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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2019/11/19 2018-2020Committee on Finance 23rd Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii November 19, 2019 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at 3:02 p.m., ORDER: the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair. R(1T T CAT r Present: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Karen Eoff, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (came in later) STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: `Aina Akamu: Cory Harden: Roger Christie: (representing the THC Ministry) Brittany Anderson: Ross Wilson: Shannon Matson: Abolghassem Abraham Sadegh Res. 384-19 (Comm. 583), in support. Bill 115 (Comm. 605), comment. Comm. 90. 1, comment. Comm. 90. 1, in opposition. Comm. 614, comment. Comm. 90.1; and Bill 115 (Comm. 605), in support. Bill 114 (Comm. 604); and Bill 115 (Comm. 605), comment. FC -23 COMMUNI- r A TTnNc Comm. 90.1: Jane Clement: (representing the Kailua Village Business Improvement District) Jerry Warren: Sammie Stanbro: (representing Lani Hau Farms Kona) Keoni Fox: (representing Ho`omalu Ka`u) Mason Myrmo: (representing Protect Kohanaiki `Ohana) November 19, 2019 Comm. 614, in support. Res. 384-19 (Comm. 583), in opposition. Res. 383-19 (Comm. 582); Res. 384-19 (Comm. 583); Res. 385-19 (Comm. 584); and Res. 389-19 (Comm. 588), comment. Res. 384-19 (Comm. 583), in support. Res. 385-19 (Comm. 584), in support. CHR. DAVID: I think that concludes our public testimony on this committee, and I will therefore close public testimony and move on to Communications. Mr. Clerk, I believe we can just start at the top of the agenda. The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Communications. FINAL REPORT FROM THE REAL PROPERTY TAX REVIEW WORKING GROUP AND AGRICULTURAL COMMITTEE From Finance Director Deanna Sako, dated October 31, 2019, providing a recap of prior recommendations and a summary of new recommendations for consideration and action by the Council and the Administration. Motion to Close File: Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 90.1. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter. CHR. DAVID: We have with us today, we have Riley Smith and Bill Moore. Will you please—and also Director Miura. Will you folks come up here and give us a brief review of your report before I open it up for questions? Identify yourselves. (Note: At this time, William Moore, Riley Smith, and Jaime Ortiz, representing the Real Property Tax Review Working Group, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MOORE: Thank you, Chair, Committee Members. I just also want to recognize that Jaime Navarro is in Hilo, who is a member of the Committee; and Page 2 FC -23 November 19, 2019 we have Riley Smith here. I understand that you wanted to get some direct feedback from the Committee members. I was semi -volunteered by others. But I just want to go back. This is just some of the materials that we went through, and it's only a portion of it, most of my stuff is on the computer electronically. But, a couple of things. We've been there doing this for two years. We've had 24 meetings in total, of one committee; and we did two committee meetings a day, so 24 and 23 of the Ag Committee. I think I was there for at least 20 of them, as were most of the members. This was a really committed group to participate over the two years. A couple of things. Right from the start, we decided that we're going do things by consensus, so it was not a matter of vote. I don't think we ever took a vote on anything. It was discussion, agreement, trying to bring together and find a way, a path forward. The other thing that we agreed on is that there would be no Chair, so I am not a Chair, I'm just one of equals. The committee though, however, working with the staff, would set the agenda. So this is not a director or a department -driven process. It was a committee -driven process. Although, they would provide input. We would get issues and concerns, and if we wanted to take it up, then we'd brought that up. It was not them saying, "You shall talk about this." The other thing that was really critical is that we had an agreement of non -attribution, that nobody would be able to attribute any specific comment to any specific member, and this really led to a robust discussion. We could be really free about what we talked about, what we felt, with the confidence that we would not, you know, "Bill Moore said this." And that was really critical. If you look at the landowners, we have a bunch of different landowners. And for the record, I am a Planning Consultant. And I have a number of clients that are on that list that are doing ag. I don't do ag. It is not in my real house in terms of what I work on. You know, I'm working with these landowners. So we really try to separate out our public hat about what this program needs to do with our self-interest, how is this going to help my particular property? I think we're conscious of that. We called each other on that, so it was part of our robust discussions. You have the report, the first four items or things that have been accomplished. And really, a lot of my focus was in the ag side, but I participated in both committees. One of the key items that was talked about was the short-term vacation rentals and whether there should be a separate tax class. And the more we discussed it,—and by the way, I'm an economics major in college and a little bit of graduate work, and so the whole philosophy of real property tax is part of things that came back to me. And so I'm getting ready to go up to a bunch of my high school—my college class reunion guys. I'm going to see them in a couple of weeks. Page 31 FC -23 November 19, 2019 But, the philosophy of tax and how we do it. And one of the real key issues is use versus classification. We talked about it. There was a comment or saying, "Have a special tax for marijuana growing." That's a use. And if we go down that slope, we're down a slippery slope. Every use, then we can have a separate tax rate, as opposed to a class; are you an ag class or residential class? We felt very strongly that we should keep a classification system going, which is what we've been doing, and not going into a use. And there's a bunch of issues related to that. The difference in definitions between the County's short-term vacation rental, 30 days. The State's short-term vacation rental, which is less than six months. What do you do? How do you that? As things go in and out, how do you move, how do you keep track of that? So the accounting of that was just crazy. And we got into that with the staff. I mean, that was part of our questioning. How much staff time would you have to apply to this to make it work? Kind of went, "Okay, six new bodies in addition to the Planning Department bodies." So this is all part of our robust discussions on this. One of the things that we felt strongly, though, is that most of the CPRs (Condominium Property Regime) or the vacation rentals are in multi -family units, which are the highest tax rate. Most places, it's your resort is your highest tax rate. Our multi -family is our highest tax rate. So the majority of short-term vacation rentals will be in the highest tax rate already. But that brought up a real big issue, is we have condominiums automatically in. We have these apartments, which tend to be the lowest income you know, non-CPR'd apartments have the same highest tax rate. So we had a really big discussion. And rather than changing it and trying to separate a condo apartment, we decided that we really wanted to push those apartments to an affordable rental program, which is an existing program. And so we encouraged the staff, the staff did that. They contacted all of these and see if rather than trying to create a new tax classification; if we can just get them fitting into a program which gives them a tax break without changing our tax classifications. So I just wanted you to know, we really went through some robust discussions on this, and a lot of back and forth and good input. And it's something that is being implemented now with Lisa, working with the apartments as opposed to the condominiums. And again, really trying to push them into getting some tax breaks, because they serve—which ties to the second, the Affordable Rental Program. This is out of my league. So although I worked for County Housing, a lifetime ago, dinosaurs ago—so I don't know if Jaime wants to jump in on this one. But really going back and forth. The discrepancy, we have one program, and the discrepancy in rental rates between Hilo—East Hawaii and West Hawaii. Lack of information or to come up with programs. So this is an ongoing issue that we Page 4 FC -23 November 19, 2019 really want to encourage. The program works pretty well in Hilo; it does not work well in West Hawaii. So we're really trying to push, how do we make it work better? You know, we have one set of numbers for the entire island. Hard to come up with two sets of rental rates. So this is an ongoing issue that we just need to continue to work on. One, is to get more people on both sides of the island. But really focusing on West Hawaii where the rates just don't quite work. You know, again on other technical things, the condominiums. The ratings, the assessments come in with a land value and the building value, and people can appeal on either one or both. It just creates all kinds of issues here. So this is more of a technical, and Jaime really can jump on this one. But looking to have one appeal rather than multiple appeals. So if you appealed your tax rate, you appealed your tax rate under condominium. You don't get to appeal your building versus your land. It's just one rate, and I think this is how most other counties are doing this. So this one is a little more technical, but it does create issues for the Board of Appeals and a lot of effort. The appraisals will be always be done with the two rates, but it'll be a blended rate in terms of an appeal, if you come in. The fourth item is one that ties into everything that we're doing. How do we make this easier? And the electronic signatures become a really critical factor, in just how do you make it easier to apply? When we talk about the ag—we'll get into some of these issues, about how do we make these programs work better? But the electronic signatures would just be one of those little things that we can do so people don't have to send in—mail in. You can do it electronically now. It just makes life a whole lot easier. And again, Jaime, I don't know if you want to jump in on anything—on these. MR. ORTIZ: Hi. Just for the record, to introduce myself. I'm Jaime Ortiz, Independent Real Estate Appraiser. Bill, you're doing a great job. Yeah, just reiterating on the condominium proposal to appeal on the whole value. That is, to me as an appraiser, it's a very good recommendation because it will create more consistency, and appeals will be more defendable from both sides, the taxpayers as well as from the Board of Review. So indeed, it will create less confusion with condominium properties. I guess if you just want to continue with the agricultural? MR. MOORE: Yeah, and I'll jump in on the agricultural again. MR. ORTIZ: Okay. MR. MOORE: This was, again, a separate committee. Again, Jaime was on it with Riley, me, a bunch of other people. Their names are mentioned and listed there, so I won't go through that. Page 5 FC -23 November 19, 2019 But it really started with the problem statement. Our Agricultural Dedication Program is a really robust program, but it works on real limited basis. It works generally for large landowners. It works for monocrops and/or it works for diversified ag, if you're an owner -operator. And that was a situation when this program was invented. We had sugar, monocrop; large ranchers, and owner -operator. We've got farmers, you know, the classic Lalimilo Farm is 20 acres of diversified crops, but they're the owner and they're the farmer. And this Ag Dedication Program worked really well for that class of people. It didn't work very well for other people. Our current program requires 100 percent of the landowners to sign off on the application. If you have one unlocated kuleana in your property, you don't qualify for the dedication program. So it really is limiting on that. We now have large landowners that are no longer operators. They're licensing their lands out. The program does not accommodate these transitions as you go from one lessee licensee to another or as you go from a fallow, a papaya. You know, you have it—you know, lands go fallow for three years. If you dedicate it for 10 years, and your lands go fallow for three years, guess what, you're at risk of a rollback tax, even though that is a normal practice. So the Ag Dedication Program, again, really good program but it didn't work really well for changing circumstances. At the same time, the Non -Dedicated Agricultural Program had a bunch of issues. One of it, it was really easy to get into. That's great and it's not great. For those that didn't qualify, for those large landowners, ranchers, that didn't qualify for the Ag Dedication, it was a really robust way to get in and do the same thing for almost the same rate. It's two times the dedicated rate, really a generous program. But it also led to perceptions of abuse. People doing ag, but you know, again running one sheep on a three -acre piece and getting a huge tax break. Good, bad, you know, it's ag. It's not a bad thing. You know, so we went through all of these issues and really tried to think our way through this, how do we come up with a program that is really robust? That we really want to focus on the commercial ag or the larger scale ag but not throw the baby out with the bath water. We still want to encourage agriculture. So one of our major efforts, and if you look at items in your items 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10, those are critical elements to make this work. But make what work? Is to make this overall program. So we felt as a group is that we needed to relook at our entire ag program, from a two-tier program, basically a dedicated and a non -dedicated, to a dedicated program that works for the largeoh, not the large it works for commercial operators and it works for today's situation where you have a bifurcation of owners and operators, where you have situations where you know, you cannot get 100 percent of the landowners to sign. But we still need to have it protecting our interests, so you don't get to scam it. You know, I've heard people, "I'm going to put a beehive and get away with everything." Page 6 FC -23 November 19, 2019 So, how do we find that? How do we find that path? It's not easy. What we're providing is a framework as opposed to an answer. The answer is going to be coming when the legislation comes to you. But the framework that we're recommending is an ag dedicated program that is really lowering rates. So we have, I think, three or four tiers for pasture, depending on quality. One, is we're sending our appraisers out to learn how to be cattle guys and know, is that a good pasture or not a good pasture? We're saying, "Look, pasture is pasture." You know, what we're going to do is encourage it, so we're proposing a single rate for pasture at the lowest rate. We really encourage that. At the same time, the barrier to get into that, we're raising it a little. It's about the same. But trying to come up with that. We're lowering if you look at that, we want a 51 percent ownership. As long as the person signing is making those payments is the one signing that and committing to making those payments and committing to the rollback taxes. Then let's make this easier, you know, whether it's 51, or it's two-thirds or something, but not 100 percent. That just doesn't work. The other thing is creating a robust farm program application process. So if you are doing diversified farming by a large land or licensing it out, you can come up with a farm plan and provide for flexibility of—okay, we don't know who the lessees—licensee is going to be, we don't know what the use is, but we're committing to this area. And as we bring people in, we'll let you know. But if it goes fallow, it goes fallow, but we're committed to holding that for ag. So just creating a program that allows for this diversified farmers to come in and for the landowners to not be penalized by allowing that to come in. It also provides for mixed -crops. I know there's a lot of talk now about trying to get papaya and cattle. So when you're in fallow, cattle in there, what rate do you charge them? So we're trying to come up with programs that would encourage these mixed -uses and really at a rate that makes sense. So really loosening up the operations, but with a really robust farm plan requirement that can be tracked. Allowing for fallow, recognizing that, training the appraisers for that. So that will take care of your ag dedication. You know, it's still a robust program. The other thing we talked about then is, what happens for those that are doing commercial ag but aren't quite sure? They're starting out, new farmers, or I'm not sure how long I want to commit. So we talked about a three-year dedication program. Doesn't get recorded. It's a littlerequirements to get in are the same. We're not changing the requirements. We're just changing the time to allow more flexibility; so if a landowner is not quite sure, he doesn't have to tie up his lands for 10 years. The rates we're talking about is three times the dedicated rate, so it's not quite as beneficial. So we still want to encourage them to go in for 10 years. Page 7 FC -23 November 19, 2019 We also recognize that the—especially in Ka`u and Puna, our dedicated rates can actually be higher than your tax rates. We wanted to have a lower than safety value, so it's either a percent of your value or the dedicated rate, whichever is lower. So we're really recognizing in the lower -valued areas. We still want to encourage people to go into farming and not penalizing them. If you go into farming, you're going to actually have to pay a higher tax rate than you're paying now. That didn't make a lot of sense. And again, this is where the tax office was incredible in providing us information. Looking at that. How many situations do we have like that? I was shocked; it's more than we think. But how do encourage these areas to continue farming? And so that is one of our real major recommendations. Both were the dedicated and the non -dedicated. At the same time, we didn't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. The non -dedicated is a really important program. There are thousands of acres of ag activities in that, but it also—you know, how big of a break do we get? So what we talked about was tying that program to a percent of fair market value. And the discussion was—we went back and forth from 70 to 10, to all over the place. But we wanted to encourage. We wanted to make this program still viable and valuable. So we're looking at 30 percent, as kind of a starting point. Could be lower; could be higher. But what want to do is not make it so high. People just walk away and we lose, you know, hundreds or thousands of acres of, you know, not commitment but of ag uses. So, we still want to make sure that it qualifies. The program, you know, where people were talking about, you know, "I have a sustainable farm." We're not trying to discourage that. We still want to see the farm plans. This is where the arc of the actual bill will come in. How do we encourage that? We have access to all of it. You know, without names, access to all of the information of what people are doing in terms of getting non -dedicated programs. So how do we make sure that they are doing something, you know, I wouldn't say legitimate, but doing something significant in terms of adding to the ag contribution? So we really felt strongly that it was a program, and it's not one we wanted to have "you pick one or the other." It's just that—from our recommendation is if you're going to do it, do all three; if you're not going to do all three, then let's start over again. And that's really where we were coming from. The other critical components to this programs are those other items that we talked about, allowing less than 50 percent or 100 percent to apply. You know, we wanted to add the minimum size requirement. That will help weed out a lot of your marginal uses. At the same time, there's exemptions to that. If you have a five -acre ag activity that is really robust, then you don't need to meet to the 10 -acre, but you've got to prove that you're doing it, as opposed to having one cow on five acres. So there's provisions in there on how we're structuring this. Page 8 FC -23 November 19, 2019 But ultimately, it's going to be when the rubber meets the road in terms of the bill and rules. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Moore? MR. MOORE: But we're encouraging flexibility in this, but at the same, we want it for real. CHR. DAVID: When you have a minute MR. MOORE: Sure. CHR. DAVID: I'd like to ask my Council Members, as you you explained a lot up until this point. I just want to give them an opportunity. I see them writing for questions. And, Mr. Smith, before they ask questions, would you like to say a few words? MR. SMITH: Sure. Chair David, Finance Committee, and Council Members, my name is Riley Smith. I know many of you. I was included on this committee, I think, mainly because I live in Waimea and shop at Lisa's husband's store. You know, I think I represent where I live, in South Kohala, as well as where I work, in North Kona. I was also selected to be on this because I represent the agricultural community with one of our endeavors that our business operates. I just wanted to comment that I thought that the group was very diverse. You had large landowners, small landowners, business people throughout the island. Bill's contributions to the group, because of his familiarity with the Planning Department over 30, 40 years. And why you have one -acre ag parcels and things like that, you couldn't find in a book, you know, he'd be on his computer and he'd figure all this stuff out. I think my resource was mainly because I used to work in the Department of Public of Works and I have a lot of familiarity with land development, and roadway improvements, and infrastructure, and wastewater treatment plants, and things like that, so I think each of us provided a different aspect of our community to contribute where needed but no one person was overbearing of everybody else. CHR. DAVID: Correct. MR. SMITH: I think one of the goals of this group was not only to provide recommendations to the Council, but also to be ongoing in a continuous basis to provide additional feedback to the Finance Department and their collaboration with the County Council. So, thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much. Council Members, I'm going to open it up for questions. I see Mr. Richards. Go ahead, Mr. Richards. Page 9 FC -23 November 19, 2019 MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Hi, Bill. MR. MOORE: Hi. MR. RICHARDS: Hi, Riley. MR. SMITH: Hi. MR. RICHARDS: Thanks for being here. Thanks for bringing this report in. This is something that when this initially started, not in this term but in our previous term, with a concept going forward rewriting the tax parameters. And obviously, I'm keenly interested on the agricultural side for obvious reasons, and I've worked with you guys for years. I come in on the—well, back up a little bit. We've heard some comments today from public testimony, concerning agriculture and how we phrase or characterize agriculture going forward. From large scale down to subsistence, if you want to call it that, or small scale. As you guys know, agriculture for me is agriculture regardless of what we're doing. There was comment made previously that there was too much ag exemption being used, as you said, Bill, a perception of abuse of the system. I think there was one comment, one said, "Perhaps the economy was losing $40 million worth of potential revenue," when in fact I think it was looked at, it was closer to maybe $4 or $5 million at that point. I like what I'm hearing, though it's going to take a bit more work. The area that I am most concerned about is the real small landowner, one acre, half acre, or whatever, and they're doing something. A comment was made by one of our testifiers that, you know, if someone's got a half -acre and they're doing how extensive of planning? Because then we're crossing over into a lot of paperwork to prove that you're doing agriculture. Classically, the people that are doing a smaller scale of agriculture, albeit important, are not going to be given a lot of paperwork. So I'm concerned there going forward. I like the intent, I like the direction, but I'm concerned about the parameters. Bill, can you fill us in on some of those conversations? MR. MOORE: You know, we've gone back and forth on this again. We've looked at different farm plans. Right now for the dedicated, you have to come up with a farm plan, and those farm plans are from incredible to "huh?" The non -dedicated, your farm plan is "I'm going to have two animals on my farm, on my ranch." So the differences are really hard, it makes it really hard on the staff. Page 10 FC -23 November 19, 2019 One of the points which I was supposed to get to, is the non -dedicated process creates incredible problems, and we've—with the staff for two years, on this. One in assessing what's for real, and then enforcing what's for real So it becomes really hard because you don't have a plan. You drive by somebody's ranch or a two -acre piece that's fenced and there's no animals there, is that pasture or not pasture? And if you have a plan saying, "Okay, this is part of a larger area and we're going to be moving cattle in and out and, you know, here it is." So we're notI think the art of this is to find enough information to make a decision. But you know, hand -drawn works is not, you know, consultants. The other thing that we're talking about, and I think Lisa jumped on this, but trying to build internal capacity, working with interns and the like to help create plans. Research and Development has a resource that is there and working with. So how do we make it easier? You know, for the smaller scaleI mean, our current dedicated program for diversified ag is a quarter acre, I mean, we're not talking big scale. You know, it fits there. And if you have less than that and you can show it, you know, the program doesn't say, "You shall be at 20.25 acres." That's the minimum, unless you can show that you have more information. So the more off you are in terms of the minimum acreage, is the more information you should be providing. The art is going to be in the implementation, training of staff. But having something in front of you that you can look at; "Yes, I'm going to have a quarter acre of this, and I'm going to be,""If it's a 10 -year program, it may change, but here's what we're going to do and how I want to replenish that." I'm going to have three years of something and then do (inaudible) nitrogen fixer for two years. I don't know what that is, but that's my plan." And so you can have a very diversified plan without being very specific. It's going to be when this bill actually gets written and the rules get written, that's where these things really got to get drilled down. MR. RICHARDS: I appreciate that, Bill. And the comment you made, the comment about, "There's a pasture, is really pasture?" I was actually called in, and I think Lisa probably called you about it, it was rotational grazing, but the tax assessment said, "Well, there's no cattle here when I'm here, so it's not pasture." MR. MOORE: Yeah. MR. RICHARDS: And so we have inconsistency in how this is being assessed. I can see where a plan, if someone would go through the plan; then it's going come back to the detail of coming out of the tax office that we have expertise in the areas as what we're trying to do. And so, that's going to be one of those devil in the detail that you're talking about there, Bill. Page 11 FC -23 November 19, 2019 MR. MOORE: And it's going to be you know, I have this. I am going to be using this as part of a larger rotation. So if you don't have there, you have a phone number to call. "Okay, where are your cattle?" "Okay, they're over here." "Okay, you are rotating, that is part of your plan." So it's much easier verification than trying to drive out there, you know, once a year and look. MR. RICHARDS: Right. MR. MOORE: But it becomes really hard, and that's part of it. You know, the lack of ability to get on site to inspect is a problem, so how do we fix that? So that becomes all of the implementation elements that need to get thought through, above my pay grade. MR. RICHARDS: I do like you're going for one characterization of grazing lands of pasture land, because on a good year it's great and on a bad year it's worse than bad. MR. MOORE: Yeah. MR. RICHARDS: And so having an appeal process, that just creates a lot of work and probably we're going to end up losing money on the long end of it. So, I do like that. I also like the fact that you're recognizing, if we're going to do rotational from livestock to, like you said, the papaya, and then back to papaya, how do we characterize that? I know is it in production or not, because technically it's in fallow, so is that production? MR. MOORE: Yeah. MR. RICHARDS: And again, that's come back to the tax office. I like the direction; I figured I probably would. But I have concerns, especially about the small farmer. MR. MOORE: Yeah, yeah. MR. RICHARDS: And I still need to give that some more thought. MR. MOORE: Yeah, and you know, I think that's something that again, we look at the different ag plans. You know, how do we you know, because we have the same concerns. How do you get people to actually submit the paper? You know, how do you get to the office and actually sign something? It was part of the discussion. Again, we are not looking Ph.D. thesis here. It's where we're discussing. And again, I think as that comes in, I think the examples, when the bills come in and the rules come in, they have examples, which would be great. You know, "Here is an example of a farm plan." You know, copy it. That's one thing I love about government, there's no plagiarism. So, that's how I make my living, is copying things. Here's farm plan. If it's similar to what you're doing, Page 12 FC -23 November 19, 2019 copy it. Xerox and put your name on it. So do how do we make it work? As long as it's for real. MR. RICHARDS: I appreciate that. I'm going to yield to my colleagues. But that may be something as we go through this, maybe there is a form that people can fill out that is their plan. You know, very simple. It's already formatted, and they can just fill out very quickly as far as the general plan for what it's going forward. MR. MOORE: Yeah, I'm going to reiterate what Riley said, and it's in the report. But the group as a whole was agreeable to continue on, kind of an as -needed basis. We've got some history after two years of this. So if the department wants to use us as the bill writing goes on, we've all agreed to participate. One hundred percent of the committee members agreed to continue and provide input on an informal basis. So hopefully, at least with there's some expertise or some experience. I won't say expertise, some experience, can continue. MR. RICHARDS: I appreciate that, Bill. I'm going to yield, Chair. Thank you. MR. SMITH: Tim, can I add one thing? MR. RICHARDS: Sure. MR. SMITH: Just my perspective on the ag industry. When I first moved to Hawaii Island and I used to work for one of the larger ranchers up in South Kohala, you know, I met the cowboys and went I ask them, "Oh, Monday through Friday you're on a horse, what do you do on weekends? Do you surf, you go hunt?" "Oh no, no, no, I go help my friends brand." MR. RICHARDS: Right. MR. SMITH: And it's like, so Monday through Friday you're on a horse; Saturday -Sunday, you're on a horse. You know, I got to learn, it was really a lifestyle choice. And then, one of the things we discussed in the meeting is how do you make, like half -acre, one -acre homesite and ag use? And then as I got to know a lot of these cowboys, you would see that they would have one or two horses that would be behind their house, so that when they got up at four in the morning they could throw it in their trailer and they could go to work. They're doing that seven days a week, and maybe they've got 10 horses and the others are on a bigger pasture. But I felt that there is a use for small agricultural plots when it's used in conjunction with other remote larger pieces of agriculture. And you see that in Waimea and a lot of different areas. So, I just wanted to throw that out. Page 13 FC -23 November 19, 2019 MR. MOORE: And that was a specific discussion we had, the ten -acre minimum lot size for the non -dedicated now. Can you consolidate that? Can you have half acre here, two acres here, and the answer is "absolutely." That's why you have a farm plan. So, you're not looking at it individually. You can look at it as "Okay, I'm licensing here. I got an agreement over here. I got something here. I'm using them all, and I go from place to place. I got 13 acres." Great, you meet the minimum requirements. So that was part of our specific discussion that we've had, on how this should work. Now the art is going to be making sure that actually works that way. MR. RICHARDS: I appreciate that, because reading through, that's where my angst was coming from. And it does make sense, because we know cowboys that you have a couple of horses at home just because. And it's truly dedicated to agriculture, it just happens to be smaller and you're removed from your pasture. Again, I want to yield to my colleagues. Appreciate it, Bill. Thanks, Riley. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Riley, Bill, thanks for being here. I'm going to shift gears a little bit, away from ag, and specifically talk to Item No. 3, the Repeal of the Solar Water Heater Tax Credit. I wanted you guys to kind of go a little bit—to get a little bit of a deeper dive into that. Because from what I understand, that's being repealed. Or that's the suggestion, right? But currently we're going through some code revisions as it relates to the IECC, which is our International Energy Code. I get the solar or photovoltaic, especially on new construction, but within that particular code, it's also for gas. So I'm not clear on how this would work as it fits into that code revision or if we have to take an even better or deeper look into how, if we choose to amend the IECC, if it fits into our Real Property Tax Code. MR. MOORE: Again, this one is beyond, you know, one of the areas that I'm not that familiar with. The key information that I've got out of this, and Lisa or Jaime or Riley, but the County right now does not value include the solar systems as part of the building value. So if we give them a tax credit, they're actually getting a double windfall. I mean, there's a cost there but there are no tax impacts to that. So where is the balance in that? You know, you're already getting the benefit from the lower rates. The County is not gettingI mean, if the County got an increased valuation from that and then a credit against that, that may make some sense. But right now there is no increased valuation based on that. It's as if you don't have that, from a tax standpoint. So that's where we you know, we were comfortable, I think, in this recommendation based on that. Again, if they start including the value of that solar system as part of your assessment, different things that we need to look at. MS. LEE LOY: Because I'm looking at a particular section, and it looks like that was used as a carrot, right, to encourage Page 14 FC -23 November 19, 2019 MR. MOORE: At one time, yeah. At one time, yep. MS. LEE LOY: —the solar, like to get people off of the energy part, right? MR. MOORE: Yep. MR. MOORE: And incentivize the carrot so that they would move over to solar. But now we're seeing that, since 2008 MR. MOORE: You "shall" do it. MS. LEE LOY: Got it. MR. MOORE: Yeah. MS. LEE LOY: With the IECC. Okay, I just wanted to understand that better. Because from what I understand, Corporation Counsel is going to be moving forward an ordinance for us, Lisa, is that accurate? (Note: At this time, Real Property Tax Administrator Lisa Miura came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. MIURA: Lisa Miura, Real Property Tax Administrator. So the Corporation Counsel already did create the ordinance and the changes. It was submitted to administration, for repealing the solar water heater tax credit and the non -spec residential, as well. MS. LEE LOY: And so, Lisa, will those two pieced come together as two separate stand-alone bills because they're? Got it. MS. MIURA: Correct, they'll come in separately. MS. LEE LOY: Okay, great. Thank you, Chair. That was my only question. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? Mr. Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder in Hilo, do you have any questions before we wrap this up? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I don't have any questions. I think just clarifying that—reading this communication in a boiler communication doesn't mean that we will be passing all of these suggestions, they are just suggestions. Some of the public seemed convinced that we were raising taxes today. I just wanted to clarify to some people that we aren't raising taxes today, and that these were the working group's ideas. This is an interesting blend of people who made them. I appreciate the work. I have my own questions, but I think those Page 15 FC -23 November 19, 2019 questions would be better suited as we see these individual's suggestions come forward as legislation. That's my only comment. CHR. DAVID: Great comment, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, and thank you for making that very clear. Save some emails tomorrow. Anyway, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I don't have any question. I just wanted to echo what Matt said, really. I wanted to make a comment about the make-up of this group. I mean, it really is a top -notched group. You know, thoughtful individuals from a broad range of experiences. So thank you very much. That's all I had to say. Because we'll just wait until these things come before us from the administration for more property vetting. MR. MOORE: And just for the record, I think the commitment of the group to continue on is that we recognize it. This is actually the start of a process. Whether the administration initiates the bills or the Council initiates the bills, it's start of a process. And it's not going to get there until the rules are adopted, as well. There's a lot to go on, and we're willing to participate. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Okay, Mr. Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: Just a follow-up. Thanks, Chair. Lisa, this is probably directed for you. Matt, by the way, thank you; yes for pointing out this is just informational. There's no legislative process coming forward. But to the legislative process. We're talking about a lot of code changes here, are we going to see like one big bill, or is this going to be a whole bunch of them? What's the process there? MS. MIURA: Well, I do believe today was a little bit of a pulse -check, as well. I mean, when every time budget comes around, we notice we always get hit pretty hard about our ag programs and what we're doing to enforce all of the programs we currently have, and how we can take care of that before administrations asks for more money. So that was one part of why the group was created. The second part of it is it could come from administration. It could also come from County Council. So in one of our prior recommendations that the Review Group had, Council Member Kanuha brought forward one of the bills himself because it wasn't coming from administration, either timely or there were other reasons for it. So if you don't see action, I guess it's not that it has to come from administration. I know with the Board of Review, which has submitted a lot of final reports themselves, felt like it had to come from County Council, and some people thought it was coming from administration, so it doesn't have to. It's a recommendation from this group, that was really created out of Council—many years of Council saying, "Hey, we want to see some changes. Where's the recommendations? Who's reviewing your work?" Page 16 FC -23 November 19, 2019 But the last thing I know this group wants to see, is after two years having another report sitting on a shelf. County's known for that, right? I mean, government is famous to pay for plans. This wasn't paid for, but it was paid through a lot of people's time, and volunteer time, and they put their name behind it. And so while it was an extreme amount of work for the Tax Office, I think it was really needed for the public to have a way that when they complained, it went to somebody rather than just to me or the Finance Director. The Review Group saw every single complaint that came in and made recommendations on how our office could improve communication, and that's things that weren't really included in this final report. That we worked really hard on trying to do; whether it was informing people on the website and things that our office could convey better, whether it was customer service or how we approach people or taking a class on grass that was four days long. We took all of their suggestions and worked on it because we felt like they were giving up their time. And I was really shocked that they saw this through to the end because, I mean, I thought through half of it we'd lose a lot of the group. The first six months was spent really learning about the program because this tax code, you know, it can be really confusing, and it's very different form county to county. But, they did stick to it. The bottom-line is it doesn't have to come from administration. You will not see them, I imagine, coming through in one bill because it would be too much. You know, with Council you can do so many changes to one thing. I could see ag coming through together because it is pretty comprehensive, but I wouldn't see the rest coming through at the same time. MR. MOORE: While we're at it, I just want to acknowledge the staff. Lisa was great, but it's not just Lisa. Keita Jo and Brandon Cain were awesome. But I really want to recognize Crystallene Pacheco. These were the minutes that she transcribed and typed up, and it is robust, the substance in here. But the amount of staff time committed to this, that's in support of this, was really, really appreciated. Anything we asked for, we got, and we got it on a timely fashion. So, we really appreciate the effort. CHR. DAVID: Well, thank you very much. Council Members, we're done? Well, I'd like to say I can't thank everyone enough for what you folks have done. Over two years' worth, that's a Council term, if you ask me. You folks have done an awesome job. And Director Miura, thank you so much for coordinating this and making this work very successfully. So, kudos to you folks. And mahalo for being here. MR. MOORE: Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Council Members all those in favor of filing Communication 90.1 please say "aye." Page 17 FC -23 Vote on Comm. 90.1 Filed Comm. 614 Motion to Close File November 19, 2019 The motion to close file on Comm. 90.1 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mahalo for being here. Mr. Clerk, please move on to Communication 614, please. 2018-2019 ANNUAL REPORT FROM THE KAILUA VILLAGE BUSINESS IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT From Jane Clement, President of the Kailua Village Business Improvement District. Ms. Villegas moved to close file on Comm. 614. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter. (Note: At this time, Jane Clement and Ross Wilson, representing the Kailua Village Business Improvement District, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. DAVID: And I'd like to thank Ms. Clement and Mr. Wilson for being here. They are here for questions, Council Members, so I will open the floor up for questions. Ms. Villegas, go ahead. MS. VILLEGAS: Alright, I'll go ahead and start. I have the privilege, this area, the Kailua Village Improvement District, being in District 7, which is part of my responsibility as the County Council person for that district. I want to thank Ross and Jane for being here and for your report. I'm hopeful that the rest of the members of this body have had an opportunity to look through the communication. I guess, kind of for background, some of this was stimulated by an article in the newspaper with some questions that were addressed, and some statements made, and some concerns expressed. So I'm really grateful that you guys responded so quickly, and then the realization that some of the annual reports weren't being followed up on as quickly, that those are now being submitted. I have some more specific questions related to those, but at first I just wanted to give you guys a minute to touch on any points because the general public doesn't really have this communication in front of them, I believe. It's a lengthy report. I know that both Page 18 FC -23 November 19, 2019 of you in your testimony provided some great insights into all the work that the Business Improvement District does, but I kind of just wanted to you give you another a chance to touch on that before I kind of dug down on some of the questions. Provide some opportunities for you to answer some of the issues that were brought up in that article. MR. ROSS: We're happy to answer any questions. Please understand that every year the Kailua Village Business Improvement District does annual meeting, and you were at the last annual meeting it's publicized to all of the district members, so they get a direct mail piece inviting them to attend. It's not generally publicized for the general public, but it's for the people that are paying into the district. The article brought light to a lot of things that we all need to do a little better. One of the things that we're going to do better is better outreach into the district itself. What we do well is we communicate well with the landowners. They get all of the information. And what the article brought to light was that a lot of people in the village that work in the village don't necessarily get the same information. So as part of our outreach, the Block by Block security people and the bid folks, we're going to door-to-door; we're going take the information about who the bid is, what the bid is doing, what Block by Block is doing, and do that within the village. You know, sort of acting like a political process, where you guys go door-to-door. So get the information into the hands of the people that are working there, and that's one of the takeaways from that article. The other takeaway is all of us need to do a better job. I mean, all of us in looking at how we find solutions with the homeless issue. We've met with you and others, Council Member, and had a lot of meetings since then, on collaborating with the Police Department and others in finding solutions so that we can start to peel away the process. The homeless issue has gotten bigger, contrary to some of the numbers that—the anecdotal numbers we've seen. You know, we're looking at both short-term and long-term solutions to try and make sure that we can be part of the solution here, but not only in the village but in our community. And as you have questions, than we can get into the details what we've done. But, thank you. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you so much, Ross. I appreciate that. So I'll just jump right into it. One the big things that got brought up in the article was the fact that the BID, and I'll just refer to it as the BID (Business Improvement District) instead of KVBID (Kailua Village Business Improvement District), one of the other big questions was brought up was the contract with Block by Block and utilizing kind of an out-of-state agency to do the management of our Business Improvement District. So I just wanted to ask a quick question and give you an opportunity to answer to answer why that decision was made. Page 19 FC -23 November 19, 2019 MR. ROSS: So Block by Block was selected by the Kailua Village Business Improvement District's Board of Directors because of their national expertise in servicing business improvement districts. They were selected in, I believe, 2015. There was increased efficiency in putting the landscaping janitorial and security services in one contract. It's important to remember that services are meant not to replace county services but to enhance the services that the county provides. Block by Block services 100 bids nationwide, including Kailua Village and Waikiki Business Improvement Districts. MS. VILLEGAS: Great, thank you. I appreciate that. And another question well, one of the basically, just the money amount that was brought up in the article stated that they were—we spent about half a million a year in Block by Block. So we had the opportunity to sit and talk about how that breaks down and where those monies are spent. And having had a number of constituents and business owners express their challenges, not all of them with a bid, but frustrations. I mean, we've all had them, and it's a very hot topic, and weighs heavily on a lot of our hearts, the challenges with the homeless population. The chronic homeless that impact directly our businesses in the Improvement Districts. So if you could kind over some of that for me, I think that would be really helpful. MS. CLEMENT: Council Member Villegas, I had asked Ross to compile all of this information on behalf of the BID, so if you don't hear me talking a lot, it's because we have designated Ross to do the reporting. MS. VILLEGAS: Good job, Jane. MR. ROSS: I talk too much. MS. VILLEGAS: Wise move, Jane. MR. ROSS: Let me address the homeless first. It's not the mission of the Kailua Village Business Improvement District to solve the homeless issue, but collaboration with government and other nonprofit agencies is the pathway to seek solution to these community issues. Unfortunately, the homeless problem will continue to grow. We all need to do more to combat poverty and provide needed services on Hawaii Island, including housing options, mental health, drug, and alcohol treatment programs. I'm here to tell you that Kailua Village Business Improvement District is doing its part. We are increasing the security patrols, and they will now run from 7:00 a.m. in the morning to 11:00 p.m. at night. Block by Block is redesigning their uniforms to be more visible. We put together a small ad hoc Street People Solutions Committee, to come up with short-term solutions to the homeless issue, and Alii Drive and Pawai Place are the two focused areas. Page 20 FC -23 November 19, 2019 On Pawai Place, the Street People Solutions Committee worked on relandscaping the entrance to The Friendly Place with boaters to discourage the campsite. And the committee recently met with the Department of Health and is advocating for mental health, drug and alcohol treatment facility, with stabilization bids at the former judiciary site in Kealakekua. We also changed the built environment in many places. We trimmed up the trees. We added rocks and boulders to areas where the homeless congregate. We continue to collaborate with the Hawaii County Police Department. We recently met with the Police Chief and the Deputy Police Chief, and I'm happy to report a renewed commitment including a community police officer assigned to Kailua Village. I think it's important to stress that the Hawaii County Police Department has been diligent in their efforts to rid the village of the criminal element, and the BID is supportive and thankful for their efforts. You asked questions about the budget. The BID's annual budget to Block by Block for the safety ambassadors or security, cleaning ambassadors, landscape crew, administration, and the operations manager, is $586,000 and some change. And I'm happy to break in any of that down for you if you need that information. I'm happy to share it. MS. VILLEGAS: Thanks so much, Ross. I appreciate that. This seems like a poignant opportunity for not only me but our community to kind of get a re -up and to be reminded of all that the bid does do. I just want to personally thank both of you, because as we have been navigating, a lot of the challenges with the opportunities associated with—as a community working together collaboratively. As much as it's challenging sometimes to have a light shown on us for the things that aren't quite where we would like to have them be, I really want to thank you for taking that opportunity to turn it into growth, and communication and connection, and for myself to be able to get more involved; also the Police Department and our community policing officers, the Department Health. I just want to recognize the synchronicity here, but also the lack of ego, and the opportunity to take a look at what works and keep doing that, but if something's not working, you guys have really embraced changing that paradigm and connecting with the people and the powers that be, and really looking to serve our businesses better and making sure that those dollars goes as far as they can. So I want to thank you for that. And I'll yield to any other members of our Council. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. MS. CLEMENT: May I add something to that? CHR. DAVID: Go ahead. Since the article, we have been very pleased with the forward progress that we've made. As Ross mentioned earlier, we have been meeting with a lot of people. We've met with the police, Assistant Chief Wagner, Page 21 FC -23 November 19, 2019 who's been very responsive and have listened to our concerns. We've spoken to the DOH (Department of Health) and are working towards getting facilities available for our street people, at the Old Courthouse. I just really wanted to thank the community for the positive response. Since that article, we've made a concerted effort to reach out to people, and the response have been very positive. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Jane. Appreciate you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Ms. Eoff, go ahead. MS. EOFF: Thank you. Yes, and to follow up on this sentiment, I completely agree. And itactually shows us—I'd like to thank Laura too, from West Hawaii Today, it shows us sometimes the positive outcomes of reporting. Our newspaper can help provide that into our community, that collaborative approach that you guys are helping us to follow through with. So I look forward to seeing all of these improvements. That we now have a little bit more impetus and oomph to carry out. I remember when this business improvement district was created, Maile and I worked for Councilman Pilago at that time, and there was a lot of time and energy that got put into this being the first business improvement district on this island. I think the second in the State. So it has a lot of merit to provide this kind of income to a group like yours, to focus on a place that's so important, as an economic driver for our community. And also, I just reread Exhibit A, which I don't even looking at the ordinance kind of the other day, after the newspaper article came out, but I had some today to look closer at the exhibit. Well, if you read that, I know it's what you strive for. But the way that they break down, or whoever put this all together, you folks can break down the two segments, which is the security; who are ambassadors of aloha, and can represent that in every aspect as you make improvements, you know, as far as uniforms and outreach; but also, the—what do they call, the landscape team, which is the Clean Sweep Crew. MR. ROSS: The landscape and janitorial crew, they do a fabulous job. You know, when you look at what's there today, it's hard to remember what wasn't there 10 years ago. When the people told the visitors to turn left and not go into town. So, they do a great job. They are there to enhance and not replace County services. The BID has had three presidents or chairs, Eric von Platen Luder started it out; Riley Smith, who was here, was the second Chair; and Jane is the third. You know the organization is run by volunteers that are committed to this area. The BID wouldn't be here without all of their expertise. But I really want to Page 22 FC -23 November 19, 2019 emphasize, the BID wouldn't be here if the County wasn't totally behind it. County Finance really, really worked it to make it happen, number one, in the beginning; and today, it's Real Property Tax Division working with the bid on an ongoing basis. It's all for public good. MS. EOFF: I think if we face the problem areas, as we are starting to do now, we really will be able to revitalize the village, because you folks do a great job in bringing events, and your aesthetic for signage and all of that is awesome. And I think these areas where we have the problems, like you said, they're problems nationwide, they're not just our problem, but we have this tool to kind of get a handle on it. And by working with the Police who have now, I think, expressed their willingness to help more, also. We'll keep working on that. MS. CLEMENT: Thank you. MS. EOFF: I think we have a chance to revitalize the village and make it a wonderful place. MR. ROSS. The issues we're dealing with, with street people, the homeless are issues, is that all of you Council people are dealing with in your districts. So it's incumbent upon all of us to work together. We all need help with ordinances, dealing with panhandling and loitering. And I'd really like to stress, you know, moving forward, we really need to support the Hawaii County Police Department. They need more resources to do their job in all of the communities that you represent. They have a tough job. MS. CLEMENT: And I would like to add that we cannot arrest our way out of these problems. It takes a village. And this is such a tremendous issue that requires it's very complex, and it requires all of us to work together. MS. EOFF: Well, thank you, and we look forward to getting more timely updates, your yearly updates for the Council. Thank you. MS. CLEMENT: Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eof£ Anyone else? Seeing none, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I didn't hear you, so I am assuming no comments. Thank you. Alright, Council Members, all those in favor of filing Communication 614 please say "aye." Page 23 FC -23 November 19, 2019 Vote on Comm. 614: The motion to close file on Comm. 614 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: And right now, Council Members, I need to go to Hilo. We have the Police Department, that was very patient in waiting for these three resolutions to come up. And I think I want to take Resolution 403, because Captain Wana, I believe, needs to leave at 5:00 o'clock. So let's do that one first. Change Order of As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, Business: the following items were taken out of order: Res. 403-19: AUTHORIZES THE OFFICE OF THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE OF HAWAII, PURSUANT TO HAWAII REVISED STATUTES 46-7, FOR A GRANT TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT Accepts funds of $10 million from the State of Hawaii to reimburse the County for overtime costs, supplies, equipment, and other expenses incurred by the Department in response to the protest activities related to the construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope on the summit of Mauna Kea. Reference: Comm. 605 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Villegas moved to recommend adoption of Res. 403-19. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR. DAVID: Captain Wana? MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, Maile, Chair. CHR. DAVID: Yes? MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: They're not here for Resolution 403. You're here for? Resolution 402. CHR. DAVID: I'm sorry, 402. Page 24 FC -23 Motion to Table November 19, 2019 MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Resolution 402. CHR. DAVID: Can we table this one then, Mr. Clerk? MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Lee Loy moved to table Res. 403-19 to the end of the agenda. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, can you do Resolution 402 then? Res. 402-19: AUTHORIZES THE OFFICE OF THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, OFFICE OF JUSTICE PROGRAMS, PURSUANT TO HAWAII REVISED STATUTES SECTION 46-7, FOR A GRANT TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT Funds in the amount of $76,444 would be used be used by the Police Department to purchase a shooting simulator for its training program. Reference: Comm. 604 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Villegas moved to recommend adoption of Res. 402-19. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. (Note: At this time, Police Captain Aimee Wana came forward to address the members of the Committee. CHR. DAVID: Captain Wana, thank you so much for your patience, and you can go ahead and give us a brief rundown of the grant. MS. WANA: Hi. Good afternoon. CHR. DAVID: Aloha. Page 25 FC -23 November 19, 2019 MS. WANA: So this JAG (Justice Assistance Grant), we're seeking to purchase a shooting simulator, and this will provide our officers opportunity, both brand new officers as well as our incumbent officers, to do training and participate in exercises. Currently, we have to use a lot of imagination and mats to create or simulate a buildings, so we have to borrow buildings. This equipment will allow us to conduct those trainings with more technologically advanced advantages as well as providing various scenarios for our personnel without the risk of death or injury. CHR. DAVID: Thank you so much. Council Members, any discussion on this? Seeing none, all those in favor please say "aye." Vote on Res. 402-19: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 402-19 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Captain Wana, you are also here for one more? CAPTAIN WANA: No, Captain Esteban is here. CHR. DAVID: 401, okay. MS. WANA: Yes. CHR. DAVID: Okay, perfect. And why don't we take 401 then. Thank you very much. CAPTAIN WANA: Thank you. Page 26 FC -23 November 19, 2019 Res. 401-19: AUTHORIZES THE ACCEPTANCE OF A DONATION OF FUNDS TO BE USED BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT TOWARDS TRAVEL AND OTHER EXPENSES TO ATTEND THE ADVANCED HOMICIDE/VIOLENT CRIME INVESTIGATOR COURSE Accepts a monetary donation of approximately $2,500 from the International Homicide Investigators Association. Reference: Comm. 602 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend adoption of Res. 401-19. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. (Note: At this time, Police Captain Gregory Esteban came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. DAVID: Captain Esteban, thank you so much for your patience. Would you please give us a really brief rundown of this donation? CAPTAIN ESTEBAN: I'll be very brief. In addition to my position with the Hawaii Police Department, I had the privilege of serving on the International Homicide Investigators Association (IHIA). I am currently the president of the association, and our primary mission is to provide training and investigative resources to law enforcement agencies around the world. The payoff for our department is that I've brought the two basic homicide courses to the Big Island, one in 2016 and one in 2018, with the intention of bringing additional training to our law enforcement personnel in Hawaii. These funds are used to pay for my travel expenses, which is covered by the IHIA. CHR. DAVID: Thank you so much for your service, Captain. And also, I'd like to thank the Homicide Investigators Association for their generous donation. If Council Members have any other questions? Seeing none, all those in favor please say "aye." Page 27 FC -23 November 19, 2019 Vote on Res. 401-19: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 401-19 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David – 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Captain Esteban, for being so patient. MR. ESTEBAN: Mahalo. CHR. DAVID: Mahalo. Okay, Mr. Clerk, I think we can move back to the top of the agenda. Not top, but—yep. Return to Order of The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of Business. RI16necc- ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. (Items in this category were taken up previously, out of order.) Res. 383-19: AWARDS A PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL RESOURCES PRESERVATION MAINTENANCE STEWARDSHIP GRANT TO NA MAMO O KAWA Approves a grant of $97,315 to Na Mamo O Kawa, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, to protect, preserve, and restore the Kawa properties in Ka`u, pursuant to Section 10-16 of the Hawaii County Charter. Reference: Comm. 582 Intr. by: Ms. David Motion to Approve: Mr. Richards moved to recommend adoption of Res. 383-19. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. DAVID: Alright, if it's okay with my Council Members, I would really like to thank Na Mamo O Kawa for all of their hard work, dedication, and their commitment to managing and malama `aina. And ask for your support for these wonderful people. Mahalo. Alright, all those in favor please say "aye." Page 28 FC -23 Vote on Res. 383-19 (Approved) The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 383-19 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Alright, Mr. Clerk, Resolution 384. November 19, 2019 Res. 384-19: AWARDS A PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL RESOURCES PRESERVATION MAINTENANCE STEWARDSHIP GRANT TO HO `OMALU KA `U Approves a grant of $24,250 to Ho`omalu Ka`u, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, to protect, preserve, and restore the Kahua Olohu, Kaunamano, property in Ka`u, pursuant to Section 10-16 of the Hawaii County Charter. Reference: Comm. 583 Intr. by: Ms. David Motion to Approve: Ms. Poindexter moved to recommend adoption of Res. 384-19. Seconded by Ms. Villegas. CHR. DAVID: And ditto again. Mahalo, Mr. Fox, and for all you folks do in malama-ing our `aina. And I ask for your support, Council Members. Anyone else? Seeing none, all those in favor please say "aye." Vote on Res. 384-19: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 384-19 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mahalo for being here you folks. Okay, next Resolution 385, Mr. Clerk. Page 29 FC -23 November 19, 2019 Res. 385-19: AWARDS A PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL RESOURCES PRESERVATION MAINTENANCE STEWARDSHIP GRANT TO KOHANAIKI `OHANA Approves a grant of $21,680 to Kohanaiki `Ohana, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, to protect, preserve, and restore the `O`oma Beach property in North Kona, pursuant to Section 10-16 of the Hawaii County Charter. Reference: Comm. 584 Intr. by: Ms. Eoff Motion to Approve: Ms. Eoff moved to recommend adoption of Res. 385-19. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR. DAVID: Ms. Eoff, go ahead. MS. EOFF: Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to say thank you to Mason for providing us some updated pictures today. For such a young guy being willing to oversee this project, just to have the commitment that he has to taking care of the land the reef, so mahalo to him and to all of the crew that helps him, and the volunteers and the students that have been participating. Hopefully, whenever you guys have a chance to go down to `O`oma, you should check out the beach. It's such a beautiful piece of property that shows how the Open Space Fund really works for us, and for our community to have that resource. So I ask for your support. CHR. DAVID: Mahalo, Ms. Eoff. Anyone else? Seeing none, all those in favor please say "aye. Vote on Res. 385-19: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 385-19 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Resolution 389. Page 30 FC -23 November 19, 2019 Res. 389-19: AWARDS A PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL RESOURCES PRESERVATION MAINTENANCE STEWARDSHIP GRANT TO POHAHA I KA LANI Approves a grant of $32,000 to Pohaha I Ka Lani, a 501I(3) nonprofit organization, to protect, preserve, and restore the Waipi`o Valley Lookout property in Hamakua, pursuant to Section 10-16 of the Hawaii County Charter. Motion to Approve Vote on Res. 389-19 (Approved) BILLS FOR ORDINANCES Reference: Comm. 588 Intr. by: Ms. Poindexter Ms. Poindexter moved to recommend adoption of Res. 389-19. Seconded by Ms. Villegas. CHR. DAVID: Ms. Poindexter, go ahead. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, I just wanted to thank Pohaha I Ka Lani and Jessie and Kolea Potter who gathers the community on a regular basis to malama our `aina. They've done a great job, and they will continue to do a great job. So, I just ask for your support. Thank you CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing none, all those in favor please say "aye." The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 389-19 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, can we please jump down to Bill 113 first before we go? MR. HENRICKS: Sure. Yes. The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Bills for Ordinances. Page 31 FC -23 November 19, 2019 Bill 113: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 19-73, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30. 2020 Increases revenues in the Federal Grants — State Homeland Security Program account ($164,500); and appropriates the same to the State Homeland Security Program Fiscal Year 2019 account, bringing the total appropriation to $764,500. Funds would be used to support efforts to prevent, protect and respond to incidents, threats, and hazards within the context of terrorism. Reference: Comm. 603 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Villegas moved to recommend passage of Bill 113 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz. CHR. DAVID: And I believe Mr. Hansen is he still in our? Mr. Hansen, thank you for your patience and coming to the table. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Hansen left. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: Yeah, we're kind of under a weather advisory, so our Civil Defense guys had to the EOC (Emergency Operation Center). CHR. DAVID: Okay, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Director. MS. SAKO: No, it's fine. But they did fill me in. And so we are very fortunate to get additional grant funding on top of the $600,000 that we normally get, so the money will be split between Police, Fire, and Civil Defense. It will go for things like increasing our IT (Information Technology) or computer connections, being able to identify hazardous materials better, and also working on the EOC, or Emergency Operation Center, at the West Hawaii Civic Center. CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much, Director Sako, for that. Any questions, Council Members? Seeing none, alright, all those in favor please say "aye." Page 32 FC -23 Vote on Bill 113 (Approved) Vote to Motion to Remove from Table (Approved) November 19, 2019 The motion to recommend passage of Bill 113 on first reading was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David – 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Ms. Lee Loy moved to remove Resolution 403-19 from the table. Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David – 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Let me see—alright. Before II know I can't call anyone up for this, but before I call on you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I assume you wanted to speak on this, but I information from Chief Ferreira that he is out of—he's on Oahu today. When I asked him if there someone else that could actually be present for questions, he said that he would be the only one. If we'd like to proceed, I think Director Sako is here if we'd like to ask Director questions. What's your preference? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Maile, after looking over this resolution, the majority of my questions, although Deanna can help us, she's very helpful, I really feel like the Chief and someone from the Mayor's Office should be here to help us understand what's in front of us, as well as someone from Corporation Counsel. I'd like to have all of those people at the same time so we can actually understand what's here, understand the implications of it, and where we're headed as a body if we okay it. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Okay, I'm going to Ms. Poindexter right now. MS. POINDEXTER: Oh, I thought he was going to—Matt was going to call up—are you calling up Deanna to ask her a few questions? No? Okay. I was just going to say, I know you know, receiving—we're on the $10 million, right, grant that we're receiving? It's great to receive money, but what we've got Page 33 FC -23 November 19, 2019 to remember, that money is actually coming out of our own pockets because this is you know, it's funny. It's being awarded to us, but it's taken out of every taxpayer's pocket. So we're putting that $10 million and now we accepting it back. Because to me, it's a poor decisions by the State and by the County government. Mauna Kea is the most peaceful place on this island right now, and I think—or in the State, maybe even in the world. So to be up there, is to me a waste. Not a waste, but it's poor management of time. Because we have people dying on our highways, I mean, in the last week, in a matter of, what is it, two days, we had deaths, one in Hamakua and one in Kona on some major thoroughfares, which is known to be a racetrack for a lot of people. So if we want to concentrate our time where it should be concentrated, instead of taking our $10 million out of our pocket to give it back to us, go spend time on those roadways, and let's save lives. I think it will be worth more. I mean, we've had accidents all over the place in the last seven days, I think. It's just unfortunate that there's a lot of things happening in communities because we're not paying attention to the areas that need attention. So, I'll vote to accept this, of course, because we need this but yet we're paying for them. It's crazy. But anyway, I just wanted to state that for the record. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. You know, like Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I would love to have that discussion with the Chief of Police, and as he mentioned, you know, members of the administration. In light of the time, and if the rest of the body is so willing, I'd actually like to move to postpone or carry this over to another meeting. That would give the administration the time to be here. Like Val said, we're going to take the money. We're not going to leave it on the table. It's our money, right? It's our taxpayer's money. But we need to have that discussion because I'm seeing some HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) that needs to be evaluated a little bit. And yeah, if that's okay with Mr. Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Are you making a motion? MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I'll be making that motion postpone Resolution 403 to our December 3rd meeting. Is that correct, Clerk? Motion to Postpone: Ms. Lee Loy moved to postpone Res. 403-19 to December 3, 2019. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz CHR. DAVID: Any discussion on the postponement? Seeing none Page 34 FC -23 November 19, 2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I whole-heartedly agree with that postponement. They should be here to describe what's going to happen. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Alright, all those in favor please say "aye." Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Res. 403-19 to December 3, 2019, was to Postpone: carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Alright, Mr. Clerk, this is a companion bill to Resolution 402. Bill 114, please. Bill 114: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 19-73, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30, 2020 Appropriates revenues in the Federal Grants — Local Justice Assistance Grant (JAG) Program account ($76,444); and appropriates the same to the Local JAG Program account. Funds would be used by the Police Department to purchase a shooting simulator for its training program. Reference: Comm. 604 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Vote on Bill 114: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend passage of Bill 114 (Approved) on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Page 35 FC -23 November 19, 2019 Bill 115: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 19-73, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE 30, 2020 Appropriates revenues in the State Grants — Mauna Kea Costs account ($10 million); and appropriates the same to the Mauna Kea Costs account. Funds from the State of Hawaii would be used to reimburse the County for overtime costs, supplies, equipment, and other expenses incurred by the Police Department in response to the protest activities related to the construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope on the summit of Mauna Kea. Motion to Approve Vote on Motion to Postpone: Reference: Comm. 605 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Ms. Poindexter moved to recommend passage of Bill 115 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. DAVID: Ms. Poindexter, go ahead with your question. MS. POINDEXTER: We didn't accept the $10 million, we cannot appropriate it, yeah? CHR. DAVID: Now can now motion to postpone. We have to. The motion to postpone Bill 115 to December 3, 2019, was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Page 36 FC -23 November 19, 2019 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 5:07 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mahalo everyone. Thank you. Approved: Finance Committee MD/na Ad, —i7-;2.or7 (Date) Page 37