HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PC 2020/01/07 2018-2020Committee on Planning
22nd Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawai i
January 7, 2020
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Planning was called to order at
ORDER: 9:31 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz, Chair.
ROLL CALL
Present: Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz, Chair
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
Absent & Excused: Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms. Karen Eoff, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when
called by the Chair:
Robert Golden: Res. 432-20 (Comm. 658), comment.
Dwight J. Vicente: Comm. 688; and
Res. 432-20 (Comm. 658), comment.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Seeing no other testifiers, at this time I will be closing
public testimony and moving on to business of the day. Mr. Clerk, if you could
read in Communication 688?
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 688: NOMINATION OF NICOLE LUI TO THE HAWAII COUNTY CULTURAL
RESOURCES COMMISSION
From Managing Director Roy Takemoto, dated December 20, 2019, submitting for the
Council's review and confirmation the above nomination.
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January 7, 2020
Vote on Comm. 688: Ms. David moved to recommend confirmation of the
(Approved) appointment of Ms. Nicole Lui to the Hawaii County
Cultural Resources Commission. Seconded by
Ms. Villegas and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas,
and Chair Kierkiewicz — 7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Chung and Eoff — 2.
Excused: None.
Executive Assistant to the Mayor Rose Bautista came forward and
provided a brief narrative of the nominee. Committee Members spoke in
favor of the appointment. Chair Kierkiewicz informed Ms. Lui that she
does not need to appear before full Council for final confirmation.
Recess: At 9:53 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 9:55 a.m.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, we are back from recess. Mr. Clerk, if you could
please read in Communication 689?
Comm. 689: NOMINATION OF MARK VAN PERNIS TO THE LEEWARD PLANNING
COMMISSION
From Managing Director Roy Takemoto, dated December 20, 2019, submitting
for the Council's review and confirmation the above nomination.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: February 2, 2020 (Section 13-4(1),
Hawaii County Charter)
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to recommend confirmation of the
appointment of Mr. Mark Van Pernis to the Leeward
Planning Commission. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Bautista, if you could introduce the nominee? I
believe he is joining us from Kona.
(Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor, Rose Bautista
came forward to address the members of the Committee and provided a
brief narrative of the nominee.)
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Aloha, Mr. Van Pernis.
MR. VAN PERNIS: Aloha.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Would you like to address the committee?
MR. VAN PERNIS: Thank you for the opportunity to serve. I believe I have the
qualifications, experience, time, and willingness to serve. And this is a national
extension of my service on the Kailua Village Design Commission. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Any questions or comments from my colleagues?
Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. Aloha Mark, so nice to see you. This is Maile.
And first I'd like to say, I support Mr. Van Pernis' appointment to this
commission, because I've known Mr. Van Pernis for, gosh, about four decades.
And we've worked together. I think when he first came to Kona in the `70's, this
little law firm in Kona hired him. I don't know if you remember that. Mr. Sterry
was one of the associates in that law firm.
So, I've had a working relationship with Mr. Van Pernis for years. And I respect
his hindsight of things that have occurred because he's has some historical
knowledge about Kona and about procedures and processes that I think is going to
be very useful on this commission, and valuable.
So in the absence of my colleague, Karen Eoff, the district you're representing, I
would whole-heartedly express her support as well and welcome your
nomination, Mark. So thank you so much for continuing to serve the community
in this role and for your prior services. So thank you very much, and mahalo.
MR. VAN PERNIS: Thank you and aloha.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. David. Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for that, Auntie Maile. You
know, this one's tough, and maybe this question is actually for Rose. You know,
we've had other nominees come forward. And you know, I guess I just have to
ask how far did you vet this particular nominee? Because I have information
regarding some of the work done a while ago. And so I just want to understand
why the Administration picked this particular nominee and how much vetting this
this nominee was given.
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MS. BAUTISTA: Like all nominees, we vetted as best as we can. I actually even
have the assistance of my colleague on the other side, on the west side.
Nancy Pisicchio, who has known Mr. Van Pernis for numerous years, and she was
the one who actually interviewed him; talked to him about the position. But
we've talked to numerous people in terms of how he would serve on the
commission, and there were different responses. But all in all, basically in
comparison even with the other nominees, Mr. Van Pernis possessed the
knowledge, the passion, and the commitment to best serve the commission.
MS. LEE LOY: Ms. Bautista, I'll just go ahead and put it out just because I've
done my own research. And there is or was an Office of Disciplinary Counsel
action against this nominee. And I understand second chances, but I want to
understand from the Administration how they vetted this or if they even had this
knowledge.
MR. VAN PERNIS: May I comment on this, please?
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, I'm asking the Administration, who put this nominee
forward.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Van Pernis, excuse me, decorum. Thank you. I'm
going to ask Ms. Bautista to first respond to Council Member Lee Loy, and then
I'll give you an opportunity to clarify. Ms. Bautista.
MS. BAUTISTA: As I said, this nominee was vetted mostly by my colleague,
Nancy Pisicchio.
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, I have a lot of reservations about this nominee, and I
would like to hear from my other colleagues first on how to proceed. I'm going
to yield at this time. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Comments? I have a couple questions for
you, Rose. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, I'd just like to know what we're talking
about? So, I can understand it.
MS. BAUTISTA: I was not aware of that.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: We're on the nomination of Mr. Mark Van Pernis to the
Leeward Planning Commission.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I understand that, I'm just wondering what
the issues are that we're discussing.
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MS. LEE LOY: Chair, if I might?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Please do.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because I feel like you have information
that we don't have.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, in the past, we've had nominees come forward and there's
been information that hasn't been made available to us as far as being able—and
that's why I'm asking Rose how far they vet particular nominees. And like
Ms. David, you know, I've worked for a number of attorneys. And so I really do
appreciate what Ms. David is saying, but I also know of an Office of Disciplinary
Counsel complaint that was done a while ago.
But it also speaks, to me, about this nominee's ability to be fair—well not so
much fair, but objective in a thoughtful way. And that's why I'm just asking for
the Administration to clarify for this body, how they vet an applicant. And like I
said, I'm all for second chances. I just want to understand from the
Administration why this particular applicant, but I'm also hearing from
Ms. Bautista, they were unaware of this matter. And so I'm beginning to question
how much they actually vet a particular nominee.
So, the Office of Disciplinary Counsel complaint was filed a while ago, but I'm
back to asking the Administration why this particular applicant and how far they
vetted this applicant.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Do you have any questions for Ms. Bautista or the
process?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I do. Sorry, we're here for the nomination.
I understand the concerns with how we vet, but concerns on how they vet versus
concerns for this nomination, do they need to be a separate conversation or do we
have a discussion about how we vet while we're talking about a nomination?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: We're just asking for this particular nominee.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so if we're just talking about this
nomination, I'd like maybe instead of a while ago, give us a good number so that
we can understand what you're talking about. And I'm just trying to divide what
we're talking about into two pieces, because I think we're talking about two
different things here.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: So Ms. Bautista, you weren't aware of the disciplinary
action?
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MS. BAUTISTA: No we were not.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, I just want to step in here. Were there other
candidates that could have been slotted in to fill the Leeward Planning
Commission?
MS. BAUTISTA: There were other candidates that we interviewed.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, and then was the Planning Department engaged in
the process to provide feedback as to their preference of candidates?
MS. BAUTISTA: Yes, they were.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And how much is their feedback, I mean how much
weight does that carry in making your ultimate decision?
MS. BAUTISTA: For all the nominees that we do, we take whatever
recommendations or comments the department has to heart. But we also talk to
various people. We do not just depend on the department. And the positive
outweighs whatever negative there might have been out there. So, yeah, they
were involved in the vetting, nomination.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Ms. David, do you have any comments you'd like
to offer.
MS. DAVID: Yes, I'm still in a quandary about the issue of the disciplinary
decision, being that we have no idea of what the complaint covered; how does it
tie into what we're deciding here today? And what I see is, if this is where we're
going, that the vetting was not adequate, is this the process that we have to
entertain for every single person that comes before us? I don't think we've done
it in the past.
I think this happens to come out at a time where, maybe there's some discrepancy
about the nominee. And hearing about something that I have no information
about, a disciplinary counsel actionI'm curious what their decision was, if
anything. But I don't want to go there because I think that's outside of what
we're trying to address here. If this is where we're going to go, then maybe we
should find out first, how do we proceed? I mean this is new information.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: It's not in our packet. It's not in our confidentials.
MS. DAVID: It's not in our packet. And I really am very hesitant to make a
decision based on, there was an action, I don't even know what the final outcome
was. That's not going to be allowing me to make an informed decision. As far as
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the nomination, I'm doing it based on my knowledge of this man; what I've
experienced and that did not include my knowledge of a disciplinary action.
To me that's separate and aside from this. If the Council wants to go down that
route and just because there's been an action, and not knowing any factual result
of that or any details about it. I think what I'm seeing here is what's been
provided to us by the Administration, and that is how I have to make my decision
today. And so, that's all I can say.
You know, this other stuff, I don't have any more information than what you're
providing, Ms. Lee Loy. So, I'm really hesitant to make any decision based on
any new information about a disciplinary counsel action. So, I stand in support of
Mr. Van Pernis' nomination. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I guess I would ask for some counsel from the Clerk. Is it
possible to table this in order to do some more research? I also understand that
Mr. Van Pernis would be representing District 8, and Ms. Eoff is unable to be
with us today. So I have some other questions about that as well, so I'm
wondering if there's an opportunity to pause at this point? Postpone would be the
terminology for another form of action, so, I'm wondering if that's relevant to a
nomination?
MR. BROWN: I think if you guys wanted to sort of pause and take this up at
another time, maybe a postponement would be something to consider? That may
give the Council as a body more time to look at more things.
MR. VAN PERNIS: May I comment please? This seems to be inaccurate
information.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Van Pernis, not at this time. We are discussing a
procedural matter. I'll let you know, thank you.
MR. BROWN: If I could follow up on that, actually in this case, there wouldn't
be enough time to postpone the communication. The confirmation needs to be
completed by February 2 of this year, 2020. So, either way that the body votes
today, the communication will move forward to Council where it will be read
again.
If there weren't a majority vote for a positive or a favorable recommendation of
the nominee this time, it would move forward to Council showing that there was
not a favorable recommendation. But it would continue to move forward, and
you guys would have one more chance to vote on the communication at that time.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Or in between then, the Administration could withdraw
the nomination. There are those different pathways, I'm saying. Okay, thank
you. Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, Mr. Van Pernis, I'd like to hear from you.
MR. VAN PERNIS: Thank you. The disciplinary complaint Ms. Lee Loy is
referring to, I don't know the source of her information, but it was approximately
15 years ago. I'm not sure of the date, but about 15 years ago. It involved my
complaining to a foreclosure commissioner about taking personal property and
disseminating it. I complained to the foreclosure commissioner. The foreclosure
commissioner filed a disciplinary complaint saying that I should not have argued
with her.
The matter when up on appeal to the Hawaii Supreme Court and they agreed
with my position. So the disciplinary complaint was resolved, accordingly. I
would invite Ms. Lee Loy or whoever's complaining to present what facts, if any,
they have. Thank you.
MS. POINDEXTER: And thank you for that explanation, because I'll be voting
for your nomination. And I think your explanation was, you know, justifiable on
why we can move forward. And I don't know if Ms. Pisicchio, you know, she
may have been aware of that. Like you said, you did not do the vetting yourself,
but she did on the Kona side. So I's trusting that, you know, that did get clarified
especially with his explanation here. So thank you for that, and I'm supporting
you. Aloha.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Villegas, you had your light on? Okay.
Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Couple of things just to respond. If you just
look it up, Office of Disciplinary Counsel, it's all there. But I actually want to
speak to Ms. David's point about the process. The Administration gives us
information in which we have to base our decisions on. And it didn't take much
for me to Google this individual's name and find this information, which then
makes—which is why I'm asking the question of the Administration, how much
vetting is done?
Now, to the process, we're relying on this information to make the decision. And
if there's another way other than what we have in front of us at committee, we
don't know a nominee until it's presented to us. And so, I think we have a lot to
chew on based on the information I've heard from the Clerk. Maybe this will
give the Administration time to pause and reconsider or come back with why they
picked this particular applicant. I heard Ms. Bautista say there were other
individuals. I also understand that the Planning Department was consulted.
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But what we have before us is a nominee. So with that, I'm not going to be
supporting this nominee at this time in hopes the Administration can come back
during our Council Meeting and show us a bright line of a vetting process so that
this type of stuff doesn't have to come out like this in this manner. Chair, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, any other comments? Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Van Pernis, I can appreciate your
position and I think what we're actually more discussing here is a procedural
issue. And I have some thoughts as far as maybe there's a way of avoiding this
by changing our form a little bit for application.
Being a professional, I can understand that things can happen. You can be
sanctioned for that, but if things are taken care of, we can go forward. And I think
it would appear that things have been taken care of. But as a Council, we have
the responsibility for vetting things coming forward. And so I'm going to need to
dig a little bit deeper. I think one of the biggest things that we as a Council
recognize is the personal relationships that a Council Member of that district has
with the potential nominee, whatever the case may be. We don't have Karen here
right now.
From my perspective, I think there is a procedural error, and Sue, I think you
highlighted this, but I think there is a way forward with this. But since we have
this partial information, I got to do a little bit more digging right now. So I think
there's something that, I don't know, for this process. I think, especially if we're
going to have professionals coming before us. And we're going to because these
commissions are asking of that.
If there's been a regulatory side, as far as a sanction, rather than just convicting of
a law, we may request that there's been a sanction by the associations or whatever
just so we know that's complete and transparent coming forward. Because that
doesn't necessarily disqualify anybody. But I think it's better that we have the
information upfront rather than in chambers.
So at this point, I think there is a way forward. I think procedurally we should
address something, and I'm not exactly sure how to do that, if this is the form of
the Administration or the County, so I'd like to explore that. I'd like to look into
this. I think there is a way forward. I think I'm going to support it when we get
to the other end, but right now I'm on the fence. Thanks, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Any other questions or comments?
MR. VAN PERNIS: This is Mark Van Pernis, may I comment, respond to the
Councilman's statement?
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, go ahead, Mr. Van Pernis.
MR. VAN PERNIS: I want to emphasize this matter has nothing to do with my
opinion with matters that would appear before this commission. And the matter
was 15 years ago or more and was resolved. And I think Ms. Lee Loy when she
went on Google, saw a comment from one individual who I have successfully
overcome in previous litigation of many years ago. So I think that this is a matter
that's resolved; over with, over 15 years ago. And the Council can make a
decision on that basis.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for those comments. Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, since we were talking about the vetting process, I
would hope, or maybe a recommendation to the Mayor's Office, and maybe you
do it already, that we do work with the department heads that it will impact.
Because the departments have to be able to work with a team, right? And so, I
would hope that they also have a voice in the vetting. You know, because a lot of
times, you can discover a lot of things after the fact, and it may not be a good fit
for the team.
Now, I'm kind of like starting to struggle with this because, again, like what
Council Member Richards had stated also that Council Member Eoff is not here,
who's district he's in. Whether, and like what our Clerk stated, we need to move
it forward one way or the other. Or the other option is the Mayor's Office is
willing to, you know, withdraw this and come back to us.
So I would like to make a motion to table to the end of our meeting. You know,
we go to the next one, and I would ask if maybe Rose, you could consult with the
Mayor, if he would be willing to withdraw and come back. Whether it will be
with Mr. Van Pernis again, so be it. But I think this will giveI think it will be a
better process because we wouldn't want to go voting all "no" and go negative to
Council. This doesn't look good on record for Mr. Van Pernis.
Motion to Table: Ms. Poindexter moved to table Comm. 689 to the end of the
agenda. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. BAUTISTA: I just want to make a comment before, you know, the next
action. As far as the vetting process in the past, I just want to share this with you.
We thoroughly vet our applicants, okay. We do that. Assuming this was
discovered, and I Googled him. For some reason that didn't surface. Okay, we
Google everybody. That didn't surface. Assuming something comes up, issues
like this that is of concern, we will look into it. That is discussed. Many of our
applicants, things come up. There's a lot of interesting things come up from FBI
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(Federal Bureau of Investigation) checks to background checks. A lot from
Google, and like I said, we take all of those into consideration.
This is hypothetical, assuming something came up, we would look at what the
issue was, whether it's applicable; whether is it relevant to this, what have you.
There were even criminal charges in some of the applicants. And you look at how
long was the conviction, so we look at the length of time the person was
convicted. If a person was convicted, and we've had over 30 years ago; over 40
years ago. Is it relevant now? We've actually nominated one that had a criminal
conviction about 40 years ago. But when you weigh things out and you look at
where they've been; how they've contributed to the community, does that affect
their nomination now?
Okay, so you want to look at the totally of all the circumstances. We certainly
will look into this. And assuming that comes up, Mr. Van Pernis has already
explained to us what the discipline was all about. So that's something we're
going to take into consideration. Whether we'll withdraw this or not, I don't
know. We will look into it. But in terms of the process, we try as best as we can
to make sure that everyone is thoroughly vet. And no system is perfect, as you all
know, but you can only try the best. And so far I think we've done the best that
we can.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Bautista. Alright, any final comments
from my colleagues? Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. I'll go ahead and share that report from the Office of
Disciplinary Counsel. And Mr. Van Pernis, I didn't want to get him involved, but
he's right, the matter has been resolved. But I think it speaks to how he may or
may not be a good fit. What bothers me is that we weren't given the opportunity
to understand this information and it had to come out like this, which is just not a
good look. So I'm willing to share that information with you folks.
I just really am beginning to question the information that comes from the
Administration and how much of it is really good information for us to make
sound decisions. That's all I'm speaking to. I think what we have before us is a
motion to table this matter to the end of the agenda. You guys can come back,
review the information that I forward to you folks and make that business
decision, and then make the body decide. With that, Chair I'm going to yield, but
I believe we have a motion on the floor to table the matter.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I'd like to hear, before I entertain that motion formally,
I'd like to hear from Mr. Richards and then I have a couple of comments.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. I think Val discovered a way forward to
kind of sort through this thing. So Val, I do appreciate what you're saying. And
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given that we have information that, in good conscience as representing our
districts, we have to explore before we can go forward. So I do like that. The
concept, again getting the information.
Rose, I think this is your form coming out of the Mayor's Office. So if we were
to add a line in there about professional organization or something along those
lines, that may actually solve a lot of this stuff, which would address
Ms. Lee Loy's question and I think would help us out. But I am going to support
the tabling till we get to the end of the deal to figure this out. And like I said, I
think from my quick Google, I think things have been resolved, but I need to
investigate a little bit further before I can make a determination. Thank you
Chair, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: So I'm very sorry this is happening so publicly,
Mr. Van Pernis. You know, I do a Google search of all the candidates, the
nominees that come before the Council because I like to be informed. And I did
see the disciplinary action; looked into it. There have been patterns, but they have
been very long ago. I didn't want to bring it up, others did and here we are.
I think what bothered me the most was an editorial that was published in West
Hawaii Today in March of last year that was pretty scathing. I didn't appreciate
the tone and the way in which you were attacking members of this Council. A
decision that we made regarding a subdivision. And it spoke to me about your
ability to be a fair, impartial, open-minded arbiter. Because the Planning
Commission makes very, very important decisions that have land use implications
for how our island develops and moves forward.
So personal matters aside, I was very concerned about your ability to serve based
on that editorial and other comments that I've heard from members of the
Planning Department and the community. So that is where my reservations lie in
your nomination before us.
MR. VAN PERNIS: May I respond, please?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: You know, I'm sorry we're way overtime. We still have
a number of things on this agenda to get through. There is a motion by
Ms. Poindexter, seconded by Ms. Lee Loy to table this nomination to the end of
Planning Committee. All in favor please say "aye."
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Motion to Table The motion to table Comm. 689 to the end of the
(Approved) agenda was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas,
and Chair Kierkiewicz — 7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Chung and Eoff — 2.
Excused: None.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: This nomination is tabled to the end of Planning. We
have a matter before us regarding Resolution, order of the day. Ms. Bautista, I
guess we'll see you in about 20 minutes or so with the decision from the
Administration as to what to do with this nomination.
MS. BAUTISTA: Okay, thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Okay, at this time I would like to relinquish
my Chair position to my Vice Chair because the matter before us is something I
am introducing. So let the record reflect I am relinquishing the Chair.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Mr. Clerk, let the record reflect I have assumed the
Chair. With that, please Mr. Clerk, Resolution 432-20.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order
RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions.
Res. 432-20: URGES THE COUNTY OF HAWAII TO ESTABLISH FUNDING IN FISCAL
YEAR 2020-2021 FOR A COMPREHENSIVE AUDIT AND ANALYSIS OF
CHAPTER 23, SUBDIVISIONS, AND CHAPTER 25, ZONING, OF THE
HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED)
Seeks an appropriation of $125,000 for the purpose of funding a consultant for
the Planning Department to complete the audit.
Reference: Comm. 658
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Clerk. Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to forward Res. 432-20 to the
Council with a positive recommendation. Seconded by
Ms. Poindexter.
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January 7, 2020
CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kierkiewicz, this is your matter, go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Last year, I and a number of members
of this body were fortunate to attend the Hawaii Conference of Planning Officials
on Maui, and there were a number of excellent workshops. One of them I
attended was very interesting, and the genesis for this resolution. It was the how,
the why, the what's of a code audit.
Maui County presented their very particular experience in doing a zoning code
audit analysis and eventual refresh in partnership with their consultant. And I
found their approach to be very thoughtful, very inclusive, and I liked the way it
was done in phases. The comprehensive audit allowed Maui to reflect on
structure and performance which lead to very purpose -driven rewrites.
As Chair of Planning I stay in close touch with the department to see how I can be
helpful. Thank you for that, for indulging me, and for all of your input in crafting
this resolution. I know that they've been looking at tackling zoning and
subdivision codes through an audit for some time. I believe they keep a folder of
all the things that they would like to update when the time comes.
And so I wanted to provide them support through a resolution and ping the
Administration while they are busy crafting our budget to carve out some funds to
make this very important investment. As you know, we've seen during this
committee when bills comes before us for deliberation; rezoning requests,
proposed housing developments.
We've seen how outdated zoning and subdivision are in particular, and so there
have been amendments over a time that I feel we're generally meant to help make
things easier. But in reality it's created a lot of conflict, and inconsistencies, and
misinterpretation of the law. And so I felt it's about time with the General Plan
being updated to take a look at these codes in particular very honestly in
partnership with our community, which is the eventual end user. And start to
craft some rules that are a bit simpler and clearer.
If I could call up Planning Director Michael Yee, Deputy April Surprenant. Note,
a couple of things I noticed for subdivision in particular, as we look to implement
complete streets, this is where a code audit would be very helpful. And in terms
of zoning, the last overhaul was 1996. I think I was ten. Oh, my goodness. But
there just seems a lot of opportunity and it's very timely for us to be doing an
audit with the eventual update of the General Plan. So, I'd just like to turn it over
to you to see how something like this this type of exercise would be helpful to
your department.
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January 7, 2020
(Note: At this time, Planning Department Director Michael Yee and
Acting Deputy Director April Surprenant came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MR. YEE: So, thank you, Councilwoman. Michael Yee, Planning Director. I'll
let April introduce herself with me.
MS. SURPRENANT: April Surprenant, Acting Deputy Director, Planning
Department.
MR. YEE: Quick story, just this morning, I was grappling with the question
around the restriction for a guest home being used as a vacation rental. And so
within our Code in Residential Zones, if you intend to build a new guest home,
you cannot use it as a vacation rental. Okay, so the person who was asking the
question was not happy with that, you know, response. But he was like saying,
"So everybody who is renting out a guest home is illegal, and should be fined?"
I'm like, "No."
And so this raises the question around, if you build an ohana, you build it for your
elderly parents who eventually pass on, and then what do you do with it? You
may rent it out as a vacation rental, right? It makes obvious sense and that
happens throughout the island. Yet it's difficult to reflect all these things in code
that is like 25 years old. They didn't think of all these options and thinking about
how we were trying to place restrictions with certain kinds of codes, right? So
things do get outdated and need updating.
In the past, many planning directors have chosen to use memos and other kinds of
guidance to try to navigate the code. We get to the point now, where Norren Kato
my administrative permits person often calls it code yoga. You know, we've got
to try to transform, you know, trying to apply things in very weird ways to make it
fit legally. And it's become daunting to try to do that, and being a director, I've
been unwilling to want to keep producing memos to try to figure out the gray.
We're way past that point.
I think most of you, I've had a conversation about the difficulty with our Code
and how outdated it is. As Ms. Kierkiewicz said, I've been in front of you many
times with issues around where the Code isn't working. And so it was on our
wish list since I've been here to think about when we would do a Code update. l
actually didn't think it would occur in this first term possibly, but you know,
through magic of finances and other things, and other opportunities, I think it
makes sense to start getting into it.
And I'm going to leave April, who's been managing the department much longer
than I have been in it, to talk about the advantages; what this first portion would
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January 7, 2020
get to, because it's only one step in what would be a very long process still. For
you to understand what you may be trying to sign up for with us. Thank you.
MS. SURPRENANT: Hi, thank you for having us. So this first step that this
resolution points to is the audit portion, which is really just a cursory look at the
overall code, both the Zoning Code and the Subdivision Code; looking at all of
the memos that we are referencing; our fix -it folder that we have and looking to
see what it would take. And given the goals of the County and where we want to
move with the Code; what it would take to actually do the revisions and the
comprehensive review. So it's that first step that has to be done anyway, whether
we ask for a million dollars today or $125,000 or $150,000 today, this piece has to
happen. And so we're looking at ways to do it incrementally.
This overall process to overhaul this particular Code, or these two Codes will
probably take us in the realm of four-ish years. So this is not a fast process, it's
going to take us a while to get through it. And so, we're going to look for ways to
fund it that way as well so that it's, you know, if we can help it, not to have a big
upfront cost in the beginning.
But this piece is the first step that helps us understand the extent to which we're
going to have to go through and the extent of, you know, an outline of the extent
of the changes. It will help us scope the next contract which will actually go
through the amending process. And it will help us understand what kind of
budget we will need to put in place in order to do that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I'm really excited about it because with
subdivision we can then take a look at road standards, which is very interesting
for us living in Puna. There isn't a one -size fit all solution and that brings us to
zoning. We are wanting more walkable communities, more mixes rather than
saying, let's have our commercial centers here and our homes 10-20 miles away.
So, I'm really excited to offer this up and to be supportive of you folks, and I ask
my colleagues to support this resolution, where we urge the Administration to
really make it a priority in the upcoming budget. Thank you, Chair, I yield.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Anyone else?
Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Chair. So, if I'm understanding this, this is the plan
to figure out what the plan is going to be.
MR. YEE: Yes, we're planners.
MR. RICHARDS: Just wanted to get that clear. Okay, all kidding aside,
Michael, I appreciate that. And I appreciate Ashley bringing this forward because
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January 7, 2020
our Code, our planning, it's not working. And this is what's stifling this County,
because we can't get things done because we're still stuck tripping over the fixes
that we tried to put in place to fix something that now is obstructing us.
So I think, this is a good direction, and to the point it's been stated about the
subdivisions. We have a need of what, 20,000 homes in the next five years,
something like that. Affordable housing is screaming for attention and we're not
getting it done. So I think this is not the step but a step to start resolving some of
this. And gee, what a surprise government is going to take a long time to get it
done.
I'd like to encourage us that we push this as fast as we can. But anyway so I do
like the direction. I think it's a modest ask to start making the change and turning
things. So I'm going to be supporting this. Thank you, I yield.
MR. YEE: So real quickly, a WSU (Washington State University) Cougar
deserves an answer from a UDub (University of Washington) Huskie. So a real
answer would be, if you gave us a million dollars to just do this entire overhaul
within that contract; within that scope would have been this first piece of scoping
out. And that's what we carved out, because it wasn't realistic for us to come and
ask the Administration for a million dollars up front in one year. And so, we
knowingly took the first piece of this get go, and we certainly consulted with
Maui in their work and looked at their contracts and stuff. So sorry if I gave you
a smart ass answer.
MR. RICHARDS: No, I appreciate that. And that clarifies that. Go Coug's.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
you have the floor.
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Good morning, so how does this relate to our
General Plan Review that we're doing, or that we did?
MS. SURPRENANT: So there will be policies that are called out once the
General Plan is adopted. There will be policies that call out that address various
land use applications and the way that those might be formulated in the Zoning
Code. It may call for particular amendments to the Zoning Code to address X, Y,
and Z. Additional dwelling units is a very good example. Some of our other
Counties already have—it's called an ADU (Additional Dwelling Unit) Code.
We do not have that. We have other ways that we do it with the ohanas and guest
houses. So that's one example that could be addressed that should be addressed
in this next version of the Zoning Code which would come out of the General
Plan.
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January 7, 2020
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: So, they're interrelated or they're not, or they
need to be separate. I don't understand why we're doing a separate audit of
Planning and Subdivision. Zoning and Subdivision Coding when we're doing a
General Plan Review already.
MS. SURPRENANT: So they're at very different levels. The General Plan is
much more broad -brushed. It doesn't have the details, setbacks and densities, and
things of that nature that are required to have in the Zoning Code. As well as very
specific uses that are allowed in each category of zoning. And so the General
Plan is a much more broad big picture. It covers a lot more than just zoning and a
lot more than just land use. And so the Zoning Code is much more detailed, much
more specific, and so they really need to be two separate documents and two
different processes.
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I think from the beginning I've been in
your office asking you about all my large subdivisions; when they were created,
how come we can't work in there? Why are they private versus public; roads,
infrastructure. How many times I've been in your office bothering you both,
asking you questions about that. And so I'm interested to see how this goes. I'm
excited.
It's been frustrating because all the needs of my district, basically simply stated,
"We can't help you because it's a private subdivision." So I'm very interested to
see what comes out of this. I'm on the fence with supporting it. But I'm also
excited to see what comes out of it. So, I yield for now, thank you.
MR. YEE: Real quickly, Councilman. I would encourage you to be in support of
it. For instance, 25 years ago we weren't very good at understanding our needs
around green energy, solar energy, and all the impacts; and building codes and
stuff that should be effective right now. So that's one reason that I know that it's
important to you to look at it.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Ms. David your light is on.
MS. DAVID: Director, I'm just wondering, during the General Plan Review
process that we're going through right now, so timing -wise should this happen
after the General Plan is completed before we do the audit or does it—what's the
plan?
MR. YEE: So this next allocation is for the next budget cycle. So by the time
we're even kind of enacting that first, you know, this contract to even look at it;
start preplanning, you know, the General Plan will be at the very least in final
draft phase at that point. So we'll know the things that are going to affect the
Code from that point. So I think it still fits in quite nicely in the timeline.
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January 7, 2020
MS. DAVID: In the timeline, yeah. Okay.
MS. SURPRENANT: And this first phase is really just the analysis of the Code,
and so that's not going to conflict with what comes out of the General Plan.
MS. DAVID: But still it's a procedural thing and I think it works.
MS. SURPRENANT: We wouldn't want to do the Code before—we wouldn't
want to get too far into it before completing the General Plan, but the timing is
actually pretty good for it to slightly overlap.
MS. DAVID: It's working? Okay, that was my only question, mahalo.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. David. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
your light is still on. Oh, Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, I'm supporting this because I'd like to see too, in the
audit and take into consideration how our Planning, Zoning Codes—how does it
affect the health disparities? You know, the things that we're developing. What
are we doing? Emissions or different things and different communities that may
impact the health and safety of each community. So, yeah, we're far behind, and
especially with, you know, climate change and everything happening. This is the
time to really dig in. So I can see this going forward instead of waiting because
again, we are behind. So, thank you for bringing this forward.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Process question. So we're passing a
resolution, if we pass this today, for the request for $125,000, but that doesn't
necessarily set aside $125,000. So what is the resolution doing then?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: If I might, Chair Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So similar to your resolution, when you first came on
board urging the Administration for more police officers for Puna, this is a very
strong statement by this body in support of planning, and a very important
investment in things that need to happen. I've already talked to the Mayor's
Chief of Staff. I've talked to Finance Director Sako, and now I'm just trying to
align up unanimous support from the Council to make this happen so that we see
it in the budget.
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: So come next budget cycle we can hopefully
set aside $125,000 for Planning so they can do the study.
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Vote on Res. 432-20
(Approved)
January 7, 2020
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: To do the audit, correct?
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: So prepping for that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: We sure are.
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Any other Council Member? With that
Ms. Kierkiewicz, I'm pretty excited about this because I attended the General
Plan speak -outs and I remember putting this on the board, right, a way to overhaul
Chapter 25, Chapter 23; line up the vernacular done with the General Plan which
would have the crosswalk of policy between what the General Plan is driving and
match it up with the various Code amendments, which we know, Director Yee,
there are a number of Director memos that are just Band-Aid fixes to the Code.
So with that I do want to offer—when I had this conversation separate and apart
last term, individuals from OHA (Office of Hawaiian Affairs) was also interested
in participating. Also, planners from the Department of Hawaiian Homelands
were also interested because of those types of jurisdictional issues. So through
this first phase, if we do get there, I know that those particular stakeholders would
be interested in helping craft, draft or even vetting some of the information so that
those particular organizations and stakeholders can be contributors with moving
this forward.
I do know of one conversation I had with an individual from OHA who told me,
"Sue just repeal and replace 25." And I took that to the department and it was
more than nervous laughter, there were a few choice four-letter words that came
out. So with that, we have a motion on the floor to approve Resolution 432-20
and have a favorable recommendation to the Council. All those in favor please
say "aye."
The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 432-20 was
carried by the following roll call vote:
Ayes:
Committee Members David, Kierkiewicz,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Poindexter, Richards,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Lee Loy – 7.
Noes:
None.
Absent:
Committee Members Chung and Eoff – 2.
Excused:
None.
Page 20
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ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: With that, Mr. Clerk, I'm going to be turning the
meeting back over to our Chair. I believe we have one matter still on the table.
So with that, let the record reflect I'm relinquishing the chair to the Chair of the
Committee, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Lee Loy relinquished the chair to
Chair Kierkiewicz.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Let the record show that I
have assumed Chair of Planning Committee. Mr. Clerk, we have tabled the
nomination of Mr. Van Pernis to the end of Planning Committee. I want to call
forward Ms. Bautista to see if there has been any direction from the
Administration as to how they would like to proceed with this particular
nomination.
Motion to Remove Ms. Lee Loy moved to remove Comm. 689 from the table.
from Table: Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following
(Approved) voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and
Chair Kierkiewicz — 7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Chung and Eoff — 2.
Excused: None.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Bautista.
MS. BAUTISTA: Thank you. First of all, I'd like to ask Mr. Van Pernis as to
how long did he previously serve on the Kailua Village Design Commission?
MR. VAN PERNIS: I served more than two years, and I served past the time of
my original appointment until there was a replacement made. I think you'll see I
was favorably recommended by another Commission Member, Bryant Ching.
And I think you'll see my service on that Commission was reasonable, rational,
and unemotional. I'd like to point out in response to Ms. Kierkiewicz's
comments, that I've never attacked personally any member of the Council, and
there's a big difference between being an advocate and being a commissioner.
My service on the Kailua Village Design Commission shows I can easily be an
objective commissioner. I would be an objective commissioner for this
appointment as well. I'm retired now. I'm not an advocate, and I think that I can
be a reasonable, rational commissioner for reasonable development in the County.
Page 21
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January 7, 2020
I'd also like to point out—well I think in response to the question that the matter
was long ago resolved and has no bearing on matters that come before this
commission.
MS. BAUTISTA: Thank you. I just wanted to echo the fact that Mr. Van Pernis
previously served on the Kailua Village Design Commission for more than two
years, up to when he left I believe, just this last term and there was no problem.
He served very well. High praised, as a matter of fact; very affective in the
commission. And with that the Administration feels that we're going to move
forward with this nomination. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. You know, with much thought and listening to the
Council's discussion and how we move forward, and again without Council
Member Eoff present, I was hoping that the Mayor's Office would withdraw and
submit again. Whether it be Mr. Van Pernis again, just so that it wouldn't go on
the record. But I cannot, you know, at first I was wanted to support, but after
listening to everything and not having Council Member Eoff here as well too, I'm
going to have to vote "no."
That's why I was hoping for the withdrawal so that could come back because it'll
have an opportunity at Council for us to hear everything and hear Council
Member Eoff's position on that because that weighs heavy for me the respect of
my colleagues and their understanding of people who should be on commissions
representing the people that we represent. Yeah so, that has a lot of weight for
me, so I'm going to, at this time, I'm not going to be voting for this. But we'll
have an opportunity again to come to Council so that I can listen to Council
Member Eoff and more discussion as we go forward. So, thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Yes, thank you Chair. And I appreciate Ms. Poindexter's
comments about having Ms. Eoff here. This is her district. This is the
nomination for her district. And I'm just maybe wondering if the Clerk—if we
tabled this as opposed to taking a vote today; if we table this matter to after
Council tomorrow?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I think, procedurally it would have to be a recess. Is that
correct?
MS. DAVID: I mean yeah, or table a recess. Whatever procedural—Ms. Eoff is
going to be here tomorrow. And that's my question. And because we have a
deadline here that you mentioned. And the fact that I really believe that Ms. Eoff,
Page 22
PC -22 January 7, 2020
if she had the opportunity, if we could recess this and take it after Council
tomorrow? That was my question.
MR. BROWN: Taking a recess is an option. I think the challenging part with
that is, tomorrow's agenda, we're not sure what time we may get through the
Council business. And to recess, we'd like to kind of specify, if we can, a time
when we would take this back up, this motion, this action.
MS. DAVID: Is it possible?
MR. BROWN: Yes.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: In fact, if we could just go on to recess to discuss the
procedural matter? Thank you. We're in recess.
Hi everyone, we are running a bit behind for Finance Committee. This should be
resolved in about five minutes. Thank you for your patience, appreciate it.
Recess: At 10:58 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:03 a.m.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, I am calling the Planning Committee meeting out
of recess. I think even though these personal matters were brought to light, I'm
still going to stand by my original statement, which was the editorials I saw in
West Hawaii Today. One from 2017 really caused my concern and really is why
I had many reservations about moving this forward personally, with a positive
recommendation.
And Mr. Van Pernis writes, "The County needs to get out of bed with developers
who have no intention of keeping their promises after they extract their corporate
benefits and profits." And it really bothers me that he has this lens of how the
County operates with folks that do projects here. So folks can marinate on that if
they'd like, but I'd like to move forward and make a recommendation to the
Council where Council Member Eoff will be joining us at the Kona Council
meeting where we can continue a robust discussion and decide then and there if
we will be confirming this appointment to the commission.
Mr. Clerk if you could take a roll call vote, please?
Page 23
PC-22 January 7,2020
Vote on Comm. 689: The motion to forward the confirmation of the
appointment of Mr. Mark Van Pernis to the Leeward
Planning Commission with a positive recommendation
to Council was carried by the following roll call vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David and
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—2.
Noes: Committee Members Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—5.
Absent: Committee Members Chung and Eoff—2.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Clerk, this moves forward to the Council with an
unfavorable recommendation. Ms. Bautista, I would encourage the applicant to
be in Kona at our next set of Council Meetings, which I believe falls on
Wednesday, January 22nd. Mr. Van Pernis, you can appear there at 9:00 a.m.,
Kona Chambers.
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
(There were none.)
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you so much. Do I have a motion to adjourn?
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 11:05 a.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn
MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas,
and Chair Kierkiewicz—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Chung and Eoff—2.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Planning Committee is adjourned.
Approv- •ill ,
p V i Lft).0/0
Ms. Ashley Kierkiewicz, Chair (Date)
Planning Committee
AK/dt
Page 24