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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN EMC 2018/10/02 2016-2018Committee on Environmental Management 16th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii October 2, 2018 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Environmental Management was called ORDER: to order at 1:05 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Ms. Karen Eoff, Member Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Absent & Excused: Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Member STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Sylvia Dolena: Tina Bounds: Linda Brooks: (representing Rainbow Friends Animal Sanctuary) Gerald Marsischky: Armon Collman: Mary Rose Krijgsman: (representing Rainbow Friends Animal Sanctuary) Bill 192 (Comm. 1083), in support. Bill 192 (Comm. 1083), in support. Bill 192 (Comm. 1083), in support. Comm. 1094, comment. Comm. 1094, comment. Bill 192 (Comm. 1083), in support. EMC -16 October 2, 2018 CHR. O'HARA: Starting at the top of the agenda with Communication 1094 COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 1094: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT, DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION, AND CIVIL DEFENSE AGENCY REGARDING THEIR RESPECTIVE PROTOCOLS ON BROWN WATER ADVISORIES From Council Member Aaron Chung, dated September 21, 2018. Motion to Close File: Mr. Chung moved to close file on Comm. 1094. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. O'HARA: Go ahead and proceed, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Thank you, Madam Chairman. I wanted to thank Council Chair Poindexter for allowing us to have this breached. I think it was important for us to have it in Hilo, inasmuch as all of our resources are County department heads who are here in Hilo. If not, we would have had to have done it via videoconferencing in Kona. So, thank you very much. Over the last few weeks after Hurricane Lane and particularly before that, we've been getting a lot of inquiries about our brown water protocol. You know, maybe to address the gentleman from Portland as well as Jerry, we're not here to—the intent today is not to provide any proposals or offer any proposals right now. There may be things that come out later on, but this is simply to just explain to the public, and you, and us, so that we can further explain to the public what the protocols are when there are situations that may create an unsafe—make it unsafe for people going to our recreational areas, particularly the beaches, So, that's the scope of what we're going to be doing today. But hopefully, we can maybe get our protocol better if need be. There's one thing, though, we distributed all of this to the Council Members. This is materials from the Department of Health (DOH). Now, we invited them here and, you know, they're under no obligation to come here, but they're really a key piece in all of this, and I think we'll see after we listen to our departments. I don't know, I don't think they prepared this for our meeting. It seems to be just some stock explanation as to what their protocol is pertaining to response to sewage spills, brown water advisories, and the Hilo sewage spill. It didn't come with any letterhead or any explanation. I don't really know who it came from quite frankly, but it came from the Department of Health. It does explain what their protocol is with regard to sewage spills, whoever is in control of that sewage system, and I think in this situation, it would be the County of Hawai'i. They Page 2 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 would make a report and the Department of Health would do something and then of course, with brown water advisories, whenever you have flash flood warnings, it's kind of—just read it at your leisure but take it for what it's worth. But, this triggers some other action on the part the Department of Parks and Recreation, perhaps Environmental Management, and maybe Civil Defense. We have those three departments here today. So, if you guys could just come up and explain to us what happens when you get notice of some water contamination. We have Maurice, Roxcie, Bill, and Talmadge. Talmadge, I don't know how much you have to offer on this one, but you may as well come up too. And really, again, this is not to put any of you guys on the spot or anything like that, it's just to get information out as to what we do to protect the public. (Note: At this time, Department of Environmental Management Director William Kucharski came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KUCHARSKI: Bill Kucharski, Director of DEM (Department of Environmental Management). This is a hard one for the County to respond to because this is totally and completely a Department of Health issue. The Department of Health does not have any statute or regulatory basis for declaring a brown water alert. They do it when there's excessive rainfall, and for this, just for example, during Hurricane Lane, there were five alerts that the Department of Health put out. They came in and it was August 22nd and 23rd, there was a brown water alert for Hawai'i County. August 23rd to 28�h, there was a general statewide brown water alert. From the 24�h to the 27�h of August, there was a Hawai'i County spill advisory, and on the 28�h to September fourth, there was still a Hawai'i County alert for brown water. When you take a look at the flows that we had and the rainfall from Lane, you can understand why there was an alert. Now, we had spills during that event because of the amount of rainfall that came down. It just overwhelmed our system. We responded, we had the reports, and we sent three separate spill reports as required by code and by HAR (Hawai'i Administrative Rules) regulations to the Department of Health. Brown water alert is not ours, we just respond to it. What that says is for residents to stay out of the water. It says that the Department of Health is advising the public to stay out of streams, coastal, and standing waters that are contaminated by storm water. Storm water may contain harmful microorganisms from overflowing cesspools or septic tanks as well as animal waste washed in the streams and storm drains. That is the extent. It says, "Don't go into the water." This last brown water alert was lifted on the fourth of September. Our last bill was the 25�h of August, so, that was full, 10 days after there were any discharges, or we call it spill. There's really not much I can say. We're not authorized to call Page 3 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 a brown water alert and we're not obligated to do anything about a brown water alert. We are not authorized to establish or do anything with that information other than acknowledge that the State has done that. MR. CHUNG: So, when the state issues that brown water alert, are there any signage protocols that go into place from the departments? Maybe of Parks and Recreation? I know the man from Portland brought something up about that. I mean we should be warning people. MR. KUCHARSKI: I don't mean to sound like it's not our responsibility, but that is defined by the State. The State is the one that states whether—gives the indication when an area needs to be posted and signage placed. Frankly, I wouldn't know where to put any signage for brown water alert if it's for the entire island. Where do I post? MR. CHUNG: No, but maybe not just you, but the department. Parks and Recreation, do you guys have any input on this? Talmadge, did you want to say something? (Note: At this time, Civil Defense Administrator Talmadge Magno came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MAGNO: Good afternoon, Talmadge Magno from Civil Defense. Usually, what the Department of Health does is if it's a specific area, they will post it. But, like Bill was saying, that the entire island in this past instance, the entire island was under brown water advisory, so, they just left it at that as far as public notice. Otherwise, they felt that they'd have to sign the whole island. MR. CHUNG: So, who issues that notice to the public? The Department of Health? MR. MAGNO: Yes, the Department of Health does, and they have a website, and you can get the alerts from their website as well. MR. CHUNG: How about on the radio? MR. MAGNO: I hear it on the radio. I think it comes across TV as well. If they ask us, even with DEM, we'll put out notices and that will be our extent. MR. CHUNG: So, this is solely within the purview of the Department of Health then basically? That's their responsibility to get the word out? MR. MAGNO: Yes. Page 4 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 MR. CHUNG: Okay. And you think, I mean particularly, maybe from Parks and Recreation because you have kids going in beach areas, do you think it's something that we could augment possibly? (Note: At this time, Parks and Recreation Director Roxcie Waltjen came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. WALTJEN: Roxcie Waltjen, Director of Parks and Recreation. I think this is something that we can look forward to maybe trying to work with them, maybe having signs posted. I think we need to come up with a system of how we're going to do this. What areas and when are these signs going to be left up there forever and ever or are they going to be taken away? Because in the past, whenever a sign is erected anywhere, we have had people complaint that we're polluting the area with signage. So, that's another thing that we need to be concerned about. MR. CHUNG: You cannot win. MS. WALTJEN: That's right. MR. CHUNG: Okay. So, do you guys work closely, though, with the Department of Health? Is there a person, and you don't have to name names or anything, but MS. WALTJEN: We work with the Department of Health when we have to. It's not that we're on a daily basis kind of communication, but, if this is something that the Council and the County needs to look at to better our services and make it safer for the community, absolutely. We can do that. We can have a meeting with them and see how we can work together. MR. CHUNG: Because I think it is causing some apprehension to a lot of people, in particular those with kids, right? But maybe Maurice, you might want to share your experience during Hurricane Lane, and you kind of went over and above what your responsibilities call for. MR. MAGNO: Aaron, let me expand upon that. In the instances where they put up the signs MR. CHUNG: You mean the Department of Health? MR. MAGNO: Yes. There are conflicts. People who say, they put up the signs and there are people in the water. So, lifeguards won't enforce it, nobody won't enforce. It's just a warning that there are high levels of certain bacterias. It's your decision whether you want to go in there or not. Page 5 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 MR. CHUNG: Would they let people into the water if it's an unsafe situation though? I don't know what level contamination rises to of being unsafe. MR. MAGNO: The signs, basically, I'm not sure of the exact wording, but it says to stay out of the water. When there's sewage release, the levels could be pretty high depending on what your exposure is. There could be issues. MR. CHUNG: But, it's not by you guys. You guys don't issue that, it's the State? MR. MAGNO: Yes. Not unless DEM has some kind of release, then DEM will do monitoring and they'll post as well. MR. CHUNG: Okay, let's kind of use a different analogy here. Let's say Portuguese man-of-war was cruising around over there. Who determines that Portuguese man-of-war is out in our recreationalDLNR (Department of Land and Natural Resources)? They would post signs? You guys would post signs? Nobody post signs? I see it all the time, though, in the news, they have signs, right? Don't they have signs? MR. MAGNO: Maybe for Waikiki. MR. CHUNG: So, City and County might do something like that but we don't? MR. MAGNO: Yeah, I don't think we have that kind of tourist or beach density. MR. CHUNG: Okay, because I'm not in any way shape or form suggesting that you guys create a lab to determine contamination or anything like that. We just want to make sure that we understand what the protocols are in case certain things happen. You know, sewage spill, brown water, flash flooding. Do you think we could do better though? (Note: At this time, Department of Parks and Recreation Deputy Director Maurice Messina came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MESSINA: Maurice Messina, Deputy Director of Parks and Recreation. Like Roxcie was saying, we could do a lot better because what we end up having to do is we go onto the Department of Health website, and we go to the Clean Water Branch, and we check to see what active alerts are there because we do get the phone calls. People are asking us constantly and then they ask us, "Who's going to put up the signs?" We do not put up the signs. We want to keep the citizens informed of everything that's going on, but, is it just an advisory level though, or is it an alert level? Because the advisory says that people should Page 6 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 remain vigilant. If they see brown water, stay out of the brown water area. So, we do not have the expertise to say which signs we should put up and when should we put up those signs? Like Bill was saying, where exactly should those signs be placed? I mean, is there a distance between each sign that should be put up? Is there exact wording on that sign? These are all good questions and we want to make sure that the people at our beach parks are safe, and we want to work with these guys. But right now, we are, truthfully, we have to go and do our due diligence every time we hear there may be brown water out there to see if there is a brown water advisory in effect. MR. CHUNG: Okay. Well, like I said, I anticipated this being a short presentation just so that they could tell us what their responsibilities are and what the Department of Health's responsibilities are. Anybody else have any questions? (Note: At this time, Department of Environmental Management Director Bill Kucharski came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KUCHARSKI: If I could, Council Member. Bill Kucharski, DEM. It should be—there are two different kinds of alerts. One is if we have a sewer spill. If we have a sewer spill that is greater than 1,000 gallons, we are required to come in, notify the Department of Health, post signs that there has been a release, and test. We do have a lab that can test, and it takes 24 hours to culture for the organisms that we test for. In a brown water alert, it's not usually associated with an unauthorized release of sewage. In the case of Lane, our system was overwhelmed and the discharges that went out were massive, when you take a look at millions of gallons. Most of that water that was discharged was rain water, but it was mixed with sewage, so, we had to report the entire set. When we did that, and we had those releases, since we were still in the middle of the hurricane, still getting rain events, the Department of Health said we didn't need to post for those individual releases. But, there are two types. When we have a release, we have the responsibility to post the signs where, and we let DOH know where that is, and then we need to test. We send them the results and they say, "Okay, you can remove the signs." Brown water event is associated with the rainfall event, not a sewage discharge event. MR. CHUNG: Okay, thank you. MS. POINDEXTER: Madam Chair? Page 7 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 CHR. O'HARA: Ms. Poindexter. MS. POINDEXTER: I have a question, because every time we seem to have a lot of rain, we end up with a lot of sewage spills or overflows, I don't know, releases or whatever they're calling it or breakage in something. What are we doing? Are we building something else that would be able to handle more of the sewage so that it doesn't break or over spill or release into the because there are times that it will spill, times that people may purposely release. I don't know if they purposely release. I know in some areas they may purposely release, but what are we doing to safeguard from not having that happen again? MR. KUCHARSKI: This Lane event was an extraordinary event. I know that we know there was a lot of rain. But, just to give you an idea, USGS (United States Geological Survey), indicated Wailuku and Rainbow Falls usually is about 30 cubic feet per second is the flow. And on the morning of August 23rd, the flow was about 26,000 cubic feet per second. So, that kind of rain event is not something that you can design for. What we do have iswe have pump stations, which means whenever we're low, we need to pump up. We have a pump station and those pump stations were overwhelmed. We had—well some of them weren't overwhelmed. We had, in Wailoa, it normally pumps about three million gallons a day and it was pumping about 20 million gallons a day on that system. Where we had our release was at the Pua Pump Station because that was undersized when it was originally built. We do have plans to come in and replace that with a pump station of adequate size, but, even with that, we were pumping 13 million gallons a day, flow rate, into the sewer treatment plant in Hilo. The remaining discharge was in excess of that. So, that's something that we can change it to increase the size of that pump station. But, the rest, on this rain event, this is something you really can't design for. It was just overwhelming. MS. POINDEXTER: The reason why I say that is I'm looking for a way to prevent that from happening again because a lot of times, there is a lot of development on the mauka lands. So, rain water comes down really quick now, more than we had in years past. If you look along the Hamakua Coast, too, you see the destruction and it's because of development now on mauka lands, whether that be for agriculture or whatever it is, we're having a lot of movement up on those lands and things are coming down really quick. Thank you for that. CHR. O'HARA: Anyone else like to speak? Ms. David. MS. DAVID: Really quick, I just would like to thank Council Member Chung because people do call. Our constituents do call during emergencies, and I assumed that it was the department or one department of the county that would be Page 8 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 responsible for this. So, I appreciate Mr. Chung having you folks here to tell us and explain to us what the procedures are and what your roles and responsibilities are. So, I appreciate that. I yield. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you, Ms. David. Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Kucharski, Parks department, Civil Defense, and mostly, Mr. Chung. I actually have a couple of questions because I want to figure out a way to do this a little better, separate and apart from our sewage spills and from our brown water advisory. After the Puna event, all of the beach parks in my district is where they all go now. I have 11 beach parks. So, I am incredibly interested in doing a better job at notifying people what risks there may be with visiting our beach parks. So, just keeping the brown water advisory in a lane, is it possible for us to utilize our message boards with the Department of Public Works before they drive in to Keaukaha, to notify them that there is a brown water notice and to be vigilant? Is that something that we can try and do? MR. MESSINA: Maurice Messina, Deputy Director of Parks and Recreation. We could. Some of these brown water advisories may be up to like a month in length. So, we would still have to count on the Department of Health and the Clean Water Branch to tell us when we need to do it and where we need to do it. For instance, if it's the entire island, how do we do that part? We could try everything but it's still going to be the Department of Health that's going to tell us what we need to do and when we need to do it, because we're not experts. But, we're willing to try anything. MS. LEE LOY: So, where do we start that conversation? We really need to bridge the gap between the State Department of Health and our community. I'm sure every single Council Member up here has gotten a call from a constituent because the rubber meets the road with us. They call us first. How do we bridge that gap? MR. MESSINA: Like Roxcie said, we'll do that now. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. And maybe for Mr. Kucharski, I know this one's a little bit more complex just because it's the County's responsibility to handle our wastewater, but then, we have a tremendous amount of oversight with the Department of Health. So, can we talk a little bit about when there's a sewage spill, how that communication happens, and then how the signposting happens, and then I think the next piece to that for me is what the County can do to better alert the community of a sewage spill. Page 9 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 MR. KUCHARSKI: We are required—Bill Kucharski, DEM. The department is required, as the operator of sewage treatment plants, to notify the Department of Health whenever we have a spill or an unauthorized release. When that occurs, we have five days to send in a notification. Anytime it's greater than a thousand gallons, we need to make that report. Even before we do that, we would come in when there was a release and we would have discussions with the Department of Health. Signage would be posted, and samples would be taken in the beach areas that could be affected by that release. That's not a precise science, but we tend to over post if we have a release. We then come in and take samples along the beach and we take them to the lab, we grow the cultures, and if we are below the 30 colonies or 100 colonies per milliliter, they come in and say, "Okay, this is clear, you can remove the signage." But, we have a full process when we have a specific spill, and we follow that diligently. We're also required to notify all the news outlets and we notify Civil Defense and these notices are put out by all of them. We have a full distribution list for radio, newspapers, and other news organizations to let them know that this has occurred. MS. LEE LOY: You've gone through this a couple of times. When we talk about signposting and where they belong, is there a rule of thumb or is there a protocol like every 10 feet along the shoreline, within a half a mile radius? And I'm asking this question because if we're going to take it on with our beach parks and our brown water advisory, maybe there's some four corners already available with the Department of Health so we're actually consistent that every 30 yards or every 40 yards, there's a sign. MR. KUCHARSKI: I'm not aware of a specific distance between signs, but generally, when we post, we put them close enough that if anyone is walking down, if they miss one, they will see another. I can't give you a specific foot distance between them, but the signs are approved by the Department of Health. It's their signage, we maintain them, and we post them, and they tell us when we have to put them up, and we tell them where we've posted. They agree or disagree. If they disagree, we'll put more signage. They never disagree if we have too much signage, so, that's not a problem. But then, when the beach is cleared, and the analysis shows that the beaches are not exhibiting pathogen counts higher than the standard, then we take the signs down and remove them. But, it's a process that's fully coordinated with the Department of Health in Honolulu. MS. LEE LOY: I'm just wondering if there's a way we can actually dovetail something that's already out there as far as putting them out and taking them down when it relates to a brown water advisory. I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Page 10 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 MR. KUCHARSKI: Again, for brown water, we don't post. There's no postage for brown water. We'll say that for every rain event, you will find a higher bacterial count on your beaches because of the wash down from the soils. So, brown water is just an excess of flow. MS. LEE LOY: I'm going to yield, but I do have one more question. Tell me again the flow volumes during Lane. I'm doing the math in my head. I'm very curious about the amount of water that was coming down the hill. MR. KUCHARSKI: Well, this was from the USGS and I can give you a copy of the printout. They said that the Rainbow Falls is usually 35 cubic feet per second. MS. LEE LOY: Per second. Okay. MR. KUCHARSKI: The morning of the 23rd, they measured in the area of 26,000 cubic feet per second. So, that's almost 900 times increase. MS. LEE LOY: Seven gallons per cubic feet. That's a lot of water. MR. KUCHARSKI: This is a record. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Okay. MR. KUCHARSKI: It's actually higher than the 1900—they believe. I mean there, it was 26,030 and some number. MS. LEE LOY: I'm going to figure it out right now. But, in the meantime, I'm going to yield. Thank you, Mr. Chung. Really, I think the Department of Health has to be at the table for this conversation to go a whole lot farther. But, thank you for raising this issue for us. Thank you. I yield. CHR. O'HARA: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Bill. Actually, thanks all departments, Roxcie, Mo, Talmadge. I think what I'm hearing is this is attempting to get arms around a public health concern. But, I think the departments have been pretty frank, but gently frank about the fact that brown water doesn't necessarily imply unhealthy water. It's turbid, but it's not actually contaminated necessarily, except when you have a sewage release. The problem is we have a big island with lots of coastline. The reality of trying to manage that as a whole, and I get it because in Kohala, we get it too. We get big rain coming off the mountain and we get the coastline's pretty dark. I don't think it's a bad concern. I think it's a very valid concern. The problem is how do we actually manage that concern? We have to have, and I agree with Councilwoman Page 11 EMC -16 Vote on Comm. 1094 Filed October 2, 2018 Lee Loy concerning the—we have to have the Department of Health in there in that determination. Good point. So, where do we post it? We have 300 miles plus of coastline, so, where do we post it? So, it's a good conversation but I think we really have to have a lot more conversations before we can get into anything. So, just comments, and I appreciate that, and I appreciate the departments' frankness about it. I yield. CHR. O'HARA: Any other Council person have any comments? Seeing none, I guess it's time to call for a vote. All those in favor of filing Communication 1094 please say "aye." The motion to close file on Comm. 1094 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair O'Hara — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles —1. Excused: None. CHR. O'HARA: Okay, onto the next item on the agenda. Before I do, I would like to ask Mr chair. Richards, the Vice Chair of the committee if he would assume the Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Richards. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. (There were none.) ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. At 1:50, I'm assuming the chair as the Chair is stepping aside to make an introduction. With that, Clerk, can we have reading of Bill 192? BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Page 12 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 Bill 192: AMENDS CHAPTER 2, ARTICLE 40, SECTION 2-202, AND CHAPTER 14, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT Establishes an Environmental Quality Control program to mitigate nuisance factors at County facilities and County -owned properties, such as improperly - handled refuse and wastewater, invasive plants, and feral cats, dogs, and pigs. Reference: Comm. 1083 Intr. by: Ms. O'Hara Motion to Approve: Ms. O'Hara moved to recommend passage of Bill 192 on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha. ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: Councilwoman O'Hara. MS. O'HARA: Bill 192 may need some additional work, but I wanted to give some background now. We have all received a communication, I believe we've all received from Corporation Counsel, a communication this morning and that's the first time I saw it as well. I do have some disagreements with that and I would like a discussion with Corporation Counsel, who is not in the room at this moment, before proceeding with this bill. But, just to provide some background, given the testimonies that we did receive, this is intended to assist with a problem that we have with over population of abandoned and feral animals. They primarily, unfortunately, are disposed of as waste at our transfer stations and thus, it does fall upon the Department of Environmental Management to manage those locations. It's not something that we can call the State DLNR to manage our facilities. So, it is a problem that we need to address. The Code, or the Charter allows for changes to the duties of the Department of Environmental Management through modification to code. And that is what this Bill 192 is attempting to do. I understand that Corporation Counsel has some concerns about wording of the bill, and I would like to have a meeting with Mr. Kamelamela between now and bringing this bill back to Council, to see is if we can resolve some of those issues. So, that's where it stands now. But, in essence of the discussion you heard from testifiers, there had been talk of splitting the Animal Control Program into two parts. One, which would remain with HPD (Hawai`i Police Department), which is seriously animal control, and then another piece that would address the animal welfare or animal population problem of the island through a price term agreement, which would call upon all organizations who are available to us to do spay and neuter clinics. Page 13 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 Currently, with the animal control contract that we have, we're only achieving about 800 spay and neuter per year. We need to be doing 5,000 or more to get control over our excessive, overpopulated, feral, and abandoned animal population. So, trying to get to the crux of the problem through separation of the contract ran us into this issue with the duties of the Department of Environmental Management. So, I would like to continue to work on this and bring this back to Council if possible. So that's the background. ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: Other comments? Councilwoman Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Yes, I would like to thank Councilwoman O'Hara for bringing this forward because we did hear some ways to divorce the two pieces. The animal control piece separate and apart from the spay and neuter piece. A numbermyself, Council Member Richards, Ms. Eoff, and Ms. David also hear the same concerns in our non-profit committee where a number of them are looking for funding for the spay and neuter piece. I kind of want to keep this conversation going, but in light of what we have from our Office of Corporation Counsel, I'd actually like to consider a motion pursuant to rule 2 and Hawai'i Revised Statutes chapter 92.5 to consult with our Corporation Counsel regarding duties, responsibilities, and liabilities. But, I do see Mr. Kanuha raising his hand too. Point of Order: MR. KANUHA: No, it's just a point of order. ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: Go ahead, Mr. Kanuha. MR. KANUHA: Thank you. The original motion was to refer to Environmental Management, but I think we need to make a motion to approve or send to Council with a positive recommendation, and in the subsequent motion we can have to refer to Environmental Management, just as a procedure. We have to have a main motion first. ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. MS. O'HARA: I would like to withdraw the motion that I made and make the main motion of adopting Bill 192. Motion to Approve: Ms. O'Hara moved to recommend passage of Bill 192 on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha. ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. Alright. This has been corrected. Thank you, Councilwoman O'Hara. Thank you, Councilman Kanuha. So, coming back to the conversation, now, as per Councilwoman Lee Loy, are you making a motion to get that done? Page 14 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, because we do have a privileged and confidential communication from our attorneys, and I want to get us into that conversation, so we can make a well and informed decision about how we address the main motion after discussing our duties, responsibilities and liabilities with our attorneys. ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, so hearing that, I'm thinking you're asking for an executive session, Councilwoman? Alright. So, you have made a motion, Councilwoman, to go into executive session? Okay, do I have a second? Vote on Motion to Ms. Lee Loy moved enter into Executive Session in Enter into Executive order to hold attorney-client privilege discussion regarding Session: Bill 192, as authorized by Section 92-5(a)(4) of the (Approved) Hawaii Revised Statutes. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair O'Hara — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles —1. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, we have voted to go into executive session, so, Clerk, please. Recess: At 2:01 p.m., the Acting Chair called for a recess to clear the room. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 2:37 p.m. ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, it's now 2:37 p.m., we're back in session for the Environmental Management Committee meeting. With that, Councilwoman O'Hara. Page 15 EMC -16 October 2, 2018 Vote on Motion to Ms. O'Hara moved to postpone Bill 192 to October 16, Postpone: 2018. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair O'Hara — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles — 1. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: That brings us to the end of our agenda. ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 2:48 p.m., Mr. Richards moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kanuha, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Ruggles, and Chair O'Hara — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. RICHARDS: We stand adjourned. Approved: &601- (�J� Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Chair Environmental Management Committee EO/j m (Date) Page 16