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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2017/07/17 2017-2018COMMITTEE ON FINANCE 151h Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii July 17, 2017 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at ORDER: 9:04 a.m. in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair Ms. Karen Eoff, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Member (came in later) Absent & Excused: Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Mary Begier: Comm. 347, in support. (representing the Hawaii Island Realtors Association) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 15.11: REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: JUNE 1 - 15, 2017 From Controller Kay Oshiro, dated June 20, 2017. FC -15 Vote on Comm. 15.11 Filed July 17, 2017 Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 15.11. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Ruggles, and Chair David - 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Richards - 2. Excused: None. Comm. 343: ANNUAL AUDIT PLAN FROM THE OFFICE OF THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR From Legislative Auditor Bonnie S. Nims, dated June 21, 2017, transmitting the Fiscal Year 2017-18 Audit Plan, pursuant to Hawaii County Charter Section 3-18(4)(2). Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 343. Seconded by Ms. Eoff. CHR. DAVID: Discussion, Council Members? I believe Ms. Nims may be in our Hilo office. Any discussion? MS. EOFF: Is Ms. Nim's there? CHR. DAVID: Hilo, is Ms. Nims in the audience? MS. O'HARA: Yes, she is. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. MS. O'HARA: Would you like to come forward? CHR. DAVID: If there's questions from the Council Members, yes I would like her to come forward; but if no one has questions, unless she wants to do a summary of her report, she can do that. MS. O'HARA: I would like to ask her to come forward. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. MS. O'HARA: And to do just that. CHR. DAVID: Alright. MS. O'HARA: Thank you. Page 2 FC -15 July 17, 2017 CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Ms. Nims, would you please come forward and identify yourself? Thank you. (Note: At this time, Legislative Auditor Bonnie S. Nims came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. NIMS: Good morning. Bonnie Nims, Legislative Auditor. CHR. DAVID: Good morning. MS. NIMS: Do you want a summary or do you want to just ask questions? MS. O'HARA: Just a short summary. MS. NIMS: Sure. As required by the Hawaii County Charter, we're required to do an Annual Audit Plan of the upcoming audits that we're hoping to do in the next fiscal year. Currently, we have two follow-ups scheduled as well as four performance audits, as well as we coordinate the contract of the Financial Statement and Single Audit. We're currently in the process of starting a couple of those, so we're well on track. And, I'm happy to answer any questions you have. MS. O'HARA: Chair, this is Eileen O'Hara. CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Ms. O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: I would like to askI know there was some news on this. We were talking about the complexities and how long some of these audits take. Do you feel you'll be able to get through the workload in this next year? MS. NIMS: Hard to tell. I think we can get through at least the majority, depending on if anything comes up, unexpected. I know there's been some discussions of potentially other questionable audits that may be added to this. But, as it stands right now, if everything rolls smoothly, we should get through most, if not all. MS. O'HARA: Okay. Does thatI know Council was moving on Mass Transit. MS. NIMS: Uh-hmm. MS. O'HARA: Does that include that? MS. NIMS: Yes, and it's on our audit plan. MS. O'HARA: Well, good. That's all the questions I had. Page 3 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MS. NIMS: Okay. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Anyone else have questions? Mr. Kanuha. MR. KANUHA: Thank you. Good morning, Bonnie. MS. NIMS: Good morning. MR. KANUHA: Just as aI just had a question about—you said there could be some other questionable items that could be added to this audit. So, this is just a plan. Obviously, it's just a plan of what you see throughout the 2017-2018. So it is possible that you could add or subtract these planned audits? MS. NIMS: Definitely. If something comes up that we deem more important or more sensitive, we're happy—it's just a plan, it's not set -in -stone. And so we are happy to alter it, if something has come up. MR. KANUHA: Okay, thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kanuha. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Bonnie. MS. NIMS: Good morning. MS. LEE LOY: If I understand correctly, I just wanted to understand the common thread. From what I can see, it's about accountability, or finances, or managing some of our expenses. Is that an accurate assessment of the audits that are to be performed? MS. NIMS: Currently, yes. Yeah, definitely transparency, accountability of public dollars. MS. LEE LOY: Follow-up question. I understand that there are two types of audits that are done. One, are usually fiscal in nature. Has your office ever done one as it relates to personnel? And when I ask that question, just to insure that we have the right or appropriate people in the various agencies kind of working efficiently. Has the department done something like that? MS. NIMS: You're asking, like is the job appropriate for the job description, or appropriate for the job title description? MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, but more to the extent that position fits the job description but is being run efficiently. Page 4 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MS. LEE LOY: No, we have not looked at anything like that yet. When we look at a process, we may look at the process and if it's efficient but not necessarily the job description. But that's a good one to consider in future years. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Alright, thank you. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? Questions? In Hilo, if you could speak up if you have questions; if not, I will take it that no one else has any questions. Thank you, Ms. Nims. I just have one comment, and that is just a clarification. That although one report was completed, you do have two more in the works that will be completed shortly? MS. LEE LOY: Correct. I have one that should be issued in the next two or three weeks, hopefully, and another that will probably be in the next four to six weeks. CHR. DAVID: I see, thank you. Thank you very much, and that's all the questions that I have at this time. Council Members, all those in favor of filing Communication 343 please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 343: The motion to close file on Comm. 343 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Ruggles, and Chair David - 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Richards - 2. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much, Ms. Nims. MS. NIMS: Thank you. CHR. DAVID: You're welcome. And before we go to Communication 347 as well as 348, I would like to ask Council Member O'Hara; I had a request from the Finance Department, Real Property Tax, should take 348 first, and I was wanting to know what your thoughts on that? The department is requesting to take 348 out of order. MS. O'HARA: We can, if that's the desire of the Chair. Actually, I was going to just introduce Communication 347 and lay it on the table so that we could then bring up Communication 348. Page 5 FC -15 July 17, 2017 CHR. DAVID: Okay. Since it's your intention to lay it on the table, would you mind then if we just move forward with 348 then, and save one step? MS. O'HARA: Okay, well then I will propose the same for that because we ne need to consider these side-by-side. CHR. DAVID: So after discussion, you would request that it be laid on the table. You will make a request to lay on the table while we discuss 347, right? MS. O'HARA: Correct. CHR. DAVID: Okay. Okay, that's fine. If that's okay with all the members, then we'll proceed with 348. Mr. Clerk? Change of Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the of Business: following item was taken out of order: Comm. 348: REQUESTS DISCUSSION REGARDING THE COUNCIL'S PARTICIPATION IN A REAL PROPERTY TAX REVIEW WORKING GROUP OF THE REAL PROPERTY TAX DIVISION From Council Member Eileen O'Hara, dated June 28, 2017. Motion to Close File: Ms. O'Hara moved to close file on Comm. 348. Seconded by Ms. Eoff. CHR. DAVID: Ms. O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: Okay, the genesis of this communication came from an email I believe we all received, from the Finance Director, who is here today with the Deputy Director. This is about their effort to put together an internal working group for the Real Property Tax review, and that I won't say it's strictly internal because I think their intent is to also include public members. The issue came up when we were discussing budget and the need to do a review of our tax classes and tax rates. We've discussed it publicly, as a Council, for a few months here, as we debated our budget for this fiscal year. This is a policy concern that I think the Council is very intent on making some forward movement on. Some history here. There was an ad hoc formed at the Council in 2012 as well as an audit report on the Real Property Tax, that resulted in recommendations to both the Legislature and to the administration in terms of things that needed to get done. That was 2012, and nothing has been moved on by either the Council or the administration since then, so I wanted to consider that as a starting point in whatever we do. But the problem that we have with the effort put forth by the administration, is we are limited as a Council in its participation. No more than Page 6 FC -15 July 17, 2017 two Council Members can participate in that type of public meeting due to Sunshine Law, and as a result, none of us were physically invited into this committee. So, that is a bit problematic. It seems like we are outside and only able to make recommendations. Since setting policy is the role of the County Council in County government, I'm not sure we wanted to step back that far. So I am going to move to lay this on the table and bring in, and ask the Chair if she would have the Clerk read in Communication 347. So, that's my motion to lay this on the table and ask the Chair to read in Communication 347. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. At what point—before you do that motion, at what point would you like the administration to weigh in? MS. O'HARA: They can come up now, or I can make the motion and read in 347 and they can come up then. It doesn't really matter. CHR. DAVID: Okay. Let me hear from Ms. Lee Loy before you make that motion, please. MS. O'HARA: Okay. CHR. DAVID: Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. I completely understand where you're going. But as a matter of context, I would like to hear from the administration so that we can put everything on the table before we move into you communication. I think it's just a little bit more fair and appropriate for everybody to have the conversation about what Communication 348 does and what the administration's intentions are, and then hear your communication, and then as a body decide, you know, what's the best fit and how to move forward, taking into everybody's considerations. That's where I would like to go, Chair, is to hear from the administration and understand what they're proposing in their communication. CHR. DAVID: Thank you for that. I think that's an excellent suggestion. Anyone else wanting to weigh in to that suggestion? Is that—I think that's a great suggestion. Ms. O'Hara, do you? MS. O'HARA: I agree. CHR. DAVID: Okay. MS. O'HARA: Can the deputy and director come on up? CHR. DAVID: Yes. I believe Ms. Sako and also Mr. Tomei, they're in Hilo. Page 7 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MS. O'HARA: They're here. CHR. DAVID: Okay, great. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Collins Tomei and Deputy Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Welcome, Director and Deputy Director. Please identify yourself, and go ahead as soon as you're ready. MR. TOMEL Collins Tomei, Director of Finance. Thank you. Good morning. Okay, thank you for hearing 347. The gist of this was basicallyI sent out an email, basically notifying all Council Members that we are in the process of formulating a real property tax review working group, and it's an informal process. Many considerations were taken when this proposal was done. But I do want to say that the Real Property Tax Division knew about the 2012 report. Somewhere along the line, I guess the, right after the budget was established, the Mayor asked us to basically start thinking about formulating a working group for the Real Property Tax Review. And, Deanna, chime in anytime. One of the things that did come up was that the Real Property Tax leadership were already thinking about some changes that they wanted to implement. So they were formulating ideas, and even an agenda to that matter. My email, and I've got to take—I'll take responsibility for that one. But I did not openly request that the Council Members be on the committee. I should have done that. But again, too, taking into consideration the Sunshine Law, we also understand that no more than two people can be seated, seated in the meeting, or for that matter, or for the board. I mean, not the board but for the review group. One suggestion, was that maybe a rotational seating process be implemented. Again, I think this group will have to decide how you go about that. That's basically it. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Tomei. MS. SAKO: Deanna Sako, Deputy Director of Finance. I think when other Real Property Tax bills have come up over the years, we've talked about getting back to having our internal committee that we had once before, just to try and stay on top of things, especially the complaints or different things we hear from the public. We do know kind of what those areas are. One of the other hard parts, is Council Members do change sometimes and it's like a two-year term. So we want this to be on an ongoing thing, kind of forever. Page 8 FC -15 July 17, 2017 But initially, when Lisa and I had discussed it, each Council Member has certain strengths in different areas. We know, like Mr. Richards has experience in ag or different things like that. Trying to have it be rotating Council Members, so that whatever the topic is, that we get the right people. Granted, that's not easy. There's lots of people that have experience in different areas. So we're kind of flexible, on whether we have rotating or if you'd rather have permanent members. But, we just want to keep the conversations going. Because what got really hard, is when there's one Council Member who drives it, not this particular Council, then it's very difficult on staff trying to deal with, and implement, and trying to work with the public on legislation. We're trying to find a win-win for everybody. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Sako. MR. TOMEL Can I make one more comment? CHR. DAVID: Yes, Mr. Tomei. MR. TOMEL Okay, sorry. Collins Tomei, Director of Finance. The person who should actually be seated here is Lisa Miura. She's with the Department of Real Property Tax. She's unable to attend because she's on vacation right now. We're trying to do what's best for the County, have all people, all representatives, seated at the table too. There are private individuals, from the real estate area, to represent property management, that kind of thing. So, we're taking a lot of things into consideration. At the same time, we do want to make sure that everyone has some kind of say. Even if you cannot be seated, let's say together, in one place, making sure that we at least hear from you in terms of maybe emails, your concerns. I know hard. I know it's very hard. But that was the initial invite, though. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Tomei. Council Members, any questions? Okay, Ms. Eoff. MS. EOFF: Thank you. Good morning, Director and Deputy Director. Question, I know we can't discuss the three, four, seven, just yet, but in your proposal, were you going to include members of the public as well? MR. TOMEL Yes. The idea was to have, let's call it the "representatives," from the real estate field, make their recommendations and give thought to the process. There wasn't—this working group is an informal working group. It's not meant to be a public forum. But definitely, maybe through your constituents, you can provide those ideas or concerns. Page 9 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MS. SAKO: Hi. It's Deanna Sako, Deputy Director of Financesorry, Karen. So part of the idea, was that we would have different—members of the public, that maybe would be like kind of permanent and well-rounded people on the committee, but then having public meetings or gathering input and data from various people. Especially when we get to the area on ag, they might not want to be on every single topic. But definitely, there's lots of different forces within the community that want to be represented, so making sure we do have enough meetings to gather sufficient input. MS. EOFF: And you mentioned that this would be an ongoing working group, but would you have a goal of having a proposal to the Council prior to the next budget cycle for some reform? MS. SAKO: Yes, it may not be an entire package, but there's some areas we know, where one looked at already that needs to be cleaned up, will probably come in pieces prior to the next budget cycle. MS. EOFF: Well, I applaud you for following through on something that was mentioned, I think, back in June or maybe even before that. I'm not sure. We'll have to get to the other communication, too, to really identify differences, or pros and cons of each of the two proposals, but I don't see them to be that much different from each other. I would just like to understand both of them so that we can move forward on the one that would be the most productive, without being too unwieldy. I can see how this could get difficult with all this input that you may need to have. But, I'm glad we're thinking about it. I'm glad we're going to discuss both of these proposals. I'm wondering, also, maybe when we get to the next one, though, how many Council Members are actually wanting to sit consistently on a board like this, given that we have a lot of other responsibilities and duties as well? Maybe two, or two at a time is fine. But, I'd just like to discuss it. Thank you for the feedback so far. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eoff Council Members? Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I do agree with Ms. Eoff I do like both proposals, and they actually seem to be trying to get to the same goal, and if somehow we could actually marry the two ideas without being handcuffed too much. I do have a question, and I'm not sure if this is actually for Mr. Kamelamela. Because it appears to me that we may run into Sunshine Law issues with the proposal, under Communication 348. So, Mr. Kamelamela, if you don't mind? (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 10 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MR. KAMELAMELA: Chair and members of the committee, Joseph Kamelamela. Actually, yeah, there might be a Sunshine Law, but I think it's going to be more basic. What Mr. Tomei had kind of let people know is that they're forming a committee, something internal. So, the way that I read the Charter, and the County Council—it's up to Mr. Tomei as how to form the committee. To also include a Council Member, that part, I really don't think this Council has any say. The reason why I say that, because I looked at the chapter dealing with real property tax, and also the director has certain duties and responsibilities. Part of it is to do legislation, and he can do what he feels is necessary to get there. It doesn't require him to set up a working group that involves actual Council Members because he's more concerned about how to administer his own department. So, that's the comment that I have. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kamelamela. So my question is, if two or more people participate in the working group that Mr. Tomei, if he were to set that up, would we be in violation of the Sunshine Law? MR. KAMELAMELA: Well, I think there's a greater chance of that happening than the way of what Mr. Tomei is saying because this Council also has the option of forming its own ad hoc committee to do that. Because in the end, I think, having these two different groups would actually maybe create more ideas. So, one of the issues that I see, if you're trying to have a Council Member in the working group, there are differences on how the two separate branch of government look at certain issues, so I'm afraid that it may be too difficult after awhile to try to coordinate things and then try to get things moving. MS. LEE LOY: Follow-up to that. There was a proposal that certain Council Members who had certain strengths be at the administration's working group, and then other Council Members who had other strengths could participate when that specific topic came up during the working group. If that were to occur, would we be running close to a serial communication as far as more Council Members participating, and then would we be getting close to that violation of that Sunshine Law again? MR. KAMELAMELA: We will get really, not close, I think that we would cross the line. So, I think the best solution to that is have the communication come directly from the Council Member to the working group, and then let the working group serve as a clearing house for all the ideas that the Council Members have. That way you would avoid the situation, Council Member Lee Loy, that you foresee. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Kamelamela. I do have one follow-up question for Ms. Sako. Page 11 FC -15 July 17, 2017 Back in 2012, when this proposal came up, I understand there was a working group, and I think Ms. Crawford started that. Would you mind sharing how that particular group worked back then, if you know? And if you don't know, that's fine. MS. SAKO: I think many years ago we had a working group, where there was community, and Council, and Finance people, and in that case, shared ideas. And then as different proposals were ready, if they kind of stood independently, because we know some—there might be several that kind of coincide or what not, were presented to the Council. Then in 2012, there was more of a working group type of thing. And then they met and tried to prioritize the findings from the IAAO (International Association of Assessing Officers) audit, and we do want to go back and focus on those items again. And then the most recent one, which I want to say it was the ad hoc committee, because there were two separate ones with different Council Members. That one was a little more confusing. The way it was initially presented, it was going to be administration, and Council, and public. There got to be a problem with having administration on it. I can't remember all the details, but unfortunately, then the Finance Department just becomes a resource and has no say in it either. So, we're trying to find the one where, I guess, everybody can have input, and work together, and get things to Council as rapidly as possible. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. I yield at this time, Chair. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Council Members in Hilo, do you folks have any questions before I make a comment? Or here, for that matter? No? Okay. I'm sorry, Mr. Kamelamela, before we move on to the next communication, could you come back? I just have one question. (Note: At this time, Corporation Council Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. DAVID: Thank you. I know we understand very well the Sunshine Law issue and how to participate meaningfully in this important task force or working group. What is your—this is a crazy idea; if we form a task force, I mean if we form an ad hoc committee, which allows for Council Members to discuss certain issues, would the ad hoc committee, as a body, be able to be participate in the administration's working group? Given the Sunshine Law issues is what I'm trying to see. Whether the focus of an ad hoc committee would be to address or give suggestions for the working group, could they, as a body, attend like a meeting of the administration's working group? I knowI'm sorry to ask you that, but just— MR. KAMELAMELA: Not as a body, no, because there's four members. Page 12 FC -15 July 17, 2017 CHR. DAVID: But they formed as an ad hoc committee so that they can discuss issues. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, but they can talk about it among themselves. CHR. DAVID: They can't participate? MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, not as a body. CHR. DAVID: Okay, that was—okay. Alright, that was a question, I think, that's kind of—in trying to not avoid the Sunshine Law, but try to find a method of at least more than two people being able to meaningfully engage in discussions, which I think is very important for this Council as a body also. So, I'm just looking at the ad hoc committee as being something that could allow us to do that and not be dinged for Sunshine. So, Ms. Eoff? MR. KAMELAMELA: When they all (inaudible) depending on what the working group comes up with. It's just to communicate whatever ideas they had to have for the ad hoc committee. CHR. DAVID: I mean if the ad hoc committee was specifically formed to give input to—okay, I'm tip -toeing, but MR. KAMELAMELA: Sounds like a stretch to me. CHR. DAVID: Ms. Eoff has a follow-up. MS. EOFF: Yes, as a follow-up. Because if the ad hoc committee formed and they had a report with recommendations, could those recommendations then be shared with the administration's working group? MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, I think that can happen because that's a report. MS. EOFF: So that might be one way to meld the two groups, where ideas could be MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, and then the opposite is true too, where the group can provide a report to the ad hoc committee. MS. EOFF: Okay. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eoff Okay, so you can see this—instead ofI'm just trying to figure out whether we have to make a choice here. Or can we have two groups going along the same way, on the same path? Page 13 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MR. KAMELAMELA: So that I understand the question correctly, on the County Council side you will make the decision as to whether to form the ad hoc committee. With respect to Mr. Tomei's group, that's up to him on the formulation. CHR. DAVID: Right. MR. KAMELAMELA: So I cannot see the Council really getting involved in how this work group is set up, whether to have Council Members or not. I don't think there's any authority on the County Council to do that. But the ad hoc committee (inaudible). CHR. DAVID: Right. MS. O'HARA: Chair? MR. KAMELAMELA: And with respect to what Mr. Collins Tomei wanted, you know, the County Council can recommend who from the public gets into that group, because that's what he's asking. CHR. DAVID: Okay. Thank you. Was that Ms. O'Hara? Point of Order: MS. O'HARA: Yes, Chair. I was just raising a point of order. We seem to be moving into discussion of Communication 347, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't at this point move to lay 348 on the table and bring the other one up for discussion. CHR. DAVID: Okay, well that was just my final question before we—you are correct, we're moving in a different area. So can you please make the motion to table? MS. O'HARA: Not to table, but to lay on the table Communication 348. That's my motion. CHR. DAVID: Yeah, that's okay. Vote on Motion to Table: Ms. O'Hara moved to table Comm. 348. Seconded by (Approved) Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Ruggles, and Chair David - 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Richards - 2. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, please, Communication 347. Page 14 FC -15 July 17, 2017 Return to Order of The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business. Business: Comm. 347 Motion to Close File: REQUESTS DISCUSSION REGARDING THE FORMATION OF A REAL PROPERTY TAX AD HOC COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER CHANGES TO CURRENT REAL PROPERTY TAX POLICIES, PRACTICES, AND PROCEDURES From Council Member Eileen O'Hara, dated June 28, 2017. Ms. O'Hara moved to close file on Comm. 347. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. DAVID: Ms. O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: Thank you, Chair. Okay, so as we advance in this discussion, I just want to say I'm really, really happy that we're all wanting to do something about the Real Property Tax Code, and the fact that Finance is being proactive is wonderful. I'm sorry Lisa isn't here because I would look forward to working with her. She's very brilliant and understands a lot of the issues. We also want to involve the public, and so that's a whole other issue. It sounds to me like the internal working group or task force that Finance Director is proposing would have communication with the public. But it would be structured in a way that would be a, more or less, like a standing working group, something that would exist at the County, and there's a need for it to remain in existence. The ad hoc committee, proposed under Communication 347, is not intended to be forever, but I could see how it could work in tandem with the internal working group. As expressed by Mr. Kamelamela, reports can go back and forth. And instead of trying to have each individual Council Member interact in their own way with the internal working group, maybe it would be better that the internal working group kind of interacts with the ad hoc committee, or we form an ad hoc committee and the internal working group interacts with that committee. And then when proposals need to come before Council, we're better prepared for that. That's just an idea I see coming out of the discussion that we've had already. The other question I have is, how many Council Members are willing to commit to serving on this ad hoc? I understand we're short a couple members, with Ms. Poindexter not here and Mr. Richards not here. But I would like to see if there's an expression of interest by enough Council Members to make it worthwhile to form an ad hoc committee. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Anyone else? Council Members? Ms. Ruggles. Page 15 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. Thank you, Ms. O'Hara, for bringing this up. This is really important. And I also really appreciate Real Property Tax and Finance for making a move on this. I would be interested in being in the ad hoc, to answer Ms. O'Hara's question. I also have a question for Mr. Kamelamela, if that's okay? So based on the answer that you gave Ms. David, I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly; if we form an ad hoc committee of four members, the public and the administration cannot participate in our meetings? MR. KAMELAMELA: Joseph Kamelamela, Corp. Counsel. Okay, the word "participation," you know, might be kind of broad. But the ad hoc committee wouldn't be able to go to the working group. The kind of participation that can occur could be the ad hoc committee, you know, sharing of reports and ideas. And then, the public will be participating with the working group, from what I understand, because there are individuals that Director Tomei wants, who wouldn't be part of a government. It would be somebody in the private sector. Because I think he mentioned people in real estate as being athey're—and then if other people have other ideas, that who might be good from the public. MS. RUGGLES: So what I mean by participate, is attend. So I understand that we cannot attend their working group meetings? MR. KAMELAMELA: Right. MS. RUGGLES: We can only communicate through reports. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yes. MS. RUGGLES: If we were to have our own ad hoc committee, just in the matter of legal policy of what we're establishing here, just so I understand, if we were to just establish an ad hoc committee for anything, the administration and the public could not come and attend our meetings? MR. KAMELAMELA: From what I understand, about the ad hoc committee, it's set up for a specific purpose. So the ad hoc committee members would kind of decide how it's going to go around with its own business. Whether the public participates or not, I think it's going to be—and the level of participation, it's going to be dependent on how this ad hoc committee is formed, at this level. I don't know if the County Clerk has any other opinion about the ad hoc committee. MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman? CHR. DAVID: Yes, Mr. Chung? MR. CHUNG: Yeah. Page 16 FC -15 July 17, 2017 CHR. DAVID: Wait, hang on a second. MS. RUGGLES: I yield. CHR. DAVID: Ms. Ruggles, are you done? MS. RUGGLES: Yes, I am. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Alright you can go ahead, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I'm just going to give you my thoughts on this thing. I don't have really any specific suggestions as to how this can work out. My initial thoughts, when I saw all of this, was why don't we just put everything together because it's sort of inefficient to have two separate bodies going their own separate ways? But then the more that I think about it, you know, what Joe said, what Mr. Kamelamela made some—what he said made some sense, the administration is free to do whatever they want and they don't have to invite us. But at the same time, let's look at the ad hoc committee set up and why the Councils in the past have used or utilized that arrangement. They did it so that they didn't have to, I guess, do all of the formalities of a Council meeting, allow people to have public testimony at the beginning or at the end. I think even to serve notice. I'm not a big fan of ad hoc committees, quite frankly, as it relates to the County Council, and for several reasons. But the most important reason why I'm not a big fan of it, is if I'm not on the ad hoc committee, I'm almost abdicating my responsibilities to a group of four, a minority group of the Council, or at least, in some sense deferring to that group, and I'm not really, really fond of that idea. I know we utilize it for the nonprofits. I'm not a big fan of that either, but I kind of go along with the flow on that. But, I think, and I suggested it in the past. And Ms. Eoff, when she was the Finance Chairman, was trying her best to implement something, but we all saw how daunting a task it was. But I think if we have all of the Council Members sitting in a working group, agendize the meeting, allow the public to come in but we invite only a certain amount of members of the public to be part of that working group. If some members can't make it on a certain date, because it's going to be very difficult, then we could send staff there to just report. But as long as we have all the Council Members sharing their thoughts, because if not, it's going to be very, very difficult. What's going to happen—look at what happened when we had the ad hoc committee before, it was comprised of two people, Margaret Wille and Fresh Onishi. That was in 2012. That was before the majority of us were here. So, Deanna made a good point. We come and go, and ideas consequently come and go. But if we have everyone sitting on this committee, I think we have a greater chance of success; sharing thoughts, setting goals, and moving forward Page 17 FC -15 July 17, 2017 from there. I really want to credit Ms. O'Hara for her efforts. But maybe we're kind of stuck on this ad hoc committee idea, when actually we should be thinking more broadly. These are just my initial thoughts now. I'm hoping though, like as Ms. Lee Loy said earlier, we can meld these two efforts together; because after all, the Council is the policy-making body of the County. So no matter what the administration comes up with, we don't have to follow it if we don't like it. Something better has to be developed here. For example, if the administration comes up with their own task force, then I think the only way that this will be we can make it work, is if they periodically come back to the Council to report what they've been doing, and what their findings are, and what their directions are. But short of that, they're going to be off on their own with no assurances that we're going to be supporting whatever they come up with because their idea of Real Property Tax reform and our ideas might be totally different. So, there has to be some kind of interfacing between the two bodies; if not, we're doomed to failure. So anyway, I just wanted to make those points. Those are only thoughts, but I just wanted to share them with all you of you. Thank you, CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Those were very good thoughts. Ms. Eoff and then Ms. Lee Loy. MS. EOFF: Thank you, Mr. Chung. I kind ofI'm visualizing how that could work, your proposal to keep the Council as a whole but having—maybe we could request periodic reports from the administration's working group to, say the Finance Committee, so we would keep track of where their task force is going, in the way of changes to the tax code. That way, like you said, the public could also be informed and give testimony to the Council. We can enter into a discussion, if the meeting is noticed like a regular committee meeting, and then that way we have dialog or input back to the administration's task force. I think that's what— MR. CHUNG: May I answer that? MS. EOFF: Yes. CHR. DAVID: Yes, you may. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, and I agree. Yeah that'sI didn't come with a suggestion or an arrangement, but it has to be something like that, where we have a back and forth. It's a very cumbersome arrangement, but that's just the nature of the beast, right? But we have to have this back and forth with the administration in order for us to have something meaningful. Even if it takes a Page 18 FC -15 July 17, 2017 long time, you know, we have to put forth that effort. So, yes, you are correct, Ms. Eoff That my very amorphous way, that's what I'm kind of envisioning. MS. EOFF: The reason, I see that as being more productive or maybe the most productive way to do it is because, as I think Ms. O'Hara mentioned, the Real Property Tax Division, Ms. Miura and Mr. Sitko who's here today, they've been thinking and listening to us over the years and months, and they have indicated a strong, not desire, but an impetus to make these changes that may be necessary for our County. I think they have the most informed background, at this point. They are still willing to take in input from, and administration had mentioned input, from community members and experts in their fields, other fields. So I believe that if they're committed to that—and we could also get a commitment to make regular reports to the Finance Committee and open up this dialog to all of us, then maybe that would be a way to get a significant change made in a shorter period of time. MS. SAKO: Not to interrupt, but this is Deanna Sako, Deputy Director of Finance. And you know, my fault, I apologize, Lisa did have that in her comments and I forgot to mention that early on. But we are very willing to come back periodically to report to Council because it does have to be a working effort, together, a team effort. MS. EOFF: Oh okay. Thank you. I'll yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eoff Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I think to immediately answer the question proposed Ms. O'Hara, is who wants on? I want on. I want on the working group, I want on the ad hoc, I want in. That's what I want. Now however this unfolds, I think that's where the devil is in the details. I've listened really carefully to all of my colleagues, and I applaud every single one of them, because clearly this has become an area that we all know we need to work hard on. So the questions I have, that I just want to put out there is, as we move forward and however we choose to move forward, the question that came to mind was, what is the scope of the investigation, whether it be with the working group or with the ad hoc committee? And the other question I have isor maybe offer to the working group or the ad hoc committee, who are the, these community individuals, who are the stakeholders at the table? I know Mr. Tomei mentioned members of the Realtors Association, and then I know Mr. Richards' name came up because of his background in agriculture. I think all of those things are really good. Page 19 FC -15 July 17, 2017 But I would also like to offer, as maybe, a qualifier; that we have someone who's maybe 40 or younger on this working group or on this ad hoc committee; because like Mr. Chung said and Ms. Sako said, we're going to come and go. But we're going to need somebody to continue this conversation as it evolves. So that's something I'd also like to lay on the table for consideration, that somebody for the working group or the ad hoc committee be maybe 40 years or younger. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Ms. O'Hara, did you want to speak? MS. O'HARA: Yeah, I did have a few comments here, and actually questions, for Deanna and Collins. CHR. DAVID: Go ahead. MS. O'HARA: I know you started with the development of this working group. Do you have a set scope? Do you have a timeline? How would it work to be able to do reports, back and forth either to the full Council or to an ad hoc if the Council chooses to go that direction? How often would those reports be able to surface and be delivered to either the ad hoc or the Council? MR. TOMEL Collins Tomei, Department of Finance. The best person to answer that question would have been Lisa, had she been here; but again, too, I apologize for that. But I think she was at the point where she was already starting to formulate that agenda, rules, and how the meeting and how the meeting was going to be run. Again, a lot of thought was placed into even having the meetings and how the meetings would be run. But the one thing that I do want to stress was that she was very concerned about having Council Members be seated, yeah, during that period of time. I guess, maybe this is a question that Joe has to answer; if there was an ad hoc committee, can members of that ad hoc committee also be participants on a rotational basis? MS. O'HARA: I do believe that Mr. Kamelamela already answered that question. MR. TOMEL Okay. MS. O'HARA: And that would be a serial violation of the Sunshine Law, as I understood. MR. TOMEL Okay. MS. O'HARA: Yeah, I believe. Page 20 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MR. TOMEL Again, we do want the input, that process of emailing back and forth, I guess. We can start with something, but that was just to start off the process, your concerns, and then that way we can develop an agenda that was meaningful for the discussion at hand. MS. O'HARA: Well, thank you for that response. And I appreciate what Mr. Chung brought in to the discussion, about instead of interacting with an ad hoc, which we can have up to four members of Council on an ad hoc committee, to have that interaction be only with the full Council. Personally, I think ifI'm trying to find an efficient way to make this work. I don't want to have to ask members of the public to serve on two separate committees, members of our administrative staff to serve on two separate committees. That's just not efficient. So if we could consider, and I actually think this might be the most operative way to do it, form an ad hoc committee that receives reports from your committee. Every time you have a meeting we receive report, and we can come back with suggestions. We can agendize that at Finance Committee, when it's necessary to bring the full Council in on any decision, about directions that we're traveling for different ideas for modifications to the tax classes or code. Then the ad hoc would be that committee to decide to bring it to full Council or not. So that we're not spending a lot of time at Council, deliberating unnecessarily, I guess, or whatever, deliberating, perhaps, manini issues versus larger issues of concern. So that's a way that we might channel this and prove more efficient that way. I know, myself, I would like to be involved if we do an ad hoc, and we've gotten requests from two other Council Members. Since Mr. Richards is not here, he's prone to be nominated, regardless. No, I'm just kidding. But he is our resident, somewhat expert on agriculture and agricultural land use. I would also like to see, aside from professional realtors and property managers, I'd like to see some legal expertise on your working group. I do have a suggestion for that, just because it's nice to have somebody that has the legal expertise, also, perhaps experience at the County, so that would help. Understanding what is doable, because we all have great ideas, from time to time, but some of them simply aren't implementable. That knowledge rests more with you guys in terms of what will work and what can be made to work. And then, of course, there's budget considerations. If we have to buy new hardware, software, or that kind of stuff, that's a Council decision ultimately, in terms of the budget. But all of those things have to work in this mix. So I would like to see a wide representation on your working group, if that's the way this proceeds, of a good cross-section of professionals. And then, perhaps have an ad hoc that monitors the work that you guys are doing and brings to Council, as necessary, reports that need to be considered by the full Council. That's just an idea I'm putting out there. Page 21 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MS. SAKO: And I think—Deanna Sako, Deputy Director of Finance. But that is what we had in mind. We're trying to find a wide range of people. We've thrown a lot of names out there. We haven't focused on anyone. I believe we asked the Council for input, as well, on providing those names. But also, we had talked about reporting as needed or necessary. Because sometimes when you're investigating things, not a whole lot happens between two meetings, but then all of a sudden a lot happens. But, at least quarterly. Then, when things are like, okay now we're really getting into it. Because sometimes there's a lot of time spent finding out and gathering data and information. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: Alright. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to speak? Okay, I don't see—go ahead, Ms. Eoff MS. EOFF: Mr. Clerk, may I ask you a question. So given the scenario that Ms. O'Hara just sort of described, where an ad hoc committee would also report back to the Council periodically, would that be allowable? I'm not sure how in the past, my recollection is that an ad hoc committee provides one report to the Council prior to it dissolving. Or, is it possible to bring reports at different times? Prior to the end report or—how does it work with an ad hoc committee? MR. HENRICKS: It's more typical what you first described. It's a finite process. Establish a detailed scope of investigation, what is the purpose and point. At a committee, does its work, presents its findings. We sit on it for a meeting to allow for public consumption, and then the Council essentially comes back—or committee, and says, "Okay, here's what we have," and then the committee accepts them. I recall, in the previous term, where we had some periodic reports. I believe there was an ad hoc committee, about Puna Road Connectivity. That we had some periodic reports, in particular, for members of the public. So, it has happened. It's not that restrictive in the rules where it couldn't happen. But I think the better point to what you all are trying to discuss right now is the most efficient way to work, kind of work with the administration, to be a part of the policy making process, when it comes to crafting revisions to the Real Property Tax Code. But to answer you your question, it has happened, but it is not the norm. It is more the norm what you first stated, one time report and acceptance. Page 22 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MS. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Yes, I thinkI'm not objecting to an ad hoc committee. I can see that could also be productive and that it could, maybe within a short period of time, provide some input to the administration's working group. But as far as a long-term, maybe that would be more appropriate for the administration's working group. So I guess, either way, I guess we'll hear more discussion. But either way, if we don't form an ad hoc and we just participate in whatever way we can with the administration, and encourage reports back to the full Council, I feel that would also invoke a lot of participation by all of us and the public. So, I guess Ms. O'Hara has her thoughts and I guess we'll continue to support her. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eoff. Anyone else before we decide what to do or before I say something? Ms. O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: There are, as Mr. Chung's said, many, many ways to put this together. Another way that we could consider, is to start with a Council -driven ad hoc committee, and put a timeline on that of six months or nine months, at least until the next budget cycle, and then the internal working group could continue on from there, which would be members of the administration, the public, et cetera. That would be another model that might work. So there are so many ways that we could do this, but I hope we can find a more efficient way than trying to go parallel tracks. I do want to work closely with the administration on this, because whatever we decide has to be something that we can implement at the County level. I yield. MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman? CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, just a few more brief thoughts or comments. I think why having an ad hoc committee of less than the full Council will not work. Well, all we need to do is look no further than what we experienced in the past with the other ad hoc committee, which was of course was comprised of only two people. They came up with a product, brought it to the Council, and of course I wasn't even there when they had that ad hoc committee, and we're expected to digest all of this material without knowing the background to see how it was actually developed. It becomes very difficult. It might have been a very good product that they came up with, Ms. Wille and Fresh and their working committee, or ad hoc committee, for all I know, but it was just too difficult for us to examine without knowing how it came about. So, I think it's very important that we're all involved every step of the way. Even if it means we've got to miss a few meetings here and there, we can have staff report to us and say—tell us what's going on. I think that's the only way Page 23 FC -15 July 17, 2017 it's going to work. I think, as I stated earlier, the administration, if they want their proposal to work, they're going to have to come up and give us periodic reports on what's going on, if not, we're not going to be able to digest that either. Because I think we've all said it at least one time or another, real property taxation, the Real Property Tax Code is probably the most complex body of law that the County has, and unless we really have a good idea, a firm grasp, as to what all the principles are in any proposal, it will not work. Thanks. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. With that said, I think if no one else wants to speak, I will make a comment. In listening to everyone, thank you for all your thoughts. I really have to agree with the line of thinking, that Mr. Chung just explained as far as ad hoc committee, Clerk, if we entertain quarterly reports from the department, is what I'm hearing, that they would be giving us some quarterly reports, would we be able to call like a special meeting just to discuss that, so we would have a full day of interaction and discussions about what is being presented to us, as opposed to mixing it with our agenda? MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, if you anticipate a report, or an interaction, or a working group type of situation, then as long as we have the seven days notice, we could plan for such a thing that is convenient and adjacent to our other meetings, to allow for thorough— CHR. DAVID: Right, full discussion. MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, correct. CHR. DAVID: And involvement of all Council Members, is what I'm trying to MR. HENRICKS: Municipally becomes a matter of coordination. CHR. DAVID: Yes. MR. HENRICKS: Because if you also have members of the public, stakeholders, available as well CHR. DAVID: Right. MR. HENRICKS: Then we could work with the Finance Department to coordinate CHR. DAVID: A special meeting. MR. HENRICKS: Something like that. As Mr. Chung is referring to, I believe those types of meetings were utilized in the past on these kinds of complex matters that have a lot of moving parts. Page 24 FC -15 July 17, 2017 CHR. DAVID: Complex, yes. Okay, I like that idea as opposed to, opposed to forming an ad hoc because I think it would work, where the full Council would have the ability to discuss things out in the open and digest whatever is being presented to us from the reports. Also, when we attend meetings, two or more members attend meetings, we have to bring forward a communication that notifies the Council that certain Council Members were all present at a meeting of sorts. Would this, Mr. Clerk, also apply, in case we would like to attend those meetings of the department, if we report our attendance, like we normally do? MR. HENRICKS: I think that would be a good question for Corporation Council. CHR. DAVID: Okay. MR. HENRICKS: But I would lean towards, I don't think you could have three members at these meetings. CHR. DAVID: Okay, I was just— MR. HENRICKS: Because it's not really a community meeting, where board business may be discussed. What I understand to be happening, is the development of legislation CHR. DAVID: Okay, that will eventually come to the Council. MR. HENRICKS: to affect the tax code, which is a guarantee that you're doing board business from the get -go. CHR. DAVID: Right. Okay, just wanted to clear up those things. Ms. O'Hara? MS. O'HARA: Yeah, just another thought. Thank you, Chair. And this is a question, both for the Clerk; and for Joe Kamelamela, Corporation Counsel. Am I correct to understand that an ad hoc does not have to be restricted to four members if we follow the hearing notices and all the other procedural requirements of having a regular Committee or Council meeting? Is that correct? MR. HENRICKS: Yes, because than you're not really MS. O'HARA: We could have an ad hoc of all nine members of the Council? Page 25 FC -15 July 17, 2017 MR. HENRICKS: Right, you're just having a meeting of the Finance Committee. We would call it a Special Meeting of the Finance Committee. But it's basically your committee, in whole, is participants. We follow all the rules of Chapter 92: produce minutes, allow for testimony, everything, agenda, what not. MS. O'HARA: Okay, so that's another option that we could consider in terms of designing an ad hoc committee on this issue, and I invite discussion on that as a possible way of forming an ad hoc that's not restricted to four members and one in which we would have public meetings that are noticed. MR. HENRICKS: It would just be your committee at that point. What Mr. Chung has presented, I believe as an alternative, is essentially having committee meetings that are dedicated to the subject matter. Committee meetings that are designed to integrate with the working group that the Finance Department is considering. So it would be a meeting just like this, but perhaps based upon the estimated workload, a full dedicated day for that; and again, we would probably schedule those adjacent to your other meetings so that it is convenient for travel. CHR. DAVID: Ms. O'Hara? MS. O'HARA: Thank you for that response. Mr. Kamelamela, do you have anything to weigh in on that? MR. KAMELAMELA: Joseph Kamelamela, Corp. Counsel. I concur with what the County Clerk just stated. Nothing else. CHR. DAVID: Mahalo, Mr. Kamelamela. Mr. Chung, go ahead. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I'm looking at the rules of our Council, and yeah, it does provide for ad hoc committees. But it states, what is it, "Assign at least two members but no more than would constitute a quorum," so that's four. But what I would suggest is this, you could take it on, Madam Chairman, as a Special Meeting of the Finance Committee, or what we could do is change this rule. This ad hoc committee really wasI think everyone will agree, it was intended to streamline the process, but basically it was to avoid having to do all of these procedural requirements, and that's why they made it under—less than a quorum. But if the Finance Committee, maybe creates a sub -committee? Or something like that, it doesn't have to be an ad hoc committee then. Let's not get hung-up on terms already. Yeah, but a special committee, a sub -committee of the Finance Committee, maybe headed by Ms. O'Hara. And we could have everybody there. Doesn't have to be an ad hoc committee. If we want to make it an ad hoc—if we call it an ad hoc committee, then we have to change our Page 26 FC -15 July 17, 2017 rules. But I think we know what we want accomplished, so we just have to find a way of accomplishing that. That's my thoughts. CHR. DAVID: Agreed. I think that's a great suggestion. I don't believe we have to make any decisions today. But I really think, that given the discussions that we did have, I would like to entertain that scenario that you suggested. That way the entire Council can weigh in on this issue. Given that, I believe if—Council Members, are we forming or not, an ad hoc committee today? Point of Order: MS. O'HARA: Point of order, Chair. Maybe we need to call this to a vote. That would be Communication 347. And right now, all that's on the table is a motion to file. CHR. DAVID: This is to file it, yes. MS. O'HARA: Perhaps the motion should be to approve? CHR. DAVID: No, the motion is to file both communications. MS. O'HARA: Okay. CHR. DAVID: That's the motion on the table for both of them, and we just MS. O'HARA: Yeah, and I'm asking if that motion should be withdrawn and if we should ask whether or not to approve, establishing an ad hoc committee under Communication 347? CHR. DAVID: Well, I'm not sure if we can. Mr. Clerk, if we form the ad hoc committee, someone has to actually—we have to be in an agreement of forming one, right? MR. HENRICKS: Correct. Membership is determined and indicated, scope of the investigation, everything is done now. And then we postpone the motion to file CHR. DAVID: Right. MR. HENRICKS: until such time as all of the work is done. And then eventually when you move to accept the report, as a secondary motion; and then you'll vote on the motion to file down the road, then that will dissolve the committee. So the motion to file is the correct motion. It depends on what you want to do right now. If you want to form the committee, then you go ahead and form it. If you don't, the motion could either be withdrawn or voted on. And either one has the same result, which is that there would be no ad hoc today. Page 27 FC -15 July 17, 2017 CHR. DAVID: Okay. Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. As the member that seconded the motion to file, what I hear, everybody wants to be at the table. From what I also heard our clerk describe, having the working group report to the Committee on Finance and dedicate a meeting just for that one particular topic, I think, creates the situation where we're all at the table, which is what we all really want. There may be, going forward, an opportunity for us to create an ad hoc committee, to drill down maybe specifically on some of the conversation, which is why I would maybe not ask Ms. O'Hara to withdraw, but maybe just hold it to the call of the chair so that we're that much closer to having an ad hoc committee, should a conversation come out of the Finance Committee, that we want to drill down on. That we would need the ad committee to focus on. I also sense we're kind of not ready because we would have to identify the scope of the investigation at this time, and I don't think we as a body are ready to do that. We would actually need Mr. Tomei and Ms. Sako to provide a little bit of—more guidance, and it's for framework, as far as where they're starting and how they hope to address what Mr. Chung described as the most complex law that our County has. That's where I stand. I'd like to hear from the rest of my colleagues. I don't want to rush something this important. But, I also think the technical expertise and understanding of our Real Property Tax Code is with the Finance Department, and I feel that they might be the best body to take the first step, and then we can follow or refocus them, if necessary. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Ms. Eoff. MS. EOFF: I tend to agree with Ms. Lee Loy at this time. I think the ad hoc committee could better be implemented at a later date, if necessary. And in the meantime, I think, just get this initiative off the ground. It would be good to have in the hands of the administration, with the understanding that we would like to see a report as soon as possible, to a Special Meeting of the Finance Committee. From there, we would better know how to go forward, if we need a smaller ad hoc of our own, or if we are working in concert with the administration and the public, in a way that provides forward motion on meaningful changes. Yeah, I agree, Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Anyone else, Council Members? Ms. O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: Thank you, Chair. I like what I'm hearing. That would work well, what Ms. Lee Loy just articulated. And in that, Mr. Kamelamela had brought up the fact that—because the initiative right now is driven by the Page 28 FC -15 July 17, 2017 administration, and we, as Council, do not have the ability to tell them what to do. But it does seem like they want to work collaboratively with the Council. So, I think we have a perfect situation. Whereby, in their first report, if they could bring to us what the scope is, what their timeline for immediate issues are, at least a cycle that gives us insight as to what will be investigated, what will be looked at before the next budget cycle, so that we could have some input into their development of their scope; their timeline, and their membership of people on their working group, and hold the Special Meeting of the Finance Committee to have that discussion. That would be excellent. And it does appear that we have collaboration on that. I'm just going to ask the deputy. CHR. DAVID: Are you—okay. MS. SAKO: Yeah, we're back. CHR. DAVID: Perfect. MS. O'HARA: Sorry, I should have asked the director. I'm sorry. MR. TOMEL Okay, no problem. But I do want to make a comment. That email basically asked for input. So your concerns, your considerations, maybe even topic matters would help us. Names of individuals that you would like us to consider, you know, that kind of stuff It will give us direction. MS. O'HARA: Excellent. And I'm really glad that we're able to work collaboratively because this is a very difficult task that we're undertaking here, but it's very, very important in all aspects of County government. So, I'm looking forward to being able to solve some of our long-term problems with this approach. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. And I believe if everyone is Mr. Chung, you have any last comments? No? Okay. Mr. Clerk, given that, before we move on that communication, I would like to thank Ms. O'Hara and my colleagues. I think what we have decided to move forward with makes perfect sense, in a very sensitive issue and a very complex issue, so I totally agree in the route that this Council and this body is taking. And, I thank Council Members for all their input. So with that, can we just file these, vote on the filing on both communications? Thank you, Mr. Clerk. All those in favor of filing Communication 347, please say "aye." Page 29 FC -15 Vote on Comm. 347 Filed July 17, 2017 The motion to close file on Comm. 347 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Ruggles, and Chair David - 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Richards - 2. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: And Communication 348, all those in favor of filing Communication? I'm sorry? MR. HENRICKS: Motion to take off the table? MR. KANUHA: We have to take it off the table. CHR. DAVID: Oh okay, I'm sorry. Thank you. Vote on Motion Mr. Kanuha moved to remove Comm. 348 from the table. Remove from Table: Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following (Approved) voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Ruggles, and Chair David - 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Richards - 2. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Now, all those in favor of filing Comm. 348, please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 348: The motion to close file on Comm. 348 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Ruggles, and Chair David - 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Richards - 2. Excused: None. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. (There were none.) Page 30 FC-15 July 17, 2017 BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) CHR. DAVID: Motion to adjourn, please? ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 10:28 a.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Ruggles, and Chair David- 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Richards - 2. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: We are adjourned. Mahalo, everybody. Approved: AM. 41, «11/1 Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair (Date) Finance Committee MD/na Page 31