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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2015-04-20 Game Management Advisory Commission Mintues Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes-April 20, 2015 Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawaii Minutes Meeting Date: Monday, April 20, 2016 Time: 6:30 p.m. Place: Hawaii County Building - Council Chambers and via Video Conferencing to WHCC Mayors Conference Room I. CALL TO ORDER: Meeting was called to order at 6:32pm. 11. ROLL CALL: Per B. Kossow: Willie-Joe Camara, District 1 - here Dwayne "Ike" Yoshina, District 2 - here Naniloa Pogline - District 4 - here Thomas H. Lodge, District 5 - here Kenneth "balani" DeCoito, District 6 -here District 7 -Vacant Mark C. Bartell - District 8 - present District 9 -Vacant Quorum established ALSO PRESENT: Craig Masuda, Corporation Counsel Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist B. Command, Deputy Planning Director III. Announcements and Introductions: Jonathan Bartsch, Police Officer, North Kohala David Penn, DLNR, Wildlife Access &Acquisition Program Coordinator Jason Omick, DLNR, Wildlife Program Assistant Hamana Ventura, COH, Finance Dept., Property Manager Alexandra Kelepolo, COH, Finance Dept. Property Mgmt. Technician Willy Myer, POND Commissioner Nick Agorastos, DOFAW, Natural Area Reserves Specialist IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Deferred V. Budget Report: Action: M. Bartell motioned to accept the budget report as circulated. Seconded by K. DeCoito. Motion passed unanimously. VI: Public Testimony on Agenda Items: None VIII: Discussion: Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 201 S 1) County of Hawaii's Public Access,Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Commission (PONC): a) Brief presentation about the Commission and its process of nominating properties for consideration by PONC. a Hamana Ventura,County of Hawaii - Property Manager Is Alexandra Kelepolo,County of Hawaii-Property Management Technician Willy Meyers, PONC Commissioner David Penn, DLNR-Wildlife Access&Acquisition Program Coordinator AK: We put together a very brief Power-point presentation. The Public Access, Open Space, Natural Resources Preservation Commission aka PONC — it's an advisory commission to the mayor and it's consisted of nine members, representing each Council District. They follow the Hawaii County code, Chapter 2, Article 42. 1 have also provided a copy of that in your green folders as attachment A. If you want to read that later on — it has a lot more information regarding the commission and its process. Currently, we have a vacancy in our Council District 9 of North and South Kohala, if you know anyone who'd be interested. So basically their duties and responsibilities is to develop and island-wide prioritized list of qualifying lands for their preservation and submit it to the mayor annually. Update this list at any time. Explore methods of funding that acquisition and make recommendations to the mayor and give emphasis to land acquisitions where the County's contribution can be leveraged to obtain funding. Our funding source is also known as the PONC fund. 2% of Hawaii County real property tax revenues is deposited annually. It's split up in quarterly deposits. We get about four to 4.5 million deposited annually and some of the purposes that you could —this is the criteria they look for, for land — if you're, you know, interested in nominating a property. Public outdoor recreation, education, access to beach and mountains, preservation of historical and cultural sites, natural resources, buffer zones, forests, beaches, coastal areas and watershed lands. So this is the main criteria that is looked for if you're interested in nominating a property for consideration. So nomination of properties to PONC. Suggestion forms are submitted to nominate properties for consideration which is due by June 30th of each year. I've also provided a copy in your green folder— attachment B — it's very important to submit a complete and thorough suggestion form. It does help our commission assess it higher and you know if you want your property to be moved up on the prioritized list then it really does make a difference. Attach any information, studies, very important if the landowner 2 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 is willing to sell. It's not required but it does really help when they look at it because if we don't have a willing landowner, most times the property will not rank too high. Testimony is very welcome at our meetings. The commissioners welcome any more additional information that can be given to them — it does make a difference when they're doing their ranking. Answer the questions as thorough as possible —you might not have all the attachments, but, the more you can give us the better. We do also, not only fee simple purchase but the commission does accept easement requests— conservation easements — it's not an acquisition — we wouldn't b*uy it outright— the County would — easement is definitely, you'll get a lot more, you know, bang for your buck money wise—you don't pay the whole, full price. We've done one. There has been a few that has been nominated to us in the past. So that's one thing to consider. And then the timeline for processing the nominations - our July meeting is where our commission will review all the forms submitted this year and we have an investigative committee, which does go out and do site visits on properties, so if the property is easily accessible, that's a plus. We do need the landowners' consent to conduct a site visit. Location, accessibility, feasibility. Our September meeting —they'll assess the forms and determine which properties will be included on the prioritized list. December—the annual report to the mayor is submitted by the end of the month with the prioritized list. So all properties submitted for this year will be put on a list, ranked accordingly by our commissioners and properties are ranked higher if they have more information provided. February—the report is transmitted to the County Council with the mayor's recommendations. Once they approve it and file it—the next step — if there was a property that you were interested in pushing through —the County Council Member in that district would have to prepare a resolution authorizing the Finance Director to enter into negotiations. So from the time you submit a form in June you're looking at nine to ten months before we could even get to that process where we could actually start moving on it and all of that is determined upon availability, urgency, very important. So that would be our process. To date 10 properties were acquired with the PONC fund. We've acquired 1,261 acres, obtained almost 5.6 million dollars in federal and state grants and we do not have representation in every district. This commission is entirely community driven. So all the properties nominated to us is submitted to us by the public, by community groups who are interested in preserving that. We would like to see an island-wide distribution. But right now this is what we've purchased to date. And what does the County do when we purchase lands? We have a 3 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 funding source for that. It's called the PONC maintenance fund. Point 25% of the property taxes deposited annually—we have about 1.2 million dollars in this fund right now—that's administered by Parks and Recreation. So Friends of the Park agreements, memorandums of understanding between community groups and P & R, and stewardship grants —that was something new— it just started last year that the Parks & Recreation is taking applications between mid-July and August 30 and there's a very specific on what the moneys can be used for. Hawaii County Charter, Section 10-16 has a list of everything that can or can't be used for the fund and this is one of the properties we will be purchasing, I would say in the next six months — Kahuku coastal property. That was just a brief presentation on the commission but I'm sure you have some questions. WC: What's the largest size property that you have purchased? AK: The largest property we've purchased I'd say is Kawa. Seven hundred and eighty-five acres in Kau, ocean front. And we purchase it to retain an open space. The number one reason we buy it is to eliminate the threat of development. TL: If you have a willing seller, an easement or whatever, but if it gets delayed —what is the process? AK: We've had very patient landowners in the past. Some of them have been waiting three or four years for the County because we can buy a land —we can buy a property at any given time out of order— it doesn't have to be number one on the list. If the administration chooses that it's an urgency— it's a recommended property—then we can buy it. So, certain properties we've run into obstacles with land court and —just unforeseen roadblocks, basically, every property is unique in itself, I would say... HV: We also have to take in the contact— some of the properties that we're looking at have archaeological features that once identified can slow down the process because then you have to do— be investigative — identify— come up with a burial plan if we're talking about remains and so forth so it's — it depends on the property and what's found during the investigative process. MB: Mark from Kona. So PONC will take on easement requests, was that, am I correct on that? None of those have been done yet though, correct? AK: None of our easement requests have made it to the County Council resolution step but we have it on our list. MB: So —why haven't they made —there's just not a high enough priority or... 4 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 AK: I think it's more education. Our commissioners are not that familiar with conservation easements and we have had a turnaround of commissioners so right now we have almost a whole new group —so we'll be having a training actually at our next meeting for conservation easements. MB: So is it only conservation easements or is it easements? So let me get to my point, right, so the state has many land —well, I should say the state has some landlocked state land, correct? Whereby, let's take Hualalai for example, there are several state forests, yet, no one can get to them. Right? There's no access to them. In order to get to them you have to trespass, which most people don't do. So — my question about easement is, I mean, DLNR workers have access to the state forests but it has not been negotiated with the landowner to allow public access for a variety of reasons, as you might come to. I mean, is it possible that PONC would entertain — I'm not talking about conservation easement— but an access easement to some of the state forest on Hualalai? Does that make the list for PONC? CM: Mark, this is Craig (attorney for PONC). Let me explain something. I think there's a little bit of disconnect. Once the property is put on the list— it's evaluated by the PONC commission. If it's put on the list then it's up to the members of the Council then to submit a resolution to bring it forward. I think what Alex is saying is that no council person has brought forward, to date, an easement—whether it be conservation easement or regular easement for the resolution. That's part of your hang up. MB: That's part of my hang up, right? I mean — I'm just thinking about it real time here, right? We have landlocked forest reserves that nobody except state employees can get to. And thinking through this process can we negotiate with PONC and a landowner access for the general public? CM: No. See that's where you're having the disconnect Mark. You don't negotiate with PONC. You just put forward — let me break it down further. You need some organization to come in and put together the proposal packet first, right? Proposal packet— is the more detailed it is the more they can stress the urgency of why you need to protect this area — or give access to this area —the higher it'll be ranked by PONC. PONC then put together the report—the report sent to the mayor and as well as council — and then you have prioritized list. Then it's up to the members of the county council to then take that list and then act upon the list. So there's no negotiation with PONC. PONC is like the reviewing body— because once you put together your packet they'll say OK this one looks good. We'll give it sixty points and sixty points puts it at number 12 on the list. Whereas they'll look at another property from another proposal —they'll say well this one looks like seventy— so they'll go on the next step on the 5 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 list or whatever, I'm just making up numbers but...It's that kind of thing. So there's not a negotiation with PONC. It's up to the council people then to pass the resolution, Once that resolution is passed, then property management— Hamana and Alex put on a different hat— and then they go and they negotiate for the price for that parcel, you know, within the realm of the budget they're given by council. TL When you said that an organization has to bring the packet together— is that something that GMAC could do? CM: You could if you had the time. I've never seen [tape break] actually— OK— let me put on the hat of the council now. Mark —what else— Mark I don't know if you guys were live yet— but what I was telling Tom — I represent both PONC and GMAC, OK, so I'm counsel for both of them — so as it comes a time where it—where GMAC were to put together a proposal for PONC — because I assist PONC in reviewing those applications — I wouldn't be able to help GMAC put together their application — OK— let me have that right out front. Also, as far as preserving or putting properties up for preservation — I think you're going outside of the scope of GMAC. If GMAC were to find someone to champion it for them —that would be another issue. I know we've discussed — not as a board issue—the possibility of four more board members or current board members forming a separate organization and that kind of thing would be a perfect thing to be the champion of this kind of initiative. KID: This is Kalani. So can we get one list of all our commissioners that represent that PONC and can we work with them individually and have them present it, right? CM: No. It's like you're trying to individually lobby judges. MB: So but easements or conservation easements and other easements are acceptable to PONC? CM: That is one of the things that PONC is authorized to look at for a recommended purchase, yes. It's just that they've never done it yet. DY: So if I understand you, what you've said, GMAC as a body cannot nominate? CM: See —when you look at the charter of GMAC — see —we'll call it the charter of GMAC - because it's in the charter— it says GMAC —their job is to advise state, federal and county agencies on matters pertaining to access, hunting, cultural resources, that kind of thing. But, so, that's how 6 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 come I'm saying it's kind of tenuous for you folks as a body to do that because that's not one of those — it's not advising. DY- But what if we advise PONC to look at an easement. CM: When you going to advising PONC —that's the other part I was gonna just bring up is you can also within, you know the last part of your folks charter section, right, it says promulgate, reports or something like that, right? Right. So what you could do — is if you folks get together as a body and you just say, OK, we want GMAC to tell the council —another government agency—we want you to go look at— I don't know—just take for something out of the blue, right, Finance Factors property—just out of the blue, just something, right—we just want you to go look at that and you as GMAC can send them that letter. But then you're not the proponent or the sponsor putting together the package and running it through to the end. Cause one of the most important things that Alex was telling you folks — that I don't know if it's fully appreciated — is that how detailed the report is, their submittal is — how willing the owner is —the higher it gets ranked. And I think that's a fair statement. DY: Craig — I'm kind of clear on the purchase of property— I think that's a very detailed kind of thing, but easements on the other hand are just basically agreements, right? I mean between a property owner and the county or the state. CM: It's a lower level of purchase. It's not a purchasing fee but it is —you know when they talk about the bundle of rights that come with a purchase of a property. It's all but maybe like three sticks of the bundle of rights. DY: Yeah, I understand that but what I'm saying is — in terms of, I don't know how to say this legally, but in terms of the advising responsibility— isn't that kind of a lower level? Because we're going to a —we're advising another government agency, like for example Mark said there's this easement that goes to the Hualalai area —so can we just advise the mayor or the council to work on opening that easement. CM: No. That's what I'm saying. That's what you can do. What I'm saying is — it's hard for you folks as a part-time volunteer board to put together a full on packet that will have that parcel ranked high enough. So, I mean, it's possible, I mean if you folks want to donate a lot of time to do it— it's possible— but it's also kind of on the edge of your folks kuleana, yeah. KID: Sorry, OK, this is Kalani. So getting back to what Ike was saying — so what if we have somebody to propose something and have them address GMAC and then we go with one saying that we all agree that this should 7 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes--April 20, 2015 be addressed and then have our county council look at it good —with the advisement that we all agree that this is something good. And then from there have PONC realize that this is one of the prioritized list that should be prioritized in a high format—and have it looked at accordingly. Because it comes from our commission, it comes from PONC commission —that, yeah, it was addressed in a proper way. So even if I get somebody for propose something but with the GMAC approval of recommendation from GMAC saying that yeah, we would like to see some kind of access like this be put up. Wouldn't that be prioritized on the list and brought up, because now I think we'd get that much power, right, to say, under advisement from GMAC that we all agreed and put it to a vote that this is something that we should be addressing, right? That's generally what we can do, right, I mean, being that we don't have that much, right, we're volunteers, as you said. But I think as a quorum I think we get that power to say and recommend. CM: Kalani, you're more eloquent than me. That's what I was trying to say. I defer to you. HV: I think we're missing the point here is that— bottom line is somebody or some group needs to prepare and submit an application. According to Craig. But if you have members or if there's somebody on —that you work with that can go through the application process and submit it in the application that GMAC supports this property—then it's gonna go before the PONC commission and it should carry some weight. AK: I'm sure in each of your respective council districts you must have community groups that might even champion these properties so that's another thought to consider. HV: The flip side it would be if somebody came and submitted an application to GMAC and said that PONC advised us that we're going in the right directions— same type of scenario. How would you guys view — how would you as a body view that information. Would it matter, would it carry more weight as a presented subject? So that's the same criteria that our commission would face as well. But bottom line — application — provide supporting evidence and if the application is solid it has merit. Then the commission's gonna take a hard look at it. TL When you say supporting evidence you're talking about recommendations from our committee or others or financing options that area available— that kind of stuff? HV: Talking more about information related to the property—what is its significance? It's not just metes and bounds—there's more to it— and its' all part of the application, Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 WC: Would a petition help of people in support? AK: Yes, community support is very important. HV: We just closed on Banyan Tree Park— part of their presentation is they went through a petition process. Prior to application and during the application process they wanted to remind everyone that this is the direction that they wanted to go — so I would say yes. AK: Please call us if you have any more questions. Chair thanked the PONC team for their personation. 2) Where do we go from here? Chair T. Lodge, Power-point presentation. Hard copies were circulated to members. a) Continuation of Discussion from last month's meeting and how to address the messages of introduced species. Observations of Island Introductions. Are we taking property advantage of our Introduced Species? Are fences a risky environment experiment? A forest without fences possible? What we hear from DLNR frequently and their many partners is that our forest evolved without hoofed mammals in their midst. What we also hear is along with that frequently is that half of Hawaii's forests have already been lost. Alien species, such as feral pigs, and goats trample and devour vegetation, leaving bare ground or openings for alien plants that consume more water and increase runoff. Controlling these and other threats requires a large-scale effort to protect these irreplaceable natural assets (Rain follow the forest) Our Constitution prior to 1978, Section 1 contains a general policy statement mandating the legislature to promote the conservation, development, and utilization of agricultural resources and fish, mineral, forest, water, land, game and other natural resources. Natural Resources = Animals that can survive in the wild without the aid of man. 9 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 A proposal of the 1978 Constitutional Convention deleted the former Section 1 of the old Article X, as an unspecified change. It's also noted that if the amendment alters the sense, meaning or effect of any provision of the Constitution, it was not ratified. All public natural resources are held in trust by the State for the benefit of the people. (Hawaii State Constitution, Article XI, Section 1). 183D-2 Powers and duties of department. The department shall: Manage and administer the wildlife and wildlife resources of the State; Preserve, protect, and promote public hunting. Who is it that decides that we are to remove the non-native and to replace it all with native in our watershed area? In the case of water collection, that would not be wise. Who is it who decides that fencing, whether or not you have step-overs, is appropriate long term sustainable management for our forest? "Ecosystem management should maintain ecosystems in the appropriate condition to achieve desired social benefits; the desired social benefits are defined by society, not scientists." (Robert.Lackey@oregonstate.edu) Evolution includes man. Things evolve without man, with man, and because of man. Things get introduced without man, with man and because of man, Here in Hawaii, species are native if they are thought to have arrived here without the aid of man, (Coconuts, taro, breadfruit, yams, ti leaf, gourds, pig, jungle fowl, sugar cane dogs and the rat). We cannot expect to live in an evolving world without contact with other species or other species finding their way here on their own, such as the Tsunami in Japan. Introductions oftentimes were carried out for the purposes of improving the health or welfare of man or also for reasons of recreation or nostalgia. Western Introductions to Hawaii of hooved animals (ungulates), photos were shared. Watershed Protection and Restoration plan. Remove all invasive hooved animals from Priority I and 11 areas. it is our understanding that NARS works with the watershed. 10 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 3. Introduced Species presentation by Nicholas Agorastos, DLNR Natural Area Reserves Systems (NABS) NA: Nick Agorastos provided an alternate perspective to Tom's power-point presentation. DLNR has and DOFAW specifically has a multiple use mandates. We have to try and balance all of the different needs and issues that are brought up, not only by the community but by the legislators, We're more focused on other portions of things — I would say that the people that are working for DLNR are very passionate people. They are people from our society. I'm born and raised her on the Big Island. So they are part of the community. We're not these scientists from far off lands that are just bringing this stuff up out thin air. I work for Natural Area Reserve System [NARS]. We have a very clear mandate and it's only one portion of DLNR. 1, myself, sometimes are—am conflicted with things because I am a big proponent of the multiple use mandates of DLNR. I like to camp. I like to hunt. My particular job is very straight forward and it says you will manage things for our native ecosystems. Comment on Division of Forestry and Wildlife and the Natural Area Reserve Management In Tom's presentation, Chapter 183, only one of twelve was shown of the mandates of the department of the division. But there are significantly more than that and I think that alludes to the many different hats that DOFAW and DLNR has to wear. Duties are spelled out clearly and makes the job easy. I think the Forestry section has a much harder balancing act to do. With that said, we're very fortunate on this island that we have well over 600,000 acres of public land. A very small percentage of that, under 20%, is actually fenced. I think those plans that you mentioned up in your PowerPoint were very pie in the sky. I can see how they can alarm people. But from a guy that runs crews out on the ground daily, it would be very difficult for us to ever achieve that in my lifetime, let alone somebody else's, even with a very aggressive legislature behind us with ample funding of which we're always year-to-year so... Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 Referring to the Priority One and Priority Two areas. That's a very ambitious goal. With our current funding things —extremely unlikely that we'd even get close to that, Particularly removing all ungulates or fencing. There's very little fenced area. Most of that is in areas that I manage —the Natural Areas Reserves — and of that—we're still under 20% of the Natural Area Reserves. Mauna Kea, I know, is a hot topic. I don't even begin to try and bring that up. TL Yeah, no, we're — one of the things here though — in your lifetime that may not be an accomplishment, nor maybe in mine, but this is a goal that when Aila was the chairman at our meeting in Kona in September— said, yeah, if I had the money today, that's what would happen. I would do that. I mean this is —there's no — it's not, you know, we gotta get this done by 2050 or we're gonna forget it— it's like this is the plan and so it's gonna continue on. We have a plan for our kids too, given your opportunity right here in the funding and the thing over, you know, year after year after year —that would be what you're looking at, right? NA: Those are currently my marching orders, yes. TL Yeah. So that, that's our concern. It may not be for today. And it may not be for my lifetime, but I have grandchildren, one who is just now starting to become interested and I'm thrilled. You know and yes I can probably take him hunting today but will his grandchildren be able to do it and that's the issue for almost anybody here in this room. NA: I don't think that you'll find anybody at DOFAW that is an advocate for not being able to hunt in the future for anybody. There may be differences of opinion but I think everybody wants at DOFAW wants to see that continue. I say that wholeheartedly, I really do not think that... TL Well the goal of GMAC is sustainable real hunting experiences in the perpetuity. And one of the things that we have in the legislature and I don't know if that had anything to do with the reason why it got shot down or not but our suggestions were — like with NABS, for example, I know for example that in NABS before you guys start putting up the snares you have people that are going in there for days without seeing pigs. And, you know, I don't even go in there anymore, I mean it's just wasting my time, my dogs are panting and I'm not getting any game. So, ultimately, then they send in staff hunters and ultimately get a few more pigs possibly and then you get into the final stage, which usually is snaring. The question that we have is why if you go days with dogs especially— and not see game —would it be necessary even to fence? 12 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 NA: From my perspective, and I'm gonna speak on a personal level, as a manager on this island. I have a very finite budget and I have to accomplish certain goals that are set. Some of them I set for my staff and I and others are set for me by either the policy or the direction or the initiatives that are set down. When it comes to selecting certain areas that are going to be high priority areas —either because of their uniqueness or their impactness or things that still remain — it may be habitat of a rare plant or rare birds It's the long, slow degradation of things. It might not happen today, it might right away— can somebody be there to stand watch every day to make sure that when something does come around that there's something there to protect and we can't be out there so from our perspective with the limited staff and limited funds it comes down to a cost benefit analysis or an analysis of, is this worth it? Is this something that we're supposed to be doing? NP: If you're limited by a budget, like you say, why would in Kau make fences that you know go from east to west. Why don't you just make smaller kipuka areas that are the most important areas and then that way you know there could be passage for migratory animals and hunters to go without having to get some kind of special permission and key to get in? That's a couple different questions. NA: OK. I'm not sure which Kau project you're referring to... NP: I'm just wondering why if the budget is limited why can't you just pick certain smaller areas in islands — in an island style — in a kipuka style to fence rather than making these long fences that block the migratory patterns of the game animals... TL I think what you're saying is that, you know, Willie-Joe has a — he works with that advisory committee out in Laupahoehoe and they have a fencing project now— I think it's 5,000 acres, if I'm not mistaken. But that started off as like a 50 acre deal — 500 acres possibly maybe at the most. WC: Yeah. I mean it—the goal is to get rid of them all. So to answer Nani's question —why not make small kipukas— is the goal is they don't want small kipukas they want the whole thing. NP: But if they're not budget for it... MB: Mark from Kona. Nick walk us through a process by which a potential NABS area is identified through the decision of we're gonna fence and 13 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 eradicate. How does that process work and where does public discourse actually happen during that process? NA: So a couple of things that were brought up. Willie-Joe mentioned Kohala. I'll speak to that cause that's something that I'm more familiar with. I started out as a community member long before I was an employee of the division. I started out as an assistant, resource assistant, paid through the university— and basically my first five or six years were going out there and documenting the forest— basically measuring the forest via transits. And through that by spending weeks if not months out in the mountains you kinda get to know an area —you've got to know which areas are of high quality from a native vegetation standpoint—where the native birds are —where there's high concentrations in Kohala of pigs. Where the ecosystem altering weeds are located, which ones have good topography? There's a whole bunch of different things going —for things like the Kohala Watershed Partnership that was established and then the Kohala Watershed Management Plan which was developed —there was basically years and years of field work that went into where the important places are both from a native ecosystem standpoint and which areas, at least from DOFAW's perspective and some of the community members are the important areas for the hunting. And so if you look at Kohala Watershed Management Plan the easily accessible areas, even though there's a lot of high quality forest in those areas —those were left out of the watershed fencing areas. So once identified then it goes through the environmental review process where groups, although this wasn't, the GMAC wasn't then —as you guys all know—there were other community groups that were notified. There were countless meetings out in Kohala. Honestly, that— I think some good stuff came from them — but I don't think they really amounted to anything cause they were just huge shouting matches —fast forward ten, fifteen years—the Kohala Watershed Management Plan is gone through this process as spelled out by Chapter 343 — it's approved. OK, then what? At that point we had already had a starting point in Kohala and there's 100 acre rare bog in Kohala and that was —we did a separate environmental assessment for that and in 1997 we started fencing it and by 1998 it was complete and it took us to 2000 —the year 2000 to get it so there are no pigs— and then there was follow-up ginger control, So, you're asking me a long question, so I'm trying to give you as detailed a response. So first things that will go into that is we'll set up a bunch of transect and transect are ways of measuring activity of ungulates, birds, what kinds of weeds are in the forest, how much weeds are in the forest. Things that are starting to come up on our radar. 14 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 For example, when the first set of transect in Kohala was read in 1995 — there was no fireweed on any of the transect. We re-read that five years later in 2000, we had fire weed on one station on one transect. Fast forward another five years and it was on every transect but not every station. So that's a method for us to kind of track things, we see things coming, there's nothing we can do about it, but those are the kinds of things and so that's the first process and then you go through this long process of trying to figure out is this area important, is it worth it, what kinds of resources are in it, obvious things. You guys are all forest users— you know that there's pigs out there. I was finding amazing things like black Franklin and ring-necked pheasants in a place that gets 200 inches of rain a year. That surprises me and blew my mind. We didn't find a lot of them but they were there. Continuing on. So we do our monitoring, we do a baseline transect—then somebody on the staff usually draws up a plan that has been vetted, you know exactly when you put those fence lines or those watershed units in a management plan and they are kind of conceptual. We have a pretty good idea of where they're gonna go, and why they're gonna go there, but until the fence crews actually get out there on the ground, once the fence is actually cut in —taking into account topography so we're not trying to take advantage of any topography that's there. OK fast forward some more — fence is done—we get in there to animal control. The division has a policy that the public is granted first opportunity to go in there and take out as many animals as they want. WC: Can I interrupt you? So NARS definition of hunting is to eradicate... NA: No, NARS does not hunt. We do control. NARS is mandated — NARS is very specific. If you, and that's why I mentioned —when you mentioned Chapter 183 — he (Tom Lodge) only mentioned sub-section one and twelve in his talk and there's several more cause DLNR has, as you guys all know, multiple mandates. Not just the game or not just the watershed. WC: Yeah, but NARS exempt from upholding DLNR obligations to support hunting and game animals? NA: That is not the primary purpose of Natural Area Reserves... MB: Hey, Nick. It's Mark in Kona. Let me ask you — so if I got this right there's 600,000 acres, roughly 700 —20% of that is fenced. What's the plan on the books for the next three, four, five years in terms of fencing? How much more is gonna get fenced and moved over into NARS? NA: Don't quote me on the numbers but I'm gonna guess that there's probably six thousand acres in Kohala that's approved in the Kohala Watershed 15 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 Management Plan and that includes not just Natural Area Reserves that includes some forest reserves, some private land. There are currently four thousand acres— I think it's a little more than that—4800 in Puu Makaala Natural Area Reserve that is on the books. Laupahoehoe, as Willie-Joe is on the Laupahoehoe Advisory Committee —that nothing has been approved yet but there is proposed fencing in there. I think it's over 2,000 but I don't think it's over 3,000. But I do want to clarify a couple of things so that I am clear. I don't think we've hit the 20% threshold of DOFAW lands on this island because there's more fencing in Natural Area Reserves than there is in Forest Reserves and we haven't even hit 20% in the Natural Area Reserves —even with the proposed fencing that I just mentioned. In addition to that—there is a boundary fence along Ocean View and along or that goes down below the mac nut orchards, which will in essence put a fence along the entire boundary of Manuka. There are no current plans for any animal control. That is more to address our encroachment issues cause we have over 20 encroachments, where people are building houses and various other kinds of, you know, anything from driveways to watersheds, rain sheds and houses in a Natural Area Reserve, basically in public land. Does that help to answer your question? MB: So that's a yeah, I've got, anywhere from twelve to thirteen thousand acres that are on the books to be fenced. NA: Correct. MB: In addition to the 120. And that's all you know of? So is Manuka going to get fenced? NA: Yes, I just mentioned that is a perimeter fence and it has three segments. One that goes down along Road to the Sea, of which we have several encroachments, so that fence does a couple of things. From your guys — from a lot of people's perspective it's there for animal control. While that is —that may very well be part of the goal —the goal is to stop the encroachments because we have well over 166 neighbors along the Manuka Natural Area Reserve and we have several encroachments on that. Manuka is 25,500 acres. I know Lisa Hadway made a presentation to you folks, I don't know, maybe even more than a year ago by now, but she had more very specific maps for you folks with more acreage or very detailed acreage and detailed maps and percentages and I don't want to go against anything that she said — I'm trying to go off of memory here and let you guys know what has already been approved. WC: So that Kohala —you said 6,000 acres—why does that include outside of the NARS spectrum — I mean you were saying some is in forest reserve? 16 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 NA: Yeah, some of that is in forest reserve, some of it is private property and that's what was proposed to the watershed partnership. And that's everybody agreed on the partnership and that's what was put forth in the environmental assessment and management plan. There is an environmental assessment that has been done. It is now an exempted activity— management— I'm not sure on the exact terminology — but it is an exempted... MB: What does not mean. The state has exempted itself. NA: No, the environmental —sorry, I'm trying to think of the name— Office of Environmental Quality Control — OEQC —exempted the state. That is a community board —that's a voted on board — people are put in place on there. MB: Are there hunters on the board? NA: I'm not sure of the make-up, You could check with QEQC. MB: So, Nick? Is there an EIS done on this? NA: To answer your question — is an environmental assessment done each time a fence is erected? No, sometimes there's replacement of old fences, existing fences, if they're short segments in the past we used to have and exemption for— it could be no bigger than 10 acres. But it didn't give a linear distance on that, so it kind of left it open for interpretation. And then that went back to OEQC and they, they didn't see the purpose in having us go through an environmental assessment each time we want to erect a fence. Having said that, as Willie-Joe said, or has been a part of—we're going through the Laupahoehoe forest management plan currently. It is going to — once it has been approved by the Laupahoehoe Advisory Committee, and then it is approved to go out to the public, then it will be— I can assure you that the GMAC will get it's copy to review. So it— most of the large scale fences still go through the environmental review process. One way or another— I hope that helps. DP: This is Dave Penn in Kona. Can I maybe give some clarification on that? I think if you're talking about the Office of Environmental Quality Control — that is a state agency which is attached to the Department of Health — and it has a director who is appointed by the governor and confirmed by the senate and if you're talking about the environmental council —which is a body of up to fifteen volunteers —who are also appointed by the governor and confirmed by the senate— and that is the body that has the rule making authority under Chapter 343. So Chapter 343 lays out the environmental review process, requirements in a big way— but then the 17 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 environmental council has the rule making authority over Hawaii Administrative Rules 11-200, which are the rules and regulations about for instance, the exemption, how the exemption process works and all of that — and what the environmental council does with the exemption list that each department has — is they review the exemption list and concur with the agency's decision on its exemption list. And in fact, there's actually right now the environmental council — I think they just opened a comment period. DLNR has gone through a process of trying to consolidate all of the exemption that's from the different divisions and the different programs into one department-wide exemption list and I believe the comment period on that is currently open to the environmental council. So I just wanted to make that clarification that it is really not an elected body. An appointed body... NA: Sorry if I misspoke... IDP: No, 1, you know, I just wanted to make sure that we understood. WC: So who in DOFAW allows or gives the OK to fence more fence in the forest reserves? You know, outside of NABS? Whose decision is that? NA: On the district level it'll be the forestry management—there currently is— there isn't one — Steve Bergfeld used to be the Forestry Manager and he is now our branch manager. I think there are several — nobody operates in a vacuum by any means — if something is proposed it goes in house and it's given —there's an opportunity for comment by all the different sections and ultimately it comes down to whomever is proposing to do that work. And then it'll go up through the branch manager—goes up the chain. Eventually, it's got to get approved by the chairman and the board. TL When you start looking at some of this fencing stuff—when do you start looking at trying to use federal funds to do it? NA: The only project that I can think of on, right now that has federal funds involved in it—would be the replacement of the Mauna Kea Forest Reserve fence. TL: Is that Pittman-Robertson? NA: Honestly, I couldn't tell you, From the Natural Area Reserve standpoint— all of our funding comes from the NARS and the capitol improvement budget, which is that Rain Follows the Forest initiative. DY: I have another kind of general question. So Nicholas, can you tell me if there is in DLNR — is there a — like a coordinating body that takes a more Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 expansive view of what DLNR does, like, looks at Aquatics and Forestry and see that everything is kinda going to a director or is that the duty of the board or chair? NA: Yeah. Most of the sections and when I speak of sections of Division of Forestry and Wildlife—there's a Wildlife Na Ala Hele; NARS and Forestry. Anything that goes from a section is then looked over by the branch manager and then on up. I don't think there's a single committee so to speak that looks at— is this project taking into consideration all the different mandates of DLNR. TL: In the Rain Follows the Forest, all this fencing that may or may not get done in the near term, far term or whatever— but essentially it looks like and if I understand Lisa correctly—you folks are administering that program, right, at NARS? NA: No that is a DLNR-wide or a Division of Forestry and Wildlife and Watershed partnership initiative. The moneys go out to the different watershed partnerships — public or private —and DOFAW in general. But, not just NARS, no. I'll give you quick example— like the cattle fence that's at the top of Hilo Forest Reserve. That's being paid for by Watershed CIP funds. And all they're trying to do is just get the cattle out of the forest. TL: Right. No, I was referring to the Priority One, Priority Two issues primarily. And on those Priority One and Priority Two issues - that essentially is turning that—those areas into a NARS —are they not? Essentially. Not a NAR in name even, but, they're being treated as a NARS, right? NA: I guess it depends on your perspective, I mean, the forest reserves have a mandate to protest watershed areas. That's why they were started. But, you know, from a hunter's perspective —yeah, they might look at that as— all right, well there's no game in it—you're essentially calling it a NAR. TL: Well fence and eradicate would be sort of that same perspective. That's basically is what we're looking at and the public doesn't have much input and this water—and I'm not trying to lay this on you — but this whole watershed thing here is really way out of context over what's really necessary. NA: I want to just mention to all the public members here in the commission — a lot of the questions you asked are my own personal opinions. I do the best I can to speak of what I know of the divisions initiatives and ideas and [unclear] but try not to quote me on a lot of that stuff because I don't want to speak for Lisa or for Steve, but if you guys have further 19 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—April 20, 2015 questions, I'm always available, You guys can always call me, I'll do my best to answer your questions. DP: This is Dave Penn in Kona. I would like to announce for everybody that we did recently gain a new person in our wildlife program — manager position in the admin office, his name is Jim Cogswell. He's been a DOFAW employee on Oahu for quite a while. VIII. NEW BUSINESS: None IX. COMMITTEE REPORTS: None Tony has resigned. Ryan Kohatsu has filed an application that is in process. Jonathan Bartsch (District 9) will consider submitting an application. Naniloa Pogline has offered to help with communications. X. COMMISSIONERS REPORTS BY DISTRICT: None XI: NEXT MEETING DATE: May 8, 2015 XIII: ADJOURNMENT: Action: M. Bartell moved to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by D. "Ike" Yoshina. Motion carried unanimously. Respectfully submitted by, Barbara Kossow Secretary ATTEST: Thomas H. Lodge 20