HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2019/07/08 2018-2020Committee on Finance
14th Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
July 8, 2019
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at
ORDER: 1:07 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair.
ROLL CALL -
Present: Ms.
Maile Medeiros David, Chair
Mr.
Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Vice Chair
Mr.
Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms.
Karen Eoff, Member
Mr.
Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
Ms.
Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms.
Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Ms.
Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Ms.
Rebecca Villegas, Member
CHR. DAVID: Welcome, everyone. Before we get started, I would like to
announce that parking meters need to be filled in two hours from when you got
here, just an announcement for everybody to be mindful of that. And today, for
today's meeting we are handling this a little bit different. We are going to ask for
the presentation from Mayor Kim, and then after the presentation we will have
public testimony.
At this time, before we read the communication, it was requested to open up with
our meeting today, that a short `oli (Hawaiian chant) be presented. A pule
(prayer)? Okay, thank you very much.
(Note: At this time, members from the public opened the meeting with a
pule.)
CHR. DAVID: Mahalo I thank you for that opening as we sit here to discuss a
very sensitive matter for all of us. Be mindful that we are here to be very
respectful and to honor each and everyone's opinion in this matter, and I ask that
we all be mindful of that before we start. So, Mr. Clerk, can you please read in
Communication 342, please?
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
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July 8, 2019
Comm. 342: REQUESTS A REPORT FROM COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS REGARDING
THE EXTENT OF COUNTY AGENCY ACTIVITY ON MAUNA KEA
From Council Member Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, dated June 19, 2019.
Motion to Close File: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to close file on
Comm. 342. Seconded by Mr. Richards.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Aloha. Mayor Kim, could you please start us
off and give us an update of where we're at and anything else that you have of
importance for us today? And then, thank you for being here. I appreciate it.
(Note: At this time, Mayor Harry Kim came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MAYOR KIM: To tell you truthfully, I didn't come prepared. I prefer to just
come and say what's on my mind. When you said, "Anything else," we could stay
here a day or a year and not cover everything else. I guarantee you that. What I
would like to make clear is what my position is, and the Police is here in regard to
their position and their responsibilities.
Before I became Mayor—you know, we had election as you know, and I was
elected in the primary. Right after that primary election was held, and which I won
the election, or lost the electionanyway, the Rotary Club of Kona called me to
say, "We don't invite politicians to make a presentation until election is over." So
as soon as it was over, they called me to come to Kailua and just to ask questions
about what my positions were on various things. I went there, and like now, just
basically to answer any questions they might ask.
One of the questions was, "What is your position on Mauna Kea?" As you know,
the County government of Hawaii administration has no legal authority over the
Mauna Kea issue. I didn't give it much thought, so I dwelled into what I felt about
Mauna Kea. And I realized then how very, very careful I must be because every
word will be interpreted in a way that people hear it. I remember using the word
developing Mauna Kea to be a symbolic of a certain kind of "park."
With that, sometime after, I went to Royal Order—mot Royal Order, but Office of
Hawaiian Affairs. I remember one the people who did not like what I said,
accused me of wanting to make Mauna Kea into an industrial park, and said so. I
tried to explain I used the word "park" as a symbolic of what I thought Mauna Kea
should be, meaning national park. As you all of you know, national park is
protected by laws, to be maintained a certain way, and that's what I meant. I'm
just saying that long intro into how careful I need to be of every word I say. So
this I would say very carefully, and if you have any questions on it, my position,
please, I ask of you to clarify or stop me.
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July 8, 2019
You know, the County government has no land jurisdiction of Mauna Kea in
regard to the lease of the lands or the policies of the land that is governed by
Department of Land Natural Resources because they're responsible for all city
lands with the Governor, and from thereafter, it is of the leases given out by these
two, the Department of Land and Natural Resources and the Governor. The
County government is nowhere even mentioned in that.
I think you also know that the problems of Mauna Kea became quite evident, and I
know before that also. But when the Legislative Auditor's office did a
management report in 1998, and I think you know that all of the scopes were built
almost prior to that.
My involvement on Mauna Kea, because of that simple presentation of a rotary
club in Kona, of what I felt about Mauna Kea, it made front page, I remember, the
very next day of West Hawaii, and a front page of Tribune Herald. Very shortly
after that, the public television called me in Honolulu to talk about it. I had
nothing in writing before that.
And it's after thatI put this in this writing. Because the Governor asked me in
regard to what is, and what is my position? I will state this, so you all understand,
none of this has one word of input from the state government of Hawaii. None of
it has any input from the county government of Hawaii. Matter of fact if you talk
to my cabinet, they will tell you that what I'm reading, or have read, or stated in
public is a personal thing and does not reflect the cabinet to be involved and take a
position on this at that time.
This is what I'm going to read. May I? I tell peopleI wrote every word in this.
It's only one page, really; the back page is initiatives. And look how short it is,
double-spaced. Took over 110 drafts, believe it or not. I'm not kidding. Go call
Martha, my secretary. Over 110 drafts for this because I wanted every word to
reflect what I felt. Also within this, I wrote every word, but every single thing I
felt and every single idea came from people that I talked to from past and present,
mainly past. And it reads—and I'll put pronouns of it, "my" but it's not in here.
(Note: At this time, Mayor Kim read his written document entitled
Vision for Maunakea. The document is made a part of the record. See
Comm. 342.7.)
MAYOR KIM: That's what I put forward as my dream of Mauna Kea. I've spent
more time on this over the weekend, and I think most people spent 40 hours in a
week of working, of talking to various people because I know what is coming
forth.
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For the past two years, I have tried every which way I can to see how we can make
this bear fruit. So I told the Governor I was going to come to you this afternoon. I
said all of these things are waha (mouth). There's a lot of anger up there that we of
not Hawaiian don't understand. Because it goes back to 1893, all the subtleties
that we did to the Hawaiian people of real, and as I said, very hurtful.
I said if I am going to go before you the Council, let these words be more than just
words. Let it be a commitment for the Hawaii people, the government of Hawaii
people who are in control, to finally make certain recognitions and make certain
changes. I wanted to come here today, as I've gone to other groups, that we can
work toward this.
The issue is not Mauna Kea, for me, and just the telescope. The issue is the whole
Hawaiiana issue. I am very, very proud for—none of you are near or as old as I
am, but that's okayI'm very proud that this past year, even this opening of this
Council meeting, some of you must come from a time when this was not true.
Every graduation that I went to this year, every single one, from the Community
College down to the smallest one in Keaukaha, where there were only five
graduates is opening up with a tribute and a respect to the Hawaiian culture in their
way. There was a nice, beautiful one of Hilo High School or Community College.
You go to all openings—we never had that in my time. Never.
I am proud of the university. As I told the Board of Regents and the President,
there was a time I remember when I first became Mayor in 2000, that's not that far
away, where the presentation there was less than 50 individuals of teenagers and
below that could speak Hawaiian. And look at this now, because the University of
Hawaii, the only institution that provides graduate work in Hawaiian, or the
indigenous language. Look at the Hawaiian language immersion school, now we
have thousands speaking that language compared to what it was. But above all,
the kind of recognition they give in things that they were never given, that's what
this was all about.
I have the Governor's permission to tell you and whoever listens that they will
commit to go over the proposal here in regard to management of the ceded lands of
Mauna Kea as a start of management. To bring in an umbrella type organization to
study how that can be done. I wish I could have had the time to put it in writing,
but I will because I'm tired of waha, too. That they will create and formulate an
umbrella type organization, made up of people like OHA (Office of Hawaiian
Affairs), who is at time suing the State for mismanagement. Of Royal Order of
Kamehameha to be part of that, or Lili`uokalani and others. Not just the
Governor's Office. True, the law says the Governor's Office and Land and
Natural Resources; but the appointment of the head, there is a Governor. So you
might as well just say one.
Let's take—real example of the complaints that all of us have heard of land
division in regard to Hawaiian Homes. As I told the Governor, "Take a look at it,
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July 8, 2019
Governor, look at what we have done." We, mean collectively. None of you,
none of the audience, and definitely, no none of me, but people who have been
buried long time ago. How many of those lands are just junk lands?
What is to stop the State government to really working with OHA to see what kind
of exchanges or purchases, or gifts can be made to make better lands expedite?
The giving of the lands to those so much in need. I have his commitment.
I spoke to Mr. Ayla this morning. I'm going before the Council. Give me
something instead of waha, that we have learned, instead of saying we'll make
things better. I wish I could stand before you and say this is the County
government's position, but obviously I cannot. I did it because I was asked to put
it in writing.
I believe of every single word as I wrote here because I wrote it; and I wrote it
because of the feelings expressed to me by my hanai family, et cetera. We have
got to get better. This is not about Mauna Kea and the 30 -meter scope. This is us
and about the people and the people of this land, the most precious and beautiful
place on God's earth. Thank you.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Excuse me, we'd like to keep the applause down,
after anyone testifies. I would appreciate.
MAYOR KIM: Can I show you something? I'm going to pass it around.
CHR. DAVID: Sure, Mayor.
(Note: At this time, Mayor Kim displayed a symbol of a heart photograph
on Mauna Kea. The photograph is made part of the record. See
Comm.342.8.)
MAYOR KIM: That's a picture of the heart of Mauna Kea. I saw that for the first
time, maybe 50 years or so ago, as I was being driven up Saddle Road. I had to
rest a junk car. It was a beautiful day, and I saw that. I said and I wrote it down,
"What a beautiful symbol of a heart." At that time, I wrote it represents the
warmest and the beauty of the heart of the Hawaiian people. That heart there was
formed by two eruptions. The first, 60,000 years ago, and the second one after
that, 6,000 years ago. It looks like a depression, but what it is, there's a pu`u. I
was hold that as a symbolic of what I feel.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo. Thank you. I appreciate that you
have a viewpoint, and many people in our community have viewpoints, as well.
Everyone has a different viewpoint, and that will never change. There will always
be different viewpoints across the scheme of whoever is talking. That's normal.
But everyone has a value to their viewpoint, and everybody is important. Maile
said that earlier. I said it to my kids the other day, that everybody has values, and
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July 8, 2019
everybody is important. So we have to listen to everyone, and that's why we're
here.
I have some questions, sir. I have to keep this on a County level. This is beyond,
you knowI'm going to try and stick to a County level because that's who we are
and that's what we're doing here.
MS. POINDEXTER: Not to be disrespectful but, Madam Chair, should we listen
to? Because I don't think we are in the discussion right now. We are doing
presentation first. Or are we going to start doing discussion?
CHR. DAVID: He's actually going to take charge of asking the—the reason why
we're here today is to get a presentation on the fiscal role of the County. They're
going to answer his question. We're not going to discuss yet because he's going to
get answers to the communication, the subject matter of the communication.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay.
CHR. DAVID: But no one else is going to be asking questions until after they do
their presentation.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay.
CHR. DAVID: He can just ask the administration for—generally—
MS. POINDEXTER: It's for clarification?
CHR. DAVID: Clarification of our financial responsibility, according to what
MS. POINDEXTER: So we can get into
CHR. DAVID: Yes. Thank you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So you mentioned that we do not have
jurisdiction in regard to Mauna Kea. Does that apply to the Mauna Kea access
road that we maintain currently?
MAYOR KIM: As we said, we do have the responsibility and agreement that we
maintain the access road. I'm sorry, that road belongs to the State.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. But as far as jurisdiction, the State
lands and Department of Home Lands we do not have jurisdiction?
MAYOR KIM: That's correct.
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MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And that begins atas soon as you leave the
highway?
MAYOR KIM: Approximately 26 -mile marker or so.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. If there was an emergency on
Mauna Kea, speaking on behalf of public safety, I would assume that the County
would not hesitate to respond.
MAYOR KIM: Not at all. As we have in the past, many times whether it be an
individual skiing or anything else.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: What is the mechanism that allows us to
work within that jurisdiction, although it is not our jurisdiction?
MAYOR KIM: I'm not sure how I can answer that, except there is no jurisdiction
when it comes to government, of how government responding to people in need. l
don't think there's any limitation or place. Unless the property owner, you know,
won't allow us in there. Now, that could possibly be a different ballgame, but I
don't think even in that. If there was a decision made by Fire or Police, if there is
an emergency, I think they can just go in and have him and turn his back there.
But I'm pretty sure that has been asked many times.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Can the County close off access to the
Mauna Kea access road or to Saddle Road? Is that something that we can do? Is
that something that the County can do or the State?
MAYOR KIM: I think in the state of emergency, we can. I'm thinking of many
times of private roads, or county roads, or state roads, or federal highway, we have
closed because of some kind of emergency. I'm sure if the emergency occurred,
through the State Emergency we can do that, or the Governor can do that.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Speaking to jurisdiction, it was
apparent that we had County police officers there a week or so ago. I'm not going
to sugar coat this. This is going to be a long project. There are two sides, and
there's a neutral side. I mean, there's many sides on this. So as we are looking at
a long project, I have to ask questions about how—our personnel, are there? And
that's why I'm asking about jurisdiction.
There's a cost associated with that for the County, and I'm wondering about that
cost. That's why I asked you here today, Chief, to give us some clarity on what
those costs are going to be, how we keep track of these. So if you wouldn't mind
coming up and helping me with some of these answers.
MAYOR KIM: May I close with something?
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MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes. I'm not quiteI have a few more. So
I'm going to talk about jurisdiction and access and the funding. And then I have
some questions for Finance, as well. So if you could come up, Chief? Thank you.
(Note: At this time, Police Chief Paul Ferreira came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for being here, Chief.
MR. FERREIRA: No problem. Good afternoon, Council Members. Okay, first
and foremost, I want to let you know that as law enforcement our job is to avoid
any confrontation as much as possible and seek a peaceful resolution. We fully
support Mayor Kim's vision for Mauna Kea. We also support his ongoing
discussions with various entities across the State seeking a peaceful resolution.
However, as the primary law enforcement agency for Hawaii County, we have
jurisdiction over federal, state, and county roads, lands, and the authority to take
enforcement action in certain aspects.
If you close down—if Saddle Road—you're asking about closing down Saddle
Road—anytime there is an accident on Saddle Road, if there's a natural disaster on
Saddle Road, if there's a natural disaster or anything happening throughout the
island, we have the authority in the interest of public safety to shut the road down.
If someone isif the community is in danger, we have the authority to shut it
down.
In the event that we needed to shut down Daniel K. Inouye Highway, all our
planning, all our—what we're looking at, is going to be dictated by what happens
by the protectors, protestors, and will be in the best interest of the community. The
safety for the community; the protectors, the protestors, and the people—the
construction workers, and more so, our law enforcement officers that are on scene.
As far as costs, what are we looking at? Again, that is an unknown. If nothing
happens, there's no costs. If something does occur and we do need to activate,
there's going to be a cost associated with it. Are we prepared to go out and
respond to this event and respond to regular patrol duties? Yes.
As you saw within the volcanic eruption in Leilani Estates, we shifted our officers
in two districts to 12 -hour shifts, which allowed us to place officers in the field at
the volcanic event, as well as placing them out on the road during their daily
operations. Would this happen in the same sense? Yes, we would have to go to
12 -hour shifts. Which districts would be affected? Could be the entire island,
depending on what the numbers we need.
You're asking about how we're going to keep track of it? Same way we keep
track of any large-scale event. We keep a separate tally; this is what is costing the
County outside normal operating hours; for overtime, for salaries and wages, what
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have you, for equipment if needed. Is that reimbursable? Possibly, maybe not. I
don't know. Is some of it coming from the State? More than likely. Is some of it
coming from the Federal Government? I don't believe so. This is not a FEMA
(Federal Emergency Management Agency) activation of any type, so I don't
believe that would come into play.
Are there going to be costs associated with just us responding or taking care of just
a normal day-to-day events that happen, that can occur? Not just by one
movement, but on the long term? Like Mayor Kim said, "This is a long-term
vision." It's not something that's going to end next week or next month, or next
year. This is a long-term vision. It's not only about TMT and Mauna Kea. It's
about the Hawaiian sovereignty movement. So again, is there costs associated?
Yes. You asked me for specifics. I don't have numbers until the event actually
unfolds. I hope I answered some of your questions.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So officers can be—you know, it will be as
needed, and we're not sure where they're going to come from. Where is this
separate tally of costs? How is that?
MR. FERREIRA: Once we activate officers on—like say, for instance, what we
did in the Leilani Estates area, we keep a separate timesheet, indicating what the
costs are associated with that event. What it's costing us for the officers who stay
on the roadblock, what it's costing us to have the officers patrol in the area. Also,
what it's costing us to back -fill the 12 -hour shifts in the Hilo district or the
Hamakua district that we took officers from. Same thing would happen in this
situation.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So I have to ask, is there a plan to permitting
and using County resources as security once construction of TMT begins?
MR. FERREIRA: Our role in this is to ensure, again, public safety and community
safety. We're not going to be securing the mountain. We're not going to be
providing security at the job site. We're not going to be providing security at the
construction site. Our role is to ensure that the roadways will stay open.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I have to touch on, though, that the roads are
not our jurisdiction, is what we
MR. FERREIRA: If you impede ingress, egress from any road, State or County, it
becomes our jurisdiction.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then, do we know what State agency
would reimburse us for these expenses?
MR. FERREIRA: It would be the State of Hawaii.
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MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I am worried too about all members of our
County. So, we have both Police and we have both protectors. Are the police
officers given a choice in the matter as if they want to work these shifts or not?
MR. FERREIRA: No.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So it's regardless about how they feel about
it, and they must.
MR. FERREIRA: We don't take a position, as far as law enforcement being pro or
anti, but we do have to do our duty. We did take an oath of office to enforce the
laws of the State of Hawaii and of the United State Constitution, so they will be
required to enforce the law. Otherwise, what's the difference if they decide that
they're anti -gay, LGBT human (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender), and
they don't want to work, or they don't want to take the complaint? What's the
difference if they're anti -abortion and they say, "Okay, I'm not going to treat this
case?" They don't have that option.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Alright, I guess it's not so much for the for or
against it. It's just whether they want to take on the extra duty. I worry about
them driving back down. The same way I worry about anyone back down the
mountain in the middle of the night.
MR. FERREIRA: Unfortunately, it's a price that we pay as officers when we took
the oath, that we will work the extra duties.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Has there ever been—this is going to shift
back to the Mayor—has there ever been legislation that was passed to allow these
expenses to occur that sits within our County?
MAYOR KIM: I'm sorry, sir, can you repeat that?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Has there ever been any legislation that was
passed before County—before the Council that allows these expenditures to occur
with or without approval?
MAYOR KIM: I cannot think of any time law enforcement has more than a few
times gone past. Some of you are very actively involved, ensuring some kind of
funding support while it was occurring, but not—specifically for law enforcement
now. But I would say this, I've already talked to the Governor's Office in regard
to if this is going to costs us, you know, who I'm going to come after to beg.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And this stems from two areas. One, I had
a lot of constituents come to me and ask me to ask these questions, and I have to
beI like being the conduit for that. That's my job.
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Secondly, my wife and I visited the mauna as our schedules permit. Two weeks
ago we went up to see the stars and breathe a little bit, and when we got to the top,
the Visitor Center was closed. The normal telescopes weren't in operation, so you
can't watch. There was no one there offering any information. I watched some of
the visiting families who don't speak English stumble out in the dark. I saw a
five-year old fall in the ditch on the side of the road. I had a security guard yell at
them, over us, to get out of an area that wasn't very clearly marked off, and I
watched this happen.
Besides it disturbing the peace and what you go there for, I did not get a sense of
anything that would even resemble aloha being offered on that mountain. It was
not present, and that disturbs me. Because at the core of all of this, this is our
County. And whether you are pro, whether you are con, whether you are neutral,
whether you are visiting and you just drove two hours to the top of Mauna Kea,
that is the experience that was given, and that worries me.
So this really comes back to how are we ensuring the welfare and safety of anyone
who is on Mauna Kea. Because it doesn't matter what side we're on, it just comes
down to how we take care of the people who live here o are visiting. That is our
responsibility.
MAYOR KIM: As you're speaking, sir, because of my past jobs, I swear to you,
hundreds of past times because—mainly Civil Defense, I wish we could be better -
manned or do a better job, whether it be a Waipi`o Valley drowning, or eruption
site, or anything. Management of the mountain is strictly under the Office of
Mauna Kea Management, as far as below the summit area of the scope. I know
like everything else there will be questions of manpower time to do it.
I have a lot of dreams about this island. One of them that I'm looking at right now,
as you may have read about it, making Hilo Bay beautiful again. Of clean water,
so it could be a place where the old Hawaiians had hukilaus.
The thing that I wrote about Mauna Kea is of a cultural treasure of management,
also. To change the management area; to make it open to make sure that
personnel—as best as possible. It's a huge, huge area as you know. We have
individuals who have been lost up there and to this day have not even found the
body. That kind of danger will always persist when you have God's way of calling
people to admire beauty, and they're not careful.
One of the visions in regard to this cultural treasure is toand I don't have the
brains to say how to do it or what to do. These are all the things that task force
will have to be created. You know, what kind of programs, what kind of controls
for their safety has to be done.
But yes, no one is going to deny. Just like, yeah—we had in the paper recently
some people who had the audacity toI was going to call them skateboards, but
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they weren't skateboards. Whatever they did, you know, they disrespect.
Naturally, you want programs that can control those people better. Nobody is
going to deny that.
Because of your question, that's one of my so-called pipedreams. That this
cultural treasure will be able to be developed for people to enjoy but also respect.
And with the respect comes cautions that we must execute. Right now, if you talk
about those people that went skateboarding, I think the Office of Mauna Kea
Management said, from their viewpoint of where they were—I'll call it
skateboarding, but it wasn't that obviously. They couldn't see. That's why that
occurred. I don't have the idea of what it would take to control it.
I think the biggest complaint of some of your constituents or people you've talked
to is the lack of management of that area. Unless I put a separate category in
regard to management, the whole place needs management. It is a special gift, and
I think this gift can be shared in a good way.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I do need to ask as well, how are we
providing Hawaiian practitioners access or an area to practice? And does that fall
under the County?
MAYOR KIM: Not under the County. But, you know, I know that's an important
thing. I learned a lot. Even at my old age, I learn a lot in regard to how important
certain things are. I remember learning that in 1977, the first volcanic eruption
that I was responsible for. Because a group of individuals from Kauai wanted to
go to a special area in Kalapana, and we allowed it. You learn about those things.
Mauna Kea, that's under the Office of Mauna Kea Management, and I care not to
even try to answer that.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I yield.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Thank you, Mayor and
Chief, for that explanation and being here. I believe now we will proceed with
public testimony based on what you've presented.
MAYOR KIM: Ms. David, may I say this in closing?
CHR. DAVID: Sure, go ahead.
MAYOR KIM: I'm looking at you, Ms. Eoff, because remember way back when
they said Kohanaiki, `O`oma was an impossible mission? Because 14 years of a
battle between developer's right and the people of Kona. That was after 14 years,
as you know. And certain people, you being one of them, stepped up to the plate
in regard to working with the developer. How can we make this, because it is their
private property? I think what was developed because the cooperation of the
developer and the community working together, and you know it wasn't easy, look
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what they have now. I think more than what anybody dreamt that you could have
had, to working together and trying to work on a problem. That's what I'm
working for.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mayor. So we're going to go out to the outer sites
first. I just want to remind everyone that you will have three minutes for your
testimony. Okay, go ahead.
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak regarding Comm. 342, and came
forward when called by the Chair:
Alohalani Dietz-Cermelj, comment.
Diane Kanealii, comment.
Recess: At 1:50 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 2:03 p.m.
CHR. DAVID: I just want to make sure that everybody is treated fairly and
respectfully, which is the intent. This is not a meeting about the sacredness of our
mauna. It is not. It is a financial responsibility question that was raised. And
although we recognize, and Mr. Matt Kanealii-Kleinfelder recognizes, that this
would have brought exactly what we have here today. We're being very, very
respectful. I'm trying to honor what he wants to know in doing his job. And for us
that sit here, not only as Council Members but as native Hawaiians, you speak
aloha, you practice aloha in whatever form you must sit. That is the task for
everybody today. And I thank you so much, Aunty, for doing that because I know
that we can get totally engrossed by the situation. So, mahalo nui.
Right now, we're going to go back to public testimony. Mr. Clerk, what we're
going to do, is at two minutes and thirty seconds Deputy Clerk will sound a bell that
tells you, you have 30 seconds to summarize. We're hoping that this will be able to
allow us to be respectful to everyone, and to give them notice when their time is
getting short. So mahalo, everybody, again. Thank you.
We're going to come back. In Waimea, you had one more ready to testify. And we
will be keeping the timer here. When I hear the bell, if you can't hear it, I will tell
you have 30 seconds, okay? So pardon my interruption at 30 -seconds left. Go
ahead, identify yourself.
(Note: At this time, the Chair directed the Committee to continue with
Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.)
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July 8, 2019
Rama McIntosh, comment.
Kini K. Burke, comment.
Pauline Ke`ala Lee Loy, in opposition.
Cindy Freitas, in opposition.
Billy Freitas, in opposition.
Ivy, comment.
Maxine Kahaulelio, in opposition.
Lili`uokalani Ross, comment.
Dr. Henry Lee Loy, in opposition.
Gene Tamashiro, in support.
Joe Kassel, in opposition.
Clare Loprinz, in opposition.
Shannon Rudolph, in opposition.
Cherie Griffore, in opposition.
Josephine Keliipio, in opposition.
Sean Cash, in opposition.
CHR. DAVID: Right now, we're going to take a seven -minute recess. We're in
recess. Mahalo.
Recess: At 2:50 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 3:04 p.m.
Keo Von Gogh, comment.
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Jim Albertim, comment.
Toby S. Hazel, comment.
Kealoha Pisciotta, comment.
Yvonne Verburgt, comment.
Hanalei Fergerstrom, comment.
(representing Na Kupuna Moku
O Keawe)
Kau`i Trainer, comment.
Shama Dawn, comment.
Deborah Ward, comment.
Dr. Noe Wong -Wilson, in support.
Abalghassem Abraham Sedegh, comment.
Shelley Mahi, in support.
Luka J. Kambic, comment.
Rob S., comment.
Ronald Fujiyoshi, comment.
Stephen Paulmier, comment.
M. Landt, comment.
(representing Mother Matter's
Midwifery Services)
Danny Li, comment.
Susan Rosier, comment.
Kehaulani, comment.
Lindafaye Kroll, comment.
Kalani Souza, comment.
July 8, 2019
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July 8, 2019
Julie Stowell, comment.
Millicent Cummings, comment.
Ruth Aloha, comment.
Piilani Kaawaloa, in opposition.
Pua Case, comment.
Laura Dvorak, comment.
Kristine Kubat, comment.
Luana Jones, in opposition.
Ryoko, comment.
Thomas Arathburn, in support.
Catherine Robbins, comment.
Tom Peek, comment.
Jessica Waia`u, in opposition.
Geoff Shaw, comment.
Cory Harden, comment.
Antje Elsadek-Gerstung, in support.
Rocky Ishibashi, in opposition.
Sharol Awai, comment.
Geronimo Lluberas, in opposition.
CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, I believe that concludes our public testimony session.
I'd like to say mahalo. I know half were, or at least one-third, have already left.
But I really want to express our appreciation for everyone taking the time to come
and express your thoughts and deep feelings.
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Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. We're going to have some discussion
now. We're going to take a short recess because we've been going a long time.
So we're in recess for five minutes.
Recess: At 5:12 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 5:28 p.m.
CHR. DAVID: Right now, I'm going to open it up for discussion. Council
Members, any discussion? We can go with Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
CHR. DAVID: You're welcome.
MS. POINDEXTER: Anyway, thank you, Matt, for bringing this forward. At
first, I was kind of hesitant on whether or not agree with you on bringing this
forward or not. After hearing all the testimony and how it will be televised for the
rest of the public to see, I think it was very well done, and the people of all
Hawaii County needs to hear what was said here during testimony.
We talked about spending the kind of money we're looking at spending. It's
unfortunate that we're using police force to protect the corporation versus using
police force to protect our people, you know, who are there to strongly oppose
what they believe will save Hawaii Island, you know, for future generations. I
think it was in 2015, was it when we went up to the mauna?
CHR. DAVID: I forget.
MS. POINDEXTER: I know several of us; Council Member Eoff, Council
Member David, myself, and Aunty Nitta Pilago went up there to give our
respect. Luckily, we took this beautiful picture in front of the hale that no longer
exists. Needless to say, when I heard that the hale came down, I too felt
disrespected. I'm Portuguese -Filipino. I don't have Hawaiian blood. Like one of
the testifiers said, "This is our kuleana, all of us who live here protecting it."
I'd like to seeI wish government and Governor Ige would focus more on global
warming and caring for our `aina and our ocean instead of focusing on something
as big as TMT that will go down five -stories deep, which is likeI cringe at that
when somebody testified to that. That alone is destruction to me, personally. So I
feel so much more, what I've been watching, you know, with the people on the
mountain trying to protect it.
Our water. I knowI fought for clean water in `O `okala, you know, coming
from the mountains, and the destruction of that. So all I say is the people have the
power. A young man testified, and God bless him, saying that the people who go
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July 8, 2019
up to the mountain and will speak out, they don't represent Hawaii. We do
represent Hawaii. All of us, in everything we do, we represent Hawaii. The
people have the power.
I don't know what else to say because I'm afraid of moving in that direction of
saying, "Hey, yes let the police go." You know, I hear about, "Oh, is the permit
really a legal permit." And if it goes to court, what if it's found out it's not. Here
we're spending—we had approved. I don't even think we even have to approve
the money. I think what Council Member Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder brought
forward was to question the amount of money; what are we using it for?
Are we training with this sound cannon? Are they currently training? I heardI
didn't getI didn't ask the Police Chief or any police officer, but I heard that
they were training and getting reading for what? I don't know. So one testifier
oh, Pua, you had testified, saying, "Go find out. You owe it to us," and we need
to find that out for the people. Because we need to make sure that we need—it's
our kuleana to protect our people. So thank you for brining that forward because I
think we owe it to everyone to find out. In our positions that we're in, we owe it
to our people to find out what they're in store for, yeah? So, thank you. I'll yield
at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Anyone else have any comments
before we? Ms. Villegas, go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: I first want to express a heartfelt thank you, mahalo. It took
such courage, such determination to sit and speak, and share your heart, and share
your spirit, and share your true passion. Thank you for that.
You know, being new to the Council and new to the jurisdictions of County
versus State, versus Federal, this issue has been something that—you know, I'm
grateful for Matt pointing this out because there's been some confusion for myself
and what is in sphere of influence in this role or this position. But the questions
that were raised—the questions that I consistently ask myself, why do we as a
society spend so much time and money studying out in the universe? Which has
value, but we know more about out there than we do about our oceans which are
in jeopardy, being toxified, and polluted, and poisoned. A paradigm shift, as was
mentioned earlier today, we have opportunities for that. We have opportunities to
take care of our land and our people in more reverent ways.
You know, being raised an activist, I'm kind of more used to being where you
guys were today, so this is a new role for me. But I just want you to know that I
feel your hearts. I don't know what or how we can do it in this capacity, but I just
want you to know that I'm excited to explore that, and to find answers and to
serve the people.
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July 8, 2019
My job is to represent the constituents of my district, and District 7 has a very
diverse group of people, and some are pro TMT. But for me, I don't know the
people that own and run TMT; but I know our people, and I know the kanaka
maoli. I'm not of Hawaiian descent. Although I am fifth generation, big haole
girl, but my kuleana is to the people that reside here. My kuleana is to the host
culture and making sure that is protected, and that is held sacred and held in
priority.
When I lay on my death bed people asked me about this when I was running for
office—the best I could say is when I lay on my death bed, I know that I would
never regret saying that I stood beside the people of this island in a decision such
as this, but I know I would regret the other. So thank you for sharing today and
inspiring so greatly. Mahalo.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Anyone else? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
would you take us home?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'd like to say to mahalo to everyone who
came today, and you spent a good portion of your day being here providing
testimony. I know that sometimes that experience does not seem right, or the way
that it lays out can be discouraging. But what we did today was we practiced
what this chamber is here for. This chamber is here so we can hear your needs, so
we can help guide the way for our County. I look forward to helping however I
can. I need to take care of every person in this County. That's my job. And I
need to make sure that our County is responsible in every way they can be to
those people.
There were a lot of good questions raised today. I have some follow-up to do.
Pua, if I know anything, then I'll let you know. But of all the questions that you
asked, I don't know anything. So, I do have some homework to do. Thank you.
But again, I appreciate everyone who came out today because that shows me
thatI mean, I know you care. It shows everyone that you care. It gives us a
different perspective than what we sit in every day. Aloha. Mahalo, everyone.
CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Eoff, go ahead.
MS. EOFF: Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, andI feel like Ms. Poindexter. I
was kind of worried like what would happen today. Matt was correct; we needed
to hear from everybody. Even though we don't have too much decision-making
power in anything right now. I don't know if we can speak more with the Mayor
about how to move forward.
The Mayor referred to me earlier. Some of you may know me, most of you
probably don't. But back in the late 80s, early 90s, Maile and I actually fought
for maybe 15 years for the rights of native Hawaiians and protection of our public
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July 8, 2019
trust resources. We were some of the movers and shakers. There was a group of
us. But we were some that succeeded in two landmark Supreme Court victories
and legislative victory, to require cultural impact statements for all future
development in the State of Hawaii. We were successful in the PASH (Public
Access Shoreline Hawaii) Kohanaiki case and the Kapa`akai versus the Land
Use Commission.
But I don't understand where the Supreme Court went for this contested case. It
seems contrary to everything that was stated by the court prior. You know, I am
at a loss, where to go from here. I don't know.
But I do know that you—there were asked some really good questions
about—and, Matt, I don't think but I'm not sure whether we have any say so in
what's approved as far as spending on the Police. I think that's an administrative
issue. I guess I would suggest continuing to talk to the Mayor. I saw him a
minute ago, but I don't know where he went. Because he feels and I know others
feel that there's been negotiations or there's been talks that maybe didn't amount
to anything. But maybe we don't stop. Maybe he needs to speak to the right
people.
There was so much said here today, and it was very emotive and very emotional.
I feel sad and kind of scared. So, I don't really know what we'll do now. But I
thank you for the opportunity to at least think deeper.
CHR. DAVID: Mahalo, Ms. Eof£ Anyone else before we close? Okay, my turn.
I want to thank everyone sitting in this room and all those who have left already.
The opinions expressed has really opened at least my eyes, and I know a lot of
members on this Council, because you folks are the ones on the ground that know
how everything works and is working or not working.
So, I really depend on being an activist on the ground in my own right many years
ago. This is a huge, very, very sensitive issue. Much bigger than the two
Supreme Court cases we've worked on. I think somebody said it quite well, this
is like the final frontier on whether native Hawaiian rights are going to be
protected like it was meant to be, and the native people are respected the way it
should be. I hate to see our people disappear. However, we can as Council
Members help to achieve that. I want to say that we will do everything. I will do
everything I can because it's very painful, especially for us who've seen the
mauna in its glory, an unobstructive natural state. That's how old we are.
Actually, I am, so I have something to compare it with. What I'm seeing now
with what's on the mauna right now, I can't bear to look at it from a distance.
I probably think that's a—today was the right time for you to be here. We can't
say we should've done this a long time ago. No, I really believe that there's a
reason why things happen the way it does. So let's move forward, and we'll just
do whatever we can to protect this place.
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Alright, Council Members, are we ready to take a vote on filing
Communication 342? Okay, all those in favor of filing Communication 342
please say "aye."
Vote on Comm. 342: The motion to close file on Comm. 342 was carried by the
Filed following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and
Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
(There were none.)
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
(There were none.)
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 5:44 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn
MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and
Chair David — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
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CHR. DAVID: We are adjourned. And mahalo everyone for coming.
Approved:
c
Ms. Mail e edeiros David, Chair
Finance Committee
MD/na
July 8, 2019
'I .g
(Date)
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