HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PC 2019/06/18 2018-2020Committee on Planning
11th Session
West Hawaii Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
June 18, 2019
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Planning was called to order at
ORDER: 1:05 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz,
Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz, Chair
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member (via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member
Ms. Karen Eoff, Member
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward
when called by the Chair:
Dwight J. Vicente:
Donald Rudny:
Cory Harden:
Jeno Enocencio:
Donald Medeiros:
Abalghassem Abraham Sadegh:
Bill 81 (Comm. 313);
Bill 83 (Comm. 315); and
Bill 84 (Comm. 315), comment.
Bill 83 (Comm. 315); and
Bill 84 (Comm. 315), in opposition.
Bill 83 (Comm. 315); and
Bill 84 (Comm. 315), comment.
Bill 83 (Comm. 315); and
Bill 84 (Comm. 315), in opposition.
Bill 83 (Comm. 315); and
Bill 84 (Comm. 315), comment.
Bill 83 (Comm. 315); and
Bill 84 (Comm. 315), comment.
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COMMUNI-
CATIONS:
Comm. 320
Hanalei Fergerstrom:
(representing Na
Kupuna Moku O Keawe)
June 18, 2019
Bill 81 (Comm. 313);
Bill 83 (Comm. 315); and
Bill 84 (Comm. 315), in opposition.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you so much. Seeing that there are no other
testifiers, I'll be closing public testimony at this time and moving on to our
business of the day. Mr. Clerk, if you could please read in Communication 320.
The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
Communications.
NOMINATION OF ANGELA IANNIDINARDO FA`ANUNU TO THE
HAWAII COUNTY CULTURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
From Mayor Harry Kim, dated May 30, 2019, submitting for the Council's
review and confirmation the above nomination.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: July 14, 2019 (Section 13-4(l),
Hawaii County Charter)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of the
appointment of Ms. Angela Iannidinardo Fa`anunu to
the Hawaii Cultural Resources Commission. Seconded
by Mr. Richards.
(Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor, Rose Bautista
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. BAUTISTA: Good afternoon and thank you very much. I believe we made
communications to the fact that Ms. Fa`anunu is not available today because
she's in Ireland speaking at a conference. And so, we're requesting that perhaps
you could move her nomination with a positive recommendation. And she's
assured us that she'll be back, I think the beginning of July and will be able to
appear at the next Council hearing.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Bautista. Yes, I understand that she is
traveling presenting at a Sustainable Cities Conference. But if you could just for
the record, why don't you read in her nomination report. I don't see a problem
with moving her nomination forward to the Council, and I believe that she will
come before us and answer any questions or make a statement for the record at
our Council Meeting in July.
MS. BAUTISTA: Great, be happy to do that. Actually, doctor
Angela Iannidinardo Fa`anunu, Ph.D., is from Hilo and has been nominated by
Mayor Kim to the Cultural Resources Commission. Dr. Fa`anunu is currently an
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Assistant Professor of Tourism at the University of Hawai`i at Hilo and has
extensive background on land-use and environmental and community planning.
Dr. Fa'anunu holds a Bachelor of Arts in Biology from Middlebury College in
Vermont and a M.S.P.H. from the University of Colorado Health Science Center
and a Ph.D., in Urban and Regional Planning from the University of Hawai`i.
Originally from the Kingdom of Tonga, Dr. Fa'anunu has resided in Hawai`i for
the past 17 years. She generously volunteers her time to our community and has
worked with the charter schools; also, with Hui Makua 0 Punana Leo 0 Kona,
Amy Greenwell Farm, and many more. Dr. Fa'anunu states that she is not a
member of any political party. Basically, that's her background.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Rose. I just have a question. Is she aware
of the monthly meetings, I think every first or second Wednesday?
MS. BAUTISTA: Yes, she is. Yes, she's very aware.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, it seems she's a very impressive candidate. She's
very impressive. I just want to make sure that she's able to attend the meetings
because this body has, for some time now, not been able to make quorum. And I
know you've been working hard to get us good candidates. So I just want to
make sure that she's aware of the expectations that we have of her.
MS. BAUTISTA: Yes, she was made fully aware of that.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, great. Council Members, any comments for the
record? Any objection to moving this forward to Council, at which time we'll be
able to ask any questions of the nominee?
Okay, all in favor of moving Dr. Fa'anunu's nomination forward to the Council
with a positive recommendation please say "aye."
Vote on Comm. 320: The motion to recommend confirmation of the appointment
cApproved) of Ms. Angela Iannidinardo Fa'anunu to the Hawai`i
Cultural Resources Commission was carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
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ORDER OF
RESOLUTIONS:
BILLS FOR
ORDINANCES:
June 18, 2019
MS. BAUTISTA: Thank you.
The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order
of Resolutions.
(There were none.)
The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
Bills for Ordinances.
Bill 81: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-19 (NORTH HILO DISTRICT ZONE MAP),
ARTICLE 8, CHAPTER 25 (ZONING) OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE
1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT
CLASSIFICATION FROM AGRICULTURAL — TWENTY ACRES (A -20a) TO
AGRICULTURAL — FIVE ACRES (A -5a) AT KIHALANI, NORTH HILO,
HAWAII, COVERED BY TAX MAP KEY: 3-5-004:030
(Applicants: Leonard and Marianne Freeman) (Area: approximately 11.57 Acres)
The Windward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for
this change of zone, which would allow the applicants to apply for subdivision of
the parcel and create a two -lot subdivision for estate planning purposes. The
property is located on the northwest side of Kihalani Homestead Road.
Reference: Comm. 313
Intr. By: Ms. Kierkiewicz (B/R)
; and
Comm. 313.1: From Planning Director Michael Yee, dated May 21, 2019, transmitting the draft
transcript from the Planning Commission's May 2, 2019, meeting.
Motion to Approve: Mr. Richards moved to recommend passage of Bill 81
on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Will the applicant and/or their representative please
come forward?
(Note: At this time, Planning Consultant Zendo Kern and applicant
Marianne Freeman came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MR. KERN: Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the Planning
Committee. Thank you for your time. This is a relatively straight forward
application here. The subject parcel is a little over 11 acres. Zoned AG -20.
There's currently two homes on there. One regular home, one additional farm
dwelling, and so the change of zone request is to AG -5 to create a two -lot
subdivision.
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June 18, 2019
Last year we did a change of zone across the street for the Andres', a very similar
situation. This area is comprised of a multitude of different sized lots; two acres,
five acres, ten acres. There's actually very few 20 -acre parcels in this area. So in
one of the areas that was essentially created, the lots were created prior to the
Zoning Code, and then the County came along with the Zoning Code and said
AG -20. So it doesn't really match the area, and so the AG -5 zoning actually fits
in very well there.
State Land Use ag, County water, like I said, two homes there. With the
conditions, it won't increase the density. So essentially, it just allows it to be
subdivided for estate planning purposes. Like I said, pretty straight forward and
I'm happy to answer any questions.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Members, any questions for
Mr. Kern? We also have members of the Planning Department. Hi Jeff,
Christian, Deputy Director Kanuha. Thank you all for joining us. They're also
available to answer questions if we have any. My understanding is that we
reviewed a similar application back in October. Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Zendo, for being here. I ask this
all the time of our applicants. Has the applicant reviewed and agreed to the
conditions of approval as outlined in Bill 81?
MR. KERN: Yes.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. I just want to focus a little bit on Condition G, "Prior to
Final Subdivision Approval, the applicants shall cancel the Additional Farm
Dwelling" permit that's already been recorded. So, based on this, my
understanding is now there's two homes on it?
MR. KERN: There's two homes, yeah. One was the primary farm dwelling, and
the other one is the additional farm dwelling.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay, and then once the cancellation of the additional farm
dwelling permit when you go through subdivision process, that second farm
dwelling will become the primary residence?
MR. KERN: That's correct.
MS. LEE LOY: Perfect. I have no questions. Thank you, Zendo.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Any other questions or
comments? If not there's a motion on the floor to move Bill 81 forward to the
Council with a positive recommendation. All in favor say "aye."
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Vote on Bill 81
(Approved)
June 18, 2019
The motion to recommend passage of Bill 81 on first
reading was carried by the following voice vote.
Ayes:
Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 9.
Noes:
None.
Absent:
None.
Excused:
None.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Motion carries. Bill 81 will move forward to Council
with a positive recommendation.
MR. KERN: Thank you all very much. Have a great day.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for being here. Mr. Clerk, if you could please
read in Bill 83.
MR. HENRICKS: Madam Chair, so we have Bill 83 and 84 which are essentially
related.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: I think typically we would read in both bills; take a motion on
83 then you can have full discussion; vote on 83 and then take on 84 separately
with a separate motion. Is that acceptable?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Absolutely. Thank you for your recommendation.
Bill 83: AMENDS THE STATE LAND USE BOUNDARIES MAP FOR THE
COUNTY OF HAWAII BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT CLASSIFICATION
FROM THE AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT TO THE URBAN DISTRICT
AT PU`U`EO, SOUTH HILO, HAWAII, COVERED BY TAX MAP
KEY: 2-6-008: PORTION OF 026
; and
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June 18, 2019
Bill 84: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-33 (CITY OF HILO ZONE MAP), ARTICLE 8,
CHAPTER 25 (ZONING) OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983
(2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT
CLASSIFICATION FROM AGRICULTURAL — TWENTY ACRES (A -20a)
AND OPEN (0) TO SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL — TEN THOUSAND
SQUARE FEET (RS -10) AND FAMILY AGRICULTURAL — ONE ACRE
(FA -la) AT PU`U`EO, SOUTH HILO, HAWAII, COVERED BY
TAX MAP KEY: 2-6-008:026 AND 2-6-008:027
(Applicant: Edmund C. Olson Trust) (Area: 39.68 acres)
The Windward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation
for this amendment to the State Land Use Boundaries Maps and change of
zone, which would allow the applicant to consolidate and resubdivide the
proposed project site into 51 total lots.
Reference: Comm. 315
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz (B/R)
; and
Comm. 315.1: From Planning Director Michael Yee, dated May 21, 2019, transmitting the draft
transcript from the Planning Commission's May 2, 2019, meeting.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Clerk, and just for the record, the bills were
introduced by request.
MR. HENRICKS: And perhaps since there may be more robust discussion,
maybe we should go for Bill 84 and deal with Bill 83 after Bill 84 has been
disposed of.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Great suggestion, thank you. May I have a motion?
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend passage of Bill 84
on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Richards.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Will the applicant and/or their representative
please come forward?
(Note: At this time, Planning Consultant Sydney Fuke and Planner VI
Jeff Darrow came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. FUKE: Good afternoon, my name is Sidney Fuke, I'm a Planning
Consultant. This is supposed to be like a straight forward application like
Mr. Kern's but it had a lot of twists and turns along the way. I'd also like to,
before going on with my presentation, acknowledge the presence in the Hilo
Office, John Cross, the former land manager for the Edmund Olson trust, and he's
currently serving as the consultant. So he has a lot of background on this matter,
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June 18, 2019
so he'll be able to answer questions that I'm not able to answer or if you would
want to direct any other questions to him.
MR. DARROW: Good Morning, Chair Kierkiewicz and fellow Council
Members, Jeff Darrow with the Planning Department.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you Jeff, good to see you. Alright Mr. Fuke, if
you could take us through those twists and turns.
MR. FUKE: Sure, the twists and turns. It's basically a 40 -acre property. It's
adjacent to the Clem Akina Park and if you're familiar with Dodo Mortuary, it's
on the downside of Dodo Mortuary. It's formally a part of C. Brewer's original
800 lot plan in that area. Back in 1996, C. Brewer was the former owner of the
property; had proposed an 800 -lot subdivision in that area, which encompassed
approximately about 300 acres of land.
Then Brewer sold the property to this family trust called Greer and Greer did not
want to proceed with the development because of the high infrastructure and
related type of costs combined with their desire to use the land more
agriculturally. So they, on their own, initiated to have the State Land Use
Boundary declassified actually from urban back to agriculture. And at the same
time, proceeded to have the Council nullify the existing zoning that would enable
them to do that 800 -lot project.
Along comes Mr. Olson, the Edmund Olson Trust, who acquired the property in
2015, the entire 800 acres plus, and their intent was to use the land primarily for
agriculture activities, which for the most part, is being used very actively in
agriculture right now. I'm sure all of you know who Mr. Olson is. You know he
has gifted lands for the Public Open Space Trust. He has engaged in large-scale
agriculture, both in the Ka`u, Hamakua Districts and also in the District of Hilo.
And he has fostered and nurtured many small farmers by leasing out land as he
does currently right now with a portion of the C. Brewer property.
So anyway at the same time, you know, in keeping with his philanthropic
environmental mode, he still is very concerned for the community. And so he
was looking at trying to create properties that would make them available for
residential house lots. So, for those of you who know Mr. Olson and know of all
of his lands on this island, this is his first residential project. So he's not like a
typical land developer. He's basically a philanthropist though, agriculturalist,
conservationist, whatever—someone who's very concerned with the community.
So he's told me, like everybody knows, he's like about 87-88 years old. He's
kind of coming up there in age. So he said if he doesn't develop it, then
obviously he's going to find a partner to do it. And at the last resort, sell it to
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June 18, 2019
someone who would actually develop the land in accordance with the residential
vision that he has.
So, the original plan was to create of this 40 acres of land; to create like a 29 -lot
residential -AG subdivision. Then we submitted the application in, I think it was
in 2016 or 2017. Then in the discussions with Planning, they're saying, well the
General Plan calls for low density, it's close to town, so on and so forth. Why
don't you guys consider having a little bit more intensive type of development?
So the plan was withdrawn; we started again, and then they created a 49 -lot
subdivision with the mauka portion being one acre in size; one -plus acre in size,
largely because they would serve like a transitional area to the larger agriculture
properties further mauka. And the lower side, which would be adjacent to the
cemetery as well as the Clem Akina Park, would be set aside for 10,000 to 20,000
square foot residential lots.
So we had the proposed subdivision map prepared, submitted it to the Planning
Department. And if you see the map, you'll find that there's roughly about
1.7 acres of land that has been set aside as an addition to the Clem Akina Park.
It's not really like an addition, it's an area that the community has been using
basically for free all these years. So, the subdivision is basically going to kind of
legitimize that historical use of this area and convey it officially to the County.
There was discussion about, like a cemetery. Bear in mind then this cemetery is
not the 39 or 40 -acre area. It's only like a little bit more than an acre of this area
that's a cemetery. And I think it was pointed out by one of the testifiers, it's
adjacent and mauka to the Clem Akina Park. If you look at the proposed
subdivision map, that's exactly where it's at. And so, what we're proposing in the
preliminary layout is not about a one -acre area, but to provide an overly generous
area of more than two acres for this cemetery area. So that's the concept plan.
This thing about this purported violation, I'd like to kind of just summarize what
had happened. After the Olson Trust bought the property in 2015, they did some
land clearing of some Albezia trees in that area. So during the course of the land
clearing in September of 2015, they inadvertently discovered a tomb in that area,
and so the work kind of stopped. Then they had an Archeological Inventory
Survey (AIS) completed, and contrary to what was represented in the public
testimony, an AIS was already done. It was submitted to the State Historical
Preservation Division back in 2016, and no response, so over two years.
So then in September 2016, there was a heavy equipment operator. He was hired
by not only by the Olson Trust but also by one of the tenants, to kind of help clean
up that area. And at that time when the AIS was done in 2016, they had already
identified the limits of where the cemetery was. So the bulldozer operator, you
know, when he tried to clear that area, was well beyond that area. But he had
inadvertently knocked down one or two headstones in that area. And so, that
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precipitated the call to, you know, SHPD (State Historic Preservation Division)
and so on and so forth. So the revised Archeological Inventory Survey was done
then to kind of now reflect a wider area of the cemetery.
Although we didn't have any formal review and approval by SHPD on the
Archeological Inventory Survey, a draft preservation plan was prepared in
February of 2017. And that preservation plan had two components. One was the
burial treatment portion and the other one was the preservation portion. That plan
is done. It cannot be submitted to SHPD until SHPD approves the Archeological
Inventory Survey, but it's been done, waiting around.
So 14 months passed, nothing happened, so in December of 2017, the Land Board
receives an item from SHPD saying that there was a violation, the Edmund Olsen
Trust is going to be fined X -number of dollars. Well, the landowner,
Edmund Olson Trust was not notified of this and so two or three days prior to the
hearing, the Trust's attorney wrote a letter to the Land Board saying that, "You've
got to give us notice." And so at that time, the Land Board removed that item
from the agenda.
So then in January of 2018, that item was also on the agenda and it got pulled off
because there was representation made that SHPD was going to meet with its
attorney and Mr. Olson and Mr. Olson's attorney. So they had a meeting in
January of 2018. According to Mr. Paul Alston, Mr. Olson's attorney, when they
had that meeting in January of 2018, Alan Downer, the SHPD Division Chief
basically said that he'll look into it and get back to you. So nothing happened.
All of 2018, nothing happened.
Finally in 2019, we asked the Planning Department, "What's the scoop?" I mean,
like, you know, we want to go ahead with the rezoning. Isn't SHPD going to
respond one way or the other? So they conferred via email or maybe telecom
with SHPD, and SHPD said, go ahead and process the application. And so, it was
under that kind of notion or understanding, then we had proceeded with the
application. In the meantime, I asked Mr. Alston, who is Olson's attorney, please
check with SHPD and their attorney to find out what's happening. He does in
March, and still no answer. And this kind of like brings us to where we are.
So, the Planning Commission; the department reviews the application, the
commission as well as the director recommends that the application be favorably
considered; and you know, this is where we are. I think like several things that
we'd like to make clear. One is that there's no reasonable person who knowingly
would destroy a cemetery or a burial, and let alone someone like Mr. Olson. To
even suggest that Mr. Olson would want to do, you know, or commit something
like that I think is ludicrous.
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The other thing is, it's not like the applicant's fault. All this delay is SHPD's
responsibility. They should have responded way back in December or January of
2018. And they haven't done it. So why is it now the fault of the applicant? And
lastly, I think, you know, there is this kind of belief that this development will
destroy a cemetery. Not so. As I mentioned earlier, this whole 39- or 40 -acre,
only a portion of it at the corner is the cemetery. The balance of the property has
historically been used for sugarcane and other agricultural activity.
Oh, one more thing I forgot. So like, at the behest of Council Woman Poindexter,
we had a community meeting two Fridays ago. And basically the same kinds of
questions were raised when today's testimony came up. And as a result, I kind of
worked with Council Woman Poindexter to come up with added conditions that
would further address the concerns raised by the community.
One dealt with like, okay fine, you got like an Archeological Inventory Survey,
you got like a Burial Treatment Preservation Plan prepared. Well, you know, like
although it's kind of known in the SHPD protocol that over and beyond that, you
need to have like an Archeological Monitoring Plan. And so we kind of put that
in, so you'll have to have a monitoring plan. And we're also saying that all of
these have to be in place prior to any land disturbance activity.
And the other thing was they talked about flooding. We said, sure, there is an
existing floodway in that area, and we all know that Department of Public Works
has their own standards, and you know, you cannot change where the water
comes in and where the water exits the property. Neither can you increase the
volume. You know, that's all standard, but area residents have said, you know,
we know a lot about this area. So, we then came up with a proposed condition
that would say, okay, after the engineer prepares the preliminary plan, we will
have a community meeting and get your input. And if there needs to be revisions,
so be it, revisions would be made to the drainage system. So that, we believe, you
know, kind of addressed both the kinds of issues that were raised at the
community meeting. Drainage and the adequate protection of the cemetery as
well as potential inadvertent finds for the balance of the property. So if over and
beyond that there's a need for additional meetings with the community, we'll
have to do it, so be it.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Fuke. Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you. And thank you for coming to that meeting.
That was, I think, a very informative meeting for the community. Unfortunately,
I don't think they—they knew that I wanted to come in with some conditions
because during that meeting, as you said when things came up, I asked, can I put
those conditions in? And you agreed to work with me on those conditions.
However, they haven't seen the conditions. I'm going to put the amendment in,
not quite yet because I just want to maybe bring Christian up to the table. Just for
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some questions on—when Mr. Fuke stated that they came in with an application
and it was, you know, one -acre lots, which the community I think are more
agreeable to because it was already ag lots. And like Jeno Enocencio at the
meeting unfortunately you weren't there at the meeting to hear that. That ag
was important in that area, so when they went in for the one -acre ag that was
great. However, it was the Planning Department that told them, "Hey take this
back, and the General Plan says this, so make it more lots." How did that
transpire, were you part of that or do you know what happened?
(Note: At this time, Deputy Planning Director Duane Kanuha and
Planner IV Christian Kay came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MR. KAY: Yes, thank you. Christian Kay, Planning Department. Back in 2016,
I was the Planner assigned to the original application that came in for a change of
zone from Open and Agricultural -20 acres to Family -Agricultural one acre.
When we took a look at the application, reviewed it for completeness and kind of
conformance with the General Plan, and in conversation with our long-range
division, the General Plan indicated that the lower portion of the properties was
set for a medium density urban and the upper portion of the properties including
the entirety of the upper property and then, you know, much farther up was low
density urban.
With that designation, given its proximity to Hilo; given the additional more
intensive agricultural land and uses taking place farther mauka, the long-range
division and us decided that it would be a good idea to go back to the applicant
and ask for a different proposal that would be more in conformance with the
General Plan to provide greater density in the area.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so is it normal procedure for you to do that with
every application that comes in? That you say, "Hey, it looks like maybe you
should do more. Can you resubmit an application to get more lots?" I mean is
this normal procedure for you guys to do that with every application?
MR. KAY: I wouldn't say its normal procedure with every application. Most
times when applications come in what they're asking for is relatively consistent
with what the General Plan calls for. For instance, if the LUPAG (Land Use
Pattern Allocation Guide Map) designation in the area was important agricultural
lands, then that would have been a more appropriate fit. In this case it wasn't, so
you know, in the past we have had preliminary discussions with the applicants
and asked them to come in with something more consistent. But, not as a matter
of course.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, and the General Plan, we're going to redo it because
it's kind of old and outdated, correct? We're in the process.
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MR. KAY: Yeah, it's currently going through an update right now. And we did
have an opportunity to speak with the long-range division, after the fact as we
started going through this update process and asked them, is this area going to
change. Is it going to shift more towards agricultural? Is it going to stay the
same? They indicated to us that again, given its proximately to town and the
desire to place density closer to town and closer to infrastructure, that it will likely
remain the same.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so how does it tie into the Hilo CDP (Community
Development Plan)?
MR. KAY: The Hilo CDP, I believe was adopted, and I'm not sure if it was by
ordinance or resolution, in 1975. So the Hilo CDP I believe covers this area if I
recall correctly. Maybe Sid, you can tell me if it was considered agricultural or
for residential purposes? I'm not sure, but in the absence of an updated CDP for
the area, in that area and the rest of Hilo we generally look at what the General
Plan has to say.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so right now the CDP is kind of like outdated or
archaic, because it didn't go through the same process as the current CDP went
through, is that correct?
MR. KAY: I am not sure, that was before my time on earth.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, and I think when I read it, they included a
community citizens group or something. Go ahead.
MR. FUKE: You know, from a geographical perspective, the Hilo Community
Development Plan actually stopped at Wailuku River. So, this area was kind of
like in no man's land. And Mr. Kanuha confirmed because he was there then.
And it was not adopted by ordinance. It was adopted by resolution by the
Planning Commission.
MS. POINDEXTER: So in all actuality, Hilo needs to go through what Hamakua
just finished and Ka`u just finished. I would hope so.
MR. FUKE: It's grossly outdated.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, so right now in all actuality they have no CDP.
Really a CDP or a CDP Action Committee. There's nothing there. And like you
said, because our Hamakua CDP stops before this project.
MR. FUKE: I think it's Kaiwiki Road was the boundary.
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MS. POINDEXTER: So again, it's just an unprotected area as well when we talk
about community input. And so that's why it was so important to get to that
community meeting, and Duane did you want to say something before I ask my
next question?
MR. KANUHA: Yes, Duane Kanuha, Deputy Planning Director. And we call
ourselves FLOPS (former leaders of public service). You know, what I'm here
for is to answer Planning policy related questions. Jeff and Christian worked on
this application. They interacted with the applicants and various agencies, so they
know the specific application inside and out. You know, I think the short answer
is that with the lack of any intermediate planning coverage, right, whether be a
community development plan, or an area development plan, or a special purpose
plan, then what we'll do is we'll just fall back to what the General Plan calls for.
Okay, and so in this situation and other situations like that, it's not really a policy
call because the General Plan itself is a policy, and if it dictates, that's what the
uses are anticipated for that area. That's probably what our professional call we'll
make, notwithstanding that we also will need to look at what's physically there,
right? In terms of infrastructure, whether or not adjacent community has changed
by different land uses over time and things of that nature. But, across the board,
that was a policy call and that was, in my opinion, the correct policy call.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. I was just concerned because the General Plan, I
know that it was some time ago, and it was time to revisit that again. So, trying to
go back to that plan and say this is the plan we should use, that was a little
concerning. But again, this is a community that has no representation on any
CDP, you know, at this moment, or didn't even have. From even with the Hilo
development plan when it was initially done in the `70's, they still weren't
represented in that. So, then I heard that, okay, 49 lots planned. So in the future,
can they go up to—what amount of lots can they go up to and not exceed? If they
decide to do more than 49, can they decide that at a later time? Say he sells it and
they want to do more lots. They're able to do that correct?
MR. FUKE: Well, mathematically you have the area that would enable you to
create maybe, you know, a few more lots. But, you know, if you go according to
what was originally proposed and then, as maybe modified by the conditions if
the conditions eventually get adopted by this Council and the zoning gets
approved, then obviously the layout is slightly changed.
One of the things that the staff is recommending, which the applicant has no
objection to, is like the construction of a County dedicable standard road running
on the Hamakua side, you know, towards Hamakua and also towards the Puna
side. And also the main spine road leading, you know, mauka-makai would also
be County dedicated. So, when you look at it from that standpoint, you know,
obviously, the road right-of-way is going to be wider than the proposed 20 -foot
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wide private driveways that are reflected on this plan. So, I think mathematically,
you'd be able to probably get a little bit more than the proposed 49, but
substantially more, I really doubt it. Because I think, you know, you might have
some lots, although the zoning might be like RS -10,000. And you might have
some lots that would be like 15,000 square feet.
Well to begin with, you know, unless you coordinate with your neighbor,
consolidate and resubdivide, you won't be able to create three lots out of two lots.
And as I mentioned earlier, the reason why the lots on the mauka portion which is
proposed to be zoned for one acre is a little bit larger than the normal amount. It's
like they wanted to provide an area of transition and making it somewhat
reasonable for family agricultural activities to occur there.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. So, when you talk about the amount of lots, you
know, they're concerned about the traffic impact. You know, that was brought to
my attention after the meeting. I don't think we talked much about traffic impact
there. We talked about a lot of flooding because of the possible grubbing and
grading going on there with the sweet potato farming, and they were scared
because already they're inundated with water in that area. So what was going to
happen when you clear it and now you have more lots there with more water
coming down? But, we talked about that and I think they were satisfied with, you
know, the possible drainage solutions that you came up with. And then, we'll talk
about that in the amendments.
I want to just to go the Archeological Inventory Survey that was done. So, first
there was one done, then they found out about more of the graveyard area. They
had a wider area, so they're now in the second draft of that survey.
MR. FUKE: Yeah, they initially had an Archeological Inventory Survey done
and that survey said that there was only one archeological feature on the property
and that was the cemetery, so they had identified the boundaries of that cemetery.
And then as I mentioned earlier there was some, like when further activity
occurred in that area just immediately outside of that boundary, then that's where
like one or two of the headstones were inadvertently knocked down. And so then,
the archeologists went back again, resurveyed the whole area and came up with a
larger area. And that was then the so-called revised AIS that was submitted.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so that's in second draft. SHPD didn't review that
yet. And then at that meeting, we heard from an elderly gentleman older than me,
that's why I said elderly—but remembers growing up as a child in Japanese camp,
because there was all plantation camps up there. Japanese camp, Portuguese
camp, Filipino camp, you know. And they each had their own gravesites. So one
of the gentlemen there said he remembers some of the Japanese graves getting
relocated to Alae Cemetery, but he also said they didn't take all of the remains.
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Then Jeno Enocencio talked about, you know, there's other gravesites around that
area that have not been identified.
MR. FUKE: There were other cemeteries?
MS. POINDEXTER: Other cemeteries, yeah. That's because people were so
poor that they couldn't afford to do those nice cement headstones back then. It
was either guava sticks that they made into a cross or just wooden crosses. And
over time, that would disintegrate. So the questions from the community was if
that's known to SHPD, or is there going to be another archeological survey to
make sure that we don't disrupt anymore gravesites. And they were saying, you
know, SHPD didn't even approve your burial plan or the archeological survey yet,
and we're moving ahead and now there may be more gravesites. So, how would
you deal with that?
MR. FUKE: So what you're referring to is like having these potential burials like
all scattered throughout this 40 -acre site. You know, I think its common
knowledge that the burials would be within the cemetery, and not like, you know
scattered throughout the rest of the property. If they were scattered throughout
the property, I think it would be very difficult to have like all these historical
agricultural uses on the balance. So nevertheless, there is always that potential.
So you have like an Archeological Inventory Survey, which kind of identifies as
best as you can what features are on the property that require preservation. And
for those that require preservation, and in this case only those in the cemetery
require preservation, then that preservation or burial treatment plan would have to
be approved also by SHPD. Tied in with that you have like an archeological
monitoring plan that's also part of the SHPD protocol. So that monitoring plan is
that as you do land disturbance activity over and beyond that preserved area, if
there are any inadvertent finds, then the protocol calls for you got to stop, notify
probably the Police Department and also notify SHPD and the Planning
Department, and then you take appropriate protocol from that point.
And if it's found out to be like a historical burial, then I think every effort is going
to have to be made to try to find whether there are any lineal descendants. And if
there are not, then they're going to have to find a place to properly reinter them,
whether it's going to be as is, or you know, into a cemetery.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Poindexter, I'm just going to interrupt real quick, the
five minutes are up and I just want to
MS. POINDEXTER: Can you give me a little more time, like everybody else?
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I'm going to just check in with everyone to see if there
are any comments, because I'll happily come back to you if nobody else has
questions for Mr. Fuke. Colleagues do you have any questions or any objection to
Ms. Poindexter continuing?
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, no. I do have questions, but keeping everything in
context for Ms. Poindexter, I'll be more than happy to yield to her so she can
finish.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I'm going to extend a little latitude and allow you to
finish. Thank you.
MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you, Chair. Okay, so one last thing, and I won't be
long because I want to hear from my colleagues, as well. Because I was asked by
the community since they didn't see the amendments either yet, for me to have
this postponed. Actually, they wanted it postponed till SHPD can come in and
look at the archeological survey and also the burial treatment plan.
So, I guess Duane you're going to have to answer this, and I was going to call
Christian again, because it was he that I met with and Director Yee. But, since
you're here as the Director, I'll ask you the question. Okay, so the Planning
Department from what I got wanted to move ahead with the application because
they did check with SHPD, and SHPD said that they would no longer pursue this
with the board. That's what I got. Is that a true statement?
MR. KANUHA: I think that in combination with—this application has been
pending with the department for some time. And we have a certain timeframe
where we have to, you know, move it along provided that it's a complete
application. But in a sense, that's correct. I mean, the information and
commentary we got back from SHPD was
MS. POINDEXTER: They wouldn't pursue it.
MR. KANUHA: Yeah, right. Either that or if SHPD doesn't give us any
comment, you know, that would also allow us to proceed. You know, technically
the rules require them to go up or down, I believe, in 30 days. But because of the
nature of what these studies are, you know, we've been pretty lenient on that.
MS. POINDEXTER: So, could the director have said, "Yes," "No" or "Let's do
an extension on the application." Or he still could have decided let's extend this
and get more information, because from my understanding, we didn't get
anything in writing from SHPD. Not an email, not a letter. Nothing, it was just a
phone call from Shane that said we're not going to pursue this. So, was that his
decision? Or, you know, that's where I question if it was SHPD's decision or his
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alone to make. But again, this is where everything gets kind of muddy with
SHPD.
MR. FUKE: Well, anyway, indifference to the staff too, I know that there were
like emails or discussions between the staff and Sean Naleimaile. You know, the
area archeologist. But subsequent to that, indifference to the staff, they asked us,
can you please check with SHPD as well? And so we did, and Mr. Olsen tried to
make contact with Mr. Downer and Mr. Wyenof£ And then finally, I believe it
was in March of this year Mr. Wyenoff said like, they talked to SHPD and
nothing.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, so all of this is done via phone call, because there is
nothing in emails or anything that I know of that I was trying to get, or anything
in writing from SHPD for the Planning Department, you know, continue with this
or go forward with the application. But I just wanted to bring that to everybody's
attention, that we should, I would say at least an email or something.
I mean it's so hard for the community to hear, well, on the phone call they said go
ahead, you know. And was that only his personal opinion or was that overall
SHPD's opinion? And I don't know, because we don't have anything in writing.
So, I want to hear from my colleagues. I'll yield at this time, but I am going to
bring an amendment forward and then I'm possibly going to do a postponement.
Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member Poindexter. Ms. Lee Loy?
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you former leaders of Planning Department. I really like
that actually. So we actually have two things going on, right? We have the State
Land Use piece, right and then the Change of Zone piece? And so just help
explain to the rest of us how this would actually work, because we need the two
parts to kind of, at some point, go together. And then adopt the State Land Use
Boundary amendment piece. Mr. Kanuha, please?
MR. KANUHA: So your question is procedure? What goes first? Okay, the
State Land Use Boundary amendment has to go first, followed by the rezoning
and any conditions related to the rezoning ordinance.
MR. FUKE: And if I can add to that, I think that, you know, whatever SHPD
does relative to this at this point in time, I have to say this alleged violation, you
know, with the landowner, that has to be, I would recommend be taken like on
another track. Largely because if you make that as a condition or you just hold it
off, then you know, you're kind of bordering on kind of trying to legislate infinity
because you'll never know like when that's going to happen. And even if there is
a resolution, or not a resolution, but the land board or whoever decides that this is
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so-called what you need to do, that could conceivably be contested. You know,
then you don't know how long that's going to take.
I think, you know, speaking on behalf of the Olson Trust, they want to get this
thing resolved. I mean, you know, they don't want to hang it on, so they were
always asking SHPD, what's the situation? Because, sure, you know there's
some amount of accountability on the part of the Olson Trust, but they maintained
that there is also some other people who were using that area. They were like
scavenging bottles, and that place has also been used by some of the homeless
that could have inadvertently resulted in some of these destructions. So to put the
entire burden on the Olson Trust, I think this is where between Mr. Olson and
their attorney, they kind of want to try to work this thing through with SHPD and
the land board. And when that's going to happen, basically they're waiting for
SHPD to come back.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for that gentlemen. Yeah, I'm generally concerned
about the timing elements as far as, you know, five years on final subdivision, but
we've got to wait for the approval of an AIS. And this body has seen what has
happened down at Kaupulehu where you had landowners put in the burial
treatment plan; put in, you know, all the various park plans and it sits for many,
many years in these state agencies. And despite a lot of prodding from the
applicant or from the County, you know, they're on their own timeline. I'm going
to yield at this time because I do have some general concerns about the
subdivision and the timing of that, but I also saw some of that reflected in
Ms. Poindexter's amendment, so I'll wait for that discussion. Chair, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Council Member
Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair, and thank you, what was it? FLOPS? Is
that who we were talking to? Okay. Coming back to this timing and we're heard
a lot of concerns and I don't think anybody up here in the dais is not deeply
bothered by impacting a cemetery. We all agree that that's problematic. I am
concerned that SHPD is not responding, and I think we get into a procedural
problem here. And help me through this Mr. Fuke. The damage was done
sometime in 2016, do I understand that correctly?
MR. FUKE: That's correct.
MR. RICHARDS: And then, again reading in the paper, this was reported by
Ed Olson Trust themselves, it wasn't that somebody discovered it, they reported it
themselves. Correct.
MR. FUKE: You know, the first time it happened, I think in the latter part of '15
or '16. Hang on a sec. In June of 2015, that was when they started to do, you
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know, the broad clearing of the Albezia, then in September, they discovered a
tomb, you know, near this cemetery.
MR. RICHARDS: Right in the same area?
MR. FUKE: There was no destruction then. So, because they discovered a tomb,
then they said, like, "Oh, it's not fully used for agricultural purposes in the past."
So, then they commissioned with scientific consultants services to do a formal
Archeological Inventory Survey of this entire area.
So then, that was done, the application was filed, you know, for that one -acre lot.
Then Mr. Olsen had, you know, some of his tenant farmers use that area. And so,
in conjunction with the tenant farming activity, they had another heavy equipment
go in there. But it went in there, but he went in outside of the initial boundaries of
what they understood to be the cemetery, and during that activity, they
inadvertently knocked off one or two headstones. And that occurred in 2016.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. That puts a better timeline. And no one wants to
disturb this. I do appreciate that Council Woman Poindexter has worked with the
community to bring the concern forward. My concern here is that SHPD is not
responding back to what would appear to be a concern. And that puts the
landowner in a kind of never, never land because nothing's happening. And so,
that probably concerns me more. We raise the concern and then it doesn't seem
to be a concern to the State and that is problematic. I'm going to yield at this
point, Chair.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member Richards. Council Member
David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. Thank you guys for being here today. This is a
very complex, complicated and drawn-out situation. Mr. Fuke, I would like to
first note that I believe why we're here today has no reflection on Mr. Olson and
all the good that he and his family has done for this island and for this
community, that's no question. And I just wanted to make that clear.
But, what I do have questions about is the fact that we're wondering what the
delay of SHPD has been. And so, in going through the transcript of the
Commission meeting that you folks had, I came across this comment that part of
SHPD said they didn't want to review the documents and then go ahead with the
application to that application of something to that effect. So, part of the holdup
they said they didn't want to review those documents until the violation with the
State was dealt with. And so, having no written document within the paperwork
from SHPD saying that they said go ahead, I called.
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And so, my understanding is at this point the violations are being negotiated.
SHPD and I believe Mr. Cross, they're negotiating the proposed violations. And
my understanding is once the trust and his attorneys agree on I guess the
settlement of what was proposed initially, then that would be agendized on the
Board's agenda to either accept or make their own recommendations on what kind
of terms they're going to agree to, or whether they're going to accept the
negotiated terms.
So, I can see that part. I understand that this is a lengthy process. In looking at
we, as the legislative body, I'm looking and reading the Board's comments about
this application that basically refers to our duty under 6E-42 (Hawai`i Revised
Statutes) to basically before any "political subdivisions approves any project," we
should "advise the department and prior to any approval allow the department an
opportunity to review and comment on the effect of the proposed project on
historic properties."
So my question is, I know where we are right now, but this pretty much tells me
that we're supposed to get this before we make a final decision on approving any
application. And so, my problem with this is there was an investigation for
proposed violations. Testifiers have been saying that, you know, these historic
properties have been in existence, and I'm not comfortable in saying, well, we're
going to take care of it after when 6E basically says that we have to make these
determinations beforehand. And I know the Environmental Impact Study (EIS)
was done.
MR. FUKE: The Archeological Inventory Survey, yeah.
MS. DAVID: And so it's to me, I don't believe thatI know the State takes a
long time to do their due diligence, but I think we also have a responsibility in
following the process, especially when the Board is also saying—right now, we're
pointing the finger at SHPD for not reviewing the survey and giving it to the
board.
But the documents in here, the letter from the Board dated October 2017,
basically has some very valid concerns about, number one, their belief. I guess
it's their belief that the application is engaged in parcelization, and that would
circumvent the comprehensive view by the LUC (Land Use Commission). That's
one of their points that they're making by keeping the delineation of the 14.95
acre Single -Family residential lots below the 15 -acre limit. So that was one of
their concerns.
The other one was there was a traffic study thing that they really believed should
be done. The other important one that caught my attention is that the County's
environmental report acknowledges that it is not known whether the subject of the
immediate surrounding area was used in the past for gathering of plants by native
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Hawaiians. And the report concludes that because the applicant has not observed
any native Hawaiians on site or the adjoining properties, that there's no impact.
But the board is saying there has been no formal cultural impact assessment
prepared for this project and that the environmental report's conclusion is without
basis because it does not comply with the Hawaii Supreme Court decision in Ka
Pa`akai O Ka `Aina, which mandated agencies to determine impacts prior to
approving applications.
So this is the Board's concerns, and I just want to know whether we have
responded to these concerns in the meantime. And for now, I just have those
comments to make, but that's why I am really uncomfortable at this point in time
listening to the reasons why. I hear the justification why we should move forward
because the State is taking so long, but I don't find a reasonable answer for me
that we can go beyond our responsibility to make these determinations
beforehand.
MR. FUKE: Well you know, like as far as the cultural portion, one of the steps
leading up to whether there's a need for a separate CIA (Cultural Impact
Assessment) is like an Archeological Inventory Survey. And the AIS basically
pointed out that the only thing that was worthy of preservation was the cemetery
portion. The historical use of the property on that portion anyway has been for
the cemetery.
It was already conceded that that area was going to be set aside and preserved and
lineal descendants would be allowed to gain access to it. And that was why in the
original rezoning application, the lot layout, it was already made clear that the
primary road leading up to the subdivision and also leading to the cemetery would
be available to the general public. The road would be publically dedicated. Over
and beyond that, you know, the historical use of the property has really been for
agriculture activity.
So all that was stated was that's been some, you know, that's the historical use or
recent history. And representation was further made that—you know, by
John Cross and also in conferring with Mr. Olson when they had ownership of the
property, if they had received any requests from Native Hawaiians, so people who
are interested to say, like I need to get to the property not only to visit the
cemetery, but maybe to do harvesting or things like that. And they did not receive
any such request, and as a result, that was the conclusion that was made in the
report that I prepared.
So during the course of the review of the application, should SHPD who also
receives copies of the application, you know, make that request to say that, no, but
we learned something, something, something. Then it would be incumbent upon
the applicant to try to address that particular question.
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MS. DAVID: So, would you think that, because now it's come before us that
SHPD is taking their sweet time and are not moving as fast as we would like them
to at the detriment of this applicant, that if we put this application off for a few
weeks or a couple weeks until we can actually encourage them that this is, you
know—
MR. FUKE: Subpoena them?
MS. DAVID: No, not subpoena them, but you know, I think we can basically
encourage them; call them and encourage them. You know, it's holding up our
decision here. And I just don't want to make a decision based on the fact that
some agency is taking too long, because that becomes a precedent and I don't
want to go there.
MR. KANUHA: Council Person David, let me respond to, you know, your
statement before the applicant replies. What it comes down to is this. Yeah, this
particular project, before it can be rezoned for the zoning that they're asking for,
has to be converted from the State Land Use district to another Land Use district.
So in this case, the existing State Land Use district, and there's only four of them,
right? Agricultural, Rural, Conservation, and Urban. Before you can convert
from district to the zoning, you have to go through that process, okay? And that
process for a long time required that anyone that wanted to convert those districts,
that conversion, that district redesignation could only be done by the State Land
Use Commission, okay?
The Legislature in its wisdom amended Act 205 to allow the counties the
authority to do that conversion for the State Land Use boundaries for areas that
are 15 acres or less. Now here's the difference, if you do a petition before the
State Land Use Commission, the rules of evidence are much higher and the
burden of proof is much higher. And so, their standards for approval, you know,
are much higher. So the commentary that they provided there was based on, you
know, what they would see. They've always, and still express the preference that
boundary amendments considered and granted by the County should be under
their purview. So what they usually try and do, right or wrong, is they try to
introduce this argument of segmentation, you know, where you take 14.9 acres for
a particular increment and you keep moving it on. But, I just wanted to make that
distinction.
The procedures in the County Code are not as stringent as those of the Land Use
Commission. It's primarily because their procedures are all quasi-judicial. You
know, based on contested case. Whereas the County's procedures and processes
are more like rezoning. We consider the same rezoning, but in a lot of areas what
the County requires of the applicants kind of mirrors the same concerns that the
State Land Use Commission does. Okay, so in this particular case, the surveys,
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things of that nature, that would be what the State Land Use Commission would
require as well. So, I just wanted to get things clear on that, yeah?
MS. DAVID: Yeah, I know that there's two different processes.
MR. KANUHA: And the other thing you need to remember is that the violation
component, you know, is clearly a separate track from SHPD's review and
approval or disapproval of the inventory surveys, right? That they're two
different tracks there, and I think they're still on two different tracks, right.
Which is why SHPD can say we have no comment or go ahead and do it, while
the violation track is still out there and pending. Okay, there's just two separate
tracks there.
MS. DAVID: Yeah, I understand that, and again my concern was that we proceed
without getting a preservation plan for the historic properties that were identified
as being historic properties because it wasn't an inadvertent discovery, it was a
discovery made as a result of a grading and grubbing permit that was not obtained
first hand. So, those things I'm having to go through it in my mind because I
think for me, in order to make an informed and reasonable decision and what I'm
to do right now, it seems like because there have been historic properties
identified on the property, then there needs to be a comprehensive plan on how to
address that and how to go out to the public and notify them that, you know, if
you have any interest in this area whether it's cultural, historical or traditional,
give them an opportunity to come forward as opposed to bringing them forward
on an inadvertent discovery after the fact.
MR. KANUHA: Well, let me just say this, if it wasn't for this inadvertent action
on the graveyard, based on all the studies and based on all the requirements, we'd
still be right back here today.
MS. DAVID: I understand.
MR. KANUHA: Right? We'd still be right back here today. The studies would
show that there was this graveyard. They'll do whatever more analysis they
would need to do as part of that study to determine what's the extent of that
graveyard; who was there, you know; where it leads to. And all of that would be
presented to SHPD for them to look at. And they take the same approach that
they've done now, which is not to say anything or they could have looked at it
and said, what about this; what about that? That's part of, you know, part of the
process. So in my mind, from the department's standpoint we're comfortable that
everything has been done that we required them to do. And what other agencies
have provided us even SHPD's no comment to us, you know, is a comment of
sort. So, our position here is before you—you know, it's in your ballpark to
decide what you want to do with it, yeah.
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MS. DAVID: Right. And I appreciate that. And I just wanted to get your sense
of this section of this statute that says, "Except as otherwise provided in
Section E-42.2, before any agency or officer of the State or its political
subdivisions approves any project involving a permit, license, certificate, land use
change, subdivision, or other entitlement for use, which may affect historic
property, aviation artifacts, burial sites, the agency or office," which is us, "shall
advise the department and prior to any approval, allow that department an
opportunity to review and comment on the effect of the proposed project on the
historic properties." So, that's where I'm stuck.
MR. FUKE: If I can just kind of like just—
MS. DAVID: They haven't commented yet.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member David. Mr. Fuke before you answer, I
just want to say a little PSA (Public Service Announcement), if you're tuning in
for Public Works and Mass Transit or Finance Committee, we are still
deliberating in Planning Committee. And if you could wrap up questions and I'm
going to check in with Council Chair Chung. Thank you.
MS. DAVID: Yes, I'm going to wrap it up. So, that is what I'm reading and I
just wanted to make that—
MR. FUKE: If I can just kind of just make two comments on, you know, related
to that?
MS. DAVID: Sure.
MR. FUKE: One is that I can't understand why SHPD withheld the review of the
Archeological Inventory Survey, which prevented the submission of the Burial
Treatment Plan, while this so-called reported violation issue was kind of ongoing.
I don't think they're kind of like related. There may be some relationship, but
they can be like both independent processes.
Secondly is that true, you know, it would be good to have like the review and
advice or recommendation of the different agencies, but absent that, if you have
the required information absent comment from the person that's going to be
making it; if you have the required information, I would assume that you have the
knowledge to be able to read it. Make your own assessment and make your own
conclusion regardless of what SHPD says and doesn't say. If, for example, we
don't have like any Archeological Inventory Survey and we just say. "Council
Woman David, trust me," you know like, I don't think I would trust myself in
being able to say you have to trust my recommendation.
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MS. DAVID: Right, I understand.
MR. FUKE: On the other hand, if you have like a professionally done
Archeological Inventory Survey, you've reviewed the recommendations. And
then, in conjunction with that, they're recommending a Burial Treatment Plan. A
Burial Treatment Plan is also part of your submittal, and if you look at that, it also
says that they did make a notice. They had a notice sent out and published in the
newspaper. So I guess like, well I can appreciate your point wanting to wait to
hear what SHPD has to say. I think that you have enough information before you.
You all are reasonably intelligent people that you can kind of make your own
assessment, and I would entrust you to make your assessment.
MS. DAVID: Thank you. And with all due respect to the private Archeological
Inventory Survey that was conducted, I really think that the State should weigh in,
and that's according to the statute. So anyway, I hear what you're saying, and I
know that it's our decision. So, thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member David. Council Chair
Chung in Hilo, would you like to make any comment on these bills?
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, briefly. You know, first of all, I listened to a lot of the
testimony. And most of them, if not, all of them were done here in Hilo. And
very interesting, all points well taken. You know, we had a person,
Donald Medeiros, who is actually still around but I think he has to leave pretty
soon. You know, he's a longtime resident of that area. He stated some concerns.
Mr. Rudny also, but you know, a lot of it centered on the matter of the cemetery.
And you know, the way I'm looking at this is from a land use standpoint. Let's
take away the cemetery from the equation. Is this a good use or a proper use of
land in that area? I don't know, so I have to seek guidance, of course, from you
know, the representative from that district. Although, you know, I probably live
closer to that area than Val does. And I go up that Amau`ulu Road, you know,
quite often to take my daughter to the soccer field, which is owned by the
Edmund Olson Trust, of course. And I don't see a problem, quite frankly.
Flooding may become problematic in that area, but you know, we haven't raised
it yet. But I'm just looking at the amendment that's been prepared by
Ms. Poindexter, and it seems to address that flooding issue as well. So, I'm just
looking at it from a purely land use standpoint. I know how visceral, and you
know, maybe to other people, offensive, you know, desecration of cemeteries and
gravesites are, and I certainly feel the same way. I've shared the same feelings
that Mr. Rudny had expressed earlier, you know. To this very day, I will certainly
not walls over a grave. I don't even point at a grave out of respect to those who
are there.
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But SHPD has to do their job, and I think the amendment which hasn't been put
on the floor yet will address those concerns. I don't think there's any reason to
hold off on this matter, in my humble opinion. Then it would become incumbent
upon the applicant at some point. Let's say this matter was approved. This
application was approved at the County level and the State still wasn't doing their
job—because they owe a ministerial duty to the public to do their job, and they're
not doing it. So I think it would be incumbent now upon the petitioner to go and
file a law suit against SHPD and say, what the hell is going on? Do your job, one
way or the other. People have to know where they stand, plain and simple.
So I look at it again, as you know, I just have to take away that whole cemetery
issue. You know, we've spent most of this discussion talking about the
gravesites. That's really, and I don't want to seem flippant about it, but it really is
a red herring in all of this. The main thing is that we need to look at it from a land
use standpoint, and I think that what was there before—I mean I know this is only
part of the large C. Brewer development which called for anywhere, from what,
400 to 800, I'm not too sure, properties until it was down -zoned by the Greer's.
This is far less, and I think Mr. Olson has proven over, you know, the years, even
if he's getting up there in age, that he's out there to do the right thing. So that's
my thoughts anyway. I prefer to move this thing forward, but that's only my
feeling. That's not my district. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair Chung. Council Member
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Hello FLOPS. That's a good one, that a
very good acronym. I like acronyms. I've listened to this discussion and I really
thank the Council's discussion and for your input as well. I do agree with
Maile David that, you know, regardless of any philanthropic actions by Ed Olson,
and with all due respect to him, because he has been a leader in this community as
far as building business and helping people become things that they may not have
had the option to without him. This really is and does fall back on him as a
landowner and his faults along the way, which I find interesting given his
background and given what he knows and what he has done.
So I find it slightly disturbing that we found this site in the process of grading and
grubbing, and then we continued to desecrate that site. And you've got to be
honest, they found it, they noticed it, they disturbed it; and then by accident or
not, did it again. And if that was anyone of our families or our people that
someone had dropped a tree on or disturbed with the bulldozer, I'm pretty sure we
would be up in arms against what had happened, and maybe not so forgiving.
And more of a let -it -go mentality. And that's just how I feel. If that was my
grandmother, that's how I'd feel.
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So regarding what we have in front of us, after the letter from SHPD was
received, October 18, 2016, there was an investigation from the DLNR, and then
there was a violation, and then there was a fine for disturbing four burial sites.
And as that violation was scheduled to be heard January 12, 2018. It has been
postponed, but has yet to be rescheduled. So it says SHPD is not yet finished
their review of the draft, and although that may be an answer, like you said.
Mr. Kanuha, it still isn't an answer and we're still kind of floating. That's why I
tend to agree with Maile David on that because we're still waiting on an answer.
Unless we've had an answer since then, but I'm not getting that we have.
And then, what I wanted to clarify too is, when you submit to SHPD for, you
know, when you take over a property, you're going to do some work on a
property and you submit to SHPD and there's no answer, that's usually a go
ahead. But in the case of a violation, a post -violation, is that the same style of
thought, not same style but actionable items. Is that still the same?
MR. KANUHA: That's a good question. I don't know what the answer is to that.
MR. FUKE: I'm sorry, I wasn't' listening to the question. Can you restate it?
MR. KANUHA: The comment is on, if there's a violation like in this case,
there's a violation that's ongoing, does that stay their responsibility to respond?
MR. FUKE: I don't believe there's any rule to that effect. That's why my earlier
comment was I believe that they can be taken on both tracks. You know, like one
is the review of the Archeological Inventory Survey, and the other one is
reviewing the damage portion. Because independent of that, even if you're going
to, say for example, if you resolve the damage portion, the violation, and then
does it change the nature or the composition of the AIS, because the AIS is
already recommending that a wider area be set aside for this cemetery area. And
it also goes into the protocols about like what should be done in the event there's
some inadvertent finds. So, honestly I don't know whether there's any statute or
regulation that prohibits SHPD from continuing its review because there's a
pending violation.
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, if I might, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I just took a look at
HRS, Chapter 6E and I sat alongside Mr. Richards looking for that specific part.
There is no timing element under that section of HRS, which is kind of the
purgatory that we find ourselves in. SHPD is a State agency and they have their
own rules as designed by our State statutes. They're the authority on this one. So
that's why I'm kind of eager to see Ms. Poindexter's amendments and how we
can actually get some comment back, which is what Ms. David is looking for and
yourself, while still kind of holding the land owner accountable to meet the
various conditions of approval. And maybe some time to just take a look at that
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section. It's a pretty quick read, but if you want to take a look, it's Chapter 6E in
our Statues.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Switching then—so land use here
was prime Ag, yes? Is that what this was called? I read that in the report.
MR. FUKE: Okay, according to the status report, it was prime agricultural land
and existing urban development.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I've got to ask the question then, for
developing into one -acre lots, is that for the top half or for the whole section?
MR. FUKE: The top portion.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The top portion. When we develop one -acre
lots like HPP (Hawaiian Paradise Park) or anywhere else, I really don't see much
Ag happening after that. So I know this island is heavy in Ag lands, but as part of
the Ag Committee when we take prime Ag land then develop it into one -acre
residential lots and they call it something else, and I'm going to say that.
And as part of the—when you make a subdivision, five to ten percent of the total
land area is to be developed into a park or a green space or an open space or some
sort. Is that correct? And then preserved in a way, and then given to an entity
like the County. It's in the Subdivision Code, I forget what it's actually called.
It's preservation of space or something.
MR. FUKE: Well based on like the way the County has been approving the
zoning ordinance, you know, you have like your fair share impact, which
addresses the parks, the roadway, your solid waste, police, and fire. So, if you
provide a park space within that area, and it's going to be available to the general
public, then that gets credited against the park requirement. Like in this particular
instance, as I had given my opening comment, more than two acres of land which
has been traditionally used by the community for I don't know how long, will be
conveyed to the County. That's part of the Clem Akina Park.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So I read that as 1.7 acres. Am I mistaken?
MR. FUKE: Whatever, you know, it's a proposal, yeah.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So I did some math real fast. Five percent
of 40 acres comes out to two acres of land. So we're under on our five percent,
unless you include the cemetery, because then you'd have three point something
acres. So that's my question. Are we doing the five to ten percent? Being how
philanthropic Mr. Olson is. Is he giving his five percent?
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MR FUKE: If the Council in its wisdom chooses to increase the park
requirement, you know you can make that as a condition.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You might want to think about that,
Ms. Poindexter when you do your amendments. Okay, thank you, I have no
further questions.
MR. FUKE: I would like to just, you know, clarify one comment that was made
just from a factual standpoint.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'd appreciate that.
MR. FUKE: You know, when the—I'll make a copy of this and provide to the
Chair later, but this is like what was presented to the community and it was a
detailed chronology prepared by Mr. John Cross. And pretty much like what I'm
reciting a lot is what his narrative. And what he points out is that when the tree
felling, you know, on the Albezia first occurred in 2015, at that time, John has
some familiar—in that area. So like, there's potential for a cemetery over there.
So then, he had work stopped over there. Sean Naleimaile, according to his
chronology, and I'll make it available to you. He came out to the site twice and
based upon the two visitations, with SHPD local staff The preliminary boundary
of the cemetery was identified. Once that boundary was established, then in
September of 2016, you know, roughly like about one year later, there was some
activity going on in that area outside of the so-called boundary, then during that
time they discovered an inadvertent destruction of one or two headstones in that
area.
Work was stopped and it was represented by Mr. Cross and the bulldozer operator
to SHPD, and then during the course of that, the AIS was amended to now reflect
a larger area.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's good. And with that knowledge it
hurts me that we desecrated graves.
MR. FUKE: Well, I think that, you know, according to—if you read his
chronology, according to them they made a good -faith effort. You know, because
once they discovered it then they hand -cleared all of the particular area. And then
they, you know, they poisoned. And then they figured out like where the
boundary was going to be.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I appreciate that. That is good. I respect
that, little bit late, but I respect that. Now still, I'll say it again, if that was anyone
of our families in this room and that had happened, we would not be smiling
down on whoever did that. So regardless of what we are talking about, which is
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rezoning, you've got to talk about this kind of stuff because it did happen and we
can't glaze over it.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, do you yield? Thank you.
Council Member Eoff, then I'll go to Council Member, Villegas.
MS. EOFF: Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just wondering of Ms. Poindexter is
planning to make a motion to postpone, because there's so many things at play
here right now that I really believe that would be the best route for us today. The
community concerns; the use of the land. Several of testifiers eluded to too many
different things, but most importantly I think is what Ms. David has raised and
what's been raised by a few testifiers in writing. That we need to follow the
proper process.
And you know, you folks are recommending something, but we are actually the
decision -makers, and I think we are bound by laws to base our decision on facts
that we have satisfied any kind of impasse to historic sites, historic properties and
cultural practices. So, I don't really feel comfortable that's taken place, unless we
get at least the proper information sent down to us. And in whatever order that's
supposed to be done. If SHPD has to wait for a negotiated settlement, if that's
proper for them before they further opine, then maybe we do have to wait. And I
don't know how long that will take, but maybe if we do postpone it today we
could find that out and then go from there. So I just suggest that might be the
safest route for us as decision makers and law makers.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member Eoff. Council Member
Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you for being here and for your patience through this
process in providing so much information. This is a tremendously complicated
issue. On one side might seem simple, but for myself from a principle standpoint,
it gets complicated by the fact that there's some violations being cited and
actually I'm friends with Ed Olson's wife. And so, you know, I have extreme
gratitude for all that his trust has done for so many areas on this island and his
generosity to the people here. However, I would agree with a motion to postpone
because this just is too complicated, and I just think out of principle, we shouldn't
be rushing things like this.
The Olson trust is not in jeopardy of going bankrupt if this deal doesn't happen
quickly. This is not a case of somebody having dire circumstances if we wait to
get answers from SHPD and continue to follow through with the process as the
law requires.
I also just want to point out, it just jumped out to me that, you know, in recent
history, this was sugar cane land, but the history of our islands tells us that there
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were people in that space that utilized that land for other things prior to the
plantation era. So I just want to be sensitive to the potential of other iwi and
other circumstances that might be relevant in the area.
Just have been hearing from a number of different constituents, and while it's not
my district, when we get an overflowing of people asking for a postponement and
asking for things to be slowed down, and also people that through the exposure of
these gravesites and some of the headstones, people that didn't know where their
kupuna were buried have been able to find them.
And as we all know, you know, in the history of Hawaii, sometimes we all get
displaced and disconnected from our families. And in some way this has
provided an opportunity for some of those families to identify the placement of
their ancestors, which in its own odd way has a silver lining. But I'm more
comfortable with postponing this and doing some further research and connecting
with SHPD and making sure that all the legal processes are followed through in
completion, so I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Since everyone has asked
questions, I have a few questions. And then I'm going to ask Council Member
Poindexter if she would like to introduce her amendments. Just a few questions,
Mr. Fuke. You mentioned in June 2015 there was a clearing of the property. Was
there a grubbing permit for that?
MR. FUKE: According to the chronology that Mr. Cross provided, that he had
applied but none was issued, and he said that since no stump removal was planned
and soil disturbance was expected to be minimal and within the exempted
amount, they proceeded with the felling operations, you know, of the Albezia
trees that do not require a grading permit.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, so that was in June 2015?
MR. FUKE: June 2015, correct.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And then in December 15 as you stated, they discovered
the cemetery. Was there additional grubbing work that was happening?
MR. FUKE: No. In September of 2015 while the tree felling was nearing
completion in the lower area of the project and as they were working near the
cemetery site, they saw a cement rectangular tomb near a large Monkey Pod tree,
at which time then, Mr. Cross informed the contractor to kind of stop all activity
in that area. That was in September 2015, and then they formally contracted with
an archeologist to do the survey, you know, of that area and then the entire parcel,
which was completed in March of 2016.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: At what point were you notified, or was the developer
notified by Public Works to stop?
MR. FUKE: They were notified in March of 2016 by Public Works that there
was a grubbing violation.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And at which point, the trust submitted an after -the -fact
grubbing permit?
MR. FUKE: Correct, yeah.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And that's when we kicked off the AIS process.
MR. FUKE: Correct.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. I want to turn to an October 2016 letter from
SHPD regarding the after -the -fact grubbing permit. There were a number of
requests on SHPD's end to be resolved. They basically said no further work until
a number of items were met. So I'm just wondering the status of that. I mean one
of the things that are very obvious to me are that the orange mesh construction
fence be erected around the cemetery area. And that's a very easy way to prevent
any other inadvertent accidents when clearing, so I'm just wondering what the
status is on implementing those requests, because they're about two -and -a -half
years old now.
MR. FUKE: You mean pursuant to that October 2016 letter?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Yes.
MR. FUKE: As far as what's on the ground right now? Whether there's like an
orange fence? Can I defer it to John Cross, who's in Hilo?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, please. If Mr. Cross is still in Hilo, I would love to
get a status update, as I'm sure my colleagues would be as well.
(Note: At this time, Land Consultant to Edmund Olson Trust John Cross
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. CROSS: Yes, we did erect the orange field fencing after that September
encouragement by the bulldozer operator. And that orange field fencing remains
today. Although it is covered by grass and vines now.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And Mr. Cross, do you have a copy of that letter from
SHPD in front of you from 2016?
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MR. CROSS: No I do not have it with me. This is the one that was written to
Duane Kanuha and Warren Lee?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Yes.
MR. CROSS: Yes, not to the Trust, but it is in my files, but back at the Papa`ikou
office.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, but maybe you know off the top of your head if
the requests were met. So the 10 -foot interim protection buffer; the orange mesh,
which you stated for the record was erected. The preservation plan has been
submitted to SHPD but it hasn't been reviewed and accepted. And that the
preserve has been recorded on a plat map with the Bureau of Conveyances.
MR. CROSS: It has not been recorded on the plat map with Bureau of
Conveyances. The orange mesh fencing was put up with a more than adequate
50 -foot wide buffer between what was known to be the edges of the gravestones
that we had a surveyor mark out. And we would do that with the metes and
bounds and recording upon the plat map, but that would be done at subdivision.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Got it. Okay, thank you. And then I just want to bring
everyone's attention to the very excellent planning report backgrounder, page
seven. It actually starts on page five, Number 18, "Archaeological, Historic,
Cultural Resources." Council Member Poindexter had alluded to this earlier
about just the interaction with SHPD, and I do find it bothering that we haven't
gotten anything in writing to confirm that they aren't pursuing violations, but if
you read a little bit further, there is a phone conversation just a couple of months
ago in March where SHPD staff indicated that it may be changing course and
resurrecting pursuance of the violation anyway.
So I just have concerns all around, and I don't see a rush in having to move this
forward to Council at this point. I would like to hear Council Member
Poindexter's amendments because I know that she worked really hard to engage
community and worked in partnership with Planning to sort of create conditions
that are a little bit—are just strengthened and have a little bit more detail, so that
we can ensure that the existing developer and future developers are held
accountable. Mr. Kanuha and Mr. Fuke, did you want to comment at all about the
planning report and this sort of miscommunication within SHPD and State and
how that's translating to the County level?
MR. FUKE: No I think that as you pointed out, like on page seven of this
planning status report, you know, that's kind of like an accurate characterization
of what I understood to have happened between, you know, that dialogue between
Planning Department and SHPD. You know, if I can kind of add, I can
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understand maybe there might be a concern for wanting to defer, and admittedly
Mr. Olson is not really like in a rush, except that we have to understand that he is
88 or 87 years old, so there is a little bit, you know some measure of urgency.
But I would suggest that, you know, like how you Council, you all have
deadlines, whether it's for the budget or whatever have you. You have to make
decisions, and I think that in fairness to the general public, SHPD has to be a little
bit more responsible, more accountable.
So if you're going to defer it, I would recommend that the deferral be for a certain
period, or if you have the powers of subpoena, tell SHPD to come and give them a
chance to say something, you know, and not let it be deferred in infinity. And
conceivably that's what could happen. And that's not going to be fair to all
involved.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, I was going to suggest that we actually defer until
the July 8th meeting, and then I'm going to check with Corp. Counsel. Do we
have subpoena power as a Council?
MS. POINDEXTER: Madam Chair, I would want to talk about that in my
postponement when I make the motion to postpone because Mr. Fuke will not be
here on the 8th, so I was going to say the 23rd meeting, Committee Meeting July
23rd. So I was going to bring in my amendment, then make a postponement so
Mr. Fuke and I could go back to the community and see if there's any other
conditions or if they're okay with these conditions, to try and move forward.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And I think there's been some other remarks made by
Council Members that you might want to consider in another iteration of proposed
amendments. Okay, so I'm going to turn the floor over to you for a second,
Council Member Poindexter to, let's see, do we need to amend Bill 84?
Motion to Amend: Ms. Poindexter moved to amend Bill 84 with the contents
of Comm. 315.2. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: And these are the amendments that were made because of
the concerns that the community had at that meeting, and Mr. Fuke was so kind
enough to help me get this done and agreed to these conditions. This, I feel if it -
I hope you support it so that we can take this back to the community, and again
you know, get their blessings on it.
In fact when we were at that meeting, Mr. Fuke, as you remember, there was a
descendent who found out where her great grandmother was because her sister, I
think or cousin from Honolulu called and said, "Hey, did you see the news? It's
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grandma's grave." You know, and so, that was important because we finally
found a connection too, and that was part of some plan, I guess the burial plan put
together to find the lineal descendants. So, we're starting that.
I guess it's pretty self-explanatory. I just ask for your support in this amendment.
So I'll yield the floor to hear from my colleagues. Thank you, Chair.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Council Members, any comments, feedback for Council
Member Poindexter, Mr. Fuke? Planning Department, do you have any
comments?
MR. KANUHA: Yeah, I can just add that we've reviewed proposed amendments.
We have no objections to them.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Fuke, I know that you worked with Council Member
Poindexter, but I just want to hear, for the record, that the applicant is in
agreement.
MR. FUKE: Yes, like I had drafted that and also had a discussion with
Mr. Olson's attorney, and he too concurred with the proposed amendments.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, any other discussion on this? Okay, Council
Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair, Mr. Kanuha, Mr. Fuke. And I'm going to be
supporting this amendment, but I was just wondering, because we have
Condition (d), "Final subdivision approval shall be secured within five years from
the effective date of this ordinance." And I understand subdivision really isn't a
land -clearing action. It's drawings on paper.
But in light of what I've experienced here on the Council and just the timeliness
of SHPD, I'm wondering if this is enough time, and I also recognize there's five
years from the effective date of this ordinance, and then a time extension which
would allow for another five years. I just wanted to get your thoughts on that
particular condition.
MR. FUKE: Well I believe like that's kind of like a standard condition that the
staff, you know, and the Council usually adopts. So which is like, you know,
basically a five-year, plus the five-year. And I would hope that within the
ten-year period, you know, that the project can be completed, because most of us
will be former FLOPS.
MS. LEE LOY: I agree, I hope FLOP -outs. I agree.
MR. KANUHA: You mean, you would hope SHPD would respond in ten years.
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MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I'm going to be supporting this amendment and then defer
until we can kind of get a bright line as far as where SHPD is. I'm also reading
through various administrative rules as it relates to SHPD and their timing
elements. And I understand there's an active violation with SHPD. And so I'm
not sure if there's procedurally with SHPD that they have to address the violation
and then look at the AIS. So even if the applicant were to prepare an AIS and get
it in to them, if SHPD doesn't clear the violation with the board, then that clock
will still be ticking. Is that kind of a correct understanding?
MR. KANUHA: I think the question was asked earlier and I'm not sure, you
know, whether that applies. But obviously, you would think that it would be an
appropriate response from SHPD to our department and the applicant that they are
withholding further review on the AIS pending resolution of the, you know,
alleged violation. But you know, as the record shows, there's nothing on either
side.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, gentlemen. I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Any other comments? If not
there is a motion on the floor to amend Bill 84 with the contents of
Communication 315.2. Any other comments? If not, I'll take a vote. All in
favor, please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 84 with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 315.2, was carried by the following voice vote.
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
MS. POINDEXTER: Madam Chair, now that we're back to the main motion, can
I make a motion to postpone it to our July 23rd meeting? That will give an
opportunity for Mr. Fuke and I to go back to the community and Mr. Fuke will be
back in town and be able to be here at that time.
MR. FUKE: Plus, it would give SHPD ample opportunity to review.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Hopefully, they're live streaming right now.
Susan Lebo, Alan Downer, Sean Naleimaile. Do you hear us?
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June 18, 2019
MS. POINDEXTER: Even if they're not live streaming now, they can always
watch it.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And I'm sure there's going to be an article in the Tribune
Herald tomorrow. I will entertain the motion. I just wanted to provide some final
remarks, if that's okay, then I'll ask you to raise the motion.
You know, going back to what Council Chair Chung pointed out, if we take away
what happened with the cemetery, I think it's a good project. There's good intent
there, but I think this body wants to be sure that if mistakes are made they need to
be rectified. There's a lot of issues that caused domino effects, and I'm hoping
that this project in particular, all parties are able to find a sense of taking some
ownership and reflect on what's happened.
You know, I have a lot of appreciation and respect for Mr. Olson. I wonder why
no grubbing permits were obtained, or more pressure wasn't put on Public Works
twice. And so that doesn't sit well with me. Our Code, when I take a look at it,
maybe the consequences just for these kinds of violations are inconsequential.
We're going without permits, and we see this across the board all over the island
for different kinds of scales of projects. So I question, perhaps, our permitting
process.
It's very clear, you know, the first Planning Committee that I chaired, Bill 1,
Kaupulehu Developments. SHPD hadn't responded to that project developer in
seven years. They are maxed. Sean is maxed. It's not the first time we've heard
this and I will put my money on it, it's probably not going be the last. It's years
long review, and I think that many projects are often victims of this process.
I also think about DLNR and how this was on their agenda in December of 2017,
and again January 2018. And it really hasn't been resolved to the satisfaction of
the public and the County. We need answers; we need explanations. The minutes
that I've looked at, they don't provide any context, any background. And I think
we need that in writing because that information is really foundational to any of
our decision making. And with all of these elements together, I think it's just
created a recipe for a very disastrous cocktail.
I think Planning has done an excellent job where possible, to create conditions
where we keep developers accountable. So I want to thank you all for your hard
work on that. And given the discussion that we've had as a Council, I would like
to entertain the motion by Council Member Poindexter to defer. I'm so sorry, to
postpone Bill 84 to the July 23rd Planning Committee meeting in Kona.
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Vote on Motion to
Postpone:
(Approved)
June 18, 2019
Ms. Poindexter moved to postpone Bill 84, as amended
to Draft 2, to July 23, 2019. Seconded by Ms. David
and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Chair Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, just wanted to briefly say, with regard to that motion, you
know, I'm going to support because it's going to be brought up again on July 23rd
I don't like indefinite types of postponements particularly when we're talking
about the approval process relating to some separate agency like the State. But
saying that, you know, I just wanted to make one comment.
You know, I think a lot ofagain, I want to reiterate, you know, I'm not
downplaying the importance of the gravesite matter. In the eyes of many, it's
very important. I know Matt kind of brought it home like he normally does when
he said, you know, he'd be very angry if it were his ancestors who were there.
And as would I, but as the same time, as emotional as this matter may be, I think
we are duty-bound to divorce ourselves from that emotion and make objective
decisions when it comes to the public. And what I'd like to see more of will be
discussions relating to the land use aspects of this development.
I would like to make one more request, though. Given the high intensity of this
matter, and you know, there's a lot of credibility issues involved. Again,
becoming emotional, I'm wondering if it's possible if Mr. Olson himself can be
present at one of these next meetings.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Fuke, would you be able to make that happen?
MR. FUKE: I will ask. That's all I can do.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you.
MR. CHUNG: Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair Chung. Mr. Clerk, motion to postpone
Bill 83.
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PC-11 June 18,2019
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend passage of Bill 83
on first reading. Seconded by Ms. David.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. A motion to postpone Bill 83 until the
July 23`d meeting in Kona?
Vote on Motion to Ms. Lee Loy moved to postpone Bill 83 to July 23, 2019.
Postpone: Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following
(Approved) voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Motion carries. Bills 83 and 84 will be heard at Planning
Committee on July 23`d. Do I have a motion to adjourn?
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 3:27 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn the
MENT: meeting. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Planning Committee is adjourned.
Approved:
Nii)
7/3o/149
Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz, Chair (Date)
Planning Committee
AK/dt
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