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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PWMTC 2019/09/03 2018-2020Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit 13th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii September 3, 2019 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit ORDER: was called to order at 1:03 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair (came in later) Ms. Karen Eoff, Member, Member Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member (came in later) Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member (came in later) Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Katherine Marchese: Jon Olson: Blake Reid: Shelly Green: (representing Aloha Design & Build) Hannah Hedrick: Comm. 425, comment. Comm. 425, comment. Comm. 429, in support. Comm. 429, in opposition. Comm. 429, comment. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. One last check to all of our remote sites. Seeing no more testifiers, I'm going to close public testimony. PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 With that and in an effort to organize our agenda a little bit better, what I'd like to do is take up Resolution 259-19 first; then Communication 425 followed by Communication 429. If I don't hear any objections, Mr. Clerk, please, Resolution 259-19. Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the of Business: following item was taken out of order: ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. Res. 259-19: ACCEPTS THE DEDICATION OF ROADWAY LOT 14-C, (MANAWALEA STREET), IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP KEY NO.: 7-4-021:048, SITUATED AT KEAHUOLU, DISTRICT OF NORTH KONA, ISLAND AND COUNTY OF HAWAII, STATE OF HAWAII, FROM FHT KAMAKANA, LLC, A HAWAII LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY The landholder seeks to dedicate the roadway and all improvements for public roadway purposes. Reference: Comm. 413 Intr. by: Ms. Lee Loy (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Eoff moved to recommend adoption of Res. 259-19. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz CHR. LEE LOY: This really is just a roadway dedication. In the back of the resolution, you will find a communication from Corporation Counsel, Environmental Management, Department of Public Works, Water Supply, and Planning Department that this particular resolution meets its form and content and is ready for approval by this body. Ms. Eoff, go ahead. MS. EOFF: Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to strongly urge our support for this. I know the map is a little bit hard to read, but in case you may not know exactly where this is, it's right by those new affordable apartments off of Ane Keohokalole Highway near the Kealakehe High School. And opening of this section of Manawalea will then connect all the way up through Hawaiian Homes and then it curves and goes all the way up to Kealakehe School Complex. So it's a pretty important piece, segment that we've been looking forward to this dedication. So thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Eoff. Any others? Seeing none, if we could have a motion to send Resolution 259-19 to the Council with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor. Page 2 PWMTC-13 Vote on Res. 259-19 (Approved) Return to Order of Business: COMMUNI- CATIONS: September 3, 2019 The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 259-19 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Chung — 1. Excused: None. CHR. LEE LOY: Next, Communication 425, please. The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business. The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Communications. Comm. 425: REQUESTS AN UPDATE BY THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS REGARDING WORK TO REBUILD HIGHWAY 132 From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated August 14, 2019. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 425. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead, lead the discussion. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. You know I wanted to invite Director Yamamoto and other members of Public Works to come before the Council and just provide us an update on where we are with Highway 132. I think it was deadline day that the article in the Tribune Herald appeared where we found that folks working on highway restoration had encountered some pretty hot temperatures making work to lay down, I think, the base layer of asphalt difficult or just impossible at this time. So Director, if you could just provide us with an update. I know that you and I have had other communications around reaching out to Federal Highways to see if they would be open to providing our County with an extension, because I know that we're working right up against that October 5th deadline in order to get the 100 percent reimbursement from Federal Highways. (Note: At this time, Public Works Director David Yamamoto and Acting Building Chief Robin Matsumoto came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 3 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 MR. YAMAMOTO: Good afternoon, Council. I'm David Yamamoto, Director of Public Works. Regarding Highway 132, we completed the fine grating of the upper section and started installing the asphalt concrete base course in that section today. We'll be finishing the fine grating of the lower section and yeah, the temperatures that are in that lower section are a lot higher being that was the later section that we opened up. And we also encountered more dense rock there which is associated with the higher temperatures as well. That slowed down the process, being that the temperature—we had a lot of equipment breakdown, and it wouldn't be conducive to install the asphalt concrete base course at this time. I mean the temperature is elevated and the asphalt would melt, actually. So, we're proceeding with the upper section pavement. We have asked for an extension from the Federal Highway Program to complete the bottom section, given the higher temperature that is preventing us from completing it. We sent in that request maybe two or three weeks ago, but we have not received any response from them whether they're in favor of our request. Although, we have spoken to some of the staff level members, and you know, their take on it was that it was a reasonable exception to make for us. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Director, just to clarity, when you submit these updates to Federal Highways, are you submitting directly to the Federal Government, or is there a process where we communicate through State of Hawaii Department of Transportation? What does that look like? MR. YAMAMOTO: Yeah, we communicate through counterparts at the State Department of Transportation with the Federal Highway program. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. MR. YAMAMOTO: So, we haven't received any—in our request, we also asked if we would be allowed to accept the upper section separately from the lower section in that same request, being that we would be able to finish the upper section sooner than the lower section. And you know, so we're waiting to hear from them if they would consider allowing us to accept and utilize the sections as we complete them. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So in your request, is there a specific timeframe that you put forward to Federal Highways and said, "I need a month, I need two weeks." What does that extension look like? MR. YAMAMOTO: Well we just sort of gave an overall, I believe a three-month extension request. But you know, we would proceed with the asphalt installation on the lower section as soon as the temperatures came to acceptable levels and complete it as soon as we can. Page 4 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So this was really a proactive step to insure that we get that 100 percent reimbursement from Federal Highways? MR. YAMAMOTO: Correct, because we anticipated not being able to meet the October 5fh deadline if we wait for the temperatures to reduce. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Director, I just want to talk a little bit about project costs. I was on the Federal DOT (Department of Transportation) website. There was a press release from February of this year about emergency relief allocations for all disaster -ridden areas across the United States. And it talks about Hawaii getting specifically $8.3 million for Kilauea Volcano eruption, earthquakes, and lava flow. Is that the total cost of Highway 132 restoration, or does that amount include restoration of other public roadways? MR. YAMAMOTO: That amount includes restoration of other roadways, presumably State Highways. Basically, our portion that they allotted or obligated to us was half the amount, about $4.15 million. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So half is being designated for 132, but what did you say is the total project cost of 132 restoration was? It's more than that isn't it? MR. YAMAMOTO: Our estimate was $11.9 million, and that was utilizing a contractor and consultants to design the road. But we designed it in-house, as well as we are actually acting as a general contractor and hiring out the various labor and equipment requirements. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, so let me make sure I get all this straight. Cost of doing 132 restoration to Federal standards, $11.9 million. Federal Highways said they're going to give us 100 percent reimbursement. MR. YAMAMOTO: Yeah. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Then we're allocated $8.3 million, and we're only getting half that? MR. YAMAMOTO: Yeah, and they said that's all we're going to get, $4.15 million. Although, they also reassigned $2.3 million, I believe from another project that didn't go forward. So, total we have about $6.5 million to complete this temporary road. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: But it costs $12 million? MR. YAMAMOTO: No, it's not going to cost $12 million, because we didn't consult the design out, and we didn't bid it out, the traditional bid and give it to a contractor to do. So we eliminated all that overhead and cost of having a general contractor do it. So, we're trying to keep track of our costs, and sorry I didn't get Page 5 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 the updated cost that we were, but it's going to come in close to that $6.5 million. If not, slightly over. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, so you're doing everything that you can to keep costs in control knowing that we have a significantly smaller pot of money to access and pay for this project. MR. YAMAMOTO: Right. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Can we relax any of the Federal standards, considering that they're only going to be giving us a third or half of what they said? MR. YAMAMOTO: No, we can't. Especially if we're going to ask that they participate in the permanent restoration of the highway, which would require an additional six inches of asphalt. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Thank you, director. And I appreciate your staff being willing to provide us with weekly updates on the progress of 132. Deputy Director Simeon called me to say that they would be providing weekly reports, so I appreciate you giving us as much information as you can so that we're all aware of what's happening on our island. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. I kind of want to yield to you becauseI mean, keeping it in context with that entire district, I think serves a better purpose. So go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you, David. And I'm glad that you were able to get out there and get it done. And I really appreciate the guys who are out there cutting, because if it's as hot as they're saying it is, and then sitting in those D -9's and cutting that road all day long it's going to be hot and it's going to wear on them. So I'm very thankful to have them out there and for them doing what they're doing. The community is more than ready to get back and use that access road. We had the nice option to be out there this, what was that, Friday? And we drove the roads and we saw how quick their access will be when this new road is opened compared to what it is now. Because right now, it's about half -an -hour to get around, around, and around to the PGV (Puna Geothermal Venture) access road and back to where Highway 132 is still existing. So this connector will be much appreciated by the community, and we know that because the road to recovery starts with roads. But, yeah, thank you, David. And I know we kind of gave you a ration early on and I just wanted to see more action and more follow-through. And you actually, you did. So thank you for doing that and for getting us a route back to—our community has been very isolated, so I appreciate it. Page 6 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 MR. YAMAMOTO: You're welcome. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Thanks David. David, when you were running into temperatures of 800 degrees, is that accurate? MR. YAMAMOTO: Right. The USGS (United States Geological Survey) was out there as well. They measured temperatures at 400 degrees C's (celcius), which is about 750 -something degrees. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, so following up on what Ms. Kierkiewicz was talking about, and you asked for a three-month extension. I was shocked that lava is that good an insulator to hold that heat for that long. Is three months enough? Is it going to be cool enough? MR. YAMAMOTO: Well we were judging by how we encountered some, you know, fairly hot spots on the upper section. Not as hot as 800 degrees though, but it has kind of cooled in the month that it's been opened. It cooled down to levels of that you may be able to install the asphalt treated base. MR. RICHARDS: I'm pretty sure the Federal Government does not have a lava heat standard that they need to deal with. So that being said, is there something that we as a legislative body working through our Federal representation, may be able to do for you to help kind of nudge that along? It reminds me of years ago during a drought mitigation for Hawaii. To receive payment we had to be a Western State. But the bureau recommendation was put in long before Hawaii was a state. So we actually had to go through our legislation so they could say, "Yes, Hawaii is a Western State." It kind of reminds me of that deal because it's new frontier. So if there's something that we can do, maybe we should get together and talk story about that and kind of nudge along the Federal DOT (Department of Transportation). With that, I yield. Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Anyone else? Sure, go ahead, Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Just one more question. Director Yamamoto, Highway 132. Is that also a potentially 428 project? MR. YAMAMOTO: No, FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) would not fund that project, being that it fell under the Federal Highway Program. Page 7 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thanks for clearing that up. And also, thank you for your support of Bill 12 monies and utilizing those funds to get kipuka residents back to their homes and farms. You know, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and I, we took a venture together on Friday, and it's nice to know that the work of this body contributed to getting people back home now rather than later. So, thank you for helping to make that happen. We appreciate it. Chair, I yield, thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Yamamoto, thank you. Thank you for being here and answering those tough questions, but being very bold and honest about the timelines. I really appreciate that. And I think that's what the community needs, right? We need to understand the expectations, but also manage those expectations. So with that, I think we have a motion to close file on Communication 425. All those in favor? Vote on Comm. 425: The motion to close file on Comm. 425 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. LEE LOY: Mr. Clerk, go ahead. Comm. 429: REQUESTS TO SHOW VIDEO PRESENTATION PRODUCED BY HAWAII ENERGY AND TO DISCUSS THE COUNTY'S ADOPTION OF THE INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated August 26, 2019. (Note: Comm. 429. 1, from Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy dated September 3, 2019, was circulated.) Motion to Close File: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to close file on Comm. 429. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR. LEE LOY: With that, if I could help the rest of my colleagues. I've been working with the Department of Public Works (DPW) on this and many other Building Code amendments and I have learned a lot. I think at some point, somebody's going to have to issue me an honorary architecture and/or engineering degree. We're heard a lot of public outcry regarding this IECC, which is the International Energy Conservation Code. And Denise Laitinen over at the Department of Public Works found this video, which really helped me understand in a very Page 8 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 lighthearted way, what the intent of the Code is and what the Energy Code Council is actually trying to achieve. So with that, as staff goes ahead and gets this up and running. (Note: At this time, a video presentation was shown regarding the International Energy Conservation Code featuring the comedy duo Da Braddahs. The video can be viewed online at: https://vimeo.com/257651635. As an alternative for viewing the presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office.) CHR. LEE LOY: So, thank you for entertaining this 14 -minute video. With that, what I'd like to do is call forward Mr. Yamamoto, and then, Robin. If you guys don't mind coming forward and start a little bit of the discussion. We heard testimony today of people in support of the IECC, but we also heard testimony regarding maybe other work -around solutions, which my understanding would require some amendments. (Note: At this time, Public Works Director David Yamamoto and Acting Building Chief Robin Matsumoto came forward to address the members of the Committee.) You know, the newspaper reported that Maui County and Kauai County adopted some amendments prior to the Code going into effect. And you know, we kind of missed the deadline. And so, I just want to go ahead and clear the air and just ask that question. Where was Hawaii County in implementing some amendments that would help adjust this IECC similar to that of Maui and Kauai County? Mr. Yamamoto, if you don't mind answering that question. MR. YAMAMOTO: Okay, good afternoon again. David Yamamoto, Director of Public Works. To give you the history of this particular Energy Code, 2015 Code adoption. As far as the County's role, at that time DPW Building Division was focusing on implementation and the Code amendments that would be required to support its new Intergov permit software, and was semi -distracted from the March 31 ", 2019 deadline. DPW's decision not to scramble in pursuit of County amendments before the looming deadline were based on basically two factors. The first being the importance of keeping Intergov on track to be launched. And the second, it was our understanding and remains our understanding that the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) adopting the Hawaii State Energy Code also referred that any amendments proposed by the County would be required to comply with HRS 46-1.513, which basically states that the County's amendments must be consistent with and not defeat the State Code. So with that, we felt that whatever amendments that the County could offer in addition to what the State had already done would be insignificant. Page 9 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 And you know, we already had provisions for a variance that would take into account any proposal to propose an alternative solution to what the State Energy Code was requiring, and that would go through the variance process and we would review it to insure that the intent of the State Energy Code was met and did not defeat that Code. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Yamamoto. That has been the million -dollar question, right? What type of work around solutions does Hawaii County have in light of the adoption of the IECC? Now you mentioned its compliance. And what I have in Communication 429. 1, if I could ask my colleagues to look at that but it's also on the screen. I've been working with the Administration to kind of identify a pathway forward. And Mr. Yamamoto has gone on record to say, you know, that we would be looking at the Maui and the Kauai exceptions that they moved in, but you just now spoke of Hawaii Revised Statues, about our limited authority and to insure that whatever amendments we are putting forward would not contradict the spirit of a State's Statues. And so, if I could actually get Rene Schoen, please, thank you. (Note: At this time, Assistant Corporation Counsel Renee Schoen came forward to address the members of the Committee.) On the slide, you guys will see the development of amendments. And I've placed a placeholder asterisk on that. And what I'm going to be asking Ms. Schoen, if you don't mind, my review of Hawaii Revised Statutes 107-28(a) provides the County authority to make amendments. But Hawaii Revised Statues 46-1.5(13) limits that authority. How do we move an amendment forward while meeting the spirit and intent of the IECC within the framework of the various statutes that we have to work with it? MS. SCHOEN: Good afternoon, Renee Schoen, Assistant Corporation Counsel. You know, it is an interesting question and I think our office has looked at it in the past. I hear the Department's position that they don't want to amend the State Code in any way that would conflict. You know, if you look at HRS Chapter 107 relates to the State Building and Design Standards. And particularly Part II of that HRS provision establishes a State Building Code, okay, which is applicable to all construction within the state of Hawaii. And it sets forth criteria, and basically says that, the State Building Code has to be based on the Fire Code, IBC (International Building Code), the IRC (International Residential Code), and this International Energy Conservation Code. HRS 107 explicitly reserves enforcement, permitting, you know, administration to the Counties. So the million dollar question is, can we adopt an ordinance that would be not as stringent. You know, there's also another provision in there, and I'm referring to Page 10 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 107-25. You know, it kind of supports the Department's position because it speaks to recognizing the model Code and the standards that are referred to in 107-25, which I just spoke of. So you know, we'll look at it and I'll get back to you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you Ms. Schoen for that, because I'm listening very loud and clear to the stakeholders, the design industry, architects; you know, just the industry in general about construction and how there is an incredible need for housing. But there are costs associated with that. I do look forward to what Corporation Counsel will opine on this position. Because if I look at the pathway forward, it would be develop the amendments with direction from Corporation Counsel and our Building Division, and then there would be a courtesy review by the State Building Code Counsel. And then if necessary, revise the amendments based on that courtesy review. But if Corporation Counsel comes back and says, "No, the County has its authority and it's vested in HRS 107." Then we could actually skip the courtesy review and the revised amendments and go from developing amendments straight to Committee and Council hearing. And in an effort to expedite some of those amendments in light of some of us missing the deadlines, I'd like to see how we move forward in a very efficient and effective way. So if you don't mind, Renee, I'll look forward to a communication. David, if you don't mind, or maybe Robin. You know we've been working on Administrative Code Revisions for the various Codes, the IBC, the IRC; the Fire Code. And without going too far about future legislation, and maybe David, is it possible for us to entertain the development of amendments for the IECC separate and apart from the Administrative code revisions? Can we possibly do this while still trying to stand up the Administrative code revisions? MS. MATSUMOTO: Good afternoon, my name is Robin Matsumoto, Acting Building Chief. In answer to your question, you know we can do it separately, but then it's repeating the process twice. Then it's going to delay our Administrative codes to a later date, which you know, supports some of the Intergov features that we're going to move into the end of the year. CHR. LEE LOY: I just want to leave it there just because if I can get your commitment that you guys have your eye on the ball and the timing elements, I'll be more than happy to help and push forward. One other thing that I have gotten from our Legislative Review Branch is a number of other Building Code or model code amendments that are coming forward. So it would be the IBC. And the deadline for County to adopt that is Page 11 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 November of 2020. Similar to that for the Residential Code. Then we have the Electrical Code, which is August of 2020. And then the Plumbing Code of 2020. And earlier today, in GREDC (Governmental Relations and Economic Development Committee) we heard Kauai not adopt. So, I'm very curious to see how other counties are doing that. And then I cannot forget the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association), which is our Fire Code. And so what I'd like to do is go ahead and highlight those dates so that we are back mapping various deadlines. So if there is a need for code adoption, that we're not going to miss the deadline like we did. But I think we also have to have Fire at the table, because you know, they have their own set of codes. With that, thank you for allowing me to lay some foundation for the rest of my colleagues. I know Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder is intimate with the Electrical Code, so if you don't mind. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you, David. Thank you, Robin. So not so much on the where we're headed side, but I'm more going to get some questions and answers. You know, one of our testifier's talked about enforcement, and that's always a big thing. What we're going to do and how we're going to enforce it. So buildings that exist already, permitted or unpermitted, how does the IECC affect them? And permitted or unpermitted is kind of a big issue, but we do have a lot of unpermitted homes in Puna that if they were to get permitted, what they have toand I'm guessing not just Puna, but across the island. If they were to go back to get permitted, how does this code change affect them? MR. YAMAMOTO: Okay for unpermitted structures, they would be required to comply with the code in effect at the time that they applied for the permit to properly permit their homes. So, they wouldn't have to comply with this new Energy Code. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If their permit was opened at an earlier date and they're coming back in to finally close the permit or bring work up to date and get it done, how would that affect them? MR. YAMAMOTO: Then they would follow the code that was in effect at the time they made the application. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay so if you had a home and you opened the permit in 2004, then the codes from then wouldn't affect them? So grandfathered in basically. So new codes wouldn't go back and affect older homes. Page 12 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 MR. YAMAMOTO: Correct. However, there's that, you know, provision in the current code, and we haven't actually executed it yet. But, building permits are only good for so long. You can request an extension if it's there's a contractor on contract to perform the work, I think they would be required to complete the work within three years. If it's an owner -builder, five years. And I forget what is the extension allowed for both of those if they run into some problems, there is a clause for extension on the permit. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, but we don't enforce that now? MR. YAMAMOTO: We haven't yet. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then for this code, who would be the enforcing body? It's always a big question, but who actually does the enforcement of making sure people adhere to the IECC? MR. YAMAMOTO: The Building Division would be. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Building Department. Do you have staff for that? MR. YAMAMOTO: They would be the same staff we have that's doing the building inspections. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think after being at theI went to the meeting that they did for the County, and they did two back-to-back meetings. One for County workers who got to process and got to go to the paperwork involved with this code amendment. And then too, there was another meeting that followed it that I didn't go to, which was more for the general public; for the contractors; for those who are going to have to work through the changes that we amend. And actually I'm going step back one notch. We are adopting this State Code because we have to, yes? And is there a give or take on that, we have to adopt this? MR. YAMAMOTO: No, if we don't adopt it, it goes into effect automatically, which it has. It went into effect March 31st MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. I remember that, that's why it's for the public in case they weren't aware. So we have to adopt this, it's done. And we are adopting it, and it actually went into effect March 31st. So we have been, from what I gathered, starting to do this on a kind of case-by-case basis and working it through our system to see what happens. Page 13 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 MR. YAMAMOTO: Yeah, we initiated in enforcing the requirements, so plans and applications submitted now would be required to meet that requirement—that new code. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And how's that process going for our staff and for the public? MS. MATSUMOTO: In general, it's a learning curve for both sides. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, any good feedback you've gotten from the public? Because usually they have the best ideas when it comes to how we can make it better. MS. MATSUMOTO: I haven't any direct feedback yet. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, do we have any—has there been any forums or outreach to see how we could do better? MS. MATSUMOTO: I think we've just gotten responses from maybe like Sue Lee Loy's constituents and some through the Mayor's Office. But you know, in general we haven't sent out any kind of feelers to anybody as we're working through these issues. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, because that could greatly help us shape any amendments that we do want to make or that we do feel as a County that we should do. Going down that path, I noticed when I was at that meeting there was some back and forth with the two gentlemen who were putting the meeting on, talking about the Tropical Code, because this Code was very broad on who it would take effect on. So our island is very different. We have so many different climate zones, but the Tropical Zoning really seems to fit for most of our island. Is that correct? MS. MATSUMOTO: In general, the Tropical Zone is based on elevation below 2,400 square, you know, feet. Yeah, a good number of population on this island. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, besides like Waimea and upper parts of maybe, Kona. MS. MATSUMOTO: And some upper parts of Mountain View are higher than like Volcano. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, like the upper part of my district. A lot of it's going to fall on the Tropical Zoning. MS. MATSUMOTO: But for the more density, it's more the Tropical Zone they can apply for an exemption, too. Page 14 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, but as I listened to the gentlemen who put the meeting on, there was some discussion back and forth with their own Building Department, and those guys as far as, you know why Tropical Zoning is included this but not this, and the point system. So how, can you kind of break that down a little bit? I don't know if I've given you enough information. MS. MATSUMOTO: Yeah, then two different prescriptive methods to qualify for the different types of exemptions. So the Tropical Zone like you mentioned, and then there's a point system where based on what type of materials you're using, you can—you know, the plus and minus balancing process. But beyond that I couldn't speak to more details. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. One interesting thing that came up was the door -blower test, which from what I can understand, there's only one guy on the island who's going to do that test. So we have kind of inadvertently created a monopoly for this man's business, which worries me. I hate that, because that means you could be on a very long waiting list to final your home. Or two, he's going to charge us a fortune for it, which is what anyone would do to in a capitalistic society. So do we—how are we doing on that? That was one piece I guess we could amend as to whether it is required? MS. MATSUMOTO: Yeah, based on Kauai County and Maui County, instead of, "shall" they changed the wording to, "may," as part, you know, of the blower test. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and I'm sorry, are we doing that too? MS. MATSUMOTO: We haven't made that amendment yet. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MS. MATSUMOTO: But then it could be based on a variance process. MR. YAMAMOTO: Yeah, I would say that would tend to weaken the Code, the State Code. You know by reducing that requirement, because that requirement specifically is for the leakage, which accounts for a lot of the energy lost in a home. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. But, yeah, definitely, yeah. MR. YAMAMOTO: You would want to consider it as well, but you know, it sounds like it's defeating the State Code, in my view. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, there were some good solutions that bounced around the room during that meeting. I'd like to make sure that we take Page 15 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 into account everyone's input on that. That issue especially, because that one stood out to me. MR. YAMAMOTO: It did to us too. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, good, good. I think the overall design of this is to lower energy costs. I mean right now, roughly 20 percent of the world's energy is consumed by AC (Air Conditioner) units. And that is going to—what it's going to lead to is a huge amount of global warming if we don't get in front of it. So I can see the negatives of this, but I can also see the pros of this. If anyone out here believes in climate change, and I think at this point we're beyond believing if it's true or not, then we need to start taking this into account. And if we're all putting AC's in our house, and they're blaming all the hot air from houses. And the energy being consumed and the hydrofluoric carbons that are coming out of them, then we have to be very aware. So I'm appreciative of this change, but I understand that we have some major architectural engineering changes on the front end. And then the contractors and the home owners who are building their homes are going to have to make some changes as well, which could be costly or not depending on how the—okay, I'll leave it with that. David, thank you. Yeah, I'll yield for now. If I have questions, I'll come follow up. Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Poindexter, go ahead. MS. POINDEXTER: You know, I understand global warming and all of that and how important it is for us to do things to address that. However, in my opinion, we're just putting affordable housing completely out of reach for a lot of our local families, you know, without—you know, it's like a State unfunded mandate. You know, they're making us do this. We have to do this, but there is no money to help us to get someone to, you know, do the testing of door air -blowing, whatever that was, so that the leakage and all of—and to hold people accountable to stay with the code. So it's unfunded, so we end up taking on more costs. How are we going to do it? We've got to raise money somewhere, you know, and where is it going to come out of—our pockets right? So I agree with the testifier who said, you know, we need to have options. They need to give us options. So I'm looking at putting either a resolution or a bill forward for our HSAC (Hawai`i State Association of Counties) package. I shouldn't talk about legislation, but you know, that says, hey State give the Counties that opportunity to create options for people who don'tI mean if you look inI swear, I don't think I know anyone that has installed, or maybe one person or one household. But if you look at the majority of people in my rural Page 16 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 communities, in the camps, how many of them have air conditioning? No, they have oscillating fans. Not even a ceiling fan that they can afford to go put into their room. So options like that, we have fans, we have some kind of things in the window that can deflect the light, or whatever it is. You know light in, heat out, or whatever. Something that doesn't require you to have to put a building overhang. You know, already we're failing the public when it comes to building permits, and the time it takes to get it, right? Putting this code in, can you just imagine how much longer it's going to take to get building permit? It's going to be totally ridiculous. So, you know, I see that our hands are tied or handcuffed by the State on this, and that it already went into effect. That's shameful on us in Government. I just received an email from a senator saying it's shameful not to follow the laws. But we've got to look at what is shameful when we put people in predicaments like this, especially our poor local rural families. I feel that, you know, it's so unfair to those who do not need that extravagant things in life. They're out working two to three jobs. So they're not home during the heat, right? They're out working. By the time they come home it's cooling off already. I leave a fan on for my little dog at home in the living room. I have no air conditioning. Windows are opened. The breezes are in. So for me, this is ridiculous. It's just that we're completely putting it out of reach for our families to have a home. I yield at this time. Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. And I really appreciate you pinging on that because we're not going to have affordable housing, and we have some work -around solutions that we're tossing around within the Admin Code. So I really do appreciate this feedback. It is being discussed. With that, Mr. Richards you have your light on. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Val, spot on. That's exactlyI heard when Ms. Hedrick was talking about. I get it, we're not going to argue that we have a climate change going on. We have people very mindful of that, but the cost of implementing some of these changes—it's real easy if you're in a high- income stream or whatever. But you know, this morning, it's been not a good day for affordable housing. We were told we have a growing level of poverty -level households in our County. In excess of 60 percent and growing the wrong direction. We are not improving. We have a need for 25,000 affordable units by 2025, I think is the year. And then we have more regulation, which means more expense coming forth. Page 17 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 And I know Val and I grew up in the dark ages with Maile and Karen. Oh, and Aaron, yeah. Where our foundation was a flat lava stone with a 4 x 4 on top. And I don't want to make light of the situation, but a little bit of humor is involved in that. And we seem to keep coming up with more ways and I get it. And I understand efficiencies, and I don't disagree with that at all. But we have to be able to fund those. And I'm bothered by the fact that we're going to increase the cost of our affordable housing substantially by having all these regulations, which means it's no longer going to be affordable. Our infrastructure costs are so high, and now we're going to increase our structure costs too. So Val, I completely agree with you. I think the Council agrees with this. I get it, I understand efficiency is good. But that being said, we have to be able to somehow afford it, and if we can't even house the people, we have many little kids that go to sleep hungry in this County right now. So I too much regulation. I'm going to yield because I'm getting upset. Alright, I'm getting fussy, so thank you, I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Richards. I think Ms. Villegas' light was first, and then I'll go to Ms. Eoff MS. VILLEGAS: Really interesting conversation. I myself grew up in a coffee shack, and you know, we took showers out of the water catchment tank and had an outhouse. And you live how can, if can, right? I guess for me what this tickled on is, you know, when I was going to UH (University of Hawaii) Manoa, it was the time and era of track homes; the Schuller Homes, and I'm forgetting the names of the other manufacturers that came in. You know, back in the day everybody had a different house on the street. There wasn't these very similar structures that you either picked which one you wanted or whatnot. So I guess there's just a little part of me that looks at a policy like this, and I would be interested to know what the actual numbers are because they are buying in such bulk and at such commodity pricing that I want to make sure that those organizations that are bringing in these track homes are building based on these Codes, and are utilizing these efficiencies. That in the long term saves money for our communities. But I also recognize, I mean my house right now was built in '74. We have louvers. You know, if there's no breeze, there's no breeze. I was out there trying to use a chainsaw this weekend to cut back some of the foliage so we have more airflow. But I just think there's context for all of these different things, and I think that's what we're recognizing here is the opportunity to utilize the correct context and how to make it relevant for the Big Island and for the community we have here and the circumstances that our different families are living within and amongst, but also hold accountable large construction corporations that come in and put in major housing developments and make sure that they're upholding the Page 18 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 highest potential. Once again, there's always a balance in cost and where that throws the cost. But I kind of get the impression that most of those companies are making a lot of money. And so being held to that higher standard. It's part of them having the privilege and the opportunity to build the homes that create the communities here. We know we need housing, but we need to make sure that those who are building them, if they are on large corporate kind of agendas, are being held to these better standards. And we need to take care of our people who can't even possiblyI mean, my husband, we're turning fans on-off, on-off But being really, really conscious. I've heard more people in the last week in Kona talk about putting in air conditioning than I may have ever in my life. And so, global warming is a reality. How we're going to deal with it, who we're going to deal with it with, and just taking a broader prospective and looking at some solutions and for what's going to be relevant for the context of the Big Island and our communities here. You know, it definitely touches my heart, what Council Member Richards said, we have children going to sleep hungry. And so, we want to make sure we're taking into consideration the human element in all of these circumstances. So, thank you for being in your role and your jobs, because you're being asked to balance these incredible engineering analytical, statistical requirements with a human element. And how do you place that requirement in the most appropriate places. So thank you, I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Ms. Eof£ MS. EOFF: Thank you. And I'm not sure who to ask this question, but I'm not sure, what were the amendments that Maui and Kauai were able to adopt? CHR. LEE LOY: There was a number related to insulation, to flooring. They were rather straight forward. And myself and the Department of Public Works already has combed through that, but we're also looking at other opportunities to provide maybe some other relaxed Building Codes just to help to stand up affordable housing, and other areas that would actually help accelerate housing. In my humble opinion, Kauai and Maui doesn't go far enough. And I just have to speak with passion in this moment that we are incredibly unique here in Hawaii island. And we just went through an eruption that wiped out 700 homes. And if these codes are being applied and not taking into consideration what's happening on the ground on our own island, this is how we take it back. And if passionately we can lobby the Building Code Council about the uniqueness and how we have been set back under this emergency situation, this is us fighting for our constituency. And this is how we're going to be able to deliver little bit relaxed codes to provide a lot more housing in an expeditious way. Page 19 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 MS. EOFF: So the reason for their amendments were along the same lines, but maybe didn't go far enough in your opinion. Were they trying to preserve like affordability? CHR. LEE LOY: I think it was more of availability of product, because that's the other thing I keep hearing from, you know, people like HPM is to bring in some of these window panes. It takes three months to get to Hawaii, right? So even for the industry itself to adjust, you know. MS. EOFF: So this to me would be more realistic. CHR. LEE LOY: I think so, but like Ms. Villegas says, I think we have an incredible opportunity right now, and to really drive how we look at taking care of our housing situation here on Hawaii Island with its unique needs. We talked about the 2,400 foot elevation, right? But we've got other things going on too here on this island that is unique and special just to us. So, yeah, I'm really actually excited. I'm glad that we can have this kind of robust conversation, because the other part we haven't talked about is how we remodel or rehabilitate our older homes, which provides unique and special characters to places like Honoka`a or Waimea. And for a remodel project that walks away from the character of that home, it breaks my heart that we're not going to start preserving the character of community in those special places because we have to follow, you know, a State mandate. Thank you. MS. EOFF: Thank you, and thanks for bringing this forward. CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. David. MS. DAVID: Yes, thank you, Chair. And I really want to applaud you for that statement because it's very sad, because if you look at history, especially in our building industry or just getting homes for our people here, it has been getting hard every decade. It's been getting harder to even build a house. And not to say that we have a housing shortage, but I think it is so expensive to even build a house now. It's so out of reach, and these kinds of things actually prevent more homes from being built and more kids from having to not afford to stay here. I like your idea, Chair Lee Loy, as far as working with the department, because with respect to amendments, I'm looking more in the lines of what you're saying. We are different. We're not an international place where everything is the same as everywhere else. I'm actually hoping that we can have exemptions from this code as opposed to amendments. I don't thinkI think an exemption could be Page 20 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 argued stronger for because of the things you speak of, and we're all talking about, and opposed to saying we want to amend your code. And you know, I think history tends to prove that government or agencies get defensive when we want to tell them how to do their job. But it's good, but it doesn't work entirely for different islands and different situations, especially the rural districts. So I'm really concerned about the rural districts, because at this point in time, we have the history of what has happened to our housing industry on this island especially. So, exemptions as opposed to amendments, and we can help as a body to push that request or that effort through, I think we can all get behind that, and send a big message or a strong message from the entire body. So, thank you, I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. David. I think just in capturing that, that's home rule. That's home rule at its best. With that, Mr. Chung, go ahead. MR. CHUNG: Thank you, Madam Chairman. And like the rest of my colleagues I'm not going to be talking specifically about the code itself or what kinds of proposals may or may not come up. You know, I just wanted to share my own thoughts, and I'm really encouraged by what I hear over here today. Because quite frankly, before the day began, I didn't know, you know, what the feeling of my colleagues were going to be. You know, the other day I had gone to the Hilo Muni Golf Course. I hadn't played golf since, you know, maybe around January I think. And then, I don't know if you guys know, but right along the 1 I' hole, there's a new residential development, big development. Very nice, and there were a lot of houses. You know January to now, it's vastly different. So I was riding around and just so happened, the guy I was riding with was a contractor. So we're riding and I said, hey, how much is a house like that now? And he tells me, oh that one, maybe about it's a nice house. It's a nice subdivision. He goes, "That one about $450,000 to build. That one maybe about $500K something." And I said, "What?" That's exclusive of the land, yeah. And then, you know, I said how can people afford that in Hilo now? And he said, "Hey, you know, it's not like when you built your house, which was many years ago." He said things have changed, you know. Material costs of course; labor, but he said more than anything else, it's the legislation. It's the laws, and you know, I really took that to heart. I mean it's not something that I didn't know. And you know, I will say this, to the credit of this Council. You know, like Ms. Poindexter and Ms. Eoff are the senior members here. Page 21 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 So I'm going to say this Council using them as the top end of this Council. I don't recall and I could be wrong, but I don't think we have passed any legislation that is increased—well with the exception of this one, where we kind of just let it go, yeah—but passed any legislation which would increase the cost of housing. So you know, I really wanted to applaud everyone here, and just listening to what I'm hearing. Everybody really empathizes with the plight of, you know, people who have to find housing in this community, our community. So I'm looking forward to seeing what comes up. You know, I think we are tasked with the responsibility of trying to help our residents deal with this, you know, the sky -rocketing costs of housing. So thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair Chung. Ms. Kierkiewicz and then Mr. Richards. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Council Member Poindexter hit the nail on the head when she talked about how this is going to severely impact affordable housing. This number of, got to have 20,000 homes built by 2025 really seems impossible to me when we have overly burdened some regulations like this that are maybe appropriate for other areas, but not for our island, not for our community. I got three different calls last week about how difficult it is right now for individuals to get affordable housing projects off the ground here in Hawaii County. Three. It's been years, years. They've been trying to get stuff off the ground. This is going to make it even more difficult. And so I'm listening very carefully because Chair Chung has asked me to represent this Council at a housing summit hosted by Senator Schatz on Thursday. So I'm listening very carefully and will be conveying just how difficult it is for us to get things done here. I mean we are making housing not only unaffordable, but the dream of owning your own home impossible with this kind of regulation. And so I just want to offer up to the department, similar to Council Member Richards and me, how we've formalized an apiary stakeholder working group. I think it's important to lean on industry in this situation, and make sure that they're a part of the conversation when taking a look at various amendments or exemptions to these codes. So, I hope that you can work with the industry because they're going to have to end with or live with whatever we end up deciding. So, thank you Chair, I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Richards, please take us home, we have a 2:30 coming up. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, this is real quick and I don't know if the answer is available, but I'm not sure if I direct this to you Chair. What is the expected Page 22 PWMTC-13 September 3, 2019 additional cost per unit percentage -wise with this? So I think we need to consider that, and if you have something off the top of your head, great. But if not, I'd sure like to hear about it. And I think the point is what Ms. David said about exemption, not amendments. Twenty-four hundred foot elevation on Mauna Kea and on the Hamakua Coast is very different than 2,400 foot elevation on Hualalai on the Kona Coast. Very different climates. And so I think the one size fits all, once again doesn't fit. So with that, I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Just to answer that question regarding the development clause, I have a number of people working on that just on a basic 1056 Malia Package Home, both at HPM and Honsador. So I'm actually getting some numbers as it relates to what these amendments do to the cost of housing. And it is my hope that as we develop amendments and/or exceptions, not only are they being driven by need, but still maintaining the spirit of the Energy Code, but valuing that against the cost associated with it. So with that if I don't hear any more from my colleagues, we have a motion to close file on Communication 429. Okay, one question, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I was going to ask the same question that Tim asked, what is the expected rise in cost of the average, say building. So that I'd be really interested to hear that. And I need to say this too, because I heard what the Council had to say, but the correlating the cost of housing to IECC codes doesn't quite hold true. There's a lot of different costs. There's a lot of different reasons for cost increase in housing. So to say that this code is going to affect the cost of housing, I think, is a little bit out of place. It's a piece of it, but not quite the entire package. And I think we just need to clarify that. And to say that children will be out in the streets because we're doing this code amendment seems a bit—almost going a bit too far. Just got to say that. I've been to Kona. I've done solar houses that run their AC 24 hours -a -day, and there's nobody in the home. I'm putting PV (Photo Voltaic) on the same house. And they're spending $40,000, $50,000, $90,000 on a PV system so they can run their home's a/c, the pool. You know, there's a lot of energy being expended there with no one in the home. So I think we should be aware of who we're going to affect, but also be aware of everything that's happening in the world and on our island at the same time. I appreciate you letting me say that, but just putting that out there. CHR. LEE LOY: Yeah, I hear you, but they're also running a pool. And most people, most families don't have a pool. So let's talk about that, right? Anyway, I see Mr. Chung's light on. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I mean just so that there's no misunderstanding here. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that this is the end all, but this is—it's just Page 23 PWMTC-13 September 3,2019 that legislation sometimes leads to higher costs and this is just one example. Yeah. Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair Chung. And you're right, it's a complex issue. We've got the UPC (Uniform Plumbing Code) the IRC, the IBC. We've got the IECC; we've got the Fire Code. You and me Matt; everybody here. You and I, we have the best skill sets to tackle this one. So with that, I have a motion to close file on Communication 429. All those in favor? Vote on Comm. 429: The motion to close file on Comm. 429 was carried by the (Filed) following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Bills ORDINANCES: for Ordinances. (There were none.) CHR. LEE LOY: Motion to adjourn, please. ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 2:36 p.m., Ms. David moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. • c . L. K. -- < hair (Date) ' .lie Wo an. Com ttee SL/dt Page 24