Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2019/08/06 2018-2020Committee on Finance 16th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii August 6, 2019 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at ORDER: 3:55 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member (came in later) Ms. Karen Eoff, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member (came in later) Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak regarding Comm. 342, and came forward when called by the Chair: Cherie Griffore: Andy Andrews: (representing Leilani Estates Community Association) Sharon Willeford: Abraham Hallburton: Comm. 369, in support. Comm. 331.2, comment. Comm. 369, in support. Comm. 369, in support. A. Lono Lyman: Comm. 331.2, comment. (representing Kapoho Management Company, Inc. and Kapoho Land & Development Company) Debra Smith: Comm. 331.2, comment. Nancy Seifers: Comm. 331.2, comment. FC -16 COMMUNI- (' A TTC)NTQ Nicolette Douvris: Comm. 331.2, comment. Cory Harden: Comm. 369, comment. Robin Stetson: Comm. 331.2, comment. Eileen O'Hara: Comm. 331.2, in support. Yvonne Verburgt: Comm. 369, comment. Susan Kim: Comm. 331.2, comment. Daniel H. Smith: Comm. 369, in support. Marcia May: Comm. 331.2, comment. (representing Attorney General's Drug & Crime Task Force) Shelley Mahi: Comm. 369, in support. August 6, 2019 CHR. DAVID: Thank you, everyone. Right now, I will close public testimony and we will proceed with order of business. Mr. Clerk, let's start from the top, Communication 9.11, please. The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Communications. Comm. 9.11: MONTHLY BUDGET STATUS REPORT FOR THE MONTH ENDED MAY 31, 2019, FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE From Finance Director Deanna Sako, dated July 18, 2019, transmitting the above report pursuant to Hawaii County Charter Section 6-6.3(h). Vote on Comm. 9.11: Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 9.11. Filed Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Page 2 FC -16 August 6, 2019 Comm. 11.14: REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: MAY 16 — 31, 2019 AND JUNE 16 — 30, 2019 From Controller Kay Oshiro, dated July 8, 2019. Motion to Close File: Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on Comm. 11.14. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR. DAVID: Any discussion? Seeing noneoh, okay. Mr. Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, Deanna? (Note: At this time Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: Good afternoon. Deanna Sako, Director of Finance. MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Deanna. This is the overtime. Just go through that quickly for us, for the Fire overtime. MS. SAKO: I think it's number 84. So Fire did transfer between some of their regular S&W (Salary and Wages) accounts to overtime to kind of move or shift funds. Some of it was related to access funds due to vacancies, and so they just shifted. Most of their overtime was in Fire Protection and Ocean Safety. MR. RICHARDS: And how does that stack up to overtime previously? MS. SAKO: I forget if there was one more after this or not. Each year, they kind of wait until the end of the year and then move the money to be able to account for all of their overtime to the right category. So they go through a lot of accounting entries at the end of the year, making sure that all of the EMS (Emergency Medical Services) wages are in the EMS accounts and then transfer the money as needed at the end. I would have to go back and look, you know, fiscal year like 2019 compared to 2018. But yeah, I can go back and look. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, if you could do that for me, please. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Anyone else? MS. LEE LOY: Yes, Chair. CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Deanna, Transfer 80, it's Parks Maintenance, Salary and Wages to, I guess, Senior Employment. I know it's very little, but I noticed in the Page 3 FC -16 August 6, 2019 explanation it was due to unanticipated occurrences such as lava or hurricane disasters. I know this is just really a little bit of money, but is this how we are going to see the money that came from the Governor to help cover salary and wages costs or overtime costs as it related to Hurricane Lane and lava? MS. SAKO: So Lane and lava pretty much were, you know, three-quarters of it was reimbursed by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency). So you'll also see, when we get down and close all the books, the FEMA receivable or revenue related to this. In these cases where there were small amounts and they weren't really severely impacted in their budget, we left it in the departments. But if there was like large amounts, like Police, especially Police and Fire, then we moved it out either to our Disaster funds or our Disaster account. MS. LEE LOY: And just for the rest of us, so definitely Police, we're going to see some money move around—Fire. What about DPW (Department of Public Works)? Because I know our road crews were out there for a long time. MS. SAKO: Right. So they'll either get reimbursed from FEMAI think in the end we did have to move some out to the Disaster Fund because it just was too much. MS. LEE LOY: It was too much. MS. SAKO: Yeah. MS. LEE LOY: But in DPW because they have the Highway Fund and different funds, but it will come— MS. SAKO: We track it by each fund. MS. LEE LOY: By each fund. And so with DPW, it's General Fund, Highway Fund MS. SAKO: Highway Fund. And that was it for last year. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. And can the monies for Governor Ige, you know, the $22 million, I think it was $12 and $10 (million), is that flexible to put into the Highway Fund? Because I know sometimes they're restricted, right? MS. SAKO: So yes, we're trying to make sure each fund was kind of made whole. So like the County match would come from the $10 and $12 (million). MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Deanna. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? No? Seeing none, alright, all those in favor please say "aye." Page 4 FC -16 August 6, 2019 Vote on Comm. 11.14: The motion to close file on Comm. 11.14 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Comm. 62.2: FOURTH QUARTER REPORT OF PERSONS EMPLOYED UNDER A CONTRACT FOR LESS THAN 90 DAYS: APRIL 1 — JUNE 30, 2019 From Human Resources Director William V. Brilhante, Jr., dated July 1, 2019, transmitting the above report pursuant to Section 2-12.5 of the Hawaii County Code. Postponed: July 23, 2019 (Note: There is a motion by Ms. Villegas, seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz, to close file on Comm. 62.2.) CHR. DAVID: Ms. Kierkiewicz, I do not believe Director Brilhante is here. Would you like to? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I canI mean, I'll just share. I had asked for this to be postponed because we get these reports on a quarterly basis. I had concerns around seeing the same names over, and over, and over again, and not very clear as to the kind of work they were doing and at what departments. And so we've been provided with an updated communication. I'm going do a little bit more digging, and at the point we receive our next report from Human Resources, hopefully, the Director will be available to answer our questions. Thank you, Chair. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Given that, we're going to postpone this again until he comes back? You're good? Okay, alright then. Anyone else? All in favor of filing Communication 62.2 please say "aye." Page 5 FC -16 August 6, 2019 Vote on Comm. 62.2: The motion to close file on Comm. 62.2 was carried by Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David – 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Comm. 331.2: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY THE HAWAII COUNTY RECOVERY TEAM REGARDING IMMEDIATE PRIORITIES, PROJECTS AND INITIATIVES, UPDATED SPENDING PLAN, AND TIMELINE FOR THE LAVA RECOVERY INTERIM STRATEGY From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated July 19, 2019. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 331.2. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. (Note: At this time, Research and Development Director Diane Ley came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. You know, I wanted to invite the Recovery Officer, R&D (Research and Development) Director Diane Ley, to come before the Council to provide us with another update on where we are in our Interim Recovery strategy budget timeline. It's been a long day for all of us, so thank you for still being here and making yourself available to provide us this information. You were here for the testimony, Director Ley. I want to start off by saying thank you. Thank you to everyone at the County who iseveryone's wearing multiple hats. But I'm going to lean in pretty hard today because I think that we've run out of time. We've really run out of time for excuses. We look forward to the presentation, and then I'm going to have some questions that I think we need to address for—you know, just to settle a lot of burning questions by the community. MS. LEY: Thank you. Thank you, Committee Members and Chair Kierkiewicz. My name is Diane Ley. I'm the Director for the Department of Research and Development. Page 6 FC -16 August 6, 2019 (Note: At this time, Ms. Ley provided a PowerPoint presentation regarding the Kilauea Eruption Recovery, updated August 6, 2019. For viewing of the subject presentation, please see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A hardcopy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 331.3). CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Diane for that very focused presentation. I didn't see a budget. Can you share if the pilot projects that you've presented, the CBDG-DR (Community Development Block Grant - Disaster Recovery), the Land Trust, the Puna Strong grants are going to be funded with the Governor's money? Because it's most restrictive, and I think deadline is running on, or coming up in terms of when that money should be spent. MS. LEY: So a portion of the Puna Strong—we had intended to have a larger Puna Strong Grant program. There is funds in the $10 million from the Governor. From conversations with multiple parties, we have scaled that back a bit. We're going with a pilot initiative. But this has—with the intent of getting smaller sized grants out to the community in a quick fashion, so we're looking forward to that. That will also provide technical assistance to some of these organizations. Some of the organizations may or may not be, if you will, qualified Federal or State nonprofits. So that was the intent of the scope of work. So yes, that will be available. And you asked about? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Copy of the budget. MS. LEY: A copy of the budget. I didn't bring that slide with me today. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. MS. LEY: It hasn't changed much other than we have set aside—at the request to set aside the $20 million from the State Legislature and hold that in abeyance while the planning process moves forward. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That was at my request, in case anybody was wondering. I didn't see the justification of earmarking $10 million for housing, when we didn't have a case management system or database stood up to tell us that these are the housing needs. So, just in case you were wondering. I also have a question around, who makes up the recovery team? MS. LEY: That's myself, Roy Takemoto from the Mayor's Office. That includes Michael Yee, Planning Director. We have been relying on Douglas Le from the Planning Department, particularly for Human Resources and some financial. Deanna Sako and Steven Hunt from Finance Department. David Yamamoto and Page 7 FC -16 August 6, 2019 Alan Simeon from Public Works weigh in heavily with when we were talking about road infrastructure. Then we have our contract employee, Alex. Lois, who serves as our program coordinator and keeping us all rallied and centralized in our work; Robert or Bob Agres who is doing our community engagement; and we've just hired and brought on Tom Callis, he's supporting our communications team. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I didn't hear my name mentioned, or Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder's. We represent Puna, and I know that we are in elected positions, but we have the support of, I'd like to think, our community. In my particular situation, I worked with a number of community folks to stand up Pu`uhonua `o Puna. I was there day -in, day -out. I know the needs of the community. And so the Interim Recovery Strategy which you've mentioned to the Council, I rewrote it because I wanted to make sure it was reflective of community sentiments. And I know we have restarted meeting, and that's helpful; but I think as we move forward, we need to have a better process that's more inclusive and a way to bring in the community's mana`o. I totally respect and appreciate every single one of those names that you mentioned that are helping us support recovery, but I am not happy with how things have progressed so far. I have a question about Impact Status Surveys. Because the same day that we were getting information about TMT, I received three separate emails related eruption recovery. And that concerns me because, one was about a speak -out that was happening ten days later, then there was stuff about the Institute for Sustainable Development, and the team being brought in to help with economic recovery planning which is very important. and then the third was a press release about the Impact Status Survey. I read the press release, and I was very surprised to learn that Council Members were going to be provided hard copies; because I went to check the mail, and I didn't have hard copies. And we connected with the media contact, who had no idea about hardcopies being transmitted to Council Members. I'm not trying to embarrass anybody, but I think there's so many silos still. And that with this recovery process, what's happened is by habit we've leaned on the silos we currently operate in with County operations. I don't want recovery another project that's managed. This is a huge opportunity that I don't want squandered. There's choke money coming in. So much money dedicated for the uplift of our community. It can do more than shift the tide. It can bring about that see -change that we've always needed in Puna. You know, Diane. You live in the Puna community. Your family lost in the lava flow, so you get it. And I appreciate your heart, and your dedication, and commitment. So I was little upset, I have to share with you, about these Impact Status Surveys. It's going to take you 35 minutes to take three surveys. Raise your hand in here, Page 8 FC -16 August 6, 2019 Puna, if you've taken the survey. Okay, I knew you guys were going to take it. But I've talked to a number of folks, and they're like, "Ash, I no more time," and I'm like, "No, but I need you to share what is on your heart and mind because this will help us in our decision-making." So, take a look at this postcard. Raise your hand if you have the QR (Quick Response) code app on your phone. Does everybody know what a QR code is? Jules, you don't count because you're IT (Information Technology). So it's this little pixelated square here, and there's an app on your phone; and if you click it, it takes you to a website. I don't have it on my phone, and I'm kind of a techy person. I asked my staff, "Do you have it on your phone," and they said, "No," I'm like, "Great, download it," "Ash, I got to pay. I got to pay in order to access the free trial for a few days." And then I looked at the URL (Uniform Resource Locator)—this is a beautiful postcard by the way; don't get me wrong, it's beautiful. But I came from PR (Public Relations) and Communications, I made dozens and dozens of these for clients, so I look at these with a very critical eye. Imagine typing in httpHrecovery.hawaiicounty.gov/connect/impact-status-survey-suite/. Would it have been easier to just say, "Go to recovery.hawaii.gov" or "hawaiicounty.gov" and click on the red button to take a survey? I mean, right there, just having to sit here and type into the computer I think turns a lot of people away. And the back and forth around when the surveys needed to be completed by. I have a new version of this, where it says, "The surveys are available online through August 30'h." But originally, the date was August 4' to collect the data needed for tonight's meeting, which I'm missing. I'm very sorry, there's a special Puna Community Development Plan Action Committee where the AC (Action Committee) is going to review these priorities and objectives. So all of that mana`o was going to be quantified, qualified, presented to the AC so they could discuss. Now we've expanded the deadline. The postcard that I got in the mail came on Saturday, and it advertised the speak -out that happened the week before. Oh, and here's another one, right? This postcard is going to Israel. So I'm curious as to the list and its development. Because why do we care about people in Israel, Australia, French Polynesia, Japan? All places this postcard has gone to; $10,925 in postage alone, not to mention time and materials to get these beautiful postcards out. Was there consideration to doing targeted ads on Facebook? Where, you could test photos, messaging, and see what is compelling people to click and take the survey. Maybe could have spent $250, $500 bucks. This is the kind of money you could have cut Lighthouse Road. And I know that there's a FEMA process around that. I'm ready to give $7,500 to that community out of my own Contingency Relief Funds to get them home, but I know I cannot because there's a process. Page 9 FC -16 August 6, 2019 I'm just tired of the process, and tired of the system, and tired of the silos. I'm tired of the apologies. I'm tired of looking at folks like Nicolette Douvris in the eye and say, "Please be patient, please wait. I aloha you. We're working really hard." I don't know what to say. MS. LEY: Well, if I may? The postcards—where adecision that was made based on community input. We were criticized for not communicating with all property owners. So the decision was made to mail out to all property owners within Puna. It was a conscious decision whether or not to send postcards to foreign countries. And I said, "Yes, they are property owners. The have a right to understand what's going on." And we hope that through the website, at minimum, because that website address is there, that they would be able to connect and be able to start receiving information regardless of whether they live in Puna, or they live in Japan, or Israel. So, that was one item. When we explored—we're government, so we do need to be judicious with our financial resources because they're public dollars. We explored doing having a commercial operation do the mailing so that it would be more timely. The cost was excessive we felt, so we worked within the County to secure the mailing and get that done. Unfortunately, we had machine break down and other work that got in the way. I apologize; I haven't been apologizing very often. But I'm going to apologize that I wasn't aware of the details that it was going too slowly. They came to me and they said, "We're not going to get these all done by the fourth, and I said, "That's okay, there's still important information. We can get it out." And then we changed the date and extended it. We extended it twice, and we'll continue to receive information. We're not perfect. We're doing what we can. We had various people review the postcard and give its okay and blessing. We're trying to be both modern as well as practical in getting information out. We have a lot to do, all of us, and so we're doing what we can every day. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I don't question the intention. It was a great idea. I question the timing. If we knew these surveys were going out and if we knew that we needed to communicate better, why were they going out so late? Knowing that we had send 50,000 out, it wasn't going to happen in three days. MS. LEY: We recognized that. We also—again, we started much earlier on the process, and it takes a long time. There's many people we have to go through and many places we have to touch. And when it comes to spending public dollars, again, you know, going out for—following the procurement process is time consuming. You know, that's the track we were headed down, and then we said, "That's going to touch too much." CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Joe? Page 10 FC -16 August 6, 2019 (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Hi. Your office, have they been consulted about the Land Trust? You guys have given your thumbs -up on moving that forward Love the idea. Love the concept. Council Member Lee Loy and I had been going to meetings about this concept since November. But I haven't really heard from your office. MR. KAMELAMELA: Good afternoon, Chair and members of the Committee. only know that it's a pilot concept right now, so it's just something to be tested out. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Have you weighed in on the pilot concept, though? MR. KAMELAMELA: No, not yet. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Do you plan to before we utilize $100,000 in public funds? MR. KAMELAMELA: I'm going to have—we have one deputy who has been involved, so I'm going to talk to him. We had Ronald Kim who's been assigned, so I'll have him weigh in on it. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Ron is fantastic. I trust his judgement. Thank you, Joe. MS. LEY: May I add to that? I think that there may be perceptions that this project is a lot further along than it is. Again, the Recovery Committee is working with a number of entities to explore the options. No agreements have been reached. No decisions have been reached. It's exploratory. And I agree, legal review needs to occur. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, thank you for allowing me latitude. I have another question. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I appreciate it. Because this is the district that I represent, and I want to make sure that I'm asking all of the questions because I've been intimately involved in this process. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. After you, I'll go to Ms. Poindexter. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. CHR. DAVID: Thanks. Page 11 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Director Ley, I have a number of `ohana that come to me that are working families: firefighters, fishermen, teachers, who lost everything or can't get home. They've exhausted many avenues: SBA (Small Business Administration), FEMA. They can't qualify for the low interest loans or the subsidies because they make too much. What resources are available to them? Can we consider a revolving loan program? Not something managed by the County because that's a lot of paperwork, but potentially with, I probably shouldn't name them, but there are community groups that exist that may be able to help us get that kokua out. I'm just concerned about there are some needs people need to resolve, and they don't need a lot. They might need $5 grand. They might $10 grand. They're willing to take out a loan. But they've exhausted all the options; so I'm curious, what's available to them? MS. LEY: Did Roy come in? Roy Takemoto was supposed to be here to address those questions. So it has been on the table as an option for—we looked at the County to re-establish a Revolving Loan Fund, you know, possibly under theI shouldn't say, not possibly, to refund the Revolving Loan Program that had been under the Office of Housing and Community Development. I don't know where—the status of that. Apparently, Roy had other obligations, so we'll have to get back to you on that. It has been on the table for part of the Housing options, a menu of options. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. I have a couple of other questions, but I'll yield at this time. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Ms. Poindexter, go ahead. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, on the team that you talked about, that was you know, Council Member Kierkiewicz said that she and Matt should be on. Are there any, like, association members, or like the president of? You know, I'm reading Andy Andrews, President for the Leilani Community Association (see Comm. 331.4) and, you know, how they're—he says, "We have residents and leaders who are right now working tirelessly to restore the safety, infrastructure, and beauty that are the proud hallmarks of Leilani Estates. What we lack is sufficient funding to make all of this happen." I don't know if they're at the table or not. MS. LEY: Okay, so much of the planning process and the functional areas are government related. We hired a team. We have a large team that is focused all working hours on community engagement. And some of the representation that the County has not engaged with the different homeowners associations, I feel is not exactly fair. We have engaged in various ways. Myself, I have met with most of the homeowners associations, including the combined association of Imua Puna. The Page 12 FC -16 August 6, 2019 Mayor has met. The Managing Director has met. Our Community Engagement Team, which consists of multiple employees and two vistas that are working full-time on community engagement. They've been out speaking both with associations as well as—not everybody is comfortable or represented by a board. They're not always comfortable coming to a board meeting or a hosted association meeting, so we've made an intentional effort to get out there to hear what the community wants, what their needs are. That effort has resulted in over 1,000 people speaking with us; that's over 800 adults and over 200 youths within Puna district. This has been an engagement in people's backyards, in people's carports, at churches, schools, community association buildings, wherever. Wherever people wanted us to meet, we met. Those are some of the direct contact points. We've also been holding—this is the only CDP (Community Development Plan) Committee that is routinely meeting, and I would say approximately every two months the Puna Community Development Action Committee has been meeting. Those are opportunities for the public to engage, the community to engage, and for the Engagement Team to be engaging with the Action Committee. Also, we're conducting the surveys that are going on and the speak -out. We anticipate doing anotherI don't know whether we'll call it a "speak out" or have the venue be that way, but we're planning another one for October. MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you for that and thank you for all of that outreach. But, you know, community associations, I would love to have them at the table because then the rest of the community knows that they'll be at the table. We've got to somehow be able to build healthy communities through their associations, and if some are not participating, maybe this is a way to help those associations build community. Because we're going to fall off at some point, yeah, and you're still going to have the community association there and the people who are just kind of disconnected. So I'm looking at how can we bring the associations to the table and somehow try to build you know, as they go back into the community, build those relationships. Because once we're going, then we've built—we've put strength into those associations. I think that's what's lacking now because we, a lot of times, work in all in these different puzzle pieces. We need to somehow support the associations and help them build capacity because should they become isolated again, they have each other. MS. LEY: I totally agree with you. I've been there, done that myself, you know, board member and president. I always support financially whatever community I'm living in, that association. But I guess part of the challenge is, like us, we will turn over, so do the association boards. Some of them quicker, you know, and with more frequency. Page 13 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MS. POINDEXTER: But the difference there, yes administrations change, right? Administrations change. Community board members change, but they remain in the community. MS. LEY: That's true. MS. POINDEXTER: You know, 99 percent of the time, right? Sometimes they leave, but most of the time boards change over, community members change over, but they're still part of that community. And that's all that I'm trying to say is, how was administration—as administrations changes every four years or maybe eight if you're lucky to get in another term, you know, how do we make sure that when we leave we have built healthy communities, and trying to engage those associations? MS. LEY: So one of the—there could be more engagement with the administration. It does take a lot of time. We've also found that at times the community association and its members, you know, we've gone—everybody has gone through trauma. When we started meeting with some of the associations in December. That was just validated last week when I was meeting with one of the associations, and a member said, "Well, we didn't know what we wanted in December. We were too much in trauma." So, we'll all working through this together. I think the Puna Strong Grant Program, that pilot should be a good opportunity. It's also an important opportunity to get public monies to a nonprofit that can get the money out to associations. MS. POINDEXTER: So they need to start looking at fiscal conduits, maybe, and working with somebody who's a nonprofit in that area. MS. LEY: Yes. MS. POINDEXTER: But I do appreciate all the work that you've done because whenever you're dealing with recovery, a lot of people providing all these resources, and you're being pulled in all these different directions. The important thing is that the communities' voices are heard. You guys are doing outreach, taking all this data, and kind of engaging with the community. But like said, I'd love to see more of the community building. MS. LEY: Okay. MS. POINDEXTER: But thank you. Thank you so much. MS. LEY: Sure. Thank you. I do want to just add one more point. Probably in the next day or two, on the recovery website we will be posting some of the Page 14 FC -16 August 6, 2019 findings of the comments on objectives that have been lifted up, so please—look forward to sharing that with you all. CHR. DAVID: Oh, you yield? Thank you. Anyone else? Oh, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Earlier today we talked about being patient and having empathy, and sometimes I think we lose track of how we can be and how we are, and what it's like to be up here and what it's like to be there. I think it's important for us to remember that if we're going to break out of silo mentalities and we're going to fix what's happening, then we're going to have to work together. I haven't met with you as much as I should have. I think we should meet more. Sounds like you and Ashley and I should sit down together and discuss things, and maybe work out plans that can get what is wanted done. But we are going to have to sit down and work together. I'm not going to blame you for not moving fast enough. I don't feel that's going to be productive. It is late; it's late in the day. But as a boss in the field as a crew leader, I can butt heads with you and tell you, "Hey, I want it faster." But at the end of the day, and I come over there, I'll have to work with you to get it done quicker. That's what I have to do. As easy to sit in the chair and say, "Hey, do it faster, get it done," that's the office mentality that always bothered me. So can we help you get it done quicker if we combine legislative body with R&D? And you're short of men, too. You just lost Ron, so you're short. You're second in command, and we're expecting you to get stuff done faster. But without jumping on that side and working with you, it's like that classic picture of the leader and the boss. You have a boss who's going to sit there and snap the whip, and then you have the leader who's going to jump in and help push the block up the hill. I think it may be time for us to jump in and be part of it. Because we can complain about everything she's doing, or we can get mad, we can get frustrated, but at the end of the day for not helping her push the block up the hill when we're right next to her—you know, R&D's office. You know, I don't know that we're going to get the headway that the community is telling us, we may not be translating to her. I don't know. I'm watching this unfold, and I've been watching this for months. And we pushing and saying, "More, more, faster, faster." But there's a process here we're dealing with, and the process is frustrating, and we know that. I knew that walking in, that this was going to be hard. People told me that, "You're going to be frustrated with the process because the process is so long and so constraining." So I think sometimes we've got to switch and go back to being crew lead workers and go bus on the other side of the field. Page 15 FC -16 August 6, 2019 So, maybe this is the time. And it's probably late, and I'm sorry, whoever is watching. It's probably little bit late, but maybe it's time to jump in on the other side and start pushing from the other side because I think she could use the help right now. I've been watching you and your character as you went through this meeting, and I think it's time for us to be on that side with you. MS. LEY: I just want to say that I think the Council has been responsive and supportive of this entire process. Yeah, government doesn't work at the speed the community always wants. But we are responsible to all of the community, not individuals within the community. And so we have to follow the law, follow the rules. Yeah, but at the same time, you know, work creatively. So, we do welcome input. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How about tomorrow? I don't know if you're going to be here tomorrow. MS. LEY: I will be. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'll be right here. But can you schedule a time, perhaps with Ashley and me? We can sit down and work out a solid schedule and help achieve the goals, and just starting cracking it like we should have. I'm not saying we haven't been doing anything. I'm just saying I think we're going to change the way we attack it a little bit. MS. LEY: We're here for you guys. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And that way MS. LEY: We all need to be in this together. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because you're missing your person, yeah? MS. LEY: I'm working on securing a deputy. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So in the meantime, you're short. I just feel like—we can complain about it all day long, but until I'm sitting on that side with you than I'm not getting as much done as maybe we could, if we work together. So we're going to break out of the silo. We're going to go creative thinking outside of the box. We can start attacking the problems that we want to see done faster, and hopefully spend some money and get things done quicker, and kind of focus on being better and more patient and having more empathy and being better. Is that—would you be okay with that? Ashley, you okay with that? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes. And I'd like to respond, Chair. CHR. DAVID: Whenever you yield. Page 16 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Mr. Kierkiewicz. Oh, Ms. Lee Loy first. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. So I, too, am incredibly frustrated; and I just say that because when we hustled the money up at the Legislature, myself, Ms. Kierkiewicz, Mr. Richards, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, we were in the trenches for a lot of this money. And then we came back and we realized we had to put together some new framework about how to spend this money. As Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder mentioned—and I completely respect him as a Freshman trying to learn all the different steps. So I took it upon myself, with Ms. Kierkiewicz, using the skillsets that I had, to help craft and draft some of the policy that was needed for the recovery piece. So there's just two more parts, legislative parts to come forward. One is the resolution, and one is the amendment to a section of our Code. Unfortunately, or fortunately, because of the Sunshine Law, some of this stuff has to happen with Ashley, myself, and the Recovery team. But you're absolutely right, I mentioned this a month ago, this is a perfect transition period for myself and Ms. Kierkiewicz to present on that side of the table with the administration the resolution and the Code amendments that have to happen. And then I welcome a tag -out, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, because it is your community. We will have developed the framework on moving this money through the community and getting some of these things done. I'm frustrated because we are a year later still talking about the same things. So with that, Diane, you know I always stand ready to help. But we have number of skillsets right here on the Council; land -use skillsets, community engagement, understanding processes. The administration, really—and it's not just you, Diane, I know you have some other bosses, but we've got to work together. The community deserves that partnership. And I gave my commitment to you and Roy, as did Ms. Kierkiewicz, over a month ago that we would sit on that side of the table as we present the resolution and the Code amendments to demonstrate how the Council as a legislative body is working in partnership with the administration to serve community. That's what we're after. I like this actually, because I like clearing the air so that we all can get back to work. I really had some questions about the Land Trust. You know, this Community Land Trust pilot advancement, from a land use standpoint, and the expenditures of public money on private property, I'm having a challenge with that. And to have learned today that, you know, our publishing counsel hasn't kind of weighed in on that, I'm a little anxious about how we look at the lease, how execute that agreement. Page 17 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MS. LEY: Again, these were conceptual conversations. My understanding is there was a meeting with the folks that have been it's a rather large group that's been working on the concept. Things were said at that meeting which were not agreements with the County, with the administration. I wasn't at the meeting, but it has been relayed to me, the concern; I did raise it. We do have a public process to follow, and we will do that. We will not be going out and just expending down funds, public resources, on public property without having follow the process and checking with Corporation Counsel. And again, I apologize, I'm not involved in that project. The concepts seems like it's one of—multiple vehicles that will get people home, or to a new home. So, I appreciate it. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, absolutely. MS. LEY: But raising it with Corporation Counsel, we'll definitely move back with that. MS. LEE LOY: Absolutely. And like Ms. Kierkiewicz—she and I were in that meeting, and she and I had a ton of questions. The fact that she and I were asking these questions, I was kind of taken aback. The one other thing, aside from all of this, there's some other options that I also would like to explore. Council Member Richards and I had a meeting yesterday with our Lieutenant Governor on how possibly we could do some type of loan programs that would help people stand up housing. It's something that we have to explore a little further with Deanna as far as these kind of government -backed loans, at low interest rates, in which people could possibly stand up housing. But I'm not going to stop looking for options. I want to hand off the work to Ms. Kierkiewicz and Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, so they can engage community and deliver while I continue to explore other options with Mr. Richards. Like I said earlier, I like clearing the air. We needed to have this. We needed to clear the air of the frustration, so we can all take a deep breath and start working together again. But I don't want to be here a year from now talking about the exact same thing. It's far too frustrating. So with that, those were my comments. Thank you. Thank you for all of your hard work. We're all working very hard, but we have skillsets too here on the Council. The administration has to take a deep breath and let us help, too. With that, Chair, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. I'm going to Mr. Chung and then I'll go to Ms. Villegas. Page 18 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MR. CHUNG: Where do I begin, right? Diane, I guess the first thing I have to say is you and I have worked together for many, many years. The last thing I want to do is put you on the spot. And I know you didn't volunteer for this job, right? "Oh yeah. Hey, Mayor, assign me to this task," right? We all know that. But, you're in that seat now. One of the themes of what has been said today is, "We're here to help." I think at least a few of us, if not all of us, have at one time or another told the Mayor, and maybe you, "We're here to help." Just engage us. We have all these different skillsets, these resources. If the administration is going to be the leader, then just pull in these different resources and skillsets. Let us know how we can be a part of the solution. I haven't seen that yet. And now Matt is saying, well, now it's time for us to kind of push you guys, I mean, I think that's what you said. Well, I don't know, it was a little different from that. It wasn't really "with." It was like maybe help being moved. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Instead of this, do this. Let's go together. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, well, when you do this, it's like pushing, right? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No, with though. We all stand together. MR. CHUNG: Not like this, right? But anyway—and if it sounds like a criticism, I'm trying to do my best to make it really positive. But let's go back in time here. You know, I had tasked some of the members on this Council to do one thing at the very beginning, and that was to secure funding at the State Legislature. That was the top priority at that time, okay. And if we also think back, what was the major impediment at that time? Lack of specificity. That was being asked for by the Legislature, and we had to work through that; and quite frankly, I've got to say this, our team got that money without any specificity. Because we were still waiting, but the Legislature was going to end already, yeah, and they came through. I still don't see it, you know, Diane. And it's not your fault, I think it's just a function of people not really working together. You know, and I saw this several months ago, actually when Nancy (Crawford) when she was at one of our meeting. You know, she's always so nice and pleasant, but even she showed some frustration. We had a big opportunity at the front-end to engage the community and get them mobilized and moving forward, really hard. I think we've lost them. We have to somehow re-engage them, re-energize them. I don't know how that's done, though. I really don't. You know, these are my concerns. Page 19 FC -16 August 6, 2019 Like, for example, let's go back today even. We talk about speed humps, right? Everybody here is pleading with the administration, "Please, just put in those three speed humps." Very simple, but no, there's a process we have to do things in, and it takes a while. You weren't here. None of you guys were here. But it seems like a very simple thing, and quite frankly, I think it could be done simply. Same thing with that road and that 700 -foot finger of lava. I know everybody is saying there's a process, but there's got to be a way around it. There has to be. How can government run so inefficiently? Cannot be like that, okay? I mean, I'm just MS. LEY: You want me to share with the process? MR. CHUNG: No. No, no, no. MS. LEY: Okay, because they're FEMA's rules. It's not the County's rules. MR. CHUNG: I just don't want find ways of finding, though. MS. LEY: Okay. MR. CHUNG: There's got to be a way to say "yes," okay? And that's just an example. MS. LEY: We have shared with that community, the Puna community, ways to get around, and they can do it over private property. The grubbing and grading permit, if they're moving more than an acre. MR. CHUNG: Are we assisting them financially? MS. LEY: We have told them well, financially—so that's MR. CHUNG: Look, I don't want to MS. LEY: Alright. Okay. MR. CHUNG: You know, it's late. MS. LEY: Okay. MR. CHUNG: We've got other matters here. MS. LEY: That's fine. We can explain to individual Council Members. That's fine. Page 20 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MR. CHUNG: Yeah. But it has been a really long haul. I know you and Ron had explained to me months ago that this is something that's going to take a long time, and we're in it for the long haul. But there has to be some things that we can at least wrap our arms around. I justI, quite frankly, don't see it. That's only my perception. And maybe other people in that community might say, "Hey, Aaron, you're wrong." But Highway 132 is happening. That's good. But remember what we had to go through with that whole process, right? MS. LEY: I do. I do understand what— MR. CHUNG: And if I recall correctly, I was an apologist for the administration at the front-end, when there were some suggestions that the administration wasn't moving fast enough, and I said, "Well, give them time." I distinctly recall that. I didn't want to put you guys in a box. But after a while, it became like pulling teeth. You know, when we had this arbitrary, I think it was a six-month waiting period. And then all of a sudden now we're moving, and that's good. That's terrific. But I just don't see anything happening. And we have the money. I don't want to sound negative, and we all want to help. I'm all in favor of what Matt suggested, going together. But it needs for you guys to engage us because we don't know what—how we fit into your plan. Because if not, if we start developing our own plan and you guys go off on your own, then it's going to be dysfunctional. Just let us know what we can do, please. Please, we've been pleading with you guys for the longest time. And maybe that's the frustrating part for me. Anyway, thanks. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Villegas, go ahead. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Diane, for being here and enduring such a very plethora of comments and insights. I justI liked you when I met first met you and sat with you and Ron shortly after the inauguration. I could see the strain, and you handle it with humor and grace. But the strain and your honesty of admitting that you guys had been working double -duty, trying to do the other job of R&D and then also managing everything that had happened within the year with all of the devastation from the lava flow and Hurricane Lane, and I just want to point that out in honor that and recognize that last year you were working double -duty the whole time. And now you're working double -duty again with the loss of your deputy. It was my experience, of the two of you, that you worked in synchronicity and really got a lot of done and supported one another. So my heart goes out to you for having that challenge and then having you know, even just finding another person to be the deputy is a whole another focus to try to accomplish. Page 21 FC -16 August 6, 2019 I also want to recognize that you're kind of in a Catch-22. If you had come up with the plans, created everything, made it all go through, and spent the money, you will still be sitting here probably and being harped on for spending the money in the wrong places or not pleasing somebody in whatever plan was strategized and went through too quickly. Here you are sitting here today taking some heat for not going fast enough. So I just to recognize that you're in a Catch-22 position, and I'm sorry for that. I also agree in the servant leadership model of getting next to you or behind you and helping to push what can be pushed through, and the other parts of the legal process and the structure that they are what they are, to also stand beside you and validate that. And, educate others. You know, I was just trying to look up how long did it take for the victims of Hurricane Katrina and the victims of other natural disasters around the country. Is there some data about the amount of time that's "normal" to get people back to some form of normalcy? And I don't know that there's a precedent for a lava flow, not only within the State but within the country. And I am sure there is some international examples, but this is a very unique situation and circumstance. So I personally want to thank you for your endurance, for your resilience, and for your continued courage to lead a department in a process and a project that is in so many ways thankless. So, that's just what I wanted to share. While I am on the complete other side of the island, and I recognize the luxury, and I'm grateful that I'm not representing a district that has been so heavily impacted, and its constituents devasted in so many ways. But if there is anything that you might need, please don't hesitate to ask. MS. LEY: If I may respond? I just want to share— CHR. DAVID: Thank you. MS. LEY: Is it okay? CHR. DAVID: Yes, go ahead. MS. LEY: I just want to say that it's not, "Woe is me." Certainly, you know, we have through the summer months, we brought onactually, in the Spring—we brought on two strong consultant teams. Tetra Tech, which is helping us with overall recovery, strategic planning process of framework. They are doing a lot of the heavy lift in terms of data analysis that is going to be required to submit a strong disaster relief application to HUD (Housing and Urban Development) and bring additional dollars home. Page 22 FC -16 August 6, 2019 They'll also will be taking the information that we're gaining from the community through our engagement process and being able to help to synthesize that into different scenarios that the community will also, as well as you folks, will be able to weigh in on and provide feedback, too. Through that process, we will be able to identify specific initiatives or projects that, again, we can apply for the Disaster Relief Funds from HUD as well as spend down the $20 million—the $40 million in loans. But we could do it with forethought and with a public process that has been vetted and weighed in on. The Tetra Tech team is a strong team. They don't have a lot of people on island, but that doesn't mean they don't have the reach that we need. They've been through this process before with other communities, so that's the strength that they bring. And then we also have the Institute for Sustainable Development that's assisting us with the business recovery planning process. So that will, again, these are professionals that work in the disaster field in helping people come out of disasters to recovery to a better place. To a much better place. So that's what really what we're looking forward to. So while our team has changed significantly you know, we all miss Ron Whitmore. He brought so many strengths. He was a brilliant man and not onlya workhouse. I'm sounding like I'm doing a eulogy for him. He's gone to a different job. But we do miss him on the team. But again, we've evolved. We've evolved before. Further engagement with the Council, whether it's a suggestions and policya yeah, yeah, yeah, or actual projects, and Code changes. Yes, we definitely can work together. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Director. Do you yield? Thank you. Mr. Richards and then I will go to Ms. Kierkiewicz to wrap this up because we have two more items on this agenda. And thank you so much for your patience, everybody. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. The sun is still up, so we're still okay. Diane, thanks for being here. Kind of spring -boarding off a little bit of what Chair Chung had said. There's no book to tell us how to do this, which is part of the problem. All the things you've articulated is almost self-evident as far as going through it. What Ms. Kierkiewicz and Ms. Lee Loy have been working on with you, going forward, I like Ms. Lee Loy's concept of the handoff and getting ready. So, Matt, getting ready to jump in and help get the boots on the ground and get things shifted. I have to agree with Chair Chung that we need to push to get things actually happening so that the community can see that. And it is east side, it is the greater Page 23 FC -16 August 6, 2019 Puna area, so obviously the representation over there should be taking lead and help get that orchestrated. But we've got to get stuff done. I'm intrigued by Council Woman Lee Loy's concept of working on a little bit different project, so we will embrace that, and go forward to see if we can come up with the way to help out from a little bit different angle and go forward. But the need, without question, is to make something happen. And I appreciate everything going forward. But as the Chair has pointed out, there's got to be a way to work through this so we can make things happen quicker. I'm sure other places have gone through these things. You know me, I'm not really good at staying in the box. I like to start thinking outside there. We'll be helping, but we'll be pushing to get some things done because the community needs it. I know you support that; the Council supports that. But we've got to push it in some direction. So I'm going to go ahead and yield. Thank you, Chair. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Diane, I don't know if I told you this, I might have, but I admire you so much. When I found out that I was going to be working with you, I was really excited because I heard many good things about what you've done for the agricultural community, but the kind of leadership that you've brought to R&D. It's been my pleasure to work with you. I enjoy our meetings. We had a very long conversation on Friday, where you knew I was going to be asking hard questions. It was nothing personal, but these were things that we felt—we both agreed needed to be put out in the public sphere so that people knew that we were going through some growing pains. Because like Council Member Richards says, it's uncharted territory that we are venturing into. I think it's really sweet that Matt has suggested we work together. Lava recovery has been one of my top priorities, in addition to addressing squatters, this term. And I'm very proud that I've been able to do and the kind of skillsets I've brought to the table. I'm going to do a little humble brag here, because it was the creativity of Council Member Lee Loy and I in amending Bill 12, where we were able to put money into the hands of the community. And so you and I met to talk about how we were going to honor the applications for remaining $38,000 directed to roads recovery and how that's going to be put into hands of the community very soon, in a matter of weeks, so that they can go home. We also talked about how we could leverage that $45,000 and put it back into the hands of farmers. I went out of my way to go find two entities to match us, Page 24 FC -16 August 6, 2019 $45,000. So I've tripled it, I made it $135,000. I've been pushing for the Puna Strong program. I've been working in partnership with the administration. Whether they want me there or not, they recognize what I bring to the table, and that is heart, commitment, passion, a real genuine interest to take care of community. And so I stand ready to work with you. I always have. I have been, and I continue to work in partnership with you. And if people want to come along, hey, jump on the bandwagon. It's always been there. Just needed to show up and jump on board. I do like the idea of some kind of stakeholders working group. I think you were watching the video stream when we established one for apiaries. But if maybe we can go over the calendar that you've put together and see if there are some community touchpoints and mechanisms that we could stand up, that would be very meaningful. Where we're going out into the community and capturing their sentiment and using that to push forward our priorities and projects. I'd like to be able to work with you in getting that done. Thank you. I will see you this Friday for our now standing weekly meetings regarding recovery. Thank you. Thanks for being here today. I know you took a lot of heat, but it wasn't ever directed at you. It was, I think, collective frustration in the process. These are the growing pains. It's important kuleana that we've taken up, because the work we do is going to be so useful in how we recover for future disasters. So, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Maybe when Ashley and Sue finish up with this resolution that's happening, let me know. Let me know when I can jump in; I'd appreciate that. Then I can help. And you can tag me in or tag me out, or whatever you're going to do. But just let me know when you guys are done. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. I think that brought us to the end of discussion, I think, on this. Unless anyone else has anything to say, I will just say thank you very much, Director, for being here and for being very receptive of the suggestions that were made. I believe that the suggestion that Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder has made, I really think that would be a great step in helping you because I know that you're taking on such a huge task. I just feel helpless, or hopeless, in being able to help. But I know you have a lot of people who've offered to help you. And I will offer also, any way that I can. So thank you so much for all your hard Page 25 FC -16 August 6, 2019 work and continued hard work. And on that, all those in favor of filing Communication 331.2 please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 331.2: The motion to close file on Comm. 331.2 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Council Members, we have two items. Could I possibly take Resolution 236, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder? It's going to be very quick; I assume because we have Director Ung here. Change Order of As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, Business: the following item was taken out of order: Res. 236-19: AUTHORIZES THE PAYMENT OF FUNDS OF A LATER FISCAL YEAR AND OF MORE THAN ONE FISCAL YEAR FOR MULTI-YEAR LEASES OF REAL PROPERTY FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII DEPARTMENT OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY AND OFFICE OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT Authorizes the Mayor to enter into five-year lease agreements with an option for an additional five years with Kaneshiro & Sons Enterprise, Limited and Glenn Kaneshiro Partnership, to allow for the continued occupancy of warehouse space located at 1990 Kino`ole Street in Hilo. Reference: Comm. 387 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Villegas moved to recommend adoption of Res. 236-19. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter. (Note: At this time, Real Property Manager Hamana Ventura came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. DAVID: Mr. Ventura, in Kona, thank you so much for your patience. If you could go ahead and just give us a brief explanation of this lease renewal. MR. VENTURA: Good afternoon, Chair David, and members of the County Council. Hamana Ventura, Property Manager. Page 26 FC -16 August 6, 2019 We'd like to ask at this time that you consider multi-year leases for both Housing office and the Office of Information Technology. We spent quite a bit of time trying to find another land use spot for Office of Housing, which it's currently been split—which is previously been split between Armory and this current facility, so what we're trying to do is give them an opportunity to work out of the same area. We have additional space that we'd like to use for Office of Information Technology (IT). CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much. Council Members, do we have any questions for Mr. Ventura? No? Great. Mr. Ventura, what is the lease amount? I was looking at the documents. What is the lease amount going to be for that facility? Both departments are going to share, right? MR. VENTURA: Correct. We're looking at a total of $19,000 a month for Housing, and $8,700 for Information of Technology. CHR. DAVID: Okay, that's total—we're adding $19,000. Is that annual? MR. VENTURA: No, per month. CHR. DAVID: Per month, $1,900 and $8,700? MR. VENTURA: $19,000. CHR. DAVID: A month? MR. VENTURA: We're talking—we have 10,000 square feet that we're leasing out for Office of Housing, and 5,000 for Information Technology. CHR. DAVID: I see. Wow, okay. Well, thank you very much for that. Council Members, any more questions? Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Hamana. I appreciate Chair asking the dollars because I was trying to get there, but my brains is not working, it's 6:00 o'clock right now. What is that—this is a lease renewal, so what are the terms from the previous lease? What kind of percentage of increase is this? MR. VENTURA: Actually, Office of Housing, Section 8, was there and have been there since 2004. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. MR. VENTURA: The remainder of Housing has been at Armory. We've been trying for the last couple of years to relocate out of Armory, and so we've located space over at 1990 Kino`ole. The space was previously occupied by the State. We worked in conjunction with the State, waiting for them to vacate the space, so Page 27 FC -16 August 6, 2019 now we were able to get Housing into the larger space of 10,000 square feet. They're all together. And then Office of Information Technology is going to be moving there, as well. So we have an opportunity to help them expand and put in additional areas for IT and training. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. I guess I'm going to need to look at some numbers. Chair, so at this point I'm going to yield. Actually, Hamana, can you put together a spreadsheet proforma for us last year versus year, so the Council can review that? I think that would be helpful for us to make a final decision. MR. VENTURA: Okay. MR. RICHARDS: Appreciate it. Thank you. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Anyone else? Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Yes, I agree with Mr. Richards. I'd be more than willing to move this out of Committee. But if before we get to Council, we can look at that spreadsheet. That would be incredibly helpful. So with that, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? Seeing none, all those in favor of approving Resolution 236-19 and forward to Council with a positive recommendation please say "aye." Vote on Res. 236-19: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 236-19 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Eoff, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung and Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder — 2. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, before you read Communication, could we take like a five-minute recess? Thank you. We're in recess. Five minutes? Seven minutes? Alright, seven minutes. We're in recess. Thank you. Recess: At 6:21 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 6:28 p.m. CHR. DAVID: Council Members, I'm taking the meeting out of recess. Mr. Clerk, can you please read in Communication 369, please? Page 28 FC -16 MR. BROWN: Certainly. Return to Order of The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business. Business: August 6, 2019 Comm. 369: REQUESTS A FINANCE REPORT OF COUNTY EXPENSES RELATING TO MAUNA KEA From Council Member Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, dated July 15, 2019. (Note: Comm. 369.2, from Council Member Maile David dated August 20, 2019, transmitting letter from Governor David Y. Ige , was circulated.) (Note: Comm. 369.4, from Finance Director Deanna Sako dated August 19, 2019, transmitting spreadsheet regarding costs for Mauna Kea Assistance, was circulated.) (Note: Comm. 369.7 from Maui County Mayor Michael P. Victorino dated July 17, 2019, was circulated.) Motion to Close File: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to close file on Comm. 369. Seconded by Ms. Eoff. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: First of all, thank you everyone who came here to talk about this and then waited until 6:30 to actually talk about it. Good job. Arielle, I see you. Good job. Deanna, you came; and Steve, please. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako and Deputy Director Steve Hunt came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So this is part of an ongoing, you know, questioning and discovery process. I'm really trying to break down what we're spending, where we're at. I am aware that we may not have the numbers that have been spent from July 15th to now because of our way our pay periods work. MS. SAKO: Uh-huh. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So I'm just going to—we're going to kind of bounce around a little bit. It may be that I ask to postpone this towards the end when we have better—more solid numbers, and more numbers to look at. But I do just want to take a few of these points out of the way in the beginning, and then we'll open it up for questions. So how do we track our expenses? We've had a lot of different departments involved. I know there had to be prep work involved in this project that would Page 29 FC -16 August 6, 2019 have went before we actually went to the mountain. It has to be. You've got to have meetings. You've got to buy equipment. You've got to prep. You've got to talk story. So knowing those are out there, how do we track them? How does that process work for the County? So that I can understand that? MS. SAKO: So in general, we have multiple departments that track hours on a regular basis. So let's take Housing who has numerous grants, right? They might track internally so that they can allocate the time to the appropriate grant funding. So in this case if it's like a county -wide event, like a hurricane or something else, then we'll set up a project accounting number so that departments can charge all the expenses to that project accounting code so that we could just run a report and see the total. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So it's like we'll use an internal tracking code? MS. SAKO: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And do we have an internal tracking code set up for this fiscal year for Mauna Kea expenses, and for last fiscal year? I'm guessing, but I feel pretty accurate knowing that we had pre -work happening in prepping gear, having meetings, and getting all the different departments on board. Because you just don't just jump into July 15'h and start thinking about it then. MS. SAKO: We had set it up for this fiscal year and may have been set up at the end of last fiscal year, but I don't think so. Any prep work, I don't believe people were tracking that, necessarily. Most of the expenses, or all the expenses that I ran started on—like July 15'h, at that point. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So we really only had expenses since July 15'h? MS. SAKO: That, yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Or we've only been tracking them since then. MS. SAKO: Yes, tracking. You know, departments may have been tracking, and we didn't ask them for that time prior. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And what departments have you asked? MS. SAKO: We didn't ask, but we could; you know, like Corp. Counsel, and Police, and others, probably may have had time. But I didn't ask them. Page 30 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Do you even ask, like the admin., how much time they spent? You know, how much how many meetings there were? Not asking meetings, but manhours. How deep do we go? MS. SAKO: We didn't ask this time, but we could. Typically, it's like a hurricane or something, right, and so we kind of know we're prepping for that. And so at that point, they start coding their time, and it's anybody who works on it. But historically, we've tracked costs that we would not normally have incurred. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MS. SAKO: So like for administration, or take Steve and I, we don't get overtime. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MS. SAKO: Okay, so whatever time we might have spent prior, it was no additional cost to the County. It may have shifted what we did, but we didn't incur any additional cost. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so it may remove you from your job slightly, or add to your job duties, but there wouldn't be any extra incurred costs for the department heads? MS. SAKO: Right. So like when you said like administration, I mean, that's yeah, like department head type levels that don't get overtime, there is probably no time included. But anybody who earns overtime, and if they worked overtime for the project, it would get included. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So recap really fast, so we may have incurred cost last fiscal year, 2018? MS. SAKO: 2019. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But we're not sure? MS. SAKO: It would have to have just be Planning, and no one let us know that were significant costs. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can we find that information out? MS. SAKO: We can try and find out, yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can you find out for me? Because I'm going to dig. And then because supposedly, we're going to get reimbursed by Page 31 FC -16 August 6, 2019 the State. But either way, it's coming out of our pockets, because it's either coming out of our State taxes or it's coming out of our County taxes. I don't care one way or the other, I just want to know what we spent because I want people to know. I do need to reiterate, practicing my patience and my empathy, that this is nothing to do with you. But you have the information that I want. MS. SAKO: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So I'm not meaning to dig at you at all. Okay, soI know one of my previous concerns was 2015 expenses. How did we track that, or did we? MS. SAKO: We did not. The Police Department, I believe, can produce the number if they needed to. But it was a very different event. They were called in after it started. My understanding is they were assigned a very specific area. They did not have as many officers up there. You know, I'm sure the Chief can give you more information. But it was a very different event and relatively short- lived in hindsight. I want to say primarily just Police was involved. So I don't know that it was a county -wide event or that we thought about it in time to start tracking. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So 2015, we may or may have not tracked? MS. SAKO: Police may have internally. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: They may have internally. So I would have to go to the Police Chief and ask for the numbers from them. MS. SAKO: I mean, we can ask. What I'm guessing is that, you know, on their daily, like logs and whatnot, it probably got recorded that may have worked on Mauna Kea that day. I don't know that anyone took the time to take that information and cost it out. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I think we should know. MS. SAKO: They may have. I'm just saying, yeah, that they may not. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can you ask for me because I think you might make or headway than I will? Because you know how to ask; I don't know how to ask. I'd appreciate that very much. So 2015, we may or may not have tracked. Currently, do we have any numbers currently? Just come back to that. Page 32 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MS. SAKO: So as a reminder, just when you think about how we pay, we pay salary currently, and overtime one pay period later. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. MS. SAKO: So when everybody got their paycheck on the 31" of July, it had their current salary. But any overtime from the first half of July; so based on when the event start, July 15'h, that was only day of overtime that's been paid so far. Okay, so the total cost that we have in the system is $258,000, and that includes fringe benefits for any overtime worked, as well, plus miscellaneous costs. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, and that's just the first to the fifteenth? MS. SAKO: The miscellaneous cost would be through today, when I ran the report. But the labor portion, is just for the 15'h. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So $258,000, that is labor from the first to the fifteenth? MS. SAKO: Yeah labor was $236,000 of that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And we haven't even hit like the main section of work done, wow. And then the other $12,000—sorry, $22,000 MS. SAKO: $22,000, it was just miscellaneous. I didn't run the detailed version. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And that's from July 1" to August 5�h, 6�h? MS. SAKO: Yeah, probably yesterday. But it's also whatever was actually paid, so there could be other costs that have been incurred but not paid yet. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Interesting. Do you have any idea what that would be? MS. SAKO: No, not until we pay them. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How long do they have to pay that? MS. SAKO: We try to pay all our bills, you know, within 30 days or so. It depends when the invoice goes in. It doesn't post to our reports until it actually gets paid. Page 33 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so numbers that were missing then would be the numbers for labor between the 15'h to the, well, to current. And then we wouldn't get overtime, though, numbers until August what? Fifteenth? MS. SAKO: So August 15, when the paycheck gets posted then we'll have additional information. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: August 15 we'll see the OT (Over Time). I'm guessing, because I countedI mean, we had Fire there, we had Police there. I counted between 14 to 20 of our own officers in their personal cars on the way down. From just Mauna Kea access road down to Hilo, I counted about 14 to 20. So I'm guessing that our overtime amount, at 12 -hour shifts is going to be big. Can you explain to me how the—I did ask Police to be here, but they have CALEA (Commission on Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agencies) accreditation, and too, we ran about four hour later in our meeting, so that's another reason I'd like to postpone this until later. Can you help me break down the way the overtime works for the Police Department? Do you understand their contract and how they break down? MS. SAKO: I can give you the general pieces of it. I don't have it memorized. So we'll just talk overtime in general. So any employee that works over eight hours a day would earn overtime; and then if you work over 40 hours a week, you would earn overtime. And then if you have things like less than 10 hours or 12 hours rest, depending on which contract you're in, you also earn additional overtime pay. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I mean, for me, for where I work, it's always if you get 40 hours a week or more, that's OT, but I think for Police it works differently. MS. SAKO: Pretty much all of our Collective Bargaining Units, anything over eight hours a day is overtime. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So eight hours a day is overtime. So when we do—we have set shifts at 12 hours for every officer that's up on the mauna, then we would have guaranteed four hours of overtime? MS. SAKO: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then I think, too, in the bargaining there's also another step, where if you hit "x" amount of consecutive days in a row, you would get another multiplier. Is that right? MS. SAKO: Right, or like less than so many hours of rest. If you have to report within less than 10 hours or 12 hours, yes, you had additional multipliers; as well Page 34 FC -16 August 6, 2019 as if you happened to work on a holiday, which I don't think we've had yet in this incident. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So with a 12 -hour shifts that we have currently, and less than 12 hours rest in between, we would actually be hitting another multiplier on top of overtime? MS. SAKO: Well, it converts straight hours into overtime hours. That's what happens, yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But not just regular overtime, we're actually hitting like double -overtime. MS. SAKO: So let's say someone worked from noon to midnight tonight and then they were asked to report at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow, then the first four hours of their shift would be at overtime rates because they had less than 10 hours rest. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So maybe you can stack really fast. Whoa, my five minutes. Are you sure you were counting me the whole time? Did you do my breaks nicely? That's a really nice shirt Aaron. It's a really nice shirt. MR. BROWN: We focus at the business -at -hand and when our awesome Finance team was talking, make sure that is not reflected on your seconds, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I'm going to yield, and I'm going to come back in a few minutes. I'll collect my thoughts. I think I get another like 20 minutes after I yield the first time, right? No, an hour? MR. BROWN: According to our rules, that would not be correct. CHR. DAVID: Alright, Ms. Lee Loy. Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MS. LEE LOY: Yes, thank you. I'm just going to help Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder because I know where he's going with this. So in addition to overtime, the breaks, could you also look at the night differential? Because I also know under their Bargaining Unit contract, if they work a 12 -hour shift, but if it's a night, there's a night differential that they also get paid. MS. SAKO: There are night differential. There are meals, which I believe we were providing, so there's things like that. The night differential piece of it, I can just tell you from my worksheet, is the much smaller portion of it. Page 35 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And then, if you could further break it out by rank. Because we have police officers, yes, but they also have different stripes on their shoulder which means they get paid very differently. MS. SAKO: So they do get paid very differently. But there's also years of experience. So you can also have a police officer with multiple years of experience at a very high step, making more than a higher-ranking official. I mean, just to clarify that, it's not only the stripes. But that definitely impacts it. So we have people of all levels. I am not aware of how many at each level we had up there, but there's definitely all pay grades up there. MS. LEE LOY: And then I know there was a period of time where they had no day off. MS. SAKO: Yes. MS. LEE LOY: And so if you could help Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and show what happens after not having a day off after five days, after seven days, and so on, and so on. MS. SAKO: Yeah, and that's the part of the contract I'm not as familiar with. But yes, there are different provisions when you don't have any days off that fall into place, as well, and that would not be reflected in this one day because it was the first day. MS. LEE LOY: And then you mention the meals. Because I know meals were being provided, but I'm wondering if they also were getting like a meal supplement within their pay. I'm not sure. MS. SAKO: Certain contracts, and this is where we have however many Bargaining Units, I believe only one you get paid even if we provide you a meal; and the rest are, if we provide you a meal, we don't also pay you. MS. LEE LOY: And then I also know there was travel -time afforded to them because they would start the shift, but they were also given time to travel up to the mauna. So could you also kind of further break that out as far as travel and then actual shift work and how that all? MS. SAKO: So it depends how they were assigned to work, just as people in my department. But, you know, if I have someone who needs to cover in Kona, and I ask them to be in Kona by 7:45, then yes, I have to pay their travel time, as well. I'm not thinking of any more provisions. But like I said, I didn't bring that Bargaining Unit contract with me. MS. LEE LOY: And then like Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder mentioned, there was Police, there was Fire. I think DPW (Department of Public Works) was also up Page 36 FC -16 August 6, 2019 there doing some of the work, so it would be really interesting to see not just Police itself, but all the different agencies. MS. SAKO: Yeah, and Civil Defense. MS. LEE LOY: And Civil Defense. I think I might have covered all the other things that Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder was talking about. So with that, I'll yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else before we entertain Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder'sgo ahead, Ms. Poindexter. MS. POINDEXTER: You know, we got a letter from, well, a copy of a letter from the Office of the Mayor on Maui (see Comm. 369.7). Because I guess Council Member Keani Rawlins -Fernandez was concerned about who was paying the cost of their police officers being here. You know, one question, "Exactly how much money will our taxpayers be expected to pay for the travel expenses for Maui County police presence on Mauna Kea?" The answer was, "None. The County of Maui taxpayers will not incur any costs in relation to the travel and police presence on Mauna Kea. The County of Hawaii will be responsible for all associated costs." And then the letter— MS. SAKO: My, how rumors get started. MS. POINDEXTER: Yes. So it's on the letterhead. It's actually an official Mayor's letter. And the Mayor's letter is saying, "Dear Chair Rawlins -Fernandez: This letter is in response to the letter sent to Mayor Victorino, and copied to Chief Faaumu, on July 17, 2019." So what this is, the Mayor is responding to her with the MS. SAKO: Yes, I'm sure their Mayor is correct. The County of Maui will not be paying it, but it's also not County of Hawaii. I believe it's the State of Hawaii. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. MS. SAKO: Just as we expect our costs to be reimbursed by the State of Hawaii, as well. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. I just—yeah, so now you have a copy of that letter. MS. SAKO: Yes, thank you. This is good to know; why people think the things they do. Okay. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. MS. SAKO: I've gotten no bills from Maui, just to be clear. Page 37 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, thank you. I'll yield at this time. CHR. DAVID: Anyone else? MS. SAKO: And just so you know, some of the costs will not appear in our costs report because I believe the State has picked up some costs directly. CHR. DAVID: Okay. Just a couple of questions, and maybe you don't have the answers right now, and I don't expect you to. But the officers that were deployed to the mauna, were they taken from active duty list or were they on their days off? MS. SAKO: No, I believe we still had officers covering regular shifts. CHR. DAVID: Regular shifts, okay. MS. SAKO: So yes, it was—or they did it with a 12 -hour shift. So your eight hours, covering your regular, and then four hours overtime. CHR. DAVID: I see. Okay, awesome. Now the other costs, I'm not sure who was doing this. But there were like heavy equipment to place those concrete. Are those all State expenses? MS. SAKO: I know State has incurred some costs. I'm not specific about the barriers, but State has provided some things like traffic signals and things like that. CHR. DAVID: Okay. And then because the concrete yeah, those concrete barriers and theI guess the heavy equipment to place them, were those done by our County departments? How will that— MS. SAKO: I would have to go double-check if it was State DOT (Department of Transportation) or County. CHR. DAVID: Yeah. MS. SAKO: Yeah, okay. CHR. DAVID: And then transportation for off -island, did you say was ours? MS. SAKO: No. CHR. DAVID: The airfare? MS. SAKO: No, we have not paid for any off -island officers to come. Page 38 FC -16 August 6, 2019 CHR. DAVID: Okay. MS. SAKO: I believe the State is paying for that. CHR. DAVID: Alright. That's the only other costs, I think, that I was thinking that maybe it wouldn't be part of the Police Department but another department within our County. Just a general question. So when we have arrangements such as this, do we have like a—not a contract, but do we have like a written understanding or written agreement with the State? MS. SAKO: There is a verbal right now, and the written is being worked on and will come before Council soon. CHR. DAVID: Okay, great. And that's where all of our involvement in the—okay, perfect. Well, that's all I have. Mr. Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. I guess I can you help you out on the questions about the barriers. CHR. DAVID: Okay. MR. RICHARDS: I know that was State because that was DOT; and I know it was State DOT because they had big State DOT stickers— MS. SAKO: Good job. MR. RICHARDS: on the side of the truck and on the big heavy equipment moving the stuff. So, I know that was DOT. MS. SAKO: Thank you. I'm circling State. I might cross that off. MR. RICHARDS: Scratch that one. CHR. DAVID: Okay. MR. RICHARDS: I yield. That's what happens when you drive Hilo almost every day. CHR. DAVID: Alright, thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Poindexter. MS. POINDEXTER: And, Deanna, if you could go to page two of this letter. I just want to point this out. You may want to get more clarification on what is true and what is not true. Because it says, "The Chief of Police for the County of Hawaii requested assistance from our Department to assist with public safety and Page 39 FC -16 August 6, 2019 welfare. No funds were transferred. By correspondence dated June 25, 2019, the County of Hawaii has agreed to be responsible for all costs associated with having MPD personnel assist in maintaining public safety and welfare." (See Comm. 369.7) MS. SAKO: I will go look for that correspondence. I'm not aware of that. MS. POINDEXTER: Yes. So all I'm saying is sometimes if you say rumors get started, but sometimes there some truth somewhere. I don't know. MS. SAKO: It may have been things evolved after that, because I believe those costs are going to be picked up by the State, but in the early planning stages, yes. I'm not sure what was agreed to. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. But thank you. Okay, I'll yield at this time. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Anyone else before I go to Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder? Go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. So again, I know we had training gear, riding gear, porta-potties, and spike stripes. We had vans that came over. We had other agencies sending police over. I know I heard the AG (Attorney General) in the first press conference say that our County will run point on this operation. And there never was a guarantee for me that they would pick up the bill; they've said that they may. I haven't heard it said clearly or haven't seen it in writing that they will be picking up the bill, so it worries that we're expending. I want to track everything. Because if they do decide to pick up the bill, then wonderful. MS. SAKO: Yes, and as I said MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If they don't, then we're left footing the bill for that project. I mean, again, either way it's still us. Whether it's the State's tax or it's the County's tax, we're paying for it. MS. SAKO: So I believe there are communications not involving me, but I am aware that there have been agreements that they would pay, not just for Police but for all of other costs. And so Corp. Counsel is working on finalizing the agreement with the State, and as we said, it will come before the Council. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. My second concern is that as we're pulling police from every department—I think they focused on three departments I think to pull from—to send to the mountain, I wanted to maintain that we're getting a good level of service for our district, and that we're not seeing less officers. I've heard that we're not. Page 40 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MS. SAKO: We're not. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But are we exhausting the officers that way and burning them out, and then filling in the best that we can and maintaining the right numbers? But, you know, are we doing our officers justice, too? That's another part of this. That's why I was hoping to get the officer. You know, I had the Assistant Chief, who was outside earlier, but they're not here to answer those questions. So we may have to wait until next time. Yeah, so we're not talking about State here. I appreciate what Valerie brought forward because that really, to me, was scary. MS. SAKO: Very eye-opening. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, a little scary, if you will, that the County of Hawaii will be picking up all the costs for all the—at least for the Maui officers coming to us, and the vans and the shipments of—and the people. So being that we don't have all the information yet, and we have a nice start, I do need to say that we've spent $258,000, at least what we've tracked so far. We may be missing some numbers there. We have three dumps on the island, landfills that have been closed. We had a talk today about having lifeguards at our pools, and not being able to afford lifeguards or get them in time, or whatever the problem was. We're trying to figure out how to build out into Pahoa and fix things that are broken, and I know that's supposed to be like the Recovery Funds. But I can see that we have all these needs. We have roadsI mean, you go down the list, and yet we've chosen to spend just in 15 days, we've spent $260,000 to provide police presence on the mountain. Not just police, but labor in general labor and manpower on the mountain. I'm just having an issue with the decisions that we're making as a County. And again, this is not you, this is not Steve, this is more to make people aware of what we're doing and to keep track of what decisions our admires. are making, and the priorities that we're choosing to implement. We have a long list of priorities, and we can't get to projects that want to get to. I would like to ask if we can postpone this, or recess this until the MS. POINDEXTER: I would support a recess because it's a continuation. You know, some of the people that had testified weren't able to stay and they already testified. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I want to postpone it until the next meeting that we have coming, or recess. I'm not sure what the right verbiage is. Page 41 FC -16 August 6, 2019 MS. POINDEXTER: Madam Chair? CHR. DAVID: Yes, Ms. Poindexter? MS. POINDEXTER: I would support a recess, and the reason for that is a lot of people had testified already. They wouldn't need to come and retestify. But they already testified and left and was not able to stay for this discussion. I would want to just recess it, so we could come right back into discussion where we left off. CHR. DAVID: Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I actually like that idea. I think the missing piece is our Police Department, right? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And some big numbers too. MS. LEE LOY: And some big numbers. So I'd like to recess it. Pick up the conversation, keeps everything in context. I would support a recess at this time. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So if I can then? CHR. DAVID: Okay, you want to recess this to our next meeting in? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Which is the 20th in Kona. CHR. DAVID: Okay, if that's okay with everyone, then I will be taking this recess on Communication 369 to our August 20th meeting. Alright, we're recessing to August 20th. Alright, we're in recess. Recess: At 7:02 p.m., the Chair called for a recess until August 20, 2019. Page 42 FC -16 August 20, 2019 Reconvene: The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was reconvened in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, at 4:35 p.m., on August 20, 2019, by Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair Present: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair Ms. Karen Eoff, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Mr. Matt Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member CHR. DAVID: I'm taking the Committee on Finance out of recess, which was recessed on August 20'h. We are at the West Hawaii Civic Center, and it is now 4:35 p.m. I thank everybody for their patience. Right now, we will continue with discussion on the agenda item. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Maile. CHR. DAVID: You're welcome. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, Deanna, it is time. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako and Police Chief Paul Ferreira came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: Good afternoon. Deanna Sako, Director of Finance. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Hi, Deanna, thank you for being here and thank you for staying late. And for everybody else in Hilo who's there, thank you for waiting as well. I can't see you, but thank you. CHIEF FERREIRA: Good afternoon. Paul Ferreira, Police Chief, also at the table. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chief. Okay, thank you very much, Deanna. I got Communication 369.4. I appreciate these numbers, and we actually see it as visual. I was expecting a bump from our $268,000 that we had last meeting, but here we are now at $3.2 million. That is a big number, Deanna. Page 43 FC -16 August 20, 2019 MS. SAKO: So last time that $258,000 was basically just for one day, and so now you have—this is cumulative, and the payroll is through July 31 s ; the days worked through July 31 ", and the other costs are through yesterday. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow. So being that we still have some agencies up on the mountain, these costs are going to go up again since we're not seeing overtime cost from 7/31 to present, correct? MS. SAKO: August lst to present, correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, that's good—so we're going to have another one—not good, but we're going to see another jump. Did we find out whether Maui is going to be billing us for their overtime? MS. SAKO: No, they're going to be billing AG's (Attorney General) office directly, is my understanding. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so we don't have to worry about their cost. As I've heard it a couple of different ways, is that we will be incurring their cost if the Attorney General's office is unable to pay or not going to pay, so I'm just wanting to clarify that. Because if we're catching it, then we've got to be billing AG. I don't agree with it either way, but that's how it is. Okay, so we've got the Chief at the table. Chief, can you please tell me what districts are these officers coming from? I'm looking at a level of service, and I wanted to make sure that, one, we're not overworking our guys; and two, that the rest of the districts that they're being pulled from are still getting the same level of service that they should be getting. CHIEF FERREIRA: The reason you're seeing the high number MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I did reach out to my own captain in Pahoa, and he was unable to answer the question. He said I needed to talk to you or your office. CHIEF FERREIRA: Okay. The reason you're seeing the big numbers is probably the onset from the 17' we went into 12 -hour shifts island -wide; that is to ensure that there was adequate coverage island -wide while we still had a contingency of officers up on the mountain to be prepared to escort or provide support with the State law enforcement agencies in getting the equipment up to the mountain. In actuality, when we put the entire districts on 12 -hour shifts, we actually increased the staffing out in the field. Now, as far as tasking officers or burdening officers with extra duties, unfortunately it comes with the territory. Whenever we have a natural disaster, whenever we have any kind of emergency, it comes with the job that you're Page 44 FC -16 August 20, 2019 going to work extra hours. Fire Department sees it, Public Works sees it, we all see it. We're very cognizant of that. You're going to see the numbers drop after August I". It's not going to be as high as it is now, and the reason for that is as of July 28, we reverted all the districts back to 8 -hour shifts, normal operating shifts, and the contingency of the mountain was reduced drastically. That's what we're operating with now. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And what are the duties of our officers who are up on the mountain right now? CHIEF FERREIRA: Right now, because of the increased presence up there with vehicles, protestors, protectors, visitors, all of those issues, we've actually tasked those officers with doing traffic enforcement from the entire route of the Daniel K. Inouye Highway, from the 190 boundary on the South Kohala side to the Kaumana City boundary on the Hilo side. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So how many officers are up there right now? CHIEF FERREIRA: In excess of 20, 25. I'm not going to give exact numbers on tactickly what officers are available. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So as far as level of service, you're still maintaining our current numbers in every district around the island, is that correct? CHIEF FERREIRA: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I worry about this because we just had to deal with Officer Bronson Kaliloa's passing and his wedding anniversary CHIEF FERREIRA: Believe me, nobody feels that more than I do. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I know. I didn't like it, and I still don't like it, and I just want to make sure that nothing like that ever happens again. don't want to see our officers get to that point where they're overworked, overstressed, and then we have something like that again. That's where I'm coming from with this. Deanna, can you please tell me, do you know what account the funds are coming from, to us? MS. SAKO: When you say, "Coming from to us," I just know the AG's office has agreed to pay us. I don't know where in the State budget that is. But we have not come to end to amend the budget yet, on our side. When we start to get the funds and have the agreement in place, we will come forward with that. Page 45 FC -16 August 20, 2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So would that funding have had to have been appropriated last fiscal year, or did it happen this fiscal year? MS. SAKO: This fiscal year. All of the costs have been in the current fiscal year. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So this fiscal year, the legislation at the State level appropriated funds for the project? MS. SAKO: I wouldn't say like for the project. I mean, like every department in the State, the AG's office has a budget, and I don't know if they specifically planned for this or not. But they are using their budgeted funds to help reimburse us, is my understanding. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just from gaging how we run our budget, we always make sure we have the funds in the right place going into the year. So I'm guessing that there had to be some thought process into what we would be spending, and then creating an account. So you don't know what that account came from or when it was appropriated? MS. SAKO: No. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Or we do? MS. SAKO: No, I have no idea what account they're going to be using to reimburse us. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So we've got Hawaii County at $3.2 million, Oahu came in at $162,000, Maui County at $100,000. These are just our rough numbers that we're running with. So we are close to $3.5 million to fund TMT (Thirty Meter Telescope) on a County level. I mean, although the State did close Mauna Kea Access Road July 14th, July 10th actually, preemptively of any project happening, anything happening, due to the large equipment going up Mauna Kea Access Road, we have spent $3.5 million in providing security on the mountain. That's what I was after, and that's why I wanted to know what we were spending. So has there been any movement by the AG's office to start refunding us for any of this? MS. SAKO: We're in the process of submitting the bills since this last payroll was generated, so I don't believe we received anything yet. But we should have the bills out to them sometimes this week. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow. And then again, we've only tracked since July 1st really, is that correct? Page 46 FC -16 August 20, 2019 MS. SAKO: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So anything that happened in 2018 fiscal year wouldn't have been accounted for? MS. SAKO: If there was time, you know, or anything, yes, we did not account for that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's too bad, it would have been nice to get reimbursed for everything that happened. I would have liked for that to have been looked at. Is there any way to go back and take a look at what could have been spent? MS. SAKO: The departments usually keep timesheets. We can check if there were costs. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Didn't we talk about that last time? MS. SAKO: Yes, and I think I forgot to ask. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ah, thank you, Deanna. Well, if you could, I think it would be in our County's best interest to know everything that we spent so we can get reimbursed for all of it. Unless that's coming out from our pocket, but as a taxpayer, both State and County, I'm not happy about having to spend any money on this at all. Okay, Deanna, I really appreciate you getting these numbers for me. Chief, I appreciate what you're doing. I know that this may not be the first choice for having our officers up on the mountain, and I know that it's notI need to clarify for the public because it's not their fault for being there. It's their job, and it is their job duty. But I still feel badly for having our officers up there and having to be in the position that they are. CHIEF FERREIRA: Thank you, sir. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you. I just needed to say that. I appreciate everyone. I know Civil Defense, Fire, Parks and Recreation, Police, Public Works, and these are the departments that Deanna has been tracking for us. I know this was not your call to be up there, but you're doing what you were told. But, we have to track these funds. One, because we're supposed to get reimbursed; and two, because it's important just so taxpayers know what's going on. CHIEF FERREIRA: But I don't have a problem with tracking the funds. I would like the funds back more than anyone else. Page 47 FC -16 August 20, 2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I mean, I'd like to see us spend $3.5 million towards projects in our County. You know, it's $3.2 million in our County that would directly benefit us as County residents. Whether it's streets, parks, pools, you know, you name it. More police officers, yeah, that's where I'd like to see these funds going. Not towards a very divisive project, okay. Deanna, I thank you very much. I may ask again to recess this meeting and just keep this going so we can continue to see this evolution of expenses grow, and then also track when we start to get reimbursed by the State, and where it comes from. But for now I'm going to yield. I do appreciate everyone who's helped so far. And thank you for waiting until the end of the day, as well. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Poindexter, go ahead. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, I see that under Public Works, under other cost there, is zero. But I noticed, you know, there are signs on the road now, a lot of signs, new signs. Does that come out of our Public Works Department? MS. SAKO: I'm not sure if it was State or our County Public Works that put it up. I do know that we are incurring costs. But this includes what's been paid, I can only pick up what's been posted. So their cost will probably continue to you know, there will be other costs in the future report. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, so it's possible that our Public Works was involved with putting the signs up, or was it the State workers? MS. SAKO: I didn't specifically ask them. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, because now when you know, Chief, with no disrespect, but the traffic enforcement, I think you know, when we look at the signs, it says, "No standing, no stopping." I mean, it has a whole list of things on there. It's like we're creating these things to cause more work for the officers up there to create enforcement. CHIEF FERREIRA: Okay, the enforcement that I spoke of has nothing to do with the signs that were posted, I believe, yesterday. Those are signs that were erected by the State. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so who's enforcing the signs? CHIEF FERREIRA: As far as the—DOT (Department of Transportation) is the one that erected those signs yesterday. Page 48 FC -16 August 20, 2019 MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. So our police officers are not enforcing those signs? CHIEF FERREIRA: Not at this point. MS. POINDEXTER: So if they see somebody standing CHIEF FERREIRA: The enforcement that we've been doing is what we normally enforce on any given street in the County: speeding, reckless driving. And the whole reason for it is an increased presence, police presence, in that area because of the amount of people that are there. There were two bad accidents that occurred last month, towards the ending part of the month. One involved one of the protectors going up to work or going up there in the morning, who ran off the road. Another one involved a vehicle that was stolen from Kona, coming from the Kona side, they ran off the road. So recognizing that this is a danger, we increased our presence. Like anyone knows, if you put a blue light out there, you put them on the street, people are going to start slowing down, people are going to recognize what's going on. MS. POINDEXTER: Right. Okay, good to hear that they're not just putting signs up there for you guys to start enforcing that and causing moreI don't know what's the reason for that; you know, the whole no standing, no stopping. CHIEF FERREIRA: The enforcement we're doing is not targeting any one group. Again, it's running the gamut from Highway 190 all the way to the Kaumana City junction. And I know there's social media that's out there that's portraying the officers, as saying they're targeting people with Hawaiian flags. That is totally not true. If that was to happen, I'd be targeting—somebody would be targeting one of my daughters. She's running around with one flag. So, that is not going to happen. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, I just wanted to make sure. Because I've been up there, and I was very, very pleased about the law and order that they themselves, you know, keep themselves in -check with. You know, they have—they call it "kapu aloha," and I have a great respect for that. While I don't agree that we should be all full -force up there with the police force because I think—like I said, they're very organized. I just was bothered by, you know, adding those signs up there and having more officers up there to enforce. My concern was we're putting things there to enforce more you know, which is a little awkward becauseI don't know what the State is trying to prove with that because even when I went up there, they were so far off the road. But to put no standing and no stopping was kind of—like ridiculous. Because if my car broke down over there and I have to Page 49 FC -16 August 20, 2019 stand on the road, I mean—or stop, you knowI don't know, it just bothered me that we're like creating this abuse of power or something by those signs. I'm just saying how I feel about it. So, I'm glad to hear that you're not sending your officers up there to enforce those signs because I think those signs are ridiculous. But anyway, that's just my opinion. I'll yield at this time, Madam Chair. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. CHR. DAVID: You're welcome. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: My heart skipped several beats when I saw $3.2 million. I think back to budget time when I had to fight for pennies compared to this, to stand up a whistle blower program that wasn't even funded for a full year. Wow, okay. Deanna, is it possible to get a more detailed breakdown of the cost as well as OT (Over Time) and fringes, including timeline for when these expenditures were made? I mean, I like this overview, it's great at first glance. But I think the devil is in the details, and I think I'd like to see more details. MS. SAKO: The detailed report is not real informative, and so it does list, you know, who and how many hours and whatnot. But on the invoices and such, I can try and get you something a little more detailed and try and run it a different way, but the standard reports we have are a little clunky. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, maybe I can see what you have prior to and provide input in terms of what we'd like to see. So is the State going to cover all costs or just the overtime? MS. SAKO: My understanding is all costs, not just overtime, for Police and Fire. I'm not sure about the other departments. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And Fire's numbers are much lower than Police. It's my understanding that they don't have a presence. Do they continue to have a presence on the mauna? MS. SAKO: Not that I'm aware of. I believe not since August lst MS. KIERKIEWICZ: They've pulled back? MS. SAKO: MmOhmm. Page 50 FC -16 August 20, 2019 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Parks and Recreation, what is that other cost? MS. SAKO: I don't have it with me, but I think there were just some supplies that they incurred, you know, early on. I think that's— MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So I'm concerned about impact to one of our facilities there, the Gilbert Kahele Park. MS. SAKO: They are concerned, as well. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's very near the epicenter of the protest, and so I'm wondering about impact to that facility since we've had a presence on the mauna. And if possible, I'd like to see if we have been ordering more water to be hauled up there, if we've been pumping out gray water more frequently. I'd just like to see if we have invested a bit more in ongoing maintenance in operations of that public space, considering how close in proximity it is to the Pu`uhonua. MS. SAKO: Yeah, I know they've had to pump more often, however I don't think those bills have hit our financials yet, so it's not reflected on the report. So when they pay it, then it will be reflected. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. And I did make a note here, Matt, at our last Puna Neighborhood Watch meeting Captain Briski was there, and he said that they still had the same number of officers on patrol, and that was huge relief to all of us. However, they were working like 12 -hour shifts, and that concerns me because of how much our officers had to go through during the eruption, right? Exactly, they were going through a lot of stress and being overworked, so I wanted to make sure that they had enough time off for that mental health check day, right? Where we just have time to ourselves and our families, and just can take care of life in general. AppreciateI mean, no matter what your position is on that project, I just appreciate everybody's presence and attention on this. Thank you, Deanna. I'm going to follow up on that more detailed report because I think this body would be interested in those details. Chair, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Anyone else? Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Hi. Thanks, Chair. Deanna, I just need a little bit more clarity. Because I'm looking at your notes; so other costs include those that were paid through the 19'h? MS. SAKO: Yes. Page 51 FC -16 August 20, 2019 MS. LEE LOY: So that number, $33,000, how many days is that in total? MS. SAKO: We started tracking, roughly the beginning of July. I think July 15'h was when most costs started being entered. And again, it's only whatever's been paid, so, you know, departments may be incurring costs but haven't paid the invoices yet. Then it wouldn't be recorded here. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. So that other cost is about 30 days? MS. SAKO: Roughly, yes. MS. LEE LOY: Roughly, okay. So then, we get to the overtime and fringe; and it says overtime (OT) and fringes are cumulative through 7/31. So is that also 30 days, or is that just? MS. SAKO: No, that's just from the 15'h to the 31". MS. LEE LOY: Okay. MS. SAKO: Because I think I explained last time that our payroll for like overtime—so when you get your paycheck, your current amount is current but your overtime is one pay period later. So the August 15'h check that everyone just got paid, included their regular salary for August I" to August 15'h but overtime for July 16'h through July 31 ". MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I think—like Ms. Kierkiewicz, I'm going to say this number is eye-popping, to borrow from our Chair, I think what I'm a little concerned about is we have other costs from one period to one period, but we have OT and fringe from a separate portion of that. MS. SAKO: Right, it comes out of two pieces of our financial system. So the accounts payable is paid weekly but the payroll is only paid twice a month. So I can't give numbers that we don't have yet. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Deanna. And partly because just as this information came out, I started to get text messages. I've gotten numbers where it was $100,000 per day, $4,000 per hour. I don't want to misrepresent the information that if people are trying to break it down, you know, we have to have consistent timelines with consistent days. I just wanted to try and bring some clarity to that. Yeah, I would appreciate just more follow-up information. Like you said, your system only tracks for overtime, you know, two times a month. You know, going forward, if we could get a complete picture of what it cost. MS. SAKO: Last time, the number was $258,000, and basically people had only been up there for a day, and of that, $225,000 was overtime. And so now Page 52 FC -16 August 20, 2019 the numbers are for just the labor portion, I believe that is 17 days total. So it's a little less than maybe what we were expecting. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I just—you know, if we are going to be reimbursed, I want to make sure we capture every single dollar. MS. SAKO: Oh believe me, we have captured every single dollar, yes. MS. LEE LOY: And then even, as Ms. Kierkiewicz mentioned, some of the other costs, you know, water or just extra meals or whatever it is, I want to make sure we capture it and get it all back because our community, our County, deserves, you know, for this money to be used in to the community rather than just paying bills. So, Chair, with that, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? Mr. Chung, you're in Hilo, do you have anything? No? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Chief, I've got to ask, so with those new signs that says no standing, stopping, parking, unloading or loading, and with no state entity to enforce that. Is that going to fall on our Police Department to enforce people stopping, standing, parking, loading or unloading, on side of the State highway? CHIEF FERREIRA: The straight answer would be yes, it would fall upon us. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then, what would that be? Sorry, like is that, that's just a straight ticket, $100, ? What's the deal? Moving violation? CHIEF FERREIRA: Been awhile since I've issued citations, so I don't know, actually, the fines on parking. But it's not a moving violation. With any kind of signage that just props up out of nowhere, there would need to be an educational portion. Where you would be warning people; telling them, "Okay, from this point forward, no parking or no stopping on this roadway." Now that would exclude someone whose vehicle breaks down. Like any given highway, if your vehicle breaks down MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I lost you, sir. Can you move closer to the mic? CHIEF FERREIRA: As far as the signage that is out there, there would be an educational portion where the public would need to be told, "Okay, from this point forward, no parking in this area, no stopping in this area." When they say no standing, that means a vehicle standing, not someone standing on the roadway. After that educational portion, then you would end up with having citations being issued. These would be parking citations. These are not moving Page 53 FC -16 August 20, 2019 violations. These would all carry a fine. Like I said, I'm not really sure what the fines are at this point. I haven't issued a citation in several years. Now as parking far off of the shoulder, away from the signs, there is—like if you have parking on Highway 130, say, where you have a shoulder and then you have private property or State property, grassy area on the side; if the vehicle is off of the pavement, that is not an enforceable parking area. Same thing would hold true for the Saddle Road. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So if they go pass the signs—what is the shoulder, 10 feet off of the white line? CHIEF FERREIRA: Off of the top of my head, I wouldn't be able to tell you what curb pledge is over there. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So if they can get their car off of that 10 -foot shoulder, 12 -foot shoulder, they would no longer be in a finable area? CHIEF FERREIRA: That would be my understanding of what the law reads. If you look at Kawili Street, there's no parking and there's that paved shoulder on Kawili Street right in front of the college. People would park in the grassy area to get away from the—having to be cited on the pavement. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, I appreciate that. And this really just comes back to what we're going to be spending, what we're looking at in the long term, here as we start to have to enforce different things, and where people can and cannot be, and what our cost to the County is going to be. I know there might be some questions as to if we're still on track or not, but I think that we are. Sorry, one more question. I forgot sorry. Okay, I yield. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Anyone else have questions? If not, then I would like toI just have a few questions. I'm not sure if this is for Deanna or for Chief. Thank you, Chief for being here. You know, we received this letter, Communication 369.2 from the Office of the Governor, basically stating that they will be—has agreed to reimburse HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) for overtime cost and also for associated cost to deploy. Is there an agreement, a written agreement with the State that memorializes what we are going to get reimbursed for and what the understanding is with this arrangement aside from this letter? MS. SAKO: There are multiple emails that have gone back and forth between the County Page 54 FC -16 August 20, 2019 CHR. DAVID: Sorry, Deanna, I can't hear—we can't really hear too much. MS. SAKO: Sorry. There have been several emails that have gone back and forth between the County and the AG's office, and I believe they're in the process of memorializing that into an agreement. CHR. DAVID: Great. That was my question. And that will basically itemize the responsibilities of both the State and the County in this situation I would imagine? MS. SAKO: Yes. I am not the one working on it. But yes, probably. CHR. DAVID: Right. Okay, so the Police Department would not have a separate for cost regarding this. It would be all inclusive regarding coverage for expenses with the County as a whole? CHIEF FERREIRA: Yes, that's correct. CHR. DAVID: Okay thank you, Chief. Then my other question is for the cost of the regular level of service, officers in the various districts that are now doing 12 -hour shifts, that entails overtime, those 12 -hour shifts? MR. FERRIERA: That cost has also been incorporated into the $3.2 million. CHR. DAVID: I see. So those overtime costs for the district officers that have to now work overtime is being added is included in the $3.2 million number that we have? MS. FERREIRA: Yes, that was part of the agreements that we had, that they would cover all costs associated with us deploying offices to the mountain. For us to deploy that many officers to the mountain and to maintain our services island -wide, we needed to ensure that we had officers out in the field. Therefore, they would have to be reimbursed at the overtime cost. CHR. DAVID: I see. And then there was this in the Governor's letter, it says that the State will "abide by this letter agreement to support HPD's enforcement efforts so long as HPD remains committed to maintaining control of the pertinent roadways." What does that mean? CHIEF FERREIRA: I would take it to mean that we need to maintain what we currently are doing and committed to maintaining law and order up on the mountain when necessary. And then we cannot just say, "Okay, we're going to put up our hands and we're going to turn a blind -eye." Page 55 FC -16 August 20, 2019 CHR. DAVID: Okay. Alright, I'm just looking at this and seeing—okay, so there's reallyI'm just concerned that "So long as ... remains committed." What does that mean? I'm sorry to ask you that question. I don't have an answer. I'm just curious about that statement in this letter. CHIEF FERREIRA: No, no, it's a fair question. Again, it is a unified command up on the mountain. It's not only the Hawaii County Police that's up there. We have the State's Sheriff's Office. We have the Department of Land and Natural Resources, or DOCARE (Division of Conservation and Resources Enforcement), their enforcement entity. You also have investigators from an Attorney General's office. CHR. DAVID: I see, okay. Okay, that's all the questions I have regarding costs. And I believe everyone has spoken already. I want to thank Director Sako, thank you for being here and for the information. Chief, thank you very for your patience and waiting for this matter to come back online. CHIEF FERREIRA: Oh, thank you. CHR. DAVID: With that, may I please have—we're recessing this meeting again? MR. HENRICKS: You're looking at me. I guessI can see pragmatism of doing so. But at some point—you know, for instance, we brought up issues today that are recent, yeah, about signage and what that means and how County agencies respond to such signage. So if we keep recessing and talking about new information, new statistics— CHR. DAVID: I see. MR. HENRICKS: new figures, new events, maybe that's not the best route to then not allow for public participation in those discussions, yeah? CHR. DAVID: Right. MR. HENRICKS: As pragmatic and as appreciated as that process is, I get it. CHR. DAVID: So because there have been questions asked of the Director and Chief that we want follow-up on, then I believe we should postpone. And, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I'm going to look to you for that. MR. HERICKS: It's probably be best to adjourn this meeting. There may be some other issues, where if a meeting remains kind of open forever. There might be other technical things we're not considering. MS. LEE LOY: Chair, if I might? Page 56 FC -16 August 20, 2019 CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: In the spirit of the Sunshine Law, my concern is the agenda item when it was first brought up talked about a specific conversation, and since new information has been brought forward, I would rather see an item on the agenda that lends itself to the public that talks about all these new things. I mean, in the spirit of the Sunshine Law I don't want to short circuit anybody's opportunity to provide comment and input. That's how I feel. So I wouldn't support a postponement. I would actually look at closing file. CHR. DAVID: Just voting on this to close file? MS. LEE LOY: Right. And then even if we want to move something else forward, to begin to articulate the boundary lines of what will be discussed. CHR. DAVID: Then in a future communication we can identify different issues that we would like clarification, and then would allow the public to testify and weigh in on that one. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: My only issue with that would be that we've already missed our deadline, so we will have a month before we get anything back on the agenda, unless we're allowed a breach by the Chair. Now, I've got to ask the Chair. CHR. DAVID: The Council Chair. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Chair. So that would be only issue, we'll have a one-month gap between knowing what's happening. MS. LEE LOY: But that one monthsorry, Chair—that one-month gap would allow Deanna to collectively get all the information and put it in context with the right amount of days, and maybe even capture some of the extenuating costs, like the water, what it's costing us at the park, and we'd actually have a more holistic picture. I see the pros and cons of it. Because I am a little concerned that we have other costs from one period to another period—from one period to one period, and overtime and fringe from one period to—that doesn't match up. And so we a total but we're not capturing the same amount of days. MS. POINDEXTER: Chair? CHR. DAVID: Do you yield, Ms. Lee Loy? Ms. Poindexter, go ahead. MS. POINDEXTER: Isn't the title broad enough though, Request for finance report of County expenses relating to Mauna Kea? Page 57 FC -16 August 20, 2019 MR. HENRICKS: It is. But again, if the objective is to keep getting new information for the Committee to discuss—and again, part of that included events today that can be arguable as whether or not it's related to expenses, about signage and what that means. I think it's inevitable that those things are going to come up in the course of conversation with nine Committee members. It's probably not in the best interest to continue this discussion as if we're still in the same meeting. We're still back on the 20'h of July or wherever we were when we discussed this. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, but if we postpone it, then it's because he's not recessing it to that, but we're just postponing it to a new meeting date. MR. HENRICKS: That's fine. MS. POINDEXTER: And that would be okay because then it's still "requests finance report of County expenses." With signs, with questions about that, which turns into police, you know, enforcement, which is County cost again, and you know how much work is that entailing. So Request for finance report of County expenses relating to Mauna Kea, it encompasses everything. And I think if we do a postponement, it's not recessing it and keeping that meeting from July keep coming you know, a July meeting, but we're getting a new meeting on the postponement. I mean, we look at MR. HENRICKS: As long as you're—again if you're comfortable with it. It says the request was for "a report." MS. POINDEXTER: Request finance report of County's expenses. MR. HENRICKS: Right. I mean, it's semantics. I understand what you're saying. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. MR. HENRICKS: I totally get it. And it's just if you guys were comfortable with that level of public notice, as what the expectations are MS. POINDEXTER: Because they'll get to come and testify again. Listen to what—yeah, the public will come and testify if we do a postponement. I'd support a postponement. CHR. DAVID: Okay. And to be clear then, the postponement would allow for public testimony. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair? Page 58 FC -16 August 20, 2019 CHR. DAVID: Okay, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I'm sorry, but we have our Corporation Counsel here. I'd like to weigh in, just so that we're on the clear on what we should be doing. I support having this conversation every Council meeting, but I want to make sure we're doing it with the right vehicle. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, that's right. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KAMELAMELA: Joseph Kamelamela, Corp. Counsel. Good afternoon, Chair and members of the County Council. I like the idea of a postponement is better only because if we—like if we do another recess, we can have the public weigh in, so that's a major concern I had, because now you're getting more information, and the public didn't get to chime in at all. I don't think there's going to be a Sunshine Law violation if there's a postponement because it's still on the calendar, you know, giving notice to everybody. So I prefer a postponement rather than a recess again. Thank you. MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman? CHR. DAVID: Alright, Chair Chung. Oh, I'm sorry, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Are you yielding? Okay, thank you. Chair Chung, go ahead. MR. CHUNG: Right. Well, Joe only explored two options, but there's actually three. MR. KAMELAMELA: You're right, there is a third. MR. CHUNG: He said there's a postponement, a recess. But the third option which Ms. Lee Loy is alluding to is that you just close file on the communication and bring something up again, which is the cleanest method. That's all I have to say. CHR. DAVID: Are you yielding, Chair Chung? MR. CHUNG: Yes. CHR. DAVID: Okay, thank you. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead. Motion to Postpone: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to postpone Comm. 369 to September 3, 2019. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter. Page 59 FC -16 August 20, 2019 CHR. DAVID: Okay, discussion on the postponement. Anyone? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: For your continued support. CHR. DAVID: Alright, Mr. Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: I think Chair Chung pointed it out. And the reason that we had a recess was so we can come back and get an articulation of some added question. Got that done. Going forward, in the spirit of Sunshine and adhering to the Sunshine, as the Chair pointed out, the cleanest thing is to actually close it and then bring forth a new communication. And I appreciate what Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder was saying, that we missed the window for getting it on the next agenda. But I think that is the cleaner and it's a better way to get it done. I don't disagree that we should have a continued conversation, but I want to be sure we're doing it in appropriate manner. I would prefer to just close it out and start fresh with a new communication because I think that's the more appropriate legislative way to handle this. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Anyone else? MR. CHUNG: I have a question. CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Chair Chung. MR. CHUNG: So what is the purpose of the postponement as opposed to closing file on this communication? I mean, if I could as the maker of the motion. I mean, what is the reason? I mean, if there's a good reason for a postponement, I'll certainly support it. But I just want to know in my mind what's the purpose of the postponement as opposed to closing file and bringing up a new communication? CHR. DAVID: Okay, I'll allow Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder to answer. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I would like to get it on and not have to wait for one month, because there will be a wait -period to get on the next meeting. I would also like to have the ability to MR. CHUNG: Will there be a new—I mean, will there be a one-month wait? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We already missed the deadline for the next meeting because of the two-week window works. Page 60 FC -16 August 20, 2019 MR. CHUNG: Mr. Clerk? MR. HENRICKS: Yes, Mr. Chair? MR. CHUNG: Is that correct? I mean, we could always breach, right? MR. HENRICKS: That is an option. You're required approval of the Committee Chair as well as the Council Chair. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: In order to be efficient, not have to redo all the paperwork. This seems smoother to me. MR. CHUNG: I mean, I got no problem. Either way, you know. I mean, if that's the reason, I'll vote for the postponement. I just think it's cleaner. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I would like the public to have input too, as well. That is important. I didn't understand that by recessing, the public doesn't have the ability to come in, discuss, or weigh in, or having any opinion at all. I like having the public's opinion. MR. CHUNG: Wait, let's make sure we're on the same page here. Recess, we're not even talking about a recess. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No, no recess. But we did that this time didn't realize there was no ability to testify when you recess a meeting. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, we're just talking about closing. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So by postponing MR. CHUNG: Okay. I mean CHR. DAVID: Chair Chung, yeah, we're talking about a postponement. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I have no problem with a postponement. I don't think it's as clean though as closing file on the communication. I just wanted to state that for the record. Because I agree with Ms. Lee Loy 100 percent. But it gets us to the same point, so no problem. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Chair Chung. Well, given that Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder it's his communication, it's his issue. I will support his request for a postponement. So all those in favor of postponing Communication 369 to our September 3rd, in our Hilo Chambers, all those in favor please say "aye." Page 61 FC -16 August 20, 2019 Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Comm. 369 to September 3, 2019, to Postpone: was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali'i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, and Chair David — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Villegas — 1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: I believe that takes care of this agenda item. Perfect. Move to adjourn'? ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 5:25 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved MENT to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali'i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, and Chair David — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Villegas — I. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: We adjourned. Thank you, Council Members. Approved: Ms. Mail edeiros act , Chair Finance Committee MD/na �o-�'-iy (Date) Pagc 62