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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PSMTC 2017/09/06 2016-2018COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY AND MASS TRANSIT 411 Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii September 6, 2017 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Public Safety and Mass Transit ORDER: was called to order at 2:37 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Chair Ms. Karen Eoff, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Member Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member (came in later) Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: COMMUNI- CATIONS: The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. The following individual registered to speak, and came forward when called by the Chair: Patti Pinto: Comm. 412, comment. The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Communications. Comm. 411: REQUESTS DISCUSSION REGARDING THE CURRENT STATUS OF THE HELE-ON KAKO`O PARATRANSIT SERVICE From Mass Transit Agency Program Manager Karyle Yamane, dated August 17, 2017. (Note: Comm. 411. 1, from Karyle Yamane, Mass Transit Agency Program Manager, providing online links to YouTube video commentary relating to the Hele-On Kako`o paratransit service, was circulated.) PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 411. Seconded by Ms. David. (Note: At this time, Mass Transit Agency Program Manager Karyle Yamane came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. RUGGLES: You may proceed, Ms. Yamane. Thank you. MS. YAMANE: Okay, good morning. Let me get a minute here first. I'm Karyle Yamane, by the way, and I'm the former Paratransit Specialist, the Program Manager. Actually, right now I'm in my current capacity. I'm not with Mass Transit anymore, but I thought this would be a good time to, one, introduce myself to some of the newer Council, and then to let you guys know what's been happening over the past year with the Paratransit Service. Point of MR. KANUHA: Just as a point of clarification, Madam Chair? Who is the Clarification: paratransit, the current one? Oh, maybe that's— MS. YAMANE: Officially I don't know. MR. KANUHA: Okay, never mind. I don't know. MS. YAMANE: To be honest, like what I was told, the position would be filled by our former, well, I don't know if she's acting still yet, but by—Tiffany Kai was supposed to take this position. I'm not sure if she's in this position now, so I don't know what her current capacity is. Okay, sorry. Because that was a hard one. Okay, I'm going to just go into the presentation, if that's okay? CHR. RUGGLES: Yes, please. (Note: At this time, Ms. Yamane gave a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 411.) CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, thank you. I believe, Ms. Lee Loy, you've put your light on. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Just a couple of questions. You mentioned the Kona service area was 20 miles, from Keahole to an area, just Napo`opo`o. Tell me again how many participants in that? MS. YAMANE: There is—wait, can you hear me? There is, right now, well as of July 31 st, I think there were 72 in Kona that were eligible. But even though Page 2 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 that's where they reside, it doesn't prohibit anybody else from riding. Say you live in Hilo but you have eligibility, you can go to Kona and go ride it. We have visitors that come in from like on Oahu or the mainland and they get visitor's status, where they're able to use the service, as well. MS. LEE LOY: Perfect. And then Hilo service area, is how large? It's more of a bubble. MS. YAMANE: Yeah, Hilo is more on like a—that I was kind of hard to measure what exactly, what the surface area was. But they—Hilo is a little bit easier to navigate, transportation wise because we're kind of more or less on a grid. There's more ways to get from point "a" to point "b" versus Kona. I think what happens in Hilo, though, is just because we have way more transportation options it's not being taken advantage of. So if you get one ride, so say, and you call in the driver, you've got to pay for that four-hour block. But I'm not sure what exactly is the miles. MS. LEE LOY: And then you had a graphic regarding performance, 96 percent on-time performance. That was an annual snapshot. And what was the dates, like June through July? MS. YAMANE: Yes, that is from—so from July 1 of last year to June 30th of this year. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. MS. YAMANE: So one complete year. Actually, no, I take that back. I think it also includes July 31 st of this year. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. Alright, thank you. I yield. CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: Oh, thank you. Some of the things I'm going to bring up you may not have the answers to, so don't feel bad. We're doing this only for the Hilo and Kona areas. MS. YAMANE: Yes. MS. O'HARA: Have we ever given thought to expanding this program to some of the more populated areas, such as Pahoa or Waimea? What has been the analysis there, if any, in terms of providing the service? MS. YAMANE: I'm glad you asked that, actually. I do have your answer. Page 3 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. O'HARA: Oh, good. MS. YAMANE: So paratransit is complimentary. It is attached to any fixed route system, so that's an FTA (Federal Transit Administration) determination. So in essence, paratransit only grows wherever the fixed route grows. So if fixed routes are expanded and offered to other areas, then paratransit will grow. It has to follow by law. I guess what you're asking is just kind of, would we expand without fixed route expanding? That would actually—that could be a decision made on Council level or whatever. But as far as how this grows, it's only mandated to follow where the fixed route is. So right now, like for instance, Pdhoa or the Pena area, those aren't considered fixed routes. MS. O'HARA: They are not considered fixed routes? MS. YAMANE: No. MS. O'HARA: Oh. MS. YAMANE: May be a question for the Master Plan one. MS. O'HARA: Then I guess I need the definition of a fixed route. Why is it? MS. YAMANE: Fixed route, that's—well, I should let the Mass Transit side— MS. O'HARA: Yeah, yeah, okay. MS. YAMANE: I guess, maybe get the real definition of that one. But my understanding is that it has a frequency criteria, like how often the busses run. I think it has to do with frequency. MS. O'HARA: Okay. MS. YAMANE: Like how often the busses run. So when you're looking at the Intra -Hilo and Kona, the schedules, I don't know if it's a certain amount of time that it comes by or it runs into. MS. O'HARA: Okay. MS. YAMANE: I was just—sorry. MS. O'HARA: Yeah, I am curious. Because I think we have at this point, I think there's four or five busses a day servicing the Hilo/Pdhoa run, so I don't know what qualifies. Fixed route, I don't know how many miles, or time, or whatever it's required. But it would be nice to understand that better. Thank you. Page 4 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. YAMANE: Okay. CHR. RUGGLES: Mr. Kanuha. MR. KANUHA: Thank you. Mahalo for the presentation, giving us what has been going on for the last year. I know it's something we asked for a long time ago. So now that we've got some numbers, it's easier to understand really what's going on. In terms of the extension to Puna areas and Waimea areas, I mean these were all the things we talked about before. Other Council Members advocated for that, why only Kona and Hilo, yeah? And so if there is opportunities to fix that fixed transit— MS. YAMANE: Right. MR. KANUHA: —whatever that definition is, to get operating in these other areas that I'm sure also need the services as well. I think, back you guys up, back you guys up, however you guys want to do that. And maybe that's the question that leads into, the Kona service area and why the entire portion of Holualoa isn't part of that service area. Is it because there isn't a fixed route and that's not a designated fixed route? MS. YAMANE: Okay, so I can actually answer that one. So if we go back to just kind of backtrack a little bit, I didn't make the fixed routes or what the routes are for the existing system. But the way that—how we determine our service area, is we go—I get the information from Mass Transit, where this is where the bus lines go. This is the regular bus route. It's a fixed route. This is where the bus travels, and then we go a mile off of that. So if you shoot like a laser, it's a mile off of that. The bus does not run—so when you're looking at the upper highway, the bus doesn't run on Kuakini. Since it goes down on Alii Drive, one mile up from Alii Drive only takes you thus far. So that whole area on H61ualoa, unless the fixed route moves up or they change it, it's not going to cover that area. Wait, let me try pull up that thing again. Where were we? There we are. I don't know if we can make it bigger. MR. KANUHA: And as a question— MS. YAMANE: But yeah, so the bus line runs down here on Alii. So that's why this is that one mile up, and then—H61ualoa, yeah, is not covered. It's important to know the one exception that we do make, is in this area right here, which is Palisades, because of how the bus line goes, there would be this one little area—I don't know if it's showing up over there—but this one little area that would not Page 5 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 be covered. So say your neighbor lives two roads up and you live down here, if you're in that space where—technically, that one mile doesn't cover you. You would be kind of out of luck. So in that area we actually do pick them up anyway. MR. KANUHA: I was going to say ridiculous. MS. YAMANE: Yeah, we do it anyway. MR. KANUHA: I'm glad you guys do. MS. YAMANE: Right. Well, like literally it could be like one neighbor down, and they'd be like, "I'm out of the service," and I'm, "Oops, technical yes, but we'll get you." MR. KANUHA: And do you know if there has been people trying to—or if there have been applicants from these areas that aren't in this fixed route— MS. YAMANE: Yes. MR. KANUHA: —that would like to be in this eligible, I guess, for paratransit? MS. YAMANE: Yes, we do. There actually are—there are some that are eligible. They have gone through the process, and they're actually eligible to ride the paratransit. However, we cannot—if their pick-up location is outside of the service area, we cannot get them. We have some that live out, like going towards like H6naunau. I think it's H6naunau. Kealakekua, you know when that Napo`opo`o Road, down there there's some residential houses. But it's like two miles down that road, so it's like way outside of the service area. We have—how some of them do it, is—they're eligible, they get the assessment, they have the card. They have a relative or somebody bring them into town, and then while they're in the service area, they can schedule their pick-ups from wherever they want to go. They do their errands for the day, and they go back. But there are some that actually was like, "Well, I still needed to come to my house," and in that case our service can't go ahead and pick them up. So, we do talk to the other agencies. Sometimes Coordinated Services, or HCEOC (Hawai`i County Economic Opportunity Council) are sometimes able to assist. But in that case, if it's really outside, if it's kind of right on the borderline, we'll do it. MR. KANUHA: You said—what about that, I think you said something earlier about Waimea, of being picked up? Page 6 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. YAMANE: Okay, so in that particular case, that is what we do. It's called an assist. MR. KANUHA: Oh, okay. MS. YAMANE: So in that capacity we're not acting as paratransit. We are—it's kind of like a safety net for the regular transportation system. Because by law, if the bus is not able to pick up one of the passengers, they have half -an -hour to send another vehicle. If there isn't another vehicle that's available, then they'll call on us. MR. KANUHA: (inaudible) Hele-on— MS. YAMANE: Even though, yeah, even though it's out of our service area, like I said, you `re going to have somebody stranded out in Waimea, so if we can—if our rider luck for that day, our drivers are able to do it, we have somebody in the area, we'll go ahead and pick them up. MR. KANUHA: So it wasn't considered under the paratransit guideline? MS. YAMANE: No, it's not. It's not. We consider those "thele -on Assist." MR. KANUHA: Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. CHR. RUGGLES: Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Looking at your cost of the ridership, I'm sure it's been looked at and compared nationally? MS. YAMANE: Yes. MR. RICHARDS: How does this look nationally? I have an idea, but can you compare that for us? MS. YAMANE: Compare to where? MR. RICHARDS: The cost, each ride, the average cost riding in Hawaii versus a national average. MS. YAMANE: I don't know. Actually, to be honest I don't know what it is for the other counties. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Page 7 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. YAMANE: The highest that I've seen, I think, on the East Coast, like just nationally, no, that I don't know. I can find that out though, and I can send it to you. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, had me curious. I'm going to venture to say it because of the shape, like Kona, your ridership is kind of stretched out and you don't have the volume, so it's probably substantially higher on an average. But I'd like to know that number, if you can find out. MS. YAMANE: I can find that out. MR. RICHARDS: Appreciate it. Thank you. I yield. CHR. RUGGLES: Anyone else? Okay seeing none, I do have a few questions. It was a great presentation. MS. YAMANE: Thank you. CHR. RUGGLES: So how much—I noticed one of the comments on the back here was that service is too costly. MS. YAMANE: Right. CHR. RUGGLES: How much is it? MS. YAMANE: So, it's $4.00. It's a flat rate, $4.00, regardless of the distance traveled. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. And so I am assuming the bearers for getting an equal service into Puna, is an issue of fixed routes? MS. YAMANE: Right. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, so we need to figure out what a fixed route is and how— MS. YAMANE: I believe it has to do with frequency, right. CHR. RUGGLES: How is a fixed route established? MS. YAMANE: That's for the Mass Transit guys. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. Page 8 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. YAMANE: Yeah, they got that. But, yes, just to let you know, if fixed routes are established anywhere else in this County, paratransit, by law, has to follow. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. MS. YAMANE: Yeah, it's based on the—yes, with the ADA Act (Americans with Disabilities Act). CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. And do you get your funding strictly from the County? MS. YAMANE: I don't know where this—to be honest, I don't know where the funding came. I can just tell you what was spent for the year. I'm not sure what our budget was or is. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. So the General Plan has—it says that Puna's population as of 2015 actually superseded Hilo's. MS. YAMANE: I believe that. CHR. RUGGLES: And if we need more people on it—you said that more people we have, the more effective it is. MS. YAMANE: Cost effective. So, you've got frequency. The other thing you need to take into consideration, is like the distance. In the mainland, when you look at how cities are set up, most times they're on a grid type of system, where there's alternate routes to get from point "a" to point "b." When you start—I mean, we're called the Big Island for a reason. We've got lots of pavement in between points of destination. So if you're, I'm just going to assume here, if you're bringing in riders from, like the Pahoa, the Puna side, into town, it would have to be—in order for it to be cost effective and to keep seeing a decline, you would have to be able to pick up a bunch of riders, kind of like within that same block, going to the same way, unless of course they were all going to stay within that same, like in the Puna area, but of course most times the services are in town or they're in Kona. So that is going to—if it gets expanded there, that's going to skew what the cost per rider is. Because you may not have to—you may not be able to fill that four-hour block like how Hilo will be able to do it because you're just moving somebody from one side of town to here and back. Bringing people from outside into where the service areas are, which would be Hilo, I think—you're looking at something completely different. It probably won't come cheaper in that way. But you still need to figure a way to get them in. Page 9 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 CHR. RUGGLES: Right. Has there been any education efforts, sort of on the busses that service Puna? Because if we can bring those people from Puna—but there are a lot of people that once they get there, they're sort of stuck at the bank until the next bus comes for a couple of hours, or their doctors. I don't think a lot of people even know about the Paratransit Service available to them, even just in Hilo, when they're in Hilo. MS. YAMANE: Right. There hasn't been like any type of, I guess, like press release or advertisement to my knowledge about the program. As far as like doing the studies, about how in the ridership out in that side, I would defer that one to the Mass Transit guys. They probably have better answers for you folks. But anyways— CHR. RUGGLES: Yeah, I think that a lot of people don't know, even though this is an option. MS. YAMANE: Right. CHR. RUGGLES: I do have constituents call me and they need help because some people are on wheelchairs or they need to be lifted in and out. MS. YAMANE: Right. Well, the information how this, as with kind of any County service or program—so the information is available. It's online; it's down at the bus terminal. We have it at our ADRC (Aging and Disability Resource Center) centers. It's at West Hawaii. So we have it at a bunch of the County building locations as well as some of the other nonprofit organizations that may have participants in their programs that might be interested. Short of that, or maybe doing like a PSA (Public Service Announcement), I'm not aware of any other, I guess, ways that were done to get the information out. CHR. RUGGLES: Do you have brochures? MS. YAMANE: Yes. CHR. RUGGLES: What if we were to put those on the busses? MS. YAMANE: You could. CHR. RUGGLES: I'll check. It might be a good idea. MS. YAMANE: I'll check with the guys behind me. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. Page 10 PSMTC-4 Vote on Comm. 411: Filed September 6, 2017 MS. YAMANE: Yeah, we do. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, great. Thanks. So I guess the next steps would be to figure out, how do we establish these fixed routes? Okay, well with that I thank you very much for your time educating us on this. MS. YAMANE: Okay, bye. CHR. RUGGLES: All those in favor of filing Communication 411 please say "aye." The motion to close file on Comm. 411 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair Ruggles - 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. RUGGLES: Mr. Clerk, Communication 412. Comm. 412: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY REPRESENTATIVES OF THE MASS TRANSIT AGENCY AND SSFM INTERNATIONAL INC. REGARDING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMPREHENSIVE MASS TRANSIT MASTER PLAN FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII From Council Member Eileen O'Hara, dated August 14, 2017. (Note: Comm. 412. 1, from Mass Transit Consultant & Analyst Curtis Sharp dated August 31, 2017, transmitting a hardcopy of the PowerPoint presentation, was circulated.) Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 412. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR. RUGGLES: Would you guys like to come up? It doesn't look like we have copies. Okay, we'll call a brief five minute recess. (Note: At this time, Mr. Curtis Sharp, Transit Consultant and Analyst for the Office of Management; and Ms. Cheryl Soon, Planning Group Manager of SSFM International, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SOON: If you'd like, I can explain to you "fixed route." Page 11 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MR. SHARP: Why don't you? MS. SOON: The definition of "fixed route" is that it has a regular service. CHR. RUGGLES: Oh, wait a minute. We want to make sure that this is on the record. MS. SOON: Okay. Keep you in suspense. CHR. RUGGLES: I'm sorry, Auntie. Okay, we're in recess. Recess: At 3:18 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 3:24 p.m. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, I'm going to call this meeting back to order. Go ahead, it looks like we all have a copy of the presentation here. So whenever you're ready, Mr. Sharp. MR. SHARP: I liked the previous presentation. It was very good, very informative. As the County Clerk said, we're here to discuss the Hawaii Transit Master Plan, the development and the progress. Tiffany Kai couldn't make it today; she's ill. I'm Curt Sharp. To my right is Cheryl Soon; Linda, I hope I get this right, Frysztacki—okay, alright, sorry; and Jo -Anna Herkes in the back there. (Note: At this time, Mr. Sharp and Ms. Soon gave a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A hardcopy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 412. 1.) MS. SOON: So that completes my presentation, Madam Chair. CHR. RUGGLES: Thank you. Alright, now for questions. Ms. O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. And thank you for that presentation. I really appreciate it, Ms. Soon. I do have a number of questions. I've got to find the first page, where I jotted down my notes. MS. SOON: Okay. MS. O'HARA: I am in possession of the contract, and there seems to have been some changes in the timeline and not so much to the scope, because originally I had called for the first round of public meetings in the first six months of the contract. Page 12 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. SOON: That's correct. MS. O'HARA: And so you changed that up somehow? MS. SOON: Yes. We felt that the rider—directly hearing from the riders would be most critical. That had actually not been fully anticipated when we drafted the contract, so we put in the ridership survey and made it a priority out of that. Still gathering information. There was information we would like to have had that just wasn't available, and so we had to go in and develop it. For example, the current routes were not as reflected in the service maps, even the ones that are posted, for example, at the terminal. So there were a number of tasks that we had to go in and do some basic work that might normally had been just provided to us. MS. O'HARA: Okay, that makes sense. I agree with you, the public input part is absolutely critical here. You just spoke about, for instance the hub -and -spoke approach, which is really the way to address the Puna district with its large lengthy subdivisions, and yet we haven't really gone in to assess that in terms of the public input. I realize this survey on the bus, which is useful information, but right now our bus ridership obviously consist of people who have in many instances no other option from the stats that you provided. What we really want to do is attract ridership of people who do have alternative options for transportation. MS. SOON: (Inaudible) riders, yes. MS. O'HARA: Just to get the cars off of the road. The numbers you gave for growth in the Big Island are realistic. The Planning Department is looking at $30000 by 2040, and most of that is going to move in and fill in, in the Puna district, a lot of it will be. We still have somewhere between 35 to 50 percent of the massive number of subdivision lots available for development, and it's the least expensive land in the State. So that's where we're going to see the development. Right now, and I'm not sure if SSFM is made aware, but the Mayor has called upon DPW, Department of Public Works, to do a Master Road Circulation Plan for Puna. We just had a kick-off meeting, Patti is a community member on that committee, and I brought up the fact that we have to consider the Mass Transit as we're doing the Road Circulation Plan. I'm trying to ensure that we bring this into the short-term rather than the medium or long-term vision as you just mentioned, in terms of that integration. In the spoke -and -hub approach, of course Page 13 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 affects the types of capital, busses that we purchase, moving forward and what we put into service. So I really want to try and integrate these things as we're all doing our disparate activities and bring it all together. It's really important, and will service better in the long run. I also had a question about the MPOs (Metropolitan Planning Organization). I've been getting some interesting papers from students on these. You say Maui passed the threshold in the 2010 census, but it's talking about in urban areas. So where in Maui, or was it the whole Island? I don't follow. Was that the whole island? MS. SOON: Yes, the ultimate designation, the MPO became the whole island, but it was Wailuku and Kahului that qualified them. MS. O'HARA: Okay, so Puna is hitting 50,000 people. In some references, whether you're talking Federal categories or whatever, could be considered reaching the urban threshold. MS. SOON: Yes, you're going to cross the threshold in 2020. MS. O'HARA: Right. So it may not just be Hilo, is my point. I think the whole district of Puna. I don't know how we're doing this. If this is district wide or island -wide. MS. SOON: This becomes a negotiated item. MS. O'HARA: Okay. MS. SOON: Between you, the State, and FTA, but you could designate the whole island once you've crossed—one part has crossed the threshold. MS. O'HARA: Okay. MS. SOON: Which is, Maui did. MS. O'HARA: Okay, great. And when we do get to the first round of public input, which is coming, we said October, I think? MS. SOON: Yes, October 9th will be the first meeting if it MS. O'HARA: Okay, if you've already got dates and everything for those meetings, I mean we're in September already, please, please, please alert all of the Council Members. We have our own list of constituencies. I have an email list of over 500 people and social media, etcetera. Page 14 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. SOON: Right. MS. O'HARA: I would like to see the folks of Puna get out and give you their input. So please work with us to get that out there. The standard methods of little ads in the paper don't work that well anymore with the social media aspects. MS. SOON: Yes, thank you so much for that offer. MS. O'HARA: Yeah, please. MS. SOON: Jo -Anna Herkes, from our Hilo office, will be coordinating advertisement, of all kinds, including posting them in stores and on the busses. If you have your own contacts list, mahalo, we want that. MS. O'HARA: Is there an online effort, like a—I won't say, well, could be a survey monkey kind of approach or some kind of surveying online? Because a lot of people, at least in my district because it is spread out, don't necessarily want to show up for a weekend or a nighttime meeting, but they would like to give their input and could do so through the internet. So if there's a way to collect surveys that way, that would be another approach, every possible way of collecting that public input. I really want to see that we have shook the bushes and gotten as much good information as we can. MS. SOON: Excellent. Thank you very, very much. MS. O'HARA: Alright, and with that I yield. I know everybody else has lots of questions, too. CHR. RUGGLES: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Ms. Poindexter. MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you for the presentation. Ridership population, is that ridership population, is what I meant to say. When you have North Kohala, Hamakua, Hilo, because Hamakua seems to be really low, I mean, compared to like Hilo. I don't see—is Hamakua meaning it's my district or are we talking about just Pa`auilo, Honoka`a, O`6kala, one small—how did you get those numbers? What is the population? MS. SOON: These are the planning districts. MS. POINDEXTER: Planning districts. And the population is? How do you get those numbers? MS. SOON: From Planning Department. MS. POINDEXTER: So it's not ridership then? Page 15 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. SOON: No. MS. POINDEXTER: No. So I can tell you that the numbers are, to me, is wrong. MS. SOON: (inaudible) referring to your district are wrong? MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. What would be best, when we're talking about, this is my opinion, when we're talking about you're planning this transit system, I would love to see it by district, as the County has the districts, right? Because if you want input, I can give a lot of input from District 1, and I've been giving that for years now, saying that by the time the bus comes to Laupdhoehoe, people have to stand up already. The bus is so packed, and they've got to ride it all the way down to the Hilton. So by the time they get to Pa' auilo, people get on, and they're carrying these little buckets or benches and they try to sit. People are standing, and they're trying to sit in the center aisles, and it is a disaster waiting to happen. If we had an accident with an overloaded bus—but they've got to get on because they've got to get to work. So when you look at the ridership, when you talk about for employees, the percentages were high. The percentages are high for going to work because even Puna people are catching it all the way down to the hotel. So that's why I've asked, can we take a bus, Dan Inouye Highway, going up that way for the Puna people who need to get down that way? Then the bus coming this way is freed up and it's safe to ride the bus. MS. SOON: Yeah, and I think what I hear you're saying, which is absolutely correct, is not just the matter of the number of riders, it's the conditions that they have to ride. You have no choice. By the time the bus gets to you, it's full. MS. POINDEXTER: Right. MS. SOON: And so you have standees at best. MS. POINDEXTER: Right. The reason why I said separate it by our County districts, is because we can give you a lot of good information. A lot of times, like when you have the public input meetings, a lot of these people are working or they have families with kids in school. So by the time they come home from work, they cannot go out. They've got to stay home with the kids, homework, meals, or whatever it is. It's hard to get the riders out there. So, use us. We know. The constituents are the ones calling us and complaining, so we can give you a lot of feedback. But it's hard to figure it out when the districts—the way it's set up, because south—I don't know if South Kohala includes Waikoloa, or if North Kohala includes Waikoloa, you know what I mean? So, it's real difficult to figure. Page 16 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. SOON: We did use the Planning's districts, so those are in your County system. What I'm hearing, is that the Council districts do not coincide with the Planning districts. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, I've not— MS. SOON: (Inaudible) plan districts. They don't, okay. So that's something I've learned today, and I can work with you to gather input. It doesn't have to be restricted to your district but overall. I hear you. MS. POINDEXTER: Right. I just want to thank Council Member O'Hara for bringing this up because now it's early enough where we can kind of try to tweak some stuff here, so that we can make sure to get the best input from our riders. Even if it's not from them directly giving it to you, but through us, through rather phone calls or through community meetings, whatever it is. That we're out there; that we can relay that information to you. MS. SOON: We appreciate the offer of partnership. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. MS. SOON: Thank you. MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you. CHR. RUGGLES: Mr. Kanuha. MR. KANUHA: Thank you. Mahalo for the presentation again. We've been talking about this for a long time. I'm so glad to see a point, a date, where all of this is going to be moving forward, and getting the communities' input on what we really need. I can't believe we never had a plan in the first place, which is crazy. But I'm so glad, also, that we're changing this vision. Create a transportation agency the rest of the world recognizes as the best, that could mean so many things and could be so many terrible things. But I like that vision, the new vision. Hopefully, the community likes it as well. Just a couple of questions. I want to kind of go back into the original, and I was holding this in forever, about the— MS. SOON: Sorry I talked too much. Page 17 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MR. KANUHA: No, no, no. About the fixed route, I was going to try clarify. was going like should I do that or not. I didn't want to interrupt you. MS. SOON: No. MR. KANUHA: Having these areas that are considered commuter routes, and kind of going through the process in my head and maybe the process through the administration, of keeping these as commuter routes, was there any hesitation of keeping these as commuter routes so the County isn't going to be required under these fixed routes to be mandated by these certain requirements? Was that the hesitation of moving, or no, or is it part of a hesitation? MS. SOON: I don't know that. I think if that were the case, that would not be looked upon favorably by FTA. MR. KANUHA: Yeah, and I hope that's not the hesitation. MS. SOON: Yeah. But my, from Oahu, understanding of the system, it was very much built up in order to bring commuters to the hotels. It really was built up as a commuter system. MR. KANUHA: Okay. MS. SOON: And that's not unusual. MR. KANUHA: Yeah, yeah. And then I'm going to kind of piggy -back on what Ms. O'Hara was talking about, the MPOs in Maui, as an entire island, as transitioning over that threshold, and to making it an MPO. But in terms of Hilo, I'm trying to see the district of Hilo or this planning district of Hilo, what is actually considered an area, this urbanize area? What are the boundaries that would push you over the threshold? Because, to me, Hilo as a district is already over that threshold in terms of population wise, which would have made an MPO years ago—which would had mandated an MPO years ago. So what is that? MS. SOON: Yeah, as a planner, I probably should be able to answer that question, but it is a little tricky. It would only happen every ten years, post to census. MR. KANUHA: Oh, every ten years. MS. SOON: And how the census draws the boundaries, in order to say "Okay, you've met, pass the threshold," I'm not sure I really know. But you're so close that you just probably should be anticipating it. Page 18 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 Although there—somebody comes your way, actually, when you become an MPO, but so do a lot of reporting requirements. Things that might be good to do now, like the way you collect your ridership numbers, they have kind of a template for reporting that. It would be nice to just start it now, so that when the time comes it doesn't seem, "Oh my gosh, we have to do something all brand new." That's just one example. There's a dozen or so reporting things that are going to have to happen. MR. KANUHA: Yeah, because with the last census, I think Hilo was over 50,000. MS. SOON: Well, you would have been snagged at that time, if that was so. You must've been just under. MR. KANUHA: I don't know. Because we did the redistricting and Hilo—in the district of Hilo, had that 55,000 population. MS. SOON: Okay. MR. KANUHA: Kona had a 48, Puna had like a 45, and this is what I remember from the actual redistricting. Maybe I'm exaggerating the lines of what lines I used, but I'm pretty sure that was what we were operating under the—I'm not—that's not your fault. MS. SOON: It will be fruitful for you to dialogue with your counterparts from Maui. It took them a good two -and -half years or so to negotiate the structure, because you negotiate with the State and with FTA and with Federal Highways. The advantage is that all Federal funding that get spent on this island, you choose it. It's not the State anymore. You have to do because working them. But you move into a driver seat when this happens. State used to be in the driver seat, so it's a shift. MR. KANUHA: Okay. So maybe I've got to get more clarification about what are those boundaries and what's considered. MS. SOON: Let me think about how. That's stuff I have to ask FTA because I just don't know. MR. KANUHA: Is there something—I was like, okay, what would qualify as that? MS. SOON: Yeah. Page 19 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MR. KANUHA: Passenger survey results, you said 29.7 are students. High school, intermediate, college, is that all combined into this? MS. SOON: Yes, and that was one of the surprises to me. When I was working with the surveyors, who were working from Kona side and Nd` dlehu, how many high school students are commuting to Waimea to go to school. I was shocked. That's a long day for them. MR. SHARP: We've got a whole bunch of HPA (Hawai`i Preparatory Academy) students that catch the bus. MR. KANUHA: Yeah. MS. SOON: In fact on— MR. KANUHA: I remember years ago when the State cut down on the amount of service that they were going to the school or raise price. I forgot what it was. This was years ago. MS. SOON: There's a relationship. MR. KANUHA: I knew the County took upon themselves a lot more riders, students. MS. SOON: Well, a little anecdote. It was interesting, that particular bus that I was on, they talked about the front of the bus being the living room. If you wanted to talk, you're supposed to sit in the front of the bus; and if you're back of the bus, it's assumed that you need to get your rest. There's a little guy, who kind of—a really nice guy, who rides the bus quite a bit, and he sort of said if you're in the wrong section, if you want to sleep, probably try sitting in the back. And if you're talking in the back, he invites you up to the front. It's not the driver who does that. So a little bit of rider— MR. KANUHA: Okay. No, thank you. Thanks for a lot of this information. I'm just happy we're moving towards a solution for our entire island. So mahalo for this. That's all the questions I had, Madam Chair. MS. SOON: I would just like to say that the—we're moving into an important territory of partnering with you guys. Because I can go out there and have meetings and offer, if you will, the world, and they're all going to want it. But there becomes a cost to it, then you get into pretty uncomfortable seats. So we kind of have to—I have to do these public meetings in a way to get input but without promising the world, because that would be unfair to you. Page 20 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 I don't know where it's all going to fall down. None of us know right now. But we will try to make reasonable suggestions to you, that give you options to say "Heck, you could do it all right next year," and all of a sudden your budget is four times what it is now, or you could phase it in. I won't keep in any suspense, we're going to recommend Puna hub -and -spoke first. The first thing you do, because we think it's ready for it. We think it's an obvious location for it, and the service is clear—and the equipment that you'd need for it. But, there can be political consequences to that. And those who say, "Why does Puna get everything?" Puna doesn't think that they get everything. But there will be those who say, "Why wasn't it Waimea?" So, trade offs, things you're all familiar with. But I want you to know that I respect the position you're in, and I'm going to try and get as much input as possible without boxing you into a corner. MR. KANUHA: Thank you. CHR. RUGGLES: Thanks. Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. I guess I'm kind of back to what Mr. Kanuha said, concerning the survey results—I think it's been a long day. MS. SOON: I apologize. MR. RICHARDS: Sixty-three percent said had excellent or good service, Sixty- three percent of the people surveyed. That population— MS. SOON: That's correct, of the people surveyed. That's correct. MR. RICHARDS: —are people on the bus? MS. SOON: Of people on the bus. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. The current ridership, MS. SOON: Yes. MR. RICHARDS: Because I know a bunch of my constituents don't ride the bus anymore because they're so dissatisfied. MS. SOON: I'm not surprised. MR. RICHARDS: Did you try to reach—or was it j ust current ridership? MS. SOON: The March was an on -board ridership survey, yeah. Page 21 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MR. RICHARDS: Okay, and then the employment status of the passenger, 55 percent of full-time employed. Was the question asked, are they commuting to their job or just whether or not they had a job? MS. SOON: Both. We did trip purpose, so it would have been riding to their job. Why you're on the bus right now? What is the purpose of your trip? MR. RICHARDS: So where it says passenger survey, half the people on the bus are commuting to a job? MS. SOON: Said that their trip purpose was commuting to a job, yes. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. MS. SOON: Which is not surprising, because some of those commuter routes probably was 100 percent of those riders. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, I yield. MS. SOON: Thank you. CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. Soon. I want to back up a little bit, where Mr. Kanuha left off and Ms. Richards stepped in. It was the MPO. All of a sudden hit me, is this—the way I'm reading it, it "carries additional mandatory reporting and management requirements for the public transportation agency." Does that mean we're going to have to have a Mass Transit commission? No? MS. SOON: No. You can keep your organization of MTA the way it is, but you will have to form an MPO and decide who sits on it. MS. LEE LOY: And those will be individuals within the Mass Transit Agency or out? MS. SOON: There's a certain amount of latitude in that. But there will be some State representatives; for example, Ford Fujikami is a member of the MPO in Maui. There can be—on Oahu, the majority are City Council Members and State Representatives. That is a little bit frowned upon by the Federal agencies. They don't want it all elected officials because they feel you have another bite at the apple in another way. But you are required to have your MTA have one seat on the board. But beyond that, you could get your DPW director, or you could decide you have a public member. There's a fair amount of flexibility. Page 22 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. LEE LOY: But that would have to be formed? MS. SOON: It would, yeah. On Oahu, it was the State Legislature that formed it. MS. LEE LOY: Okay, because I want to— MS. SOON: It has to be legislatively formed. MS. LEE LOY: So would that require a Charter amendment? MS. SOON: No. MS. LEE LOY: Because the vehicle already exists in the State statute? MS. SOON: It's a Federal mandate, and you form the MPO statutorily. I've never seen it in the County Charter. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. And then one thing you also touched upon, and I think this is where everybody's heading, is there's going to be some costs associated and then there's going to need some balancing act. Going forward, is your Master Plan going to have some level return on investment? And by that I mean, if we're investing in busses, at what point do we see a return on investment because the ridership will begin to pay for the bus? MS. SOON: There is no transit system in America whose ridership pays for the bus. They all have a subsidy. In Honolulu, there is a County Council policy that ridership return; i.e., fares, will be between 27 and 33 percent; so when they build their budget, they have to build that into it. So it can't go below can't go above. Why? Because they have a public policy, a belief system, that it's good to have a transit system in your County whether you use it or not. Therefore, they have essentially, to make a long story short, a General Fund subsidy. There's some Federal funds that get thrown in, but there's a General Fund subsidy, which technically gets moved from the General Fund into the Highway Fund, and from the Highway into Trans—you probably have similarities in the way things work here. Fare box return, I've really never seen them higher than 50 percent. That's for luxury commuter services, where they're getting some Mercedes, taking them from "a" to "b" to "c." I'm not aware that you have a policy like that, but that's something to be thought through because you can plan on it one way or another. And say, "Look, we can't afford to have a subsidy beyond $4 million a year." Fares are going to have to cover $1 million, that would put you in a 25 percent range. So you're going to have to figure out a service level of $5 million or $5.5 or $6 million, whatever the numbers may be. Page 23 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 I'm not sure the method for how our Master Plan negotiates that with you. But we can show you Service Level A, Service Level B, Service Level C, and then you debate it now, or we can't do it this year but we can—all those variables. This will be a tool, I hope, for you too. And especially the Financial Plan, for you, we'll give you the formulas so you can manipulate them and do "what if' scenarios. But that's what we hope to provide for your use. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and that's actually where I was going with that. Is in the financial planning, we already are subsidizing the Mass Transit office, $7 million already. For future planning, I would love to see that because it helps us when we're doing our budget. The other thing is, it also helps us make other decisions. Which leads me into the question of—you mentioned that this information was being created for, like a GIS (Geographical Information System) overlay. Has any thought been given for it to be able to be dovetailed into the General Plan update that's coming forward? And then, I think Ms. O'Hara mentioned it, where they were doing a Highway Master Plan, and which roads to improve first, which would fit the Mass Transit hub -and -spoke plan or the commuter routes better. Has there been any thought given to that? MS. SOON: Two questions, I'll take the last one first. It's the first that I heard of the plan. That's wonderful. Yes, we could certainly give locations, from only Mass Transit perspective would be good ones to get started on first, so we can provide input to that now that I know it exists. That's great. The General Plan, it sounds to me like we will beat them to you. I have some familiarity with their process, and I am hopeful. We took a lot of our content out of the Community Development Plans, so I see this as a two-way street. (Inaudible.) We speak regularly, just on a personal basis, with both April and with Mikey. MS. LEE LOY: I think this is my final question, and it's related to the graphic on page 19, Trends & Needs. You bulleted Puna and Kd`u underserved, Road capacity limits, Employment, and I think others have touched on this. I don't see the workforce housing connection to the—and I think it's in the green bubble, where the visitor industry centers are. So I was wondering if any thought was given to, when we're establishing routes, that some of the workforce housing, which is what Ms. Poindexter is talking about, of how the full the busses are because they're getting to work, and establishing those kind of workforce housing routes to the work or areas of urban cores or urban centers where the businesses are. MS. SOON: This graphic came from the General Plan book. Page 24 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. LEE LOY: Okay. MS. SOON: One of their technical studies, which is a slightly different question than what you're asking. You're asking us to make sure that we are addressing where the workers are and what jobs they're going to, yeah? The origin destination pattern for that. MS. LEE LOY: Umhmm. MS. SOON: And in part, are you also asking, "Am I aware of new origins where workforce housing's being built?" Is that the question? MS. LEE LOY: Yes, but—or just being mindful of it. Because what we're seeing, and I'm sure other Council Members can speak to this, is that a lot of the housing for people who are working are in our rural communities, like Puna, but the jobs are in Waikoloa. So we had this very lengthy discussion about fuel tax and how far people were driving. MS. SOON: Yeah. MS. LEE LOY: And so I was just hoping, if as we emerge through some of this final product, that we could see some consideration for that as a planning tool with the trends and the markets and the housing cost. Because we all know that we can afford a home in Puna but not so much in Waiki`i Ranch. MS. SOON: Yes, I'd like to be able to do that. And in part, I'm thinking, how can I support you as you move forward with your housing policies, that you want people to live closer to jobs. You don't want them all on long distance runs, and it makes for a more effective transportation system, or quality of life, et cetera. I may not be able to solve that. But let me put comments into the plan that help support policies, that we create a closer connection between jobs and housing. Is that fair? MS. LEE LOY: That's excellent because we as a policy-making body would love to know what we have to amend or what type of language or what type of statutory connections we have to make to our existing Land Use policies, goals, and objectives, so that all of this dovetails very nicely together. I'm reminded of something we're working on with the Real Property Tax reform. There was an appraisal done, and they gave us a checklist of all the different policies that had to be amended by this body to make that real property reform work. So having that type of matrix so we can go get ready and legislatively set those cornerstones so that funding becomes available or the corridors are earmarked in the General Plan or in the CDPs, that helps us. I really do see all our Page 25 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 entire island using this as a nexus to really connect the entire island—so when you go through this and get your feedbacks. MS. SOON: Thank you for raising that. It also reinforces the messages that Curt's been giving me since he came. He's done a lot, of being out in the field and talking to people, and personally meeting with the complaint. It's used—which are articulate and heartfelt, and saying we've got to help these people. They're having to walk with the grocery bags for 20 blocks. Can hub -and -spoke solve this? Or they're taking this long distance commute, and that's just really hard on them. Curt has, since we've had the opportunity to start working with him, has really continually brought forward that human piece of it. But it reminds me very much of what you're saying, as well. Thank you. MS. LEE LOY: I yield. CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: I believe Mr. Richards was first. CHR. RUGGLES: Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. Again captioning the data and listening to other Council men and women, Ms. Lee Loy, the current ridership, routes, has the data been captured as far as the ridership, the timelines that they're riding with? I'm going with this question, in my district which is District 9, the resorts, the complaints that I've heard is that the busses are not running in the timelines that fit the shift changes; and the ridership for some of the shift changes, I guess I should say, the busses are beyond capacity, so unless you're getting on the bus early on, there's no point getting on the bus because there's no room. Has information been gathered, or if not, can it be gathered because I think that's going to be important? MS. SOON: We'll get more from that in the public meetings. Sure, but it's a little different than what we are asking. The schedules for those commuter runs to the hotels in your districts were meant to meet the shift changes. If they're not, it's because the busses are not meeting schedule. And they actually have sufficient turn -around time at the end. You probably maybe notice them going to the harbor while they're waiting for their turn -around time—should make the beginning of the route on time. I guess we'll have to look into it a little more closely, what's actually going on there. But we believe that the commuter runs to the hotels were designed correctly for the shifts and that any complaint in that regard would be because the busses aren't able to meet the schedule that was established. Either they're picking up too many people or they're running into obstacles along the road, construct project, or Page 26 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 whatever it may be. So let us look into that some more, than being beyond capacity. Meaning—if you noticed my goal early on, was everybody get a set, that's often the goal, and that's not happening, which I think is what you mean by over capacity. MR. RICHARDS: Right. MS. SOON: Yes. MR. RICHARDS: If you haven't, you may want to consider reaching out to resort management and labor unions, because that's where I'm hearing the complaints. MS. SOON: Thank you. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. I yield. CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. O'Hara, did you still want to ask a question? MS. O'HARA: Yes. Thank you, Chair. I just want to reiterate or iterate that our current ridership alone is not sufficient to drive the development of our future Mass Transit system. As Mr. Richards said, many in his district are no longer riding the bus because of bad experiences and I hear the same in my district. So we really need to get a broader public input. I'm going to keep on pressing on that. You said the first meeting was October 91h. Where's that going to be held? MS. SOON: Kona. MS. O'HARA: In Kona. And do you have the other three meetings scheduled? MS. SOON: Yeah, the next two are October 11 and 12; 11th in Kea`au, and 12th in Pahoa, and the 19th in Waimea. The locations: Kona, is at the West Hawaii Civic Center; Kea`au, is at the Kea`au Community Center; and Pahoa, is at the Pdhoa Neighborhood facility; Waimea, is at the Waimea Elementary School. We're still trying to firm up Hilo. Hilo will be the last one. MS. O'HARA: Oh, okay. So I was jut going to say you didn't have one in Hilo. Good. That sounds— MS. SOON: We're still trying to firm that up. MS. O'HARA: (Inaudible) Hamakua is— MS. SOON: Kd`u. Page 27 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. O'HARA: Or Kd`u either. You just can't draw people out of Kd`u to come to Pdhoa or Kea`au, and you won't get them to come to Hilo from Hdmdkua. You kind of have to go to the population in those districts in order to have any kind of public dialogue, so just a thought about that. And maybe working with the Council Members to have special small meetings for those areas. I like the fact that you said you'll be giving different scenarios to us. I understand that affordability is going to ultimately be an issue. But I like to have that kind of sensitivity analysis, where we can look at different levels of service. I am interested in the life, a cycle cost analysis. If we can ever get to that point, that would be really great to show, as well. I know I saw a reference letter written by Ms. Ruggles for a grant for Mass Transit. I'm not sure who prepared that, but it was submitted. That's really excellent to get in that type of effort because I do believe that with our socio-economic status on the Big Island for most of our districts we should be eligible for funding. MS. SOON: There were actually three grants submitted in the past month. MS. O'HARA: Three grant applications? MS. SOON: One was a discretionary grant program for equipment. MS. O'HARA: Great. MS. SOON: Last year they funded one out of every three applicants. But that's okay. We are the only one from Hawaii applying so that probably helps us to some extent. MS. O'HARA: Good, good. MS. SOON: And that was an application for six of the vans, which is—remember—I'm stating the obvious, but the lifespan, life cycle cost of a van is much, much shorter than the big bus. MS. O'HARA: Right. MS. SOON: It's in the neighborhood of six, seven, eight years. In the application, you had to state which busses you're retiring. You had busses that were over 15—I mean vans, over 15 years and over 400,000 miles. They have a lifespan like your car. Really, they take a beating. So this is going to be ranked high in terms of the criteria that they look at. MS. O'HARA: Sounds good. Page 28 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. SOON: The other two are your former 5311 funds for operating assistance and for capital. MS. O'HARA: Excellent. You had said earlier, when we were on the slide, Recommended Goals to Achieve the Vision, to ask you more about use of transit as a tool and transportation hubs. We talked a little bit about transportation hub. Not exactly their locations, but that's going to be another issue in terms of acquiring the property, if necessary, and (inaudible) said hubs. What is the real meaning of Goal Three, the use of transit as a tool? MS. SOON: Curt might want to say a little more because he's very excited at the opportunities that hubs present. I will say this, that sometimes—we have started hubs, what we call "on street hubs," we're using both sides. In fact the city of Kapolei, on Oahu, it's hub is an on -street hub, just picking up on different sides of the street. But the technical meaning of hub, is that the long haul meets up with the circulators and you do a transfer. Now, when we go out to the public and explain this, some of them are not going to like that you know. It's not as universally loved because they say, "You mean I have to transfer; I have to take two busses not one? What if one breaks down and I don't make it to the other?" We'll get some pushback, some sort of almost trust issues in terms of our ability to make the time meet them. They're going to want to know, "What am I waiting in, am I waiting in the rain, am I waiting in the dark, is there going to be light?" So the features that we put into hubs are going to matter in terms of willingness to drop their daughter off to wait for it versus— MS. O'HARA: Being that we have a lot of rain here, too. MS. SOON: Amen. Amen. So those—we'll get pushed back on some of these concepts. But it is our responsibility to explain the concept, which I gather most of the Council understands. But it is not universally understood, we're going to explain that and why it's an advantage. And we'll give them two types of rides. Instead of just a commuter ride, it gives them a circulator when they're community, and allows them to connect to an adjacent community throughout the day. MS. O'HARA: Okay. MR. SHARP: That's what was meant by the tool. We can use that, as Cheryl said, in variations of how we're going to produce and implement different types of services based upon the requirements, and that's going to have to be fairly flexible. MS. O'HARA: Yeah, definitely. Alright, I appreciate all that. I think that wraps up most of my questions for the time being. Page 29 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. SOON: Well, we look forward to seeing some of you at those community meetings. I know you have Sunshine Law issues. But however you can figure that out, right? CHR. RUGGLES: Go ahead, Ms. David. MS. DAVID: Thank you. And I just want to thank you for the presentation. And then just a reminder that I really believe that Ka`u should be included in those public meetings. Because Ocean View, there's a lot of people in Ocean View that have to commute, and the choice they have is either drive and pay an extreme exorbitant amount of gas or catch the bus. Right now, I think the schedule, like everyone is saying, needs to be looked at and addressed so that more people can ride the bus. Just a suggestion that you will MS. SOON: Okay, thank you. We'll work with you about location and timing. MS. DAVID: Thank you. I appreciate it. And yeah, thank you. CHR. RUGGLES: Anyone else? MR. SHARP: Can I just add something, too? I met—I've forgotten his name, I should remember. I met with one of the doctors out there at the hospital because he was having problems with his patients from there back to their homes or going to Hilo hospital, right, in regular bus schedules. So we had a nice long talk about that whole area in terms of transportation. It was good. It was enlightening. MS. DAVID: And that's in Pahala. So, yeah, Pdhala, that's even further south of where I—of Na`alehu and Ocean View, so it's huge. Thank you for saying that because it has been an ongoing issue at the hospital. MS. LEE LOY: They're using the Fire Department, I think, ambulance to go out and pick people up and bring them to the hospital, as well, and transporting them to Hilo. MS. DAVID: Yes, and some of the service providers, too, as much as they can. But that's limited, also, and so we have—thank you. Mahalo for mentioning that. CHR. RUGGLES: Does anyone else have questions? Alright, my turn. One of the things that struck me was that you said that 84.5 percent of the riders that you surveyed were dependent on the bus and 35 percent of those said that they could get a ride if they had to. That means that 50 percent of the people riding the bus have no choice and they have no other option. MS. SOON: In reality I think that 36 percent maybe could get a ride once or twice but not all the time. Page 30 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 CHR. RUGGLES: Right. MS. SOON: So yeah, you have a very, very high dependency. CHR. RUGGLES: Regarding the public workshops, I think Ms. O'Hara brought up a really, really excellent idea, which would increase our participation. Also, the scope of the service that you do, in getting accurate results on demand and service, which is doing that, that survey monkey, and that's something you could do through us. That we could really put out there because a lot of us have a really strong online following. MS. SOON: Great. CHR. RUGGLES: So if we can increase that public voice in this Master Plan in any way, I think we should— MS. SOON: Fabulous. Partnership is what makes things succeed, so thank you, all of you. CHR. RUGGLES: I read the Master Plan when I first got in office in December, and I met with Tiffany about it. Three point five of the public process tasks says that you will contact elected officials to coordinate this public process prior to the community meetings, at the start of the project and at the end of the project. That's actually in the contract. So, please, utilize us. Another thing is, you said there's going to be two rounds of meetings. One—the first round is going to be a reaction to the current level of service? MS. SOON: No, we will be making—we will be giving a presentation about all the findings and trends and what have you, and we will give our initial proposals for service improvements and get a reaction to that. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. And then the second round will be the same except for the amended proposal. MS. SOON: Well we will have made changes based on their input, and then we'll have the capital plan and financial plan. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, excellent. Okay, and the fixed route establishment, could you rate on what it would take to establish a fixed route? MS. SOON: Well, how do I describe this? Any route can be classified as a commuter or fixed route. So we're just taking people in the morning or certain route to the reso3rts. You'll probably always want to continue that as being a Page 31 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 commuter route. The question is, if we start a service as part of hub -and -spokes between Puna and Hilo and that goes all day long, from let's say six until eight or something like that, that's going to be a fixed route and then that clicks you in to your service. Even though you have some commuter service, it's going to click you into the fixed route system, geographically. CHR. RUGGLES: So anything that is regular is a fixed route? MS. SOON: Yes, anything that's going throughout the day and not just during a commuter time. CHR. RUGGLES: Is going throughout the day and not just during a commuter time? MS. SOON: Yes. CHR. RUGGLES: So what would be a commuter time? MS. SOON: Well, it varies. In your district, it's starting pretty early. We have a route—we have routes going in the morning in order to meet—I don't know—the first shift, and then we have a second one coming for the second shift, and then we have the returns. So you have a system whose schedule is already oriented to the shifts at the hotels versus one that's trying to get you to Hilo, or to Kona, or Waimea for whatever purpose when one who wants to ride it. CHR. RUGGLES: So would the difference between a commuter route and fixed route have to be whether or not the route is oriented to hotels? MS. SOON: No, it's oriented to jobs. CHR. RUGGLES: Oriented to jobs. So the commuter route would be oriented to jobs? MS. SOON: Correct. MS. O'HARA: Chair, if I may? I think we might be misnaming some of our routes in Puna as commuter routes, when they're really just fixed routes. I think this may be what we've done through the years, and I think that's kind of what you were into meaning. It's really—it's somewhat subjective. Many of the people riding the early morning bus aren't necessarily coming to a job. They may be coming to school. I don't know if that's considered commuter or what, but it may be that they're just misnamed. CHR. RUGGLES: So who makes that determination of what's a fixed route and a commuter route? Page 32 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. SOON: Well, the MTA, the County does, and after this Master Plan process you may find that we're renaming them and giving additional services, as well. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, thanks. I'm pleased that (inaudible) be proposing a hub in Puna, and that you think it's a part of the needs if there's additional frequency in the a.m. and the p.m. It also says, plus service beyond just commuter service. Does that just mean more fixed routes? What does that mean? MS. SOON: Well, for example we'll be recommending circulators in the district to bring people from where they live to the hub. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. Sorry, could you repeat that? MS. SOON: We will be recommending circulators in different subsections of Puna, to bring them from where they live to that hub. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. MS. SOON: Where they can then transfer to a bus that can take—the larger busses, what you need in order to give everyone a seat cannot go into a lot of those subdivisions, but the smaller vans can. So the smaller van would be circulating around, picking up people, bringing them to the hub where they would transfer on to the longer haul service. MR. SHARP: So it's like an accordion effect, yeah? They get the big bus to go from Hilo to Puna, it drops off at the hub, and then from there we've got smaller busses that take them out to satellites. And then eventually, get to a point where we might go even further than that with another set of busses that go to the second or third satellite. If you remember the discussion in Puna, that's where Uber and Lyft came in, yeah? CHR. RUGGLES: Right. MR. SHARP: Okay. CHR. RUGGLES: So under this assessment line, you sort of gave an overview of what you thought the other different districts needed. For Kona it says new routes; alignment changes to serve residences in South Kohala; off -route services in North Kohala. So all of those are not included in the Puna part. So does that mean you've determined that Kona needs more new routes than Puna? MS. SOON: No. Some of those—by the way, what is needed came from what was stated in the Community Development Plans, in the community plans. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, so how—I guess, I'm wondering— Page 33 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 MS. SOON: On how we determine what to recommend? CHR. RUGGLES: Yeah, because if it each has different recommendations and trends and needs by district here. MS. SOON: I didn't try to be as comprehensive as possible, but we were trying to demonstrate to you that we are looking at district differences and needs. There will come a time when the public will come back to us and saying evening service is far more important than weekend service or getting those circulators is more important to us than having a third bus going to the hotels. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, so the fact that you put for Hamakua, they need park and ride locations, it doesn't necessarily mean that they need park and ride locations more than Kd`u? MS. SOON: No. There was no attempt to prioritize it between districts. CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. Well, that—oh actually—yeah, that answers all of my questions. Thank you. Thank you for your patience, everybody. May I have a motion to file—oh excuse me, all those in favor of filing Communication 412 please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 412: The motion to close file on Comm. 412 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair Ruggles - 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Chung - 1. Excused: None. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. (There were none.) BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) Page 34 PSMTC-4 September 6, 2017 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 4:55 p.m., Ms. Poindexter moved to adjourn MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Ms. David and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair Ruggles - 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Chung - 1. Excused: None. CHR. RUGGLES: We are adjourned. Thank you. Approved: 74 Ms. JeAvi/ ler Ruggles, Chair Public afety and Mass Transit Committee JR/na Iz--l— I? (Date) Page 35