HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PC 2019/11/05 2018-2020Committee on Planning
18th Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
November 5, 2019
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Planning was called to order at
ORDER: 4:31 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz, Chair.
ROLL CALL
Present: Ms.
Ashley Kierkiewicz, Chair
Ms.
Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair
Mr.
Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms.
Maile Medeiros David, Member
Ms.
Karen Eoff, Member
Mr.
Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
Ms.
Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Mr.
Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member
Ms.
Rebecca Villegas, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward
when called by the Chair:
Richard Koval: Comm. 533, comment.
Sidney Fuke: Comm. 533, comment.
Dorotiea Morris: Comm. 533, in opposition.
Gregory Brown: Comm. 533, comment.
Alan Brockman: Comm. 533, comment.
Zendo Kern: Bill 111 (Comm. 545); comment.
Jeana Jones: Comm. 533, comment.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I will close public testimony at this time. Mr. Clerk, I
would like to take up the nominations. We have a lot of folks that are willing to
serve that have been waiting for several hours for their nomination to be heard.
So if we could start with Communication 550, please.
PC -18 November 5, 2019
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following item was taken out of order:
Comm. 550: NOMINATION OF STACEY E. AGUTAR TO THE BOARD OF APPEALS
From Mayor Harry Kim, dated October 18, 2019, submitting for the Council's
review and confirmation the above nomination.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: December 1, 2019 (Section 13-4(1),
Hawaii County Charter)
Vote on Comm. 550: Ms. Eoff moved to recommend confirmation of the
(Approved) appointment of Ms. Stacey E. Aguiar to the Board
of Appeals. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried
by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Chung — 1.
Excused: None.
Executive Assistant to the Mayor Rose Bautista provided a brief narrative
of the nominee. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
Chair Kierkiewicz informed Ms. Aguiar that she does not need to appear
before full Council for final confirmation.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Clerk, if we could move on to Communication 551,
please.
Comm. 551: NOMINATION OF MARISA R. BANKSTON TO THE KONA
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT PLAN ACTION COMMITTEE
From Mayor Harry Kim, dated October 18, 2019, submitting for the Council's
review and confirmation the above nomination.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: December 1, 2019 (Section 13-4(1),
Hawaii County Charter)
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Vote on Comm. 551
(Approved)
Comm. 552
Vote on Comm. 552
(Approved)
November 5, 2019
Ms. Eoff moved to recommend confirmation of the
appointment of Ms. Marisa R. Bankston to the Kona
Community Development Plan Action Committee.
Seconded by Ms. David and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Chung — 1.
Excused: None.
Executive Assistant to the Mayor Rose Bautista provided a brief narrative
of the nominee. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
Chair Kierkiewicz informed Ms. Bankston that she does not need to
appear before full Council for final confirmation.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Clerk, Communication 552.
NOMINATION OF ROSELYN C. MOLINA TO THE KONA COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT PLAN ACTION COMMITTEE
From Mayor Harry Kim, dated October 18, 2019, submitting for the Council's
review and confirmation the above nomination.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: December 1, 2019 (Section 13-4(1),
Hawaii County Charter)
Mr. Richards moved to recommend confirmation of the
appointment of Ms. Roselyn C. Molina to the Kona
Community Development Plan Action Committee.
Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Chung — 1.
Excused: None.
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Executive Assistant to the Mayor Rose Bautista provided a brief narrative
of the nominee. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
Chair Kierkiewicz informed Ms. Molina that she does not need to appear
before full Council for final confirmation.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Alright Mr. Clerk, Communication 553.
Comm. 553: NOMINATION OF MAX EDWARD NEWBERG TO THE LEEWARD
PLANNING COMMISSION
From Mayor Harry Kim, dated October 18, 2019, submitting for the Council's
review and confirmation the above nomination.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: December 1, 2019 (Section 13-4(1),
Hawaii County Charter)
Vote on Comm. 553: Mr. Richards moved to recommend confirmation of the
(Approved) appointment of Mr. Max Edward Newberg to the
Leeward Planning Commission. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy
and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Chung — 1.
Excused: None.
Executive Assistant to the Mayor Rose Bautista provided a brief narrative
of the nominee. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
Chair Kierkiewicz informed Mr. Newberg that he does not need to appear
before full Council for final confirmation.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you Ms. Bautista.
Recess: At 5:25 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 5:30 p.m.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Aloha. If you could take your seats, the Planning
Committee is out of recess. And just a quick announcement, if you are streaming
this meeting live, after the Planning Committee is finished, we will go back to
Ag, Water, Energy, and Environmental Management. There are a few things on
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the agenda that we want to get through this evening. So, thank you so much for
your patience. A lot of heavy, interesting discussions today, so thank you.
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Chair, if I may? Bill's been here almost all
day, and Mike came in the last couple hours. So I'm hoping to get to Bill
because he sat in the last meeting too and sat for hours. And then actually left at
the end.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: We actually talked story with him about it, and we're
going to continue to move forward with Planning and then reconvene Ag, Water.
Thank you so much for your concern.
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Bill, I tried. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Clerk, if we could move on to Bill 111, please
Bill 111: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 09-90A, WHICH RECLASSIFIED LANDS
FROM SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL — 10,000 SQUARE FEET (RS -10)
TO INDUSTRIAL — COMMERCIAL MIXED — 20,000 SQUARE FEET
(MCX-20) AT WAIAKEA HOUSELOTS, WAIAKEA, SOUTH HILO,
HAWAII, COVERED BY TAX MAP KEY: 2-2-050:043
(Applicant: Trevor R. Rodrigues) (Area: 45,800 sq. ft.)
The Windward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for
this amendment, which will allow a five-year time extension to comply with
Condition D (Time to Complete Construction) and Condition F (Future Road
Widening). The applicant is requesting to construct a veterinary clinic with 25
parking stalls, as well as two other buildings for commercial office and
warehouse space. The property is located along the north side of East Kawili
Street at the corner of Laukapu Street in the Waiakea Houselots.
Reference: Comm. 545
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz (B/R)
; and
Comm. 545.1: From Planning Director Michael Yee, dated October 11, 2019, transmitting the
draft transcript from the Windward Planning Commission's October 3, 2019,
meeting.
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend passage of Bill 111
on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Richards.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Can I have the applicant or consultant, representative
please come forward their representative please come forward, Mr. Fuke?
And while we're at it, Director Yee?
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November 5, 2019
(Note: At this time, Planning Consultant Sidney Fuke and Planning
Director Michael Yee came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MR. FUKE: Hi. Good evening. I'm here representing Dr. Trevor Rodrigues. It's
basically a time extension request. He's already got his building permit. The bank
is ready to sign his loan, except that since July 2019 was the deadline when the
building had to be completed, obviously, he needed an extension. So subject to the
Council's approval of this proposed ordinance amendment, he's going to get the
financing; get the building all up and running. So, we respectfully request your
approval of this extension request.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. And Director Yee, if you could elaborate
just a little bit, because I was going through the background information, and so
the Planning Department put forth a favorable recommendation for a time
extension and the Planning Commission had actually removed the time element
attached to that. So hoping you can dive into a little bit of the details on that. I
have a little bit of comments that I want to put forward, but I'd like to hear from
you and what your position is on that.
MR. YEE: Michael Yee, Planning Director. At the Planning Commission,
Commissioners felt like the zone change was consistent to what we want to see.
So why put on a time extension if this is what we want to have? Even if they
don't accomplish in the short term, we still want this. And so from their
perspective it wasn't necessary to put that time limit on it again.
And they clearly had questions around where were they at in the permitting
system. Did they have a contractor in there? They're ready to go. So from a
common sense standpoint, I think they felt comfortable that this was going to get
done and there wasn't a significant risk, like it wasn't going to be.
In the greater scope around when we've been struggling with time extensions and
trying to figure out the new language, I understand your kind of hesitancy around
this. But I think particularly that the commission has been very in tuned to time
extensions and what that means. And so, I don't think they frivolously put
something forward that was not consistent with what we want to see.
Again, when I'm sitting here today, I'm representing what the Planning
Commission wanted, and not necessarily my own point of view on my original
recommendation.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Anybody have questions or comments? If not, I'm
just going to continue to probe Director Yee on this one. Ms. Lee Loy.
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November 5, 2019
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Thank you, Chair. Thank you Sidney, Director,
for being here. You know, this is in my district and exactly what Director
mentioned. You know, this is the type of revitalization for the area we
wanted to see. And I really appreciate that the commission is kind of
rumbling with these time extensions, because that's always been my
concern is that we set expectations for them to get a building permit and
go through plan of approval, or get, you know, the infrastructure in when
we don't have the best permitting system or review system for them to
meet these expectations.
So I'm going to be asking the rest of my colleagues to go ahead and
support this. As Mr. Yee mentioned, you know, it's imminent.
Everything's really ready to go. And I just want to again, use this as an
example that as we set expectations and put conditions on various zoning
applications, that they have reasonable expectations, but also back to the
agencies that have to review curb, gutter, sidewalks; subdivision
applications, plan approval. That the agencies can actually meet the
timelines also. So, it's on both sides of the counter that has to work
together. Chair, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Any other questions or
comments? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's just nice to see a project that has
curbs, sidewalks, gutters included in it and then be held to that. So I
appreciate you holding to that in this document. Always good to see.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Alright, if I could just dive into it.
Oh, Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, I was just going to say, as Council Woman
Lee Loy said, this is her district, and I think as we all agree we like to
listen to the representation from that district very closely. That being said,
we are looking for the economic growth development generator type of
thing. And this is something that is part of that deal, so I'll definitely be
supporting it. Thank you, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: There's no question I support what's before us. What
bothers me a little bit was going through the transcripts of the Planning
Commission and having a commissioner say that it's been a waste of time to go
through all these time extensions.
So there have been 20 bills that have come before the Planning Committee this
year. Eleven of them, not including this one, have been a request for a time
extension. And I kind of appreciated knowing that this was coming forward,
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because what it did was it exposed me to a lot of other agencies outside of the
County that we rely on to make the process work.
Case in point, the State Historic Preservation Division (SHPD). First bill that
came before us, Ka`upulehu Development, waiting seven years to hear from them.
This is not uncommon. Had we not gotten time extensions, I never would have
known. Well maybe I would have if I worked in Planning, that there's some
severe issues.
So over the last six months, I've been working very closely with Planning and
Public Works to actually figure out ways the County can work better with SHPD.
I think these are great moments where we can stop, check our systems. And so if
going forward we're going to remove the time element from conditions, I ask you
to reconsider.
I think it makes sense for this bill that is before us, but I don't want the message
to go back to the commission that says we're setting new precedents. No time
extension parameters on anything. You know, in the past what we've discussed is
keeping time differently. So just as we Council Members have the time clock
running. We have the time clock running. We have five minutes to speak. It
stops when the person we're talking to in front of us has the floor.
So I wonder if, as applicants are moving forward meeting the various conditions
in the ordinance, that when they've submitted their part of the application, that the
time stops ticking, that it pauses while it is being reviewed by Building or SHPD.
Just trying to think of creative ways we move forward. Again, I hesitate to just
give up any sort of timing element in these permits going forward. So, just
wanted to share that.
MR. YEE: Agree with you, and I just want to remind you that we did come in
front of the Council and gave a briefing on time extension issues. We also have
presented to both Planning Commissions our work so far around revising rules
and stuff around time extensions. So, one of the great legacies I'm trying to leave
behind will be some changes around time extensions. And so, that's in the works.
It's been a little bit buried behind a few other things in Planning, but we are
working on it.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, that's great to hear. Any other questions or
comments? Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Just a short one, and I thank you, Chair, for mentioning that,
because I'm looking at Condition P which was Condition R before, and I'm happy
to know that this is just for this particular application, because if the "conditions
should not be met or substantially complied with," and you took out "in a timely
fashion," then the Director may initiate rezoning.
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So I think for this case, I'm happy that you folks are confident that we will not
have a timing issue, but I think any application really needs some reference to a
timeframe when they need to complete certain things. So, thank you for working
on that and trying to fine tune that, because I think it's really important to keep
track. Thank you, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Go ahead.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You're wanting to take the five year out, in
general?
MR. YEE: On this, yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But I mean, in general, like out of the—it's
in our Code. Isn't there a section where it says, "There will be a five-year
requirement."
MR. YEE: No.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Are you sure?
MR. YEE: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I remember reading through somewhere in
our Code and going through the bill looking at different sections in there. There
was a section requiring a five-year time limit for projects. Am I wrong?
MR. FUKE: That's usually associated with part of a zone change ordinance, but I
don't believe it's written in the Zoning Code per say. No, it's not a rule. It just
says that the ordinance and rules say that the Commission or the Council could
adopt conditions that assure performance along those lines. So, but as far as like
whether there was a three, five, or ten yearI don't believe there was any
numerical assignment.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I've got to go back and look, because I
remember seeing about a five-year—there was a very specific section that said
five years was a requirement. I've got to go back and look, and maybe it was
either in subdivisions, because when I was looking at subdivisions or roads, or it
would have been in the DPW (Department of Public Works) Section. Okay,
thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, so to be clear, what's before us, we're removing
the time element for when the conditions of this bill for ordinance will be met, but
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just for this one, okay, because my reading of the transcripts by the commission
was that they wanted to get rid of it in general.
MR. YEE: No, I don't think that was there in that conversation.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, well Mercury's in retrograde, so I would have
misinterpreted. It's been a long day guys. Thank you for humoring me. Any
other questions or comments? Thank you Mr. Fuke, Director Yee, for being here.
We have a motion on the floor. All in favor to forward Bill 111 to the Council
with a positive recommendation, please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 111: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 111 on first
(Approved) reading was carried by the following voice vote.
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Villegas — 1.
Excused: None.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Alright Mr. Clerk, back to the top of the agenda, please.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Excuse me, I'm just going to say it again,
Department of Ag was here way before Planning, so it would be respective to
have them come up beforehand. Just putting that out there.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I hear you loud and clear.
You put in a communication during a committee day in which you were not here.
These individuals waited on that day. And so, I'm going to move forward as
Committee Chair and exercise my authority and move forward with
Communication 533. Thank you.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business.
of Business:
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 533: REQUESTS AN UPDATE BY THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT ON THE
IMPLEMENTATION OF ORDINANCE NO. 18-114, RELATING TO
REGISTRATION OF SHORT-TERM VACATION RENTALS
From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated September 30, 2019.
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Motion to Close File: Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 533.
Seconded by Ms. David.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: If I could bring forward the representatives from the
Planning Department. I believe there's a presentation.
(Note: At this time, Planning Director Michael Yee came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. YEE: Michael Yee, Planning Director. I'm here to cut the tension. Now
you know what it's like to feel like our Planning Department right now. I read in
the newspaper article that Ashley wanted to get a temperature of the situation. I
can tell you, it's at least 103 right now.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: It's boiling right?
MR. YEE: Yes. And given that it's been a long day for you. Now you know
exactly how my staff has felt for like months now, every day, and you'll see the
stats on the overtime. Based on some of the comments as we're trying to get the
presentation up, there were folks testifying around changes to the bill. I don't
disagree with many of the comments around changes that are necessary, but I
need to just say probably what's on your mind.
We're not here to redraft to craft a new bill or to make revisions. We're here to
talk about how we're implementing the bill; the adjustments that I can make
within my authority to try to make it as smooth as possible. And yes, there's
going to be frustration out in the public and stuff, but we're trying.
You know, there was comments around, like different placards. Yes, that
happened early on. That was fixed a while back. So there's only one placard
design going out to folks, okay. Part of the complications when you have an
office here and one in Kona, and trying to insure that consistency when we're all
kind of flying and building the plane as we go, right? Alright and so, okay, I
think we're ready to launch. Thank you.
First of all, quick shout out to early on, I had a lot of help from Duane Kanuha
when he came out of retirement to help to take on the deputy position. And given
his expertise and experience, he was able to really help with the processing and
trying to refine the processes within in the department. Good to know, he's gone
home few weeks back. He'll rehab there, but I also want to announce then that
April Surprenant is the Acting Deputy Director of the Planning Department in his
absence. But we do miss Duane and everything that he brought to help the
department in the time he was back.
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(Note: At this time, Planning Director Michael Yee came forward and
provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee.
For viewing of subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting
proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the PowerPoint
presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 533.1.)
MR. YEE: So with that, I have to take questions.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Director. Questions? Ms. Eoff
MS. EOFF: Thank you. Not so much questions I guess, but I just want to add to
your thanking your staff You know, nobody could have really realized the
impact of such—that this would have. I mean we tried to foresee things, of
course, during discussion and consulting and all of the time that went in to trying
to draft something that would be solid and legal, but you never know.
So I mean the department hasn't had to take on something like this for a long
time, and like you said it came on top of a lot of other things. So I just want to
congratulate you. I feel kind of like from what you've said you've gone maybe to
the peak and now it should be a little bit easier, although there's a lot of
paperwork to do, but I think the stressors might have been sort of sorted out so
you know where to go at least with what.
And I completely agree that those trying to register homes in legal zoning districts
probably should get set aside while you take care of the ones that are
nonconforming use, because those are the ones you have to scrutinize a lot more
carefully. And so I think that's a great plan personally.
And yeah, during this whole time, I received lots of phone calls and complaints
and everything just because I've been associated with the process. But you know,
trying not to get too involved in what, you folks had to do, but I hope I was a little
bit helpful just trying to guide people or calm them down. No, I think, you know,
I think you've done an incredible job.
And I just wanted to clear something up about this five bedroom issue, because
Sid talked to me about it a long time ago, and I didn't feel like I could do anything
really to change the momentum of that, because my understanding was that after
you have more than five bedrooms, you may be defined more as a hotel or a lodge
or some other such thing that just didn't conform to the definition of what we
were regulating. So I'm not sure how you would explain that, but that was my
understanding about why the five bedroom number, because otherwise you are
defined as something different than a dwelling.
MR. YEE: Yes, Council Woman Eoff, you are absolutely correct that in our
discussions, you know, once you go to six bedrooms, you're starting to move into
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that lodging kind of category. Because if a lodge came to us and said, "Hey we
want to do a lodge of six bedrooms." Then they fall into certain kind of building
codes and stuff So do we want to—we were unwilling to sit there and say, "Hey
people you can create a lodge in a neighborhood and just call it a vacation rental."
MS. EOFF: And I'm sure that would have opened up a lot of other problems.
MR. YEE: Right, and to then skirt certain building codes around the safety of
those guests that we put on other lodges that legally would go through that
process and then follow those codes. So that's exactly where we fell on that.
MS. EOFF: So I wanted to make sure I was still—because that was kind of a
while back when we had discussed that.
MR. YEE: I would agree with having to relook at that in the future for resort
notes. I think that should certainly be looked at, but again, I will easily also say
that was also balanced with the safety of having folks stay in a place, right? And
so how do we insure the safety of folks and having numerous bedrooms. There
are safety things that are in lodges and stuff Fire systems, sprinkler systems,
whatever may be, right? And we want to make sure our visitors are safe.
MS. EOFF: That may be a discussion for a later time after all of this sort of
settles. The other one was the common thing you mentioned and I think I
understood that before, too. Well two things, why we offer the nonconforming
use certificate even though most residential neighborhoods, like you said, the
people don't want them there. But we were pretty much advised that we had to
offer that option, given there was nothing illegal about having a vacation rental
prior to our new law. So because of that we offered this nonconforming use.
MR. YEE: Yeah, so before seeing the majority of our PO's (purchase orders)
based on us denying in the agricultural lands. Can you imagine if we had denied
in residential zones, right?
MS. EOFF: Exactly. And we had something in our Code that does provide for
the nonconforming use situation. Yeah, the Ag one was basically because we
cannot violate state law, and so that was a difficult thing for people to understand.
But all in all, all those other glitches, I think you did find solutions and helped
people, and just feedback.
I don't know too much about the Hilo office, but in the Kona office, I heard
many, many times people who were worried. You know, had sort of like issues
beginning to get their packet together. By the time they got through, they were
admiring and just acknowledging the wonderful staff and how well they were
treated, and how helpful people were. So the staff in Kona actually patient and
helpful, and consoling. And you know, people had to come back multiple times,
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but in the end, they had nothing but praises for the staff You know, the law
itself, maybe they were not happy with, but I think the treatment was excellent.
So, anyways, thank you. And I'm sure we weren't the only county that suffered
all of these, you know, issues. And maybe there's consolation in that. Everyone,
not only in our state, but all over the nation, is facing this issue.
MR. YEE: Can I make one quick comment on this? So, I've taken the question,
so where do we stand in terms of who's out there left? So early estimates, there
were 6,000 to 8,000 vacation rentals. That also probably included hosted rentals.
So at 4,000 applications, that leaves the question of, who's out there? How many
of those are hosted; how many of them are illegal? I have no idea. I can tell you,
we certainly have illegals. We're going to have folks that realize they probably
couldn't do it on post `76 (1976) lots and are just going to operate until they get
busted, who knows? So I have no idea how many hosted are out there, and what's
the number, but I'm sure it's not a small number given the experience from the
other islands.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Eoff Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. And thanks, Michael, for being here and
giving an update. For those of us from previous term when this was put forth, it
was suspected it was going to be daunting. Your numbers are validating that
concern, 4,000 opposed to 800 annual. I want to come back and talk to that.
Your comments about the 1,000 comments coming in, which 900 -plus are
negative, also validates something that I noticed as we went through the hearings
and public testimony, that the recurrent theme throughout all of that was bad
neighbors. And that was probably what brought it more to light than anything
else. Yeah, there were zoning issues; conforming issues, all that, but the bad
neighbor that was the most.
I think one of your—I've got so much paper to read. One of the comments you
made in this was that with that, even though it's in the nonconforming area, the
point is that if they're being a bad neighbor, still that there's going to be a way to
say, "Hey look, you had your shot. We gave you a shot, and if you're not
managing trying to be good neighbor, you're going to lose your shot."
So I think there is a safeguard for the community as a whole. And trying to strike
that balance between coming forward with people's right to have an economic
generator, because that's what we struggle with. And we have people that run
vacation rentals. Some people are putting their kids through college with that.
Some people are able to go visit family on the mainland while they run it here.
And you've heard all of these deals.
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It was purposely crafted to give Planning and the Planning Director latitude to try
and accommodate for some of these things coming forward. What I'm most
interested in Michael is the comment about the overtime you're pushing, and your
morale in the office and long hours and all that. And I don't think any of us
thought it would be quite at the extent we're at. Of course, none of us planned on
the volcano, and so, there's a lot more demands on your department.
And as we go into the budget process and what we need to do, I'm the first one to
start looking at numbers and being very fiscally minded. But that being said, if
we want to get through this process and maintain some sort of working staff at the
other end, are you going to be seeking more resources to go forward, because we
don't want to burn out the staff and everybody resign. That's not going to solve
anything.
MR. YEE: I'm trying to bring on the staff as much as the system allows me to do
so as fast as we can. So, that's the first part of my answer. Part two is, the plus
side, we weren't ever sure where we were going to fall on the number of
registration fees that we were going to collect. So at 4,000 initial, 4,000 x $500 is
substantial. And then with 1,000 nonconforming that have to come in annually at
$250 a year. That's a decent revenue stream. And then we'll eventually have
new registrations and fines that go out.
So there's money there, clearly on this overtime, we're just rolling over our
registration fees to be able to pay our overtime now. So it hasn't been—luckily
I'm in this position. I don't have to worry about how we're funding the overtime,
but I also know that if the revenue stream is only let's say a quarter million
dollars, that's not going to fund seven positions regularly as we had first thought.
So it's going to depend on how many registrations. And again, we're smart
enough not to just go out and hire seven people right away and just launch into
that.
But we clearly know we have the comfort zone of hiring a Planner III; hiring a
couple inspectors; doing the on-line compliance. That at a bare minimum, we
know we can kind of afford and we should do it regardless. So, I don't think we
need to ask for additional resources right now beyond what we had originally
planned.
Again, out there looming is Part two and three around hosted rentals and stuff like
that and what kind of on -slot that may bring someday. So, yeah, I think we're
good for now, but we have to pay attention to that new revenue flow and what's
going to be a sustainable revenue. Because even on that 1,000 nonconforming,
overtime that number should shrink, right? So, we have—it's going to be a
budgeting exercise all the time.
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November 5, 2019
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, I'm worrying about what Planning Department looks
like four or five years from now. If you get through this onslaught and we burn
you out, we're having trouble getting things done now, and we as a Council
should be mindful of that conversation because this is something we did to you
which is for the County.
MR. YEE: I want to add that the Planning Department is a special department,
and I'm not just saying that. Because of the long-term vision and the mission that
we have, there's a different focus from the employees that work there. Yes, but
not every single one, but the majority of folks are really in there to help the
community. And yes, morale issues and stuff, but I got to tell you, the managers
have a good pulse of their staff, and we will get through this. And the morale will
be fine, you know, after this period goes—you know, we finish up.
But we do need to have that window where we do finish up. So you know, I
understand you're worried. I think the managers and I talked often to try to make
sure we're paying attention to the staff and that we don't do anything that will
harm the department long-term wise. But that's what's special about our
department. We keep taking on the work.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, well, we'll just keep that in mind. And again, Michael,
appreciate that it's about balance and striking that balance in there. So with that
Chair, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Lee Loy, did you have a
couple questions?
MS. LEE LOY: I did and thank you, Michael. And thank you for unpacking all
of the nuances of what this piece of legislation created. I did have a question
regarding the—under your administrative challenges, the covenants, conditions
and restrictions (CC&R). Well, you know, it did come up, and there was a real
kind of bright line or encouragement from Corporation Counsel that, you know,
those CC&R's, the County was going to stay away from. And now it's becoming
a challenge, and so I just kind of want to hear from you.
MR. YEE: So, on Page One of the ordinance, in the first section, there's a line
that says. This bill basically does not override CC&R's. We're going to lean on
that at this point to say, if we don't override CC&R's, blah, blah, blah. Okay,
that's where I'm going to go.
MS. LEE LOY: It's fine, we can talk and stand in some real honest conversations
offline. Regarding the application process, incomplete or missing building permit
records. I know we, you know, got help from HELCO (Hawai`i Electric Light
Company). But my question to that is, because looking ahead, we still have to
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look at hosted, right? And we know now that the building permit record keeping
was never designed for lending itself for these compliance issues.
And I was just wondering what you would suggest as far as how we can create
maybe a better system so that, you know, all these different pieces that now have
to sing as a choir, can start working together in breaking down some of those
silos.
MR. YEE: Yeah, the answer is EnerGov. It will show us the way. I think the
simplicity, not to really answer your question would be—it really takes having
DPW (Department of Public Works), us and other, you know, partners in this, to
really get into a room and ground truth any future bill, right? I think that's what
we learned on this bill, which was, it couldn't be treated like any new ordinance,
that you know, you assign it to a department and say, "Okay, go forth, make it
happen." This kind of situation, again, let's say a hosted bill, will have to sit there
and you take the bill, where we didn't do the rule making, we start thinking about
the rule making, we start going to departments and testing something, "Okay,
here's the made-up application. Let's run it through and see what happens,"
right?
I think we have that wisdom now to know that's how we would want to ground
truth any future bill around vacation rentals. And to try to work out those kinks
ahead of time. And we've certainly learned a lot already on this one. But yeah, I
will also say this system as imperfect as it was, we were trying to capture illegal
structures. Like we wanted people to be in permitted safe structures. And so this
has really exposed a lot of folks that were operating in illegal structures.
And so it did accomplish that. It did capture some innocent folks that just may
have had some open permits and never got closed for some reason or another, and
we didn't anticipate that. But you also have to think about the good ones that we
did catch, that there are things that people with the money and power will go off
and just do, because they take a strategic risk at doing it. They have the means to
do it and they make a calculated guess that, "Hey, I'm just going to do this."
Well, sometimes that calculated risk falls on the other side where it's not so easy
to get, let's say, a vacation rental now. And so, in this case, the system also has
its benefits, as painful as it is sometimes.
MS. LEE LOY: I think I have three more questions. Board of Appeals Cases,
Hire a Planner III to assist. Are we retooling that job description a little bit so
that, not only does it have some of the experiences of a Planner III, but maybe
some legal qualifications so that that position might be more multi -pronged to
address some of the technical background writing as it goes into Board of Appeals
that will later then be taken up to Third Circuit Court. Has any thought been
given to that?
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November 5, 2019
MR. YEE: Yeah, I would generally say, no. I think we're going to leave the
legal side to Corporation Counsel. This Planner III is really meant to help
expedite the paperwork, insure that the deadlines are being met. That given the
load on clerks, on their current workload, that to try to place a bunch of deadlines
and other things, very sensitive documents flowing, that we wanted a Planner III
level.
And also, we're very intentional about Planner IIL I know this is not how other
systems work, but we're trying to create a career ladder. Yeah, what's a career
ladder? A way for people to move from the desk to other jobs, and to get into
Planner series. If we keep shoving everything up to a Planner IV, V, or VI, we'll
never get that career ladder. And so, we are trying to intentionally create some
Planner III positions to do that to solve a second issue we have in the department.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. I do want to ask about one testifier who talked about
consistent language. When they get, you know, these notifications, there's
language from Kona side and different from Hilo. What's going on over there,
Michael?
MR. YEE: Inconsistency. Well on the placards that got fixed. I don't know what
the specific example is. We are trying to work from template forms. There's
kind of template language for certain things that a certain vacation rental may
have on their property. So an approval letter is not going to look exactly the
same. There may be a clause or something else that came up through testimony
that we add into it.
Generally speaking, it's generally all template language though. So I'm not sure
what they're really talking about. I'm not sure what that inconsistency is at this
point because I know even within our system we made a big change where I have
a Program Manager in Kona. I have a Program Manager for administrative
permits. Program Managers that quarterback these applications. At a certain
point to make sure we had consistency I've just made one of them, you know him,
Norren Kato as the main quarterback. So he is overseeing and trying to ensure
that we have that consistency. You know, again not easy, because now he's
driving over to Kona once a week to have to deal with their issues. So again, it's
just added stress to a system. But in the end we felt that was necessary. Again,
we have fabulous managers that, you know, go the extra mile to make sure we get
this done the right way.
So I think we're fixing the inconsistencies. I'm not going to lie, it probably
occurs, but when we're aware of an inconsistency, we're definitely are trying to
fix them.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, and this really is my last question, and maybe it's
just nervous laughter, EnerGov. I've been incredibly patient with that, and you
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know, I'll just put it out there. I'm going to be forwarding a communication for a
status update, because I want you, Public Works, IT (Information Technology)
right here at the table, and we need to iron this out.
Because if it really is supposed to be the tool and I said it in another committee,
it's failing. And if we're going to rely on it then we need to make a commitment,
whether it's additional resources, building Administrative Rules around it,
whatever. I need to have that frank and honest discussion with everybody at the
table so this body can get a clear understanding on what that tool was supposed to
be and what type of resources need to go into that.
Please, Michael, help me comment on that one, because if this is going to be part
of the additional concurrent demands, these things need to run in parallel with one
another if we're going to have, you know, a government system that works.
Michael, please.
MR. YEE: EnerGov, you're right, it's a tool. I want to add that I said during my
presentation that a system like this exposes where the systems are broken and not
working efficiently, where we sit in silos too much. EnerGov is part of that. I
wish, Ms. Lee Loy, that I had a magic wand to help with the situation. At this
point, we've been in the testing phase, and the funny part is lot of our key people
working on vacation rentals are also our testers. So trying to squeeze that time
out of them to find that time to test the software; to test the processes, becomes
difficult.
I'm sure we're causing some of the current delays possibly, but we had to make
hard choices in the department. But we're trying to keep up with that schedule.
I've heard that schedule has been pushed back a little bit. So that gives us a little
more breathing room for now. But you know, what's cutting 20 hours of
overtime to 18 hours? It doesn't make much of a difference at this point. It just
sits out there as just another priority we have to address.
Again, we can't go back in time. Just, there was never enough resources given to
the project for everyone to implement well. So the whole EnerGov team is
grinding through the process. And luckily I don't have to sit through those
meetings. Douglas Lee and Norren has had to sit through those. You know,
lucky for them they get to do that, and they are doing their best to motivate the
staff to do their part to bring the software online. So that's the best answer I can
give you on EnerGov.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Director. And, you know, all joking aside, our
Deputy Clerk Aaron Brown also sits on that committee, and it's floundering. It's
not making me happy. And a lot of people know when I'm not happy. There's
quite a bit of rumble that happens at this table. So thank you for your honesty,
Director. I'm going to yield. Thank you, Chair.
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November 5, 2019
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, just a quick follow up, Michael. And just like you said,
this whole process has highlighted some of the broken things. But this is also
highlighting how broken a lot of our processes are. And one of the comments
I've started to make is that, I fear one of the biggest obstructions of our County
moving forward is our County government itself. And if we don't clear this up
and move it forward, and that's why I asked the question, do we need to get more
resources allocated?
Not just for Planning, but we've got to kind of streamline things. Clean things up
and move them forward. And like you said, this does highlight some things. I
fear I know we're backlogged in our building permit process, and now we dump
on five years' worth in a matter of months on you. And those numbers are not
lost on me, and I just fear for moving our economy forward. So we'll have this
conversation further. Thanks Chair, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Director Yee, thank you so much for braving
it out for me and coming out here. That wasn't too bad, right? I still have my
questions.
MR. YEE: DEM's (Department of Environmental Management) waiting.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: They'll be quick, I've got like four because my
colleagues asked the other ones, so I'm grateful.
But you know, we've highlighted broken systems, but I think it's also important
to highlight that you released that thought as a leader in this moment. That was
really, you know, kind of like a crap show. You've helped to navigate things with
a lot of finesse and positivity, and so I appreciate that. And I appreciate your staff
very much for their commitment to doing their best to make the process and the
system work, so thank you.
I'm curious, I don't think you shared with me how many appeals have been filed
so far. Just one?
MR. YEE: No, there was a slide that said we had eight appeals. You know, I had
a couple more that came in today. We're clearing some off the deck too, so when
I created that slide I knew there were eight. Again, they're kind of precedent
setting, kind of decisions that get made. So those might clear more appeals. So
you know, we'll see. But you know, again, the main message around the Board
of Appeals is they're all generally challenging than post `76 Ag land restriction
we put on.
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November 5, 2019
And again, when we go to the Board of Appeals, I really need the State to make
sure that we hear from them around their stance on that, because that's going to be
really important. And again, like I said, win or lose at Board of Appeals, we're
going to go to Third Circuit Court. And we know that.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: So you've processed about a quarter of all the
applications that have been submitted?
MR. YEE: Yes about that, yes.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, so I'm going to use the same metric here with the
number of appeals that come through. So eight x four, 32. Have you anticipated
like the cost associated with the appeals process?
MR. YEE: No.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, we can leave it at that. That's fine, but just
considerations, because now we're in budget time. Can you tell me a little bit
about the process for issuing denials?
MR. YEE: I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I'd certainly sign off on
denials.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I mean is there any engagement with the applicant to
kind of talk through the decision prior to issuing the letter to insure it's based on
facts, the denial?
MR. YEE: I would say a bulk of the denials also, and it's reflective in the number
of appeals, are based on this post `76. Okay, so that's pretty straight forward.
We're going to have a few denials out there that have to do with illegal structures
and other things, but the bulk of them are the post `76. So it's pretty straight
forward.
When we send out a letter, there's a check -box kind of thing so you check a box
and say okay, this is where you're not consistent. And so people are very clear at
that point, at least I feel they should be clear about why we're denying the
application. They may not like it, but I think we're clear about it.
During the process of an application, if it's not dealing with the post '76 issue
usually, and we're trying to clarify building permit issues or whatever, we are
working closely and asking for additional information to help clarify that. It's not
like you send it in and we just give you a rejection. If there's more information
we need, we request it.
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And I've certainly signed off on a lot of acknowledgements asking for additional
information. That was part of adjusting, and the process we used to not accept an
application if it wasn't complete, we sent straight to eventually kind of
acknowledging receipt, but saying, "We need this if you really want us to kind of
finish off reviewing your thing." So that helped expedite getting some more
acknowledgements and expediting that process.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: So one of the rules state that Planning will respond to an
applicant regarding completeness within 15 days from the date the application
was filed. Have we met this deadline for all the applications?
MR. YEE: No.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Are you worried at all about 10(c), about a
decision not being rendered within 90 days and automatic approval.
MR. YEE: Every night.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, the other thing I'll just note and no need to
comment, or whatever. But, you said something earlier, we want to make sure
we're putting people into safe, permitted structures. I just think that's interesting,
because I don't think we have the same standard when we're handing out
Section 8 vouchers. Not for you, but hopefully, Housing is tuning in to this
conversation. Anyway, any other questions or comments? We have a motion on
the floor to close file on Communication 533, all in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Comm. 533: The motion to close file on Comm. 533 was carried by the
(Filed): following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz — 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Chung — 1.
Excused: None.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order
RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions.
(There were none.)
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Do I have a motion to adjourn?
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ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 6:46 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn the
MENT: meeting. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Chung— 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Planning Committee is adjourned. Thank you for your
patience everyone.
Approved:
I )1 Cl /--o i CI
Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz, Chair (Date)
Planning Committee
AK/dt
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