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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-07-11 Hearing Transcript - Charles Umemoto REZ 19-235WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT JULY 11, 2019 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of CHARLES UMEMOTO (REZ 19-000235) was called to order at 9:02 a.m. in the County of Hawaii Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawaii with Chairman Joseph Clarkson presiding. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Gilbert Aguinaldo, Dean Au, Joseph Clarkson, John Replogle. ABSENT & EXCUSED: Donn Dela Cruz, Thomas Raffipiy. ALSO PRESENT: Michael Yee (Planning Director), Malia Hall (Deputy Corporation Counsel for the Windward Planning Commission), Jeff Darrow (Planning Program Manager), Christian Kay (Planner), Alex Roy (Planner), and Sarah Hata-Finley (Commission Secretary). And 12 members from the public in attendance. APPLICANT: CHARLES UMEMOTO (REZ 19-000235) Application for a Change of Zone from an Agricultural -3 acres (A -3a) to a Single -Family Residential -10,000 square feet (RS -10) zoning district for 7.631 acres of land. The subject property is located at the end of Mailani Street, on the west side of Ho'omalu Street, Waiakea Homesteads, South Hilo District, Hawai'i, TMK: (3) 2-4-080:013. CLARKSON: And with that, we'll proceed to the first item on today's agenda which will be presented by Alex. ROY: Good morning, Commissioners. Today we're going to be talking about a Change of Zone application, Rezone No. 19-000235 for Charles Umemoto. This is a location map. You can see down here is the site in the Waiakea Homesteads land area south of Hilo. At this time, the Applicant is requesting a Change of Zone from Agricultural — 3 acres to Single -Family Residential — 10,000 square feet or RS -10. The reason for the request is that the Applicant intends to subdivide the property into 27 separate lots as well as one road lot for the Mailani Street Extension. The Applicant intends to have the lots on the market for sale by November 2019. Here's a County zoning map of the area. Outlined in black is the property in question. As you can see, the zoning in this area is heavily residential with lots of RS -10, RS -15, RS -10. These A -la's are also typically residential properties even though they are zoned Agriculture. Currently, the property is zoned A-3 [a] as you can see a number of the properties in this area are also zoned A -3a. EXHIBIT A The State Land Use Boundary Map is Urban. The entire area is Urban. The General Plan or the LUPAG shows it as Low Density Urban. So, again the entire area, as you can see, is all Low Density Urban in the LUPAG. Here's an aerial photograph of the property showing a little bit of the surrounding parcels. As you can see, there are a number of residential structures all around this parcel here. Right now, it is completely undeveloped. There are no structures. It appears it was graded at one time, but now it is pretty heavily overgrown and filled with trees and such. There is no access either. Right now, there's a fence at Mailani Street up here at the north side of the property. This is the Mailani Street Extension which will end up coming into the property. Right now, this is all fenced off, so there's no access to the site. Here's a site plan of the proposed subdivision. As you can see, there is the road parcel and then the 27 separate lots that will be part of this new subdivision. Just take note that the Mailani Street Extension will end at Abe Street here. It will not cut through. This property here, this is a driveway that goes through a private parcel, so there was no discussion nor intent to make that connection at this time. This is a view of the property from Mailani Street looking south, so you can see the signage for the proposed use and the property well overgrown. This is a view of Mailani Street looking north away from the property, and then I took a shot of the existing street curb, gutter, and sidewalk so that you could get an idea of what is proposed for the Mailani Street Extension. At this time, the Planning Director's recommendation is to forward a favorable recommendation to the County Council for the Change of Zone Application 19-235. Questions? CLARKSON: Any questions from the Commission for staff? AU: Mr. Chair, I have a question. Can you go back to that slide? At the map, please? And, you mentioned that Mailani Street is going to end at the proposed subdivision. Is that correct? ROY: Yes, it's going to, Mailani Street will be extended through—you know, it ends right here. Right now, this is where that fence was, so it will extend on through and end here right at this property boundary. This street doesn't actually exist. It's a, this is the portion of the street that ends and then there's a little bit of a driveway, a dirt driveway that goes onto private property here. AU: So that street that you just pointed the pointer at, it's actually a County road, but it's just not ROY: Yeah AU: usable. EXHIBIT A 2 ROY: Yeah, it's not usable right now so there was no discussion, and we didn't receive any comments regarding its use or future use. AU: Okay, thank you. CLARKSON: I have a question. I'd just like to see the aerial photo one more time if you would. ROY: Down below, down here is the [inaudible] extension. You can see a little bit. It's hard to kind of see there's a driveway and it kind of goes into, there's a property right here. CLARKSON: But that is a County -owned right-of-way? ROY: It is, and it goes across here as well as one across here as part of the Waiakea Homesteads future plan. But, again, we never received no comments or discussion about the use of that street down there and that this extension would be sufficient to service the subdivision. AU: Question, Mr. Chair. So, I noticed reading the recommendations, there's nothing that says anything about flooding. There's no issues with flooding or anything? ROY: It was brought to my attention from a resident in the area who declined to make an official statement that there was some possibilities of flooding from this property up into this area here. Kind of the northeast quadrant. But, I did not receive anything official. I didn't find anything, and it doesn't appear that gentleman came here to testify. So, that's all that I was told, but there could be—there's a small rise, the morphology of the site. If you go out there, you see that there's a, it's like, hill in this area. So, it begs that you get some sheet flow coming off of this property. So, drainage, would need to be managed properly when this subdivision is created. Yeah, Public Works also said it was all in Zone "X" so it's in an area of minimal flood hazard. CLARKSON: Any further questions for staff? If not, thank you. Will the Applicant or their representative please come forward? Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter before the Planning Commission today? LINDNER: Yes, I do. CLARKSON: Please state your name and your relationship to the application and proceed, please. LINDNER: My name is Craig Lindner. Helping and working with Charles Umemoto to process the change of zoning. CLARKSON: Did you receive the Background Report from the Planning Department, and do you agree with the recommendations in it? LINDNER: Yes, we have received that and agree. EXHIBIT A 3 CLARKSON: If you have no presentation, are there any questions from the Commission for the Applicant, his representative? I have a question if there are none others, and it's related to traffic again. Based on previous conversations about connectivity and the fact that this—is it Mailani Mailani Street Extension is going to dead-end, why there is no turnaround or way for people that go down that street to return without going into somebody's driveway or why, or correct me if I'm wrong, was there any, I don't remember it, but was there any requirement that the connecting road be completed? LINDNER: No, it was not requested or required. The initial plan was to come in off that street and dead-end there. CLARKSON: Just that way it is now only two blocks further down. LINDNER: Yeah, extension of 912 feet longer. CLARKSON: Okay. AU: Mr. Chair, I have a question. My question is in regards to cost. I noticed that you put down that cost is going to be about $475,000 to develop it. Can you just talk about that? What does that entail? Are you going clear the property? Are you going to put underground, overhead utilities? What—what does that $475,000 entail? LINDNER: The $475,000 is basically the amount to construct the road, do the drainage study, put in the curbs, gutters, sidewalks, water, and power. That does not include the amount of money for the rezoning. That's a separate issue. AU: Okay, thank you. CLARKSON: Any further questions from the Commission? If not, thank you. Please be seated. At this time, we have six people wishing to testify. I'm going to call up the first four—Ralph Yoshizumi, Dwight Vicente, Chris Yamasaki, and Patrick Gorman. Actually, we only have five people. We still only have four chairs. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter before the Commission today? YOSHIZUMI/YAMASAKI/GORMAN: Yes/I do. VICENTE: [No response.] CLARKSON: Thank you. Please let the record note that Mr. Vicente is unsworn. We'll start on my left. Would you introduce yourself, sir, and proceed with your testimony. YAMASAKL My name is Chris Yamasaki. I'm a resident on Kikaha Street, which is one street above Mailani. One of my questions here that—oh, please forgive me, this is the first time I'm doing this, but, one of the questions is that you mentioned that they're going to put I guess traditional sidewalks as far as infrastructure for the street, but I hear no mention of ADA compliance for the sidewalks. Is that something that's going to be also included? Because, EXHIBIT A 4 currently, there is no access for handicapped people to utilize the sidewalks. They have no entry way or exit way from each block. CLARKSON: We'll follow up with that after we hear testimony from this group of people. VICENTE: Good morning, my name is Dwight Vicente representing the Hawaiian Kingdom. These are the lease lands at the, was leased to Waiakea Mill or Sugar Plantation. It's over 10,000 acres that under King Kalakaua was leased out for a term of 25 years. So, when the lease ended, the plantation claimed they owned the land which is a false, falsehood. That's how you have the homestead going on. Till today, it's still Kingdom land. These are actually Crown Lands. Still belonging to the Hawaiian Kingdom, fall under the jurisdiction of the Hawaiian Kingdom. In 1898, it was not lands ceded to the United States --the 1,750,000 acres. Those lands did not have a lease contract on where this land in particular, the Crown land, has lease contract, which ended in 1915 and, therefore, is not a part of the State of Hawaii or the County of Hawaii nor was it ceded to the United States and incorporated under Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution. So, this has a status of Kingdom, yet even this land that this building is on, where this meeting is held, is still a Hawaiian Kingdom. You're not, you should be relocated to Hawaiian Home Lands. So, your decisions here is questionable because you're making decisions in the wrong jurisdiction, and you're dealing with the lands that the political question belongs to the Hawaiian Kingdom rather than the County of Hawaii or the State of Hawaii. How they're getting away with it? They're using the State Land Use Commission. Then they use the County Planning Commission to use their power to—go over the Great Divide of 1898, which is a joint resolution. So, the, these lands are not speculated on, and they all have Native Tenant Rights attached to them. Because these lands was never ceded. The other lands has a Public Trust Doctrine, and the Public Trust Doctrine comes from the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. So, the—and the Northwest Ordinance was based on the Indian removal, and the "white man" was going to occupy the lands, and it goes back to the Revolutionary War where the Continental Congress promised those civilians that fought the Revolutionary War was going to be given lands. The only problem was the lands was not in the 13 colonies. It was lands in the Ohio River Valley that the Indians occupied. It's a strange concept. Thomas Jefferson, Monroe, and Dane, that's the plan that became the Northwest Ordinance. It was adopted by the Congress under Articles of Confederation, and the U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2. This is how they created the State of Hawaii and do all the things that they do under—you can go back to Downes vs. Bidwell. That's 182 U.S., I don't know what page it's on, though. And, it'll say that the United States is not only a constitutional republic, but it is also a kingdom under the Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2. With this, I'll end with the reservation of the rights of this Kingdom under Queen's Protest of January 17, 1893, against U. S. Minister Stevens. It has yet to make its way to the U.S. Supreme Court, and the other one is the 1898 Joint Resolution. It's unconstitutional because the U.S. doesn't have jurisdiction to cede or receive lands that belong to the Hawaiian Kingdom. And, the other one is the Reciprocity Treaty of 1898, King Kalakaua and the U.S. President did not EXHIBIT A 5 sign. And, in 1820, President Monroe appointed Jon C. Jones as the agent for the U.S. and sent over the missionary families and the U.S. Navy. Thank you. GORMAN: Hi, I am Pat Gorman, Mike. I live on Kikaha in the corner of Pukana and Kikaha across from Chris. My main concern was that I thought that there was a possibility of the Kikaha Street being extended only and the park, the congestion at the park all the time with that, so, I'm glad to see that that's not happening. The other thing is with what the Chairman had mentioned, is a turnaround up on Mailani Street, because currently, anybody going up Mailani has to kind of turn around in driveways, and I'm sure that's not appreciated because there are vehicles parked there, and all that and so I think a turnaround up at the other end of the development would be a really nice thing to do for the neighborhood. Another concern might beI don't know how addressable it is, but the use of the park by the folks moving in with children, will they create other pathways to get to the park that go through other people's property. Right now, a lot of kids do walls to the park from all various areas, and I don't know how that works out with people in the area as far as is there any cutting through? I never hear any complaints, but this might cause some of that because of, it's not developed on the one side, and so you might get some of that. It's just, just a thought. I guess that's about it for me. YOSHIZUML Good morning. I have a few questions, some of them were stated by Chris and Pat. CLARKSON: Please introduce yourself. YOSHIZUML I'm Ralph Yoshizumi. I live on Kikaha Street. My main concern here tonight, today was to make sure that no roads was going to go through Kikaha to connect to the new subdivision, and I just want to have that thing made clear, if the gentleman representing the company that's doing the subdivision, if definitely Kikaha Street will not be included in this addition to the new subdivision? [Turning to Mr. Lindner.] LINDNER (from audience): It's not included. YOSHIZUML Can we put that in writing? HALL: It's already on the map, sir. YOSHIZUML Secondly, Chris mentioned the fact about handicap, ADA driveways or sidewalks. I'm the only one in the Ahualani Community Association that has an ADA approved driveway, and the County forced me to put that in. I live on the corner, okay? Normally, the ADA sidewalk would recess along the corner of the intersection. Mine is my driveway is the ADA approved entry point for anyone that wants to use it, and the County forced me to put it in back in 19[inaudible] 2001. Right after the big flood. Okay? So, yeah, I think we need EXHIBIT A 6 because people come with bikes or whatever, they come on my driveway to go onto the sidewalk `cause there's nothing available. So, that is an issue I think should be brought up and should be looked at. Are you wondering why the County forced me to put it in? I redid my driveway after the big flood and I wanted it— right now, if you look at all the sidewalks, they have that hump, the swale. I wanted mine flat because it was taking a toll on my tires, and when the contractor came and did my driveway, the County inspector came, no pass. You have to abide by the ADA rules. So, my driveway had to go further up with a gradual slope all the way down. So, that's why I have the only approved ADA driveway in our subdivision of a 93 homes. So, that is something to look it, `cause we have a lot of walkers in our subdivision that walls daily, and a lot of them end up walking on the street because there's no way to get off the, onto the sidewalk without—especially older people. And, the greatest injury to older people are falls. So, no level, no level footing to walls on. Okay. And, also I understand, Mailani would be the only entrance and exit for this new subdivision. Correct? Okay, hopefully, they will put a turnaround on the end. Thank you. CLARKSON: Thank you all. Are there any questions before we get to their questions for the testifiers? AU: Yes, I haveno, I don't have a questions for the testifier. CLARKSON: Well, if we have no further questions, I would like to have staff address ROY: With regards to the ADA sidewalks, the new road shall conform to, that's Chapter 22, Streets [and] Sidewalks of the Hawaii County Code. The interior paved subdivision road will be installed with curbs, gutters, and sidewalks that meet with the approval of the Department of Public Works and will follow their guidelines and guidance, which includes ADA. CLARKSON: So, that's Condition F addresses this in the conditions of approval. So the curbs, gutters and sidewalks do have to meet ADA standards. Kikaha Street, just for my information, can we, can you point out which street that is? Oh, okay. ROY: So, there was no discussion or intent because Kekaha Street goes into another parcel of land that's not part of this project. CLARKSON: But, you did indicate that there is in the future a County right-of-way that does extend from that street. ROY: Yeah, yes, there is a County right-of-way that goes all the way down through here. It goes all the way down through here then crosses through here. CLARKSON: Okay. EXHIBIT A 7 ROY: Although I'll note that there are a number of dead -ends, but they do have the cul-de-sacs. In fact, when I was coming into this property here to try to get photographs of this side, to get from this point to this point was actually pretty difficult. You had to kind of go all the way around. CLARKSON: Okay, thank you. Any—there was another issue of informal pathways cutting through undeveloped property. Where is the park? ROY: I'm not sure where this park is. YOSHIZUML Go back couple, go back couple clicks. ROY: Let's go to the aerial photograph. CLARKSON: Where—yeah, the aerial, okay, oh ROY: Oops, sorry. YOSHIZUML Back it up one. ROY: One more, there we go, and—there we go. CLARKSON: So, the green rectangle bordering HALL: It looks like they're just going to walls through that empty lot up Kikaha ROY: So, again, people would be walking here to get to this park. I'm not sure if people would need to traverse that private property. CLARKSON: Well, I can certainly imagine kids not wanting to go four blocks when a half block shortcut would do it. What is the—well, never mind. Any further questions for these testifiers? If not, we'll— AU: Mr. Chair CLARKSON: Oh AU: Mr. Chair, I have a question real quick. Can you residents just point out where you live on Kikaha Street? I'm just curious about that. [Testifiers (Gorman, Yamasaki, Yoshizumi) walked up to the presentation screen. Inaudible comments. ] HALL: Oh, you CLARKSON: —You need to EXHIBIT A 8 HALL: need to speak into the mic. CLARKSON: Speak into the microphone, please. GORMAN: [Inaudible.] CLARKSON: No, we have to do a transcript of every word. GORMAN: Oh, great. Oh, geez, okay. One of the, one of the thoughts is nobody's ever complained that I'm aware of as far as parking goes with the park. We all realize that it's a, it's a necessity in the community, and a lot of people use it. They walk there. The drive, they ride their bikes there. They get there by car. During athletic seasons of various sorts, the road is congested at both, on both sides, and I've never heard anybody in the neighborhood complain about it, and we don't complain about it, because we want it to be used. But, one of the concerns was if the road extended through Kikaha, there's going to be a big problem. You've got people crossing the road all the time when there's congestion there, with coolers, with chairs, with baseball equipment, etc., and it could present a problem because it's one of the only parks that I know of that has no parking within the park itself. I live down, a couple streets down on the corner of Kikaha and Pukana. It's off the map here, but if they, if they went to a different map here, we could show where each of us lives. CLARKSON: Okay, thank you. If there are no further questions, we'll ask the next group of testifiers to please come forward. HALL: You have to move forward. CLARKSON: If you wish to ask a question, please sign up to testify if you haven't already, and then you could SERAIN (from audience): I did. HALL: Okay, come forward. CLARKSON: Okay, you'll be coming up right now then, sir. So, Jay Serain SERAIN: Yes. CLARKSON: Joelle Lee SERAIN: S -e -r -a -i -n, Scram. CLARKSON: Yeah—and Sharon Chong, please come forward. Would you please raise your right hands? Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will provide today will be the truth? EXHIBIT A 9 TESTIFIERS: Yes. CLARKSON: Thank you. Please proceed, Mr. Serain. SERAIN: Question that I have right now and I'm, we have confirmed with—they'll be no through street to Kikaha, but my question is, by looking at the property itself, it's kind of rectangle, where is the main road actually going to go through? HALL: It's right in the middle. SERAIN: Right in the middle? CLARKSON: Right down the center. SERAIN: Okay, so it's off Kikaha then. HALL: No, Mailani. CLARKSON: Please use your microphone. HALL: I know, I'm sorry. SERAIN (near presentation screen): Okay, this is [inaudible]. HALL: Above. AGUINALDO: Right above. HALL: Above. SERAIN (near presentation screen): Okay, so it's above, right? HATA-FINLEY: Sir HALL: Yeah, come to the mic, please. CLARKSON: Please use SERAIN (near presentation screen): So HALL: You have to come to the table. Sorry, come to the table. You have to use the microphone. CLARKSON: We'll give you a pointer if that's necessary. [Mr. Serain was given the laser pointer.] EXHIBIT A 10 HALL: Oh. How about you just point for him, Alex? Alex will point for you. SERAIN: Okay, if you, if I'm reading the map right, Kikaha is on the bottom, right, okay, so where is that main street? Okay. So, it's—it's off Kikaha, the main street, right? So, there's no road actually coming down leading to Kikaha. Am I right? Okay, so that's, that's the main issue in terms of where that main road is going to go through. But, however, I hope there's no hidden agenda that seeking to open up another road to Kikaha. My concern would be health and safety issue because right now, people use that street to and from the park, not only the senior citizens, as well as toddlers using the park. And, having a through street, make it where you have probably triple the amount of public traffic coming through a non -through street. So, it's a big concern for the residents in that area. So, I hope that it clarifies it that there's no road connecting to Kikaha. Okay? Thank you. LEE: I'm Joelle Lee, and actually, can you pull back to the one that has like the actual picture? HALL: The aerial. LEE: Sorry, I'm going to point where I live real fast. LEE (near presentation screen): Right there. LEE: So, I have a couple concerns. One is if there is a thoroughfare going through, I'm assuming it would probably be right by our home in between because we do have a little bit of that County land on that side. So, for us, I just, I don't like the increased traffic. And, then, I was a little bit concerned. I wanted to know about the covenants, like if there is going to be a certain amount of square footage, if it's going to be used as rental properties? Because we really want to keep the value of our homes up, and I'm afraid that if there is too many rental properties there, that it will decrease, or it will decline. And, the last thing is because of where we are, I'm concerned about the flood. I want to ensure that water is not going to be going into our property. CLARKSON: Thank you. CHONG: Good morning. I, Sharon Chong, is a resident of [stated address] Kikaha Street. I do not agree that Kikaha Street should be a through street. We have a lot of cars that goes to the park daily to play baseball. They play basketball, volleyball. You have baseball players. They time the players running on the side of the streets, etc. There's too much activities going on at the park. There's no parking. Cars already are parked along the street which is, which cause the congestion, you know? When they turn, they turn right around the street. There's no way to turn. Also, opening the street at the top is wrong and will cause a lot of traffic which we already have, and especially in the morning at the 4 -way stop or where we come out, it's going to be even EXHIBIT A 11 longer. It's really a congestion right there at the 4 -way stop. Coming from Kikaha Street and you go down, and you're going to open that place, those streets up, even Mailani, there's going to be congestion, real big. And, we're waiting long time. One person already told me he waited over an hour and a half just to go to an appointment in the morning. Thank you. CLARKSON: Thank you, all. Any questions for these testifiers? REPLOGLE: I do. I is the park mauka of the property or makai? CHONG: Where I live? REPLOGLE: No, I see the park up there. CHONG: Yeah. REPLOGLE: And, as I'm looking at it, I'm moving it like this, so the park would be mauka of the new subdivision. But, it could be turned around. Just a matter of how the photo is. ROY: I think the overall site photo would give you a better idea. If you look down at the site here— REPLOGLE: Yes. ROY: You can see the little white square is the park. REPLOGLE: Yeah, okay. So, it is makai. ROY: If you drew the shoreline actually, kind of in-line with eachother. HALL: It's like mauka and makai at the same time. CLARKSON: It's mauka as you're going down HALL: —Yeah, yeah CLARKSON: toward Kanoelehua. HALL: Yeah, yeah, mauka. AU: I have a question for a testifier. Ms. Lee, you mentioned that you have a County right-of- way on your property? Is that what you have? LEE: Well, so—sorry [grabbing microphone]. We have our rock wall, but we had to keep like however many feet off of it so we must have like about this much that we didn't build on and that's not being used, and it goes straight through to the property on, behind us, which is that first green parcel, if that makes sense. No, not the first green. EXHIBIT A 12 AU: The first proposed development. LEE: Yeah. HALL: The first lot, yeah. AU: So, it's not a County right-of-way. LEE: Well, my husband says it is a County right-of-way. That like, the County said we cannot use that part so like literally our rock wall is here, and then you have this much. AU: So, it's an easement. LEE: Yes or something. AU: So, it's an easement for something. Hmm, interesting. CLARKSON: Okay, I have a question for staff Could we go back to the view of the area? Not that one. The one—oh—that one, right there. I noticed that there's a mix of connecting streets and cul-de-sacs all through this area. Is there a connecting cul-de-sac general plan for the Ag -3 acre area of which this property is part to let everybody know which streets are eventually going to be connected and which streets are not ever going to be connected. DARROW: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. The—the way that this works, just to kind of give a little bit of background, is as these properties are developed, at that point, comments are sent out to the different agencies, and we receive comments back especially regarding connectivity. So, as these other Ag -3, which are the light blue properties, are developed, those other roads will require to be connected, to provide connectivity. So, there's a lot of discussion about Kikaha Street today when that light blue property just to the left of the subject property is developed. We can assume that at that point, they're gonna require connectivity of Kikaha Street coming down to the County right-of-way that's on the lower portion of the map. The same thing with those lower light blue properties as they begin to develop both Kikaha and Mailani Street will be connected down to, I believe that's Haihai Street on the bottom. And, then hopefully, the County will provide that connectivity or the developer of the one that's coming across Abe Street. But, as far as an overall, you know, subdivision layout plan, that occurs as these come in, and they, you know, they're—it's really unknown until the requested zoning comes in. These people could request lower density, some times higher density, and then they have to adjust accordingly for the particular density. CLARKSON: Well, the reason why I asked that question is as I see a mix of dead-end streets with cul-de-sacs, and yet from what you're telling me, the main—you project that there will be no cul-de-sacs in any of the subdivisions that come in that Ag -3 acre area, that all streets will extend fully and connect to all the others. EXHIBIT A 13 DARROW: It really depends on what happens during a particular process. And, again, when you see a lot of the cul-de-sacs in the upper areas, if there is an ability to provide connectivity through a Change of Zone or through some sort of action, then they can request that that connectivity be required. Like, let's say on the top part where you see the lack of connectivity, that probably was existing zoning, the subdivider came in, there was no connectivity planned on the lower portion, so they provided the cul-de-sacs. And, then eventually when the lower one came in, you couldn't go through a private property—you're already, at that point, your option is limited. So, they have to provide that type of cul-de-sac as well. As far as an overall plan, when a subdivision comes in, their goal is to provide connectivity. Most times, they are able to provide that, but there are times that their options are limited as far as cul-de-sac layouts. In this particular case that we're looking at for the light blue, that's why we're not asking for Mailani to be a cul-de-sac or a turnaround. Because we want to be able to provide that option in the future, just as the subdivision to the north did, to provide that connectivity as additional actions are done on those properties. CLARKSON: Okay, thank you. CanI just have one more question for Alex. Going back to the proposed subdivision plan for the parcel, I noticed that there are one -two -three, five lots that would be normally fronting the right-of-way for the Kikaha Street Extension that have—they are flag lots to get access from Mailani Street. And, yet, Jeff has said that Kikaha will eventually be extended if anybody ever subdivides the adjacent parcel. What effect will that have on access to those five lots? ROY: Yeah, I was going to say, they would most likely be provided access at that time, but one could argue that we don't know when that would be subdivided, so, as that's in private property. It's unsure if this would be subdivided into similar type of lots. So, it's unsure, but I would assume that. Yeah, if this was to open up, as with Abe Street, that these people would be provided that access. CLARKSON: Okay, thank you. AU: Mr. Chair, I got two questions. Question for Alex first. Regarding those five flag lots, so right now they're considered flag lots with the proposed development. So, in the future Kikaha opens up, someone develops, and those particular five flag lots will have two accesses for their property? And, is that allowed? ROY: Yeah, I'm not sure if that's allowed. DARROW: So, what most likely will happen is they would ask the developer to resubdivide those particular lots or the owners would have to make a decision whether or not they wanted access on Kikaha or on Mailani, and at that point, a subdivision would have to occur which changes that particular allowance for access. That occurs not too often, but it occurs on an occasion where we get a subdivision just to identify an additional access. If it's similar to this particular case where they now have an option to go on a main road instead of a flag lot. EXHIBIT A 14 AU: Second question. Ms. Lee, you mentioned flooding. Can you show me where it floods or? LEE: I'm just concerned that as they build and all of that that it's going to mess up our lot. I just don't want it to touch our lot. That's all. I mean, I prove or disprove. I don't know anything about flooding. I just don't want it to happen. Because I know that Ralph has a neighbor where they built behind him, and now like constantly, he still has water running out of his house, because of how they redirected the water. I don't want that happening. YEE: So, let me address—these are comments for both the audience and for the folks asking some of the direct questions. For drainage, which is often a concern of neighbors around new development, there is always a condition, and in this case, there is a condition around drainage and that DPW signs off A lot of times people want to know the details at this point. There are no details. That comes later after they get approval and then they have to submit their drainage plan, and DPW signs off on that. I encourage you if you are really concerned, you stay in tune with that with DPW. This is a Change of Zone, so we do not get into are you building a specific house this way or are you renting. That's not what we decide. We decide on what zone change, and with whatever is allowed within that zone, they will be allowed to do. So, I can't drill down into well, is it going to be rental or not. That's not the purview of what we can control from here. Just to let you know about that. And, then, I think that was it for my general comments. Oh, Kikaha, the—it's come up with several folks around the extension and Kikaha. As Alex had said, it goes into a different [inaudible] right now, so it's not being addressed. From a higher level Planning standpoint, and I need the community to understand this, and you may totally disagree, but we really look for connectivity, and whether or not it occurred in certain neighborhoods before, you know, certainly as we move forward, I do not want to repeat past mistakes. The greater connectivity is, is better for the entire community, okay? So, people who want to create giant cul-de-sacs `cause they don't want people driving through is not generally a good urban planning, you know, tool We want roads connected. We want to give people alternatives to move around. And, so, when we have right-of-ways and stuff and future plans for Abe Street, Kikaha, that could occur. At the time there's a proposal is the time that you come forward again and provide comments. But, you need to know that from a County standpoint, from a Planning standpoint, we tend to support connectivity, okay? And, so, unless it's truly a part if somebody owns a property, we're going to be looking for connectivity. So, just a general planning SERAIN: —Can I ask you a question, please? YEE: Microphone, please. SERAIN: Yeah, you indicated that, you know, connectivity. You know, it's always a possibility of connectivity. But, when you go through this process of connectivity, you're taking into consideration in terms of what the County is going to do for the community to ensure that there is an addressing their health and safety, because you are already bringing not only the people EXHIBIT A 15 who are going to be resident, you are also inviting the other public to use access to it. So, you're having possibly a double or triple accessibility. Now, do you have a plan possibly to address this in the future to ensure that these residents have, you know, the, like parking, or whatever you, you know for this, for this residents. Not just shoving it down their throats here. I'm sorry, we're going to put this road through. You know, I'm, you know, we're not going to be responsible for it. I think you do need to be responsible, including planning. So, I'm hoping that, you know, this would be a consideration. YEE: Well, sir, I would say part of that process of public information is exactly this venue, right? And, the ability for what we're requiring in terms of notice to neighbors and stuff So, that public process of involving folks is part of this process. Clearly, yes, there is some assumptions Planning makes around connectivity and stuff, and we welcome the comments for what is best, okay? Again, without a proposal in front of us, we don't know what it is. A certain proposal for another development will demand a traffic study, right? And, so we get more details. Again, every project is a little different, but we do aim to try to get community engagement on every project. I just wanted to provide a little information to the public today. AGUINALDO: Mr. Chair, I have a question. Alex, can you go back to the slide where—the other one with the cul-de-sacs. Okay, right over here. Jeff and Alex, you see where RS -10 we have a cul-de-sac? Come down, right there. Is it possible because from hearing the testifiers, yes, they gotta comply with DPW, Engineering for all the roadway, all that, with the representative of the developer. Now, their concern is—for me, what if get one fire? Okay, can a fire truck—are they thinking the developer and representative thinking can they turn around? Can that fire truck turn around? How wide is the road? Have they thought about how wide is that road? Can, is it possible—it almost looks like one roundabout. If they do one, one cul-de- sac, you still like can, is it possible to stay like connect to that—not roundabout to that cul-de- sac? Because it's unknown for future, can we still like connect to that cul-de-sac later on. Why? Because I see their concern. People, even I go—if I go to somebody's place, you gotta reverse into their driveway because the developer and consultants only think about them for right now. Later on is later on. But, would that be possible? Have that been looked at? ROY: It wasn't specifically discussed, but AGUINALDO: We should because they already had a survey, survey plan. ROY: Yeah, but I'll remind that, Commissioner, that this right now is an existing dead end and has been dead end for some time, and this subdivision was created in 1974. AGUINALDO: Right. ROY: Long before we had the current rules and regulations guiding connectivity. AGUINALDO: Right, but is that a problem or can or cannot? ROY: Well, I would expect the people here if that's a problem, they would hopefully provide that information to us that right now living at the dead-end street— EXHIBIT A 16 AGUINALDO: —Right ROY: is difficult. I live on a dead-end street. AGUINALDO: Right. ROY: I think a lot of people do, but, yeah, that's an existing dead-end street, but connectivity as I, you know, stated previously, trying to get around is very difficult in this area because these subdivisions all were done at different times1970's AGUINALDO: —Right ROY: 50's, the 80's, all with different sets of regulations. So AGUINALDO: —But, can we connect to a cul-de-sac is what I'm trying to say. ROY: This— AGUINALDO: Or, tie in later on. ROY: This cul-de-sac here? AGUINALDO: No, I just giving a reference example if you did one right there. Why? Because, that was in the past, but how you going turn around one fire truck? How you going turn around one ambulance in an emergency? CLARKSON: Could we—could we go to the proposed subdivision plan? AGUINALDO: One more, right there, boom. CLARKSON: If there was a cul-de-sac at the end of the Mailani Street Extension, would that interfere with future connectivity to the County right-of-way that goes right by those end lots? AU: Mr. Chair, point of order, I think a lot of this stuff we're doing, we can do in discussion maybe? Maybe we can close public testimony and then start discussing? CLARKSON: We'll do that soon. This gentleman, it looks like he has further testimony. YOSHIZUML Yeah, I'm Ralph Yoshizumi. I'm glad what you brought up. Okay, I'm an ex - fireman, and that street, is it 900 feet long? From the start of the new, where Mailani ends to the last house, is it like something like 900 feet? Ever try turning a truck or reversing a fire truck 900 something feet? Cause there's no way they're going to be able to turn around without a cul- de-sac. You don't want a fire truck reversing into somebody's driveway. So, my question is and I understand there's two types of cul-de-sacs—one is made for residential vehicles to turn EXHIBIT A 17 around, and one is made for emergency vehicles to turn around. So, that'sI'm glad you brought it up. I'm glad you brought it up. But, that is a concern from a safety and welfare issue. CLARKSON: Thank you. YOSHIZUML That's 900 that's what almost a quarter of a mile. CLARKSON: Well, let me ask one further question that relates to this. The—there's a condition about the proposed Mailani Street Extension. Now, this is a rezone. Isn't it possible that, that if the Council or between the time the Commission sends, if we were to send a favorable recommendation, that this subdivision map could completely change that the access could be proposed from a different area and that the lot sizes and orientation could be completely different than what is shown here as an illustration. Is that not true? DARROW: The, I mean, anything could happen. I mean, even at this meeting. You folks can say you know we don't want to see this access from Mailani, we want to see it from Kikaha, and that could go up to Council. Highly unlikely because that's not the proposed layout for number one, for the subdivision that's being proposed; number two, it doesn't make sense. What makes sense in this particular layout is Mailani Extension. In regards to, you know, the fire issue, that's—all of that is addressed, as Michael said, this is like we're at a higher level, first thing we're dealing with is zoning. Is this appropriate to be rezoned to residential in this area. When this comes down to the subdivision level, they have to go through the drainage studies. They have to propose the layout that has to meet Fire Code in regards to turnarounds, in regards to layout of the subdivision. They may ask them to put some sort of turnaround at the end temporarily until there is connection in the future. I'm not sure if that's what they'll do or not, or if they will say this is sufficient for us to back out. Again, I'm just not sure, but we depend upon the expertise of these agencies as we go through the further steps of providing the finished product. CLARKSON: Thank you. Any further questions for any of the testifiers? If not, thank you. Please be seated. Is there anyone else who wishes to testify on this matter today? If not, I'll ask for a motion that public testimony be closed. AU: Motion to close public testimony. AGUINALDO: I second. CLARKSON: All those in favor? COMMISSIONERS: Aye. CLARKSON: Opposed? Public testimony is closed. At this time, do we have any other questions for staff or discussion? REPLOGLE: Yes. EXHIBIT A 18 CLARKSON: Okay. REPLOGLE: I'm not sure who would address this, but though the testimony, I kept hearing about the active use of this park, and I think that's great, and parking, and I don't know if the person developing this particular development is the same landowner of the rest of the three -acre zoned ag parcels, and I realize the other subdivisions were built long ago. But, wouldn't it be wise to create a parking area at that corner near the park that could also serve as the turnaround for the fire trucks and ambulances? And, if that's a County easement, if I'm correct, that's the lady's house on the corner by the park? On the left side. LEE (from audience): So, we are right there. [Ms. Lee used the pointer to indicate where she lives.] REPLOGLE: Oh, you're there? LEE (from audience): Yes. REPLOGLE: Okay, well, there and the house below or above you, if there was a walking easement through there that was maintained, then the people who go to the park that would be a place and it could serve two purposes for the use of the fire truck. And, I realize I'm asking the developer or the landowner to give up something, but they are going to have the advantage of having a park within shouting distance. Anyway, that's my take. DARROW: Commissioner Replogle, I'm not sure if that can work. Number one is it would require an off-site easement that would have to be provided by other people to go through their property to provide access to the park area. REPLOGLE: That's not an easement with those dotted lines? DARROW: No, it's not an easement, yeah. So, there— REPLOGLE: Excuse me, just, I'm not contradicting you, but this lady said there was some County easement there? DARROW: She has this easement right here going through—you have a side easement, and what is that easement for? It's [Inaudible comments by Ms. Lee.] DARROW: It's, yeah, there's a chance that could be a utility easement. CLARKSON: Microphone, please. LEE: All I can say is that my husband said it was County. EXHIBIT A 19 DARROW: Unfortunately, it's not shown on this map, and we're not aware of that easement, what it's actually for. We could try to take a break and go find out what it's for. But, just, I wanted to bring to your attention that whenever we have these change of zones, they have impacts. They have local impacts and regional impacts, and so, part of the being able to minimize those impacts is the Applicant has to provide a fair -share payment to a number of activities or agencies that occur in that regional area. The highest impact that they look at actually is parks, and it gets the greatest amount of the fair share. So, for each house that is being built, there is a $14,696 fair share amount. Of that, $14,000, $787 [sic -$7,087] per dwelling goes towards parks. And, so, what a suggestion might be is knowing that this Change of Zone will have input as far as fair share, this condition says that that fair share has to be paid prior to Final Subdivision Approval. They could speak to their Councilperson and see if they could see if that money, those monies could be used to help provide that parking on that park property. It's just a thought there as well. REPLOGLE: Thank you. I just wanted to put that out there. I'm sure the developer is not intending for there to be an emergency and the trucks can't turn around. That would be a drag. CLARKSON: Okay, if—is there any further discussion? If not, the Chair would ask for a motion for action on this item. AU: Mr. Chair, I'm prepared to make a motion. I move that a favorable recommendation be forwarded to the County Council for application Change of Zone resolution [sic] 19-000235 based on the Planning Director's recommendation which shall be adopted. AGUINALDO: I second. CLARKSON: It's been moved and seconded. Any further discussion on this motion? AU: Yes, just a comment. You know, I support this motion, and I, we all should put our faith in government to do the right thing, you know, like Mr. Darrow said, there is a lot of agencies that is going to be touching this project as well as the County Council. So, if things don't get mitigated here, it will get mitigated through specific agencies, and especially for the final vote with the County Council. CLARKSON: Any further discussion? No? If not, please take a vote. ROY: Take a vote. Commissioner Replogle? REPLOGLE: Aye. ROY: Commissioner Clarkson? CLARKSON: Aye. ROY: They already voted? EXHIBIT A 20 CLARKSON: No. ROY: Oh, Mr.I'm sorry, Commissioner Aguinaldo? AGUINALDO: Aye. ROY: And, Commissioner Au. AU: Aye. CLARKSON: Motion carries. Thank you. You'll be notified in writing, sir, of the action of this Commission today. The discussion ended at 10:09 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Sarah Y. Hata-Finley, Secretary Windward Planning Commission EXHIBIT A 21