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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PC 2019/08/06 2018-2020Committee on Planning 14th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii August 6, 2019 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Planning was called to order at ORDER: 11:32 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz, Chair. R(1T T CAT r Present: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Ms. Karen Eoff, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PT TRT .TC CW AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Dwight J. Vicente: Comm. 386; and Bill 90 (Comm, 366), comment. Neil Gyotoku: Bill 90 (Comm. 366), in opposition. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 386: NOMINATION OF SUSAN FORBES, NICOLETTE CB HUBBARD, CAROL R. IGNACIO, DR. TAWN ISAAC KEENEY, CRYSTAL KUA, BRAD R. KUROKAWA, JEFF MCKNIGHT, ROBERT T. NISHIMOTO, AND RHONDA DARLING POLLARD TO THE INAUGURAL HAMAKUA COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT PLAN ACTION COMMITTEE From Mayor Harry Kim, dated July 18, 2019, submitting for the Council's review and confirmation the above nominations. Requires Council Confirmation by: August 31, 2019 (Section 13-4(l), Hawaii County Charter) PC -14 Motion to Approve Vote on Motion to August 6, 2019 Ms. Poindexter moved to recommend confirmation of the appointments of the individuals listed in Comm. 386 to the Hamakua Community Development Plan Action Committee. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Council Members, our Council Rules, specifically number 10, do not allow us to vote on a group of individuals. We must do that individually. So I would like to entertain a motion to suspend Rule 10. Suspend Council Rules (Approved) Vote on Comm. 320: (Approved) Ms. Poindexter moved to suspend Council Rule 10 to allow Council Members to take a single vote on the entire slate of nominees rather than taking individual votes for each. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. (Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor Rose Bautista came forward and introduced each nominee individually to the members of the Committee.) The motion to recommend confirmation of the appointments of the individuals listed in Comm. 386 to the Hamakua the Hamakua Community Development Plan Action Committee was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointments. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: We're going to take a three-minute recess to just mahalo the CDP (Community Development Plan) committees and take a photo. And then we're going to be moving on to Bill 90. Thank you. Three-minute recess. Recess: At 12:14 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 12:21 p.m. Page 2 PC -14 August 6, 2019 CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Aloha. I am going to be calling the Committee on Planning out of recess and back into session. The time is 12:21. Mr. Clerk, if you could please read in Bill 90. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions. (There were none.) BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 90: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-33 (CITY OF HILO ZONE MAP), ARTICLE 8, CHAPTER 25 (ZONING) OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT CLASSIFICATION FROM AGRICULTURAL — THREE ACRES (A -3a) TO SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL —10,000 SQUARE FEET (RS -10) AT WAIAKEA, SOUTH HILO, HAWAII, COVERED BY TAX MAP KEY: 2-4-080:013 (Applicant: Charles Umemoto) (Area: approximately 7.631 Acres The Windward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for this amendment, which would allow the applicant to apply for a subdivision of the property into 27 lots. The property is located at the end of Mailani Street, on the west side of Ho`omalu Street, Waiakea Homesteads. Reference: Comm. 366 Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend passage of Bill 90 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. David. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Will the applicant and/or their representative please come forward? (Note: At this time, Craig Linder, representative for applicant Charles Umemoto, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR KIERKIEWICZ: If you could introduce yourself for the record. MR. LINDER: Hi, my name is Craig Linder, representing Charles Umemoto. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Would you like to provide us with a brief overview of the request? Page 3 PC -14 August 6, 2019 MR. LINDER: Our request is to hopefully get the rest of the—all the area conforming with the housing and lots currently located around it, and to create more housing in the area. That's pretty much our goal. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. I also see members from the Planning Department here. I just want to say for the record that there was a favorable recommendation from the Commission and the Planning Department; if I could get Jeff (Darrow) or Director Yee. (Note: At this time Planning Director Michael Yee and Planning Program Manager Jeff Darrow came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR KIERKIEWICZ: There were a couple of assertions made earlier about grub and grade permit, and drainage studies, so I was just hoping for some clarification on that. I just wanted to confirm that there is in fact a grubbing and grading permit, and that a drainage study will come at some point, in the process, as stipulated in the draft ordinance. MR. DARROW: Good morning, Committee Chair and Council Members. Jeff Darrow, with the Planning Department. That is correct. We've just learned that there has been a grubbing permit issued to the property. This was back in May, for the entire seven -plus acres. And that's different than a grading permit. So this will be more, just clearing of trees and kind of clearing the lot. As they move forward, I'm sure they'll have to come back in with a grading permit which will—prior to that, they'll have to do a drainage study. In referencing our conditions, we have a number of conditions relating to drainage and grading. If I can reference myI believe it starts with Condition I, which requires a drainage study. We have Conditions J and K which also talk about the grading activity shall conform with Chapter 10 and with Chapter 27 of the Hawaii County Code. There is a concern that was brought up during the hearings as well as even today regarding flooding in this area. It pretty much states in Condition I that the applicant has to comply with this condition that says, "All development generated runoff shall be disposed of on site and shall not be directed toward any adjacent properties. A drainage study shall be prepared by a licensed civil engineer and submitted to the Department of Public Works prior to issuance of a construction permit," and that they will have to do any recommended improvements as required by the Department of Public Works. The misunderstanding is that people think if there's a drainage problem now, that by this development coming in that it will be resolved, and that's not necessarily the case. They just can't increase it, so there will still be flooding issues. They Page 4 PC -14 August 6, 2019 just have to be able to manage it so that it's not increased. There are situations that you'll find where there's, you know, quite a bit of pavement put down on a project. And so they'll be able to continue to manage that drainage. They have to put in drywells and other type of improvements. So that's going on the applicant if he has to—to be able to comply with these requirements. This is an area that is identified in Zone X, which kind of indicates it's really not an area of flooding issues. But apparently when there's heavy storms and rains, that there is localized flooding in this area. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Darrow, for the clarification. Any questions or comments from my colleagues? Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Jeff, for reporting on those things. You know, this is up in my area, and there is a lot of flooding. I have someone from Public Works coming forward, and I'm going to just put a pin in my time right now. But when he does show up, there's a few questions that I want to share with my fellow colleagues about some Army Corp of Engineers work that is going to be done in the upper Waiakea Uka area which hopefully, if all goes as planned, is to begin to mitigate a lot of what is already happening as far as flooding in the Waiakea Uka area. Some various, I wouldn't call them diversions, but channelizations to get the water back into the respective floodways, and then get them into flood canals in which they can carry the type of water that is coming from the upper Waiakea Uka area. So at this time I invite the rest of my colleagues to go ahead and ask questions about this particular application as we wait for Bryce from Department of Public Works. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Do you have an ETA (Estimated Time of Arrival) on Bryce? MS. LEE LOY: I was told he's on his way. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Perfect. Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. And I do appreciate whatI'm not sure what Council Woman Lee Loy's bringing forward. I think this does fit in with what we're trying to do as far as housing and all that. But that being said, for the two -plus years, I've been very concerned about the neighbors, and always concern about the neighbors. Private citizen Gyotoku came in today concerned about it. It doesn't matter who raises the concern, I have to listen to the concern coming forward. Page 5 PC -14 August 6, 2019 I hear what you're saying about there's a process coming forward, and mitigation, and this all being reviewed, but I'm still concerned that it's not quite there yet. So I think I'm going to also wait to hear some conversation. And I do appreciate what you said, Jeff. The water coming off of a property cannot be increased. But this is Hawaii, and if it starts way up high, there's water coming down. You're not responsible for all that water coming down, so I got that. But I do raise a concern because I'm always concerned about the neighbors. So at this point, I'm going to yield and just hold for a minute. Thanks. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Chair Chung. MR. CHUNG: Neil, can you come up here? I mean, since you took time off from your work. Maybe if you can just share with us what you've talked about with your experience with the runoff from that area. (Note: At this time, Mr. Neil Gyotoku came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. GYOTOKU: During the 2000 floods, about 200 feet of Haihai was ripped out. The drainage on that side overflowed, and a lot of the water came down Ho`omalu Street. My concern, we have drainage canals but they're not capable of handling the water that's coming down. And my concern is that although they say they're going to handle within their own subdivision, the water runoff, I cannot believe that it's not going to increase the amount of water coming down. Ho`omalu Street sits about, I would say 15, 20 feet below this proposed project, so naturally it's going to run down. MR. CHUNG: How about since 2000? MR. GYOTOKU: I have a picture. Last year Hurricane Lane, that thing overflowed, and every time a havoc hurricane like that comes, I would put cement blocks in front of my driveway to block the water from coming in. And the dangerous part about it, Mr. Chairman, is that it runs down to the bottom part of the subdivision. So as bad as I have it, that person down there gets it ten -fold. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. I mean, but what's kind of perplexing is this thing is in the Zone X, an area determined by FEMA to be within an area of minimal flood hazard. I'm sure the experts will take a look at this thing. I know, Jeff, what you said, "It's not to eliminate all of the flooding that's happened in the past," it's just to make sure that additional runoff is not occurring. Anyway, you have the concerns. And the Public Works Department will have to start doing their work too because we don't want, as Mr. Richards says, "Create more hazards." I'm primarily concerned about flooding and traffic. Okay, thank you. Thanks, Neil. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair Chung. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Page 6 PC -14 August 6, 2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good morning, Jeff. MR. DARROW: I appreciate that the applicant is actually willing to do all the things asked, without asking for any negotiations or variances of any kind. I do appreciate that because we don't get that very often. As far as what you were saying, yeah, I've seen that area flood. I mean, anytime you clear property and take away the natural flora and fauna, you're going to create—especially when you pave and put driveways and put houses, you're going to create water because there's nowhere for it to go into the ground anymore. How to rectify that? You know, I am not an engineer. But I would agree that what Neil is saying is right, starting from there and working its way down, you're going to see a lot of flooding. It's just going to get worse, the more we clear that area and put more houses. So if we do have any kind of Army Corp of EngineersI know it's coming. Without being too common sense, the more we clear and the more we pave, the more water is going to be running down the hill. Doesn't matter what we do; it's going to happen. I'm not here to argue whether there is or isn't flooding. But I do appreciate what you guys have chosen, to actually follow what's in the document. Thank you. MR. DARROW: If I could just make a simple comment based on Council Members Lee Loy's comment? CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, please. MR. DARROW: The Planning Department just received a copy of the Environment Report for this project, so we're reviewing it at this time. It is a good project. It looks like it's going to really address a lot of these issues that are being brought up today. So we're looking forward to seeing that go through and then being able to be constructed on the ground. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Just to clarify, you received a copy of the Army Corp of Engineer's work? MR. DARROW: Correct. Yes. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. And it is available online for review, at the OEQC (Office of Environmental Quality Control) website. Looks like it's going to be an excellent project. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and thank you. I would say probably six months ago now, the Army Corp of Engineers met with area residents, both at—near the golf course, further up where Waiakea Uka Gym is, where a lot of this flooding is occurring. There's a lot of multiple factors happening. Yes, some of the work up mauka. Page 7 PC -14 August 6, 2019 We have a lot of streams that need maintenance, and that costs a lot of money to do. I'm glad to hear that the Planning Department is utilizing this Army Corp of Engineers study and utilizing the data and the runoff to help guide future planning in which this department, the Planning Department, creates various conditions of approval to help supplement what already the Army Corp of Engineers has identified as areas of improvement. I guess right now I really am trying to buy some time so that we can get Public Works in here to express to this body what the larger goal of the work for the Army Corp of Engineers is to do, including the amount of water that they are trying to get back into the areas that can handle it. So with that—but thank you, Jeff. I appreciate that the Planning Department is using all the tools available as far as data studies and recovery studies, and water runoff studies to help our conditions of approval for future zone changes. So, thank you. I yield. MR. DARROW: Thank you. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Chair Chung, do you have additional comments? Your light is on. MR. CHUNG: Oh, yeah. I just wanted to make one more comment, too, with regard to the 2000 flooding situation. Subsequent to that, we had the construction of that bridge on Kawailani, right, which was intended to address a lot of those problems too, and I think it has. You know, Hurricane Lane was an extraordinary situation. But again, you heard the comments from a person who has been affected. I think it would behoove the County and the developer to really take those things to heart, yeah, because it is very important. Okay, thank you. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair Chung. We have Robyn Matsumoto from Public Works here. Could you come forward and talk story with us about the drainage study that the Army Corp of Engineers is conducting in the upper Waiakea Uka area? (Note: At this time, Acting Building Division Chief Robyn Matsumoto came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. MATSUMOTO: Good afternoon. My name is Robyn Matsumoto. I am the Acting Building Chief. Regarding the flood study that the Army Corp is doing, what questions do you have regarding that? Anything specific? MS. LEE LOY: Well, actually, Robyn, if you could kind of encapsulate an overall—what the project is intended to do. The various channelizations that are Page 8 PC -14 August 6, 2019 happening further up mauka, near Waiakea Uka Gym, along Four Mile Creek Bridge, along the golf course, where we're actually trying to get the water back into the various flood areas. MS. MATSUMOTO: So unfortunately, I'm not as familiar with the project as Bryce Harada, who I thought was going to be here. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Robyn, so the concern on the table is right now we have a request before us, through Bill 90, which is to rezone and create some additional lots on Mailani Street which is between Kawailani and Haihai, I believe. So there have been some concerns expressed by neighbors few blocks away about drainage and flooding in the area, and concerns about this project contributing to that, which is of interest to us because FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) noted that this area is flood Zone X. MS. MATSUMOTO: Correct. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: So minimal flooding. MS. MATSUMOTO: I mean, if it's designated as "X" by FEMA, you know, there may be localized drainage issues, you know, like storms in the area, but don't expect it to be a big concern. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And what we were just hoping to glean is this bigger study that's happening by Army Corp of Engineers is what we could potentially learn from that to help to help mitigate flooding issues related to this project and other projects. MS. MATSUMOTO: So I believe the Army Corp's study is channelizing, trying to increase the volume of the channel to keep the water within that area. I'm not exactly sure how close it is to this particular project. We'd have to get back to you on that. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Mr. Gyotoku, I'm just going to go out on a limb here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not trying to stop this project, because you're the head of Housing and you recognize the importance of increasing the housing stock in our community. What you're trying to do is just ask a question around flood mitigation, the drainage, and ensure that should this project go forward, that mechanisms are put in place so that there's no adverse impact on surrounding communities. Does that encapsulate your concern? Maybe come forward and state for the record. Thank you. (Note: At this time, Mr. Neil Gyotoku came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. GYOTOKU: Neil Gyotoku, private citizen. I'm not talking for Housing, because yes, that's my job. I don't want to stop the project. But I'm concerned Page 9 PC -14 August 6, 2019 that there was a drainage study that needed to be done, and I wanted to see it to make sure that they would be able to handle the water at that subdivision. Because I took pictures yesterday, and they cleared all of the lot. It's about 20 feet above Ho`omalu Street, so all of the—you know, naturally the water lucky thing we didn't have a rain event. But the water will come down into that neighboring subdivision, Ho`omalu Street. I just want to see how this project will be able to handle the water. The drainage study, I was told was supposed to be done. I was concerned that it seems like they're going to go forward before this drainage study has been made. Then I was told it's going to be before they do actual construction of the project. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. Mr. Darrow, I need you to jump back into the hotseat really quick. It seems to be me that a similar situation came before our body. A few months ago there was a project in Waimea. I believe it straddles Council Member Poindexter's and Council Member Richards' districts, where there were neighbors concerned about drainage and flooding, and they thought that these studies needed to happen before our body had granted the rezoning. And so, we built in the conditions like you've done here, that the study needed to happen before any movement could take place. Is there difference in the language between that project ordinance and this one, with the relation to the requirement of the drainage study, and when that is completed in the process? MR. DARROW: There is a difference. I think that particular project that we're referring to, I believe, it was right in Waimea, where they were accessing the road. It was a long, skinny lot, and there was issues with drainage. I think we said that they had to do the drainage study before any permit, any land altering permits. So, it wasn't just construction permits. So in this case, the applicant has already received a grubbing permit. If that language was in the proposed rezoning conditions, I'm not sure what we do because it appears this grubbing permit was issued prior to us even coming to this body. So we're in a tough situation here. I mean, we can say, "No further land altering permits." I think at this point, the next step is that they will have to come in for the drainage study. There's really no other type. They're not coming in for a grading permit. Before that drainage study, they have to do that. So that would be the next step in this project. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: So if we grant the rezone, they would have to do the drainage study? MR. DARROW: Yeah. The difference is that if we had that language proposed, they may not have gone out and gotten the grubbing permit, and done what they've done at this point. So that's the difference between this project and the Waimea project. Page 10 PC -14 August 6, 2019 CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. Man of the hour, Bryce from Public Works is here. (Note: At this time, Civil Engineer Bryce Harada came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Lee Loy had asserted to an Army Corp of Engineers study regarding flooding, so I'm going to turn it over to her to ask you some questions and to elaborate. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Before I get a little further down this, just so that Bryce can collect his thoughts, I wanted to ask Mr. Gyotoku a couple more questions. Because you talked about various events in which the flooding occurred. You know, you mentioned 2000. And I think Mr. Chung could probably allude to—that was an exceptional rain event back in 2000, when a lot of that flooding occurred. And then, with Lane, again another large rain event. I know you've taken pictures of the area. I'm trying to get a correlation between these hundred year storms which generate enormous amounts of rain compared to an average rainy day or rainy week up in Waiakea Uka, and if it's more related to the situation of the drainage canals not being managed or cleaned out. Or even some of our drywells being managed properly, that kind of increases some of the water runoff in the area. MR. GYOTOKU: You are correct. The 2000 flood, they did do some mitigation work above that, in the Waiakea Uka, you know, by the gym area, and that has alleviated much of the flooding problem, like that. However, whenever we have a large rain event, such as a tropical storm, a major flood event, the drainage canals in Ho`omalu Street are not adequate. These were built about 30 years ago. There's no real formal channel, and it just flows. I myself built a wall in front of my property. But that's part of the issue that doesn't—the culvert across my driveway is not big enough, yeah. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I think that's some of the other issues, right? We have subdivisions that were developed 20, 30, 35 years ago in which the standards back then were very different from what they are now. And so we are trying to infill an area, which is what our General Plan calls for when we're utilizing the infrastructure, in hopes to leveraging that infrastructure, to improve infrastructure in the area. But with that, Bryce, I had shared with this body that recently, probably about six months ago, the Army Corp of Engineers is proposing some mitigation work as far as rechannelizing water from further up mauka, near Waiakea Uka Gym, near the golf course. Could you provide this body with a brief overview of what that project entails? One, high level; and two, and I know you have it, is some of the water or the amounts of water that will be guided back into the various flood channels that they should be in? As close to the amount of water you can get. Page 11 PC -14 August 6, 2019 Because I know it's a lot. I know it's a lot of water that they're trying to get back into the floodways. MR. HARADA: Bryce, from Public Works. So to answer your question, yeah, the Army Corp—and we're the local sponsor for that particular study. So for that one, they have—right now they have three proposed sites. They one up by New Hope Church; they have a levy system planned out over there. They have one above the Waiakea Fairway Subdivision, in the golf course, and that's going to be proposed a detention, basin. And then they have another one by Ainalako, which is some diversion structure in that area. So that's more or less the three basic proposed alternatives that they have right now. As far as the amount that they're planning to rechannel or put into the areas, I'm not too sure on the exact numbers. MS. LEE LOY: Maybe you want to share too, because this Army Corp of Engineers and County is the sponsor, but it's the Army Corps of Engineers is bringing the money and the resources to help with some of that. You know, just share with this body how we're partnering with them, with these three options to help mitigate the following in the area. MR. HARADA: Yeah, so we're the local sponsor for this particular study, so we pay a portion for the study. But the majority of the work is done by the Army Corps of Engineers. We had requested, and I'm not sure on the exact date, but we requested the Army Corp's assistance for this particular project awhile ago. So that's generally—we pay a portion. MS. LEE LOY: So, Bryce, Army Corps of Engineers, you guys are the local sponsors. Contained within the Change of Zone application is the Condition I, that "All development -generated runoff shall be disposed of on site," and a drainage study submitted to the Department of Public Works. So you guys become this critical pinch -point, between the Army Corps of Engineers study and what the proposed mitigation measures will be with the work being done up mauka, and then dovetailing this drainage plan. So you guys become that focal point, to ensure that the water is being mitigated and being maintained on site. Is that an accurate assertion? MR. HARADA: So Condition I of this development runoff is going to be contained. That's kind of like a general requirement that we require for a lot of the developments. Not necessarily for the—take into account the Army Corps Engineers study or any of that. But this is just saying that they're going to take care of all the onsite drainage, and not going to increase it or make it worse for the downstream properties. Page 12 PC -14 August 6, 2019 MS. LEE LOY: You guys would also have the data from the Army Corps of Engineers, right, to make sure that the drainage study is fitting in with all of the mitigative measures? MR. HARADA: Oh, yeah. That's correct. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I invite any of my colleagues to ask any questions of this smart engineer in front of us. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Council Members, any questions? No more questions? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, sir, so you do or do not incorporate the Army Corp of Engineer's data into your plan? I mean, I watched you walk through that questioning line and it seems like that at the very end you did agree, but at the beginning you didn't. So, yes or no? MR. HARADA: For this? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. MR. HARADA: This particular one, it's no. I mean, this is justat least my understanding, it's just a general comment that is made. We do look at upstream conditions, too. I guess this is just to fulfill this. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's normal. That's our normal wording, yeah? MR. HARADA: Yeah, normal wording. Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So when they plan a community like thisI mean, it's not even a community. This is like 27 lots at the end of a street, well, the end of an existing street, and it's going to be the middle of the street at some point. We're adding 27 lots, and we're just mitigating the water coming from the 27 lots. Is that right? So just the water that runs off of—and the site is not each individual lot. The site is that 27 lots as a whole. On both sides; one is Mailani Street, and the other is this street, parallel to, on the other side. So we're just mitigating the water on those lots. That's it. That's what we're talking about? MR. HARADA: Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Not all of Waiakea Uka. Not all of the whole area, just those 27 lots. MR. HARADA: Yes, this conditions is just talking about that particular area. Page 13 PC -14 August 6, 2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I don't have anything else. Thank you. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Chair Chung. MR. CHUNG: Jeff, let's revisit this whole idea of the drainage study, okay? I know you were saying it's going to be difficult because they've already grubbed. But is there a place that we can require a drainage study? I mean, it can be after approval. But I'm just wondering, how would we ever know if we don't have the drainage study? How would we ever know that they have mitigated or kept everything on site without that drainage study? MR. DARROW: Thank you, Chair Chung. The difficulty, and I think we actually discussed this at the Waimea hearing, the difficulty with requiring certain studies prior to approval is you know, it's just where do we stop right? There comes a point that a particular type of study would be something that's in concert with the actual development itself. So as they're coming in, they have to do their drainage study to determine how they're going to mitigate all that, along with their grading permit, and then be able to come in with construction plans to do the overall subdivision. That's all part of that. But again, I haven't seen that in the past where we've required a drainage study prior to submitting a change of zone application. MR. CHUNG: Oh, no, no, no. I'm not suggesting that. MR. DARROW: Okay. MR. CHUNG: But I just wanted to make sure that there is a place for this drainage study. MR. DARROW: Most definitely. MR. CHUNG: Because we need the baseline, right? We need to know. MR. DARROW: Yeah. And again, the difference between this one and the last one is we had said that even prior to any land altering permit. So, they couldn't come in with a grubbing or grading permit prior to that. We can suggest that now, just to change the wording on Condition I, to say instead of construction permits, that we make it clear going forward, even any land altering permits that they come in with a drainage study. That might make it more comfortable as far as going forward. Because the way it's worded right now, it's construction permit, and that's you know, basically that's going to be coming in when dwellings are coming in—and stuff. They have to come in for subdivision, and prior to that, that's when all the drainage issues have to be dealt with. Page 14 PC -14 August 6, 2019 MR. CHUNG: And what happens when—what does the County do with these drainage studies? Do we just take the word because it's a consultant, right, that's going to be doing that? MR. DARROW: That would be a Bryce question or a Robyn question. But I would think, just like with our traffic studies, we get traffic studies for consultants. Our County engineers review it, and majority of the times they have issues with the study. MR. CHUNG: Oh, okay. MR. DARROW: So they'll tell them to revise it. MR. CHUNG: So there is a checks and balances. MR. DARROW: That would be my understanding, the same with the drainage studies. MR. CHUNG: That's true. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Robyn, can you clarify? MS. MATSUMOTO: That's correct. Once we get a stamped -report from another licensed engineer, we evaluate it. And basically what we're looking at, is what's the existing condition, right, it's agricultural zone. Now it's going to be changed to a RS -10. There's going to be roads, sidewalks, so we're looking at that as the impermeable surfaces. We kind of guesstimate on what the size of the houses are going to be because we don't really know, in order to determine what that post construction is. And then we try to take the difference, and that's how much they have to eitherdrywells or infiltration basin. So basically, what comes in is what supposed to go out. And anything you actually generate on the property, it supposed to be dealt with on the property. MR. CHUNG: So basically you're going to review what comes in, the way of a drainage study, and you could impose more requirements based on what? MS. MATSUMOTO: Correct. Yeah, if we feel like they're not accounting for enough square footage that's going to be impermeable, then we're going to say that. MR. CHUNG: Okay, yeah. MS. MATSUMOTO: And if something if there's a big change, and when construction comes in, I'm sure we have the exact same responsibilities. And say, "Hey look, now you're building these monster homes, so now you've got to account for more drainage." Page 15 PC -14 August 6, 2019 MR. CHUNG: Right. Okay. Okay, that's good. And then, is there a place for some of the neighboring people to provide input? MS. MATSUMOTO: I mean, because what we do, is after the subdivision is approved, we get the tentative approval which indicates what they are allowed to build, and that's how we determine our drainage reports. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, okay. MS. MATSUMOTO: So I'm assuming the comments come in before that gets issued. MR. CHUNG: Alright. Okay, thank you. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Eoff. MS. EOFF: Thank you. Jeff, would you suggest some additional language in that condition so that we can assure the neighbors that before any further alterations occur, that we would have seen the drainage study and been able to require some kind of wording in there that would reassure them? MR. DARROW: Sure. I would suggest that on Condition I, sentence number two, replacing "issuance of a construction permit" to state "issuance of any land altering permit." MS. EOFF: Land altering permit. MR. DARROW: Permit, yeah. And again, unfortunately there already had been a grubbing issued. They have conditions on that grubbing permit that they have to comply with as far as best management practices, and stopping runoff and things like that. Just to be clear, that any future grading permit, or something, could not be granted until they do this drainage study. MS. EOFF: I would like to see something like that put in if my colleagues agree. It would certainly make, at least Mr. Gyotoku's time here, and bringing thisI mean, it's a cart before the horse thing. I understand about that, but at least it's something. Maybe Planning Chair could work with you, if you think that's a good idea. But, I like that idea. Thank you. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Eoff. I'm going to address your suggestion right after Mr. Richards has his chance to question. MR. RICHARDS: So I have the floor, Chair? CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Sure. Page 16 PC -14 August 6, 2019 MR. RICHARDS: Thank you. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Why not? MR. RICHARDS: So just a geek question. Seven acres; one acre, one inch of rain, so 200,000 gallons for one inch. So when you calculate this, are you basing the water runoff—and I don't know who I'm asking the question to but it's going to be an engineer, so probably you. You base this upon an estimates rainfall of x - number of inches per hour, and thereby you size your drywells based upon the capacity of that drywell with a percolation? I mean, I realize it's not a simple question, but is that how you do this? And based upon hard surface—what was it? Seven acres, and you figure maybe half of it is going to be covered, so three - and -a -half acres, etcetera, etcetera. MS. MATSUMOTO: We definitely look at how much the size of the road is going to be. How much area is going to be impermeable, and how much is going to change from the agricultural. Like maybe it's going to be like a residential lawn type of area, so that's going to have a different infiltration than the original. We look at a 10 -year storm. If they're going to be designed for culverts, we're going to be looking at a 50 -year storm event. So we change the infrastructure based on the different type of storm quantities. MR. RICHARDS: Dependent upon the region, so dependent upon annual rainfall involve. MS. MATSUMOTO: Correct, we have different zones all over the County. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. MS. MATSUMOTO: You can actually also use alternative methods and look at different rainfall events for actual events that have happened. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. I'm going to let the Chair take over again because I'm inclined—again, we worry about the neighbors, and I don't think that's a bad thing to worry about. We want this to go forward. We want to make sure the neighbors are taken care of. So I'm going to yield at this point, Chair. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Craig, if you could come forward, please. (Note: At this time, Developer Craig Linder, representing the applicant, came forward to address the members of the Committee. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: If you just want to share any thoughts about the discussion we're having. There is a suggested amendment on the floor to Condition I regarding the timing of the drainage study in relation to granting any Page 17 PC -14 August 6, 2019 further land alteration permit. So I just wanted your thoughts on that before we move forward. MR. LINDER: Okay. We've already hired a civil engineer to do the study for the drainage. One of the requirements the engineer had was we had to have topo survey done by a licensed surveyor. The property up there was so overgrown that nobody could give us accurate answers without actually taking out some of the larger trees. So we sent the surveyor there first, and he basically told us that there was nothing he could do to make an accurate study to get actual numbers for the civil engineer to do the right drainage study. So, we waited. We found a licensed contractor to do the grubbing because we had the grubbing permit. We didn't start any earlier until we came to our first hearing with the Planning Commission, so we waited for that. When we got favorable approval for that, is when we started the drainage study. But the process to do an accurate study, we needed a surveyor. The surveyor needed it to be grubbed, so he could go out and do accurate measurements, get the topo. Because that lot is not level. In the beginning, it's kind of level. There's like a 15 or 20 -foot slope higher. Then in the center, it's kind of lower, and then the back section is a little higher. So, the surveyors have been there for the last few days, trying to get an actual accurate topo map done that we can forward to the civil engineer. And once we have all of that, we will be using that to submit to the County for the construction of the road and the drainage. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: That's very helpful, and I think you shed light as to why we have the drainage study, where it is in the process. If you're trying to do study when the plot is completely overgrown with flora and fauna, you're not going to get an accurate assessment and pulse -on potential impact. Council Member Lee Loy, this is your district. After hearing what the applicant's representative has shared with us in terms of where they are in the process with the drainage study, do you feel comfortable moving this forward as is? Knowing that work is happening, and that before they can move forward with anything, they have to mitigate appropriately if the study finds there is adverse impact. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair, for that. I really am. I actually understand this process a lot more intimately. And so, you've got to go get the baseline information of the topo, and the only way they could do that was to get the grubbing part. As the Chair pointed out, and Mr. Darrow, some things have to happen so that you can get the accurate information. I think what I also want to share with the rest my colleagues is as this process moves forward and they start subdividing the property and start laying out the lots, then they'll actually glean other base -line Page 18 PC -14 August 6, 2019 information as to the size of the homes along with the surfaces which then gets shoved into these calculations. So then we start talking about where all this water is coming from. Not only from the road or sidewalks or whatever else is needed, but the size of the homes, and the roof runoff. All of that information gets driven into this drainage study. What I do want to state for the record is all of this is paperwork. Nothing goes vertical. No cement gets poured. No asphalt gets put down until they get past this part of the condition of approval. So I am comfortable moving this forward. You know, I'm willing to work with applicant between now and then. I still have to maybe talk to the Planning Department because they already have a grubbing permit. And if want to tweak the language a little bit more, maybe it's any future land altering permits aside from the one that they already got, that would provide a little bit more of a safety net for our neighbors. I'm willing to do that. But right now I am more than comfortable to move it forward to Council with a favorable recommendation, with a possible placeholder that maybe Condition I might be massaged a little bit more. So I will be asking my colleagues for that type of support. I yield. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Chair Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, there goes Ms. Lee Loy again. I know she's really effective but, you know, this is actually in my district. It's the second time already. MS. LEE LOY: Oh, that's right. You're right. MR. CHUNG: But I agree with Ms. Lee Loy. You know, from a pure land use perspective, you know, there's a reason to have this subdivision put into place. And I think someone here earlier said that it's a good development. But the only thing is, as Mr. Richards said and everyone else here is concerned about, we want to make sure that there are no impacts on neighboring residents; traffic, flooding. I don't think the developer wants that either, right? But at some point we have to rely on the technicians, the Public Works department, to make sure that what's represented by the developer will come to pass, okay. So, I'm okay with moving this forward. Hopefully, we can have further discussions on this. But really, all of the action is going to be done at the departmental level at some point. Thank you. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair Chung. Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Just really quick. I want it to be understood that I think we're all supportive. We're just worried about the neighbors. What you articulated, everybody that's worked land, you said you can't get in there and get your survey unless you get the grubbing. That's a reasonable statement. I want to be sure that Page 19 PC -14 August 6, 2019 we don't make categorical decision that will say, "We don't allow any grubbing at all," because then people can't get in and get the job done so we can get the right information. I think case-by-case, and that's why the Council exists, to explore these and go through them and make these decisions. So I want to be sure we take care of the neighbors, as the Chair pointed out. I certainly worked enough land, that I know what you're talking about. If you can't see the land, you can't make a judgment on it. So you've got to get stuff done. I will cautiously support this going forward. How's that sound? CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for your comments, Mr. Richards. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think that if we don't become aware that hundred -year floods seem to be happening more than every hundred years, and if we're not aware of that, that we're not doing our job. Sometimes it takes the guy in the neighborhood living there to tell you that it's going to flood versus a FEMA guy who comes and does the study how many years they do that? Who knows? I would trust the guy who lives in the neighborhood over a FEMA study any day because they're going to tell you exactly what happens and when it happens. The amount of floods that we've had in the last four yearsI mean, our restaurant, I've watched Downtown flood six times in the past, in less than that many years. So we need to be a little bit more akamai about how we plan for our future planning. And I know we have our General Plan review coming up, so that would be a great thing to throw in there. Mike, I know you're listening. Thank you. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Director Yee is on it, and so are the folks at Planning and Public Works. Ms. David. MS. DAVID: Thank you, and really quick, Chair. Thank you for all of that explanation. And I think whatI would like to agree with Mr. Chung on how we're moving this forward. I like the idea of putting something in the ordinance right now, the proposed bill, any future land clearing. I think that takes care of that situation. And I'm comfortable with going along with Mr. Chung, especially in light of the fact that I think if something does go awry, I think Mr. Gyotoku will be the first one to let us all know. And so, in that situation I think I'm comfortable. Thank you for your explanation and for being here today. Mahalo. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. David. Craig, can you just shed some light around timeframe for your work on procuring the drainage study? MR. LINDER: The drainage study is going to start as soon as we have the survey completed. They expect to have it done hopefully by Friday. And then once we Page 20 PC -14 August 6, 2019 have that, we send it to the civil engineer. And he says, "two weeks," once he gets the final topographic map done. So there shouldn't be any more work on the site after today. They should have everything the surveyor needs. And then it's just a matter of calculating whatever he does and submitting that to Public Works. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: In light of what we've heard—and thank you, Mr. Gyotoku, private citizen today, for coming before the Council and sharing. We appreciate you, Bryce, too for sharing a little bit about the work that's being done by Army Corps of Engineers. I'd like to move this forward to the Council with apositive recommendation, and suggest the applicant stay in close communication with myself, with Planning Department, and update us every step of the way with where you are. This is going to come before the Council for first reading in a couple of weeks, depending on where you are. We may want to hit the "pause" button on it at first reading, or we may move it forward to second reading, but it just really depends on where you are in the process. We're not trying to hold up this project because we recognize the importance of housing for the area. And it just makes so much sense, where it is. We are in line with the urban density of the area. So stay in close communication, and we'll take things as they come in the next of weeks. Okay, motion on the floor to forward this to the Council with a positive recommendation, all in favor please say "aye." Vote on Bill 90: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 90 on first reading (Approved) was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz – 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you all for your time. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Page 21 PC -14 AT-) T()T TR N- MENT: August 6, 2019 There being no further business, at 1:15 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Ms. David and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Meeting is adjourned at 1:15 p.m. Thank you. Approved: ,. "4 Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair Planning Committee AK/na q qllq (Date) Page 22