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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2019/11/05 2018-2020 Committee on Finance 22nd Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii November 5, 2019 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at ORDER: 11:35 a.m. in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Maile David, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Maile David, Chair Ms. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Karen Eoff, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member (came in later) Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Jerry Warren: Comm. 535, in opposition. Keoni Fox: Comm. 535, comment. (representing Ho`omalu Ka`u) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, can we take out of order our appointee, the nomination of Justin Bradford Lee? Communication 547, please. Thank you. Change order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the of Business: following items were taken out of order: FC-22 November 5,2019 Comm. 547: NOMINATION OF JUSTIN BRADFORD LEE TO THE PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL RESOURCES PRESERCATION COMMISSION From Mayor Harry Kim, dated October 18, 2019, submitting for the Council's review and confirmation the above nomination. Vote on Comm. 547: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend confirmation of the (Approved) appointment of Mr. Justin Bradford Lee to the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Commission. Seconded by Ms. Villegas and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David–9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Rose Bautista came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. Chair David informed Mr. Lee that he does not need to appear at the Council meeting for the final confirmation of his appointment. Recess: At 11:55 a.m., the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:57 a.m. CHR. DAVID: Okay, Council Members. I'm taking the Finance Committee out of recess. Mr. Clerk, we will move to the presentation on Communication 557 since we have our guests from Oahu. Comm. 557: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION ON OPENGOV; A GOVERNMENTAL BUDGETING, PERFORMANCE, COMMUNICATIONS, AND REPORTING SOFTWARE From Council Member Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, dated October 16, 2019. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 557. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter. CHR. DAVID: I believe Mr. Richards should be right back. But this is his communication if somebody—there he is. You can go ahead. The presentation for OpenGov. Thank you, Mr. Richards. Page 2 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. RICHARDS: I heard Mars was in retrograde. Okay. Well anyway, thank you. We like to have fun here at County Council. OpenGov., why don't we have presentation come up before this. And this is something that we've been looking at. I think it probably goes back, Val, at least to HSAC (Hawai`i State Association of Counties). But previous to that, because we were exposed to that NACo (National Association of Counties). Yeah, that's right. Back at NACo. So with that, I know we have a presentation. I appreciate you being here. So let's talk story and go from there. Because I know we're going to have questions when we get done. So with that, you're on deck. CHR. DAVID: Please identify yourself first for the record. (Note: At this time, Paul Felton, Account Manager; Caitlin Steele, Vice President of Product Management; and Mike Matson, Vice President of Sales; all from OpenGov, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. FELTON: Thank you. My name is Paul Felton. I'm an Account Manager at OpenGov. MS. STEELE: And I'm Caitlin Steele. I'm the Vice President of Product Management at OpenGov. MR. FELTON: We also have back, Mike Matson, our Vice President of Sales to answer the really tough questions if and when you have any. We'll try to keep it under an hour. I know we budgeted an hour. But we'll tighten it up for you guys. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. (Note: At this time, Mr. Felton and Ms. Steele provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 557.1.) MS. STEELE: So superfast, hopefully that gave you kind of an overview of all the products in our suite, and we're happy to answer any questions that might have. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Steele and Mr. Felton. Council Members? Go ahead, Mr. Richards. Page 3 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thank you, Chair. And thank you very much for coming and talking story about this. Chair, if it's okay what I'm going to do is throw out a couple of questions to try and lead a conversation on this? CHR. DAVID: Sure. MR. RICHARDS: Because I think that may answer a bunch of questions for the Council. First of all, and Paul weigh in on this too, the data source as I understand, I think we had a conversation on this—and don't answer, because like I said I've got a couple questions it'll probably all roll into one. First of all, let's start with clients within our state. I know Kauai is, City and County of Oahu; what about Maui? MR. FELTON: Maui not yet. They are looking to purchase. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. MR. FELTON: And the State of Hawaii. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, and the State. And we talked about the data source, are we talking about tying our finances into this and so it feeds automatically into this. This doesn't actually go into our finances, this takes information out of our finances so we're not breaching the integrity of the data source. Is that correct? MS. STEELE: That is correct. We work with your IT (Information Technology) to pull reports essentially out of your financial system. It is all secured and encrypted, both at rest and during transmission. So there's a hefty amount of security around it to ensure that. And we only pull data out, we do not push data back in. MR. RICHARDS: Okay, which comes to the next portion of the budgetary process. This pulls data out of our accounting and feeds it into the reporting. But then we can use that for budgeting that we have to go back in and plug back in to our data. Is that correct? MS. STEELE: That is correct. So generally most accounting systems have the ability to do a budget upload. And that can be done both through journal entry upload, or through a direct like a trial balance import back into those systems. And so, our system will produce the report to enable that. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And since you said this is web-based, are we talking that the data storage is there by cloud-based somewhere and it's on other servers with backups et cetera, et cetera? MS. STEELE: Yes, absolutely. So this is hosted by Amazon web services and we avail ourselves of their backup and security at the core layer. Page 4 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And then when you talked about being an administrator or a super administrator, talk to me about that, or us about that. MS. STEELE: So everything that I can do in the application, your Super Administrators will be able to do in the application. The system is designed that we teach you to use it. One of our project managers like to say, "Hey, we're going to teach you to drive the car. But then we'll give you the keys." We're always available for support. And we do have folks like Paul who would be an account manager, who would be here and available at any time for additional and ongoing support. That's included in the contract. You know, if you have questions and want to collaborate with the other Counties for example, he can facilitate a lot of that. But everything I can do, you can do in the application. And then as the Super Administrator you also give rights to others within your organization. So there is a security layer that is managed by you all as to who has rights to do what. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Alright, and then probably the ultimate, the end stage, is a fact that this puts our finances out because it's open government, right? So the public can access. And then we played with it a little bit. You can kind of create your own reports or your own MS. STEELE: We call it a view, yes, which is a particular look at a report. You do a little bit of analysis and you can save that analysis essentially, and come back to it with refresh data. MR. RICHARDS: As a constituent looking at the budgetary stuff on the website or whatever? MS. STEELE: A constituent cannot save their own view. They can download that data and save it that way. But as the County administration team who would be using this would save common views. So we see this frequently used for FOIL (Freedom of Information Law) requests. That way you have common FOIL requests, they simply save a view, and then an FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)page with all of those views saved. Depending on the amount of access you give an external user depends on how far into the details they can go. You know, it's possible to go all the way down to a payroll file which, you know, we generally don't recommend. But you can stop that a summary level. That's all dependent on your security policies and decisions about data sharing. We just enable that and give you easy tools to do that. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And then finally, the data updating, is that real time or is that daily? Page 5 FC-22 November 5,2019 MS. STEELE: Generally it's daily. What we find is that financial information is typically batched. And so, usually the end of a day is an appropriate time to capture a batch and real time data can sometimes be very misleading. So generally we batch it at a daily and then at a monthly level as well so that we make sure that we kind of capture all the final transactions that happen for accounting. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. With that I'm going to yield, Chair. I think this is something Council Woman Poindexter and I were kind of intrigued by because we were looking at this stuff So anyway, I'll yield. Because I like the fact that it's essentially real time, day to day real time. It's very open to the public. They can see where their money is going. And it seems pretty user friendly because I could navigate it pretty well. So with that, I'll yield. Thanks. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Mr. Chung, and then I'm going to go to Ms. Eoff. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. I mean, you know, as you can imagine we could ask you a hundred or more questions today, right? Now is not the time or that place to do that. And, you know, I thank you for coming. And obviously on its face this is a wonderful tool. And the fact that you have on board, Kauai County as well as City and County, you know, it validates the integrity of the program. Obviously this is not something that is just coming up and, you know, being introduced to us. But I think at some point you're going to have discussions with our Finance Department and perhaps, you know, another presentation to us. But, you know, right now it was a great primer introduction to what you have to offer. And I thank you for that. You know, from a broad standpoint it really addresses a number of things that we're trying to advance here of course, right? Measurables, performance based, and transparency. So with that, thank you very much and look forward to--oh, how much is this going to cost? MR. FELTON: As you said, it's going to take more multiple conversations and I think really what it comes down to is scoping the project and what we're actually going to be delivering. But as a range I would say it could be anywhere from about—whereas a SAAS (Software As A Service) based, so it's a subscription service. So it could be anywhere from approximately about a $100,000 and $250,000 a year, with a one-time deployment fee of about $100,000 to $150,000. MR. CHUNG: Wow. That's doable. But anyway, we shall discuss this more. And why don't you go and talk to our Finance people. Okay. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Eoff Page 6 FC-22 November 5,2019 MS. EOFF: Well, Mr. Chung just asked a few of the questions that I had in mind. But, you know, today in this day and age of people kind of demanding more transparency, it seems like this is timely for us to consider. I was wondering, do you think our County is prepared like we have enough retrievable data and systems that can handle adding this? MS. STEELE: Yes, absolutely. So we run anything from very small governments. Much smaller than this one here. We have a very small county in California. It's only an $80 million a year annual budget. And, you know, her story was that she went in and she was able to recalculate her workforce costs and she found $1 million in her budget. It was material, right? MS. EOFF: Even though there may be a cost associated, it seems like it could even save money for efficiency measures as we learn how to use it. MS. STEELE: Absolutely. MR. FELTON: And we're familiar with your accounting system and we—Tyler- Eden (Tyler Technologies' Eden Support) I believe, and we integrate. We have hundreds of Tyler customers so we're very familiar with those types of systems. MS. EOFF: Okay. Just one more question. Say all the counties in the State came on board, can we then share information across the county? MS. STEELE: Yes, you can. MS. EOFF: Okay. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eoff Ms. Poindexter, go ahead. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. Aloha and thank you. And yes, we did have them do a presentation to Deanna. So is it okay if I ask Deanna if you could come up for a little bit? I just wanted to ask some questions on your thoughts. (Note: At this time, Director of Finance Deanna S. Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: Before you ask, I'm just going to stop you right now because I don't want to violate any procurement rules. We do not have an RFP (Request for Proposal) out there yet, we have not discovered expenses are MS. POINDEXTER: I'm not asking those questions. MS. SAKO: I know. But I just want to be very cautious as to the rest of how this conversation goes. Page 7 FC-22 November 5,2019 MS. POINDEXTER: Right. Right. So the question I have is, is our current system obsolete or are we because we use a certain program, correct? MS. SAKO: So we do. And we do want to upgrade it at some point. And that would offer us the internet availability to do portals, you know, with the public or with even our own employees. MS. POINDEXTER: So we will be looking in to—so great. So thank you, Council Member Richards for starting the conversation for us to start looking into the possibility since we know now that our system is ready to, I mean, expire because it's obsolete or it has expired. I don't know if they had that case. So we heard that from Deanna. And she was able to sit and listen to this presentation and at that point she had said, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you would be looking into, you know, all these different systems and all. So thank you for bringing them forward for this presentation so that the public and all of the different departments could listen in on this since it's being live streamed, or can look back on it to see what the, you know, good things that this system can do. So thank you for bringing this forward. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. If you listen closely to my chest you can hear my heart sing right now. This stuff really gets me excited, the budgeting for outcomes, the performance measurements, the multi-year CIP (Capital Improvement Project Budget)planning, and having space for citizens to engage and really start building a participatory budget. I'm curious to know, because you said that Kauai uses this system—and that's actually how I found out about you was going on their website and playing around with their dashboard and asking my staff, "Hey, let's set a meeting with OpenGov because this looks phenomenal." And so, how many folks within Kauai County is trained up to use this system? MR. FELTON: At conservatively at least a half dozen. It's maintained by one administrator and then I don't track a lot of the stuff. But then a lot of the reports that he's creating internally are then shared with other users. So I would have to look. But there's a couple of administrators and there's probably a dozen or a couple dozen users who are using the system to look at, you know, track data. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. I was just curious. Because I certainly don't want any type of system like this to be a burden on our staff We have staff doing so many different things. And so I want to make sure any type of system actually relieves some pressure and burden that they're under. Page 8 FC-22 November 5,2019 I don't know if you're familiar with the fact that we've just transitioned our website over to a company named Granicus. And so, I wonder if your system would be able to feed into that website service? Because I saw a lot of features that looked as if you have like your own website platform. MS. STEELE: Generally our system is the end-stop for data, not a pass-through like that would be. So typically what you find is that the data that was getting sent to Granicus might also be sent to OpenGov for different purposes. But however, budget information would be something that could be shared back to another system like that, absolutely. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. That's helpful. Off the top of your head, are you able to share with me any cities that are employing a budgeting for outcomes-type model? MS. STEELE: Quite a few. Martin County, Florida would be one. There's a couple of counties in California. MR. FELTON: Suffolk County, New York. MS. STEELE: Suffolk County, New York. We can absolutely provide you with a list. Off the top of my head, no. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: No. That's perfect. I just want to check out their system and see the kind of measureables and outcomes they've articulated and what exactly they're using to measure how they get there, and how we can start to position our budget to implement a lot of the strategies and plans that we have in place. A lot of times we just have things written on paper that sit on the shelf. And so, it would be nice if we can start to just align everything better. The plans and the financial resources, the personnel, so we're all working in concert to get things done efficiently and in a way that is transparent and accountable for the public. The last question I have—and thank you. Excellent overview presentation. And thank you, Paul, for chatting with my staff and giving them a really detailed overview of how this works. You know, I represent a district that was recently inundated with lava. I think Christine (Kahikina) shared that with you. And so, with recovery comes a slew of initiatives. And we have access to a number of different funding pots that all have different restrictions on them. So I'm wondering if you've had experiences managing these type of efforts. MS. STEELE: So I think the closest ones is a lot of measures, special measures, where there are restricted funds available, and that's one of the benefits of the stories product is enabling you to put that context around it. Often the public does not understand the restrictions. And so, our stories project would allow you to Page 9 FC-22 November 5,2019 explain that and show where the funds were going and also even provide, you know, access to have you apply for relief funds or something like that. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. I'm just curious. Maybe I'll look at Martin County. Florida seems to have a lot of hurricanes that hit it. So it might have different initiatives where it's kind of had a special portal dedicated to tracking funds related to disaster relief and recovery. That's all I had. Thanks, you guys. MR. FELTON: Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Like Ms. Kierkiewicz, her heart is singing. I'm dry teeth smiling because the smile on my face is permanent and my teeth are dry. I have a slew of questions. But I'm going to be very cautious being mindful of what our Finance Director did share. And maybe some high level questions. You know, the question was asked, you know, what size county. And you mentioned one county that was about an $80 million budget. So my question is, what size would you consider Hawaii County compared to the ones that you mentioned for budgeting for outcomes between Florida and New York? And I can imagine those are large. MS. STEELE: Those are very large. Yes. So I think we generally break counties down by the size of their operating budget. When we look at them, our pricing is all based on the size of your operating budget. You know, at half a billion, you're a medium sized county for us. We see much smaller and much larger, obviously. But many comparable counties across the country. Martin County is probably a great example. MS. LEE LOY: I had one question that I was very curious about, which was some of the customization part of that and the workforce, how you could click on "workforce" and see what the cost associated with them was. Was there a way to customize one of the sheets as it relates to fees? For example, we have grass cutters, right, and their salary and wages and equipment costs tie to that. But we also rent out our pavilions. And so I was wondering if there was a way to customize as bargaining unit costs go up, that we could somehow reflect the need to increase our park user fees, or what that would look like so we could close the gap. Just kind of high level. Because there's a number of other departments that collect fees and often times our fees don't line up with the actual cost and care for particular facilities. MS. STEELE: Our system doesn't automatically do that. We provide the savings in clerical time generally for the budget folks, you know, take them out of cutting and pasting across documents and manipulating excel files, manipulating systems so that they spend their time on the analysis piece. And we do provide the reporting tools that would allow you to compare those trends and that sort of stuff Page 10 FC-22 November 5,2019 and make decisions on them. But we don't actually do any recommendations or anything like that. MS. LEE LOY: It goes back to you get what you pay for, right? And so, that helps with budgeting for outcomes and deliverables, right? A lot of people want nice clean parks but it comes at a cost. So just kind of managing that. I'm going to put a pin in this. But maybe for Deanna, I have a lot of questions. And being very mindful of what a procurement or an RFP or even an RFI (Request for Information) might look like later on. If it's okay I would love to submit some of the questions I have to you, so that in the future when an RFI or an RFP is developed, some of those considerations are made. Because I think this is a wonderful conversation, but we're trying to standup EnerGov which was a building permit, GIS, Real Property. And we're running into a ton of problems and the customizations that had to go with that. And the timeline is failing. It really is. It was supposed to be done over a year ago and we still haven't unpacked or stood that up in a manner that we wanted to. And a lot of that has to do with training and people's ability to train on the system, grasp what it can do. And that's a people problem which walks back to the training for these people. Because let's face it, we have wonderful things in Hawaii County but our biggest asset are our employees. And they're going to need that training. So with that, Mr. Richards, thank you for bringing this forward. Ms. Poindexter, I really appreciate this coming forward and the excitement, you know, that other counties are standing this up. But I am mindful on something we're also trying to do. And it's just not working the way we thought it would. So maybe some of the lessons learned there that we could actually integrate into a future request. With that, Chair, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Mahalo, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? I don't see any other lights. Ms. Steele and Mr. Felton and Mike Matson, thank you very much for that presentation. And, Mr. Richards, thank you for bringing this forward. And, Ms. Poindexter, I think you certainly opened our eyes and our minds that there's something out there that could probably really benefit. So definitely room for more conversations on this. So with that, Council Members, all those in favor of filing Communication 557, please say "aye." Page 11 FC-22 November 5,2019 Vote on Comm. 557: The motion to close file on Comm. 557 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David–9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Council Members, we are approaching our 1:30 p.m. Committee. But I would like to take at least Communication 535. We have the Director of Parks and Rees and we have the members of the maintenance and the nonprofits here, if that's okay with everyone? And then we'll decide what we're going to do. Whether we're going to run right through it or—yeah, eat and run, okay. So Mr. Clerk, could you please, Communication 535. Comm. 535: DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION'S EVALUATION OF APPLICATIONS FOR 2019 STEWARDSHIP GRANTS FOR COUNTY LANDS ACQUIRED THROUGH THE PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL RESOURCES PRESERCATION FUND From Parks and Recreation Director Roxcie L. Waltjen, dated October 1, 2019, presenting four applications for funds to maintain various parcels, as submitted by: • Ho`omalu Ka`u; Kahua Olohu (Ka`u) Funds requested: $24,250 • Na Mamo O Kawa; Kawa(Ka`u Funds requested: $97,467 • Kohanaiki `Ohana; `O`oma Beach (North Kona) Funds requested: $21,680 • Pohaha I Ka Lani; Waipi`o Valley Lookout (Hamakua) Funds requested: $32,000 and Comm. 535.1: From Parks and Recreation Director Roxcie L. Waltjen, dated October 17, 2019, transmitting three revised applications with updated recommendations. Motion to Close File: Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 535. Seconded by Ms. Eof£ (Note: At this time, Parks and Recreation Director Roxcie L. Waltjen came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 12 FC-22 November 5,2019 CHR. DAVID: Director Waltjen, thank you so much for your patience and as well as the nonprofit members here. So could you just give us a real brief summary of the applications and their approvals? MS. WALTJEN: Roxcie Waltjen, Director of Parks and Recreation. All the proposals are wonderful proposals. They all work towards keeping and preserving our land for future generations and doing it the in the right way, the pono way. The only things I have as far as adjustments that I would've recommended were those that dealt with food or food items. And that is because of our Procurement Code within the regulations of our County Charter. But other than that they're great proposals. And I thank all the groups that we have who work with us so diligently to preserve our native lands. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you so much, Director. And ditto to that. We appreciate all that they do and your department for overseeing these guys. Ms. Eoff, go ahead. MS. EOFF: Okay. Thank you. And thank you, Roxcie, for providing the adjustment suggestions and allowing the nonprofits to amend their budgets so that they're all good to go. I know all of us agree that this is an integral part of the whole program for us gathering up open spaces, being able to somehow help have community support help maintain these lands. And the groups are just sort of new. I mean everybody's getting started. And so like Keoni said, and others, it may be just their second year of funding but you need several years in a row for even to see some results. So it's a lot of hard work. And, you know, I really commend the people who have taken on some of this responsibility because not only finding volunteers but, you know,just working with all the different things that are involved to make sure your project can be successful. It's more of a long term commitment. So, thank you. And this is just to file a communication, so I guess different Council Members will be bringing forward the actual resolutions to transfer those funds to the nonprofit in order for them to finish this grant cycle process, right? MS. WALTJEN: Mahalo. MS. EOFF: Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Eof£ Anyone else? No. Well, I just want to say also, mahalo to our nonprofit stewards of our PONC (Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resource Commission) lands because without your dedication and commitment this program wouldn't work. So mahalo goes out to you folks, all of you folks. Alright, Council Members, all those in favor of filing Communication 535 and all related communications please say "aye." Page 13 FC-22 November 5,2019 Vote on Comm. 535: The motion to close file on Comms. 535 and 535.1 Filed was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Director. MS. WALTJEN: Mahalo. CHR. DAVID: Okay, Council Members, what's your pleasure? Just go through it? Let's take it from the top, Mr. Clerk. Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business. of Business: Comm. 10.24: REPORT OF CHANGE ORDERS AUTHORIZED: SEPTEMBER 16 —30, 2019 From Finance Director Deanna Sako, dated October 2, 2019, transmitting the above report pursuant to Hawaii County Code Section 2-12.3. Motion to Close File: Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 10.24. Seconded by Ms. Eof£ CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I have a question for you. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna S. Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: Good afternoon. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Hello, Ma'am. The last one on the list, "9/30/2019, Exercising Option 3 Year of Collection, Hauling and Processing of Recyclable Materials" increased by 81 percent bring it to a total of$3.1 million. Just wondering, what we are moving that's recyclable? Because we've limited our recyclable content. MS. SAKO: So DEM (Department of Environmental Management)probably can better answer your questions. But, you know, the recycling market has changed so they did meet with the vendor and agreed to kind of a new scale. I know Page 14 FC-22 November 5,2019 they're still taking corrugated cardboard, glass, you know, the cans, things like that, both the metal vegetable cans or—you know, soda cans are still being redeemed at HI-5, things like that. So they're still doing quite a bit. But definitely the number of items are being reduced. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So we should see a reduction in what we're paying? MS. SAKO: I was not at the meeting when they discussed it with the vendor. But, yes, it's normally based on the quantities that, you know, they haul. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is anyone from DEM here? Nope, Bill left already. Okay, I'll reach out to Bill. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, can I just share with my Puna Council Member colleague, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder? CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Because I reached out to George Hayducsko. He was listed as the point of contact for this, and I copied the Director, and he did say that the extension does reflect a lower amount because of less things being collected. What's being collected now is cardboard, brown paper, and glass. Things like number 1-2 plastic, newspaper, office paper, are no longer being collected because of change in the market. So I asked Mr. Kucharski if he could just kind of elaborate when he comes forward today. But just wanted to share information that I got from them. I yield. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Alright, any other questions? Okay, all those in favor of filing Communication 10.24 please say "aye." Page 15 FC-22 November 5,2019 Vote on Comm. 10.24: The motion to close file on Comm. 10.24 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Communication 10.25. Comm. 10.25: REPORT OF CHANGE ORDERS AUTHORIZED: OCTOBER 1 — 15, 2019 From Finance Director Deanna Sako, dated October 17, 2019, transmitting the above report pursuant to Hawaii County Code Section 2-12.3. Vote on Comm. 10.25: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 10.25. Seconded Filed by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Communication 11.17. Comm. 11.17: REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: OCTOBER 1 — 15, 2019 From Controller Kay Oshiro, dated October 16, 2019 Vote on Comm. 11.17: Ms. Eoff moved to close file on Comm. 11.17. Seconded by Filed Ms. Villegas and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Communication 57.3. Page 16 FC-22 November 5,2019 Comm. 57.3: FIRST QUARTER CLAIMS REPORT: JULY 1 –SEPTEMBER 30, 2019 From Claims Investigator/Adjustor Clifford D. Victorine III, dated October 3, 2019, transmitting the above report pursuant to Section 2-9 of the Hawaii County Code. Vote on Comm. 57.3: Mr. Richards moved to close file on Comm. 57.3. Seconded Filed by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David–9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Communication 62.4. Comm. 62.4: FIRST QUARTER REPRT OF PERSONS EMPLOYED UNDER A CONTRACT FOR LESS THAN 90 DAYS: JULY 1 –SEPTEMBER 30, 2019 From Human Resources Director William V. Brilhante, Jr., dated October 7, 2019, transmitting the above report pursuant to Section 2-12.5 of the Hawaii County Code. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 62.4. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter. CHR. DAVID: And Director, I see lights on. Thank you, Director Brilhante, for your patience and waiting all morning—most of the morning. And I think we have some questions from Council Members. Alright, Mr. Richards first then. Alright. (Note: At this time, Human Resources Director William V. Brilhante, Jr. came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Bill, for being here. I didn't want you to come to the party without at least going to the dance once, right? Concerning these contracts, generally speaking, help my memory here. Is this consistent with the number of 89-day contracts that we're running for the last year and a half or so, or is this an increase? MR. BRILHANTE: William Brilhante, Director of Department of Human Resources. In response to your question, Councilman Richards, it's a fairly average amount of contracts. We have 89-day contracts. You know, we carry about this same number throughout the year and it's generally for various reasons, Page 17 FC-22 November 5,2019 you know, specific to a particular item that needs to be addressed. And that's why they're only for 89-days. MR. RICHARDS: And with our lava event last year did we see a little bit of a spike? Again, we're talking about fiscal management over all of the County and just seeing—we're looking at everything all of the time. Did we see a little bit of a spike with that or are we pretty consistent? MR. BRILHANTE: You know, it's hard for me to say without going back and actually looking at it, you know, refreshing my memory. If that's something you'd like me to do I'd be more than happy to do it and then, you know, respond to you directly. MR. RICHARDS: Yes. If you could do that please and then just share the findings. Maybe total 89-day contract expenditures for say the last two fiscal years. Something like that. Just, again, more information for the County. And good information allows us to make good decisions. Chair, with that I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Director Brilhante, I wanted to mahalo you because the last time we received one of these, we just had names, contract duration, and monthly salary. And so, I wanted a bit more context wanting to know the department that they were assigned to. And you actually upped me and included the services they performed. So I wanted to acknowledge that and thank you. This is really helpful I think as we get into budgeting season, which I think Deanna has already formally kicked off It's good to know what departments are needing the extra support. And it's very clear to me on this list that there is a lot that's being done allocated to assist our Prosecuting Attorney's Office. Which makes a lot of sense because we did create 45 new positions for the Police Department. I'm not sure if you might be able to share with us if the monies that are being used for these contracts are being pulled from our current budget or if some of these are with some grant monies, or it might be a mix? MR. BRILHANTE: You know, first, I can't take any credit. You know, I just requested from my staff—and I have such an awesome staff that they went through and they came up and they revised the submittal and they did all this work just to make me look good, which they usually do. So I appreciate that. I appreciate my staff. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Shout out to your staff Thank you. Page 18 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. BRILHANTE: Thanks. As to the question regarding the finances, that's something I would have to defer to the Finance Director. You know, when we go through this procedure from the HR (Human Resources)perspective, the finance component of it is not something that's really open and up front with us. Finance is the one who makes that final determination as to, you know, where the funds are coming from, are there funds available? That's not something that really comes under our purview. You know, we generally look at, you know, what's the work being performed, is it being performed under the guides and under the requirements of the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) and so forth. And that's what we look at. So the finance component would have to be through Finance. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. I don't want to put you on the spot, Deanna. Okay. Thank you. I'm just curious. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna S. Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: So some of the ones on the list definitely are grants. The SAKI (Sexual Assault Kit Initiative) ones are. I'm not positive on name, but this particular emergency like Project Assistant an Inspector. But we are getting some temporary staff also because of like Hurricane Lane and some of the damages and the repairs needing to be made. So Public Works does need some extra help on those. So you probably will be seeing a few more than we have in the past. And so we're hopeful that FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) will be assisting us with those costs as well. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Excellent. Thank you so much. And so, Director Brilhante, I hate to trouble your staff But if maybe they could make a not if some of these contactors are to support recovery as a result of the eruption or even Hurricane Lane. MR. BRILHANTE: Okay. Yeah, that's something we can definitely do MS. KIERKIEWICZ: If it's not too much work. MR. BRILHANTE: No. Not at all. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And then I noticed it's a lot shorter than our last list that we received because I think at that point and time we were just coming off of the summer. And so, there are a number of hires within Parks and Rec to do like Summer Fun and just keep our public spaces open with a lot of activities for keiki and kupuna. MR. BRILHANTE: You are absolutely correct. As well as we get a lot of student hires and things like that. Page 19 FC-22 November 5,2019 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes. MR. BRILHANTE: Over the summer. So yeah, you're correct. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Director Brilhante. And thank you, Director Sako. Appreciate it. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Anyone else? Seeing none, thank you, Director, for being here and your patience again. All those in favor of filing Communication 62.4 please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 62.4: The motion to close file on Comm. 62.4 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, can we move to Communication 369.10? Comm. 369.10: REQUESTS AN UPDATE BY THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT REGARDING EXPENSES RELATED TO THE ACTIVITY ON MAUNA KEA From Council Member Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, dated October 15, 2019. Motion to Close File: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to close file on Comm. 369.10. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter. CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, Deanna, nice to see you again. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako returned to the table to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: It's always nice to see you guys. And it's not evening this time so I appreciate it even more. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I know I was actually MS. SAKO: It's still daylight. Thanks. Page 20 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I was laughing. I saw the original agenda and I was like, wow, I might see you before 6:30 p.m. today. But we are running late again. Hi Chief, how are you going? You can come up too. I have questions for you. Thank you for coming. I appreciate it, both of you. (Note: At this time, Chief of Police Paul Ferreira came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So I watched the last meeting and just kind of caught myself up on where we are, where we have been, and questions I've asked before. We'll just jump right in so I don't waste any time. For the inter-departmental agreement between the two chiefs, I spoke to Joe Kamelamela last week. And questions areI'm looking for the Counsel opinion on that on whether or not two chiefs can sign into an agreement without Counsel oversight or Clerk-Council oversight, or Mayoral oversight. And I'm wondering if we found out it was paid or not by the AG (Attorney General) Office and whether or not that was an okay move to do. So this may be a question for Joe, this may be a question for Chief, I'm not sure. MS. SAKO: I was just going to answer the part that we did not directly pay County of Maui. I believe they submitted all of their costs to the AG's Office. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay. So the agreement that we had that was signed between the two chiefs, between yourself and Maui County? CHIEF FERREIRA: Paul Ferreira, Police Chief. Yes. It is a normal agreement that we go into to satisfy the requirements of 52-D and I believe 72 of the HRS. It's not so much our agreement to reimburse the counties for their expenditures but an agreement to go into allowing them to send personnel to the Hawaii County and under my authority to give them police powers, to exercise police powers in Hawaii County because they have no jurisdiction here. The same as I have no jurisdiction on the neighbor islands. So any time we go into these agreements—and it's a common agreement that we go into, we've been going into it for years. If you go way back when to when, I think everybody remembers Green Harvest. That was one of the most used times when these agreements were used, where we would agree to the county stating that we would recover whatever costs they have outside of salaries and wages because under the HRS we cannot pay for salaries and wages, direct salaries and wages. Anything we did overtime, things of that nature we can, whatever equipment they needed, if we had to buy any equipment for them, we would. But again, so normally an agreement we go into chief to chief is without Council oversight or without Mayoral oversight. It's not so much to do with finances. It's more to do with the operational aspect of it. Page 21 FC-22 November 5,2019 As far as the reimbursements to Maui County and Honolulu City and County, they were both sitting at the table with the Attorney General's Office, all with the understanding with us that the Attorney General was recovering their costs. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay so, we heard that. We had a document come from Maui County with your signature and the Chief's signature stating that Maui County would be reimbursed by Hawaii County. And there was a point in which the Attorney General's Office stated that we would be running point and that we'd also be reimbursing the other counties as well. And then there was a shift somewhere down the line. My concern is that agreement was signed by you both. And there was a line on the bottom for the Maui Corporation Counsel to sign, except there was no signature. And then as Aaron brought up in the past meeting, October 1st, we were wondering if there had to be Mayoral oversight on that agreement or not. And that's why I reached out to Joe. Hi Joe. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KAMELAMELA: Good Afternoon. Joe Kamelamela, Corporation Counsel. Welcome Chair and the members of the County Council. Anyway, I had an opportunity to read the statute that had been referred to. The way that the statute is written, you know, it doesn't kind of provide an outline as to specifically what has to be in the agreement. Because when I first saw the agreement, you know, I was wondering one, whether that statute really addresses the formality of the contract; and then two—well actually I had three questions. The second question was, you know, whether there was a need in certain kind of agreements with the police to actually have us sign because I know that there are situations, for example, sometimes they bring undercover officers and so there's a need for secrecy and also there's a need to get things done quickly. So if we had more eyes looking at those kind of agreements, like the Mayor and Finance Director, you know, that could hamper the investigation. The third question I had with respect to disagreement between Maui and our County is whether it's moot because we have a situation, which has just been clarified, that it was the AG's (Attorney General's) that had reimbursed Maui and Honolulu for the cost. So yes, there is the agreement but I can't see that there's any violation under the statute nor under our Charter. And I'm talking about Section 13-13. So that is respect to just the question on the agreement that was presented to us was it last month? Anyway so, if you have any other questions on that one, I can answer it. Page 22 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So I read the statute. And it talks about ascending in receiving agency. I can see the need during an emergency, a fire, we'd need more personnel, agreed. But I think what I'm getting at is, moot point or not, because it was reimbursed by another party is there still was an agreement, and usually there's an oversight there. But there was no oversight here. That's what I'm getting at. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah. So what I can do is kind of look at to see if, you know, I can talk to the Police Chief later to kind of see if there's something to really do a little bit different. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Or I'm just wondering, is it required? MR. KAMELAMELA: I don't think so given all the information that I've seen so far and the research that I've done. Because I have to look at HRS. And then I was also thinking of other scenarios where I wouldn't want to see certain agreements until later. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. In this case, this wasn't a secret. There was no secret about transferring police. I mean, it was on Facebook. People who do the vans are going back and forth. And we knew where the people were headed. And so, I don't think there was a secrecy involved there. If it was, it wasn't very secret. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah. But I think the point and time in which the agreement was made, but I didn't see the time, was prior to the emergency proclamation being done. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It was—actually the agreement was signed the day before the proclamation. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So it doesn't put it into the emergency proclamation time zone. So it's not free and clear, go ahead do whatever you want. MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah. But I think the focus is, you know, if you look at the statute and whether this particular agreement, you know, violated anything. And I really don't see anything but respect to disagreement. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: While I've got you up here, between the County of Hawaii and the State, where is the agreement? I can see there's a police says bill through the end of August for $3.7 million. But again, October 1st we talked about it. It was a week away. Fire Department has been reimbursed already. But for some reason State has yet to be able to fulfill an Page 23 FC-22 November 5,2019 agreement between the County and itself despite all its power of law and its attorneys at hand. MR. KAMELAMELA: Anyway it had took some time for our office to work with the Police Department and also with the AG's. I had opportunities to actually review a couple of versions of the agreement. And then, you know, I did have some questions on it. So I'm trying to think. So we had signed off on a final agreement. I think it went to the AG's already, who should have signed off hopefully by this week. I also know that—oh, okay, so they did sign off. I wasn't too sure whether they had signed off So the police had also invoiced the AG's too. So we're going to be expecting the money. I don't know when. CHIEF FERREIRA: Excuse me. The last communication with the Attorney General's yesterday was two weeks. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Two weeks until we get payment? CHIEF FERREIRA: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So everyone signed off at this point? CHIEF FERREIRA: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So we started July 16th. So almost three and a half months it took them to finalize an agreement to reimburse us for the majority of our costs. MR. KAMELAMELA: Well, I mean, it's not only them. But it's us looking at everything. And like I said I did have some questions. And the second command at AG's responded to questions I had about, you know, was maybe two to three weeks ago. And then once he had kind of responded to questions then I said, okay. And I said we should sign it. And then it got routed around to the different County departments last week. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is it normal to expect that kind of a delay? MR. KAMELAMELA: You know, each situation is different. I had a situation with HER (Hawaiian Earth Recycling, LLC) with kind of took me a long time to kind of finalize. And that's kind of unique. So this is something new, for me anyway. And I think, you know, I just want to make sure that whatever we needed and was supposed to get, you know, was part of the agreement as I understood it from the very beginning. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: When we receive this agreement, is it adopted by resolution? Page 24 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. KAMELAMELA: Well we have to do the resolution. So the plan is to do the resolution and to also do the ordinance to accept the revenues and put it into the budget. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And that would go back directly to the police salary and wages? MR. KAMELAMELA: Wait. I'm not too sure where that goes. MS. SAKO: We'll actually set it up as its own account and move the overtime that the Police and Fire Departments and others have incurred to that appropriation. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Are they covering all of our costs? That was a concern that was brought up last night. MS. SAKO: I believe it's police and fire only. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So we're on the hook for another almost $200,000? MS. SAKO: I believe so, yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow. That's nice of the State. Mahalo for that. Okay. Do we take into account retirement and the high three for the long-term cost that we'll be incurring as a County? MS. SAKO: We do take into account the retirement and the benefits MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm sorry, we do or we don't? MS. SAKO: We do. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We do. MS. SAKO: We take into account all the fringes at the current rate we're paying. We have not factored in spiking differential if that would apply. Unfortunately, it's hard to calculate those until after the employee leaves employment. So we just try to, you know, factor everything in. So the current percentage for police and fire is 36 percent for Employees Retirement System. So that is part of this. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So we had a testifier. I think his last name was Akionaif you could give me a little bit of whatever that is calledChair, can I have a little bit of MS. SAKO: Leeway. Page 25 FC-22 November 5,2019 CHR. DAVID: Yes you may. Latitude. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Latitude. Yeah. He said, "I'm all for our guys in blue making money and making a good paycheck. But as a County, we are going to be incurring a cost for a long time for some of the guys retiring in the next year to three years." So, you know,just as a thought I wondering if that was taken into account and if we are going to be asking for reimbursement for that as well from the state. MS. SAKO: So for right now we have asked for the current amount we're paying to ERS. And these events happen throughout the course of any officer's career whether it's emergency disaster, lava, Lane, you know, other things where our firefighters and police officers work overtime. So there's not a go way even when we ask for reimbursement from FEMA to calculate that because we don't get the bill till afterwards and it's based on an actuarial study. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's hard. So it puts our County kind of in a hard stop for years, actually. Okay. And whose decision was it to actually incur all this obligation, financial obligation? Who was that person who signed off on all this? Would that have just went straight to the Mayor or at each department? MS. SAKO: I believe the AG's Office asked both fire and police to be there. And they offered to reimburse. So that was setup up, up front. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And who's the sign off for that? I mean who is like the ultimate check and balance? MS. SAKO: Well ultimately the agreement was signed by the Mayor. But at that time I'm not sure who was all in on the meeting negotiations. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I yield for now. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thank you, Deanna. Thank you, Chief, for being here. Chief, have we reduced the number of officers on the mauna from October 1st to November 1't? CHIEF FERREIRA: Yes. MS. LEE LOY: And I'm asking that question because at our last report, October 1st, we were at $4.4 million. And today we're at $4.89 million, so $4.9 million. So that's a $500,000 increase. Just the month. I'm trying to capture it. How did we do that? Is it because we reduced the number of officers? Page 26 FC-22 November 5,2019 CHIEF FERREIRA: We scaled be the numbers considerably from the July event, as we saw fit, to bring down our numbers as well. MS. LEE LOY: Because there's been a lot of concern that so much of the manpower was being taken up the hill. And a lot of our local communities and Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder has been very bold about there's not enough officers in Puna. And so, have they been returned back to the district assignment? CHIEF FERREIRA: They've been returned back to the district. And the number of officers that are patrolling the beats are the same as they were before the protest and all through the protest. MS. LEE LOY: So we never saw a decrease in service? CHIEF FERREIRA: In the patrol staff, no. In other areas of the department, the specialized units, our criminal investigations section, our vice sections, our traffic enforcement unit, those areas. MS. LEE LOY: So as we moved staff around, Deanna, did we capture that? Because I'm assuming as manpower went up the hill, we were seeing more overtime and/or adjustments with holdovers, Chief, right? Early ins and holdovers. Did we account for that in our reimbursement? MS. SAKO: We did. MS. LEE LOY: And so that's all captured here in this spreadsheet? MS. SAKO: That's my understanding, yes. MS. LEE LOY: Great. I'm going to yield. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? Mr. Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just to follow up on Ms. Lee Loy's concern. And it was a concern that we had in the very beginning, which is there's no way to say if we're going to put 15, 20, maybe more officers on Mauna Kea that we won't see a direct impact throughout the rest of the island. Even though we're assured level of service would stay the same, I did get some emails from people in my district. I did attend a few neighborhood watch meetings where there was no CPO (Certified Protection Officer)present. And that was a concern for the community as well as for me because they're asking me why they're not there. When I have a paper that says we're not available as they're either on duty or they're on Mauna Kea. So that was a direct example of this. But as a very valid Page 27 FC-22 November 5,2019 concern is if they're there and we're covering, we're going to have a higher overtime cost in the rest of the district. And if I was to get deeper into that I'd look at the next, or upcoming communications which says your overtime report—and I was looking at that before we got into this session. And there's some large expenditures already. And that's going to come up next. But different matter. So I'll just check and make sure I got everything. So we've been asking for an itemized detailed list of all the expenditures for Mauna Kea from each department. And we get a nice summary. I think Ashley asked first and then we asked afterwards, but have yet to get that detailed list of by department expenditures. Not so much a summary. But we asked October 1st I asked in the meetings before that. MS. SAKO: I'm sorry. I must've misunderstood. Because I didn't have it on my to do list. But yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. You actually wrote it down. MS. SAKO: I probably did. But there's been a few other things going on too. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I get that. We all got a lot on our plate. But I think it would clarify for us exactly what each department put out there. The Mayor spend $141,000 on his side of it, which we're not getting reimbursed for. Civil Defense, $30,000. Civil Defense was up there. I saw their trucks, I saw their vans, I saw their personnel. The Mayor being an appointed official, I don't understand why he has $140,000 worth of expenditures that we're not going to get reimbursed for. So I'd just like to see a little bit more MS. SAKO: It's actually for the traffic signals. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Traffic signals. That's good. Those are good. And then finally—so yeah, if you could please get that to us so we can actually look at what each department put in and where. That would be wonderful. And I forgot what I was going to say. I yield. Thank you. Oh, you know, I'll ask the Chief. Chief, sorry. My request is if we can really pull back what we're doing there. I know we're there for public safety concerns. I've been to the mountain a few times since everything really was very hot. We have 100 to 200 people within the Mauna Kea access road area. But the bathroom at Gilbert Kahele State Park, and having a lot of presence there from our officers I think is unnecessary at this point. So if we could, I'm urging you, verbally, to pull back what we're doing there as the necessity of it I think is just not necessary. Page 28 FC-22 November 5,2019 And we are getting complaints from all over the district. As Aaron said, both sides of the fence. And if it's really about the safety of those on Mauna Kea access road, that closed DLNR (State Department of Land and Natural Resources) road, that's not our jurisdiction. Then maybe put a few officers right there. But to patrol that stretch of highway with more officers than I have in my entire district. I think CHIEF FERREIRA: That's not accurate. But go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well I have eight officers in Puna, correct? CHIEF FERREIRA: You have 50 something officers MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But on patrol. CHIEF FERREIRA: You have eight officers on patrol. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I've noticed days there where I've counted 12, 14 officers. Maybe not in the last two weeks. But previous to this. CHIEF FERREIRA: Not for some time. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That's good. That is good news. CHIEF FERREIRA: Because you may see officers patrolling the area, they may not necessarily be assigned to the Mauna Kea area. They may be coming from outside districts because South Kohala and South Hilo will still patrol the Saddle Road as well. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. CHIEF FERREIRA: And for every argument that I get to get those officers off the road because they're interfering with traffic, I get arguments saying thank God they're there because when you drive the Saddle Road now, nobody's flying past you at 90 miles an hour. It's not like you're standing still at 60 miles an hour. So I hear both sides of the argument. I listen to both sides every single day. I go out on weekends, I hear it in the supermarket. Just like you, I hear it all the time. And I get arguments from both sides. I get people telling me that I should be fired because I'm not getting them off of the mountain. I get people telling me thank you for not getting them off the mountain. So I understand where you're coming from. I hear what you're saying. And I look at it in totality. Are we needed there? Yes. Should we be there? I'm not for TMT (Thirty Meter Telescope) or against TMT. I have no position in it. I'm there because we are law enforcement. And we're supporting the State law enforcement in their operation up there. Page 29 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So like I said, I appreciate that. And I know, we all get stopped everywhere. But as a County, we're catching it. And this really is a State concern and we've been given the reins. CHIEF FERREIRA: Believe me, if I could throw it back at somebody, I would probably have a little bit more black hair than I do. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm very glad to hear that. And I think a lot of people are glad to hear that. CHIEF FERREIRA: And by the way, I'm not a St. Joseph grad if anybody was wondering. I'm a proud Viking. No, I'm not HPA. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. So just as an urge at a dollar level and as a public level I think we're wanting to see a stage down to whatever degree that you can do that possible. If that is any weight. And mahalo. CHIEF FERREIRA: Thank you, Sir. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well that's all I have. I yield for now. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Paul, thanks for being here. But I think everybody up on the Council appreciates the fact that you're in a tough position. And you are there for public safety. And I think we all understand that. I'm laughing. It probably takes you an hour to get a carton of milk, too. Because no matter what you do, you walls in, you're going to hear from all sides about everybody's opinion. And I get it. CHIEF FERREIRA: Well the best one I heard is when people tell me, "Wow, you're a human being. You shop." I've got to eat. MR. RICHARDS: I have not got that one yet. But I appreciate it. And this is a tough situation and a tough time. And I appreciate the fact that Matt's concerned about our funding. We need to be concerned about that. But we also have the other side of the coin, we have to be concerned about public safety. So it's that gray area, and that's why we have a Council. So thank you. With that, Chair, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. And anyone else? Seeing none, Chief Ferreira and Director Sako, thank you so much as always. Okay, Council Members, all those in favor of filing Communication 3 69.10 please say Ic aye. Page 30 FC-22 November 5,2019 Vote on Comm. 369.10: The motion to close file on Comm. 369.10 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Poindexter— 1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, Please move and get us to almost the end of our agenda. Communication 543, please. Comm. 543: FUND BALANCE NOTIFICATION FOR JUNE 30, 2019 From Finance Director Deanna Sako, dated October 14, 2019,providing the above report pursuant to Section 2-12.4 of the Hawaii County Code. Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file Comm. 543. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz. CHR. DAVID: Any discussion? Okay. Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Deanna, please. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: Hello. MR. RICHARDS: Hello, Deanna. The fund balance coming forward on the MS. SAKO: Communication 543. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, 543. Can you just briefly touch on it? I know we have Fund Balance already appropriated and then the balance of Fund Balance that hasn't been appropriated. Just a real quick explanation. MS. SAKO: Right. So each year we determine the total fund balance when we close the books. And this year it was $33 almost $.5 million. And so we had already utilized $21.8 of the in the current year budget when we prepared the budget. So we have $11.6 million that is still in Fund Balance. And we know that next year's cost will be, you know, even higher than they are this year because the ERS (Employee Retirement System) rate increases will go up again for their last and final increment. Hopefully, final increment. Page 31 FC-22 November 5,2019 So the plan is to set aside that money and be able to use it for the increased cost that we know will be coming up in fiscal year 2021. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And on that $33 million, the $8 million coming out of Public Works, is that reflected in that or is that separate from that? MS. SAKO: I'm sorry the $8 million for publicoh, fuel tax. Sorry. This is, no, this is only General Fund. It's separate from here. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. So this is separate. MS. SAKO: Yes. This is only General Fund. I'm sorry. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thanks, Deanna. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Actually I think Mr. Richards just asked that. Which was last Committee meeting we saw, you know, kind of a cleaning house of all the leftover pockets of money, which was the $8.3 million. MS. SAKO: Yes. I forgot we had combined them all. Yes, right. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. And that's just fuel tax, Highway Fund; separate bucket of money, aside from this $33 ? MS. SAKO: Yes. So this report is actually just for General Fund. And the other funds have their own fund balance. And the fuel tax that you guys are re-appropriating those funds is actual in Capital Project Fund. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. Is there a way we can see all of those different fund balances from the different pockets of money. MS. SAKO: And we just transmitted. It's probably not agendized yet. But we just transmitted the Monthly Budget Status Report for June 30, and that's the final one. MS. LEE LOY: Perfect. MS. SAKO: And so, that has every single one in the back yellow pages. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Because as we move into this next budget cycle, and you've heard this side, budgeting for outcomes, trying to create synergies. So just to recapture we have $33 million in fund balance from the General Fund. But some of it is being banked for certain things. Page 32 FC-22 November 5,2019 MS. SAKO: Well $21.8 million we already used a revenue source in this current fiscal year so that we wouldn't have to, you know, raise taxes or fees. And then the $11.6 million we're hoping that will grow so that we'll be able to utilize that in Fiscal Year 2021. MS. LEE LOY: Is there any thought given to where like, it would be paying down a bond. Has any thought been given to that yet? MS. SAKO: So in general, like most governments, it's like really excess fees or taxes collected. So it goes back in as a revenue source so that we wouldn't have to raise taxes or increase fees. That's not to say we can't do other things. But I'm just saying that's the current plan right now. MS. LEE LOY: Oh my God, you just opened the door because I'm going to blue sky it for a minute. Is there any way to reimburse our taxpayers with that $11 million dollars and have a small portion of that appear on their real property tax bill for the next fiscal year? MS. SAKO: Given that we're still working on the next fiscal year budget and are quite short at the moment, I'm not sure how we would show a reduction and then a tax increase at the same time. But if you guys think it would make them happier to do that. MS. LEE LOY: Cancel each other out. I don't know. It's just we've taxed everybody all over the place and it would be just something novel for them to have. Maybe see it paid forward a little bit. Maybe that's something some of the great minds on the dais can think about a little bit. Thank you, Deanna. Thank you very much. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? Seeing none thank you again, Director Sako. All those in favor of filing Communication 543 please say Ic aye. Vote on Comm. 543: The motion to close file on Comm. 543 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk, please take us to Resolution 362-19. Page 33 FC-22 November 5,2019 ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. Res. 362-19: AUTHORIZES THE PAYMENT OF FUNDS OF A LATER FISCAL YEAR AND OF MORE THAN ONE FISCAL YEAR FOR A MULTI-YEAR LEASE FOR THE HAWAII COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT Authorizes the Mayor to enter into a five-year lease agreement for 150 mobile data terminals, with the cost for the entire five years not to exceed $450,000. Reference: Comm. 554 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Motion to Approve: Mr. Richards moved to recommend adoption of Res. 362-19. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Jacobs, you have been so patient sitting way in the back throughout this whole Finance Committee meeting. Please come forward and give us an explanation of the mobile data terminals. Thank you so much for your patience. (Note: At this time, Information Systems Analyst V Don Jacobs came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. JACOBS: Good afternoon. I'm Don Jacobs. I'm with the Hawaii County Police Department in the computer department. The mobile data terminals are used by the officers in the field to assist them in the process of their day to day job. We have about less than 300 functional machines right now. We have 450 sworn officers, some are not field. The 150 of these will help us in the field because a lot of them are starting to fail. And as of January 2020, Windows 2007 which is the operating system we're using right now goes end of life. These new systems will help us replace those. And then we hope to be able to upgrade at least 100 of the existing ones to Windows 2010. The average age of our entities right now, the newest ones are five years old. The others are 10 years old and older. So at this point and time they're beyond support and maintenance. And as they fail we have less and less in the field. CHR. DAVID: I see. Thank you for that explanation. Council Members, do you have any comments? Otherwise, thank you, Mr. Jacobs for being here. All those in favor of Resolution 362-19 please say "aye." Page 34 FC-22 November 5,2019 Vote on Res. 362-19: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 362-19 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Then we move to the last thing on our agenda, Resolution 363-19. Res 363-19: TRANSFERS/APPROPRIARES AN APPROPRIATION OUT AND FROM A DESIGNATIED FUND ACCOUNT AND CREDITS SAME TO A DESINATED FUND ACCOUNT Transfers $2,079,110.50 from the Finance Administration and Budget Salaries and Wages account and credits to various department's Salaries and Wages accounts, for overtime costs associated with the first quarter of Fiscal Year 2019-2020. Reference: Comm. 555 Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R) Motion to Approve: Ms. Villegas moved to recommend adoption of Res. 363-19. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. CHR. DAVID: Questions, Council Member? We have Director Sako. Director Sako, thank you. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna S. Sako came forward to address the member of the Committee.) MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thank you, Deanna. I guess I'll launch off because this was sort of my brain child when we were going through the budget. And this really is a reflection of us carving out all the overtime from the various departments and parking it with you. And so from what I can see here, and I'll ask it, there's like a $2 million transfer. But when I add it up there's over a million plus from Fire. How come? How come so much? MS. SAKO: Sorry, the question is how come so much is from Fire? That's typical in any given year. A lot of the overtime does come out of the Fire Department. Part of that is also related to their EMS (Emergency Medical Services) and hopefully is reflected the right allocation between the two. I know sometimes I have to go make adjustments depending on where the employee is assigned to. So theirs is typically usually fairly high. Page 35 FC-22 November 5,2019 In addition, you know, their short on employees at the moment. I believe they have a recruit class or two in effect right now that are still going through training. So as those positions get filled and they're assigned to their stations then, you know, we are hopeful that the overtime will go down. MS. LEE LOY: Because this is just for that particular time period, right? MS. SAKO: Yeah. Just up to September 30th. MS. LEE LOY: I guess I'm trying to understand. Is this strictly rank for rank and some of our contractual bargaining unit agreements? So I'm wondering if there was like a big fire. Like last time we had lava or Lane. And so there was some justification as far as overtime costs. Help me with that, Deanna. MS. SAKO: Yeah. So a little bit of it, roughly, actually less than $150,000 is related to being up on Mauna Kea. That's also during the same time period. But part of is rank for rank, so when firefighters or others are out sick then, you know, equal rank is called back. All of it is contractual. I can't speak to how it's assigned or, you know, how that part works or when they decide to bring back people. I'm not aware of any big events. But I also didn't specifically ask them either. Because, you know, sometimes brush fires and things like that would result in recall as well as natural disasters or things like that. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Deanna. I'm actually glad we're doing this because I think it demonstrates, you know, something that we saw during the budget process was so much of the overtime. But I think it also increases transparency and an opportunity for us to really ask the hard questions. So, Deanna, thank you for putting this together. I guess we're going to see a few more before we get to the end of the fiscal. MS. SAKO: Yeah. We expect to do one each quarter. And we're probably going to have to combine the actual transfers for third and fourth quarter together because we're getting too close the end of the year. So we'll need to do that ahead of time. But we can continue to send the reports for you guys to see. MS. LEE LOY: So my question is, because we carved it all out and you're going to combine third and fourth quarter, I guess I was also hopeful this allowed the department to be more incredibly mindful of their budget because they had one more checks and balance. So my question is, what happens if we end up not using all the money? And I'm assuming it's going to end up in Fund Balance carryover. MS. SAKO: Correct. Page 36 FC-22 November 5,2019 MS. LEE LOY: And so this could be an opportunity for us to really begin to refine the various department's budgets and hold them a little bit more accountable to their overtime and how they're managing staff MS. SAKO: Yes. While I don't disagree with that, we also have to be aware that so far, knock on wood, this has been a good year for natural disasters in this fiscal year. And so, other years have been different. Like last year and hurricane Lane. So just being mindful we do have to plan for a few unexpected items as well. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Deanna. I know, Chief, you just walked in. And really this is more high level because this is the first time we're seeing this. And I'm hoping as the next quarter comes through we'll begin to see a pattern or a trend. Because I know you've also asked all the departments to take a five or eight percent budget cut across their departments. And maybe this is the way for them to use as a tool to identify programs that are actually working and ones that are not. So that when they refine their budgets with the budget cuts that the administration is asking for, they're actually looking at programs that aren't thriving or aren't delivering services to the community, and maybe re-budget things that are working well while allowing maybe other ways address that through public-private partnerships or maybe some of our nonprofits. I'm just throwing it out there trying to get to a place where we're looking at the budget a little differently. So thank you, Deanna. Chief, thank you for coming. Really this is our first blush at how this actually is working and I'm really looking forward to what the next report looks like. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Deanna. I think Councilwoman Lee Loy points out that this helps us look fiscally going forward. And you made a comment, Deanna, that this is normal overtime which, you know, from my business background, if I'm running that much overtime I question if I have enough people. And because we have to deliver the service and either you have the volume of volume of service provider, whatever that service might be or you increase the amount service each provider is doing. I appreciate the fact that Chief is here because maybe, Chief, you can comment. Do we have enough firefighters? I'm bothered by the fact that we run that much overtime. MS. SAKO: So one of the things is even if we were, and Chief will correct me if I'm wrong, even if we weren't short staffed right MR. RICHARDS: Hold on, Deanna. Chief, can you come to the table please? Page 37 FC-22 November 5,2019 (Note: At this time, Fire Chief Darren Rosario came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: Even if we weren't short staffed right now and every firefighter position was filled people would still have vacation, they would still have sick leave, and we would still have to bring back another officer off duty to fill that position, which would create overtime. Is that not correct, Chief? CHIEF ROSARIO: Hi. Darren Rosario, Fire Chief, Hawaii Fire Department. MR. RICHARDS: Hi, Chief. CHIEF ROSARIO: I want to thank you for the opportunity to be here. I didn't want to leave Deanna to answer for our department on everything. I do want to say that we were tasked, we provided our overtime report. We have been 100 percent transparent. $1.6 million is a normal amount of overtime for our department because the majority of the overtime you see in the reports are contractual overtime. That's everything from paying our firefighter pay on a holiday because they work every single holiday. They do not take off It's everything from night alarm—all of those things that are in the contract that an administration doesn't have any control over. So we divided overtime into controllable overtime and non-controllable overtime. So when you take out all of the contractual overtime that leaves us with what's called manageable overtime. It comes out to the 470-plus employees of our department. Only about $1,000 for the whole year per position. We're running a very lean department as far as that. We are not overspending on overtime. We're underfunded. Because we're not a rich County. We're not. But the men and women of the department go out there and, they do their job to the best that they can. On the question as far as more manpower, we have four stations that we come each year asking for the officers to meet the national standards. But the overtime is also driven by emergency incidents. A search and rescue, when we're looking for someone that's missing. We'll put the bodies out there, a Fire Rescue Specialist to run those calls to do the searches as well as our wildland fires and our long term incidents. So in the long run it may look like overtime, but on those incidents we may need 50 additional personnel to mitigate that particular incident like the recent Waikoloa brush fires that we had. We put a lot of hands in it so nobody's homes would be damaged and then we could stop the fire. That was a very arduous fire because of the winds and the terrain and so forth. But if we were to hire 50 more firefighters, you own that for the whole year, ten years, a whole career. So there's always that balance that sometimes you have to pay overtime so that the long term financial impact isn't the same. Page 38 FC-22 November 5,2019 But I wanted to make sure that the Council knows that the overtime we spent in this first quarter, which included our mission up at Mauna Kea. Which for us has ended, has been all valid. Every single month I present a report to the Managing Director about our controllable overtime that's beyond with hours. That's been for well over a year that we had to do that. All departments had to do that. And we've never been questioned about it because we're not utilizing overtime in a fashion that needs accountability more than what we have here. We're trying really, really hard. We understand that this County does not have the funds. But one thing you know for sure is if you call 911 for Fire services, you will always get a response. And we have not gotten any complaints from the public. We go out there and do our job. Our overtime, some of it is skewed because of the EMS side. We went into the Paradise Park service of putting a medic at Paradise Park knowing we didn't have the current amount of paramedics needed to put that service. So that's a service provided by overtime. Very open to the State. They all knew that we provided that. So we got funding to run that medic with overtime. And that's what we're going. So it's a balance there. But I'm free. Any questions, feel glad to ask. I can show you every single dollar we spent. MR. RICHARDS: I don't think it's important to take a lot of time on Council right now, Chief. You bring up a very valid point that sometimes the best money we spend is in overtime, because your employee unit cost is actually lower because you don't have more employees that you have standing around if you're not having a crisis at the time. So I hear you on that one. I think where the question came, and from my district the question was—if I recall right, and Deanna help me out the overtime in the budget, total budget, was like 50 percent-plus for Fire as compared to the rest of the County. And that's where the concern was coming from. So let's take this offline and talk store about this where I'll have a better understanding, or we have a better understanding. It's not that we're not supportive, we're very supportive, but we also have to have a clear understanding. So Chair, with that, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Deanna, my question is I think when we did this, we didn't take away all the overtime. We only took away half. MS. SAKO: No, all of it was taken away. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The reso was to remove all overtime from every department? I thought it was only half. MS. SAKO: In the budget amendment it was to remove all overtime. Page 39 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: All the overtime. So you're allotting x amount per quarter, and then showing us an expenditure. And then some departments haven't used anything or used a little bit, and then some have used more than. MS. SAKO: Right. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Because I thought we were sitting on the use of the pre-allotted amount and then now burning the extra from the account. MS. SAKO: No, all the overtime got transferred out, so each department is managing you know, differently, and it depends on the situation. Like I said, for like Police and Fire, most of the time like if an officer or a firefighter calls in sick, you know, we have to replace that person. You know, they have 24/7 coverage around the island. Other people, you know, in a desk job-type situation like Finance, you know, if somebody is out sick for a day or two, it's not like we don't have anybody else to call back to work that overtime. But they do have to get the work done. So it just varies. So like in Finance, closing year end or working on the CAFRs (Comprehensive Annual Financial Report) as we get closer to December or deadlines like that, sometimes that will happen. Or definitely when there's special things like disasters, even after the fact where we're still doing accounting with FEMA, you know, our reports are due. Things like that. So every department has different reasons and different factors. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah just, overtime is a killer for anybody. For any business when your employees start hitting overtime, paying time-and-a- half-plus, so that's where it is in everyone's best interest for us to be looking at this and watching this. Because if we don't, then it gets out of hand. Or it's just unnecessary. You can have more staff sometimes to achieve something without paying overtime and it could cost you less. I think there's a—well I know there's creative ways to get around some of these. And some I don't, you know, honestly I don't understand. You know, it comes out of the bargaining unit contracts, and rank for rank, I know the terms, we talked about it, but when it gets down to the nitty-gritty details of those contracts, I haven't gone through them. So I couldn't tell you whether it's cheaper to hire one more fireman or cut down on overtime. So I apologize for not being more informed. But I do appreciate you coming back to us with this. I think it's really important that all of us take a good look at this and understand where our County sits when it comes to overtime. Because if we don't, then I think of what, last year we were at $14 million in overtime costs? That's big. And it grew. It's been growing every year as we look back to the different years, because you provided us with that spreadsheet. Page 40 FC-22 November 5,2019 So I will take a good look at this, and thank you for putting it together. And Chief, it's not to single you out, from last year, your department was big. And as we went through and talked about each section of your budget, some were required. Some were holiday or vacation pay and those were requirements set up, because we do have to have coverage on holidays, which is overtime but also holiday pay too, if I'm not incorrect. So it's not just overtime, but higher than overtime. But in other ways, I'd like to see each department, including yours, find ways to not spend the money, and there would probably need to be a way to incentivize that. CHIEF ROSARIO: Okay, if I could just respond to that. There's a lot of talk about overtime, but part of a prudent budget is overtime is in there. So you always have to look at if you're outspending your budget. For the last 12 years-plus over, since I've been actively involved with this, there's a lot of changes. The overtime rate doesn't get changed. Although hourly rates get changed, so the value of someone working one hour of overtime 12 years ago is not the same as someone working one hour of overtime today. Our overtime got cut because our County had to cut. But it didn't take away from the mission that we had to do. If you look at our overtime over the last 12 to 15 years, it has been constant. No matter how much money we get, it's been the same because that's the price of providing the service that I think our community expects. We do not put out only one firefighter at a station in North Kohala. If it's three guys supposed to be on duty, three guys will be there. We battle through the natural disasters that we have, so last year is really high. But at no timeI just want to make sure that everyone understands and the public understands, at no time did we waste money. Not at all. I mean, not at all. I mean, I stand high on that. I put my job on the line for that. We never wasted money. It's just to provide the service that I expect the men and women in my department to do. It does cost money and we're short, and we have all of those disasters going on. But we work hard to look at what we have to do. When there's a mission going on, we make sure we follow that mission and we cut it loose as soon as it's done. Yeah, it was high. I run a department with 470-plus employees, 150 volunteers that don't get paid a cent, and even with that, we still struggle sometimes to get the mission done. But the men and women that work for me, work for this County, they do a great job at it. I just want to make sure everybody understands, we're not wasting money at all. I wish we could have more money. If you look at the budgets of Maui Fire, Kauai Fire, we're not even going to talk about Honolulu and their $150 million budget; their budgets are greatly larger than ours, and we are the second largest department in this whole State. So per capita we're the best damn value any firefighter can get. So I'll use the term "yield" to that. Page 41 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think last year I thought about it. The last thing we'd ever want to do is call the Fire Department or the Police and get an answering machine saying, "Sorry, we're currently unavailable right now. Please call back during business hours." It doesn't work for a department that's responding to emergencies. But definitely and for us and being the Council, I think we have to look at this and that is your department and every other department as well. So Deanna, thank you for putting this together. And good job, Council, for taking a look at it. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Chief, what percentage of your budget is salary and wages? Is it like 90? Plus 90 percent? CHIEF ROSARIO: I believe it's about 83 percent. I don't have it right off the bat, but it's really high. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Every year it's increasing because of arbitration and all that stuff CHIEF ROSARIO: Collective bargaining. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, so pretty small margin of what you have work with in terms of upgrading your apparatus, getting equipment, making sure your folks are trained up. CHIEF ROSARIO: Yeah, so when we get tasked with providing a budget cut, you know, or a budget cut scenario, that's out of the OC, or Other Current Expenditures. So as that diminishes every year, it makes it harder and harder. So what we've been doing is aggressively going after alternative funds, whether it be grant opportunities, that I'm proud to say, we're pretty damn successful with that. I'd say over 80 percent of the grant applications we put in, we're successful for it. We're very fortunate for the Daniel R. Sayre Foundation, well over $2 million; we're about to get possibly another apparatus donated by that foundation. So I'm grateful to the community, the grant applications that are there, because it has helped tremendously. Anytime someone provides you with a $400,000 apparatus, that's $400,000 that Deanna doesn't have—let me listen, grumbling about we need the apparatus. Because we never ask for something we don't need. I'm just grateful for that, but that's what we do to offset the budget deficits that we have facing. Page 42 FC-22 November 5,2019 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I was really impressed. I think last Council meeting in Hilo you actually had a couple of days when your folks were getting trained up on how to do grant writing. I ran into some of the guys, so it's nice to see them wearing multiple hats and just doing their part to get what they need. Because clearly you guys need resources that our County can't afford. You know, I would love to invite you to come to our Council or Committee meetings to give a presentation about your very unique situation and how the rank to rank works. In my mind that was built in place so that for instance on medical calls, we want a paramedic there because they have very specific training. Versus our firefighters, who are EMT. So we don't want to compromise our ability to respond in an appropriate manner. We want to ensure that folks are there and accountable to the community. So I invite you to make that presentation so that we can all be better aware of how your department works and how it's a little bit different with the contractual obligations for the overtime. CHIEF ROSARIO: Yeah, let me know when and I'll be there. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great. Deanna, I had a question. Planning Department, they were allotted $8,000 for the first quarter? MS. SAKO: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: But really, they clocked in $62,000. MS. SAKO: Um-hmm. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, so that's for, I just want to make sure I get it clear, vacation rental applications I'm assuming, General Plan speak outs, Recovery? MS. SAKO: Probably all of those things. The part I'm not sure of is, you know, they do have the short term vacation rental fund now, and so the overtime for short term vacation rentals was supposed to be transferred to that special fund. I am not sure if that expenditure adjustment happened prior to this report being run, but we are trying to track it in each bucket so it all gets placed in the right location. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: We're going to have a conversation later about vacation rentals. I'll be sure to clarify with Director Yee. Thank you so much. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah,just a quick comment I wanted to follow up with the Chief. I appreciate the problem, Chief, we're talking about is having resource availability to be able to fund what we need to get done. So I went back and was looking at some numbers, our State population is about 240 people per square Page 43 FC-22 November 5,2019 mile. Oahu is 1,600 people per square mile. Our Big Island is about 45 people per square mile. That's why we don't have the funding. We're a big County. Once again, borrowing the Mayor's words, part of the problem with the Big Island is we're big. So I appreciate how you're stressed. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you. Chief, really, it wasn't to put you on the spot. This is something we're trying different and new. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder touched upon it. There's creative ways, and you're demonstrating that with funding and grant opportunities, having a foundation and a philanthropical supporter. And maybe other departments can borrow that model. So who knows, at the end of this budget cycle, there will be lessons learned for everybody not only to cut and be mindful of their salary and wages, but other tools that they can reach out and use where we're not constantly asking for taxpayers to fund it. So really this, it's the first time we got it. I'm actually really excited about where this could go and how we're sparking a different conversation. Because what Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder said, we've got to look at creative ways. But this is the pathway to that innovative thought. So really, it wasn't to put you on the spot. I think as we go forward, you're going to be at the top of the list again no doubt right, we know it's going to be coming. Ms. Kierkiewicz talked about coming to the Council and really explaining bargaining unit contracts. That rank for rank, I know that very intimately. And who knows, there might be something that Mr. Richards gets out of WIR (Western Interstate Region) or NACo (National Association of Counties), or Ms. Kierkiewicz out of HSAC (Hawai`i Association of Counties), that would lend itself to not only you, but other departments. That's all I really was hoping to spark here. So thank you, Chief. Really, it wasn't to put you on the spot, but I really do appreciate the conversation. CHIEF ROSARIO: And I just want to end with I don't feel like I'm put on the spot, because I'm always going to answer—you guys have seen me for a decade or so, and I'm just going toI speak my mind, and I champion for what I have. I've had a lot of scraps with Deanna, she knows it. But at the end of the day, no is no and yes is yes. But I just want to make sure that this whole process from what I understand was to be as transparent, so that's what I am. I'm here to tell you that it costs $1.6 million—actually it was $2 million for Fire Department this first quarter. Over half of that is contractual. The other half, I only have some control because there's critical positions that have to be filled per day to meet standards. Then the manageable overtime, we're doing that. Page 44 FC-22 November 5,2019 But I do want you folks, if there's any Accountant here, and I don't know if there is, but take our department, the amount of employees we have and the amount of overtime, and you'll get the per employee overtime rate. Just be careful when you compare that to smaller departments. We're on the line here, because we're the largest dollar value, but I think you'll find we're pretty lean. We're pretty lean, and that's what I want you folks to look at. And don't get on the Fire Department. The men and women out there, they do what I tell them to do. So that's why I'm here. I didn't want Deanna to take the heat for something we do. But I just want to make sure I leave here knowing that we operate very lean. Although the amount looks large, it's because we're a very large department with a large amount of responsibility. I think we take care of our community better than anybody else in the State. That's how I feel. That's how my passion drives me every day. CHR. DAVID: And thank you, Chief, for that. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I've got one more question. The numbers that you're basing the overtime on, they are based on what? Like your total. Your total amount, we have a quarter allotment, so the actual funds parked in Finance right now for overtime. MS. SAKO: Right, we divide it by four and that's what we're transferring. Some departments, you know, obviously spent more than that, some spent less. But for the most part by the end of the year, it should all even out. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, but the actual fund that you have sitting there, that number that grand total for overtime this year, that was based on what number? MS. SAKO: So, you mean when we budget? So when we budget we based it on prior year, and the departments adjust as necessary depending on what the demands are. But we've been trying to have status quo budgets and hold it level. So like the Chief said, his overtime number hasn't grown, and he's actually taken cuts over the years. But each department, maybe not every department but most departments have vacant positions. So part of the overtime is related to that as well. So the base salaries would be used for that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so last fiscal year we set up what we thought would be the correct amount, God forbid anymore natural emergencies, and then we said that's how much we're going to spend, we divided it into four, and then each department is given their quarterly allotment and they come back before us for the next quarter. MS. SAKO: Correct, yes. Page 45 FC-22 November 5,2019 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So the numbers we have are our budgeted figures that we're supposed to be using. I'd say for the majority, every department has gone over. Some very, very MS. SAKO: So some, where there were additional costs like, you know, Police maybe, where there's additional amounts. We're also getting additional funding for that. And by the next quarter's report, those overtime expenses will get moved into that separate account. So it might be more reflective of what that remaining overtime is, or typical overtime is. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I guess what I'm pointing out is that we knew how much we were going to spend this year, but being that we're over this much, with no emergencies and no requirement to be spending a large amounts of money, then we need to be very wary as we move forward. There hasn't been any eruptions. There has been no flooding, there's been tsunamis, so there really isn't anything that's happened so far that's warranted a larger than normal expenditures. And that is what I think was the purpose of this to watch for. So thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Keanali`i-Kleinfelder. Okay, seeing no further lights, all those in favor of approving Resolution 363-19 and sending to Council with a positive recommendation, please say "aye." Vote on Res. 363-19: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 363-19 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Bills ORDINANCES: for Ordinances. (There were none.) CHR. DAVID: I believe that concludes the Finance Committee. Page 46 I I FC-22 November 5,2019 ADJOURNMENT: There being no further business, at 2:11 p.m. Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Villegas and carried by the following voice vote: 4 f Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair David—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Mahalo. This meeting is adjourned. Approved: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair (Date) Finance Committee MD1tk Page 47