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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2020-06-24 Meeting Minutes ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAIʻI MEETING MINUTES Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:01 a.m. to 12:03 p.m. (online meeting via Zoom videoconferencing) Commissioners present: Justin Pequeño, Chair Georjean Adams John Burns Melissa Cardwell Dee Fulton Rick Gaffney Lee McIntosh Staff present: William Kucharski, Director Diana Mellon-Lacey, Deputy Corporation Counsel Mary Fujio, Secretary Others present: Jerome Warren, Sandra Demoruelle, Steve Holmes, Rick Bennett, Nancy Cook- Lauer, Michael Last. 1. CALL TO ORDER Chair Pequeño called the meeting to order at 9:01 a.m. and asked Lee McIntosh, the newest commissioner, to introduce himself. Commissioner McIntosh said he learned of the opening and felt he had some ideas that could help the county address trash issues such as recycling. He previously served on the Cost of Government Commission, which had some recommendations he could bring forward to the EMC. He is a landscaper by trade and has several artistic hobbies. He hopes to be an asset and bring some different ideas to the commission. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF MAY 27, 2020 Motion and second: Commissioner Adams moved to approve the minutes, and Commissioner Gaffney seconded the motion. Discussion: Commissioner Fulton said the clarification Commissioner Gaffney provided on her motion to send a letter requesting that private entities be invited to discuss a public- private partnership for wastewater treatment at Kealakehe did not get included in the revised motion. In discussing how to correct this, it was determined that she could amend or clarify the motion when the subject was discussed again at today’s meeting. Chair Pequeño said a correction was needed on page 9, first paragraph, where it should say “at this time” rather than “as this time.” Motion, second, and vote: Commissioner Gaffney moved to approve the minutes as corrected by Chair Pequeño, Commissioner Burns seconded the motion, and all commissioners voted aye. 3. STATEMENT FROM THE CHAIR Chair Pequeño encouraged the commissioners to follow the news on the County of Hawaiʻi vs Hawaiʻi Wildlife Fund, as it is an important topic with far reaching impacts for the island, the government, businesses, and even individuals. He thanked them for keeping up with safe practices in regard to the coronavirus, as the island and state are doing better than many others. Lastly, his hope is that DEM and EMC can engage in difficult conversations together and do what is right and pono. 4. PUBLIC STATEMENTS Chair Pequeño noted that Sandra Demoruelle had provided written testimony and indicated she prefers to testify earlier. Sandra Demoruelle: Regarding the Nāālehu and Pāhala ʻwastewater projects, she was astonished to see there was no mention in the director’s report of the federal lawsuit that was filed on April 6, which is challenging the adequacy of the EA and requiring an EIS be done. However, she is really concerned because the sewage lines are as defective as they were back in 2007. The markings are on the road where the lines are to go, but they never got put in. People in Nāālehu and Pāhala areʻ seeing sewer leaks in their yards, on the ground, and into the drainage canals that go out to the sea. It looks like it will be past 2027 before the lines get put in. The leaks get patched up, but it will not be satisfactory for much longer. She thanked Commissioner McIntosh for stepping up to serve on the commission. Jerome Warren: Regarding water shut-off for non-payment of sewer bills, gang cesspools are illegal under federal law. People who are on them must not be threatened to have their water shut off, and Hawaiʻi County should be investigated for malfeasance surrounding the Nāālehu sewer project. For future agenda items, abandoned vehicles should ʻ be listed. The registered owner of the vehicle should be made to pay the towing charge. If the owner does not pay, then the DMV should not allow the renewal of their vehicle registration until the towing charge is paid, and they should be charged an administrative fee. He would 2 like to see this idea brought forward. He had a sewer spill in his yard and lives next to an illegal junkyard. People are repairing illegal vehicles on the street. This is what people in low income neighborhoods suffer from, and it ties in to the Department of Environmental Management. 5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS a. Continued discussion on alternative uses for waste (i.e., waste-to-energy, reclaimed water, etc.) Commissioner Adams spoke about advanced recycling, which is about recapturing polymers that are present in recycled products. There are a couple of different technologies to do this, with the end result being individual pieces that can be used to make new polymers equivalent to virgin material. There is a lot of research going into this and pilot projects being done. A big question is whether a project can be scaled for this island. There is a lot of money being poured into these technologies, which are to try to get the plastics back from the environment and divert them from the landfill. What is referred to as a “closed loop” is necessary, which is having all the components of the business cycle collect the materials, transport them to a place that can treat them, recover them, and get them to manufacturers of new products. The new products then get into the market, get used, and are captured again for recycling. She sent them earlier a link to the Closed Loop report, in case they want to dive deeper into this. Director Kucharski said he had a discussion with Riley Saito, the deputy director at Research and Development, about alternatives to the use of the current waste stream. Though the COVID pandemic has been slowing everything down, the first public-private partnership procurement in the state is in the process of being finalized. The contract is regarding electric vehicles—providing them, having charging stations, and repairing them—and it will be a prototype for public-private partnership agreements and could be used in a contract for our county, such as one to look at different processes to try and minimize the amount of waste that goes into our landfill. Further discussion was had on how public-private partnerships could benefit the county. Director Kucharski said one complication is the Konno decision, which prohibits the state and counties from contracting out work that is customarily done by civil servants. Issues need to be sorted out so there is no Procurement Code violation. Chair Pequeño said this a discussion on public-private partnerships would be placed on the next agenda. Further comments and statements were made: • Director Kucharski would like alternative uses for waste to remain on the agenda. The main issue involves procurement. • Commissioner Cardwell would like to learn more about the procurement process, and it should be on the agenda. Ms. Mellon-Lacey said the county’s 3 Procurement Code follows the state and is contained in Chapter 103D of the Hawaiʻi Revised Statutes. • Commissioner Adams asked about the status of Puna Precious Plastics, and Commissioner Cardwell said she heard it has shut down during the pandemic. She will find out the status and report back at the next meeting. • Chair Pequeño was curious about what mechanisms the county has in terms of supporting or initiating new business development in the area of alternative uses for waste. • Director Kucharski clarified that the county is not a recycler. It facilitates the recycling sites and has contracts with private entities for the actual recycling. The county has a relatively small waste stream, considering the size of investments that would need to be made. The demographics make it difficult to come up with a cost-effective recycling program, and we don’t have the infrastructure or population to support major investment. We have to be careful what we do, evaluate what we have, and come up with cost-effective solutions. • Commissioner Adams said one reason she tracks alternative recycling technologies is to see if they could be scaled to a smaller operation that could work on the island. • Chair Pequeño said a way to encourage that type of business needs to be found, and he wondered if DEM should pursue working with R&D on this. Commissioner Adams pointed out that Councilmember Richards’ resolution was about coming up with ideas with R&D and DEM for using waste and generating energy, and he wanted to see what innovative ideas they could come up with. • Director Kucharski said smaller systems are being looked at, and he would like to see them go from waste to hydrogen. If these kinds of opportunities are to be encouraged, he feels that fiscal support from the state could possibly be in the form of tax credits a company could use. The county’s only income stream is from property tax, with some TAT and GET monies from the state. He firmly believes our county needs to be sustainable. It is doable, but the right way needs to be found. • Commissioner Gaffney said a problem with electronics recycling here is that the only take-back provisions are Oʻahu-centric. He reached out to Rep. David Tarnas, suggesting he look into how take-back provisions can be applied to the Big Island. • Commissioner Burns said it would be interesting to learn how the experimental hydrogen production facility at NELHA is doing. Chair Pequeño said he would table this agenda item for the next meeting and suggested the commissioners do some research on these different issues. b. Continued discussion on U.S. Supreme Court ruling on County of Maui vs. Hawaiʻi Wildlife Fund and report of subcommittee’s draft letter to the Director and County Council regarding solutions for reclaimed water. 4 Director Kucharski said he read the minutes of the last meeting, and it is his opinion some of the commissioners’ comments do not accurately reflect the Supreme Court’s decision. He gave a slide presentation about the lawsuit and the stages it has gone through, from the U.S. District Court of Hawaiʻi to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court, and back to the Ninth Circuit Court. The basic issue is whether Maui, which pumps its R-1 water into ground water through four injection wells, is discharging a pollutant to navigable waters, which would require an NPDES permit. The Supreme Court did not make a firm yes or no decision. It vacated the Ninth Circuit Court decision and remanded the case for further proceedings. The current situation is that Maui County is back in discussions with the State Department of Health and U.S. EPA on how to determine whether an NPDES permit is required. Commissioners made statements that discharges from the Kealakehe sump go directly to the harbor, but there is no actual proof of that in his opinion. It could be at the harbor, or it could be a mile off-shore. There is no way of knowing for sure, at least with the current data. It is also unknown when NPDES permits are required. For the county and major operators, it is just an issue of treatment and discharge. It is not something that is going to make or break the county or any of the private operators. The Wastewater Division is checking on having a tracer study done to determine where the discharge is and the concentration. They are also looking at other private entities to attempt to do tracer studies, first in Kealakehe and then at the two injection wells. On the status of the R-1 project in Kealakehe, the design has been put on hold primarily because the discharge standards that must be met are unknown at this time. It is not known whether the standards will have to be modified from what they are currently to meet the requirements of an NPDES permit should one be required. The rules for R-1 water require a 100% capacity to discharge the full amount of the R-1 produced, and whether an NPDES permit will be required or a permit by rule is not yet known. However, work is continuing on designing and permitting the distribution lines. They are being held up on the cultural review due to SHPD understaffing. Commissioner Fulton invited Steve Holmes to comment. Steve Holmes: Regarding the lawsuit, the remand from the Ninth Circuit actually went to Judge Mollway at the District Court. For water recycling, an NPDES permit will only be needed if the water is discharged into recreational waters. The receiving waters belong to the National Park Service. A U.S. Geological Survey study showed the flows from the sump were coming into the back of the marina at Honokōhau Harbor and then flowing from there out into the ocean. There will be problems in getting an NPDES permit because the receiving waters have endangered species that are federally listed. There is also a fish recovery area. There will be unique designations to deal with, unlike the Hilo WWTP and its outfall pipe. Another issue is that there is too much salt water infiltration into the collection system. This has been known for years but is still not under control. If recycled water is to be sold, a plan is needed today that addresses the infiltration. If millions of dollars are being spent to upgrade to R-1, it seems reasonable to get cost recovery through recycling, which is part of the whole concept of 5 recycling. Regarding the dye study, it would only be done if an NPDES permit is to be pursued. There is potential for onsite and offsite storage, and doing so would prevent the need to discharge into the old sump. DEM will be facing significant issues if it goes the NPDES permit route, and in the meantime is facing legal exposure. Commissioner Fulton said the county every day is potentially subject to a $55,000 per day fine because it is in violation of the Clean Water Act, and the Supreme Court decision supported that. There is a tremendous amount of scientific data that shows the harbor is receiving enormous amounts of county pollution. She invited Dr. Rick Bennett to comment. Dr. Rick Bennett: He has reviewed about 13 distinct peer reviewed scientific publications that provide a preponderance of evidence to show the nature of the groundwater and how it accumulates things that are put on the surface and discharged. The county also has about 1,300 dry wells that exist to drain storm water off the streets and direct it to groundwater. Markers have appeared, and one of them is a rare earth element called gadolinium, which is used to reveal tissues in MRIs. It is excreted quickly in the urine and cannot break down. It has been identified in our ocean. It has been shown unequivocally to exist in wastewater, groundwater, in the harbor and the open ocean. It has been established that the ocean is the ultimate recipient of all wastewater. What bothers him most is that in 2007, on behalf of Surfrider Foundation, they wrote the mayor and provided the evidence that suggested that the Kealakehe wastewater discharge was the single largest source of nutrients that flow into the ocean. There are other sources, but they are substantially smaller. The mayor responded that it would be inappropriate to wait for proof, but to be precautionary, acknowledge the public trust, and do the right thing; and he indicated it was his intent to do so. He did not get reelected, and Mayor Kenoi, through his DEM director, told them in no uncertain terms it was a non-issue. Now it is 2020 with fundamentally the same issue. If the county is going to spend millions of dollars to create R-1 water, it needs to invest in making the water reusable by getting the salt out. R-1 water offers the only opportunity to not discharge and to reclaim the source and perhaps even generate an economy. He suggests the county do the right thing and avoid a lot of public cost and the necessity of a discharge permit, because to meet discharge requirements will be very challenging. The waters immediately offshore of Honokōhau or Kailua Bay are federally impaired, and the law requires that any discharge constitute no further impairment. He agrees with what the mayor said in 2007, which is to do the right thing and not wait for scientific proof. Commissioner Fulton said the important points to recap are that the coastal waters in West Hawaiʻi are already listed as impaired. It is known that the sump, into which the wastewater treatment plant feeds, is supplying nutrients and pollution to the harbor. This is known, and it is distressing to her that DEM’s course appears to be to seek a permit to continue to pollute. It is confounding to her, as there is an alternate path that makes so much more sense, would be so much more beneficial to the environment, and may be beneficial to the economy as well. Resilient responses are needed to the challenges being faced. DEM’s response of trying to go down the permit path and continue to pollute is unacceptable to her personally. 6 Commissioner Cardwell said she wanted to hear from the director on this. Director Kucharski said that when the county creates R-1 water, they will be required by the rules to obtain a discharge permit, whether they discharge one drop or 3 million gallons per day. The question is what the discharge standards will be and whether an NPDES permit will be required. Also, from the reports he has read, there is no unequivocal data showing that the county’s discharge is going into the harbor. He would remind everyone that 25 million gallons per day are discharged throughout the island, and the county’s discharge is approximately 4 to 5 million gallons per day. There is no background data showing the nutrients come from a waste treatment facility and not cesspools. The tracer study being done is to determine that. He is at a loss as to how to deal with the argument that the county should not be discharging, but at the same time is supposed to have R-1 water. The best scenario for the R-1 water is that 100% of it gets used, but that would still not obviate the requirement to have a permit in case they do have to discharge. Dr. Bennett spoke on land use, cesspits and septic systems, the amount of water that flows into the harbor, and why he feels it is not likely to be coming from mauka cesspits. The county should do the right thing with the data that exists and agree the sump is probably draining into the coast and harbor and remediate the situation. It has been going on for 25 years, and it is time to say enough is known and act in the best interest of the resource, as the state constitution requires. Commissioner Adams said the goal of environmental regulations is to deal with the worst case and avoid it if possible, which is why a permit is needed to deal with failure of the system. DEM has to go through hoops which cannot be waived away. The most the commission can do is keep pushing and looking for alternatives on how to reuse the water, not lose it as a resource, and certainly not pollute. However, they also have to be practical and realistic. They need to be encouraging and help find solutions. Beating up on DEM is not a solution. Commissioner Burns agreed. DEM is stuck between a rock and a hard place if an NPDES permit is required in order to have R-1. It is important to be aware rather than frustrated that in the gray space, the best case scenario for the permit is using the parameters that are approved. It is an imperfect system for our waters, but it is what the EPA approved. It is important to be pragmatic, patient, wait for the results of the tracer studies, and then make the best decisions possible given what is known. He apologized that he had to leave the meeting for another meeting he could not miss. Commissioner Gaffney wanted to make two points for the record. First, it is important to remember that when Honokōhau Harbor was built and completed in 1970, the waters were Class AA, the highest quality standard for ocean waters. Over the years they have become impaired, likely from many sources of pollution, but the decline since the sump started being used is notable and obvious. Attention needs to be maximized on eliminating the discharge. Second, regarding R-1, an alternative to discharging is holding. Lined pods could be used instead of expensive tanks. There is a lot of space, ways, and advantages to making this 7 happen, and it needs to be considered. If the sole focus is ultimately getting an NPDES permit, it could cause other opportunities to use the water to be ignored. Also, the current infiltration of salt water could make this whole discussion moot, as the water is currently not of interest to anyone because of the salt. The focus should be on the distribution systems and making a useable, valuable product with an economic return on the investment, as opposed to focusing on having to get an NPDES permit. Chair Pequeño spoke on the possible users of the R-1 water and how public-private partnerships could help with the infrastructure and getting the water out to users sooner, because if there are enough users, discharging the water could be avoided altogether. Commissioner Fulton stated, for the record, that the dye study is probably a waste of taxpayers’ money. As Dr. Bennett pointed out, there is a preponderance of evidence linking the sump to the pollution being observed now. She suggested they jump to agenda item 7c, the director’s update on the sewer pipe and lateral assessments in Kona, as there have been two significant blooms of an unknown green organism in Kailua Bay and Kealakekua Bay, suggesting an efflux of nutrients supplying the growth. Leaks in privately owned laterals could be a source of the nutrients. Commissioner Pequeño said he preferred to complete item 5b and asked Commissioner Gaffney to report on the subcommittee’s draft letter regarding solutions for reclaimed water. Commissioner Gaffney said the letter is still in draft form and is being reviewed by the committee. They should be able to get it out before the next meeting. Commissioner Fulton clarified the purpose of the letter is to encourage dialog between the county administration and private industries to specifically address recycling solutions at the Kealakehe Wastewater Treatment Plant, and the letter is to go to Councilmember Richards and Director Kucharski. Chair Pequeño suggested they move to agenda items 7c through 7e, as they are relevant to the Kona matters being discussed. Motion, second, and vote: Commissioner Gaffney moved to jump to agenda items 7c through 7e, Commissioner Fulton seconded the motion, and all commissioners voted aye. 7. REPORTS/CORRESPONDENCE Director’s Informational Report (note: Director Kucharski gave his report starting with item 7a). a. Status of the proposed Pāhala and Nāālehu Wastewater Treatment Plantʻs. They are still in conversations with the State Historic Preservation Division and EPA on extensions and changes to the AOC deadlines, which are being impacted by the inability to move forward with the federal and state requirements for cultural items. On Pāhala, there 8 were no state filings on the EA and EA decision. On Nāālehu, they’re in the process of ʻ beginning the DEA and getting it moved forward. b. Status of the Kealakehe Wastewater Treatment Plant R-1 Upgrade Project. As stated earlier, they are not able to complete the EIS or move forward on the studies needed to complete designs. They received another grant from the Bureau of Reclamation to continue with the feasibility study and deal with the R-1 design. c. Update on sewer pipe and lateral assessment by the department in Kona (requested by Commissioner Gaffney). They have videoed about one-third of Aliʻi Drive, from the pier up to the hotel (Royal Kona Resort). They did not find any leaks or discharges from the system, and they monitor sewer pump stations and get other indicators. The sewers are checked about every three years with cameras. As for the laterals, the county currently has no control over them. They are in the process of putting forth legislation, and it will include the need for administrative rules, to follow the recent state law which would allows the county to require owners of laterals to determine whether they are leaking and to repair them. d. Discussion of the sewer from the restrooms on the Kailua Pier (requested by Commissioner Gaffney). This is a state issue, and the county has zero authority on it. The state is dealing with the DLNR on the leaks. The state did a study on the algae blooms in Kailua Bay. They were unable to identify a specific source, but they did comment that the restroom leaks could be a contributing factor. Again, the county has no authority over this. e. Discussion of the lava tube system on nearshore waters (requested by Commissioner Gaffney). The county has zero authority on the water quality of nearshore waters. Again, this is a state responsibility. The county works with the state, but the county does not have authority over those waters. When building the Lono Kona sewer system, they did hit a couple of lava tubes, and one had a cesspool discharging into it. When lava tube is hit, a state archeologist has to come and check it. He has no idea how many other lava tubes have cesspools discharging into them. The tubes could be a source of some of the contamination, but he has no way of verifying or quantifying that. There is also surface water, such as storm water, which runs down and flushes into the bay, and this could be another source of nutrients. For example, Hilo Bay generally has an exceedance every time it rains, and it is not coming from the sewer system. There are a number of potential sources of nitrogen and phosphorous that could be contributing to the algae bloom. He would point out that the island is 4,000 square miles, and there are only 108 miles of sewer. 9 Commissioner Fulton asked questions about the Kailua Pier leak, the possible causes of the algae blooms, what happens when salinity spikes are found at the pump stations, and whether high chloride levels suggest infiltration of seawater and exfiltration of raw sewage. She has concerns about swimmers not being informed soon enough about potential contamination. Director Kucharski clarified that DEM has the obligation to inform DOH of any release into waters of the state, and DOH has the obligation of posting the information. She said there is weakness in the notification system, as DOH does not seem to always get the word out to the public. She knows everyone is doing their job, but as a frequent swimmer in Kailua Bay, she would appreciate the pollution information being publicly posted as soon as possible. Commissioner Adams said this area did not seem to be within the commission’s purview, although they could perhaps write a letter to DOH about it, and Commissioner Cardwell said it in their purview, because wastewater is part of what they deal with. She asked if DEM could request that DOH warn the public quickly when there are these pollution events, and Director Kucharski explained that DOH has their standards. They do testing, and if water quality standards are violated, it is reported and posted. There are many sources of pollution, and they can’t post something they think might be a problem, as that would be subjective. DOH has its authority and responsibility, and DEM will follow whatever requirements DOH places upon them. DOH could use a lot more help than they have. He is at a loss on how to fix the notification problem when 90% of the time it is not really a problem. Commissioner Gaffney said he still did not have answers to his very specific questions. His first question had to do with whether DEM had identified any leaks in the county sewer lines between the corner of Kuakini and Palani to the King Kamehameha lift station. Another question was whether there are known leaks in the county sewer system between the King Kamehameha lift station and Royal Kona Resort. He and his constituents want to know whether or not the county knows of any leaks in their system and whether or not the county knows if there are any leaks in the laterals connecting to their system. Director Kucharski said he had answered Commissioner Gaffney three times on his questions. The answer is no, DEM is not aware of any leaks in that system. As to whether they have monitored every foot of that collection system, he had answered no, and he informed them today that monitoring is on a three-year cycle. Regarding the laterals, he said no, they do not know whether there are leaks, and they do not have the authority currently to go up those laterals. Commissioner Gaffney said this was the first time he believed he had answers to any of his specific questions. Further discussion was held about being able to check private laterals and having the owners repair leaks. Commissioner Gaffney said he reached out to DLNR’s Boating Division about the Kailua Pier restroom, as there had been community discussion about a leak there. According to DLNR, there was no leak or violation, and they made no report to DOH. There has been a high degree 10 of vandalism in their toilets statewide, and it also was determined there was sand in the system. Though it is a state agency, at some point it hooks up to a county pipe, so at some point the sewage also becomes the responsibility of the county. This area is of great concern, as it is used by thousands of people. It is an area of special interest, and there needs to be constant coordination between the state and county agencies to ensure there aren’t problems causing deterioration of the water quality. In addition, due to the constant assault upon the old sewer pipes on Aliʻi Drive, he would urge they be reviewed more frequently than every three years. The same may be true for the sewer system in Keaukaha. Chair Pequeño moved on to agenda item 7f. f. Status of the East Hawaiʻi Organics Facility (requested by Commissioner Cardwell). Director Kucharski said they are continuing to work with Hawaiian Earth Recycling on finalizing the design and moving forward on the facility. Commissioner Cardwell asked whether the land had been procured, and Director Kucharski said the site has been identified and paperwork is going on between the county and Shipman. Commissioner Cardwell asked if the timeframe was still to finish by the end of the year, and Director Kucharski said it was actually supposed to open in July. The timeframe is difficult to know now, with the coronavirus situation and permitting being held up. g. Status of coronavirus in wastewater (requested by Commissioner Fulton). It is known that shedding the virus can be measured in wastewater. Hawaiʻi County has not done any testing on this, but Oahu did 14 to 15 tests, which all came back with the virus as non-detectable. Given the low number of infections on this island and the limited sewering, it is not certain what the cost benefit ratio will be. If there is a second wave of infections, it may need be considered. h. Status of the U.S. Supreme Court decision on the Maui permit requirements. This was discussed under agenda item 5b. Commissioner Cardwell asked if they were going to discuss the question Sandra Demoruelle had emailed regarding the current schedule for the Nāālehu project and the ʻ director’s report. Ms. Mellon-Lacey said it could be placed on the next agenda, so that people would know it was going to be discussed. Ms. Cardwell said she did want it included on the next agenda. Chair Pequeño took the meeting back to agenda item 5 (Unfinished Business) c. 11 5.c. Continued discussion on possible funding mechanisms for the Solid Waste Division to improve the quality of services. Ms. Adams said the Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan had several points of discussion for possible funding. However, since the plan is not yet approved, there may not be much to talk about. A problem is that funding is buried in property tax, so it is not visible, and one recommendation is to pull it out of there. Other options they looked at is pay as you throw, curbside collection, or even collecting fees for materials disposed of at the transfer stations. This is a complex subject. Director Kucharski said the Solid Waste Division’s budget is about $38 million, with about half of it coming from the General Fund and half from fees. It bothers him they are not paying their own way. They are looking at different mechanisms, such as point-of-sale fees for white goods and electronics, used motor oil fees, and paint disposal fees. They are looking at bringing money into a separate funding source, but it is difficult to plan on charging more during the pandemic, when many people have lost jobs. Making recycling a self-sustainable activity needs to be looked at, because right now it is just a hole money gets put into. The county is not getting any functional fiscal return on recycling. It would make sense for recycling to be a self-funding portion of the budget, and getting off the General Fund would give them more latitude and make them less susceptible to changes in the economic condition. Regarding the Solid Waste Management Plan, they are hoping to send the final to the County Council by August. Further discussion was held on point-of-sale fees and exploring the possibility of setting up a fund for these fees, starting with electronics and appliances. Director Kucharski said it would need to be approved by the County Council, and a lot more study needs to be done on it first. The first step is to have the concept itself approved. There is also the administration issue of the accounting system that would be needed to manage it and ensure the correct payments are made. Commissioner Adams said anything can be done if there is enough money and expertise. The most feasible targets should be looked at for setting up a separate fee system, and the EMC can try to nudge the Council to develop information for the public on why they will need to start paying fees. 5.d. Continued discussion on the recommendations in the draft 2019 Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan Update. Chair Pequeño said that as it was close to noon, this item and 6.a. should be pushed to the next agenda. Motion, second, and vote: Commissioner Adams moved to push agenda item 5.d. to the next agenda, Commissioner Gaffney seconded the motion, and all commissioners voted aye. 12 6. NEW BUSINESS a. Training by the Office of the Corporation Counsel on appeals of decisions by the Director. Motion, second, and vote: Commissioner Adams moved to push this agenda item to the next agenda, Commissioner Gaffney seconded the motion, and all commissioners voted aye. (Note: the commissioners later voted to have a special meeting to receive training on a separate date). 8. FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS Chair Pequeño asked commissioners to review the recommendations in the Draft Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan as well as the training slides Ms. Mellon-Lacey had put together for them. If there are other suggestions, commissioners can email them to him and the secretary. A man spoke up, saying he was Michael Last and he wanted on the agenda something he could address regarding abandoned vehicles. He said he has questions, concerns, and comments about the program that he would like addressed. The commissioners discussed the training they would be having by Corporation Counsel and decided they wanted a separate meeting to receive the training. Motion, second, and vote: Commissioner Adams moved to have a special meeting to receive training on how to manage administrative hearings. Commissioner Fulton seconded the motion, and all commissioners voted aye. The commissioners also agreed they wanted the meeting to be virtual. 9. ANNOUNCEMENTS Chair Pequeño announced the next meeting was scheduled for July 22, 2020, at a location to be determined or online. 10. ADJOURNMENT Motion, second, and vote: Commissioner Adams moved to adjourn, Commissioner Gaffney seconded the motion, and all commissioners voted aye. The meeting adjourned as 12:03 p.m. Respectfully submitted: Mary E. Fujio, Secretary (with her signature) 13