Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN EMC 2017/03/07 2016-2018COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT 2nd Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii March 7, 2017 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Environmental Management was called ORDER: to order at 1:07 p.m. in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair. R(1T T CAT r Present: Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Ms. Karen Eoff, Member Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Gregory T. Smith: Joyce Alberta Folena: Jay Takaaze: (representing Hawaiian Earth Recycling) Reed Takaaze: (representing Hawaiian Earth Recycling) Mahoe Dancel: (representing Hawaiian Earth Products) Bob Manuel: (representing Hawaiian Earth Products) Comm. 110 and 116, in support. Comm. 110 and 116, in support. Comm. 110, in support. Comm. 110, in support. Comm. 116, in support. Comm. 116, in support. EMC -2 March 7, 2017 Wilbert Secuya: Comm. 116, In support. Stanley Souza: Comm. 116, in support. James Rietveld: Comm. 116, in support. Deborah Ward: Comms 110 and 116, in opposition. Roy Kimura: Comm. 116, in support. Terri L. Napeahi: Comm. 116, comment. (representing the Keaukaha Action Network) Roger Ulep: Comm. 116, in support. Shana Dancel: Comm. 116, in support. (representing Hawaiian Earth Products) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 115: REQUESTS DISCUSSION REGARDING RAT LUNG DISEASE WITH SUSAN JARVI, PH.D., PROFESSOR AND CHAIR OF PHARMACEUTICAL SCIENCES AT THE DANIEL K. INOUYE COLLEGE OF PHARMACY From Council Member Eileen O'Hara, dated February 7, 2017. Motion to Close File: Mr. Kanuha moved to close file on Comm. 115. Seconded by Mr. Richards. (Note: At this time, Dr. Susan Jarvi and Kathleen Howe of the U.H. College of Pharmacy came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. O'HARA: You can go ahead, Dr. Jarvi. DR. JARVL Aloha Council Members. I just want to make one correction. I am a Professor in the Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences, but I was previously Chair and very happy that I'm not anymore. Thank you for this opportunity to meet with you. Recess: At 1:50 p.m. the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting was reconvened at 1:55 p.m. Page 2 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 CHR. O'HARA: Alright, it looks like we're working again. Do we need to dim the lights at all, folks? Okay, go ahead, Dr. Jarvi. DR. JARVL Okay, thank you very much for this opportunity to share with you what the Hawaii Island Rat Lung Working Group has been working on over the last five or six years. I started working on Rat Lung, my lab did, back in 2011. That's when I was invited over to a meeting, it was the Second International Rat Lungworm Working Group, which was held in Honolulu, and that's where I met Kay Howe, who is here. Kay's son Graham was seriously infected in 2008, and he's still recovering. So Kay and I decided that there wasn't enough research and education being conducted by the State, so we formed the Hawaii Island Rat Lungworm Working Group, and now we have probably 25 or so or more people. Many of them are volunteers. I'm at the College of Pharmacy, so student labor is cheap, so we have a lot of student volunteers, all the ones that are underlined are Pharmacy PharmD (Pharmacy Degree) students (referring to image on projector screen). We've had a lot of input from the community, because this issue is near and dear to many people, especially in East Hawaii. (Note: At this time, Dr. Jarvi and Ms. Howe provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 115. 1.) DR. JARVL With that, I'll say thank you, and welcome any questions. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you so much. That was really informative, Dr. Jarvi and Kehau. Folks on the Council, any questions from you? Ms. Ruggles. MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Jarvi. I don't know if you remember but about ten or it seems like a long time, but maybe six years ago, we collaborated at the University to do the first Rat Lungworm forum. I just had a couple of questions, the things that you pointed to in your presentation. What would a resident use to wash veggies with? DR. JARVL At this point and time we're telling people, potable water. Potable water which is difficult for some people to have access to. You know, until we do the studies with the vegetable washes, it's almost impossible. We did find a chemical that seems very effective, but it's also, if you look at the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet), I don't think I'd want it to put it on my food. So, we need to look at commercially available vegetable washes. Page 3 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 Also, some household items we would like to test, baking soda. We know acids won't work, these guys live in our stomach, and stomach acids. And we know some of the basic vinegar, hydrogen peroxide, neem. What was the other ones we tried? Grapefruit seed extract. We tried a handful of these and they didn't seem to do anything to the worms. But now that we have this death assay, we are in a much better position with poised to run that study, and I would like if you know we get any funding from the legislature that would be one of the studies, we would do. MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. Is there another thing of a—you guys was talking about these shelters the students built, is there a resource that describes how to build these shelters? MS. HOWE: Yeah, I'm working on writing up the management plan and curriculum right now. We received partial funding from HISC (Hawai`i Invasive Species Council) to do this. So actually one of most effective shelters, besides going out and doing hand collections—which was really effective. Waimea kind of sort of took over that pie chart of techniques that worked because we did whole school searches there. So, actually hand collection, going out at night or even during the day is a very effective method. But as far as shelters, one of our most effective shelters was cardboard and you can basically get that free. So, it was two foot by—all of our shelters were two foot by two foot. We had a raised wooden board, that was our most expensive shelter. Cardboard, a piece of weed, cloths, piece of black plastic, and then we made an insulated reflective tarp material. For the semi -slug what's showing to be really effective is to use a heavy mill plastic or a tarp folded up, get it a little wet inside. Slugs and snails will follow each other's slime trails, so, once they start using it, other ones will start using it as well. So, we're using that up at the University right now to be able to trap slugs for our water filter study. And a folded up plastic bag, heavy mill plastic or tarp, works really well for the semi -slug. They all have a bit of different preference, so that's one of the things that is fun to have the students working with because they can try different materials, and then they can make recommendations. You know, each species has a little bit different of a preference. But under one of our two foot by two foot wooden traps, on one occasion up at Waimea we removed 52 individuals. So a two foot by two foot shelter can house quite a few. It's a good nontoxic way to do it, you know, it's just something we've got to start doing. Having farmers and schools, students sharing information about what works. And I think, you know, if we just aren't afraid to talk about this we can come up with solutions. But by not talking about it we're making the problem a lot worse. So, I have a t -shirt that I made that says, "Rat Lungworm Disease, Hawai`i's STD-Slug/Snail Transmitted Disease. Let's talk about it." Page 4 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MS. RUGGLES: And so it's just a two by two cardboard box and some plastic inside and some moisture. That's something that I can send out? MS. HOWE: Just cardboard. Just a piece of heavy—you know, heavy cardboard works better. And then it's important to kind of remove the grass away. The slugs and snails like to be on the ground, other than the semi -slug, they like really smooth surfaces. So, that's why the plastic works so well. But we cleared away the grass and then just got it wet underneath, made it nice, moist, and try to keep them in a shady area rather than out in the sun, although they will work in the sun. We noticed that Na Wai Ola in Mountain View, they had some wood chips that were using as mulch and we put our traps on top of that, and the Cuban slugs really liked using that wood chip with the cardboard covering or the wood trap. The wood trap and the cardboard were the most effective. The plastic I think would have been more effective but it was only one layer and it was black so it was kind of a hot trap. MS. RUGGLES: You don't put any bait or anything in there? MS. HOWE: No, we don't put any bait under there. Up at the University where I'm using the plastic bag traps, I did take a little bit of cat food, just a few kernels and kind of threw it around because the semi slug really likes cat and dog food. It likes protein. And one of the things that we tell people is like if you just go out there and squash the slug or snail, other slugs and snails will come along and eat those, and then they just infect somebody else. So, by squashing them on the ground—and then plus too, the parasite can live outside of the dead slug snail host in a wet environment, so they could be living in the ground, for instance, if it was moist so we really advocate for this slug jug. We get empty jars from Blane's Drive Inn, either free or maybe for a quarter. A gallon jar, fill it with a half a gallon of water and a cup and an eighth of salt, and you just have your tongs out there at night. I went out last night and nailed another semi -slug that was crawling up towards my door. The semi -slug has very unique behavior that we don't see in other slugs. It's a climber and it likes to get into things. It will go up to human habitation, it'll climb on your doors. It's just got a weird behavior that—and it's really an effective host and it's a problematic one. MS. RUGGLES: Thanks. And my last question. I know there was an article published in the Trib. (Hawai`i Tribune Herald) about a year ago I believe, and it was on a study in Puna where volunteers came in and they were tested. And I believe one of the researchers said that about a quarter of the volunteers tested positive. Page 5 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 DR. JARVL Yeah, yeah. With the ELISA (Enzyme Linked Immunosorbent Assay), which is the first screening test, it was about a quarter. Of those, then we went on to the second test for the dot -lot that was developed in Thailand. There was about 30 percent. Yeah, so that's pretty high. MS. RUGGLES: And how many participants were there, can you—do you remember? DR. JARVL Four hundred and thirty-five. MS. RUGGLES: Wow. DR. JARVL We just submitted a grant. And so one of our questions was, "What is the role of catchment in the transmission of Rat Lungworm Disease?" And so because most of the 435 were on catchment, we have very few on municipal water—and I don't think we'll get equal numbers in Puna on municipal water versus catchment. So we just submitted another small grant to see if we could expand this study and collect samples, another 400 or so samples, from Hilo and lower Hamakua to be able to look at municipal water versus catchment water. And also, in that study I want to—starting to work with local physicians who—to be able to get blood samples from individuals that were recently infected. So if somebody comes in and says, "I think I have rat Lungworm and the physician says, "Yeah, I think you have rat Lungworm," they would take a blood sample for me so I can test to see two things: antibody level, we could watch antibody level over time; as well as look for DNA in that blood sample. If we could have even a—it's a kind of a needle in a haystack approach, but if it's positive, it's really positive. If it's negative you don't really know. MS. RUGGLES: Okay, so you mentioned that the 20 micron filter was not sufficient. Are there filters out there that are? DR. JARVL We just started that study and so Iwe don't have the results of the next round. Those are the only two filters that we have completed the study on. And that's ongoing until the students leave. So hopefully we'll be able have some information out there. Hopefully by summer, or the end of summer anyway. MS. RUGGLES: Okay, great. That's all I have. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. I just want to remind us that we're getting close the time that we allocated for this, and I know that Councilman Richards next to me has some pertinent questions, he is our resident veterinarian and so I'm going to let him have the mic. Page 6 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair Woman. Dr. Wood is my partner, so I'm keeping aware of what went on. CHR. O'HARA: Yes, yes. MR. RICHARDS: And I'll keep this short. Just couple things real quick. Life cycle of the parasite, what's the time length there? Best guess. DR. JARVL In the rat? MR. RICHARDS: Yeah. DR. JARVL It takes about six weeks to become an adult in a rat, from the time that they eat the L-3 to adult stage. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, so total life cycle from egg to egg? DR. JARVL No, in the slug MS. HOWE: It would depend on when the slug gets eaten. A worm can actually live in a slug for—Richards and Merritt's paper said they had them a year later. After they got infected. MR. RICHARDS: What's the quickest? What's the quickest that you're aware of? MS. HOWE: I would say within a month. DR. JARVL Well yeah, but six weeks in the rat, plus another month or so, three weeks to a month in the slug. MR. RICHARDS: So six to eight weeks, something like that? DR. JARVL Six to—yeah. Eight to nine weeks. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, eight to nine weeks. And I know the question as far as treatment has been all over the board. Do you have any seasonal favorites right now? Avermectins, (inaudible). DR. JARVL I get into trouble every time I talk about treatments. I'm not a physician. MR. RICHARDS: No, I understand that. Page 7 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 DR. JARVL But I do talk to a lot of physicians, and we met a fellow in Australia, Paul Prosive (sic), who's been working on Rat Lungworm Disease in Australia for a couple decades. And what his take on it was if you know—the hardest part is trying to determine the time of infection. If you know the time of infection, for example, "I ate a semi -slug at the farmers market," potential infection. Then there's a window of—this is coming from Paul—there's a window of about three weeks, up to 25 days maybe. So, the larvae when it enters as L-3 gets to the bloodstream, and into the brain fairly quickly, and in the brain it matures to L-4 and L-5 and these are very much bigger. The L-5 is more a macroscopic organism then an L-3 in the brain. And so what the normal things happens in rats is that it moves from the brain down to the heart and lungs and becomes a reproducing adult. In humans the thought is that at it remains in the brain until the larvae dies. And so when larvae die they tend to produce an amount of more inflammation when they're dead then when they're alive. And so that's the double edged sword and I think it's up to the individual physician to decide. Steroids are a must to use prednisone to keep the inflammation down in the brain, and then talking with the doctors that I have the preferred drug that I'm aware of is Albendazole. And so Albendazole treatment very early in infection, there's very little risk. But as the larvae gets bigger it becomes L -5's and you start killing them off rapidly, you can have actually cause more inflammation. And by the way, there's evidence in the literature and also from this one physician in Australia who did an autopsy on a toddler. And children, I know of six cases—five cases in the literature where they've done autopsies on children who had died from rat Lungworm and found adult worms in the heart and lungs of those children. So the parasite is doing what it wants to do. It wants to reproduce. One of the most interesting people at the meeting in Brisbane was a veterinarian who had some good thoughts on this. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, and I'm sure I'll be having more conversations with you later but we'll move on for Committees and time sake. But my final question is, best guesstimate from we have infection but doesn't necessarily mean disease, we have presentation of the clinical flu versus the CNS (central nervous system) problem, the question I have for you, what percentage of infections may present themselves as a CNS, and those can be a small percentage, and we'll have a much larger flu-like syndrome. Do you have any best guess as far as that goes? DR. JARVL Are you asking how many of the parasites make it to the central nervous system? MR. RICHARDS: Yes. Page 8 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 DR. JARVL Okay, I don't have an answer for that. We know from looking at a lot of rats that the parasites, especially in this last trial of these 562 rats, we found a lot of decaying and encysted rat lungworms in the lungs and so probably those were L-3 stage, they weren't adults. And so most likely there's certain percentage of the worms that don't make it to the central nervous system. MR. RICHARDS: No, I appreciate that. What I'm talking about specifically is human host or aberrant host. DR. JARVL Oh, we don't know—we don't know. MR. RICHARDS: Oh, okay. Alright, that's enough. I'll yield so we can get on. We'll have conversations later. Thanks. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, yes this is a very, very hot topic. Any other questions from the Council Members? Okay, I would like to just wrap up and say—well, I do have a couple of questions. Do you know what temperature kills a semi -slug? DR. JARVL Good cooking. CHR. O'HARA: Good cooking. Yes, I know. DR. JARVL You know of all the countries, Canada has safety sheet. Canada this is a tropical organism, but it's loaded with good information, I can send you. I think they say in there two to three minutes of boiling. CHR. O'HARA: Well, I wasn't actually thinking of cooking, I was wondering about composting. DR. JARVL Oh, composting. CHR. O'HARA: Can we kill off the semi -slug in composting? MS. HOWE: You would really have to have a really hot compost pile and whether it would they stay in there or crawl out. I mean if it was dead— you would want to have hot compost. We had somebody else question us about getting rid of slugs and snails that way and I think it's too big of a risk. I'd just put them in my slug jug and then when it gets stinky and nasty, I add a little bleach and when it's really full I'll just take it to a gravel area or somewhere I don't want weeds to grow and that seems to be the best way that we found to get rid of them. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. And also, at the State, there is a bill that's still alive, right? And it looks like Page 9 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 DR. JARVL SB272 (Senate Bill 272), it just passed over to the house. So, it was unanimously voted positive by the Senate. CHR. O'HARA: And this might provide some money for future research? DR. JARVL We're hoping. CHR. O'HARA: Okay. Well, I hope so, too. DR. JARVL Well, a lot of these studies that we don't have funding for. CHR. O'HARA: And another thing that we had talked about earlier when preparing for this presentation, is perhaps the need to create an island -wide task force with physicians, veterinarians, and that those sorts of professionals who could help with the voluntary collection of data since we don't have the best data being provided by the State. Is that correct? DR. JARVL I would agree with that. Yes, some on the statewide task force and we've made very little progress so far. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, well let's continue to work on that idea and see if we can't bring something forth, because this is a very important issue. Especially, in my district, as you pointed out with all of your statistics, because of the high rate of water catchment and DR. JARVL I would think a task force would be especially helpful for educating our healthcare providers. A lot of people do not know—in the ER, people are still getting turned away. It's a hard disease to diagnosis, but also there needs to be better education for our healthcare providers. CHR. O'HARA: Alright, thank you. Any other questions? Then seeing none. Can we take a vote on this communication and filing this report? All those in favor say "aye." Vote on Comm. 115: The motion to close file on Comm. 115 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara – 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member David –1. Excused: None. Page 10 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you so much for that presentation. It's a phenomenal amount of research, I know you've spent a lot of years on this already, and it looks like you might be working on it for years to come. And so, thank you for all your work, ladies. Okay, we have nextClerk, can you read the next communication. MR. HENRICKS: I could. Could we just ask for five minute recess? CHR. O'HARA: Okay, we have been sitting a long time, I'm sorry. MR. HENRICKS : Thank you, kindly. Recess: At 2:52 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 3:03 p.m. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, we're going to reconvene, here. We still have the Chair absent and Ms. Lee Loy. Oh, Chair is here? I'm sure that Mr. Richards and Ms. Lee Loy will join us soon. Let's reconvene and move on to the next communication on the Environmental Management Committee agenda. Clerk, please? Comm. 110: REQUESTS PRESENTATION AND UPDATE BY PAUL BUKLAREWICZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF RECYCLE HAWAII, ON THEIR USED OIL PROGRAM; AND BY MARK CUMMINGS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF HAWAIIAN EARTH RECYCLING. ON THEIR COMPOSTING PROGRAM From Council Member Eileen O'Hara, dated February 9, 2017 CHR. O'HARA: Mr. Buklarewicz? What happened to him? He was in the room a minute ago. Pardon. Oh, putting coins in the machine. Hi, there. Hi Sean. Yes. Okay. Let's have a motion, then. And maybe he'll be back after putting a few quarters in the machine. Can I have a motion on this communication? Motion to Close File: Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 110. Seconded by Ms. Eof£ (Note: At this time, Executive Director of Recycle Hawaii Paul Buklarewicz came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. BUKLAREWICZ: I'm Paul Buklarewicz, Recycle Hawaii Executive Director for the past 14 years. Thanks for the opportunity to make this presentation and welcome the new members of the Council here. This is about the used motor oil program for do it yourself, oil changers. People who maintain Page 11 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 their own vehicles, and I'm counted as one of them. And Recycle Hawaii is a nonprofit 501(c) community education organization. We're celebrating our 25th year this year, and over those 25 years we've been providing professional services for the County of Hawaii in the area of education outreach related to sustainability and recycling and home composting. We've done considerable amount of electronic waste recycling. But today, I'm here to talk about the use motor oil program from 1999 to the present. And I should say Environmental Management Committee/Commission on the title page, here because it's for their eyes as well. (Note: At this time, Mr. Buklarewicz provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy pf the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 110.3.) MR. BUKLAREWICZ: That is all I have, if you have any questions about the program? CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. Thank you very much Paul. MR. BUKLAREWICZ: Recycle Hawaii stands ready to work for the Department of Environmental Management in satisfying its solid waste management goals in any way we can. If the new administration is amenable to providing matching funds when we go out for grants, grant funding for some of these initiatives, we would be welcome to work with the County in that regard. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you very much, Paul. I'm going to open it up for questions to Mr. Buklarewicz about the program up to this time. I would also like to call on our DEM representatives to come forward and perhaps give an update from January 1 of this year and see where we're at as well. If you could stick around Paul, I would appreciate it. MR. BUKLAREWICZ: Sure. CHR. O'HARA: But does anybody have a question for Mr. Buklarewicz'! Okay, I'm going to ask Mr. Kurcharski, who is the Director of the Environmental Management. And I'm not sure who you have with you. Craig Odell. Okay, and can you just give us a brief couple lines as where we're at right now. Thank you. (Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Bill Kucharski came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 12 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MR. KURCHARSKL Bill Kurcharski, Director of DEM. We have multiple issues, all of which revolve around funds to do the job that everyone expects us to do. And this is really no different, I would love to be able to have multiple pick up locations and be able to handle, have more locations then maybe were economical viable, but that's just not the situation. We have gone out and as we just indicated, Paul just indicated we did put out two RFP's (Requests for Proposals), for which we got no response, to try and fill in the contract that ended in December. We're taking a look at the verbiage that we have in the contract to see if possibly we're asking too much. And so that's ongoing for futures. We have just recently come in actually; we got the Notice to Proceed yesterday, for Hawaii Petroleum to come in and take the contract for the next several months as we take a look at whether we can get this fixed in the near future; and again, taking a look at what we're asking from the contractor. Asking how we're doing this and are we doing it the smartest way. And so that's under review. That's all I can say, I can't tell you that we have everything fixed, but I can tell you that we're trying to make modifications where they make sense. CHR. O'HARA: Excuse me. Thank you for that. Any questions for Mr. Kurcharski? I have a question. I'm not clear, I understand from Mr. Buklarewicz's presentation that you were not allowed to add sites but you were still doing permanent sites at the last time that Recycle Hawaii held this contract for recycled oil. Is that correct? You did have the six permanent sites. MR. BUKLAREWICZ: Six permanent sites were operating as of December 31. However, if you look at the Hawaii Zero waste website, the County's DEM website, half of those are listed as temporarily not accepting oil at this time. I don't know the reason for that, but I'm assuming the County's taking over the program. MS. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. And—and is that correct. We are going to continue to have six sites at least? MR. KURCHARSKL Yes. MS. O'HARA: Okay. MR. KURCHARSKL I have to go into the specific detail on the sites but I do know that some are—we've had not had pick-ups and some of the sites are full, and can't accept. Other of the locations have decided that they no longer want to be a site. So some of these things are working together against us. I think we Page 13 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 just truly need to exam top to bottom this program and make it work the way it supposed to work. MS. O'HARA: Thank you. Okay, if no one else has any questions. Okay, then I will call—thank you very much, both of you. And I will call for the vote on the—oh yeah; oh we had to read both in simultaneously. Sorry. My mistake, these are both under the same communication, so we're going to proceed to the presentation by Hawaiian Earth Recycling. Thank you. (Note: At this time, Hawaiian Earth Recycling Executive Director Mark Cummings and General Manager Marvin Min came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. CUMMINGS: Appreciate the opportunity to speak to you this afternoon. Good afternoon, my name is Mark Cummings, I'm with Hawaiian Earth Recycling and we appreciate the opportunity to update you on our composting program and where we are with the mulching and the enhanced mulch. At this point, I'm going to hand the presentation over to Marvin Min, who is our General Manager for the County of Hawaii Operations for Hawaiian Earth Recycling. MR. MINS: Good afternoon, Council Chair Poindexter, Committee Chair O'Hara and fellow Council Members. Thank you for this opportunity for us to provide you folks an update of what's going on with our composting operation at the Hawaiian Earth Recycling. (Note: At this time, Mr. Min provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 110.2.) CHR. O'HARA: Thank you so much. That was excellent. I'm going to open it up for questions from the Council, but before I do, I just want to try and clarify some terminology, okay, because we're talking about a technical service contract. And I know this is difficult, we've used the word mulch and we're covering a gamut of product when we use the word "mulch" initially. And I'll go back in time about 15 years ago, the mulch that was made at the greenwaste site, which is still the same site, was a very coarse product and it was not allowed to be enhanced or wind row composting, or however you want to refer to the process that you are currently doing. And in that raw mulch or raw greenwaste turned into a very rough mulch, we risked the possibility which was quite high of transporting invasive species and other pathogens. The product that you're now referring to as mulch is what I would refer to as a lightly composted product. It isn't fully composted, as Ms. Ward said earlier. She takes it home and fully composts it because she's an old composter and she Page 14 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 knows how to do these things. She doesn't—she wants to be 100 percent assured that it's very, very clean. But it is enhanced in that you have tested it for little red fire ants, other invasives. Wheat seeds and the transmittal of the fungi that is transmitting ROD (Rapid `Ohi`a Death) is not present in the enhanced mulch. So, I just want to get that cleared because we get a lot of confusion. So, the enhanced mulch is basically the product that you are producing in East Hawaii under Phase I of this contract. And under Phase II of the contract would be built what we're referring to as the in -vessel composting facility, which is in a different location, it's further out beyond the landfill in the quarry that you named. So, that is a little bit different product, and in -vessel composting would provide us 100 percent certainty that the material is clean. It would probably have perhaps higher nutrient value to the farmer and/or gardener. So, that has not yet happened. That facility has not yet been built, and the timeline as expressed was to have it completed by October 2018. So, I just wanted to clarify those points before we open up for discussion, because it's a complex contract, it's a complex operation, and I just want to be able to have a clean conversation here at the Council. MR. MIN: Yes, thank you. That's basically you answered all those questions, but you know, to answer some of the questions, Ms. Ward, as you mentioned as an expert in composting, it's making stew, every one of us makes stew a different way and you add own things in there. And the gentleman in Pahoa, who was on the audio earlier, mentioned about using manure as well and yes to all of the above. There's many ways that you can make your compost to meet your needs. And for our company, we have certain blends that we use and primarily that's the food waste stream blended in with the greenwaste to make it a much more rich compost soil. CHR. O'HARA: Show and tell time. MR. MIN: We're bringing out some bags, show you some differences with the mulch and hopefully show you the difference with the enhanced mulch, and show you the difference what compost looks like. CHR. O'HARA: Good. Thank you for the show and tell. MR. MIN: This is untreated wood pallets. CHR. O'HARA: Untreated okay, thank you. Page 15 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MR. MIN: Okay, karaoke time. That's the untreated wood pallets. As you guys can imagine, wood pallets, they have a lot of nails in them, when they come to us, and our grinding machine has a magnet, we put a bin underneath, as we grind it catches to the magnet and it drops into the bin. So it removes all the nails from the wooden pallets. On Oahu, what we do with the wooden pallets is you can use it for ground covering, control weeds as well as they die it, color it. Make it a red or brown color for landscaping purposes. This here is fresh greenwaste mulch. Came straight off the grinder this morning. In the past, our customers were very used to just taking that straight off the grinder. They'll back their trucks up to it and they want that mulch, because it was a supply and demand kind of thing. The enhanced mulch is a lot darker in color, and it's broken down. It's just aged, again, for at least 15 days, temperature controlled. We cook it above 131 degrees and we turn it at least five times. This next product is organic compost, just broken down further. How old is this, Mark? Maybe five, six months? MR. CUMMINGS: Probably, yeah. CHR. O'HARA: So, the final product is not done with in -vessel composting. That's just done with— MR. MIN: That's done on Oahu right now in an open wind row. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, so it's an aging process. Okay. Alright, we have gotten to hear the presentation and see some of the product. Do we have any questions from Council Members? Ms. Eoff. MS. EOFF: Thank you. There's a lot to discuss here, but I just need to get a couple things cleared or out of the way first. Well, first of all, it's really good to meet you guys, because I remember when we—this last Council did approve the bond authorization to go ahead and move forward on the in -vessel composting facility, which was—at the time I don't think we met you. That you would end up being the company that bid and was awarded that contract. Right? MR. MIN: That is correct. The contract was awarded to Hawaiian Earth Recycling on July 1, 2016, and the company had hired me and I came on board July 20th. MS. EOFF: Oh, I see. Okay, and so we're in a pretty big dilemma today, because we were told that the contract that we were all very excited about, I think the whole County and actually the whole State. I had phone calls from news media Page 16 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 on Oahu, because we were going to be the first County in the State of Hawaii that would have an in -vessel composting facility, not only to help divert and save space for our landfills, but also to deal with the invasive species in a very secure fashion; and also to be able to have that be compatible with our proposed ban on Styrofoam containers, so we would even have more compost and food waste to be able to feed into this facility. MR. MIN: Right. MS. EOFF: So, it was a logical conclusion to a lot of years and a long road towards the County's goal of zero waste, as well. MR. MIN: Right. MS. EOFF: So, it was a very positive moment in time. I did not know that there was an issue with the Hawaiian Homes and the location. But I did intuitively ask the department at the time; why the composting facility has to be located in Hilo, because I just thought maybe Pu`uanahulu would be a better place for it. Given all the resorts and the greenwaste generated right there, and to avoid some excess trucking and stuff But yeah, I learned when I asked that question that it was a matter of the water. MR. MIN: Right. MS. EOFF: So, I don't know if there's any other way to use fresh water—you know, get fresh water, I know you can't use salt water. And but anyways, that's another side issue because we're right now not even looking or we're looking at the possibility of not even being able to build an In -vessel composting facility, which kind of—it saddens me. I hope that, you know, as we proceed with discussions that we can either get a better understanding of what are our County's new goal is but I'm still kind of stuff on the old goal. So, it's going to take a while for me to get my mind to be able to grasp where we're going in this point in time. Would the mulching process that you currently provide—or enhanced mulching, right, is what we actually are doing. Would that continue but possibly be being done by a different contractor if the path that the Mayor is going on now were to take place? If your contractors cancelled a new contract maybe would have to be sought because we need to do something regarding mulching. Would that not necessarily then be your company anymore? MR. MIN: Well first of all, thank you. And I think you hit the nail on the head by mentioning earlier about there was years and years of discussion, and this going back and forth on the contract and the mission from the department. I Page 17 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 really appreciate what the new administration is going through as well. I mean, everyone's trying to do their job, and for us, we sincerely appreciate that and understand that. But to answer your last question, you know, it's emotionally hard for all of us. You know, for me the hardest part of all of this and getting an announcement that our contract was terminated, was of our employees. I've got 13 of the best employees right here in the island. And to change the game plan and to change the direction, you know, I need to keep my comments to myself because, you know, I don't agree with it, but yet I understand where we want to go with it. You know, is there a future for another company to come in to do this operation, mulching operation? Well, let me ask you, if anyone is a business person, would you invest a million dollars in a grinding machine and loaders and operations? I mean, that's the question. That's why we have a 10 -year contract, so we have a our business ROI (return on investment), you know. And it's just a matter of us coming out and looking at what the County presented in the previous agreement and how we bid on it, whatever the County wanted us to bid on. And Mark can answer some of your questions as well because he was on this contract negotiations and going through the proposals from day one. MR. CUMMINGS: Yeah, thank you Mark. We built the composting program around the Request for Proposal 3298. So when it was issued, we responded, we priced it competitively because we knew that there were other people looking at it, whenever we were putting our proposal together, the Public Purchase site, lists all of the questions, so we knew they were questions coming from other companies. So we knew we were in a competitive environment. The architecture of the structure of the RFP required very specific pricing for the duration of the contract for each location and the services for each one. So under the understanding or the impression that we were in a competitive environment, we put together the proposal that we felt was best to respond to the County. And we even asked questions as to whether or not there would be alternatives sites to the Kiyosaki quarry. We inquired if there were other parcels, other TMK's that could be available. So we did look at, we did ask to see if there were other opportunities for that. But the RFP was specific that it was to be done at that particular location with these particular volumes and that they wanted to in -vessel technology. So it was very similar to the RFP 2738 which was released, I want to say that it was 2011, it may have been 2011. Where they also at that point had requested for an in -vessel facility at the east and also and in vessel for the west. And so we responded to that one as well at that point and time. So, I have personally responded to RFPs from the County of Hawaii since 2003, so I was very excited to finally bring one home. So two years later I'm thinking, "Oh gee, what did we do?" Page 18 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 So, anyway that's the background. We were composting or excuse me, we were providing the mulching services for the County since January 2013, we've been providing mulching services and we learned a lot of things. The invasive species issue, we were coming up with solutions that we believed could take care of that through this enhanced mulch or this composting process, which is just a sanitizing, not taking it to full sterility, but cleaning it. We've been working with the Department of Environmental Management very diligently and I would say that they have been very, very good to work with. They all are very committed to doing the right thing. And we have a very good working relationship with them and we are hopeful that we will be able to continue to do that in some perhaps, modified version of the existing contract. So we are your contractor, we have this agreement. We have been here and we believe that we're in good stead with you. We haven't had any negative response with respect to our contracts that are our operations. So there are provisions within the existing contract that would make it such that it could be modified to whatever the new administration would like it to be. And we are very willing and eager to meet that. We believe it's in the County's best interest to pursue that, just because of the demobilization will take, you know, 60 days to do, and reletting a new contract will take, well, the Department of Health they're, you know, six months out to make approvals on things. And so, but we believe it's in the best interest of the County and we're very willing and eager to work with you, work with the administration to do that. MS. EOFF: Well, thank you very much for saying that, and I know nothing about contracts, about RFPs, I mean very little. But my gut tells me that what you're suggesting would be the ultimate path to take. Where we could modify the existing contract to meet the now, known needs and financial needs, and concerns of the neighboring homes. I certainly hope that we could proceed that way. I don't know where we're at right now. It seems a little contentious as far as from what I'm reading in the newspaper and some information we're receiving today. But you seem like very cooperative contractors, and I know the administration has a very—their policy I believe is the same, I mean it's not to end up in lawsuits, or time and money costing lawsuits. We would rather, I think all of us, administration and legislators, hope that we can work out in the best interest of the entire County. And I think we were on a great path and I think you guys know your stuff, I feel confident with the work that you've done so far. MR. MIN: Thank you. MS. EOFF: I'm going to yield because I think my Council Members know more than I do about these details of this. Thank you. Page 19 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 CHR. O'HARA: Council Chair Poindexter. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, so listening to all of this and to the testimony and to what some concerns about it being—the new facility being located in the community and I agree. If the community, you know, if the impact on the community is not a good thing then maybe it shouldn't be there. But you know, again, could the contract be amended? I know that we have vacant lands. County has lands that are not even leased out yet. I know we have like about 900 acres in Pa`auilo above the—there's this portion where you have this County baseyard was supposed to be built. It's now vacant land, it's fenced off, never got built, whatever. Above that is some property that's leased out, then above that we have like 900 acres. You know, so when we talk about land and where it could be placed, I think we have a lot of options around the island. Water may be the biggest problem. I think with Pu`uanahulu, like Karen was talking about, the water. I mean, you know, is that problem in Pa`auilo, you know, up closer on mauka side of the road; I don't know. And these are the kinds of things I would hate to see, you know, I understand what the Mayor is maybe wanting to do because of the community not wanting the facility there, but that doesn't mean—listening to all of this and having calls come in from constituents concerned, is there a way that—and I don't see Mr. Kamelamela here or I would call him up right now to ask himoh, there he is. So, can I ask Joe to come up and then I'll just kind of tell you what I was talking about? If you could allow Mr. Kamelamela a seat. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. POINDEXTER: Before you came in, and I don't know if you heard out there, you know, some of the concerns that are coming from the constituents is there's good things happening with this company and what's happening with the mulching. You know, I think the problem is the encapsulated, that new facility for the composting may be the problem. But why couldn't we is there a possibility that this contract could be amended? MR. KAMELAMELA: In order for me to answer that, I got to go into an executive session. MS. POINDEXTER: Executive session. Okay, so maybe there's—I'll yield at this time because there's a possibility we may have to go into executive session, because we're hearing all of this, and you know, if somethings broke, why fix it. Or you know, or if something may not be going in the right direction but this part is good, then why couldn't we make amendments so that we can massage it to be Page 20 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 the best fit for Hawaii County and not going to cost the taxpayers a lot of money in the long run. But anyway, so I will yield at this time. Thank you. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. Council Woman David. MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair O'Hara. And Mr. Min and Mark what's your I'm sorry. MR. CUMMINGS: Cummings. MS. DAVID: Cummings, thank you. I really want to thank you folks as like Ms. Eoff; I have no clue as to the process of mulch composting. Sounds very interesting and I really appreciate your explanation, more so the visual aid that you provided. So, as far—when those bags were passed around up till one, two, three, up to the enhanced mulch, that's what you're doing right now in Phase I. MR. CUMMINGS: That is correct. MS. DAVID: Okay, so number four and five, they're organic composting, plus the really—number five, bag number five is what phase two is going to produce. MR. CUMMINGS: Yes. MS. DAVID: Okay. So, according to—your contract covers steps one through five. MR. CUMMINGS: There's a first phase which spells out all the different parameters that we need to do within a certain time period. MS. DAVID: Right. MR. CUMMINGS: And the phase two consists of the in -vessel composting, the educational outreach as well. MS. DAVID: Right. Okay, before I go on I'd like to say that I appreciate your company and the workers that you've employed from here and that you've provided, more so, I'm very happy that you come from Pahala, so I think that's great that our people that are that come from here have an appreciation of employing people from here and doing that sort of service for the community. So given that, I'm hearing that as far—and thank you for being frank but I'm hearing that as far as you're concerned, you are in compliance with your contract. Is that what I'm hearing? MR. MIN: That is correct. Page 21 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MS. DAVID: Thank you. And so far how much have you invested in this contract? MR. CUMMINGS: There's—it depends on how you quantify it, the equipment that we purchased so far for the contract is about $1.2 million, we purchased two pieces of equipment. We were planning to purchase more this year to fulfil that. There's also the development cost associated with contract negotiations and things of that nature that were, you know, soft costs but pretty substantial, so I don't have a number for you on that yet. MS. DAVID: Right. But basically you have invested quite a bit of money. MR. CUMMINGS: Yes, I personally have over 2,600 hours in this particular RFP. MS. DAVID: Okay, thank you. And then that would be for phase one and two? MR. CUMMINGS: Correct. MS. DAVID: Okay. In anticipation of phase two. MR. CUMMINGS: Well, we—the equipment that we purchased so far is for phase one. We would still have additional equipment that we would need to purchase for phase one, that to we continue to do, we need to replace some equipment, we need another wheel loader. So if we're able to come to terms with a modified agreement, then we would still need to purchase new equipment. MS. DAVID: Exactly. Okay. MR. MIN: But you know, I just want to add, you know, we've also been going through the design phase for the last eight months using a local engineering firm and working with a local contractor right here on the east side, so all of that is part of the process that we're talking about. MS. DAVID: Okay. And so in your phase two process, according to your contract, would you know as far as addressing the noise issue from the equipment. I know, you said that phase two is located 1,200 feet from MR. MIN: 2,100 feet. MS. DAVID: 2,100 feet. Excuse me. MR. MIN: Yes, it's in a puka. It's in a big hole, you know, that's 40 feet deep because it was a rock quarry. Page 22 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MS. DAVID: So it was an existing rock quarry? MR. MIN: Yes. MS. DAVID: That used to grind rocks before your take— MR. MIN: Yes, right next door to us is another rock quarry that is active. MS. DAVID: Okay, okay. So, within your process then, would there be any noise studies that you're required to complete for like Department of Health or anything like that or? MR. MIN: We apply for those permits through the Department of Health for our equipment, and its existing equipment that we use at the phase one location as well. MS. DAVID: And that was approved by DOH, as far as the MR. MIN: Yes. MS. DAVID: Okay, the levels of noise produced. MR. CUMMINGS: The noise levels are consistent with what currently takes place at existing mulching sites. The only additional noise that will be brought to bear in phase two is a screen—is a screening drum to polish the finished product, be that bag number five. MS. DAVID: Okay. MR. CUMMINGS: And that has a small diesel engine on it, so it's not the impact is more dust then it is noise. MS. DAVID: And that's what I was wondering, because—thank you for sharing that the second site was a rock quarry, because I lived about a mile from a rock quarry and I could hear them grinding rocks, so. MR. CUMMINGS: Yeah, those big haul trucks make a lot of noise. MS. DAVID: Right. So, you're equipment basically on phase two, will be 2,100 feet from the nearest Hawaiian Home Lands? MR. MIN: Correct. The Pana`ewa Farm Lots. MS. DAVID: The Panaewa Farm Lots, okay. And you're getting the appropriate—has there been any requirement in this new process, I mean phase Page 23 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 two process that you're going through, for community input, community outreach, that sort of thing and any level of your? MR. MIN: As far as educational, yes. And educate them about recycling and how to divert their food waste at home as well as the commercial establishments. MS. DAVID: And have you gone out into like the Panaewa community and expressed to them what—you know, about describe your operation for them and getting comments. MR. MIN: Yeah, you know, and one of the things is that I did take up two of the community members of Panaewa to Washington to just show them and have the same touch and feel it thing, just to give them an understanding. I can tell you guys this right now, the community is our family, they're our friends, they're our neighbors. We live with them, you know, we understand and appreciate what even Terri mentioned earlier, I talked to her previously. You know, I understand what they're saying. You know, for us we're in the middle. We've been on the project that was established at this location, you know. MS. DAVID: I understand what you're saying, thank you. And I think now I have a better understanding. But I really wanted to know your position on this contract. So, thank you for doing this. I really believe that this is really necessary. I think we need to proceed, like my fellow Council Members said, in this direction. And I just needed to make sure that you know, there is nothing that you are not in compliance with according to, you know, your contract, from your point of view. And thank you for sharing that. MR. MIN: Thank you. MS. DAVID: And I'll yield for now. Thank you very much. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. Councilman Chung. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. Yeah, I don't have too many questions. Maybe just a comment. First of all, I think Ms. Poindexter brought up a good question to the Corp. Counsel, which I think he should have answered. Okay, because the answers—you've only got three answers: yes, no, maybe. Right? If its yes, explain why; if it's no, explain why. Not saying we've got to agree with it. Then if its maybe, then possibly you go into an executive session. These gentlemen have been answering every question that actually if—probably should be more appropriately put in an executive session. When you ask them how much they've spent and all of these things. Then they've been real open. And I would expect the same from our own Corporation Counsel but we can bring that up during the next phase of this committee meeting. But Marvin I have one Page 24 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 question. You know, I only learned about this thing from the newspaper, okay, this cancellation. Obviously, there was some kind of meeting that occurred prior to that newspaper article of course. There was a meeting, right? Who was in that meeting? MR. MIN: Well, actually Mark was in town and we were doing some educational outreach with along with Reed Takaaze, so the three of us, we had a call that morning. MR. CHUNG: So, who? Who was in the meeting? MR. MIN: It was the—Mr. Kamelamela. MR. CHUNG: No, okay first of all for you guys. MR. MIN: Oh, myself, Mark Cummings and Reed Takaaze. MR. CHUNG: Okay, County? MR. MIN: It was Mr. Kamelamela, Mr. Kurcharski, Mr. Takemoto. MR. CHUNG: That's Roy Takemoto? MR. MIN: Yes. Mayor, Deputy, I forgot her name, Deputy Council; I'm not sure. MR. CHUNG: Wait, the deputy or assistant? The number two? Renee Schoen? Well, there was another Corp. Counsel there. Okay, who else? Obviously the Mayor was there, right? MR. MIN: Right. MR. CHUNG: Okay. So, our Corp. Counsel; some deputy or assistant; Director, Mr. Kurcharski; Roy Takemoto, what was his function in all of that? MR. MIN: I'm not sure. MR. CHUNG: Okay. Who else? MR. MIN: That's it. MR. CHUNG: That's it? Okay. That's all I wanted to know for now. MS. O'HARA: Thank you. And just to follow up on that question, Mr. Chung, I think also wasn't our Council Chair at the meeting? Page 25 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MR. MIN: No, not at that meeting. CHR. O'HARA: No, not at that meeting. Okay, good. Thank you. Do we have anyone else? I have Sue over here, or Ms. Lee Loy wants to speak. Yeah. MS. LEE LOY: Aloha, Mr. Cummings, Mr. Min. MR. MIN: Aloha. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you so much for coming. And I appreciate your compassion for your employees, but I have a lot of compassion for my community, which is 450 -plus residential lots which probably will total upwards of a 1,000 people that sits just adjacent to this facility. So I'm actually really excited that you folks have been so open and willing to look for other alternatives, other options and other solutions. I do have a number of questions. So, I'm just going to go down the list. What type of Department of Health permits are already attached to the phase one mulching piece, and then what other Department of Health permits do you folks need to secure for the in -vessel composting? MR. CUMMINGS: Thank you, the current permits that we have at the facility or cover the phase one composting is the solid waste permit and then we have the clean air branch permits for the grinders. The grinders have to have permits for that. So we are able to do the open wind row or the enhanced composting process for the mulch under the existing permit. And so that's all in play. The other part isexcuse me, we had applied for the permit for the phase two for the in -vessel system, and we sent that in to the Department of Health as required, we got DEM to screen it and they said it was good for us to submit, so we submitted that. There were signatures required from Planning and from the County. Well, it's called the P-5 and P-6 forms that have to be signed. The P5- is the zoning clearance form that planning has to sign off on and the P-6 is the landlord or the owner of the property's signature authorizing the use of the facility. So, the Planning wasn't going to sign off until the EA was complete and the County wasn't going to sign off until they received their authorization from the State to do that. So, that it was a trigger, the EA completion—the finding of no significant impact was required before Planning would sign off it. When Planning signs off then the County would be able to sign off, and then the Department of Health would accept the permit application and then they would consider it. MS. LEE LOY: Okay, so the Department of Health permit for the mulching, are they transferable or are they site specific? Page 26 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MR. CUMMINGS: Its site specific, so if we move the existing mulching operation to another site, we would have to go through the permitting process, Department of Health would have to approve that to make sure that it met the zoning requirements and that we were able to manage the environmental impacts. MS. LEE LOY: So, I would assume the same for the phase two composting that would be site specific. MR. CUMMINGS: Correct. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. If the mulching phase one is not moved but picked up by another vendor, is it transferable to another vendor? MR. CUMMINGS: It would be if the Department of Health. But there still has to be—the transfer has to be made, so they would have to go through the process. You would have to modify the existing permit, that's a six month window. MS. LEE LOY: For the West Hawaii organic facility, how far away is it from its nearest resident, or I believe its there's some hotel -resort. What's the distance from the West Hawaii facility? MR. CUMMINGS: I'm not sure. I can't remember. I know that I've looked at it, but I apologize for I can't recall from memory. MR. MIN: About three miles. MR. CUMMINGS: Yeah, three miles. MS. LEE LOY: So, the West Hawaii facility is three miles from its nearest resident, but our East Hawaii facility is 2,000 feet. The organic piece for this phase two, will all of the island -wide organics be diverted to the East Hawaii in -vessel facility, or will it be separated half in East Hawaii, half in West Hawaii, or whatever bulk is being generated? MR. CUMMINGS: The requirement in the RFP was to manage the organics that were collected for the phase two, the food waste, the soil, paper, fiber, cardboard, things of that nature, was to be collected at the West Hawaii organics facility in a receiving building there and then mixed with mulch that's created there, so that is put into a batch that's ready to be put in the compost, into the composting system, at the east facility. So, the organics received at the west would be received in a building, who will take the mulched, the mulch greenwaste and the pallets there, and we would combine, we'd take them into the building and mix them in the building and then Page 27 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 the County was to load that, and haul that to the east organics facility to be put in to the in -vessel system. MS. LEE LOY: Okay, I think you answered some of these other questions. Okay. The water needs, I know that part of the reasons why, you know, the East Hawaii site, you know, was so advantageous was because of the rainfall. How much water do you folks need to to supplement that water piece if it's not located in Hilo? So for example at West Hawaii, how much water do we need over there? MR. CUMMINGS: We would probably need somewhere around 50,000 to 80,000 gallons a day. It's dry there and it's windy, and if you put it in an in -vessel, if you put the in -vessel system there, then we probably wouldn't need near that much water, because we would have water that we would be collecting in the building, we would reuse so that would help offset some of the water needs. And being under a cover, it also helps to retain the moisture that we put it in. In that particular system, we've got to get the moisture up to about 60 to 65 percent to get it started. So it will, by the time it's finished, it will be at 40 percent. And that makes that perfect for screening so you don't have to worry about dust, but you really have a nice finished product that polishes out of the screen nicely. So that's in the in -vessel system. An open wind row system, which would be like what we're currently doing in the—at the EHOF (East Hawaii Organics Facility), the enhanced program, if we would take that out to full finished stabilized compost, you're talking about a eight to ten week process, where we will have to put a lot of water on it. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. The interruption of service, assuming you know, you folks have to stop, how many tons are we looking at daily in that interruption of service? What's that number? MR. CUMMINGS: In Hilo it's 30 tons a day and at West Hawaii it is, I think it's 60 tons to 62 tons a day. There's some seasonality, I'll look at averages. So, yeah. MS. LEE LOY: I just have one other comment. And I just—it's related to your presentation about the phase one site and the phase two site, and I can appreciate the distance. But what you reference there is a homestead lot. But the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands actually abuts that lot, so that band, that's still Department of Hawaiian Home Lands. So I don't want to be misleading about where this is actually in relationship. I know that what you're contextually trying to show is where the nearest home is, but everybody needs to understand is, its right next door to our Hawaiian Home Lands, and it would be sad that the department wouldn't be able to lease out portions of their land because of its relationship to something that is actually a lot closer than what's being shown Page 28 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 here. So if we could just make that graphic a little bit more clear and really articulate the ownership there, I think that would go a long way. So, thank you, I yield. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. I'm asked to take a short recess because we have a technical issue that we have to resolve. Sorry. Recess: At 4:00 p.m. the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: Chair reconvened at 4:15 p.m. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, do we have anymore questions from the Council? Anyone wants to ask a question? Ms. Ruggles does, okay. MS. RUGGLES: Okay, I had a question for Mr. Min or Mr. Cummings. I was reading in the contract that you're going to be using a Gore cover system for the odor control. Is that the same system that is used in Washington? MR. MIN: Yeah, it's a Gore-tex technology, it's a MS. RUGGLES: That's all I need to know. Thank you. In the newspaper they said that—or the Mayor said he didn't like the minimum amount of compost that was required in the contract. MR. MIN: I'm sorry. MS. RUGGLES: Can you hear me? MR. MIN: Yes. MS. RUGGLES: I said the Mayor said in the newspaper that he didn't like the minimum amount of compost required in the contract, and I think Council Member O'Hara echoed his concern, at least in the paper. Can this be modified? MR. MIN: I don't understand that question about the minimum. MS. RUGGLES: There's a minimum amount of required compost for the County to provide. MR. MIN: Oh, for greenwaste? MS. RUGGLES: Yes. Page 29 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MR. MIN: Yes, yes. So, there is a limit or a minimum amount of green waste that comes through the tipping scales so that sets your parameters for your business, for your ROI. MS. RUGGLES: And can this be modified? MR. MIN: I think everything can be considered. We haven't—what you read in the paper is what we read in the paper, and that's it. MS. RUGGLES: Okay. And I also—it's okay if you can't answer this questionI was wondering if the passage of this Resolution 107-17, affects the composting facility contract in anyway. MR. MIN: Does it affectI'm not sure. MS. RUGGLES: If either one of you want answer my question, please do. MR. MIN: What was that? Can you rephrase it? CHR. O'HARA: Well, she's asking about an item that's in Finance and that's asking the Council to approve a new request for proposals for multi-year contract for mulching in East and West Hawaii. I don't believe this is a question that the company really can answer as to what the impacts would be. I think that's really a question for the administration and I see Mayor has joined us, so we will be hearing from him later. MS. RUGGLES: Okay. MR. MIN: Sorry, I'm not familiar with that request as well. MS. RUGGLES: Okay, thank you. My last question for you is the part about odor control within the contract. Is there a process for controlling—is there a process for accountability if the odor control that is currently there, is it meeting the needs of the surrounding community? Is there room for a let's say a third party monitor? MR. MIN: That is regulated by the Department of Health. MS. RUGGLES: Okay. MR. MIN: Yes, it is. MR. CUMMINGS: We'll say though, if we do get odor complaint that we take it very seriously. We investigate and deal with it as quickly as possible. Because if, there's an odor that means we're not doing something right. So, I'm very happy Page 30 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 to tell you that since we've done business at inception in Hawaii, we've never had one registered or even verbal odor complaint at any of our facilities. And we're very proud of that. MS. RUGGLES: Alright. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you, and Mr. Kanuha. MR. KANUHA: Thank you and we're going to be talking about the contract after, correct? Okay. Just a few small little questions. The enhanced mulch East and West Hawaii, I know you said there was a difference because of the rain and the wet weather, and what exactly—is it basically the same type of type of product on the West Hawaii or is it—what's the difference? MR. MIN: Yes, it's basically it's the same. It's greenwaste; however, on the west side it's 80 percent coconut leaves, husk, the more fibrous. So the product itself is a lot lighter if it was compared with the same amount of moisture content in it. But we need to get that enhanced stage by getting the moisture content. MR. KANUHA: Yeah, the one we saw over here, that's one from East Hawaii. MR. MIN: Right. MR. CUMMINGS: I will further that answer by saying that the enhancing process at the west side was specifically targeted for the fire ants. MR. KANUHA: Yeah, okay. MR. CUMMINGS: To make sure that we didn't have fire ants on that side. Without composting it, we can't control Rapid Ohi`a Death or Coffee Berry Borer or anything like that. So to compost there, we have to have fresh water or at least water that meets the—that doesn't have salt in it. Because you can compost with salt water but all it's going to do is be a ground sterilant it when you're finished, and that's kind of defeats the purpose. MR. KANUHA: Yeah, and I mean that was all the issues brought up when we were dealing with this in the first place, proposing the compost facility. I just wanted to bring up the point about the LFA (Little Fire Ant) because that was a concern of ours before; and you know, and residents are always concerned, you know, "I don't want to get the mulch," because it has in their minds, LFA. And I remember, we did talk to the previous Director of Environmental Management about that concern, and it was told to us that there was no LFA in the mulch. And then came back later and told us that they did find LFA in the mulch. But I'm and then I'm hearing again that there wasn't any LFA in the mulch. So I'm just trying figure out exactly what's the correct statement or the correct facts with LFA, Page 31 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 because you know, everybody'sI keep on getting concerns about my constituents saying that they don't want to pick up the mulch from the Pu`uanahulu site because it contains LFA. MR. CUMMINGS: I'll explain to you what our chronology is with this. We did discover fire ants using the Hawaii Ant Lab that came out to help us try to determine if we had an issue and they did run a sample when we ran it through the grinder, and then they took it back. Because the issue was can grinding solve the problem? Long story short the answer was no. There still of them that make it through that grinding process. So then we talked—we asked the Hawaii Ant Lab, if we compost, if we did the composting, if we run it through the heat treatment which is getting it over 131 degrees for 15 days and turned inside and out five times, if that would take care of the problem and they said "yes." We actually talked to the State Department of Agriculture about Rapid Ohi` a Death as well, and they confirmed that yes if we can meet those temperatures for that time period, that we can control it. So, and that is the composting process. MR. KANUHA: That's the current process happening in the West Hawaii and the East Hawaii. MR. CUMMINGS: Well, that's what's happening in the East Hawaii. MR. KANUHA: Okay. MR. CUMMINGS: The west side we're turning it inside and out but it generates heat and it gets hot but we cannot assure that we've met all of those requirements. The STA (Seal of Testing Assurance) requirements, the composting requirements to have killed everything's that's in there, because we don't—because it dries out in about 10 days. MR. KANUHA: Yeah, yeah. MR. CUMMINGS: It will go about a 160 as quick as you put it in a row and it'll stay there. So you've got to manage that material once it dries off it goes ambient, and then the process is dormant. MR. KANUHA: Okay, so basically on the west side, there's a good change that could be LFA face still in the mulch that we're giving out? MR. CUMMINGS: If LFA were found present at the facility and when we were unable to do the processes that the Ant Lab says work, then yes. That's why we test it every month and that's why we keep our peanut butter traps out to try to locate them. Page 32 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MR. KANUHA: Okay. MR. CUMMINGS: We have the Ant Lab coming out looking at it. That they do their inspections monthly at both locations. MR. KANUHA: Okay. Which is why the composting facility is really necessary. Just a real quick question. I know we're going to get into the contract afterwards, but a comment made about earlier from a testifier about the EA (Environmental Assessment) and the common period. That really wasn't a comment period for the residents surrounding. I just want to get some clarification on that. MR. CUMMINGS: Well, I don't want to pass the buck, but the EA process was the County's responsibility. MR. KANUHA: Okay, I can ask afterwards. MR. CUMMINGS: So the Department of Environmental Management was responsible for that portion, to get the EA. MR. KANUHA: Okay. Okay, no problem. I yield. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. Councilman Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Just to follow up on Councilman Kanuha's question, for the enhanced composting. Have you done the experiment in West Hawaii in how much water it actually would take per ton or whatever? MR. CUMMINGS: We haven't done that. We certainly can to get quantification for that but we have not done that. MR. RICHARDS: Okay and then best guesstimate? I mean I know, what West Hawaii is like, I know what is Pu`upohaku is like, I know. MR. CUMMINGS: Yeah, it's those 50 miles an hour winds that are hot in the summer that take the (inaudible) out of everything. MR. RICHARDS: Right, and I got you, I'm just trying to get an idea of quantity of water. MR. CUMMINGS: Yeah, generally on something like that, about anywhere from 60,000 to 80,000 of gallons a day is a pretty good—based upon the quantity of materials that come into that facility. MR. RICHARDS: You're talking about 60 tons a day? Did I understand that correctly? Page 33 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MR. CUMMINGS: Between 60 and 70. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. MR. CUMMINGS: The process it's—when we get it wet up front in an open circumstance MR. RICHARDS: I understand. MR CUMMINGS: It dries out so we got to keep adding water to it. MR. RICHARDS: I understand. CHR. O'HARA: Alright. Councilman Chung. MR. CHUNG: Just a brief question, it's a follow up to what Mr. Kanuha asked. Actually it's the same question, but maybe you can answer this. Okay, Ms. Napeahi stated earlier that an Environmental Assessment—while doing the Environmental Assessment period the whole issue wasn't brought to their attention until later. And then you said, well you can't really comment because it wasn't under your purview, right, the Environmental Assessment. But you guys were on board when it was being conducted, right? MR. CUMMINGS: Right. MR. CHUNG: Who was doing the Environmental Assessment? MR. CUMMINGS: The Environmental Assessment was contracted out to PBR Hawaii. MR. CHUNG: Okay. And you know who was doing it for them? MR. CUMMINGS: The person that we met at the community meeting was Roy Takemoto. MR. CHUNG: Okay, the same person working for the Mayor's Office, right now, right. And who was in that meeting with you guys right, okay. Okay, so maybe we can ask him some questions later on, okay. Thank you. CHR. O'HARA: Alright. Thank you. Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: A real quick follow up question, and I'm loving what I'm learning today, peanut butter sticks and slug jugs. For the phase two composting, Page 34 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 the mulch that you folks giving away for free now, on the compost, when we get to that is that going to be for free? MR. CUMMINGS: The intent is to try to develop market, and we don't know because we don't know what the market's going to be for compost. If nobody will pay for it then it will be free. But we anticipate that because it's going to be a really nice product and it will have great value, that there will be demand for the product that will offset the imported fertilizers and command some price. MS. LEE LOY: I have a lot of questions about the EA process, but we're going to get back to that later. So, I'm good. CHR. O'HARA: Do I see any other questions from the Council Members? MR. MIN: Yeah, I just wanted to clarify speaking to Terry Napeahi and Hawaiian Earth meeting with the neighboring community. No, we did not meet with their community board meetings. We just basically took two people from the community to show them what our facility looks like and what it would be built into. And so again, part of the community meetings was handled through the County, because we're just the operator. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you for the clarification. I'm just going to ask a few simple questions, based on the product that's made in Washington, the in -vessel compost, what is the NPK on that? For those of you who don't know it's nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous, okay. Those are your three basic nutrients needed to make plants grow? Okay. MR. CUMMINGS: I'llI'm going off of memory from history. CHR. O'HARA: Okay. MR. CUMMINGS: It's about 1.4 nitrogen. CHR. O'HARA: Okay. MR CUMMINGS: It's about .5 p2o5 phosphorus and about .9 k2o, potassium. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, and do you have similar data on the enhanced mulch? MR. CUMMINGS: Yes, we do. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, and what would that be? MR. CUMMINGS: It's about .9, .4, .7, NPR. Page 35 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 CHR. O'HARA: Okay, got you. MR. CUMMINGS: in NPK. CHR. O'HARA: Alright, I asked that question as a follow up to Mr. Kanuha's comment that maybe we don't need the in -vessel composting, and the reason it's different than the type of wind row composting that they are doing now is that they are doing now with greenwaste is that we're adding another waste stream and that would be food waste, which is a big component of what goes into our landfill currently. And it is a bit problematic in landfill management. There is also the possibility of using other high nitrogen substances like bio -solids. And the company did not bid on bio -solids because it was not in the request for proposals. But that is another source that could be used in in -vessel composting and also contains quite a bit of moisture, which is something that is lacking in West Hawaii. But I was just trying to identify the value of the finished product. And it does appear that your enhanced mulch is a really highly valuable product for our gardeners and the agricultural community, which is something that we cannot ignore here because our rock, as somebody clarified, does not have highly nutritious soils and we're very deficient in the basic nutrients needed to support agriculture and home gardens and that sort of thing. So very important that we add in those nutrients. So, thank you. One other question, when you were working for the two to three years to get this contract in place, who was the primary individual at Purchasing that you worked with to get this contract together? MR. CUMMINGS: Purchasing was Jeffrey Dansdill. CHR. O'HARA: Jeffrey Dansdill. And in terms of Corporation Counsel, did you work with any of our in-house attorneys? MR. CUMMINGS: Belinda Hall. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. Okay, I think that brings us to the end of this discussion. And we have one more item on the agenda. So could I ask for a vote on the measure before us? All those in favor of filing this communication, or these reports from both Hawaiian Earth Recycling, as well as from Recycle Hawaii. Please say "aye." Page 36 EMC -2 Vote on Comm. 110 The motion to close file on Comm. 110 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. March 7, 2017 CHR. O'HARA: Okay, it passed unanimously, Clerk. And thank you gentlemen very much, for your time. I know it's gotten late in the day and I really appreciate that you were able to hang in there with us. MR. CUMMINGS: Thank you for the opportunity. CHR. O'HARA: Okay. Are we good, good? Do we need another break? No? Okay, good. Okay, let's move forward then. Clerk, can you read the third communication in. Comm. 116: REQUESTS DISCUSSION REGARDING MAYOR HARRY KIM'S POSSIBLE CANCELLATION/TERMINATION OF THE CONTRACT FOR THE COUNTY COMPOSTING FACILITY, AS REPORTED IN THE FEBRUARY 5, 2017, ARTICLE IN THE HAWAII TRIBUNE -HERALD From Council Members Aaron S. Y. Chung and Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated February 13, 2017. Motion to Close File: Mr. Chung moved to close file on Comm. 116. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha. CHR. O'HARA: Okay. Thank you very much. I must say when this was originally filed by Mr. Chung and Ms. Lee Loy, there was at that point one newspaper article. There has been several more, I think a total of four that have appeared. All of those were provided in your folders. I didn't know if you wanted to extend the discussion to everything that's been in the news or just stick with the first article. MR. CHUNG: I think we have to go with what's relevant, if that's okay with you and the rest of the members? CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. MR. CHUNG: Really, I mean the fact that we weren't able to expand it, it's just a function of you know, the constraints that we have here. Yeah, the Council in Page 37 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 terms of agendizing matters and you know the time delays that take place but I think all of us deserve relevant information as well as does the public. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. MR. CHUNG: So, will that be okay? CHR. O'HARA: That's fine. Let's just keep it to the discussion of those articles. And we asked the Mayor to be here, and he is here. Mayor, would you like to come forward? (Note: At this time, Mayor Harry Kim and Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. O'HARA: We have before us the Honorable Harry Kim, Mayor; and his Corporation Counsel, Joe Kamelamela. MR. KAMELAMELA: Excuse me. Can I make one correction? CHR. O'HARA: Absolutely. MR. KAMELAMELA: I'm not his Corp. Counsel. CHR. O'HARA: I'm sorry, I did not mean it that way. MR. KAMELAMELA: I'm the people's Counsel. CHR. O'HARA: Very good, Joe. Thank you. MR. KAMELAMELA: That's what I've told you each one of you. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. MR. KAMELAMELA: When I was confirmed and even going through the process on January 4th, I had told each one of you and stated to each one of you, I'm not the Mayor's attorney, I'm not the—now when I have a letter that threatens lawsuit, I take it serious. And when Mr. Chung challenges me, you're saying that I'm stating things in public, no. I remember what Chair Poindexter said on January 25, that I'm going to take things seriously, so when I had made the comment that we needed to go into executive session, it's because I'm representing the County. So I'm not the Mayor's attorney. CHR. O'HARA: I'm sorry, Mr. Kamelamela, my apologies. That was slip on my part and you are Corporation Counsel for the County of Hawaii. Thank you. Page 38 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MR. CHUNG: Or do you want to. I mean, it's very simple. Yeah, first of all, I wanted to thank Mayor Kim for coming here. I apologize actually, for the confusion. First, we told you to come, then we told you no need come, and then you have to come, okay, I mean if you could. So I know it's late but I really appreciate you being here. But look, Mayor, I think most of usI don't know, now this is the first that I heard maybe Ms. Poindexter was in some kind of meeting with you guys. We heard that today. I don't know if that's true, but regardless, I think most of us on this Council learned about the possible cancellation of this composting contract in the newspaper on, I think it was a Sunday. But I had also seen posts on Facebook the day earlier, Saturday, where some people in the Pana`ewa Homesteads were saying that they received a call from you and they were all elated that this thing was cancelled. I don't know if it's true, I'm just reading post, right. But you know, for us to learn about this after the fact—and you know Mayor, I don't want—you know, please don't take this as a criticism, but it's my own personal feeling. When you were here, just like when Joe was saying what—you know, what he promised all of us. You said that one thing that you want to improve on from the last time was your communication with the Council. And for us to hear something like this, this is something that we put in a lot of time, okay. I don't know if you know the total background to all of this, but when it first started, this composting—the idea of a composting contract, it was pitched by Mayor Kenoi, but it was pitched as a one year experimental. But Margaret Wille said that she wants to see this composting facility come to fruition on before she dies. So we put her to task, we said, "Okay Margaret, do something about it." And she came up with this idea of the 10 -year contract and two five-year options. We gave the County, well, we gave the administration authority to move ahead with something like this, which they did. And we were kept completely outside of that whole contracting process because that's not really our kuleana, and it's best that we not interfere in that anyway, and we let the process go. And I know the County expended a lot of money on that, because we had to hire consultants. So, now I read in the paper on a Sunday, my fears are realized. What I heard the day before, or what read the day before on Facebook is really coming to fusion. But I figured at least we have to let you, the Chief Executive of the County, explain your reasoning for doing that. So if you could, please. MAYOR KIM: Thank you, Mr. Chung. And I'm not making fun of the whole situation because this is a very serious situation. I heard every one of your comments on communication. I really believe, even at this time, I did everything what I thought was right, in regards to communication, as ironic as that may sound. Because you are correct in regards to, you know if you were not Page 39 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 communicated with, so if you don't mind I'll go very briefly and the history of what happened. My first exposure to this is well after you and others were involved in regards to this project. It was one of those meetings. Obviously like others, I read in the paper in regards to the dissatisfaction of people in Pana`ewa and the location of it. A meeting request was made by representatives of that community in regards to that concern. Knowing very little of it, you try to fast read something so you can at least have a background of what this is all about. It was at that time that I felt that the contract as stated publicly was not a very good contact for the people of Hawaii Island. And not very good for two reasons I said, that of cost and the whole operations of it. So, when the members of the community came to my office for the scheduled meeting I did tell them exactly that. You know, I need to read this contract. At that time, I did not have the people I would depend on you know, Bill (Kucharski) in regards to DEM cabinet member to review it. So I told them I would do that, and then once I finished that, you know, I would let them know what my decision is on this. Because I knew nothing about the contract prior to that. I did not know the contract stated specifically the location or anything like that. So, these are the kinds of reasons you have to state, give me time to read it. When I got the report back that I asked Bill to do, a review of this contract, it was because they were things within that contract that started to be red flagged by me as what I felt that not a very good contract for the two things of costs, which is naturally my responsibility; and that of the meeting the goals of solid waste. When I got his report we had staff meeting discussion on it. MR. CHUNG: Who's report you're talking about? MAYOR KIM: Bill's. MR. CHUNG: Okay. MAYOR KIM: You know, I concluded very simply based on their report that this was not a good contract financially, for the people of this land. This was not a good contract to meet the goals in regards to our solid waste. From there on in, and I am being serious, Mr. Chung, that I really thought, okay you know, you need to notify certain people of this possibility this contract may be pursued for termination. Stressing the word "may" at that time. I don't have the newspaper article what word they used but this is what we said. I contacted Ms. Poindexter, I contacted members of the Pana`ewa Community in regards what we were going to consider. Page 40 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 These are the kind of times, Mr. Chung, that you wished there was a little flexibility on the Sunshine Law, because truly more than once I've wished for an opportunity to address all of the Council Members at once on something like this. It's not decision making or anything like that, and I'm not contesting the credibility validity of the Sunshine Law, I'm just saying there are times that I could wish I could talk to the Council, you know, that no decision was made, but just for information. So what I did, you know, I knew I had to communicate with the Council. Ms. Poindexter is obviously the Chair Woman. I contacted her if she could possibly meet with me, and I knew I imposed on her time. I forgot what time it was but I know it was late. Not at late as this, Mr. Chung. No, I won't make light of this. As wrong as it may sound, and obviously for what you stated, that was not adequate. But I felt that was my chain to communicate with Council, to let her know that this was going to be done and the basic reason of why we were going to pursue the possibility of this. I then contacted the Pana`ewa community, saying the same. There is my extent of the communication, and naturally the media gets word of it, and I say the same. Even at this point, Mr. Chung, in my mind I was not aware, I think you know this, of all the workI know there's a lot of work with a contract like this. I was not aware of who did what. Matter of fact, to the contractor, obviously, my responsibility was for them also. And they were contacted if they could come to the office to meet, so we could tell them of this possibility. And I thought it was a good meeting. I told them the exactly the same thing I told the public and I told Ms. Poindexter and I told the media, the two reasons why I felt this was not a good contact for the people of Hawaii. And I have to beI think some of you know me on the sincerity of this and my staff will tell you, I've said it in private many times, I'm not out, here, to make anyone look bad. You know, I did ask the contractor, were you involved in the development of this contract and the answer was no, end of question. I welcome this inquiry, any inquiry that you may have with the people, who would have the background information in regards to why I made that position in regards to not a good contract for the people of Hawaii for those two reasons, of handling of solid waste and the goals of it, the responsibility of the County, both financially and operationally. I'll be glad to answer or have people available to you to answer that in detail and I truly mean it. I really believe that if you take the time to review why we made it, point by point, hopefully you'll agree that our goals of responsibility of what is a good contract, meeting our needs will be answered. And hopefully you'll understand why we made that decision. Page 41 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 You know, Mr. Chung I knew how big this contract was, obviously. I asked a lot of questions in regards to cost to make that decision. I made it quite clear and if they are still here, then they'll verify this that they were told, my staff was told, everyone was told, including Ms. Poindexter, you know, we don't want to go public, and just you know, all criticism, negative. I carefully picked those words, "financially" and "operationally," and left it at that. But I know your responsibilities and I welcome you to talk to the people who prepared the report, and review it point by point. And I will state quite clearly, that's my communication especially to Council the way you found out but I thought I was following what I thought was the right way to do it with the time element, of Council, of the Pana`ewa community, and the contractor, all with the same message what we're going to do and why. MR. CHUNG: Okay, and thank you for that explanation. And I want to make one thing clear even if I was surprised and put off by reading it about it in the paper or the day before on Facebook, that's a non -issue really. The issue really comes down to whether the decision you made or want to make was a sound one and in the best interest of the County. But if we do, if you allow me to digress maybe a better way would have been if you had concerns about it, get on the agenda and present it to the Council. The entire body, public can hear, we can hear and we can weight in but that's just my thought, that might have been a better protocol, okay. But now, you talked about a report from Mr. Kurcharski, that sort of triggered, well I don't know if it triggered—it but maybe you know him to look at it and he provided you a report. I don't think we have a copy of that report. Did we could we also have a copy of that report, too? Because I'm sure it will explain a lot. MR. KAMELAMELA: Before we get there, you know, the report was done, you know, in my presence, you know. That wasn't represented. And because there's a threat of a lawsuit, you know, we can supply the report, but that's going to be confidential. Is that okay? MR. CHUNG: I think that's standard practice for your office to say that, yes. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, and Mr. Chung, just to also make it clear, what I did yesterday, I had delivered a letter to each one of you. Because on March 1st we had received a letter from Mr. Bingham, and I felt that at that time it was important enough to write things down on paper because when you read the letter, there was one option to take that was taken by the administration, and that's the option that's stated in the letter. Page 42 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 This letter is something that I would present to one court. I didn't feel like a letter like this that was delivered to you yesterday should be undercover, because publicly, you know, we had to state our reasons why did March 1st letter, you know, is wrong. MR. CHUNG: The March 1st letter, which one is that? MR. KAMELAMELA: Oh, you actually had received it, because— MR. CHUNG: I mean I could look, but if you could just tell whose letter, which letter or MR. KAMELAMELA: No, no. I did a March 6th letter to respond to Mr. Bingham's March 1 letter. And the reason why I had submitted to each one of you, because he actually cc'd each one of you. Now, I don't know why he did that, but it's irrelevant at this time. All I know is when somebody publicly states something that I believe it's untruthful, unjustified, unwarranted, I'm going to respond as the Corp. Counsel. That was something public. I have no fear the letter that I sent you MR. CHUNG: Okay, Joe. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Let's get to the merits first of what was behind Mayor Kim's decision. You know, you've been kind of coming in as the people's attorney and maybe protecting the people, but I wanted to hear from him. MR. KAMELAMELA: No, no, no. I just wanted to state, so that—because it goes along with the Mayor's idea of being open. MR. CHUNG: That's exactly right, I think we all want openness. MR. KAMELAMELA: But—but there is a limit to being open. I'm conservative in nature when we are either serving a complaint or threatened with a lawsuit, I take it very seriously for the people. MR. CHUNG: We all do, and I assure you that we all feel the same way as you, Joe. Okay, anyway. So, Mayor. MAYOR KIM: Yes, sir. MR. CHUNG: You spoke of, and we will get a copy of the report, right? MAYOR KIM: Yes. MR. CHUNG: And I mean does it have to be marked confidential, though? I'm wondering. Page 43 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MAYOR KIM: We'll make sure you get a copy of the report. MR. KAMELAMELA: It should be marked confidential, only because that would be a trigger for your County Clerk to pick it up. MR. CHUNG: And then why—well, we can talk about this maybe in Executive Session. I'm just kind of wondering why a document from a County department to its Mayor has to be confidential. But there might be some things in there, I mean we spoke about openness and within a minute or two we talked about confidentiality. I'd say, just let everything, you know, be in the open. But I'm more liberal in that regard, yeah. But Mayor, you spoke about two issues; costs and meeting the goals of the solid waste management plan. Can you say now, tell us specifically how the costs were grounds for a cancellation and how a lack of meeting the goals of the solid waste management plan were bad. You have to tell us specifically. MR. KAMELAMELA: Okay, so I know the Mayor wants to speak, but as the attorney for the people again, I advise of because there's a threat of lawsuit you know, I'm going to advise you not to say anything. MR. CHUNG: You're advising who, me or him? MR. KAMELAMELA: It's the Mayor. MR. CHUNG: And what's he going to do? It's up to him what he wants to do. MR. KAMELAMELA: Well, it's up to him. MR. CHUNG: Because he's the Mayor of the people, too. And he's always advocated openness in Government. MAYOR KIM: You know a thousand years ago, when I was a young kid somebody said the world would be better without attorneys. You guys know I'm kidding. I understand, obviously, two attorneys, obviously, you know, I'm not. Before I go on and answer, Mr. Chung, every one of my staff heard me say this. - really am not in the business of what we're doing to put down people publicly, or even privately, right? I really wish this question would end here in accepting the importance of that, and where you could get your private meetings and your reports to show why I thought this was—and I'll use the word I used—this was a bad contract financially for the people of Hawaii. Now I heard what Joe, Corporation Counsel, people's attorney said, that because this is litigation, it's a different ball Page 44 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 game. I know that, you know. Not that I like it but I know that. I don't want to say or do anything to jeopardize the—the County government of Hawaii case. So I will count on somebody telling me stop. MR. CHUNG: I'm not telling you stop. MAYOR KIM: You're not going to tell me to stop even though I jeopardize the—okay, forget that I said that. But you know what I'm trying to say. MR. CHUNG: Right. MAYOR KIM: But also, I'll answer your questions best as I can. MR. CHUNG: Right, and you know—and the thing, not to make light of it, but really the decision that put us in jeopardy was the decision to cancel, not the decision to expose information to us. MAYOR KIM: I'll answer that, okay. I'll answer that. MR. CHUNG: And you know, I started the whole discussion off by giving you some prefacing remarks about what we went through. And that's why for me and the others who areI cannot speak for them but I have to believe for those who are on the Council that worked on this matter, it's something that's really dear to our heart, I would go so far as to say, this is probably the most important thing that we moved, you know, during the last two years. MAYOR KIM: Okay then, I'll answer it. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. MAYOR KIM: You must know how difficult it is at times not to state certain things. But when you have certain kind of things guide you on what you should not do, I say the very same thing to the contractor, I say the same thing to Ms. Poindexter, I say the same thing to you, I say the same to the staff I just want to say openly that this was a bad contract financially for the people of Hawaii. If you want me to discuss that, and you have made it clear, what do you mean by bad? Okay, you didn't use those words but you want me to explain the reasons for the financial statement. I'll just use round numbers. I could not understand in reading the contract and verified by Bill, why we were paying such a high cost of what an operations that was being done since July 1st that did not benefit the people of Hawaii. Page 45 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 I did not understand and specifically identified in staff discussion, why the County was responsible for the payment of so many things, because my question would be asked who is responsible for this. And every question I asked was the County. And I could not understand. This is why I asked the question of staff, who was responsible for this, because maybe they can explain it to me because nobody else could, about the kind of things that this contract made the County of Hawaii pay for with no gain. The element of something that is precious in regards to the product, the composting, you ask questions like who's paying for the facility; who's paying for the transport, who's paying for the gathering, who's paying for the container? Every question I asked because the red flags would come up, was "The County." Then I started to add up the cost and verify it by Bill, round numbers, what this meant. On cost, the decision was this was a bad contract for the people of Hawaii. Now in regards to the product itself, who will own the composting material? The contractor. What is the responsibility of the County government of Hawaii in regards to the composting material? Zero? You measure all of that, the quantity, how much will this take away in regards of the quantity of the solid waste, and it's such a small amount in comparison to the whole. The only thing it will eliminate from the landfill is the food product. We are already composting all of the wood products, you know that. That will not change with this project. I ask all of you, and I'm really asking all of you, you know, that the decision to notify community, contractor, if he's back there, I'm sure they will verify what we're talking about in regards to the way we presented it to them. And I'll tell you an inside joke in regards to when he responded, what I wanted to do, what I felt needed to be done for the sake of our goals of solid waste. Our financial responsibility to the people of this island that this was a bad contract. And I'm looking to at that time terminating the possibility of the end of this contract. His response to me was so positive at that time because he said, "Oh, that's your authority." That's his exact words. "That is your authority." MR. CHUNG: Who was that? MAYOR KIM: Oh, what was his name? MR. KAMELAMELA: I have Ed Cummings and Marvin Min was there, plus MAYOR KIM: He will tell you since he is back there that I joked. And I joked, you know, that I don't' know whether to stand up and hug you or what. Because I let them say that because I was so, you know, happy with his response that I interpreted that he understood it, that it's not a problem. In regards to the other question, I assure you I asked the importance of continuing the mulching. What I asked Bill, you know, and Corporation Counsel is, first of Page 46 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 all, in the legal opinion—which I am not an attorney, I have to depend on the attorneys obviously—is there a way we can modify this contract with the present contractor, who I've said publicly and privately that there is no disappointment, dissatisfaction, with their mulching aspect of the contract. This is the composting side, the hotel, I knew, with tremendous cost factor to the County of Hawaii. I don't blame private business. Private business is to make money. The drafting of contract and review by everyone, I think they did not add the numbers right. That's why I made that statement. But in regards to this contractor, he will say is there a way we can continue this mulching contract without affecting the termination of this contract, because I am satisfied and happy with their performance of the job. And I was told no, because of the high risks in regards to violation, not going out to RFP. Because I knew, this is, in short, a new contract. And I talked with Ms. Hara, she knows that. Obviously, you know, she has a different opinion on it and she expressed it to me, in a good way. But that's what I'm caught in, in regards to what I can do legally. But the first goal that you must know, Mr. Chung that they were told, with others in the room and in regards to I think was Reed was there. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, he was there. MAYOR KIM: They will tell you, specifically, there is no thing about your mulching aspect of your contract. Very satisfied with it. He will tell you, is there a way we can continue this contract as agreed on July 1st last year, to 10 years from now? I was told legally they advised against it. I went with that decision. And if you talked to the reporter, who talked to me I think day before yesterday on this, what was your opinion in regards to they might file suit. You know, what I told her, Ms. Lauer, if she's back there will tell you, I said I welcome it. Maybe this is will open the door for possible negotiation as far as a new contract. That is still my goal. And you want to hear my frustration, members of the Council, it's not towards you. I truly thought that every single decision I made was made right by law, right by the conscientious of what was right for the people of this island. I hope you will review the report, for that is why I made the decision, the basis of why the decision was made. Two points, it was a bad contract for the people of this island financially, review that. If you come up with a different decision on that, fine but please review that. The second, operationally, does it meet and work towards the County's and people's goal in regards to solid waste? And you read it and you will see, no. Page 47 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 If, I'm getting—if I sound a little irritated I am but not at you. What would you say? I should have done a better job in communicating with you people. I ask you to accept the fact that I thought the numbers that I went by of community, Council, media, contractor, all done in the same day, was the right way to go. You point out, I should have done better. I won't disagree with that. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. Anyway, you know, I don't want to get, I guess we're not going to get into all of the specifics because looks like, you know, you're going to be testifying in court on behalf of the County or the people of whatever. But I'll tell you right now, Harry. If I'm the judge, and based on what you explained, if that is a relevant issue in a trial, that's not enough, okay. It still shows too much subjectivity and if it's within your right to do it, fine. That's what we can talk to Joe about later on, you know, what kind of authority you had in that regard but that has to be in an executive session. I will say this, there is a lot going, you know, for the composting. You know, you keep on talking on you wanting to continue the mulching, but the composting is a very important component over here. And it is, yes, going to cost a lot of money, no question about it. But it serves a lot of purposes, all of these things meld in, invasive species. And before we authorized this resolution, before we passed the resolution, we weren't even discussing Rapid `Ohi`a Death. That came to the floorI mean it should have been on our radar prior to that, but the discussion only generated after we passed this resolution. We had the fire ant issues, we had all these other issues but now we have Rapid `Ohi`a Death. It's going to cost money, because if we did it ourselves—this is what you got to look at, in terms of the costs, what if we've got to do it ourselves, okay? And I think we should. Harry, you pitched a waste -to -energy program, $125 million. I wrote a view point in support of that saying we should give Mayor Kim, and I was out of office at that time, but we should give Mayor Kim at least the opportunity of exploring all options. But $125 million waste -to -energy plant, there are a lot of parallels with that and this. At the end of the term, we were going to own the facility and all energy that was generated, we would get it. We don't know if it's going to be obsolete or what, but we would own it. Same thing here, $10 million for a composting facility at the end of the term, we own this thing. We put it, I think we put it in one these documents. Danny Paleka brought that up, he said we want to own this project. This was a beautiful mix of all of these ideas coming in, you know. This is manini compared to $125 million waste -to -energy project. And I've got to tell you this, I have too—my imagination maybe starts to, you know, take me a little further than I'd like to because I have so much respect, you know, of you, Harry. But right around that same time we see that the Planning Department had approved a waste -to -energy, Page 48 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 well, I don't know if you call it approved, but there was some kind of approval relating to a waste -to -energy plant in West Hawaii. I don't know if it has anything to do with anything but you got to start thinking, maybe there is something. I've got to be honest. CHR. O'HARA: I'm sorry, my mic wasn't on. Thank you, Mr. Chung, for the questions. I'm just going to have to stop it there. And Mayor, please answer his question, and then we're going to move on to other questions. Thank you. MAYOR KIM: Thank you. The idea of composting was never, ever stated that it was not a good thing to proceed or pursue. Never, never even hinted. What was said many times over, including today Mr. Chung, was just this: the contract was a very bad contract, was the word I used for the people of this island, financially. All I ask—because we're not going to resolve anything here, because you don't have the information. You talk about the ownership of the facility; oh we're going to pay for it. We're going to pay for it 100 percent for the new contract. Of course at the end of the 10 years the contract is over, it's ours. Everything there is ours. The contract also says the contractor will be responsible for the construction, design, selecting the contractor, et cetera, et cetera. What is our goal? Zero. Every aspect I'm asking you to read about I think you will understand, I didn't say you will agree, but I think you will understand what I said was it was a bad contract. And financially, would you not question the cost factor if you were to buy something and find out this is way too expensive, way too expensive, way unreasonable. I'm not going to resolve anything here, all I'm asking, I invite you, I truly invite you to go and read that contract in regards to who is doing what, who is going to pay for it, the whole aspect of cost. Then go read the report in regards to the whole contract, and in regards to the whole picture of solid waste. On your statement of the waste to energy, we followed the Integrated Solid Waste Plan that was directed and mandated to us, signed by the Council, signed by the Mayor, signed by the director, the department have to follow. We followed it to the letter, to the letter, which also, included a working group to include a member of the Council, which we did. It didn't say member of the Council, it was our choice to make sure of the involvement of the Council, the price of $122 to $140 (million) was an estimation based by the contractor without the HELCO estimation of what they would pay, because those things were so flexible. This is all the pluses and minuses on it. But that's a totally different issue but it is the same issue when us Mr. Chung, working with you and for you to decide what is best for this island. Page 49 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 And as I explained to you in private on her request, and to her because we requested here, there is no, no discussion at the process of what we're trying to achieve was a bad one. What was stated was the agreement on doing it was a bad contract for the people of this island. And I will stand on that because that is the basis on which I took the hard decision to call everybody in at the same day to advise them what I'm going to do. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. Thank you for the answer, and I see Ms. Poindexter has her light on. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, just for clarification purposes, because I know a lot has been brought up about meeting with me. And yes, I appreciate, the Mayor had called me in on Friday afternoon, and shortly thereafter had a call already from Margaret Wille, who already knew. Then I was going to put in a call to Eileen, which I did because she is the Chair of the Environmental Management Committee and to let her know. But she already knew, as well. So, and then on Monday I was going call Corp. Counsel if I should craft the letter to let—but by then it broke out in the news and everything. So I just wanted to clarify that and the only reason why I wanted to contact Corp. Counsel is just to err in the side of caution on the Sunshine violation and making sure that I didn't cross any lines. So, thank you Mayor for letting me know, even if it was on a Friday. And thank you, Eileen for taking me next. MAYOR KIM: You know the irony of that, Ms. Poindexter. You know how I tried to get in touch with you if you possibly could meet. There's something magical about the coconut wireless. I really don't know how things just boom, you know. I thought I was controlling it of calling you and calling the contractor, calling Pana`ewa people, you know, media, all within a certain time. And you find out, that you just call the Myna Bird and he'll take of everything. But that's why I pointed out what we really tried to do on that one day. And I'll say again, that's the kind of times, you wish you could call all the Council Members and have a discussion and not worry about the Sunshine. And to this day, in the future I will talk to you guys about how better to do it. But I thought, common sense, Chairperson, Pana`ewa, media, contractor. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, well thank you for that. I think one thing you may have left out Mayor, is Facebook. Sorry. Okay, I think Ms. Lee Loy has a question or two. MS. LEE LOY: Good evening. You know, I did have a lot of questions, and it really just boiled down what the business decision was, how that was made. You know, and I keep hearing it's the economics, economics; and unfortunately, we haven't had the opportunity to see Mr. Kurcharski's kind of evaluation and I Page 50 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 really think that would go a really long way for us, because we're at the end of the day. We're looking at a decision you made and then picking up those pieces, and how we move forward economically to keep a go of addressing our solid waste. And I completely understand, Mayor, the business decision you made but there's a lot of smart people on this Council who have a lot of history on how we got here. And I really wish in the future you start tapping on that, because there's a number of resolutions, there was a number of impetus behind those resolutions on why those business decisions was made as a Council. And let's face it, the money that goes behind it, this is not a cheap ticket item. Going cost something; going cost something. You know, that's just my comment. I really want to understand, you know, what Mr. Kurcharski put behind. I got the contract, I read it a lot. You know, there's ways. There are ways. And you know, please keep us in the loop, you know, and if we got to go into executive session to have this business conversation, you know I'm ready for that too. MAYOR KIM: On that, I follow by law the Integrated Solid Waste Plan to the letter. I was lucky that when I first became your Mayor, solid waste was a major issue at that time because we were nearing capacity in our landfill. One of the first letters brought to me by staff was from the Department of Health which says, "You are hereby instructed that your landfill is nearing capacity and you shall close it by December," in less than one year. And citing reasons why, and you naturally hit the scramble button and have a meeting with them to see what can be done to buy us more time. Because of their cooperation and because of staff and people working together it worked out. Time bought was several years. The main issue here is we are required to follow that plan, Integrated Solid Waste Plan. The plan that was supposed to be renewed, I think it was updated in the year 2000 and what—nine? Five years later, 2014, stated the County government would not pursue any waste -to -energy programs until the plan is updated in the year 2014. That was changed. As you know, that deadline has been expanded five years, so the plan will be updated now by 2019. We will follow the requirement of that; will be made input with the community, and obviously staff, and obviously Council. A lot of people ignore that because not of ignoring it, just you know, just not aware of that, we have to follow that. I think when there was a problem, I think some members of the Council will tell you that they got personal calls from me in regards when I was not the Mayor, to just be aware of that, very quietly. I will follow that, I know your priorities, and coming up before you with good projects that you can buy into in regards to how long term and short term goals of Page 51 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 our solid waste, and we will do that. The thing that I am learning here, I've got to be better in communicating the pluses of what we're doing with the Council. And I've already said it, I will do that. CHR. O'HARA: Why thank you, Mayor. I see another light on and couple of them. Ms. Ruggles. MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for being here. I just had a couple of questions where I understand the two points that Mayor Kim is making. Which is financially doesn't make sense and operationally doesn't meet our zero waste goals of the County. What I'm still waiting to hear is why and what those specifics are. You did mention that we are going to pay for the facility a 100 percent, I don't see why that's unreasonable. I would see it being unreasonable if we had to pay for it 500 percent more of what it cost. But 100 percent is sound. So I guess I feel what we're needing is the specifics of why it doesn't fit those two criteria. Thank you. MAYOR KIM: Ms. Ruggles, I tried with all of the questions this evening to stick to what I said I would not do and make this a public battle of this bad, and what makes it bad. I will stick to that because you will have the opportunity in privacy. If it was where you will not have the opportunity to see what I'm talking about, then I would not blame you for being, you know, irritated that I'm not answering your questions. The report is available to you. You can read it in full, you can call me in for discussion in private, and I'll gladly do it. All I'm asking at this point is for you to accept why I made the decision. And I'm sure there are people, you know, "Why don't he just say so?" That the cost was too high. It's not just buying something that you pay more for, that's every contractor, that's their job to make money, you know, I accept that. When I'm looking at the cost of the whole cost. This is not a good project or contract. But this is a good project in regards to composting. Please understand I never said that composting part of it is bad, it was the cost factor that was bad. MS. RUGGLES: Okay, we hear you. Thank you. MAYOR KIM: And you will have the chance to review it and I will be available anytime you want to talk to me, to discuss it. MS. RUGGLES: Great, well I guess the next step for us would be is to look at that report. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, Ms. Eoff, you had a question. MS. EOFF: Thank you. And thank you again for being here everybody, actually. This is a pretty serious discussion and as I recall, when—and I think for me it's not so much how you broke the news to whomever first or any of that, that day, Page 52 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 called the meeting. It was kind of the haste, the timeframe that it all happened in, because we spent, the previous Council spent a long time going over all of those, all of the possibilities. From the original presentation from the Department of Environmental Management that was going to authorize an enhanced mulching operation, to where our discussion changed. And as Mr. Chung stated, it wasn't just an initiative by Ms. Wille, but the entire Council was going in a direction where we wanted more than just enhanced mulching. We wanted to create compost. And we learned, spent a lot of time. I mean most of the year probably, or more with different kinds of presentations, learning different possibilities. And I think when the RFP finally went out we heard earlier from contractorI think they answered it in good faith, and I don't think anybody else did rise to the call. So we, you know, and I'm not privy to the negotiations on how that contract was hashed out and awarded. I don't know if it's good or bad financially, really. I mean, I'm not an expert, I'm going to read the report and learn more about why you've decided that it wouldn't be good financially for the County, but I'm still hoping that we don't have to really go backwards. I feel like we were going down a road that was in the right direction. I mean we thought we were abiding by not only the Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan but all of the County's goals for zero waste and to be on the cutting edge and to be actually the first County in the State that would be able to produce mulch in an in -vessel composting system, that was like very—that was a high point for the previous Council. So I guess maybe what we were feeling is that we put all that time and energy into learning about as much as we could as lay people kind of, and then within—you know, all of sudden within a day or two of some decision making it was kind of undone. So, for me it wasn't matter if you came to me or not, it was just kind of all what happened was actually just a fast switch, fast change of track and it's kind of hard for me to embrace like where we're going now. So, I asked this question earlier, I don't really expect an answer today because I think we're not really prepared, or you know, to discuss it. But we wanted to continue, I think, as a legislative body feeling that we were reaching a goal that we had worked towards. And hopefully if you're saying they've advised you that there is not a way to modify a contract because I guess there's ramifications, then maybe someone else would have answered an RFP if a contract is stated differently or an RFP is stated differently. So modifying a contract isn't something I would know can do, cannot do. I mean other people have stated that there are ways and there may be options like that. But rather than just and we don't know what your plan is really, like will we be able to have another kind of a composting facility, maybe a different location. You know, it's just sort of unclear now and it's hard I guess for us to know where we're going and because now we have to deal with another resolution coming up Page 53 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 later today, which actually is here because we're terminating this other contract. So, because we still haven't fully, I guess—or maybe I haven't, I don't know if I can speak for everybody—but embraced the fact that this particular current contract is being terminated, it's hard for me to now to support a resolution. I don't know but I feel like I need to because we have to have some kind of mulching contract in place. But I don't want to, you know lose our other options for something that I had completely supported, even bragged about, you know, interviewed with the media about, you know, on statewide public radio, et cetera. You know, a lot of us had been very proud of that accomplishment of the previous Council, to have worked from what the administration brought to us at first and been able to successfully change it into something that we felt was better for the County, and more progressive and everything else that's been stated today. So, I guess that's where I'm at and my five minutes is up. But I really wasn't asking for answers, I just wanted to state why it was a little uncomfortable that things happened rapidly. MAYOR KIM: I understand the discomfort and dissatisfaction of if you were involved, and obviously you were, of working on this for a long time, as others were. I have total appreciation of that, and I will say it again, you know, this is a huge contract, this is an important contract in regards to solid waste. We will pursue the goals established. The mulching contract, to make, as you saw in the paper, as seamless as possible. And we'll work hard on that. The contractor is behind me and I hope he hears me and I will say it again. You know, I've said it publicly, privately, there was no dissatisfaction with the mulching, and we want that to continue as seamless as possible. But we'll see how we can do that. In regards to the composting, the whole element of that, please read your contract and I think whether you accept it or not is not the issue. But I think you will understand why such a strong statement is made that this was not a good contract financially for the people on this land. It was a beautiful contract for the contractor. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. And I see Mr. Chung's light's on again. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. CHR. O'HARA: Okay. MR. CHUNG: And I don't want to belabor the point about, you know, the explanation. But I got to say I share Ms. Ruggles confusion as well. Because you know, if that's the case, if you just talk about cost and not being in the best interest of the public, then all of our contracts are subject to change at any given time. You want explanations, but we'll wait until we get Mr. Kurcharski's letter that might be the best thing. I didn't even know that Ms. Wille was sitting in Page 54 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 here. Have you been in here for a long time? Oh, but she made a good point, when she came to testify earlier, that we've got to look long term. Yeah, what's going to happen, what I'm worried about is, yeah, what might look like a really expensive contract now, if we choose to do it even two years from now or three years, the thing going double in price. Look atHarry, do you remember? I don't know, you were still Civil Defense Director at this time. A long time ago Mayor Yamashiro pitched $20 million for the closure of the Hilo Landfill. Put that in present date value, that going be big bread. You know, we haven't really made too many in roads in regards to this zero waste goal and this is one major component. All I ask, Mayor, is that you just think about it. Maybe you can talk to our Chairman again and you guys can put your heads together. Because I will say one more thing, too. You know, you mentioned about, and it's not a big deal, not letting us know, I'm not put off by it, butI was hurt, but it would have not have been a violation of Sunshine Law. It would have been a violation of Sunshine Law if we talked amongst ourselves. Serial communications. But for you to send out a blast e-mail or call us individually, no violation. And I'll tell you why. I mean, I'll give an example. The people's attorney sends us a letter, cc'ing each and every one of us. If he can do it, I don't see why the Mayor can't do it. I mean, he is after all, you know, the legal arm of the County. So there was nothing wrong with that. You could have given us a phone call and said, "Hey, this is my plan, what do you think?" And we could all maybe have individually put our heads together. But I think maybe if you could just talk to our Chair, because I think she knows where we're coming from on this. I would urge you to just think about this, don't be hard-headed Korean, I mean I can kind of—but anyway, I can make that joke cause I'm Korean, right? MAYOR KIM: You know when two hard headed Koreans talk; we don't go nowhere, do we? But on the serious note, I heard everything. I really have the confidence and I'll tell you, inside of me right now and for a while, I wanted to put everything on the table. I don't hide things. You know what was important to me, Mr. Chung? That is not your job to ruin the creditability of anybody regardless whether you agree or disagree with them. That was the principle that I told them we'll stick by. You think it's easy to sit here and not tell you point that you're going to find out shortly, as soon as you call individually, or executive session, or read the contract. Your example of two, three years from now, I guarantee you this, Mr. Chung. The price will still be high two or three years from now. You think I made a decision that we'll save 10 percent or 20 percent or 30 percent or 40 percent or 50 percent or 60 or 70 or 80 or 90 or 100 percent? MR. CHUNG: I would hope. Page 55 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MAYOR KIM: It's not, it's above. I'm saying just have confidence in what I'm saying of truth. This is not an easy decision. I said this was a bad contract for the people of this land. Go read it, that's all I'm asking. Call us in on executive session to question us. MR. CHUNG: That's what we're probably going to do. MAYOR KIM: And I ask you to do that. MR. CHUNG: But if I could, one—if I could call up Roy, please. And I wish Ms. Lee Loy were here but she had to go to that Kawailani community meeting. CHR. O'HARA: But she will be back. Okay. MR. CHUNG: You know, Roy a lot has been said about you know how the Panaewa Community Assn. wasn't kept in the loop on this, and we just found out today that you were working for PBR at that time under contract with the County of Hawaii to go ahead and do the EA, okay. But now of course you're on the other side. I don't know what kind of involvement you've had, you know, in the decision to cancel. But what happened over there? I'm not saying that you're at fault. I just want to know why weren't they involved in the MR. TAKEMOTO: PBR was called into the contract to start the contract; the timing was a little bit unusual because the—normally when you do an Environmental Assessment (EA), there's no commitment yet. So, that you can explore alternatives. We were called in when the contractor was already selected, the site was selected, and we were kind of figuring out, okay so how do we discuss alternatives. So the only alternative we could come up with the County was the West Hawaii site, which couldn't really meet the criteria because of the water constraint. So, typically in an EA process, you go through a pre -consultation then you do—the pre -consultation is a way you send a letter mainly to agencies saying that you're going to prepare this environmental assessment, do you have any issues or concerns that you want to be addressed in the draft EA. So at that time we didn't know if Panaewa Community had concerns or would have concerns. The response from the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands indicated that we should be consulting with the Panaewa Community and so we asked them who? So, we got names, contact information. So the draft EA was prepared and we made sure that we sent copies to the contact information provided by Department of Hawaiian Home Lands. The community, those contact people requested a community meeting. So we had a community meeting and that's where the contractors also, attended to explain Page 56 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 the process. At that meeting, because of the concerns raised, the community asked for more time to provide their comments. So we looked to Environmental Management and they said okay, to extend the comment period. And that's what we told the community, that evening, so we extended the comment period, and to and behold Y2c (Y2c Resources, LLC), for some reason that still I don't quite understand, told the County that they had no authority to extend the comment period. They later retracted it but that threw everything in confusion so we were never able to close out that comment period and do a final EA. So that's the way I left the project. In the mean time I became part of the County. So, the draft EA is incomplete. So my involvement when I became part of the County was to sit in on the meetings. And now because I was part of the project I know the community concerns, I know the environmental issues, but that's it. I didn't know anything about the financial impact. That was not part of the environmental analysis to analyze the financial feasibility. MR. CHUNG: No, no, no. I'm not trying you know to imply anything like that. Since it was brought up by one of the community members who was here and then since we found out that you were doing the EA, I figured might as well ask you, what created this connect. I'm not in any way implying that you were a cause, I just wanted to know what happened over there. MR. TAKEMOTO: Yeah, yeah. So, I'm trying to give you the background. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, yeah. MR. TAKEMOTO: Okay, so MR. CHUNG: It's coming clear right now. MR. TAKEMOTO: Yeah, okay so I was part of the meetings, in case there was any questions about the community's concerns or environmental impact, but come to find out that was not really the gist of how things actually worked out. It was more a matter of financial, which is beyond my expertise, which is why I basically sat at meetings and couldn't say anything. It was all DEM's on technical expertise at that time. MR. CHUNG: What if you guys had reapplied? MR. TAKEMOTO: Reapplied for? MR. CHUNG: Instead of extending the comment period. Page 57 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 MR. TAKEMOTO: That's what we that was the other alternative, to send in another—republish the draft EA to trigger another 30 -day period. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. MR. TAKEMOTO: And we were going down that road and the DEM Director at that time nixed it. MR. CHUNG: Oh, okay, okay. MR. TAKEMOTO: And so we didn't republish. We were ready to republish. MR. CHUNG: Okay, so that was part of the game plan then. MR. TAKEMOTO: Yeah. MR. CHUNG: That would have been great. Because my sense is and this is getting way off the subject already, but because location was not an issue right? It was cost and the whole solid waste management plan. But you know I kind of emphasize with the community association right because I think they felt just totally left out of the conversation. And so I see you know, a bit anger and betrayal not towards you, or towards to County of course. Yeah. And that's what fueled a lot of, you know, opposition, vocal opposition to that, this project but I just wanted to see what happened, you know, how is it that they felt that they were supposed to have an input on all of this and all of a sudden they were left out, and that makes a lot of sense. Thank you, Roy. I appreciate that. So, anyway but I think we should go into an executive session to talk to our Corp. Counsel about the legality of terminating. And the, you know, whether amendments can be made. I guess we can talk about that in the session too. Is that okay? CHR. O'HARA: Okay. MS. POINDEXTER: I was just going to say, do you want to go into Executive Session now or should we recess this until another date or a special meeting, and then until we get all the information so that we can do that because I don't think we should file this if this is an open discussion. Maybe recessing it. MR. CHUNG: That's a good idea. And see, you know, we're trying to accommodate Mayor Kim's schedule because he's very busy. But Mr. Kamelamela is always at the Kona meeting. Maybe we could have the executive session at the Kona meeting and maybe Mayor Kim can participate via, you know, teleconferencing so that explain specifically what his concerns were. I mean that makes perfect sense. Page 58 EMC -2 March 7, 2017 CHR. O'HARA: Can we do executive session via teleconferencing? MS. POINDEXTER: Yes. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. MS. POINDEXTER: So the thing is recessing or—cause I would prefer recessing so we don't have to go through all the testimony and stuff but so can Ido I have to make a motion to recess? No. The Chair can just call that, okay. CHR. O'HARA: I'm just, to be clear we're recessing on this action alone, correct? MR. HENRICKS: You have an ongoing meeting, and this is the last and only item on the agenda. So basically, what you'd be doing if you put the meeting in the recess until March, I'm not sure what day it is, we probably should find out. Then we're just stopping the meeting at this point and pretending it that it's just going to start right off at this point again on the 21st CHR. O'HARA: Okay. Then, wait I see one hand coming up, so I'll let Mr. Kanuha. MR. KANUHA: Thank you, and you know, I know the idea of recessing it but I think with this one it might be valuable to postpone it and if there was more comments that was that haven't been said that was talked about today that come out next time, I think it would be good to hear from the public about any additional information so just for MR. CHUNG: That's right. MS. POINDEXTER: So then, can I make a motion to postpone to the March 21st meeting? Motion to Postpone: Ms. Poindexter moved to postpone Comm. 116 to March 21, 2017. Seconded by Ms. Eoff. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, any discussion on the motion? Mr. Kanuha. MR. KANUHA: Thank you. I didn't say too much in the original statements because I think it'd beI wanted to get a lot of the information that we don't currently have before I make those comments. So just, it's nice to get it now and then we can talk about it later. But that's my reason for not saying anything right now. And I agree with the postponement. Page 59 EMC-2 March 7, 2017 CHR. O'HARA: Alright, is there any more discussion? Ms. Poindexter, do you have your light on. MS. POINDEXTER: No. CHR. O'HARA: No, okay. Then can I ask for the vote on that, all those in favor say "aye." Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Comm. 116 to March 21, 2017, to Postpone: was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara— 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Lee Loy— 1. Excused: None. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, order RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions. (There were none.) BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 6:08 p.m., Ms. Poindexter moved to adjourn MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Ms. David and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara— 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Lee Loy— 1. Excused: None. Approved: X4#4 Otl‘CPt- a-cf-/) Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair (Date) Environmental Management Committee EO/j a/vc Page 60