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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PWPRC 2018/08/21 2016-2018Committee on Public Works and Parks and Recreation 23rd Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii August 21, 2018 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Public Works and Parks and ORDER: Recreation was called to order at 12:00 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Vice Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron Chung, Member Ms. Karen Eoff, Member Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Member Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member (came in later) Absent: STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS COMMUNI- r A TTnNc Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Chair The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. The following individuals registered to speak to comment on Bill 176 (Comm. 1023), and came forward when called by the Chair: Val Colter. Mitzi Bettencourt. Jon Olson. The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Communications. (There were none.) PWPRC-23 August 21, 2018 ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions. (There were none.) BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 176: AMENDS CHAPTER 5, ARTICLE 2, DIVISION 3, SECTION 5-25, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO THE BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS The amendment would exempt privately -owned single family residences from structural review and requirements to provide structural calculations when an applicant seeks a building permit, provided that drawings are signed and sealed by a professional architect or a structural engineer who is licensed and insured in the State of Hawaii. Reference: Comm. 1023 Intr. by: Ms. Ruggles ACTING CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Before I ask for a motion I just want to make a note that we have Director Allan Simeon, Deputy Merrick Nishimoto, David Yamamoto, and Neil Erickson all in our Hilo Council Chambers. Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend passage of Bill 176 on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Chung. ACTING CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: I'm going to be making a motion to defer or continue at some point, but I wanted to make just a few brief comments about this. I'm going to assume that this piece of legislation was properly introduced. We had a whole discussion about legitimacy and things like that. I'm still not clear on Ms. Ruggles' standing on this body. I mean, I consider her our colleague, but I don't know what she considers herself right now. So, just for discussion sake, I'm going to assume that it was a properly introduced piece of legislation, and I think it's something that has been highly anticipated by many within the private sector and many people who are just seeking to build their homes. But, I do know this, it's going to be difficult for us to continue without her here, but I also know that Ms. Lee Loy has been working on something for quite some time, and she's been holding off on it, wanting to get more information from the administration. And of course, she'll have an Page 2 PWPRC-23 August 21, 2018 opportunity to speak on that too. I actually had something, too, but it's not really complete. I know she's very close to completion on hers, if not complete But, with regard to this particular piece of legislation, I think it's not expansive enough. It only relates to single family homes. If we're going to move in that direction, which I think we should because we have, and the public has been waiting for a long time for the building permit process to improve. We certainly want to give the department an opportunity to speak, too, because we have newly installed Director and Deputy and I'm sure they want to tell us what efforts they've been making. But, at the same time, I'm anxious to see what Ms. Lee Loy is going to be presenting. I think there also needs to be some tweaking regarding the insurance requirements for either the architects or the engineers instead of just leaving it to them being licensed and insured. So, I think Ms. Ruggles was on the right track, but it's just not expansive enough and needs a bit more thought. Not much more thought, really, but I think we're moving in that direction. And I wanted to say one more thing too. You know, we were talking about liability. One of the speakers spoke of liability. The county actually has a liability by doing things in the building permit process by changing architects or engineers' plan. We become liable. Joe, I think you can probably speak to that later on at some other time because we have that landmark case, right? Cootey versus Sun Investment, back in the 1970's Big Island case. I don't know why we haven't really been following the precepts of that case. We've actually been going opposite of what we should be doing. That's all I have to say, but I'm hoping we can defer this though. ACTING CHR. DAVID: Thank you for your comments, Mr. Chung. Before I go to Ms. Lee Loy, I'd like to make a note that Mr. Richards has joined us. Welcome back. Ms. Lee Loy, do you want to defer to the department? MS. LEE LOY: Yes, for right now. ACTING CHR. DAVID: Okay, great. So, in Hilo, Director Simeon and Deputy Director Nishimoto, would you care to come to the table and give us your comments regarding this proposed legislation? (Note: At this time, Department of Public Works Deputy Director Merrick Nishimoto and Department of Public Works Building Chief David Yamamoto came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. NISHIMOTO: Good afternoon. Page 3 PWPRC-23 August 21, 2018 ACTING CHR. DAVID: Good afternoon. Identify yourself for the record, please. MR. NISHIMOTO: My name is Merrick Nishimoto, Deputy Director of Public Works. Thank you for this opportunity. We see the intent of this bill and we highly respect the intent to speed up the process for the building permits, and therefore, help the community. Unfortunately, I will go on record now that DPW (Department of Public Works) does not support this bill. And saying that, I'm going to let subject matter experts dive into the details as far as why we do not support this bill. We do support the intent and the logic of getting things more efficient in the building department for permits, however, we do not believe this bill will help that. And with that, I will turn it over to David Yamamoto, who is the building division chief ACTING CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Nishimoto, and Mr. Yamamoto, go ahead. Identify yourself for the record. MR. YAMAMOTO: David Yamamoto, building chief. ACTING CHR. DAVID: Thank you. MR. YAMAMOTO: I concur with Deputy Director, Merrick Nishimoto in that we do not support this bill. Basically, in issuing a permit, the building division is charged with assuring that the plans and specifications are meeting the Building Code. So, in issuing a permit without any review, we cannot comply with the requirement that the application meets the Code. And basically, that's the cut and dry, short version of why there is a requirement to review these permits and applications before a permit is issued. In legality wise, maybe our Corporation Counsel can speak to how the county is charged with the responsibility of life safety and enforcing these codes and what could be the ramifications for exempting a review of plans and specifications and just issuing a permit without any review. ACTING CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Does Mr. Erickson want to weigh in? (Note: At this time, Department of Public Works Plans Examining Manager Neil Erickson came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. ERICKSON: Neil Erickson, Plans Examining Manager for the Building Division in the County of Hawaii. There were a couple of things that were stated. Jon mentioned snow loads. You know, our building codes are not universal, they're very specific to every region and specific to Hawai'i County in fact. And certainly, snow loads are not required. In fact, there's a 20 percent Page 4 PWPRC-23 August 21, 2018 reduction for all roof loads and maybe he's not aware of that and the draftsperson that's here today may not be aware of it. All of your roofing numbers needn't be as strong as specified in the Code, and discounts are available. Building Codes, unfortunately, evolves through disaster, and so, whether it's a hurricane or an earthquake, these kinds of things become more and more specific about what kind of requirements we need to see. The International Residential Code (IRC), on the other hand, is very general. It gives you prescriptive methods and it really allows for a lot of things under the Code that are easy to accomplish, and anybody who wants to spend a few minutes reading the Code or go through an analysis of that—in fact, I spend a lot of time with the applicants that come to the counter and I explain to them the options that the IRC gives. And they are not difficult to achieve. Even the single-wall home is permitted, if you're interested in rebuilding that house. It just needs to be engineered because it's not a standard, prescriptive method. But, those kinds of things are out there. The one question I did want to touch on was whether or not the word "insurance" should be included. And yes, maybe Council Member Chung has a point to a degree. Most plans stamped and signed by architects in Hawai'i are working for the draftsperson, not the owner. So, regardless whether insurance is provided, they're not insuring the homeowner. So, if something should happen, there's no direct relationship between the homeowner and the architect. So, the liability, whether it's insured or not, gets lost. There's no direct contract with the architect and the homeowner. And that's something I think that we've been remised, as far as enforcing in this county. Other specific details in the Code, I'd be happy to address, but, I think I'd really like to hear from our Corporation Counsel with regard to application of the state laws which we're bound by duty and right to uphold. ACTING CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Erickson. Corporation Counsel, would you like to respond or expand? (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KAMELAMELA: Good afternoon, Chair, and members of the County Council. I was hoping that there would be a little bit more expansive on the process, but maybe they can deal with that. I do know that Council Member Lee Loy had been working with building on something that I think is kind of exciting. So, she has an opportunity. But, we had a State Building Code that had already been adopted, and so generally, there's a certain time period in which, if the counties wanted to amend it, they have a two-year period to do so. So, we kind of missed that amendment Page 5 PWPRC-23 August 21, 2018 period and maybe that's why Maui was able to slip it in. Because I heard that coming in. But currently, we all know that, yes, DPW has the duty to enforce and ensure compliance with the Building Code because they're the only agency that we have looking at it. I wanted to kind of mention that Cootey case that Council Member Chung had talked about because that kind of states in a nutshell that, yes, we have a duty to regulate, but that's all. If there'sI think that it was done wrong with calculations. In Cootey, it was a flood case, there were problems that the engineers had done some calculations, which happened to be wrong, but the county wasn't liable because all it had was that duty to regulate. In the end, it was the engineer who was held responsible because the calculations that was done. Another reason why I mentioned the calculation is because I noticed that's something that's discussed in this particular proposed bill. I'm not too sure why people want to do that, but because the building codes are meant to ensure safety and health, there's reasons why, over time, more and more requirements are made. Because maybe there's flood, maybe it's tsunami concerns, there are hurricanes that we had to deal with. So, the Building Code was meant to take care of those situations, along with the health concerns with plumbing and the electrical. So, I think there should be a body that's responsible and what the proposal does is to eliminate that duty and not really account for sometimes the licensed professional potential errors, because that happens. What I've seen in the department so far, and I don't know if the number that is correct. Yes, usually the first submission, people are going to forget to put things but it's my understanding that over 50 percent of those submissions on the first time around gets approved. Then, there's a second submission and then maybe it's like 30 percent more. So that eventually, whatever needs to get done gets done, and then from what we call from making the stats, we have 7 percent that maybe have more than four submissions. But, it's important that somebody be in charge of compliance because of the health and safety concerns that is something that we need to look at. And sometimes when you hire people, too, two things happen. The person that you hire, you know, have an interest somewhat to the people that hire you. So, that's why sometimes they're just doing what the homeowner wants. But the second point that I've seen, too, is because there are draftsmen that are involved, sometimes we have just the licensed professionals stamp and then actually what happens is that over time, there's kind of a relationship that's built with some of those people with Public Works where they want the help from the department. So, we have that kind of a relationship going on. I know that I went beyond just the legal things but I thought I wanted to give some background. Page 6 PWPRC-23 August 21, 2018 ACTING CHR. DAVID: Okay. Thank you very much. Now I'm kind of excited to hear what Ms. Lee Loy's got to say on this. Thank you, Mr. Kamelamela. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair, and Mr. Chung is absolutely right. I have been working very hard with the Department of Public Works and all the various stakeholders, not only the architects and the draftsmen, but even the vendors that provide building products for the construction of homes. And I do want to defer this because first and foremost, I'm going to defend the Department of Public Works right now. They take a lot of heat for the timing of the building permits, but what people fail to recognize is they are just one of many eyes and checks that have to go through these building permit applications, including the Department of Health, Planning Department, Fire Department. And so, there is a number of people that we have to streamline a process for. We have the UBC (Uniform Building Code), we have the IRC Code, we have the Fire Code. At some point, we have to smooth all of these things out, in addition to all of the building calculations and the footings, whether they're on slab or on post and pier and what the soil depths are. It is a very complexed issue. Now having said that, Mr. Nishimoto and the Director Simeon, and even David Yamamoto, has been in the room where I have asked them to toe the line. That waiting six, nine, 18 months for a building permit is absolutely unacceptable. If we intend to find ways of increasing our revenue stream and the only option we have is real property tax, we have to permit structures. That's how we increase the revenue stream. Now, they know we have to manage expectations, and a lot of times consumers coming in have a mindset on what they want and all of these different individuals, the draftsman, the architects, the consumer, the building industry themselves have to navigate all of this to deliver to a homeowner what they want. And it is an incredible bridge to gap. That being said, we have worked long and hard for the last four months coming up with a flow chart to manage these expectations. But, also to educate, which is something that Mr. Erickson is talking about, to educate the draftsman or the consumer on what is already available to them within these various codes or how to meet those expectations with the structural calculations. I hear Ms. Colter's frustration. Sometimes it's one way and another time it's somewhere else. That being said, we have identified all of those short comings and I have a commitment from members within the Planning Department and within the building division to start to close the gap, manage those expectations, and provide what we hope could be a very streamlined building permit process in which someone can get in and out within four to six months. That is our goal. The other piece that I'm hoping to work with is the Charter Review Commission, because all too often people complain to the building department with no resolve. And maybe there's an opportunity to create some type of advisory board that the Page 7 PWPRC-23 August 21, 2018 department can interface with and the public can interface with to help filter the concerns, rather than sitting across the table and taking up valuable time where Mr. Yamamoto or Mr. Erickson could be reviewing plans rather than explaining a process. I shared all of that with you to say I have been working diligently with the department and I think we have something pretty exciting coming forward. I don't want to go too far for fear of violating any future sunshine laws, but Mr. Chung is absolutely right. We're not just looking at single family residential, we're looking at expanding the process. This is the bread and butter for us and the department also knows that if they're requesting more staff, we need to meet some expectations that we can guarantee people will have their building permits and there's a return on that investment. We're working with the industry to get preapproved packaged homes. We're looking at additional dwelling units that could help supplement some housing, mid -and short-term. I mean, we're trying to incentivize them. We're looking at it all. So, I'm just going to leave it right there. If we could just please defer this, and I'm also going to be looking back at the Department of Public Works to convene another stakeholders meeting with people in the industry, like our draftsmen, like our architects, but also our contractors. Because they're the ones putting the homes together. That being said, I'm open to any suggestions or comments for outlining what I hope will be a very comprehensive and valuable tool for our housing industry coming forward. ACTING CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Thank you. Council Members, anyone else? Mr. Chung, do you want to? Vote on Motion to Mr. Chung moved to postpone Bill 176 to the call of the Postpone: Chair. Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following (Approved) roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Acting Chair David — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles —1. Excused: None. Page 8 PWPRC-23 August 21, 2018 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 12:31 p.m., Ms. Poindexter moved to adjourn MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kanuha Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Acting Chair David — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles — 1. Excused: None. MS. DAVID: We are adjourned. Mahalo everybody. Approved: r / s. Maile Medeiros David, Vice Chair Public Works and Parks and Recreation Committee MD/jm �--- (Date) Page 9