HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN EMC 2017/03/21 2016-2018COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT
3rd Session
West Hawaii Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
March 21, 2017
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at
ORDER: 1:37 p.m. in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair.
R(1T T CAT r
Present: Ms.
Eileen O'Hara, Chair
Mr.
Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Vice Chair
Mr.
Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms.
Maile Medeiros David, Member
Ms.
Karen Eoff, Member
Mr.
Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member
Ms.
Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Ms.
Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Ms.
Jennifer Ruggles, Member
CHR. O'HARA: We will be taking testimony first but before we do, I wanted to
ask the Council if they would entertain or allow me to switch up the order on the
agenda and take Comm. 163 prior to going to Comm. 116. If that's okay? Okay,
great.
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by
the Chair:
Margaret Wille:
Joyce A. Folena:
Gregory T. Smith:
Comm. 163, in support; and
Comm. 116, in opposition.
Comm. 116, in support; and
Comm. 163, comment.
Comm. 116, in support; and
Comm. 163, comment.
EMC -3 March 21, 2017
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following item was taken out of order.
Comm. 163: REQUESTS DISCUSSION WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT'S RECYCLING COORDINATOR
TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE OF THE DEPARTMENT'S VARIOUS
RECYCLING PROGRAMS
From Council Member Eileen O'Hara, dated March 2, 2017
Motion to Close File: Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 163.
Seconded by Ms. Eoff
CHR. O'HARA: Alright. We have with us today, I believe, our new Recycling
Coordinator and I'm going to ask Mr. Kurcharski from the Department of
Environmental Management, our Director, to come forward and introduce our
new Recycling Coordinator. I see Greg Goodale is here, as well. And so
gentlemen, please.
(Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Bruce
Kucharski, Solid Waste Division Chief Greg Goodale, and Recycling
Coordinator George Hayducsko came forward to address the members of
the Committee.)
MR. KURCHARSKL Yes, Council. It's a pleasure to be here and to introduce
our new Recycling Coordinator, George Hayducsko. And he isI am going to let
him speak for himself and I'm going to have Greg come up with here with much
more intimate knowledge, so that any questions you have can be answered with
more skill then I can muster.
CHR. O'HARA: Thank you and before you leave Bill, can you give us the
spelling on that last name.
MR. HAYDUCSKO: I definitely can, it's
CHR. O'HARA: Oh, you have it there. Okay. We do have it in front of us, I
didn't see it yet, but thank you.
MR. HAYDUCSKO: Sure. Well, if you don't mind, I can give a brief overview
of my background if that's appropriate.
CHR. O'HARA: That would be great. Thank you.
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March 21, 2017
MR. HAYDUCSKO: Okay, well hopefully you don't hold this against me. I was
raised in New Jersey. You're not showing me the door on me already, are you?
CHR. O'HARA: I came from Delaware.
MR. HAYDUCSKO: Oh, okay. Oh close, very close. Then went to school in
Wisconsin, raised our two boys in Wisconsin and while I was in Wisconsin I was
offered the opportunity to be a Solid Waste Coordinator or Director for three
different counties. I have 28 years in the industry; the first County I was in was
Oneida County. First recycling coordinator, actually solid waste coordinator for
them.
They had a landfill like many municipalities do, like you have here and I had the
opportunity to design and manage the first recycling program there. A very
successful program, still operating and then my next County was in St. Croix
County, which is close to Minneapolis/St. Paul, in Minnesota. So it's right on the
border. There we had a Waste to Energy facility for the waste. So I managed that
program, but again the County wanted to start up a recycling program and had the
opportunity to design and manage that recycling program also.
My last County was Dunn County, and was there for approximately 18 years, so
most of my Solid Waste recycling career. They already had a recycling program
but I was able to come in and improve that program. I had a great working
relationship with the policy makers. There it's the County Board of Supervisors.
The community as a whole, the industry of business institutions, we had the
university there, one of the Wisconsin Universities and we were able to make
enormous changes and improvements to the program over those 18 years. But it
was because of the community's help and the support of the policy makers.
Greg will tell you, it was very difficult for me to leave there. I loved my job, I
loved the people I was working with. But we decided to come to Hawaii, and I
would retire.
Well, wouldn't you know, I show up in Hilo and I still felt as though I have more
to give, more to offer and I decided to apply for job of being the Recycling
Coordinator. And that's how I'm in front of you today, my fourth day, is because
I feel I have something to offer. The people that I've met within the year being
here are wonderful people. The aloha spirit is definitely is alive here in Hawaii
and I certainly want to be a part of that, if I can be.
CHR. O'HARA: Thank you very much for that background. I'll let you decide
how you want to proceed. You don't have a PowerPoint that's going to show on
the slide? Right?
MR. HAYDUCSKO: We should.
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March 21, 2017
CHR. O'HARA: Are we prepped for that?
MR. KURCHARSKL Yeah, I believe we gave our PowerPoint to the Clerk.
CHR. O'HARA: Do we have that in Hilo? I don'tI'm not.
MR. KURCHARSKL There it is.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay. There we go, great, great. Thank you.
MR. KURCHARSKL Thanks, I already made it past the first slide.
(Note: At this time, Mr. Hayducsko proceeded with a PowerPoint
presentation on display for the members of the Committee. For viewing
of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings
on file in the Clerk's office. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is
made a part of the record, see Comm. 163.2.)
CHR. O'HARA: Alright, thank you, thank you, George. I'm still struggling with
the last name, but if it's okay I'll call you George? Okay, thank you, George.
MR. HAYDUCSKO: That is fine.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay, with that do you have anything to add, Greg? Before I
open it up for questions?
MR. GOODALL I'd just like to add, you know, as George said it's been four
days on the job for him and he's had a lot material to try and digest in that short
amount of time, trying to get out in the field a bit. Fortunately for George, he has
been here on the island for over a year now and so he's got a pretty good sense of
Hawaii Island. But you know, for us as the Solid Waste Division, we're very
happy to have someone like George on board and you know we're looking
forward to great things to come. So that's the only thing that I'd like to add at this
time. Thanks.
CHR. O'HARA: Alright, I'm about to open it up for questions here but have you
been able to visit a1121 transfer stations yet, George?
MR. HAYDUCSKO: Absolutely not.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay.
MR. HAYDUCSKO: I look forward to it.
CHR. O'HARA: Oh, yeah.
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MR HAYDUCSKO: Correction, it's 22.
CHR. O'HARA: Twenty two, okay. Thank you. Alright. Looking for anyone
that has their hand up. Nobody? Okay, Mr. Kanuha.
MR. KANUHA: Thank you, and welcome. It's great to see you on staff and I
know you have a lot of experience, so really looking forward to how you can
bring different ideas from where you came from to what we have here in Hawaii
County. I know you just did an overview, a brief overview, about what's really
being recycled on Hawaii Island. But the question that we're going to have in
the future when we start going through budget is how much does all this cost?
And I know you stated within your presentation that you're really looking forward
to money generating in certain of these programs, but I know we spend a lot of
money on recycling. Just basically, approximately how much are we talking
about to do all these programs. I know, you—Greg.
MR. GOODALE: So no that's a great question, and you know, unfortunately I
didn't bring our budget for the coming year. But when we get into, you know,
budget hearings and that, I'll be happy to answer any kind of questions you folks
might have. But as you said it is an expensive program. You know, I mean when
you look at the two -bin program, I can just tell you it's up over $1 million dollars
to run that program per year just for you know, removal of the materials from the
various transfer stations.
But at the same time, when you look at what the value is in terms of keeping that
material out of the landfills, and I think George, you know, pointed out some of
these things have a little bit of an intangible, like the used oil. It's, you know, it's
hard, I mean I know there are probably attorneys out there that can place dollar
values on oil and drinking water, but the same time, you know, for us, we know
that there is a value in these kinds of programs to the people on this island. But it
all does come down to dollars and cents. But you know, we do all the budget
numbers that we can provide.
MR. KANUHA: Okay. And it was just a question, I didn't know if you just
didn't want to put that in this program right now or we'll going to deal with that
later on. Which I know we'll go through it pretty thoroughly during budget
session hearing. But that's kind of more in what I probably want to talk about.
So, I'll save my questions for our future budget hearings. But mahalo and
welcome. You know, I'm really looking forward to it.
MR HAYDUCSKO: Thank you. Thank you for the warm greeting.
MR. KANUHA: I yield.
CHR. O'HARA: Alright. Did I see your hand up? Okay. Go ahead.
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MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you, Chair. And welcome on board to the most
difficult task. Greenwaste, when we talk about transfer stations island -wide that
their collecting, when I was looking at our map, I don't see you know the Ka`u
district and the Hamakua district is kind of left out of the mix. If you look at
greenwaste, Hamakua has a lot of greenwaste. Where is it going right now? You
know, most of it probably in gulches, or I've seen some dumped over guardrails
and in communities, you know. So I would encourage you to look at the sites,
because it's not really island -wide yet. So look at that, I would just ask you,
please.
MR. HAYDUCSKO: Oh, thank you. I'll be looking at that and yep, hopefully
we'll see if it's viable.
MR. POINDEXTER: Yeah and the opportunity for recycling at each of our
transfer stations in the rural communities, especially yeah. Thank you.
CHR. O'HARA: Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Like everybody else, welcome. I think
we're starting a tradition here because I believe Bill was on the job two or three
days when he came before us. I think we're traditionally doing that and we're
also getting people with names we can't pronounce or even spell. So, thank you,
Bill, for bringing that forward to us.
With that being said we talk about the Big Island and it's really more like running
a little continent rather than a County because we have to deal with shipping in
and shipping out and that's a challenge. You know, you highlighted the point,
usually, waste metals are profitable, not a liability and we're faced with that. And
you know, listening to my other Council Members, when we look at this, we have
a finite land mass. Well actually, I think we're only place in the nation that
actually are growing our land mass but not at a rate fast enough to deal with our
waste problem.
Having a comprehensive plan, and I think that's pretty much what we're talking
about here going forward, we can do short term planning which will kind of
bridge some things and get us there. But my interest is looking at our solid waste
management 50 years from now, where we're going to be then. I know we can do
some short-term things to deal with that. But and the Director and I had those
conversations, trying to figure out what the true plan is and walking towards that,
rather than trying to run towards a quick answer.
I may be politically positive to have those quick answers, but to get those real
answers, that's my concern. You talk about all the recycling thing, you know. I
have to admit looking at the oil and all that, that's great. I can see the trends are
going up. We have the greenwaste management and that conversation coming
forward. I look forward to a very comprehensive retooling or looking at our solid
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waste management as a whole, because I think if we don't do that, and start
planning it now we're going to have problems 20 years from now. I mean, we
can get by for awhile but that's certainly not what I want to do, I want to get this
thing resolved so it's all positive going forward. I hear what Councilman Kanuha
said concerning the dollars and cents side, that we have to pay attention to that.
But anyway, thank you again, for being here.
MR. HAYDUCSKO: Well, thank you and great insight. Yeah, I completely
agree 100 percent, you have to deal with the short term but we should be looking
at the fifty years or even longer what to expect to happen here with the materials.
So, excellent points.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you, Councilman Richards. Okay, Councilwoman
Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Hi. Thank you, and welcome. I just have a real quick question
and it's related to the Solid Waste Management Plan, I know you identified that
as part of your future recycling programs. I was just wondering what the timeline
was. I know it's required to be updated every 10 years, so I was wondering if you
just had a ballpark timeline as far as when you would initiate that.
MR. GOODALE: So yeah, the plan would need to be finalized by 2019. So
that's why we're in the process now of beginning the selection for consultant to
assist the County with getting that plan going but yeah, the last one came out was
in 2009.
CHR. O'HARA: Alright, that's it? Any other questions from this side? Okay,
seeing none. I do have a couple questions myself. And George, so you know, full
disclosure, I was the County's first Recycling Coordinator. So, I served in `03 to
`06 to stream -sort. They fought me. They said, "Oh, that will never work, you've
got to separate everything," and blah, blah. So, I'm glad it's been working. At
one point we were making money off our scrap metal but that's when used metal
prices were through the roof and China was buying up everything because we did
green pricing and tied it to the market and I hope that's still how we're doing our
contracts, I don't know. If it's to our advantage anyway. But yeah, we could talk
and I hope that you come by and we have a meeting, because I'm really interested
in talking with you more.
I do have a question and this relates to, I think it's something I read in the paper
about your Recycling Coordinator position being grant funded. Was that accurate
information? Does anybody, I didn't think that was the case.
MR. GOODALE: No, the Recycling Coordinator position is not grant funded.
There are two positions, one—well, they're both HI -5 Coordinator positions. The
Recycling Specialist Ihne of them is 100 percent grant funded and we're in
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recruitment for that; and the other one is, the funding all comes from the State,
the HI -5 program, but it's actually a full-time County position.
CHR. O'HARA: Alright. Well thank you, I and that recruitment is active, it's
not one of the ones that we're sitting on right now. Is it?
MR. HAYDUCSKO: It's not out on the—it's in the process of getting it out, so
it's being worked on, but yeah.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay. Okay. George needs the help. Alright, seeing no other
questions. Oh wait, okay.
MR. RICHARDS: Go ahead.
CHR. O'HARA: Mr. Richards. Councilman Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah. Thank you, Council Chair or Committee Chair.
George you've had enough time to look through some of these numbers that what
we're doing and relative to your experience, our recycling programs unpar with
what you've seen in the past? Are we lagging or we're ahead of the curve? Or
are we with that? I realize you're fresh on the job and all that but
MR. HAYDUCSKO: Overall I would say that the recycling numbers are positive
but doesn't mean that we still can't improve. Well, getting back to the budget
issue, you know, I've always been good at designing and managing programs to
utilize the funds, the most we can. So, my goal is to, you know, look at the funds
and see if we can capture more material with the money we already have. So that
is my goal but I have to say yes, the numbers look good. You should feel proud
to be a citizen in on the County Council for this program. It's working really
well.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, alright. Thanks, appreciate that.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay, Ms. Lee Loy, do you have one more question there?
MS. LEE LOY: I do. I got to thinking about how, you know, part of the Solid
Waste Management Plan also includes the closure of the Hilo facility, and with
that closure, there's a closure plan. And then I got to thinking about well, as we
start closing that site I'm sure there's going to be some recyclables that are
actually in that facility. So following that train of thought, is there a plan or will
there be a plan to sort out some of the recyclables that are currently in the East
Hawaii Landfill that could be pulled out? Does that make sense?
MR. GOODALE: Yeah, it makes sense. So, just to answer that, you know,
simply, the State of Hawaii frowns on mining landfills for several reasons: for
environmental reasons and also safety reasons. It has been done in other states
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but it is a very—it's a hazardous issue that's you know, we're talking about a
landfill that began, you know, when a lot of these different regulations weren't
around such as Subtitle B which it requires a liner like we have in the West
Hawaii Landfill. So very unlikely that we will be going back at into the South
Hilo Landfill to do any kind of mining.
CHR. O'HARA: Alright, thank you. And one last question. What is our
recycling rate, diversion from landfill rate, right now?
MR. GOODALE: So the current, as of what we released to the State and our
annual operating reports. One of the things that we were able to get when we
were doing our diversion incentive programs was, it was getting some of the
recyclers such as like, you know, the companies like Walmart that are already
shipping a lot of their cardboard off island, it allows us on some of those cases to
be able capture some of those numbers that we aren't able to get. So short, the
answer to your question is it's a little bit lower than it's been, we're probably
down around like 28 percent, we're a little less than 30 percent right now.
I believe that number to be higher than that but the problem is we are unable to
get that data because there's no real incentive for those folks to provide that to the
County. There's no requirement for them to give us the numbers on what their
shipping off island. So, we know that there's some of these retailers that are
sending large volumes of recyclables to the mainland but we're not getting those
numbers just because they are not inclined to want to release them to us. So, like
I said the number as of right now is about 28 percent.
CHR. O'HARA: Alright. And that is including what information you are getting
from the retailers that are back -shipping card board and things like that? That
28 percent?
MR. HAYDUCSKO: That's just including the numbers for the programs that the
County has.
CHR. O'HARA: Oh, okay.
MR. HAYDUCSKO: Looking at the overall waste stream and looking at the
programs the County has. So like I said, if we were able capture some of those
numbers and know specifically what they were, my belief is that diversion
number would be higher than 28 percent.
CHR. O'HARA: Correct but that gives me a benchmark to look back, you know,
10 years, 11 years. I know, when I left the position in 2006, we were at 27-28
percent diversion from landfill. So we seem to be on static path right now and I
think we can do better. But I'm glad you're on board, George. Okay, I think
Ms. Lee Loy has one last question.
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MS. LEE LOY: Hi. Thank you. I just had one follow-up question. Mr. Goodale
mentioned that about the mining. Does that also apply to the transfer stations? So
people who are just throwing at the transfer and then getting hauled? Cause my
question was related to the East Hawaii. In closing, does mining also apply to
what we're throwing at some place like Honoka`a transfer station?
MR. HAYDUCSKO: Okay, so big difference between going back into the
landfill and removing materials out of that and sorting through the materials it
might be coming into something like a transfer station or the sort station in Hilo.
So, you know, we do intend to scale up our sorting capabilities in East Hawaii
because we want to be able to try and only send the things to the landfill that
really belong in the landfill. So you know, our goal is going to be trying to ramp
up our efforts to do more sorting.
So when you look at what George talked about is far as things like the—you
know, all these things, and you know, these are discussions George and I have
had, is there are all efforts to try to divert things away from the landfill. If you
look at everything that's in common with all the things that were on list, it's all an
effort to try to keep these things out of the landfill. So for us it makes economic
sense obviously, to not be hauling material to the landfill that don't need to go
there. So we're going to be, you know, increasing our efforts to try and sort
through those and remove the materials that we can.
CHR. O'HARA: Alright. Thank you. Council Woman David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. Welcome, George. I'm not going to attempt
your last name either; and Greg, thanks for being here. I just wanted to clarify
one thing, or two things. On the greenwaste collection at transfer stations, didn't
we not have collection at Waiohinu and Ke`ei and those were transferred to yeah
Pu`uanahulu.
MR. GOODALL Yeah, and that's correct, that Ke`ei site did get omitted from
our list. Waiohinu has not yet begun collecting greenwaste. That is one our sites
we've identified that we'd like to start getting greenwaste collected. Two sites
that were added to the list was Volcano and Waimea. So those are two sites that
had not had greenwaste collection in the past, but Waiohinu is one that we're
intending to add for greenwaste collection.
MS. DAVID: And what would be the timeline on the Waiohinu Station?
MR. GOODALL It's probably going to coincide with when we rebuild that site.
Which should be happening over the course of this next year.
MS. DAVID: Okay, so, the Ke`ei, is there any reason why it was discontinued, I
know that spot was very
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MR. GOODALL It's not discontinued, it just got left off the list. So, we do
collect at Ke`ei now.
MS. DAVID: Okay.
MR. GOODALL It was just omitted from the list
MS. DAVID: Oh, is it just a typo?
MR. GOODALL Yeah, yeah.
MS. DAVID: Okay.
MR. GOODALL Ke`ei should be. Yeah, I know, four days, we'll give him a
MR. HAYDUCSKO: My mistake.
MS. DAVID: I'll give him that. Thank you. I mean it's a typo.
MR. GOODALL Yeah.
MS. DAVID: Okay, great. Thank you very much.
MR. HAYDUCSKO: I'll take full blame.
MS. DAVID: Alright. Okay, so Ke`ei is still open.
MR. GOODALL Yes, it is.
MS. DAVID: Perfect, thank you. Thanks a lot. Aloha. I yield.
CHR. O'HARA: Alright, anymore questions? Seeing none, I'm going to thank
you for coming over. This has been great and I look forward to working with you
in the future, and great things can happen when we all work together and set our
minds to it. And we need to increase that diversion rate with or without the
additional numbers from the retailers. We do need to keep pushing that number
up. Okay, with that said I will ask—seeing no more questions, can we please
have all in favor of filing this communication. Say "aye."
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Vote on Comm. 163
March 21, 2017
The motion to close file on Comm. 163 was carried by the
Filed following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kanuha, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards,
Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. O'HARA: We're now going to continue on an item that was recessed from
the last Environmental Management Committee, and that's Communication 116.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business.
Of Business:
Comm. 116
Recess:
Reconvene:
REQUEST DISCUSSION REGARDING MAYOR HARRY KIM'S
POSSIBLE CANCELLATION/TERMINATION OF THE CONTRACT FOR
THE COUNTY COMPOSTING FACILITY, AS REPORTED IN THE
FEBRUARY 5. 2017_ ARTICLE IN THE HAWAII TRIBUNE
From Council Members Aaron S. Y. Chung and Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated
February 13, 2017.
Postponed: March 7, 2017
(Note: There is a motion by Mr. Chung, seconded by Mr. Kanuha, to close file
on Comm. 116.
CHR. O'HARA: As we enter into this discussion, it may be necessary for us to
enter in to an Executive Session. I'm just forewarning folks that are here that
means we have to, you know, shutter the meeting. So if that happens forgive us,
but we will get back into public session. And I want to also tell everyone that we
had some extra communications that were presented to you around lunch time.
Some of them are marked confidential and they're only forI mean they are for
Executive Session purposes. So I want to take a very short recess of 10 minutes
just so everybody can make sure that they've looked through all the materials
that we're going to be discussing in this communication. Alright. We're in
recess.
At 2:40 p.m. the Chair called for a recess.
The meeting reconvened at 2:48 p.m.
CHR. O'HARA: After our recess, I hope everybody had the opportunity
to review the communications that just came in front of them, because these are
going to be somewhat important. And I'm going to see if there's any discussion
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on this communication in front of us that we can have here in public session.
Does anybody have any questions before no? I don't know where Jen is. No?
Okay.
MR. KANUHA: I mean, yes.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay.
MR. KANUHA: Just for our attention, you know there was septa letter was
sent, and the public's attention by Kai Kahele and Chris Todd, and I'm sure the
public knows about that and everybody knows about that. So as long that
everybody got that letter, I'm all good.
CHR. O'HARA: Yes, I think that was numbered—communication number.
Senator Kahele and Representative Chris Todd.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. KAMELAMELA: Oh, okay. Thank you.
CHR. O'HARA: And with that, Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Yes, thank you, Madam Chairman and I'm going to have to seek
guidance from you and others on this body. But we received—well the last time
we had this discussion, Mayor Kim said that we had to take a look at the memo
from Bill Kurcharski who is our DEM (Department of Environmental
Management) Director. That would fully explain his reasons, his general reasons.
I'm even going to go even as far as saying cryptic reasons for cancelling this.
MR. KAMELAMELA: At this time—
MR. CHUNG: Joe. Hold it.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Excuse me. No, no, no, wait.
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman.
MR. KAMELAMELA: What was given to you was the attorney-client
privilege
CHR. O'HARA: Excuse me.
MR. KAMELAMELA: —and you're not to state anything. No, I am sorry.
CHR. O'HARA: Mr. Kamelamela, I am Chairing, so let me take back the
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MR. KAMELAMELA: I understand.
CHR. O'HARA: But I will give you the right to speak. But let's just—
MR. KAMELAMELA: But let's just get it to Executive Session.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay, well let's not rush things.
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman?
CHR. O'HARA: Yes.
MR. CHUNG: You know, Joe, you have a really bad habit of interrupting people,
okay. So, will you please cut it out? You are the people's attorney but that does
not give you license
MR. KAMELAMELA: No, no.
MR. CHUNG: to interrupt us.
MR. KAMELAMELA: No, no I am
MR. CHUNG: Again, here you go interrupting.
MR. KAMELAMELA: May I speak?
CHR. O'HARA: When he has completed what he wanted to say.
MR. KAMELAMELA: I don't because—
CHR. O'HARA: No, Joe. Mr. Kamelamela.
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman, I have the floor right?
CHR. O'HARA: Yes, I have given him the floor, so let him complete. I will let
you respond. Okay. Thank you.
MR. CHUNG: Mayor Kim made reference to a memo from Bill Kucharski to
him which would explain everything. We've received it.
CHR. O'HARA: Yes.
MR. CHUNG: It's stamped or typed "Privileged and Confidential," and it
doesn't—it also includes other communications.
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CHR. O'HARA: Correct.
MR. CHUNG: My question is, why is it privileged, why is it confidential?
CHR. O'HARA: If you're asking me for the answer, I can't give it to you. But I
can turn the floor over to Mr. Kamelamela and perhaps he can respond.
MR. KAMELAMELA: I'm sorry that I interrupted you. But you know, I've
always believed, you know, when I see a process that's wrong, it's my duty to
state something. So, I apologize to you, Mr. Chung. Now, in order for me to
actually explain, it's better to do it in Executive Session, because in the Executive
Session, although you might feel that something is cryptic, I can explain it. I have
something else to show the Council too.
So give me the opportunity to talk to each one of the Council, because this
contract is a big contract. There is no question in my mind of the importance of
this contract. You know, and there's no question in my mind from the testimonies
that I hear that the mulching is good, that we're going to do the composting.
There's no question in my mind in that. But the communication itself, you know,
say let's have a discussion. Part of what I know about the communication, let's
talk about the legal issues. This is something of critical importance, it's
significant. And so it's up to the Council, if they do not want to go into Executive
Session, that's fine with me.
Whatever material that I've given to the County Clerk to give to this Council to
look and deliberate it, that's okay too. Because you know why, if you vote not to
go into Executive Session, I'm going to leave. And that's how it is. But I'm sure
that the County Council Members want to hear what I have to say, because I hear
a lot of thing in public and it's wrong. I read a lot of things in public and it's
wrong. So a lot of people, you know, have their own opinions. Well, let's go into
Executive Session, let me provide a perspective. But I cannot stand
grandstanding when it's such an important issue for this County. Cannot stand it.
I represent the County, and I apologize to you again, Mr. Chung. I believe that
you are my friend, so let's keep it that way. Sometimes when I talk loud because
it's just the way I am. It's not to, you know, disparage or make people scared,
you know. But you know, so I apologize to that too, because sounds like I'm
getting loud, you know, but I'm not angry. Okay, I think if people really want to
know why it's the way it is right now, I can talk to each one of you, answer every
single question you have. You may disagree with me, that's fine, because that's
how we have always respected each other. And I share the same respect to you,
Chair.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay. Well thank you, Mr. Kamelamela. I appreciate the
response. I am going to call for a motion if someone was—what you have
another response? Mr. Chung.
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March 21, 2017
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, Madam Chairman. Look, I have no problem with an
Executive Session.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay.
MR. CHUNG: That's not the question I asked. But in as much as the people's
attorney is going to be leaving if we don't go into Executive Session. I'm
certainly more to listen to what he has to say because what he says is he has
something in addition to this that he would like to tell us. So, I'm kind of curious
as to what he has to say. So, I have no problem with going into Executive
Session. But that's really not the question that I asked.
CHR. O'HARA: No, it is not. I understand that, thank you. And I unfortunately
I have no ability to answer to answer that question because it's not my
communication.
MR. CHUNG: Right, right. So, I'll be supporting that but I really take exception
to any kind of inferences or insinuation that's there grandstanding going on over
here.
CHR. O'HARA: No, I understand.
MR. CHUNG: Thank you.
CHR. O'HARA: And I will go back to askingoh, you have a question? Okay,
Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Mr. Kamelamela and maybe for my other colleagues, because
we have received a number of communications. Some were not marked
confidential, and I'm specifically speaking to Communication 116.3. It's
addressed to our Chair dated March 17, and it was the contract for the EA
(Environmental Assessment). And I have a question to that, and I don't know if I
ask it now, or we're going to ask those questions in
CHR. O'HARA: It's not a confidential document, so if you want to go ahead and
ask the question that seems.
MR. KAMELAMELA: But I'm going to refer to it in the discussion, because it's
kind of important. I'll try to see if I can field the question
MS. LEE LOY: Okay, let me go ahead and ask the question. In that
communication in a letter from PBR Hawaii, it's the proposal to provide
planning services, in the second paragraph, it states, "Although the minimum
scope of the EA is subject for the four parcels"
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March 21, 2017
MR. KAMELAMELA: Sorry, which page you're on?
MS. LEE LOY: This is looks like page five, it's the attached Exhibit A.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Oh, scope of work. Thank you.
MS. LEE LOY: The scope of work. We're on paragraph two. It says, "Although
the maximum scope of the EA is for four subject parcels." I read a lot, and I don't
know how they came up with the four parcels.
MR. KAMELAMELA: And that's a good question because all of that parcels is
in Hawaiian Homes' lands.
MS. LEE LOY: And what was the evaluation for those four parcels?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Let me see if Mr. Goodale could answer that one.
(Note: At this time, Solid Waste Division Chief Greg Goodale came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. GOODALE: Greg Goodale, Solid Waste Division Chief. The question is
about the four parcels?
MS. LEE LOY: Yes, so I guess to bring it into context a little bit, I understand
there was this large contract. There were two parts: Phase I, mulching piece; and
Phase 2, in -vessel composting facility. The in -vessel composting facility required
the preparation and processing of environmental assessment. So then you guys
sent out an RFP (Request for Proposals), correct me if I'm wrong, to have
someone do the Environmental assessment. When I read the scope from PBR,
four subject parcels were already identified. I wanted to understand how those
four parcels were evaluated and proposed to be the sites to be evaluated?
MR. GOODALE: So, okay. So backing up. First of all, the selection for the
company that do the EA, PBR was done through a professional services selection
process, not an RFP, but similar. So the parcels, the primary subject parcel is
immediately adjacent to the existing South Hilo Sanitary Landfill. As a matter of
fact, it was a site that was originally selected as potential landfill expansion.
There were three parcels to the south of that parcel. So all of the land out there is
all done through executive order through the State. The parcel, the primary parcel
that was being looked at is a parcel that has already been EO'd (Executive
Ordered) to the County and at was the one that was being looked at as part of the
future potential expansion for South Hilo.
The other three parcels were parcels that we have been in discussion with DLNR
(State Department of Land and Natural Resources) that are available, that the
County expressed interest in getting an EO for the three parcels. As a matter of
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March 21, 2017
fact, we've got an action in before DNLR which would consolidate all the EO's
under one EO for the whole—that would cover all the parcels which includes the
Hilo Transfer Station, I mean it's a pretty expansive area. But it just simplified it
for the County to have all those parcels. And those three parcels that I was
talking about were available at the time. So, right now what we have with those
parcels is just a construction right of entry in case somebody needed to go in there
and take a look at the land, is all that allows for.
But the primary reason for the subject parcel that PBR was focusing on was
because of its proximity to the existing landfill and that it had been in long-term
planning documents as to that use. The one reason why that's no longer being
evaluated for an expansion to the landfill is due to the proximity to the airport.
And in the discussions we had with the State Department of Transportation, due
to the potential for vector attractant, that's no longer being considered as a landfill
space. But because it had been within the overall waste management for the
County is why that was focused on for the EA. So, sorry for the long, drawn
out
MS. LEE LOY: So, I just want to make this clear that the primary factor that this
site was picked was because of proximity.
MR. GOODALL Proximity is one reason. It also is because it had been in other
evaluations. It had been part of that overall planning for the County. So not only
proximity, but also in terms of the services expected to be provided by the
County. So, it was within that matrix.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay so in the evaluation steps, location or proximity to the
existing East Hawaii facility, surrounding uses, and then at what point was the
adjacent residents given consideration in this matrix or checklist of picking a site?
MR. GOODALL I guess what I can speak to is the land uses that are in existence
right now. We also knew one of the things that had occurred prior to the EA that
the County did for that site was the Mass Transit had just had an EA done for that
site, which met with a FONSI (Finding Of No Significant Impact). So looking at
all of these things, you know, we felt there had been adequate consideration given
for the land uses.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. Any other questions you want to put forth
before I call for a motion for Executive Session?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Chair, can I make one more statement?
CHR. O'HARA: Yes, Mr. Kamelamela.
MR. KAMELAMELA: It's my bad that I used the word "grandstanding." So you
know, I'm really sorry for saying that.
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March 21, 2017
CHR. O'HARA: Okay, okay. And Mr. Goodale with regards to these four
parcels, I understand the three that were not considered were not it would still
have to go through Executive Order, whereas the one site that was considered has
already been awarded to the County through Executive Orders, is that correct?
Did I understand that correctly?
MR. GOODALL Yes, that is correct. The three parcels had not been EO'd to us
at this time. One of the things that we were waiting on to do the whole
consolidation was the completion of the EA. But at this time there is no
requirement from DLNR that you do an EA to the EO.
CHR. O'HARA: An EA to EO.
MR. GOODALL The EA to EO, so there's no requirement to get an EA done
just to do an Executive Order.
CHR. O'HARA: And these three other parcels have been in previous uses such
as quarries or other things like that?
MR. GOODALL Correct, there were all parcels that had been quarried out
through leases that DLNR had with the local aggregate companies.
CHR. O'HARA: I just wanted to clarify that. Thank you. Okay, with that I
would like to call for a motion to go into Executive Session.
MR. HENRICKS: Pardon me, I'm so sorry. I know you're ready to go but I
know this is a postponed session.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: We just don't really have a lot of context for why the motion
is about to be made. I know there's a lot of communication stuff, and an
Executive Session is totally viable, but only for the record and to kind of let the
public know why the Council can't talk in open session. So, I didn't hear
anything yet. So sorry, pardon me.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay, and I'll try to summarize that. In our last meeting in
Hilo, we were addressed by Mayor Kim, regarding his reasons for terminating the
greenwaste organics diversion contract. And he kept referring to a document that
was a report from the Director of DEM, Mr. Kucharski, and when we asked for
that report, we were told we would receive it, which everyone on Council did but
it was presented to us as a confidential document, and this is one of the reasons
Councilman Chung has been asking the question as to why that is labeled as a
confidential document? It was an analysis that was done by Mr. Kucharski in
February, early February, before the Mayor met with the company that is
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currently under contract. It was in addition to Mr. Kucharski's cost comparison
analysis, there is also an analysis by Deputy Corporation Counsel Belinda Hall,
and that refers to the conditions under which the County could possibility
consider a termination.
So, when that was presented to us as a confidential document, in order for us to
have a discussion with Mr. Kamelamela, it will be necessary under our rules to go
into Executive Session. Alright, so thank you. Okay, Councilman Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Just a point of clarification, not just confidential, but it's also
labeled "privileged," separate concepts. And also Mr. Kamelamela referenced in
open session that there is actually something in addition to all of this that he is
going to be telling us.
CHR. O'HARA: That's correct.
MR. CHUNG: That he's going to really elaborate on.
CHR. O'HARA: And we have also received additional information that is
labeled "confidential," and that came from the attorney for the company that is
currently under contract.
MR. CHUNG: Thank you.
CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. Alright, Ms. Eoff Council Woman Eoff
MS. EOFF: Well thank you Madam Chair, and if there is no further discussion
here in open session, and in order to further our discussion, it seems necessary to
go into Executive Session.
Vote on Motion Ms. Eoff moved to enter into Executive Session in order to
to Enter into hold attorney-client privilege discussion regarding
Executive Session: Comm. 116, as authorized by Section 92-5(a)(4), Hawaii
(Approved) Revised Statutes. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried
by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kanuha, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards,
Ruggles and Chair O'Hara — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. Seeing no objections, we'll go into Executive
Session and I'm going to have to give the recorder here a few seconds to switch
over the tapes. So we're in a short recess until that is done. Thank you.
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March 21, 2017
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Recess: At 3:12 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 5:43 p.m.
CHR. O'HARA: Okay, coming out of our Executive Session. It is I think 5:45,
5:43 p.m. Okay, and for the public's information, the Executive Session was
regarding some information that had been provided to us through Corporation
Counsel which was a the basis for—the Mayor claimed to be the basis for his
decision to terminate the greenwaste organic diversion composting contract for
termination for convenience. So, we had a pretty vigorous discussion, and the
Council is considering its future direction in regard to this contract. But right now
we are going to take a vote to close the communication. The motion is on the
floor, so any more discussion on this? Okay, Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, coming out of Executive Session, and Mr. Clerk, I'd
like to have a little bit of help on this one. Through our discussion and
conversations, I understand the need for confidentiality, but I'd like to propose a
motion that we make the discussion of our Executive Session public, so people
understand the conversation and I don't know if I can do that motion in this?
Mr. Clerk?
MR. HENRICKS: You can probably make whatever motion you want to. But as
far as waiving your, essentially, your attorney-client privilege, which is what we
are talking about when you go into Executive Session, we would probably need to
have something in front of us, such as minutes or something, that then you could
act upon that in a material way, as opposed to some kind of a because we didn't
record it on video.
MR. RICHARDS: Right.
MR. HENRICKS: You know, the transcript is pretty much the only record of the
discussion that will be available which will be minutes as part of this overall
meeting that we're having. So, we could look further into that, as far as the
ability to make the discussion available by way of minutes, and what that would
entail, as far as the Council having the ability to do that and how they would do
that.
MR. RICHARDS: And I would like to make a motion to explore that and see if
we can come up with a way of communicating what was discussed. Is that
possible?
MR. HENRICKS: I think that the Chair could take recommendation and then,
you know, we can just do that if the Chair, you know
CHR. O'HARA: This would be as a recommendation to the Chair, not as a
motion.
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March 21, 2017
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, yeah. I don't think you need to make a formal motion if
the request is for the Clerk's Office to essentially produce the transcripts of this
meeting in the form of minutes and then to provide you with information for as
for how you would go about essentially making the discussion in the Executive
Session available to the public, we can certainly look into that.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, I would like to ask the Chair that we explore this so
there's an understanding. And I totally respect that our Corp. Counsel is saying
about confidentiality, but I think it's important. So Chair, I yield.
CHR. O'HARA: Thank you and I will definitely take that under consideration. I
think we will see more actions related to—the Council may see more actions in
the Environmental Management Committee upcoming regarding this particular
decision by the Mayor to terminate the contact and so at that point we can address
your concerns as well. Okay, Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Before I make a second. Is that a motion?
CHR. O'HARA: No, he is asking, urging me to find a way to it public, and I am
offering to come back to the Council with a resolution, at least one resolution, at
our next Environmental Management Committee meeting. The Chair just
informed me, the County Council Chair, just informed me that she may be willing
to waive the deadline requirements so that we can get this done as soon as
possible. Okay, sure. Okay, any more discussion? Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: I do just want to offer this. This particular issue has already
been explored by the Office of Information Practices about executive transcripts
and the minutes and when they can be made available. So if I could just urge the
Chair to go and ask OIP, how they handled it, I believe it was for City and County
of Honolulu. There's actually a mechanism already available and maybe we can
move this along. I'd also like to put some push behind the transcripts or the
transcribing of those minutes and if we could get this done. I know it is
challenging for staff, but if they could put that in front of the meeting minutes that
would be excellent.
CHR. O'HARA: Alright, thank you. Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman. I'm wondering if you could just give the
Council's position on this whole matter in like five sentences, at least the viewing
public knows, they may not know exactly what went on in Executive Session but
at least I think they'll get a flavor for what the Council feels, because I believe the
Council is unified on this matter based on what I've heard.
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March 21, 2017
CHR. O'HARA: I think the Council is fairly unified. Thank you. Yeah, and I
will do that. In our session we discussed what the Mayor referred to as a bad
contract. And the two reasons that he gave for referring to it, or characterizing as
a bad contract was that the cost of the contract was excessive and it did not meet
the solid waste management goals as adopted by the County of Hawaii last in
2009.
In our discussion, many of the Council Members had questions about the way the
cost comparison was done, the evaluation or analysis and whether it was
potentially flawed and didn't really represent a true comparison of cost for
mulching. Some of the other points that were brought up involved whether or not
this contract met the solid waste management goals, which to our knowledge as a
Council, it does.
We clearly have a difference of opinion as to how the Council views the action by
the Mayor; the cancellation of the contract under the termination for convenience
clause the Mayor does in his analysis with the help of the Director of
Environmental Management and Corporation Counsel.
So, it's going to lead to future actions by this Council. I will be presenting as I
said resolution at the next meeting but what we did learn in our Executive Session
is that to our knowledge at this point and time the Council itself cannot reverse
the termination notice. We as a body do not appear to have the ability to rescind
the termination notice. So that is something that we did discuss during our
Executive Session.
There are other actions we may be able to take and I hope that the information
that's been sent to the Mayor by parties out there, including our Senator Kai
Kahele and our Representative Chris Todd, who encouraged the Mayor to
reconsider his decision. His also been contacted or being contacted by members
of the University College of Ag.
So in our hope that he will reconsider we're maybe being as forceful as we
possibly can, because we have visited with the Mayor. I personally have visited
with the Mayor and let him know what my concerns are with his termination. So,
in short there is a difference of opinion between the County Council and the
administration on this particular cancellation of contract. And that was what we
determined in our Executive Session. So, we're still a bit at odds. Thank you.
Now moving on, can we call for the vote and put this motion, put this discussion
to bed? All those in favor say "aye."
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Vote on Comm. 116: The motion to close file on Comm. 116 was carried by the
(Filed) following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kanuha, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards,
Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
(There were none.)
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCE: Bills for Ordinances.
(There were none.)
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 5:55 p.m., Mr. Richards moved to adjourn the
MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. David and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kanuha, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards,
Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. O'HARA: We are adjourned.
Approved:
Ow de x12.7 11(47
Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair (Date)
Environmental Management Committee
EO/vc
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