HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-09-11 Regular Session MinutesHAWAII COUNTY BOARD OF ETHICS
MINUTES — REGULAR SESSION
Wednesday, September 11, 2019
10:00 a.m. to 11:02 a.m.
Hawai`i County Building
25 Aupuni Street
County Council Chambers
Hilo, Hawai`i 96720
Members and Staff Present:
Rick Robinson, Chair
Nan Sumner -Mack, Member
Lawrence L. Heintz, Member
Angelic Malia Hall, Deputy Corporation Counsel
Maria Pagala, Secretary
1. CALL TO ORDER (10:00 a.m.)
Mr. Robinson: I'll just call us to order.
2. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (10:00 a.m.)
Mr. Robinson:
Are there any statements from the public on any agenda items?
Nancy? No statements? Okay.
3. APPROVAL OF THE REGULAR SESSION MINUTES OF AUGUST 14, 2019.
(10:01 a.m.)
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Ms. Hall:
Approval of the regular session minutes from August 14, 2019.
I have a couple of things.
Okay.
On page 12. Second paragraph. Applied to pay for airfare to hold
a pier exchange on...that should be p -e -e -r. I think that...
Where's that? Oh right there.
P -e -e -r.
Oh peer. Yes.
Peer. Not pier. And then...
Sorry. What part of the page are you guys looking at?
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Hall:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 lines down under Mr. Saito. The sixth line.
Okay, got it. So p -e -e -r.
And then I was confused on page 13. Mr. Robinson had a second
paragraph. Solar is a big thing. People now green energy is doing
wood chips and burning wood chips. Did you mean know?
Or...what were you talking...
K -n -o -w.
What?
K -n -o -w.
K -n -o -w.
People know green energy is doing wood chips and burning wood
chips. So I'm curious. So it should be k -n -o -w.
And then I had one... The top of page 14, the first line. The Blue
Planet. Then we have Google with her flying thing with Parker
Ranch. What is...?
With their...
Ms. Sumner -Mack: I just wanna know what that is.
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Instead of her, it's their. T -h -e -i -r. What they have is a...looks
like an airplane. And it's on a tether. And it's got about ten
propellers on it and they fly it up in the air like a kite. So the wind
blowing over the propellers generate electricity. So that's what it
is.
Okay sounds like a good idea. And then. One more thing I think.
On page 15, near the bottom. Last paragraph. If anybody knows,
cause this is Mr. Saito speaking. In fact they're using...I have a
contract with Catness to do the actual analysis... Does anybody
know what he meant?
Uh, uh. Catness...no.
Catness?
We're hooked on phonics with that one.
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Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
What?
We're hooked on phonics.
Phonics. Well I get hooked on figuring things out. And then on
the bottom of page 17. The last full paragraph. Two lines from the
bottom. It's not too important cause it's corrected the rest of the
time. But found should be followed.
Where's that on...under Mr. Heintz?
Second line from bottom.
Second line from the bottom.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Should be followed by recusal from voting and then that's made
clear later on but...
Mr. Heintz:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heinz:
Ms. Hall:
Mr. Heintz:
Everywhere else it's followed. It's just my enunciation wasn't
clear.
Anyway I think that's all. I try not to do that but I used to be
proofreader and editor and things like that and so... When it
doesn't make sense, I don't really understand.
You know Maria, for me it would really be helpful if we got these
in a paper format before instead of like on the internet. You know
I don't mind reading on the internet, I just like the tactile function
of holding it and making notes on it and all. So if you could get
those sooner, I'd appreciate it.
I move to approve the minute of the 14th of August...regular
session.
As amended.
As amended.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: I second.
Mr. Robinson:
Okay so moved and seconded and we approve the minutes of the
14th August meeting. Any further discussion? If not, all those in
favor say aye. Contrary minded.
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Motion and Vote: Mr. Heintz moved to approve the August 14, 2019 minutes. Ms.
Sumner -Mack seconded the motion. All members present voted aye.
4. NEW BUSINESS (10:02 a.m.)
Mr. Robinson:
New business. There's no new business I understand before this
group.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS (10:05 a.m.)
a. Review of Gift Disclosure Statements received from the following County
officers or employees.
1. Harry Kim
• Correspondence dated August 30, 2019 from Harry Kim.
2. Wil Okabe
• Correspondence dated September 4, 2019 from Wil Okabe.
Mr. Robinson: Review of disclosure statements received from Harry Kim and Wil
Okabe. We had some questions about those. Should we introduce
our new Corp. Counsel?
Ms. Hall: Oh yeah you can just say Malia Hall for the record. I'm here in
place of J Yoshimoto.
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Hall:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Is that Hall or Ho?
Hall. H -a-1-1. It used to be Ho though, you know same thing.
Okay great.
Thank you.
Okay Wil Okabe. He attached a letter To Whom It May Concern,
on July 14th I attended a grand opening at the Westin Hapuna
Beach Resort. I was asked as a managing director to attend an
evening event to represent the County of Hawai`i and I stayed
over. That is the clarification as to why he stayed over. So I will
pass that along. And then the other is from Harry Kim. As Mayor
we had had a question regarding these items on the wall hangings.
Are these items that stay with the County or were these items that
were given to him personally? And there's a letter attached from
the Mayor that says...this is response to an August 30, 2019
inquiry regarding the wall hanging listed on my gift disclosure
statement dated July 18, 2019. The item received is a Boy Scouts
of Japan plaque that was received by the Reverend Chikai Hamada
of Minamata City, Kumamoto Prefecture Japan. Please see
attached correspondence dated 9/28/18. This plaque will remain
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with the Office of the Mayor upon completion of my term. And
then there's attached letter thanking him...thanking Reverend
Chikai Hamada. So I'll pass that along too. And those were two
questions we had on gift disclosures.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: I already signed it.
Mr. Heintz: Thank you Mr. Chair since I initiated the questions in the first
place. I find the responses satisfactory.
Mr. Robinson: Okay.
Mr. Heintz: And I signed to approve.
Mr. Robinson: Okay. Great. Thank you.
b. Petition 2019-03: Review draft informal advisory opinion regarding a County
officer or employee to determine whether the County of Hawai'i may accept a
donation for the purpose of offsetting travel cost to attend a workshop under
Section 2-91.4 of the Hawaii County Code.
Mr. Robinson: I think everyone has a copy of that.
Mr. Heintz: Yes.
Mr. Robinson: Anyone have any questions or concerns about this?
Mr. Heintz: No questions.
Mr. Robinson: Okay.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: No questions. No concerns.
Mr. Robinson: So do we do a motion to approve this?
Ms. Sumner -Mack: I so move.
Mr. Heintz: Second.
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
Okay it's been moved by Nan Sumner -Mack and seconded by
Larry Heintz that we approve the informal advisory opinion on
petition filed August 6`h, 2019 with the Hawai`i County Board of
Ethics regarding Riley Saito and his capacity as energy specialist
to attend a conference. Any further discussion?
None.
If not, all those in favor say aye. Contrary minded.
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Motion and Vote:
on petition 2019-03.
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack moved to approve the informal advisory opinion
Mr. Heintz seconded the motion. All members present voted aye.
If there's no further items for the regular agenda, we would need to
go into executive session to review confidential financial
disclosure forms. So is there a motion for executive session?
I so moved.
Is there a second?
Ms. Sumner -Mack: I second.
Mr. Robinson: All those in favor say aye. Thank you.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Heintz moved to go into executive session. Ms. Sumner -Mack
seconded the motion. All members present voted aye.
10:10 a.m. The Board moved into executive session.
* * * *
10:26 a.m. The Board returned into regular session.
6. VOTING ON EXECUTIVE SESSION MATTERS (10:26 a.m.)
a.
Review of the executive session minutes of August 14, 2019.
Mr. Robinson: Now is there a motion to approve the minutes of the executive
session from August 14?
Ms. Sumner -Mack: I move that we approve the minutes of the executive session for
August 14th
Mr. Heintz: I second.
Mr. Robinson:
Okay it's been moved and seconded and we approve the minutes
of the meeting. All those in favor say aye. Contrary minded okay.
Motion and Vote: Ms. Sumner -Mack moved to approve executive session minutes. Mr.
Heintz seconded the motion. All members present voted aye.
b. Review of Confidential Financial Disclosure Forms filed pursuant to
Section 2-91.1(d), Hawaii County Code, by County board and commission
members and designated County employees, where personal matters will be
reviewed.
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Mr. Robinson: Now before we go to announcements is there anything regarding
the conference that we attended that you might like to discuss.
Ms. Hall: Your guys motion to accept the financial disclosures.
Mr. Robinson: You're right.
Mr. Heintz: I move to accept.
Mr. Robinson: So moved that we accept all the financial disclosures that were
filed. Is there a second.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: I'll second.
Mr. Robinson: It's been moved and seconded. Any further discussion? If not, all
those in favor say aye. Contrary minded.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Heintz moved to approve and file financial disclosure forms. Ms.
Sumner -Mack seconded the motion. All members present voted aye.
7. ANNOUNCEMENTS (10:30 a.m.)
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Hall:
I'll lead off just by saying I was very happy that we attended that
ethics conference. Knowing that it was the first one they've ever
had...that was a surprise for me.
I was happy to find out that they had some educational materials
prepared...that maybe we could use. I like to think we would...I
don't know what the form would be...but to discuss how we could
maybe improve our efforts to educate including council members
and others. Just to remind...not necessarily educate...but to
remind them that there are these expectations of officials.
That was one of the things that surprised me. I think it was City
and County of Honolulu that they do educational sessions. Here I
don't think they have educational sessions for employees.
Our Office of Corporation Counsel does do trainings for County
employees so we do have that. Basically each of us is required to
do at least two trainings a year. So every six months we have to do
one and I believe J usually does ethics trainings. And then we all
just pick whatever topic or whatever topic the employees want us
to cover.
Mr. Robinson: Was that for County employees?
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Ms. Hall: Yes.
Mr. Robinson: All County employees.
Ms. Hall: So it's open basically to all County employees. Yeah.
Mr. Heintz: Are they required to attend?
Ms. Hall: No. They...it's all open...voluntary attendance.
Mr. Heintz: Okay thank you.
Mr. Robinson: Like the State and the City and County of Honolulu actually have
budgets where they budget for these training sessions. And they
conduct those. Whereas Maui and Kauai was the same thing.
They...like us they really didn't have money to budget for it.
Although the County of Kauai...the ethics committee is attached to
the Mayor's Office directly. Whereas we're attached to Corp.
Counsel. I found that interesting.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: I had a question about something that came up in the last...couple
months ago when our meeting was cancelled because another
function was scheduled on top of our date. And so I didn't want to
let that lapse because I think we should have a back-up plan... of
how we could meet if our space is preempted. Anybody have any
thoughts about that?
Mr. Robinson: Well I know the concern for Maria was because of the recording
equipment. Correct?
Ms. Pagala:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Yes.
And we talked about utilizing that space over there but there's no
recording equipment. Whereas, I know when I was on the Water
Board and also Civil Service Commission, they both had their own
recording devices if needed. And so it would be a problem without
this room only for the recording. Correct?
Anyway I'm raising that just to put in our tickler files so we
don't...so we think about it...if another situation comes up where
our meeting time is preempted...what should be the back-up plan
be or could it be.
Maria, you might want to check with these Civil Service...where
are they located now. They used to be right across the street.
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Ms. Hall: Yeah we can look into possibly...if necessary...borrowing some
recording equipment. Cause I know other boards do have...some
other boards...not all but a few other boards do have recording
equipment. So we could see if we could borrow them.
Mr. Robinson: Yeah. Water Boards got portable equipment if anything can
borrow that. They're always pretty helpful.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Another question I had was...do we have...do we ever fine
people...or have we ever fined anyone... And if so...do we have a
fine schedule? And this isn't a question of anybody in particular
but some of these boards seem to have a fine schedule. Of so
much if you...am I under testimony or something...you know $50
or $20 or whatever. So I'd just like to know as a point of
information...what our policy is.
Mr. Robinson:
Yeah, I was surprised the City and County of Honolulu they fined
like Romy Cachola...what was that...$35,000 or something like
that. Remember when that came up Nan?
Mr. Heintz: I believe I read somewhere we have a...not a schedule but a limit
to the fine of $1,000 I think.
Mr. Robinson: That's my understanding too.
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
Yeah. And that or some personnel action recommendations. So
those are where our options at.
I don't know if that was a State or the City that had done that fine
for Romy Cachola but I guess it was a [inaudible] of a personal
matter. It was filed with an ethics violation. I don't think we've
ever had a personnel action filed as in ethics. Whereas you know
there was allegations with impropriety or whatever. I don't think
we've ever had anything filed here.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Yeah.
Ms. Hall:
Yeah, the code section for penalties basically just says failure to
comply with the provisions of Sections 14-2 to 14-4, shall
constitute cause for suspension, removal from office or
employment, or such other penalty as the council may prescribe by
ordinance.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Oh wait. This is executive...are we in executive...
Ms. Hall: Oh no we're open again.
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Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Ms. Hall:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Ms. Hall:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Heintz:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Heintz:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
We're regular session.
Okay. So what was that called? What was that number you gave?
I'm looking at the Hawaii County Code 14-6. That just talks about
penalties for violating...or failure to comply with Section 14-2 and
14-4. So that's conduct of employees. But it says the penalties
are...suspension, removal from office or employment, or such
penalty as the council may prescribe by ordinance. So I'd have to
go see if there's any ordinances that they adopted for...you know
fees or penalties and fees or anything like that. I don't see a
fine... any fines in here or anything.
And I think I brought this up too last... I confess, I haven't taken
the time to go through our book but... Is it true that members of
this board...no more than two can belong to the same political
party? Maui has taken that restriction off. But I haven't checked
through it to see if that still holds for us. Because I know I was not
asked. But I changed political parties so I would be sure not to
exceed the limit. If in case everybody was...there were three in
the same party.
Sony, let me just correct myself. Its section 14-6 of the Charter.
That's what I was reading from. But to that point, I believe there is
in the Charter, Section 13-4 which basically says that no more than
50%...I believe it's something to that effect of quorum of each
board can be of the same political party. But let me double check
on that and I'll get right back to you.
I mean I don't think they were applying it because nobody asked
me. Did they ask you what political party you belong to? Larry?
There was something to that effect.
There was?
Yes. It's something like...two members...no more than two
members... at some point.
But then they didn't ask me...at least what party I belong to so. It
would be nice to know whether it's still in effect or if it's no longer
applied. And if it's no longer applied, we should take it
out... somehow.
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Ms. Hall:
Mr. Heintz:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Hall:
Mr. Robinson:
The charter provision is still in the Charter. But I'm gonna find it
for you right now. From my understanding... and I don't...haven't
seen your application. But from my understanding, it's supposed
to be on the application when you apply for the Board. What party
you're...
I remember saying no party on my application.
I don't remember anything.
This is interesting. I don't remember.
Well, you've been a member longer than we have.
Yeah. I just don't remember if...I don't remember when I got
asked. I did the Water Board. Two terms of the Civil Service, the
Merit Appeals Board and this and I don't remember ever being
asked. One of the things, though, that I...was an eye opener at the
ethics conference...was about bumper stickers and about
participation in political movements...and getting involved in...
You know, Rey Graulty was sitting next to me and we were
chitchatting. And he's like...oh I don't...it saved me a lot of
money...I don't donate to anybody anymore. So that's a good
thing.
But what about bumper stickers. Do I have to take my bumper
stickers off?
Are you asking us for an opinion?
Absolutely.
We'll defer to Malia.
I'm definitely not the expert on bumper stickers but I can say for
my other boards and commissions, it actually states their political
party on their nomination letters. So I don't know if you guys still
have copies of your actual nomination letter. But you could check
and see. Cause it'll say like...such and such person's nominated
and they're an member of this party. But those are the other
boards and commissions I work on. So I don't know specifically
for yours. But I am going to find the provision in the Charter.
I have to go back and look.
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Ms. Sumner -Mack: I think it would be worth knowing...if they ask...or if they put it
down. I could ask a person who nominated me. But I never saw a
nomination...
Mr. Robinson: I just remember having to come in here and sit there and justify
yourself Then you get the...you know from the County Council.
Mr. Heintz: Yeah.
Mr. Robinson: You go forth and...
Mr. Heintz: Yeah. I do specifically remember at some point in the process.
You were indicate your political affiliation if any. And I thought it
was connected with no more than two members of the board can be
the same party. But that's...and I don't know what stage of the
process where there was the nomination process or my application
information or whatever. I don't recall that part.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Well I know it said somewhere that this was a requirement of
applicants. And I remember then being... And I went through a
little bit of trouble to change my political party. And then I was
surprised that I was never asked anywhere.
Ms. Hall: Yes so it is in the Charter, Section 13-4 (f). Not more than a bare
majority of members shall belong to the same political party.
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Hall:
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heintz:
13-4 (f)?
Yes. 13-4 (f).
Yeah and then our binder...we don't have that section. We just
have the Code of Ethics section.
Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah.
That's why. Cause I've been looking all this time.
Yeah. Anything else from our conference?
Well other than that, I've found it very stimulating. People were
very forthcoming. I was quite impressed with the whole process.
And it was quite interesting, I thought. And I also...there were a
couple of times during the conference where I asked questions and
people made it very clear that they were not going to respond or
answer those questions. So there were things that people didn't
disclose. Judge Marks, in particular, maybe it was the nature of
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Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heintz:
my questions but... But I found it interesting...very valuable
conference. Yeah.
One of the things I didn't realize was...how many... What did the
guy from the State, Rey Graulty, said they do usually six to eight
per meeting. But they have investigators, they have staff that vet
all of this. They do everything. And so it's more or less a
presentation from the staff and items they've already investigated
and got the information on. And then they just say yay or nay. It's
not like...where in our case...we get these appeals and then we
have to do all the investigation ourselves in essence here. And
they have funds to hire investigators that they need to. Whereas, in
our case, we just do the best we can.
I have a question. As some of you know, I've been somewhat
concerned about the Sunshine Law and how it affects our
discussions, our expirations, our investigations. And I know the
Sunshine Law is designed so that to increase the chance of trust in
government...because everything's discussed in the open. But I
noticed at the conference...these...in the case of Honolulu or
Oahu...because they have a separate investigators...the cases get
investigated. So for instance, the recent case that we dealt with
would have been investigated by investigators. They would have
been talking with another...their three to five investigators. They
explore discuss and make recommendations and a report. So when
the board actually deals with a case, they do that in public session.
But it isn't like a first thoughts. As do you recall the Maui
representative, legal representative said it's kind of in Maui...it's a
fly by the seat of your pants situation. Yeah and that's what it was
for us. And so we could not discuss the particulars of a case in
executive session. We can't discuss it in private, except only with
one other member and not serially. But what I found interesting is
that in Oahu, that's actually...then overcome by the...by the fact
that they have investigators so that they actually have a report
which includes recommendations. So that you would have it all
the way right up to drafting motions. We don't have anything like
that. And one of the things that I understand and I missed actually
is the question to the legal counsel. There's something called a
permitted interaction group. So for instance, as I understand, if our
ethics commission had seven members. You could have a
permitted interaction group of...what...three members?
Ms. Hall: Less than.
Mr. Heintz: Less than a majority, right?
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Ms. Hall: Less than quorum. Yes.
Mr. Heintz:
Less than the quorum. And in our case it would be two...the same
as provided so it's not really relevant. But I would have
appreciated the opportunity to discuss and the opportunity to
discuss cases...in private...with some of the logistics exploring
because one likes to explore ideas that you may want to take back.
But in a public session...I mean it makes it difficult. I just think it
really...expects a lot of the members to be able to be that on top of
things that are being reported and discussed in live time. And we
don't have that...those kinds of reflective periods. And the closest
thing I could come up with is this permitted interaction group but
it's irrelevant because we don't have... We'd have to have at least
seven members in order for three of us to meet. Now I do
understand that, for instance, the legal counsel can meet with and
meets with the chair to discuss a petition. I could meet with any
other member to discuss a case...a case in the situation...as long as
I didn't disclose or commit to...how I was inclined to vote. But
I'm just trying to figure out how to make...to improve the
reflective quality of our actions. I've already indicated in the last
case that we dealt with...that there were things that I thought
of...there were things that I didn't understand in terms of how
interactive and how much cross examination and how
investigative. And even adversarial one might need to be...with
witnesses or petitioners or respondents. Especially if they didn't
seem to be forthcoming. And all of this...it's motivated by trying
to improve the quality of our role because we really are the
supervisors of the public employees and political members.
Mr. Robinson: Right.
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
And I'm still sort of at a loss as to how to improve that. Because
the permitted interaction group is really irrelevant and so it's just a
matter of talking to one other person. Thank you.
For me I was surprised that...like Kauai has seven members and
they're attached to the Mayor and they get a budget every year.
Maui's like us...attached to the Corporation Counsel and they
don't have a budget either. Now the population on Kauai is about
50,000. Population on Maui is about...what 90,000. The
population on the Big Island is about 205,000. Population on
Oahu, which has a lot more cases for the County level, that's about
925,000 I think. Something like that. And if you look at the
workload, I mean, for Oahu...they have probably... What do we
have...1,800 employees in the island of...County employees in...
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Ms. Hall:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
Ms. Hall:
Give or take, yeah.
And Maui has more or less than that. Kauai has about equal to
Maui so they're kind of high as far as public employees. But City
and County of Oahu has a lot of employees. And the State Ethics
Commission which deals with State employees...they really have a
lot of cases. And I don't know why they have so many.
They have investigators and they need something to do. Yeah.
We have so few cases. It's shocking to me. Because it must be
other things going on that we don't hear about. And I'm
wondering if having our meetings more often in...someplace
besides Hilo...would help to make people more aware that we
exist. I don't know. That was just one idea I had.
Well, it was tongue in cheek but the executive director for the
County of Honolulu said in answer to one of my questions
is...well it's because all the unethical people are on Oahu. Which
I decided to accept...appropriate answer.
Well I know like on the...when I was on the Civil Service
Commission which it became the Merit Appeals Board...those 10
years. There were cases that we'd get that, in retrospect, now that
I'm serving...it would have been better handled in ethics. Then
they would have been as a Civil Service matter so. Maybe it's just
like we say...educating the employees as to what is available to
them.
Well going back to the topic of budget. I've only been on this
Board four now months and at every meeting, our distinguished
member who is not present, Judge Wiseman asks for a coffee
machine and he's declined. So would've noted that.
Water Board always had a traveling coffee machine and Civil
Service they had always met here and they always had their stuff
but we're in the County. Evidently, the County Council doesn't
get coffee. Is that true?
I can't speak to that actually. Luckily I don't have to be in the
Council too much.
Mr. Robinson: Malia's going...why am I being asked this question.
Ms. Hall: But I can check on that for you.
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Mr. Heintz:
Well I don't know if it's appropriate to raise this question but one
of the questions I raised at the ethics conference was...if we note
something that seems problematic or possibly problematic... That
we might ask the question about starting an investigation and does
the ethics committee have that...isn't that part of its responsibility
to initiate investigations. And so I asked the question which a lot
of people ducked...about...with the situation with the TMT and
County and government officials...from the Governor on down
have a responsibility and have....a duty to uphold the Constitution.
Which means, includes enforcing the laws of the State. And one
might think that...well six weeks or eight weeks have passed and
we have County and State officers from the Governor, the
Attorney General, the Prosecutor, the Chiefs of Police who are not
enforcing the law or are dealing with the laws of the State of
Hawai`i unequally. Not being applied to some people. Then the
question becomes at what point...do we wait for a petition by
members of the citizenry or do we write a letter asking the question
of the Governor, of the Mayor, and so on. And everyone, I mean
the answer I got was...well we're not soliciting business here...so
I understand that. But I... Another example of that is...so we're
fully aware that at some point...someone is going to form a
petition about the TMT situation...it seems. The August 30th
headline in the paper...conflict of interest for Roth? If one reads
this...I can see a petition being raised. But there's also a question
of...well do we ever initiate or should we...an investigation or a
question. So I just wonder. I'm not in any way taking a side or
suggesting anything here. But there's not only a question of
conflict of interest...but there's the question of appearance of.
Even though there isn't one maybe. Or trust in government in any
impropriety whether one should just recuse yourself. These are the
kinds of thoughts and questions and discussions that I would like
to be able to have with my fellow Board members. Not in
public...because I would prefer not to appear above the centerfold
of the newspaper. Especially when I'm just wanting to air...what I
think are important questions that are related to...I took an oath as
a member of the ethics commission...to do a particular job and
follow the Constitution.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Are you really asking whether we have the right...the
authority... and to initiate an ethics investigation ourselves. Or do
we have to wait for somebody to complain to us and to accuse
certain officials.
Mr. Heintz:
I think I know the answer to that...and the answer that J gave me is
yes we can and it's one of our responsibilities to initiate... We
don't have to wait for petitions.
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Mr. Robinson: Right.
Mr. Heintz: So at what point am I then failing in my job as a member of the
Board. Not to raise a question. Thank you.
Mr. Robinson: I liked the guy sitting next to me, whose chair of the State Ethics
Commission. When you bought that up and he turned and looked
at me and he said...that's a really interesting point. Should the
County Ethics Commission file a petition with the State Ethics
Commission to say that these items are occurring and it appears to
be an unethical that the laws are not being applied? Just saying
that they would be applied across the board. If I were to go out
and camp at a State beach park that said no camping. I would
immediately be hoisted out of there. And so that was what your
question really addressed.
Mr. Heintz: Right.
Mr. Robinson:
That's something we need to decide. Do we want to do that? Do
we want to file as a Hawai`i County Ethics Board, an ethics
complaint with a State Ethics Commission?
Mr. Heintz: Right.
Mr. Robinson: What about the lack of enforcement of the rules and regulations as
well as the laws of the State of Hawaii?
Mr. Heintz: Yeah. I at least detected since I asked that question at that session.
A lot of nervous laughter and the ducking.
Mr. Robinson: Yeah.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Well seems to me that would be a valid point. But who's going to
bell the cat? I mean we could all be hung in effigy...if we...
There are threats of violence and worse going on in this island and
I'm trying to keep my mouth shut cause I'm not in the popular
side. I mean...not the most vocal side. And it's a good thing she's
not here or I get quoted. But I think it is a valid question because
this is a very important issue. It's having consequences for the
State...for the State economy...for this island...for the
university...for... And supposedly if the polls are accurate...about
80% of Hawaiian voters would...you know don't back this. So
whose law...our officials is supposed to enforce the rule of law.
Well...whose law is being enforced at this point so...? We're all
sworn to secrecy by the way.
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Ms. Hall:
I just want to remind the commission that there is discretion.
Police officers do have discretion. I'm not saying on either side
but they have a discretion. That means like even though, you
know, each one of us may speed. Not every one of us is gonna get
pulled over, so. There's also that layer of it. So at that point, that
becomes part of it.
Mr. Robinson: Discretionary enforcement.
Ms. Hall: Yes.
Mr. Robinson: I wonder if that'll happen if I ever get a DUI? We need discretion
here. I think you make a very valid point Larry.
Mr. Heintz: Yeah. I'm not in any way prejudging this...it seems to me a very
good argument could be made...that the Governor is addressing
this by his...getting the Mayor involved and that there is a process
and formal process going on. I mean they're not simply ignoring
this. I mean at least an argument can be made. But as the letters of
the editor indicate and a lot of people would say...well...six weeks
now...eight weeks... But there's a... I think this is just a matter
of time before the intersection at Kapiolani and McCully gets
blocked and held up because of this issue. And we'll see what
happens then. They're not enforcing it on Mauna Kea but if you
close down that intersection in Honolulu...
Mr. Robinson: Oh they aren't going to be happy.
Mr. Heintz: But it's a matter of time here. It seems to me that these things are
gonna happen. I think I've dribbled on enough.
Mr. Robinson: I think that we should put this on the agenda for next meeting.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: How should it be listed?
Mr. Robinson: Consideration for filing of a petition for ethics violation related
to...
Mr. Heintz: I'm happy to... But I will not be in attendance to the next
meeting. I'll be in Poland.
Mr. Robinson: We'll put it on the one when you're back.
Mr. Heintz: Okay, thank you.
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Mr. Robinson: We'll put it on the one when you're back. Okay Maria?
Ms. Sumner -Mack: When J is back.
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
When J is back. Cause he heard the questions and the responses at
the conference. Malia was unfortunately not there. She would
have heard it as well.
And also he'll have all these minutes that are taking place right
now.
Yeah. Okay. We'll put it on the agenda for the November
meeting.
Thank you.
Okay. Any further discussion items? If not, the next minutes...the
next meeting is scheduled for October 9. It will be right here in the
County building chamber. Right Maria? Yeah.
8. ADJOURNMENT (11:02 a.m.)
Mr. Robinson:
Mr. Heintz:
Mr. Robinson:
Is there a motion to adjourn?
So moved.
Second?
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Second.
Mr. Robinson: Okay moved and seconded that we adjourn. All in favor say aye.
Hearing adjourned.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Heintz moved to adjourn. Ms. Sumner -Mack seconded the motion.
All members present voted aye.
Respectfully submitted:
Maria Pagala, Secretary
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