HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CHARTER 2019-06-07 (2018-2020)Hawaii County Charter Commission
12' Session
Council Chambers, Hawai`i County Building
25 Aupuni Street, Ste. 1401
Hilo, Hawai`i
June 7, 2019
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Hawai`i County Charter Commission was called to
ORDER: order at 9:33 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr. Douglass Shipman
Adams, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present:
Mr. Douglass Shipman Adams, Chair
Ms. Jennifer Zelko-Schlueter, Vice Chair
Mr. William Carthage Bergin, Commissioner
Ms. Michelle Galimba, Commissioner
Mr. Paul K. Hamano, Commissioner
Ms. Sarah H. Rice, Commissioner
Mr. Christopher John Imiloa Roehrig, Commissioner (left at 12:47 p.m.)
Ms. Marcia A. K. Saquing, Commissioner
Ms. Donna Mae Springer, Commissioner
Absent: Mr. Kevin D. Hopkins, Commissioner
Ms. Bobby Jean Leithead Todd, Commissioner
Also Present:
Mr. J Yoshimoto, Commission Attorney
Mr. Jon Henricks, Commission Analyst
Ms. Shannon Magnuson, Commission Secretary
Ms. Wendy Baez, Legislative Assistant to Council Vice Chair (Kona Courtesy
Site)
CHR. ADAMS: Welcome to the 12th session of the Hawai`i County Charter
Commission. Today is June 7th and it is 9:33 a.m. I would ask that everyone
please silence your communication devices for... during the time that you are in
this facility, and at this time I would call the meeting to order. Mr. Henricks if
you could please call the roll.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin (aye), Ms. Galimba (here), Mr. Hamano (here),
Mr. Hopkins, Ms. Leithead-Todd, Ms. Rice (here), Mr. Roehrig (here), Ms.
Saquing (here), Ms. Springer (here), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (here), Chair Adams
(present). Chair Adams you have nine members in attendance.
CHR. ADAMS: And Commissioner Hopkins and Todd are excused.
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
STATEMENTS
FROM THE
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS:
SUSAN DURSIN:
BRENDA FORD:
The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
CHR. ADAMS: At this time we will take statements from the public. If I could
ask our facility in Kona how many testifiers we have in Kona.
MS. BAEZ: Good morning Chair, there are three testifiers here.
CHR. ADAMS: And we have several testifiers here in Hilo, so let's start with
Kona. If I could ask our testifiers in Kona please to come to the table there and I
would remind everyone to please when you come to provide your name, the
agenda item that you are speaking to, there is the three minute limit, and then if
you are speaking about more than one agenda item it is a five minute limit total,
without objection. Alright, thanks. And I will let you decide there in Kona who
the first testifier is.
Proposal Nos. CA -9 and CA -19, commenting.
MS. DURSIN: My name is Susan Dursin. I am from Captain Cook and I would
like to thank you once again for your community service. Once again I want to
express strong support for the wording in CA -9 which would establish a single
position in the finance department paid for by the 2% Land Fund and dedicated
solely to its work. This would facilitate the purchase of land of course and it
would also allow additional attention to grant writing which could bring even
more money from outside sources than has already been attracted.
And then also, CA -19, I support the wording there, allowing non -profits to pay
board members and employees for their work... their maintenance work which is
of course very strenuous work and it has been shown that it is very difficult to
keep volunteers working year after year, so this is badly needed.
Both amendments with the proposed wording would make the 2% Land Fund
more effective. We have learned a great deal since 2006 and both of these
amendments capitalized on what has been learned, like going out to you that this
program is widely admired across the state and even on the mainland, and it
enhances the reputation of this County. In any case, I hope that you will help to
make the 2% Land Fund work even better. Thank you for considering my
comments.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Ms. Ford.
Proposal Nos. CA -9, CA -18, and CA -19 in support.
MS. FORD: Thank you. Hi, I am Brenda Ford, one of the co-authors of the
PONC (Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation
Commission) Fund and the PONC Maintenance Fund. I support CA -9 for one
Page 2
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
staff person. You must delineate a single staff person paid for out of the PONC
Maintenance Fund. Staff can be used in the plural and while we can always go
back to the record and prove that they can only use one, we would have to take on
the County in a lawsuit, when they try to hire more than one person and then use
them for other financial department work. So it must be changed to include just
one staff person. The original wording is correct and it needs to be dedicated to
the PONC Fund, the maintenance fund, the purchase of land, the acquisition of
matching funds, and assorted other things. So I support CA -9.
CA -19 I support. Allowing board members, employees, and officers, I think is
what it says to be paid for their work. Sometimes all you have is a board and
nobody else and they are the only ones that are going to be doing the work. And
it is... most of the time it is hard physical work and they deserve to be paid. I
would like to suggest that you make an amendment to CA -19 and add volunteers.
A lot of organizations that are non-profit have volunteers. They are not
employees, they are not board members, they are not officers, they are volunteers,
but they work just as hard in that hot sun, moving rocks, cutting grass, and brush.
We need to add the word volunteers and it needs to be defined as volunteers to the
non-profit, not that they are going to volunteer their hard physical labor. You
have got to get this right the first time. But we need to add the non-profit
volunteers can also be paid.
Then I would want to talk about CA -18. This is moving the entire PONC process
into the finance department and this amendment needs to go back on. I noticed
that the Chair has written a communication on this and I appreciate that. I hope
that the Chair will explain what this communication means. Does this mean that
CA -18 is going to come back before the Commission for another discussion and a
vote? I pray that that is what is going to happen.
Then CA -22, Chairman Adams I want to commend you for doing this
amendment, removing the last four digits of the social security numbers. You're
the only person that I am aware of that has been willing to deal with cyber theft
and ID (identification) theft, and security. Thank you for this amendment.
I would like to say that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance and the price of
living in Hawai`i is eternal vigilance because every time we turn around we have
to fight for our PONC fund again. This is coming up on the fourth time and
frankly we are all tired of it. We want you people to stop trying to strip our funds
out of the PONC and hand it over to our Mayor who has now one billion dollars
behind in funding our employee benefits and medical payments and he is not the
only one, it is everybody before him got us into this mess. I just read about it in
the paper. A billion dollars behind and we are not funding the budget
stabilization fund adequately. Should be two to five million, and the disaster and
emergency fund also needs two to five million dollars. Please work on the things
that will help us and not hurt us. Thank you for your time.
Page 3
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. In Hilo if I could ask Deborah
Ward and Nimr Tamimi to please come to the table. Again if you could please
provide your name, the agenda item that you are speaking to, if it is more than one
agenda item it is a five minute max on testimony, of course it is three minutes if it
is a single testimony, a single agenda item. And speak into the mic. That would
be great.
DEBORAH WARD: Proposal Nos. CA -9 and CA -18, commenting.
MS. WARD: Good Morning everyone. My name is Deborah Ward, W -A -R -D, I
have submitted my testimony so you know pretty much what I am going to say. I
just wanted to point out that we the public have been coming for at least 12
sessions, to these meetings and I want to encourage you to consider the public
testimony and consider the public hearings and know that the large body of
testifiers is strongly in support of CA -9, amended to include the single agent, and
CA -18 to cover the expenses and pay of the non -profits who are giving their time
and their lives, and their weekends to keeping these public land public, and clean
and tidy, and cutting the trees and hauling away the dead cars, and cleaning up the
trash. I can certainly attest to the enormous amount of rather unpleasant work that
it takes in order to keep these beautiful pieces of land clean, and it doesn't just
cost in physical energy. It costs in their trucks, in their time, it costs in the food
that they provide their volunteers, I mean it is a massive contribution, none of
which is paid for by the grants at this point, and I just strongly ask you to consider
that all the public testimony that has been given so far is very much in support of
these two amendments as changed and I ask you please to consider that. Mahalo.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could ask Curtis Beck please to come to the mic.
Thanks. Mr. Tamimi.
NIMR TAMIMI: Proposal No. CA -26 in opposition.
MR. TAMIMI: Thank you. Good morning Commissioners.
CHR. ADAMS: If you could... yeah. Turn on the mic.
MR. TAMIMI: Testing one...
CHR. ADAMS: Go ahead and press the button.
MR. TAMIMI: This one? The top button?
CHR. ADAMS: Yup. There you go.
MR. TAMIMI: Hello. Sorry about that. Aloha Commissioners. My name is
Nimr Tamimi. I am a life-long resident of Hilo, I have been practicing
engineering in Hilo for over 30 years. I would like to thank you for your efforts
Page 4
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
on the Charter Commission and for allowing me the time to testify this morning.
I am not in support of the current wording for Charter Amendment No. 26, in
reference to the removal of licensure requirements for the position of Public
Work's Director. I believe that it is important that this position is held by a
licensed engineer to help protect the welfare of our community and our County.
Licensed engineers much like doctors are required to adhere to high standards of
ethics. The decisions that are made by the Director of Public Works have direct
impact on the welfare of our community and of our County. For this reason, it is
important that these decisions are made based on sound engineering judgment and
ethics and are not motivated by politics or money. I ask that you please consider
voting against Charter Amendment No. 26 in reference to the removal of the
licensure requirement for the position of Director of Public Works. If you
absolutely feel that you need to do something regarding this issue, I ask that you
please postpone your vote on Charter Amendment No. 26, and that you include
the engineering community in discussions that can help reword the amendment in
a manner that helps preserve the public's trust and welfare.
The engineering community has not been included in any conversations regarding
this amendment. By engaging the engineering community, you will find willing
participants and may also gain some valuable insight into our profession and how
engineers enhance the safety and health of our community which we live in. As
you, we are here to serve our community. Thank you very much for the time
allowing me to testify in front of you. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could ask Mr. Ono please to come to the
microphone. Mr. Beck.
CURTIS BECK: Proposal No. CA -26 in opposition.
MR. BECK: Thank you Commissioner. My name is Curtis Beck. I am testifying
on CA -26. I have been a licensed engineer in Hawai`i since 1983 and like Mr.
Tamimi, I am opposed to amendment No.CA-26. What I would like to say in
addition to what Mr. Tamimi had to say is that this matter is not just a matter of
concern to local engineers, but rather it is a matter of nationwide concern. Why
do I say that? Like some of my other colleagues, I have been affiliated not only
with the Hawai`i Society of Professional Engineers but also deeply involved in
the activities of the National Society of Professional Engineers or NSPE, so for
the past 20 years now, I have represented Hawai`i Society of Professional
Engineers in various capacities and have served on several boards, commissions,
and task forces, including the Board of Ethical Review, on which I served for six
years. In 2005 I served on a special task force appointed by the NSPE Board of
Directors entitled "The Taskforce on Overruling Engineering Judgement", which
dealt with concerns related to those that have been raised by our local PE's
(Professional Engineers) on proposed Charter Amendment No. CA -26. In its
final report in 2006, the Taskforce on Overruling Engineering Judgement, said
this: "Today, engineers sometimes report to politicians, public administrators, and
Page 5
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MBA's (Masters of Business Administration) at the head of their organizations.
Sometimes this structure works well, relieving the engineers of the non-technical
problem areas, but deferring to the engineers judgement on technical issues.
However, a risk that is frequently ignored, is that unless the trust relationship
develops between the engineer and the non -engineer supervisor or regulator, the
technical program or project can be misdirected into unstable and even dangerous
ground that may become unduly influenced by political factors, public relations
issues, financial considerations, and unreasonable completion schedules. More
recently, the National Society adopted its position statement No. 0702 on the
recognition of the engineering function in government. Within the text of NSPE
0702 is this very strong statement: NSPE recommends that government officials
having the authority for hiring or appointment, recognize the importance of the
engineering function within their government departments and agencies, through
the selection of fully qualified licensed professional engineers, to positions having
responsibility for making engineering decisions and exercising engineering
judgement. I wish to remind the members of the Commission that the nationwide
system of engineering licensure laws has been laboriously set up state by state,
starting with Wyoming in 1907 and completing with Montanta in 1947, and then
of course extending to Alaska and Hawai`i when they became states, in response
to a growing number of engineering disasters that occurred in the late nineteenth
and early twentieth centuries, many of which were the direct result of unqualified
individuals making critical engineering decisions. I feel the enactment of CA -26
would work to degrade this process in protecting safety, health, and welfare of the
public. Please do not approve CA -26. Mahalo.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could ask Mr. Boucher please to come to the
microphone. Mr. Ono.
HUGH ONO: Proposal No. CA -26 in opposition.
MR. ONO: Thank you very much. Okay, is that loud enough?
CHR. ADAMS: Yes.
MR. ONO: Okay, thank you very much. My name is Hugh Ono and I am
testifying on behalf of CA -26. I am a PE and I have been the Public Works
Director for six years from 1987 to 1993. I need to point out something from my
experience and my career as an engineer to make my point why the PE
requirement as part of this job is so important, and for the same reasons that
Curtis has stated is safety and health reasons. I was also the Division
Administrator for the State Highways' Division for three years, for the three years
I worked on O`ahu. I have also been the national chair for the engineering exam
for three years and I need to point out some examples. I won't highlight them all,
but just the ones that involved a lot of engineering decisions as part of my tenure
as the Public Works Director.
Page 6
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
First of all, that sewer treatment plant at Keaukaha, just as you have entered it, we
relocated that plant to inside of the airport. We worked with the EPA
(Environmental Protection Agency), with the State Department of Health,
numerous consulting engineers, firms that were brought in to do the design, and
that included a lot of engineering decision making. Also you may not be aware of
this, but the Saddle Road reconstruction and realignment, was initiated during our
term. It was Mayor Carpenter's dream to have the highway connect East and
West Hawai`i. Again, we worked with the Federal Highway System, we worked
with Senator Daniel K. Inouye's office, and with the numerous consultants that
did the design. And of course it occurred over years and years and years, so what
we have is the completed highway.
Then we had the siting of the new landfill, the one that you see in West Hawai`i
along the Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway. That again, was initiated during our
administration, working with the EPA, the Department of Health, the Hotel
Association, and involved a lot of engineering decision making.
Lastly I would like to point out among the seven projects, the building permit
changes. We did changes to the building permit to make it easier for residents to
get permits and to execute them more expeditiously. In doing so we worked with
the Structural Engineer's Association of Hawai`i, we worked with the... the...
building departments across the state, and also the Architects' Institute of
Hawai`i.
Three things that I would like to point out, or actually two out of the three that I
feel that there must have been valid reasons why this requirement was put into the
Charter so long ago, and something that is very, very pertinent as to why this
position was so difficult to fill. There was thing they call a salary inversion okay,
and basically what happens is that the subordinates in this department that report
to this position, were making more than the director himself, okay. This was
going on from anywhere from six to eight years or so, and that is a sure thing... a
deterrent to finding an engineer to take a position when you are going to get paid
significantly less than the people that report to you. This was corrected in
January, 2018 by your salary commission.
And lastly, I would like to close by... based on my experiences in working in
engineering, there is only one other profession that I am aware of that could
execute this job successfully. I thank you for your time and I hope you will
consider removing this Charter Amendment. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Mr. Ono. If I could ask Ms. Harden please to come
to the microphone. Mr. Boucher, you may.
PETER BOUCHER: Proposal No. CA -26 in opposition.
MR. BOUCHER: Good Morning Chair.
Page 7
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Morning.
MR. BOUCHER: And commission members. My name is Peter Boucher.
CHR. ADAMS: Is the microphone on? There we go.
MR. BOUCHER: I think so now.
CHR. ADAMS: There we go.
MR. BOUCHER: Again, my name is Peter Boucher. I am a professional
engineer. I am in opposition to Charter Amendment No. 26 along with the other
engineers here. As way of background, I have been a resident here on the Big
Island since 1988, so about 30 years, and I have been a professional engineer, a
licensed engineer a few years longer than that. I was at one point at various
leadership positions within various engineering societies like Curt, but I have
been the State President of the Hawai`i Society of Professional Engineers also.
Immediately my... I worked for the County as the Wastewater Division Chief
which is a Civil Engineer Seven position, for about 14 years and over those years
I had the opportunity to work initially... wastewater division was subsidiary fell
under the Department of Public Works and there the requirement for the Chief
Engineer did require a PE and I worked under three or four Professional
Engineers there successfully. During that period though, the Department of
Environmental Management was created and the wastewater division, and the
solid waste divisions were spun off from Public Works and formed into the new
department. At that time although it was proposed that that Director of that
department should also hold the PE license and I still feel it should, but as a result
of that requirement not being in place, I had the opportunity to work under two
licensed engineers. Galen Kuba took over temporarily to kind of a similar
situation that Mr. Ono was discussing, where he was the Engineering Division
Chief and when he moved up to Acting Director, his salary was less than what he
was making previously, so he did return and we also had another engineer for a
short while but most of the time the position was held by non engineers and the
areas in which I typically would interact with a department head would be in the
areas of capital improvements, what exactly... where we should be expanding our
system, where should new sewers go, what kind of treatment facilities might be
necessary and where and when, and those kinds of questions is very difficult to
discuss with the non -engineers.
And similarly, the other half is maintaining existing facilities and upgrading the
equipment in existing facilities, so it involves reviewing and assessing and
deciding on what new technologies to be using as we are upgrading our facilities.
CHR. ADAMS: Could I ask you to summarize please.
Page 8
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. BOUCHER: Ooh, sorry. Uh, well I guess my main point was going to be...
I guess I will skip some of the other stuff then, but my main point was most
professions nowadays do require... when we think of professions we think of
doctors, lawyers, accountants, and I like to think of engineers as the last one there.
All the above typically require the licensure appropriate... licensure for those
individuals. In fact I note in your agenda, you are proposing that the Corporation
Counsel have licensure in order to head that department, so I think that is very... I
was trying to search for what the right word... Ironic, incongruent, was something
I heard, hypocritical somebody else mentioned, that we should be bringing that up
at the same time. But I think it is very good to compare why should the attorneys
require somebody licensed in that field whereas the engineering would not. At
that I will waive the rest of my testimony. I am sure you are going to hear similar
comments from the others in the room. If you have any questions, I am happy to
answer.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. I appreciate it. If I could ask
Karen Clarkson to please to come to the microphone. Great. Ms. Harden.
CORY HARDEN: Proposal Nos. CA -9, CA -17, CA -18, and CA -22 in support and CA -8 in
opposition.
MS. HARDEN: Good morning Commissioners and thank you for your service
again. Cory Harden speaking for myself on several amendments. I am opposing
the CA -8 for the four-year council terms. You have heard Russell Ruderman and
Brenda Ford who have both been in the trenches for a long time and who really
have the people's interest at heart, and they are supporting two-year terms and to
me that helps avoid concentrating power, and we don't want to concentrate
power. That is not democracy.
I support amending CA -9, that's communication 24.104, that is to have just one
person to administer the 2% fund. The way CA -9 is now written without the
amendment, you could end up getting multiple staff people and maybe using too
much 2% money, so we need to specify just one staff person and we really need
that one staff person. Ten years' experience with the 2% shows us it doesn't work
to just borrow staff if they have time after doing other work to work on the 2%.
You have to find matching funds, you have to get appraisals, do surveys, and kind
of track everything, and if there is a seller who needs some cash quickly or if they
are having trouble paying their taxes, they might not be able to wait. And a staff
person can also help non -profits get funding from the maintenance fund, and that
fund, maybe it would start working as intended, but as of now in six years only
six grants have been awarded, and not even one tenth of the available funds have
gone out to stewardship groups. And the 2% funds are already being set aside. I
feel like we should have a real strong 2% fund that works well so we can start
reaping the benefits of that fund.
Page 9
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
I support CA -17 for a disaster fund. We know we are going to have more
disasters and if we have a disaster fund then we don't also have to scramble to try
and find money at the worst possible time, while we are still coping with the
disaster.
I support CA -18, draft 2, to transfer the 2% Maintenance Fund to the Finance
Department and add more uses. You have heard from the people taking care of
the land and you know going around picking up stuff nobody wants to pick up
and a lot of work, a lot of time and money. So we want, like I said, a strong 2%
fund, really get results, good care for the land, and the volunteer energy can only
go so far.
And last, I support amending CA -22, communication 39.02, stop requiring last
four digits of the social security number for petition signers. The AARP
(American Association of Retired Persons) says that the last four digits are the
most important to protect. These are the only ones that are random and unique.
The first five numbers tell when and where your social security card was issued
and scammers can get those five numbers by knowing your birthdate and
hometown, so if they... if you give them the last four, sometimes they can figure
out your social security number. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks very much. At this time I am going to ask the testifier
that we have in Kona to please testify. I would also ask Neal Herbert please to
come to the microphone here in Hilo. Kona.
RILEY SMITH: Proposal No. CA -26 in opposition.
MR. SMITH: Good morning Chair Adams and members of the Charter
Commission, thank you very much for allowing me to testify. You should all
have a copy of my testimony. It was emailed in on Tuesday. My name is Riley
Smith, I am a licensed professional engineer in the state of Hawai`i. I live in
South Kohala and I work in Kailua-Kona. I am testifying in opposition to CA -26.
I have been and currently still am a licensed professional engineer, civil
designation. And have been licensed in the state of Hawai`i since 1980. I was
also the Deputy Director of the Department of Public Works from 93 to 95.
When I accepted the responsibility of that position, I regularly made decisions
that impacted the welfare of all residents of Hawai`i Island. This included
adoption of more stringent building codes, revisions to the drainage ordinance, as
well as establishing sound rationale to set speed limits, operation of traffic signals,
and general highway safety.
Currently the Department of Public Works is responsible for six divisions.
Administration, automotive, building, engineering, highway maintenance, and
traffic. These divisions are responsible for the health and welfare of our citizens.
If you live or work in a building, if you are concerned that the building you're in
Page 10
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
won't flood during a storm, or if you drive a vehicle on a County high... roadway,
you clearly want to be sure that the person in charge of this infrastructure is
qualified for the job. The director of the department must currently possess a
Professional Engineer's license. This license certifies that he or she has been
properly trained so that your safety and that of your family is not compromised.
This person was responsible to supervise other positions that also must be
licensed. This includes the Building Division Chief as well as the Engineering
Division Chief and should also possess a similar license as the person being
supervised. Otherwise they may not clearly understand the health and safety
issues there at stake when making important decisions that impact all of us. As a
licensed professional engineer, the director is personally liable for decisions
made, and liability assumed when making decisions as a director. A person with
only a bachelor's degree will not have the same level of liability concern, nor
personal responsibility as someone who is licensed. The consequences of being
licensed and making an error in judgement are much more severe for the licensed
professional. This is similar to other fields such as doctors, attorneys, certified
public accountants, veterinarians, and other that are licensed by the state of
Hawai`i.
For the above reasons, I ask that you not approve this item to be included on the
upcoming election ballot. Thank you very much.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. Back here in Hilo, Ms. Clarkson.
Ma'am if you could please put the microphone on. Thanks. Great. Thank you.
Thanks Mr. Ono.
KAREN
CLARKSON: Proposal Nos. CA -9 and CA -18, Draft 2, commenting.
MS. CLARKSON: I am testifying on CA -9, that we pay for the salary, wages,
and benefits of one full-time staff member employed by the Department of
Finance dedicated only to administrating the activities contained with this Section
and Section 10-16 of the Charter. This is in addition to a staff person provided by
the Hawai`i County Code, to assist the Public Access, Open Space and Natural
Resources Commission.
I am also testifying on CA -18, Draft 2, which would allow an officer, board
member, or employee of a 50c non-profit organization to operate under the
umbrella of the 50C 3 non-profit organization may receive compensation for
duties that are delineated in the approved stewardship grant proposal. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask that Mr. Sensenig
please come to the microphone. Mr. Herbert.
Page 11
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
NEAL HERBERT: Proposal No. CA -29, commenting.
MR. HERBERT: Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I am a licensed
engineer in Hawai`i. I have been a licensed engineer in Florida, the District of
Columbia, and also in the Coast Guard I served in active duty. I notice that much
of the recommendation for this change came from Commissioner Adams with
support from Commissioner Leithead-Todd initially. I believe Commissioner
Adams cited his wife's experience and that there was really no need for her to
have a license to do her functions, so I can actually tell you that as a civil engineer
in the Coast Guard, I could fill administrative positions but no administrative type
person or operations can fill those civilian engineers position. It seems to me that
after no recommendation for the change from Public Works or any public
submission, this amendment was solely initiated by yourself and by
Commissioner Leithead-Todd. Despite in regard to the strong comments made by
many engineers who regularly deal with the most important public work and
manage this, this is the most severe discipline required in public works, is
engineering. Not administration or some other function or background. Well, I
won't say this. I had some nasty comment to make, but I won't.
The use of the term related to area seems to be very highly subjective. It reads
now should be related to the powers, duties, functions of the department. Are
these any functions, some functions, all of the functions? In what way? Could it
just be somebody who just had administrative management experience? Like the
administration division of Public Works that provides key technical support
services and community outreach in other divisions? Nothing about anything else
in proper function in the division. But hasn't Public Works been managed
efficiently and effectively by professional engineers? Why change what is going
well? Yeah, we can get by with a non -engineer but is that the best thing for us,
for the taxpayers, and for the public, and for our safety as we mentioned already?
O`ahu requires a professional engineer. They are much larger system than we
have here. There is a reason for that. And as also mentioned before, if we are
going to license the Corporate Counsel why shouldn't we license an engineer?
We need somebody who speaks and understands the language to make those
important decisions at that top and the question is who can best serve the public,
who will ensure the best person is selected, are we going to leave it up to the
County staff to make general determinations on this matter? So I would be
against the current wording in there. I think for example the certifications should
be a little bit stronger, it should be a bachelor or higher degree, not just a bachelor
degree because somebody may have a bachelor's degree in one field and then go
on into an engineer or other (inaudible) that has a master's degree, preferably
licensed but I am not that high on license, but I think that at a minimum there
should be a reference to an engineering background in your amendment. Or at
least table the amendment until you can get together with the engineering
community as previously recommended. The people who have been dealing with
Public Works and the community and providing services and know what the
responsibilities and these consequences are in determining what is best for the
Page 12
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
operation of the County. So I would recommend we table the amendment as
opposed to canceling it, until we come up with some more specific, rational,
responsible wording. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask Mr. Warshauer
please to come to the microphone. Mr. Sensenig.
DOUG SENSENIG: Proposal Nos. CA -9 and CA -18 in support.
MR. SENSENIG: Thank you. I am Doug Sensenig and I am here to encourage
your support for CA -9 and CA -18 as revised. Thank you all for the time and hard
work that you have put in to the process of strengthening the County Charter, to
make it more responsive to the needs and wishes of the people of Hawai`i County.
The extensive public discussion and input has been valuable. In the case of CAs 9
and 18, the discussion has resulted in further refinement of CA -9, the provision
for a single dedicated County staff member to administer the PONC program and
of CA -18, providing for payment of non-profit staff who steward the property
acquired. I have worked as an attorney, land trust executive director, and
volunteer, to protect land for future generations. I believe in the power of
dedicated volunteers to steward protected lands, but volunteers can only do so
much and it is unfair to ask them to shoulder a responsibility that we all share.
Looking back to the beginning of the Charter amendment process, it is important
to remember that the people of Hawai`i County made a strong commitment
evidenced by decisive majorities in three elections, to invest in land for the health
and wellbeing for future generations. It is a sacred commitment, part of our
kuleana, and one that those future generations will thank us for, just as we thank
those who bequeathed us such places as Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Yellowstone,
and the lands held in trust for the public good here in Hawai`i. Can any of us
think of land that was protected in prior generations that we aren't grateful for,
that we don't describe as priceless? The investment being made by the people of
Hawai`i County in important cultural habitat, outdoor recreation, excuse me...
outdoor recreation and watershed properties can only reach its full potential if
those lands are maintained consistently and maintained well. All our lands are
threatened by more than poorly planned development. They are threatened by
invasive animals, plants, and overuse. If we don't provide proper management,
the legacy received by our children's children will be in sorry shape. It only
makes sense for us to set aside funds to pay people to manage these lands. It is
just common sense that non -profits can't be expected to carry the burden of
management over decades, and we hope centuries, without being able to pay
quality staff.
Under CA -18, with the proposed modifications, we will be able to fund the proper
management of conservation land as it should be cared for. After all we are not
spending here. We are investing in assets that will only grow in value over time
and that perhaps will provide resources to our descendants that we can only
Page 13
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
speculate about. Please support the modifications to CA -9 and the proposed
changes to CA -18. They mean real improvement in the operation of the land fund
and have been refined through the deliberative process you have conducted over
these many months. Big Mahalos to Debbie Hecht, Brenda Ford, and the people
of Hawai`i Island for their persistence and vision. We can all be proud of what
has been done here and future generations will not forget your part in securing
their legacy. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask Austen Drake
please to come to the microphone. Mr. Warshauer.
RICK
WARSHAUER: Proposal Nos. CA -9 and CA -18 in support.
MR. WARSHAUER: Good morning Commissioners. Thank you for your
continued actions on this Commission and Chair Adams for its sufficient running.
My comments relate mostly to CA -9 and CA -18. The authorizing and organizing
laws that define the PONC process have been evolving over its whole lifetime.
Similarly, so has the administration of the law for better or for worse over time as
successive administrations put their own interpretation and biases into its
operation. That is why it is so important to place so much detail of purpose and
operation into the Charter. I urge you to do so in CA -9 and CA -18. The
clarifications in wording of these amendments that so many testifiers request will
do so. As a PONC Commissioner, I feel that these changes would make our
commission operations and effectiveness much better and that the outcomes of the
PONC process will be much more functional and timely. Additionally I urge you
not to move CA -8 forward. I much appreciate the shorter terms and quicker
turnover. And then for CA -17, I support it. Thank you very much.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks for your testimony. If I could ask Mr. Michael Lum to
please come to the microphone. Mr. Drake.
AUSTEN DRAKE: Proposal No. CA -26 in opposition.
MR. DRAKE: Good morning. My name is Austen Drake, I am a registered
professional engineer and have been for the past 11 years. I will be reading a
joint testimony opposing Charter Amendment No. 26. This written testimony was
submitted yesterday so I will paraphrase because there are a lot of things that you
guys already heard this morning. This joint testimony was co-signed by 58
professional engineers, architects, and community members. As members of the
engineering profession we recommend against the removal of the requirement in
Section 6-2.2 that the Director of Public Works be a registered professional
engineer. The Public Works Department is at its core, an engineering
organization. The current Charter reflects this reality and insures that the
organization is led by a qualified engineer. No amount of on the job training or
years of experience in administration can substitute for the typical Public Works
Page 14
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Director's engineering skills, 15-20 years of hands-on engineering experience,
and licensure status.
The appointment of a licensed engineer to the director position conforms to the
professional licensure rules of the state of Hawai`i and meets the requirement to
preserve the responsibility of this position to protect safety, health, and well-being
of the citizens of this County. The first fundamental cannon of the code of ethics
of the National Society of Professional Engineers states: Engineers in the
fulfillment of their fundamental duties shall hold paramount the safety, health,
and welfare of the public. The PE requirement in the Hawai`i County Charter
assures that the engineering decisions made by the director will competently
preserve the safety, health, and welfare, ethical obligation to which we are also
obligated by state and federal standards.
Also consider that there are other County of Hawai`i executive positions that
require such licensure for appropriate experience, such as Corporation Counsel,
Prosecuting Attorney, Police Chief, Fire Chief, Manager -in -Chief Engineer,
Department of Water Supply, as well as Legislative Auditor. The PE requirement
may not be applicable if the director did not make engineering decisions but we
can assure you that indeed they do. We sincerely ask that you do not approve the
placement of the proposed Charter amendment defined in qualification for
Director of Department of Public Works, CA -26 on the election ballot. Thank
you very much for allowing us the opportunity to testify on this matter.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask Margaret Wille
please to come to the microphone. Mr. Lum.
MICHAEL LUM: Proposal No. CA -26 in opposition.
MR. LUM: Good morning Commissioner, or Chairman and members of the
Hawai`i County Charter Commission, for allowing us the time to speak on this
matter. My name is Michael Lum. I am the President of the Hawai`i Society of
Professional Engineers. As an engineer I dedicate my professional knowledge
and skill to the advancement and betterment of human welfare. As an engineer I
pledge to give the utmost of performance, to participate in none but honest
enterprise. To live and work according to the laws of man and the highest
standards of professional conduct. To place service before profit, the honor and
standing of the profession before professional or personal advantage, and the
public welfare above all other considerations. In humility and with need for
divine guidance, I make this pledge. I will make this pledge again in two weeks
when we induct the new members of the Hawai`i Society of Professional
Engineers and the new officers. As president of the Hawai`i Society of
Professional Engineers, also known as HSPE, the HSPE is one of the many state
societies that comprise the National Society of Professional Engineers, or NSPE.
HSPE members have for many years participated in the annual meetings of NSPE
served on key commissions, including the NSPE Board of Ethical Review,
Page 15
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Professional Engineers in Government, and the Taskforce on the Overruling of
Engineering Judgement, and next year one of our members of the Hawai`i Society
of Engineers will become the president for the certification... for the National
Institute for Certification in Engineering Technologies.
We would ask that you reconsider your position on CA -26 and I ask what makes
the difference between a professional engineer and an ordinary engineer, or a non -
engineer. Only a licensed engineer write, prepare, sign, seal, and submit
engineering plans and drawings to the public authority for approval or seal
engineering work for public and private clients. Professional engineers shoulder
the responsibility not only of their work, but for lives affected by that work, they
must hold themselves to the highest ethical standards. And most importantly,
what a professional engineer brings is a fiduciary responsibility.
I looked for a definition for that term and I found one most appropriately in the
American Society of Civil Engineering Monthly Publishing, January 1, 2014:
The term fiduciary responsibility... I am sorry. Licensure for civil... consulting
engineer or a private practitioner is not something that is merely a certificate or an
achievement. It carries a legal fiduciary responsibility. The term fiduciary duty is
a legal concept describing situations in which a special relationship of trust is
deemed to exist between two parties. A person who has offered his or her
expertise and prudence and the individual or entity relying on that expertise. A
fiduciary relationship represents the highest duty of care recognized in American
legal system and requires that the individual serves as the fiduciary act primarily
for the benefit of his or her beneficiary in matters related to that role even when
such actions run counter or contrary to the fiduciary's personal interests.
As Curt so appropriately pointed out, that the NSPE considers the practice of
engineering by licensed professional engineers of such importance that it has an
official position statement on this matter and Curt referenced it in the NSPE
Statement No. 07-02, Recognition of the Engineering Function within
Government. Every state regulates the practice of engineering to insure public
safety by granting only professional engineers the authority to sign and seal
engineering plans and offer their service to the public. Weakening the
qualifications of the head of a local Public Work's agency goes contrary, I am
sorry, is contrary to the very system of engineering licensure that has been
laboriously set up over the past century to protect public health and safety. The
adverse risk of an unlicensed engineer or a non -engineer misunderstanding or
perhaps overruling the engineering judgment of local DPW (Department of Public
Works) engineer staff has been well documented by the National Society of
Professional Engineers and presents an unacceptable risk to the Hawai`i County.
That is why we, the Hawai`i Society of Professional Engineers, oppose the
proposed amendment CA -No. 26 and humbly ask that you reconsider your
position.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony.
Page 16
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MARGARET
WILLE:
MR. LUM: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: If I could ask Ms. Hecht to please to come to the microphone.
Okay. Ms. Wille.
Proposal Nos. CA -9, CA -18, CA -28, CA -29, and CA -30 in support.
MS. WILLE: Yeah, Margaret Wille, and if it is okay I would like to make a quick
additional comment to that CA -26 in opposition. And I just want to say with
regard to that, by having licensed persons who are independently accountable,
you reduce the likelihood of unduly political appointments. This is really a key
position in the Administration. And on a practical level what happens is if they
are not qualified, for that person to make a decision they have to be educated as to
all of the technicalities in each of the six departments, which really is a waste of
time and underutilizes everyone's time. And with all of the extreme weather and
increasing disaster potential, we really need the most highly qualified person to be
there.
With respect to CA -9, I support the proposed amendment. I think the PONC
program is really underutilized and underappreciated. And we really need
critically dedicated personnel to maintain and advance the value of this program.
This is a program yes, for the present, also for the future, and has in many ways
becomes the low hanging fruit in terms of staff time. I have seen this in other
areas such as with the Community Development Plan, and again, in order to
maximize matching funds and really make this something that we can utilize not
just for residents but also for visitors, and make it something really that is key to
our island, I support that amendment.
I also support the proposed amendment to CA -18 in order to use the funds for
allowing members of the non -profits to be paid. Again, all of this is just making it
the reality of how to make it work better and function the way that it should.
And then lastly I just want to say I am glad to see that you are supporting CA -28
and removing the sort of partisan distinctions and requirements for the Mayor to
try to equalize the number... representation among Republicans, Democrats,
when we have a non-partisan Mayor, non-partisan Council members, and really
there are just so many things they are trying to balance in looking at qualified
people, gender, geographic representation, it is really... I have just watched it be
something that compromises, and again, on CA -29, Draft 2, supporting that. It is
really you know, tying the whole thing of capital improvements together with the
General Plan and Community Development Plans. Ties into the changes that
have been made in the General Plan and the ordinances that are in place with the
Community Development Plans, and makes it that these plans and these sort of
analytical frameworks and... that is both on a conceptual level and also down on
Page 17
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
the people who are there and spend the time and investment... you know I have
watched many of the, or a number of the development plans really taking a great
deal of time looking at what is needed in their area, and just not have it be written
off of well I don't have to pay attention to that, I ... anyway, I just appreciate your
doing that.
And lastly, on... that you... Chair Adams, and... submitted for CA -30, with
regard to the Board of Ethics, and trying to strengthen that and giving that a little
more power so it isn't again just sort of a commission that is really advisory to say
the least. Thank you very much.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask Ms. Sammie
Stanbro please to come to the microphone. Ms. Hecht.
DEBBIE HECHT: Proposal Nos. CA -9 and CA -18 in support.
MS. HECHT: Aloha Commissioners... aloha Commission members, my name is
Debbie Hecht. I have been the campaign coordinator for the 2% Land Fund since
2005. I co-authored both existing amendments with Council member Brenda Ford
and I served on the PONC commission. Thank you for taking time from your
families and your work, to represent the people of Hawai`i County. Do you
realize that almost all the testimony at the Charter Commission regularly
scheduled meeting and the public meetings was about strengthening the 2% Land
Fund? As you make your decisions about proposed modifications to strengthen
the land fund program, please remember that sixty-three percent of voters voted in
favor of the program three times and all of the people you have heard from,
except for three, want to strengthen the 2% Land Fund Program.
Since 2006, the 2% Land Fund has purchased 4,400 acres, 2,200 acres are being
added when Waikapuna in Kali is purchased. The stewardship groups who care
for these lands have received only nine percent of all the money deposited in the
maintenance fund and only 14 properties have been acquired over the past 13
years. We can do better. One paid staff person who works only on the Land
Fund Program would help to be able to do more real estate deals, find more
matching funds, and help the stewardship groups with their proposals and good
works. We thank Commissioner Hopkins for his modifications to the... as the
clarifying proposal. What we would like to see would be pay for the salary,
wages, and benefits of one full-time staff member employed by the Department of
Finance, dedicated only to the activities contained within this Section and Section
10-16 of the Charter. This is in addition to a staff person provided for in the
Hawai`i County Code to assist the Public Access, Open Space and Natural
Resources Commission. We are worried about the existing language because
staff can mean one, 10, 12, people, there is no way to monitor that, and we think
that this is a necessary staff position, and one person that is well skilled in land
conservation could do the job. And that is in addition to umm...
Page 18
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
And the other reason is because a property management person, I have the... and
I sent it to you, can earn up to $88,000 dollars a year, so with wages and benefits,
that would be about $100,000 a year, and we really want to honor what people
voted for, and not deplete the purchasing power of the fund, or the potential for
matching funds. So real estate deals are time sensitive... require sellers, we need
someone to work only on these land acquisitions. Willing sellers want to be paid
as soon as possible because the taxes keep mounting up on the property and they
could have a use for the money. A lot of times in land conservation purchases,
the properties fall out because the sellers get frustrated. So you need somebody to
watchdog the process from endangered species reports to the very detailed
appraisals and on and on and on.
So on CA -18, mahalo to Commissioner Rice who has accomplished so much for
the maintenance fund. Council member Brenda Ford and I wrote this amendment
in 2012 because over and over we heard why should we save more land, the
County doesn't take care of what we have now. That is all true and we heard
from County people. We can't take care of all of this. So we tried to empower
and enable the volunteer groups who were already caring for these lands. They
form non-profit 501(c)(3)'s, they elected boards. In rural areas with small
populations, many of the board members were also workers on the land. The way
the present language reads is board members have... can't work on the land, they
can't be paid, so what happens is that there have been people that have actually
resigned from boards in order to go do the contract work that they are doing
anyway. And especially in rural areas, there is not that many people to work, so
that is why that is important and every single one of the groups that I spoke with
that have received stewardship money, said they needed to be able to pay people
to work on the land.
So at the last meeting we went round and around calling for points of order, or
pointing at Robert's Rules of Order and there is a case to be made for a motion to
rescind. You can suspend the rules if you want, you can do the right thing and
improve the proposal for CA -18. We could all in a professional parliamentarian
from O`ahu, but how does all of this maneuvering support and strengthen the 2%
Land Fund Program which was requested in testimony to you over and over by
citizens? You can approve or vote down any amendment you choose. I hope you
will thoroughly consider all the testimony and please, please, help strengthen the
Land Fund. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask Leslie Cole -
Brooks please to come to the microphone. Ms. Stanbro.
SHANNON SAMMIE
STANBRO: Proposal Nos. CA -9 and CA -18 in support.
MS. STANBRO: Thank you. You've all heard more than you probably ever
thought you would ever want to know about 2%, before you joined this
Page 19
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
committee, and I am really glad that you did, and you might have voted, you may
not have voted, but you know a lot now. I am not going to reiterate what Debbie
just said. What she said was in a nutshell. We have said it over and over again.
It needs to be supported, it needs to move ahead. I remember the very first days
when Harry put the first person into place. I went wow, how is this going to
work? This person doesn't know anything about what he is doing, he has no
passion for what he is doing, and it never moved forward from there. Very slow.
So please listen to all you have heard, listen to the voters that have voted over the
years, and make your decisions, but thank you again. I didn't... for supporting
the 2% and for only one person not staff, the word staff it needs to be a singular
person. However you are going to change that to clarify that, and then also you
know we... I am an educator and we always are learning and I, just listening to
the engineers here, I am a school teacher with a Master's, I can't imagine the
principal of any school that I would work at, not to have a licensed... to be a
licensed teacher before they became an administrator of a school. You don't
speak the same language, you don' t have the same background, training, and so it
is just a simple thing that whoever is the head of a department should have a
license in what they are the head of Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask Mr. Warren Lee to
please come to the microphone. Ms. Cole -Brooks.
LESLIE
COLE -BROOKS: Proposal Nos. CA -9 and CA -18 in support.
MS. COLE -BROOKS: Thank you. Good morning. Leslie Cole -Brooks, I am
here representing myself. First a big thank you. We have been at this for a while
and I know you have attended many meetings, many community meetings, and
this is a volunteer effort and there is a lot of issues before you as well, so I really
appreciate all the work that you have done.
First to CA -9, I am in strong support of the proposed amended version. I won't
repeat what has been said. I agree with everything that you have heard already so
far. Especially important that that person be dedicated just to that work. It would
be very easy for someone that is already from time to time doing that work, for
that to be construed as having met that requirement, so I think it really needs to be
spelt out. So strong support for that.
I really want to speak to CA -18. I must admit I am a little confused by the
minutes that I last read. It looks like there is a procedural issue. You actually
encouraged me to look at my Robert's Rules books and there is a way to get
around this so that we can reinsert that amendment that has been proposed by
Commissioner Rice. I won't go into that now, but I really hope that we can
overcome that, or if you are going to discuss it today later, I am not sure, so
anyway, there is a way around it, and I really hope we can get this set today so
Page 20
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
that when it goes to the Council, that it is really how we want it to be. Alright, so
I am going to assume that we can succeed there. I am going to proceed.
First of all, why should we let a 501(c)(3) use money to pay staff? Why would
we do that? What is the maintenance fund important? And I think of it like
peanut butter and jelly. That if you purchase property, but you don't have an
efficient mechanism to maintain it, you probably shouldn't purchase the property
in the first place because if the fences come down and it gets filled with invasives,
if there's fire hazards, and so forth, you want to make sure that that maintenance
fund works well. And that is what we are all trying to do right? So, it is obviously
just so important that the two work together.
As to volunteers, you know I actually was... to see that some people
characterizing a volunteer organization saying well if they are already volunteers
let's let them do it. I thought that was a really generous and kind way to view
volunteers, but anyone that has worked with volunteers knows that this is what
happens. That people come in they are very enthusiastic, they mean well, but
then just life gets in the way you know, grandma needs help or you lose your job
or something, and volunteering is the first to go off the list. So for a project
where it requires a sustained effort and a skill level to use machines, to be able to
be outside in the hot sun, it is very hard to depend upon that. As an attorney, I
would advise against applying for a maintenance fund grant if that organization
couldn't prove to me that they had commitments from volunteers and staff they
knew could be there. And the way that you get people to commit is that you pay
them. Even paying a staff person to find volunteers, that is really time
consuming. And you have got to train them and all that. So it is just so important
that a 501(c)(3) be given that mechanism so there are boots on the ground and
they can get that work done.
Secondly I want to point out that there are two protections that are in the bill right
now that are really important just to insure that it is fiscally sound. The first is
you have to outline how that money will be used, assuming the Department of
Finance takes over. They will have the job of reviewing that plan to make sure
that the money is allocated in a way that really makes sense. And then after that
job is done, there is an audit and the Department of Finance would insure that that
money was used the right way. And if it wasn't, if it was misused in some way,
they would be potentially or actually... actually based on the language now,
permanently barred from ever applying for another maintenance grant. So no
organization is going to misuse that money. It is going to be used every single
penny, in a way that really makes sense and then really works to make sure that
legacy lands are protected and maintained.
Finally, and I forget this sometimes because I get very wrapped up in these bills
and these ideas. I am very passionate about this. Is just to remind all of us that
this is a recommendation. That at the end it is the voter that is going to decide
and voters have decided over and over that they want money to be spent to
Page 21
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
purchase lands. And I bet you if we just went out on the street right now and
picked somebody off the street in Hilo and said hey did you vote for the PONC
fund, and had to remind them and they say yes, yes, I did, if you said well do you
want non-profit organizations in your neighborhood to be able to pay a staff
person to make sure that the fences stay up and invasives stay out, they would
say, I am sure, well yeah, of course. So, so, let's please get this language in there
and let the voters decide. So thank you so very much for all of your work.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. Mr. Lee.
WARREN LEE: Proposal No. CA -26 in opposition.
MR. LEE: Good morning. Good morning and Aloha members of the Charter
Commission. My name is Warren Lee and I am in opposition to Charter
Amendment 26. A lot has been said today if not previously about opposition to
Charter Amendment 26, and I haven't heard any testimony in favor of Charter
Amendment No. 26. And I will try not to... try my best not to repeat what has
already been said. The... I served as the... I was fortunate to serve the
community as the Director of Public Works from 2008 to 2016. I am a licensed
Professional Engineer in the civil and structural branches. During the eight years
that I served, I had two Deputy Directors, both do not require PE licenses. One
was a... had a financial background, and the other was an attorney. I think that
some of the key things that I wanted to mention other than what has been
mentioned before is that the professional engineer's license, it demonstrates
engineering knowledge and competence, and commitment to a code of ethics.
Skills are improved over time with engineering experience and project
management, project engineering, cost engineering, engineering judgement, and
problem solving.
As Riley Smith mentioned, the Department of Public Works is probably one of
the larger departments in the County of Hawai`i. Something like about 300, when
I was there, about 360 employees covering a wide range of topics with the core
being engineering and building. And also, traffic and signals which requires
engineering and highway maintenance and construction which requires an
engineering background, preferably a licensed engineering background. And
also, fleet management and administration. But when you get down to the real
nuts and bolts of it, what I found out in this... in my role as the Deputy Director...
well, in my role as the Director of Public Works, is really what you are
representing is you are representing the County of Hawai`i in the best professional
way in dealing with your peers. Peer relationships, this includes not only within
the County, which would be the Planning Department, and the Finance
Department, but also a lot of interaction with State Departments, whether it be the
Department of Health, the Department of Land and Natural Resources, the
Department of Transportation, the Office of Environmental Quality Control,
engineering and architectural consultants, and even attorneys.
Page 22
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
RECESS:
RECONVENE:
Federal agencies to include FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) in
times of disaster, and even non -disaster, non -disaster being mostly the floodplain
management issues, Federal Highways Administration, Federal Transportation
Administration, and even the Hawai`i Congressional Delegation. And last of all,
most of all, the community. So the point that I am trying to get across is that
having a licensed professional engineer for a department which is basically
engineering and with a substantial amount of administration is handled primarily
with the last call other than being the Mayor, would be the Director, and the
Director of Public Works certainly with input from the Deputy Director of Public
Works, and the division heads. So I think it is important that Charter Amendment
No. 26 be changed if not deleted as proposed. Thank you for your time. I guess I
should... normally when I sit here, I ask if there are any other questions, but I
guess I am not allowed to do that right, Chair Adams?
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks for your testimony sir. Is there any other testifiers in
Kona? Seeing none, do we have any other testifiers here in Hilo? Alright, at this
time I would entertain a motion to... moving on to approval of minutes, I would
entertain a motion to approve the regular meeting minutes of... alright, let's take a
brief recess.
At 10:48 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
The meeting reconvened at 10:54 a.m.
CHR. ADAMS: Let's bring this meeting back to order. Thank you. No we are
not. Thanks for trying to check me though. No, Paul is here. I saw him.
MS. RICE: Oh, there he is.
MR. HENRICKS: Thanks for the recess Chair.
APPROVAL OF The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
MINUTES: Approval of Minutes.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright, let's move on to approval of minutes. I would entertain
a motion to approve the May 10, 2019 regular meeting minutes.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So moved.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MS. SAQUING: Second.
Page 23
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter and
seconded by Commissioner Saquing to approve the minutes. Is there any
discussion on the minutes? Seeing none, all in favor of the motion please signify
by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? The motion passes unanimously with
Commissioners Hopkins and Todd excused.
Vote on Motion Commissioner Zelko Schlueter moved to approve the minutes of
To Approve Minutes: May 10, 2019. Seconded by Commissioner Saquing and carried
(Approved) by the following voice vote:
COMMUNI-
CATIONS:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Zelko
Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 9
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins and Todd - 2
Excused: None.
The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
Communications.
CHR. ADAMS: Before we move into communications, let me just make a quick
comment. Without objection, this is potentially pulling a portion of
announcements on the agenda forward. I don't think that this is actually just
facts, it is not anything that is... if you will, substantive. One is I would just point
out that all votes that we will take today on second and final reading, including I
believe the amendments if there are any amendments, for those require a vote of
six to pass. Right, so we have nine of us here, it is still a requirement that we
have six to pass, just so we know this.
We will potentially move agenda items around when we get to the New Business,
we will make some of those potential moves just so you are aware of that. And
then finally for the public, I am doing this at this point, I would do this at the end
of the meeting, but I would like to just do this at the beginning without objection.
So we understand the timeline that we have in front of us right. So we have
talked a little bit about this but now that we are getting to the end of this initial
portion of our responsibility, let me just again lay this out. So we understand that
we will... we have a responsibility, we actually have a statutory requirement to
get our activities report and proposed Charter amendments that have passed
second and final reading, to the County Council no later than June 26th, and that
is what our current schedule has got us working towards. The Council then has
30 days to review and come back with any alternatives, should they have
alternatives, to us. So that's July 26th, and then we would meet... the plan would
be for us to meet at some time in August when we get to the end of the meeting
Page 24
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
we can specifically identify those dates, but that's the plan. And then should there
be a recall of any alternatives that the Council has proposed, the recall would be
by the Council, meaning that they would pull back any alternatives that we have
not accepted. They would potentially do that at the August 21st meeting.
So what we have... and then following that, we would then get into language, we
then would make sure that we have provided whatever has passed our second, our
review that has occurred after the Council had their review, and any alternatives
that the Council has not recalled, that would then be presented to the Clerk, and
we would then have the responsibility as a Commission to come up with the ballot
language that would then go before the voters in November of 2020. We will get
to that probably in our August meeting. Talking about how to do that, but just so
that there is an understanding that for the purposes of the public's understanding,
the public of course has had the opportunity to provide correspondence to us, has
had the opportunity to provide testimony both at our regular meetings as well as at
our public hearings, and then of course, depending on what the Council does, the
Council... uh, the public will have an opportunity should there be any Council
work that is done on the report that we provide to them, then the public will have
the opportunity at those meetings and then in our August... at least in the August
session, that we will certainly have, the public will have another opportunity to
provide testimony and statements on whatever the proposals look like at that time.
Are there any questions about what I have stated?
Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: So, after it has come back from Council, then if the public is... gives
comment, what difference... what effect is the public comment have? Because at
that point, it is set in stone right?
CHR. ADAMS: The items that... if the Council has looked at the proposals that
we have set forward and the Council provides some alternatives, then it is our
responsibility to take a look at that and we can review the alternatives in the...
associated with our proposals, right, so those are then not locked in stone
necessarily right, because we are then reviewing what the Council has come back
to us on.
MS. RICE: Okay. Okay. Thanks.
CHR. ADAMS: The information having to do with the scheduling is a moving
target due to what the Council does. So the understanding of our scheduling is
based off of... particularly after July, is based off where the Council, when the
Council does whatever it does. Okay. Let's move on to Communications.
Communication No. 1 is 24.104 transmitting a proposed amendment to CA -9,
Draft 3, as submitted by Commissioner Hopkins. I would suggest without
Page 25
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
objection, that we move these, any discussions that we have on these items, to
the... these are all related to proposed amendments and we can address those
discussions at that point.
Communication, Item No. 2 is Communication No. 35.32 transmitting a proposed
amendment to CA -18 Draft 2, submitted by Commissioner Rice. And then Item
No. 3, is Communication No. 39.2 transmitting a proposed amendment to CA -22
as submitted by Chair Adams.
REPORTS The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
Reports.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Reports, we have Communication No. 50 which
transmits the First Reading Report, providing all Charter Amendment Proposals
that are eligible for Second and Final Reading, as submitted by Chair Adams.
Actually, we all know that Chair Adams did not prepare this. This was done by
our extremely incredible staff and so, I very much appreciate that, and it is
available for our review.
MR. HENRICKS: Can we ask the Commission for a motion to approve the
report, just to cleanly dispose of it? It may not have any meaningful effect but it
would make it clear that the report has been reviewed and approved by the
Commission.
CHR. ADAMS: And we can do that at this meeting? We don't have to wait for a
meeting?
MR. HENRICKS: No. It is on the agenda, so yes we can do it now.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Is there a motion... I would entertain a motion to approve
the Communication No. 50, transmitting the First Reading Report.
MR. ROEHRIG: So moved.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Roehrig and seconded by
Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter. Is there any discussion? All those in favor of the
motion please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? Motion passes
unanimously with Commissioners Hopkins and Todd excused.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you Mr. Chair.
Page 26
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Vote on Motion The motion to approve the First Reading Report was carried by the following
To Approve the voice vote:
First Reading Report
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 9
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins and Todd — 2
Excused: None.
UNFINISHED The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of
BUSINESS: business, Unfinished Business.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving... we noticed the next item is Unfinished Business and
we have no Unfinished Business. Moving into New Business, I would like to,
without objection, move Item No. 19, which is CA -26, Draft 3, forward to be
followed then by Item 12, which is CA -18, Draft 2, and then Item No. 7, which is
CA -9, Draft 3. And take those three in order first. Hearing no objection, let's
move on then to Item No. 19, CA -26, Draft 3. At this time I would like to ask
that Vice- Chair Zelko-Schlueter take the Chair.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Adams relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you Chair Adams. Item 19,
transmits CA -26, Draft 3 for second and final reading. Proposal to amend Section
6-2.2 relating to Qualifications for the Director of the Department of Public
Works, to remove the requirement that the Director be a registered Professional
Engineer, add that the five years of administrative experience to be eligible for
appointment as Director be related to the powers, duties, and functions of the
Department of Public Works, and add the requirement that candidates possess a
bachelor's degree in a field related to the powers, duties, and functions of the
Department of Public Works, as submitted by Chair Adams. I would entertain a
motion at this time to pass Charter Amendment 26, Draft 3, for second and final
reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Is there a second? Okay, it has been
moved by Chair Adams and seconded by Commissioner Galimba. Discussion?
Page 27
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this
particular Charter Amendment and I appreciate the amount of testimony that we
received here today, especially and the correspondence that we have received over
the last couple of weeks having to do with this. I think I should say a couple of
items about this and then I would ask without... I would ask that we allow, after I
have made my comments, and perhaps the other Commissioners have, that we
allow Mr. Ono and perhaps Mr. Drake the opportunity to answer questions of the
Commissioners, should there be any that are there.
First of all I should mention that this is about the Charter. This particular
amendment, or this particular Charter Amendment. It is not about public... it is
not about professional engineers, and I obviously think a great deal about
professional engineers. I am married to one you know, so, it is, I think it is
important that where we have the opportunity though, to take a look at what the
responsibilities of the position are, particularly when they are leadership oriented,
that we don't necessarily carve out a smaller niche than is necessary for the
individuals that could serve in that role. There has been a history. I know that we
have heard testimony that part of that history had to do with salary inversion. I
understand that that is very likely, but I also understand that that is not necessarily
totally a factor- the only factor in these issues of making sure that we have a
population that we can take a look at. Or that actually, that the Mayor can take a
look at. Because it is about the Mayor having the ability not... the other thing
about the Charter is that the Charter is a minimum qualification document. And
so this is not to say that a Mayor would not choose somebody that has the
licensure, that has a license as a Professional Engineer, but it certainly I think is
important that the Mayor have the ability to take a look at, for leadership
positions, in the Mayor's cabinet, take a look at those folks that make sense in the
variety of ways that that can be and that is yes, of course administrative, but it is
also management and leadership which are not always the same thing.
I understand that we have added, this is why this is Draft 3, we have added the
idea that there be something that is connected to the powers, duties, and functions
of the Department of Public Works. I agreed to that understanding that the idea is
that we want to make sure that there is at least something that says whoever is
going to be looked at for this position, does have those kinds of talents or
skills...qualifications. So this is to me, it is about making sure that we have the
best possible people available when a Mayor is looking at fulfilling... filling this
very, very important position and that is why I would encourage my fellow
Commissioners to vote to support this particular Charter amendment. Thank you.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: When we first started discussing this, not having any real background
in Public Works, I would have agreed because I felt it was an administrative
position. But listening to the testimony today, reading the testimony that we
received, which was considerable, it was very thoughtful and it brought to my
Page 28
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
attention items concerning the possibility of disasters which we have had a few of,
where you... where a person must deal with FEMA, where you have to deal with
other state entities and the engineering background that that person would have, to
me, would be invaluable in speaking the same language in dealing with the same
stringent requirements that an engineer would be required to have and to comply
with. So I, because of the testimony we have received, would prefer to add back
into this... leave what we already have added, and add back to it that the Director
shall be a Registered Professional Engineer.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Would the Commissioners find it
valuable to have Mr. Ono, Mr. Drake, or Mr. Beck come up to answer any further
questions? Okay.
(Note: At this time Mr. Hugh Ono came forward to address the members of the
Commission.)
MR. ONO: I am ready to respond to any questions that you may have.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: I want to open my question by stating that if for no other reason
than educating the Charter Commissioners on the role of engineers, it has been a
very, very, useful and positive exercise for me personally. And I will say that the
literature and the wording parallels so closely with that document that you have to
comply with to become a licensed veterinarian. Where the underscoring of public
health and safety to the community is an absolute foundational value. My
question would be one thing that I did not read, is that in current licensure for
many professions, there is a very bold statement about continuing education and I
didn't see any reference made to that. Could you elaborate a little bit on that?
MR. ONO: I certainly can. Would you like to...
MR. BECK: Why don't you start, I can add if you miss anything.
CHR. ADAMS: I am sorry. If I could ask our testifiers to please put your
microphones on, thanks.
MR. ONO: Yes. Mine is on. Commissioner Bergin, the continuing education
requirement is a state by state requirement, so as far as licensure, although the
exam is given nationally, it is the states that are responsible for the actual issuing
of the license itself. So when you take the exam, one takes the exam...
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Sorry, Mr. Ono, I don't think your
mic is on. Oh is it? It just... oh, okay.
Page 29
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. ONO: I have a short neck. Is that better? Okay, getting back to that, so,
many states have continuing education. I don't believe that the State of Hawai`i,
its board has made that a requirement yet. It is something that will likely come.
Does that answer the question?
MR. BERGIN: That does. I would like to expand a little bit... my discussion and
my observation, and as I said, this exercise for me has been very much learning
about the background to a lot of things that I didn't understand. But there is one
thing that I do understand. Of all the professions, there is probably none that are
more dependent upon exacting data. For instance veterinary medicine is very
subjective. You have multiple diagnoses, differential diagnoses, you have a lot of
different ways to treat them. In engineering it is a matter of fairly exact
determination of data. And because of that, I would be very disinclined in any
way to lower the requirements for leadership in our County's Public Works
Department. And I have to say that having carried a Hawai`i Veterinary License
for 52 years and watching it evolve into a situation where we have to comply with
continuing education. That is in a field that is very, very, subjective and is
changing. Technology is going forward so quickly that we have to, and maybe in
engineering it is not as sensitive to technologic changes that would require that for
the fact that it is basically a mathematical and physical measurement of what you
are setting out to do, but I do want to very publically state that Hawai`i is a highly
regulated state and while at times I get very impatient with that, at the end of the
day, I am grateful for how carefully Hawai`i does business. Thank you.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Are there any further questions from
Commissioners for Mr. Beck or Mr. Ono?
CHR. ADAMS: If I may, I do. In reviewing, in doing my due diligence and
taking a look at whether or not this was to me a good idea, I know that there are
differing opinions on that. One of the things I came across was a comment or a
statement by someone who is an instructor and the engineer is a leader, as a part
of the Engineer Leadership Institute, part of the NSPE, and the comment was as
an engineering leader, you are challenged to step beyond your technical expert
status and move your peers and employers to embrace your vision for the future.
And when I was reading the variety of correspondence that we received from
Professional Engineers in this County and from outside of the County, there was a
great deal of focus on the technical expertise piece. I would be interested in
getting your perspective on the necessity to expand upon that and the... really, the
ability... maybe capacity is a better term, but in either case, of Professional
Engineers to fulfil these leadership positions that are not necessarily things that
Professional Engineers find in their curriculum when you are at the beginning of
your careers.
MR. ONO: Go ahead Curt.
Page 30
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
(Note: At this time Curt Beck came forward to address the members of the
Commission.)
MR. BECK: I will just say that there is an anecdote that goes around that an
extroverted engineer is someone who, when he is talking to you, is looking at
your shoes instead of his or hers. So, but, what does this have to do with
leadership and I think you are right. Over the years, engineering education itself
has been evolving and it has been a continuing discussion going on in the
educational community as well as among professional engineers, as this program
has evolved. Engineers have been required to work in types of courses in their
undergraduate educations that deal with more than just technical issues. And
among these are ethical issues and learning more about financial issues, and even
politics. So I think that is evolving and I take your point very well. And Mr.
Bergin's question about continuing education. In other states, continuing
education for engineers requires more than just technical continuing education. It
does require credits in things like ethics. So, and we are very supportive of that.
MR. ONO: I might add also to that, for a good majority of engineers, like let's
say a good percentage of engineers, many of them end up in management. It
seems to be a track that if one desires to go into management, you go into
engineering first and you get into the real technical engineering aspects, but what
happens over time is that the engineering profession needs supervisors and
managers, so many engineers, myself being an example, ended up in
management. And so it is a logical track that takes place. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further questions?
MR. ONO: May I add something?
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
MR. ONO: It was just a couple of points. Okay. I have observed this.
Department of Public Works and other places that I have worked, that we are not
fortunate to have a PE as the head of the agency, and this is not right. But I have
heard it from subordinate staff, that there is something there with the relationship
and I have heard it before well, he's not a licensed engineer. You know... it
shouldn't be there but it is something that is there that subordinate engineers in
general feel better when they are reporting to a peer so to speak. And I had
mentioned and I am surprised nobody asked me about the one profession that I
personally work with that I see the ability to grasp this kind of thing and also do
it, and that would be lawyers. Because somehow they have the ability to catch on
to things and I have worked with many lawyers in traffic accident cases and also
in litigation of civil suits, civil engineering matters but it just amazes me, the
Page 31
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
ability to, I think it is the way they are trained and the way they look at things,
they just can catch on to things really good.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thanks. So I don't necessarily... well, I guess I could ask a
question before I sort of say what I wanted to say. In your education as engineers,
is there... do you take any courses in the environment, like what effect an
engineering project would have on, and I am talking about the biological like
communities that might be part of the area that the engineering project is
undertaken.
MR. ONO: While there is no courses and I will let Mr. Beck speak to that too,
there is a thing they called environmental studies that are mandatory for any new
project and undertaking. It is either environmental assessment or environmental
impact statement. And those are really comprehensive disclosure type documents
that you have to discuss all aspects of the project and the impacts other than just
environmental, they go to social issues too. And this is a public hearing thing that
requires the approval of the governing person. Be it the Mayor for the County of
the Governor of the State of Hawai`i, but it does go through an extensive process.
MS. GALIMBA: So you do have as part of your degree for engineering, a
requirement to take a class in that?
MR. BECK: Yes. I will just add that of Hugh's and my educational era, the
environmental movement was just awakening at the time we were going to
school, and as I mentioned, the curricula, the accredited curricula, because
engineering curricula have to be accredited, that is a very important point. It does
include environmental studies that the engineers have to be aware of. And so like
I say, it has been an evolving process and we would expect that if continuing
education becomes a part of the law in Hawai`i, that it would necessarily include
that aspect as well.
MS. GALIMBA: Okay. Well thank you. That was something I was curious
about. So, I just wanted to speak to the proposal. And I found the testimony as
Commissioner Bergin mentioned, very interesting and I learned a lot from it. I
think the most compelling argument was that it is important for people to speak
the same language or to be able to understand engineering language. I think that
was the most compelling for me. The least compelling argument was the
argument that we initially heard on the first reading, was that engineers are held to
this ethical standard which I appreciate very much, but it is not necessarily only
engineers that are held to that standard. It should be really anyone you know, in
that position of authority. And lawyers, and other professionals of course are also
held to high standards of authority. So that, speaking the same language, as you
mentioned, is very useful and I guess professional engineers like to talk to other
professional engineers, but we all have to learn to speak to others. And look up
Page 32
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
from their feet and sort of engage with larger issues, so that to me is why I think I
am still in support of this proposal. Because I think that really when you are a
leader, it is a how... it is not the how that is so important. It is the why and
looking at larger social issues. I definitely agree that any large public work
should be looked at by a professional engineer and not overruled. I don't
necessarily think that we should have it in the Charter that it needs to be a public
engineer because I... and I, that is just based on of course sort of subjective
experiences where I have seen people that were in positions that were probably
not the best person for that position but the position required a PE and so that was
the person that was there. Again, we are all coming at it from our particular
backgrounds, yes, yes.
MR. BECK: Would you feel better if the language was instead of requiring, that
it be the preference that it be a licensed engineer? I mean this is kind of... we
wanted to be a part of the discussion. I think that was our point and we were not
part of the discussion in drafting this, the engineering community I am talking
about. So that is one of the things that if this Commission cannot agree with us
that at least set this aside. Let us work with you to get something that makes
everyone feel comfortable. We are certainly not comfortable not having a strong
statement about licensure. And I think that kind of came out in our testimony, so
I would say we want to be a part of this discussion.
MS. GALIMBA: I would be very comfortable with preference. I am not sure if
we have the time to change it, but if we do, that would be... I would be fine with
that.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further questions for Mr. Beck or
Mr. Ono?
Thank you both for answering those questions.
MR. ONO: Thank you. Thank you very much for your time.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: I would like to make a motion.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay.
MS. RICE: Is there one on the floor?
CHR. ADAMS: There is a motion to pass CA -26, Draft 3.
MS. RICE: Oh.
CHR. ADAMS: So yours would be an amendment?
Page 33
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MS. RICE: Correct. Thank you. I would like to make an amendment to the
motion to insert in the six two dash, oh, point two, Director of Public Works etc.
A preference for the Director, let's see how would I... Uh oh, Jon?
MR. HENRICKS: This is where I get "oogee" and that will be in the minutes.
MS. RICE: I would like to have your help in stating a... that a preference shall be
given to a Registered Professional Engineer for Director.
MR. HENRICKS: Wording aside which is critical obviously at this stage because
the Commission is not so... may I speak generally to amendments today? If...
permission?
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: One of the opportunities we had at previous meetings where
amendments were made is... gives staff a chance to look at the amendments and
the language carefully. In the moment sometimes when we are drafting things or
things are coming off kind of in an ad...
MS. RICE: ad hoc...
MR. HENRICKS: Well, yeah. Then we can come back and say this wasn't
quite... this doesn't seem like the best way to do this. This is our last chance
today, so we need to make sure whatever we have on paper that is going to the
Council and most likely to the electorate, is as good as it can possibly be. So I
would like to keep that in mind.
Speaking particularly to the concept of adding a preference, when we were
looking at the, I can't remember which position it was, a different amendment that
talked about education requirements and we were also considering including
preference for a certain type of education or licensing, it is good to understand the
process for selecting a Director of Public Works, is the Mayor provided the
criteria... well, it doesn't even... it is the Mayor's perspective on the criteria,
picks a person. Then the Council confirms that nomination. We have other areas
in the Charter where there are language about preferences, but those are for
positions where there are actual applicants and there is a vetting process by a
board or commission. I don't know if preferential language works under this type
of hiring process where the Mayor selects a singular person and puts that person
before the Council.
Who... it could be embedded in there, but I don't know the value of saying that it
is preferred, when the Mayor alone makes the decision of who to nominate and
put before the Council.
Page 34
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MS. RICE: Okay, then I will just... adding preference was to address what
Commissioner Galimba had stated. But personally, I would just simply reinstate
what is already there. The Director shall be a Registered Professional Engineer.
So that will be my amendment.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So Commissioner Rice, so basically I
think when we take the vote, you would... if that was your preference, I think you
would vote no to pass this motion and put it back to the way it was. To leave it
the way it is.
MS. RICE: Well not necessarily. I like the way... I like the additions of the
bachelor's degree there from an accredited college or university, and both of
which referring back to the experience and then the bachelor's degree and they
would be related to powers, duties, and functions of the Department. I would like
to keep that in there and simply add back, the Director shall be a Registered
Professional Engineer. So I am not changing anything that isn't already there. I
am simply adding that phrase or sentence.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So I suppose I would have a question
then for the Professional Engineers. In that once...
CHR. ADAMS: Point of order. I am reserving the right to object. I will second
that amendment. I will second her motion. Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: So what Ms. Rice is proposing to do is to amend this proposal
to take the language that is stricken out, the second sentence, and revive it, but
retain everything else as well.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So we have a motion from
Commissioner Rice, seconded by Chair Adams. All those in favor of...
MR. HENRICKS: You would probably like to have discussion...
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yeah, right. Discussion.
MR. HENRICKS: Oh no, you don't have to ask for... you can just start the
discussion.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So now we can open it up for
discussion.
MR. ROEHRIG: I am lost. If you vote yes for this, then you are wiping out what
he wants to do, Adams?
Page 35
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: No. What Commissioner Rice is
proposing is that you use the language that Chair Adams has put before the
Commission...
MR. ROEHRIG: But also require...
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: But also add back in the requirement
to be a Professional Licensed Engineer.
MR. ROEHRIG: So the Professional Engineer will remain?
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
MR. ROEHRIG: In the law, and it is not being taken out as suggested by Mr.
Adams.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
MR. ROEHRIG: And that is a yes vote, will do that?
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: For that amendment, yes.
MR. ROEHRIG: To her motion, okay, thank you.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Bergin.
MR. HENRICKS: Permission to speak freely.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: If I may. And I think that your instincts to bring Mr. Ono and
Mr. Beck up are accurate. I just wonder if the Director is a Registered
Professional Engineer, the other two items are more than likely to already be true,
then I wonder at that point and forgive me for being so frank, if that is a question
we really want to put to the voters. We need to consider a ballot and how many
questions are on it. With everything today, and also consider how much attention
span voters have. And again, I ask for permission to speak freely. I think that is a
good question. Does the items one and two... so essentially, if this vote were to
pass it would mean that we are, the Commission would be proposing an
amendment to 6-2.2 that adds that a bachelor's degree is required, which I would
presume a bachelor's degree is already required to be a Registered Professional
Engineer, and probably the bachelor's degree is going to have something to do
with the powers, duties, and functions of the Department of Public Works, if they
are a Professional Registered Engineer. Maybe not, but then the question is
should that preclude a Registered Professional Engineer from being the
Department Director if they had a bachelor's degree in... I don't remember what
Page 36
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Ms. Leithead-Todd's examples were but Music or something of that nature, which
I don't even know if that's possible. And then also that the... so the change
would also be that the five years of administrative experience or supervisory
experience were related to the powers, duties, and functions of the Department of
Public Works, which again, it is possible to have a Registered Public Engineer
that had experience in an administrative capacity in another life that wasn't
related to what the Department of Public Works does, but is that probable? So I
think that I was just trying to go with what Ms.... Our acting Chair was trying to
point out. That if you are going to revive the requirement that the Director is a
Registered Professional Engineer, it seems that also takes care of by and large,
maybe not in all instances, items one and two and at that point what you are really
doing is voting the proposal down, which is totally at the option of the
Commissioners.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Mr. Henricks that is exactly what I
had wanted confirmation from the Professional Engineers in the room. I assumed
in order to get that license, you would have needed to have the bachelor's degree.
MR. ONO: May I respond to that?
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
MR. ONO: In most cases and it is not all inclusive, because I am aware of people
that do not have a bachelor's degree but are licensed, because they have ended up
practicing in the area and become proficient enough to have gained their PE
certification. It takes a long time to do that, but it is possible that you can have a
PE without a bachelor's degree.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So that... is that an apprenticeship
type program? You would have to show a certain amount of hours in that field?
MR. ONO: No. No. It is... it's the area that you practice and work in. Basically
what happens is that you submit an application to take the exam and it is reviewed
by the State Board, that selected individuals that sit and review your application to
determine whether or not you are qualified to take the national exam or not. So
it's... it would be highly unusual for a person out of high school to be able to
qualify for the exam. It is usually a person that has been in the practice area for
between 15 and 20 years.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. Thank you for that. Does
anyone else have any questions for Mr. Ono?
Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: I would just make a quick comment. By leaving in the underlined
material here, possess a bachelor's degree etc., I think when we discussed this
originally, we wanted someone with a broader base, background, then just a
Page 37
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
focused background because the Public Works is such a big entity with many
facets to it. And I think that by restoring the Registered Professional Engineer
and keeping in the bachelor's degree with related functions, we strengthen the
Directors qualifications so that they are more all-encompassing.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: Maybe it is appropriate to ask. Is the pool of qualified licensed
engineers so scarce and depleted of candidates that we would have to at a point in
time set that aside, or are there engineers, licensed engineers out there? The pool
of candidates is what I am talking about.
MR. ONO: I believe there are. I believe that there is an adequate pool. I really
think the salary inversion has been a huge problem and it existed for years.
MR. BERGIN: Yeah. That answers my question. In other words, it is not like
there is no one available for applications. There are...
MR. ONO: Yes.
MR. BERGIN: Thank you.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further discussion on this
amendment? Okay. Mr. Henricks... oh, thank you Mr. Ono. I think it would be
good to take a roll call vote on this amendment. So if you vote yes, then you are
voting to bring back in the language that requires a Registered Licensed
Professional Engineer with also including the bachelor's degree and the other
language that was in there.
MR. HENRICKS: Is that clear to Commissioners?
MS. SAQUING: Can you re -read what we are voting on?
MR. HENRICKS: Okay. Simply put, you are looking at the proposal as it is on
your page. You are taking the stricken out material that says the Director shall be
a Registered Professional Engineer and you are bringing it back. You are
resurrecting it. So Mr. Adams's proposal, his original proposal, it is gone
essentially. What the proposal would be now essentially would be to add the
requirements that the Director have a bachelor's degree, that is associated with the
Department's duties and functions and also have five years of administrative
experience, which was already required, but now those five years would need to
be related to the duties... powers, duties, and functions of the Department. So
simply put, it is bringing back that requirement that the Director must be a
Registered Professional Engineer and keeping the amendments that were made
recently.
Page 38
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. ROEHRIG: So what does that do to the motion? The original motion? It
kills it.
MR. HENRICKS: That's not for me to say.
MS. SAQUING: So I have another question. So that is the yes vote.
MR. HENRICKS: I am just making sure. Ms. Saquing has the floor?
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: Okay. Thank you.
MS. SAQUING: Just for clarification, a vote yes accepts the new, what you just
stated.
MR. HENRICKS: Yes. Ms. Rice's proposal to...
MS. SAQUING: A vote for no... ah...
MR. HENRICKS: A no vote just keeps the amendment as it is for further
discussion.
MS. SAQUING: Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: We are not voting on the main motion right now. You are just
voting on the prospect of changing the proposal, to as Ms. Rice, Ms. Rice,
Commissioner Rice described.
MS. SAQUING: And I had one more question if I may. What if we had the
option of just eliminating the proposed amendments and just revert to the original
Charter as it stands?
MR. HENRICKS: You would vote... regardless of how you vote on this, you
would vote no to the main motion.
MS. SAQUING: Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: To approve CA -26, Draft 3 as amended or not, on second and
final reading. That no vote removes the proposal from the table and from the
ballot.
MS. SAQUING: Okay. Thank you.
MR. HENRICKS: Are we ready?
Page 39
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: Okay, on the motion to amend CA -26, Draft 3 by reviving the
original language that the Director shall be a Registered Professional Engineer,
Mr. Bergin (yes), Ms. Galimba (no), Mr. Hamano (yes), Mr. Hopkins, Ms.
Leithead-Todd, Ms. Rice (yes), Mr. Roehrig (no), Ms. Saquing (yes), Ms.
Springer (yes), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (no), Chair Adams (no). You have one, two,
three... Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter, you have five votes in favor.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Which means it doesn't pass.
MR. HENRICKS: You need six. Correct.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So now we are back in the original
motion that we were discussing. Is there any further discussion on the original
motion? So just so we are all clear, a vote yes would pass the motion which does
not require the Professional Licensed Engineer. A vote no reverts back to the
language that we currently have okay? Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: You are very close. A vote yes, you are voting for what you
see on this page right here. A no vote, nothing goes to the ballot about this.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Oh yes.
Commissioner Hamano.
MR. HAMANO: Yeah, I am a little bit torn by this proposed amendment. I can
see the reason why there was an attempt to sort of broaden the qualifications for
this position, but you know, from listening to the testimony and considering this
impacts the health and welfare of the community, I would just err on the side of
caution and basically keep things in the status quo, and I would you know, prefer
that the Director be a Registered Professional Engineer.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further discussion?
I guess I would just add in observing what happened last year during the
emergency, the Kilauea lava flow, Department of Public Works plays a really
integral, very important role in emergencies, so I feel much more comfortable if
you have got someone with the background that that very technical background.
So, with that, if there is no further comments, can we take a roll call vote on this?
MR. HENRICKS: Okay, on the motion to approve CA -26, Draft 3 on second and
final reading, Mr. Bergin (no), Ms. Galimba (yes), Mr. Hamano (no), Mr.
Hopkins, Ms. Leithead-Todd, Ms. Rice (no), Mr. Roehrig (no), Ms. Saquing (no),
Ms. Springer (no), Commissioner Adams (yes), Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter
(no). Acting Chair, you have two votes in favor.
Page 40
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay, thank you. So the motion did
not pass. There were two votes in favor with Commissioners Hopkins and Todd
excused.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter relinquished the chair back to
Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Reclaiming my chair.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes. Thanks.
CHR. ADAMS: At this time we would move on to Item 12, which is CA -18,
Draft 2. for second and final reading, Proposal to amend Section 10-16, Public
Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Maintenance Fund to
transfer administrative duties to the Department of Finance and add permissible
uses of the fund, as submitted by Commissioner Rice.
Right. So this is Item 12, CA -18.
CHR. ADAMS: It is CA -18. Item 12, under New Business. Okay? I would
entertain a motion.
MR. ROEHRIG: So moved.
CHR. ADAMS: I appreciate that. I am going to continue to say, but you have the
motion. To approve CA -18, Draft 2 on second and final reading. It has been
moved by Commissioner Roehrig. Is there a second?
It has been seconded by Commissioner Galimba. With the movers permission, I
am going to ask Commissioner Rice if she has any items for discussion.
MS. RICE: Yes. Thank you. I will need a little help here I do believe. But I
would like to make an amendment to re -instate the as was presented, to re -instate
the ability of the stewardship groups to pay vol... to pay members of their
501(c)(3)'s as delineated in the stewardship plan that would be approved by
PONC and the Department of Finance.
MR. HENRICKS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: For simplification, could you make your motion to amend CA -
18, Draft 2 with the contents of Communication No. 35.32?
Page 41
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MS. RICE: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: That is your motion?
MS. RICE: That is my motion. I gotta find it. I move that we approve CA -18,
Draft 2 as amended, by amending Section 10-16(h)(6) to read as follows, and
deleting the first two sentences I believe and adding an officer, board member, or
employee of a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, or the organization that operates
under the umbrella of a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, may receive
compensation for duties that are delineated in the approved stewardship grant
proposal.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second to that amendment?
MS. GALIMBA: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. It has been moved... it has been moved by
Commissioner Rice and seconded by Commissioner Galimba to amend CA -18,
Draft 2 with the contents of Communication No. 35.32.
Commissioner Hamano.
MR. HAMANO: You know I object to the amendment. I raise a point of order.
CHR. ADAMS: Ah, okay. Your point of order being...
MR. HAMANO: Being that we have discussed this very issue twice already. We
had a discussion on this earlier and it was voted down. Then we revisited the
issue and we had the same point of order and it was also voted down. And now
we are coming back again to address this issue and it is basically a reconsideration
of the first one that happened about two months ago.
MS. RICE: So.
CHR. ADAMS: One second. Excuse me. Alright, let's not just have random
comments.
MR. ROEHRIG: Oh, I am talking to myself.
CHR. ADAMS: Unfortunately I can hear you. So we have a point of order. I am
asking the parliamentarian. So with the point of order I need to make a ruling on
the point of order immediately?
MR. HENRICKS: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: There is no discussion, no debate?
Page 42
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: Only amongst yourself.
CHR. ADAMS: So on the point of order that this is an item that we have voted
on previously and then also had an additional vote on and therefore should not
be... should not qualify as an amendment, I find that that point of order is correct.
MS. RICE: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: So with that, as I understand it, that would be a situation where
there is no amendment at this moment.
MR. HENRICKS: That is correct. You have ruled that Mr. Hamano's point of
order is in order and therefore the amendment is not on the floor.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. That is the correct phrasing.
Yes Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Then I would like to make an amendment to suspend the rules, given
that we have had much testimony concerning this in favor of it, and I think it is
worthy of making an effort to get it back into the que so to speak, to be voted on.
CHR. ADAMS: So Commissioner Rice, before... I think the correct way to
probably manage this is... is there a second to that motion?
MR. HENRICKS: Before you proceed, there isn't a rule that is...
CHR. ADAMS: I am aware. Right. Mr. Henricks.
MR. HENRICKS: There isn't a rule. There is a ruling of the Chair. So a
suspension of the rules is not the mechanism to override the Chair's decision.
CHR. ADAMS: Which is what I was going to say.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. That was what I was going to say.
MS. RICE: Oh, I am sorry.
CHR. ADAMS: You would need to, as we have done in the past, object to the
ruling of the Chair.
MS. RICE: Oh, for the point of order.
CHR. ADAMS: Correct.
Page 43
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MS. RICE: Okay. Alright. I object to the point of order.
MR. HENRICKS: So you would make a motion to appeal the Chair's ruling on
the point of order.
MS. RICE: Okay. Thank you. I appeal the...
CHR. ADAMS: Your motion is to appeal the...
MS. RICE: My motion is to appeal the point of order on the ruling of the Chair.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MS. GALIMBA: I'll second.
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Rice and seconded by
Commissioner Galimba to appeal the ruling of the Chair on the point of order by
Commissioner Hamano. I don't believe that there is discussion on this or is
there?
Okay fine.
MR. HENRICKS: It is safer to allow discussion if you want to.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Would you like to discuss that?
MS. RICE: Well it is... I am not sure if I have a legal reason, but I have a reason
that the public, including the stewardship groups and the general public, all would
like to give the stewardship groups the ability to pay people if that... if those
duties are delineated in their stewardship plan.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Thank you. Is there any other...
Mr. Hamano.
MR. HAMANO: Yes, I just do not favor this Commission trying to do something
that is against the procedures that govern this body. And in that regard, I would
like to get an opinion from the Corporation Counsel.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: I would recommend that we go into Executive Session Mr.
Chairman.
CHR. ADAMS: I need a motion to go into Executive Session.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So moved.
Page 44
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter and
seconded by Commissioner Saquing, that we enter Executive Session for the
purposes of the... consulting with the Commission's attorney on questions and
issues pertaining to the Commission's powers, duties, privileges, immunity, and
liabilities. A two-thirds vote of the members present is necessary to hold this
Executive Session. All in favor of the motion, please signify by saying "aye"
(aye), any opposed? Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners Todd and
Hopkins excused. Let's take a brief recess as we go into, prepare for Executive
Session.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright, calling this Executive Session to order. I believe Mr.
Hamano had a question for our Counsel.
RECESS: At 11:55 a.m., the Chair called for a recess to go into Executive Session.
RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 12:25 p.m.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright I would like to bring us back into open session. So
currently we have a motion on the floor to appeal the ruling of the Chair on the
point of order by Commissioner Hamano. Is there any other discussion on that
motion? Is there any other discussion on the motion?
Commissioner Hamano.
MR. HAMANO: Yes, I just feel that this body, this Commission should follow
the rules and the law that governs this body and it sets a bad precedent obviously
to go against that. Opportunity was there before to discuss this particular
amendment and it was voted down. So you know, the opportunity was there. The
main thing though however, is I just do not want this body to you know to just
disregard the rules and the law that governs this body because that sets a bad
precedence. It does not bode well for this Commission. It does not bode well for
this Commission's sort of impression to the community if we were to override the
Chair's ruling which I believe he has made the correct ruling and it is based on the
law.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: I also agree with Commissioner Hamano. My
concern is although the language is not the same, the intention, I think a
reasonable person looking at it, the intention is the same and I am not comfortable
with that, with having to reconsider it, so I agree with Commissioner Hamano.
Commissioner Galimba.
Page 45
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MS. GALIMBA: So at this point, I somewhat tardily in the process, would like to
disclose a sort of potential situation in relation to PONC, the PONC program. As
I have mentioned before, I am a rancher in Ka`u and in the last... so... I lease a
piece of property that is being considered, actively considered for PONC
acquisition but in the last month since we have had our last meeting, another
property has come before the PONC for potential consideration, very potential. It
has just been brought to them. They haven't voted on it or anything, that is
adjacent to a property that I own and that I would... they would need to have
access across my property to get to this potential PONC acquisition, so I don't
believe that I have a material interest at this point or financial interest, however I
wanted to in fullness of disclosure, wanted to disclose that and right, I just wanted
to bring that. If you feel that I need to recuse Chair, then I would be willing to do
that.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks Commissioner Galimba. Mr. Yoshimoto I have gone
through our rules, I may have missed it but I don't see a reference to handling
recusals by the Commission.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yeah, I don't see that in our rules either Mr. Chairman. Just
for the record, just so that everyone knows, you know pursuant to our Charter
provision 14-3, disclosure of interest, I will just read it for the record Mr.
Chairman if you don't mind. It shall be incumbent upon all employees and
officers of the County... and as Commissioners you are officers of the County, to
make full disclosure in writing to the appointing authority or to the Council in the
case of an elected officer, the possession or acquisition of any interest financial or
otherwise as might reasonably tend to create a conflict with the public interest.
And it goes on to talk about... well, I will just read the whole thing. Any member
of the Council who knows of a personal interest direct or indirect in any action
proposed or pending before the Council, shall disclose such interest prior to
taking any vote thereon and file a copy with the County Clerk and which shall
become a matter of public record.
So Mr. Chairman, yeah, I don't see any provision within our rules...
MR. HENRICKS: We do have an indirect provision that provides that a member
may not abstain from voting unless...
CHR. ADAMS: Right. I saw that.
MR. HENRICKS: Unless they have been excused by the Chair, and that's what
that is for.
CHR. ADAMS: Oh, okay.
Page 46
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Vote on Motion
to Appeal the
Chair's Ruling on
Commissioner
Rice's Amendment
to CA -18, Draft 2::
MR. HENRICKS: Essentially if you are in the room, you need to vote. Say yes
or no, and if you say nothing, that's a yes vote. So to be excused you would have
to have a reason that would be stated and you would essentially approve.
CHR. ADAMS: Got it. Thanks. I am not inclined to relieve you from your
responsibility to vote. Okay.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: And to be clear for the record, Ms. Galimba is choosing to
move forward right? You are good with that right? You are comfortable with
that? Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Mr. Yoshimoto. Thank you Mr. Henricks. So we
have the motion, we have had discussion, let's have a roll call vote if you don't
mind Mr. Henricks, on this particular motion.
MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to... I am sorry. On the motion to appeal the
Chair's ruling on Mr. Hamano's point of order, Mr. Bergin...
CHR. ADAMS: I apologize. I apologize. Let me... before you do that, just so
that we are clear, a yes vote would indicate that you disagree with my ruling and
we would be putting Commissioner Rice's amendment back on the floor. A no
vote means you agree with my ruling and then we are back to the CA -18, Draft 2
motion.
MR. HENRICKS: Correct.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. I just wanted to make sure that we are clear on that.
Okay. Thank you.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin (no), Ms. Galimba (yes), Mr. Hamano (no), Mr.
Hopkins, Ms. Leithead-Todd, Ms. Rice (aye), Mr. Roehrig (no), Ms. Saquing
(no), Ms. Springer (no), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (no), Chair Adams (no).
Chair Adams you have two votes in favor.
CHR. ADAMS: The motion does not pass. Do I have to say anything else? I
don't think so. Okay great.
The motion to appeal the Chair's ruling on Commissioner rice's amendment to
CA -18, Draft 2 failed by the following voice vote:
Ayes:
Noes:
Absent:
Excused:
Commissioners Galimba and Rice — 2
Commissioners Bergin, Hamano, Roehrig,
Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter, and
Chair Adams — 7
Commissioners Hopkins and Todd — 2
None.
Page 47
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Vote on Motion
To Approve
CA -18, Draft 2
(Approved):
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Moving back then into the consideration of the motion
to approve CA -18, Draft 2 on second and final reading, is there any further
discussion on this. Mr. Bergin did you have...
MR. BERGIN: No.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there any other discussion regarding this particular motion?
Alright. Remind me again the motion was made by Commissioner Roehrig and
seconded by Commissioner Galimba I believe. Is that correct? Okay great.
Alrighty.
All in favor of the motion to pass on second and final reading CA -18, Draft 2,
please signify by saying aye (aye), any opposed? Motion passes unanimously with
Commissioners Todd and Hopkins excused.
The motion to pass CA -18, Draft 2 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
the following roll call vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 9
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins and Todd — 2
Excused: None.
NEW BUSINESS: The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
New Business.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to New Business, Item No. 7, which is CA -9, Draft
3, I would entertain a motion to pass on second and final reading the proposal to
amend Section 10-15 to provide that funds from the Public Access, Open Space
and Natural Resources Preservation Fund be used to fund a staff position
dedicated to administering the provisions of Section 10-15 and 10-16 PONC
Preservation Maintenance Fund as submitted by Commissioner Galimba.
MR. ROEHRIG: So moved.
MS. GALIMBA: Second.
Page 48
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Roehrig and seconded by
Commissioner Galimba. With the movers permission, Commissioner Galimba do
you have anything that you would like to say about this particular motion?
MS. GALIMBA: Not a lot. I think it is very important that we support the PONC
fund and make it as strong and vital as it can be, and I support this language. I
believe... I personally believe that... I like the flexibility of the word staff
because I would like to... I think there is potentially need for more help than just
one person can do in this office. Especially in helping to administer the
maintenance fund. So that is what I have to say, thanks.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Because Commissioner Hopkins is not here to speak to this, I feel
that his proposed amendment to CA -9 actually clarifies the use of the staff person.
The problem with having it in the general wording it is now, it doesn't give the
direction to a single person to be working strictly on the preservation fund and all
of its ramifications. So I really think that it would be better served and our
taxpayer dollar better used if we had the one full-time staff person employed by
the Department of Finance, only to administering activities contained within this
Section. And this would be in addition to the present County Code which allows
for a staff person in a part-time basis. So...
CHR. ADAMS: Is that a, is that...
MS. RICE: Yes. It... would it be appropriate for me at this point to make an...
okay. I'll make an... a motion...
MR. HENRICKS: Commissioner Rice, you are on a roll. I just... for
simplification, because it is drafted out, you can, your motion can simply be to
amend CA -9, Draft 3 with the contents of Communication, assuming I know
where you are going...
MS. RICE: Ah, yes.
MR. HENRICKS: You mentioned Mr. Hopkins... 24.104.
MS. RICE: Okay. Got it.
MR. HENRICKS: And that should be clear for the record and Commissioners
should have 24.104 as part of their packets today to reference. Thank you. Sony
for the interruption.
MS. RICE: Thank you. No...
Page 49
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Can we assume that what Mr. Henricks has said is what you
would like to do?
MS. RICE: That is correct.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? Thank you. Is there a second to that motion?
Alright. It has been moved by Commissioner Rice and seconded by
Commissioner Bergin. Discussion on the motion to amend CA -9, Draft 3.
Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: Thank you. I actually had a question for Ms. Sako if she can
step up please.
CHR. ADAMS: Director Sako, thank you for being here.
MS. SAKO: Good afternoon.
MS. SAQUING: Thank you. I wanted a little bit of clarification on... it was my
understanding that there was an existent staff person who was somewhat
managing the PONC fund but not designated or focused on that, correct? And
then the purpose of the initial amendment was to word it so that that position is
designated and dedicated to administering the fund and now I see it says this in
addition to any staff person provided by... provided for in the County Code to
assist in Public Access. So there is yet another person and where is this... is it in
the County Code or is it part of the existing Charter?
MS. SAKO: So I did look through the County Code and I didn't see it
specifically named so I am not sure what it might be referring to. But right now
we do have a person that serves as the secretary so to speak of the Commission
you know, and then... oh thank you... he is so handy to have around. It does say
staff support shall be provided by the Finance Department under the PONC
Commission, and so that is, that we do have a person that serves as their
secretary, takes the minutes, and what not, much like your Commission has. And
so that person does work on PONC things. They help them go on site visits and
you know write up the reports, and do all of those things. You know we are still
in a sort of more of an advisory role. The PONC Commission... as an advisor in
the grant process. Right now it is still under Parks and Rec (Recreation) until the
amendments go forward. And so she also helps to take care of those things. And
then we have a property manager who works with his staff to do the other pieces
of it, whether it is acquisitions or things like that. So we have different staff
people working on it.
MS. SAQUING: So I had one more question. With regard to the one full-time
staff person employed by your department dedicated only to administering the
activities contained within this Section... what happens if there is not... like that
Page 50
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
person doesn't have... can't be focusing only on PONC issues, like they probably
work, I don't know... they only have work to do 30 hours a week just on this,
does that fall under the purview of you you know, reducing the hours or how
does... how is that managed?
MS. SAKO: You know that is one of the difficulties I have with this amendment
when it says one full-time and only... when there is very absolutes it is... it does
make it hard. There are provisions in HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) that does
mandate that all employees can be called into duty for you know, natural disasters
or other things like that. And one full-time... so you know, I would have trouble.
There may be weeks where they are very busy and maybe have to work over 40
hours a week and others where it may be only 20 hours' worth of work. It may
depend of the time of the year, so I would have a hard time because you know, I
don't want someone... government gets criticized enough. I don't want someone
sitting there twiddling their thumbs for the rest of the day because they are not
allowed to do anything else. And so I prefer not... I think I mentioned before
when this... a similar amendment came up that you know, I prefer it not to have
like specific positions named or mandated. It makes it difficult. I think for... in
any department to know how to implement something like this.
MS. SAQUING: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Bergin
MR. BERGIN: I have never been comfortable with the wording because I believe
it makes it very, very difficult to manage the productivity in a given day or by a
weekly basis. And what caused me to begin to really think about the management
of that person or persons because it sounds like you have a separate really kind of
property management person, so really we are dealing with one that already has
his or her responsibility and now in addition, there would be a staff person just for
that. And what caused me to begin to examine it a little bit more critically was
the criticism that that person went out and chased cattle. And I think the context
of that I found to be very distasteful because that was a huge emergency, and
animals perished despite what everybody tried to do to try and avert it. So I don't
think it is... it doesn't help me feel good about a situation like that when humane
care of people and animals should be forthright regardless of our job descriptions.
So I tend to agree with you that it is vague from a management standpoint and I
think that needs to be cleaned up and that is my opinion. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Zelko
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: I also agree with Commissioner Bergin. I am not
comfortable putting this language into the Charter. I mean one for emergencies. I
think that takes precedence over everything else. And I just feel much more
comfortable with the original CA -9, Draft 3 where it gives you some flexibility
and especially in the County where I see so many folks having to do many
Page 51
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
different jobs in their role. I think that has... that is to be expected of employees
in this day and age and I think that if you are efficient, you can get it done.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: You mentioned HRS, that they... but don't they have the say over
even the Charter? State law would prevail, correct?
MS. SAKO: I will yield to our Corporation Counsel.
CHR. ADAMS: Is that a question for Mr. Yoshimoto?
MS. RICE: Yes please. In the case of an emergency, wouldn't... where it states
that all hands on deck under State law, wouldn't that override anything that the
County had that was in... not... or in conflict? Say...
MR. YOSHIMOTO: That would depend upon the context I guess of what
happens. Like for instance, if there is an emergency proclamation that mandates
certain things, of course you know, that proclamation ...
MS. RICE: Then that's...
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yeah, that would. In terms of the statute and how it is
applicable to... I would, I would recommend that our County provisions be
consistent with the State provisions. I would...
MS. RICE: Okay. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Bergin, did you have anything else?
MR. BERGIN: No, I just forgot the light. I am sorry.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion on the amendment that has been placed
before us? I'll make one comment. I am... regardless of the discussion about...
thank you very much Director Sako. Regardless of the discussion about the one
full-time and dedicated only, the sentence that adds a discussion about County
Code into the Charter, I have difficulty with. The Charter is on top of the Code
and so reference to things that would be in the Code, that doesn't make any sense
to me. So, anyway... alright, seeing no other discussion, let's have a roll call
vote, Mr. Henricks on the amendment please.
MR. HENRICKS: So this is on the amendment in 24.104, Mr. Bergin (no), Ms.
Galimba (no), Mr. Hamano (no), Mr. Hopkins, Ms. Leithead-Todd, Ms. Rice
(yes), Mr. Roehrig (no), Ms. Saquing (no), Ms. Springer (no), Ms. Zelko-
Schlueter (no), Chair Adams (no).
Page 52
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: Chair Adams you have one vote in favor.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. The motion fails to pass.
Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -9, Draft 3, failed by the following roll call vote:
To Amend
CA -9, Draft 3 Ayes: Commissioner Rice —1
(Failed): Noes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Roehrig, Saquing, Springer,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 8
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins and Todd — 2
Excused: None.
Vote on Motion
To Approve
CA -9, Draft 3
(Approved):
CHR. ADAMS: So moving back then to the motion that we have to approve on
second and final reading CA -9, Draft 3, are there any additional items for
discussion on that particular motion? Seeing none, all in favor of the motion to
approve on second and final reading, CA -9, Draft 3, please signify by saying aye
(aye), any opposed?
Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners Hopkins and Todd excused.
The motion to pass CA -9, Draft 3 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 9
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins and Todd — 2
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. I note for the record that Commissioner Roehrig has
had to leave.
Alright so, let's move then back to item number one in New Business. Is there...
alright. What we are doing now for the Commissioners that may be confused, is
that we took proposals 26, 18, and 9 out of order, and so now... and that was
without objection, and so now we are now moving back to regular order in New
Business and Item No. 1 is CA -1, Draft 3, and so I would enter... I would actually
ask Commissioner Zelko to take the Chair on this particular provision.
Page 53
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Adams relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter.
Vote on Motion
To Approve
CA -1, Draft 3
(Approved):
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay thank you. Item No. 1,
transmitting Charter Amendment No. 1, Draft 3, second and final reading,
Proposal to amend various sections of the Charter to rephrase language related to
district residency requirements, as submitted by Chair Adams, I would entertain a
motion to pass Charter Amendment 1, Draft 3.
CHR. ADAMS: I would so move.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. With Chair Adams
making the motion and a second by Commissioner Galimba, discussion? Chair
Adams?
CHR. ADAMS: I would encourage my fellow commissioners to vote aye on this
motion.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further discussion? Okay, we
can take a voice vote on this. All in favor of passing CA -1, Draft 3 on second and
final reading please signify by saying aye (aye), anyone opposed? Motion passes
unanimously with Commissioners Hopkins and Todd excused.
MR. HENRICKS: Commissioner Roehrig as well.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Oh and... oh and Commissioner
Roehrig.
The motion to pass CA -1, Draft 3 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
MR. HENRICKS: He probably wants you to continue with Item 2.
Page 54
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Vote on Motion
To Approve
CA -2, Draft 2
(Approved):
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Oh sorry. Okay, moving on to Item 2,
Charter Amendment 2, Draft 2, for second and final reading, Proposal to amend
Section 3-7 to provide that the County Council hold an equal number of its
regular meetings in East and West Hawai`i, as submitted by Chair Adams. I
would entertain a motion to pass Charter Amendment 2, Draft 2 on second and
final reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moved by Chair Adams, seconded by
Commissioner Saquing. Any discussion?
CHR. ADAMS: I would encourage my fellow Commissioners to vote aye on this
motion.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Alright. We will take a voice vote on
this. All in favor of passing CA- 2, Draft 2 on second and final reading please
signify by saying aye (aye), anyone opposed? Motion passes unanimously with
Commissioners Todd, Roehrig, and Hopkins excused.
The motion to pass CA -2, Draft 2 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
the following roll call vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter relinquished the chair back to
Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Reclaiming my Chair. Moving to Item No. 3, CA -4, Draft 2, I
would entertain a motion to approve on second and final reading, CA -4, Draft 2, a
Proposal to amend Section 6-8.3 relating to the powers, duties, and functions of
the Director of the Department of Research and Development as submitted by
Commissioner Galimba.
It has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner
Bergin. Discussion?
Page 55
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Vote on Motion
To Approve
CA -4, Draft 2
(Approved):
MS. GALIMBA: Please vote for CA -4, Draft 2.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? Seeing none, all in favor of the motion
please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? Motion passes unanimously
with Commissioners Todd, Hopkins, and Roehrig excused.
The motion to pass CA -4, Draft 2 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: We are not moving too fast for you are we Mr. Henricks? Keep
rolling.
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, why slow down.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Moving on to Item No. 4, I would entertain a motion to
approve on second and final reading CA -5, the Proposal to change each instance
of Legislative Auditor to County Auditor as appearing in Section 3-18, as
submitted by Commissioner Saquing.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Saquing and seconded by
Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter, to approved CA -5 on second and final reading.
Discussion?
Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: I just encourage my fellow Commissioners...
CHR. ADAMS: Please, would you please have the mic on.
MS. SAQUING: I am so sorry. Encourage my fellow Commissioners to vote aye
on this amendment.
Page 56
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Is there any other discussion? Seeing none, all in favor of the
motion to approve on second and final reading, CA -5, please signify by saying
aye (aye), any opposed? Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners
Hopkins, Todd, and Roehrig excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -5 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
To Approve CA -5 the following voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Item 5 in New Business, I would entertain a
motion to approve on second and final reading, CA -6, a Proposal to authorize the
Police Commission the authority to discipline the Chief of Police, Section 7-2.3
and the Fire Commission the authority to discipline the Fire Chief, Section 7-4.3,
as submitted by Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: So moved.
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Saquing and seconded by
Commissioner Galimba. Discussion? Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: I encourage my fellow Commissioners to vote for this please.
CHR. ADAMS: I note that we did receive communication from the Fire Chief
having to do specifically with this Section, and if I could ask Commissioner
Saquing, in your preparation of this, did you note anywhere where the Mayor had
the authority to discipline the Fire Chief?
MS. SAQUING: No actually I was basing the amendment on what was testified
when we were going through the various departments.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Seeing no other
discussion, all in favor of the motion to pass on second and final reading, CA -6,
please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? Motion passes unanimously
with Commissioners Hopkins, Todd, and Roehrig excused.
Page 57
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -6 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
To Approve CA -6 the following voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Item No. 6 in New Business, CA... I would
entertain a motion to approve on second and final reading CA -8, Draft 2, which is
a Proposal to amend Section 3-2, to provide that the terms of Council members be
changed from four consecutive two-year terms to two consecutive four-year
terms, as submitted by Commissioner Rice. I would entertain a motion. Okay,
would you like to...
MS. RICE: I move that... yes.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. It has been moved by Commissioner Rice and seconded
by Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter, that we approve CA -8, Draft 2 on second and
final reading. Discussion?
Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Yes. As you are well aware, excuse me, we have had quite a bit of
public testimony both verbal and in the written in the newspaper against this, and
I just want to mention some of the things that the public brought up which are
legitimate complaints. One seems to be the lack of engagement by the Council
members in their districts after election, and the public likes the idea of the
election every two years because then the Council people are required to get out
and talk to their constituents in their districts. That seems too bad that... whether
it is true or not, I cannot say, but it certainly is the public perception that they are
not getting the proper attention from their Council members and the only way that
they can do that is have an election every two years. And then there has been
some bad behavior as outlined rather graphically by Ms. Siracusa in Puna, and I
think some of that may be rectified by CA -12 that Commissioner Leithead-Todd
has put in the hopper. Where when a Council person is not behaving well, that
they are suspended. So that could to some extent counteract that. Now in my...
so those are the... seem to be the main complaints. The pros, the good side of it
Page 58
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
and I am an advocate obviously of the four years, is that at the present time the
taxpayer is subsidizing the Council campaigning in the second year because there
is no way that they can campaign and do... present their... do their job at the
Council with the enthusiasm and time constraints that they need to have in the
campaigning arena. So I do believe that we are not getting our full money's
worth on that. And there are some very critical issues to address in the future and
I think that having a four-year time span in which the Council can focus on those
issues, such as the zoning code review which I believe Commissioner Leithead-
Todd said hadn't been looked at for 25 years. That seems like an awful long time,
and many, many things have changed. Sea level rise, the County infrastructure,
plus their normal workload, and then all the unexpected. So for those reasons, I
think that the four year would be a better time span for the Council in doing all
this work. However, the public procedure, the public hearings, and the testimony
we have had here, and in the newspaper have all been negative except for a couple
of people. So I will be voting for it, but it is a controversial issue and I will let the
Commissioners each make up his or her own mind.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Rice.
Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: I was with Sally on this ad hoc committee and I have these
observations. I think a citizen has a certain responsibility that if they want to
interface with their representative, go see him or her. If I had to wait around
every two years or four years for them to come see me, the crisis would have
passed, or it would have imploded into a public array. Here's the deal, I may
have been lucky, we may have been lucky in Waimea that access to the people
that are elected is so easy and they are... it has been that way all the way back in
the days of Moon Sameshima, Kalani Schutte and I can go all the way down the
line. They are there, so that has never been an issue for me. On the other hand, I
try to look at what life would be like as a Council person and I believe that I
would probably enter the priesthood before I would agree to do that. And the
reason being that you give up so much of your personal life and your privacy and
then you are given a two year challenge to achieve your initiatives which is really
hard to do even in private business, let alone government. And to that extent I
would know that a four-year term for I would say the present Council people and
they agree to... their style of working together and achieving things, we would get
a lot more bang for our buck by giving them time to get it done and not be
distracted by running for office. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: I agree with what Commissioner Rice and
Commissioner Bergin have said. To me, I really expect the folks we vote into
office to be able to make tough decisions and tough votes and I just think if you
have to think about getting voted in, it will weigh on you. And I also... to the
Page 59
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
point about private organizations, to me, a leader to make really big impact, really
positive, big impact, you need more than two years. And for that reason, I am
going to vote in favor of this motion.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Rice did you have anything else that
you wanted to add?
MS. RICE: Oh, no.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Not seeing any other items, let me just make a couple of
comments on this. I appreciate the work that the ad hoc committee did on this as
well as the work that we have done as a Commission in coming up with some
amendments to allow this to be a second draft. I would indicate that I intend to
vote aye on this particular item. One I think that we have a strong Mayor, strong
Council arrangement as a part of the Charter. I think that this helps the Council
be a partner with the Mayor. Now I understand that if you are a member of the
Administration that's not always happy, but I also know that we are not adding
the amount of total time that someone can be... this is eight years assuming a
vote, and I also think that one of the concerns is that we will get these potential
cliques or the idea that perhaps the Council could get stagnant, but the fact is we
are still having elections every two years with the staggered set, that is set up in
the Charter amendment. So I think all of those are helpful in addition to the
potential more professionalism that we may see from the folks that are elected,
and although I know that it has... that the County has, the voters in the County
have gone back and forth on this a few times, I think that the time is right for the
voters to have the opportunity to consider this issue once again. Thanks.
MS. RICE: Comment, one thing that I don't think they are aware of because it
wasn't in existence before, is the amendment that we are going to be considering
in a few minutes, that does address bad behavior on the Council and that was
needed and it is something new. It may help to make the public feel more
confident in having a four-year election. The other thing is perhaps that during
the period before the election in 2020, the League of Women Voters could be
helpful in educating the public a little bit better about the advantages of a four-
year term.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Seeing no other items for discussion, I would ask
that we take a roll call vote on this particular motion. Again, the motion is to
approve on second and final reading, CA -8, Draft 2. Mr. Henricks.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin (yes), Ms. Galimba (no), Mr. Hamano (yes), Mr.
Hopkins, Ms. Leithead-Todd, Ms. Rice (yes), Mr. Roehrig, Ms. Saquing (yes),
Ms. Springer (yes), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (yes), Chair Adams (yes).
Chair Adams you have seven votes in favor, seven vote in favor, excuse me.
Page 60
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Vote on Motion
To Approve
CA -8, Draft 2
(Approved):
CHR. ADAMS: The motion passes seven to one, with the, well, we have already
identified who the one was. With the following Commissioners excused,
Commissioners Roehrig, Hopkins, and Todd.
The motion to pass CA -8, Draft 2 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
the following roll call vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamano, Rice,
Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter, and
Chair Adams — 7
Noes: Commissioner Galimba —1
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Item No. 8 under New Business, I would entertain
a motion to approve on second and final reading, CA -12, Proposal to amend
Section 3-7 by adding disciplinary measures for County members... for Council
members who behave in a disorderly or contemptuous manner at Council
meetings, or when a Council member fails to attend three or more regular
meetings of the Council without being excused by the Council Chair, as submitted
by Commissioner Leithead-Todd. Is there a motion?
MR. BERGIN: So moved.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? It has been moved by Commissioner Bergin
and seconded by Commissioner Galimba to pass CA -12 on second and final
reading. Any discussion? Alright, seeing none, all in favor of the motion to pass
CA -12 on second and final reading please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any
opposed? Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners Hopkins, Todd, and
Roehrig excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -12 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
To Approve CA -12 the following voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
Page 61
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: I would ask Commissioner Zelko to take on Chair for the next
item, the next two items please.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Adams relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. Thank you Chair Adams. Item
No. 9, Transmits CA -14 on second and final reading, Proposal to amend Section
6-4.3 and 6-4.4 to update language for the qualifications and the powers, duties,
and functions of the Director of Information Technology, as submitted by Chair
Adams. I would entertain a motion to approve CA -14 on second and final
reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moved by Chair Adams. Seconded
by Galimba. Discussion?
CHR. ADAMS: I would encourage my fellow Commissioners to vote aye on this
particular amendment.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. We will take a voice vote on
this. All those in favor of approving CA -14 on second and final reading please
signify by saying "aye" (aye), anyone opposed? Okay, motion passes eight zero,
with Commissioners Roehrig, Hopkins, and Todd excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -14 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
To Approve CA -14 the following voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: And moving on to Item No. 10,
Transmitting CA -15 on second and final reading, Proposal to amend Section 6-
4.4, powers, duties, and functions of the Director of Information Technology to
reflect the current status of operations as submitted by Chair Adams. I would
entertain a motion to approve CA -15 on second and final reading.
Page 62
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moved by Chair Adams. Seconded
by Commissioner Rice. Discussion?
CHR. ADAMS: I again would encourage my fellow Commissioners exalted and
as wonderful as you are, to vote aye on this particular motion.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. Seeing no further discussion,
all in favor of approving CA -15 on second and final reading, please signify by
saying "aye" (aye), anyone opposed? Motion passes eight, zero with
Commissioners Roehrig, Todd, and Hopkins excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -15 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
To Approve CA -15 the following voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter relinquished the chair back to
Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter. Reclaiming my
Chair. Moving on to Item No. 11 in New Business, I would entertain a motion to
pass on second and final... approve on second and final reading, CA -17, a
Proposal to add a new Section to Article X, Financial Procedures to Establish a
Disaster and Emergency Fund, as submitted by Commissioner Leithead-Todd. Is
there a motion?
It has been moved by Commissioner Saquing and seconded by Commissioner
Bergin to pass on second and final reading, CA -17, any discussion?
Commissioner Rice. Go ahead.
MS. RICE: I am sorry that Commissioner Leithead-Todd isn't here because I had
a couple of questions. In five on that, where it says pay for operational expenses
Page 63
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
of the County after a disaster or emergency, there is... it is open ended. Maybe it
doesn't need to have a ...
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice would you like Director Sako perhaps might
be able to answer some of your questions on this?
MS. RICE: Yeah, that would be good. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Director Sako.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the
members of the Commission.)
MS. SAKO: No problem.
CHR. ADAMS: Go ahead Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Do you have that in front of you?
MS. SAKO: The amendment?
MS. RICE: Yeah, on CA -17, if you look at five, it has they are paying for
operational expenses of the County after a disaster or emergency when the County
is unable to realize revenue at sufficient levels due to the disaster or emergency.
CHR. ADAMS: My apologies. For the purposes of the minutes, we are referring
to subsection B(5) under the amendment.
MS. RICE: Yes. Thank you. I am just wondering if there should be some kind
of a phrase in there that has a termination so that the use of those funds by the
County for operational expenses doesn't continue indefinitely.
MS. SAKO: You know in case of a disaster, I don't think we have had one where
this clause maybe would come into effect. We also have a Budget Stabilization
Fund for when our revenues don't hit our projected expectations, so there is
another mechanism we could draw on. I am looking... when I look at this
provision, I would think of it as being like a catastrophic type of situation...
MS. RICE: Right.
MS. SAKO: Where you know, operations are not, for not only the County, but
for the entire community are not you know, moving forward as planned. So, and I
don't know how long it would take to recover from that, but we do also have our
Budget Stabilization Fund that we would probably draw on first because in such a
Page 64
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
disaster that was that catastrophic, I know our costs would be significantly large
to take care of the disaster and one would hope that FEMA would be coming in as
well.
MS. RICE: Right.
MS. SAKO: But you know I think it is... this is a different kind of Section than
what is in the County Code right now and I am reading it as it would be you
know, like a catastrophic type of situation, so I think whoever is Director of
Finance at the time, would you know, look at it as you know, doing whatever they
have to do to keep the County operating. Whether it is to keep our police force or
our Fire Department and all of that up and running.
MS. RICE: Right. Yeah. No, I like the concept, I just was concerned that it
could be taken advantage of that is all. But you feel that that would not be the
case?
MS. SAKO: No. It would probably be limited to that fiscal year in which the
disaster happens most likely.
MS. RICE: And then I had one more question there in seven it says pay for
administrative expenses which shall not exceed five percent, but it doesn't say
five percent of what. I wasn't sure I could... I knew what the five percent...
MS. SAKO: I think it is similar language to what is in the County Code right now
and it, yes, it may not be perfectly clear but it is not a clause we actually use. We
try really hard not to use it for any administrative expenses. And it could be five
percent of the fund is how we have interpreted it to date.
MS. RICE: Five percent of what fund?
MS. SAKO: Of this disaster fund. We currently have a Disaster and Emergency
Fund.
MS. RICE: Oh, I see. Okay. I got you. So maybe we should just put that in to be
clear.
CHR. ADAMS: I would, I would point out that B itself is monies in the Disaster
and Emergency Fund shall be utilized only for the following purposes...
MS. RICE: Yeah, okay, so that... alright. Got ya. Okay. That's fine that
answers my questions. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Are there any other questions for Director Sako?
Commissioner Bergin.
Page 65
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. BERGIN: In my opinion, the situation in Puna, is catastrophic, and also in
my personal opinion, as I viewed the interest in gathering property for all of us
and our future generations to enjoy, I couldn't help but tie that, interface that, with
the disaster fund. Personally, I would rather put away funds to support
catastrophic situations. I would put that priority ahead of acquiring property for
the sake of enjoyment that we all appreciate, we all want recreation, we want all
of that. But you know what? What is coming down in our future is not pleasant.
And I think if we... and I am going to just throw this out, purely Billy Bergin
talking, that if we are going to do two percent, I turned to Paul, and I think you
remember me whispering to you, wouldn't it be neat if it was one percent PONC,
one percent disaster. Simply because of my personal responsibility to what can
happen in catastrophic situations. That is just my opinion.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: I just want to commend you for saying that Billy because I have
the same sentiment as well. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice do you have anything else you wanted to...
MS. RICE: Oh no, sorry.
CHR. ADAMS: That's okay. Seeing no other Commissioners, I would just make
the comment that as I have looked through the Charter amendments that we have
before us, I think that this will be the one that I am most proud of us supporting,
assuming that we do. This will be an easy thing for me to talk about with
members of the community. I just think that this is us looking out and trying to
take care. We have great Charter amendments. It is not to denigrate any of those
by any means, but this I think is us doing our job, so okay. Having said that, all in
favor of the motion to approve on second and final reading, CA -18, Draft 2, I am
sorry, my mistake. CA -17, please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed?
Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners Hopkins, Todd, and Roehrig
excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -17 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
To Approve CA -17 the following voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
Page 66
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. I would ask, I would ask Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter
to take on Items 20, 21, 22, and 23, and 24, and 25.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Adams relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you Chair Adams. Moving on
to Item No. 13, Transmitting CA -20 on second and final reading, Proposal to
amend Section 15-3, Mandatory Charter reviews to add protocol and procedures
for the Charter Commission, including the date by which the Charter Commission
must be empaneled, based on the provisions of Chapter 50 of the Hawai`i Revised
Statutes as submitted by Chair Adams. I would entertain a motion to approve
CA -20 on second and final reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moved by Chair Adams. Seconded
by Commissioner Galimba. Discussion?
CHR. ADAMS: Yes thank you Vice -Chair Zelko-Schlueter, I would just make
the point that this is... the idea of this is to just set in a little bit more foundational
language, how the Charter Commission is supposed to operate and yes, it is
aligned with the statute, but given my particular view of the statute, the statute is
not necessarily clear in all of the Sections, whether or not County Charter
Commissions are supposed to follow them.
We have been doing so, but we have been doing so as a matter of tradition. In
some cases, and not in all cases. So this would actually provide some structure to
the Charter Commission's work. And so I would encourage my fellow
Commissioners to vote aye on this motion.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Bergin. Oh, that's
okay.
MR. HENRICKS: Acting Chair, may I please, before we proceed to the vote, I
would note that there is a proposed amendment in paragraph one to remove the
language regarding not belonging to more than a majority of whom shall belong
to the same political party, and we do have that in a future amendment proposed
by Ms. Galimba that handles that, and I know I had talked to Chair Adams about
retaining this language, so that would only be in one amendment, so this was I
believe my error when printing this, so I would ask the Commission if it would
consider suspending its rules. Well first of all, making an amendment to retain
the language that states no more than a majority of whom shall belong to the same
Page 67
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
political party, again, only for the purposes of keeping that exclusive to the other
proposal that Ms. Galimba has submitted for the Commission's consideration.
CHR. ADAMS: So Vice Chair Zelko, may I make a comment?
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: If it is okay, assuming that this particular motion is approved,
and I will be... I would be in the... voting for, I would like us to actually get
through the voting that would support that particular motion, reconsider this one,
and then that allows us to... and then we can amend that one and...
MR. HENRICKS: Would you like to just lay this on the table for now?
CHR. ADAMS: That might be probably the easy way to do that.
MR. HENRICKS: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: If that's okay.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: A question. Assuming that we pass the other motion, then when this
goes to the public, will it show that deletion, that cross out, or will it show...?
MR. HENRICKS: On this amendment?
MS. RICE: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: No. So what you want to do in these situations, is when you
are asking two different questions to the public, to keep those things separate. To
allow them to decide yes to both, no to both, or one or the other. So if we keep
this in here, we are embedding it as part of this proposal, so if by chance you
know, Ms. Galimba's proposal goes to the ballot and people vote no, but they
vote yes to this one, they would have been approving half of her amendment, so
we want to get...I think it is in the best interest to get it out of...
MS. RICE: Oh, I got it. Yeah. I see.
MR. HENRICKS: This one. Maybe...
MS. RICE: Thanks.
MR. HENRICKS: And may I Chair? Regardless of the vote on Ms. Galimba's
and maybe we could just do that now because it is probably better either way to
get it out of this amendment. So perhaps we don't need to know the vote on...
Page 68
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
because this is a housekeeping vote, not a disapproval or approval of Ms.
Galimba's proposal. Either way going forward it shouldn't be included in this in
my opinion.
CHR. ADAMS: Oh. I am allowed to make an amendment to my own motion I
believe right?
MR. HENRICKS: Absolutely.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. So... hold on, if you don't mind, Vice Chair Zelko-
Schlueter. Alright. I move to amend CA -20 by removing from the Charter
Amendment, the phrase in Section 15-3, No more than a majority of whom shall
belong to the same political party comma.
MR. HENRICKS: To be clear, you are not removing the phrase, you are actually
removing the strikethrough to keep the phrase.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: I was working on that.
MR. HENRICKS: We are only four and a half hours in.
CHR. ADAMS: Yeah. So my motion would require a second.
UNNAMED COMMISSIONER: Second
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any discussion?
MR. HENRICKS: Before you take the vote, I would recommend a suspension of
the rules just so that we play it on the safe side...that this wouldn't need to be
held over for another reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So for the purposes of the Commission, for the other
Commissioners, understand that in our rules, under Section X, subsection VI, that
speaks to the proposed amendments to the Charter, VI reads "Any proposal
passed on first reading and so included in the First Reading Report, shall be
reviewed by the Commission on its merit paying attention to the manner in which
each proposal relates to the Charter as a whole. This shall be considered the
second and final reading of a proposal. If a proposal substantively amended at
this step, the proposal shall be held over until the next meeting for further
consideration." That last sentence in that phrase would be the rules that would be
suspended. And so I already have an amendment. I have a motion, I have an
Page 69
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
amendment, and so I would move that subsection VI of Section X, Proposed
Amendments to the Charter, be suspended for the purposes of this amendment.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Is there a second?
MS. RICE: Second.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay, seconded by Commissioner
Rice. Any discussion or not debatable? Not debatable, okay. You don't get a
chance to discuss... So we are in the amendment.
MR. HENRICKS: You're just, the vote right now if favorable, would allow for
the vote on the amendment. Well excuse me, it would...
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: On the motion?
MR. HENRICKS: Mean that if approved, we don't have to have another meeting
to consider this again.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Right. Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: Essentially would allow for the amended matter to be part of
the Report to the Council, presuming that it is passed in whole.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. So is there any discussion? I
can just...
MR. HENRICKS: No, you just ask for the vote. Yeah.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. We are going to call for the
vote. Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: Correct. Correct.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Can we take a voice vote on the
matter? So all those in favor of suspending the rules, please signify by saying
"aye" (aye), any opposed? Okay, motion passes unanimously with
Commissioners Roehrig, Hopkins, and Todd excused.
Vote on Motion to The motion to suspend Charter Rule X, Subsection VI to waive the holdover until
Suspend Rule the next meeting for further consideration was carried by the following
(Approved): voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Page 70
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd — 3
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Vice Chair Zelko. Again, the motion is to remove
the strike out from that phrase essentially including it back in to 15-3, which
would be part of the Charter Amendment, CA -20. I would encourage an aye vote
on this motion.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further discussion? Okay. We
will take a voice vote on this. All those in favor of the amendment, please signify
by saying "aye" (aye), anyone opposed? Motion passes unanimously with
Commissioners Roehrig, Todd, and Hopkins excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -20 was carried by the following voice vote:
To Amend CA -20
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Vice Chair Zelko.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes?
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. So I would encourage my fellow Commissioners to
please vote aye on Charter Amendment, on the second and final reading on
Charter Amendment 20, as amended, for all the reasons that I stated earlier.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further discussion? All those in
favor of passing CA -20 on second and final reading, please signify by saying
"aye" (aye), anyone opposed? Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners
Roehrig, Todd, and Hopkins excused.
CHR. ADAMS: Vice Chair Zelko I would just... that was CA -20 as amended.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: As amended.
Page 71
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
The motion to pass CA -20, as amended, on Second and Final Reading was carried
by the following voice vote:
Vote on Motion
To Approve
CA -20, Draft 2
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moving on to Item No. 14,
Transmitting CA -21, on second and final reading, Proposal to amend Section 11-
5, subsection C, initiative and referendum petitions forms and sufficiency by
replacing the word "appeal" with "repeal" as a correction of terms, as submitted
by Chair Adams. I would entertain a motion to approve CA -21 on second and
final reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. Moved by Chair Adams,
seconded by Commissioner Bergin. Any discussion?
CHR. ADAMS: I would defer to Commissioner Bergin for any discussion.
MR. BERGIN: There being none.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. If there is no further
discussion, we will take a voice vote on this. All in favor of passing CA -21, on
second and final reading, please signify by saying "aye" (aye), anyone opposed?
Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners Roehrig, Todd, and Hopkins
excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -21 on Second and Final Reading was carried by the
To Approve CA -21 following voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Page 72
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd — 3
Excused: None.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moving on to Item 15, CA -22,
Transmitting CA -22 on second and final reading, I believe we had a
Communication for this one as well.
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah. Correct.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So we would start with the motion
and then go to the...
MR. HENRICKS: The main motion...
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: And then go to the...
MR. HENRICKS: Correct. Yes.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. Proposal to amend Section 12-
1.3, signatures recall of an elected official by removing the requirement that a
signer of a petition to recall an elected County official, include the last four digits
of his or her social security number, as submitted by Chair Adams. I would
entertain a motion to approve CA -22 on second and final reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moved by Chair Adams, seconded by
Commissioner Springer. And now we can go into the Communication we
received, which is Communication Number 39.2 which transmits a Proposed
Amendment to CA -22, as submitted by Chair Adams. So I believe this added in
another Section with the same language, 11.5.
CHR. ADAMS: So Vice Chair Zelko, thank you. I would move to amend CA -22
with the phrase, with the communication... information associated in the
communication in 39.2.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Is there a second? (second) Okay.
Seconded by Commissioner Galimba. Discussion?
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Vice Chair. I would indicate that the, what we are
doing again is we are removing the last four digits of the social security number
requirement from petitions and it was pointed out to me by our ever stalwart Clerk
that there was another place for us to do that.
Page 73
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, just brief background, we should have thought of this in
the first place. You have two areas in the Charter that essentially asks for the
same thing when people are working on matters where they have petitions
involved and while working on a project, our Deputy Clerk noticed that this was a
requirement and he also recalled that this was on the Commission's plate, and we
checked with our Election's Program Administrator if the circumstances were the
same and if so, should we also consider this Section, and she agreed... concurred
that yes, it would be reasonable for the Commission to also include this as part of
this proposal and she supports it.
CHR. ADAMS: Vice Chair I would move to suspend the rules to allow that this
vote would not require a holdover to the next meeting for further consideration.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Is there a second?
MS. RICE: Second.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay, seconded by Commissioner
Rice. So, can we take a voice vote on that?
MR. HENRICKS: Yes please.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: We are going to take a voice vote on
suspending the rules. All those in favor please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any
opposed? Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners Roehrig, Todd, and
Hopkins excused.
Vote on Motion to The motion to suspend Charter Rule X, Subsection VI to waive the holdover until
Suspend Rule the next meeting for further consideration was carried by the following
(Approved): voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Vice Chair I would encourage my fellow Commissioners to vote
"aye" on the amendment that adds in Section 11-5 out of Article XI to the original
amend... original Charter Amendment.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further discussion? Okay, we
will take a voice vote on the amendment. All those in favor of the amendment to
Page 74
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CA -22, please signify by saying "aye" (aye), anyone opposed? Motion passes
unanimously with Commissioners Roehrig, Todd, and Hopkins excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -22 was carried by the following voice vote:
To Amend CA -22
(Approved):
Vote on Motion
To Approve
CA -22, Draft 2
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Now we are back in the original
motion.
CHR. ADAMS: So I would encourage my fellow Commissioners to vote aye on
the second and final reading, the motion to approve on second and final reading,
CA -22 as amended.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Is there a second?
CHR. ADAMS: It was already...
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Oh, that's right. Okay. So if there is
no further discussion, we will take a voice vote on approving CA -22, as amended,
for second and final reading. All those in favor please signify by saying "aye"
(aye), anyone opposed? Okay, motion passes unanimously with Commissioners
Roehrig, Hopkins, and Todd excused.
The motion to pass CA -22, as amended, on Second and Final Reading was carried
by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
Page 75
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So moving on to Item 16,
Transmitting CA -23 for second and final reading, Proposal to amend Section 6-
5.2 Appointment and removal of Corporation Counsel, by adding that an attorney
must be licensed to practice law for at least five years and have at least three years
of experience in an administrative capacity before being eligible for appointment
as the Corporation Counsel, as submitted by Chair Adams. I would entertain a
motion to approve CA -23, on second and final reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moved by Chair Adams, seconded by
Commissioner Galimba. Any discussion?
CHR. ADAMS: I would encourage my fellow Commissioners to vote aye on this.
We have had quite a bit of discussion about qualifications and this is an attempt to
include that in a requirement for a profession, including the management
experience.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you Chair Adams.
Commissioner Hamano.
MR. HAMANO: Yes, I have a question for the Corporation Counsel, J. You
know, what in your opinion is the meaning of this language here that says three
years of experience in a quote, unquote, "responsible administrative capacity"?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Basically I read that as meaning that the person in question
would have had some experience in oversight of other people, employees,
administratively. So like, either a supervisor or their section, something to that
affect.
MR. HAMANO: I mean...
MR. YOSHIMOTO: So like... go ahead.
MR. HAMANO: Doesn't that imply sort of like some person within Corporation
Counsel to be supervising others.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yeah, so something like that but it could be someone in
private practice if they are supervising... assuming they are supervising their
associates, or legal techs, you know something to that affect. I think... of course
that's... this is subject to you know, the confirmation by the Council, so the
Council would be able to interpret that in whatever way you know, the question
presents. In other words if you come in and say that, hypothetically, person A
says I have worked as a practicing attorney for five years and have had experience
Page 76
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
in supervising people in our office, that is again subject to the discretion of the
Council. But in my opinion, that would satisfy that.
MR. HAMANO: So like for example, yourself, you know, what could you claim
for yourself to be somebody that had supervised ... years of experience in a
responsible administrative capacity, can you think of something for yourself?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Oh I wouldn't want to put myself in that position so...
MR. HENRICKS: I could, but that's not...
MR. HAMANO: Yeah because that is what I am wondering here. You know I
am you know, I guess this must have passed by me here, but I am concerned
about this amendment as restricting you know, the ability of the Mayor to appoint
some appropriate person to be Corp Counsel (Corporation Counsel). I mean I
would imagine you know, regardless of what... the fact that you have you know,
at least some standard there of five years, I cannot imagine that the Mayor would
appoint somebody, you know, with less than that kind of experience.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Right.
MR. HAMANO: I mean but, this issue about the responsible administrative
capacity, that you know, puts into play some very... to me, ambiguous terms as to
what that means for one thing, and second thing is, limiting the Mayor's ability to
appoint some appropriate person. Because I can imagine there you know, being
in the profession, I can imagine there would be somebody you know, that would
be like highly experienced, but never really had some legitimate, like for example,
you know, he would not have worked in like the government, and therefore had
no opportunity to quote, unquote, "supervise" somebody in an "administrative
capacity".
MR. YOSHIMOTO: So, that is a valid point. In that scenario, say you had a
candidate or an appointee that had vast experience but was a solo practitioner that
didn't supervise anyone other than herself, then that is subject to interpretation
again, you know, by the Council right, so...
MR. HAMANO: That is kind of why I am asking like, for example, you would be
a fine person to head the Corporation Counsel, but like for yourself, what could
you imagine yourself to come within this term of being somebody with years of
experience in a responsible administrative capacity.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: So hypothetically, someone else if they worked, like you
said, for government, I mean they would probably have legal technicians that they
supervise, or something to that affect so there would be... you know, the pool
would be... I think it would be a fairly large pool, but the hypothetical that you
present, I think is a valid one because that is entirely possible, where you could
Page 77
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
have someone very responsi... very well-qualified, but did not meet that
particular requirement.
MS. GALIMBA: Oh yeah, sorry. I mean I think a responsible administrative
capacity is vague enough that it could be interpreted, I mean if you are a solo
practitioner, you are responsible for your practice, you are administering your
practice, you are probably working with people. It doesn't necessarily mean that
they have to be your employees, it could be, you know a contract or something
where they are not right with you, but you are still administering people. I think it
is a worthy thing to have in there. To have that kind of experience of some sort, I
mean it is flexible. I am just saying.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: I was going to add as well, I think that
is actually, when you look at private companies, when they look for people in
management roles, you know, three years, five years, is actually quite low. It
would actually be quite low and I think the Corporation Counsel, a large part of
their job is administrative.
Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: So what was I thinking when I wrote this? I actually looked for
some other language, right. Supervisory, leadership, I mean the key here is that in
all of these amendments where I have looked at qualifications for department
heads largely, it has been how do you identify, how do you identify a qualification
that says... and you gots to be a leader too. And so the term responsible
administrative capacity is about as open ended, so yes, it is vague? It is, does it
give the Mayor a lot of wiggle room in terms of identifying somebody to be that?
I believe it does. I don't think it narrows it. I think it probably is vague. But I
also think that it is important that for any department head in the County, that they
have some experience in... with management or leadership, or supervisory. And
so yes, we could have the greatest lawyer in the world, but that doesn't
necessarily mean that is who you want to be your Corporation Counsel, right.
Because who you also would want to have be your Corporation Counsel is
somebody that has, I mean Corporation Counsel is a large stable of lawyers right,
and so, management responsibility, management capacity is important in that.
And that is the purpose of that phrasing, at least when I wrote it.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Hamano.
MR. HAMANO: Oh, I am sorry.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: That's okay. Any further discussion
on this? Maybe we will take a roll call vote on this one.
Page 78
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to pass CA -23 on second and final reading, Mr.
Bergin (aye), Ms. Galimba (aye), Mr. Hamano (no), Mr. Hopkins, Ms. Leithead-
Todd, Ms. Rice (aye), Mr. Roehrig, Ms. Saquing (aye), Ms. Springer (aye), Chair
Adams (aye), Acting -Chair, Zelko-Schlueter (yes).
Acting -Chair you have seven votes in favor, Mr. Hamano voting no, and three
absent.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Motion passes.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -23 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
To Approve CA -23 the following roll call vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Rice,
Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter, and
Chair Adams — 7
Noes: Commissioner Hamano —1
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moving on to Item 17, Transmitting
CA -24, Draft 2, second and final reading, Proposal to amend Section 7-4.2
through 7-4.4, and Section 7-4.6, all relating to the powers, duties, and functions
of the Fire Chief, and the Fire Commission, by amending the prerequisites for
eligibility to be appointed as the Fire Chief and to add Water Safety to the duties
and functions of the Hawai`i Fire Department, as recognition of current practices,
as submitted by Chair Adams.
I would entertain a motion to approve CA -24, Draft 2, on second and final
reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moved by Chair Adams. Seconded
by Commissioner Saquing. Discussion?
CHR. ADAMS: I think we have gone through this particular Charter Amendment
quite a bit in the conversations that we have had previously, so I would encourage
my fellow Commissioners to support this motion.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Bergin.
Page 79
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Vote on Motion
To Approve
CA -24, Draft 2
(Approved):
MR. BERGIN: And I may have been... I have been absent a couple of meetings,
but I now understand that formerly lifeguards would fall under the Fire
Department.
MR. HENRICKS: My understanding is that they still do. Or excuse me, Parks
and Recreation. Water Safety Officers... did you hear Ms. Sako? For the record,
Director Sako noted that Water Safety Officers that patrol beaches, fall under the
Fire Department. Recreational pools fall under the Department of Parks and
Recreation for that... those services. You're welcome.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further discussion? Seeing no
further discussion, we will take a voice vote on this. All those in favor of the
motion to pass CA -24, Draft 2, on second and final reading, please signify by
saying "aye" (aye), anyone opposed? Alright, motion passes unanimously with
Commissioners Roehrig, Todd, and Hopkins excused.
The motion to pass CA -24, Draft 2 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moving on to Item 18, CA -25,
Transmitting CA -25 on second and final reading, Proposal to amend Section 6-7.5
and repeal Section 6-7.6, relating to the duties, and functions of the Windward
and Leeward Planning Commissions, to delete transitional provisions utilized
during the move from a single Planning Commission to a Leeward Planning
Commission and a Windward Planning Commission, as submitted by Chair
Adams.
I would entertain a motion to approve CA -25, on second and final reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moved by Chair Adams, seconded by
Commissioner Bergin. Any discussion?
Page 80
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter, this is... these are
transitional items that the Planning Commissions asked us to essentially clean up
their area and so that is what this does.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further discussion? Seeing none,
we will take a voice vote, all those in favor of the motion to pass CA -25, on
second and final reading, please signify by saying "aye" (aye), anyone opposed?
Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners Roehrig, Todd, and Hopkins
excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -25 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
To Approve CA -25 the following voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter relinquished the chair back to
Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Reclaiming my Chair. Fine job Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter.
Moving on to... first of all, everybody we are good? We have got three more of
these things. Doing okay? Alrighty.
Moving on to Item 20, I would entertain a motion to approve on second and final
reading, CA -28, a Proposal to amend Section 13-4, Boards and commissions, and
Section 15-3, Mandatory Charter review, to remove language providing that
membership of boards and commissions may not contain more than a bare
majority of persons belonging to the same political party, as submitted by
Commissioner Galimba.
Do I have a motion?
It has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner
Zelko-Schlueter. Discussion?
MS. GALIMBA: So again, please vote for gosh, CA -28, and I apologize to Chair
Adams for taking some of his CA -20.
Page 81
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Galimba. Noted. Any other
discussion?
All in favor of the motion to approve on second and final reading, CA -28, please
signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? Motion passes unanimously with
Commissioners Hopkins, Todd, and Roehrig excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -28 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
To Approve CA -28 the following voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Item 21 in New Business, I would entertain a
motion to approve on second and final reading, CA -29, Draft 2, a Proposal to
amend Section 10-6, Capital budget and capital programs scope, Council action,
by adding language providing that prioritization of capital improvements is to be
based on criteria in alignment with the County General Plan, County Community
Development Plans, emergency expenditures, and other pertinent functional
plans, as submitted by Commissioner Galimba. Do I have a motion?
MS. GALIMBA: So moved.
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by
Commissioner Saquing, to approve CA -29, Draft 2, on second and final reading.
Discussion?
MS. GALIMBA: Just would like to ask Commissioners to vote for CA -29, Draft
2, so we can get out of here.
CHR. ADAMS: I would point out for the record that that was a joke. Any other
discussion? Alright I will take a voice vote. All in favor of approving the motion
to... let me try that again, all in favor of the motion to approve CA -29, Draft 2, on
second and final reading, please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed?
Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners Hopkins, Todd, and Roehrig
excused.
Page 82
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
Vote on Motion
To Approve
CA -29, Draft 2
(Approved):
The motion to pass CA -29, Draft 2 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter, if you wouldn't mind taking
this.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Adams relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: No problem. Item 22, Transmitting
CA -30 for second and final reading, Proposal to amend Section 14-5, Board of
Ethics, by adding language providing that the Board of Ethics may impose civil
fines for violations of the Code of Ethics, as prescribed by ordinance of the
County Council, that the board may transmit formal opinions regarding potential
violations of the Code of Ethics to the appropriate appointing authority, and
clarifying that the board's rules of procedure shall have the force and effect of
law, as submitted by Chair Adams.
I would entertain a motion to approve CA -30 on second and final reading.
CHR. ADAMS: So moved.
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Moved by Chair Adams, seconded by
Commissioner Galimba. Discussion?
CHR. ADAMS: Yes, thank you Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter. I would just point
out for Commissioner Bergin's benefit since he wasn't able to be here when we
had these conversations, this is essentially designed to make sure that the rules of
procedure have the force and effect of law. That was something that the Board of
Ethics found important, and also the board's ability to impose civil fines for the
violations of the Code of Ethics as prescribed by ordinance. There is an
ordinance that does that. This establishes maybe some teeth if you will, in the
Charter for the Board of Ethics to be able to impose those civil fines as the
Council and as the board find fit. So I would encourage my fellow
Commissioners to support CA -30, on second and final reading.
Page 83
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
ACTING CHAIR ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any further discussion? Okay.
Seeing none, we will take a voice vote. All those in favor of passing CA -30 on
second and final reading, please signify by saying "aye" (aye), anyone opposed?
Motion passes unanimously with Commissioners Roehrig, Todd, and Hopkins
excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -30 on Second and Final Reading was carried by
To Approve CA -30 the following voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter relinquished the chair back to
Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter. I understand that we are
likely close to the end here, but I am cognizant that it has been a while since we
recessed and how does everybody feel? Okay, let's keep rolling.
MR. HENRICKS: Chair Adams, can I make a suggestion?
CHR. ADAMS: You may.
MR. HENRICKS: Two birds, one stone...
CHR. ADAMS: Two birds with one stone...
MR. HENRICKS: I understand that you guys need a little time to look at the
Executive Session minutes because you haven't seen them yet, prior to approving
them. Perhaps a recess to do so, rather than going into Executive Session, would
accomplish those tasks and would also potentially break the cycle of needing
Executive Sessions to review Executive Session minutes.
CHR. ADAMS: I would just ask our Counsel if that is a reasonable use of a
recess?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yes.
Page 84
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: So long as there is no discussion during the recess as you
are reviewing the minutes.
MR. HENRICKS: Right. If we come out of recess, and there is questions about
the minutes, then we would entertain a motion to go into Executive Session and
only then.
CHR. ADAMS: That's right. So let's take a brief recess. If you happen to see
some Executive Session minutes in front of you, please read in silence.
RECESS: At 1:48 p.m., the Chair called for a recess to go into Executive Session.
RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 1:54 p.m.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright, so as we have continued on and I believe everybody has
had an opportunity to have a good recess, calling the meeting back into open
session. I would entertain a motion to approve the Executive Session minutes
from May 10, 2019, as they were reviewed.
It has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner
Zelko-Schlueter. Is there any discussion? Seeing no discussion, all in favor of
the motion, please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? Motion passes
unanimously with Commissioners Hopkins, Todd, and Roehrig excused. Not
seeing any other purpose to move into Executive Session, given that we did move
into Executive Session though during the day, we will have minutes next time.
Vote on Motion
To Approve Executive
Session Minutes:
(Approved)
Commissioner Galimba moved to approve the Executive Session minutes
of May 10, 2019. Seconded by Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter and
carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -3
Excused: None.
Page 85
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
AGENDA ITEMS
FOR NEXT
REGULARLY
SCHEDULED
MEETING:
The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
agenda items for next regularly scheduled meeting
CHR. ADAMS: Anyway, alright, so the next item here is Agenda Items for the
Next Regularly Scheduled Meeting, any suggestions from Commissioners on
future agenda items? Why yes, I do, alright, so let's just have a chat briefly.
We will talk about the announcement of the next meeting when we get to
Announcements, but we know that we are planning on the next meeting being
June 21st which is two weeks from today. Right now we have it at 9:30 a.m., we
will talk about the idea of changing that time at a later moment and it will be in
Kona, Kailua-Kona. What we should have at that time is something that looks
similar to what they had in 2010, which will be this nice little hefty piece of
paper, packet, and it will have the Commission's activities, findings, and
recommendations as required by HRS. And then, and so... what is happening is
that I have been putting... piecing together over the last month or so, some of the
activities and findings, and then the recommendations are what we did today. So
part of what has to happen is... included in that is the... I believe, let me go back
into that... there is a piece of this that talks about, it is a small portion of this, that
talks about what the proposal actually is, so each proposal will have this small,
little paragraph to it, and then the actual amendment itself, in addition to our
activities, which has been, you know, relatively easy for me to write up.
And so then, that will be included in the Agenda that goes out to the public next
Friday I guess. So you are welcome, however you will have the responsibility of
reading it because at that time on the 21st is when we will actually review this,
make any changes that we want to make to it, or not, as the case may be, and then
we would, if everything goes well, approve said report with recommendations and
the Charter Amendment Proposals, and send that on to the Council on time. So
that's that piece. Anyway, do you...please, Commissioner Rice. I am sorry.
MS. RICE: So our job on the 21st is prior to the meeting, read through it
carefully and then if we see an edit that needs to be made, is that what we are
talking about?
CHR. ADAMS: That would be during, that would be in the moment, yeah.
MS. RICE: Of the findings of fact, and...
CHR. ADAMS: Now I would suggest...
Page 86
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: Right, to be clear, an edit to the... not to the proposals
themselves, but to the...
MS. RICE: Yeah no, I understand...
CHR. ADAMS: But to the part where I have done some of my own writing.
MS. RICE: Correct.
MR. HENRICKS: Right, right, right, it should speak for the Commission.
MS. RICE: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: That's right. Now this... that would be an amendment to the
report. So we would be amending the report. Right?
MR. HENRICKS: Right. That's okay.
CHR. ADAMS: But I think we are able to do that on that day, there's not a
suspension of rules requirement or anything like that because those refer
specifically to the proposals as I recall.
MR. HENRICKS: I agree.
MS. RICE: And that's going to Council, then that report is going to Council?
CHR. ADAMS: Then that would be... would go to Council.
MS. RICE: So once we finish on the 21st, that is ready to go to Council
essentially?
CHR. ADAMS: Yes. Correct.
MS. RICE: Okay. Got it.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: So I was going to ask if it is possible for the staff to create a
little bit of a timeline for us to look at with regard to the next steps that we are
going through. I am clear what is going to happen on the 21st and beyond that
going to the Council, but I would like to know what are our responsibilities
moving forward for the remainder of our term.
CHR. ADAMS: Yes, we will put something together for that for you.
Page 87
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: We will get it on the agenda maybe too, just so it is for
everyone.
CHR. ADAMS: So it is clear and I think it makes...
MR. HENRICKS: For the world.
CHR. ADAMS: A lot of sense to do that. Right.
MR. HENRICKS: Absolutely.
MS. SAQUING: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: I may just ask the Vice Chair to do it. No, I am just kidding. I
am kidding, obviously. The... but let me just point out that (coughs), sorry, we
will be... part of what we would do would be an expectation that at the June 21st
meeting, we would... I would indicate that there would be no July meeting, so we
would bypass the July meeting. I think I have the ability to do that on my own
cognizance. And then we would choose an August meeting date okay, and then...
and then we will talk about at the August meeting, would be where we would talk
about the ad hoc committee that would then do the business of creating the ballot
language and that ad hoc would then do that work, and then at some point you
know, we will figure out the timing to that, but at some point we would gather
again back together as a Commission to review in open session the ballot
language. Which by the way, I have yet to see in any minutes from any Charter
Commission. So, that will be a first that I have seen where the ballot language
actually shows up you know, in an open session for people to talk to which will
be interesting in its own right. Okay.
MS. RICE: Are there...
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Will we have... there will be examples though of ballot language for
us to kind of bone up on so we know what we are supposed to be looking for?
CHR. ADAMS: Right. And we will ask the staff to help us with that too.
MS. RICE: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: Cause they are pretty good at that.
MR. HENRICKS: So you are talking probably up to five members if you would
like, you can have on this ad hoc committee.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. I...
Page 88
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: My anticipation is that as much as possible it would be
physically in the same room working together on that with full support. People
that have been doing it for years.
CHR. ADAMS: Or we divvy it up and then we get back together. Something.
MR. HENRICKS: That's also a good plan.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Any other... so that's... that's the thought process that I
have moving forward so that everybody has an understanding of what we are
talking about. Are there any questions associated with this particular agenda item
for the next regularly scheduled meeting or anything that I just mentioned?
Yes, Commissioner Hamano. Please your mic. I am sorry.
MR. HAMANO: Are we able to attend in Hilo instead of going to Kona?
CHR. ADAMS: You are always able to do that.
MR. HAMANO: Thank you.
MS. RICE: May I...
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Make a suggestion for the future?
CHR. ADAMS: Why certainly.
MS. RICE: I... at the very end of our term, if we could save some time on one of
our last couple of meetings, to have a review of things that we were not totally up
to speed on, and maybe make suggestions for a future, even though it is ten years
from now, things that might be good like extending the time that we have to work
on this so that we are not jamming things at the very end. And have a discussion
about it and then come up with a letter which either goes to Council or to our
State Legislators, or someone so that we can improve the process if we think it
needs to be improved.
CHR. ADAMS: Great. Noted. Thank you and a good idea by the way. Okay.
Announcements, our next meeting is scheduled for June 21st in Building A in the
West Hawai`i Civic Center, in Kailua-Kona. I am open to consideration of a later
time unless everybody wants to get together at 9:30 a.m. on that day. Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: I could go for it being 10:30, it would give us as staff a little
bit more time to get together, get down here, and flat tire... something happens...
Page 89
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -12 June 7, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: So we have held 11:00 o'clock meetings in the past. How does
everybody feel about 11:00 o'clock, is that okay? Okay, so without objection, the
next meeting then would be Friday, June 21st, 2019, 11:00 a.m. at Building A...
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you Chair and thank you Commissioners.
CHR. ADAMS: Building A, Council Chambers...
MR. HENRICKS: For that...
CHR. ADAMS: West Hawai i Civic Center in Kailua-Kona. Any other
announcements for the good of the order? Seeing none, let me just say that I
get... as the Chair I get to be very proud of you and I am. This had the
opportunity to be a rather lengthy meeting and I wouldn't say that it is our
longest. It is close. And I am just... I am very pleased to have had the
opportunity to work through this initial process. It is almost a year folks and you
guys have been doing great, so thank you so much and 1 would entertain a motion
to adjourn.
MS. RICE: So moved
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved and seconded. All in favor? (aye). Motion
passes unanimously with Commissioners Hopkins, Todd, and Roehrig excused.
Vote on Motion There being no further business, at 2:05 p.m. Commissioner Rice moved that
Adjourn the meeting be adjourned. Seconded by Commissioner Saquing and carried by
(Approved): the following voice vote:
Commission Approval:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann,
Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Roehrig, and
Todd -- 3
Excused: None .
August 8, 2019
Mr. D r' Mass Shipman A s 'rns, Chair
t20 Hawai`i County Charter Commission
Page 90