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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2018/11/19 2016-2018Committee on Finance 47th Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96720 November 19, 2018 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at 10:35a.m., ORDER: in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair Ms. Karen Eoff, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Member Ms. Eileen O'Hara, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member Absent & Excused: Ms. Jennifer Ruggles, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Jerry Warren: Bill 210 (Comm. 1162), in opposition. Kekai Kamai: Res. 740-18 (Comm. 1147), in opposition. Floyd D. Eaglin: Res. 740-18 (Comm. 1147), in opposition. Terri L. Napeahi: Res. 740-18 (Comm. 1147), in opposition. Keikai Kamai: Res. 740-18 (Comm. 1147), in opposition. Patrick L. Kahawaiolaa: Res. 740-18 (Comm. 1147), comment. (representing Keaukaha Community Association) CHR. DAVID: At this time, I am closing Statements from the Public and moving on to Communications. FC -47 November 19, 2018 COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Communication 14.46. Comm. 14.46: REPORT OF CHANGE ORDERS AUTHORIZED: SEPTEMBER 16 — 30, 2018 From Finance Director Deanna Sako, dated October 16, 2018, transmitting the above report pursuant to Hawaii County Code Section 2-12.3. Vote on Comm. 14.46: Ms. Eoff moved to close file on Comm. 14.46. Seconded Filed by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair David — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles —1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Before I ask, Clerk, I neglected to mention and congratulate our former Council Member, Dru Kanuha, who is in our chambers this morning. I want to make mentioncongratulations, Senator Kanuha, and we miss you up here. Thank you. I just wanted to make that note for the record. Mr. Clerk, go ahead, Communication 15.42. Comm. 15.42: REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: JUNE 16 — 30, 2018 AND OCTOBER 1 — 15, 2018 From Controller Kay Oshiro, dated October 18, 2018. Vote on Comm. 15.42: Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 15.42. Filed Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair David — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles —1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Communication 114.7. Comm. 114.7: FIRST QUARTER REALLOCATION REPORT: JULY — SEPTEMBER 2018 From Human Resources Director William V. Brilhante, Jr., dated October 18, 2018. Page 2 FC -47 Vote on Comm. 114.7: Filed November 19, 2018 Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 114.7. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair David — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles —1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Communication 1154, please. Comm. 1154: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY CORPORATION COUNSEL REGARDING CONSOLIDATED CASES OF PATRICIA NAKAMOTO, PETITIONER/PLAINTIFF-APPELLANT, VS. JAMAE KAWAUCHI, IN HER INDIVIDUAL AND OFFICIAL CAPACITY AS COUNTY CLERK, DOMINIC YAGONG, IN HIS INDIVIDUAL AND OFFICIAL CAPACITY AS CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWAII COUNTY COUNCIL, CORPORATE SPECIALIZED INTELLIGENCE AND INVESTIGATIONS LLC (CSII), RESPONDENTS/DEFENDANTS-APPELLEES (CIVIL NO. 12-1-0466); AND SITYLA A. AYAU, PETITIONER/PLAINTIFF-APPELLANT, VS. SAME RESPONDENTS/DEFENDANTS-APPELLEE (CIVIL NO. 12-1-0467) From Council Member Aaron S. Y. Chung, dated October 24, 2018. Motion to Close File: Mr. Chung moved to close file on Comm. 1154. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. DAVID: Mr. Chung, go ahead. MR. CHUNG: As requested in my transmittal, I just wanted a discussion from Corporation Counsel. I don't know if it's going to be you, Joe, or someone else in Hilo. This is a matter that arose prior to, I think, anyone of us being on the Council. We read about it. I think we know about it as well. But I just wanted to hear from your department, just to explain what this case is all about and what the decision was. Was that at the Intermediate Court of Appeals or Supreme Court? MR. KAMELAMELA: Joseph Kamelamela, Corporation Counsel. I know that Ms. Martin did a confidential letter, which kind of outlines the case. The case is still yet live. It's still yet pending. MR. CHUNG: What was that again? Page 3 FC -47 November 19, 2018 MR. KAMELAMELA: And so I have our litigation supervisor, Laureen Martin. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, but why don't you just tell us in a nutshell what this thing is all about? I'm not asking you to divulge any kind of information relating to negotiations or settlement negotiations or anything like, just to lay out what this case was all about and what the decision was as the Appellate level. Very simple. MR. KAMELAMELA: In a nutshell, the only thing that I'm aware of is, and people can read about it, is that the remaining issue has to deal with certain statements that were made by former Chairman Yagong, and his statements were basically employees were fired. I don't know how many people he stated. So that's public. I know that there was another party. That was the former County Clerk, Jamae Kawauchi, who was dismissed. MR. CHUNG: Joe, you know, I really don't know much about this case. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, but if I was to MR. CHUNG: You just explained how this thing arose. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah. MR. CHUNG: And then, take us through, you know, what happened at the trial level and then later on at the Appellate level. All I asked for was for was a 15 -minute presentation. MR. KAMELAMELA: There was no trial, you know. It was just filing of motions. MR. CHUNG: There was a Summary Judgment. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, it was Summary Judgement, Motions and—but I think since Laureen Martin was involved in it more than me, maybe she can disclose certain things. MR. CHUNG: Okay. Is she in Hilo? MR. KAMELAMELA: Yes. MR. CHUNG: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, okay. (Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Laureen Martin came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 4 FC -47 November 19, 2018 MS. MARTIN: Good morning. This is Laureen Martin, Deputy Corporation Counsel. Two separate lawsuits were filed one by Patricia Nakamoto and one by Shyla Ayau. They were later consolidated into a single lawsuit. The County filed motions to dismiss in those cases based upon the Workers Compensation Exclusivity Bar, which were granted. The remaining defendants had motions for Summary Judgment, which were granted. The plaintiffs appealed the case. It went up to the ICA (Intermediate Court of Appeals), which it affirmed. Then the Hawaii Supreme Court heard the case and reversed in part. They reversed the claims against the County only as to the defamation and false -like claims, ruling that workers compensation did not bar those claims. They also reversed the claim against the investigator, CSII, finding that there was a duty owed to the plaintiffs. And so now, the case is back at the trial court level and currently pending in mediation. MR. CHUNG: Laureen, you mentioned workers compensation. We did receive this. I only got it this morning, you know, that confidential communication, so I haven't had a chance to really read it. It's a very thick document. But you did mention workers compensation. What is the discussion on workers compensation in this case? MS. MARTIN: So workers compensation prevents employees from suing their employer for injuries that arise out of the course and scope of their employment. So it's very clear that, as you can imagine, like a simple injury. If somebody falls at work, that kind of thing is clearly barred. They can't sue their employer for that injury, instead they get the bundle of worker's compensation benefits. So in this case, some of the plaintiffs' claims were barred, clearly barred, even after the Hawaii Supreme Court's decision, such as negligent infliction of emotional distress. That claim was barred. But the court found that the defamation claim and the false -like claims were not barred. MR. CHUNG: So in that case, I mean, is it somewhat of a landmark decision? MS. MARTIN: Yes, in a sense that there were previous decisions by the Intermediate Court of Appeals that did bar those types of claims, based upon workers compensation, so the Hawaii Supreme Court reversed those decisions. MR. CHUNG: Okay. Anyway, in the meantime I will read your memo, and if I have any questions, I'll talk to you. But I hope all of you realize that this is something, you know, that has caught the interest of both myself, I think, and other Council Members. It really hits home inasmuch it relates to our Elections Division. These are persons who work with us and provide great service to us. I've never discussed this matter with Ms. Nakamoto or that other plaintiff. I don't even know that person. I just wanted to get a little bit more background on this matter, and I really do appreciate it. Page 5 FC -47 November 19, 2018 Now as this thing develops, I'm assuming since it is going back to the trial court, more things will be developing over the next several months. And then we'd like to be kept abreast of it periodically, if that's okay? MS. MARTIN: Sure. MR. KAMELAMELA: Will do. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. Thank you very much. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Anyone else? Mr. Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: Do we have a rough estimate as far as cost, that all this has incurred to the County? MR. KAMELAMELA: I don't know. Maybe my deputy knows that answer to that, as far as cost. MS. MARTIN: Laureen Martin, Deputy Corporation Counsel. Minimal cost at this point because we were able to get that case dismissed early on. And then it was on appeal, so we had to fly over there for the argument. But at this point, the expenses are very low. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Anyone else? Seeing none, okay. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Kamelamela and Ms. Martin. All those in favor of filing Communication 1154 please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 1154: The motion to close file on Comm. 1154 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair David — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles —1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. MR. KAMELAMELA: Thank you. Page 6 FC -47 November 19, 2018 ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. CHR. DAVID: We're moving to Resolution 740-18. But I understand Mayor Kim is in our Hilo office for Bill 210. If it's okay with everyone, I would like to at least call him up after Resolution 740. Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Clerk, Resolution 740-18. Res. 740-18: AUTHORIZES THE OFFICE OF THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HAWAIIAN HOME LANDS (DHHL) FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII TO RECEIVE REIMBURSEMENT FUNDS FOR SPEED HUMP INSTALLATION ON PROPERTY HELD BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HAWAIIAN HOME LANDS DHHL would provide a share of the costs of the County's installation of speed humps along the entire length of Pakele Lane in Keaukaha. Reference: Comm. 1147 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Postponed: November 1, 2018 (Note: There is a motion by Ms. O'Hara, seconded by Ms. Eoff, to recommend adoption of Res. 740-18.) CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I'd like to start with thanking all of my colleagues for postponing this matter. I was traveling at our last meeting. It's the happiest place on earth. So I do appreciate you folks making the space for me to re-engage on this specific issue. This particular resolution, which impacts Council District 3; but I think also has a larger impact as far as all of our trust lands that are located in everyone else's district: Maku`u, Pu`ukapu, Lalamilo, and the rest of our homestead communities throughout the island. The other thing, I do want to thank Kekai, Floyd Eaglin, Terri Napeahi, and Uncle Pat Kahawaiolaa for testifying. It's really unfortunate that they had to come forward in this space, when we all understand the duties and responsibilities of the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands and the commission, and it's really unfortunate that they didn't address this issue when it was brought up before. I do want to take a moment, though, if Mr. Kamelamela or someone from Public Works, just to set some hard -corners about the fundamental understanding on why this particular resolution came forward. And as Mr. Kamelamela comes forward, I did have an opportunity to meet with Mr. Kamelamela, the Department of Public Works, separate and apart. At the end of that meeting, it was clear that this is going to require more time and a lot more clarification. So at the end of this, I Page 7 FC -47 November 19, 2018 will be asking my colleagues to defer this resolution until some future date in February, in which the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands, the Department of Public Works, and the beneficiaries can kind of put their heads together on the right approach for this particular resolution and any future resolution. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KAMELAMELA: Joseph Kamelamela, Corp. Counsel. Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. I just wanted to point out first that when I first got involved, I was unaware that the department didn't even talk to the beneficiaries about this issue so that they can have some clarity as to what the duties and responsibilities of the County is in our duties to the homeowners, the leaseholders, of the Hawaiian Home Lands. Briefly, I had talked a little about the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, which is actually part of our State Constitution, under Article 12, and under the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, any type of improvements is done through funding from the legislature to the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands. I know Mr. Kahawaiolaa had referred to the case of Nelson, which was decided by Circuit Court Judge Castagnetti, you know, which had kind of laid out clearly that the legislature has the duty to fund improvements for Hawaiian Home's land. Our duty, the County's duty, under the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, is to the duty to maintain. I don't think that had been made clear as to what is an improvement and what is a maintenance responsibility. So under our ordinance that we have dealing with streets, there is a section there that talks about speed humps. In that particular street ordinance too, there is a reference for roads that are not County streets. The ordinance does not apply. However, we can get into agreements with the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands under our ordinance to help the Hawaiian Home Lands' beneficiaries, so that's why we were going through the process of trying to get an agreement going on. But again the issue is what is an improvement and what is maintenance? People have different principles as to what is an improvement and what is maintenance. But basically what improvement is, where you need—effectively change the characteristic of the roadway, maintenance is that you're just maintaining the current condition of the existing roadway. An improvement, for example, would be installing a traffic device. There we clearly have a situation with speed humps, we're actually changing the geometric physical characteristic of the road because now the profile is different, and the intent of the improvement is to make the road safer. Page 8 FC -47 November 19, 2018 Whereas, a maintenance issue, issues that we are familiar with, is like filling potholes, repaving the roadway. But you're not really adding anything else because you're just dealing with the existing roadways. I'm not too sure if anyone actually had talked to any of the beneficiaries of these different concepts. I think it's a good idea that we defer it only because I think the Hawaiian Homes department should be engaging in dialogue with the beneficiaries. Okay? MS. LEE LOY: And thank you for that, Mr. Kamelamela. Unfortunately, that's why they're engaging us here, in this space, in front of us, is because they weren't given that opportunity through the Department of Hawaiian Homes and with the Hawaiian Homes Commission. I won't go deep into the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, but we have a lot of people who are in the audience in Hilo who are very well -versed with that Act. As Uncle Pat said, it was clear they cannot serve two masters, and the master they must serve is the beneficiaries. With that, I just want to ask two more questions. Prior to this resolution being formalized, was there a conversation with the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands as far as the shared cost, or like an agency -to -agency collaboration to help improve the roadways? Are you aware? MR. KAMELAMELA: No, I wasn't part of the discussion. I just know that the—word from us is that they should try to get a resolution. MS. LEE LOY: And then you briefly went over the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands and the various quotes that apply. I just want to get to a real hard corner on this one. With street lights, with traffic control devices, even with speed limit signs, is it the basic understanding that it is just to improve the safety of the roadway? I ask that question because there are a number of beneficiaries out there who will make the argument that the speed hump actually addresses the primary impetus of what the duties of road maintenance is, which is to provide safe ingress and egress of a road. I don't want to spend too much time in that, but that's one of the hard corners in this complex conversation. I'm looking forward to all of us kind of getting back to the table with our beneficiaries and then coming forward with a sound resolution. MR. KAMELAMELA: Okay, I'm not too sure if what I'm going to say will make it a little more complicated, but both maintenance and improvement addresses safety. You know, that's a given. It's just that maintenance, like I said, it just deals with the existing conditions of the road, and the existing of the road would not only be the pavement but also when you go outside to the shoulders, the street lights, and all of that. Typically, what happens is once you do the improvements, which includes the roads, the street signs, the street lights, then all—once that gets completed, then the maintenance of all of that gets transferred to the County. Page 9 FC -47 November 19, 2018 So in this situation, you know, we didn't have a speed hump. Some people calls it speed bump, but it's a speed hump. So, that's why it's an improvement and not a maintenance issue. MS. LEE LOY: I'm going to leave it there just because there's so much more. It's just rather unfortunate because speed humps were installed in Pana`ewa without a request for reimbursement. I think if my colleagues could help me and urge the department. Pakele Lane is through a community, but as Kekai Kamae, who was the petitioner for these speed humps mentioned, there is an elementary school in that community. I spoke to Kekai prior to this meeting; they waited two years for these speed humps. It would be a travesty that we couldn't protect our kids because we're barking over some aggregate that they need to get. So if I could ask my colleagues to use the weight of your office to urge the Department of Public Works to help this community and get those speed humps in because the kids deserve it. With that, I'll yield. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Chung, go ahead. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. You know, maybe I heard incorrectly, but was Mayor Kim in that Hilo office? Did he want to say something about this matter? Oh, it's for another one? Okay, I'm sorry. CHR. DAVID: Okay, thank you. Anyone else? I'll go to Ms. Poindexter. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, and I support whole-heartedly what Council Member Lee Loy is saying. So, I would definitely support a postponement. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: I'll echo what the Chair just said. I fully support of what Council Woman is saying. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Anyone else? We'll go back to Ms. Lee Loy. Ms. Lee Loy, do you wish to speak again? MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, a little bit of side -bar there. With that, a motion to postpone Resolution 740-18. Page 10 FC -47 Vote on Motion to Postpone: (Approved) November 19, 2018 Ms. Lee Loy moved to postpone Res. 740-18 to February 4, 2019. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair David — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles —1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, we're going to just move down the line with the agenda. Resolution 752-18. Res. 752-18: AUTHORIZES THE PAYMENT OF FUNDS OF A LATER FISCAL YEAR AND OF MORE THAN ONE FISCAL YEAR FOR A MULTI-YEAR LEASE FOR ONE COMPACT TRACK LOADER WITH AN AUGER DRILL HYDRAULIC HAMMER ATTACHMENT Authorizes the Mayor to enter into a five-year lease agreement for the equipment for the Parks and Recreation, Parks Maintenance Division, at an approximate cost of $1,477 per month. The County will own the loader at the end of the lease. Reference: Comm. 1163 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Vote on Res. 752-18: Ms. O'Hara moved to recommend adoption of Res. 752-18. (Approved) Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair David — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles —1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Resolution 753-18. Page 11 FC -47 November 19, 2018 Res. 753-18: AUTHORIZES THE PAYMENT OF FUNDS OF A LATER FISCAL YEAR AND OF MORE THAN ONE FISCAL YEAR FOR A MULTI-YEAR LEASE FOR ONE CRAWLER DOZER Authorizes the Mayor to enter into a five-year lease agreement for the equipment for the Parks and Recreation, Parks Maintenance Division, at an approximate cost of $2,654 per month. The County will own the dozer at the end of the lease. Reference: Comm. 1164 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Vote on Res. 753-18: Ms. O'Hara moved to recommend adoption of Res. 753-18. (Approved) Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair David — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles —1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Moving on to Bills for Ordinances. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. CHR. DAVID: Bill 208. Bill 208: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 18-68, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30, 2019 Increases revenues in the Federal — 2018 Block Grant account ($266,347); and appropriates the same to the following accounts: Kula`imano Elderly Renovations ($227,467) and Administration, Planning & Fair Housing ($38,880), bringing the total appropriation to $2,694,402. Reference: Comm. 1161 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Page 12 FC -47 Vote on Bill 208 (Approved) November 19, 2018 Ms. Eoff moved to recommend passage of Bill 208 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. O'Hara and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Richards, and Chair David – 6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Ruggles – 2. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Bill 209, please. Bill 209: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 18-68, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30, 2019 Increases revenues in the Federal Grants – Workforce Innovation & Opportunity Act (WIOA) account ($5,547); and appropriates the same to the following 2017-2018 WIOA accounts: Administration Planning ($556); Adult Program ($1,814); Dislocated Worker Program ($1,255); and Youth Program ($1,922), bringing the total appropriation to $1,526,779. Reference: Comm. 1162 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Eoff moved to recommend passage of Bill 209 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. O'Hara. CHR. DAVID: Any discussion, Council Members? Seeing none, all those in favor—sure, Ms. Eoff. MS. EOFF: I'd just like to note that it is good to see grants coming in. CHR. DAVID: Alright, seeing no further discussion, all those in favor please say Ic aye. Vote on Bill 209: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 209 on first reading (Approved) was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Richards, and Chair David – 6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter and Ruggles – 2. Excused: None. Page 13 FC -47 November 19, 2018 CHR. DAVID: Alright, thank you. Moving on to Bill 210. Bill 210: AMENDS CHAPTER 21, ARTICLE 4, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO SEWER SERVICE Increases sewer fees incrementally on March 1 for three years beginning in 2019, as follows: Single Unit Residential: $12, $7, and $6; Multi -Unit Residential: $12, $7, and $6; Nonresidential: $17, $9, and $6; Private Haulers: $15, $10, and $5; and Gang Cesspools: $0, $6, and $3. The Department of Environmental Management requests these increases to eliminate the need for the General Fund subsidy and increase funding for facility repairs. Reference: Comm. 1165 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. O'Hara moved to recommend passage of Bill 210 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Eoff. (Note: At this time, Mayor Harry Kim and Environmental Management Director Bill Kucharski came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. DAVID: I believe Director Kucharski and Mayor Kim is in our Hilo office. Mayor, if you'd like to say something prior to the presentation, you can go ahead, and thank you for your patience. MAYOR KIM: Thank you. Ms. Chairman, if I am out of order here, please, check me on that. If I could make a real brief comment of the issue of Hawaiian Homes. CHR. DAVID: Of course you may. Yes, go right ahead, Mayor. MAYOR KIM: I think if any in the audience remember back in the year 2000, when I first entered, Hawaiian Homes' responsibility and the County's responsibility was a major issue, and also in Keaukaha on the streetlights. That was resolved with a commitment that this County would do everything it can to expedite any differences, and we hold true to that commitment. I assure you that this issue, the speed bump, will be resolved as best as we can, as fast as we can. That is a promise to do that. In regard to that, it was just a matter of itMr. Kamelamela had talked about, in regard to who should pay? We agreed to pay for all costs except for Hawaiian Homes agreeing to pay for the transportation of the material and transportation only, not the cost of the material or the labor making the speed bumps. Again, we'll follow-up on that, and I assure the Council that we will resolve it as soon as possible. Page 14 FC -47 November 19, 2018 In regard to the sewer rate hike, I'll make it as brief as possible. Because those people with the specific information on it will make their own presentation. In reviewing this, it seems like in this very short time, coming to the County Council so many different times for either a tax increase or rate increase. As you know the fuel tax statement was made then, at the time that no fuel tax increase was made for 30 years. So this Council is presented with a very difficult task, always trying to play a little catch-up, and therefore, share the responsibility of always going to the public for an increase. This fuel tax rate increase is exactly the same issue. There has been no fuel tax rate increases. The year 2002, since then laws have been passed in regard to sustainability, especially that of catch-up. This Council again, it is in a difficult position to always present to you and then to the public why this rate increase must be made or should be made. I ask for our staff to present to you all of the information, which makes this required. I thank you very much. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mayor. And now we move forward with Director Kucharski. Do you need a few minutes to set up or are you ready to go? MR. KUCHARSKI: Bill Kucharski, Director of DEM (Department of Environmental Management). I'm ready with the slides. (Note: At this time, Mr. Kucharski provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's office. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 1165.1.) CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Director. Council Members, discussion. Ms. O'Hara, go ahead. MS. O'HARA: First, I want to thank you, Mr. Kucharski, for taking the position that you took, which is the Director of the Department of Environmental Management. This department has been a neglected stepchild of the County for a while, since it was created in 2002 when the last increases were happening. It was just getting its feet on the ground with a new director appointed, had no engineers. It was just in formation. But this has been a neglected area of our County government, and it's such an important essential service that we provide, wastewater treatment as well as, of course, solid waste. So your leadership in the department, and recognizing the path forward is going to involve increased cost and is going to involve raising rates is really an important component to setting policy. I really appreciate that you are in that role. Page 15 FC -47 November 19, 2018 That being said, I know you've alluded to the fact that even with these increases the rates are going to be a lot lower than across the State, and you've given us some comparisons. But I wanted to ask, do the rates that are being charged in the other counties reflect any of the infrastructure costs, which is not built into our sewer rates? What is the reason that infrastructure cost is not? MR. KUCHARSKI: I'm not certain. For example, on Oahu their wastewater budget is in the billions, not in millions. The structural cost, I have not evaluated them. I was told by the Mayor to do that before this, but I did not do that yet. I did do an analysis here. I'm saying if I spent $10 million on infrastructure and new sewer, how many residents would I need to hook up in order to pay that, just the SRF funds (State Revolving Fund), the capital investment over 30 years? It was in the area of 8,000 new hook-ups. I cannot fit 8,000 connections on $10 million worth of sewer. So I'm not certain that—given the size of our County and the spread -out types of population we have, that we could afford to charge the people the full entire 100 percent cost. But having said that, our CII' (Capital Improvement Project) budget is separate. That comes out of the that's where the infrastructure costs go. MS. O'HARA: Okay. Just my familiarity with services like this. Usually, there is an infrastructure cost embedded in the rate setting, so this is a little unusual. But I understand what you're saying, our rural population makes it hard to justify those expansions. That brings me to the point that a centralized sewer system maybe is not the solution for our population. So what other alternatives are we investigating? MR. KUCHARSKI: Well, there are a number of ways to address rural populations. Right now, there are new technologies that are coming out that can produce some very high-quality treatment effluents. However, the main issue you have when you have an individual wastewater treatment system, which is the alternative to a large one, is how do you pass on institutional knowledge from one homeowner to another? If you have an ATU (Aerobic Treatment Unit), the person that puts it in knows what it is, knows what it does, somebody buys that, all they know is that they flush. What we're looking at are some methods to come in and deal with sort of a small sub -regional, like five or six houses together, that would sort of come together and operate a system together. That would sort of spread infrastructure cost among different users. There are some organizations that set these up, and there are communities on the mainland that have—like a homeowner association, they have like a wastewater association for different developments and for four units together. For instance, if you had a septic tank, they would go in and say you are required to have your septic pumped every three years; and every three years, you would have to renew that permit by showing that you had pumped that system to maintain. This is a Page 16 FC -47 November 19, 2018 method that we are examining. I can't tell you that I can get an answer to that and a solution in a year, but it's something that we're working on and looking at. In addition to that, the State has a cesspool conversation workgroup of which I am a member. We're taking a look at just for that specific type of a treatment system, methodologies to close and to do them in a sensible way, and to replace them and upgrade those systems sensibly instead of a cookie -cutter. Everybody is in the cookie type of approach. MS. O'HARA: Thank you for the answer. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Anyone else? Mr. Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Director, for coming in front of us. No one ever wants to talk about raising fees. You and I have been having conversations about waste management for the lastas long as I have been in office. Big Island, we're facing, what, 50,000 cesspools we're supposed to close in the next 30 years? MR. KUCHARSKI: Yes, sir. MR. RICHARDS: One of our big problems, coming from the Mayor, one of the problems about the Big Island is it's big and we have a lot of distance. Going forward, we are all very sensitive to environmental impacts of not doing something; but we're also very sensitive to the economic cost of doing something, so that's where we're stuck. I realize this is a little bitI'm sure you've given it thought, knowing you—given today's current population, 200,000 people, given the, I use the term archaic waste management that we have up to this point, if we look to convert to—and it's going be a combination of everything. It's not going to be all wastewater systems. It's going to be individual systems. Do you have a best estimate in today's dollars? Not that it's going to take 20 years to build all of it, but today's dollars, what would it cost to put sewage waste management in place for—unless we take 50 percent of the population, essentially the coastline population. Do you have any idea what type of capital investment we might be looking at? And I don't mean to put you on the spot, Bill. I don't. MR. KUCHARSKI: They say whenever you make an estimate, it's the only number anybody remembers. MR. RICHARDS: Remembers, yeah. Page 17 FC -47 November 19, 2018 MR. KUCHARSKI: For me, if we deal and come and say we're going to do Hilo, Kona, and all of the communities like Puako and down into Alii Drive and run up Hamakua, we're probably talking $800 to $900 million to sewer. Now, treatment systems are different. I mean, we're already looking at Kealakehe. With the new Kaloko Heights development, we're going to be almost at capacity for that facility. If we come in with the cesspool closures, and that requires sewering, that's going to mean probably another wastewater treatment system or the expansion in Kealakehe. I don't know that that's possible, but we're looking at that. You can add another half -a -billion on to that initial number. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. So what I was asking, for a number of contacts. That's a staggering number. Just for the record, this is off-the-cuff estimate. We're not going to hold Bill for that number, okay? But that puts it in context for us. Because we're looking at—we have a $500 million County budget, and your capital investment that you're talking about is minimum, twice that from what I'm hearing. And again, I don't expect an answer. But going forward, that we're going to have to face these issues. We're going to have to put them forward. We can defer them, but that's not doing the right thing. We're going to have to make some hard decisions. So I appreciate that, Bill, and I appreciate that putting it in context. Again, scale. I understand the dollars aren't exact, but putting it on scale, what we talked about. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Anyone else? Ms. Poindexter, go ahead. MS. POINDEXTER: And thank you for the presentation. I wish back when Hamakua Sugar closed, and we got off of the gang cesspools and we got all those Federal grants and small interest loans that we looked at a wastewater system treatment instead. So now we're going to have to, you know, look at that again. When it becomes 2050, when we all have to get off of our newly -dug cesspools, right, you know, in all of the camps, when we look at all of the camps throughout Hamakua Coast, what happened. But, you know, `O`okala may be fortunate enough because of their Clean Water Act lawsuit. As part of the bargaining chip, is to pay for maybe a wastewater system for our town. Again, maybe a lot of the money may not come from our taxpayers' pockets, but there may be other creative ways to do it like we did in the day when we had to close off, you know, the gang cesspools. So anyway, it's just talking with communities and our community associations to see how we can move forward and working with our Federal government as well. Page 18 FC -47 November 19, 2018 MR. KUCHARSKI: Again, there are some things that are going to have to change, and money is one reason to change, but also, there are better ways to do things that we've been doing. Well, I can't sit here and give good news other than we are moving in the right direction. Hopefully, we can do things that our grandchildren can look at and say, "I'm glad they bit the bullet then." CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Are you done? Okay, thank you. Anyone else before I go—Mr. Chung, go ahead. MR. CHUNG: You know, first of all, I wanted to thank you, Bill, for taking that aggressive step. Somewhat echoing what Ms. O'Hara said, it has been historically a neglected department. Just the fact that we're so behind on this demonstrates that. You know, we've heard this story before, where we're the lowest rate in the State and we're behind. I think no one here can really accuse me of gun-shy when it comes to voting in favor of tax increases: real property tax, fuel taxes, and GE (General Excise) tax. What else we got? Yeah, I voted for them all because there was a need. And there certainly is a need here. There's a big difference between this situation and all the others. And I think Mr. Richards' question was very important. Right now—okay, what's the purpose of sewering? We want to protect brown, recreational waters, right? But only a small percentage of homes or properties are sewered throughout the island. So the issue here is whether we have to continue or should properly continue to subsidize the present program with General Fund monies. I'm going to call it sustaining it with General Fund monies. Given the current situation, because I don't know—does Puna or lower Puna have a sewer system? MR. KUCHARSKI: No, not yet. No, sir. MR. CHUNG: Ka'u, where we hear about that situation. I think basically it's Kona, parts thereof, Hilo, urban core; parts of Hamakua, maybe Papa`ikou; Honoka`a, okay, but aside from that not much else. I think, when we're looking at doubling the rates within three years, and I'm just looking at the residential users right now, I didn't really take a look at the commercial stuff, but when we're increasing the burden on our residents, like doubling it within three years let's look at this way, people who have sewers next to their properties don't derive any benefit from people who don't have them. It's just that they have to pay this cost, so they're bearing the burden of protecting the environment. I think if that's the case, the people who aren't paying that cost should bear some of the brunt too, and that's why I think it's not improper to have this program continue to be subsidized by the General Fund, to a certain extent. I don't mind raising this thing, you know, a dollar here, a dollar there and then going incrementally. But to double it within three years, I think it's patently unfair to those people who are going to have to bear the cost of this program. It's just my feeling. Page 19 FC -47 November 19, 2018 As I said, I'd be more inclined to vote in favor of something that's of smaller increments but over a longer period of time, and it would also have to be tied in to a grander program introduced by your department as to what our expansion plans are in the future, near-term and long-term and how we're going to pay for it. So, I've got to vote against it today. I'm opening the door for some other plans. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. We'll go back to Ms. O'Hara. Go ahead. MS. O'HARA: Thank you, Chair. I appreciated your discussion earlier, Mr. Kucharski, about the infrastructure cost, and it becomes clearer why we're not including those infrastructure costs in this rate fee calculation. Because no, it should not fall upon the small segment of our population that does have sewer when so many of us do not. That is always going to be CIP cost, General Fund, loans, et cetera, that we're going to be paying back. So we are not shifting that infrastructure cost in these rate fee increases. We're just getting to a more realistic rate for the services that we are currently providing, if I am understanding it correctly. What interests me is we had only one testifier come forward, Mr. Warren, who is still sitting here, on this particular bill. So does that mean the public is not aware or responsive to this issue? Have you done public outreach? How do you explain that we have not heard anything from the majority of the public that are going to be impacted by this, including the pump -truck operators? MR. KUCHARSKI: Thank you for the question. I cannot explain public response, but I can say that I would not go to the public in general until such time as this has been provided to the Council. I think that's a respectful approach. So we have not done—we've not had any meetings or outreach on this because, again, until such time as the Council has either passed this forward or rejected it. We would hold off on that. On this, there's going to beI don't think anyone will say that they want dirty water. I don't think there will be anyone that will say, "I want our beaches to be unswimmable." I don't think there's anyone that would say, "I want to make as big a mess as I can." So conceptually, what we're trying to do, I think, is reasonable. The fact to the matter is this is going to impose a hardship on some people, and it's going to be an inconvenience for others. But in spite of that, it is something that I feel as the Director of this department and responsible via the Charter for protecting the environment of the County with managing wastewater and solid waste, that this is an appropriate request for funds to maintain our systems and to have them at the very least operate the way the way they ought to be operating. Page 20 FC -47 November 19, 2018 MS. O'HARA: Okay, thank you for the response. Am I correct that from this point, it needs to go to the Environmental Management Commission? MR. KUCHARSKI: Yes, it's my understanding. Yes, Ma'am. CHR. DAVID: Are you done? Okay. Ms. Eoff, go ahead. MS. EOFF: Would it would be possible, during that discussion at the Commission, that you do explore some other ways to bring money into the department to address all of our concerns? But I noticedI'm kind of going where Mr. Chung started this. I got a littleI was already thinking about why, because Mr. Warren brought it up, why people on gang cesspools are being charged the sewer fee when they're not hooked to the sewer? And I see you have a special category for gang cesspools. MR. KUCHARSKI: Yes. MS. EOFF: Is it possible that there could be—because you collect this money. It doesn't go to the General Fund, and that's one of your goals, is to not be taking any money away from the General Fund in your operations. Is it possible that another category could be created, where the general public does get a fee? A small fee just to pay into this program without there are not many connected to the sewer or a gang cesspool, but just to spread the burden more fairly into the general community. MR. KUCHARSKI: First, I'll answer the gang cesspool fee is to maintain that system. Not to treat, but just to maintain. If there's a blockage in the system, Wastewater Division has to have personnel to go out there and repair the blockage, if there's line breakage to repair that line. Until such time as that is closed, which is the reason that fee is well -below that of someone connected the sewer. That's the first. Second, I am more than happy to have alternative funding sources other than on the direct user, but that is at the discretion of Council. That's not something for me to say, "Put a fee on people not connected to the sewer." I'll take the resources. If that's what the Council wishes to do, I'm more than happy to replace the dollars that are on the users. MS. EOFF: Yeah, I'm not saying what or how to accomplish it. I like the ideas that you would be putting forward. I wonder if this is a discussion that could take place among commissioners and yourself before we look at this. MR. KUCHARSKI: What isn't obvious is that there are number of private systems throughout the County. They pay. I'm not sure what their fees are because they're already regulated under the PUC (Public Utility Commission). Page 21 FC -47 November 19, 2018 That would be another—putting an additional fee on them is something that's possible. Again, that's not something that I have given much thought to. MS. EOFF: It seems hard to really make it fair, but I guess we're just striving. MR. KUCHARSKI: Yeah. One thing on the sustainability, I checked with EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) and they could not give me a definition whether that meant infrastructure or non -infrastructure. They're not even certain, so it's not a hard and fast rule when they say it has to be sustainable. MS. EOFF: Oh, I see. Your directive. MR. KUCHARSKI: Other jurisdictions may or may not. They may have their City Council or State pay for their infrastructure. EPA doesn't have a hard and fast. It's a very nebulous definition. MS. EOFF: But that would make a big difference, right? Okay. Well, thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eoff. MS. EOFF: And I do appreciate your efforts to protect our water sources, our ocean. MR. KUCHARSKI: Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eof£ Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: This is just a thought, and it's probably going to take some kind of legislative action. But maybe if the County or counties were empowered to assess a clean water surcharge on every property on the island, whether they're on sewers or not, then it will lessen the burden on the individuals who are on sewers right now and spread the cost. Basically that's what's happening right now, I guess. You know, if you were to capture all of that monies that we're using to subsidize the program and sequester it someplace else, but we're not doing that. That would be a fairer program, I think. It's going to get more people riled up but at least it's much fairer. Just a thought. But it's probably going to require the legislature to give us that power. Thanks. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Well, I'm going to Ms. O'Hara one last time before I entertain a motion. MS. O'HARA: Okay. Just a quick question. What Mr. Chung just said made me think. Our property tax dollars are allocated to the services: Police, Parks and Recreation. I know sewer that is one our property taxes are allocated to. So every property tax dollar that comes in, a portion of that is allocated to Solid Waste and Page 22 FC -47 November 19, 2018 Wastewater, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know what the percentage is, probably too low, but that's what—yeah, that's how it is. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Alright, Council Members, I will now entertain a motion to refer Bill 210 to the Environmental Management Commission and the Director of Environmental Management for review and recommendations. Motion to Refer: Ms. Lee Loy moved to refer Bill 210 to the Environmental Management Director and Environmental Management Commission pursuant to Section 25-2-43(b), Hawaii County Code. Seconded by Ms. O'Hara. CHR. DAVID: Any discussion before we take a vote? No? Well, before we take a vote, Mr. Kucharski, I want to thank you for bringing your presentation to us and explaining difficulties and the benefits basically of this proposed rate hike. I take it that the suggestions from my colleagues here will be taken to the Commission. And when we see you back again, we might get enlightened. MR. KUCHARSKI: And if I could just thank the Council for your patience and your understanding on this, I know this is a very difficult issue. CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much. On that note, Council Members, all those in favor of referring Bill 210 please say "aye." Vote on Motion to The motion to refer Bill 210 to the Environmental Refer: Management Director and Environmental Management (Approved) Commission pursuant to Section 25-2-43(b), Hawaii County Code, was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair David – 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles –1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kucharski. Mr. Clerk, can we move to Bill 211, please? Page 23 FC -47 November 19, 2018 Bill 211: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 18-69, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1. 2018 TO JUNE 30. 2019 Establishes the following program appropriations to the Capital Budget: Roadway Projects (Engineering) ($2 million); Bridge Inspection, Repair, and Replacement Program (Engineering) ($1.4 million); and Local Road Improvements (Highways) ($3.4 million), for a total of $6.8 million. Appropriates the fuel tax revenues established by Resolution No. 212-17. Reference: Comm. 1166 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Poindexter moved to recommend passage of Bill 211 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. O'Hara. CHR. DAVID: And I believe we have Mr. Aaron Brown, DPW (Department of Public Works) Business Manager, in our Hilo office for any questions. Mr. Brown, would you like to come forward and give us a brief rundown of the contents of Bill 211? (Note: At this time, Business Manager Aaron Brown came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. BROWN: Aloha. CHR. DAVID: Aloha. Good morning. MR. BROWN: Good morning. Thanks for having me. So Bill 211 is kind of a standard bill that gives us appropriation to—we collect the fuel tax revenue that comes in every year. We need an appropriation to go ahead and then utilize these funds for, you know, in our paving and engineering operations. So, this is just the bill that gives us this appropriation to do so. We do this every year. This fuel tax ordinance that's created from this appropriation is good over a two-year period, so it'll be from 2018 to 2020. Based on consumption numbers, we were a little bit ahead of consumption before the lava even happened. Then after the lava event, we were a little bit below our expected consumption levels for fuel tax, so it's kind of been evening out and consistent with the ordinance that we did last year. So over this two-year period, we're hoping to collect $6.8 million again for our road paving and our engineering projects, where we utilize fuel tax. CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much, Mr. Brown. Council Members, do you have any questions for Mr. Brown? Of course you do, Mr. Richards. Go ahead. Page 24 FC -47 November 19, 2018 MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Brown, thank you for being here, right before us. MR. BROWN: You're welcome. MR. RICHARDS: On this, it looks like the allocations for local road improvements is based upon a percentage, which is based upon the total percentage of County roads in each district. Is that accurate? MR. BROWN: Yes, that's exactly right. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, and previously we've had conversations about actually seeing a list of which roads we're going to be getting attended to, specific. Is that still forthcoming? MR. BROWN: Yes, and we are pretty close to having a very new and updated list for you guys. It should be here very shortly. MR. RICHARDS: Is that going to be our Christmas present? MR. BROWN: Yes, it will. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, terrific. I'm not sure if you have the answer to this, or maybe Deanna, from Finance. Approving this, does this change our annual budget for the County at all? Or is this reflective of—the money is already appropriated? (Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: Good morning. Deanna Sako, Director of Finance. MR. RICHARDS: Hi, Deanna. MS. SAKO: Hi. Just to clarify, this is actually all the money—it's not going to change the total budget. It's just actually appropriating the money that we transferred to the Capital Project budget so that they can go ahead and do those projects. MR. RICHARDS: So the current County budget, is what? MS. SAKO: Well, since the last amendments, I haven't gone and looked. But we're still at, roughly, the five hundred and some million. So the total budget isn't going to change. This is just taking the money that's already in the Capital Project Fund and appropriating it to several projects so that they can actually spend it. Page 25 FC -47 November 19, 2018 MR. RICHARDS: Okay, so this isn't touching that other fuel tax collections from the GE surcharge that we approved, correct? MS. SAKO: Right, none of that. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Anyone else? Ms. O'Hara, go ahead. MS. O'HARA: I just wanted to follow-up on what Mr. Richards said, about the upcoming list of road repairs. Mr. Brown, you said that's a Christmas gift. Is this something we're going to expect next week, or you said it's coming soon? MR. BROWN: I'm not sure I can promise a week, but I'm pretty confident that by the Christmas time we should have an updated list with cost estimates that we can share. MS. O'HARA: Okay, thank you for that. You said that consumption's down a bit, and it's hard to analyze with the numbers that are in front of us. We were at a point where one cent of fuel tax was generating about $800,000 in revenue. Where are we at as a result of dip in consumption? MR. BROWN: The first two or three months right after the lava event, we were below. I didn't calculate the consumption to the person increase. I didn't really look at it like that. I looked at it as an overall revenue, overall consumption in gallons, looking at the different types of fuels. We were coming in below our estimated—or sort of the average over the last 16 months is kind of what I look at. We look at market trends. We look at the average consumption over different timeframes, and we were below that. Not a great deal, but we did come down a little bit after the lava event. And then, we've slowly been coming back up. There are small cyclical up and downs through the seasons as well, and we're seeing that same kind of small ups and downs. But it looksI think we will recover. Because we were a little bit ahead before the lava event, I think we're going to be, you know, knock on wood the market stays stable. We should come in around the $6.8 million is what we're hoping. MS. O'HARA: Alright. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. O'Hara. Anyone else before we take the vote? No? Alright, thank you, Mr. Brown. MR. BROWN: Mahalo. CHR. DAVID: All those in favor of approving Bill 211 please say "aye." Page 26 FC -47 November 19, 2018 Vote on Bill 211: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 211 on (Approved) first reading was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair David — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles — 1. Excused: None. ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 12:20 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Lee Loy, O'Hara, Poindexter, Richards, and Chair David — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Ruggles — 1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Finance Committee is adjourned. Mahalo, everybody. Approved: aile MeWkos vid, Chair Finance Committee MD/na f - Z�a le (Date) Page 27