HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2018/03/13 2016-2018Committee on Finance
2911 Session
Hawai `i County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawai `i
March 13, 2018
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at
ORDER: 9:03 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Maile Medeiros David,
Chair.
ROLL CAT,T,-
Present: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair
Ms. Karen Eoff, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Member
Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member
Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Member
STATEMENTS
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The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called
by the Chair:
Virginia Aste:
(representing the Orchidland
Neighbors)
Rene Siracusa:
(representing Malama O Puna)
Toby Hazel:
Rufus Sonognini:
Tom Burton:
Comm. 608, in support.
Comm. 608, in support.
Bill 113 (Comm. 780); and
Bill 115 (Comm. 786), comment.
Comm. 744, comment.
Comm. 744, comment.
Abelghassem Abraham Sadegh: Bill 114 (Comm. 781), comment.
FC -29 March 13, 2018
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 14.30: REPORT OF CHANGE ORDERS AUTHORIZED: JANUARY 15 — 31, 2018
From Finance Director Deanna Sako, dated February 16, 2018, transmitting the
above report pursuant to Hawaii County Code Section 2-12.3.
Vote on Comm. 14.30: Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 14.30.
Filed Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
Comm. 15.25: REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: JANUARY 16 — 31, 2018
From Controller Kay Oshiro, dated February 7, 2018.
Vote on Comm. 15.25: Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 15.25.
Filed Seconded by Ms. O'Hara and carried by the following
voice vote:
Comm. 15.26
Vote on Comm. 15.26
Filed
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: FEBRUARY 1 — 15, 2018
From Controller Kay Oshiro, dated February 21, 2018.
Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 15.26.
Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
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Comm. 114.4: SECOND QUARTER REALLOCATION REPORT:
OCTOBER – DECEMBER 2017
From Human Resources Director William V. Brilhante, Jr., dated
February 6, 2018.
Motion to Close File Ms. O'Hara moved to close file on Comm. 114.4.
Seconded by Mr. Richards.
March 13, 2018
CHR. DAVID: I believe we have Human Resources in the room. Ifno?
Mr. Brilhante? Okay, I believe Mr. Brilhante was supposed to be here, or
Jennifer Sakamoto. But what we can do is, let me just table until we get
somebody from Human Resources. Motion to table, please?
Vote on Motion to Ms. Lee Loy moved to table Comm. 114.4. Seconded by.
Table: Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David – 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Alright, so Communication 114.4 is tabled for now. Mr. Clerk,
Communication 608.
Comm. 608: REQUESTS DISCUSSION WITH CORPORATION COUNSEL
JOSEPH KAMELAMELA REGARDING PUBLIC PURPOSE AND PROCESS
FOR THE USE OF CONTINGENCY RELIEF FUNDS
From Council Member Jen Ruggles, dated November 15, 2017.
Postponed: December 4, 2017, and January 23, 2018
(Note: There is a motion by Ms. Poindexter, seconded by Ms. Lee Loy, to close
file on Comm. 608.)
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. I believe—Ms. Ruggles?
MS. RUGGLES: So move.
CHR. DAVID: Oh no, we already on the floor.
MS. RUGGLES: Oh, thank you.
CHR. DAVID: So go ahead with the discussion.
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MS. RUGGLES: Okay, great. Well, I appreciate everyone entertaining this
discussion, and I also appreciate the testifiers coming out to remind us the context
of this communication.
So even though the Code is clear and says that it doesn't say we can or cannot use
contingency funds for Capital Improvement Projects (CIP). Even when it meets
public purpose and even though we do have a lot of precedent, of us using
contingency funds to help with CIP projects, apparently it is the new Corporation
Counsel's position that we are not that he is interpreting it, officially, that we
cannot use it for CIP. Such interpretation is constraining me from meeting the
needs of my district, especially considering the history of Capital Improvement
Projects that are allocated to Puna, in my district, it's important that I can be able
to use my contingency funds to make up for that.
So I am looking at the amendment that one of the testifiers testified to, and I think
we'll take it from there.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Ruggles. Anyone else? Seeing none, alright, all
those in favor please say "aye" on filing Communication 608.
Vote on Comm. 608: The motion to close file on Comm. 608 was carried by the
Filed following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
Comm. 744: REQUESTS PRESENTATION BY STEFAN BUCHTA, OF THE LELEIWI
COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION, REGARDING THE EFFECTS OF
SHORT-TERM RENTALS ON THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY, REAL
PROPERTY TAX REVENUE, AND THE REAL ESTATE MARKET
From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated January 30, 2018.
(Note: Comm. 744.3, from Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy dated
March 9, 2018, transmitting a hardcopy of the PowerPoint presentation by
Mr. Stefan Buchta, of the Leleiwi Community Association, was circulated.)
Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 744. Seconded
by Mr. Kanuha.
CHR. DAVID: Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Stefan, if we could bring you forward?
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March 13, 2018
(Note: At this time, Mr. Buchta came forward to address the members of
the Committee.)
MS. LEE LOY: When I first took office, this issue regarding vacation rentals in
my community, especially Keaukaha because it is a beach community, was
feeling the pressure of short-term vacation rentals popping up. I had attended the
Leleiwi community meeting, and they had shared their frustration.
And then, I also had an opportunity to meet with Mr. Sonognini about an area,
which is residential. We tried to address the issues there, and the pressures that
they were feeling in a residential community and the pressures of people coming
through a community that was quiet and just not ready for people coming late at
night, at all hours of the evening. It became very apparent, to me, that there was a
need to address this issue.
We have extremely talented individuals in our community. I had the opportunity
to meet Stefan; we talked at length about how to approach this. I didn't want to
craft policy that was driven from a silo. I wanted to draft a policy that was driven
by data. Thank you, Stefan, for doing the heavy -lifting and identifying those
challenges. And what I want to do, is use this as an opportunity for Stefan to take
a—share with the Council his findings that is impacting not only my community
but communities all across the island.
So, with that, Stefan, if you could please introduce yourself and then share the
information. It is my hope that at the end of this conversation, you know, some
question and answer with Stefan. We have something pending that will hopefully
come up soon, but it will enlighten us at different ways to address this throughout
our entire island. So, Stefan, if you could?
CHR. DAVID: If you could identify yourself for the record, and then go ahead.
MR. BUCHTA: Hello, I am Stephan Buchta. For the record, I'm presenting on
vacation rentals, on the challenges of vacation rentals across the whole island.
Not going to only speak about our neighborhood excessively—even though I
can't help to bring some pictures of individual objects in the neighborhood.
Because when you start to get interested in a problem, then it sometimes—you
know, those experiences, first experience that you have, that tend to stick with
you and drive you later on and tend to motivate you. Thank you so much,
Council Member Lee Loy, for the opportunity.
This all started a little bit as a challenge. Because six months ago, I had identified
the problem. I am German. Bicycle guy, who goes around neighborhoods, you
know, don't drive.
So I saw this change on the ground. That all of a sudden, houses started being
empty. At certain times of the year, not always, rental cars would be in front. I'm
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like, this used to be a neighbor and now that's a rental car, that's odd. This house
looks a little bit too nice; oh my God, it's getting a complete makeover. So you
see these changes as a neighbor. I started inquiring, what is this? I brought it up
to Sue Lee Loy as a concern, because I noticed that almost 20 percent of our
neighborhood had been converted. Sue said, "Well, if you really want people to
listen to this, you can't do this on a level of a neighborhood." Because we can't
make policy for one neighborhood. That's not good policy.
I have a history of collecting data. I've once helped the city of Beijing, with their
pollution problem. It's a similar issue. It's where there were many, many
polluters, but they would be hiding. Because there are strict laws, even in Beijing,
believe it or not, against all that smog. But a lot of the construction sites, they
won't cover up all the dust. Once the inspector shows up, they'll put water on top
and everything. So finding them was key. So I thought, whoa.
What you're going to be seeing is a survey of the whole island, of about 5,000.
Now, we can argue how many they are actually. Nobody knows the
exact number, and that is because it depends, somewhat how you count them.
A lot of people list their unit, they list their whole house, but then they also list
the two-bedroom in the same house. They're hoping that they catch either a
couple that will rent the two-bedroom, or they will check a whole family or a
whole group to rent the whole house so they can make double. So you have a lot
of double things of that kind. It's not a huge amount. But I would say it's like
20 percent or so, the listings of that kind. But I can tell you for sure there are
more than 5,000, individual listings, bed and breakfast owners, on this island at
this point. Some people say it's as high as 8,000, I don't believe this. But it is
also growing at a very rapid rate, between 100 and 200 every month now. It's
crazy. It's almost a historic change that's happening around us. I couldn't
believe it when I saw it.
Before I launch into the data, there's one thing I want—if there's nothing else, that
you take away fromI tried to put this into an image; in Japan, somebody told me
there's a saying that says, "As a bee gathering flowers, it takes only the taste of
them but it doesn't harm the color of scent." So it's a beautiful image of—you go
somewhere but you don't take nothing from it. But then this person that told me,
was talking about there's also ants and ants also come to flowers. Ants is kind of
sticky, but individually it's not damaging the flower. But what if there's lots of
ants, then you actually damage the flower.
So what I would like you to take away from this presentation, as a major point at
the end, there are bees and there are ants. If you have too many ants, it will kill the
flower. I think that's where we're starting to see in our residential neighborhoods,
and also in some of the ag zones, where you will see when you look at some of the
maps, that it's running wild there. There are tent cities, sprawling behind already
approved houses. Luxury tents with wooden bathrooms next to them. It's quite
amazing how creative people get.
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And I found there's now a hot -spring. Not joking, down in Puna, rented two hours
at a time, under B&B (Bed and Breakfast). Where you can go down—and they
claim they have the original Japanese hot -spring experience. I have a long history
in Japan. I don't believe that you need more soil, I mean, different kind of soil, but
they claim they have it. It's fully booked, a week out. So it's not only at B&B, this
is going crazy. All kind of businesses uses it now. It's not only short-term vacation
rentals.
(Note: At this time, Mr. Buchta gave a PowerPoint presentation to the
members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see
the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's office. A
copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see
Comm. 744.3.)
MR. BUCHTA: Thank you very much for your time.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Buchta. Council Members, I think we need to
have like a five-minute break before we continue with this. So, I'm going to take
a five-minute recess. Alright, we're in recess. Five minutes. Thank you.
Recess: At 10:55 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:04 a.m.
CHR. DAVID: Aloha, everyone, and welcome back. I am taking the Committee
on Finance out of recess. Mr. Chung, I believe you were first.
MR. CHUNG: Thank you. First of all, I wanted to thank Ms. Lee Loy for asking
for this presentation. Because, Stefan, I've got to say in all of my years working
on this Council, and there have been many, I don't think I've come across as
thoughtful or as well-done a presentation that I've seen today. You have such a
pleasant demeanor about yourself, that made it much more easier to listen to.
I don't have any questions for you. I guess it's a function of your presentation
being so well-done. It touched all of the points; public policy and all of the
different type of legislations. I mean, it was very comprehensive.
But as Ms. Lee Loy intended, you are going to be a wonderful resource for each
of us going forward. I would anticipate that many of us will be calling you from
time -to -time. And we don't have to spend time asking questions of you right
now. I just wanted to make that comment.
Just a real short comment, though. Many years ago, one of the smartest guys I've
ever worked with, John Ray, who was a former Council Member from Waimea,
made a presentation to all of us, but it wasn't as a Councilperson. He had already
left the Council and wasI think it was in his role with the Leeward Planning
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Conference, I think. I'm not too sure. This was many years ago. And then, he
talked about the decline in resort, you know, the hotel industries on this island,
and the rise of it. At that time, it was called the resort nodes being places where
people will go to moving forward. Of course, I don't think he anticipated what
we see right now. But in his own way, he articulated the rise of this phenomenon.
So, that was quite interesting.
But I just really wanted to thank you and thank Ms. Lee Loy. And anticipate that
I will be talking to you in the very near future. Thank you so much for coming.
CHR. DAVID: Mahalo, Mr. Chung. Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Stefan. Really, this was the opportunity for you to
share your wealth of information with each individual Council Member. You
touched on something that is impacting each and every district in its own very
unique way.
But we're looking at how do we create those policies, create the opportunities?
I'm lucky enough to be able to communicate with you on a daily basis, so I'm not
going to have any questions right here, right now. But you have left us with those
questions of, how do we empower communities to maintain their community
character, while still looking at opportunities for our real property tax base, the
enforcement that goes with it?
I appreciated all the different areas of the best practices and some of the areas in
which we will have to take a very multi -pronged approach, with help from the
State, help with our Code enforcement. I'm actually looking at a bigger picture,
when we go through our General Plan update, and maintaining each and every
district, and the uniqueness of those districts, while still creating an enforcement
and a policy.
So, thank you so much for your time. I really hope that all of my other colleagues
take the opportunity to reach out to Stefan, and fine-tune what future legislation
we might be having, coming forward. So, I thank you and yield at this time.
CHR. DAVID: Mahalo, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards and then Ms. Poindexter.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Echoing Mr. Chung's and Ms. Lee Loy's
comments, about "well done, excellent presentation." I do have a question. I will
be reaching out to you later.
But my take -away from your presentation was, first of all, it's not a one size fits
all. It's depending on where we're looking at. It's a character of the community.
It's one of the comments you made on your monster, I guess we'd call it,
Keaukaha side. I mean, the whole reason people want to come here is the
character of the community. So the paradox is, the more you impact that, that
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character disappears. So, it's a short-term gain; but if you slowly erode that to
nothing, then what's the attraction to bring balance? So, mindful of that.
You did touch on the economic side, which is part of the balancing act that we
have to embrace and figure out how to make this work. Because there's an
economic impact, positive to the County. If we can embrace that and engage that
for the County, there's some good benefits. But we have to strike that balance in
there.
I was looking—here's the question. You have your best practices. My question
is, what were some of the worst practices? I was looking for that slide. What
were some things that other jurisdictions tried that were really bad ideas? I was
kind of wondering if you had any comments on that. Because there's no point in
us discovering the bad ideas ourselves. Let someone else tell us what they were.
Do you have any comments on that?
MR. BUCHTA: I think what I talked about, the end of the presentation, it wasn't
so much the policy that they had put in. It was—they didn't emphasize
enforcement. That they had to adjust the policy later on. Many times in order to
make it work. Is that, whatever policy you go in—and it's interesting.
Berlin put 100,000 euros; San Francisco originally put in only 500. It didn't have
much different impact. Because the 100,000, you would only catch a few guys.
So if you look at the total amount of listings, it didn't drastically reduce it but it
caught a few major, you know, offenders in residential neighborhoods. So I think
it'sit really depends on what you expect out of it. If you expect a large impact
on the amounts of listings, then you're going to put a different policy in that if
you just want to curb a few big operators, as I would be advocating for. But I've
been generally puttingI'm seeingI haven't seen a lot of super bad policy put
in at this point. Because everybody's looking at this explosion, and it's
happening in real time. They're trying to curb it. They're finding out that the real
problem is not just, you know, putting the policy but the enforcement.
I think every county and every area is unique. So to some extent, we're not the
same as San Francisco. We have more absentee owners with their houses. We
have different constituencies. So I think whatever we put in, we'll have to adjust
on the grounds relatively quickly. I don't know if the mechanism, as bids get put
out, allows that; to adjust things on the ground, to maybe even at every six months
or at every year. Let's say, to see, you know, is this curbing and how are the hosts
adjusting? Because you're looking at sort of a designer made system; is where
you put some policy out, then the host will first hide and the host will, you know,
maybe split up the houses. You know, maybe hide behind the lessees. That's
what you see on the mainland. They're very creative. Because there's so much
money at stake. The few smart hosts will—what you tend to see, will get very
creative. So I think the message isn't—it's not so much the smarts you put in
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now. Because you don't understand the system until you see upgrading, when
you put it in.
But one thing we can take away from this, some cities don't put in density
regulations. I think that's definitely not good, right? They just outright
ban everything, as some of the other counties here in Hawaii have tried, and
that definitely won't work. So I think that's a not so good practice. It's very
well -meant, but I think it's not enforceable.
MR. RICHARDS: I appreciate that. And what I'm
MR. BUCHTA: Maybe I'm struggling with the answer, but I would say look at it
as a dynamic system and adjust as you go.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, kind of a work -in -progress.
MR. BUCHTA: As a work -in -progress.
MR. RICHARDS: Which then highlights that what weI think what we should
be doing as a Council, come back to your first slides, is identify what we're trying
to accomplish; what's the purpose, what's our goal, and then craft the legislation
around that. Is it to maintain communities? Is it to allow but minimally impact?
So that's a definition we've got to arrive at before we can actually come up with
something meaningful, but then also with the expectation that we're going to have
to adjust this as we get into it. Okay, thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. And now we go to Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you, Chair. And thank you so much for that
presentation. I mean, I'm sure everybody appreciates what you did because it's
makes it more real. It was a little bit more scared than I was first thinking it was,
and it's more than I thought it was, which is very, very disturbing. Because what
will our island look like in two years or maybe even one year? If we don't put
anything in place right now, what are we doing to our communities?
The developerI think I read somewhere, whether it was in the paper or whether
it was online, criticizing the way our homes were built. Like, it was built so
poorly, and what he's bringing in is like the best. Like what you had stated, and
basically saying it was ugly homes. But I just want to tell him, I'm so proud of
my plantation home that I grew up in. I love it. You know what, had holes in the
wall; that I could see the sun coming through the wall on some mornings.
Mosquitos coming in. We had to light mosquito punk, whatever it was. But you
know what, that's made us who we are today. We are so proud of that.
These people are coming, developing and over -developing, and chasing and
pushing out our local people because no rentals available for our local people in
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residential communities. They're turning residential communities into these
resort areas, which is unfortunate. We're going to lose who we are. We are
trying to preserve our cultural heritage, our lifestyle. There is room for
development; but like you said, in controlled areas, maybe? But we've really got
to consider how stiff we want to make this. Because if we're too lenient and
leaving some loopholes, we're still going to cause a lot of damage.
I don't want my grandchildren to come visit Hawaii, because they cannot live
here already. They moved to New York. They cannot afford it herein the
country side of New York. But come back and look at this place, and all it is, is
you come back to a tourist destination, and say, "Look, my grandmother was a
part of this." You know, we lost everything growing up here. And, here, us, the
lawmakers, are not doing, me—you know, we need to do something about it.
So I just want to thank you for opening up more of my eyes and seeing how
immediately we need to start putting this at the top of our priority, to make sure
that we can save this beautiful place we call Hawaii. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Ms. Ruggles and then Mr. Kanuha.
MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. Thank you for this. It was captivating and very
well put together. I have a couple of questions.
In the beginning, you mentioned that—to sort of set the context for the
presentation, there are entire blocks of residential neighborhoods, and people
rent them like hotels with no supervision, and the owners are often out of state.
And then, with the revenues by host -type graph here, it says six percent of the
hosts or commercial hosts that rent out two or more places and make 35 percent
of the revenue. But what I was looking at, is the commercial host. Are those the
ones that you're referring to as far as the ones that rent like hotels, and they live
out-of-state?
MR. BUCHTA: So, the name "hotel" is a strong name, right? They would not
call it a hotel if you asked them. But they're rooming houses; let's put it this way.
They're not a hotel, in the sense that they don't always have a bedroom right next
to, you know, the share bedroom. But yes, yeah, they are the type of host that
basically does not live in the structure and that keeps adding structures. You
know, next to a structure that they already have, using the capital that they make
from one structure, rolling it into the next structure. So, purely investor -type, you
know, investor type behavior.
MS. RUGGLES: Okay.
MR. BUCHTA: As opposed to home behavior.
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MS. RUGGLES:
Okay, great. So I just wanted to make sure that, that's only six
percent?
MR. BUCHTA:
That's only six percent.
MS. RUGGLES:
According to your—okay.
MR. BUCHTA:
Yeah, it's true. I looked across the island. They're not that hard
to find on the computer. Because you can match them up in the tax base, and
they're only six percent, yeah.
MS. RUGGLES:
Okay, thank you.
MR. BUCHTA:
But the whole six percent, big projects partially, you know. So
those are the ones
that will be more resistant to change, you know.
MS. RUGGLES:
Right. Does it say, as far as—okay, so the six percent are the
owners. Do you
have any stats on the amounts of rentals that they actually own?
MR. BUCHTA:
It's totally different. I would say the most owned three, on the
average.
MS. RUGGLES:
Of that six percent?
MR. BUCHTA:
The really bad ones own up toand no, 12. But most of them
own three or four.
MS. RUGGLES:
Okay, thank you.
MR. BUCHTA: They start usually with one house up on Hamakua. Then they
realize, "Well, Miloli`i kind of look similar, so why don't I try there?" And then,
they have another in Miloli`i. And then, the really small—in Kawaihae, down
there, looks like similar again. You know, near the beach—let's see. So if they
find an open house, then they'll move there. It's sort of random. Where, they can
find empty houses that they can add to their base. So, that's that kind of behavior.
But as they go on, they're now rapidly adding because they know the time is
running. For the ones that I've been observing, they're now adding one every six
months.
MS. RUGGLES: One every six months, thank you. These numbers here that you
have, these hot spots around the island, how did you get these?
MR. BUCHTA: Yeah, so what I did, is I pretended to be a human user, going to
AirBnB, and I had a list of the different cities. There's a Hawaii GIS
(Geographical Information System) project that's really great. It's run by the
State. So somebody put all the parcels, all the lots on the whole island into a file.
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I took that file, and I downloaded into a computer database. For every lot on the
whole island, I go to AirBnB, and see if there's anything around. You know, for
many lots they're not listed. They're like, you know, maybe some our
conservation and in the middle. So I find the ones that are around.
Then I start matching, and seeing if they're the same first name. For example, this
is Robert who runs this. Is there a Bob or Robert in the tax records of that lot?
That's basically how you do it. But sometimes it doesn't match because the host is
some realtor who is doing it for him. Then you try to match the shape of the house,
and you try to match the descriptions. Surprisingly, computers are good at this.
Only a few percent fall that you can't automatically match. So that whole data
basically matched all lots. Every single lot in the whole island, against all listings
on AirBnB. Then put them on a google map, so that's what you're looking at.
MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. So is this how you sort of mitigated for duplicate
listings?
MR. BUCHTA: Yeah. So one good thing—this list that you're looking at is only
AirBnB. When you go out to VRBO (Vacation Rental By Owner), HomeAway,
there is a leader of other companies. They're cleaning out as big as AirBnB.
AirBnB is the gorilla.
Then, you find lots of duplicates because there's big incentives to list them on
several. In fact, some of the commercial owners put up their own websites. This
one guy, with his hotel tower, he has a beautiful site with seven homes listed.
Three in Hawaiian Beaches, four in Keaukaha, it's all listed there. So, they create
their own websites too. So you're going to have lots of duplicate lists. But if you
stay just inside the AirBnB, in this case for these numbers, I did.
Then, it gets simple. There's not going to be many duplicates because you don't
start double -bookings. If you're going to, as an owner, have duplicates, then
you're going to have pain. Because somebody is going to go in and type in their
credit card, and you're going to have to call them and put that booking back. I
would say only those double -listings. But those I can field by computer because
they're on the same lot. So it's actually not it's good that you asked that
question. Because the people who have vested interest, they will push back on
these numbers hard. They will say, "Oh, there's only a few thousand. We don't
believe these numbers." Until you sit them down and zoom in on their own lot,
then they'll actually see it.
MS. RUGGLES: Yeah, I think it would be great to get a good breakdown of how
we got these numbers, so this is something that we can explain to the public as
being valid.
MR. BUCHTA: Right, yeah. But please handle those numbers with care because
I did not realize myself, people know the same, illegal. If such a map gets
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published, then they feel threatened. I moved those pins around subtly so that
they're not exactly on the property. So maybe if you publish it or somebody in
the County publish it officially, then maybe we can use these maps. But they're
sort of explosive.
MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. So just looking at it, I was actually pretty shocked
to see that there are probably about 1,000 in my district. I was wondering if you
happen to know of any numbers on economic activity, that these AirBnBs have
provided alone? Do you know of anyone who may have done a study like that?
MR. BUCHTA: Yeah, there's plenty of studies on the mainland, but I don't
know if they really apply. Because, especially in the Puna district, there's lots of
agriculture land -type vacation rentals that are quite unique. I don't know if they
compare to, like the cities, like in San Francisco. Having lived in San Francisco, I
don't think they compare. I think there's not a lot. But if you let me know what
kind of data you'd like to see, then I could maybe generate that.
MS. RUGGLES: Yeah, that is definitely something. Because we need to know
all of the data so that we can make a good decision to base upon it.
MR. BUCHTA: I mean, what's easy to calculate is we have the numbers, which
are whole -house rentals, that you can easily get. And you can generate tax
numbers and other things from that. You have ideas how we can
MS. RUGGLES: Yeah, I'm more looking atI'm interested in, how much do
they contribute in terms of the wraparound services that come with each vacation
rental?
MR. BUCHTA: Yeah. My census right now
MS. RUGGLES: That way we know the impact of the decision that we're
making.
MR. BUCHTA: They will definitely generate. And I've known—some people
anticipate the backlash, so they pay fairly good wages now. I've seen guys in
Kona that have multiple units on Alii Drive, and they pay $25 an hour for
cleaning in order to—so I think they're doing this in good faith to avoid this.
But what tends to happen, is I had a neighbor that got very worked up because I
was working on this and he didn't like the idea. His significant other was one of
the people cleaning in one of these places. So I asked the owner of this place,
"Did you employ her recently," and he's like, "Well, I haven't really needed for a
couple of months." So you will see, as these units are often empty and not yet
reliable places of work. I think the only way that you can make them reliable
places in communities, like Volcano, where there's so many of them, that people
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March 13, 2018
can go from one to the next. But they're not going to create permanent
employment yet because they're too fractured.
MS. RUGGLES: Okay, that brings me to my next question. You mentioned that
there might vacation rentals that are beneficial for the island, like in Volcano.
Because those are the kind that we might want to build markets around, and then
there are others that are taking houses off the market. So what is the criteria, in
your mind, that sets Volcano apart from other districts?
MR. BUCHTA: I think it's basically the character of the houses there. I mean,
Volcano is a design community to some extent. Isn't it? At least I feel that way.
When I go in there, the house is sort of built around the theme of the parks and the
ferns. So there is a sense of this is a design community. It's not like a community
like Keaukaha, that's sort of homegrown with lots of, you know, Hawaiian
residents still there and people actually fishing off the reef and the ponds. But it's
a community that embraces that artistic designs more than the organically -grown
sense. So I think it will be easier there to actually take it forward and make it
even more, you know, into an asset.
I also say that because—I've talked to many Volcano people about this. I ran into
one guy, he's doing frog control there, coqui frog control, and I thought he would
be a good person to talk to because he goes to everywhere. I asked him, "What
do you think about vacation rental?" He's like, "Yeah, sure." If you ask anybody
in our neighborhood, you know like, whoa, vacation rental. I think they'll
embrace it.
MS. RUGGLES: Yeah. So I think that's the important point of discussion, which
is what is these criteria of an appropriate place for them and a non -appropriate
place? And then start from there, as far as establishing our value system.
MR. BUCHTA: Yeah. Yeah, soI mean, one is support and tourist
infrastructure next to it, like the park that's already there. I think that's an
important criteria. Another one is, is there an infrastructure already? In Volcano,
there's an infrastructure. There's so many vacation rentals now, that there are
people—like one host has six vacation rentals that they're taking care of They
already have worked out how to go from house-to-house, how to change the
bedding, how to open the locks at the door, so there's services already in place
that have grown around it because it's so dense. You can take advantage and
enhance on that. When you already have that in place, it's a big asset.
MS. RUGGLES: Right. This is my last question; which is, what are your
qualifications?
MR. BUCHTA: Oh, this is a funny story. Because I don't really have any
background in government. This kind of has chosen me, this problem.
Sometimes you get chosen by probably my wife hates this because when I'm
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sitting at dinner, I'm talking about vacation rentals. She doesn't really appreciate
that very much. But you get chosen by problems. There's nothing you can do
about it. You know, I work for—most of my life, for Oracle Corporation in
Silicon Valley, so I was on the other end.
MS. RUGGLES: Oracle?
MR. BUCHTA: Oracle, Larry Ellison's company. I was a product manager. I
would talk to customers. I would do what I was doing here. I would go out; I'll
take a product that we had built, and I would go to customers all over the world
and I would find out what did they really think about this. Does this suck or is
this a great product? Management wants to know; do we put money into this or
don't we money into it? So they would send me, and I would go to Ikea, in
Sweden. I would sit down with the Ikea guys, telling me what you really feel
about this. And then I'd go back to Redwood City, and I would say, "Whoa, we
have a problem here. The developers think they're doing a great job." So this is
what I've done for many, many years.
I found that in this environment, it kind of—it's a very similar problem because
you're building the business case around something. You're doing it by actually
going on the ground, talking to people, creating data from the ground up.
MS. RUGGLES: Okay. I actually have another question here. You mentioned
that once houses are put to international tourist standards, that they will never be
converted back. What are the—there's actually a document that's called
International Tourist Standards?
MR. BUCHTA: No, I shouldn't have said—yeah, I don't know. I mean, the
people who are coming into these vacation rentals, coming out of hotel rooms,
right? That's their back—kind of the idea that they have. I talked to Doug
Arnott, from Arnott's Lodge. I was curious about something, about the same
idea. So I asked him, and he said, "I'm putting all these upgrades in now because
I have to compete. I'm bringing my rooms up to international standards." It
really is that notion that there is a standard that somebody expects. When they go
into a room, they expect, you know, a flat -screen TV to be there; in shared home,
that's not necessarily there. They expect a cooler with beer. If they are Chinese,
they expect hot water, because we heard Chinese people love to drink hot water
bottles.
MS. RUGGLES: Okay, but this isn't actually an official standard set by any
tourist organization?
MR. BUCHTA: No.
MS. RUGGLES: Okay.
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March 13, 2018
MR. BUCHTA: Because this is not actually a standard. I don't think anybody
has made that standard. Especially for short-term vacation rentals, it's still very,
very diverse. But you've got to have more of a city audience, right? I mean, their
backtalk is hotels and cities, and they will expect similar kinds of things.
MS. RUGGLES: Great. Thank you.
MR. BUCHTA: I do a lot of AirBnBs. I did nine last year. When I go into an
AirBnB room, I kind of expect a queen size bed. I don't why. But, yeah.
MS. RUGGLES: Thank you for the explanation, Mr. Buchta. I'll yield at this
time.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Ruggles. Council Members, I know we have
Mr. Kanuha, Ms. Eoff, and Ms. O'Hara left. But I just to remind you that
Mr. Buchta can always be—we can contact him. So if you have a specific
question, I'm thinking of our agenda, the other items we have on our agenda, so if
I could ask that you keep it kind of short and sweet on your questions. Thank
you. Go ahead, Mr. Kanuha.
MR. KANUHA: Thank you. Thank you, Stefan, for being here. I don't have
specific questions. It's just more of—finally I get to hear your presentation. I
know it was kind of held off one time.
This is great to know. Because I don't want to talk about the legislation that
is going to come up, but, you know, you hear—you've been hearing—we've
been hearing—or I've been hearing for the last several years the impacts that
these short-term vacation rentals are having on residential communities.
Especially in my district, where I have a lot of residential communities, you can
slowly see what `s happening in these communities. I never really knew the
numbers. But you have a neighbor that will call me—and now recently, since all
this stuff was happening, since the bill came out every single day you'll hear of
the negative impacts to our residential communities.
I love the way you put it earlier, that we embrace the good ones and we look at
how to curb the bad ones. I don't know if that was the exact language but that's
what I heard. I absolutely agree. You know there are places around this island
that these short-term vacation rentals are a positive impact on our residents and a
positive impact on the tourism industry. I really do think that we can find a way,
a unique way, for this County to promote these short-term vacation rentals, while
also holding in place a certain type of regulation. That's really what I always aim
for. You know, find the balance. Look at this entire island and find that unique
balance. This island is going to be different from Maui, which is going to be
different from Honolulu. Our island is going to be different from Kauai. So, it's
just figuring out that balance and working within the confines that we have here,
within our laws, and really taking a lead, you know. You look at the purposes and
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March 13, 2018
goals that you listed here, "Reign in the expansive short-term rental growth."
never even knew there were that many. I had no clue.
The legislation that is going forth was driven by, for me, driven by people calling
my office all the time, saying that there's a problem here. We need to do
something about it. They saw what happened on the other islands, and they see it
happening here. But now we actually have some data to back up what these
people were saying, every single time that they called my office.
So I loved this presentation is being presented to us, and I really look forward to
talking to you afterwards, about all the other stuff that you were talking about. I
really want to meet and talk story more.
You know, other purposes; maintain neighborhood character and unique field. I
live in one of the oldest subdivisions, or my family lives in one of the oldest
subdivisions in Kona. You see the housing being taken out and, you know, they
don't have any CC&Rs (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions), that they have an
active community association that can curb these vacation rentals within there.
So you'll, you know, see the vacation rental sign be popped out here and there.
It's taking away from—it's exactly doing what you said, taking away from
available housing, and that is a huge problem. I cannot even afford to a buy house
in Kona, or if find a house, at that.
Minimize impacts on residential areas, as what I just said. Enable economic
opportunities and support tourism. See this is the supporting part of short-term
vacation rentals. It is a unique thing, and we're now figuring out the opportunities
that these have for the tourism industry. I mean, we are at an all-time high right
now, and it's great. You know, there's a lot of jobs out there. There's a lot of
economic growth.
And at some point, we're going to be generating money for the County. There
isn't a separate category for this, but there should as hell might be after some
regulation goes through.
And really, I love the purpose of developing a vision for the role of these
home -share rentals in Hawaii County. That's really what we we're aiming to do,
and really look forward to working with this Council and hearing from the
community about how we make that vision and how we approach this.
I never had any questions now. I really want to talk to you in length about more
of this stuff, and that's where all of my questions are going to be. But thanks,
Ms. Lee Loy, for bringing this to the Council. And I really appreciate your
presentation and all the information that it provided. I yield.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kanuha. Ms. Eoff.
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March 13, 2018
MS. EOFF: Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to follow Mr. Kanuha, maybe
because we share the Kona district, maybe because we've worked on this. But I
just really wanted to thank you.
You gave us a lot of things to think about. You covered a lot of issues relating to
vacation rentals. But the thing that really struck me the most, I think, was seeking
this balance, and spoke very philosophically about our role as policymakers or
lawmakers. That it is our responsibility and our kuleana to find a win-win, where
we can mitigate impacts to our neighborhoods and yet see the appropriate need
for an alternative mode of—you know, for vacationers.
So I just wanted to thank you for making that point clear, and some of the other
the Alexander Hamilton quote. I mean, it kind of gave us a great perspective.
I'm sure we will look forward to more discussions with you and with each other
as we move along. So, mahalo. Mahalo, Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eof£ Ms. O'Hara, go ahead.
MS. O'HARA: Alright, thank you. And, Stefan Buchta? Okay, can I just call
you Stefan? I really, really appreciate the presentation. I, too, am a bit of data
nerd. So I really, really appreciate it.
You did reference, when you were giving us the raging popularity slide, you
know, the conditions that you had to place on the data, moving the actual
locations around a little bit and what not. I would love to be able to have access
to the full data. My district is Lower Puna, and if I'm reading your map correctly,
we have like 850 vacation rentals between Paradise Park, Hawaiian Beach Shores;
and Kapoho, which has turned into almost nothing. Especially the gated
community there, has really, really lost their sense of community, and I hear a lot
of complaints about that, as well.
It's also problematic because we have some of the older subdivisions on island.
There are some State laws. You referenced the one about homes built before
1973. There's also a reference in State law to subdivisions created before 1976,
and how this all affects the short-term vacation rental, legislation that we've come
with. So it's ever and always challenging to find the right mix. But I'm just
going to throw out, just a question, and it's based on other ways that other
counties have dealt with the short-term vacation rental. Would you care to offer
an opinion on whether it might be best to go with, say, a grandfathering system
versus a quota based system?
MR. BUCHTA: It's interesting to see other counties don't really have that notion
of grandfathering. That is something really unique to Hawaii. I've never heard
that term when I talk to anybody out there, really. But of course they have the
same problem, people are already there.
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Yeah, it's all quota based. What you see, yeah. But I think there was a technical
reason why grandfathering could be attractive, right? Because I think the type of
permit that could be given to people who grandfather has other implications in the
planning framework. I don't know, to put it that way, I don't know if the
semantics really matters at that point that much because eventually the—density
still acknowledges that somebody is already there. You're going to have to
decide to take somebody away or even stop it at the current level. Whether you
call it grandfathering, you call it concentration, I don't know if it will make a lot
of difference at the end.
MS. O'HARA: Well, thank you for that. I, too, would like to stay in touch and
talk more, so please feel free to share your contact information. Thank you.
MR. BUCHTA: Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Given that no one else's light is on,
Mr. Buchta, thank you very much for today's presentation. I think I need to also
say thank you to Ms. Lee Loy. I don't know how you found this gem of a data
person. I think you've basically clarified at least the vision of what this particular
issue is, and it's not a singular issue. It's like multi -issues that we have to be
mindful of when we entertain any solution.
So I'm very, very pleased, and I'm very happy to make to your acquaintance
today. We will keep in touch because I know that this is going to be a topic that is
not only important but it will be ongoing. So, thank you very much and have a
nice day, as we proceed with our agenda. Mahalo. Thank you.
First of all, all those in favor of filing Communication 744 please say "aye."
Vote on Comm. 744: The motion to close file on Comm. 744 was carried by
Filed the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy,
O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles, and
and Chair David – 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Chung – 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, may I have a motion to take, what is it,
Communication 114.4 off the table?
Page 20
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Vote on Motion to
Remove from Table:
(Approved)
March 13, 2018
Ms. Lee Loy moved to remove Comm. 114.4 from the
table. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles, and
Chair David — 7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Chung and O'Hara — 2.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Richards, I believe you had a question for Mr. Brilhante.
Would you please come forward?
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, Mr. Brilhante, come forward, please?
(Note: At this time, Human Resources Director William V. Brilhante and
Manager - Classification and Pay Division Jennifer Sakamoto came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. BRILHANTE: Good morning. William Brilhante, Director of Human
Resources.
MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Mr. Brilhante, for coming forward. I appreciate your
patience as we were going through the other presentation. Just for my own
edification, can you explain this document to us and what it covers?
MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. Again, good morning, Councilman Richards and
Council Members. William Brilhante, I'm with the Department of Human
Resources. I also brought with me today Ms. Jennifer Sakamoto, who is the
Classification and Pay division head.
Basically, pursuant to an ordinance, we're required to provide the Council with a
quarterly report, which reflects the total number of reallocations of the County
employment positions. And what a reallocation is, pursuant to the HR (Human
Resources) career ladder, or the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) merit principal,
generally each of the positions within the County has career ladder. So say for
example, like an engineer with the Department of Public Works, we have
Engineer I, II, III, and IV, and those classifications or those position descriptions
are defined by the skill level and the amount of responsibility and work they have.
So often times, say an engineer position, an Engineer III position becomes vacant,
it's very hard. There's some unique qualifications and characteristics and
requirements that may be only specific to an engineer who worked in the
government sector, who could meet those Engineer III level requirements.
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March 13, 2018
So what we do, is we reallocate the position down to maybe an Engineer II or
Engineer I, which is more of an entry level engineer position, which would afford
a better applicant poll to afford us the opportunity to, you know, through an open
competitive recruitment process, to bring in a well-qualified engineer, who
through gaining experience and time and just becoming more familiar with the
governmental process, is able to progress backup the career ladder, which would
then be an Engineer II or Engineer III.
So what this document specifically reflects, is you look at from October 2017
through December 17, this is the snapshot of all the reallocations that the County
has engaged in during that time.
And another really easy example, to articulate what we're talking about, say a
firefighter recruit, you know, he'll come in as a recruit. As he passes his
probation, he'll then progress to Firefighter L And then as he gets certified
through as an EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) or MICT (Mobile Intensive
Care Technician), then he moves up to a Firefighter EMS (Emergency Medical
Services) Specialist, and that's the career progression. That's primarily what this
document reflects.
If you go to page three, and then there's an attachment (page 4), it's entitled
Quarterly Reallocation Report Summary, and it looks like this. If you look over
here, that first column on the bottom, you see 43 in bold, for total, that's primarily
all the temporary reallocations that we've done for recruitment. Okay, so that's
the specific example that I articulated.
If you look at the next column, there's Permanent Reallocations. The permanent
reallocations are more inline with the information on page 3 of 3, which is—you
know, we take an assistantor take aagain, my example with the Civil
Engineer III, as articulated in the fourth column, would get reallocated up to a
Civil Engineer IV.
And then the one below that, we look at the Building & Grounds Utility Worker
for Parks and Recreation. Well, that one is kind of along the lines of—what
Ms. Sakamoto does, is there was a request made by Parks and Recreation that this
individual was performing work that was outside of his original scope of
responsibility. He was doing more. He was doing more repairs. He was doing
more kind of independent work. So Ms. Sakamoto and her assistant went out to
the zoo and did an audit of the position; and they did, they confirmed, you know,
through the report, through their investigation, that this individual was working
doing more work than what he was originally classified as. So then, the process
was that, we came back and we initiated the paperwork, or the department
initiated the paperwork, to reassign that individual to a building maintenance
worker. So that's second example of what is being captured in this reallocation
report.
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MR. RICHARDS: So then, on your example there, the $740, is that a raise that
goes to the individual? Is that how I'm reading that?
MR. BRILHANTE: If you look at itI just wanted to confirm. If you look at the
final comment column, it says Fiscal Year 17-18, that's that $5,180. That's the
total annual cost of the reallocation, so that's what the total annual increase in
salary that employee will receive.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And then converse, if you go up to Fire EMS, where
it's a negative, you have monthly. It goes down $602, down $5,400.
MS. SAKAMOTO: Jennifer Sakamoto, from HR. So yeah, that would mean that
there was a cost savings, and sometimes it's because of what's already budgeted
by the department. So it looks a little strange, that's why would there be cost
savings if a position is going up. But it's because maybe in their budget they
were budgeted at a higher rate. So, we rely on what the department provides us in
their packets.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Alright, I appreciate that. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Anyone else? None? Alright, then all
those in favor—thank you, Mr. Brilhante and Ms. Sakamoto. Thank you.
MR. BRILHANTE: Thank you. You're welcome.
CHR. DAVID: All those in favor of filing Communication 114.4 please say
Ic aye.
Vote on Comm. 114.4: The motion to close file on Comm. 114.4 was carried by
Filed the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David – 9.
Noes:
None.
Absent:
None.
Excused:
None.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, can we just move down the agenda and go to Order
of Resolutions? Please, Resolution 519-18?
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order
RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions.
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March 13, 2018
Res. 519-18: ACCEPTS PAYMENT OF IN -LIEU FEE IN THE AMOUNT OF $23,600 BY
WAINANI 42 LLC TO PARTIALLY SATISFY CONDITION "L" OF
ORDINANCE NO. 98-66
Partially satisfies the affordable housing requirement for the development of 50
units for Phase II of this development project, located at Puapua`a 1st and 2na
North Kona, covered by Tax Map Key: 7-3-010:027.
Reference: Comm. 782
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Poindexter moved to recommend adoption of
Res. 519-18. Seconded by Mr. Richards.
CHR. DAVID: I believe Mr. Gyotoku in the house and also Mr. Rodrigues, if
Council Members has any questions.
(Note: At this time, Housing and Community Development Administrator
Neil Gyotoku came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Gyotoku, would you like to say something? But if we
don't have questions thenoh, we might have questions after you give us a
brief—yeah, give us a brief explanation of the resolution. Thank you.
MR. GYOTOKU: Hi. My name is Neil Gyotoku. I'm the Housing
Administrator. This $26,600 is the second part of the in -lieu agreement, where
Wainani 42 provided fees for their development. This development is on the
bottom part of Ka`iminani, Kona.
CHR. DAVID: Okay, Mr. Kanuha, go ahead.
MR. KANUHA: How long is it going to take them to satisfy all the payment
in -lieu fees?
MR. GYOTOKU: This is the second payment; the second phase. I believe they
have a potential to develop 41 of 91 more units, and if they do so, then they would
have to pay a fee.
MR. KANUHA: Got you. So after every increment, it
MR. GYOTOKU: Right.
MR. KANUHA: Got you.
CHR. DAVID: Alright, anyone else? Ms. Eoff, go ahead.
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MS. EOFF: Can you quickly explain to us how the money being paid to you
helps us to build more affordable houses?
MR. GYOTOKU: As far as—it's a check that they provide to us, this resolution
would allow us to deposit into the Housing Revolving Fund. The Housing
Revolving Fund is approximately about $1 million and it can be used for any
housing projects within a 25 -mile radius of that Wainani. It can be used for things
to help other projects to be developed or to improve existing projects around that
area.
MS. EOFF: And that would be used within 25 miles
MR. GYOTOKU: Twenty -five -mile radius.
MS. EOFF: Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eoff Anyone else? Seeing none, all those in
favor please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 519-18: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 519-18 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David – 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Gyotoku.
MR. HENRICKS: Madam Chair, shall we do Resolution 522-18, while
Mr. Gyotoku is at the table?
CHR. DAVID: Oh, yes. Great idea. Go ahead.
Change Order of As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
Business: the following item was taken out of order:
Page 25
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March 13, 2018
Res. 522-18: ACCEPTS FINAL PAYMENT OF IN -LIEU FEES IN THE AMOUNT OF
$50,000 BY KW KONA INVESTORS, LLC, TO SATISFY CONDITION "B"
OF ORDINANCE NO. 87-113
Completes payment on a $100,000 in -lieu fee affordable housing requirement
to allow for the development of 50 hotel units at Ka`upulehu, North Kona,
covered by Tax Map Key: 7-2-010:010.
Reference: Comm. 783
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Poindexter moved to recommend adoption of
Res. 522-18. Seconded by Ms. Eoff
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Gyotoku.
MR. GYOTOKU: Again, this is like an in -lieu payment agreement, from the
KW Kona Investors, and basically it was for the development of Kona Village.
This is the second part of the payment.
CHR. DAVID: Okay, alright. Ms. Eoff, did you
MS. EOFF: Same situation as the Housing Fund?
MR. GYOTOKU: Yes, exactly. Within 25 miles, it goes into the Revolving
Fund.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much. Seeing no other discussion, all those in
favor please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 522-18: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 522-18 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Gyotoku.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business.
of Business:
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, could you read Resolution 520-18?
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March 13, 2018
Res. 520-18: AUTHORIZES THE PAYMENT OF FUNDS OF A LATER FISCAL YEAR
AND OF MORE THAN ONE FISCAL YEAR FOR A MULTI-YEAR LEASE
OF REAL PROPERTY FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII OFFICE OF THE
LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR
Authorizes the Mayor to enter into a five-year lease agreement with New
Kaiko`o Building, Inc., beginning May 1, 2018, with an option for a five-year
extension, for space in the Bank of Hawaii Building located at 120 Pauahi
Street, Hilo. The expected cost of this lease is $1,838.20 per month.
Reference: Comm. 785
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Mr. Richards moved to recommend adoption of
Res. 520-19. Seconded by Ms. Eoff
(Note: At this time, Property Manager Hamana Ventura and Legislative
Auditor Bonnie Nims came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
CHR. DAVID: Thank you. And I believe we have Legislative Auditor here and
Mr. Ventura. Any questions, Council Members? If not, I will not call
MR. RICHARDS: I'll ask her a quick question.
CHR. DAVID: Okay, Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: They came all this way, right?
CHR. DAVID: Thank you for being very patient. Mr. Ventura, identify yourself.
And I believe Mr. Richards has a question.
MR. VENTURA: Good morning, members of the Council. Hamana Ventura,
Property Manager.
MS. NIMS: Bonnie Nims, Legislative Auditor.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you for coming up really quick. Just a question. So
am I understanding, this is moving the office from where you currently are?
MS. NIMS: Correct.
MR. RICHARDS: And from what I know, you've been working on this lease just
to make—this works better for the County. Explanation, is this a better place?
Probably easier to find when we're looking for you.
MS. NIMS: Closer, anyway.
Page 27
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Vote on Res. 520-18
(Approved)
March 13, 2018
MR. VENTURA: As I stated earlier, Hamana Ventura, Property Manager. Sort
of similar situation to yours, finding a space that works better. More convenient
structure -wise. It's a similar situation.
MR. RICHARDS: And as far as rent, we're on power with that?
MR. VENTURA: Comparable.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Alright, thank you. I yield.
CHR. DAVID: Ms. Ruggles, go ahead.
MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. What is the rent that you're paying now?
MS. NIMS: Our current is about $2,000 a month.
MS. RUGGLES: Okay, so this is actually less than that?
MS. NIMS: Yeah, I think actual rent is $1,930 a month, and then the CAM
(Common Area Maintenance) is on top of that.
MS. RUGGLES: Okay, great. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Ruggles. And if there's no more questions?
Thank you, Mr. Ventura and Ms. Nims. Alright, all those in favor please say
Ic aye.
The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 520-18 was
carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Resolution 521-18.
Page 28
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Res. 521-18
Motion to Approve:
March 13, 2018
AUTHORIZES THE PAYMENT OF FUNDS OF A LATER FISCAL YEAR
AND OF MORE THAN ONE FISCAL YEAR FOR A MULTI-YEAR LEASE
FOR FIVE DIGITAL MULTI -FUNCTION COPY MACHINES FOR THE
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT
Authorizes the Mayor to enter into a five-year lease agreement for five copiers
at an approximate monthly cost of $300 each. Four copiers would replace
units at various Solid Waste scalehouses and baseyards and one copier would
be used at the Pu`uanahulu scalehouse.
Reference: Comm. 784
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Ms. O'Hara moved to recommend adoption of
Res. 521-19. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter.
CHR. DAVID: Any discussion? Ms. O'Hara.
MS. O'HARA: Well, I see we have Solid Waste Chief here, and perhaps he just
wants to say few words about this.
CHR. DAVID: He was also patient this whole morning.
(Note: At this time, Solid Waste Division Chief Greg Goodale came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Goodale.
MR. GOODALE: Yeah, good morning. Greg Goodale, Solid Waste Division. I
don't really have anything more to add. But if you have any questions, I'm happy
to answer them.
MS. O'HARA: I don't really have any questions. These are just needed
replacements. Apparently, they aren't very pricey and they're not adding or
enhancing the services provided in any way. Or, are they?
MR. GOODALE: They do. This has actually been the direction that a lot of the
different—not only our department but around the County people have been
going in this direction with this type of equipment. Doing the multi-year, which
allows for the upgrades as opposed going into like a purchase situation, where we
wind up with a piece of equipment that gets outdated. So this has actually been
the preferred way of going through this. So we believe this is an improvement.
MS. O'HARA: Okay, thank you. Nothing further, Chair.
CHR. DAVID: Anyone else? No? Well, thank you, Division Chief Goodale, for
waiting all this morning.
Page 29
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Vote on Res. 521-18
(Approved)
Change Order of
Business:
March 13, 2018
The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 521-18 was
carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and
and Chair David — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Ruggles - 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Alright, Mr. Clerk, can we skip over Bill 113 and go
to Bill 114, please? Okay now, Bill 114.
As directed by the Chair and with objection from the Council Members, the
following items were taken out of order:
Bill 114: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 17-39, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
ENDING JUNE 30, 2018
Increases revenues in the Federal Grants — Housing Choice Voucher Program
account ($2.5 million); and appropriates the same to the Voucher Rental
Subsidies account, for a total appropriation of $17.5 million. Funds would be
used for payment of rental assistance for eligible participants.
Vote on Bill 114
(Approved)
Reference: Comm. 781
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Mr. Richards moved to recommend passage of Bill 114 on
Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Bill 115, please?
Page 30
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March 13, 2018
Bill 115: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 17-39, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
ENDING JUNE 30, 2018
Decreases the appropriation in the Geothermal Other Current Expenses account
($30,000); and appropriates the same to the Geothermal Parks and Recreation
account. Funds would be used by the Department of Parks and Recreation to
provide access to computers and wireless internet connection (Wi-Fi) at the
Pahoa Community Center.
Reference: Comm. 786
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Ruggles moved to recommend passage of Bill 115
on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter.
CHR. DAVID: And I believe we have Deputy Arai in chambers, if anyone has
questions. If not—Ms. Ohara?
MS. O'HARA: Yes.
CHR. DAVID: Okay.
MS. O'HARA: We have discovered there's an issue with this in terms of the
wording. Mr. Arai, can you come forward, please? Our Deputy Director and
Finance Director, and we were discussing out in the hall.
(Note: At this time, Deputy Planning Director Daryn Arai and
Administrative Services Officer Douglas Ley came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
CHR. DAVID: Okay, go ahead.
MS. O'HARA: Just some background. You heard testimony from Ms. Hazel
earlier. And to put this all together, we had back in '08, a Geothermal
Community Benefit funding for conversion of what was then the old fire station
in Pahoa to the senior center. I think there was some $187,000 allocated for that
conversion, and not all of it was used. That's the $71,000 that she keeps referring
to, is in a CIP account with Parks and Recreation.
But this is a project that I've been working on for over year -and -a -half, or about a
year -and -a -half, to get the senior center equipped with Wi-Fi because it wasn't
provided when the conversion was done. Ms. Ruggles has already allocated some
contingency funds from her account for fixing the Wi-Fi at the community center.
These are two separate facilities, separated by a parking lot. So, that's already in
the works. This is for not only the Wi-Fi and getting the connectivity for the
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March 13, 2018
senior center, but also to purchase the computers so that we can start giving
classes to the seniors at the senior center.
In a meeting that was held in December, I believe it was, with Ms. Hazel and
Sarah Steiner—it was also about an agreement that Parks and Recreation entered
into for Second Saturdays. It was clear that we couldn't move the $71,000 from
the CIP account to an operations account. Because the work that we're trying to
do is operational, it's not CIP. The Director of Finance was there. She went
across the hall and asked Mr. Yee if he'd be willing to release another $30,000 to
do this project, from the Geothermal Community Benefit Fund.
Now, normally those requests come in from the representatives of the
geographical district, which would be either myself or Ms. Ruggles, but this was
done by the administration, and somehow in preparation of this bill, that language
about the senior center seems to have been dropped out. So, I just want to be
clear. Because this money is not intended for the Pahoa Community Center, or
what we call the Neighborhood Facility is the actual correct name, it's intended
primarily for the senior center. So that's kind of the background, and I'll let
Deputy Director inform us further.
MR. ARAI: Good morning, Committee Members, Chair David.
CHR. DAVID: Good morning.
MR. ARAI: My name is Daryn Arai, Deputy Planning Director. On my left, is
Douglas Ley, who is the Administrative Services Officer for our department.
Bill 115 was sort of structured around communication we received from
Department of Parks and Recreation, which misidentified the Pahoa Community
Center as the recipient for the funds and for the Wi-Fi service. We were able to
verify with Parks and Recreation, Roxie Waltjen, the Director, that it was
intended to be the Neighborhood Center, facility center that would be for which
the funds would be appropriated. I was able to get ahold of the Planning Director,
as well, to get his concurrence; that the funds be identified to the Neighborhood
Facility Center, and he did concur.
Hopefully, with those reassurances in mind, and we believe that Bill 115 is
generic enough. That it didn't specifically identify the Pahoa Community Center
as the sole recipient. It's generic enough that we think, just by virtual of
confirming the original intent, and hopefully it'll be sufficient that no further
amendment to Bill 115 is necessary.
MS. O'HARA: I'm going to say I have to disagree with that. You have not once
mentioned the senior center. These are different facilities. The Pahoa
Neighborhood Facility is different than the senior center.
Page 32
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March 13, 2018
MR. ARAI: Oh, okay.
MS. O'HARA: Yeah. And the reason I say this, is the original allocation that
came out in 2008 specified intended uses for that CIP funding that was taken from
the Geothermal Community Benefit Fund.
MR. ARAI: Sure.
MS. O'HARA: We are beholden to those uses. And so I think it does need to be
amended to be specific to the senior center because this was—or you could say,
senior center and community neighborhood facility, if you wanted to expand that
way.
MR. ARAI: Oh, okay. And I'm sorry I misspoke. I guess I got caught off -guard
when the names changed during the introduction. I'm just familiar with the
community center and the senior center, so I'll just leave as that. Let me correct
myself. My understanding is that Wi-Fi services or equipment for the community
center is—has recently been completed, from what I understand.
MS. O'HARA: Correct, and that is with the funding that Ms. Ruggles
MR. ARAI: Right, so
MS. O'HARA: That was a repair because of some damage done in 2014, when
we had lots of meetings there for the lava response.
MR. ARAI: Right. You know, obviously—with the equipment being available at
the community center, obviously the intention of this bill was to provide funding
for Wi-Fi services at the senior center. That being said, it was confirmed with
Director Waltjen, confirmed with Director Yee, they're all good. So hopefully
that along with the Bill 115 being generic enough, that we believe it could support
it with this clarification. I'll leave it at your hands at this point. But I just wanted
to reassure from the administration standpoint, we believe we can support
Bill 115 as written.
MS. O'HARA: Okay, I'm glad we're in agreement. I would like to see the
proper names used for the facilities. You know, you go down the road, five years,
and people can start arguing over this kind of minutia. I know we're on the same
page right now, and I'm really happy about that. But we have two more reads for
this bill, so it should be easy to do a simple amendment and put the right
terminology in there, if you don't mind. Or I could take it on, I don't know;
however you want to do it.
MR. ARAI: Sure. One way or the other, we'll figure a way to define it more
specifically in the bill. Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you.
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March 13, 2018
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Mr. Kanuha.
MR. KANUHA: Yeah, and just kind of going off of that. With the bill itself, you
know, I mean it doesn't specifically have that fund source. You know, it's going
from Geothermal OCE (Other Current Expenses) to Geothermal Relocation and
Community, and then function and activity, Geothermal Parks and Recreation,
and the fund, Geothermal Relocation and Community. So I'm just trying to
figure out where within those confines are you going to put the actual terminology
for the—either—see, I don't want to say community center. Or is it just the
background communication, where it's talking about the Pahoa Community
Center or, you know, the request for conciliation part. Is that theI'm just
figuring out if it really matters within the actual bill itself.
CHR. DAVID: Yes, Mr. Kanuha. Go ahead, Ms. O'Hara.
MS. O'HARA: Well, if we're talking—in response to that, if we're talking a
legal interpretation, you could ask Mr. Kamelamela. But my experience with the
pre-existing resolution, was that it's all defined in this communication and this
background sheet, and either of them contain the name Pahoa Neighborhood
Facility and Pahoa Senior Center. That's what I'm asking to be changed, so it is
clear where we're spending the money, yeah.
MR. KANUHA: Yeah, got you. How many computers does the $30,000 buy?
MS. O'HARA: It's not just computers.
MR. KANUHA: And the wireless internet.
MS. O'HARA: Yeah, there's at least about $10,000 in hardware that needs to go
into the senior center to support all this. The last quote on the computers was
about $10,000 or more. The $30,000 was allocated because we—those quotes are
already 15 months old, so they have to be redone. We expect the prices to be a
little bit higher. We just wanted to be sure we had enough money to finish the
project. We may have a little excess. We're not sure at this point in time.
MR. KANUHA: And so how many computers again?
MS. O'HARA: Oh, I think—yeah, I haven't visited this quote in a really long
time. I'm going to say off the top of my head 20, but I may be wrong on that.
MR. KANUHA: I yield.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kanuha. Ms. O'Hara, are you—okay. Anyone
else? Okay, all those in favor of Bill 115 please say "aye."
Page 34
FC -29 March 13, 2018
Vote on Bill 115: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 115 on
(Approved) first reading was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Deputy and Mr. Ley. Alright, please, our last item,
I believe, is Bill 113.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business.
of Business:
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
(Note: Items in this category were taken up previously, out of order.)
Bill 113: AMENDS CHAPTER 2 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016
EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY ADDING A NEW ARTICLE RELATING
TO COMMERCIAL SPONSORSHIP OF COUNTY ASSETS
Establishes a process for individuals, corporations, and other organizations to
obtain sponsorships for County facilities, parks, programs, equipment, and
tangible property in exchange for financial considerations to increase County
revenue from sources other than real property tax.
Reference: Comm. 780
Intr. by: Ms. Lee Loy
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend passage of Bill 113 on
first reading. Seconded by Mr. Richards.
CHR. DAVID: Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair, members of the Committee. Lucky Bill 113.
This bill actually is something that other municipal use in a way to generate
additional revenues for maintaining County assets. What I did was, is take a look
at what those other municipalities did. One example we have, most recently, is
what the Honolulu Zoo did to help provide for funding for their various exhibits
in their zoo.
What I did, is create a framework. That basically, if we could invite community
partners to the table to help us maintain some of our aging infrastructure, some of
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March 13, 2018
our County assets, this would be a vehicle for them. As a qualifier, it's a $20,000
buy -in. I picked that number because it was my hope that a sponsor would be
committed, and that number I wanted to set rather high. Because if you're
coming with that kind of money, you're committed helping the facilities.
I also put in safeguards related to how a sponsor could be recognized, ensuring
that we would adhere to our sign ordinance, which has strict rules and regulations
in and of itself. It would also ensure that a facility would be named or continued
to be named through the process that we already have by the Council. So for
example, a sponsor could not step in and rename Edith Kanaka`ole Tennis
Stadium. All of those controls would be maintained.
If a sponsor was interested, first step would be, is to work out a sponsorship
agreement with the director of that department. So for example, with Parks, the
sponsor would hammer out an agreement on what they would choose to sponsor,
what they would get in exchange for that sponsorship. Once that agreement is
hammered out between the department director and Corporation Counsel, it will
be then further reviewed by the Department of Finance because this will be
revenues into the County. And what we wanted to do, is ensure that revenue that
the sponsor was hoping to enhance the facility with would stay there and it
wouldn't fall into some general fund to be further moved around.
And then the final and third safeguard was, once that sponsorship agreement was
hammered out between the department director, and then with Finance, this body
would then have to further adopt that sponsorship agreement by resolution, in
which there would be a larger public review process.
I did provide in this bill some other safeguards about sponsorship recognition,
branding, publicity, and advertising, which is contained in Section 2, Sponsorship
Agreement, letter (f), just to ensure that, you know, it will be in concert with the
community and just limiting slanderous or defamation or libelous types of
information.
I don't know of any sponsor right now who would take this on. But I don't think
it hurts to have a vehicle somewhere in our Code. And, who knows? Who knows
who might be able to use this at a later time? It is creative. It is innovative. I feel
that these are the types of policies that we can put out there and maybe invite
sponsors for different programs, different facilities. I'm open to any suggestions
and your feedback. I yield at this time, thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Questions? Mr. Richards, go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. DAVID: You're welcome.
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March 13, 2018
MR. RICHARDS: Ms. Lee Loy, couple questions, and I'll just kind of cluster
them all together. What is your vision as far as one of these? You discussed
some metrics, but are we talking about—like in Seattle, you have Safeco Field. I
think it's a football stadium there. Is your thought process along those lines? I
didn't see anything here about a time -constraint. So say if you had a sponsor that
wanted to put their name on the sports field, for instance, for "x" number of times,
is that something that you wanted to leave up to the department heads? To put a
timeline on that, or you want to leave it a little loose? Just give me your thoughts
on that, please?
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. That's an excellent question. I think the safeguard
is, the facility wouldn't change. The name of the facility wouldn't change. So it
wouldn't become Verizon Tennis Stadium. It would remain Aunty Edith
Kanaka`ole Tennis Stadium.
However, as far as the timeline, that is all very negotiable between the Director.
Part of that reason I wanted to leave it a little flexible is because I could not even
begin to understand the age of the infrastructure, of that facility, and what the
overall needs are. That would actually be best handled by that department.
So for example, sponsoring a scoreboard, that's all well and good. But would we
need to address upgrading our electrical components to that facility? Perhaps.
Does it fit within that facility, the power for that new scoreboard? That's
something that should be addressed by that department, and could be further, kind
of re -tooled or further discussed within that sponsorship and that sponsorship
agreement. Because one, we want to enhance the facility, but we also want to
ensure that facility doesn't get stuck with something that doesn't fit or they can
never really use to maintain or enhance that facility, which is the purpose of this
bill.
As far as timelines again, hammered out with the department. The safeguards are
sponsorship agreement with the department, reviewed by the Finance Director,
and then confirmed by the Council. So very transparent, open process. All of that
questions could be worked out long before it even gets to us.
MR. RICHARDS: Can I follow-up?
CHR. DAVID: Sure, go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: In your vision, you know, let's take Edith Kanaka`ole
Stadium, are you thinking it would be the Edith Kanaka`ole Stadium sponsored
by, with the signage underneath? Something along that line?
MS. LEE LOY: It could be. Or we could do whatever things we hold at that
facility. The programs would actually have a tennis tournament at Edith
Kanaka`ole Stadium, sponsored by Dr. Tim Richards, within the program. But
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March 13, 2018
again, this would all be hammered out within the sponsorship agreement. About
what is allowable, what is not allowable; what the sponsor wants in exchange,
agreed to by the department; further confirmed by the Finance Director, and then
further understood by this body.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. I think this isI'm going to support this
because this is a good direction to be going. When you start talking about
financing outside of our current bucket, so looking and being mindful of that. I
can see where it can be done very tastefully and very done well, if we do it
appropriately going forward. I like the concept as a whole. Little concern about
some of the metrics that I mentioned, but I think those are workable. So at this
point, I yield.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Ruggles.
MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. I just have a question. Under Section 2(e), it says,
"Sponsorship recognition shall not constitute a public forum for communication
and debate." I was wondering what you meant by that? Because when we look at
what it was required, we have to hear a resolution, which would require public
comment and maybe debate amongst ourselves. So yeah, I'm just having trouble
putting the dots together.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. I think if you back up from that sentence, the public
recognition of commercial sponsorship envisioned, this agreement is not intended
to create a public forum for communication or debate, it actually prefaced by it,
should be appropriate and not distract or detract from the public's experience. So
I think that actually speaks to design guidelines for that community or for that
facility. We have a number of facilities that are kind of older, and there's some
characteristic traits within those facilities. And what we want to do is create
something that actually enhances that but doesn't detract from that experience.
So I wouldn't anticipate someone stepping in, for example, to Liliuokalani
Gardens with a big billboard sign. The safeguard is we have a sign ordinance that
would prohibit that. Then as we step through this process, we could create that
same design guidelines, through the sponsorship agreement, assuming that
sponsor is willing to adhere to those things. Working with the department head,
reviewing it with the Finance Director, and then confirmed by the Council. I hope
that answers your question. No?
MS. RUGGLES: No, it doesn't. I'm sorry. But that's okay, it's not that urgent.
I was just confused about the sponsorship recognition constituting a public forum
for communication and debate, yeah, I just don't understand what that means.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and I think—you have to taken in the whole context of
this (f) paragraph, right? Is that, we don't want it to stick out, right? We wanted
to enhance that facility, right?
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March 13, 2018
MS. RUGGLES: I see. I see, okay. Okay, thank you.
MS. LEE LOY: A big billboard at Liliuokalani is not what we want to achieve.
MS. RUGGLES: Right.
MS. LEE LOY: We want to keep it all in context. I mean, earlier we heard
conversations about how we want to keep certain communities in a rural
character. It would be kind of community -driven. It would be in connection, and
dovetailed into that particular facility and not stick out like a sore thumb.
MS. RUGGLES: Great. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Ruggles. Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Thank you. You know, I support this idea, and I'm going to
voting in favor of it. I just have a few questions, and they relate to the fifth
unnumbered Section 2, and subsections (b) and (c). Maybe, Joe, if you can come
up? Page 3, under Sponsorship Agreement.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela and Deputy
Corporation Counsel J Yoshimoto came forward to address the members
of the Committee.)
MR. CHUNG: Now, under this arrangement, Ms. Lee Loy has developed
something, whereby the administrative head with the concurrence of the Director
of Finance shall have the authority to enter into the agreement. And then later on
it says, "All sponsorship agreements must be approved by the council by
resolution." So maybe I should I ask Ms. Lee Loy first. Is this something where
the agreement is entered into by the administration and then ratified by the
Council, or approved by CouncilI mean, authorized by the Council and then
entered into? What's first?
MS. LEE LOY: Hammered out with the department, reviewed by the Finance
Director. I guess the word is ratified. I'm going to look at Mr. Yoshimoto, who
really helped me kind of craft some of this language. Yes, that was the intent.
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
MS. LEE LOY: What was—this agreement.
MR. CHUNG: Right.
MS. LEE LOY: I think, part of that too, was the expectation of the sponsor.
Because the buy -in was so big, we wanted to ensure that what they were
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March 13, 2018
contributing to was enhancing that facility in a meaningful way. But they were
actually getting recognition for that.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Well, maybe if I could just make a suggestion, okay?
Go take a look at this over the next two weeks. Talk with Corporation Counsel.
If this is what you want, I'm okay with it. But what causes some short-circuit in
my brain is that it's an agreement entered into by a department head. There might
be some other situations in the County, where we have department heads
entering into agreement. But I know, specifically, you know, I have the
County Charter here, and it specifically says that contracts will be signed by the
Mayor unless otherwise authorized. But I'm assuming that otherwise authorized
means something otherwise authorized within the context of the Charter. So why
is it—and again, I'll support it whatever way you guys want, but why is it the
department head that is entering into the agreement rather than the Mayor?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Joseph Kamelamela, Corporation Counsel. Good
afternoon, Chair and members of the Council. So anyway, I have my deputy here,
who actually worked with Council Member Lee Loy. He's been hitting me,
saying, "Let me answer this question." So, go right ahead.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Council Member Chung, that's an excellent question. So
the expectation isoh, I'm sorry. J Yoshimoto, Deputy Corporation Counsel.
Thank you, Council Member Kanuha. You think I would have gotten that one
down, right? Okay.
Anyway, Council Member Chung, the expectation isas you mentioned, the
Charter specifies the Mayor would enter into contractual agreements, and so the
expectation here is, that will continue to be the same. So maybe to make it
clearer, we can add that language. Because that is in the Charter, like you
mentioned, and so in thinking—in working through this process, that was already
the presumption that's what we do with all agreements, where the Mayor would
sign off on. But I think you raised a good point, and that since we're specifying
the administrative head. And typically, you'll have the department sign off along
with the Mayor, right, with agreements as well. So, this is no different. But I
think, Council Member Lee Loy, just to be clear, we can add that language.
MR. CHUNG: Because it specifically says here, the administrative head of the
County department shall have the authority to enter into the sponsorship or a
sponsorship agreement. I'm thinking, I could be wrong, maybe the best way of
doing this is have it negotiated by the administrative head and then come to the
Council for approval and then go to the Mayor for his signature, like we do with
almost every other contract. But that's just food for thought. I'll support this no
matter how you guys—
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, yeah.
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March 13, 2018
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Mr. Kanuha, go ahead.
MR. KANUHA: Just trying to figure out how we currently go through
sponsorships that are—like our County events, if somebody wants to donate
money, and usually they'll put like a big sign somewhere, saying—no? They'll
put their sign. It doesn't say sponsor by whoever? They'll put like a sign on the
fence, saying that they'reI mean, it might be legal. But currently, you know,
does thatI mean, I know I've seen it before. That happens. But is that
allowable under—you know, they'll put their sign or whatever on the fence of a
baseball game? It might not be enforced if that's not legal. But is that allowable?
Is it?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Council Member Kanuha, I believe what you're talking
about, and correct me if I'm wrong, are events that are specific in time. Say like a
soccer game by any field, by a particular organization will put up their banner
because it's related to the event. So it's basically saying, x, y, z, is having their
soccer tournament. Is that what you're referring?
MR. KANUHA: This is completely different, correct?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Right. So, they do that. They usually get permission, from
usually it's from the Parks department, and the Park usually allows it because it's
close it in time. It's not there for, like, years, right? It's there for a few years?
MR. KANUHA: So this sponsorship would be there in perpetuity with the
agreement, if the agreement is worked out that way?
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. You know, I'll let Mr. Yoshimoto weigh in. There
are specific craft fairs at the tennis stadium. April 1 st through the 7th, right?
Specific time, they get permission. This is something separate and apart for any
County assets.
We're focused on parks right now, but we've got a golf course. There's a number
of other County assets, gyms, you know. This is something very separate and
apart from just the tiny little snapshot in time in which they're advertising for an
event in which they already got permission from. This is something with a large
buy -in and then an agreement.
I do want to comment on what Mr. Chung said. I really do actually appreciate
that. I like when we kind of have a model already and get right back into that
same train -of -thought so that there's an expectation. So that idea of negotiated,
you know, Council, and thenI like that. I'll be working with Mr. Yoshimoto on
that.
MR. KANUHA: Thank you. Thanks for the clarification. I think this is a really
unique way of trying to figure out some of this. You know, budgetary, you know,
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March 13, 2018
trying to enhance whatever it is that they might—where the money might be
going to. Do any other counties, Honolulu, I'm assuming, is the legislation
similar to that? If so, how well is that program working?
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, so we learned both the ups and downs of these
sponsorship agreements. Maui County had something similar. And the Outdoor
Circle, they're pushed back incredibly hard.
But we have a sign ordinance here, which we identify in the sponsorship
agreement, that is vey restrictive. We also have, even something like Kailua
Village Design area. All of those safeguards stay intact, so that we don't turn into
billboard city.
The most recent model was the Honolulu Zoo, and they had enhanced a number
of their exhibits. Whether it's the giraffes, or the turtles, or the snakes, they have
a sponsorship agreement, kind of built around that exhibit, that really enhances
them.
So, I did—and I worked, I would say the better part of six months, with
Mr. Yoshimoto, looking at all the different municipalities; what was working,
what wasn't working; ensuring that the safeguards were in place for us, while still
maintaining what is incredibly special to these County facilities. I'm going to call
them "assets" because they are our public assets, and I gave a lot of thought to
ensuring that.
MR. KANUHA: Thank you. And really, you know, with the language here,
we won't really know the full outcome of a particular agreement until it
actually comes out, correct? Until it comes to the Council, we can see the impacts
or the benefits or whatever it is, and then at that point and time then we'll have
the—we'll go through that process. That'll be interesting to see. I'm actually
hoping that somebody does this, I mean, if this thing passes. That additional
conversation. Okay, thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kanuha.
MR. KANUHA: Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Ms. Eof£
MS. EOFF: Thank you. My question is—well, I've seen, for instance, I think it
was the Maui Arts and Cultural Center, which I think is a private -public
partnership facility. But they have like a wall with—they're sort of like
uniform -looking plaques, so people who donated to that facility have their name
on the plaque. This is reallyI don't think designed to end up looking like that,
but that in my mind, might be one way to keep it more consistent.
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March 13, 2018
The problem that I am kind of worried about isso for instance someone may
decide to provide $20,000 to a County facility, and you said that rather than
change the name of the facility, it might just carry their name as a sponsor. But
then, what if the following year or even six months later someone else wants
$20,000 to that? So do you keep adding their names, if that's what they want to
be recognized for, or do we create sort of a uniform looking, I'm not sure what to
call it, way of acknowledging these donations? Were you thinking of that, too?
MR. KAMELAMELA: So can I just partly answer that?
MS. EOFF: Yeah, sure.
MR. KAMELAMELA: There is a section in here; if you look at theI guess
it's page three. Well, it's not numbered. But if you look towards the middle,
there's a subsection (c), so these sponsorship agreements can be exclusive or
non-exclusive. As we work through the sponsorship agreement, you know, that's
something that we can make a decision on, you know, right away.
MS. EOFF: Exactly what the
MR. KAMELAMELA: It's going to be exclusive, one, or non-exclusive, you
know, that we add on.
MS. EOFF: Like, for instance, if a sponsor wanted to buy a scoreboard for a
gymnasium and that was $20,000, so I guess forever that scoreboard could carry
their name somewhere on it as opposed someone who may contribute in a more
general way. That might include multiple sponsors in the future.
MR. KAMELAMELA: But I think the amount that we're looking at is something
more than $20,000.
MS. EOFF: The minimum is $20,000.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, the minimum was $20,000. Yeah, not $10,000.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Great question. So that depends upon how the
administration wants it and what the Council wants, to plan forward; meaning, if
you're thinking about a big project like a big venue, then you would make it
non-exclusive and you have a plan as far as lining up "x" amount of sponsors to
raise "x" amount of money, right? So that would be a great idea for that. The
other end of the scale, is like you mentioned that the scoreboards paid is $20,000,
something to that effect.
So this really is, I think, an excellent planning tool forward. Say we want a new
area, or a sports field, or recreational area, or park, right, we can do that on a
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March 13, 2018
different scale, if we get public and private partnerships. Or, like you said, have
the scoreboards, or the new nets for field, you know, things like that.
MS. EOFF: Like, that was actually my next question, was how we could get
multiple sponsors to contribute to an actual CIP proposal, correct? And I think
that's what struck me, when I saw the Maui Arts and Cultural Center. Was, how
did they do this? I mean, it's like a magnificent facility. And then, I found out
that it was initiated by a private citizen but it turned into being a government,
private partners, collaborative approach, and then they fundraised from various
donors. I thought that was a unique possibility. And we haven't really explored
yet, in this County. I don't think so.
Well, thanks for your work on this. I haven't really digested all of it, but I'm just
trying to seeI guess now it's really like many opportunities, not just one
particular style.
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, if I might follow-up to that?
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eof£ Yes, go ahead. Go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Mr. Yoshimoto just framed it best. It is an
incredible planning tool going forward. If, for example, a gym needs a new
scoreboard, we could identify that in the budget, down the road, and invite
partnerships for that, and then build our dollars, our tax dollars, around that. So
we would actually enhance the facility in a very succinct and synergetic way.
The other side of that, is Council Member Chung and I are looking at having to
develop a skatepark in Hilo, right? Do we float a bond for that, or do figure out a
way to develop partnerships, in which the users, a private entity, a sponsor, and
the County collaborates together and use it as a planning tool and invite those
monies and resources in a timely and phased way in which we now have another
facility, but also how we care for it? Because now with a new facility, we have to
take care of it. So, it's actually on both sides of that spectrum, Ms. Eof£ It could
be either or; enhance and rehabilitate an aging facility or looking at opportunities
for sponsorship for future ones.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, just a quick comment, and great conversation and great
outside the box thinking. Councilwoman laughed, I don't want to get stuck in the
weeds on it. The concept is great. The metrics, we've got to work those out a
little bit. But that is what—suggestions from Councilman Chung has made
already, and thought process of. I think it's a great idea. Whether it's in
perpetuity, they buy a scoreboard, or if they sponsor a field for "x" to find time, it
doesn't really matter. That's all we're worried about. The concept is what we're
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Vote on Bill 113
(Approved)
March 13, 2018
trying to get going. I think it's a great idea. And we work out the details, when
they come before us. So, great idea. Love the conversation.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Anyone else? No? Well, I want to
thank both of you, Mr. Kamelamela and Mr. Yoshimoto, for—okay, I'm thanking
Mr. Yoshimoto more then. But I also want to say thank you to Ms. Lee Loy. I
think the proposal from Mr. Chung, about the multi -layered oversight, I think,
will bring a lot more participation on something that could be huge or, you know,
something as small as a scoreboard, but the possibilities that I can see from the
discussion is huge. So on that note you want to say something before I take a
vote?
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah.
CHR. DAVID: Okay.
MS. LEE LOY: Exactly, going forward, I'll work with Mr. Yoshimoto. Like I
mentioned earlier, Mr. Chung's idea actually fits into so many other things that
we already have. I always say this, I pride myself in listening to you folks and
developing a policy that we can all support. So, with this, if we choose to move it
forward, you can assure that I'll be working with Mr. Yoshimoto to refine that
particular section of the sponsorship agreement: (a), (b), (c), and (d). And, look
forward to the rest of my colleagues' support. Thank you, Mr. Yoshimoto; thank
you so much for your time. Mr. Kamelamela, I do appreciate it. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Alright, Council Members, all those in favor please say "aye."
The motion to recommend passage of Bill 113 on
first reading was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David – 9.
Noes:
None.
Absent:
None.
Excused:
None.
CHR. DAVID: I believe that this concludes our agenda for Finance.
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ADJOURN-
MENT:
Approved:
March 13, 2018
There being no further business, at 12:51 p.m., Ms. Poindexter moved to adjourn
the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha,
Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles,
and Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. DAVID: Finance Committee is adjourned.
Ms. Maile Medeiros Davi , hair (Date)
Finance Committee
MD/na
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