go through. I mentioned to administrator who was that our State Department of Agriculture, they had to go through so many tough times because there was no support to them that being,helping them through the tough times. So to me,they paid their dues and now this is a reward for them. So just something to think about that I just wanted to bring up. I yield. Thanks. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: So we're on the amendment and I don't know if Council Member Kimball, do you want to add anything to that thought? MS. KIMBALL: I think that that as Council Member Hustace and I were talking with RPT about this piece of legislation,that magic number about what is the appropriate investment in farming to be eligible for that program was the one that we just felt we couldn't solve ourselves and we needed to bring it to this body. So right now it's set up as 10 of the last 15 years. Part of the reason for that, and if I could give an example, you have a farming couple and the farm plan is under the spouse, the husband; the husband passes away,the wife is still farming but she doesn't know that it wasn't under her name and so there is maybe a year where it has to get reconciled, so they are not in that. So it's not going to be ten consecutive anymore, there is going to be this break in there, through no real fault of their own. But there are examples like that,right, where you might not have continuity completely consecutive,but we want to capture those folks. So I think Page 26 FC-24 December 2,2025 that if folks feel like 10 out 15 is not enough of a commitment, that's a dialog we can have. I think this is where we kind of landed and wanted to get feedback on. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Just to chime in,they do have hit that first condition too. So they have to hit that age mark as well. So, there is that opportunity for them, sorry to jump in here. MR. ONISHI: No, no. Good. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: You know,there's that opportunity that they have • been farming actively prior for a longer period of time. And I don't know if we wanted to call out all those years, we may hit some roadblocks there. But they hit that age, that's that first qualifying mark. So if they've potentially been farming and a lot of our farmers been farming a long time,right? Generally, they've done it for their families, for their kids, so maybe their kids didn't have to do it because they've been doing it for a long time. So it's that first qualifying mark before that second condition kind of comes into play. So you're already hitting our Kupuna and our aging farmers. MR. ONISHI: Correct. And then so but then like I said if the purpose is for those local farmers that has been doing it for 20, 30 years, then to me that's where the rewards should be given to them, right? Because someone can come in maybe 15 years,but they are producing not as much products like, you know,they're going have x amount of avocado trees, or whatever, showing that they are in business,but it is a small scale and then they can benefit from this. I guess within the age plus the years of what they farming might,right. But if we are looking to awarding folks long-term ones then I would ask to have that increased more. And maybe it's not this amendment but on the main motion or main draft. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Inaba? Okay. Any other discussion on the amendment? Alright. All those in favor of amending with the contents of Communication 593.3,please say"aye." Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 103 with the contents of to Amend: Comm. 593.3 was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Galimba,Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Acting Chair Hustace—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Alright. We're back to the main motion and we'll start off with Council Member Kagiwada. Page 27 FC-24 December 2,2025 MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. I think this is a question for RPT or maybe to the makers also. And it's more of a philosophical one on this. So my understanding is this is a short-term program to kind of get people through that were caught in the changes of our tax policies. Is that correct? (Note: At this time, Real Property Tax Administrator Lisa Miura came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. MIURA: Correct,that's what I understand. Lisa Miura, Real Property Tax Administrator. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. So in looking at this additional information and Communication 593.1 that you provided, I just want to note that this is showing that the assessed amount real property tax for the land itself going way down but the amount for the assessment of the buildings, either are not changing or only going down a little perhaps. Philosophically, I just wanted to ask a question about making land value less and relatively in a ratio for the building value and the land value, making the land value less and therefore the building value more. Does that go in the direction that we want to go in as far as maximizing what is done on land, and using land to its best uses? Understanding that this is a short-term proposal,but I did notice that and in general I feel like we would rather value the land more and the buildings less because that gives us the most out of the actual space. It stops people from land-banking, from sitting on land that they're not using for agriculture or commercial land,that it's just an empty lot, all that kind of stuff, right? So my question to you is more a philosophical one. Is this direction of decreasing land value and increasing building, or relatively speaking, having a higher building value, is that a direction that something RPT wants to see us go in or where do you stand on that? MS. MIURA: So I think in these cases what you are seeing is the agricultural program, the reduction in value is based on the value of the agriculture on the land. So when they apply for the programs, so that's separate from the homeowner and so that's why in these cases of the actual and with this legislation, you're going to see a lower land value because it's based on the agricultural land value. When it comes to just strictly the homeowners not looking at the agricultural value discounts, the actual that you have in the middle for fiscal year 2024-2025 is more relative of what you would see when there is no agricultural land value. So you see the land value high, and the building value is also pretty high in this case because the three percent cap hasn't protected them yet. So I think it's hard when you're looking at the two different programs. Typically, when we are doing a property that is not in agriculture, we see the building value keep the cap, not the land value keep the cap. So that would kind of go along more with what you are talking about. When it comes to the agricultural program, it's all the land,right? They're not getting discounts for the improvements on it. But now that we can have the home exemption, homeowner Page 28 FC-24 December 2,2025 tax class, and the lower agriculture land value you're seeing a combination of all it, which it can make it confusing. But the idea was to encourage individuals who were farming on the land that they are living in get the best of both programs. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. So I guess I'm just wondering what happens after December 31, 2029? MS. MIURA: They would continue at the three percent cap per year on the fiscal year 2024-2025 assuming, I mean, we did it based on this current year or the last year,but we continue with the three percent cap because they come out of the agricultural and they go straight into the homeowner tax class. But they're frozen at that agricultural land value for when it was last assessed based on how the code was written and then were doing the three percent cap increase from there. MS. KAGIWADA: On the land value? MS. MIURA: On the land value. Well, it can be on the total but it's going back to the old land value. The whole improvements and building is where you see the three percent. MS. KAGIWADA: And then starting say somebody ages into this category and is on agricultural land after December 31, 2029? MS. MIURA: They will not. Right now this ends, so I believe the intent was that the County Council at that time in 2029 would be to review if the program did what it was supposed to, and they can decide if they want to continue it,put different restraints on it, or just have it repealed. So if we don't come back to County Council or if Council doesn't ask to have it brought back it would die in 2029. MS. KAGIWADA: So I guess I'm just feeling like I really do hear and respect and want to help farmers that have been farming and want to age in place. At the same time there is a competing kind of need for us to use our agricultural land well and not have it just sit there. MS. MIURA: That's true. Keep in mind this is only the properties they live on. So I think the difficulty comes in when you're living on your property having people, even if you're going to lease part of it, coming onto your property that you may not know. And we've been heavily encouraging through our workshops the Go Farm Program and we've heard from Research and Development, Anna (Ezzy), that they have contacted them. And so now it's finding farmers that want to use other people's land. But I think it's a little different when it's the property you're living on. You really got to make sure you have somebody you trust, especially where you have kupuna there that are already aren't able to farm but you want to make sure nobody is there with ill intent. That would be my only Page 29 FC-24 December 2,2025 thought. I think the saving grace on this is that it is only for the properties they have the homeowners on, not all their properties. MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah. There are just competing needs there and I see the same thing even in residential properties,right? You have somebody, maybe it's a matriarch of a big family who had a big four-bedroom house with a very big property and kids grown, moved away, spouse passes away,living by themselves and, you know, you have compassion for people, and you want them to age in place. On the other hand, does one person need such a huge property or would in general it would be better for our community if we had good alternatives for people to move to and allow a large family to move into that. So I just see there's competing needs here and when we legislate like this sometimes we're having unintended consequences I guess. Alright,that's all I have to say. Sorry. I yield. ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: No need to apologize. Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: I just wanted to highlight that the second slide that talks about the fiscal impact to just give kind of a sense the number of parcels we are talking about. This is not a lot of parcels. The fiscal impact should be fairly small if everyone takes advantage of it. We don't know that for certain. I just wanted to highlight that I do appreciate that there are,to some extent, competing concerns with us wanting more people to be actively farming farmland. But I think the difference really is here that it's their homestead and these are most likely people who are on fixed income. There's one example I can give, she'd be happy to lease her land out for pasture,but she doesn't have the money to put the fence in that would be necessarily for that because she's on fixed income. So there's all sorts of different scenarios here,but we are just trying to capture this group and provide some benefit. Thanks: ACTING CHR. HUSTACE: Okay. Any other questions or feedback,Members? Alright. Well thank you for your consideration. Appreciate the opportunity to bring this forward with you and the opportunity to support our aging farmers. There are some ideas there, Council Member Kagiwada, so thank you for your insight on to that as well and opportunity for new engagement with some of those parcels as well and what that looks like going forward. I think the intent is here really to provide a safety net for those of a fixed income, you know, those that have dedicated years of their lives in a community for this purpose. I know you are all pretty eager here to leave. Okay. Well I'm grateful for the opportunity to work with Real Property Tax on this and bringing this forward and having this conversation here. So all those in favor of moving Bill 103 to Council with a favorable recommendation,please say"aye." Page 30 FC-24 December 2,2025 Vote on Bill 103: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 103, as amended (Approved) to Draft 2, on first reading was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Onishi, Villegas, and Acting Chair Hustace—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1. Excused: None. ADJOURN- There being no further business on our agenda today,Acting Chair Hustace MENT: adjourned the meeting at 2:34 p.m. Thank you very much. Approved: Adi Mr. Matt Kane i`i-Kleinfelde Chair (D e) Finance Co ttee MK/tk Page 31