HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2017/06/06 2016-2018COMMITTEE ON FINANCE
121h Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
June 6, 2017
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at
ORDER: 9:08 a.m. in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair.
R(1T T CAT r
Present: Ms.
Maile Medeiros David, Chair
Ms.
Karen Eoff, Vice Chair
Mr.
Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Mr.
Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member
Ms.
Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Ms.
Eileen O'Hara, Member (came in later)
Ms.
Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Mr.
Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member
Ms.
Jennifer Ruggles, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called
by the Chair:
Matt Clark:
(representing Na Mamo
O Kawa)
James J. Akau:
(representing Na Mamo
O Kawa)
Linnette Sawyer:
(representing Hawaiian Acres)
Tom Cumming:
Res. 214-17 (Comm. 294), in support.
Res. 214-17 (Comm. 294), in support.
Res. 219-17(Comm. 301), comment.
Res. 219-17 (Comm. 301), in support.
CHR. DAVID: Okay, I think we should move on to Communications. Mr. Clerk.
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman?
FC -12 June 6, 2017
CHR. DAVID: Yes, Mr. Chung?
Point of Personal MR. CHUNG: Just as a point of personal privilege
Privilege:
CHR. DAVID: Sure.
MR. CHUNG: Would you be able to take Resolution 219-17 out of order because
I have to leave?
CHR. DAVID: Okay.
MR. CHUNG: And I wanted to weigh in on that resolution.
CHR. DAVID: Okay, great. Alright. If it's okay with everyone, Mr. Chung's
requesting that we take 219 out of order? Okay, Mr. Clerk, please.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following item was taken out of order:
Res. 219-17: AUTHORIZES THE HAWAII COUNTY COUNCIL THE OPTION TO
DESIGNATE A PORTION OF THE COUNTY'S FUEL TAX ALLOCATION
TO BE UTILIZED FOR A GRANT-IN-AID PROGRAM FOR NONPROFIT
HOMEOWNER AND ROAD MAINTENANCE CORPORATIONS OR
ASSOCIATIONS FOR THE PURPOSE OF ROAD REPAIR AND
MAINTENANCE FOR PRIVATE STREETS AND ROADWAYS THAT
SERVE AS MAIN THOROUGHFARES REGULARLY USED BY THE
Provides that State law allows for fuel tax monies to be used for improvements,
repair and maintenance of certain private roadways; and would authorize the
Council to establish a fuel tax grant-in-aid program, and form an ad hoc
committee of its membership to create rules and procedures for the program; set
forth the process, general criteria and qualifications for applicants; and oversee
the awarding of grant applications.
Reference: Comm. 301
Intr. by: Ms. O'Hara
Motion to Approve: Ms. Ohara moved to recommend adoption of Res. 219-17.
Seconded by Ms. Ruggles.
CHR. DAVID: Ms. O'Hara.
MS. O'HARA: Okay, I know this could and can become a little controversial so
I'm going to give some background here, and I hope the Chair can accommodate?
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CHR. DAVID: Sure.
MS. O'HARA: As Mr. Cumming expressed, and the other testifier, we have in
many of the Puna subdivisions nothing but private roads. I don't have an estimate
and I would love DPW (Department of Public Works), if they can, at some point
do an estimate of how many miles of the roads in Puna are private versus public.
We've only got a couple State highways, 11 and 130. Every other major street is
mostly County except for some of the main boulevards of our major subdivisions,
which are still in private hands and they're open to the public, and they do serve
as corridors to get somewhere else. It is falling on the shoulders of the
homeowners' associations to manage what has become a debilitating expense for
the homeowner associations of Puna.
We've all heard of the disparities in the Puna district, which were established
because of some really bad Land Use policies that transpired years ago. None of
us here are responsible for those policies or for those actions, but we have the
results.
I have attempted to look through State law, and to be quite honest I find State law
a little bit conflicted on this issue, and I have several examples. But first I'd like
to read to you from the statute, 243-6, on Fuel Tax Dispositions.
Another thing I'd like to say about this resolution, is it's somewhat predicated on
us raising fuel taxes, which we don't and haven't done at this point in time. We
are presented with that resolution tomorrow at our Council meeting, and we'll see
what happens there. But that given that there is a "big ask," coming from the
administration to increase fuel taxes, I figured this is a good time to float this
request to use a small portion of that money for maintenance of private roads.
We're looking at, if we pass the fuel tax that the Mayor has proposed, of
$9 million windfall to Highway Funds. I would envision a small percentage of
that, very, very small percentage of that, being made available for a grant-in-aid
program for subdivisions who are in a position to apply and repair roads. All this
resolution does is set up a structure, an ad hoc committee to develop that structure
for the grant-in-aid program so all of the details need to still be worked out. But,
that's the original plan.
But anyhow, getting back to the statute on fuel tax dispositions, it says, "for
acquisition, designing, construction, reconstruction, improvement, repair,
maintenance of county main and general thoroughfares, highways, and other
streets, street lights, storm drains, and bridges, including costs of new land and
therefor, when expenditures for the foregoing purposes cannot be financed under
state -federal aid projects." So, in other words, the only monies that we can spend
on other streets are those through the fuel tax. That's what it's telling us. So,
based on that, I would like to move this resolution forward to Council; I ask for
your support on that. We can have a broader debate on some of the other issues
that this might raise, when it hits Council, since we're just at the Committee level,
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and we haven't yet dealt with the fuel tax question. So, I would ask for your
support in moving this forward. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. For the time just before we entertain
discussions, if it's okay with Mr. Chung, I'm going to call you first, but I'd like to
have Corp. Counsel come up to the table.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
CHR. DAVID: Good morning, Mr. Kamelamela.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Good morning, Chair and members of the County
Council. My name is Joseph Kamelamela, Corporation Counsel.
CHR. DAVID: Okay, thank you. And before we start discussion, I just wanted
because I think this has a bearing on our discussions after I start the Council, it is
my understanding that public funds could not be used for private roadways
maintenance. So, based on that, I just wanted to hear from you first because I
think that might have a bearing on what we discuss.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Shall I give a short answer or a long one?
CHR. DAVID: A short answer because I believe Mr. Chung is going to carry on
our discussions first.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Short answer is, if I understand your question, question
was can we use public funds for private road construction, maintenance? Correct,
cannot use public funds for private roads, but there are exceptions.
CHR. DAVID: Okay, so that's what I wanted to actually start the discussion out
with, your comments first, and then now, Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: I want to hear what the exception is.
CHR. DAVID: Oh, okay. He wants to hear the exceptions.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Let's just begin generally. Okay, generally under the
State's Constitution and also statutes and the County ordinances that we have, in
order to use public funds in a certain way there has to be a public purpose. So
clearly, under the laws that I've read, public funds cannot be used for private
roads.
There are exceptions. One of the exceptions that we're used to, and I'll put it in
three categories. One is, Civil Defense Emergency, that's one of the clear
exceptions.
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The other one is dedication. Like, we pass one ordinance for a subdivision and so
there's certain requirements that we put on for street and roads. And, if the
developer meets the dedicable standards, that we have in our ordinance, then we
bring a resolution, a resolution here, to the County Council, to accept the roadway
in that way. That's through dedication.
And then, the last way is condemnation. It's either generated by the Mayor. I've
seen one resolution that was generated by the County Council. And then, under
the statute, under Section 264-1, we can have a petition by owners to move
forward for condemnation. Those are the only ways, currently.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, I'm ready.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Okay, thank you.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, so basically under the Fuel Tax State law, cannot use
County monies for non -County highways?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Correct.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Now let me tell you what my journey has been. I've got
three minutes to say this. First of all, I applaud
CHR. DAVID: You have five.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, I have five. I applaud Ms. O'Hara for advancing this idea
because it's similar to what I had been thinking about, so at least I know we have
allies on this. It's going to affect Ms. Poindexter's district, your district,
everybody's district, something like this. Mr. Richard's district, too. The major
constraint is the State law. The State law specifically
CHR. DAVID: Prohibit.
MR. CHUNG: Well, it doesn't prohibit, it just authorizes these fuel tax monies to
only be used for County highways and projects, and things like that. So, what we
did during the last Legislative Session I did talk to Senator Kai Kahele. He was
willing, and I think he actually drafted something, but I kind of looked at it and I
didn't really like the look of it because it could have really caused a lot of
problems for the County. But he is willing to look at legislation to allow for the
use of fuel tax monies on private lands upon certain conditions, okay? I guess one
of the conditions that we were talking about is, you have to have a certain level of
fuel taxes generated from the County. So, in other words, we couldn't do it with
our eight percent, or nine percent, or whatever it was. It had to be beefed up to a
certain threshold amount, if not, it would be unfair to the taxpayers, right, to use
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monies on private lands when they're supposed to be devoted to County
properties.
The other thing that we're thinking about, is maybe no more than five percent.
Some kind of percentage can be used on private roads, and then it would be upon
the County and the administration to work out things.
So, I'm with you on the idea. I think most of us are supportive. This is a new
time. We want to help people on private subdivisions, but right now we're
constrained by what's contained in the State law. We've got to work this process
through at the State Legislature. I've got to go. I think what we should do is just
defer this, really. But it's a great idea, I'm supportive of it.
MS. O'HARA: Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Ruggles. Thanks, Aaron.
MS. RUGGLES: I'll yield for now.
CHR. DAVID: Okay, Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, I think this is a great idea. I think all of the Hamakua
district would love to see this, as well, because through the demise of the sugar
industry, throughout the coastline, my coastline, we have inherited all private
roads.
Unfortunately, one of the testifiers said that only 10 percent of the people that live
there pays for the road. That's so unfortunate, because luckily I know in my
community, in `O`okala, they have to. Or, if they're behind on payments, we
have clauses in there that we could even go through a foreclosure, I mean, to that
extent, or they would have to pay their road fee if they're not paying into the
maintenance. So, it's unfortunate that only 10 percent. I'm hoping that maybe
somehow that community can get together to encourage the others to see how
important it is to put into the road fees, up until the time that we can make sure
that the County could help us. I don't know to what extent. I've been telling my
community members, throughout the coastline, "I wish we could." They keep
saying, "Can we bring it up to dedicable standards, and then can the County take
it over?" At that point, I told them, "I don't even know if they would because I
don't know if they're accepting any more on their inventory, and can we manage
it?"
So anyway, I support the idea. At this point, right now I don't think we're ready
for it. So, I would ask that it be deferred because I'd like to get more information
on how many subdivisions throughout District 1 is all private roads. And I see
Mr. De Marco there, so I'm hoping that he's taking note on that; that if we could
check on the private roads in District 1 because I know that we have a lot. In fact,
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even the roads -in -limbo, more than 50 percent of the roads -in -limbo on this entire
island is in District 1. A lot of hand-me-downs from the plantation time. So,
thank you. And, I yield at this time.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Ms. O'Hara.
MS. O'HARA: This brings up a lot of good points.
CHR. DAVID: Oh, I'm sorry. First round, can I take Ms. Ruggles? Sorry.
MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. First, I'd like to just say that I really appreciate
Council Member O'Hara bringing this to the table. I think it's a good solution, if
we can work out the legal kinks to make it possible.
Currently, Puna has an unprecedented amount of publicly traveled private roads.
The associations do not have the resources that they need to maintain these roads.
Of course, these publicly traveled private roads were approved before the
Subdivision Code, but the County did approve of them, and the people who are
living there now have to make up for that. To me, it doesn't seem fair for the
residents to have to make up for bad Land Use policy on behalf of the County, so
I think this is a good way to help and a good way to take responsibility for that on
the County's part.
Another point, that these roads are not private. There's no gate on them. They
are publicly traveled. Emergency vehicles do use them. Police uses them. The
police give out seatbelt tickets in Hawaiian Acres. People are only going 10 miles
an hour, that's as fast as they can go. Fire uses them and our medical services use
them, and it's very difficult for them to get in and out.
The residents who live there do not have equal access to these emergency
services, as other residents in other areas. A lot of times residents can't get in and
out of their homes. The County, as a government, it's our responsibility to
provide for public, health, and safety of people who live here.
So, I'm 100 percent in support of this. I think that we should figure out every
possible way so that we could be supporting the associations because, currently,
they do not have the resources they need to provide for a lot of the residents that
live in Puna. A lot of residents live in Puna—there are a lot of residents on this
island, 25 percent. So, yeah, I encourage my colleagues to help find a way to
work this through. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Ruggles. Ms. O'Hara, can I just go to
Mr. Richards first? Thank you. Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thank you. And I think this is a good idea because we
have such a wide array of roads, that no one even really knows who they belong
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to. I have one road in Kohala that doesn't even qualify to be a road -in -limbo, and
I've already talked to Director DeMarco about that. It's there. There's a lot of
people that live on it, and no one seems to know anything about it. I do support
this, but I think we've got some homework to do before we get it done.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. O'Hara? Oh, Ms. Lee Loy, did
you want to—go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I just have a whole lot of thoughts going on. Because I
want to help. And something that Ms. O'Hara—Ms. Ruggles, just touched on,
which is the public services, like our Police and Fire that are using private roads.
I actually think that's a good nexus, but I still think there's a lot of heavy lifting
that has to happen for all of these things to come together. With edits with our
State law, Planning Department, and Public Works Department, and forgive me
because I'm just thinking out loud right now, but with the road right-of-ways and
how we get there, and then if there's a way toI know a number of these
associations have road maintenance fees, and maybe leveraging that with the fuel
tax money to really get something going. I mean, I have a whole bunch of
thoughts.
I like this first. I still think we have a lot of ways to go. I would support a
deferral, and more work on figuring out those next steps so that we could make
this a priority during our Legislative Session next year. Making sure that ourI
think it's Chapter 22 or 3, which is our roads, complement what we're trying to
achieve. I think there's a number of things that have to come together, and we're
not ready with this. I'm willing to help and work, and figure that out with some
of the expertise that I have related to development and planning and
understanding how infrastructure has to happen. I'm willing to work with
Ms. O'Hara and Ms. Ruggles.
We heard Mr. Chung talk about Senator Kahele's proposals. I mean, I think
we're all sort of moving in that direction. This is just a little premature, and I
would support a deferral. But, I want to help. That emergency road for
emergency services is a great nexus to start something. That's just my thoughts.
But, I would support a deferral at this time.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? First round,
Mr. Kanuha.
MR. KANUHA: Yeah, in the State level it's been going on every single year, and
they've been trying to pass bills to do exactly what we're trying to do. I know the
Council, over the years, has repealed the—come up with resolutions to ask for
exactly this, to provide help for the private subdivisions, especially in all these
areas that are affected. But I do agree, we definitely got to wait for the State to
come up with a solution.
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But, I appreciate the way that you're going about this. I think it's probably the
best way to do it, in terms of forming the ad hoc and providing ways of
establishing rules and procedures. But, depending upon how the State law defines
and how they move forward with giving us that ability to do that, yeah it is a little
premature, but I think it is a good way to move forward.
Just the basis of providing public funds for private roadways, I'm not completely
sold on it, because it definitely, obviously, got to be used for a public purpose or a
County purpose. But I'm happy to keep the conversation ongoing and talk about
it. But for sure, it is definitely got to be postponed or deferred.
I think this could be a topic to send to HSAC (Hawai`i State Association of
Counties) as a proposal. I know we bat a negative average, but I think it's a good
conversation to have at that level, as well, with the rest of the counties and how
they deal with it too. So, just as an option.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kanuha. Ms. Eoff
MS. EOFF: Thank you. Yes, and I pretty much agree with what's been said so
far. I think the HSAC avenue would be a great opportunity to at least get the
issue more on the forefront along with Senator Kahele willing to work with us.
I actually live on a private road that was created by subdivision, probably in the
60's. We just recently pulled together to form a Water Improvement District,
which means each household contributes to the cost of putting in water for the
subdivision. In doing that, we tried to get the road paved at the same time, since
it's really narrow. The trenches were—it was allowed to repave the trenches
because that was granted, like a County easement, to do this Improvement
District, which is a loan. The County got a loan, and the subdivision people are
paying it back over years. But, they can only pave the trench. We tried really
hard; because the road's s narrow, that when the two sides were—trenches were
paved, there wasn't much left. We thought this would be a great opportunity to
get the road paved because otherwise it's full of potholes and we're always out
there trying to patch them. We tried almost every avenue and couldn't do it.
I like the option of looking into how we can achieve this. I think things are going
to be pretty complex because we do have a lot of private roads, and who will
qualify and how we can determine the amount we can spend that way, and what
public purpose it would—in what situation, it would also need a public purpose.
But I think it's really interesting. I thank you for bringing this up now. I'm not
sure how we want to proceed with that. Think you were next, so you can follow
through on the conversation.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eoff Ms. O'Hara.
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MS. O'HARA: Okay, I appreciate all the comments. And thank you,
Mr. Kamelamela. I will say there have been alternative legal opinions given by
other Corporation Counsels, even here at the County, and across the State by
other counties.
In my experience—because this is a bill that has been before the Legislature, as
Mr. Kanuha mentioned, "multiple years." It seemed like it was on a positive track
in 2013. Some of you were sitting on the Council at the time, you passed a
resolution, that if it passed at the State level, any funds that would be spent on
private roads would be only spent on roads that were used as connector roads. It
read something like that. I don't have it in front of me, so I'm just paraphrasing,
but it was something along those lines. So, this is not a new issue. Like I said,
when I was working on it in 2013, at the State Legislature, I found out that Kauai
was even doing this, under the Emergency Use clause; Maui has exercised it, as
well; or under the dedication clause. There's been stretching. Lots of stretching
on that State law.
I'm not so sure that we're going to have impact. I appreciate that Senator Kahele
is going to take up the banner. But, I'm not so sure about the State, they haven't
relaxed their Sunshine Laws. Sorry, you know what I mean. We are held back by
this. I really think we're looking at a point of sovereignty because we are the only
County that has these massive subdivisions, substandard subdivisions that were
created prior—mostly prior to Statehood, and were allowed to be created with a
lack of infrastructure.
So, I just want to call your attention to some other things. We constantly refer to
this roads -in -limbo. Just so you know that term does not appear in our County
code, and I would like to get us away from using that. This is out of our County
General Plan, from 2005, "In addition, public highways include all roads, alleys,
streets,ways, lanes, bikeways, and bridges, laid on paper and built by the
Territorial State or County governments since 1982. A 1999 State Attorney
General opinion clarified that all public highways are County highways, unless
declared by Chapter 264, HRS, to be under State jurisdiction." So, there's really
no question about these pre-existing roads. I've had this discussion here, in front,
with Public Works, about a particular roadway we call "Old Government Road",
or "Old Government Beach Road," excuse me. I was told that it was a road -in -
limbo, but it's not. It's in our Code in two different places, expressed as a public
road. So, there's a lot of conflict out there about what we're dealing with, in
roads, and I would like us to get on the same page.
I think that it would be great to move this forward, just to do the work with the ad
hoc committee, so that we can really dig to the bottom of some of these
prohibitions. Because in our Puna CDP (Community Development Plan), this is
called for, creating alternative and redundant routes, and we won't be able to get
there unless we can help the subdivisions bring some of these connector roads up
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to a standard where they could be potentially dedicated. That is the catch-22 for
the Puna subdivisions at this point in time.
There is other source of funding. One that I'm very happy with, and I've used in
my subdivision, is the USDA (United States Department of Agriculture). World
Development has ultra-low interest loans for road repair, road development, but
not all of our subdivisions can apply for it because you have to have structure in
your subdivision association. In your road association, you can't have been in
litigation for the last three years, blah, blah, blah, blah. We happen to qualify, and
press the point in my subdivision, but not all of them have access to that fund
money. I wish more would use that.
In combination with a grant-in-aid program, I think we could finally start seeing
some direction with connectivity through the Puna subdivisions; but until we put
in place certain changes, and this is one of them, that's going to be hard to
accomplish.
So, I understand I'm being asked to defer it, but I really think this is a piece of
legislation that we might just want to pass and let the ad hoc committee start
doing its job. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Anyone else? Ms. Ruggles.
MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. I agree with Ms. O'Hara on all those points. I just
wanted to bring up—Council Member Poindexter mentioned how she wishes
more than 10 percent could pay the fees. At least within the Hawaiian Acres
Association, we really wish that it could be that simple. But with the history of
these associations, there's a lot of conflict and a lot of mismanagement. They're
very dysfunctional. There's not a lot of accountability, there's not a lot of
transparency, and there's not good accounting. People don't know where their
road fees are going. There's missing money, there's lawsuits. Something needs
to change and something needs to give. So, I just wanted to bring that perspective
to the table because I do think it's pertinent. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Ruggles. Anyone else? No? Oh, Ms. Eoff
MS. EOFF: Thank you. I would support the formation of an ad hoc committee to
investigate the possibilities. But the way this is worded
CHR. DAVID: Right.
MS. EOFF: I'm not sure if I could support it in this resolution. So, I would
think, if you could, given what we've been hearing today, bring another resolution
that just focused on support—formation of an ad hoc committee and don't contain
it into the rest of all of this. Then I think we would be okay to support doing that,
and it would give the committee a task and hopefully lead to some solutions.
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CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eoff Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, I guess the Be It Further, Be it Resolved, one of the
Be It Resolved. Oh, the first Be It Resolved on the second page, where it says,
"that the approval of this resolution authorizes a percentage of fuel tax revenues
to be utilized for a grant-in-aid," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I don't think we're
ready for that portion yet, this soon. I think if you wouldI don't mind pushing
it to the Council level, which holds my feet to the fire; but, if this could be
amended in some way, and then at that Council meeting defer it while you create
that ad hoc committee. But, it keeps us moving on that. I would love to sit on
that, as I have so many communities that have been calling and asking for years,
since I've been in office, for help with that. It's publicly used roads, and not
gated, no gates up in those private areas that I'm talking about. More of the
there are some gated communities throughout my community, which they can
afford to take care of their roads, but there's a lot of people, through the demise of
the sugar industry that are struggling, and having to live with the roads that they
have or put in money to try and get it patched, at least.
So, I'm willing to move it up to Council while you make an amendment or
amendments, as you hear from the other Council Members. Then at that point,
whether you postpone it or just defer on certain date, until we can get the ad hoc
committee together working, and working with the—and we really don't need an
ad hoc committee. You could get just some kind of task force going that doesn't
have to be part of this group, so long that we don't have more than two people on
the Council working on it. You can have community members throughout the
County get together as a task force. You could lead that. I don't know, however
you want to set it up, I will support you on this because I too have a concern about
the private roads. So, thank you, Eileen, for bringing this forward.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. I would disagree with our Councilwoman
concerning the ad hoc. I think the ad hoc is the right venue for it to go. I do agree
with the task force. I think the ad hoc is what we need to do. But for the task
force, I think that the ad hoc needs to do the homework first and put the structure
in place.
Case and point, where our Chair talked about the "authorizes a percentage," that's
too vague, and I'm not comfortable with agreeing with that because we don't even
know what that is.
I agree with Councilman Chung, concerning we need to have some sort of
threshold, because what if we don't pass a fuel tax increase? I think there needs
to be a threshold because it's a little bit new frontier. I do support the concept,
but I think we've got to do the homework first. I don't think it's ready for
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June 6, 2017
primetime. I don't think it's time to take it to Council yet. I think it needs to stay
in Committee, get the homework done. I do support the intent, though. I think,
Eileen, it's a really good idea.
I ponder. I listen to you and Jen about Puna and the whole non -maintained roads
out in that area—and yes, we as a County, these are constituents of all of ours,
they are members of our County. That being said, we have to figure out how to
slowly march to make things better there. I think this is a step in the right
direction. But, we've got to get the structure put in before we try and take it up to
Council, because I think we get it to Council and then we'll kick it back down
because it won't be quite ready.
So, I support the intent, I support the ad hoc, but we've got to get the homework
done. And then put the parameters around, what are we talking about? Five
percent, once we hit a threshold of "x" number of dollars or something like that?
I need to see hard numbers before I will approve, but I like the idea.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you, Chair. And I'm going to say what
Mr. Richards said, "It's not ready for primetime."
I have all kinds of ideas that I want to share. Something that Ms. O'Hara just
talked about, with the USDA funding, with the development districts. There are
ways to package this up. All of that funding may still be available because you
guys live in a rural community and would qualify for USDA funding, besides fuel
tax dollars, and leveraging association monies, or whatever different pools of
money there is. We don't want to handcuff you folks, because we pushed
something up that's not ready and hasn't looked at it comprehensively. Because
at the end of the day, I think, still the biggest hurdle is the constitutional part, that
we cannot use public dollars for private roadways. I don't know how to
overcome that. I need more smart people thinking through that.
Just thinking, even bond -floats. We couldn't do a bond float. There's going to be
some things that are completely taken off the table because of our Constitutional
Law and what Hawaii Revised Statute says. So, I want to support a deferral.
Hold it in Committee, let's keep working on it. Come up with language that's not
so vague, because the way it's written now, I cannot support. Because I have so
much running through my head right now. So, thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards, your light is on.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, just kind of a follow-up, listening to
Councilwoman Lee Loy. Maybe there's a way. To rather than be too focused, be
a little bit more broad-spectrum. If this ad hoc committee could include, yeah,
Puna, which is the direction it's going, but I mean what about our other rural
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areas, and if that could be packaged so it would qualify for rural development
funds or something like that? In and of itself any one of the small districts may
not, but comprehensively we may be able to package some stuff I really like that
idea. Maybe that's the way to get some of this done.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. O'Hara.
MS. O'HARA: Okay, I think we've had a good discussion on this.
Mr. Kamelamela, what would happen? I mean, I know besides laying us open to
potential lawsuits from the public, what would happen if we were to pass a
resolution that authorized us to use a portion of our fuel tax on private roads open
to the public?
MR. KAMELAMELA: A resolution like this, right now, it's not legislative, like
in nature, so it really has no force and effect of law. Instead it's going to give the
impression that this is something that the County can do. If you pass something
like this, like right now, the citizens would get the wrong impression that the
Council has authority to use fuel tax monies for private roadways at this time,
without establishing public purpose. So, that's what will happen.
MS. O'HARA: And if we establish the public purpose, what happens?
MR. KAMELAMELA: The public purpose, it has to be kind of defined.
MS. O'HARA: We have lots of definitions in our Code on public purpose.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, but that's why I mentioned the three most viable
way of doing it. It was the emergency situation, the dedication, and the
condemnation.
MS. O'HARA: But these are historic things that have been used. Are there any
new ways of interpreting the law?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Not interpret, there are things that might be able to be
done to move things in a certain direction.
MS. O'HARA: Yeah.
MR. KAMELAMELA: I mean there's always procedures that can be made.
Shall I elaborate one?
MS. O'HARA: Well no, I'm just curious. Because I did read from State law, and
the definition of "other streets" is open, and they refer to streets in the Highway
Fund as well, and it's only in one section that they refer to "public streets."
That's why I'm asking, because it has been interpreted in different ways because
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of the rather, I don't know, vigorous language that's in the Code, the State Code,
so, I'm just kind of curious. Because this has been a difficult issue at the
Legislature, it's been attempted multiple years, I think we started on this one,
when the Puna CDP was being worked on, in 2005, and started a run at the
Legislature back then. So, this isn't something that I expect to have great success
with it at the State Legislature, I'm sorry, we just don't have a good track -record.
So, I'm a little concerned that we're just going to sit here and twiddle our thumbs,
waiting for something to happen. I'm not of that nature, I like to get things done.
MR. KAMELAMELA: I think one of the points of this discussion is the
formation of the ad hoc committee. With the formation of the ad hoc committee,
we tend to delve into many of the issues that had been presented before the State.
But also, check to see what other counties have done in terms of maintenance of
private roadways.
MS. O'HARA: Well, I have done that. Like I said, they have exercised, at least
emergency clauses and dedication clauses to expend money on private roads, in
Maui and in Kauai.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Right, right, right.
MS. O'HARA: But they do not have the situation that we have here. None of the
other counties have the tremendously large substandard subdivisions that we have
here.
MR. KAMELAMELA: I'm in agreement with you because we do have the
Big Island, and then we have at least two or maybe three large subdivisions that I
know are underserved with the substandard roadway. But, from what I hear, the
ad hoc committee would be the best way to kind of delve into many of the
different issues.
MS. O'HARA: Okay. So, let me just check with my fellow Council Members. I
see Mr. Kanuha's lights on. What would you like me to do? Would you like me
to revise this and bring it back to Committee or to Council? How do you feel that
this is best to proceed forward?
CHR. DAVID: Are you asking?
MS. O'HARA: I'm sorry. I'm going to listen to you guys and do whatever you
ask me to do because I want it to stay on the table because we don't want to forget
this.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Then, I will go to Mr. Kanuha first.
MR. KANUHA: No, I think to form an ad hoc committee is great. I just don't
want the ad hoc committee to do a lot of work and then form the procedures and
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June 6, 2017
policies, and the State comes out saying, "This is the format," and how which
the Counties can do that. I don't want to waste anybody's time on an ad hoc
committee.
In terms of—just a little briefly, in terms of like how the State Legislation was
going, our Councils might have been proposing resolutions to send to the State to
urge them to adopt certain policies and rules to allow the Counties to do this, but
you'll have on the other side the opposition from Public Works department, and a
lot of other things, which is why it kind of gets reallyI'm not saying anybody
within this room did that, but previously, throughout the years, that's kind of how
it all happened. Which I understand why the opposition.
How we move forward with this one. I'm just trying to see exactly how the
resolution, currently written, would the force and effect of law. Because as was
stated, it is just a resolution and not really a code change, which would have the
force and effect of law. I'm just trying to figure out how.
MS. O'HARA: Well, just an explanation for that.
MR. KANUHA: Sure.
MS. O'HARA: Because all the fuel tax—arrangements that the County makes
has to be done through resolution.
MR. KANUHA: Okay. And I just want to make sure that the resolution would
give us an authorization through—that will be in right format, okay. Yeah, I have
no idea how to continue but I just wanted to throw in my two -cents. But yeah,
I'm willing to hold the conversation longer to talk about it. But, I just don't want
unnecessary work from an ad hoc committee.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kanuha. Mr. Chung, since you were absent.
MR. CHUNG: Thank you. Yeah, I missed most of the conversation, but you
guys know where I'm coming from on all of this and I'm just surmising based on
what I've heard of the last two speakers. You just want to see what to do next,
right?
I did, as I left the room earlier, I said either hold this in abeyance or just work
with the Legislature. Because I firmly believe we cannot use funds, fuel tax
funds, without some authority or authorization from the Legislature, and that's
confirmed by our Corp. Counsel. Others may differ, you may look at the
language of the fuel tax statute and say, "Actually, there's some wiggle room."
But, I think it's very clear. So, the best thing is work with the Legislature.
I wanted to say, though, that the main pushback we're going to get, is going to be
from the Department of Transportation, the State Department of Transportation,
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June 6, 2017
and they've already stated their opposition to this. But ultimately, it's the
Legislature's call. When you really think about it, the State Department of
Transportation doesn't have that much skin in the game, right? Yeah. They have
a little bit maybe, but not much. They just think, maybe from a public policy
standpoint, we should adhere to the strict principle that public monies can only be
used for public purposes. But therein, this is really, if you take it by extension, it
could be argued that it's a public purpose. But that really is for the Legislature to
decide, there is something in the works. I would behoove anyone who is
interested in this to contact our senator, Kai Kahele, or whoever. He's already on
it. But we decided to hold off on it because what they had prepared, quite frankly,
I didn't think it was real good, and as I stated earlier, "It could have caused a
disaster for us." It was almost counter-productive to what we were trying to
achieve. So I said, "You know what, Kai, maybe we should just hold off on this.
Let's work on this next year." Because they had so much things on their plate this
year, with the revitalization efforts for Hilo. It was just—they were really tied up
in the TAT (Transient Accommodation Tax), so I said, "Why don't we just wait."
Now, I see that there are so many people interested in this. I knew we were going
to get allies from Hamakua, and Puna, and Ka`u, and Waimea. So, let's just do
that. See what we can do.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Councilman asked what direction would—if I ran the circus,
what way can I go? My thoughts are I actually agree with the ad hoc. And
actually, putting the work in now is the right thing to do. Because you set the
stage, you have the homework done, and then we can pull the trigger then it's all
set up, and we have it going forward.
I would like to see the formula, the metrics, whatever in this. If we're going to
use the fuel tax, what percentage, what's the threshold, how much we're going to
use, how are we going to apply it? Build the context of what we would apply this
to, and then also start exploring some of the other possible venues, if we were to
package, I don't know how to say this, roads, or rural districts, or something like
that, that we could form. And then tap into some other funding, and have almost
like a road -in -limbo task force that—whatever—okay, roads in questionable
ownership. But I think you understand my intent, right? But, build metrics. So
again, I do understand the need to do this.
Once again, the common problem, the Big Island is big. We have all these roads,
and we have to figure how to try and do that. If we can package it together, I
think we can become more efficient. But I think do the homework now. Get the
talk -story going now, and get the structure in place.
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June 6, 2017
So if our Legislature supports it and authorizes it, all the better; if they don't, then
we figure out a different alternative. But I think get the homework done now. So,
that would be my suggestion. I yield.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Anyone else commenting on how to
proceed? Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I think we still have a lot more homework.
Not ready for primetime. I would support keeping it in Committee and doing
some more heavy lifting.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much. Anyone else, how to proceed? Is that
everybody basically agrees to that method? Ms. Eoff.
MS. EOFF: Question then. Can we form an ad hoc committee off of this
resolution? I would suggest that another communication would come forward for
the formation of an ad hoc committee, with a little bit more purpose for the
investigative committee. And then, we could form—and let this be deferred or
whatever you choose to do with this particular reso.
CHR. DAVID: Okay. Ms. Ohara, I think if everyone—oh no, everyone's not.
Mr. Chung, go ahead. No, I was just wanting to weigh in before Eileen makes her
decision. Mr. Chung?
MR. CHUNG: Don't put me on that ad hoc committee, okay? I mean, in my
absence you guys might appoint me to that ad committee, right?
CHR. DAVID: Did you have to leave, Mr. Chung?
MR. CHUNG: I think that's going to be too much work for not enough return,
having an ad hoc committee. That's really up to you guys what you want to do.
But I would just suggest, is each of you who are interested, come up with your
own statutory proposals. Like, for example, as I said we already set the
framework. That any County—these funds may be used for private streets on the
condition that the County, that particular County, has a certain level of fuel tax
cents per gallon fee in place and it can be used for no more than, I'm just going to
make this up, two and a half to three percent, maybe up to five percent can be
used on private roads per year and that the allocation shall be done by resolution
of the County Council.
CHR. DAVID: Perfect.
MR. CHUNG: And then just go and present that to Mr. Kahele and all of your
you might be there too pretty soon. So anyway, okay.
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June 6, 2017
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Anyone else before I make my comment
and then go back to Ms. O'Hara? Okay.
I think the suggestion, in my mind, of deferring this until we get more, a lot more
information, especially since the resolution basically authorizes the percentage of
the fuel tax to be utilized for this grant program.
Private roads in my district, I have thousands of miles of private subdivision
roads. I see this as being—as good as this idea is—and I support the idea.
Because in both just the Puna and the Ka`u district in Ocean View, I think we
have thousands of miles of private roads. I see the fuel tax, as Mr. Chung stated,
we have to be very mindful of what we're creating because it will apply to all
private roads and not only in Puna. I think we have to be very mindful and
careful on how we craft an authorization such as this.
So, I thank you for bringing this. Because I've been getting calls too, and I think
what Ms. Ruggles is saying, is another thing that complicates this great idea, is
the fact that we have multiple road maintenance associations that are going to be
demanding that they have some help with this funding. So, I don't know how we
sort that out. I really wish that we do all this, like Mr. Richards and Mr. Chung is
suggesting, we do our homework first because, if not, I think we would put
ourselves in a real difficult position in trying to sort it out after the fact.
So, I would really support a deferral, postpone to the call of the Chair, until we
kind of figure out—Ms. O'Hara, you kind of figured out a direction that we
should all work toward, especially for us that have thousands of miles of private
roads in our district. I would support a deferral or a motion to postpone to the call
of the Chair. Thank you.
MS. O'HARA: Okay. Well thank you, Chair. I will—am willing to defer to the
call of the Chair. I am going to, as a result of this conversation, though, I would
not move to form an ad hoc. I've been working on this for over 10 years. I'm
pretty familiar with the topic. If you read the resolution, we're actually
addressing those concerns about how do you deal with the hundreds, actually
thousands of miles of private roads on the island, and that would be through this
competitive grant-in-aid process. I do agree, and I originally put in five percent,
which was the number that Mr. Chung had thrown out. I had originally put that
in, when I first wrote it, and then I took it out thinking, okay, maybe this needs
more debate by the ad hoc committee. But, that's kind of where I was going as a
cap, just as a cap. So, we're not talking huge dollar amounts.
There would be conditions on the grant-in-aid program, such that matching funds
are required and things like that, and they have to be stature, some sort of 501(c).
Road corporations are generally (c)4, not (c)3. They can also be (c)6s'. So,
you've got to be lenient in that regard.
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The thing that comes up to me from this discussion, is that I need a definition of
"public purpose" that ties into the three uses, that Mr. Kamelamela was referring
to; because this is really about emergencies and services in Puna, where we are
already so underserved. So, I want to try and develop a definition of "public
purpose" that ties us into that.
I will also ask for the AG's (Attorney General) opinion on definition of "other
streets." I read that from the fuel tax highways statute, since that just hangs out
there and we don't know if that, the reference is to public or private streets. I
think it would behoove to ask for an AG's opinion on that. So, those are things
that I would move forward on, but I will continue to focus on this issue.
As far as other plans, I've done other plans with subdivisions. There are some
problems because of the nature of the homeowner and road maintenance
corporations. But, we will continue to work this forward. I am happy to defer at
the call of the Chair. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Was that a motion to defer, I mean to postpone to the
call of the Chair?
MS. O'HARA: Sorry, that's a motion to postpone to the call of the Chair.
Vote on Motion to: Ms. O'Hara moved to postpone Res. 219-17 to the call
Postpone: of the Chair. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried
(Approved) by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David - 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Okay, I think we'll move forward.
Mr. Clerk, can you please start at the top? Communication 14.12, please.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business.
of Business:
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 14.12: REPORT OF CHANGE ORDERS AUTHORIZED: APRIL 1 - 15, 2017
From Finance Director Collins Tomei, dated May 2, 2017, transmitting the
above report pursuant to Hawaii County Code Section 2-12.3.
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Vote on Comm. 14.12
Filed
Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 14.12.
Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards,
and Chair David - 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Ruggles - 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Communication 14.13.
June 6, 2017
Comm. 14.13: REPORT OF CHANGE ORDERS AUTHORIZED: APRIL 16 - 30, 2017
From Finance Director Collins Tomei, dated May 18, 2017, transmitting the
above report pursuant to Hawaii County Code Section 2-12.3.
Vote on Comm. 14.13: Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 14.13.
Filed Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards,
and Chair David - 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Ruggles - 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Communication 15.8.
Comm. 15.8: REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: APRIL 16 - 30, 2017
From Controller Kay Oshiro, dated May 3, 2017.
Vote on Comm. 15.8: Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 15.8.
Filed Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards,
and Chair David - 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Ruggles - 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Communication 15.9.
Page 21
FC -12 June 6, 2017
Comm. 15.9: REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: MAY 1 - 15, 2017
From Controller Kay Oshiro, dated May 17, 2017.
Vote on Comm. 15.9: Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 15.9.
Filed Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards,
and Chair David - 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Ruggles - 1.
Excused: None.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, please, Resolution 214-17. Before you read that,
could I relinquish the chair to Vice Chair Eoff? This would be my resolution.
And read it in, thank you.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair David relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Eoff
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, I've assumed the chair. And we're on
Resolution 214-17, may I have a motion to approve?
MR. MAEDA: I didn't read it in yet.
Res. 214-17: AWARDS A PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL RESOURCES
PRESERVATION MAINTENANCE STEWARDSHIP GRANT TO NA MAMO
O KAWA
Approves a grant of $48,850 to Na Mamo O Kawa to protect, preserve, and restore
the Kawa properties (Tax Map Keys: 9-5-016:006 and 025; and 9-5-017:005 and
007), pursuant to Section 10-16 of the Hawaii County Charter.
Reference: Comm. 294
Intr. by: Ms. David
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to recommend adoption of Res. 214-17.
Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you very much. Council Members, this resolution is
being brought forward for the PONC (Public Access, Open Space and Natural.
Resources Preservation Commission) Maintenance Fund grant. If you recall, in
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June 6, 2017
December this matter came before us in Kona. I think Mr. Kai—yes, what was
the last nameMcGuire, yes, sorry, came forward and expressed his concern
that the listing of the directors' names was the only thing that basically was
missing from this stewardship grant. Based on that, I didn't—we were taking
the recommendation, basically of Parks and Rec's, at that point in time.
Until I did some research, and I discussed a lot of things with this application
with the PONC department, then Alex Keliipoo and Hamana. So, what I found
out is that when you folks provided the names of the directors that was
requested, I think at that time it was the sense of this body that you folks have
provided what was missing. The only problem was whether we could go ahead,
or the Council Member could go ahead, with the resolution based on the
recommendation from Parks and Rees, which was not to approve.
I'm asking for my Council Members' support on this, and the reason being, in
an effort not to set a precedent on moving forward with something that wasn't
recommended, this is a special situation. Because when I investigated this
further, I found out that this group was involved from the very beginning.
When Uncle Abel Lui was asked to leave, that was a very sensitive issue and it
was very difficult to deal with. And I know that when they tried to have a first
community meeting, this particular group came forward and wanted to care for
the place, seriously, take care of it because they come from Ka`u. They're
related to Aunty Pele Hanoa. They are so tied to this community that I didn't
realize—and you guys have a communication in your folder, that I asked them
to provide, which is theira timeline of when this group was first involved, and
they started prior to 2012. They have been doing maintenance and caring for
this place since then, working with the prior administration, using their own
funds, their own donation of hard time to care for this place. I personally went
on a field -trip, when they had the entire football team from Kamehameha
School, and went down on a cleaning—it was a great day. And, you guys have
been doing a great job.
The reason I'm asking, and I'm bringing this resolution forward, is because I
feel that when we discuss, and when we talk about having our younger
generations carry on this malama `aina, seriously, we talk about it, you folks are
living and you folks are doing it. You folks have done it since the very
beginning, on your own time, and now I feel that it is appropriate that we
support you and allow you to get some help with this Maintenance Fund. That's
what it was created for. I think you folks have been demonstrating what we as
older people, junior kupunas, really. I'm not there yet. I really think—this is
what I dreamed about, right, because it's a lot of commitment. For us that's
been through years, of trying to advocate for taking care of our resources, our
cultural resources, it's not easy. I recognize that you folks are an example of
what we, at least I see in our young people, the commitment that I wish had
when I was your age. I started a little later. That's why I'mI'm old now, but
you know, you guys are like— it makes me really happy that you folks are
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June 6, 2017
following through. Not only following through, but you guys are committed.
Because you come from the place, you're connected, and you can't replace that.
So, regardless whether—the recommendation—and I appreciate the
recommendation from Parks and Rees. I had a discussion already with Parks
and Rees. I expressed to them my feeling about this because I think you folks
have demonstrated above and beyond, that you folks really love this place and
you're taking care of it, and you're not getting in the middle of being torn
between issues except caring for the place. I applaud you guys. I really aloha
you folks for doing that.
I just ask for your guys' support because this group, if you look at what they've
done in the last several years—yeah, I thank you guys. I really do. I really do.
Mahalo, you folks. I ask for your guys' support. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Ms. David. Ms. Ruggles.
MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. I just wanted to also express my appreciation for
what you are doing.
I was half -raised in Ka`u and half -raised in Puna, so I have a lot of family there.
Actually, my brother, yeah, he helped build the surf shack. So yeah, I just really
appreciate that you guys are continuing to demonstrate resilience to the whole
situation. It's very complex.
I have a question. I remember in the original, not original, one of the PONC
fund requests, of the breakdown of the funds, is there going to be two full-time
security guards there now?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Can you please turn on your mic and identify yourself?
MR. AKAU: The way it was written, we're going to contract.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Could you identify yourself, please?
MR. AKAU: Oh sorry, my name is James Akau, with Na Mamo O Kawa. We
are going to think of more passive ways to implement a security system, so
using like a game. I've been working with the Mauna Kea Watershed Alliance
and becoming more familiar with the technology. So more creative solutions to
enforcing security, and then having whoever we contract be a certified security
guard as well as someone who's licensed to do cultural and natural resource
management. So, like a two -fold or two -bird with one stone kind of approach.
MS. RUGGLES: So there will be a security guard there?
MR. AKAU: Yeah, when that person, whoever is doing the contract, that
services down there performing their tasks.
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MS. RUGGLES: Oh, okay. Just only when somebody is down there doing
work?
MR. AKAU: Yeah, and then the passive security system with the game cam
MS. RUGGLES: I see.
MR. AKAU: mounted on a tree near a tree near the gate, the front gate, and
maybe one that's closer to the beach.
MS. RUGGLES: Okay, thanks.
MR. AKAU: And that same person will be tasked with checking the game cam
and having those updated photos sent to their phone.
MS. RUGGLES: Okay, thank you.
MR. AKAU: Right on.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Did you want to add something?
MR. FELDER: Hi, my name is Larry Kaui Kaupu Felder. I live in the district of
Ka`u, town of Pahala. I'm one of the people that volunteered since day one and
been a supporter of this group since exactly the meeting that we had and before. I
walked in from Ninole. It's about a few miles away, at Black Sand Punalu`u
Beach. I used to walk there, when they closed it down, because you ain't going to
stop me from getting in there to surf or take care of the place that I love, because
we were told "(inaudible) to the beaches, not supposed to be stopped," of the
access. Public access, after five years any roadways supposed to stay open.
How we looked at it is, take care the place. We shouldn't be grumbling about
something if we not going take the initiative to do it. So, don't be a grumbler, be
a worker. Don't step over the trash, pick it up.
We were taught from our older kupuna, like Uncle Abel and many other elders,
my grandparents and many more—sorry about that, I kind of choked up, I ain't
use to this—the right idea, like how she said, you taught by the older people, carry
it on so you can show the next one to take over.
We just want to keep the place safe, make it accessible for the public, and nice,
presentable, like how we always was told to upkeep. And make sure—like
yesterday, we had a group of YCA (Youth Challenge Academy) members, of
about 70 members, cadets, come down and help us. We've been doing this since
some years back. Like how she said, we wanted to make sure that we don't bite
off more than we can chew. We wanted to do this from the beginning. We didn't
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want to make ourselves look like we're asking for a whole bunch of money and
ain't being able to put up. So, show before you're able to ask. That's what we've
been trying to do. So, I thank you for actually saying that.
I am a certified security officer with the R&T Security. I work at the transfer
station. I just got off work at Pahala. I do security there. I've been doing that
since 2009, with the County, at the transfer stations. I am certified, so the time
that I am there, I am a licensed guy that can at least address those certain issues
and make sure that it's documented. The idea of what we want to do is
document everything that goes on down there, so the next generation that is to
take on, they'll have something to go off We want to leave petroglyphs into the
ground for the next generation, like ours did for us.
So, the idea of it is "take care." Make sure that everybody is able to come in
there safely, and do their natural practices. Because we Hawaiians 24/7, not
from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., cannot pick `a`ama at noon, cannot go fishing for certain
fish, or gather during the day. I understand the rules and everything like that.
But my idea of the place is more—it was a home to our ancestors, it was a
fishing village, is where we learn and train. With all that being said, we'd like
to share that with everybody and let them know that. So, it's a schoolroom, and
however we can carry -on, we will.
With my initiative, I come in there and clean. Check the trash cans to make
sure that we're able to communicate with Public Works to get trash bag liners.
They help us out a whole lot. So, I'd like to thank right now Public Works:
Alex Keliipoo, Hamana Ventura, Collins Tomei, everybody, including your
guys' self, for taking the time to even acknowledge this because we've been
wondering if it would ever be noticed. It doesn't even really matter, because we
were going to keep on doing it anyway. Well, I'd like to thank you guys. And
that would be about it. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Go ahead. Please state your name again.
MR. AKAU: Oh sorry. James Akau, Na Mamo O Kawa. In terms of active
security, while Kaui is on duty, that would be our active security system. But in
the greater scheme, creating aor cultivating a culture of caring, I think, creates
a safer space and creates less opportunity for individuals to commit crime such
as larceny or whatever it may be. I think by bringing children down and by
putting up signage, and maintaining the space, I think it creates less opportunity
for folks who are less well intentioned to, whatever, commit a crime. That's
sort of the approach we've been taking.
Like, we cleaned up one of the camp sites and set up trash bins. The camp sites
were probably used by drug addicts in the past, and spent a few weekends
cleaning out. We noticed after a month's time, that the place had started taking
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care of itself, meaning the people who had started using the space saw the
etiquette that was established and sort of followed suit.
I know active is probably the strongest and documentation is the next strongest
approach to security. I've had my wallet stolen out of my friend's car years
ago, my whole backpack. There was my social security card in there, and it was
a whole mess for me. I understand the security is an issue there, but I think if
we can create a culture of caring through our active work and by bringing
people down there, it creates and shifts the energy to a place where those sorts
of activities become nominal, hopefully.
MS. RUGGLES: Yeah, I agree with you. Thank you. I also just want to say I
remember, was it like five years ago, when we were doing all these community
events down there, we had concerts, we had surf contests. It was a really great,
great space. And then since the whole thing with the County, really—yeah, it
changed a lot. I'm encouraged by what you guys are doing, and I hope to see it
back thriving again.
MR. FELDER: Yeah, there's one more other thing that I can mention?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Just state your name so that
MR. FELDER: My name is Larry Felder. I'm from Ka`u.
Another thing that we always been asking about, the Saltpan stone, that stands
right out here in the middle of the walkway out here, is originally from the area
of Kawa, and we always asked that it may be ho`i mai. Yeah, it has the plaque
right out there. Its purpose is not to grow mildew but the dry salt for people, the
pa`akai. I believe it'll be a great thing, like how Ms. Ruggle said, we had many
events held down there. Why not carry one that will mean something to the
people, and something to the history, and something to you guys, you know
what I mean? Legacy, when it comes to return the rock home. To take care of
all these things is like, it's not hard, it's simple, you know what I mean? We
can just put in the work. We ain't asking for build a mansion, we're just asking
for something in return.
With all the things that's being done and being taken care of down there, the
idea of it is, security is not just watching or anything like that, but assuring that
people—that park, nearly a quarter mile away at the highway and is willing to
walk that far in there, it's kind of taking a gamble and a risk, if you know what I
mean. Like, if you left your car out there, our president of our group left his
truck out there and it was stolen. He got it returned, but not everything in it,
you know what I mean? The idea of it is, many of the cars was broken in today
belongs to hardworking people. They only come down there to practice what
they learn, to go fishing, to go surf. They shouldn't be subjects to victims to
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anything like that. So, that's the reason why we push for this. Maybe in the
long run, maybe allow access to the people so they can be a little bit closer.
I get my own truck. I've been using it since day one to go down and help haul
out all these things, haul in all the equipment, and take out all the trash. I don't
even worry about it because, seriously, that's what I want to see the place to be
because it's like a home to me. It's where I used to practically live. I know
Mrs. Ruggles' brother very much because we used to hang out down there all
the time. Me, his dog, my mom, my dad, Uncle Abel, and everybody else. The
idea of it is, carry on a good thing and not a bad thing, and take care of the
place.
To put those game cams up there is to kind of reassure people or let people
know that "this is what happen" or try to give the right authorities a heads -up,
like this is what's going on down there. Because money and time is an issue for
everything, everybody's job is important. So at the maka`i you've got to go
from Minoli`i, and there's only four on the active, by the time they get to Kawa,
braddah stay past Puna already, whoever took your stuff It's kind of poho that
there's no way of knowing what happened. Because when people have their
things being taken or their hard -work being ruined, it's kind of—it discourages
people when you see busted glass out there, and you go for park and you say,
"Eh, no mind, we going Punalu`u. You know what I mean?"
We would like to reassure people that it is safe. Because no matter what, I
parked out there, but many other people does get treated that way. Some
people, they look at me, as like "Oh, that Hawaiian good, no bother him; he take
care the place," but that's not the case for everyone. Some people they don't
know—they don't care. They don't really care, they're just on their next move
to do whatever they want to do. So with that being said, the idea of putting the
game cams out there would be a good idea. The ones that closer to, being able
to understand what's going on. Because in the last five years, I would say over
five to six break-ins, stolen cars, all different types of things. Some of these
events even made it to the newspaper, where the guys like take the things, cars
for stolen cars.
With that being said, our district is so big. We could fit all the other islands in
that one district. We may be the biggest, but we have the smallest population.
With that being said, we have the less resources. We're not trying to make it
seem like we're begging or anything like that. It's just hard for the maka`i to do
their job plus respond to something like that. So if they cannot be there, at least
they will have that image or that moment on camera to where this is justifiable
as evidence, and then the next person can have some kind of justice, you know
what I mean? That's all. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you very much. Ms. Ruggles, was that
your last question? Anybody else have a comment or question? Ms. O'Hara.
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June 6, 2017
MS. O'HARA: I just have a comment. I'm so impressed with what you guys
are doing. How much—how large is your group of volunteers, nonprofit?
MR. FELDER: With that being said, we have a few members in the back. We
have a lot of members, with that being said. We have a lot of young kids. A lot
of the YCA (Youth Challenge Academy). A lot of different programs that have
come down there, and a lot of supporters. A lot of recommendations, not
recommendations but members or what not. We have a lot of close-knit people.
A lot of surfers, a lot of different people, that they come down when they can
because they have their own families and what not. But, I would say at least a
group of over 20 or more.
MS. O'HARA: So when you have a work day or something you get about 20 or
more people?
MR. FELDER: Yeah, or more. I don't want to exaggerate, so I'll try to give
you a decent number, you know what I mean?
MS. O'HARA: Yeah, yeah.
MR. FELDER: But we have a lot of different people. We have a lot of
different people in support of it.
MS. O'HARA: Yeah, great.
MR. FELDER: And with that being said, if there's any way—what we need to
do more is to document it; so when there's questions, we are able to have that
mana`o there for you guys. We are seeking to do so, to make sure that we do
that. Like how we said, we started off from a small little thing. We didn't want
to bite off more than we could chew. We wanted to make sure we learned the
rules before we play the game. So when we came in, we came in trying to play
smart. Play chess instead of checkers, you know what I mean? We came in
trying to address what is the dos and the don'ts, what we can and cannot do.
How we cannot use the Handicap Act on these lands to put things there. I heard
these things, I learned these things. Because we have great resources, like
James and Pueokai, and many other more. Mac Clark, Ron Terry, all these
other people, we really took the time to meet these people and learn what they
do and see how it can benefit the place, not us but the place.
The families, they support it. The people in the community, they support it.
The people of the island, they support it. With that being said, there's not too
many people that can mediate the situation with some arguing activists, the way
we have demonstrated, you know what I mean? We try to ho`oponopono and
put everything else aside in the places. What needs to be taken care of, not
argume.
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June 6, 2017
We always try to make sure that place is for the good, and that everybody
understands that, so when they bring their kids, they continue that. Their kids
enjoy the place as much as ours, and many more to come.
So, I'd like to say with your guys' support I'm one of the main people
that will go down there. I was there yesterday, the day before, and many
other times. I'm always there. I have access to the key to open the gate.
I communicate with the people, whoever I have to. If I have to call
Hamana, Alex, or if I got to text them; if I have to call Parks and Recreation,
Dennis Alejo. I live around this community, so well that I'm aware of who
works there, what days they work, all these different things.
I work at the transfer station, I know where the trash can be put, where it can be
dumped, where it has to go. With all these resources in this one place, from
when they put it that time and work, like how I've always been doing. My
family has too, and many other people of the community, because that's our
backyard. That's where we get our fish. That's where we get away. When we
can't get away from the pavilions, and the Jack Tour buses, and all South Point
being crowded by outsiders, you want to find a place of refuge, you want to find
a place to where you can sit down. Because not too many people want to just
let your kids kihele all over, you know what I mean? Down there, everybody's
kids is like your own. You're going to look at it, is you're going to take care
because that's the idea. That's what we was taught, so we're just carrying over
what we was taught and trying to make an example of what needs to be done.
Because we've seen it in many other places around this island. Maku`u don't
have much. I see it in Keaukaha, I see it in Kona, I've seen it in many other
places, but we'd like to introduce it to Ka`u. So thank you, guys.
MS. O'HARA: Thank you. Mahalo and thank you for your work at the transfer
station too.
MR. AKAU: And there's some other groups that we've had down there.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: And state your name first.
MR. AKAU: James Akau, Na Mamo O Kawa.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you.
MR. AKAU: So we've had Kamehameha Schools — Kapalama High School
team, the whole football team. We've had Halau kupukupu Summer Program
from Kamehameha Kea`au, and that's was, I think, operates the 40, 46 students
in addition to the chaperones. We've had the youth cadets, from Hawaii
Youth Challenge, and they bring a bus load of students. I think operates from
60 to 70, they've been down there about once a quarter for the past two years, at
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least two, three years. We've had STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering,
Math) programs from University of Hawaii -Hilo, like the PIPES (Pacific
Internship Program for Exploring Sciences), they've been down there last
summer. We had Ma`a students from the STEM program, through the PIPES
office, come down there. There are probably only about eight students.
We had Manowai o Hanakahi come down, part of the UH -STEM Pipes office.
And then Ka`u community workdays, we had one recently in the last month,
and that happens maybe bi-annually or quarterly, as well. We've had the
Miloli`i community approach us to host the workday for them. Ka`imi Kaupiko
of Kalani Hale, he wrote us a letter of support. They're supportive of our
community efforts, and I, myself, helped them with their monitoring program.
Kehau Springer, part of Conservation International, she's helping to develop a
marine monitoring program. We actually stay at Kai Kahele's house when we
do that, so they're in strong support and have written letters of support for our
group.
We've been approached by Boys and Girls Club. These are just prospect
groups that I'm listing now, for people that we're trying to work into the mix.
Groups range typically from six to seventy. We cater to small groups, big
groups. We cater to anybody that expresses interest and is persistent enough to
fill up my schedule, as typically what happens in my life.
I love Ka`u. I'm from Ka`u. We grew up—me and Kaui are classmates. Kai is
also a classmate. Known each other our whole lives practically, and grew up
surfing and throwing net down there, and still run down there for rest and
relaxation, and to give back to a place that created our identity. So mahalo for
listening to us.
MS. O'HARA: Thank you so much. I really appreciate everything you do. I
guess we can't say there's nothing to do in Ka`u because you guys surely stay
really busy. So, thank you so much.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. I think Ms. Poindexter had her light on
next.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. I just want to say that it was so beautiful to hear all
of what you said, being connected to this beautiful place. I could feel how
much love you have to protect this cultural heritage, not just for now, not just
for yourself, but future generations, and that gives me chicken -skin to see how
young you are and leading that way and setting an example for the keiki, and
including, of course, your kupuna. Oh junior kupuna, sorry about that.
Thank you so much for teaching all of us what caring for the `aina, malama
`aina, the true malama `aina t is all about. Because it's not just taking care of
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the land but making sure that you perpetuate it for future generations, and with
aloha and so much of that. I could feel that. So, thank you so very much.
And to the people who came to support, I love you guys so much. It's
awesome, yeah. So, thank you. Aloha.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. This is such an easy one, such an easy
one, Maile. We sit up here and have many, many hours of conversation, not
near as enjoyable as the last 20 minutes listening to you guys.
With that being said, we as a group collectively trying to figure out what we can
do for the generations to come. Because you guys have heard me say it before,
we can't mess up the County bad for our generation but we can do a job on you
guys if we don't come up with good policy, we're trying. But I love hearing of
what you guys talk story about. Like I said, Maile, it's an easy one, real easy.
Thank you, guys, for what you guys do.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Mr. Kanuha.
MR. KANUHA: Yeah again, mahalo for coming. You definitely gave me way
more information than I needed to vote for this thing, but I appreciate that
because it tells me how much passion you guys have for the place, yeah, that
you call home and the place that you guys want to malama. So, I really
appreciate you guys coming and telling us the story behind why.
Not only do I like what you guys do, but I'm a little biased. I think "Mauro" is
the greatest name on earth. But, yeah, not only because of that, but I fully
support on what you guys doing and I really appreciate what you guys have
done. I look forward to see what you guys do in the future. Come back and let
us know what happens and how more we can help out, yeah? We will get down
there one day.
MR. AKAU: Can I highlight one more thing, with the collaborations we had
and partnerships we've had? We've been to a number of Hawaii Wildlife Fund
work days. Myself, I've been to one personally. All turtle people, yeah, we
support the Turtle Group. So just to kind of highlight sort of the approach
we've taken, like the Kapu Aloha.
There's always going to be conflict, that's an inevitable part of life. But I think
sort of where growth begins is conflict resolution and being able to maintain the
etiquette of Kapu Aloha, and I've learned that from a lot of different people
including the Piki `ohana on Kaho`olawe, Aunty Hannah Springer, and
Cody Palehu. So we're not perfect in that regard, but we try to have that be the
main intension of the work that we do.
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Working with Abel, we grew up with Abel. Working with Hawaii Wildlife
Fund, the Piki `ohana. There have been some pretty rough exchanges. Like, I
think, I have just taken the approach, and our group has taken the approach, to
persevere. K5'u kumukaha, we're ma`a to having sort of that fire around us and
being comfortable, and then being able to operate through it and with it, and
actually have it fuel the work that we do and not be prohibited. So just to kind
of highlight our approach and our thinking on how we conduct the operations as
based on. Yeah, conflict is part of being a K5'u community member and we
welcome it, and enjoy, people are comfortable enough to express themselves in
a firey way.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Maile, it really was—this is an easy one.
I've got to agree with Mr. Kanuha, Mamo is the best name because my
youngest is Kaukaleimamo. So of course, this is a very easy one—you've got a
stacked deck here. Kapu aloha, Malama `aina, all of those outdoor classroom
programs, that is something. I've worked, probably the last 12 years doingI
kind of never really understood why back in December they were kind of being,
maybe, just not passed or passed over, I think, just over some technical things. I
couldn't understand. They had some heavy hitters. I mean, Ron Terry, he's
been a mentor of mine for 25 years. So, Ms. David, thank you so much for
being just as tenacious as them, to get them the resources that they need.
A junior kupuna for sure—and it's not going to go away. So, thank you again.
Thank you to the group for just working hard. They really are an example of
kakou. They really are. It's not okou, makou, it is kakou. So thank you, folks,
very much. I yield.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Is there any other comment?
Before I give it back to Ms. David, I would just to like also commend you for
persevering. For all of the work you've put in, it's the perfect definition of why
we have the Open Space Fund and the Maintenance Fund. This is putting
together all the objectives and goals that, I believe, this opportunity of having
this money.
MR. FELDER: That was the outline. That was the whole idea of what we went
about doing. We wanted to understand what you guys put out there and what
we understand what we wanted to have done. With that being said, those rules
pretty much started the pretty much the Bylaws on what we need to follow.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: That's great. I think you can definitely work to make
sure that everything is a fit, and that's kind of how it has to work when it
involves government. But I think you're on the right track and I really
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appreciate you and Ms. David for going ahead with this. So, I'll turn it back to
you, unless there's anybody else? Go ahead, Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Mahalo. Mahalo, Kaui. Kai, who can't be here, and I aloha him.
because it was my meeting with Kai that drove me to feel what you folks have
contributed and made my decision an easy one to make at that point in time.
So before we close, there's no words I can express, to say "thank you" for what
you folks have done. You are what we, like I said, envision our young people to
be committed and to do. You folks are living that.
I want to really say thank you to Alex, sitting back there, because I know Alex
helped these guys to get their 501(c)3, to file their application. Their
application was awesome. I read it, and I justso, Alex, mahalo for working
and seeing how great these bunch of young men and women have done for us.
Also, I'd like to say thank you to Karen Teshima because I know that you folks
worked a lot, really closely with her, and she has so much good things to say
about you folks. She supports you folks a hundred percent because she worked
with you folks from day one, from that first community meeting, and knows the
hard work—so I talked to her.
Hamana, we did not forget about you in Kona. Aloha, Hamana, and thank you
so much for all you do and your involvement with Na Mamo O Kawa.
So on that note, I really—this was a refreshingI really thank you guys. This
is such a refreshing piece of legislation that we have to discuss. Because we
were here last night till almost midnight, so this is a great opportunity for us to
get grounded again in what we do. You folks make me realize it's all
worthwhile, sitting up here is all worthwhile because of you folks. So, thank
you very much for coming. I'm ready to take the vote.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Ms. David. We'll go ahead and take the
vote on approval of Resolution 214. All in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 214-17: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 214-17 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards,
Ruggles, and Acting Chair Eoff - 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
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ACTING CHR. EOFF: The motion to approve has been confirmed, and
congratulations.
MR. FELDER: Thank you, guys. Mahalo nui loa.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: We need to take a recess to change our tape right now,
so after that I'll return the chair to Chair. We're in recess.
Recess: At 11:02 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:16 a.m.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Vice Chair Eoff relinquished the chair to Chair David.
CHR. DAVID: Alright, we're calling the Finance Committee out of recess.
Mr. Clerk, can you read in Resolution 218-17, please?
Res. 218-17: REQUESTS THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR TO PERFORM A FINANCIAL
AND/OR PERFORMANCE AUDIT ON THE CASH HANDLING
PROCEDURES OF THE MASS TRANSIT AGENCY IN FISCAL YEAR
2017-2018
Requests the Office of the Legislative Auditor to include in its audit plan for
fiscal year 2017-2018 an audit of the Mass Transit Agency's cash handling
system, and that such an audit shall not be initiated until after a permanent
administrator for the agency has been employed.
Reference: Comm. 300
Intr. by: Ms. Lee Loy
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Ms. Lee Loy's not here by, but may I
please have a motion to approve Resolution 218-17, please?
MS. O'HARA: I will so move in her absence, but I sure hope she get's here
soon.
MS. DAVID: Right; if not, we'll have to take a short recess. Can I have a
second, first then?
Motion to Approve: Ms. O'Hara moved to recommend adoption of Res. 218-17.
Seconded by Ms. Eoff
MS. DAVID: Thank you. Let's take a really, brief recess and look for
Ms. Lee Loy.
Recess: At 11:17 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
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Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:18 a.m.
MS. DAVID: Alright, we're back on the record. Ms. Lee Loy, there was
a motion made by Ms. O'Hara and seconded by Ms. Eoff on your
Resolution 218-17, so we're all ready to go. Go right ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ms. O'Hara and Ms. Eoff,
for moving this forward for me. Resolution 218, if you folks recall, came up
during our budget process, and I don't want to rehash some of the hiccups that
we occurred during that process.
But, this was one measure I thought would help the department. They were
really struggling. We were asking really hard questions. One area that
concerned me was the cash handling piece, so this resolution really identifies
just that, and that it's requesting that the auditor prepare an audit around that
particular piece.
Also, one part of the resolution is requesting that the audit be performed
only after the department has secured their director. Right now, they're under
an 89 -day contract in that department. After speaking withI think staff spoke
with auditor, and they felt it was better to audit a department when they have all
the right people in the right seats of the bus. So, I'm asking, yeah, no pun
intended, I am asking for your folks' support on this. I predict that the audit
wouldn't happen for at least another six more months. I'm not sure where the
administration is as far as securing that position. I'm asking for your folks'
support.
I also had asked Ms. Ruggles, as part of her committee, to have a possible
presentation from the Mass Transit office as far as where they were going and
what their plans were; unfortunately, they didn't coincide. I thought that
presentation would've brought a lot of context to this audit, but it's not moving
in that direction. So, I'm just going to keep this piece forward and I kindly ask
for your support. Thank you.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Questions, Council Members?
Ms. O'Hara.
MS. O'HARA: It was even a shorter night for me, I had to drive home.
Anyway, I understand where you're going here. We did have some questions,
given what the numbers that were before us, when we were having our budget
discussions and hearing from the various agencies. Things are in transition, as
you point out in Mass Transit. Sorry, no pun intended. But, I'm actually
surprised that Curtis Sharp, right, Curtis Sharp, we refer to him as the 89er, is
not here today. He was here all day yesterday, so I'm not sure why he's not
here today. I appreciate that Tiffany is here.
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FC -12
June 6, 2017
I agree that this needs to be done when the department is in its full shape, and it
isn't right now. It's in transition. So, let's consider that. That's reasonable.
The other concern I have with doing the audit, and it's not really a concern, I
think it's going to be a positive, is that in attending a meeting recently with
Curtis Sharp that Ms. Ruggles called in Kea`au. It was a public meeting. We
didn't have the greatest attendance from the public, but for public meetings it
wasn't bad. I'd say half of the attendees were from my district, probably half
from Ms. Ruggles' district. They had really excellent suggestions about shaping
Mass Transit for the Puna district, in particular, and for basically for the island.
I was surprised because Mr. Sharp came back and said to me, "I should be doing
this with all kinds of community groups, and I said, "exactly," because you
can't develop a good plan for Mass Transit, just focusing on the hardware, and
the hardware being the busses, and blah, blah. I'm sure that's really important
too, but we need a plan, and that plan has to speak to the needs in especially the
rural communities because that is where Mass Transit is absolutely critical at
this point in time. I had asked the Mayor's office to bring us said plan
tomorrow, when we entertain the fuel tax resolution, so we'll see what we get.
But, I think what would be helpful is to do an audit. Because the audit isn't just
financial, it's also about performance and it could tell a lot of things that will
help in developing that broader plan for the County. I've got to embrace the
audit as not really a negative thing but a positive thing for our Mass Transit. So,
I think I'll be supporting this. Thank you.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. I won't take up Council time by echoing
what Councilwoman O'Hara just said. But I completely agree as far as
identifying, again, Councilwoman Lee Loy's statement, "Get the right people,
on the right seats, on the bus." I agree with all those statements.
I believe that the audit can be very, very positive. And, I do like that meeting.
In fact, I had, somewhere in the wee hours of last night, I had this exact
conversation with Mr. Sharp concerning having those meetings.
So, I think this is all in the right direction. The whole intent is to identify the
issues, help sort them out, and fix it, and let's just get going. So, I'm going to
be supporting this. Thank you.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Anyone else? Mr. Kanuha.
MR. KANUHA: No, I support it as well. But I just want to hear from Bonnie.
(Note: At this time, Legislative Auditor Bonnie Nims came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
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FC -12
June 6, 2017
MR. KANUHA: Just kind of take me through the process of us submitting a
resolution to you. I know we talked about this a lot of times, of how you decide
what audits to conduct and when. But in terms of this one, we send you a
resolution asking for an audit of a specific purpose, what happens then?
MS. NIMS: Sure. Bonnie Nims, Legislative Auditor. Basically, per the
Charter, we're required to do an Annual Audit Plan based on our risk
assessment, of assessing each County department process, like payroll, cash
receipts, constituent concerns, Council's concerns are all incorporated into that
risk assessment.
In particular, on Mass Transit, during the prior year we did do some preliminary
review of their internal controls over cash receipts. We did identify some
weaknesses, that we made verbal recommendations. We have not verified that
those recommendations have been resolved, but we are aware that they're
working towards it. So, we do take that kind of information into consideration.
If the resolution is approved, we will definitely consider that as part of our
annual risk assessment as well as what we know from our preliminary survey.
So, I'm not sure. Does that answer your question?
MR. KANUHA: Yep, I mean that's—yeah, yeah, yeah. I was trying to go back
in time of—because I remember exactly what you were talking about, the verbal
assessments that you gave towards Mass Transit and how they handle certain
things. I think the coins and cash was one of theI think had buckets in one
room or something, of cash. I just wanted to hear exactly the process. I'm
supportive of this, and thank you for putting us through. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kanuha. Anyone else? No? Alright,
Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Just as a follow-up, what Bonnie just described
was the preliminary audit that the conversation went back and forth between
the department. This audit actually provides complete transparency and
accountability, and that's why I'm really urging this next step. It's great that the
departments reach out to the auditor's office to get guidance, but this is the real
transparent and accountable step. So again, I look forward to your folk's
support. Thank you.
MS. DAVID: Thank you very much. I think no one else has any more
discussion on this. We are ready for the vote. All those in favor of approving
Resolution 218-17 please say "aye."
Page 38
•
FC-12 June 6, 2017
Vote on Res. 218-17: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 218-17 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David - 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
(There were none.)
CHR. DAVID: And I believe, Mr. Clerk,that concludes our—
MR. KANUHA: Move to adjourn.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kanuha.
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 11:35 a.m., Mr. Kanuha moved to adjourn
MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David- 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Council Members.
Approved:
4W% lip-
IF a
elab An
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair (Date)
Finance Committee
MD/na
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