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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN AWESC 2017/08/15 (2016-2018)Committee on Agriculture, Water and Energy Sustainability 6th Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii August 15, 2017 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Agriculture, Water and Energy ORDER: Sustainability Committee was called to order at 10:42 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Vice Chair (via videoconference from Hilo) Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member (came in later) Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Ms. Karen Eoff, Member Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member Ms. Susan. L. K. Lee Loy, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. The following individual registered to speak to comment on Communication 390, and came forward when called by the Chair: Cory Harden. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 390: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY JAY IGNACIO, PRESIDENT OF HAWAII ELECTRIC LIGHT COMPANY (HELLO), AND KEVIN WALTJEN (HELCO's GENERAL MANAGER OF TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION) From Council Member Tim Richards, dated July 26, 2017, requesting a presentation titled "Hawai`i's Energy Future." Motion Close File: Mr. Kanuha moved to close file on Comm. 390. Seconded by Ms. Eoff. AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 CHR. RICHARDS: Just a quick note on this presentation. I was in communication with HELCO (Hawai`i Electric Light Company) earlier this year to have HELCO come and discuss with us HELLO, who they are, what they are going to be doing with us, and more importantly, what we are going to do going into the future. So with that, I'd like to thank Mr. Ignacio and Mr. Waltjen, come before us. So please continue with your presentation and then I'm sure we're going to have choke questions. (Note: At this time, President of Hawaii Electric Light Company Jay Ignacio and General Manager of Transmission and Distribution Kevin Waltjen came forward and gave a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Council For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the clerk's Office. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 390.) CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you, Mr. Ignacio for that. And now I'm going to turn this—open this up to Council Members for any questions. So Hilo, I cannot—okay, I can see you. If you have something, either pipe up or wave and we'll go ahead and get you on the agendas. Anybody here in the Kona? Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: I don't have a question, I just wanted to thank Jay and Kevin and his staff for coming here. That was very informative for me and I really appreciate how they integrated Ms. Harden's questions into the presentation, even if it wasn't required of them. I thought that was really nice and I also appreciate the candor about the rate increases and stuff It was just really nice all the way around, but thank you guys for coming. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Anyone else? Ms. Poindexter. MS. POINDEXTER: Like Council Member Chung, I don't have any questions, but I just want to say thank you for all of the work that you all continue to do in the communities, to get education out there and staying at our community meetings, not just for your portion, but concerned about what's happening in communities. And I see that you stay throughout the meetings, that's real important and speaks loudly of your commitment to our local communities. So, thank you so much, Jay. MR. IGNACIO: Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, anyone else here in the Kona Chambers? In the Hilo Chambers? Ms. Ruggles. Page 2 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. I have a question about what the difference of how we're producing energy. We have solar, wind, hydro, and geothermal. I was wondering if you had any comments on the efficiency of each. MR. IGNACIO: I'm not really sure how I can answer with respect to the efficiency. There's certainly different pricing and there's, I guess, different nature. When we look at, at least from the power system, from the utility grid aspect, geothermal has a high value because it has a 24-hour availability and we can actually dispatch it, so it's a little more predictable resource. We don't have to combine it with other technologies, we can just use it as is. Pricing, we probably have the most favorable pricing from geothermal than any other resource. Photovoltaic is a good resource in that it's quickly deployable. You can get a set of panels, an inverter, deploy it, and you can quickly start generating energy. The challenge with photovoltaic is that it's available during the day periods and then the maximum output of photovoltaic is pretty much all coincident, it's all in that mid-morning, I mean mid-day time period. So accommodating that type of energy profile is challenging for the utility, but it's still a good resource and the pricing has come down, and continues to go down. So we want to take advantage of that kind of technology. Wind is maybe in between photovoltaic and geothermal. Wind would be more available 24 -hours a day, but you're going to have higher output periods and lower output periods, kind of they have a pattern. But you have more of an availability for the wind resource throughout the day, but it's still variable, so it's not absolutely predictable like a geothermal resource. But we are getting better at predicting the wind and also, one of our models in using wind is actually overbuilding facilities, meaning building more wind facilities than we can use, but then actually using controls and pitch the blades so that even if you're, what we call spilling wind, you're using as much wind as possible. And you'd be able to control up and down and make the wind resource closer to our firm dispatchable type of resources, and it adds value to the utility. I hope I addressed your question, Ms. Ruggles. MS. RUGGLES: Yeah, thank you. That's all the questions I have. Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Anyone else in the Hilo Chambers? Ms. O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: Thank you, Chair. Thank you HELCO for being here and doing the presentation. I do have some questions relating to the Energy Mix 2017-2045 chart. I can't refer to the colors because mine is black and white, but I think I can still read the map, or the chart, so I'm just wanting to confirm something. In 2017, the quantity of geothermal contributing to the grid is somewhat static, up until about year 2024. And then I see what appears to be about a 50 percent Page 3 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 increase in the geothermal contribution, and another large increase in year 2030. From that point on, it stays pretty static. Can you please describe what you're expecting to happen there in terms of expansion of geothermal? Is this all going to be at current locations on the east rift zone of lower Puna? Are we looking at expanding locations? Yeah, just if you could explain that better. Thank you. MR. IGNACIO: I touched on it briefly when I did the presentation. I anticipate geothermal addition, I hope to have additional geothermal. With respect to going back to east Hawaii, I'd see that as being a difficult challenge because of the public acceptance. Ifcertainly the resource in east Hawaii is the most known, it's proven it's available. The difficulty is actually getting the public acceptance and to be frank, the night-time drilling requirement, where you cannot drill at night, that essentially makes it difficult for any developer to drill for new geothermal resources. It just creates, actually operational hazards but it also creates very high costs. So currently, it wouldn't be practical, but hopefully, we can work with Hawaii state government, maybe even get some federal assistance to do exploration in other areas. Some of the thoughts is not the direct extraction of steam, like we do currently in Puna, but actually using hot water resources, so you're not actually using direct steam, but you're actually using hot water. And then you run it through a heat exchanger to create steam, and then you create the energy. That's called low-temperature geothermal. So maybe there's potential for those kind of resources in a remote area that might be more publically acceptable. MS. O'HARA: Thank you for that response. And so we are looking at areas that aren't necessarily close to the population being served? In other words, I think we're short on generation on the west side of the island, given the demand there, relative to the east side of the island. So you're talking about possible development in more remote locations using newer technology. Sounds good. Okay, thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you Mr. Ignacio and Mr. Waltjen for being here. I actually had more of a looking forward question. You mentioned we're at about a 185 megawatts, and then at peak use—and then we also have our energy efficiency goals of reaching renewable by 2045. But do you have a number as far as what the total amount of energy we're going to need at this end of 2045? MR. IGNACIO: I do, it's not in my head right now. But in coming up with the projections, we do a load forecast, that includes demand response and energy efficiency as a combination. We did not anticipate a significant increase. Page 4 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 Mr. Waltjen can assist me here in the amount. We did not anticipate the significant increase from today out to 2045, I mean aside from, you know, self -generation and energy efficiency, you would expect maybe the load to double by the time you get to 2045, or even be higher than that. But our projections were much lower than that. So in terms of the amount of resources needed to meet the anticipated load, you don't have to add whole significant amount of resources. And that reminds me of a question Ms. Harden had as to what the declining use, you know, what is the utility's plan? Well part of our plan is we recognize that, but we also want to acknowledge that customers want to generate their own energy. So we want to figure out a way so that they can generate their own energy but still make the utility viable. So some of the thoughts we have is renewable energy, the electric utility actually has a head start on the rest of the state because energy use, fossil fuel use, is not just electrical energy, it's also for transportation. So we anticipate that we could convert the transportation resources, so as we make the utility more of a renewable resource, you can actually electrify the transportation sector. So you can actually bring in more customers using electricity. And that way, you have more customers using and paying for the infrastructure, you can actually manage the rates much better. So that's part of our game plan going forward. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. And one follow-up question, you mentioned overdesign of certain renewables. In order of priority, you mentioned wind, what would be the next area that you folks are looking to overdesign in hopes to kind of close the gap, and kind of help us reach that energy efficiency goal at 2045? MR. IGNACIO: So, the quickest resource we see would probably be photovoltaic, and then wind. We want to see if we can take advantage of the tax credits associated with wind, that's why we put that in the resource, and that's why we're very supportive of it, because we want to see if we can take advantage of that tax credits. We anticipate additional geothermal will probably take longer. It will be a longer process of identifying the sites, actually doing assessments, actually doing pilot tests, and going through the permitting process. So that was later in the plan. And then further down in the plan, we actually show a biofuels component. So we anticipate it will take longer for biofuels to develop and actually become economical, so we show it way later in the plan, that's years out. As you move further out in the plan, the uncertainty significantly increases. So as we move further, we're sure that this plan is going to change, as technology change, as the pricing change. We're pretty sure this plan is going to change. What's coming on earlier and was not in our plan is the biomass that we're going to get from Hu Honua. That's coming on in 2019, so it's not on this chart, but you're going to see, if we were to redo this chart, then you're going to have a Page 5 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 bigger component of the biomass earlier. So in terms of ease, I would say photovoltaic, then wind, then maybe later geothermal, but we are getting the biomass. MS. LEE LOY: And one final question, because everyone across the State keeps talking about our energy goal at 2045, and part of that is really having the space to have some other renewables and from what I can see from the chart, we're at about 54 percent. Is that accurate, to reaching 100 percent for Hawaii County? MR. IGNACIO: We MS. LEE LOY: Did I read that? It says 2016 42.2 percent renewable with a goal of 100 percent by 2045. MR. IGNACIO: Yes. You're asking me if we believe it's doable? MS. LEE LOY: Yes. MR. IGNACIO: I believe it's doable and I believe we can actually do it before 2045. With addition of Hu Honua, you're going to have a significant increase, so you're going to be probably in the 65 percent range already, and then the continued growth of photovoltaic, it's going to take you in the 70 percent range quite quickly. And then if we can add the wind resource, you know, you're going to be up in the 80's and 90's. So we can get there quickly. The concept that I've been saying, and it's I think picking up some momentum, is that people just see 100 percent and they think you stop there. Actually, in order to run a utility system, you actually have to go beyond 100 percent. Currently, we have 185 megawatt peak, but we keep 270 megawatts of firm capacity. That's, you know, the same philosophy that's going to have to happen when you go forward, is you know, resources are not always going to be there There's always overhaul schedules, there's always maintenance, there's unplanned events, so you're going to have to build renewable resource even beyond the 100 percent mark. So even if we get to 100 percent, the work doesn't stop, you're going to have to continue keep on making investments. So there are a lot of challenges and opportunities going forward. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you so much. Everybody on this Council knows that I'm extremely competitive and this is one area I want to win. I want to be the first County to get to 100 percent before all the other counties. Thank you very much, I yield. MR. IGNACIO: Thank you. Can I add one more comment? CHR. RICHARDS: By all means. Page 6 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 MR. IGNACIO: And this is how I speak out there and people laugh at me maybe sometimes, but you know, we are at 54 percent renewable. We're going to be you know, continue to grow. I think Hawaii County should be proud of that fact and we should market that fact. I mean everyone should be marketing, you come to Hawaii Island, and you're actually using 54 percent renewable energy. Every time you turn on the light switch, you're actually using 54 percent renewable energy. I mean you cook your meal on an electric stove, you're using renewable energy and I think we should be proud of that, and we actually should take advantage and market that for Hawaii Island. Thank you. MS. LEE LOY: Yes, Mr. Ignacio, we're the big and the best island. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy, anybody else in Hilo Chambers? Anything further? Anything further in Kona Chambers? Okay, that means it's my turn. Okay again, first of all, I want to echo what everyone else has said and thank you for being here. Having a talk -story about this is very important to move things forward. Couple of comments, energy is near and dear to me for a variety of different reasons and I think I have to start the conversation for myself with one of the things, and this is great, we're all going renewable and our direction is that way, but cost. We have to pay attention to cost, and what I don't want to be is the highest cost in the nation, which essentially we're just about are and we can argue nuances. But that's one of the concerns. If we look at our members, our constituents, the people of our community, and we pay attention to our incomes, if we pay attention to our cost of living, this is very concerning going forward, and I understand why. I get it. I understand with the power grid here on the Big Island, it started from, I think some very small companies, got a little bit bigger, and then started joining. And so we ended up with what we have today. But things are changing and I do have to echo my pride in the fact that we're heading in the renewable direction. Cheap oil, cheap energy allowed us to do a lot of things over the years, which was for all the right reasons, but now it's time to evolve on them. Couple of things, couple questions that's been put before me. I know we talk about the renewable sources, wind, photovoltaic, it doesn't really matter, but we have curtailment of those when we don't need the power. And one of the perceptions, and by the way, your presentation was great, but it's a 50,000 foot overview of what we're talking about, getting down to the nuts and bolts. In discussing the curtailment of renewables, one thing that was mentioned to me previously was why do we curtail the renewables? Why don't we keep them going first and then curtail the heart and firm generation? And I understand having to balance the grid. I'm not an engineer but you understand that's a challenge for you. I also understand that because we're an island, it's like a little continent, you have to take care of everything here. We don't have the redundancy to tap into another grid to help balance us out. I got that. But Page 7 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 understanding that, and in the advancements of electrical engineering, aren't there ways you can rely more on the renewable side and less on the firm side and balance the renewable with the firm side? I pose that question. Also, are there future plans to tie the grids together? Meaning Big Island, to Maui, to Oahu. Again, I think there are some advantages but I'm sure there are disadvantages to that as well going forward. And then as a question coming forward, we talk about these smart grids. There's been health concerns raised and I justI have to put that out because it came from a constituent, but I want to put that out to you. So, let me stop there and let you respond to some of that. MR. WALTJEN: Okay, so balancing the renewables with the new technology of today MR. RICHARDS: Excuse me, can you state your name, just for the record? MR. WALTJEN: Kevin Waltjen, General Manager for Transmission and Distribution. Balancing the renewables with the technology changes that we're having going forward, to answer that question, I'll start with all these new renewable changes that we're going through is different from what we've done in the last 100 years. If you look at the advancement that we've done in just the last 10 years, it's pretty much light years in comparison to where we came from. So to answer your question, yes, we believe we can move forward and balance it more and use that kind of technology. It's just that it is cutting edge right now, so you approach these things from a perspective of I'll put into play pieces that will work and tested. Because if you throw things in that are not tested, you can result in the opposite direction, which Jay had kind of eluded to in his presentation earlier about getting into situations where your generation is not there for the amount of load that's coming on. If your generation goes away for whatever reason, say we put all our faith in the renewable, we put this technology out there that's supposed to work and it doesn't, now your generation goes away, we go back to the early 1990's, which was, we had to go without power to customers for hours at a time every day until we could re-establish generation. That's the part we kind of worry about. So we take it with some kind of caution, but yet we know we progress forward. So Jay had also mentioned in his presentation about smart inverters. Those are some of the things that as a tri -company, you know, all the different corporations, different companies across the islands, we're looking at using those smart inverters to utilize more photovoltaic generation. Wind is another kind of concept, right? When the wind blows, you have an abundance of wind, you'll have generation, but when the wind stops, you have issues. So Jay had kind of touched upon looking at the future wind renewables, which is we look at overbuilding the wind farms such that when you have a lot of wind, you tilt the Page 8 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 blades, spill the wind, and still be able to provide the energy that you need without having too much. And the converse is true also. When you don't have enough wind for the minimum amount of generation, you use a lot of wind turbines to capture as much of that wind as possible so that way you can provide for the load. So we're moving in that direction. That's the best that I can talk to as far as utilizing the renewables. As far as curtailment, the curtailment rules are in place so that way, you can ensure when your customer turns on their lights, the generation is there. But it has a curtailment list that says I will turn you off first, I'll turn you off second, and so forth, based off the contracts that we signed with those different companies. They're not the cheapest contracts, but it is still there so that we can manage this grid. But we do believe we can move forward and we continue to. MR. IGNACIO: Let me add to Kevin's explanation. So there's a concern about curtailment of renewables, and I acknowledge that concern because we're making this investment in new technology, and it's the kind of technology we want. Why wouldn't we accept all of the energy? And early in the presentation, I said that's where we get the biggest debate, in managing the reliability and moving to the 100 percent renewable. Currently on our system, we do deploy renewables first, and we'll accept as much renewable energy as we can while managing the power system. So we'll turn back our oil fossil fuel units as low as possible, we even will take them off line if need be, or we'll cycle our fossil fuel so that we can accept as much renewable energy as possible. You always need to balance the amount used with the amount being generated, and what happens in certain cases is you have sudden changes in the amount that's generated with renewables. The wind may drop off suddenly, or the cloud cover may come suddenly, so you have these variations. So we need to keep a reserve of units that can respond in the opposite direction. So we keep a certain set, we call that must -run units, and must -run units are our generally our fossil fuel units. And what we're doing is we're looking for ways so that we can replace must -run units with renewable must -run units. So Hu Honua would be a particular case. So the argument for Hu Honua, the pro -argument for Hu Honua is that you can use a renewable resource, a biomass resource, and then you can remove one of those must -run units, which is a fossil fuel steam plant. That is—you can do that for so long and then you're going to have to move to different strategies, like storage. So we have, up in North Kohala, installed a one megawatt battery system, we've experimented with that. We've seen that it can respond and make a difference on our system when you have sudden drop off, or sudden rise in renewable energy. It'll counteract, it'll quickly charge or discharge. So we've had successes with that one megawatt storage. So going forward, we're looking at a larger unit to help us in managing the system using a different technology. Page 9 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 Although battery prices are coming down, it's still expensive. It's still an additional technology that we have to add, and spend money, and put in when we wouldn't have to otherwise. So that's some of the tradeoffs that we have to recognize. Now going forward, you know, we've done all these techniques, we've sent our engineers around the world. I mean they went to Spain, Germany, Japan, Singapore, Philippines, looking for comparable situation, island utilities, where you don't have an interconnection, or to Germany where they have high penetration of photovoltaic. So we deployed our engineers looking for all of the answers. We partnered with national organizations like National Renewable Energy Laboratories, or Electric Power Research Institute, to learn and actually to teach and share experiences. But we're at 54, we're going to be at 70 percent soon. What people have to start becoming accustomed to is that you're going to have to now have renewables actually be very similar to the utility. They're going to have to help manage the grid and they're going to be certain times when they're actually going to have to back down their output, in order to accept another renewable energy resource. Mr. Waltjen said we don't dispatch economically. Well currently, what we do is we dispatch renewable first, even if they're more expensive than a fossil fuel generation. So to accept as much renewables as possible, we may back down a fossil fuel generator that is actually lowering cost, and that's our current practice. What's going to happen in the future as you get closer to 100 percent, you're going to have a lower cost renewable and another renewable, and you're going to back down the higher -cost renewable and dispatch the lower cost renewable, and that's going to be deemed curtailment. But that's kind of the reality in a very high penetration renewable system. That change in mindset, people have not let go of that yet. We, with the modern inverters, we expect modern inverters to actually help manage the voltage, not just utility devices to manage voltage. But if you're going to generate, you actually manage the voltage yourself with your own inverter. But that means you may not, at certain times, go to your maximum output, right? You invest in your system, but you're not be able—you know, the sun is shining and you want to maximize your output but you drive up the voltage, so you may have to, at certain times, not go to your maximum output to manage voltage. That's viewed negatively, that's viewed as curtailment. I see it a little differently. I see it as that situation happening less frequently. So if we have all of the installers behaving the same way and participating in managing the voltage, you actually will be able to deploy more photovoltaic systems and then in those certain times, yes, they're going to have to turn back their output. But in other times, they're going to be able to generate and put out Page 10 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 to the system, so there's got to be a change in the mindset with respect to curtailment and how we manage the renewables. With respect to smart— MR. RICHARDS: Could I stop you? A quick question that if I'm hearing, if I'm understanding what I'm hearing, it's essentially looking at your number where we're talking about the 185 peak, but you have 270 basically about 50 percent standby, just if by chance everybody flip the switch at the same time. And I understand you have to be able to handle that. Is that what you're referring to with the PV (Photovoltaic) in the same way, having a little bit of redundancy in there? MR. IGNACIO: We have generators on standby. We have fast -start diesels that we don't run normally, but if you have a sudden disconnect of part of the power system so you lose that generation, we can quickly start those standby diesels in a matter of seconds. They're part of that 270. We always have units on overhaul, so you may have 30 megawatts of generation on overhaul, you may have 60 megawatts of generation on overhaul, that's part of the 270. So we don't always have that full amount of standby available, but it's a good way to manage, having that ability. See, we don't have, like mainland utilities, you can interconnect, and then you can say, "Well I'm going to take my generator off, can you have yours available?" And you partner that way. We don't have that, we have to do all of it on island. With respect to photovoltaic, part of the challenge is managing right near your neighborhood. So, when you have lots of generation in your neighborhood, it has a tendency to drive the voltage up. So the newer inverters have the ability to sense the voltage, sense what the output wants to go to, but also manage the voltage. Currently, we just let the inverters maximize their output, and then we have to put on devices out on the system. We have to make modifications to the distribution system in the neighborhood to lower, drive down the voltage. Well that adds cost. If everyone can manage their voltage they're generating and they're managing their voltage, I think it's a more efficient way of managing the power system. So you have to follow the rules, the physics in order to participate and self -generate. And I see in doing it that way, you're actually opening it up more opportunities for more people, even if on occasion, you're going to have to turn down their output. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. And then comment on the safety. MR. IGNACIO: With respect to smart inverters, again, we're talking about a program where it's voluntary participation. But if you're going to participate with self -generation or you're going to participate with demand response, you're going to need a smart meter. The concern people have with smart meters is this is going Page 11 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 to need a way to communicate to the meter and the current technology, and the leading model is wireless form of communication. So there is a certain sector of customers that are concerned about that wireless, that radio frequency communication. You know, these devices are tested, they're you know, checked out for all of those concerns. We, as a utility, don't see it that way, but there's a sector of customers that do have concerns because of the radio frequency. That sector of customers would prefer a different type of communication, maybe a fiber optic cable to the particular device. Maybe long term in the future, you might have fiber to the home, of every home, but currently, no. The more economical way of deploying is through radio frequency, RF, so that's the concern that they have. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you, and I'm sensitive to your timeline here. One other quick question, I'm sure you've done the math on this one. Question been posed to me, using an electric car, recharging, when we're using fossil fuel to generate electricity to recharge that car, what's our efficiency rate there and are we actually doing a good job or is this token? And once we go to renewables, it'll make more sense. MR. IGNACIO: Well currently, like I said, on average it's 54 percent renewable. When you charge a car, I think that's a big part of our attraction on our system because people get frustrated, this is why electrify your vehicle, if you're using nearly 100 percent fossil fuel. But on our system, it's 50 percent. So I think it's a good situation to be in and we're going to move forward. We've run economics, is it lower cost versus gas? And our economic shows it does, but you also have other people that run a different set of economics and say it doesn't. But from our calculations, we show that it does pan out. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, well let's say we could probably keep you here all day, but we're not going to do that. So if there's anything else from Hilo Chambers seeing nothing, Kona Chambers, anything further? With that, I want to thank you very much for coming before us. Very informative, very enlightening in some aspects so with that, I'll call for the vote. Vote on Comm. 390: The motion to close file on Comm. 390 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, O'Hara, Poindexter, Ruggles, and Chair Richards — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Lee Loy — 1. Excused: None. Page 12 AWESC-6 August 15, 2017 MR. RICHARDS: With that, thank you. Clerk, is that everything we had to do? ADJOURN There being no further business, at 11:52 a.m., Ms. Eoff moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. David and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, O'Hara, Poindexter, Ruggles, and Chair Richards — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Lee Loy — 1. Excused: None. CHR. RICHARDS: We stand adjourned. Thank you. Approved: AlkAUG 2 5 2017 Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair (Date) Agriculture, Water, and Energy Sustainability Committee HR/j m Page 13