HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PSMTC 2018/01/23 2016-2018COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY AND
MASS TRANSIT
61h Session
West Hawaii Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
January 23, 2018
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Public Safety and Mass Transit
ORDER: was called to order at 9:06 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by
Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms.
Jennifer Ruggles, Chair
Ms.
Karen Eoff, Vice Chair
Mr.
Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member (came in later)
Ms.
Maile Medeiros David, Member
Mr.
Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member
Ms.
Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Ms.
Eileen O'Hara, Member
Ms.
Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Mr.
Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member
STATEMENTS Chair Ruggles directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individual registered to speak, and came forward when called by
Chair Ruggles:
Lisa Myrick:
(representing Hawaii Wing,
Civil Air Patrol)
Aiden Alvarez:
(representing Hawaii Wing,
Civil Air Patrol)
Jim Albertini:
(representing Malu Aina)
Comm. 702, comment.
Comm. 702, comment.
Comm. 702, comment.
Dwight Vicente: Comm. 702, comment.
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Recess:
Reconvene:
R erect
Reconvene:
COMMUNI-
r A TTnNc -
Change Order
of Business:
Abelghassem Abraham Sadegh
At 9:24 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
The meeting reconvened at 9:28 a.m.
Toby Hazel:
Joyce Alberta Folena:
Hannah Hedreck:
Geoff Shaw:
Gregory T. Smith:
At 9:50 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
The meeting reconvened at 9:57 a.m.
January 23, 2018
Comm. 697, comment; and
Comm. 702, comment.
Comm. 697; and
Comm. 702; comment.
Comm. 702, in support.
Comm. 697. 1, comment.
Comm. 702, comment.
Comm. 702, comment.
Chair Ruggles directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
Communications.
CHR. RUGGLES: We're going to take Communication 702 out of order, by
request. First, Mr. Clerk, Communication 702.
As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Committee Members,
the following items were taken out of order.
Comm. 702: REQUESTS TO DEBRIEF AND DISCUSS THE FALSE ALARM
NOTIFICATION FROM THE STATE OF HAWAII EMERGENCY
MANAGEMENT AGENCY — DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
From Council Chairwoman Valerie T. Poindexter, dated January 17, 2018. Mayor
Harry Kim and representatives from the State of Hawaii Civil Defense, County of
Hawaii Civil Defense, the Hawaii Police Department, and the Hawaii Fire
Department are requested to provide a briefing and participate in a discussion
regarding the false alarm event of January 13, 2018.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 702.
Seconded by Ms. Eoff.
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January 23, 2018
(Note: At this time, Mayor Harry Kim, Civil Defense Administrator
Talmadge Magno, Police Chief Paul Ferreira, and Deputy Fire Chief
Renwick Victorino came forward to address members of the Committee.
Hawaii Emergency Management Agency Public Information Officer
Richard Rapoza also participated in this discussion, via telephone
conference.)
CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, Council Members, we're going to call this meeting
back to order. Looks like we're set up there in Hilo. We'll go ahead and call on
Ms. Poindexter to lead the discussion.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. So this morning we have
with us at the Emergency Management Agency, Richard Rapoza. I think he's on
telephone conference or videoconference? Is it telephone? Telephone. And then
we have Talmadge Magno from Civil Defense. Mayor Kim is here, and I know
Mayor has to leave shortly, so we may want to take him first. And then we have
our Police Chief Ferreira, and standing in for our Fire Chief, is Deputy Renwick
Victorino, I think, is there in the Hilo Chambers.
But before we get started, I'd first like to just give a shout -out to Na Leo TV, whc
is our public television station here, who has been doing a great job in informing
the public, keeping us informed on what's been going on. And if you go to their
website, they have a menu bar that says video on demand and we can all look at
the Civil Defense preparedness video there, too. I think it's very valuable to have
that information. So again, thank you, Na Leo TV.
As we heard from the testifiers, that false alarm was such a humbling experience.
For me, it was such a rude awakening knowing that we need to try to look at
remedying the weak spots and how do we deal with the fall -out, not just with
addressing the weak spots but addressing the mental health fall -out. You know,
as you heard one of the testifiers state, one of her friends are now just terrified
even to go outdoors. And can you imagine for those who are already suffering
with the post-traumatic stress disorder, what they are going through, as well? So
there is not just us getting prepared better, but how do we deal with all of the fall-
out with mental health issues? You know, with the keiki too, as well, what they
had to go through.
So at this time, maybe we'll afford Mayor Kim the opportunity since he has to
leave. Is Mayor Kim still there in Hilo? Yes, I see him there. Mayor Kim, can
you come up and give us a brief overview before we go to our Emergency
Management Agency on O `ahu?
MAYOR KIM: Good morning. I don't think I have to tell anyone listening to or
reviewing this program in regard to thought process of what has happened.
Because of my past experience of this, back in the 70's of nuclear preparation and
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the Cold War of the 60's on up -50's on up I should say, you know, this is a rude
awakening for many. But people of my age, this is just regurgitation of what the
past was like. I'm sure almost everyone was praying and hoping that they would
end Cold War and this kind of nuclear threat to world's population would be our
past. Unfortunately all we did was repress it because it never did go away, and in
short, the capability, I would say, stress the word "capability," is even worse than
it ever was in 50's, 60's, or 70's, strictly because of our nuclear capability to
destroy.
All this past week was a re -awakening and reality of what is there. This is not a
time, I think, to grab this opportunity to make us realize this situation has been
there all of these years. I guess just as a defense mechanism, we choose not to
really face the reality of what is there.
I am very sorry, as everyone connected to it is, very, very sorry for the trauma
caused by the mistake by the system. No one makes an excuse of that, but I will
say as justification of what happened, the State government was just trying to be
proactive in what they perceived as a nuclear threat to this island because of a
country called North Korea. But the threat itself and the planning itself for a
nuclear situation is way beyond that and has always been there since the use of
A-bomb back in World War II.
In regards to where we go as a people, as a country, as I was sitting waiting there
to be called, I need to ask myself that question as my Civil Defense responsibility
and also as the Mayor of this island, what do I bring out in regards to those
responsible and how do we do it, in regards to what is this country's responsibility
to the people of this country, in regards to preparedness for a nuclear situation?
That is a very, very difficult question to answer. Asking it, is obviously simple.
For those of you who are of the Cold War days, there was a commitment by this
country of preparing as best as we can, with the knowledge we had at that time, in
regard to preparing the people of this country for a nuclear disaster. I am sure
there are many listeners right now that remember that, in regard to drills. In
regard to the Federal government spending billions and billions, I have no idea
how much money to all the jurisdictions for equipment, for training, as well as
food supplies in the event that horrible, horrible day would come. I was in charge
of Civil Defense a part of that time. I was in charge of Civil Defense when a
decision was made on the Federal level, to downgrade the participation as far as
preparedness.
We had at one time, the law states in this United States, including at that time the
Territory of Hawaii, equipment, training, and even food supplies in the event that
would happen. I was in charge, and we were ordered not ordered but instructed,
that we would destroy all of the outdated equipment; including the blankets and
cots, including medical supplies, including food; and I remember tranquilizers,
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crackers, high -protein candies, et cetera. This is an awakening, a real awakening
of that horrible, horrible time of what our responsibilities were.
On that particular day, last week Saturday, I was called at approximately eight
minutes after eight in the morning (8:08 a.m.) on Saturday by a friend who
received the message. Went to work and did our job as best as we could. You
allow yourself a few seconds to feel what is happening and then you go and do
your job. I think your Hawaii County Civil Defense Agency, with the
information they had did the best they could. And with that, staff will tell you we
vowed among ourselves, regardless of how we did or did not do, our job is to
always try to do better.
No different than last night. For those of you who are not aware, we were taken
out of our home, those responders who are behind me, the Police and Fire, Civil
Defense, because we had a tsunami threat from Alaska. An earthquake occurred
just before midnight or so, 11:57 last night, and we were alerted and we go to
work because we're officially on tsunami watch. This kind of responses is just
part of the job. Fortunately, that did not materialize into a warning status, but we
were on a warning status until approximately 10 minutes after 1:00 in the
morning. So doubt it if most of the responders got any sleep between then and
now.
I'll answer any questions you may have on what we did, do, and what we know of
the system. I will continue my discussion with the governor. As we started
yesterday and before that, in regards where we go from here as far as response, as
far as responsibilities, as far as training, and those things; and above all,
correction to be better.
MS. POINDEXTER: Than you, Mayor. So let's go tobefore we, I guess, do
questions, if we can go to our Emergency Management Agency, Richard Rapoza.
Are you online?
MR. RAPOZA: Yes, I'm here.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yes, can you give us a brief overview of what has
transpired since then, so that we know how to better prep ourselves too, for the
questions or concerns that we have.
MR. RAPOZA: Well, in terms of the error that occurred on Saturday that
triggered the false alarm, we've got a couple of things. One is to trigger an actual
alert now requires two people to trigger it. It needs one person to initiate the alert
and the second person to confirm it. On Saturday, it was all done by one person.
It was determined just as a matter of safety, two people should be involved in this.
We've also instituted within the menu system a pre -created template to send out a
false alarm message.
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So one of the problems that we had on the 13th, was that although it was realized
pretty quickly that there was a false alarm, there was no mechanism in the system
to send out a message to say "False alarm." So creating that took a number of
steps. That was 38 minutes where people were not aware, were not broadly aware
that there had been a false alarm. So for us, those two steps in, you know,
sending an actual alert we think protects the system. The other we've done, is
we've suspended all drills until further notice, so there's not going to be any more
of those tests.
There's also, the Governor has issued an Executive Order calling on General
Kenny Hara to do an investigation, and we've also have a general investigation
going on with General (Bruce) Oliveira. General Oliveira's investigation, we
believe a report will be out by the end of this week. General Hara's investigation
will take 30 to 60 days. So, we're looking forward to a very thorough review of
our operations and potentially identifying other areas of concern.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, thank you. Really quick, and the reason why I
thought the Police Department and the Fire Department should be here, is because
they were very involved with this as well. We have a Nixle system, and I'm
wondering if we could possibly even have used that system to alert our island
people, when we found out sooner, or however that was handled.
We also have Civil Defense Talmadge Magno. Do you want to give a brief
overview before we open up for questions?
MR. MAGNO: Good morning, Chairperson Poindexter. I'd like to thank you for
your initial plug for Na Leo. I thank Stacy Higa and his operation for producing
that video that we put out prior to this event. We're really pushing that so that
possibly it could reduce people's anxiety.
On the 13th, I got the notice just like everybody else through the text alert. You
know, right away I could see the flaws in the system as far as cell phones being
busy, so pretty limited communication. My staff as well received alerts and
responded appropriately. So by 8:07 a.m., one of the other administrators was in
the office, and by 8:10 he had received over the State warning point the false alert
message. As other responders arrived, they progressed to get the radio message
out and push out our mass notification message through our blackboard system.
Pretty much that's the products that we have to do that. It was accomplished. We
could definitely could do it faster, but that's what we used to get it out.
I think the County responded appropriately. The majority of the cabinet heads
and other department heads arrived at the EOC (Emergency Operations Center) to
assist the response and get the notice out. The incoming calls that were coming
in, pretty much one after another, on top of each other. Once the messages went
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out, they started to get reduced, you know, within a pretty quick timeframe. So it
was apparent that the message had gotten out and people were made aware of the
false alarm.
So pretty much that's it for us. We've been reviewing our programs as well,
using lessons learned to improve. Also it was apparent to us that we need to do a
better job as far educating the public. So we're pushing at Na Leo video. We
continue to do outreach, you know, speak at different committees and so forth.
That will be an ongoing task that we have from here on out. Thank you.
MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you. The blackboard system, can you just explain
that for the public? What is the blackboard system?
MR. MAGNO: It's our vendor. Our contract vendor for mass messaging, similar
to what Nixle is for the Police Department. Same thing. You sign up.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. Does it go to the phones? Oh, you have to sign up
for that?
MR. MAGNO: You sign up for it, just like you do for the Nixle. The blackboard
goes text message, email, and it can go voice message for phones as well.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, and how do you sign up? Do you just go—is there
an online at Civil Defense, our website?
MR. MAGNO: Yes. On the Civil Defense website, you can access the app to
sign up for blackboard, and Nixle as well.
MS. POINDEXTER: Oh, good. Okay, thank you. I'll open it up to our Council
Members. Do you want to hear, first, brief overview from our Police Chief and
Fire Chief? Yes? Okay. Police Chief, if you're able to give us a brief overview,
as well?
MR. FERREIRA: Good morning, Council Members. As far as the Police
Department goes, I am very proud of our Dispatch Center and of our personnel
that was on duty, recognizing that they are first responders. While everyone else
was home cuddling families, our officers and our dispatchers stayed on the job.
I'll give you an idea, our Dispatch Center, between 0807 (8:07), when the alert
was first set out until 8:45, when the false alarm was put out officially, fielded
550 calls in our 911 center. An additional 186 calls were abandoned; these are
calls that are pushed off because the lines were so busy or inundated. And then
continuing on, 8:45 to 10:30, they fielded an additional 262 calls, with three
abandon calls, as well.
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In addition, when you call the 911 emergency line, if you're using a cellular
telephone or a VOIP phone, the calls are diverted if the system is inundated, and it
goes to an in -throttle call center in, I believe it's Colorado. There were 121 of
those calls that were needed to be answered, as well.
In all, our Dispatch Center handled 1,019 calls between the timeframe, from when
the alert was first at 08:07, until 10:30, which was the cut-off that we saw the calls
diminish.
All of the abandon calls and the calls that were made to the in -throttle call center
answered by our dispatch, excuse me, were called back by dispatchers, and all of
these were related to the alert as well.
As far as our patrol operations, they didn't report any significant incidents, or
major incidents. We did, however, have individuals from the community, mostly
tourists that came over to our station seeking information or seeking shelter. I
believe the Kealakehe station had approximately 40 to 50 individuals. They were
primarily driving the down the highway and had nowhere else to go. Our North
Kohala station had four families that went to the station. Our Puna district
reported two individuals seeking information, and our South Hilo station reported
about five vehicles that came to the station looking for shelter.
Again, our officers and our first responders need to—this was an awaking for
them, needing to prepare their families that in the event of any emergency such as
this or like the tsunami alert last night, they have to be comfortable with the fact
that their families are taken cared of, and they need to respond to work as they
did, and we're very proud of that.
As with any emergency we look at our protocols, what our procedures were, and
there's always room for improvement. I believe that the Civil Defense Agency,
the way it was handled, was exceptional on Hawaii Island as it has always been
in any emergency. They stand up the EOC, the Emergency Operations Center. It
is in the best interest of the community. It was handled in my mind, after being
there that morning, very appropriately for the information and resources they had.
With regards to the Nixle alert, was it put out? I'm not sure. I cannot verify that
it was or it wasn't, and the reason for that is because of the lines being so
inundated, if they pushed out a Nixle alert, it was not going through on the phone
lines. I don't believe the blackboard went out as well. I'm not sure. There was a
delay in the system.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, thank you.
MR. FERREIRA: Any questions?
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MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, I'll ask our Deputy Fire Chief to come up. Deputy
Victorino, and give us a brief overview before we open it up for questions.
MR. VICTORINO: Good morning, Council. First of all, I just want to start off
with a bright note. Chief Rosario is not here today. He's in the East Coast, doing
a final inspection on one of our tankers. That tanker is for the District 9, Waimea
District. That's the reason why I'm filling in today for him.
But anyway, on that Saturday we were conducting our firefighter recruit agility
test up at Hilo High School. I had just got through briefing about 45 members of
our department on their roles and responsibility. Just about to that alert coming
out, I told our staff that part of the responsibilities is to turn off your cell phone
while candidates are going through the assessment.
At the time that alarm went off, one of staff members said, "Oh, it's just a test."
Then guys started pulling out their phone, a staff member said it's a missile
attack. Luckily, I had two of my Assistant Fire Chiefs (AC) with me assisting, so
we excused ourselves. I directed one of my ACs to contact Civil Defense, at
which time he did. They didn't—it was still confirmed as a missile attack, so I
directed him to go down to the EOC and see what was going on over there.
So in the meantime, I went back and briefed my personnel that it's still confirmed
that the missile is inbound so the agility test, you know, we'll cancel it, postpone
it. And we had candidates already lined up to participate in the agility test. So
went ahead and notified them, I told the 45 members, you know, if you guys can
make it home, make it home, if not go to the closest fire station and take shelter
over there.
As soon as my AC got to Civil Defense, I guess, they got word that it was
cancelled. So I notified the rest of the crew that was with me and we continued
to—most of the staff already left, I had some crew that were there to assist me in
breaking down. So we broke down and then I sent one of my to our Fire dispatch.
They were getting inundated with calls, not 911 calls but just calls from the
general public asking, you know, what they should do. So basically, their
response is just to shelter in place.
As far as the amount of calls that they received, I don't have a number on that. I
don't have any reports of any major emergencies that our personnel went out on.
I know there were members from the public that did stop by the station seeking
information and shelter, at which time they were welcomed into the station.
Like Chief Ferreira, for us it is a learning experience. We're looking at our
policies and making adjustments and changes to our response protocols. Other
than that, that's all I have. Any questions?
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MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, Madam Chair, I'll yield at this time for the others.
CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, great. Thank you. Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I actually have a question for Police Chief
Ferreira or Civil Defense Director Magno.
You mentioned that there are different ways that you folks push out this
information. One is the County Blackboard system; and then Nixle has theI'm
sorry, HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) has the Nixle system. My question is,
are these alerts just text alerts or do they have a voice component? Because my
concern is we have families with visually impaired or blind; and it's one thing to
get an alert, but if there's no voice component to that, how can they be informed?
MAYOR KIM: This is Harry. I'm going to answer that, initially, just to explain
overall how the system does work. With your statement, and we enforce, that we
will always, regardless, like last night or early this morning, try to be better.
I need everyone to be aware that regardless of what system they're referring to,
like the Blackboard, it is only part of the entire system, including the sirens. Take
back on that day, on that Saturday at 8:24, all radio stations on this island was
carrying the message that this was a human error, disregard. At approximately
8:11, all Police Districts were notified by their dispatcher that this was a human
error, disregard, and as best as possible, try to spread the word that this was not
real, this was just a human error. Fire Department likewise, the same.
I can honestly say here that I don't think there was any confusion by any
department any responders after we were notified by State Civil Defense, the
warning point, that this was not real, this was a human error. Because we have,
which I'm proud of, a centralized system where everybody reports giving a
simple message of what the status is like last night or this morning, and that is
disseminated and that happened the Saturday before last.
I need to emphasize, because people are going to talk about Blackboard and other
means. Each one of those are used as best as we can, but each one of those is not
depended upon in entirety. They're just part of the entire system that we use.
MR. MAGNO: So regarding the Blackboard that Civil Defense uses, it has three
capabilities. So text, email and it will also do the voice.
CHIEF FERREIRA: As far as the Nixle system that the Police Department
utilizes, it's strictly text and email. Just to emphasize, when the alert does go out,
it tells you to tune to the radio or tune to the TV for the voice reports.
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MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Magno; thank you Chief I think that was my
concern, because I have a lot of kupunas in my district, and they're used to or
have grown up with turning on the radio. So I just wanted to make sure there was
some connection or some nexus between the Blackboard system and the Nixle
system that is then populated to the radio stations. I'm lucky enough to have
family members who have a radio station. So even they were concerned—maybe
not so much concerned, but inundated with calls at the radio station about what's
the accurate information.
So I'm going to yield at this time. I think there are a number of opportunities here
for us to learn from this experience. I absolutely appreciate the redundancy, but
also that redundancy has to work succinctly in other areas. So if we could look at
those components and the robustness of our wireless systems, our landlines, and
our communications interdepartmentally and then to the public, I think that would
be an incredible tool for us going forward on how to plan fiscally to be more
responsible in the future. I yield, thank you.
CHR. RUGGLES: Thank you. Mr. Kanuha.
MR. KANUHA: Thank you, Madam Chair. Mahalo everybody, for being here.
In terms of the public and that's who we heard from, to me and from everybody
that I talked to, it was a disaster of all proportions. Thank God this wasn't a real
instance of ballistic missile headed towards Hawaii. You know, I guess at the
least, we know what we're capable of and we know what we have to improve in
the future. Really, I did want to try to figure out what is the ability of all cell
phones to get notifications. You know, I never got a notification. I must have got
called 100 times that morning by family, friends, co-workers, staff, trying to
figure out what was going on, and I had no idea. I tried to call Civil Defense or
any other agency that had knowledge of it. We couldn't get through.
So that's something that we really need to look at. I turned on the TV because I
don't have the radio option at home. Turned on the TV and all I saw was red
blaring across the TV for the next 15-20 minutes saying, "This is not a drill. This
is not a drill." So I had to call everybody back saying it's not a drill, and I had no
clue what to do. I just said to everybody stay put. So that's something that we've
got to figure out. Is all cell phones available to get these messages? Because I
never even got the next State message saying that this was a false alarm.
Everybody else were the ones telling me. I even looked at my cell phone to see if
it was even turned on to receive those messages, and it was.
You know, the whole question here is trying to figure out what the County's role
is to play in a situation like this. Is the Police Department, the Fire Department
there just to help notify the public of what to do? Or are there certain measures
that the Police Department and Fire Department take to help, I don't know, with
anybody who's out on the streets, on the roads. Or with Civil Defense, what is
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the role that Civil Defense plays with a situation like this? Because you have
15-20 minutes to figure out what to do, and I don't know—actually, I have no
idea how long you have to take, but maybe Civil Defense or Police or if anybody
can answer, what is the County's role to play in something like this in a real
situation?
MR. MAGNO: I'll take that question. Civil Defense's role in this situation
would be to get the information out to the public
MS. POINDEXTER: Madam Chair, just one second. If you could remind them
to introduce themselves before speaking because of the minutes. So if we can
identify who is speaking. Thank you.
MR. MAGNO: This is Administrator Magno from Civil Defense. Civil
Defense's role in this or any other emergency is to keep communication and
information flowing to the public so that they're aware of what's going on so that
there's less conflict with them. This situation, like I said earlier, we did come in
and release the radio message, release our Blackboard messaging, and we did
make sure that the Police and Fire had that information. So we just start pushing
information out, and that's some of the shortcomings we've seen, that not
everybody gets that message. So we're trying to get people to sign up, make sure
we're using every available resource that we have out there to get the information
to people.
MR. KANUHA: So let's say that it was a real situation and it wasn't a false
alarm. What would that messaging be by Civil Defense?
MR. MAGNO: So that message actually, the way it came out from State
Emergency Management (EMA), that was what the State plan called for,
basically. They're going direct information from Pacific Command, to State
Warning Point. State Warning Point pushes out that information. So not until
State Warning Point pushes out that information, you know, which will also
include the siren initiation plus the alert messaging, that's going to be our first
notification as well. Once that message comes through for the nuclear attack,
basically everybody should be seeking shelter. My staff will be responding to the
EOC and it will our messages as soon as we get onsite at the EOC. But in this
case, the State would be pushing out that message, the initial message.
MR. KANUHA: Thank you. I'll follow up with the State, which I forgot he's
still on the line. I haven't seen the video that you made with Na Leo and I think
maybe I need to watch it as soon as possible and the rest of the public needs to as
well. But I think in terms of educating the public about what to do, it would be
really good to come around to all our different communities and hold some public
meetings. I know a lot of people are still afraid, and I guess maybe that's the
times we're living in right now. It's a very real reality about this terrible
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situation. But I think the more people know and the more educated they are about
exactly what to do within 15, 20, 30 minutes of something like this being alerted
across all of society, I think the better off we are so we don't have this chaos.
Because that morning was just crazy. It wasn't fun for any person living here in
Hawaii.
MR. RAPOZA: This is Richard Rapoza from State. We've been doing a number
of community meetings across the State to help the community understand not
only the nature of the risk, but also how to prepare for it. So we continue to
schedule those. In fact, we just got a contact this morning from Representative
San Bueanaventura's office. So we'll be community meeting out there in
conjunction with her office. So we've been doing a lot of things in conjunction
with State Representatives. So I'm sure that we'll be doing more across Hawaii
Island. So if people just keep their eyes open, I'm sure there will be a chance for
them to see more.
Also, if they go to our website, ready.hawaii.gov, there's a videotaped
presentation that's the same information on the nature of the risk, and all risks,
from tsunamis, hurricanes, and a nuclear threat, and the best way for people to
prepare for it.
MR. KANUHA: Thank you. Can you say that website just one more time
clearly?
MR. RAPOZA: That's ready.hawaii.gov.
MR. KANUHA: Got it, ready.hawaii.gov. Okay, thank you for that. Also,
please can you keep us informed about when the community meetings are
happening on Hawaii Island so that we can get that out to our constituents?
MR. RAPOZA: Yeah, we'll make sure that we let the community know and we'll
also let your County Civil Defense know. They've been really helpful to us. So
we'll keep you in the loop.
MR. KANUHA: Okay, thank you. I don't want to take all the time, but you
know, I was trying not to get too emotional with this, but it was really frustrating
during the time. I just had to, I guess, state that. I know I'm not the only one, so
I'm sure you're hearing a lot about that. And you know, we've just got to do
things better. Not only with the departments, but better all over the place with
regards to getting information out to the public. So I hope we definitely learn
from this situation. I yield.
MR. RAPOZA: I think one thing we did learn, and this is Richard Rapoza again,
despite doing a lot of community outreach, the community really wasn't prepared,
or as prepared as we had hoped they would be. For me personally, I must have
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gotten 30 phone calls just from people I know, calling me that morning to see
what was going on and what they should do. So we are putting a lot of effort now
into continuing these community meetings. Now that we have more interest and
attention from the community, we want to make sure that everybody who wants
the information can get to it easily. So you can look forward to seeing us a lot
more in your community.
MR. KANUHA: Thank you for that. And real quickly, this isn't taking away
from the job that I know Emergency Management does for the State and Hawaii
County Civil Defense does for our island. They do a stellar job in preparing us
for all types of natural disasters. But this is really a unique case that, you know,
something to learn from and really be prepared for. So again, not taking away
from the great work that all of those individuals do on a day-to-day basis
preparing our state for any types of disasters that could happen.
CHR. RUGGLES: Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. I'm going to echo Council Woman
Lee Loy and Councilman Kanuha's, some of their statements. On Saturday
morning, my phone exploded right at 8:07.2. I mean, it went off My concern,
I'm less bothered by the fact that it actually occurred, and more bothered by the
fact that our response to the occurrence was so stutter -step and problematic. I'll
echo what Dru just mentioned. Really appreciate Emergency Management.
Truly, truly appreciate Civil Defense and all the work they do. That being said,
this was a false alarm, but it was a true real drill in the sense we had the emotional
contacts and the emotional response that my constituentsI mean, they're still
angry about it. We went from despair to anger through all this.
So could someone go through the timeline with me as far as 8:07, we had the
warning, when was it determined at Emergency Management, I think it's for
Rapoza, you can probably answer this, when was it determined that was a false
alarm, at what time? Do you have that?
MR. RAPOZA: So at 8:07 the false alarm was triggered. By 8:10, Adjutant
General Logan was aware of it. He had contacted pra-com, and within our State
Warning Point, they knew immediately that there was a false alarm. So from that
point, I mean from 8:08, 8:09, 8:10, it was already known among certain people,
and we started spreading the word that there was a false alarm through the
channels that we had available to us.
You know, personally, I called a bunch of local media. We had other people in
our circle calling the media. General Logan was making calls to people. So it
was a matter of getting it out that way while the IT guys worked on getting the
broader message out to the public.
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January 23, 2018
MR. RICHARDS: And then Civil Defense, Talmadge, when did you receive the
information?
MR. MAGNO: Administrator Magno. So the other Administrator, Bill Hanson,
was right at the EOC shortly after 8:07. So he heard the, what we call the Halo
communication, come through that it was a false alert at 8:10. So from that point,
they started pushing out their messages.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, as Councilman Kanuha said, his phone went off
Everybody's phone went off, and I think part of the challenge here is that the
Council people, as has been reiterated numerous times, we're the closest
government to people in the communities, and we had no information. I can
appreciate it may have been pushed out on the radio, but I'm going to ask as we
look through this whole process, it looks like in three minutes we started knowing
this was false alarm, which is great. It worked at that level, but it wasn't getting
out further. That's where my constituents were angry about that. They weren't
able to get that information.
I'm not a tech guy. I don't pretend I am. I know we've got to look at the
phones, because mine went off with the alert, but I never saw anything with the
all clear. I think we've got some stutter -steps there. I would also ask that I think
the part of the phone tree if you will, or communication tree, we're going to need
to include elected officials. The Mayor needs to be notified right away, the
County Council needs to be notified right away, on things like this because we
can help manage the situation like that if we have information, but we couldn't
get information.
So I think, like I said, I'm more for giving about the accident button than I am
about the management afterwards, because there was about 30 minutes there
where I have very angry, very upset people, and I was dealing the best I could
deal with that. That bothers me more than anything else, is that lack of
communication, or the stutter -step.
So I'm not going to belabor the point, but I think we really have to look at that.
The information was there, but it wasn't getting to people that could help manage
the situation. So with that, Chair, I'll yield.
CHR. RUGGLES: Thanks. Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. Aloha and Mahalo to all our agencies that are
here today on this important subject. I believe what Mr. Richards has suggested, I
hope that can be implemented because we were receiving so many calls. I
actually had a number for a Civil Defense personnel that I worked with on Oahu
on our sirens here in my district, and I happened to have his number, so when the
alert went off, I called and found out pretty quickly that it was a false alarm. But
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then I tried to spread the message, and after spreading that message, people were
calling, "Are you sure?" "There's nothing on the TV, there's nothing on the
radio." And so those minutes are critical even when you're trying to say, "Don't
worry, it's a false alarm." You second guess yourself because you don't see that
band across the TV, you don't even see—number one, I questioned whether it
was for real at the very onset, because I didn't hear any sirens.
So being in the rural area, you depend on the emergency notification via a siren,
or your television set and your radio. It was so conflicting that I'm so glad that
we're now discussing this, because however the State notifies the television
stations, I think if people saw the band on the TV right away, like three minutes or
as soon as they knew that it was a false alarm, I think you could have reached so
many thousands of people. So I'm not sure how we can improve that part of it,
getting our media via the television to put that band up, because even though I
was notifying people that it was a false alarm, they go, "No it's not, because it's
on the TV."
So you know, and in that few minutes, after awhile, they said, "Well, if it is true,
we've got 15 minutes." There's nothing really, except to stay in and hunker
down. That's theI think a lot of people figured that much. Instead of driving.
Where are you going to go? Just stay there with your family and ride it out.
So I appreciate my suggestion would be that is it safe to assume that if we don't
hear a siren, is it safe for our people to assume that it might not be. I don't know,
because that was the question in my mind. I don't hear a siren and all we see is
it's for real on the TV. So I think the communication part for the television would
be really great, as well as Mr. Richards' suggestion, outreach to as many
government officials and even the hospitals for that matter, you know. So that
would be my comment and my suggestion and I really, really thank everybody for
actually coming together and trying to find a solution for this. So mahalo, I yield.
CHR. RUGGLES: Thank you, Ms. David. Ms. Eof£
MS. EOFF: Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to everyone that's here today
and thank you to our Chair for bringing this forward on all of our behalf. Each of
us wanted to have this presentation today.
For me, I know that the error is not likely to happen again. We hope not. But the
lesson is that there's not a consistent message going out. I also did not get the
original alert on my cell phone. I got a follow-up alert that said that it was a
mistake. I am signed up for the Nixle and Blackboard and all those things on my
phone. So I still really have a—I've heard lots of people telling us that not
everyone received the alert and it doesn't have to do with the carrier or the cell
phone model or anything like that, so I'm just still wondering what was the reason
why there's not a consistent message going out, because in the case of a real
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emergency, you would want to make sure that everybody does get alerted. So
that's just one thing going forward that I'm sure we're going to be working on
and getting those answers.
And the other thing is for all of us to be better prepared. You know, we've all
learned that now, that rather than panic as Ms. Myrick has said, the more prepared
we are, the more calmingly we'll react. So I want to thank Mr. Rapoza for
offering to come to our island, and I would encourage each of us to find a venue
in our communities, because even though this is being televised—and yesterday
internally, we had a briefing from Civil Defense and watched a video on
preparedness but there's a lot of information there. Even in that one hour of
video, there was a lot to digest.
So I think the more we inform people, and of course going into the schools. I'm
going to look into how maybe the Civil Air Patrol, that program can help educate
their fellow students. Maybe we can arrange for some kind of outreach to our
local schools. But a lot of things have come up today that have helped us to
realize that going forward that we on an island should be more prepared and know
what to do, and improve our outreach alerts.
So thank you all again, and I won't take up too much more time. I know we're
already running late today. Thank you to my colleagues for all their questions
and all of the answers that we've received today.
CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. O'Hara.
MS. O'HARA: Thank you, Chair. Thank you to everyone for doing this
discussion, having this conversation about what happened on the 13th. It is
difficult in today's world to reach everyone. We were just having discussions
here. I don't have conventional TV. I just don't watch it anymore. So that
doesn't work for me. I fortunately got both alerts on my phone, the incoming and
the news that it was a false alert, but I didn't have my phone at the end of my arm.
It was on my charger in my office room. And I keep it silent because I'm always
in and out of meetings. So until I got called by my sister from the east coast, who
already knew it was a false alarm and asked why I wasn't in a shelterI'm like,
"What are you talking about?"
Anyway, so that was my morning, but I live a block from the siren, which didn't
go off So even if I had seen the text, that would have been my first reaction,
"Wait a minute, the siren didn't go off" But it is challenging in today's world.
We're in this transition, what is it, the percentage of millennials who no longer
have anything but a cell phone, and how many people don't have TV's in today's
world. I've got to admit, I don't have a working AM/FM radio. It's on my list
for the next time I go to the store, to get one.
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But these aren't things that we have in our homes anymore. These are just not the
traditional basket goods in today's world. So it's got to be challenging to figure
out how to get the message to everyone. People are driving in the car. So there's
all kinds of different scenarios out there and how do you get this information to
everyone in short order.
I was grateful for the presentation yesterday. It did make me add an AM/FM
radio to my shopping list, and it gave me some insights into how to make my
household safer. So I highly recommend that we get out there and do some
education on this matter. Someone had put up an old 1951 YouTube video called
Duck and Cover when people were responding in their outrage last Saturday. To
be honest, we haven't progressed all that far in how to deal with a nuclear threat.
So watching the video took me back to elementary school days, but still it was
kind of useful information still.
So we need to get back to having an awareness in educating so that people know
how to react and react properly. Just saying, "Shelter in place," is not sufficient.
Not with the kind of shelters that we have, not with the kind of homes that we
have, et cetera. So there does need to be more education out there, and I wish
Civil Defense the best in working out the messaging, because that is challenging
in today's world. Thank you all for being here.
CHR. RUGGLES: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Is there anyone else wishing to
comment? Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for this second opportunity. I'm
actually hoping—Chris Leonard is in the Council Chambers, and if I could call
him forward?
(Note: At this time, Chris Leonard, New West Broadcasting President and
General Manager, came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Leonard. Mr. Leonard owns a radio station in
Hilo, and I just thought it would be real interesting for this Council to understand
from a subject matter expert on how the emergency alert system works through
our radio waves. So Mr. Leonard, if you don't mind taking a few minutes
walking us through that Saturday from your perspective, and your professional
commitment to getting information out on our radio station.
MR. LEONARD: Sure, I would tell you that on Saturday, I received a wireless
alert like many did. The wireless alert was issued at the same time as an
emergency alert system alert was sent out which aired on all five of our radio
stations, and I believe on every radio station on the island as well as television
across the State and cable systems. The alert was about two minutes in length.
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January 23, 2018
Part of the challenge in the system well first and foremost let me say the
technology worked as it was designed. The emergency officials were able to push
the alert out. There were obviously a handful of issues. Certainly as a
broadcaster our assumption is that when Emergency Management pushes that
message out the message is thoroughly vetted and authenticated before it gets to
us, and then the assumption is from Emergency Management's perspective once it
is sent through that system that it will air as is detailed in the State's plan which is
approved by the FCC (Federal Communications Commission).
There was no real contingency in that plan for what happens if an error is made,
how do we push a secondary alert, there are some limitations of the equipment
and how it operates and how it handles a secondary alert. When they did finally
issue the secondary alert, when the State issued the secondary alert 38 minutes
later, it was issued with a different header code which is what allowed that to push
through.
That being said, I will say that our County has obviously been very proactive. We
were in contact with the County EOC inside of about 15 minutes of the initial
alert. We took a phone call from Mayor Kim at the EOC indicating it was a false
alert, so at about 24 minutes after the hour, we had given the all clear, which was
still quite a bit ahead of the all clear that was issued by the State.
I think the challenge in the system right now is that the equipment is set up to do
the work. The equipment is set up for emergency managers whether at the State
level or even at the County level to issue the alert and have access to all of the
radio stations on this island. Statewide to radio, television, cable and wireless as
well. They didn't go back to that system as quick as they could have, and some of
those things obviously were technical. I think some of those were also procedural
because this was a scenario that had not been fully anticipated.
I had the opportunity last week, I flew to Washington D.C. on Wednesday night
and met with the FCC Chairman on Thursday, and talked to him about some of
the limitations of the equipment and some of the things that actually addressed
some of these issues. The State Emergency Communications Committee also met
on Thursday, which I believe the County was—well I know the County was a part
of, and addressing some of the issues in our State plan. The State plan that we
have was written in 2003, was updated again in 2005 and 2006, but has not been
updated since and there are a number of issues in the State plan that do need to be
addressed. As a representative of the broadcast industry as the Hawaii
Association of Broadcasters President, playing a pretty active role in making sure
that those details get updated, allow us as broadcasters to be in compliance, but
first and foremost making sure that the system is actually set up to properly work
and that everybody is on the same page from the State to the County to the
broadcast community as well.
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January 23, 2018
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Leonard. Mr. Rapoza, if you're still listening in,
this is where the stakeholders kind of would be ideal, as Mr. Leonard said, them
as broadcasters have a duty and a responsibility to get out accurate information, so
if we could also have our broadcast systems at the stakeholders table, that would
be my suggestion, very strong suggestion. I yield at this time. Thank you.
MR. RAPOZA: Yeah, this is Richard Rapoza, I'm still on the line. We are
working closely with the State Emergency Communications Committee to go
back and re-examine the Emergency Alert System to make sure it's operating
properly and to make sure that everybody is ready for future alerts.
CHR. RUGGLES: Is there anyone else wishing to comment? Oh, go ahead,
Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, I just wanted to ask Civil Defense, I know that we
had some pamphlets, or even a pamphlet that looked like "Two Weeks Ready,"
and it gave a list of things that we need to get to put in containers or bags or
whatever it is to be two week ready. If I could have some of those brochures, I
would love to carry them around to my car, because I attend a lot of community
meetings. I would love to have, you know, put some stuff out on a table for
people to be able to gather too. Because I know it will take a lot of effort to get to
community meetings or create one and not everybody will come, but if I can go to
the community meetings that are already existing throughout my district, I would
love to have information to be able to offer them, if that's okay. And if I need to
reprint, I don't mind using some of my funds to help print things for my district.
Mr. Magno, if you're still there, our Administrator?
MR. MAGNO: Hi, this is Administrator Magno. Yes, we've got some supply in
our office and maybe Mr. Rapoza can expedite sending more down to our Hilo
office as well. Then we can get them out to the Council Members.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, Mr. Rapoza?
MR. RAPOZA: Okay, we will do that. Yes, we will take care of that. We'll
send some right over.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, thank you. Yeah, if you could do that as soon as
possible, that would be wonderful. Can we—what is your contact number for us
to be able to reach you?
MR. RAPOZA: You can call me at—hang on I'm new here, I still don't know
my phone number. 808-733-4300, extension 522.
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January 23, 2018
MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you. Thank you so much for that information.
Okay, I'll yield at this time, Madam Chair.
CHR. RUGGLES: Is there anyone else wishing to speak? Go ahead,
Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Just a quick follow-up. Mr. Rapoza, I
heard you say you were going to be going back and looking at the whole
emergency broadcast system, and am I gathering or understanding that the intent
with the sirens that ties into the broadcast over the radio and television, is that
going to also be tied into the cell phones so everything gets triggered at once so
we have a unified notification rather than this stutter -step, or is that going to be
reviewed? Is that what's going to be coming forward?
MR. RAPOZA: Well, the way it actually works now is the alert that went out on
Saturday was the EAS/WEA (Emergency Alert System/Wireless Emergency
Alert) alert. So that's all the wireless going out to the broadcasters and also to the
cell phones. That's actually separate from the sirens. Another person triggers the
sirens through a separate system. That's why on that day we didn't have any
sirens, because they were never triggered. The way it would work is both of them
would be triggered at the same time. If there was an actual emergency, both of
them get triggered at the same time and you should have both of them
simultaneously.
The challenge we're facing is we've never had a chance to test the Wireless
Emergency Alert System statewide. It's just not permitted by law. This was
basically a test of that and we found some faults in it. We're working with cell
providers to identify what those issues are. Also with respect to the Emergency
Alert System, which is the system that goes to radio and TV, we're learning that
some broadcasters, they're systems were not configured properly. So we're
identifying the issues there and working back with broadcasters to make sure that
the system works right from end to end.
So to answer your question, yes it's being set up so everything will work
simultaneously. It's been a good test and we're using this as a teaching moment.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, so I'm glad to hear that, and you did get your test.
Unfortunate situation that triggered it, but at least we can learn from this. One
final thing, Mr. Rapoza, what is your official title?
MR. RAPOZA: I am the Public Information Officer for Hawaii Emergency
Management Agency.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. I yield. Thank you.
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January 23, 2018
CHR. RUGGLES: Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: It goes without saying that it was a very unfortunate situation a
few Saturdays ago, and the emotions that were running range from horror to
resignation. I can think of no better time to use that old saying "live and learn,"
right? You know, it was definitely a system error, okay, the way they came up
and formulated the system. But let's be honest. All of their energies were
focused on responding to an attack. If you would have put all nine of us in that
room to figure out a system, how many of us would have said, "What if
somebody presses the wrong button on the alert?" I don't think too much energy
was put into that, and you cannot really blame them, right?
So I mean really, again, live and learn. A lot has come up from this, you know, a
lot of it negative, but hopefully there's a lot of positive that comes out of this. But
when you look at the bigger picture now, you know, a few months ago we passed
that resolution, right, asking for a diplomatic solution or efforts to this North
Korean situation. I think more than ever, we should really be trying to emphasize
that. I know some of us, we're made fun of because of that resolution because
nobody's going to really listen to us right now; Trump or Kim Jong -un.
But I think we really should be trying to go in that direction, because it's just too
much at risk I think. We're looking at the end of the world quite frankly. One
missile comes, that's it. We've lowered the threshold for the use of nuclear arms,
and we're finished. The Earth is finished. So I think in that sense, we shouldn't
really be worried too much if one comes our way, because it's going to spell the
end of our world anyway. Sorry for that kind of sobering message, but that's how
I look at it. Thank you.
CHR. RUGGLES: Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, great. Well, with that, I
want to thank Mr. Magno, Chris, Mr. Ferreira, and Mr. Rapoza, for having this
discussion with us. I do have a couple of questions and comments from
constituents that I wanted to bring up.
One is there was one instance a few minutes a few minutes after the false alarm
notification went out that I guess in Hilo by Wiki Fresh there was a cell phone
trap in which police officers were handing out cell phone tickets to people that
were on their cell phones just speaking with loved ones and telling them that
they're okay. Did you want to comment on this, Mr. Ferreira?
CHIEF FERREIRA: I'm not aware of any specific enforcement that was going
on at that time, so I would have to follow-up on it. I'd be quite surprised if it was
going on.
CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, thank you. I guess as aI was one of those that didn't
receive the cell phone notification. I didn't know until a family member had
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called me. I think that this false alarm was very revealing and I agree with my
colleagues that live and learn, that this is a good learning experience. First of all,
I contemplated my role as a citizen, I contemplated my role elected official,
saying that I still don't know why I didn't receive a cell phone alert. I'm
assuming just from the discussion that the answer to that was simply that most of
you don't know why we didn't receive a cell phone alert. So I think it's good that
we can look into this now.
As a citizen knowing that the question came up, "Can I count on the
government?" "Can I count on Civil Defense?" Personally for me, I couldn't.
So let it be a lesson that we all need to take our safety into our own hands and to
educate ourselves on emergency preparedness. With that in mind, do we actually
have—the County i offering three CERT (Community Emergency Response
Team) trainings coming up in January, which is community emergency response
trainings. It's going to start January 4th, every Saturday for four Saturdays. This
is free. It's posted on my Facebook page if you're interested.
Like I said, it's revealed our lack of preparedness as a County and as a wake-up
call for myself as an elected official and resident, that this creates an opportunity
for us to have this discussion that brought to light the disconnections and
communication that we needed to protect health and safety. Now let's get a plan.
Not just for the County, but also as a resident, that we should all have a plan.
I also just want to state that one question that we need to ask, and this is not
something as a County official I have authority over, why do we allow such a
massive expanding military presence to begin with? That could be why we're a
global target. We should be looking and joining the movement to become a
nuclear free Pacific.
So with that, I will close Communication 702 and I really appreciate the robust
discussion and everyone who came out and participated.
Vote on Comm. 702: The motion to close file on Comm. 702 was carried by the
Filed following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards,
and Chair Ruggles - 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. RUGGLES: Motion carries.
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January 23, 2018
Return to Order Chair Ruggles directed the Committee to return to the order of business.
of Business:
Comm. 697: REQUESTS TO ADDRESS AND BRIEF THE COUNCIL ON THE DRAFT
TRANSIT MASTER PLAN
From Mass Transit Agency Acting Administrator Tiffany Kai, dated January 4,
2018.
; and
Comm. 697.1: ISLAND -WIDE TRANSIT MASTER PLAN
From Mass Transit Agency Acting Administrator Tiffany Kai, dated January 3,
2018, transmitting a copy of Task 3.0: Report on Public Input Received During
2017 Outreach Period, prepared by SSFM International, Inc.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 697. Seconded
by Mr. Richards.
Recess: At 11:12 a.m., Chair Ruggles called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:20 a.m.
(Note: At this time, Cheryl Soon of SSFM International and Linda
Frysztacki of Weslin Consulting Services came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
CHR. RUGGLES: Thank you for joining us. So we have a presentation to
debrief us on an update to the Mass Transit Master Plan. This is SSFM
International, who's been consulted by the County to help us design the next
20 years of our Mass Transit System for our County. Go ahead, Ms. Cheryl Soon.
MS. SOON: Thank you very much, Council Member Ruggles. It's a delight to
be with you today, and we are officially unveiling today the draft master plan.
When we last saw you in September, we were presenting service improvement
recommendations and we were about launch into a series of public meetings, and
I would like to thank you all for your assistance in helping to spread the word
about those public meetings.
The report of the public meetings as well as a survey that was taken in the Ka`u
District has been formalize into a report and was sent to you a couple of weeks
ago by Tiffany Kai. I believe Tiffany may be over in Hilo. I did get a message
from her that she would be in Hilo.
But this is what we've been pointing towards. How does it all hang together?
How does the mass transit system, how can it work? How does it work in the
context of a broader multi -modal transportation system? How does it work with
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the development plans? How does it work within the County government and
within the revenue structure of the County government?
So I'm going to be covering all of those topics because they inter -relate with each
other. At the end, I will give you some very strong messages from the amount of
time that we have been spending looking at this system. I'm going to start with a
strong message. Your transit system is in dire straits. I can't say it any more
bluntly. It is not in a good place. You have lost ridership, you have reports such
as you had the testifier before, it's no secret to you. Your busses are broken
down. You don't have size bus system that you had even two years ago. You
should be operating, and with our recommendations, with over 50 busses. You
now have 19 busses. Seven of those 19 are the seven that Honolulu sent over
because they had retired them out of their system.
Okay good, they did that, you get a couple more years from them, but if you're
going to continue having a transit system, and I know you all want that and I
know the community wants that, you're hanging by a thread, and you have to
make the decisions of how you're going to pull it back together, or maybe you
abandon having that as a public service on this island. It's that serious, and I'm
sorry to be so blunt. But I think that's what you're paying me to tell you.
So you'll see what we have done here is we didn't just go to "la -la land," and say,
"Oh, wouldn't it be nice to have all this service?" We tried to give you a logical
staging process. You couldn't have in July of next year say, oh, all of the sudden
we're going to have all these new routes and they're going to be going all day
long and Sundays and weekends, and still have 19 busses. You are wasting
money, quite frankly, by buying busses every day from the private tour operators.
It's waste of your money. Let's invest that money. I think you can get there, and
I think we have laid out a plan, including a financial plan and structure, for you to
get there.
(Note: At this time, Ms. Soon proceeded to provide a PowerPoint
presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the
presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the
Clerk's Office. A hard copy of the presentation is made a part of the
record. See Comm. 697.2.)
MS. SOON: So with that set of messages, about equipment, personnel, and
revenues, I'll end my presentation and thank you for your attention.
CHR. RUGGLES: Thank you, Ms. Soon. Are there any questions or comments?
Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Hi Cheryl.
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MS. SOON: Nice to see you, Aaron.
MR. CHUNG: You know, you talked about building up our staffing. Did you
factor that into these operational costs?
MS. SOON: Yes.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Having said that, then you know, you started your talk
nicely, and you then apologized for being blunt, right? But I don't look at it as
blunt, quite frankly. I really look at it as being honest. And honest in this regard,
I think everyone on this panel will agree that your assessment comports with our
views of what the present situation at the Mass Transit Department, and going
forward. I really think, in my estimation, this is a marvelous plan.
MS. SOON: Thank you.
MR. CHUNG: If I could say, you know, $500,000 we pay for this, it's money
well spent. Of course you often hear people saying that no one ever designed the
perfect house, you know, when they're building houses, and it never comes out
perfect, but it's going to be a work in progress. So having said that though,
Cheryl, when does your contract end?
MS. SOON: June.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Now we have a new person coming on board, and
administrator, and I'm sure you guys are probably working with—
MS. SOON: We have not worked with her, because we didn't think that was
appropriate, but Tiffany has been in touch, keeping her posted.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, well at some point, I guess you guys are going to have to
start working with her. I'm just wondering though, because I'm really
encouraged by what you guys have presented, if it's possible or advisable for you
guys town an extended contract of course, we're going to pay you guys more
but to stay on longer. For a year or two, just to make sure that this thing gets
implemented correctly. Because I'm really worried about the implementation and
follow-through. Is that a possibility or do you think it's worthwhile to do that?
MS. SOON: We would certainly be open and willing to do that if that's the new
administrator and the County's desire. It's going to take the new administrator
time to get up to speed, we know that. But I think I can speak for both Linda and
myself, when you work so much on a thing like this, you get pretty dedicated and
committed to it, and we share the thought that we want to see a successful system.
Because it's within your grasp.
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MR. CHUNG: Because this plan is very comprehensive. I mean, you've looked
at all angles including revenue generating mechanisms, which I understand from
reading the paper and all over the weekend, that something's going to be coming
up as well. You talked about getting smaller buses, I think that's really
encouraging. I think many of us have said before that we're kind of troubled by
our bus routes being driven, no pun intended, by the hardware instead of being
driven the need. That you could use a smaller fleet to accomplish those ends.
I think you covered everything, and this carries with it a lot of promise, Cheryl.
I'm just so glad that you guys—
MS. SOON: It's a hope there's a lot of hope in here, and maybe another thing is
we have recommended that you not raise fares for a few years until you're back in
a good place. That you have that commitment to the people, "Stick with us, we're
getting there." They know. They know what you've been up against, and they're
pulling for you; they're pulling for themselves. They really are rooting for this to
happen.
MR. CHUNG: I can just sense the passion that you have regarding this. As you
said, now you've become personally invested in this. I really do want to make a
suggestion to the administration and to my colleagues, that you guys be able just
stay on for a little while longer. But thank you so much.
MS. SOON: Okay, thank you.
CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Cheryl, thank you. I think this is a
phenomenal plan. Echoing my colleague, Mr. Chung, it's comprehensive, very
well thought out, it gives us different scenarios, it gives us scenarios related to the
hardware along with the software, along with routes, in a systematic and well
thought out and meaningful way. I echo exactly what Mr. Chung is saying. I can
get behind you folks sticking around to ensure that this is implemented.
I do want to focus in on one section, Section 5, which is the fare collection piece.
Maybe not so much ask for comment—or maybe a comment, because I had
initiated an audit, and I was wondering if there was any consideration given to
folding that information in, which also would tie into your recommendation of a
fiscal officer. Would you mind expanding on that a little bit?
MS. SOON: Of course. We didn't have the results of any audit on fare
collection. From my own experience in Honolulu, fares have feet. There's
leakage in the system and you need cross checks. A reasonable fare collection
system is one of those important checks. You don't want to create a situation
when it's tempting to someone to cheat the system because it's so easy. Having
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said that though, fare collection systems in my experience are expensive, and you
want to sort through them carefully. Having said that, I'm a little leery because
I'm not sure howI think Linda feels more strongly about this than I do.
Honolulu is going into a new fare system with smart cards as a part of their
integration with their rail system. It's probably possible for you to piggy -back on
to that. It's a better way to go. Smart cards is a better way to go. You know,
right now, you have coins, you have magnetic stripes, you have different things,
but smart card is a good way to do it, because it stores cash into the card.
Linda can perhaps add to this, but I think it's just a matter of how much you want
to spend on the fare collection system versus on improving bus stops and buying
more busses. So Linda had it early in the plan and I didn't appreciate that,
because I just didn't it was the first thing I would jump to. But Linda, go ahead
and make you pitch.
MS. FRYSZTACKL Well, I do agree with Cheryl, it needed to be pushed later to
the plan because there are so many priorities that need to be done up front. And
Honolulu has not implanted their para -system yet. So you want several years of
experience to make sure that is the desirable approach.
Honolulu, their grand plan I think is to have all the systems in the state be
compatible. So you have your smart card, you go to Honolulu, you can get on the
bus or rail there. Or Kauai, or here. So I think that's down the road. But yeah, I
do agree, postponing till a little later in the system is a good idea.
MS. SOON: And it eventually becomes a feature that when you purchase the bus,
you purchase the fare cards that you're going to use for that bus.
MS. FRYSZTACKL Yeah, I'm going to pitch it a little bit more in the fact that if
the bike share is expanded and all the other systems, they can all trade off with the
same card. So it's not like shared card, van pool card, or bus card, it can all be off
the same parking systems can come out of the same card. So it's an easy
system, once it's proven.
MS. LEE LOY: On page 101, the Table 6-11, the Financial Plan by Fiscal Year
with Excise Tax Surcharge. When I'm reading that chart, that's done with the
assumption that the half percent GE is adopted.
MS. SOON: Correct.
MS. LEE LOY: So if I'm reading this chart correctly, by 2027, we will have a
fund balance carry over of $65 million?
MS. SOON: Yes, that's correct.
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MS. LEE LOY: And still have adopted the two new positions, all the new routes,
the smaller busses, and the big capital improvement of a
MS. SOON: Kona baseyard.
MS. LEE LOY: A Kona baseyard.
MS. SOON: Yes.
MS. LEE LOY: A $65 million carry over. This is just commentary. I would
push the fare collection piece further down, because at this rate it looks like we
can keep it free. So why would we have to collect?
MS. SOON: Oh, you're saying don't charge for the bus at all? Well you know,
I've done debates on that and I'm not a fan of that. It's a service you provide and
I think people should pay for it. Whether you charge them a dollar or fifty cents
or two dollars, that's judgement you make. But I'm not in favor of it being fare
free.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. On you Table, I guess it was 92, Operating Costs by
Fiscal Year, I just wanted to clarify the Operating Cost by Fiscal Year 2018. You
have totals of $9,861,000 I'm assuming. If you could just help me clarify,
because we all know on this Council we are subsidizing Mass Transit $14 million.
So when I saw that number, I went "Something's wrong."
MS. FRYSZTACKL This does include what it would cost to operate your current
routes properly with your own busses. Right now what you're expending
temporarily is renting busses. They can be $1,000 a day per bus. So that's why
your budget has kind of fluctuated. This does not include that amount because it
wouldn't show what the new services would actually mean, if that makes—if
that's clear, I'm not sure.
MS. LEE LOY: So that would be the offset, right? The three, $3-$3.5 million
that we're paying another vendor to rent their busses?
MS. POINDEXTER: To rent their busses, that's correct.
MS. LEE LOY: Then when I go back to the financial plan with—
MS. SOON: The combined one?
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, the combined, that just vaporizes. We're no longer
renting busses?
MS. FRYSZTACKL Correct. This—
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CHR. RUGGLES: Excuse me. Sorry Linda. We got a request from Hilo that
when you speak if you could move a little closer to the mic so we can hear what
you're saying.
MS. FRYSZTACKL I'll pull it closer. There we go. That's correct. We've
accelerated the bus purchasing program so you would actually be able to drop off
the renting of busses. Then it's completely your system.
MS. LEE LOY: I just have one other question. I was looking for it in the
appendices, you know, you've identified the routes and systematically marched
them through, which, you know, Puna, Ka`u, which one goes first. I was just
wondering if we had any data to drive why that systematic routes were being put
in to place. Do we know the ridership now? I know there's an express line based
on the workers being shuttled to Waikoloa. Do we have that?
MS. SOON: Your ridership numbers now by individual route are very weak.
Your combined totals, which get reported to FTA (Federal Transit Authority), are
stronger, but your route -by -route is weak. That's hopefully something that will be
improved with time.
So we're making best judgements and that's why in some instances we're
recommending starting a route two days a week, to see how it builds up. Now
that doesn't help a commuter, you know, so it's not a full test. In other cases,
we're what we call "deviating" off the route to pick up passengers who aren't
directly on the route. But we've recommended three or four ways of testing
increased ridership. One of the issues that gets involved with a new route is how
long do you test it for. So if we're going to try a new route between Hilo and
Kona, do we try it for six weeks, six months, two years? And generally you want
to have at least a year because it takes time for the word to get out that it exists,
that it's dependable. A lot of this happens word of mouth. It's not just totally
MTA (Mass Transit Agency) advertising it, so we'd recommend that. In some
cases it's two years, in some cases a year to try out these new things and then
expand them further.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I just have one question. I know my time ran
out, but if I could have just one more question?
CHR. RUGGLES: Yeah, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Was any consideration given to doing an express line to the
Kona Airport? The backdrop to that is I sat in on a number of meetings with
Hawaii Visitors' Bureau, and we're seeing a number of international flights
going out of Kona or to the states, and some of the data coming back from the
airlines is people from Hilo would rather fly to Honolulu or Maui and then catch
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the connector, when we have routes right out of Kona. Was any consideration
given to providing an express to the airport?
MS. SOON: Yeah, that's another one that Linda and I debated and perhaps had
different perspectives on. I felt that on the basis of a lot of strong testimony at the
Kona meeting who told us that the majority of jobs that are being created are in
Kona, but the majority of applicants are from the Hilo side and that both for job
interviews and for actual performance of the job you needed a direct. The
deviation if you will to the airport just added time. But we did increase Kona
Airport service, and I guess it's something that could still be considered. The
question is how many times a day, what would the ridership truly be. Everybody
on that international flight is not going to take the bus. Maybe a much small
proportion of them are. But Linda, you might want toI know you were looking
at wanting to do that.
MS. FRYSZTACKL Correct. We also added in what the circulators connecting
at the Kona Airport. That express line that Cheryl talked about earlier. The blue
line would go to the transit center and then connect up to two routes serving Kona
Airport which would run until 9:00 p.m. So there are ways to do that service. We
also added a couple of other trips into the airport coming down from North
Kohala and Waimea. So we're focusing on how to get folks there.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. I yield.
MS. RUGGLES: Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, it's a great plan, no doubt. I mean, everybody
recognizes that. Now it's time to get it out to the public so that they can chime in,
because we know that the price tag is pretty big on this. With the recent
announcement in the paper about raising the GET tax for transportation, I've been
swamped with calls saying, "Hey." You know, are we going to ask the State
Legislature for a bailout, because Honolulu City and County did? So are we
doing the same since we already raised our property taxes and fuel taxes?
You know, so getting this out to the public is really important. Because then they
get to decide do they want to raise the GET tax for this or do we want to go to our
federal government? I mean last year there were funds for transportation that
nobody tapped into. So there's all these other resources as well.
So I'm glad that we're taking this and taking the time to go to the public, because
it's not something we just want to shove down their throat and say, "We're going
to do it, we're going to get funding for it, we've just got to get it done."
MS. SOON: Absolutely.
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MS. FRYSZTACKL Right.
MS. POINDEXTER: So I appreciate that, and I look forward to working with
you and working with my community to make sure that we can roll this out in a
way that they can decide if there is no federal funding would they mind putting
out money for it.
MS. SOON: Well it certainly provides information as what you get. If you raise
this money what you're getting for it rather than it going to some black hole.
MS. POINDEXTER: Right, and they may say, you know, is it the time to do it
now? I just need to hear from the public. So like I said, I think it's a great plan.
How we fund it and what the people's opinions are is what will determine how I
would move forward with this. But thank you so much for all the work.
MS. SOON: You're welcome.
MS. POINDEXTER: Great presentations at our communities. Great input. I see
the blue line, green line there. So what's his name in Waimea will be very happy.
MS. SOON: Yes. We borrowed his color but we didn't do exactly his lines.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, but his line, if you look at it
MS. SOON: The concepts were there.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, his concept was there and I think even his plan was
great. But you have incorporated a lot of those thoughts in there too. So thank
you. Thank you so very much.
MS. SOON: Thank you for your comments.
CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. O'Hara.
MS. O'HARA: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, ladies, for being here. Thank you
for working so closely with us. This is a terrific job. I've enjoyed learning from
all of you about the various nuances of Mass Transit.
I want to go back to what you were discussing with Ms. Lee Loy on Table 6-11,
which is the fiscal year with the excise tax surcharge added in, in the assumption
that the County of Hawaii should adopt that. The estimate that you have on an
annual basis is $25 million?
MS. SOON: Yes.
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MS. O'HARA: Can you explain where you got that?
MS. SOON: Well, we actually believe it could be as high as $40 (million). We
have actually heard $20 to $40 (million). So we decided to go with the low end. I
guess like anything it's who knows where it would actually be, but we just
decided to be conservative and see what would happen. It's not totally arbitrary,
it's within the range, but the choice of making it at the low end was to not over
promise.
MS. O'HARA: Thank you. The reason I wanted to get the basis of the projection
is that if that half percent increase is acted upon, it would be not only for Mass
Transit, it would be for all Highway Fund. So I don't know that all $25,000
would ever be committed. I know that Ms. Lee Loy remarked that this gives us a
surplus of $65 million after 10 years, but considering what is happening at the
federal level, this was brought up, the talk of the town is that the infrastructure
plan that we might see coming out of this administration is going to shift the cost
to local government, State and County. So far there's been discussion about
raising the federal fuel tax, but that hasn't gained traction. So that may end up
with more expenses on our shoulders for maintaining our highways, both State
and County. So I just want to point out that if that GE tax were to pass not all of
it is going to be allocated to Mass Transit. It would be impossible.
MS. SOON: Yes, and I withheld a comment waiting for Council Member
Ruggles, but particularly in the Puna District, your district and hers, to get the full
transit service that you want for your constituents and that they want for
themselves, is going to take some roadway improvements. You and I had the
benefit of having that discussion, similar to when we thought that the lava was
going to flow over Highway 130, you had to go in and essentially improve some
roads for them to be used.
I know Council Member Ruggles and yourself have been working with that Puna
Community Development Plan Action Committee to come up with the roadway
plan. So syncing these two would be a big thing, and I'm hopeful—Council
Member Ruggles was kind enough to give me some additional ideas that we
didn't have in this by using the improved roads. It is a very nice piece of work
that I'd like to integrate into the next version of the plan. But you're right, it
allows for both. I mean, it's kind of like, great.
MS. O'HARA: Taking that to the individual subdivisions, for instance the
additional windfall we got in the federal grant of $416,000 and what it's going to
be used on is, one of the things is to extend the route that's going into Hawaiian
Paradise Park past 16th down to 1 sf and across. It's only at this point paved
between Paradise and Maku`u. So I went to their board meeting a few nights ago,
didn't get to do any speaking because they seemed to get very caught up in
adopting minutes and that took over two hours. So anyway, I was hoping to
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impress upon them that as they select their roadways for paving that they take into
consideration the fact that we can provide better service. So it would be good for
them to strategize where to spend their money first, and consider the possibility of
Mass Transit.
MS. SOON: Well said, very good.
MS. O'HARA: So that is, you know, other things that are happening in our area.
I don't know, and I don't know if you guys know when that new route will go into
effect. I tried to call Tiffany and couldn't get ahold of her, so I don't know when
we're planning to bring the bus down to Pt. Don't know? Okay. I'll have to get
ahold of Tiffany on that.
I do want to ask, what percentage of ridership currently, and I know we've lost
ridership, is students, people carrying student ID's? What percentage is seniors?
Do you have that broken down that way?
MS. SOON: We don't have it from the ridership numbers, but we had a
breakdown in the survey, when we did the passenger survey, that we can get to
you. I don't have it in my head, but the student's was not small. It was like 20
percent.
MS. FRYSZTACKL The student's was closer to 25 to 30 percent.
MS. O'HARA: Okay, and seniors you're not sure?
MS. FRYSZTACKL I would say 20 percent. That's a guess.
MS. O'HARA: So about 50 percent would be in those two classes maybe?
MS. SOON: Yes.
MS. FRYSZTACKL Yes.
MS. O'HARA: Because when we're talking about bus fares, those are
particularly vulnerable populations, and they may need extra consideration.
MS. SOON: Yeah, and they do have price reductions, both categories.
MS. O'HARA: Thank you. I'll yield.
MS. SOON: Thank you.
CHR. RUGGLES: Is there anyone else wishing to discuss? Go ahead,
Mr. Richards.
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MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. A couple of questions. Any time numbers
come up I have to ask questions. You talked about supporting free ridership and
actually charging for a fare. Looking at your numbers, roughly speaking about a
dollar a ride, is that what I'm looking at here?
MS. SOON: Well, we didn't change the fare that you have now.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, so it's just accepting the one that we have, right?
MS. SOON: Yes.
MR. RICHARDS: Then coming back on to what Council Woman Lee Loy and
O'Hara were talking about with our GE tax, I'm sure you ran the metric if you
just move that completely?
MS. SOON: If we don't use the GET, then you go to Table 6-10. We weren't
only doing it with the GET, we were almost like curious to see what would
happen if you did the GET, but your basic combine capital/operating plan is in
6-10, and it assumes the sources that you have now, that it's coming from the
General Fund and the Highway Fund.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thanks, I yield.
MS. RUGGLES: Anyone else? Mr. Kanuha.
MR. KANUHA: Thank you. I'm not going to repeat too much about what
everybody else said. Again, mahalo for the plan; mahalo for letting us know what
we're capable of providing for our constituents into the future. I just said in the
beginning, the state of basically emergency this mass transit system is in is not
only unacceptable to us, but unacceptable to the entire public. So what do we do
from now?
As stated, you know, you see the financial plans. I mean we're obviously worried
about where the money is going to come from to pay for this, but we also want to
know if it's going to be managed properly, as was brought up previously. If we
continue down the road that we're taking in how it's currently managed, it's not
going to work. It has to be managed way more effectively. Of course with these
additional positions, you know, additional positions cost more money. This last
budget I wasn't too fond of adding additional positions especially if we're raising
property taxes. That was just my whole thing.
But I am glad that you guys did add the GET portion of them. It's something that
we've been trying to deal with for several years now in if we are going to
implement it, what are we going to get out of it. For this, you know—and I'm not
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going to say whether I'm in favor of it or not, but it gives us an idea of what is
capable of basically producing a great transit system for Hawaii Island. You
look at the demographics of the ridership, you know, who is that? Who are our
riders? Who are the people that need the service the most?
This is an option to not only createI mean, we know that Puna needs help.
These rural communities need the most help in getting people to where they need
to go. I'm really trying to figure out how to pay for that. GET, you know, you'd
have everybody paying fortourists, every single individual. If you subsidize
this with just the General Fund or Highway, you know, General Fund you're
getting it out of the property owners.
MS. SOON: Correct.
MR. KANUHA: Am I willing to raise taxes on my community again to subsidize
for every place else? I don't know. It's something that I'm going to have to deal
with later on. You know, if I have to raise taxes to pay for this thing, you know, I
want to be sure as hell to make sure that my community, that's paying the most
property tax is going to be getting a hell of a good system.
MS. SOON: Can I just comment on that one point? When we built the plan, we
knew you didn't have all the money in the world. So we were perhaps even being
conservative in what we offered. I guess it came as a surprise to us what the yield
was on the GET. You could do more. You know, at some point in time you want
to say, okay, what's the system we want to have. But at a minimum, you would
get all those capital things taken care of. So you have the whole infrastructure for
the system, then if you're back with the General Fund for operations, it's at 2014
levels. You know, some previous, you know, level. I'm not sure if I know how
long the GET lasts for. In Honolulu it does sunset at a certain point, so—but the
question is, you kind of have a window of time in which to restore, rebuild and
integrate a transit system into the community in a meaningful way.
MR. KANUHA: So just real quick. I know you said you were going to take this
out to the community. And the community has until when to respond, or you start
the community meetings?
MS. SOON: Yeah, we'll start the community meetings in April.
MR. KANUHA: By that time, the GET will already have sunsetted for the
counties to implement?
MS. SOON: Yeah.
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MR. KANUHA: I'm not saying, you know, we should implement it, I'm just
saying that's the timeline that we're given by the state. Really, I can't trust that
the fells are going to give us funds.
MS. SOON: You could get less than you've been getting.
MR. KANUHA: Yeah. That's a very real possibility.
MS. SOON: We're all worried about that in the industry, quite frankly.
MR. KANUHA: You know, I have no idea where to go from here. Thank you
for the plan. We needed a plan forever, and we finally have something that we
can work with. I definitely want to hear from the community with regards to their
input on a lot of this. You said earlier that this plan was given to us a couple of
weeks ago, but I've never
MS. SOON: No, no. Today. This is its unveiling.
MR. KANUHA: Oh.
MS. SOON: Two weeks ago we gave you the results of the public meeting.
MR. KANUHA: Yeah, oh okay.
MS. SOON: A different report.
MR. KANUHA: I never got that either.
MS. SOON: You didn't get that either? Oh, I'll make sure you get it.
MR. KANUHA: But we tried to follow-up, but I was also in Honolulu trying to
fight for more money. But that might be a lost cause as well.
MS. SOON: Okay.
MR. KANUHA: Anyway, thank you guys for this, and you know, my whole
thing is how we are going to pay for it. So I yield.
MS. SOON: Well that's the $64,000 question. $15 million question.
CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. Eof£
MS. EOFF: Thank you. I'm just going to be really brief because we're running
so late. But a question that keeps bothering me is that there was a message from
the Governor that he does not plan to use any STIP (State Transportation
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January 23, 2018
Improvement Program) for capacity building with roads. All in this next fiscal
year, the monies are only going to be used for maintenance, repairs, and things
like that. For us to really have a functioning bus system around this island, we're
going to need a lot of money for new roads and capacity roads.
So not that you have to answer that right now, it's just something that I'm
struggling with and I need to get more information. So I just wanted to put that
out there.
MS. SOON: We run into this on all islands.
CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. O'Hara.
MS. O'HARA: Just to take it in a little different direction, I had a couple of
questions I hadn't asked previously. In your slide on Puna at the bottom, you
have zone service one day a week along Highway 130 extended by days as
demand warrants. Is that paratransit, or is the word left out? What is "zone
service?"
MS. FRYSZTACKL Zone service is paratransit service.
MS. O'HARA: Okay, because in the next one it says, zone paratransit for
Highway 11. So maybe the word paratransit needs to be put in there. I just
okay.
MS. FRYSZTACKL Needs to be added back in.
MS. O'HARA: I just wanted to clarify that. Then my next question is, I know
we've discussed this already, the importance of getting hardware, buses, is so
critical to our service, that you didn't consider things like whether or not we
would assume the role of public bus drivers, meaning county employees versus
what we are currently doing, which is contract hire. Did you at all analyze that
financially in terms of what the impact might be if we were to go down that road?
MS. SOON: We did not do it from an analytical perspective. We did it from, I
guess the best I could say is professional knowledge, that where you are with
personnel now, to get to that is a huge gap. Let's get what you've got going now
right. The whole shift toyou know, Honolulu doesn't hire drivers. They have
OTS (O`ahu Transit Services) and the union do that. So no, we didn't analyze it
because I don't think either of us like to think we just believed it.
MS. O'HARA: Okay, so not really a recommendation.
MS. SOON: No.
MS. O'HARA: Okay, thank you.
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Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Ruggles relinquished the Chair to Vice Chair Eof£
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Are there any other comments? Ms. David
hasn't gone yet.
MS. DAVID: Mahalo, Chair. Thank you very much for that presentation. It just
really strikes me for you to put it into different graphs. One with the GET, one
without as status quo. My question or my concern is, in prior conversations with
this body I think we discussed somewhat the GET is a regressive tax that will hit,
you know, the most vulnerable in our community. So I'm sitting here wondering
how we are going to address the fact that if we raise the GET it will definitely
affect most of the ridership and also the people with a lot to lose, or can't afford
and increase.
MS. SOON: I was reluctant, and I did not want the presentation to come across
that I was here trying to pitch the GET.
MS. DAVID: I know, and I didn't realize that was going to be an option with—
MS. SOON: I just was trying to provide information, and the subject of it being
regressive, it's one of those few portions where you get tourists paying into it,
whereas you don't in the property taxes, as Councilman Kanuha pointed out. But
100 percent of the benefit comes to locals and in particular those most often using
transit service. So the benefits are anything but regressive. They're actually very
progressive. So I guess that's, to me, a consideration.
MS. DAVID: I guess that's the decision, right. I thank you for that. That's the
decision that we have here before us.
MS. SOON: Yeah, you have a hard decision.
MS. DAVID: There's no question that the things that you have brought out in
this report did not just happen overnight, and it's something that was neglected for
many, many, many years. Now we sit on this body having to make some really,
really hard decisions that will definitely impact our people in our community.
MS. SOON: So, I thank you for that. I'm not questioning your, you know, the
way you've put that forward, but I think we needed all the information in order
for us to actually try to decide this very hard issue. So thank you very much, and
a lot of food for thought moving forward.
MS. SOON: Well I certainly benefitted from several of you who approached me
after the last presentation I made and at the public meetings. I remember Council
Member Richards specifically saying, "Good Cheryl, but we need the numbers.
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We need to know the numbers." We knew that, but that was very clear that in
order to make decisions you had to know the numbers.
MS. DAVID: Exactly, and up until that point, and Mr. Richards' request was
very well thought out, because prior to this report we had nothing to go on except
what we thought in our minds, we're so deficient in the whole system. But to see
it in black and white is an eye opener and very helpful in us to try to see how we
can come to a decision that's fair and just for the people, for everybody.
MS. SOON: Thank you.
MS. DAVID: Thank you very much.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Eoff relinquished the Chair Ruggles.
CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, you're right. We didn't want to turn this into a GET
thing. Unfortunately because of the
MS. SOON: Pressing timing.
MS. POINDEXTER: what is coming before us, it's turned in to that. It's
definitely tied to this. When we talk about the people first, making sure that this
goes out to the people first, yet we're handcuffed when the Legislature is saying,
"I'm giving you a time limit on this." But it doesn't have to be a time limit,
because they have the ability to give us an extension. So we need to lobby for
that extension to be able to go out to our public and the people and let the people
decide what way we should go. Should we do the GET, should we go to the
federal government, look at other resources. Should we even have this grand plan
of a bus system or would they just be satisfied with what we have.
You know, so but that's the people's choice. So I'm hoping, and I'm going to
lobby hard to our State Legislators that they give us that extension. Not like when
they had that special session. But people didn't have that time. It was something
that was fast -tracked and people were very upset about that. So I'm so happy that
you're not fast -tracking this. So I appreciate it, great plan, I look forward to
working with the community on this. Thank you.
CHR. RUGGLES: Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Running through this, first of all I didn't
thank you for this, but this is really cool and I'm just trying to digest it. Quick
question, I know we have like 55 buses, half of them work.
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January 23, 2018
MS. SOON: No, right now you have 19 buses.
MR. RICHARDS: We just have 19; clean house.
MS. SOON: You have a lot of dead buses in the yard.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, I won't argue semantics with you on that one. My
point on this is you have those 19 busses working for another five years, roughly
speaking. Are they capable of doing that? Let me rephrase the question.
MS. SOON: I hope so.
MR. RICHARDS: If we were to put all the buses that are running in order, how
much is that going to cost to put those 19 into not have to worry about order?
And is that incorporated into this financial statement?
MS. SOON: Let's see how to answer that. I understand your question. Putting
aside that something could get in an accident, I think that the seven from
Honolulu are good for that period of time.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, that's down to 12.
MS. SOON: The question is what route you put them on. Some routes are harder
on a bus than others. So as you start acquiring new and bringing new ones on,
you want to put them on the longer haul routes and reserve the older buses for the
in -town routes. So in other words, you're going to have to manage your fleet.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, so what I'm hearing is that that's one of the iffy areas
because we're trying to stretch the life of those buses until we get the capital
investment coming through, correct?
MS. SOON: The smaller buses have an expected life of six years. Two of the 19
or of that size.
MR. RICHARDS: And the large buses, what's your life expectancy of those?
MS. SOON: About 12 years.
MR. RICHARDS: And looking at the age on those—okay.
MS. SOON: Age on them, yeah.
MR. RICHARDS: Alright, again, we're running out of time, so we'll talk about it
later.
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MS. SOON: It's a good question.
MR. RICHARDS: I appreciate it. Thank you. I'm going to yield in the interest
of time.
CHR. RUGGLES: Anyone else wishing to comment? Okay, great. So no one
else, it's my turn. Thank you for being here for so long, Cheryl, and giving us
really clear answers. We had the opportunity to provide you with our
recommendations around last week that we had drafted. We used constituent
input data and the County mandated plans, including the connectivity plan, the
community development plan, and emergency access routes. We outlined how
substandard roads, a lengthy drive to the hospital, lack of access to clean water
and sanitation, lack of access to emergency services, all impact the quality of life
for residents, making transportation a safety net that is critical to the wellbeing
and improving the quality of life, especially for people in Puna.
So it is my belief that this master plan creates an opportunity for us to incorporate
the infrastructure remedies that we need to address these issues in alignment with
all the plans that I just stated. So I really appreciate you including those routes
and those service expansions that we gave you.
Regarding the rest of this, seeing how we have just received this. We just
received this, this morning, so based on what I've been able to review, I really
appreciate how the goals are outlined. They're very clear and logical, starting
with the best of what we have, low-cost, efficient ways of serving. Serving
bicycles and pedestrians first, developing a working bus fleet from our current 19.
Six or seven new buses every year all the way up to 48 operating with 10 back up.
I think that's a great starting point.
And moving away from the contracts with tour companies, also within the Goal 1,
I think is very on point. Developing maintenance protocols and electronic record
keeping for all maintenance for buses, and doubling the amount of mechanics and
improving basic customer information from 5:00 a.m. to midnight. Those are all
within Goal 1, and that is great. I'm very impressed.
Are these goals meant to be chronological?
MS. SOON: No. What you described in the Goal 1, those are strategies. We had
a total of 35 strategies that we recommended under the five goals. So sometimes
when you purchase a bus, it's addressing several strategies. But the logic for why
you're doing it is imbedded in those strategies.
CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, so it's not meant to be one before the other?
MS. SOON: No.
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CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. Interesting. I had one recommendation in just reading
the goals. Under Goal 3, it says to mark bus stops with bus stop signs, to create
doing that. I personally think that should be under Goal 1, as it relates to creating
a more reliable transportation system. That's just my thoughts.
MS. SOON: Okay.
CHR. RUGGLES: I'm pretty sure how you mentioned, that you want all these
goals implemented in an equitable manner.
MS. SOON: Yes.
CHR. RUGGLES: With that, I have a question. Under Strategy 11, under
Goal 2, it says "Expand current paratransit in Kona and Hilo to three-quarter mile
and add to other areas of the island starting with Puna." Could you explain more
what that means?
MS. SOON: Well right now, you have paratransit service. You've only hit it for
a year, and you only have it in Kona and Hilo. It's probably working a little more
strongly in Kona. Probably because Hilo has the taxi voucher program and
people opting for that over the paratransit. So we're saying expand the service
areas in those two areas because it's already operating well, and to start a
paratransit service in Puna.
CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. Would that be three-quarter mile? What does that
mean, "two three-quarter mile?"
MS. SOON: You could probably describe it better, but right now, the allowable
paratransit service, and this is by federal law, is within—it's meant—when you
have a fixed -route service, you have to have a comparable paratransit service
along that route. But we're asking for it to be expanded beyond the route by
three-quarters of a mile. You maybe can find better words for that than I can.
MS. FRYSZTACKL Yeah, the paratransit service in both Hilo and Kona is
complementary service to the fixed routes, the intra -Kona, intra -Hilo routes. So
the current service is designed to pick up curb -to -curb sometimes door-to-door if
needed eligible passengers within a three-quarter—or actually in Kona and Hilo
it's a one -mile corridor on either side of the fixed -route system. So they take
reservations to pick folks up within that corridor. That is by FTA regulations that
you have to provide the service.
Now for Puna, the FTA regulations is three-quarter mile. Kona and Hilo by
agreement with the FTA, Federal Transit Administration, they agreed to serve
within a mile of that fixed -route line. So they deviate off to pick folks up.
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CHR. RUGGLES: I see. Thank you. Does the federal government provide extra
funding for that service?
MS. SOON: No.
CHR. RUGGLES: So it's sort of an un -funded mandate that we implement?
MS. SOON: That's correct.
CHR. RUGGLES: Thank you. So this would mean that the paratransit would be
available everywhere three-quarter mile off of a fixed route?
MS. SOON: Correct.
CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, great.
MS. FRYSZTACKL And as you have more fixed routes, you're covering more
areas.
CHR. RUGGLES: Right. And how does a route become a fixed route?
MS. SOON: When it transfers from being a commuter service. Commuter
services are not required to have parallel paratransit. When it shifts to going
beyond commuter. So all day long service.
CHR. RUGGLES: So a service that rotates?
MS. SOON: No, a service that is running from 7:00 in the morning or 6:00 in the
morning until 9:00 at night all day long, rather than out in the morning, back in
the afternoon.
CHR. RUGGLES: Okay. I see, thank you.
MS. SOON: That's where it's sort of a delicate balance. When do you have
enough ridership to do that? Because you don't want it to just be running all day
long empty. So it's always testing out the ridership to get to the point where it
justifies the expenses. A new route more or less will be about half a million
dollars in operating costs.
CHR. RUGGLES: I see. Thank you. I really appreciate your emphasis on hiring
a fiscal manager as well.
MS. SOON: Yes.
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January 23, 2018
CHR. RUGGLES: For research, data and grants; to take care of our records. I
think that is number one. In terms of technology, have you looked into Google
Transit?
MS. SOON: Yes. We have a section in the report on Google Transit and have
recommended that until the County—the County wants to get its—MTA wants to
get its own app, but until they do that they should sign up for a Google app.
CHR. RUGGLES: Yeah, great. Thank you. Yeah, it's free and it's being used in
a lot of different counties.
MS. SOON: It's free, but there are data points that they aren't currently
collecting that they'd have to. We'd have toyou know, and we have those
recommendations about how to number the bus stops, how to number the roads so
that you can get it into even the Google app environment.
CHR. RUGGLES: I have a revised recommendation plan I'm about to give you.
I actually have nine other technologies that we've researched that I'm sure you're
aware of, including the electronic fare payment technologies. Have you looked at
the Expanding Transportation Opportunities in Hawaii document that was
prepared by the Kohala Center?
MS. SOON: Yeah. I think you reviewed in the beginning. That is focused on the
social services. Improvement for social services and using alternate—or using
social services agencies to support the transit system?
CHR. RUGGLES: No. Actually, we just sent it to you last week.
MS. SOON: Oh.
CHR. RUGGLES: It's about an 80 page really comprehensive document where
they give examples of what other counties have done successfully and apply it to
our unique circumstances here on the Big Island.
MS. SOON: I'm not sure I have seen it, so I look forward to reading that.
MS. RUGGLES: Yeah, they list all of these different technologies that could be
applied here and how they could be applied. I listed all of those within our
recommendation as well.
MS. SOON: Okay, thank you. That's great.
CHR. RUGGLES: Is there any timeline associated with the goals in this report.
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MS. SOON: No. Well, what we're recommending is that you take the first
10 years to get up to fully running the system the way you want it to, and that the
expansion to things like the Kona transit center follow at the end of that period,
and move on. So the financial plan does have certain expectations in what year
something is done, either implementing the service or implementing the capital
requirement associated with that. So I guess in that sense, yes, in the financial
plan it's there.
CHR. RUGGLES: Do you have any information on hydrogen buses for our
County?
MS. SOON: I'm aware of hydrogen buses. Sorry for so many editorial opinions.
I don't think they're really there yet. I think they will get there. I think I'd rather
see you stick to bread and butter, you know, while you get your system up. There
is also the four Mayors have all said that they're going to all electric. That too is
something that I've gone a little bit against the grain and said that I'd rather see
you getting the normal diesel buses, that you know how they work, and your
mechanics know how they work, and that you perhaps get one large electric and
one small electric and test them on all your routes. Then if you know that they're
really working—it's just that the range for the electric is around 200 miles. Well,
you're not going to use it Hilo to Kona and back. You know, you're not going to
just recharge on the other side.
So you know, being the Big Island and the long distances, it affects some of the
recommendations that would be made. So I guess I feel hydrogen is still new
enough that I don't see the reason why you would be one of the experimental test
cases with it.
CHR. RUGGLES: Do you know if we have any current hydrogen buses?
MS. SOON: We meaning the County?
CHR. RUGGLES: Yeah, this County.
MS. SOON: Not that I'm aware of.
CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, thank you. One last question. What was that number of
how much it costs per hour?
MS. SOON: Ninety-five to $100 per hour, over and above the equipment. In
operating costs. That's just what your current contract is with your Hele On.
MS. RUGGLES: I see.
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MS. SOON: That could change. I think it comes up again in the spring. They
claim they're losing money.
CHR. RUGGLES: Well, that is all the questions I have. I really appreciate the
comprehensive presentation. As you said, having a plan allows us to be taken
more seriously by federal agencies when we're searching for support.
MS. SOON: Yes.
CHR. RUGGLES: Just to reiterate for the public, the website that this plan can be
found on is heleonmasterplan.com. And we have a two-month review period, and
the next round of meetings are going to be in April. However, you can submit
your suggestions and review the plan online at that website,
heleonmasterplan. com.
Okay, with that I guess I'll close discussion at this time. All those in favor of
filing Communication 697 and 697. 1, please say "aye."
Vote on Comm. 697: The motion to close file on Comm. 697 and all related
Filed communications was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards,
and Chair Ruggles - 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
(There were none.)
CHR. RUGGLES: Moving to Bill 91. Mr. Clerk.
MR. HENRICKS: Madam Chair, before we go into Bill 91, I would recommend
perhaps you might recess your meeting, check to see if there's testimony for our
meeting that is two hours late and if there is take that testimony for that meeting,
and then open up our Planning meeting and see if there's testimony for that,
because that's supposed to start at 1:00 o'clock. So if nothing else, alter our
schedule to allow for public testimony.
Recess: At 1:05 p.m. the Chair called for a recess.
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Reconvene
BILLS FOR
ORDINANCES
January 23, 2018
The meeting was reconvened at 1:17 p.m.
CHR. RUGGLES: Good afternoon, everyone. I'm going to call the Committee
on Public Safety and Mass Transit out of recess and move to Bill 91.
The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
Bills for Ordinances.
Bill 91: AMENDS CHAPTER 26, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983
(2016 EDITION,_AS AMENDED), RELATING TO THE FIRE BOARD OF
APPEALS
Reestablishes the Fire Board of Appeals pursuant to Hawaii Revised Statutes,
Subsection 132-6(f), by adding a new Article 3, Fire Board of Appeals.
Reference: Comm. 684
Intr. by: Ms. Poindexter (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Poindexter moved to recommend passage of Bill 91
on first reading. Seconded by Ms. David.
CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, we have Battalion Chief Bobby Perreira in the Hilo
Council Chambers, if he would come forward.
(Note: At this time Battalion Chief Bobby Perreira came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. POINDEXTER: So if you could go ahead and explain Bill 91.
MR. PERREIRA: So Bill 91 is to reestablish the Fire Board of Appeals. In 2006
when we made our County Fire Code amendments, at the State level, we
consistently defer the Board of Appeals to the County and each County has to
decide how they would handle appeals in relation to the Fire Code. In 2006 when
the Fire Code for our County was approved, it was approved without proper
wording or proper legal right up for a Fire Board of Appeals. Why this is
important is that any time we are enforcing our Code, the people that we are
enforcing with need an opportunity to appeal any decision that our Fire Chief or
his designee makes.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, thank you. So basically, this is just affording the
people their right to an appeal.
MR. PERREIRA: Correct.
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MS. POINDEXTER: And an avenue for it. Okay. Thank you. I'll yield at this
time.
CHR. RUGGLES: Mr. Kanuha.
MR. KANUHA: How many appeals—or what happens between the time where
this was supposed to be implemented and now? Has somebody wanted to make
an appeal?
MR. PERREIRA: So we've had Fire Code violations where we write up a notice
of violation and we send it out, and we haven't had many appeals in the past. We
have one recent situation where an attorney for that property wanted to file an
appeal. It ties our hands with enforcement because we cannot enforce the law.
MR. KANUHA: So if somebody appeals this, without this amended section to
the Code, if somebody appealed the decision by the Fire Department, you would
be able to enforce it?
MR. PERREIRA: Correct.
MR. KANUHA: Wow.
MR. PERREIRA: Yeah, this is a big step. So in the past when we've had
situations that arise that we see it going down that road, we forward a lot to the
Building and Electrical Codes, because we enforce those. They have an appeals
process, so that's an avenue that we've been using, the Building Department and
the electrical department, and making sure that the Fire Code violations are
getting corrected. But when it comes specific to fire, we would definitely run into
issues, or if we wanted to enforce further than just a fire inspection report, we
would have issues.
MR. KANUHA: I understand the need for this, but how come it's taken over
10 years to come up with this amendment?
MR. PERREIRA: In the early `70's I believe there was an appeals board that was
put in place, and it's appointment by the Mayor. Obviously something that's not
used very often. A board can fall apart I guess. I don't know the exact words, but
in 2006, I was not part of that approval process of the Code. When I looked at the
Code and with the Corp. Counsel we determined that we needed to correct this.
So that's why we're trying to correct this now.
MR. KANUHA: Okay. I yield. Thank you.
CHR. RUGGLES: Ms. Lee Loy.
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MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I had a quick question. You provided a
qualifier for members of the appeals board. But under, it's Section 26-3-2(e), it
says, "The Fire Chief shall serve as an ex -officio member of the board." But
when you look at the qualifier for the member, we talk about Building Code or
general contractor. Is there a way to expand that to include maybe an ex -officio
member from Public works, or the Planning Department?
MR. PERREIRA: That would be under say number (Chapter) five, Building
Code enforcement. I have Craig Masuda here from Corporation Counsel. He can
expand on that also.
(Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Craig Masuda came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. MASUDA: Council Member Lee Loy, Craig Masuda, Corporation Counsel.
If you wanted to have it as an ex -officio member, we could add another (f),
subsection (f) as being an ex -officio. For (c), number (5) and number (2), those
would be for voting members. So if you want an amendment, then we can do
that.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Yeah Mr. Masuda, I understand the members should
have some professional knowledge, but I was just wondering if the department
and Corporation Counsel would support Building Department and Planning
Department at the table just on an as needed basis, which is why I would suggest
maybe an ex -officio member rather than a voting member.
MR. PERREIRA: This is Chief Perreira. I see what you're saying. That may be
something we should look at. We'll meet and talk.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Then Mr. Masuda, just so I understand this
correctly, with the formulation of this Fire Board of Appeals, the decision,
findings of fact, conclusions and decision is appealable to what board after this?
Or is this decision directly appealable to any higher agency?
MR. MASUDA: So what it is with mostactually with practically all Chapter 91
appeals. This would be a Chapter 91 appeal. Their further appeal right would be
to the Circuit Court.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Then we'll be following all of the provisions
provided under Chapter 91.
MR. MASUDA: Yes, and the Circuit Court, yeah.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. I yield, thank you.
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MR. PERREIRA: Council, just so you know, the wording here came right out of
our Fire Code. Basically we reviewed it and looked at its pertinence for our
County and our Fire Department.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you Chief. You know, I trust the business decision
of the material being delivered right out of the Code, but also, Mr. Masuda, you
know, you guys can take a look at the duties, roles and responsibilities and how
that might advance conversation during the board of appeals with an ex -officio
member from the department itself. So thank you. I yield.
MR. PERREIRA: Thank you.
CHR. RUGGLES: Any other discussion? Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Can I just ask that we pass this through Committee then at
Council look at the amendments, because then we'll have another opportunity.
Thank you.
CHR. RUGGLES: Okay, seeing or hearing no one else wishing to comment, all
those in favor of Bill 91, creating a Fire Board of Appeals, please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 91: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 91 on first reading
(Approved) was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards,
and Chair Ruggles - 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. RUGGLES: May I have a motion to adjourn?
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PSMTC-6 January 23, 2018
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 1:27 p.m., Ms. Poindexter moved to
MENT: adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, and
Richards, and Chair Ruggles - 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. RUGGLES: We are adjourned. Thank you.
Approved:
6 / )--2v i
Ms. fifer Ruggles, Chair (Date)
Publi' Safety and Mass Transit Committee
JR/j a/na
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