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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN EMC 2018/02/07 2016-2018 Committee on Environmental Management th 9 Session Hawaiʻi County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaiʻi February 7, 2018 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Environmental Management was ORDER: called to order at 3:20 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Eileen O’Hara, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Eileen O’Hara, Chair Mr. Herbert M. “Tim” Richards III, Vice Chair (came in later) Ms. Karen Eoff, Member Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member (came in later) Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member (came in later) Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Member Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Absent & excused: Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the members of the Committee to proceed to the next FROM THE item on the agenda, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Abolghassem Abraham Sadegh: Comm. 708, comment. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 708: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM CORPORATION COUNSEL JOSEPH K. KAMELAMELA ON THE COUNTY’S SUPPLEMENTAL CONTRACT WITH HAWAIIAN EARTH RECYCLING From Council Member Eileen O’Hara, dated January 17, 2018. (Note: Comm. 708.1, dated February 7, 2018 from Corporation Counsel Joseph K. Kamelamela, was circulated.) EMC-9 February 7, 2018 CHR. O’HARA: Thank you, Clerk. And everyone, do you have this handout in your pinkie’s file? “Comm. 708, update on supplemental contract” (see Comm. 708.1). If you want to get that out, that’s what Mr. Kamelamela will be addressing. And just some background. Yeah, we need a motion first to file Comm. 708. Motion to Close File: Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 708. Seconded by Ms. Eoff. CHR. O’HARA: Okay, thank you. As you may recall we had some issues with this contract about a year ago. At that time in February of last year, th, February 16 our Mayor cancelled a contract that had been let by the previous administration. It was a 10-year contract. And after considerable back and forth between the Council, the administration, and the company, it was resolved by rescinding the cancellation notice in April. And at that time because negotiations were taking place between the company and the County, a change to contract or a supplemental contract needed to be fashioned to reflect those new terms of agreement. And I was recently contacted by the company in mid-January because that process had not been completed. And at that point it was about eight months from the initial negotiations. So I called Mr. Kamelamela in to explain to us, why it’s taking so long and what kind of services is the County allocating for this effort. And I’ll let Mr. Kamelamela take it from there. Thank you. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph K. Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KAMELAMELA: Aloha, good afternoon. My name is Joseph Kamelamela, Corporation Counsel. Anyway, because of the issue that had risen when I first started what I think that our office had committed to do, you know, was to have three attorneys to assist in ensuring that, you know, that worked with her representatives. So myself, Andrew Son and Keyra Wong, you know, we’re assigned to do this case because this thick contract that you see before me, you know, really takes a lot of work. And so as you can see my two-page letter, you know, there is a lot of time, you know, that is spent to ensure that both parties, both HER (Hawaiian Earth Recycling) and the County, you know, work together to make sure that we get the best contract terms for both of the parties. And the goal here, you know, is pretty clear. You know, both the administration and the Council had made it clear that, you know, that a compost facility is good. You know, that’s something good for the County. So that’s the ultimate goal. Another goal too was to change the site from Kiyosaki Quarry. So that takes, you know—I have to say that this is one of the most challenging and difficult things that I’ve been involved with, but it’s really interesting. And so, you know, we have been able to work with the—I would call them the representatives of HER. Page 2 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 That’s Mr. Clyde Kaneshiro and his son Landon, and then John Bingham is the other person. And their counsel in this case is Corey Lau. So we’ve been talking a lot, going back and forth. So what you see in the letter is basically a brief outline as to, you know, what we have done. And so there are steps that need to be done in order to ensure that the final modifications of the contract, you know, is a solid because I don’t want to come back, you know, and have a redo. So one of the first supplemental agreements that we had worked on, you know, involved certain terms in which we had agreed to. You know, we had the reduction of the fee for about a three-year period. From, st that was from around July 1 of last year and it’s for a three-year period. So our expectation is that within this three-year period, the construction of the compost facility would be completed. But in order to ensure the completion, you know, not only going through this process of amending the contract and modifying the contract, I know that DEM (Department of Environmental Management) has also taken steps in which to find sites. So far, there are some sites that they had looked at on the east side and, so we have to go through the EA (Environmental Assessment) process for that. So that’s kind of the broad picture here. So my expectation, hopefully before June of this year, you know, we have what we need to move forward. I’m hoping that’s something earlier but once that’s done then it should be, you know, a way easier road, you know, to ensure that we get the design, we get the bids out, and we get the construction done. But not only that testing has to be done to ensure that the facility will do compost. So that’s kind of a broad statement. CHR. O’HARA: Okay. Well, thank you, Mr. Kamelamela. Questions? Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: I just have one question, right now. You said to get the bids out. Who’s going to get the bids out? MR. KAMELAMELA: We are because we’re— MR. CHUNG: County? MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, yeah. MR. CHUNG: Substantial change from what— MR. KAMELAMELA: Right. That’s— Page 3 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 MR. CHUNG: How can they do that? MR. KAMELAMELA: No, so that was— MR. CHUNG: Who’s idea is that? MR. KAMELAMELA: It was a—you know, an issue that was brought up because of the Procurement Code. So it was important that the County does that. So that is a substantial change. And if you need more information about that than you can talk to— MR. CHUNG: I mean, who came up with that? MR. KAMELAMELA: We did. MR. CHUNG: This is going to increase the cost, right? You don’t know? MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah. But at least we know the Procurement Code issues that exist are not a concern. MR. CHUNG: So who’s this going to be operated by? MR. KAMELAMELA: The final operation? HER. MR. CHUNG: So why don’t they build it? MR. KAMELAMELA: As I said, there was some issues dealing with the Procurement Code. CHR. O’HARA: Mr. Chung, if I can interrupt a little bit. You might be better to direct that question at the Director of DEM, Mr. Kucharski. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah. MR. CHUNG: Well, do you have information regarding this? CHR. O’HARA: No, but he was waiving his hand. (Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director William Kucharski came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KUCHARSKI: This is Bill Kucharski, Director of DEM. The issue of the construction of the facility modified once we went in and we were changing the location. When we—my understanding and when the original RFP (Request for Proposals) went out, there were no funds available to pay for the facility. It was Page 4 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 only after the original contract was signed that we had a cost of $10 million, plus or minus, then once we went in and we moved the facility and we had to rescission and we returned, we had already allocated that money, County moneys, that $10 million, because we couldn’t sign the contract without having the allocation and certifying that funds were available for that contract. And so once that—those funds were certified we were now in the position of not having put out for bid a design build. So now we have to do a design-bid-build because we’re building this with County funds. Originally it was the contractor’s funds that were going to be used and we were going to repay. At this point, we’re now in a design-bid-build, so that was the primary reason for the change. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, but that doesn’t answer how that came about, because Joe was saying it was some procurement thing. MR. KAMELAMELA: That’s part of it. MR. CHUNG: Because to me the design build is more efficient. Because we had a contract with these guys, I’m going to blow my mind if the price goes up now because we are coming in to build this thing. MR. KUCHARSKI: I understand. I will say that well, that’s not the expectation, we’ve been surprised by construction costs before. The issue we have though is that since we now have—this is going to be constructed with County funds, we cannot go in—my understanding on procurement, we cannot go out and allow a design build that was not—once it was bid—once we had County funds, we have to procure those services—according to the code requirements, is that we need to ensure we have the designer, we have to go out and have the bid for the construction, and then HER will be the engineer of records since it was their design and they will oversee the construction. But the construction portion would be a separate bid. MR. CHUNG: Well, I’ll tell you right now. This is what I foresee. You guys cancelled the contract before because it wasn’t advantageous to the County. Came back, I would think maybe as a meeting of the minds between the administration and the Council but I’m putting that nicely. This is going to become a train wreck, I hope not, but I—once we get involved, once government gets involved in building stuff—I’m going to hold some people responsible you know, if the price escalates on this thing. Okay, I’m very, very afraid of what could happen to the taxpayers. Because this is—we all talked about it—it’s a good project, we want composting, these guys are a good contractor it seems. Because of this delay we’re talking about over a year delay, we had everything ready to go. Page 5 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 I’m just really concerned, because prior to this—I mean, I didn’t know that now we moved away from the design build into something else. If that’s what you guys’ been doing for the last six or seven months, I don’t know what to say. But having said that let’s see how it plays out. I actually had a nice little talk with Joe outside and said, “Joe, I’m not worried about the details of this thing.” Of course, now I am though, when I found out about this—because all I wanted to know is if we’re going to move ahead or not. Because this is a long time coming; and you know, in life people have to know where they stand. You cannot keep people hanging and just not knowing whether, you know, this thing is going to actually come to fruition or not. If it’s going to happen, make it happen. If it’s not going to happen just let us know, let the contractor know and let everybody get on with their lives already. So if it’s going to happen, Joe told me outside that it’s going to happen. Okay, good. When is it going to happen? You said, well, June. Let’s see, okay, let’s not get caught up. We had a contract. How much did we pay the contractor to—we paid the contractor, right, to make the contract, right? Didn’t we, the County, pay a contractor, some consultant, to make that contract? It wasn’t from, what is that, HER? See I don’t even know these guys, I heard they do good work though. But the County paid an outside consultant to put this whole thing together. These are guys from the mainland somewhere. I’m not saying that they’re smarter than our Corp. Counsel, but we paid money for it, and now you guys’ reinventing everything. It’s very troubling to me. I hope you guys understand. And I cannot help but think that there’s something else afoot. That’s why, you know, I’m glad that Ms. O’Hara brought this up, so at least we can get some answers. But right now, all I can, you know, go on is what you tell me. And looks like it’s going to go, you guys are working on the contract, redoing it, it’s a substantial redo. And we’ll just see where it goes I guess. But don’t come back for more money. Yeah. Thanks. MR. KUCHARSKI: If I could just make one comment. The majority of this time is because we were forced to change the location from where it was originally in the contract, and the fact that there were no alternative sites looked at. And we would be dealing with this whether we did a design-bid-build or design build. It would still would be different. MR. CHUNG: That’s true. That’s partially true. But that was never articulated as being the reason for the cancellation at the outset, right? Yeah, so. Okay, thanks. MR. KUCHARSKI: Having only one location was one of the reasons for the cancellation. MR. CHUNG: I understand that. But I also understand that the contract—the redo of the contract is something that’s taking a long time. Page 6 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 MR. KUCHARSKI: The redo of the contract is primarily because we have modified the location, and that changes the entire process. This has nothing to do with the rescission, as much as it does with the fact that we have to change location, and all of those things that need to go along with the location change take time, energy, and money. MR. CHUNG: And who’s absorbing all of these costs as we go along, might I ask? MR. KUCHARSKI: The County is absorbing, I’ll let Joe go, but my understanding is this is a change order to the contract caused by the change of location. MR. CHUNG: I’m sorry, go ahead, Bill. I’m sorry. MR. KUCHARSKI: But that is what is going on now. The design-bid-build is really a minor part of that. MR. CHUNG: And all of these changes were never caused by the contractor though, right? They didn’t ask for the change of the location, right. MR. KUCHARSKI: No. MR. CHUNG: I mean, when Joe said, yes, they didn’t, or yes, they did. Yeah, so none of these delays are actually—or should be attributed to the contractor, right? At the same time, I bet you they’re absorbing a lot of cost. Are we paying for their legal costs? Oh, really. I would like to represent those guys then and you guys can take all the time you guys’ want. So the County is paying for their legal fees? That’s not too bad for them I guess. Bad for us, so you better hurry up more so. Okay, thank you. CHR. O’HARA: Anyone else? Ms. Eoff. MS. EOFF: Thank you. That was interesting and educational. And I clearly remember when we were going through this at beginning of the term, the reasons for terminating the contract, reinstating the contract and all of those costs. Hopefully, we’re still going to save money in the long run because I think that was the original intention, besides needing a different site. So it’s not clear now whether we really will be saving any costs going through all of this. But okay, is there still going to be two sites? MR. KAMELAMELA: So with the contract, you know, there were two sites, you know, one was in West Hawaiʻi. And that had to do with the—and then just correct me okay. And that is just a receiving facility. And then we had the East Page 7 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 Hawaiʻi site that was originally located in the Hilo quarry area, and that was the compost facility. Yeah, so there are still going to be two sites. MS. EOFF: And they’re still going to function in that relationship but where is this new site in Hilo or in the east side? MR. KUCHARSKI: Currently, we have a contract with AECOM, who is looking at three separate sites. Two of them that are in the Shipman Industrial Park, another by the Keaʻau Transfer Station. They’re being examined for engineering suitability of these sites. They will than grade those three sites, to find a preferred site, from the perspective of engineering. We have a second contract with SSFM to do EA (Environmental Assessment). That is being routed for signature, and should commence within the month, and that EA they will than take a look at all of the cultural, traffic, noise, all of the things that you are required to do for all three of the sites as is required by the Environmental Statues, by H.R. (Hawaiʻi Revised Statutes) 343. And we expect to have that decision done and the report done by the end of this year. Once we go through the process, if everything works as we hope it will, and nothing is certain with an EA, by January of next year, we should have a site selected and a full EA process completed. That then leaves 18 months for design and construction—design, bidding, construction of the facility in East Hawaiʻi. And so that is the schedule. MS. EOFF: So then we actually are going to select one of those three, depending on what is discovered during this evaluation of each of them. MR. KUCHARSKI: We’ll do an EA on all three sites, one will be determined to be a preferred site, depending upon the results of the EA. But from the engineering perspective saying these are appropriate sites, and we could grade this one, two and three. We have different siting criteria, well, design. And there will be the one preferred site, will be the one that will come in, and the review will be done on that. MS. EOFF: Okay, I’ll yield for now. Thank you. CHR. O’HARA: Thank you, Ms. Eoff. Ms. Ruggles. MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. I appreciate you filing this communication, Ms. O’Hara. I noticed in your letter here, Mr. Kamelamela, that it says that the west side will be receiving the mulch. Does that mean that mulch will no longer be available to east side residents? MR. KAMELAMELA: I had just labeled it from my understanding as a receiving facility, but he may be able to give more details on it. Sorry. Page 8 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 MR. KUCHARSKI: The current situation, Council Member Ruggles, is going to be essentially the same. There will still be mulch brought in to the west side. The design is that the food waste would then be mixed with the mulch and transported to the compost facility, on the east side. And so that will not—what we’re currently doing will not change, except there will be less enhanced mulch available on the east side, but compost will be available in its place. MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. And it says here that the agreement will be finalized in two months? MR. KAMELAMELA: I said, at least within two months. MS. RUGGLES: Okay. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah. MS. RUGGLES: At least two months. That’s all the questions I have. Thank you. CHR. O’HARA: Okay, thank you. Any other questions, from Council? Okay, Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah. Again, thank you, and thank you, for the update, but I’m going to echo Mr. Chung’s concern. I would sure want to see the finances on this because I’m deeply bothered by that. CHR. O’HARA: Okay. Any other comments? Okay, I have a few questions, just for clarification. Since we’ve gone from a company build to a construction build—bid out type of building, there is concern about the cost and I’m not really sure that it’s realistic to assume that we can do it at a lower cost, but since that seems to be the assumption that’s been made, I think there’s other reasons while perhaps that negotiation went in the direction it did, being that the company wanted some security here in terms of recouping costs. I can see in the initial supplemental that was the case, they recouped some cost that they had put out for the initial quarry site, which has been abandoned at this point. And Mr. Chung is right, the County used a third party to fashion this contract back in 2015-16, I think the acronym was ATP Hawaiʻi Energy Partners or something like that, I can’t remember now. I don’t have my notes from a year ago, but I drilled down pretty heavy into all of this. So it sounds like we’re going to be starting the EA soon, since we’ve identified three potential properties, and that’s been let to SSFM. That’s really good news, and it sounds like your proposed build-out date for the facility is July 1, 2020. Is that correct? MR. KUCHARSKI: Yes. Page 9 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 CHR. O’HARA: Okay, I just wanted to make sure I was following everything that was before us. My concerns besides the fact that it had switched over to a County build which could end up driving up costs, and the fact that we have a new location is one, cost; and two, the fact that, we have just expended eight months, nine months now using three attorneys, yourself included, and two deputies to develop these supplementals, which is yet to be completed; and plus we are paying for their attorney fees. We’re paying for the company’s attorney fees, on top of the three attorneys that we have internal, who are working on this. That’s a lot of—yeah. It’s a lot of hours, billable hours, and I just want you to understand the concept of efficiency. I’m sorry I’m not an attorney, I’m an economist, and this just drives me nuts that we’re using this much attorney time to come up with this much paper work. Nine months that’s a lot. So I’m just asking that we buckle down and get it done, and not bleed out any further in terms of those legal costs of modifying this contract. And I can understand why the company probably asked for the change up. It’s a security thing. I had members of the company, not at the end that you’re dealing with Joe, but the people on the ground, calling me and saying, “What’s up, we don’t have a contract.” They’re nervous after what happened to them last year, they’re very nervous about losing their jobs. So let’s get this done, let’s get it solidly on track. It’s much needed, we want this to happen. So thank you, Mr. Kucharski, for all the information you provided, and just stay with this, stay with this until this is done, please. Yeah. Because we all have grave concerns. But thank you for coming before us. And with that, can I get a vote on filing Communication 708? All those in favor, please say “aye.” Vote on Comm. 708: The motion to close file on Comm. 708 was carried by (Filed) following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles, and Chair O’Hara – 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Kanuha, and Lee Loy – 2. Excused: None. Comm. 709: REQUESTS INFORMATION FROM SOLID WASTE DIVISION CHIEF GREG GOODALE, DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT, REGARDING THE ORGANIC WASTE DIVERSION PROGRAM From Council Member Eileen O’Hara, dated January 17, 2018. Motion to Close File: Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 709. Seconded by Ms. David. Page 10 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 CHR. O’HARA: Alright, we have before us Mr. Goodale, head of Solid Waste and Mr. Kucharski, Director of DEM (Department of Environmental Management) to provide us information pertaining to the current status of the enhanced mulch program. Thank you, go ahead, gentlemen. (Note: At this time Solid Waste Division Chief Greg Goodale and Environmental Management Director William Kucharski came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. GOODALE: Okay, good afternoon, my name is Greg Goodale. I’m the Solid Waste Division Chief for Environmental Management. The County went into a new contract with—essentially the company renamed themselves Hawaiian Earth Recycling for the purposes of establishing a contract, that would eventually lead us to a composting facility. Realizing that leading up to that time, we were going to have a need to have a process that was going to allow for the processing of the green waste, but still continued to deliver mulch to the County. The issue that came up during this time when we were developing this contract was invasive species. And so, along with the Hawaiʻi Ant Lab, and various others within the Department of Agriculture, we determined that the process that we needed to put the mulch through, was what was called the Process to Further Reduce Pathogens, PRFP, which we call the final output of that enhanced mulch. So the desire was by the County to distribute only mulch that had gone through that process, particularly here on the east side, where we had seen more of the invasive species, especially things like the little fire ants. So along with the groups that I mentioned, we came up with this process, we built it into our contract, and essentially required that the contractor would put this green waste through that process to further reduce any pathogens, that might be in the green waste. So when the contract went into effect in 2016, and they began the contract, we had to go through a process with the State of Hawaiʻi, to get permission to actually implement that process. So during that period of time while we’re waiting for the State of Hawaiʻi to give us the permission to begin the enhanced mulch, we were still doing the same process, we were grinding the green waste and giving it away as mulch. Once we got the permission from the State to begin that PRFP process, we actually notified the public that there was going to be a period of time, while this material had to go through what we call a residence time. Essentially what its doing is, it’s cooking. It’s just sitting in the piles, and its building up temperature that’s hot enough, that’s going to kill any of these pathogens that might be in the mulch. And that’s really, it’s the temperature that we’re looking for that’s going to be responsible for killing any kind of, you know, viruses or ants or coqui frogs, what have you. So once we got that permission, we had a meeting with a lot of Page 11 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 the folks that were used to coming and getting the mulch, to let them know there was going to be a lag in that time period, that there wouldn’t be any mulch available because it was all going to basically get piled up to heat up and then be available to start distributing. So obviously, you know, we take in green waste every day, so we’re continuing to take in the green waste, grind it, and put it into these piles. So basically, we gave a sixty-day period for that curing of the mulch, to reach those temperatures that would kill all those invasives. So once that time period was over—and as I mentioned we had a meeting, because we wanted to make sure is that the public were aware, the people that were getting this stuff on a daily basis, were aware that this was going to be disrupted for this period of time. You know, there wouldn’t be any available, we wanted to make sure that they knew what was going on, so that’s the purpose of that meeting. And then once that time period was over, and we got verification that in fact the mulch had reached those temperatures that were desired, and that was up over the 130 degrees Fahrenheit, then we began distributing the mulch. But one thing we realized at that time was that there was going to be a limited amount, that we were going to be able to give away, because we’re continually having to make sure that this mulch has its residence time, that reaches its temperature, so in the past when we would grind the green waste, essentially, you could grind it right off the grinder and right into the back of a dump truck. It didn’t matter because you didn’t have to reach any kind of a temperature, there was no real control being put on it. For as now, because we have a lot more controls we’re putting on this mulch, we realize that, you know, we’ve got some pretty big commercial customers, and that they could potentially come in, and take all the material that we might produce, you know, in one day even. Hilo had a pretty regular habit of running out of the green waste regardless, you know, unlike West Hawaiʻi where we, you know, often wind up with the surplus of the green waste. So the County just wanted to make sure that we treated everybody fairly, established a limitation on the amount of mulch that would be given out, to each customer, because we knew there was a mix of commercial and residential folks, and we just wanted to make sure that there was an equal ability for each person to be able to get this material, because it is very popular. So we put that into place and actually for all intents and purposes, the program has actually been going very well. You know, we’ve seen upwards of, you know, forty some odd customers per day coming in, and getting, you know, their load of ten yards at a time, and up to recently we haven’t had any experience that we’ve really run out of the material, because we’ve tried to, you know, keep some so we that we have for the next day, so that people on each day they might come in, and have material available. Page 12 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 So the program has actually been working out well in terms of, you know, how it gets distributed. So to date, although, you know, in the last couple months we’ve seen a reduction in the amount of incoming green waste, and I don’t see that as like a trend, I see it just kind of a fluctuation during the year. But that also has an affect on what comes out the back end. So we’re anticipating the potential to limit the number of loads that we give out, just due to kind of some of the lower volumes of incoming green waste. So you know, like I said, lower incoming volumes means lower outgoing volumes. So right now, we’re looking at that, we think there’s a possibility we may have to limiting the number of loads that we give out, primarily again, looking at the issue of fairness, trying to make sure that people you know, are able to get the enhanced mulch on a regular basis. So I guess, you know, just kind of trying to give you—and I probably told you a lot more than you really wanted to know, but at the same time I think its important that, you know—this program really went from one of that was pretty unsophisticated, and didn’t have a whole lot of other moving parts, and now because we have to take the temperature profiles, because we have to wind row it, because we have to monitor a lot of those things, it became a little more complicated over all, not only for the County, but also for the contractor. So anyway, that’s my synopsis. MR. KUCHARSKI: If I could add just one point, one thing that Greg did not mention, is when you’re dealing with a raw mulch, you have a certain volume in mass, once it goes through the heating process, and the curing process, it loses water, you see the steam coming off, that’s water that’s evaporating and also, you’re getting CO off that pile because the carbon is breaking down, just as 2 material breaks down. We actually loose by the numbers that we have here. About 40 percent of the mass is lost during the curing. So if you’re use to 100 tons, you’re now only getting 60 tons, even though its denser and this material is more compact. You don’t have as much air space if you’re dealing with a yard of material—a bucket full. And so those other things are going together. But the biggest thing is actually the loss in mass, from the water and carbon break down in the curing process. CHR. O’HARA: Alright, Bill, thank you. Sorry, I forgot to remind you. Any questions? Okay, go ahead, Ms. Eoff. MS. EOFF: I don’t have a question, but I was at a special town meeting, regarding little fire ants, and the question came up whether it was safe for people to spread the mulch that they’re—if they’re really sure there’s not going to be any little red fire ants, or anything else in that mulch. And I just want to let you know that both speakers from the invasive species group, and I forget the other one, but they both had rave reviews that the mulch was tested, I think all the time, every day, and they do their own testing, and you do testing, and they haven’t Page 13 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 discovered any little red fire ants. They advised or cautioned, that when you get it home to test it again, but yeah, they give out a vote of confidence. MR. KUCHARSKI: Thank you, for that comment. CHR. O’HARA: Ms. Ruggles. MS. RUGGLES: Thank you, I also have a comment. I appreciate you breaking it down, as far as people are getting the same—they’re technically getting the same amount of mulch, but it’s just a higher quality and its denser. I just wanted to mention that when the program had shifted, that I received a lot of calls and emails from constituents who were relying on the mulch for their farms in Puna, and they were used to paying $200 for 20 to 30 yards, in the truck load. And now, they’re paying the same amount for only 10 yards, and so it’s taking a lot of adjusting for our district and I’m also, hopeful that we might be able to resolve that, if at all. I don’t know if you have any ideas or alternatives for them, but I do appreciate you explaining it as far as why and I understand the benefit, as far as killing invasives and preparing for this composting program. MR. KUCHARSKI: The issue that we have—again, Bill Kucharski. Is the fact that this is free and the costs that your residents are paying is for transportation? MS. RUGGLES: Right. MR. KUCHARSKI: Those transporters can take 100 tons a day from the west side if they wish, and there’s still no charge. I mean there’s a nominal loading charge, but there is no limitation on the west side. MS. RUGGLES: I understand that. MR. KUCHARSKI: But on the east side, there is. And if the issue is transportation, I don’t know that it’s three times of transportation costs to go from your location to Hilo than it is to go to Kona to your location, that it’s three times the transportation costs. If that is an issue that’s something, again, we can’t control. If we were charging the same amount for a third, you know, I can say maybe we can do something, but I can’t give less than zero. MS. RUGGLES: Yeah, I understand that, but I just wanted to—I needed to express that for my constituents, in that they are having to pay three times more for the same amount, or actually less mulch—yeah, the same amount of mulch. Anyway, I’ll yield. Thank you. CHR. O’HARA: All right, thank you gentlemen. This is an issue I was going to drill down on. We’re suppose to be back hauling from west to east, because we don’t get rid of the material on the west as easily as we get it going on the east Page 14 EMC-9 February 7, 2018 side. I mean, people on the east side are much more demanding of the product, and you know, we’ve been improving truck purchases and trailer purchases because we are looking at hauling more. And yet when speaking to the company, they’re not getting the back hauls that they expected in terms of the additional enhanced mulch from the west side. It’s partially enhanced, and they can enhance it further here on the east side. So that’s been part of the reason we have such little supplies, as I understand it, over here in East Hawaiʻi. And while we’re trying to be equitable we’re not exactly being equitable. So I’ve talked to you about this before a year ago and again about six months ago, and in the past, we’ve had the vendor and the vendor’s willing to keep a log. Your differentiating commercial versus residential based on the fact that people call a trucking business and ask for a delivery of 10 to—they prefer 30 cubic yards because that’s what the truck can haul. And their going to pay $200 regardless of whether its ten or thirty. If they have to ask that to be hauled all the way from West Hawaiʻi that hauling fee will triple. Because Puna’s that far away from West Hawaiʻi. And most of the demand is coming out of Puna, somewhat up the coast, Hāmākua a bit, but most of its coming out of Puna. And so calling the trucking businesses commercial loads is not appropriate, because they are delivering to a final customer who is a resident and looking to get 30 cubic yards. I continue to get the complaints from Puna about having to pay three times as much to get the same amount of mulch. I understand there’s restrictions, but those limitations are ones that we can control through operations. And I really wish you had a program whereby somebody could sign up for a once a month large load. You know, if you want to be fair and divvy it up, once a month, you get the right to order a large load. And they could even preorder, whatever, you know, stack it up. And how many large loads will you allow in one month. Maybe it will be a half dozen or something. But let people sign up for that large load. They’ll wait the two months so they can save the $400, trust me, the will. So let’s see if we can be more accommodating to the demand out there in East Hawaiʻi. I’m sorry that West Hawaiʻi is not quite as thrilled with the material, but that’s always been the way it’s been. So let’s truck more of it back here and let’s figure out a way to allow people an occasional large load. Is that possible, guys? MR. KUCHARSKI: Your request has been noted, and I will be talking with Greg. CHR. O’HARA: Thank you, and thank you Greg for coming before us. With that, if there are no other comments, I would like to vote on our motion to file Communication 709. All those in favor, please say “aye.” Page 15 EMC-9 February 7,2018 Vote on Comm. 709: The motion to close file on Comm. 709 was carried by (Filed) following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff, Poindexter, Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara— 5. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, Kanuha, Lee Loy, and Richards—4. Excused: None. CHR. O'HARA: And thank you gentlemen for coming forward, really appreciate it.- ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. , (There were none.) BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 4:15 p.m., Ms. David moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff, Poindexter, Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara— 5. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, Kanuha, Lee Loy, and Richards—4.. Excused: None. CHR. O'HARA: We are adjourned. Approved: 4 Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair (Date) Environmental Management Committee EO/vc Page 16 1