HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PC 2019/08/06 2018-2020Committee on Planning
14th Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
August 6, 2019
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Planning was called to order at
ORDER: 11:32 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz, Chair.
R(1T T CAT r
Present: Ms.
Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair
Ms.
Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair
Mr.
Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms.
Maile Medeiros David, Member
Ms.
Karen Eoff, Member
Mr.
Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
Mr.
Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member
Ms.
Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Ms.
Rebecca Villegas, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PT TRT .TC CW
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by
the Chair:
Dwight J. Vicente: Comm. 386; and
Bill 90 (Comm, 366), comment.
Neil Gyotoku: Bill 90 (Comm. 366), in opposition.
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 386: NOMINATION OF SUSAN FORBES, NICOLETTE CB HUBBARD,
CAROL R. IGNACIO, DR. TAWN ISAAC KEENEY, CRYSTAL KUA,
BRAD R. KUROKAWA, JEFF MCKNIGHT, ROBERT T. NISHIMOTO, AND
RHONDA DARLING POLLARD TO THE INAUGURAL HAMAKUA
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT PLAN ACTION COMMITTEE
From Mayor Harry Kim, dated July 18, 2019, submitting for the Council's review
and confirmation the above nominations.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: August 31, 2019 (Section 13-4(l),
Hawaii County Charter)
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Motion to Approve
Vote on Motion to
August 6, 2019
Ms. Poindexter moved to recommend confirmation of
the appointments of the individuals listed in Comm. 386 to
the Hamakua Community Development Plan Action
Committee. Seconded by Mr. Richards.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Council Members, our Council Rules, specifically
number 10, do not allow us to vote on a group of individuals. We must do that
individually. So I would like to entertain a motion to suspend Rule 10.
Suspend Council Rules
(Approved)
Vote on Comm. 320:
(Approved)
Ms. Poindexter moved to suspend Council Rule 10 to allow
Council Members to take a single vote on the entire slate of
nominees rather than taking individual votes for each.
Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
(Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor Rose Bautista
came forward and introduced each nominee individually to the members
of the Committee.)
The motion to recommend confirmation of the appointments
of the individuals listed in Comm. 386 to the Hamakua
the Hamakua Community Development Plan Action
Committee was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointments.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: We're going to take a three-minute recess to just mahalo
the CDP (Community Development Plan) committees and take a photo. And then
we're going to be moving on to Bill 90. Thank you. Three-minute recess.
Recess: At 12:14 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 12:21 p.m.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Aloha. I am going to be calling the Committee on
Planning out of recess and back into session. The time is 12:21. Mr. Clerk, if you
could please read in Bill 90.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order
RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions.
(There were none.)
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
Bill 90: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-33 (CITY OF HILO ZONE MAP), ARTICLE 8,
CHAPTER 25 (ZONING) OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983
(2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT
CLASSIFICATION FROM AGRICULTURAL — THREE ACRES (A -3a)
TO SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL —10,000 SQUARE FEET (RS -10)
AT WAIAKEA, SOUTH HILO, HAWAII, COVERED BY TAX MAP
KEY: 2-4-080:013 (Applicant: Charles Umemoto) (Area: approximately 7.631
Acres
The Windward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for
this amendment, which would allow the applicant to apply for a subdivision of the
property into 27 lots. The property is located at the end of Mailani Street, on the
west side of Ho`omalu Street, Waiakea Homesteads.
Reference: Comm. 366
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend passage of Bill 90 on
first reading. Seconded by Ms. David.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Will the applicant and/or their representative please come
forward?
(Note: At this time, Craig Linder, representative for applicant
Charles Umemoto, came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: If you could introduce yourself for the record.
MR. LINDER: Hi, my name is Craig Linder, representing Charles Umemoto.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Would you like to provide us with a brief
overview of the request?
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August 6, 2019
MR. LINDER: Our request is to hopefully get the rest of the—all the area
conforming with the housing and lots currently located around it, and to create
more housing in the area. That's pretty much our goal.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. I also see members from the
Planning Department here. I just want to say for the record that there was a
favorable recommendation from the Commission and the Planning Department;
if I could get Jeff (Darrow) or Director Yee.
(Note: At this time Planning Director Michael Yee and Planning Program
Manager Jeff Darrow came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: There were a couple of assertions made earlier about
grub and grade permit, and drainage studies, so I was just hoping for some
clarification on that. I just wanted to confirm that there is in fact a grubbing and
grading permit, and that a drainage study will come at some point, in the process,
as stipulated in the draft ordinance.
MR. DARROW: Good morning, Committee Chair and Council Members.
Jeff Darrow, with the Planning Department.
That is correct. We've just learned that there has been a grubbing permit issued to
the property. This was back in May, for the entire seven -plus acres. And that's
different than a grading permit. So this will be more, just clearing of trees and
kind of clearing the lot. As they move forward, I'm sure they'll have to come
back in with a grading permit which will—prior to that, they'll have to do a
drainage study.
In referencing our conditions, we have a number of conditions relating to drainage
and grading. If I can reference myI believe it starts with Condition I, which
requires a drainage study. We have Conditions J and K which also talk about the
grading activity shall conform with Chapter 10 and with Chapter 27 of the
Hawaii County Code.
There is a concern that was brought up during the hearings as well as even today
regarding flooding in this area. It pretty much states in Condition I that the
applicant has to comply with this condition that says, "All development generated
runoff shall be disposed of on site and shall not be directed toward any adjacent
properties. A drainage study shall be prepared by a licensed civil engineer and
submitted to the Department of Public Works prior to issuance of a construction
permit," and that they will have to do any recommended improvements as
required by the Department of Public Works.
The misunderstanding is that people think if there's a drainage problem now, that
by this development coming in that it will be resolved, and that's not necessarily
the case. They just can't increase it, so there will still be flooding issues. They
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just have to be able to manage it so that it's not increased. There are situations
that you'll find where there's, you know, quite a bit of pavement put down on a
project. And so they'll be able to continue to manage that drainage. They have to
put in drywells and other type of improvements. So that's going on the applicant
if he has to—to be able to comply with these requirements.
This is an area that is identified in Zone X, which kind of indicates it's really not
an area of flooding issues. But apparently when there's heavy storms and rains,
that there is localized flooding in this area.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Darrow, for the clarification. Any
questions or comments from my colleagues? Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Jeff, for reporting on those
things.
You know, this is up in my area, and there is a lot of flooding. I have someone
from Public Works coming forward, and I'm going to just put a pin in my time
right now. But when he does show up, there's a few questions that I want to share
with my fellow colleagues about some Army Corp of Engineers work that is
going to be done in the upper Waiakea Uka area which hopefully, if all goes as
planned, is to begin to mitigate a lot of what is already happening as far as
flooding in the Waiakea Uka area. Some various, I wouldn't call them diversions,
but channelizations to get the water back into the respective floodways, and then
get them into flood canals in which they can carry the type of water that is coming
from the upper Waiakea Uka area.
So at this time I invite the rest of my colleagues to go ahead and ask questions
about this particular application as we wait for Bryce from Department of Public
Works.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Do you have an ETA
(Estimated Time of Arrival) on Bryce?
MS. LEE LOY: I was told he's on his way.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Perfect. Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. And I do appreciate whatI'm not sure
what Council Woman Lee Loy's bringing forward. I think this does fit in with
what we're trying to do as far as housing and all that. But that being said, for the
two -plus years, I've been very concerned about the neighbors, and always
concern about the neighbors. Private citizen Gyotoku came in today concerned
about it. It doesn't matter who raises the concern, I have to listen to the concern
coming forward.
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August 6, 2019
I hear what you're saying about there's a process coming forward, and mitigation,
and this all being reviewed, but I'm still concerned that it's not quite there yet. So
I think I'm going to also wait to hear some conversation.
And I do appreciate what you said, Jeff. The water coming off of a property
cannot be increased. But this is Hawaii, and if it starts way up high, there's
water coming down. You're not responsible for all that water coming down, so I
got that. But I do raise a concern because I'm always concerned about the
neighbors. So at this point, I'm going to yield and just hold for a minute. Thanks.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Chair Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Neil, can you come up here? I mean, since you took time off
from your work. Maybe if you can just share with us what you've talked about
with your experience with the runoff from that area.
(Note: At this time, Mr. Neil Gyotoku came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MR. GYOTOKU: During the 2000 floods, about 200 feet of Haihai was ripped
out. The drainage on that side overflowed, and a lot of the water came down
Ho`omalu Street. My concern, we have drainage canals but they're not capable of
handling the water that's coming down. And my concern is that although they
say they're going to handle within their own subdivision, the water runoff, I
cannot believe that it's not going to increase the amount of water coming down.
Ho`omalu Street sits about, I would say 15, 20 feet below this proposed project,
so naturally it's going to run down.
MR. CHUNG: How about since 2000?
MR. GYOTOKU: I have a picture. Last year Hurricane Lane, that thing
overflowed, and every time a havoc hurricane like that comes, I would put cement
blocks in front of my driveway to block the water from coming in. And the
dangerous part about it, Mr. Chairman, is that it runs down to the bottom part of
the subdivision. So as bad as I have it, that person down there gets it ten -fold.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah. I mean, but what's kind of perplexing is this thing is in the
Zone X, an area determined by FEMA to be within an area of minimal flood
hazard. I'm sure the experts will take a look at this thing. I know, Jeff, what you
said, "It's not to eliminate all of the flooding that's happened in the past," it's just
to make sure that additional runoff is not occurring. Anyway, you have the
concerns. And the Public Works Department will have to start doing their work
too because we don't want, as Mr. Richards says, "Create more hazards." I'm
primarily concerned about flooding and traffic. Okay, thank you. Thanks, Neil.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair Chung. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
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August 6, 2019
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good morning, Jeff.
MR. DARROW: I appreciate that the applicant is actually willing to do all the
things asked, without asking for any negotiations or variances of any kind. I do
appreciate that because we don't get that very often.
As far as what you were saying, yeah, I've seen that area flood. I mean, anytime
you clear property and take away the natural flora and fauna, you're going to
create—especially when you pave and put driveways and put houses, you're
going to create water because there's nowhere for it to go into the ground
anymore. How to rectify that? You know, I am not an engineer. But I would
agree that what Neil is saying is right, starting from there and working its way
down, you're going to see a lot of flooding. It's just going to get worse, the more
we clear that area and put more houses.
So if we do have any kind of Army Corp of EngineersI know it's coming.
Without being too common sense, the more we clear and the more we pave, the
more water is going to be running down the hill. Doesn't matter what we do; it's
going to happen. I'm not here to argue whether there is or isn't flooding. But I
do appreciate what you guys have chosen, to actually follow what's in the
document. Thank you.
MR. DARROW: If I could just make a simple comment based on Council
Members Lee Loy's comment?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, please.
MR. DARROW: The Planning Department just received a copy of the
Environment Report for this project, so we're reviewing it at this time. It is a
good project. It looks like it's going to really address a lot of these issues that are
being brought up today. So we're looking forward to seeing that go through and
then being able to be constructed on the ground.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Just to clarify, you received a copy of the Army Corp of
Engineer's work?
MR. DARROW: Correct. Yes.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. And it is available online for review, at
the OEQC (Office of Environmental Quality Control) website. Looks like it's
going to be an excellent project.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and thank you. I would say probably six months ago now,
the Army Corp of Engineers met with area residents, both at—near the golf
course, further up where Waiakea Uka Gym is, where a lot of this flooding is
occurring. There's a lot of multiple factors happening. Yes, some of the work up
mauka.
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We have a lot of streams that need maintenance, and that costs a lot of money to
do. I'm glad to hear that the Planning Department is utilizing this Army Corp of
Engineers study and utilizing the data and the runoff to help guide future planning
in which this department, the Planning Department, creates various conditions of
approval to help supplement what already the Army Corp of Engineers has
identified as areas of improvement.
I guess right now I really am trying to buy some time so that we can get Public
Works in here to express to this body what the larger goal of the work for the
Army Corp of Engineers is to do, including the amount of water that they are
trying to get back into the areas that can handle it.
So with that—but thank you, Jeff. I appreciate that the Planning Department is
using all the tools available as far as data studies and recovery studies, and water
runoff studies to help our conditions of approval for future zone changes. So,
thank you. I yield.
MR. DARROW: Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Chair Chung, do you have
additional comments? Your light is on.
MR. CHUNG: Oh, yeah. I just wanted to make one more comment, too, with
regard to the 2000 flooding situation. Subsequent to that, we had the construction
of that bridge on Kawailani, right, which was intended to address a lot of those
problems too, and I think it has. You know, Hurricane Lane was an extraordinary
situation.
But again, you heard the comments from a person who has been affected. I think
it would behoove the County and the developer to really take those things to
heart, yeah, because it is very important. Okay, thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair Chung. We have Robyn Matsumoto
from Public Works here. Could you come forward and talk story with us about
the drainage study that the Army Corp of Engineers is conducting in the upper
Waiakea Uka area?
(Note: At this time, Acting Building Division Chief Robyn Matsumoto
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. MATSUMOTO: Good afternoon. My name is Robyn Matsumoto. I am the
Acting Building Chief. Regarding the flood study that the Army Corp is doing,
what questions do you have regarding that? Anything specific?
MS. LEE LOY: Well, actually, Robyn, if you could kind of encapsulate an
overall—what the project is intended to do. The various channelizations that are
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happening further up mauka, near Waiakea Uka Gym, along Four Mile Creek
Bridge, along the golf course, where we're actually trying to get the water back
into the various flood areas.
MS. MATSUMOTO: So unfortunately, I'm not as familiar with the project as
Bryce Harada, who I thought was going to be here.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Robyn, so the concern on the table is right now we have
a request before us, through Bill 90, which is to rezone and create some additional
lots on Mailani Street which is between Kawailani and Haihai, I believe. So there
have been some concerns expressed by neighbors few blocks away about drainage
and flooding in the area, and concerns about this project contributing to that,
which is of interest to us because FEMA (Federal Emergency Management
Agency) noted that this area is flood Zone X.
MS. MATSUMOTO: Correct.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: So minimal flooding.
MS. MATSUMOTO: I mean, if it's designated as "X" by FEMA, you know,
there may be localized drainage issues, you know, like storms in the area, but
don't expect it to be a big concern.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And what we were just hoping to glean is this bigger
study that's happening by Army Corp of Engineers is what we could potentially
learn from that to help to help mitigate flooding issues related to this project and
other projects.
MS. MATSUMOTO: So I believe the Army Corp's study is channelizing, trying
to increase the volume of the channel to keep the water within that area. I'm not
exactly sure how close it is to this particular project. We'd have to get back to
you on that.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Mr. Gyotoku, I'm just going to go out on a limb
here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not trying to stop this project, because
you're the head of Housing and you recognize the importance of increasing the
housing stock in our community. What you're trying to do is just ask a question
around flood mitigation, the drainage, and ensure that should this project go
forward, that mechanisms are put in place so that there's no adverse impact on
surrounding communities. Does that encapsulate your concern? Maybe come
forward and state for the record. Thank you.
(Note: At this time, Mr. Neil Gyotoku came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MR. GYOTOKU: Neil Gyotoku, private citizen. I'm not talking for Housing,
because yes, that's my job. I don't want to stop the project. But I'm concerned
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that there was a drainage study that needed to be done, and I wanted to see
it to make sure that they would be able to handle the water at that subdivision.
Because I took pictures yesterday, and they cleared all of the lot. It's
about 20 feet above Ho`omalu Street, so all of the—you know, naturally the
water lucky thing we didn't have a rain event. But the water will come down
into that neighboring subdivision, Ho`omalu Street. I just want to see how this
project will be able to handle the water.
The drainage study, I was told was supposed to be done. I was concerned that it
seems like they're going to go forward before this drainage study has been made.
Then I was told it's going to be before they do actual construction of the project.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. Mr. Darrow, I need you to jump back
into the hotseat really quick. It seems to be me that a similar situation came
before our body. A few months ago there was a project in Waimea. I believe it
straddles Council Member Poindexter's and Council Member Richards' districts,
where there were neighbors concerned about drainage and flooding, and they
thought that these studies needed to happen before our body had granted the
rezoning. And so, we built in the conditions like you've done here, that the study
needed to happen before any movement could take place. Is there difference in
the language between that project ordinance and this one, with the relation to the
requirement of the drainage study, and when that is completed in the process?
MR. DARROW: There is a difference. I think that particular project that we're
referring to, I believe, it was right in Waimea, where they were accessing the
road. It was a long, skinny lot, and there was issues with drainage. I think we
said that they had to do the drainage study before any permit, any land altering
permits. So, it wasn't just construction permits.
So in this case, the applicant has already received a grubbing permit. If that
language was in the proposed rezoning conditions, I'm not sure what we do
because it appears this grubbing permit was issued prior to us even coming to this
body. So we're in a tough situation here. I mean, we can say, "No further land
altering permits." I think at this point, the next step is that they will have to come
in for the drainage study. There's really no other type. They're not coming in for
a grading permit. Before that drainage study, they have to do that. So that would
be the next step in this project.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: So if we grant the rezone, they would have to do the
drainage study?
MR. DARROW: Yeah. The difference is that if we had that language proposed,
they may not have gone out and gotten the grubbing permit, and done what
they've done at this point. So that's the difference between this project and the
Waimea project.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. Man of the hour, Bryce from
Public Works is here.
(Note: At this time, Civil Engineer Bryce Harada came forward to address
the members of the Committee.)
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Lee Loy had asserted to an Army Corp of Engineers
study regarding flooding, so I'm going to turn it over to her to ask you some
questions and to elaborate.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Before I get a little further down this, just so that
Bryce can collect his thoughts, I wanted to ask Mr. Gyotoku a couple more
questions. Because you talked about various events in which the flooding
occurred. You know, you mentioned 2000. And I think Mr. Chung could
probably allude to—that was an exceptional rain event back in 2000, when a lot
of that flooding occurred. And then, with Lane, again another large rain event. I
know you've taken pictures of the area.
I'm trying to get a correlation between these hundred year storms which generate
enormous amounts of rain compared to an average rainy day or rainy week up in
Waiakea Uka, and if it's more related to the situation of the drainage canals not
being managed or cleaned out. Or even some of our drywells being managed
properly, that kind of increases some of the water runoff in the area.
MR. GYOTOKU: You are correct. The 2000 flood, they did do some mitigation
work above that, in the Waiakea Uka, you know, by the gym area, and that has
alleviated much of the flooding problem, like that. However, whenever we have a
large rain event, such as a tropical storm, a major flood event, the drainage canals
in Ho`omalu Street are not adequate. These were built about 30 years ago.
There's no real formal channel, and it just flows. I myself built a wall in front of
my property. But that's part of the issue that doesn't—the culvert across my
driveway is not big enough, yeah.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I think that's some of the other issues, right? We have
subdivisions that were developed 20, 30, 35 years ago in which the standards back
then were very different from what they are now. And so we are trying to infill an
area, which is what our General Plan calls for when we're utilizing the
infrastructure, in hopes to leveraging that infrastructure, to improve infrastructure
in the area.
But with that, Bryce, I had shared with this body that recently, probably about six
months ago, the Army Corp of Engineers is proposing some mitigation work as
far as rechannelizing water from further up mauka, near Waiakea Uka Gym, near
the golf course. Could you provide this body with a brief overview of what that
project entails? One, high level; and two, and I know you have it, is some of the
water or the amounts of water that will be guided back into the various flood
channels that they should be in? As close to the amount of water you can get.
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Because I know it's a lot. I know it's a lot of water that they're trying to get back
into the floodways.
MR. HARADA: Bryce, from Public Works. So to answer your question, yeah,
the Army Corp—and we're the local sponsor for that particular study. So for that
one, they have—right now they have three proposed sites. They one up by New
Hope Church; they have a levy system planned out over there. They have one
above the Waiakea Fairway Subdivision, in the golf course, and that's going to
be proposed a detention, basin. And then they have another one by Ainalako,
which is some diversion structure in that area. So that's more or less the three
basic proposed alternatives that they have right now. As far as the amount that
they're planning to rechannel or put into the areas, I'm not too sure on the exact
numbers.
MS. LEE LOY: Maybe you want to share too, because this Army Corp of
Engineers and County is the sponsor, but it's the Army Corps of Engineers is
bringing the money and the resources to help with some of that. You know, just
share with this body how we're partnering with them, with these three options to
help mitigate the following in the area.
MR. HARADA: Yeah, so we're the local sponsor for this particular study, so we
pay a portion for the study. But the majority of the work is done by the Army
Corps of Engineers.
We had requested, and I'm not sure on the exact date, but we requested the Army
Corp's assistance for this particular project awhile ago. So that's generally—we
pay a portion.
MS. LEE LOY: So, Bryce, Army Corps of Engineers, you guys are the local
sponsors. Contained within the Change of Zone application is the Condition I,
that "All development -generated runoff shall be disposed of on site," and a
drainage study submitted to the Department of Public Works. So you guys
become this critical pinch -point, between the Army Corps of Engineers study and
what the proposed mitigation measures will be with the work being done up
mauka, and then dovetailing this drainage plan. So you guys become that focal
point, to ensure that the water is being mitigated and being maintained on site. Is
that an accurate assertion?
MR. HARADA: So Condition I of this development runoff is going to be
contained. That's kind of like a general requirement that we require for a lot of
the developments. Not necessarily for the—take into account the Army Corps
Engineers study or any of that. But this is just saying that they're going to take
care of all the onsite drainage, and not going to increase it or make it worse for the
downstream properties.
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MS. LEE LOY: You guys would also have the data from the Army Corps of
Engineers, right, to make sure that the drainage study is fitting in with all of the
mitigative measures?
MR. HARADA: Oh, yeah. That's correct.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I invite any of my colleagues to ask any
questions of this smart engineer in front of us.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Council Members, any
questions? No more questions? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, sir, so you do or do not incorporate
the Army Corp of Engineer's data into your plan? I mean, I watched you walk
through that questioning line and it seems like that at the very end you did agree,
but at the beginning you didn't. So, yes or no?
MR. HARADA: For this?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah.
MR. HARADA: This particular one, it's no. I mean, this is justat least my
understanding, it's just a general comment that is made. We do look at upstream
conditions, too. I guess this is just to fulfill this.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's normal. That's our normal wording,
yeah?
MR. HARADA: Yeah, normal wording. Yeah.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So when they plan a community like thisI
mean, it's not even a community. This is like 27 lots at the end of a street, well,
the end of an existing street, and it's going to be the middle of the street at some
point. We're adding 27 lots, and we're just mitigating the water coming from the
27 lots. Is that right? So just the water that runs off of—and the site is not each
individual lot. The site is that 27 lots as a whole. On both sides; one is Mailani
Street, and the other is this street, parallel to, on the other side. So we're just
mitigating the water on those lots. That's it. That's what we're talking about?
MR. HARADA: Yeah.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Not all of Waiakea Uka. Not all of the
whole area, just those 27 lots.
MR. HARADA: Yes, this conditions is just talking about that particular area.
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August 6, 2019
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I don't have anything else. Thank
you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Chair Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Jeff, let's revisit this whole idea of the drainage study, okay? I
know you were saying it's going to be difficult because they've already grubbed.
But is there a place that we can require a drainage study? I mean, it can be after
approval. But I'm just wondering, how would we ever know if we don't have the
drainage study? How would we ever know that they have mitigated or kept
everything on site without that drainage study?
MR. DARROW: Thank you, Chair Chung. The difficulty, and I think we
actually discussed this at the Waimea hearing, the difficulty with requiring certain
studies prior to approval is you know, it's just where do we stop right? There
comes a point that a particular type of study would be something that's in concert
with the actual development itself. So as they're coming in, they have to do their
drainage study to determine how they're going to mitigate all that, along with
their grading permit, and then be able to come in with construction plans to do the
overall subdivision. That's all part of that.
But again, I haven't seen that in the past where we've required a drainage study
prior to submitting a change of zone application.
MR. CHUNG: Oh, no, no, no. I'm not suggesting that.
MR. DARROW: Okay.
MR. CHUNG: But I just wanted to make sure that there is a place for this
drainage study.
MR. DARROW: Most definitely.
MR. CHUNG: Because we need the baseline, right? We need to know.
MR. DARROW: Yeah. And again, the difference between this one and the last
one is we had said that even prior to any land altering permit. So, they couldn't
come in with a grubbing or grading permit prior to that.
We can suggest that now, just to change the wording on Condition I, to say
instead of construction permits, that we make it clear going forward, even any
land altering permits that they come in with a drainage study. That might make it
more comfortable as far as going forward. Because the way it's worded right
now, it's construction permit, and that's you know, basically that's going to be
coming in when dwellings are coming in—and stuff. They have to come in for
subdivision, and prior to that, that's when all the drainage issues have to be dealt
with.
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August 6, 2019
MR. CHUNG: And what happens when—what does the County do with these
drainage studies? Do we just take the word because it's a consultant, right,
that's going to be doing that?
MR. DARROW: That would be a Bryce question or a Robyn question. But I
would think, just like with our traffic studies, we get traffic studies for
consultants. Our County engineers review it, and majority of the times they have
issues with the study.
MR. CHUNG: Oh, okay.
MR. DARROW: So they'll tell them to revise it.
MR. CHUNG: So there is a checks and balances.
MR. DARROW: That would be my understanding, the same with the drainage
studies.
MR. CHUNG: That's true.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Robyn, can you clarify?
MS. MATSUMOTO: That's correct. Once we get a stamped -report from another
licensed engineer, we evaluate it. And basically what we're looking at, is what's
the existing condition, right, it's agricultural zone. Now it's going to be changed
to a RS -10. There's going to be roads, sidewalks, so we're looking at that as the
impermeable surfaces. We kind of guesstimate on what the size of the houses are
going to be because we don't really know, in order to determine what that post
construction is. And then we try to take the difference, and that's how much they
have to eitherdrywells or infiltration basin. So basically, what comes in is what
supposed to go out. And anything you actually generate on the property, it
supposed to be dealt with on the property.
MR. CHUNG: So basically you're going to review what comes in, the way of a
drainage study, and you could impose more requirements based on what?
MS. MATSUMOTO: Correct. Yeah, if we feel like they're not accounting for
enough square footage that's going to be impermeable, then we're going to say
that.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, yeah.
MS. MATSUMOTO: And if something if there's a big change, and when
construction comes in, I'm sure we have the exact same responsibilities. And say,
"Hey look, now you're building these monster homes, so now you've got to
account for more drainage."
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August 6, 2019
MR. CHUNG: Right. Okay. Okay, that's good. And then, is there a place for
some of the neighboring people to provide input?
MS. MATSUMOTO: I mean, because what we do, is after the subdivision is
approved, we get the tentative approval which indicates what they are allowed to
build, and that's how we determine our drainage reports.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, okay.
MS. MATSUMOTO: So I'm assuming the comments come in before that gets
issued.
MR. CHUNG: Alright. Okay, thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Eoff.
MS. EOFF: Thank you. Jeff, would you suggest some additional language in that
condition so that we can assure the neighbors that before any further alterations
occur, that we would have seen the drainage study and been able to require some
kind of wording in there that would reassure them?
MR. DARROW: Sure. I would suggest that on Condition I, sentence number
two, replacing "issuance of a construction permit" to state "issuance of any land
altering permit."
MS. EOFF: Land altering permit.
MR. DARROW: Permit, yeah. And again, unfortunately there already had been
a grubbing issued. They have conditions on that grubbing permit that they have
to comply with as far as best management practices, and stopping runoff and
things like that. Just to be clear, that any future grading permit, or something,
could not be granted until they do this drainage study.
MS. EOFF: I would like to see something like that put in if my colleagues agree.
It would certainly make, at least Mr. Gyotoku's time here, and bringing thisI
mean, it's a cart before the horse thing. I understand about that, but at least it's
something. Maybe Planning Chair could work with you, if you think that's a
good idea. But, I like that idea. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Eoff. I'm going to address your
suggestion right after Mr. Richards has his chance to question.
MR. RICHARDS: So I have the floor, Chair?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Sure.
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August 6, 2019
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Why not?
MR. RICHARDS: So just a geek question. Seven acres; one acre, one inch of
rain, so 200,000 gallons for one inch. So when you calculate this, are you basing
the water runoff—and I don't know who I'm asking the question to but it's going
to be an engineer, so probably you. You base this upon an estimates rainfall of x -
number of inches per hour, and thereby you size your drywells based upon the
capacity of that drywell with a percolation? I mean, I realize it's not a simple
question, but is that how you do this? And based upon hard surface—what was
it? Seven acres, and you figure maybe half of it is going to be covered, so three -
and -a -half acres, etcetera, etcetera.
MS. MATSUMOTO: We definitely look at how much the size of the road is
going to be. How much area is going to be impermeable, and how much is going
to change from the agricultural. Like maybe it's going to be like a residential
lawn type of area, so that's going to have a different infiltration than the original.
We look at a 10 -year storm. If they're going to be designed for culverts, we're
going to be looking at a 50 -year storm event. So we change the infrastructure
based on the different type of storm quantities.
MR. RICHARDS: Dependent upon the region, so dependent upon annual rainfall
involve.
MS. MATSUMOTO: Correct, we have different zones all over the County.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay.
MS. MATSUMOTO: You can actually also use alternative methods and look at
different rainfall events for actual events that have happened.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. I'm going to let the Chair take over again because I'm
inclined—again, we worry about the neighbors, and I don't think that's a bad
thing to worry about. We want this to go forward. We want to make sure the
neighbors are taken care of. So I'm going to yield at this point, Chair.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Craig, if you could come
forward, please.
(Note: At this time, Developer Craig Linder, representing the applicant,
came forward to address the members of the Committee.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: If you just want to share any thoughts about the
discussion we're having. There is a suggested amendment on the floor to
Condition I regarding the timing of the drainage study in relation to granting any
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August 6, 2019
further land alteration permit. So I just wanted your thoughts on that before we
move forward.
MR. LINDER: Okay. We've already hired a civil engineer to do the study for
the drainage. One of the requirements the engineer had was we had to have topo
survey done by a licensed surveyor. The property up there was so overgrown that
nobody could give us accurate answers without actually taking out some of the
larger trees. So we sent the surveyor there first, and he basically told us that there
was nothing he could do to make an accurate study to get actual numbers for the
civil engineer to do the right drainage study.
So, we waited. We found a licensed contractor to do the grubbing because we
had the grubbing permit. We didn't start any earlier until we came to our first
hearing with the Planning Commission, so we waited for that. When we got
favorable approval for that, is when we started the drainage study.
But the process to do an accurate study, we needed a surveyor. The surveyor
needed it to be grubbed, so he could go out and do accurate measurements, get the
topo. Because that lot is not level. In the beginning, it's kind of level. There's
like a 15 or 20 -foot slope higher. Then in the center, it's kind of lower, and then
the back section is a little higher.
So, the surveyors have been there for the last few days, trying to get an actual
accurate topo map done that we can forward to the civil engineer. And once we
have all of that, we will be using that to submit to the County for the construction
of the road and the drainage.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: That's very helpful, and I think you shed light as to why
we have the drainage study, where it is in the process. If you're trying to do study
when the plot is completely overgrown with flora and fauna, you're not going to
get an accurate assessment and pulse -on potential impact.
Council Member Lee Loy, this is your district. After hearing what the applicant's
representative has shared with us in terms of where they are in the process with
the drainage study, do you feel comfortable moving this forward as is? Knowing
that work is happening, and that before they can move forward with anything,
they have to mitigate appropriately if the study finds there is adverse impact.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair, for that. I really am. I actually understand
this process a lot more intimately. And so, you've got to go get the baseline
information of the topo, and the only way they could do that was to get the
grubbing part.
As the Chair pointed out, and Mr. Darrow, some things have to happen so that
you can get the accurate information. I think what I also want to share with the
rest my colleagues is as this process moves forward and they start subdividing the
property and start laying out the lots, then they'll actually glean other base -line
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August 6, 2019
information as to the size of the homes along with the surfaces which then gets
shoved into these calculations. So then we start talking about where all this water
is coming from. Not only from the road or sidewalks or whatever else is needed,
but the size of the homes, and the roof runoff. All of that information gets driven
into this drainage study.
What I do want to state for the record is all of this is paperwork. Nothing goes
vertical. No cement gets poured. No asphalt gets put down until they get past this
part of the condition of approval. So I am comfortable moving this forward.
You know, I'm willing to work with applicant between now and then. I still have
to maybe talk to the Planning Department because they already have a grubbing
permit. And if want to tweak the language a little bit more, maybe it's any future
land altering permits aside from the one that they already got, that would provide
a little bit more of a safety net for our neighbors. I'm willing to do that. But right
now I am more than comfortable to move it forward to Council with a favorable
recommendation, with a possible placeholder that maybe Condition I might be
massaged a little bit more. So I will be asking my colleagues for that type of
support. I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Chair Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, there goes Ms. Lee Loy again. I know she's really
effective but, you know, this is actually in my district. It's the second time
already.
MS. LEE LOY: Oh, that's right. You're right.
MR. CHUNG: But I agree with Ms. Lee Loy. You know, from a pure land use
perspective, you know, there's a reason to have this subdivision put into place.
And I think someone here earlier said that it's a good development. But the only
thing is, as Mr. Richards said and everyone else here is concerned about, we want
to make sure that there are no impacts on neighboring residents; traffic, flooding.
I don't think the developer wants that either, right? But at some point we have to
rely on the technicians, the Public Works department, to make sure that what's
represented by the developer will come to pass, okay.
So, I'm okay with moving this forward. Hopefully, we can have further
discussions on this. But really, all of the action is going to be done at the
departmental level at some point. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair Chung. Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Just really quick. I want it to be understood that I think we're
all supportive. We're just worried about the neighbors. What you articulated,
everybody that's worked land, you said you can't get in there and get your survey
unless you get the grubbing. That's a reasonable statement. I want to be sure that
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August 6, 2019
we don't make categorical decision that will say, "We don't allow any grubbing at
all," because then people can't get in and get the job done so we can get the right
information. I think case-by-case, and that's why the Council exists, to explore
these and go through them and make these decisions.
So I want to be sure we take care of the neighbors, as the Chair pointed out. I
certainly worked enough land, that I know what you're talking about. If you can't
see the land, you can't make a judgment on it. So you've got to get stuff done. I
will cautiously support this going forward. How's that sound?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for your comments, Mr. Richards.
Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think that if we don't become aware that
hundred -year floods seem to be happening more than every hundred years, and if
we're not aware of that, that we're not doing our job. Sometimes it takes the guy
in the neighborhood living there to tell you that it's going to flood versus a FEMA
guy who comes and does the study how many years they do that? Who knows?
I would trust the guy who lives in the neighborhood over a FEMA study any day
because they're going to tell you exactly what happens and when it happens.
The amount of floods that we've had in the last four yearsI mean, our
restaurant, I've watched Downtown flood six times in the past, in less than that
many years. So we need to be a little bit more akamai about how we plan for our
future planning. And I know we have our General Plan review coming up, so that
would be a great thing to throw in there. Mike, I know you're listening. Thank
you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Director Yee is on it, and so are the folks at Planning and
Public Works. Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, and really quick, Chair. Thank you for all of that
explanation. And I think whatI would like to agree with Mr. Chung on how
we're moving this forward. I like the idea of putting something in the ordinance
right now, the proposed bill, any future land clearing. I think that takes care of
that situation.
And I'm comfortable with going along with Mr. Chung, especially in light of the
fact that I think if something does go awry, I think Mr. Gyotoku will be the first
one to let us all know. And so, in that situation I think I'm comfortable. Thank
you for your explanation and for being here today. Mahalo.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. David. Craig, can you just shed some
light around timeframe for your work on procuring the drainage study?
MR. LINDER: The drainage study is going to start as soon as we have the survey
completed. They expect to have it done hopefully by Friday. And then once we
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have that, we send it to the civil engineer. And he says, "two weeks," once he
gets the final topographic map done. So there shouldn't be any more work on the
site after today. They should have everything the surveyor needs. And then it's
just a matter of calculating whatever he does and submitting that to Public Works.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: In light of what we've heard—and thank you,
Mr. Gyotoku, private citizen today, for coming before the Council and sharing.
We appreciate you, Bryce, too for sharing a little bit about the work that's being
done by Army Corps of Engineers.
I'd like to move this forward to the Council with apositive recommendation, and
suggest the applicant stay in close communication with myself, with Planning
Department, and update us every step of the way with where you are. This is
going to come before the Council for first reading in a couple of weeks,
depending on where you are. We may want to hit the "pause" button on it at first
reading, or we may move it forward to second reading, but it just really depends
on where you are in the process.
We're not trying to hold up this project because we recognize the importance of
housing for the area. And it just makes so much sense, where it is. We are in line
with the urban density of the area. So stay in close communication, and we'll
take things as they come in the next of weeks.
Okay, motion on the floor to forward this to the Council with a positive
recommendation, all in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 90: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 90 on first reading
(Approved) was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz – 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you all for your time. Do I have a motion to
adjourn?
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AT-) T()T TR N-
MENT:
August 6, 2019
There being no further business, at 1:15 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn the
meeting. Seconded by Ms. David and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes:
Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 9.
Noes:
None.
Absent:
None.
Excused:
None.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Meeting is adjourned at 1:15 p.m. Thank you.
Approved:
,.
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Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair
Planning Committee
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(Date)
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