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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2020-06-04 Exh A Dierdre & Benjamin Imagire SPP 19-212 WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT JUNE 4, 2020 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of DIERDRE AND BENJAMIN IMAGIRE SPP 19-000212) was called to order at 9:05 a.m. via live stream meeting with Chairman Thomas Raffipiy presiding. VIRTUAL ATTENDANCE (COMMISSIONERS): Gilbert Aguinaldo, Dean Au, Joseph Clarkson, Thomas Raffipiy, John Replogle. VIRTUAL ATTENDANCE (STAFF): Malia Hall (Deputy Corporation Counsel for the Windward Planning Commission), Michael Yee (Planning Director), John Mukai (Deputy Corporation Counsel for the Planning Director); Jeff Darrow (Planning Program Manager), Maija Jackson (Planner), Alex Roy (Planner), Jessica Andrews (Planner), Christian Kay (Planner); Rachelle Ley (Department Secretary), and Sarah Hata-Finley (Commission Secretary). And 21 members from the public live streaming the meeting. APPLICANT: DIERDRE AND BENJAMIN IMAGIRE (SPP 19-000212) Application for a Special Permit to allow the development and operation of a chiropractic, acupuncture and massage clinic and related improvements on an approximately one-acre portion of a two-acre property situated in the State Land Use Agricultural District. The subject property is located off`Ilima Street, approximately 0.2 miles northwest(mauka) of Ainaloa Boulevard, between 35th and 36th Avenue, Orchidland Estates, Kea`au, Puna, Hawaii, TMK: (3) 1-6- 009:017 (por). Secretary's Note: "—"means that there were technical and/or internet difficulties which made the conversation inaudible. RAFFIPIY: We'll proceed to the first item on the agenda, Applicant Dierdre and Benjamin Imagire, SPP 19-000212. Application for a Special Permit to allow the development and operation of a chiropractic, acupuncture, and massage clinic, and related improvements on an approximately one-acre portion of a two-acre property situated in the State Land Use Agricultural District. The subject property is located off`Ilima Street approximately 0.2 miles northwest mauka of Ainaloa Boulevard between 35h and 36h Avenue, Orchidland Estates, Kea`au, Puna, Hawaii TMK: (3) 1-6-009:017. Now, staff will be doing the presentation. ANDREWS: Good morning, Planning Commission. My name is Jessica Andrews, and I am doing the presentation today for Special Permit Application No. 19-000212, Dierdre and Benjamin Imagire. EXHIBIT A 1 I'm going to share my screen, and I'll give it a minute to make sure that you all can see the content of the screen. So, at this point, I've shared the screen. You should see the first slide of the presentation. Planning Commissioners, can you see that? Great. REPLOGLE: Yes. ANDREWS: Thank you. Yes, this is the first slide introducing the Applicants, Dierdre and Benjamin Imagire. Now you see the location map. You should see the subject property indicated in a red rectangle on `Ilima Street. It is in the Puna District in Orchidland Subdivision, Orchidland Estates. The Applicants are requesting a Special Permit to establish a chiropractic, acupuncture, and massage clinic to construct two dwellings on the subject parcel, one for commercial operations of the clinic and the other to be used as a dwelling. Additionally, to construct a detached 150- square foot structure to be used as a massage treatment room. This map shows the zoning of the area. The subject parcel is outlined in red. It is zoned Ag-la, one acre. Surrounding properties are zoned Ag–5 acre, Ag–3 acre, Residential– 15 [acre], and CV-38. The State Land Use Boundary Map indicates that all of the surrounding properties including the subject parcel are designated Agricultural. The General Plan LUPAG Map indicates that the subject parcel is Rural. There is some Extensive Agriculture designation to, nearby to the, to the parcel. This slide shows the Applicant's proposed site plan. The lower part of the screen is `Ilima Street, and you can see the Applicant's proposal with the office and the detached treatment room, the lower portion of the parcel, and the main dwelling to be used as the Applicant's residence on the upper portion of the site plan. These are the proposed floor plans that were included with the Special Permit application. On the left is the proposed clinic showing the layout as currently proposed, and on the right is the proposed main dwelling for the Applicants. This is an aerial photograph showing the current conditions of the site. The site is outlined in, the subject parcel, I mean, is outlined in yellow, and `Ilima Street is just below it. These are site photographs showing the views of the subject property from `Ilima Street. And, two photographs showing the access road—on the left is looking mauka on `Ilima Street and on the right is looking makai on `Ilima Street. The Planning Director is recommending denial of the application for the following reasons. The request will be contrary to the General Plan and Puna Community Development Plan because it is not consistent with the goals and objectives stated therein regarding identified locations for commercial uses and developments. The granting of this particular request at this particular location will be inconsistent with the objectives sought to be accomplished by the land use law and regulations and could unreasonably burden public agencies to provide infrastructure because the access road is substandard and cannot accommodate an increase in traffic. The proposed use EXHIBIT A 2 does not promote the effectiveness and objectives of Chapter 205, HRS, as amended, because it does not establish an effective land use pattern. The proposed use is not a reasonable use of land situated within the Agricultural District, because it is contrary to standard Building Permit process. This slide shows a portion of the [Puna] Community Development Plan. This is the Puna Community Development Plan, and it shows Figure 5-10 which is Orchidland Neighborhood Village Center. The Village Center designation is outlined in dashed line. As you can see, that is the preliminary Orchidland Neighborhood Village Center boundary, and the subject property is very small on the upper left of the slide in blue. The Orchidland Village—excuse me, the Orchidland Neighborhood Village Center was identified by the community association to be located along Orchidland Drive between, from Highway 130 to halfway between 35h and 34h Avenues. It encompasses 15 parcels and an area of about 16 acres. And, the next slide shows the General Plan Land Use Pattern Allocation Guide Map. On the left is kind of a larger view showing the General Plan LUPAG Map in the Puna area, and you can see on the upper left of that slide, there's several rectangles of orange, and those are designated MDU, Medium Density Urban. And, a zoomed-in view on the right, shows you those orange rectangles again, and one of them is the Orchidland Neighborhood Village Center that we saw previously that would be designated MDU. And, the others are in HPP, but this, thesesorry, the map on the left is from like the General Plan. That concludes the presentation, and I now turn the floor back to the Chair. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much, appreciate it, Jessica. Do we have any questions for the staff from the Commission? No questions? All right. Is the Applicant or their representative present? KERN: Mr. Chair, Zendo Kern here representing the Applicant, DeidreDeidre Imagire is also present. It looked like Commissioner Replogle was trying to wave you down. RAFFIPIY: Okay, thank you. Commissioner Replogle, do you have a question? KERN: Commissioner Replogle, your mic looks like its muted. REPLOGLE: We golden now? RAFFIPIY: Okay, now I can hear you, John. REPLOGLE: Okay, sorry. I'm not quite clear on how far the designated community commercial space is from the subject property. If I could—if the presenter could clarify that again. EXHIBIT A 3 ANDREWS: Yes, Commissioner Replogle, if you can still see the General Plan Land Use Pattern Allocation Guide Map on the—okay, on the, on the right side, the subject property is indicated in red. There's a red outline that designates the subject property to the south. REPLOGLE: Okay, I see that. ANDREWS: Yeah, and then, if you look at Orchidland Drive which may be a little small, but just two streets, two blocks to the north, there's a rectangle that is shown in orange, and that's the Orchidland Neighborhood Village Center. REPLOGLE: Okay, thank you. I see it now. Okay, I'm good. ANDREWS: Thank you. REPLOGLE: Thank you. RAFFIPIY: Any other questions from the Commission? All right, I will need to swear the Applicant in. Could you raise KERN: Deidre, raise your right hand as well. RAFFIPIY: Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Windward Planning Commission? KERN: Yes. D. IMAGIRE: Yes. RAFFIPIY: Thank you. Please state your name and where you reside, and you can proceed. KERN: Zendo Kern here, planning consultant residing on the Big Island. D. IMAGIRE: My name is Deidre Imagire, and I live in Hawaiian Paradise Park on the Big Island. KERN: Thank you, thank you, Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, Planning Director, and all the staff. Obviously, we find ourselves in some very unprecedented times. I hope you all are doing well. Challenged would be a severe understatement, but nonetheless, we're here, and thank goodness for some technology. I'm going to say right off we're having our first Planning Commission meeting with some somewhat shaky internet connection and a recommendation of denial for a, for a family that's trying to operate a business and do well, is a" " and, the thought, you know, we'll do our very best, and my hope is that the Commissioners will see that our request is reasonable and it's positive and it's good for our community. I'm going to start with just kind of going over some, some technicals on my side and then Ms. Imagire will share some of her story. EXHIBIT A 4 So, as far as the General Plan goes, you could argue this both ways. This does support economic growth. It does support a lot in there, and I think we could argue, argue that both ways. As far as the community, Puna Community Development Plan is concerned, it's silent on Special Permits. It does talk about commercial, and I think is not necessarily a commercial use in its normal nature. If this was a gas station or a convenience store or a Laundromat or something of that nature, it should probably go in those designated commercial areas. It's also a challenge, though, because those lands in those commercial areas are private and say, for example, Paradise Park, are basically all owned by one large landowner that isn't doing anything with it. We sit here with this community development plan trying to have some reasonable planning when it comes to true commercial, but nothing happens. What do we do? We drive to Hilo, drive to Kea`au, but it's very, it's very challenging. I think this is " " you know, because this is a home, this is a, you know, it's, it's a chiropractic, massage clinic being conducted by the owners of the land that want to be able to live on their property. This is " ." They're serving the community. They're not selling a product even. They're offering a vital service to our community, and I think that's really important. This kind of goes a little bit back to health" " and they didn't all get pushed into town where you had to go to town every single time. I believe it's about balance. I think this really needs to be looked at and really carefully considered. There is, there's been some, some interesting back and forth. We've been going back and forth with this with the Planning Department for a while, and I wanted to make sure that it's, it's somewhat understood of what's really trying to occur here. The Applicants are looking to build the home located on the front of the property. They're going to live in that home. They're not going to be operating the business during that time. Their goal is to eventually build the home on the property. That'll be their primary residence and turn the front home into the actual chiropractic clinic, so that will be the commercial space. They are fully aware that when that occurs,they'll have to bring that up to code " " for commercial use. The challenge is, is that they can't get two building permits on that property. So,they're coming in early. They're asking for permission. They're doing it right" " and here we are trying to do it right and basically getting a negative recommendation. It's, it's challenged, so we talked, you know, about why do it this way. Well, it's the only way they can really do it, and ask for permissions. They're going to build the place in front. They're gonna live there. They'll be able to, by allowing the Special Permit, they'll be able to get a building permit for the home in the back and start building that as money becomes available at which time, they would then move to the back and the front would then get converted. So, at no time, would they be living in the same place and conducting business in the same unit. I think that's really important. That was to be one of the conditions that I was hoping if we had gotten a positive recommendation or if the Commission decides to vote in favor of this is that we should have some conditions, obviously, and one of those would be that, you know, they have to " " space. So, it's been well-thought out. It's, I think it's admirable what they're trying to do, come in, they offer a really great service. These testimonies, I mean I hope all of them have gotten to the Commissioners. I haven't to my knowledge, we haven't received anything negative. EXHIBIT A 5 As far as undue, providing burden to public service, this has been a long on-going situation in Puna, and the roads are private, and we don't get any public service period, and we haven't gotten it out there for my entire life. So, that just doesn't make sense. It's not like the County is going to come around and do that anytime soon I don't think. I think we got bigger issues outside of these areas. I think that's important. Now,to say this doesn't work in a way is this is exactly what a Special Permit is for. This is, it's unique, it's unusual, it provides a service to the community. The impact is small. The impact is defined, and I would say that the impact would have a much bigger " "than it would have any type of negative. Again, if we were here looking for a convenience store in this location, it wouldn't be the spot. But, to provide actual healing and care in our community, community care, I think, I think is needed and necessary prior to Covid. Now we're living in a different world. Now, we're living with Covid where businesses are just being " " in a single blow, done. How do we create resilience? And, how do we create sustainability here on the island, in our community? Well, this is one of those ways. Somebody can actually live on their property and provide community care. I would venture to say that this would be a really good thing, and I really hope the Commissioners can see that and build that, and what I do beg here and " ", that the Commission is going to go in a way to not support this, I would beg for a continuance, especially being this is the first, first hearing doing a WebEx. Ideally, though, we'd avoid that, put some good conditions together and make it right and support these people, support this family in our community, on our island. I would like to pass it over to Mrs. Imagire for her to shareso, thank you so much. D. IMAGIRE: Thank you, Zendo. I just thought I would, I just wanted to chime in on some of the things that were mentioned so far before I go into our story, and one of`em is the, regarding the condition of the road. Yeah, it's not great, but a lot of the roads in Orchidland are even worse, and we received, since we purchased the property, we have been receiving the newsletters from the community association, and that stretch of road on `Ilima is actually on their plan to fix up. So,the community association is already planning to improve that segment of road. Okay, let meso, again, my name is Deidre Imagire. My husband, Dr. Benjamin, and I own and operate Back to Basics Chiropractic, and we run Kokua Chiropractic Clinic with the help of our receptionist [stated name]. Our receptionist, [stated name], and my husband are at the office in Kea`au right now. Both of our clinics will be running simultaneously in the " " the application be approved. Back to Basics Chiropractic is our for-profit clinic, and it's been serving patients in East Hawai`i for almost four years either at the Maku`u Farmers Market where we first started or at our office in the Kea`au Urgent Care. Kokua Chiropractic Clinic is a non-profit Clinic we set up offering low-cost care to those on Quest with a preference for Hawaiian locals. It has been in operation for " ". Our mission with both clinics is to be of service to our community by offering affordable quality chiropractic care. So, why do we want to have a home-based office in Orchidland? One reason is to increase access to care for lower Puna. As mentioned in at least one of the patient letters of support submitted to the Commission, we have many patients that live in communities in lower Puna. Many of these prefer to see us at the Maku`u Farmers Market, and some are unable to continue EXHIBIT A 6 seeing us when we stopped working there last summer and moved all our operations to our Kea`au office to facilitate insurance billing. We need a lot of computers and staff for that. Due to construction and occasional traffic accidents on Highway 130, there have been multiple occasions when patients have gotten stuck between " " and have had to cancel their appointments. Even just ten minutes less in travel time can make a big difference for a patient in acute pain. The other benefit of us being in Orchidland is simply [ ] to a health care professional. Dr. Benjamin's training as a doctor of chiropractic includes screen patients for more serious conditions that need referral to primary care physicians or even to the ER. Seeing a chiropractor first can also save people with musculoskeletal issues a trip to the ER which is one of the reasons why as essential health care providers, chiropractors have been allowed to stay open during the pandemic. Lots of our patients don't use medical doctors either because of a lack of access, lack of insurance coverage, or trust issues. As such, Dr. Benjamin plays a valuable role in helping to catch [inaudible] down the otherwise going north such as high blood pressure, or an unnoticed fever during a time when catching early cases of Covid-19 is of particular concern for our community. Sometimes, Dr. Benjamin even catches something missed by a patient's primary care physician. One time, one of our patients came in to our office complaining of pain in his calf shortly after having making a visit to his primary care physician. The PCP told him that he had a muscle strain and had prescribed the patient muscle relaxer. Dr. Benjamin examined the patient and did an orthopedic test for a blood clot. The test indicated that the patient might have a clot so he sent the man to the ER and asked that he follow up with our office once he knew what the result was. The man called us back five hours later to inform us that he did indeed have a blood clot or deep vein thrombosis and was now on blood thinners to prevent the clot from lodging in his lungs and killing him. Personally, we would like to have our clinic close to our future home to make things a little easier for our family and to save money. We found out last year that our oldest son who is ten has some learning disabilities. He needs a lot more parental help completing his schoolwork than most children his age. We also have a seven-year old, and I'm pregnant with our surprise child, number 3, due in November. Currently, we have no one to cover our receptionist should she or her children become ill. If we had a home-based office, our boys could be at home a few yards away, and I'd be able to bring the baby to the office to fill in as needed. With his commute time essentially non-existent, Dr. Benjamin would also be able to help more with the children. Financially speaking, the mortgage on this new office will be about a third of what we are paying for our smaller clinic in Kea`au town. Although we would like to be able to keep both offices and potentially hire an associate to expand our hours and access, as a current demand of our services currently exceeds are availability, should anything more serious happen with Covid-19, our plan would be to close our Kea`au Urgent Care office and save significantly on our overhead expenses. EXHIBIT A 7 If these reasons aren't enough to help you approve our application, I'd like to share one additional consideration which Zendo alluded to the fact that we have applied for a Special Use Permit. When we purchased our current home in HPP, both our realtor and loan officers suggested that we could run our clinic out of the permitted `ohana connected to our home without any concerns. Several people we know run businesses in the park and in Orchidland that are not permitted in agricultural zones such as counselors, hairdressers, massage therapists, acupuncturists, and even another doctor of chiropractic. Following the laws and paying our taxes has always been important to us. It's part of how we show respect to Hawai`i. As such, please consider that we are humbly asking permission in advance to operate our business in Orchidland. when many people's opinion is that engaging in this process is an unnecessary and costly hassle. I am happy to answer any questions the Commissioners or others may have and thank you for your time. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much. Did the Applicant—have you read that,the Director's denial recommendation and have anything else to say about that? KERN: I certainly don't agree with it. I'd be happy to see some conditions on there. I think this is, this is one of those times that it's a, you know, a Special Permit is " "to people. I know as a Commissioner, when I sat on there, these were the,these were the applications that I went home on when I was able to do some heavy lifting that I felt really, really good about. I'm happy to answer any questions and allow the conversation to go and depending on how its going, we'd love to chime back in to respond. Deidre, you had a ? D. IMAGIRE: Yes, I believe the Chair asked if we had any comments regarding the denial, and I did. I just wanted to share that before we even involved Zendo, we spent about a year looking for the right property. We knew that we wanted to live on the same property, and we did look in that Orchidland Drive area. We even looked up farther from there, because we didn't know exactly where that was, but we guessed that was the area that we would have the most success in getting permission to have a business. And, what was for sale near there was way out of our price range. We also took a look at the areas that had been designated in Hawaiian Paradise Park, and none of those things were for sale. I think if you wanted to purchase them, you needed to purchase like several acre block to do some huge development with, and that's simply not, I mean we're not developers, so, so we did spend a lot of time looking and thinking at what would be the right place, and that's part of the reason why this lot is on `Ilima Drive. We thought about access to the highway. We thought about what else is going on there. We thought about the fact that there is a very popular safety check place down the corner of`Ilima and Highway 130. So, that's thank you. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much. Commissioner Clarkson, you have a question? CLARKSON: Yes, my question is not for the Applicant, however. It's for Planning staff, and it relates to—if you could just explain the difference between home businesses and non-home businesses. Explain how the second farm dwelling permit application process would come into EXHIBIT A 8 play if this application were approved, but most importantly, and I know we're going to cover this on the next item on the agenda, explain the difference between this application and the application for a Special Permit for a church in Hawaiian Paradise Park. They seem to have very parallel issues, but the opposite conclusion was reached in those cases. I don't care who does the explaining, but I'm just curious about all of these issues. ANDREWS: Well, I can jump in first, and perhaps Michael or Jeff Darrow want to jump in on some of the other questions, but the first question you had, Commissioner Clarkson, was to distinguish between a home occupation and a—and something that is not a home occupation, a commercial business. Did I hear that correct? CLARKSON: What differentiates the home occupation which my understanding is allowed in lots of situations that are not commercially zoned versus a commercial operation. ANDREWS: Right. CLARKSON: Commercial property. ANDREWS: Both of the, the home occupation and the present application which is a non-home occupation, commercial business, they require Special Permits and they are reviewed somewhat differently though because they are different sections of the Zoning Code. There are different limitations on home occupations as far as the limitations on the occupants, the number of occupants, and the home occupation, I don't know if it was considered by the Applicants, but that would have been another path to go down. Sorry, I see Zendo's hand. Do we, do we want to—do we want to stop this discussion and have a question . RAFFIPIY: [Mr.] Clarkson, is that satisfactory to you before we move on to Zendo? CLARKSON: Well, I'd just like to cover all of my issues here before we, before Zendo comments on it. ANDREWS: Okay. CLARKSON: If you just, for the, for the explanation of the difference between home occupation and a regular commercial occupation, but I want to also find out how the application process for a second farm dwelling and, would tie in here, and also more importantly of all is what's the difference between locating this business outside of the Village Commercial area versus locating a 4,000-square foot church outside a community village area. ROY: Commissioner Clarkson, I can answer that question. For the Special Permit for the church, first of all, the church is not a commercial business. That's the big difference. Second, churches are permitted uses identified in HPP and there are a number of those established through Special Permit. HALL: Wait, the mic was [inaudible]. EXHIBIT A 9 ROY: Oh shit, the mic was in the wrong spot. So, if you couldn't hear me that the church is not a commercial business, and so that's the big difference right there. The church is, you know, a gathering place for congregates to, you know, to pursue faith-based activities, and it is not intended to be a commercial activity. CLARKSON: Yeah, my understanding after reviewing the Puna Community Development Plan is, though, that community facilities, and I assume that churches would be included, were also proposed to be concentrated in these village centers. Am I wrong there? ROY: I'm not sure. Maybe Jeff can answer that. DARROW: The Special Permit allows for these types of public community facilities to be located where they are needed in the community. So, there's specific language in the General Plan. There's specific language in the criteria for the approval of permits as well as in the community development plans, but you're gonna find facilities such as churches and schools are the ones that we see most common that come in that need to be located in particular areas in the community. They can't just be located somewhere far away from where a school " ." That seems to be the main—when it comes to the difference, you had asked the difference between this and the church, is that's the issue, is that this is more of a community facility, and people may argue well, a massage clinic is a community facility or a gas station is a community facility, or a store is a community facility. But, again, there's this difference between the commercial nature and the public facility nature of a particular use. This one, as, you know, we're getting into the discussion of home occupation. A home occupation is a step down. It's a lower type of impact on a, on an area. It's meant to be something that's operated so that the community does not know it's even there. So,that if someone drives by, they don't know that's a business. And, so, again, there could be discussion on that, but it is much more limited as far as the allowance. I think the struggle on this one was, and Michael can correct me if I'm wrong, but you're having an applicant come in wanting to build a house that is going to have to be built to commercial standards for a commercial structure with the intention to live in there until they build their dwelling. Itit just, I mean I understand, and we appreciate that they are doing it in a way that is not illegal. It's the correct process, but we are struggling with a number of factors in this. Number one, again, the main one is General Plan and CDP. Number two is, is this the appropriate location for this? We looked at this, and we struggled with that. Is this a precedence we want to set? Is this something that if we approve, that we're going to think, oh my gosh, now are we, everybody's gonna think that they can come in—and again, this isn't the primary factor, but it is a consideration that we, when we approve permits, there's always this consideration that it's not just for one person. The next person coming in will use that as a means of pressure for approval. You did it for them, why aren't you doing it for me. And, then, again, you're in the agricultural district and understandably, this area is not really known for its agricultural potential, but there is laws in place. When you build two dwellings, you have to follow a pattern. The Special Permit can take care of some of that. There's just a, there's just a number of factors with this application, and this is why, our main factor is when we look at these permits, is this the appropriate location set up by the General Plan and the community development plan. Where the community development plan really was focusing on not wanting to allow all these Special EXHIBIT A 10 Permits being located anywhere. It wanted to focus these in areas that were identified mainly in the General Plan and the, more specifically, in the community development plan. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much, Jeff. Any other questions from the—or does Zendo have something to say? KERN: Mr. Chair, yeah, it might be helpful if some dialog maybe in between this so that it'd be, that'd be great. So, the one, the challenge that came up with the home occupation, where this kind of falls underneath—it's the sequencing of permits. So, in order for them to be able to have a separate area, commercial space to operate which is important for massage and chiropractic work, it needs to be a separate space, there wouldn't be able or allowed to get a permit for the second home. Thus, we're coming in now asking for permission. The other way that would probably occur is somebody would apply for an additional farm dwelling, but they'd have to be doing ag and Orchidland isn't a very good place to do ag, so this, and under most circumstances I think this would fall underneath a home use, occupation, but the way the rules are it doesn't really work. The situation that we've gotten over many a times about the applicant's building a home, living in it, and then building their primary home and converting the existing, the front house, to commercial, and the fact that they have to make sure its up to Code and that's a problem is honestly baffling to me. We've gone back and forth on this. The Applicant is fully aware that they are taking the responsibility. If the Code changes in two years, they'll have to make changes to it. We have letters of response that were completely, completely aware, and to say that it isn't a good idea for that reason is honestly a little bit, it's a little overreaching in that regard. We could talk community development plan, etcetera, and " " I don't think this CDP helps us very much, and I think it needs some work. But, let's talk about precedence for a moment. When I sat on the Commissioner, and Commissioner Au sat on the Commission, we approved things in Puna on a case-by-case basis, and when they we rarely supported, for these very reasons. You look down the street from here, there's a car service there on the corner of this street. They do safety checks, servicing. Down HPP, there is a convenience store. There's other car servicing places. Ainaloa Boulevard had a convenience store approved there. So, if you wanna talk precedence, precedence has already been set. I think it comes down to a Special Permit on a case-by-case basis—does this make sense? Then, you look at a church. Church isn't necessarily defined as commercial, but it does generate a lot of activity. Where do you draw the line between community service for health and the church? I know there is a line drawn there, but they, but it's slightly gray. This would be a different story if this was a store selling products, selling shirts. I don't think this is going to be a place that's going to have a huge signage and we're going to draw people in from the highway. These people come, their clients come on a, you know, by appointment. So, it's very, very, very, very similar to home use, home occupation. It's just how do you get that separation to have, you know, the sequencing of the permits. That's all. Thank you. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much. Thank you. Any other questions from the Commission? I don't see anyI don't hear anything. EXHIBIT A 11 KERN: Commissioner Au and Jeff DarrowI guess I can see different ones than you can, Mr. Chairman. RAFFIPIY: Okay. KERN: Commissioner Au and RAFFIPIY: Commissioner Au and then after Commissioner Au, Commissioner Aguinaldo after. AU: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can you guys hear me okay? RAFFIPIY: Okay, now, okay. AU: Okay, I'll try and talk slow. Gil, maybe your connection is not that good. LEY: Dean, can you speak up a bit? You're a little quiet. AU: Can you hear me now? So, the question I have is, I notice that there is only two testimonies for this Applicant, and they were two positive testimonies. Six, okay, maybe I gotta look through my notes a little bit better. Was there any comments from the Orchidland neighborhood association? ANDREWS: I can speak to that. There were not, no. AU: So, Mr. Kern or Ms. Imagire, did you guys approach the neighborhood association, or have they made any comments, or is there any conversation or discussion with the association? KERN: On our end, there hasn't been any comments. We know the road is getting improved, the Orchidland association is kind of split between two factions with a lot of issues in there, it could be really challenging. Dierdre, do you want to add to that? D. IMAGIRE: When we were first in the process in buying this lot, we did contact the Orchidland Community Association. I'm not sure which one we spoke to, but we spoke to a man who goes by the name of"Mongo" and he seemed like, he was like good luck, you know? It wasn't a real formal, you know, approaching the association, but we actually have patients that sit on the association, so . AU: Mr. Chair, could I do a follow-up question as well? RAFFIPIY: Go ahead, Mr. Au. AU: So, has there been any communication with any association around that area? KERN: I'll have EXHIBIT A 12 ANDREWS: I don't know of any. Maybe the Applicant should speak to that. KERN: Yeah, I'll have to follow up. I'm not sure. I know, like I said, I know Dierdre talked to them. I'd have to follow up to see if we did the direct, direct response to them. AU: Okay, because I understand that there is, there is the HPP association. There's other associations around the area, so I just was wondering if they chimed in to your application or not. RAFFIPIY: Thank you, Mr. Au. Anything else Mr. Au? Okay, Commissioner Aguinaldo? AGUINALDO: Mr. Au's questionoh, can you guys hear me now? So,to answer Dean Au's question, I have a close friend that lives in Orchidland, Auli`i Street. The problem they are having is like HPP. There is controversy on their boards. Orchidland has "I'm the association" and another one says, "I'm the association." So, there is a lot of people claiming that they are the association board, so it's uncertain for the Applicant and the Applicant's representative. And for me is that I look at, I read the square footage. The building is small enough, 576 square feet, okay? It's small. They want to make the treatment room that is a hundred square feet and to me, it's a small structure. I know, I looked up when Jeff was talking about—and the Applicant's representative looked under occupation, and I Googled it, right? I wanted to know more about it, and so which I did, and it says, "A home occupation is a gainful occupation or profession conducted by persons residing on the premises which they will build a home and conduct it entirely within the dwelling or its accessory building." So,this could, could it be considered as an accessory building? And, I see their wanting to within per day a minimum of, if I'm understanding this correctly, 15 to 20 applicants, and when we talk about road, I'm familiar. You cannot fool me. I'm familiar with the area as well. It's paved but actually HALL: Sorry, I just have to chime in. Is there a question `cause this is AGUINALDO: Oh, sorry HALL: time for commissioner questions. AGUINALDO: Yeah, sorry. HALL: We'll have discussion once a motion is made. AGUINALDO: Okay, sorry. HALL: Thank you. AGUINALDO: SoI'm good. RAFFIPIY: Thank you. Mr. Clarkson? EXHIBIT A 13 CLARKSON: Yes, I would like to ask the Applicant or their representative whether they would be willing to operate without any signage whatsoever since all of your applications are going to be from continuing patients by appointment only. Would you be willing to conduct business without a sign out front? KERN: I will let Deirdre speak to that. I would say let'sMs. Imagire, are you there? D. IMAGIRE: Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't think that my husband and I have given really much thought to signage. I think it'd be nice if we could have a sign, but if that was the hang up, you know, I don't think that we would need one. You're absolutely right. Our patients are going to know it's us. Some of our patients live within walking distance. We'll tell them it's the one with the new fence and whatever kind of tree out front, and that,that's fine. So, we can meet, we can certainly be flexible if that's what the Commission wants. RAFFIPIY: Thank you. Any other questions? KERN: Chime in onok, I'll just add two cents so that perhaps a condition where the sign was significantly smaller, cause my only concern is that just somebody finding the place to avoid them having to drive further up the street and turn around. So, it's the signage from an advertisement standpoint. It would be hey, you're at the right place, home. RAFFIPIY: Thank you. Mr. Aguinaldo? You have to unmute. Mr. Aguinaldo, you have to unmute. AGUINALDO: Okay, I'm sorry. I just have a question for the Applicant and the Applicant's representative to chime in with one of our Commissioners, Joe, is yes, relating to the sign. If they're willing not to put a sign but their physical address and based on the drawing, the schematic drawing, what their future plan is, instead of making the driveway so up front, would it be possible turning the driveway along the future driveway so there's one entrance, and put, you know, some kind of barrier, landscaping in the front? So, kind of keep it more on the ag/residential feel on that? And, for the sign, on the, on the little structure,that will also help designate it in the right place, because I'm assuming you will have to put a physical address or, in front of your property just for mail or for emergency purposes. RAFFIPIY: Go ahead, Ms. Imagire. D. IMAGIRE: Yeah, certainly open to having small signage on the fence, whether that says "Chiropractor"or it says "Back to Basics Chiropractic" or if it just says our address. With regards to the driveway, the reason that we have a big driveway like that is because the Fire Department wanted to be able to bring a truck in even though they agreed that our by the time they get there, the house will be burned down, they still want a big driveway. So,that's, that's why we have the big driveway for the business. And then on the side is the driveway for the private residence, and there's a, it's done in a way in terms of the way the land is cleared so that it's separate. So, we—we don't have people, patients accidentally driving down towards our house. They're gonna know that the, they're gonna see okay this is the way in, the building is right there and very obvious where they, where they're supposed to go. EXHIBIT A 14 RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much. KERN: And to that note, Commissioner Aguinaldo, potentially the, you know, landI see what you're getting at,to have that, you know that separation, the landscaping I think would be very acceptable. We've done a lot of due diligence as far as trying to make sure that we're gonna keep the, be able to meet Code, thus, the drive-through situation, and Fire is always tricky, but landscaping? That could be a good solution. RAFFIPIY: Thank you. Commissioner Replogle? REPLOGLE: More a comment than acan you hear me? More a comment than a question. I don't think they should be put in a position of not putting up a sign. They're not going to put up the golden arches or anything like that, so, but a sign would be important for ambulances, fire, emergency, family coming for some reason. I don't see the operation as something that's going to have Las Vegas lights or anything. Thank you. RAFFIPIY: Thank you, Mr. Replogle. Any other questions from the Commission? KERN: Mr. Chair, I'm not sure if everybody got,but we did receive, there was six testimonies, and I know four, I think made it on time, and two didn't, and they were all in support. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much. Commissioner Clarkson? CLARKSON: Yes, I'd like to go back to the signage issue a bit, and the only reason I am concentrating on this is " " is the difference between a home business and a public commercial business, are there rules for signage for home businesses? Are they allowed to post a signage that says, you know, so and so psychotherapy or so and so acupuncturist" " ANDREWS: I would probably have to defer to Jeff Darrow. I don't think there are signage requirements specifically stating in, for home occupation versus this type of permit application. I mean, the Sign Code would, of course, have to be followed, which is Chapter 3 of the County Code " "but as far as distinguishing home occupation, I don't think it specifically speaks to that. DARROW: It's a—cops, sorry. [Mr. Darrow raised his hand to speak.] RAFFIPIY: Go ahead, Jeff. DARROW: Thank you. I think it does speak to it, so we need to look at the home occupation section, that's 25-4-7 I believe, oh no, that's B&B. It's right in that area right there, and I think it purposely limited no signage, and the reason again is so that people did not know that there was a business. With that being said, this is not following your typical home occupation process which was set up to be in residential zones, and they come in for a home occupation declaration. This is a Special Permit that has flexibility on conditions. There have been Special Permits that come in, in the past, I mean, I'm sorry—if this was a Special Permit for a home occupation, it EXHIBIT A 15 can be flexible including signage. It can be allowed one sign or a size limit on it or whatever it is. My recommendation is going forward that if the Commission is actually entertaining this direction, this permit was not for that request, so, and it would be a difficult thing to try to take this request and turn it into something else. There may be, the Applicants may disagree with that, but there are distinct differences between the two requests. So, it might be a better thing that if the Commission feels more comfortable with that,that there be a readjustment on the permit application coming in. That's my thoughts. Thank you. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much, Mr. Darrow. Any other questions? ROY: Commissioner? DARROW: Alexis asking RAFFIPIY: Go ahead, Alex. ROY: Section 25-4-13, Home Occupation, (b)(2)—of the Hawaii County Code, "No exterior signs, symbols, displays, or advertisements relating to the home occupation shall be displayed, nor shall any interior signs be visible from the public view." RAFFIPIY: Thank you. Mr. Aguinaldo? AGUINALDO: Mr. oh, can you guys hear me? Mr. Commissioner, I have again chiming back to the Applicant and the Applicant's representative, that's the reason why I was indicating if they're willing, if the building was sideways because like what County staff, Alex, indicated about the signage, is visible for people. If they enter your property, the only visibility they will see is by entering your driveway and looking to make sure, and it's going to be the Applicant's responsibility if they don't want it to drive to their home, put a gate there, you know? So,there's many means of ways of separating, you know, what you guys are trying to achieve. But,to please Fire, that is correct. You have to have means of access for the Fire truck and ambulance in and out. You have a wide enough property, it is actually 232 feet, point 32 is enough to, you know, adjust your buildings the other way, you know, instead of going that angle, you know, it'sif you go the other way. Just a thought. RAFFIPIY: Thank you. Who I get now—Ms. Imagire? D. IMAGIRE: Yeah, we already have gates in place for the two fire, required fire entrances for the business side, and a gate for the private driveway, so that,the whole thing is fenced right now. The angle of the building is actually a little bit more, a little bit less angle than what's on the drawing. It's slightly tilted more, so actually would be fine to put a sign on the building. I think that's a fine recommendation if that's what the council wants. If they prefer from the fence, putting a small sign on the fence, to putting a small sign on the building so people actually have to drive in past the landscaping, which I definitely want to have. Once they're in the driveway which is, if they got the wrong business, a nice way to turn around, they can see on the building. That's totally fine. EXHIBIT A 16 AGUINALDO: Thank you. KERN: Just to add to that. I think there's some, obviously some flexibility. I don't think this completely falls under the home occ, and that's why it's a Special Permit to give that flexibility to refine this down so it's the, you know, minimal impact. You know,the positive impact that it will bring and does bring, so I think some conditions in that regard could certainly help mitigate any of those concerns. Maybe small signage than what's allowed and, you know, Chapter 3, something in that regard, but I think as you can tell, the Applicant is very reasonable. AGUINALDO: I yield. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much. Any other questions from the Commission? Any further discussion? Did the Commission get, were able to read the testimonies, the public testimonies? [Commissioner Aguinaldo showed a "thumbs up. 'J RAFFIPIY: Mr. Clarkson, did you have any question? CLARKSON: So, we're going to go into discussion of this prior to a motion or do we wait to discuss when there's a motion for action? RAFFIPIY: Well HALL: Hi, this is Malia Hall. Can you get, could each Commissioner verbally confirm that they're read the testimony, please? Public testimony? RAFFIPIY: I did. CLARKSON: Yes. REPLOGLE: I did not. AU: Yes, I did. I found it on my phone. HALL: Okay, then we need to take a recess then for Mr. Replogle to read the testimony then so that we can move on after that. RAFFIPIY: Yeah, let's take a five-minute recess to allow Commissioner Replogle to read the public testimony. Thank you very much. Chairman Rafpiy called a recess at 10:09 a.m. to allow Commissioner Replogle additional time to read public testimony concerning the subject application. The meeting was reconvened at 10:17 a.m. RAFFIPIY: All, okay, thank you very much, the Windward Planning Commission is reconvened. Mr. Replogle, did you have a chance to read the public testimonies? EXHIBIT A 17 REPLOGLE: Yes. RAFFIPIY: Thank you. Any other questions before we get into a motion for action? Okay, no questions at this time. Commissioners, I need a motion for action. CLARKSON: I'd like to make a motion. RAFFIPIY: Mr. Clarkson, go ahead. CLARKSON: Yes, I'd like " "the application for a Special Permit Docket No. 19-000212 be approved subject to the following conditions. One that there be a single driveway for access to and from the lot;that the parking area be screened from `Ilima Street by extensive landscaping; and three, that no signage be erected from " " owners and the street address; and four, that all patients or customers, depending on the treatment,be by appointment only. HALL: Sorry, Malia Hall, coming in. Those are conditions but we need reasons for approval. So, if you're going against the recommendation the Director made, you just state the reasons. CLARKSON: Yes, my reason is thatI'm hearing somebody's phone. [There was a brief interruption of a ringing phone.] DARROW: I think this is the only one muted, Joe, I mean unmuted— CLARKSON: Well, okay, I don't know, I heard somebody's phone. My basic reason is that I see this kind of business as far closer to being a home occupation than other kinds of commercial activities that involve advertising their presence to people passing by on the road and having a very public parking lot and, you know, extensive access from highways. So, that's the reason why I do it. I understand the concern over compliance with the Puna Community Development Plan and the General Plan, but because of the very low-key nature of this kind of business, I think it qualifies personally to be permitted under the Special Permit process to the kinds of conditions that would make it extremely unobtrusive and not obvious that it's a commercial facility. Those are my reasons. AU: I second that, Mr. Chair. RAFFIPIY: Special Permit Docket No. 19-000212 be approved based on the reasons that Mr. Clarkson stated. AU: Mr. Chair, I second it. RAFFIPIY: Seconded by Mr. Au. At this time, is there any further, any discussion on this? ANDREWS: Chair Raffipiy, we have some hands being raised by Jeff Darrow and the Applicant. EXHIBIT A 18 RAFFIPIY: Mr. Darrow, go ahead. DARROW: Just going forward, so we do have the reasons, we have some conditions that are being proposed. I know that the Applicant may have a concern regarding some of those conditions. One of them may be the single driveway access. There might be a requirement by Fire to have possibly a, you know,two, I'm not sure, but it might be good to just going forward to see if those are actually able to be complied with. And, it might be good if you're okay with—Commissioner Clarkson, if staff could possibly ask that other conditions may be added that are normal conditions of approval that we add in. Usually, there's a time condition. There's applicability to all County, State, Federal laws, rules, codes,those kinds of things, and maybe any other, so that the conditions of approval are more complete. That's just a thought going forward. Thank you. CLARKSON: Yes, I would agree with that. You know, there's usually a whole list of conditions that go with any approval in addition to the specific ones that I brought up. As far as the compliance with Fire Department regulations, it can be checked out, but I'm pretty sure that if the turning radius is at the "T" off of the driveway back to the rear house are adequate, that a and there's a turnaround at the buildingI don't even think there will have to be a turnaround at the building. I think the "T" off of the main driveway back to the final dwelling would be sufficient, but this is just based on my knowledge of a recent building permit application and Fire Department requirements on my property, so, it's just my two cents. AU: Here, a, Commissioner Au . RAFFIPIY: Commissioner Au, go ahead. AU: So, to be fair to the Applicant, what Mr. Darrow, what Mr. Darrow was saying is that, you know, every time a Special Permit is approved, there is a, there's a list of—and to be fair to the Applicant, the Applicant should be able to review those conditions rather than us just saying,just approving this application. So, my request to Commissioner Clarkson is somehow let's, let's give the Applicant a chance to see the proposed conditions rather than just approving it outright. Maybe can we get some guidance from Malia on this? Or I could be wrong. RAFFIPIY: Malia? HALL: Yes? Sorry? RAFFIPIY: Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Dean. AU: So, Malia, I had a question that, you know, we're potentially going to approve this Special Permit, and you know, we usually have a set of conditions so should it be fair for the Applicant to review the whole criteria and the list of these conditions rather than me and Mr., me and Commissioner Clarkson approving the motion with the conditions? I mean, how would you advise us to move forward? Cause Jeff kind of hit it right on the nail. Moving forward, we need to set conditions. EXHIBIT A 19 HALL: I think that if you guys are leaning towards—well, the motion on the floor is an approval. If that motion is successful, then, yes, I think that we should continue the meeting, this agenda item, to the next hearing, so that the staff can prepare conditions. The Applicant can review those conditions and then we could have that discussion at the next Commission meeting when the Findings of Fact and, were also revised to show an approval, not a denial, and then we can go over those as a Commission and with the Applicant. RAFFIPIY: So, a question, Malia, so with that, do we modify, do we amend the motion on the floor to, for continuance, or we can go ahead and approve it with conditions that will be stated today or they'll review the conditions that we'll provide to them? HALL: Yeah, I think it would be better to continue first before approval just so that we, we can review the conditions and the Applicant is okay with the conditions, and then that way, everybody is on the same page, than approved without conditions and then it can get a little messy. But, Joe has his hand up, so you can go to him and see what he would like to do with his motion. RAFFIPIY: Thank you, Malia. Mr. Clarkson? CLARKSON: Yes, I'm just looking at the proposed motions that were sent to us prior to this meeting and for this application, there was to be a two-step process, approval and then if the motion to approve passes, I move that the adoption of written findings of fact, conclusions of law, and decision and order with conditions of approval be continued to the next scheduled meeting. So, I don't think that we should go through all the work of coming up with a set of conditions before we have a passed motion for approval. A motion for approval has to happen before anybody goes to any work of putting the conditions on the approval in my opinion. RAFFIPIY: Thank you, Mr. Clarkson. Are there any other, any other comment, Malia? HALL: No, no comment this time. The Commission is free to move forward as it sees fit. DARROW: Chair Raffipiy, Commissioner Replogle is raising his hand. RAFFIPIY: Mr. Replogle, go ahead. REPLOGLE: I was raising my hand because Ms. Imagire has been raising her hand for a while, and she might have something to add to this. D. IMAGIRE: Well, I can't, I can't speak to how you guys proceed, but I would appreciate the approval and continuance to, so we can just double check with the Fire Department about the driveway. I wish my husband was on the call cause he's the one that spoke to them directly. I believe they were aware of the location and the width of the street in terms of the turning radius, and they did specify, they wanted a 20-foot wide U-shaped driveway for their fire trucks, so, you know, if we continue to another meeting, we can probably even get, you know, in writing and submit that to the Commissioners so they can see exactly what the guidelines we've been given by the Fire Department regarding the driveway so we can be in compliance. EXHIBIT A 20 RAFFIPIY: Thank you, Mr. Imagire. Any other further discussion from the board, the Commission? There is no further discussion. Staff, would you please do the roll call vote? ANDREWS: Yes, we, I want to make sureI see a hand raised. I'm sorry, I don't want to jumpI see Commissioner Replogle. REPLOGLE: I want to make sure I know what I'm voting for. ANDREWS: Okay, I'm going to verify that as well. Commissioner Clarkson has moved and then to make sure that I'm confirming that I heard this right that you want to approve the application with future conditions to be added. Is that correct? CLARKSON: That's correct, with the future conditions to be added after a continuance to have those conditions, but my motion for approval does include conditions that would affect my vote for approval. So, even though there will be a lot of conditions that are, I don't want to say pro forma standard conditions having to do with time limits and other issues that would go with any other Special Permit approval. I do want to make sure that conditions about the driveway, and I'll be willing to reconsider that further, but as of now,that there be a single driveway, that the parking area be screened from the street, and that there be no signage other than the location and the names of the owners as typical for a single-family residence, and that all the customers/clients be, come to the property by appointment only. Those were the four conditions that I see as being important for my motion, in my vote for approval of the Special Permit, and the reasons for those conditions, as our counsel has asked for, is to make sure that even though this is not a permit for a home occupation, that it be "—"to a, having the appearance of a home occupation under the permit. ANDREWS: Commissioner Au is raising his hand. RAFFIPIY: Commissioner Au, go ahead. AU: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe what we need to dosorry, can you guys hear me, okay? So, Malia, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what we need to do is we need to number one, approve the Special Permit. That's the first thing we need to do. The second thing we need to do is we need to make a second motion to add conditions with the findings of facts, conclusion of law. Is that correct, Malia? Is that what we need to do? HALL: That's correct, but I think the one thing that is giving me pause is the fact that Commissioner Clarkson is saying his approval is based on these conditions, and if his conditions are contrary to the Fire Code, then we have an issue, right? So, I think that if instead those, these conditions are worded to where, you know, instead of they have to have this one, one driveway and all that kind of stuff, I think it needs to be more to the language of like it needs to—if it's consistent, you know, one driveway, if it's consistent with the Fire Code. I think that would be more acceptable. If not, we could have a, you know, you guys want these four conditions and then we add a couple more conditions next week, I mean next month, and it could be a little messy, so, yes you guys can do it that way procedurally. You can approve the permit now, and EXHIBIT A 21 then adopt conditions later, but you guys are now approving with conditions and then adding conditions. I don't know, I think you guys gotta choose one. You either approve the permit as is and then add conditions next month or continue to add the conditions and then approve next month. So,those, I think are the cleaner options. RAFFIPIY: Mr. Au? AU: What I recommend, Commissioner Clarkson, is maybe you just, we just approve, a motion to approve a Special Permit and state your reasons, and then we make another motion, somebody on the board, on the Commission make another motion, and we'll let the Applicant and the Planning Department hash out the conditions, and then, when it gets brought to us at the next meeting, if we chose to, Commissioner Clarkson, we can amend certain conditions. I think it might be cleaner that way, and I did see Director Yee raise his hand, and Malia, can you chime in? CLARKSON: Let me, let me just speak to that please as the person who made the motion. I'm perfectly okay with that. I just wanted to make sure staff, we're going to have to approve, if this motion to approve the permit passes, at a subsequent meeting, we're going to have to approve the findings of fact, conclusions of law, and decision and order so that, and that would be at a later meeting. We can always hash out the, whether or not the conditions that are presented to us at that time, are sufficient for our continued approval, but I, so I just wanted to make sure that everybody understood when those findings of fact and conclusions of law and the decision was written up that these were important to me, and if they were not "—"in those findings, that I would be unlikely to approve them. So, I'm willing to let it slide until the next meeting or whatever meeting we consider and just go for a straight up/down vote now. But,please be aware that my only motivation for moving for approval is based on conditions that make this look like a home occupation. RAFFIPY: Thank you. Mr. Kern, you have anything to contribute to the Commission's discussion? KERN: Yeah, yeah thank you, Mr. Chair. Procedurally wise, I think we're, you know, either way is fine. I think the Applicant is agreeable with those four conditions, with the only exception just making sure that we can meet Fire, that's the, you know, Fire Code. I think that is critical. So, if we move forward with the up or down vote now to work out the conditions prior to the next meeting, I think as long as we all work on that in good faith based on what's laid out there and those four that Commissioner Clarkson brought forth are in there with the other more standard housekeeping kind of conditions, I think that we'd all be in agreement with that. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mrs. Imagire. RAFFIPIY: Thank you. Any other further discussion before we go, move into a vote? ANDREWS: Director Yee has his hand up. RAFFIPIY: Mr. Yee, go ahead. EXHIBIT A 22 YEE: Can you hear me? So, yes, you could go ahead and vote for approval, and we can monkey with the conditions by next month, but I prefer that we just go for a continuance. Let's work on the conditions and bring it back next month. That would be more acceptable to me given that this was an unfavorable on my part, I'd like the time to be able to make sure we're sitting down with the staff to craft all those conditions and not try to make it all up on the fly so you all see what they are, the Applicant sees what they are, and we come in with an agreement hopefully at the next meeting that you can then approve, the permit. It is based on good faith and given this conversation, I would proceed with that good faith to do so, but that's my recommendation. Jeff, I see Jeff's hand up. RAFFIPIY: Jeff, go ahead. DARROW: Just a thought. I know there's been, I know concern of Commissioner Clarkson is that if we come back "—"vote again for final findings, my understanding, and Malia can chime in on this is, we prepared a findings of fact for the denial recommendation with the understanding that we may end up going to some sort of legal proceeding. In cases like this in the past where we've "—"our recommendation, we just come back with the Commission with a revised Background and Recommendation, and it's just like any other Special Permit that we do. So, the Commission gets the revised Background and Recommendation, and at the next meeting, they vote on it. If they want to adjust conditions in there, we can on the floor, we can adjust it, but once that's done, it's done and approved. Just a thought. My thought is that we don't need to be thinking about a findings of fact, conclusions of law, decision and order versus our simple Background and Recommendation approval. CLARKSON: I'm willing to withdraw my motion on the request of the Director if the Applicants are willing to continue and take this matter up after consulting with the Planning Department. RAFFIPIY: Go ahead, Mr. Kern. KERN: Thank you. Yeah, I, you know,personally, I feel like we, there's a general meetings of the mind here to what we're trying to work with, so I'm okay with doing that and coming back with those conditions hashed out as long as it stays within the, you know,the context that we all spoke about, I think, I personally don't see a problem with that. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much. Mr. Replogle, do you have your hands up? REPLOGLE: Yes, agree with—yes, I agree with—am I on mute? RAFFIPIY: Yes, now you're muted. REPLOGLE: Okay, I agree with what Mr. Darrow said we should "—"it's simple, it's clean. We're all on the same page, and worse-case scenario the Imagire's could hang a skeleton in their driveway. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much. So, Mr. Clarkson, would you want to amend your motion? EXHIBIT A 23 CLARKSON: I think at this point from what I gathered, I am just withdrawing my motion, and the—or do we need a motion for continuance? ANDREWS: Yes, we do. CLARKSON: I move to continue hearing of this application until a subsequent meeting after which time the Applicant and the Planning Department have been able to work on a recommendation and proposed conditions. RAFFIPIY: It's been moved. Any second? ANDREWS: Seconded byGilbert, you're muted. REPLOGLE: Second. AGUINALDO: I second, Commissioner Aguinaldo. RAFFIPIY: All right, it's been moved and seconded by, moved by Mr. Clarkson, seconded by Mr. Aguinaldo that we put this into continuance until such time when the Applicant and the Planning Department can work out the conditions. Any further discussion? All right, at this time, can the staff please do the roll call vote. ANDREWS: Yes, I'll take the roll call vote for the move to continue or defer the application. Commissioner Clarkson? CLARKSON: Aye. ANDREWS: Commissioner Aguinaldo? AGUINALDO: Aye. ANDREWS: Commissioner Au? AU: Aye. ANDREWS: Commissioner, Chairsorry, Commissioner Replogle? REPLOGLE: Aye. ANDREWS: And Chair Raffipiy? RAFFIPIY: Aye. ANDREWS: The motion passes five, zero. EXHIBIT A 24 RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much. You will be notified of the Commission's decision in writing. KERN: Mr. Chair, I want to say thank you all so much for your thoughtful consideration, the dialogue, the time during this challenging time, and I'm just wishing you the very best, and we'll see you next month. RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much, Mr. Kern and Ms. Imagire. The discussion ended at 10:45 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Sarah Y. Hata-Finley, Secretary Windward Planning Commission EXHIBIT A 25