Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PWMTC 2020/03/10 2018-2020 Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit 20th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawai i March 10, 2020 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit ORDER: was called to order at 2:19 p.m. in the Council Chambers, Hilo, Hawaii, by Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Ms. Karen Eoff, Member (via videoconference from Kona) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Gene Thomas: Comm. 639.4, in support. Greg Owen: Comm. 639.4, in support. Nancy Seifers: Comm. 639.4, comment. Larry D. Morris: Comm. 639.4, in support. Sylvia Dolena: Comm. 639.4, in support. Andy Andrews: Comm. 639.4, in support. Jon Olson: Comm. 639.4, comment. Amadao Markoff: Comm. 639.4, comment. PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 Kevin Vincent: Comm. 769, comment. (representing Cartow Kohala) Nicole Vincent: Comm. 769, comment. (representing Cartow Kohala) Matthew Purvis: Comm. 639.4, comment. Denise Jones: Comm. 639.4, comment. Robert Golden: Comm. 639.4, comment. (representing the Leilani Community Association) Mac Edwards: Comm. 639.4, comment. Greg Braun: Comm. 639.4, comment. Dane duPont: Comm. 639.4, in support. (representing the Hawaii Tracker) CHR. LEE LOY: I've been asked to take a small break, and then we'll continue with public testimony. So with that, I'd just want to put the meeting in recess. And for some of you who came as early as almost 1:00 or 1:15 p.m., you might want to go and check your meters. They're usually on two-hour time limits. Thank you for reminding me of that. We'll be in recess until 3:30 p.m. This meeting is in recess. Recess: At 3:15 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 3:33 p.m. CHR. LEE LOY: Alright, I'd like to call this meeting back to order. Thank you everyone, if we could please get settled. I'll start with our Clerk, if you could you please call the next two testifiers forward. Susan Kim: Comm. 639.4, comment. Susan Osborne: Comm. 639.4, comment. (representing Kua O Ka La Charter School) Deb Smith: Comm. 639.4, comment. (representing Vacationland Hawai i Community Association) Page 2 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 Smiley Burrows: Comm. 639.4, in support. Braja RuthAnne Tarletz: Comm. 639.4, comment. (representing the Pu`u`a Community and Road Association) Kathy Emery: Comm. 639.4, in support. Eric Cockcroft: Comm. 639.4, comment. Paul Charbonneau: Comm. 639.4, in support. Jeana Jones: Comm. 639.4, in support. Eileen O'Hara: Comm. 639.4, in support. (representing the Vacationland Hawaii Community Association) Olivia Filoteo Kekipi: Comm. 796, comment. (representing Ryan K. Towing Services) CHR. LEE LOY: I'm going to be closing public testimony at this time. Mr. Clerk, if you could take us into Communication 639.4. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 639.4: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE 2018 KILAUEA ERUPTION RECOVERY TEAM REGARDING THE STATUS OF THE COUNTY'S FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY'S 428 SUBMITTALS From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated February 21, 2020. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 639.4. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kierkiewicz, this is yours, lead the discussion. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, community. Thank you so much for consistently showing up. I know it is tough. I know it's frustrating. I know we're losing a little bit of patience, but I felt we were at a point in the process to create space to give you some good news. And so we got some of that yesterday via email, the FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) funding in place for certain departments. Page 3 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 And so, I just wanted to get an update from Douglas, and to kind of dive into a little bit of the details. So, Douglas, if you could speak broadly around the various submittals, because I know that Public Works has submitted applications as well Department of Water Supply and Parks and Recreation, and they are at different points of being finalized. So just a broad overview and then some questions, thank you. (Note: At this time, Disaster Recovery Officer Douglas Le came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. LE: Douglas Nam Le, Disaster Recovery Officer with the County. To help answer the question, I hope I can kind of start from the beginning a little bit in terms of what this FEMA public assistance funding usually looks like. So after a major disaster, a federal declaration is declared. You know, after assessing the damage of the infrastructure that is eligible for a FEMA public assistance, public infrastructure, a town, a county, a state, will look at what it would cost to replace that infrastructure that was lost. Our County initiated that process, and it really fell into several important buckets. One, it went in Public Works for the restoration cost of County roads; one for the Department of Water Supply for kind of the replacement, cost estimates of the infrastructure that was inundated by the lava, the 2018 eruption; and for Parks too, for the inundation of Isaac Hale and Ahalanui. The last several months that I think—you know, we've been providing some updates on, but really, the County and really the departments and Finance working very closely with HI-EMA (Hawai`i Emergency Management Agency) at the state level and FEMA at the federal level to understand what these replacement costs look like. And the departments doing their best to help articulate what was damaged, all the documentation that's required to substantiate it, really ensuring that our federal partners understand the cost of rebuilding, and the cost of material, and the complexity of working with lava, which is very different to, I think a lot of other folks who worked with other disasters on the continent. That back and forth has brought us to this moment. So for the roads projects, under the Department of Public Works, as it's well known now, there's just about an $82 million agreement on the cost estimates. Now that we've come to that agreement, the County expects a grant of 75 percent of that cost, and then the County provides 25 percent of that cost. Water Supply is in a similar situation, where they've come into agreement with FEMA and accepted it for the Water Supply infrastructure. Parks is experiencing what the other agencies also experienced, are in ups and downs of cost estimates and what's valid. And I think the departments have, you know, really gone above and beyond to justify and document everything they can Page 4 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 to make the case to FEMA and what things actually cost, in terms of what was lost and what it would to bring it back. So Parks is still kind of that process right now. But we have an agreement with the projects under the Department of Public Works and also the Department of Water Supply. The ball is now in FEMA's court to tie up the things they tie up within their process, and actually obligate those funds in the next several weeks. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And so once we obligate the funds, what are the pathways? We identify the infrastructure that's been inundated and what we're going to restore? Are we going identifying alternative projects? Tell me what that looks like. MR. LE: Sure. It can take different paths; and I think that's one role that I feel our team, folks in Recovery is responsible for, in terms of working across the County and with the community about what happens next,really. So for any project that we would apply this funding towards, we make a decision on the project. There is, you know, preliminary design work, a scope of work. You know, FEMA ends up agreeing kind of the parts of a project, what is being covered under these funds. We've talked a lot today about Pohoiki being the next project, and so that would be a restoration project. But then for other roads that we'll be making decisions on for restoration or any alternative infrastructure that could be developed with these funds, it's project by project. I think the—you know, while FEMA does not—FEMA talks about what types of projects and uses of the funds may be eligible for these alternative projects. There's a reality that our Puna community felt the most of the impact of this eruption, and priority around reinvestment in infrastructure kind of to serve the Puna community in terms of our approach here. But the alternative projects really depends on what additional roads will be restored and what resources will be necessary to restore those roads. And then understanding how much of that grant amount is left, to allocate our scope to other types of infrastructure projects that FEMA would deem eligible. And they have a broad definition that would also serve kind of the recovery needs and long-term kind of future for the Puna area. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I appreciate yesterday's announcement reaffirming our County's commitment to restoring Pohoiki. I'm not trying to downplay that news, but I think it was a given. You mentioned working with the community to determine what happens next. I think in reflecting in all of the conversations we've convened around recovery and the priority around roads,the top three things that were articulated: Pohoiki, Lighthouse, which is only 700 feet; and 137. So I want to dig in on the Pohoiki piece and look at what the timeframe is now to start work in order to get folks back home and to their farms. What's the timeframe that we are looking at? Page 5 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 MR. LE: So I don't want to misspeak for Finance or leadership of Public Works, who I think have joined us, but if I can start to answer the question? As I think about what lies ahead with the decision to restore Pohoiki Road, I think Highway 132 offers a lot of lessons in terms of how to do the work efficiently and effectively. It is not how we normally would kind of repair or build roads as a County, but there are efficiencies that I think we saw. And I think timing and cost canI'm not an engineer, so I'm not going to pretend like an engineer or cost estimator. But I think there' a lot of lessons learned from Highway 132 of what we could do well. But also, you know, given the conditions that we faced once we started 132 as a project, we could face similar challenges with Pohoiki, as well. We don't know yet because it's such a dynamic situation. I mean really, echoing and appreciating some of the feedback that folks provided in testimony today, it is important to set timelines and goals. There is an understanding, when for valid reasons like geotechnical conditions or temperature after event like this, those may slip a bit. But that communication and clarity on the when and the why and the how is really critical. So I take that kind of, you know, working all across the County departments is kind of in the next step. You know, I think for 132, I wasn't very close to it at the time, when it started but I know we broke ground in June. Again, work was completed even with the challenges in this situation, in late November. So it'sI think that kind of timing we can focus on by following a lot of the similar processes and steps. I know in the near term, you know, it's going to take a couple of weeks for FEMA to finish and actually obligate the funds to us to begin the work, but we're already looking at things like moving things past preliminary design and other kinds of treatments or improvements that the road way may need to really serve us for the future. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So at this point for Pohoiki, what we need to do is the paperwork to get the necessary permits in place? MR. LE: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And so has work begun on that? MR. LE: I know that as part of getting to this point, I'm agreeing with FEMA and actually having a real conversation with cost for all of our projects, right? Some basic design has happened. A real design needs to happen now. And also FEMA, the federal agency, needs to complete its EHP, Environmental Historic Preservation review. But they're willing to work with us and HI-EMA (Hawai`i Emergency Management Agency) to kind of get that going so that we can—you know, when we think about a larger project timescale, find efficiencies where we can. Page 6 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: What's standing in the way of making a commitment to reopen Lighthouse? I think I fully understand and recognize the implications of opening the road, which leads to a very beautiful resource, which I think the community would love access to because of the loss of so many natural sites during the eruption. And we've known from the beginning we need to convene these stakeholder conversations with community to ensure stewardship with the State, and so I'm just wondering we know what needs to get done, what are we waiting for? If it's convening the conversations, let me do that. Give me a deadline and I'll make it happen. I've done that for Kua O Ka U. I've basically been their case manager because there is so much to do. And so if there's commitment from the administration that we will restore Lighthouse, and we just need to line up certain pieces to ensure public health and safety, bring it on. Let's do it. I think—you know, Jon Olson always says, "Can the County prove it can walk and chew gum at the same time," and I think this is a really great situation for us to prove that we can. And so I'd like you for you to weigh in on that. MR. LE: Sure. So I think, as always, not with just for you but kind of the rest of the Council membership, your offer of convening and kind of bringing folks to the table is incredibly valuable to this process. I think that in my time in this position, when we started to have conversations with the different stakeholders, across the issues but also the opportunities that Lighthouse Road presents, and really understanding the preservation needs for the sensitive sites in and around, kind of what could be accessible again or further accessible around the restoration of Lighthouse, partnership with the State. I think the community spoke loud and clear about all the needs and the opportunities that would present, from sanitation to core facilities. You know,the community has a lot of beach access and recreational space. So it's that level of coordination and work and understanding what all of the things that need to line up, and State to actually kind of make this project real. I think fixing that is a priority, and so we all need to work together to line those things up. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Moving away from roads for just a second. The water infrastructure, we're nowhere near making any decisions on that, on where we're going to restore. MR. LE: So in my work with Water Supply, I think the understanding is that the department can invest these resources into restoring infrastructure, building infrastructure, based on what the future holds. So where folks are going back, where folks may be going to, where Water Supply is kind of lacking, and so it's bundled up in some of the broader questions of—say for example, many residents were displaced from the farm lots that were accessible from 137 and want to return I actively understand that Water Supply is critical to bringing that back. How that happens, the who—like how many folks we're looking to serve, the shape of that I think is still unknown. But I know that we need to work to figure that out and to understand, what is like the land assemblage. Page 7 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 A lot of these issues are really bundled up within one another, and it's having those conversations, and part of our larger recovery planning process of understanding where folks are returning to and what are options for folks who choose not to return and are looking at other options, because you've heard a lot from both perspectives here. Piecing that picture together so we can understand where the investment follows. But understanding to really know the end-user and the demand on the water supply prior to decisions actually being made on infrastructure. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Douglas. You know, I think some folks see a lot of obstacles, but I think the community at-large sees many opportunities. MR. LE: I agree. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: They showed up strong today. They filled the gallery. They remain committed. I'm committed to being their champion, to being their advocate. The trauma is very real. You know, I hiked with the constituents out over Lighthouse. Before Pohoiki was restored, I went on a huaka`i with friends and family, and I had my two-year old strapped onto me and I made that trek, and it is mind-blowing to me that people do that on a consistent basis because they want to go back home. Let's take trek together, right? I think that really helps to put into perspective what we're fighting for. I hope that you'll come back to us, to the community, soon and articulate a timetable for action. And even if it moves,just setting that out there to give people a bit of piece of mind so they're not stuck in limbo, and can just try to achieve a little bit more normalcy and make some decisions. I remain a steadfast partner in all of this. Whatever you need, convening conversations, whatever it is, I'm willing to go the extra mile to help support this process and support our community. So, thank you. Chair, I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Matt, do you ? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Douglas, you do an amazing job. I do not envy you. I'm not going to say ditto. We say ditto all the time. Are these decisions purely coming out of our Recovery Task Force that we are having.? Are your decisions coming out of that Recovery Task Force that we participate in? MR. LE: So the decisions are being shaped by the input and direction, and even some of the alternatives that are coming out of the Task Force conversations. We're also convening and talking to impacted departments, and kind of bringing that back. Kind of all those points of information, direction, to have the conversation within the recovery leadership around how we move forward, in terms of decisions. Does that help to answer your question? Page 8 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And the administration versus Council and decision and community input, how's that shaping? MR. LE: So for me, you, know, I think days like today are very important in terms of—you know, nothing that I heard as a receiver of information as part of testimony today, not much of it was new, but I think it's really important to have the conversations for me to hear it directly. I think thatI hope that a lot of folks in administration also kind of understand that value. I think that we take that information and kind of—we shape what decisions can be made and then what work still need to happen. And one of the main takeaways from that is that there is much power in this room, everyone in this room, and there's much work to be done still. So I really look to—in my role in shepherding these processes, kind of take the individual solutions, the needs what your folks are asking for and really see what their future is looking like, and bringing that into the processes, the next steps, in the decisions that, you know, the County through the administration, the departments as well as Council, then have to kind of make it and see through. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I would agree. What we're hearing is not new. It's the same thing that we've heard from day one, and I think we all know what we have to do. Community is asking for same thing that they've been asking for, and the Council continues to move. I appreciate being on the Recovery Task Force. It's been good for me to see what's happening. Maybe there needs to be better at communicating. I geta question arose in my head today was, what happens in the Recovery Task Force? How is that output to the community? Is this how it's done? Or is it up to each Council Member who's in there to put out information? MR. LE: Right. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That those are the kind of questions that were in my brain today was, how and what is to come out of that meeting and what is not to? MR. LE: Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That would be something you can answer for me later. MR. LE: Okay, I appreciate that question. Something we're grappling with too. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. And I think communication as a whole is a very old subject that keeps coming up and breaking silos. Yeah, I'm interested to know how to go from here. And then, I'm with Ms. Kierkiewicz on Page 9 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 what—how are these decisions not being made? How they're being addressed. And then timeline wise, like Mr. Cockroff said. Is that right, Mr. Cockroff? MR. COCKROFF: Yes (speaking off mic, from the gallery). MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, you know,just a good point. He's looking for the action. And something that we said again, again, and again. And I'm just wondering how. Do effect that action from the Recovery Task Force, or do we effect it from bringing the community out and letting them tell us again and again this is what we want. We know it's roads, but I'm trying to find that balance in my head of what and how. That was not very clear. I'm sorry but MR. LE: I know where it's coming from. That's clear to me. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah? MR. LE: Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. Okay, thank you. And to the community, good job, keep showing up, and keep telling us what you want. And we're listening, we are listening to you. And I apologize for what looks like a very slow response, but it is a very and slow and steady response. We all know the saying, "If you ask for help and the government says we're going to help you," then yeah. Yeah. But I think you have a very strong team in front of you and a very strong leadership value in that team. And there's people outside of the County on that team, who want to see the same thing that you're asking for. The community is involved, and that is the biggest thing. And the most strongest sentiment I hear again and again is involve the community in the decision-making process and you'll see a good progress. So for that, I can put that out there. That I know that there is some good input that's not just County representatives, it's also the community. And the team that Doug put together is wonderful. So, thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Anyone else? Alright, Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, I've got to jump in and make just a few comments. Smiley, are you still here? Or did she disappear? She just left. Okay, I think she made the comments about the coqui frog. Is she the one that make those? Kathy Emery, okay. And then I might mispronounce this, Paul Charbonneau, is he still here? Okay, he left as well. Well, I could tell that he was truly from agriculture; because anybody can look at 80 feet of rock, sitting on his old rock, and go, "I can farm that," he is inherently optimistic. And I've listenedDouglas, I'm not going to ask you all the questions because they've been well-asked already. To the community, as Matt has just said, we hear you, and we're not as Page 10 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 frustrated as you but we are frustrated. Government doesn't move quickly; we wish it would move quicker. A bill that came before us earlier, which gives latitude to Director of Finance to do some granting to get some funding quicker I think is masterful and that's going to help things out. I just want to say that I love the inherent optimism coming out of Puna. Like I say, when I hear ag people looking at rock and saying, "I got it, I can do it,"that's the inherent optimism that you only find in people with strong will, and often it's in agriculture. So Chair, I'm going to yield. I just had to comment on those two things. And I love the invasive species control. We use 80 feet of hot lava to control and coquis and fire ants. I like that. I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Any other Council Members? Well, thank you. Douglas, I had a couple of questions and it really springboards off of some of the testimony regarding the projects, right, HI-EMA, FEMA, and how they're managed. But what I heard very clearly today was a way to somehow do them concurrently. They seem to be done 700 feet and then will move on to the next project. Is there a way to line up the buckets of money along with the priorities and then do them concurrently? Because if the dozers there, then the dozer can do all the work at the same time. Share with me a little about how the funding works and if there's a way to put them together concurrently so the work is done, kind of stood-up all at one time. MR. LE: Again, not as a civil engineer who's ever built anything beyond some legos in my life, I do there are ways to be efficient in that way. I mean, I think if I can be so bold to say making decisions on which projects are happening is really key to that sooner, so that we can line up. Right, yeah, in conjunction with their broader planning that we're doing. And so for any extent of a road or a project, you know, each project would have a non-project worksheet, right? Tells you what you're going to do, what the cost is going to be, timeline, and things. And so on my part, what I can do, is kind of work with—and support in whatever ways is necessary to help connect those dots. And really the leadership has been and will seem to be from our infrastructure agencies, who kind of need to run with these projects, too. CHR. LEE LOY: You have to become a Lego savant. It's not just Legos. MR. LE: Yeah. CHR. LEE LOY: It's 3-D Legos at this point. MR. LE: Sure. Page 11 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 CHR. LEE LOY: The other question I had, especially around the water. Because I understand how the water is going to work, right? The capacity, right? They need to know what size line to put in; or what type of water;potable, non-potable, irrigation. Is there—has any consideration been given to just some general areas in where we want to see the water head to at least so that the Department of Water Supply can start looking at that capacity and then even begin sizing the line, and then even begin sizing the line, or what type of water, right, potable, non-potable, irrigation? MR. LE: Yeah. I don't have all the answer to that question, but it is important when in terms of thinking about what's next. Kind of the realities around sizing capacity. One part is around really completing and getting clarity, and with community and with kind of everyone at the County understanding what the next steps are in the recovery process, and where folks are going back. And the decisions are really part of, or supported by the Recovery Plan that we're working through with community input and engagement. We need to keep on asking those kind of questions and being clear; you know, bringing that back to Water Supply is something that I can do. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. And I think the one other thing I heard is, you know, the community doesn't mind working hard as long as they're falling forward, right? They don't mind standing up and falling down as long as they're falling forward. And so one thing I do want to offer is, you know, as these conversations are convened by colleagues—you know, I have some connection with facilitators, and sometimes the facilitation of the meeting to kind of clarify the idea, but what I also found very helpful with a facilitated conversation, is things are put in a parking lot, right, where we just know we can't get to it. And so like Mr. Cockroff said, "We want to know." But it's also good to know exactly what we just can't get to, rather than the energy constantly pushing up upon something. You know, so just not only being mindful of the timelines, but being mindful of stuff that just is out of reach, whether it's a three-year window, a five-year window, and being completely honest with that. That way the community can really focus on more attainable things. Yeah. With that, I have a motion to close file on Communication—let me finish, Douglas, do you have anything else to have? MR. LE: No, I think a lot of the important issues really have been brought up from community participation this afternoon, as well. So I want to appreciate that. CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Douglas, for being here. Council Members, we have a motion to close file on Communication 639.4. All those in favor please signify by saying "aye." Page 12 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 Vote on Comm. 639.4: The motion to close file on Comm. 639.4 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy–8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Eoff– 1. Excused: None. CHR. LEE LOY: I just want to poll my colleagues. We've been going at it for a while, and if—okay. With that, Mr. Clerk, we have Communication 796. Comm. 796: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE ADMINISTRATION REGARDING PAYMENT PRACTICES FOR COUNTY CONTRACTED VEHICLE TOWING SERVICES From Council Members Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated March 2, 2020. Motion to Close File: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to close file on Comm. 796. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR. LEE LOY: Matthew, if you wouldn't mind leading the discussion? I do also have a note here that Police Department—yeah, we have Major Andrew Burian, and HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) Torey Keltner also from Police Department who is also going to be coming. So if you don't mind, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, leading the discussion. We have Finance here, we have Environmental Management here, and then hopefully HPD will show up shortly. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. There are a lot of different aspects of towing and abandoned vehicles. Let's start off with Bill Kucharski; and maybe, Deanna, you come up here. I have some questions for both of you. And thank you for being here, I know it's late. (Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Bill Kucharski and Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, Bill, abandoned vehicles, towing company, general practice, can you just sum it up really quick? MR. KURCHARSKL There is—Bill Kucharski, Director of DEM (Department of Environmental Management). There is an Abandoned Vehicle Fund that is funded by $12 for every car registration, and we bring in approximately $3.5 million a year into that fund. That fund is dedicated solely to abandoned vehicles, and the personnel and the contracts. About 80 percent of the money spent goes for Page 13 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 contractors. We have two contractors that deal with—well, actually one contractor that has two locations for the disposal of vehicles, and we have three towing contracts which are held by two companies. One company owns two;they do Kona and Kohala, and then the other is Hilo. And Ken's does that and Diamond does the other two. Our contract calls for towing within 72 hours from notification from the police. We have been getting many more vehicles lately, and so we're—we usually respond within 72 hours of being notified by the police. We're now up to five to six days to get those vehicles towed. In 2018-19 fiscal year, we had about—almost 2,200 reports. Generally, we find about two-thirds of those reports are valid; the other third, either the vehicle was moved, it's a duplicate. So in 2018 fiscal year, we've towed 1,500 vehicles. And in the first six months of this fiscal year, we've already—we've dealt with 900 reports, and 910 vehicles that have already been towed and disposed of. There were like 1,200 calls. Each one of those calls has to be investigated, as well. Our payment is, once we get a valid invoice from our towing contractor, they're paid within 30 days. The disposal contractors are paid additionally within 30 days. And I can go over some of the numbers. In addition to just doing that, we do have a program that any person, resident of the County, that wants to dispose a vehicle, they get two vehicles a year. They can contact the department and then they get the vehicle to the disposal facility, and the County will pay for that disposal fee. In Aliyah's Law, we are working with the police now. There are number of vehicles that are towed not by the County of Hawaii AV (Abandoned Vehicle) group but are towed under Aliyah's Law. In January, we had 39 vehicles that we disposed of for the Aliyah's Law towers,towing companies. So they got the vehicles to the disposal facility, and the County paid for the disposal. Solid Waste Division is not associated in any way with Aliyah's Law tows. That's not our contract. That's not something that we have authority for unless the police deem those vehicles abandoned, then we have the right to tow them. That's a 60-second or maybe 120-second summary. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well done. Beautiful. HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) defines a derelict vehicle and an abandoned vehicle differently, and there's a backend procedure that comes out of that, which allows for the towing company to be—it's an easier process for a towing company to dispose of, park,junk, or sell the vehicle. Do we use that difference in definition to the towing company's benefit or do we call it an abandoned vehicle as a set? Page 14 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 MR. KUCHARSKI: There is no—in the abandoned vehicle program, the only thing that's necessary for us to tow—and the towing company has paid for every tow, so there are no benefit or non-benefit to whether it is considered a derelict or just an abandoned vehicle. The difference between an abandoned vehicle and a derelict vehicle is essentially that if it's an abandoned vehicle, it has been checked by the police to ensure that it is not on the stolen vehicle list or there's no other reason for that to identify a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number), because many of them are not there; to identify the last owner. When we have a derelict vehicle, we have the ability to take that directly to the processor. We pay for that tow, and that vehicle that is considered called "derelict" is then taken to our disposal site and disposed of and paid for by the County. We recently the Council, when they changed the requirements from being on just a public road to also private roads, we have that's, I think, part of the reason why we're getting increased numbers of tows. We can go into a place, but we do not have the right to tow from someone's private property. If it's more than 10 feet off the right-of-way, we do not have the right, under County code,to tow them. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But we do have a program right now that allows us to tow two cars off of private property? MR. KUCHARSKI: Yes, the owner can do that. If they bring it, contact us. They also have to show that that vehicle is either derelict or that they have some ownership records. We don't want somebody going to their neighbor and saying, "I'm going to tow your car while you're on vacation" and say, it was derelict. So you need to show—and that process. There are many checks and balances. Part of the issue is ensuring that a vehicle is in fact abandoned, and every attempt has to be made to find the owner and the last registered owner so that there isn't a de facto confiscation of property because we didn't check. I think Oahu had some of that problem. We go through, and we tow. We're up—we're getting more and more vehicles. I'm not certain exactly where all these vehicles are coming from, but we're getting them and towing them. We're looking at some additions, maybe getting a third or a fourth or an additional towing company that can get the vehicles off the road, but we still have a finite capacity of disposal facilities. So again, we don't have a lot of processing that can go on in this State. The vehicles are compacted and then they're shipped to Oahu, and then from there, they're shipped to a steel recycling or a steel plant at some location. And they have limited capacity to handle those vehicles at these locations. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's the bigger that's the overwhelming problem, I think, is that we have cars, we're towing them. The concerns that we heard today are the payment procedures from the County but not, what I'm getting Page 15 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 at, is not on DEM side. DEM is paying because you have the Abandoned Vehicle Fund to pull from to pay for an AV (abandoned vehicle). I did want to touch on derelict versus abandoned. Because derelict on the backend, a derelict vehicle can be disposed of or sold as junk without having to comply with the requirements of HRS 290-2 and 290-5, which could be beneficial both to the towing and to the County. Just in that simple definition of it's an abandoned or it's a derelict. The definition of derelict is interesting; I'm not going to read it. MR. KUCHARSKI: We make that standard. We need to have our AV people go out and physically locate that vehicle, make a determination that it is derelict, and once that happens, it is towed. And again, even if it's derelict, somebodyI think AV, well, I'm not going to say, putting an AV on a vehicle does not keep it safe is the only thing I'll say. So as soon as that's on there and we have a word, we're getting that off the street as quickly as we can. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. To Deanna, Deanna, how long do we keep records for a vehicle's owner? What is our—because there are requirements in HRS, then there's requirements at the County level for how long we keep on file the registered owner of the vehicle? MS. SAKO: You mean, previous owners? I mean, because we—as long as the registration stays current and in it's in our system, you know, we maintain that information. I would have to double-check with Naomi. I didn't know that was part of the question today. You know, the State system will purge the records after so many years of nonpayment. If it's in storage or you've done something like that, it will stay in the system; but otherwise, it will eventually purge into a different file that we have to go look up. But I believe we still have access to that,to go maintain the ownership records. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I think that might be part of the solution, is figuring out—because if you know, as an owner, if your vehicle pops up on the street, because you didn't do your paperwork or it transferred and moved around. But we can track down who the owner was and go back to them and then they can help pay some of these fees that are being accrued to the towing company and to the County, then that will be beneficial to us. MS. SAKO: I believe we have a system set up that, you know, with abandoned vehicles and with the Police Department, so they all have access to the information. But if it's something that's been purged off, we can help them dig that out. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, as I read through the different sections in HRS and to the County, I realized that I don't know the amounts of time listed Page 16 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 by HRS and the County. I think they're—we're meeting minimum standards. But it could be that we could hold it for more time and be able to track down the vehicle owner at a later date, if necessary. MR. KUCHARSKI: If I could comment on that? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. MR. KUCHARSKI: What we find is that the last registered owner many times is no longer on the island, they have moved. And we don't have a system to track. We have the last address or the address when the registration was completed, but we go there and there's nobody there by that name. We have no mechanism to track down a person that is possibly living on the mainland or has moved to another county or just moved within the County. So, we don't have that mechanism. But we are required to check and to send notifications to the last registered owner, so we attempt to do that. I don't have the number of people that we find, but it's not a large number. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I justI feel that without a consequence on the last registered owner to ensure the vehicle is transferring title and making sure the vehicle doesn't end up in the wrong place or on the side of the street somewhere, that we believe those vehicles open to be found, wherever we find them. Like Maku`u, like the back of Hawaiian Acres, and they end up being, for my district, like what Oli said from Ryan K's towing, Puna cars, and we have lots of them. Okay, then next would be Police. Is anyone here from Police? Well, Deanna, maybe you can help me with Police since they didn't decide to stay and answer questions. So the Police contracts, I think what I've been hearing and what we've seen in Puna at least over the last month or two, actually for a long time, is we have vehicles starting to pile up and the towing companies they're having problems putting them somewhere. They are running out of space, and so we're starting to see cars in Maku`u. I think there are about 500 vehicles in Maku`u. From what I've gathered so far, when a towing company tows for the Police, the reimbursement is to be gathered from the person who had the vehicle left on the side of the road. If the person does not show up to get their car from the towing company, then the towing company is out the cost of the tow for labor. And then they have a vehicle and they have to go through a pretty lengthy process to be able to take possession of the vehicle, publicly announce that they have it, and then be able to junk, or park, or sell it. And then in the end if it's not useable at all, like many Puna cars are, then it ends up becoming kind of a liability for them. Now they have to take care of it, drain the liquids, take care the battery, and then have it junked. And so we've—you can see that I think that we've created almost a small problem for a very select few people in the community, but they're the ones helping us get these cars off the road. Page 17 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 So the question is for Police, is itcan I—let's just ask for hypothetical, is it fair of us to leave that cost on the towing company, knowing that, oh, that you'll get back it back when they come in and pay for the car? They'll probably not going to come in and pay for their car. So, this is the struggle. Hypotheticallydo you understand what I'm saying? MS. SAKO: I understand what you're saying, but I also understand that's what the tow companies agree to when they signed up, you know, on the program, and theyI guess that's part of the bid. So that's what was kind of spelled out. That's how it would work. But there's another category of vehicles, too. Because some of them are actually towed for evidence, and so those have like a little bit different system. And so normally the tow companies would give us a list of the vehicle, the day it was towed and the charges, and I believe their storage charges added on to that. And when they start to get like, especially longer periods of time and they've been taking up space, the Police Department will normally work with them and the Prosecutor Office, to determine if it's still needed. So either it can be junked or, you know, they can take possession of it, or we will move it to our evidence warehouse, and then we pay off the towing company at that time. So, we make good on those bills. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. What about your normal tow? When you get pulled over for Aliyah's Law, and the car gets taken into possession by the Police Department? They have it towed. It's not for evidence; it's just you were drunk, you got pulled over. MS. SAKO: Right, then they can contact the owner and try to get payment. It is a lengthy process, but yes, or they can go through the system and take possession and sell the car. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But there's no reimbursement of—so for DEM, we reimburse? You tow the car. Thank you, you did a service for us. MS. SAKO: We go back to the owner, yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: In this case, we go back to the owner butI think in most cases MS. SAKO: Yeah, I would have to look at that particular contract, if we're obligated. Not obligated but, you know, what arrangements we've made with them. Like, we'll help them track down the owner, if that's all on them. I'm not sure. Page 18 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It is. It's on the towing company to collect the fee. So is that something that could be changed? MS. SAKO: I probably—it would be good to work with Police. But yeah, I don't know why everything was set up the way it was. So everything can always be changed, but we'd obviously want to do it in conjunction. We don't want to get stuck paying all towing fees either. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, I'm going to yield for right now and let other people take over this. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. I say your light, Ms. Poindexter. MS. POINDEXTER: So, Bill, if you could come up? (Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Bill Kucharski came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. POINDEXTER: When they have an abandoned vehicle, the tow company gets called. The tow company calls the baseyard to say they're bringing in an abandoned vehicle, is that correct? MR. KUCHARSKI: We have a holding facility, yes. MS. POINDEXTER: Right. MR. KUCHARSKI: Three of them, yes. MS. POINDEXTER: Right, okay. MR. KUCHARSKI: And yes, they know where they're going to take it. MS. POINDEXTER: Right. Because I know of an incident, where Ken's Towing took a car or took a truck, called it in and said it was an abandoned vehicle but it never showed up at the baseyard. Then when the people tried to call to find out where it was, he said they took it to get demolished. I don't know where. But they wouldn't share where, they didn't want to say anything about it. So my question to you is, when you document that, is it saved? Or you guys just document, "Oh, Ken's Towing called, said the vehicle, this license plate number is coming in but it didn't show up." And then what would do with that information? MR. KUCHARSKI: I will check specifically. But my understanding is that when they are called for a tow, we have the the AV has determined that this is an abandoned vehicle. It has all the information. It has the license plate, the VIN Page 19 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 number, all of that. That vehicle is then taken to a storage yard, and that is part of our process. And we have inventory of those vehicles that are brought it. There are some instances, and I don't on this particular one, but there's a time period, if after, like three months there's no communication and that vehicle was not deemed worthy of an auction or anything, then it's just taken out and say, "Your times up," and it's disposed of. And we have records. MS. POINDEXTER: What if it doesn't even show up at your baseyard? They called in and said it was an abandoned vehicle and it didn't even show up? MR. KUCHARSKI: I have toI'm not aware of any situation like that occurring. But if you have that information, I will follow up. MS. POINDEXTER: I personally called the baseyard. They acknowledged that they did receive the call that was supposed to come in, but it never showed up. So my question is, where does that go? Because I know the vehicle. I know where that vehicle was. It was at Toyota, at Deluz Toyota. It's a whole different situation. But it was called in as an abandoned vehicle. The owners were not on island because they moved. But, you know there was that's a long story. But the bottom-line is it was called in and it never showed up. So now it's a lost, nobody know where that vehicle is. So my question is, do you keep records of it? MR. KUCHARSKI: Yes. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. MR. KUCHARSKI: As far as I know, we do. I would be very much embarrassed and shocked if that were not the case. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. Because I know I called, and they acknowledged that. So I'll follow up with you. MR. KUCHARSKI: Please. MS. POINDEXTER: Because part of what we need to do is hold these towing companies accountable. MR. KUCHARSKI Absolutely. MS. POINDEXTER: You know, all these shenanigans that go on, I'm concerned about that. So I'm glad we're keeping record, because then if that should get into a lawsuit, that's going to be used as evidence. So I'm glad that we're keeping records of that. MR. KUCHARSKI: We do, yes. Page 20 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, thank you. MR. KUCHARSKI: If you give the details, I'll get back with you direct. MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you very much. MS. LEE LOY: Ms. Poindexter, you yield? MS. POINDEXTER: I'm sorry, thank you, Chair. CHR. LEE LOY: Yeah, sure. Mr. Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Bill. And I think this more of a question for the Police. But, Deanna, we heard testimony today about the towing. And I agree what you said that people have agreed to the towing contract, but are we going to get people to renew the contract? So that is the question coming forth. I know in my district, you know, all the towing companies, they're willing to go. And you heard testimony on that today, but they are coming from Waimea or Kohala and go to Kona to pick up a tow. They don't get reimbursed for the drive; they get paid by the mile for the actual time that they're towing. And I assume here in Hilo it's going to be the same thing, which if you guys are going out to Ka`u or something, we're putting the towing company in a tough situation. Now I don't disagree that we have to—we don't get stuck with the bill. But we also are not going to have the service if we stick the towing with the bill. And this is where the problem comes, we don't have a lot of towers that are willing to service these contracts, number one. And we have to come up with a metrix that's going to work for them, otherwise we're not going to have them. It just doesn't make financial sense. MS. SAKO: No, I understand what you're saying. But I've also worked with some of the tow companies. Because, you know, we got complaints, people go to bail their cars out. MR. RICHARDS: Right. MS. SAKO: And the bills are astronomical, $800, $900. It wasn't in storage for very long, that was actually just the tow charge, and people have bailed it out. You know, but the contracts are actually rather generous with the fees that the tow companies are able to charge. So it comes down to whether or not the public's willing to get their car back. And the more valuable your vehicle, the more willing you are to, you know, bail it out. And it depends on the situation. You know, a lot of them—you know, the person got arrested and the car was left there and it had to be towed, you know, DUI(Driving Under the Influence) or whatever. I mean, Page 21 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 there's a variety of reasons for why the vehicles are towed. But, you know, I believe we do try to compensate the tow companies pretty well. The farther they go, definitely higher the payment is. MR. RICHARDS: If the towing is for a long way, I don't disagree with that, but if they have to travel a long distance, tow it a short distance, then travel back, that becomes a problem. MS. SAKO: I thought there was provisions for even where they left from to get the vehicle, but I don't have that in front of me. MR. RICHARDS: So I think this is where we have a conversion going forward, because what we don't want to do is lose all the people that were actually willing to tow. MS. SAKO: No, and I agree with you. I mean, but I'm just saying I kind of need Police or somebody here MR. RICHARDS: Correct. MS. SAKO: Because I don't know initially why some of those provisions were put in. MR. RICHARDS: So that's going to be part of the conversation going forward. Chair, I yield. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Go ahead, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This was sent to me, it's part of our Ordinance Number 11-102, Bill 98, regarding Aliyah's Law, and this is a quotation from it: "This policy change will not cost the County any money since these vehicles will be impounded at private tow yards a the expense of the violators or registered owners who allow violators use their vehicles in an illegal manner. Furthermore, this ordinance may actually save the County untold expense." So this is, this is saving a lot of expenses because we're not paying for the tow. But on the backend, the towing companies were picking that up. I think that, that at the heart, is what we are talking about today. That's also why we are seeing vehicles start to stack up on our roads. MS. SAKO: So I think it would also be interesting to see how many cars have been redeemed by the owners and what the tow companies made on those vehicles, as well. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's fair. I don't thing think they'd be in here complaining if they were banking. So I feel like—looking at—if I just Page 22 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 MS. SAKO: Just speaking of someone who has taken a lot of complaints about the amount these people have had to pay to redeem their vehicles, I do agree that the tow companies are left holding the bag on a lot of these, but I know they've also made a lot on some of the others, because we've dealt with a lot of complaints. And I'm not sayingI am very appreciative to all the tow companies and all they do, because we don't want the vehicles left on the side of the road, so I am very appreciative. I'm saying, yeah we're going to have to do something to work it out. And without Police and some others here, we're probably not going to resolve that tonight. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Any other? Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, so I think Matt and I are kind of in the same boat. So how do we move the conversation forward? We've agreed there's problems, but how do we move it forward? MS. SAKO: I don't when the contracts come out,but we can take a look at that and work with Police. I don't know if they meet regularly with the tow guys or not. But we have new people in Purchasing, and we can try and sit down and work out something that might be fair to both sides. But we have in the ordinance that it's not going to cost the County anything, and so, you know—yeah, we need to work through that somehow. MR. RICHARDS: And I like the idea that we're not signing the County up for unlimited expense, but by the same token if we don't have anybody that's willing to do the hauling or the towing, it's going to cost the County. MS. SAKO: But I know there's certain tow companies that are very good about giving us lists of the vehicles they have in that they're holding, and what the amounts were and everything, and we've trying to work with them to, you know, whittle that down. I don't know if every tow company does that. But, you know, I know Police said there are certain ones that are really good about giving them the list, and then they try to work with them. MR. RICHARDS: So if I have a list of concerns on a contract, can I deliver it to you? MS. SAKO: Um-hum. MR. RICHARDS: Alright. MS. SAKO: Yep. Page 23 PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 MR. RICHARDS: And then can you communicate back to the Council as a whole? That will work for me for a start. Matt, you have any other ? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: One follow-up, the contract with the towing companies, is that—where is the contract? MS. SAKO: I'm sorry, where is the contract physically or ? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is it held in—it's held in Police? MS. SAKO: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then it comes up every year? MS. SAKO: Right. I'm just saying I don't know when the timing is. I don't know if they had option years. I don't know what the agreement was. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm interested to know what the actual agreement is on their contract, gauging from what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing, and learning a little bit along the way. I'd be interested in seeing that contract, and if we're actually following the contract language. That would make me happy. And I agree with what Tim said, I think that would help us solve some of this and alleviate the weight on the towing companies, and make sure our roads are still safe. Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Anyone else? You know, I understand—Mr. Richards and Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, you both have asked Finance for some follow-up, but we also didn't hear from Police Department. So I'm putting it out there, as the introducer, if you want to postpone this to the next meeting to ensureoh, I see some nods to ensure that someone from Police, who has one piece to this puzzle, I'm willing to do that. Because what we have now is a motion to close file on this communication, but if you think we've gone far enough, I am willing to hear some conversation around that. If not, we are getting late and we still have one more committee to go. MR. RICHARDS: Chair, I would certainly entertain that, but this is Mr. Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder's communication. Motion to Postpone: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to postpone Comm. 796 to March 24, 2020. Seconded by Mr. Richards. Page 24 i i PWMTC-20 March 10,2020 i I Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Comm. 796 to March 24, 2020, to Postpone: was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder Kierkiewicz, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy—7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung and Eoff—2. Excused: None. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. i (There were none.) i BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) CHR. LEE LOY: I think that takes us to the end of the agenda. If I could have a motion to adjourn? ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 5:25 p.m., Ms. David moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder Kierkiewicz, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy—7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung and Eoff—2. Excused: None. CHR. LEE LOY: Alright, meeting is adjourned at 5:25 p.m. Thank you. Approved: 4S. . K. LZ Loy, 'r (Date) s and ass Transit o mittee SLlna Page 25