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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN EMC 2017/08/01 2016-2018COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT 51h Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii August 1, 2017 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at ORDER: 3:44 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair. R(1T T CAT r Present: Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member (came in later) Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Ms. Karen Eoff, Member Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member (came in later) Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Vice Chair Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Member (came in later) Absent & Excused: Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Cory Harden: Comm. 363, comment. (representing the Sierra Club, Moku Loa Group) Palikapu Dedman: Comm. 363, comment. Koohan Paik: Comm. 363, in support. Jon Olson: Comm. 363, comment. Ronald Fujiyoshi: Comm. 363, comment. Susan Jarvi: Comm. 362, comment. Raphael Chaikin: Comm. 363, in support. EMC -5 August 1, 2017 COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 362: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION REGARDING RAT LUNG DISEASE BY REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH AND AGRICULTURE, AND THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII From Council Member Eileen O'Hara, dated July 12, 2017. Motion to Close File: Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 362. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. O'HARA: Are we ready to go with the presentation? (Note: At this time, Jason Dela Cruz , Public Health Educator from the State Department of Health; and Julia Zee, Extension Agent from the University of Hawaii at Manoa Cooperative Extension Service, College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources (CTAHR); came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. DELA CRUZ: My name is Jason Dela Cruz, I'm the Health Educator for the Department of Health. We're here today to talk about Rat Lungworm Disease. There's an objective to this, certainly. So the objective here today—and I thank Dr. Sue Jarvi for her presentation that she did to the Council earlier in May—we're not here today to do—because I think she did a thorough job on presenting the problem to you and what's currently known. What we're here today to talk about is the big objective of getting this out. So we from the collective outreach group with the Department of Agriculture and also the College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources, to develop an outreach model to get this out. We've been presenting to both open and closed groups for the last, I'd say month and a half, and we want to continue this going. As was mentioned earlier, this particular problem can be very much attenuated through the use of preventive measures and changes in behaviors. It's not going to reduce everything 100 percent, but this largely is a problem that everyone can play a part in, just similar to the Dengue outbreak. We can't get into everybody's backyard. We can't get into everybody's garden. We can't get into supermarket. We can't get into everybody's kitchen. This has to be done at all levels, that we really need to take a responsibility. So that's certainly where our outreach or our presentation is going. There are certain things that we, as the Department of Health and the Department of Agriculture and CTAHR can provide and can do, but we still very much need this help. You know, we're probably going to reduce this quite a bit if people are aware of it, that people know that's, once again, some of the things that they can do to reduce those behaviors and you know, that risk altogether. Page 2 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 So I'm not—you know, like I said, we're not going to go into a huge discussion of this particular disease just because I think you guys already got it. What I do want to present to you is just, you know, the perspectives that each respective agency brings. I apologize due to travel and time constraints, our representatives from the Department of Agriculture, Luisa Castro, is not here today, nor is Eric Honda from our Environmental Health Division as well. So Julia and I will be kind of holding the torch for them. (Note: At this time, Mr. Dela Cruz and Ms. Zee provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 362.) CHR. O'HARA: Alright, then. Thank you for the presentation. Really appreciated it. And I do have anyone with questions? MS. LEE LOY: I do. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. What is the current budget for DOH (Department of Health) for this awareness program? MR. DELA CRUZ: You know, so with the House Bill that was referenced earlier; there was $500,000 per year over the course of the next two years. The information about how that money is supposed to be specifically used has still not been shared directly with the public yet. And we can certainly share that with you when it's available. However, I do think that the three priorities that the statewide task force the Governor put together on this is focused on the three things in particular and that's going to be through outreach and education is the main component and the priority; and then also, epidemiology and vector control. MS. LEE LOY: How are you guys going to measure that? You know, we get this money MR. DELA CRUZ: I think, you know, as an agency from the Department of Health that works across the state, I don't know if there will be earmarked funds for that entirely. I assume with any larger outreach or mainstream media kind of campaign, that may be done primarily on Oahu and we might see it start popping up in our local theaters in an ad, or in our shopping centers in kiosks, or on radios, or in newspapers. So some of those things, it's not like I'm getting, you know, local, you know, our Department of Health on each island is given a budget. I suspect a lot of that are done throughout the state on a consistent level. Page 3 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 But it's really up to, you know, the work that we have here that is going to get that that word out. So if that means making sure that I have enough of these, if that makes sure that we're getting into every nook and cranny and mileage is being paid and any overtime pay and if we got to work nights, we're committed to that. So, I really doubt from the neighbor island perspective, we're going to see that level of detail and have that level of control, but we should have the resources available to make sure that we're getting it out there and each request can be handled in an appropriate manner. MS. LEE LOY: Now for those requests, are they going community driven or is it going to be like DOH driven? And if you would just let me finish, just because what might work here on the Big Island as far as community initiatives may not work on Maui. Or here on the Big Island, it might work in Hilo, you know, but not Waimea. MR. DELA CRUZ: That's right. So certainly I think it should work both ways. So we did—you know, we have sought out groups in particular to say, hey, maybe we should have one there? Like we did one in Tutu's House in Waimea not too long ago that was an initiative of that. But the West Hawaii Governor's Liaison blasted a request out to all of her email list, and each group came back and said, "Oh, we want that, we want them to come out." And so I do think it's because we have such a diverse environment on this island, I think you know, an approach that does it both ways is really going to work well. Certainly on Maui when they had a few cases, they opened it up to large-scale community meetings. I don't think that has been identified yet as the Department of Health as a thing, just because on Maui I think it was still very fresh to a lot of people. We could probably get a good audience doing that. On this island, I think there is some level of people aware of it, but we still want to make sure that we're getting out to whatever groups. So certainly, I think both approaches will be very effective on our island to get to all those diverse audiences. MS. LEE LOY: This will be just my last question. With this awareness program, are we going to be able to identify the economic setbacks or damages to the industry like our farmers or maybe to our tourism industry? Is there a way to assess that or measure that just within this awareness program and the monies allotted? MR. DELA CRUZ: I don't know if it will ever be as specific as that. I know that certainly the experience on Maui might be able to be shared because I don't think it's been specifically looked at. But if a study is done to realize the impact of what it did there, because it was such an acute problem and an acute response that, you know, I think those numbers might be very telling. But you know, everything so far—what I hear from farmers is more along the lines of hearsay and anecdotal. But certainly it would be nice to have that information, but since Page 4 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 our Hana cases went to the national media, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if it had some effect certainly on that level as well. MS. LEE LOY: I lied; I did have one more question. You mentioned well cooked. the opposite? Is there any information about, like it being ice cold? You know, Do we have information on that? You know, because we do a lot of warabi and we rinse it, but you do the cold bath. You know, you cook it, but you steam it and then you shock—is there information about doing colder water rather than rinsing? MS. ZEE: If anything that you would need to freeze it for like 48 hours, which woulda lot of vegetables wouldn't appreciate that. But our current guidelines, we're following CDC (Center for Disease Control) guidelines, and so we actually had that freezing as one alternate step, but we took it off And we're recommending either very thorough washing or if you are not sure, cooking up to 165 degrees for 15 seconds. And so it's more than a quick stir fry, it's really cooking it pretty well. MR. DELA CRUZ: Hoping we get more directives on that from consensus amongst the task force for the State on that issue of freezing because, you know, there certainly is some scientific evidence that freezing at negative 15 degrees for 24 to 48 hours does have a pretty good kill rate. And Dr. Jarvis lab certainly has expanded on that study as well. But it's still not seen as a super effective way to do it so far. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. I yield. CHR. O'HARA: Anyone else? Ms. Ruggles. MS RUGGLES: Thank you. Thank you for the presentation. I just wanted to ask you a question about the catchment system situation. As you know, Puna residents, a quarter of them were positive for the rat lungworm antibodies and as we learned from Dr. Jarvis, that it can transfer through water into any open wounds. So do you have—is it an objective of the Department of Health at all to start looking at filtration systems, and guidelines for those? MR. DELA CRUZ: You know, certainly water catchment and regulations are a challenge. I believe it's still not considered a potable water source from the Department of Health perspective. And on that basis alone, even washing your vegetables with catchment water, even though it may have been treated. And from my understanding, even with the filtration and a UV (ultra -violet) system, you are doing a very extensive job of treating your water. But you know, the Department of Health still does not recognize that as a source of potable water. am afraid that issue would have to be looked at through that lens in order to get some advancement. However, I do think that the state task force is looking Page 5 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 particularly at that problem, and I think we may get some guidance on that shortly in terms of what it is? Certainly, that is an interesting and possible theoretical transmission route. It's hard to really—if many of the cases that through a normal epidemiological investigation, it's hard to pinpoint the exact exposure. In that time that may have been in the bath water. They may have also ingested water that wasn't properly treated, or they may have come in contact with something else, or they may have been in the yard and interacted with something as well. So you know, there was also some thought that, well, what if you're weed whacking and it gets into your mouth, or if it could also enter your eye. There's a lot of research that still needs to be done on these topics certainly. But for us, that primary transmission route still appears to be that accidental or intended ingestion of either a raw or undercooked snail or slug. So you know, certainly when the investigations start pointing to that, I do think it's going to, you know, certainly look into that a little bit more, but it's really hard to pinpoint that exact exposure. So from a theoretically perspective. Yes, it is possible, and you know, the Department of Health isn't really set up to be a research organization per se, and so we do look for, you know, the best researchers from around the world to really drive our guidelines and our thoughts. MS. RUGGLES: So if I heard you correctly, are you saying that rat lungworm, it's questionable if it does transfer through water? MR. DELA CRUZ: To my knowledge, I don't believe there has been one confirmed case from the Department of Health that has been directly attributed to exposure. Some of the people who have reported have claimed that, "Yes, it was my catchment," but like I said, it's extremely hard to know that, exactly where that exposure occurred. We do know that, as mentioned, it can live in water for some time, and with a proper filtration system in theory—well like I said, we do need to study this a little bit more, but it should be working through it. A UV System UV light hasn't been tested at the particular power to kill the nematode. Because as I talk to the outfitters here, anything larger than five microns is not going to really be affected by a UV system. Some literature has looked at X-ray and gamma radiation in order to inactivate them, and is successful in doing so. That's kind of out of the scope of a home consumer to have that system. So, you know, catchment very well could be a transmission route. And considering how many people are on catchment here, if it was a—there might be other factors that are associated with that in terms of how much maintenance they have, what they use it for, how they use it, that may have more, you know, more factors into it. Because we have a lot of people that are using catchment, and we have a lot of people that are maintaining it well and I assume some that aren't. So, if this was a huge transmission route for this particular disease, we should be Page 6 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 seeing more cases associated with that. And I don't think that the data is really supporting that right now. MS. RUGGLES: Okay. MR. DELA CRUZ: So it certainly is plausible, and that is why certainly more research is needed. MS. RUGGLES: Okay, thank you. CHR. O'HARA: Any other comments from the Council? Okay. Then I have a few comments and questions. You've spoken a lot about the need for further research. And I have gotten a communication from our East Hawaii Environmental Health Specialist with the DOH here. He retired yesterday. And that was a communication that was updated from an original document that CTAHR put out, when Trish McComber was with CTAHR, on water quality and catchment systems, since they are widely -used on the Big Island. Whether DOH recognizes them as potable or not, they are widely used for residential water systems. In Trish's work, rat lungworm disease was never mentioned. So this was amended with three-quarters of a page about the possibility of contracting rat lungworm disease through the use of catchment system. But it made no firm claims. It suggests that people use as small as a five micron filter. Most of the filters that are commonly used are 10 or 20 microns. So it was suggested that use of a five micron may protect you from rat lungworm disease. But to me that's not sufficient. If we're all we are doing is a public education campaign, where we're passing out information that is not well researched, documented, firmly identifies ways to avoid transmission of this disease, we're not doing enough. So since you have said several times that the level of knowledge about this disease is not sufficient, we need more research; the freezing, for instance, of vegetables—and yes, it doesn't do well for most leafy greens—but a lot of people here like to make smoothies with greens. I was in the natural foods market and a woman has a beautiful basket of beautiful kale, and I commented on how beautiful the kale was figuring she was juicing it because she had a ton of it, and I said "Oh, I've heard that if you freeze it for 48 hours, you can avoid being contaminated with the rat lungworm disease," just as a heads up. She turned around and said, "I've lived here 15 years. I'm not afraid of that." So we have a lot to confront with a public education campaign. And I'm just concerned if that is all we're doing is passing out educational materials where we still don't know the answers, it's just not enough. We need to be putting money into research. So I would like to know of the $500,000 that the Department of Health was given for each of next two years, how do we, the County Council on the Big Island, where we're seeing the greatest negative health impacts from this disease—and Page 7 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 data being what it is, I don't think that we have collected data on all of the affected cases, a lot of people never got tested. A lot of people are out there who have rat lungworm disease who were never positively tested for it because we don't have a really good test yet. So there is so much research that needs to be done. I would like to know what we the County Council can do to encourage expenditure of some of the funds for research. It's not enough just to spend it on public education. Can we pass a resolution to encourage, or do you want to hear individually from us as Council Members? How is it best to push that point? Because I'm very concerned about the lack of research dollars being directed at this problem. MR. DELA CRUZ: I mean I would say, you know, unfortunately at our pay level and our job descriptions we don't quite get to make those decisions. But certainly as I have said several times I do recommend more research on this. So I have that knowledge to share as well. But in a crisis when there is a lot of unknowns, not just infectious disease scenario but other crises, sometimes you just have to take the information that you have that are best practice and use those in the time being to really try to reduce that as well. One positive thing is that a lot of things that we're doing, basic sanitation, taking care of, you know, washing your hands, washing fruit and veggies prior to eating, cooking to a proper temperature, eliminating rats, eliminating pests. These are things that are also going to prevent a lot of other potential infectious disease. Not having those specifics and saying, "Well, if you do it at this particular temperature at this particular time," you know, would be great to have, but unfortunately, we don't' quite have that yet. I'm hoping that with enough information, we can reduce that risk and drive people, but also acknowledge that we don't have that. So how do we actuallyI don't know exactly how the Council works and how you could help influence that. But certainly even within the Department of Health we certainly acknowledge that there is certainly a great need for research on this. But the question often comes down to what pot is that coming from, and with this particular resource, like I said, I'm not privy to that particular information, and I'm hoping to get some information soon so, you know, we can plan further as well. So I can certainly take that message forward, but as for specific actions I'm not sure. CHR. O'HARA: All right, thank you. Is there anyone else from Council with anything left to say? Then with that, I'm going to call for a vote on the motion on the floor to file this presentation. All those in favor, please say "yay." Page 8 EMC -5 Vote on Comm. 362 Filed August 1, 2017 The motion to close file on Comm. 362 was carried by by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Richards — 2. Excused: None. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you very much for coming in and giving us that presentation. We really appreciate it. With that, we have Communication 363. Comm. 363: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY TERRI NAPEAHI REGARDING HEALTH IMPACTS ON KEAUKAHA RESIDENTS From Council Member Eileen O'Hara, dated July 12, 2017. (Note: Comm. 363.2, from Terri Napeahi dated August 1, 2017, was circulated.) Recess: At 3:44 p.m. Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 4:55 p.m. Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 363. Seconded by Ms. Eoff. CHR. O'HARA: I'm sorry once again, I apologize for the lateness. I know you guys have been very, very patient and we're over an hour behind time. So I really appreciate that you're all still here to hear this really important presentation by Terri Napeahi and her community who has helped to put this together. So, thank you, Terri. You want to proceed? (Note: At this time, Terri Napeahi came forward and provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 363. 1.) MS. NAPEAHL So that was the end of my presentation. So I want questions. CHR. O'HARA: Thank very much, Terri. And I'm going to look around for some questions. Ms. Lee Loy, you have some? MS. LEE LOY: Terri, thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for providing, you know, just a great backdrop. And then the best part of all, which is, you Page 9 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 know, what is the community ask. And you know, you've done a great job at providing the remedies and just three bullet items. I actually want to focus on something else that you brought up which is the asset fund. And just share a little bit as far as how you envision some of that coming together? I know it was actually brought up similar to that of the geothermal asset fund and some of the impacts that are happening in Puna. So could you just provide a little bit of that backdrop for the Council Members so they can better understand, you know, the idea of what this asset fund, who contributes to it, and then and then how we get those assets back out to the community? MS. NAPEAHL Well, one of the things that we were discussing for quite some time in our community is, you know these facilities are emitting pollution near families. What are the compound impacts that they have? And are they responsible for what they're doing? You know, their corporate social responsibility. So, we looked at some of the things that we wanted to remedy, like emergency response, like monitoring systems, like—you know, all of these issues that are initiated by this issue of pollution that is being emitted and the risks that these companies have to our community. Not only our Hawaiians, everybody participates in this issue. So the idea of—you know, every time we brought it up to the Department of Environmental Management, the Department of Health, a lot of the justification for not being able to be properly monitoring the waters, you know, is because they're not fully equipped, they're don't have enough employees, they're not funded enough; and you know these are So we asked at our meetings with the LEPC (Local Emergency Planning Committee), "Are your hazmat team, civil defense, first responders fully equipped to assess a disaster?" And they said no, not fully. Because a lot of their equipment costs money. So here we are again about money. But we're thinking about having a—all of these facilities that we identified to participate in a fund specifically for Keaukaha and Pana`ewa and the issues that they've had to bear compounding all of these years. So one of the questions we asked, like these fees that these facilities have had to pay, where do they go? $650,000? Where did that money go? $350,000, where did that go? Did it come back to our community? No. It goes to a fund, right back to the fells. Shouldn't it come back to us? You know, the families that are having to carry the burden of these toxic pollutions. So that was the idea of coming up with remedy for this. The asset fund, a lot of—you know, the members here in our chambers today are familiar with the asset fund that was created for geothermal. Something on that, you know, like. But then I was told that, you know, "Who is going to be manning the funding if you were to get something like this?" And this is just food for thought. Page 10 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 MS. LEE LOY: Another follow-up question. I know for a long time, the community was asking for a cumulative health study. And you mentioned that throughout your presentation during the closure of the landfill. And you know, something that I want to put on the table is as we go through the process to close that landfill, there is going to be a need for an environmental impact statement regarding the closure. And you know, for this body, when Mr. Kucharski comes forward regarding that ask for the funding for that, that would be an opportunity for this community to get that cumulative health study done at the same time. And these are the ways that this community is trying to look out for themselves, and use some of the vehicles that will become available to them, just like the closure of the landfill. So I appreciate what Terri is doing right now is providing this backdrop, so that this body going forward, we're not just looking at a study to close the landfill. If there is an opportunity to get more data, or more air quality monitors, or address other needs, that would be a ripe time for those things to happen. And the communities need it. They have carried this burden for a very long time. And as we wind down, you know, that one particular landfill and the closure of that, you know, we can begin to better assess some of the environmental concerns that this community has had. You know, Terri can go on a number of other issues, but you know, those tiny little low -hanging fruit that, you know, I want us as a body to be mindful, because what is happening here, we're going to see in Kawaihae. You know, they have a harbor there. We're going to see it in Kona with the airport there. So if there are any lessons to be learned here and how we look ahead at managing these industries, you know, we don't have to look very far, because they all exist right here in Keaukaha. So I am going to yield at this time. Thank you. CHR. O'HARA: Do I have any questions for Terri? Ms. Ruggles. MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. I was hoping you could talk more about the home -rule referendum and what exactly that looks like. MS. NAPEAHL Ok, great. I was going to reiterate that. It's language that could be written by, you know, we could work with Sue regarding the above issues. You know, just to get, say for instance—you know, I would rather shut them down and move them all away, but we're going to be feasible right now. And some of the things that we're asking now is something that can be done immediately, and that is to ask that these facilities give an evacuation plan, because we don't have one. I did the research. I've asked our first responders, "Do you have an updated evaluation evacuation plan from each facilities that I mentioned?" And they said no. They can come back and correct me, but in the meeting they have maybe PGV (Puna Geothermal Venture), because the community has asked for PGV's, you Page 11 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 know, I don't know, because theirs is outdated since 1990; I read it. But not to have this evacuation plan in hand, you know, County, you are the first responders. County gets to be there first, if there is a disaster. I will give you an example of BEI (Brewer Environmental Industries). When they had a leak, BEI hazmat team immediately got to the site, but by the time they got to the site and the leak went and permeated the community. Now how do you assess something like that? They didn't know what kind of toxins were seeping into the community, how were they going to assess letting the community know? You know, it was a perfect example of how to assess something like that. You know, it's constantly happening like this. I mean we've had multiple spills and we had multiple leaks for decades, and nothing has been done. Now we're in 2017, and we don't have an evacuation plan to the County LEPC first responders, and a hazard plan. Our members are right across the street. How quick can our first responders get to the families? Just to let you all know, there is only one way out of Keaukaha. But they shut it down. During tsunami warnings, they shut down—families cannot go through Kalanianaole. So we've had problems with this. Several times we've been—in fact the last we've had problems. Families had had through the back, go across the runway, to get out for safety. Had we had a tsunami, we would have all died. Why? Because we had to go and wait for somebody to open the gate. You see? I mean, "Can you please open the gate so our people can pass?" These are things that should not happen. To have language asking—not asking, you tell the facilities give us an updated evacuation plan, hazard plan, and we all know that they have an insurance policy. I'm sure they do. These are gas storage companies. What kind of insurance policies do they have? And do they cover the people that are near them? What are the buffers for these facilities? Do we know what the facilities are for each chemical that is being released? I'm sure there is a rule and a reg for that. So that would be something that we'd be talking about. MS. RUGGLES: So the referendum would be mandating all the companies along there to come up with an evacuation plan/hazard plan, and community insurance? MS. NAPEAHL Yes. MS. RUGGLES: Okay, is that something that we would do with the referendum or can we pass that through body? MS. LEE LOY: You know, I have a lot more research to do just because these industries are mandated by other things. So that's why I've been working with Terri for a while now. You know, normally these things happen when they're getting permitted, right? It would happen during a land use regulatory process. These companies have been established forever. You know, so we have to figure out a way, you know, to get these companies into this community fund, whether it's a change of use, or whether they're winding down. Like Aloha Petroleum, Page 12 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 you know, how do we create a safety net for those companies and get them into this program? You know, it's a little more complex than if they were being established right now. You know, it's going to take a little bit more time. We're still working through that. But yeah, that is the general idea. MS. RUGGLES: Okay. MS. NAPEAHL A lot of these facilities, if you don't mind me, are supposedly grandfathered in. So I attended a workshop with NEPA (National Environmental Policy Act,) and asked them that question, because HELCO (Hawai`i Electric Light Company, Inc.) is a fuel -burning facility. And probably the highest risk stressor that I'm looking at right now is the burning of fuel. It's been burning fuel for decades. So one of the things that brought me to this issue is the high cancer morbidity rate that is in our community. And I looked at this for the people that live on the fence line alone. You know, my thinking, my suspicion, is that a lot of these pollutants could be the factor of why a lot of families on my street alone, at least one family member died of cancer. So eventually, what I will do with this method that I'm using is going to encourage universities, their graduate students that will help me do cancer clustering in my community. That is a goal that I'm going to accomplish. So one of the things that we do now is to be able to fix things that need to be fixed now. You know, I mean, it is uncalled for that our County is not prepared to assess a disaster with our families. We're just lucky we didn't have something like that. MS. O'HARA: Thank you. I hate to interrupt, because we have to reboot the system or it automatically will. So we need just need to take a short recess so they can reboot it. Okay. Recess: At 4:55 p.m., the chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 5:00 p.m. CHR. O'HARA: We'll just wait until she returns and in the meantime, does anyone else have a question? I think you had something, Mr. Kanuha? We'll just move on and wait for her to come back. MR. KANUHA: Thank you and mahalo for your presentation. I think I remember you giving a presentation at the Democratic rally in Kona, but I had to—yeah, I had to leave and so I missed whatever you said. So I'm glad that I was here to hear the entire presentation about what's going on. I think you brought up something about giving to the LEPC, and I wasn't sure, just trying to get a clarification on what LEPC is. MS. NAPEAHL It's the Local Emergency Planning Committee; LEPC. Page 13 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 MR. KANUHA: Okay, perfect. MS. NAPEAHL And it's run by the Fire Department. Every county has a Chair and it's the consortium of county first responders. MR. KANUHA: And so there is no plan for Keaukaha in terms of? MS. NAPEAHL Well the facilities, we're referring to the facilities, yeah. MR. KANUHA: Oh, okay. MS. NAPEAHL So assessing the facilities. But the plan for Keaukaha, evacuation plan, Sue brought me the whole stack. And I went through it actually, and it needs to be updated, you know, and that's something that I think should be done soon. I mean, because that's what is being used for our evacuation, is the tsunami evacuation plan. There's none for explosions. I mean, I read your books and it goes over emergency, and it talks about explosions, it talks about the tsunami landslides, but really not mentioning anything about the disasters that could happen at the harbor in Hilo where all of the industrial facilities are. I think that should be updated as well. It's not mentioned in that. MR. KANUHA: I didn't have too many questions, but you gave us a whole list of questions and things to go and seek the information from. So I really appreciate that because that's something I'm sure Ms. Lee Loy is going to be working on with these questions. But it's something that I can have on my books to, you know, do that as well. In Kona, we have a lot of the, not the same issues, but there are some issues that are relevant through this discussion. So I'm going to take that with me. But what—all of these industries and these facilities have been around a long time. Is there—what is DHHL (Department of Hawaiian Home Lands) with their governance or their authority, what are they doing? Or is there anything that they're advocating on or pursuing with a lot of these spills? And what are they doing to help the community and making sure that the community is safe, you know, from all that's around them? Do they have the authority over a mile out, two miles out? Or is it just what happens in the community is theirs and whatever happens outside, they don't have any say? MS. NAPEAHL Well, I have Patrick Kahawaiola`a here, if he wants to stand in to talk about DHHL. Well, let me give you an idea of how this started. There was an environmental assessment that was being proposed through OEQC (Office of Environmental Quality Control) that was going to have, it was called an infield project, and that was to house families, award them in Keaukaha. And one specific area was next to my father. And my father, like I said, made the cut Page 14 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 during the time that a lot of our families had to move. The fence is right smack in front of my father's home. So there was no easement to get into a little parcel that sits—that was condemned and that particular family had to move to Pana`ewa, and she is still alive. And so my question was, "Why are you putting families in harm's way?" You know, we're trying to get issues addressed with the fuels and the noise, and you're putting them on the fence line. So that was my issue, my father's issue. And so there was an environmental assessment that got through OEQC, and I opposed it, because I read their environmental assessment. It did not address any of these issues I'm talking about. So PBR (PBR & Associates) had to do a revision, and I had them come tour community, so they could explain that revision entitled. It kind of went over a lot of things that our community did not even know. Like there is a clear zone. What is a clear zone? It's a crash zone. A lot of our families live in that crash zone. Now did they know? No. Was this disclosed to our families? No. Maybe some others knew but our families did not. You could hear a pin drop in this meeting. And then you have mitigation for an attenuation project for noise. They placed monitors in the community years ago, but these monitor readings were never shared with our community. So who does the checks and balances on mitigation for this noise issue? Right? You are supposed to be monitoring the noise to see that it's at the proper decibels for families to live. Well, there are 200 people that live in that mitigation zone; 200. So their initiative to help our families was to put a berm years ago to muffle the sounds. And then they negotiated or worked with our community to do insulation, meaning sound proof some homes. That was done in 2003-2004. They only did few and I'd say one, two, or three. So the question was what did you do with the funding that you got to do this mitigation? And this was 2013, when I asked. And this is 2017, and they just went to look for more monies to finish what they didn't finish. So your answer: nothing. I mean, I'm going to say this: nothing. So I was just told by DHHL that they're going to give an update on the airport issues soon. MS. LEE LOY: If I could help you with that. Terri's right. The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands has for a long time not truly supported the beneficiaries. I think unfortunately like any other governmental agency, every time we have a new Governor, we have a new Chairman, and it kind of swings with whatever political wind is there. There has been just half a step in addressing beneficiary concerns from DHHL, and we saw that with the composting facility where the department actually came out in opposition of the siting of the composting facility. So Terri is absolutely right. They really haven't done anything. I am hopeful that with more beneficiaries pushing the department to speak more on behalf of the beneficiaries rather than a political agency, you know, but we still have a lot. This may have Page 15 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 just been a blip on the radar, but they have also engaged our own community development plans similar to what the county has for the different communities. Hawaiian Homes has their own community development plans, too. So the community, the beneficiaries are really doing their part for the advocacy. But we still have a long way to go. And you are right, Mr. Kanuha. They addressed things within their control, but they also have an opportunity to address things through an agency, during the comment period, during the publication process, through the environmental quality control. And you know, they just need to be more mindful at looking at it through the lens of a beneficiary rather than an agency. MR. KANUHA: Absolutely. You know, just mahalo for the presentation, and for giving us this information. I have a lot of homework to do. For me, it's more just a start of hearing and listening to the issues that you guys are facing and how we can move forward us as Council, or me as a Council Member, in doing our part on the County level, and advocating on behalfI mean, we're not DHHL but we're your beneficiary for the County. We're all beneficiaries on behalf. So if we can advocate on the beneficiary part that is what we're going to be doing. MR. KANUHA: Our role here is to provide public health and safety. If we can't even do that, you know, for this community then, what are we doing as a government agency? So I'm behind the community and Council Member Lee Loy in helping the community. I just need to do a lot more homework. So I appreciate that. I'll yield. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. I believe you had the floor before we went on recess, Ms. Ruggles, and did you have more questions to follow-up with? MS. RUGGLES: I did. They are for Mr. Kucharski. So I don't know if we want to finish. Or we can just— CHR. O'HARA: Well, I wanted to give the floor back to you, if you want to call Mr. Kucharski up. (Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director William Kucharski came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. Before I start, how I'm seeing this is, this is really, it's an environmental justice issue, but it's also a social justice issue. I think it's really clear that his is a social justice issue. And I'm looking at these toxic release inventory facilities and I feel like a place that we need to start is who has jurisdiction over each one of these facilities? We have the airport, that's federal. The gas storage facility, I don't know. The harborI know what we do have is wastewater treatment. So that's where I wanted to ask Mr. Kucharski what steps Page 16 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 have been taken and are there any more steps that your department plans on talking to protect the community more than we have been? MR. KUCHARSKI: Bill Kucharski, Director of DEM (Department of Environmental Management). The sewage treatment plant that we're currently operating is meeting all state and federal discharge standards. That is not a great answer, if you don't like the standard, but that is what we are obligated to meet and that's what we do meet. We have just completed repairs on land side and ocean side discharge lines, and we talked about some of the cost overruns that we had on the ocean side. We're working on that. We have things that we can do. We're looking at additional types of treatment. One thing that would be very nice to be able to do is to construct some engineered wetlands. We have the land. Everything is fine except we also have an awful lot of rain, which means if you do engineered wetlands, you've just increased the flows out of your discharge system by orders of magnitude. So that's something that really we can't do. We're looking at disinfection, different kinds of disinfection instead of the chlorine. Going possibly to a UV (ultra violet) disinfection that would be less onerous to the environment. Exactly how we fix that, how we improve the discharge standards if we upgraded the facility to exceed the federal discharge standards, we could do that. That would be a function of new design, modifying the system that we have currently there. The plant is not in great shape, but it's not really that old either. It should be in much better condition than it is in. But going in, and we would be looking at a major redesign of the facility in order to come out with an R-1 or and R-2 water out of there. The problem with R-1 water here is that we really don't have a lot of water needs that are not met by our rainfall. But we could make R-1 water. It would be a significant investment for the County. That's an issue that we can address and we can approach and take a look at what that cost would be, but there is hardly anything that you can't do if you have the funds available and the time. But that is something that we could pursue. Taking a look at some kind of more of a polishing of our discharge water, essentially when we're at that point we're looking at sort of a supplemental treatment system. So again, it would be considerably more expensive than what we're doing now. We can do that, we're looking at alternatives, it's just not something thatI can't just say yeah I can do this. I can pull this off the shelf and all of the problems will go away. I can't do that. But we're looking at alternatives. And we can look at upgrading the treatment; but again, that is going to be something that will allow us to exceed our discharge requirements federally. If Page 17 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 the County decides to do it that way, we can obviously do it. But it is something that would not be an inexpensive alternative. MS. RUGGLES: Thank you for that. So what I'm hearing is currently we're meeting the federal standards for wastewater treatment facility. Our options are upgrading the facility to exceed those standards, and doing more to polish the discharge water? MR. KUCHARSKI: Yes. MS. RUGGLES: Okay. Because I think it's already established that those federal standards have proven to not be sufficient. And even the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) fines have not been sufficient. So we need to do more in doing our diligence to protect. I think it would be worth pursuing an upgrade like that, to protect our ocean and our community, because this is a long-term asset. I think that a place we could all start ideally, what I'm looking at here is the evacuation plan, the hazard plan, the community insurance, while those are all good, is that enough to correct the situation? And I mean, ideally, like you said, it would be great to relocate it, because they were put in the place—they were placed inappropriately in the first place. They shouldn't be there in the first place. So where we need to start is looking at the permitting process, and who has jurisdiction over each one of these facilities? And I don't know what otherI want to help in any way that I can and I'm sure the rest of the body is. So, I don't know if this is the proper place to start brainstorming on that, but I would like to hear the rest of your thoughts. Thank you. CHR. O'HARA: So with that, you yield? MS. RUGGLES: Yes. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. Thank you, Bill. Ms. Eoff MS. EOFF: Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Terri, for pulling all of that information together. You have done so many years and generational years of gathering information without too much support, it seems like. And Palikapu as well, your testimony was really revealing when you mentioned and kind of brought a clear picture about the endangered species of the Native Hawaiian population. And it made me think about, I guess, President Clinton issued an apology bill to Native Hawaiians, realizing there has been an adverse impact from all of the things that have happened. And yet, you know, what's the good of an apology, or an apology bill, without some action? I think you said that maybe the last resort is legal, is lawsuits. But some of these—it seems like these facilities, like you would have leverage knowing that Page 18 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 they are going to lose in a major lawsuit to at least request what you are saying is, the most simplest first thing is either for them be required, whether they are grandfathered in or not, to do a more current update kind of an EIS (Environmental Impact Statement) or cultural impact statement or some type of serious study that would lead to some litigation measures. So I don't know, you guys have done so much more thinking about this, you know, I don't feel qualified to give any suggestions, but those are some of the thoughts that I started to have. It's a very big issue. (Note: At this time, Palikapu Dedman came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. DEDMAN: Can I comment? MS. EOFF: Sure. MR. DEDMAN: Yes, talking about Hawaiian Homes, you know, the Governor is not appointed by Hawaiians. And then as you sit here as Council People, you're elected by districts. Our commissioners are appointed by the Governor. So you don't get that representation like you do representing your district. You have to understand that from the top down, the Hawaiians don't have no say-so. And even their employees, they put who they want. On the permitting situation that you asked, you could ask Aaron Chung, and you could ask Mr. Kamelamela, that was around when I was around doing these arguments and making these points, and you should ask them what agreements were being made while you were allowing the development of the harbors or the development of the shopping centers. And a lot of the things going on in Hawaiian Homes and your corporate counsel, and what agreements were being made drafting up these permits, you and Joe? At that time, you were Corporate Counsel for a long time. And I bumped into you guys when our hair was still black. So you guys have a record of knowing how these things all happened, and your record of not following up on this to bring things up to date on issues. And now we're talking about problems that were allowed to compound themselves, because of agreements being made without us knowing about it. So maybe your colleagues should be asking the old timers on how did they let things go and how much they were giving in agreements, and why isn't that being part of resolving our situation today? So I just wanted to let you know that this stuff has been around a long time and you have two old timers inside of here, that maybe were part of the problem and not the solution. Because if we have a problem today and they were part of addressing it at that time, somebody missed the boat somewhere. But I think you should get more information from your historical people here about what was done, how it was created, and what agreements were being made. And also, the Page 19 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 fact of what is in the lease with Hawaiian Homes and the County in agreeing for the sewer, for this development of the airport, or maybe the harbors facilities? What is the County involvement in permitting these developments and what agreements were being made, so that we don't have to ask these same things over. Because you have to know that those things were being made and that's why we're in the situation. It's not day one. This is the results of it. And for the management of waste there, I mean, do we live the next ten years with these faulty facilities? I mean he was explaining to himself, like I think they were patching the pipes. You know, just with words and they were practically patching it with cement. I just saw patching. It's sick, you know. So I just see a pattern of just going around and around and everybody not coming up with legitimate answers. So just wanted to express that. Really a frustration of being repetitive, all of these years, saying the same stuff And all of us know that, but I don't know the comfort or what it is? Hawaiians should have a place, man, should have some recognition and there is so much emphasis put on migration and immigrants and that what about us? Man, we're not that—you got generations of immigrants in this room. I'm not, I'm from here and always was. I think the recognition should come on our needs and necessities and how much we have sacrificed our lands and our rights and our morals, and everything's been degraded. So I think you have to step up to the plate, Aaron. You're the oldest guy here, you and Joe. So no go hide behind some of the things you guys' know was the problem, and as we talked maybe you were coming up with memories how things did happen. So I really hope you would step into the plate and help resolve some of these situations that you were part of in the creation back in the day. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. And Ms. David, if you would justI will recognize you, but since there was kind of a discussion going, can I recognize Mr. Chung? MS. DAVID: I'll go after. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. I really respect what Palikapu said, kind of crazy stuff as far as I'm concerned, the insinuation. But you know, you are entitled to your opinion. You know, implying that Joe and/or I knew about some kind of secret agreements with regard to the MR. DEDMAN: Not secret. MR. CHUNG: Palikapu, while you were speaking I didn't interrupt you, right? MR. DEDMAN: Go ahead. Page 20 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 MR. CHUNG: Okay. So these types of agreements regarding the harbors, hey, I'm old, but I'm not that old. Okay? Harbors were there long before I ever was born. Shopping center, Patrick, back there knows my feelings about the development of Wal-Mart, and you know, all of these other developments on Hawaiian Home Lands. The County had taken a position many years ago, in fact prior even to me joining the Corporation Counsel's office that it was beyond the jurisdiction of the County. That's why they weren't even involved in the permitting process. And that's something that I've really took exception to on a personal basis, but I never advised the Planning Department or anything like that. Never was involved in anything. I don't even think Joe was. Joe was in the Litigation Department. We weren't called upon to opine on this thing. But as I said, I would confide in Patrick on many issues. Regarding that, and water free of charge issues, it's only my personal opinion. I don't make the calls. And you should know that Palikapu. I think it's real, you know, I'm just being real frank with you. I take offense to that kind of insulation you're making. But you're entitled your opinion. You can believe whatever you want to believe. It's fine. And you know, really I wasn't going to say anything tonight. But I had to respond to that. And I will say this, and this will be my only statement tonight. You know, the Keaukaha really holds a dear place in my heart. And I have long felt, just like Terri theorizes, that there was some funky stuff going on right around when you enter Keaukaha, enter the homestead on Kalanianaole. Whether you call it a cancer cluster, I don't know. There were some things going on that really raised concerns, and just based on my intuition, yeah, there were some health concerns. I don't know what they are caused by, I'm not a professional or anything like that, but just my intuition leads me to believe there is something unhealthy going on there. I will say this also, I think what had been presented here today, basically when you are talking about safety issues, and safety issues particularly as they relate to a community, those concerns will resonate with any person, because you don't want your family or your loved ones living in an unsafe area. So having said that, I will say that I'll support any reasonable efforts that will address these concerns. But as Ms. Ruggles pointed out, look, we don't deal with the health. I mean, I know Mr. Kanuha said, yeah, our basic, our mission really as a County is to protect the health, welfare and safety, but primarily health issues are dealt with by the State. Harbors are dealt with by the State. Airports are dealt with by the State. We can do stuff relating to wastewater. We can do things relating to Civil Defense. And if it needs us, if it requires us to take a more active role in Civil Defense and going and working with each of the individual businesses in that area, well then, so be it, okay? But if we start doing things like maybe imposing more insurance requirements on these people, who are already there, I think that is going beyond the scope of what Page 21 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 we're able to do quite frankly. So I'm saying within the context of what we're able to do and our authority, you have my full support. You guys have a fantastic representative and I know she is working closely with you guys. So you have my support on anything that is reasonable; anything that is within our power to do. I pledge it. But Palikapu, how do you think I feel? But I understand your, you know— MR. DEDMAN: I apologize if you got mad. I remember you kicking me out of south point. MR. CHUNG: I never kicked you MR. DEDMAN: No, no. Remember, you came down and put up the permit that I had to tear down the buildings that we were in. And I came all the way to tell you, you've got no jurisdiction. And you apologized and said, "We don't." So that's how we met. We met on those differences. MR. CHUNG: It's interesting how people, you know, have different CHR. O'HARA: Are you done Mr. Chung? MR. CHUNG: Yes, I am. MR. DEDMAN: I apologize if you're mad, bra. CHR. O'HARA: Okay. MR. DEDMAN: Do you feel that these facilities are grandfathered in? CHR. O'HARA: Go ahead. MR. CHUNG: There has to be some kind of grandfathering concepts involved in this thing. I don't know to what extent, I really don't know. And I don't want to pass the buck, but that is something that has to go to Corp. Counsel at some point. But I believe there are some grandfather principles involved in this. MR. DEDMAN: The only reason why I brought that up is the condo burning in Honolulu with no sprinklers. Now would you say that the grandfather reason is a good reason, because they didn't have to do it then? So that is what I'm getting at. MR. CHUNG: That is a good point. MR. DEDMAN: That is a fact. It's an actual point. Not an assumption, it's a fact. Page 22 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 CHR. O'HARA: It is a good point. Okay, thank you. Ms. David's been waiting and I'm going to give her the floor. MS. DAVID: Thank you for that, Mr. Chung. Because I was just going to mention the fact that I think as far as all of the list of things that you spoke of and thank you very much for that historical background on Hawaiian Home Lands and how your parents, Terri, have been harmed and affected throughout the years. And my question was basically almost the same. What does this body have jurisdiction over? There is a lot of—State has jurisdiction. I think Mr. Chung covered it pretty well. I am totally supportive of Ms. Lee Loy, and anything we can do in that respect. So, I agree with everything that you folks have said. Palikapu, I think you're not a stranger to litigation as far as when it comes to asserting Native Hawaiian rights, and I applaud you for that. So I'm just wondering, have you folks been discussing that part of it, where you know, the things you talk about basically, the harm has been done already, whether it's grandfathered in or not. So I'm just wondering whether you folks are at that level of asserting some legal action to get some relief from these companies. Like you said, have been putting the health and safety of our people in jeopardy for years. So I don't expect you to answer, because I'm just making that observation because I know that you have a history of asserting the rights of our people. I really have to agree. I don't have anything except to agree that I think our role is very minimal in this. We will do whatever we can to help. But I have to say, I agree with you and Terri totally. As native people of this land, it seems like we have to fight so hard for our place. In that I agree. The reason I have to acknowledge that is because regardless of what happened in the past, I believe that now that we are here, we need to move forward in a positive way so that we prevent all these things that you're talking about. I'm angry with DHHL. I am. But I want to see your efforts and our efforts result in something that will hit them in a way that they will never do this to our people again. So it's not only on this side, it's in Ka`u, DHHL in Ka`u. So I understand what you're saying, but I'm just asking that you understand where we're coming from. I've been where you have been too. We both have, and I know what you're going through. But for now, where we are now, I think we can help in whatever way we can to make this effort of yours be pono so that this doesn't happen again, regardless. Don't know if we have enough time for that, but what we can do while we're here, I want you to know that I do support your efforts 110 percent, and I mahalo you folks. I yield. CHR. O'HARA: Ms. Ruggles. MS. RUGGLES: Thank you. I just want to follow up, first about the litigation. If as a result of litigation we're faced with some sort of injunction that might be Page 23 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 something that the County would need to plan for, the County and the State, because that I think that is very plausible in this situation. And in the short term, I will be doing what I can to support you in getting those plans and the insurance. MS. NAPEAHL Thank you. MS. RUGGLES: And in the long term really, the community, the people were there first, and these facilities are not meant to co -exist with communities and residents like this. So we need to do something to be working towards the long term, and figuring out what we're going to do about that. If it's going to be the facilities or if it's going to be the people. I think that we need to work on moving those facilities and restoring and healing the land there, in the long term. So please let me know what I can do for that. I will keep going to the meetings. Overall, I think that is the direction we should be going. Thank you. MS. NAPEAHL Thank you. Well, to answer your question, regarding litigation, yes, I have been at the very get -go thinking about ways to remedy our issue. But went in or out to work with our government, and you have watched my videos. I've had meetings where we have invited government agencies to participate in discussing questions that we needed answered while gathering all of the information that I needed. And this is definitely something that I am looking towards doing not only to help our community but to also get policies changed, if it needs be. I just got support from OHA (Office of Hawaiian Affairs), if I needed any help with compliance issues they would be there to support me. You know, so they have been following my issues, just like NHLC (Native Hawaiian Legal Corporation), just like Earth Justice has been following my issues, just like PDF (Pacific Diversified Fisheries) has been following my issues. But I'm here today because this is a process. We start first with our home rule and the people that we are closest with. I appreciate the Council Members that have attended my meetings. I appreciate Mr. Kucharski, who has attended my meetings and willingly given me information about repairs Puhi Bay pipes; also the landfill issues. I appreciate Civil Defense. And I appreciate Gerald Kosaki who runs the LEPC, because they have been discussing our issues in their meetings, and one of the issues are emergency response. They mentioned that they would like to retrieve evacuation plans that are updated from these facilities. And if that's is something that you can help them with, well that's huge. That is huge for our first responders. That is something that I would like to ask you to do, is to help our first responders be fully equipped, so they can do their job. And to also find ways for remedy, and that was the reason for that asset fund. This asset fund was originally being discussed for emergency response and monitoring, and having them fully equipped to deal with issue. I brought Pali because I wanted him to discuss the Geothermal Asset Fund and how it was developed. If you don't mind, I'd like you to hear that so that, you Page 24 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 know—and I actually got all the paperwork for the Geothermal Asset Fund. I also went to ask for some ideas as to how I could template something like this for helping our emergency responders, helping County, to go and fix their pipes. I want to help them be able to help us, you know. And that's the reason why my idea of this asset fund came to be. If you could retrieve the fees that went to the oil tanks, I mean, their fees go straight to this OSLTF (Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund). And this is where the fund goes. I didn't know this. You can go and apply. I mean shouldn't these fees come to the people that it's impacting? Right? We don't get any of that. But they said you can go and apply for it. So these things we can talk about on the tale to find some ways and means to fund our emergency responders. Make them equipped. They told me that their outfits cost $3,000 apiece and they were only able to get a few. You budgeted them this year. So I got to hear how they feel that they could be more prepared if they had the money. Right? And so, this is me going, "Gosh, how can I help you get the money?" You know, so I wanted him to go over the asset fund. I was told that we have no jurisdictions in telling any State entity what to do. Like you said, it's the State. We telling the State, "Hey you guys have got to give money," you know. But there has got to be a way to be able to have these people do their best practices. And there has got to be a way for them to figure out what responsibility they have as a corporate social responsibility. Every business knows about that, what they need to do. So I wanted him to explain. MR. DEDMAN: You know, the Geothermal Asset Fund is not a taxpayer's burden. It doesn't pay that. That is just royalty monies, right? And you just wait for your envelope every month to come to your mailbox and here is your cut from geothermal royalties. While County gets 30 percent, OHA gets 20, and the State gets 50 percent. So I think they are obligated to fund some of these studies, and these monitoring devices and look into these problems, because it's the people of Puna that are being affected. The Big Island's taking the bite of this, and the State's taking all the money and not looking at how they remedy the problems while they are taking it, and they are hanging onto it in Honolulu. And OHA takes the other 20 percent. I call it prostitution money, you know? They know that they are raping a religious belief for 20 percent. So, that is what they are getting out of it. So there is other ways of going after the funding, and it's because it does come from the Big Island, and it does affect the people. So you have more of an argument to the State to get some funding from them and not just take taxpayers' money. It's not taxpayers' money. If you could take these asset funds and go, like Billy, go fix the roads and spend the monies all down Puna for these alternative roads; that was asset money. So you guys can take, to me, for the use of how they put the monies around in use. I just thought that would be a way of looking at funding instead of saying, " Page 25 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 We no more money, so you go die," and just look at other alternatives. It's like 50 cents out of a dollar. They get 50 cents. You get 30 cents and OHA gets 20. These are two State agencies that are taking 70 percent of royalty from geothermal, and the County only gets 30. I think you can demand some funding to come back to take care of the problems that geothermal and the people need for their own safety and well-being. MS. NAPEAHL I looked at the special funds and open space fund. I also looked at that as well, you know, as a remedy how to create this special fund. How many of us are willing to go and ask these companies? Ask, you know, they can volunteer? Because one, royalty fund for geothermal isn't a voluntary asset fund. Really, you are going to get these guys to volunteer putting into this asset fund? They're going to say, well we pay this fee, and we pay that fee, we pay that fee. Well, it's still their responsibility, I'm sorry. I have showed you violations. I have showed you decades of infractions; decades. We're not talking just yesterday. We're talking emissions that have been released into the air, land and ground excessively, over thresholds. So I know Bill Kurcharski explained how they are only monitoring so that they can operate within thresholds. Well, what has been happening with the cracks that have been there for decades? You know, taking into consideration the Clean Water Act violation. That is serious as far as I'm concerned, legally. Violations on the Clean Water Act. Can this be taken to the state or federal litigation, is something that I was looking at. So, any more questions for me? All right. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you all. I know it's getting very late. And I just really appreciate that you've been able to come forward with all of this information. There is so much to consider. MS. NAPEAHL Was it overwhelming? CHR. O'HARA: It is a bit overwhelming, but environmental issues like this are overwhelming, and it's been going on for a long time, so it's compounded and compounded. And you know, you speak of the corporate social responsibility; and yes, that is a possible a way of bringing together some funding to do some of the things that you are requesting, the community emergency response plan, the community health study. But as I think Sue pointed out earlier and with regard to the asset fund, that was constructed in the permitting process. And we don't we're not at that point with the development of the facilities in Keaukaha. They've been there for years and years and years. But there is still obligations for certain regulated facilities to give money to community for these purposes. So it is something that we can help investigate. But the oil fund is more interesting, and it's, again, not something that we have any jurisdiction over a County Council, but it would be an interesting thing to see how that could be sourced out to help fund the asset fund? And there is also the Page 26 EMC -5 August 1, 2017 consideration of applying foroh, Bill is still here. Of applying for an Environmental Justice grant through EPA, and that would help fund the things that you're asking for, the community health studies, and the community emergency response plan. That is another avenue for getting money. Because it always comes downtown to, I hate to say it, it always comes down to not having the money. The wastewater plant needs upgrades, there is no question; no question. As far as relocation, I don't know. But the piping needs to be relocated and we probably could all agree on that. But again, at a huge expense. So we need to start pooling funding for these major infrastructure upgrades, because it so affects our community. And yes, maybe when this all started in the beginning of the 1900s, Keaukaha and Pana`ewa we're like a long, long way away and it was considered even a remote community to even to Hilo town. But you know, we're a little city now and we're all connected and we're all living together, and we've got to take care of each other and we've got to take care of the environment. And we're not doing the bestest job right now, really. So I really appreciate you came here. I know we talked about doing this earlier in the year. Because I got to meet you, Terri when we got involved in the whole greenwaste contract scuffle earlier on in the year. And I totally support what your community is asking for, the environment justice that your community is asking for. MS. NAPEAHL Thank you. CHR. O'HARA: And also pledge any support that I can give. A lot of it, as we've talked about, is at higher levels of jurisdiction. But there are a lot of smart people in the room, and if we all work together I think we can make some head room here and start giving back to the community, what it deserves to get. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it. MS. NAPEAHL I appreciate it. Thank you. MR. DEDMAN: Thank all you guys. MS. NAPEAHL Thank you so much. I have to—thank you. I appreciate all of you, especially coming to our community and at least answering our questions. And you know, we're not only complaining, we're trying to find remedies and that's why we're here today. Thank you. MR. DEDMAN: Thank you. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you. It's an immense amount of work and you have a lot of ahead of you, too. But thank you so much for doing that. MS. NAPEAHL Thank you. Page 27 EMC-5 August 1, 2017 CHR. O'HARA: Okay guys, that is the end, can we have a motion to adjourn? MR. MAEDA: Close file, we've got to close file. CHR. O'HARA: Oh, we've got to close file. We've got to vote, guys. Sorry. It's getting late. All those in favor? Vote on Comm. 363: The motion to close file on Comm. 363 was carried by the (Filed) following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara—7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Richards—2. Excused: None. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions. (There were none.) BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) ADJOURN There being no further business, at 6:42 p.m., Ms. David moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara—7. Noes: None Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Richards—2. Excused: None. Approved: 4017‘v At/vi., 5./Phs. Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair (Date) Environmental Management Committee EO/ja Page 28