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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-04-15 Leeward Exh D (SPP 20-221) LEEWARD PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT APRIL 15, 2021 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of PABLO PENALOZA (SPP 20-000221) was called to order at 11:38 a.m. via live-stream online meeting, with Chairman Michael Vitousek presiding. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Michael Vitousek, Nancy Carr Smith, Barbara DeFranco, Clement"CJ" Kanuha III, Max Newberg, and Mark Van Pernis ABSENT AND EXCUSED: Faith"Faye" Yates ALSO IN ATTENDANCE: J Yoshimoto, Esq. (Counsel for the Commission), Jean Campbell, Esq. (Counsel for the Planning Department), Zendo Kern (Planning Director), Jeffrey Darrow (Deputy Planning Director), Alex Roy (Planner), Maija Jackson (Planning Program Manager), Christian Kay (Planner), Tracie-Lee Camero (Planner), and Noriko Sauer (Leeward Planning Commission Secretary) APPLICANT: PABLO PENALOZA (SPP 20-000221) Application for a Special Permit to develop and operate a childcare center/preschool facility and construct a playground for student use and to develop and operate an "event venue"to be rented commercially on a two (2)-acre portion of a 5.3-acre parcel situated in the State Land Use Agricultural District. The subject property is located at 75-477 Hualalai Road, approximately 988 feet, east(mauka) of its intersection with Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway, Wai`aha 1st, North Kona, Hawaii, TMK: (3) 7-5-017: Portion of 045. Secretary's Note: "- - -" indicates indiscernible speech due to internet/technical difficulties or simultaneous talk. VITOUSEK: Okay, moving down to item number two, application for a Special Permit to develop and operate childcare center, preschool facility, and construct a playground for student use and develop and operate an event venue to be rented out commercially on a two-acre portion of a 5.3-acre parcel situated in the State Land Use Agricultural District. Subject property's located at 75-477 Hualalai Road, approximately 988 feet, east, mauka, of intersection with Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway, Ahupua`a is Wai`ahuWai`aha 1st, North Kona Moku, Hawaii Island, TMK: (3) 7-5-017: Portion of parcel 045. The applicant is Pablo Penaloza. Special Permit SPP 20-000221. We'll move forward with staff presentation from planner Alex Roy. Alex, please proceed. ROY: [indiscernible speech due to garbled audio] Okay, thank you Commissioners. Today I'll be presenting a Special Permit application by Pablo Penaloza. That's SPP 20-000221. Here's a location map of the subject parcel. In the red star you can see that it's about, it's, it's east of 1 EXHIBIT D Kailua-Kona and mauka of Hawaii Belt Road, or Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway, and is located just south of Innovations Public Charter School. Here's a Tax Map of the site and the parcel's outlined in red. So, the access you see which is actually referred to as Kakalina Extension. So, I want to be very clear about that. There's a nearby Kakalina Street, and that is not the road we're talking about. This is Kakalina Extension. So, the access to the property is off Hualalai Road and along the applicant's you can see that this is a parcel that has access, owned access, but it's also shared access with a number of parcels. Here's a zoom-in showing the easements and the subject parcel, which is marked as Lot B, 5.35- acres. And you can see that the access off Hualalai Road is a shared easement and it is 60-foot wide that currently has a 35-foot paved area. The easement ends at the north end of Lot B. So, this again, is called the Kakalina Extension. The applicant is requesting to develop and operate a preschool, childcare, afterschool care center on a 2-acre portion of the 5.3-acre subject parcel. The applicant currently operates the Alaka`i Academy, which is licensed for 72 students. That's located in old Kona Town. The applicant is looking to relocate the school to the new location that will accommodate the 72 students, and approximately 15 staff. The school will be housed in a set of buildings totaling approximately 10,000 square feet, and that consists of classrooms, bathrooms, cafeteria, kitchen, lobby, administrative office space, and storage. In addition to the buildings, a tent-like pavilion will be constructed for student use associated with school, such as outdoor performances and gatherings. Here's a County zoning map of the subject parcel outlined in red. As you can see, the subject parcel and a number of surrounding parcels are within Agricultural 5a, or 5-acre. South of the subject parcel is Agricultural 1-acre. Take note of the subdivision of RS-15 that's located kind of northeast of the subject parcel, about the, it's probably about 500 feet, and there's a number of other zoning designations across the street of the highway. We see an RS-7.5; these are residential. And then take note of the RA .5-a, which is residential agriculture subdivision located in the far northeast of the subject site. State Land Use is Agricultural, and all the surrounding parcels other than the subdivision are within the Agricultural District, across Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway is a segment of Urban. And then a rare occasion showing on our maps is a portion of rural State Land Use Rural District, and that's that RA-.5a that I noted before. The General Plan LUPAG map shows this area and the subject parcel pretty much entirely within the UE, and that's the Urban Expansion. Now a small segment of Medium Density Urban touches the subject parcel. The IAL, or Intensive Agricultural Lands, or Important Ag Lands, there's a section that's probably 2- or 3,000 feet away. So, the majority of this is within the full Urban Expansion area. Here's an aerial photograph of the subject parcel. This is pretty much in its current state. You see the paved access, which is Kakalina Extension off Hualalai Road, and then the subject parcel, which is completely barren of any development at this time. On the right-hand side of your screen, you see the Innovation School campus. 2 EXHIBIT D Here's a site plan and, showing the school building. The plan shows also an additional structure that, that's a home but that is not part of this,part of this proposal at this time. So, you can disregard that section. It's really just the school, you can see the parking, and the access from Kakalina. I know it's marked as Kakalina Street, but that's incorrect, it's Kakalina Extension, and they would drive up that and enter the property kind of on the north side where the parking is located. Here's a site plan of the school, showing the cross section and heights of the school. Kind of note that it's kind of open air in the middle and the next picture will show that. Here's a similar site plan of the school, classrooms, buildings,playground, and the open-air portion is in the middle. Here's a site photograph taken by myself when I visited the site, and you can see that it's completely barren of any development whatsoever. It is fenced in but there isno development at this time. Here's the Kakalina Extension. So, this is looking towards, the subject property will be on your left. This is looking towards their entrance. Here's from the Kakalina Extension looking, a view to the east, kind of up mauka of Hualalai Road. And then that same,just turned around, looking down Hualalai Road, view to the west. I just want you to take note that the, there are some minor improvements to the road entrance. And then here is the entrance from Hualalai Road looking up Kakalina Extension, and like I said, it's a 35-foot wide, approximately, paved path, paved access path road. So, at this time the Director's recommendation for SPP 20-000221 is approval with the stated conditions. I wanted to take a moment to address questions from Commissioner Van Pernis. He had three questions for Planning. I think I can answer them very quickly. Number one, "Did anyone from Planning go and inspect the property?" Yes. Number two, "Did Planning know that Kakalina Street starts off Nani Kailua in Kailua View Estates north of this and the Innovations properties?" Yes, but again, as I stated that really has no relevance because we're talking about Kakalina Extension, not Kakalina Street. "Did Planning consider the traffic at rush hours on Queen Ka`ahumani [sic] Highway and particularly the intersection of Queen K [Ka`ahumanu] and Hualalai Road mauka before making a recommendation to this application?" Yes. So, I'll end my presentation and would happily take questions from the Commissioners. VITOUSEK: Commissioner Van Pernis. VAN PERNIS: Yes, could you read and answer all of the first question rather than just the first half as you did. 3 EXHIBIT D ROY: "Did anyone from Planning go and inspect the property and the proposed access off Hualalai Road before recommendation was made?" Yes. VAN PERNIS: Thank you. VITOUSEK: Commissioners, are there any other questions relating to staff's presentation? Commissioner Carr Smith? CARR SMITH: Yeah, thank you. I've just written down a few things when I was reading the background report. It said that Department of Health Wastewater Division had no comment due to not enough information. What does that mean, Alex? ROY: I'm not sure. Maybe they didn't have enough information on the size of the building. I don't know. It's not really clear why they were unable to comment. They were provided the plans, they were provided the number of students, they were provided the location, so I can't speak to another agency's CARR SMITH: Yeah, yeah. ROY: Yeah, unfortunately, sorry. CARR-SMITH: Okay, so there's no follow up required on the ROY: No, there was no comments. I mean the applicant has stated that they'll be doing an individual wastewater system to accommodate, which would, of course, have to be permitted and approved by Department of Health. CARR SMITH: Right, right. Okay. Is, there's been a lot of information with all these, with these three applications so excuse me if I'm being repetitive or, or whatever. But they, they ask for the opportunity to have extra events at the property as well, and possibly a liquor license would be required. I was a little concerned and confused about having such a thing at a school. ROY: Uh, I think I can speak to that. In the beginning, Mr. Penaloza had a number of ideas, which is typical for these kinds of projects, but has since reduced that use to focus on the school. The extra activities, and he'll be able to kind of expand on that, which you know, which would modify, essentially modify the recommendation, but the idea is to build a school, build a playground, for school and, and activities that are typical for a school would be conducted, but the extra activities, it doesn't appear that that's being pursued at this time. But I think that Mr. Penaloza will be able to expand on that during his portion of the discussion. CARR-SMITH: Thank you, Alex. ROY: Yep. 4 EXHIBIT D VITOUSEK: Commissioners? Any other any questions for Planning Department staff? Okay. I have a question regarding the sewer, and seeing there is no sewer, is there an indication of, of any planning for sewer to serve this area? ROY: It wasn't indicated to me that there's any future plans for being sewerage up, say, Hualalai Road. You know, this Kakalina Extension is private property and easement, so I, I, there was nothing indicated to me of any future VITOUSEK: What, what is the, what was the sewer connection? Is it on [Queen] Ka`ahumanu? ROY: I think it would be Queen K Highway. Although it's not really close to the site. VITOUSEK: Alex, do [indiscernible comment due to simultaneous speech]. You know if Innovations Public Charter School is on individual wastewater systems? ROY: I'm sorry, I'd have to defer to my manager on that question. JACKSON: Chair Vitousek, I can look up that information if you give me about five minutes. VITOUSEK: Sure, yeah, go ahead. We'll have time to circle back on it. JACKSON: Thank you. VITOUSEK: Commissioners, any last questions of staff before I move on to the applicant's presentation? [None.] No? Okay. Applicant, Mr. Penaloza, please raise your right hand. Thank you. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter before the Leeward Planning Commission? PENALOZA: I do. VITOUSEK: Thank you. Please state your name and the town you live in. PENALOZA: My name is Pablo Penaloza, and I live in Kailua-Kona. VITOUSEK: Mahalo. You may proceed with any presentation that you have. PENALOZA: I didn't really prepare a formal presentation, but I wanted to thank everybody for your consideration. I did ask before the meeting started if there was a possibility to share my screen. I wanted to show you one quick thing. I don't know if it would be possible, but I can try. VITOUSEK: It is. PENALOZA: I was invited, I was instructed by my mechanical engineer that did all the water calculations not to have any testimony supporting the application because the meetings get too long, so I, couple weeks ago I posted a petition and within a few weeks we've got close to a 5 EXHIBIT D thousand people that have signed it. Let me show it. The petition is quite simple. We're trying to build a preschool, and by signing this petition you're telling the County that you support the project and you're asking the County to approve it. So, we're, we're very grateful for the community support. I know you don't see anyone coming up and speaking on behalf of this project, but I wanted to, to let you know that we have been very touched by the community support that we've received. I'll speak a little bit regarding the project. Yeah, initially I thought it is a big undertaking to build this building, and knowing the school operates Monday through Friday within school hours, I knew that it was going to be times in the day when and the weekends when the school was not going to be in use, and I thought that maybe I could use the space to accommodate community events, or perhaps do birthday party for the kids, something like that. It was never, in my mind, that there were going to be any kind of activity that required a liquor license per se, but, but it was my thought that we could take advantage of the building. But as we started through this project and we became aware of the major limitation was regarding water, water availability for, to build the school wasn't there, let alone to support additional projects or additional activities outside of the school. So, we, we concentrated all of our efforts exclusively on the school and I withdrew the portion of the application I was requesting rights to, to do the event activities or anything outside of the school operations just because I, I wanted to, to allocate those water resources to the school. Anything beyond that was, was just getting in the way of the application getting approved. But we're excited. We, we've been operating our preschool since 2014. We started out with four teachers and two students, and one of them was my two-year-old son at the time. And with a lot of work and effort over the years we've been able to grow the preschool. We, we have full enrollment, so we're close to the capacity of 72 students. We have about 12 employees at this time and the community has responded very well. We're excited with, with the program that we've been able to develop, and we hope to, to expand it and reach it by having our own facility. Right now, I'm in the old industrial and although that place has been wonderful for us in terms of allowing us a chance to, to get started and to develop the program, it's got its shortcomings. We don't have any outdoor space. We're in a little shopping center in Kaiwi Square and we, we share the parking lot with a laundry mat and couple of restaurants, and the outdoor space that we have is, is basically a fenced-off area on the back of the building in, in the parking lot. We have improved; we fenced it out, we, we put level flooring, and we put artificial grass and shades and everything, but nevertheless very, very limited space, outdoor space that the kids need. And I think the new facility will allow us to, to expand our offering, improve what we have created and really allow us to bring a richer and more [inaudible] program to the kids, and the families, and the community. So that's why we wanted to do this. It's been two, two years ago, maybe a little more than that, we bought this piece of property and we've been trying to, since then,put together this application. Happy to answer any questions you may have. VITOUSEK: Thank you very much, Mr. Penaloza. Appreciate your presentation. Commissioner DeFranco, please go ahead. 6 EXHIBIT D DEFRANCO: Thank you, Chair. Yes, Mr. Penaloza, I, yeah, I was also wondering a little bit about, and concerned about the idea of renting the space for other venues. So, you've taken that out of the application then? Is that my understanding? PENALOA: Yes. DEFRANCO: So, you would just use it specifically for fundraising events for your school; something like that. PENALOZA: Yeah, it would only be for school-related activities. Nothing else. The original application included things like allowing the community to use the space for classes, whether it'd be a yoga class, or if somebody wanted to teach ukulele after hours, or things like that. I'd also had plans to rent out the playground for birthday parties and I had included a couple other things that I wanted to put in to use the space outside of the school hours, but I withdrew all that. If we ever get the water resources and we can structure this differently, we might bring it up again in the future, but at this point, I just want to get this school approved. And that's all we're going to do. DEFRANCO: But you know, keeping it open for educational classes, for extra-curricular activity, maybe in the future would be something that you would do? PENALOZA: Yeah, I would consider it if we ever get the resources to, to do those kind of projects. The, the main limitation being water availability for each, for each activity that I include there's going to be some level of water usage, and we're counting the drops just to get this thing approved. And for me to expand beyond what we're, the preschool at this point, it, it's going to hinder our, our ability to even run the school with the amount of water that it's available for our property. DEFRANCO: I appreciate your commitment to our keiki. Thank you. PENALOZA: Thank you. VITOUSEK: Commissioner Van Pernis. VAN PERNIS: Yes, having been to the property, I have several questions that the staff has that they can answer, and have it point out that the question eleven refers to road shoulders, not showers. So, I would ask that my questions be read as in the previous application. ROY: Chair, I can proceed whenever. VITOUSEK: Yup. ROY: Okay, Mr. Penaloza, so these are questions for you from Commissioner Van Pernis. So, I'll ask the question and you can go ahead and try to answer. 7 EXHIBIT D So, "Mr. Penaloza, your application refers to future Kala-Kakalina Street. Isn't Kakalina Street in Kailua View Estates with access from " VITOUSEK: Let me, let me stop you there. ROY: Oh yes, thank you. VITOUSEK: Sorry, yeah, I'll stop you there. Again, the, as specified by Mr. Roy, the application refers to, erroneously refers to Kakalina Street, and the maps, we're discussing Kakalina Extension so we, we'd like to--that that there's no, there's no reference on that one. ROY: Okay, I, I figured it would be a waste of everybody's time to talk about a different road that has no bearing on this. VITOUSEK: Yep. Mr. Van Pernis. VAN PERNIS: If the full question could be read,you'll see it refers to the, not just to that Kakalina Street. It appears that Kakalina Street in Kailua View Estates can go through to the Kakalina Extension, and in fact, its anticipated that that will happen at some point. So, I would-- VITOUSEK: So, the question referring to whether or not the future extension of Kakalina Street to the Kakalina Extension, is that, is that the question? VAN PERNIS: That's the question. PENALOZA: I don't know if I can answer that one, but it seems like, from my understanding, there was a concept or an idea that at one point the Kakalina Extension will actually connect with the Kakalina Street, and that connects to Nani Kailua. But I, I know that that road doesn't exist right now, and it goes through several other properties, but I don't have any rights or interests over them so, I would, I wouldn't know how it'd come to pass and when. I, I think it's, there's a few other property owners that that Kakalina Extension would have to go through before it can actually connect to the actual Kakalina Road. If that's in some kind of a master plan within the Kailua-Kona future developments, I don't know. I don't know who, who would be making those kinds of decisions. I do know that the property tax has changed the address of my property from a Hualalai address to a Kakalina address, but that much I know. Nothing beyond that it's, I can add. VITOUSEK: Okay, thank you. Alex, would you mind giving a brief background on the Kakalina Street and the plan for a connection? ROY: Yes, there, there, I, after discussions with DPW, there was no plan, so I'm not sure what Commissioner Van Pernis is saying, and, if he's privy to information that we don't have. But this would have to cross one, two, three private parcels which have no deeded easements or access extension. It would also have to cross a, a private access road. It would have to cross a Wehilani Drive, and then it would have to cross the Innovations School completely. So, if there are plans for that, DPW didn't allude to that, and I found no indication on any maps or plans that show that 8 EXHIBIT D that is a, a real future plan. So that, that's, I have not found anything, so, cause when I first saw the street name, I too, looked and I, you know, if you follow it north of course you come to Kakalina Street. But then in my research I found no indication that there was any, any rights first of all, because again it crosses private property, crosses an access easement, crosses a road, crosses a school property, and then would, and then Mr. Penaloza's property doesn't actually attach to that. His right-of-way ends at the north side of his property. So again, I didn't find any indication of a future plan, and DPW did not comment or provide any comments on a future plan for expanding that road. VITOUSEK: Okay, and thank you very much Alex, and I'm just reminded, forgive me for my growing pains as Chair, but I should have taken a, given everybody an opportunity to take a bathroom break in between the applications. ROY: Oh, yeah. Take five if you need to. VITOUSEK: We'll take five minutes now and come back. Thank you. (Chairman Vitousek called a recess at 12:09 p.m. He called the hearing back to order at 12:16 p.m.) VITOUSEK: Right on. Sorry about that. DEFRANCO: Thank you. VITOUSEK: And hey, anybody, feel free to stop me and let me know if there's a need. Again, apologize. I'll definitely try to get that situated better next time. Commissioner Van Pernis, do you feel as though the discussion has adequately addressed the concerns that were raised in your, in your first two questions? VAN PERNIS: I'd like to point out that it is my information that the intervening properties are in an Urban Expansion area, and that Kakalina Street from Kailua View Estates would be extended only when those properties seek zoning. And that's not under the control of this applicant, so, I would take away question number two and I'm satisfied with the testimony so far. And I would ask that my additional questions be read that don't concern that Kakalina Street extension. VITOUSEK: Sure,please, Mr. Roy, please proceed. ROY: Okay. Question number three, skipping two. To preface, Mr. Van Pernis, or Commissioner Van Pernis said these may be questions for the traffic study consultant, but here you go Mr. Penaloza. Is he back on? Oh yeah, okay. VITOUSEK: Yeah, hold on a minute. Is the traffic consultant available to answer questions? VAN PERNIS: If he — 9 EXHIBIT D PENALOZA: No, my engineer is not on the, on the call. VITOUSEK: Okay, go ahead Alex. ROY: "There's more than 350 properties along Hualalai Road and in subdivisions that have access to and from it. There's also traffic on Hualalai Road from around Holualoa and points south. And also, a rush-hour traffic from Queen K Highway that uses Hualalai Road to try to get around the traffic jam near Lako Street on the Queen K past its intersection with Hualalai down to Henry Street. There's also traffic on Kakalina in Kailua View Estates. During rush hour morning, during rush hours morning and afternoon, the biggest traffic jam is in Kona in this area on the Queen K, with stopped traffic that emergency vehicles can't even get through, including the Queen K and Hualalai intersection. Were all these intersections, streets, highways, and traffic jams studied and considered in the traffic study?" PENALOZA: It is my understanding that the, the traffic study included a traffic count both on Queen Ka`ahumanu and the intersection with Hualalai Road. That was the main concentration of the traffic study. One thing to note about our particular school is that we have a different pick up and drop off pattern than you would see on a public school. For example, Innovation has a window between 15 to 25 minutes for pick up as well as drop off. So, two hundred of their kids get picked up within that window. School ends, all parents need to pick up their kids at that time. Our, our school is different. We are a pre-,pre-K, so we serve children ages two to five, and our drop off window is between seven when we open, all the way until about 9:30. And currently our lobby is fairly small, I would say between 10 by 15, or 10 by 20 at the most, feet, and we never have more than two families at any one time,picking up or dropping off. It's just people just trickle in. They have their own schedule. And same thing pick-up. And knowing the parents and knowing their desire for convenience to avoid traffic. I'm sure they'll avoid the heavy traffic hours because they can. Because we allow them to pick up on a more flexible schedule. But to, to address the question, I, from my understanding that was the intersection, the main focus of the traffic study, which was Hualalai Road and Queen Ka`ahumanu. ROY: Okay. A repeated number three, and I think I can answer this one. "Was any of the traffic study done during the COVID-19 lockdown when most people were staying at home, home [sic] and sheltering in place?" If you read page four of the Traffic Impact Analysis report, it clearly states that due to the COVID-19 pandemic, special considerations have been made to inflate the existing traffic volumes to include visitor and school-related traffic. So, Mr. Penaloza, if you'd also like to add anything to that about the traffic study during the COVID-19. PENALOZA: We knew that the traffic was not a normal pattern at the time we were getting ready to work on this application. We also knew that because of the number of children that we serve they would automatically trigger a traffic study, so we reached out to the County and asked whether we should proceed with the traffic study and submit a complete application, or whether we should hold off until that time when the traffic actually normalizes. At the time we didn't have any clear window on when will the traffic study, when the traffic patterns might, might become normal again, and the County advice was go ahead with the traffic study. And then, if 10 EXHIBIT D we feel that it's inadequate, we may put a condition there that we might want to have it reviewed or revised, or redone at a later point. So, we went ahead and to accommodate or to account for the, for the lower volumes, the engineer that did the traffic study basically inflated the numbers to, to create a more realistic scenario, but it's just a scenario. The counts were much, much lower than what the traffic study shows, but he purposely bumped up all the numbers to give you a more realistic picture. VAN PERNIS: Could I ask a couple follow up questions, Mr. Chair? VITOUSEK: Please, go ahead. VAN PERNIS: Wasn't the traffic study done in February of 2020? Mr. Penazola [sic]? VITOUSEK: It was done in June of 2020. June 16, 2020. VAN PERNIS: Oh, that's the ---when I'm asking when the actual work was done before summation. VITOUSEK: The actual work for the traffic study? VAN PERNIS: Yes. VITOUSEK: According to the traffic study, it was done on June 16, 2020. On page four of the traffic study. VAN PERNIS: Was Hualalai Road from mauka and makai studied in that traffic study? Or just the Hualalai on Mamalahoa intersection? Or excuse me, H61ualoa/Queen K intersection? Mr. Penzola [sic]? PENALOZA: Sorry, I was muted. I'm pulling up the traffic study here on my computer, and he did count it both Hualalai north and south, as well as Queen Ka`ahumanu north and south traffic, and studied both the left—the right turn deceleration, the left turn into Hualalai Road, as well as the right turn acceleration from Hualalai Road into the Queen Ka`ahumanu. All of those are part of the traffic study that was submitted. VAN PERNIS: And how many cars were on Mama—or on Hualalai Road during the rush hours of say 7:30 to nine? VITOUSEK: Commissioner Van Pernis, are there any questions that relate to this that you cannot get— VAN etVAN PERNIS: I'll withdraw that. [unintelligible cross talk between Mr. Van Pernis and Mr. Vitousek.] VAN PERNIS: I'll withdraw that question and ask that we go on to the next one. 11 EXHIBIT D ROY: I'd like to add that the County VITOUSEK: One second, guys. ROY: Go ahead, Chair, sorry. VITOUSEK: Just wanted, wanted to say that you know that, the information that we have and the traffic study is there for us to review, so if there are questions outside of the contents of the traffic study, by all means, but if we're asking questions that we have available to us in the traffic study and background report, then I think we need to move on in the interest of time. With that, Commissioner Van Pernis has withdrawn his question number three and we can move forward. Alex, is there a point of clarification you'd like to make? ROY: Yes, number one is that the County Traffic Division had no comment on this project. And number two, the State of Hawaii Department of Transportation provided a letter; said that the proposed project does not appear to significantly impact the state highway system, and that's after they've, they reviewed a revised Traffic Impact Analysis Study. So, we didn't receive any significant comments either from the State DOT or our County Traffic Division. VITOUSEK: Okay, thank you. With that, Mr. Van Pernis, are we, are we okay with moving forward to your questions regarding water? VAN PERNIS: Yes, question four, I think is appropriate. Well, question four will start to—let's go to question five about the water. VITOUSEK: Okay, let's proceed with question five. Thank you. ROY: Question five. "Only 400 gallons of public water are presently available, which is one unit,just enough to service the residence. The application says will go on the remainder of the property." Just, we did clarify that that's not being built. "Your engineer, Mr. Morrison, states that an average of twenty-two, uh, two thousand two hundred seventy, seventy [sic 2,270] gallons of water will be needed. It is stated or implied that the applicant is to find and arrange for additional needed water." Question, "Are you willing to agree to a condition that the school operation not be opened until that needed water is sourced and deliverable to the property?" PENALOZA: Yeah the, Mr. Morrison submitted two water calculation studies. One based on future counts, doing a basic calculation, which indicated that level of water consumption needed. And then he actually looked at actual consumption rate water at our facility. When he showed me those numbers, I, I knew something was a little off because I knew our water bill at our current facility didn't, wouldn't use that much water at our current facility. So, we, we average around 375 gallons to 350 gallons a month, I mean, per day on a monthly, over the month we average around that. So, there's a number of reasons for that. One, we don't really have landscape. Our current facility is all cement and concrete around us. Two, it seems like a lot of kids. The fact that we have, you know, 70 children at the school, but you need to take into consideration that roughly a third of our student body is in diapers, so they're not using the toilet 12 EXHIBIT D as much as you would expect some of the older kids to. Another, another reason is that although we do have a, a shower facility in case there is a, you know, a large accident that needs to be cleaned up, that is not something that the children are taking, you know, daily showers at school. So, we, based on what we currently use in terms of our existing operation, we feel that we could run the school with the water available to us. The County said that if we needed more water beyond that, that they would not be supplying it to us, that we have to go source our own water. Or that we have to use catchment system or try to procure water some other way. That's going to be on us, and we, we're okay with, with that. But I think we can begin the project and open the school from day one based on the water available to us at this time. VAN PERNIS: May I ask a couple of follow up questions? VITOUSEK: Go ahead. VAN PERNIS: Well, nevertheless, your application to which Morrison says you need over 2,000 gallons of water a month, and you have 15 adults you're referring to in the application; teachers, etcetera. And if you're going to use a household allocation for gallons, are you not going to build a house, or are you gonna get other water before you build the house? PENALOZA: Yeah, with regards VITOUSEK: I'm going to I'm going to say that, that I believe that's been, been addressed so far, that the house is not in any plans at the moment. What we're reviewing is the school. Mr. Penaloza believes they can operate within the 400-gallon limit of the school. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Penaloza. PENALOZA: No that, that's correct, and VITOUSEK: Ok. PENALOZA: I understand that we don't have enough water to, to build a house. Maybe one day we will be able to, but at this point if we were to apply for a permit to build our own home over there, I will probably be on catchment because there is no water. VITOUSEK: Okay. Tha thank you, Mr. Penaloza. Director Kern? KERN: Tha-thank you, Mr. Chair, I just wanted to add a little bit to this. We've seen a similar situation in other areas on the island as well with charter schools and water is generally always a challenge. That's why we conditioned it this way, that you know, they can't exceed what DWS is allowable in the water unit, and if they need more, they'll have to provide a different source of potable water. We have other schools that truck in water to provide that, so it is potable, and then as far as landscaping and the irrigation, they could use the catchment system. So, the conditions were made in the manner to have that flexibility, but to maintain the, you know, the purpose of 13 EXHIBIT D that, one to maintain the DWS system, and also to have potable water for the students. Thought that might be helpful for the conversation. VITOUSEK: Is the, is the issue just the water commitment for the, for the property? Or is the issue the amount of white stuff coming through the pipe? ROY: It's, it's actually related to the zoning. DWS has said that because it's like one unit per parcel, so they have only allowable one unit. VITOUSEK: Yeah. So, it's a water commitment issue pertaining to the zoning establishing one unit, not, not an actual limitation on actual water coming through the pipe. ROY: Exactly. KERN: That's correct. VITOUSEK: Commissioner Van Pernis. VAN PERNIS: Yes, we can move on to the next question. VITOUSEK: Yes. ROY: Okay. VITOUSEK: Are we on six now? ROY: Six, although, oh okay. I'll read it out. "The application says that you--the application says that you operate will involve" I'm sorry, the verbiage here is a little bit— VITOUSEK: itVITOUSEK: "Your operation will involve " ROY: "The application says that your operation will involve up to 87 people," so it's 72 children, 15 adults, "which to me means 87 cars. During the morning and the afternoon rush hours turning from substandard Hualalai Road, turning onto what your application refers to as `future Kaka`iaina Road' and then " VITOUSEK: Actually, you know what, Alex, let me stop you there again. I apologize. Just reading this same time you are. The question that comes after the end of this, "Would you be willing to...limit conditions such as other events," and that's already been established that the applicant's willing to limit future events. ROY: Okay. VITOUSEK: Mr. Van Pernis, would you be okay with moving forward on that? 14 EXHIBIT D VAN PERNIS: If the applicant has agreed to limit events as I request already, then I can withdraw that question and we can go on to number seven. VITOUSEK: Okay, yeah, the applicant has stated they're withdrawing events from the application. So, we'll go on to number seven. ROY: So, number seven, "The Planning Department, in its proposed Condition 7 requires construction of the proposed development within five years of the issuance of a Special Use Permit. And in the proposed Condition 15 refers to the possibility of an unspecified extension of time with conditions at the sole discretion of the Planning Director, if you apply for it. Instead of those two proposed conditions, would you agree to one condition for completion of construction of the school operation within ten years from the issuance of the permit, with the permit expiring if there's no construction finished in those ten years? In other words, a ten-year sunset provision. This would bring more certainty to the project instead of an application and the future discretion of the Director whomever that may be." PENALOZA: Sure, I would. I mean, I hope we'd be able to have a campus in the next couple of years. VITOUSEK: Okay. Moving on to eight. ROY: Okay. "Who owns and maintains the paved portion of Kakalina Extension from Innovations past this property to Hualalai?" VITOUSEK: I think that's been answered already. They are private landowners. If it's okay-- VAN PERNIS: I could-- VITOUSEK: --we can continue. Mr. Van Pernis? VAN PERNIS: Yes, I don't know who those private owners are. Is it this applicant, Innovations, someone else, or a combination? ROY: In my presentation I showed that the applicant actually owns, it's a flag lot, so he owns a portion of Kakalina Extension. There are a number of attached right of ways and allowances for other owners to access that, including Innovations. But yes, Mr. Penaloza owns a portion of that. VITOUSEK: Commissioner Carr Smith? CARR SMITH: Thank you. I'm, I'm just puzzled by this whole procedure we're going through, and the rest of us commissioners are sitting here quietly listening to Mark's list of questions being repeated by staff, and then back and forth, and he has follow-up questions, which he seems to articulate just fine. It seems like this is a waste of time and I can't not say that. VITOUSEK: I apologize for the concern. We're trying to give Commissioner Van Pernis every opportunity to express himself in a way that he's comfortable with to accommodate any potential 15 EXHIBIT D disability. We will give every commissioner the opportunity to speak. This is something that was requested and we're doing our best to accommodate. You know, it is a work in progress, and we're trying to do our best to accommodate. I agree, it is time consuming, and I would like to try to move forward and as expedient as possible, Commissioner Carr Smith. CARR SMITH: Yeah,just for the record, I think it would have been appropriate if it would have been explained at the front of this meeting what occurred and why this is happening so that there's a little more clarity, and perhaps understanding. VITOUSEK: Sure, yeah, apologies. CARR SMITH: Thank you. VITOUSEK: My fault, I should have taken the time. You know, for me it's hard to know when we can speak on anything outside of what's been really agendized, and so that's my fault, but we are, we are trying to do something in order to accommodate an ADA request for a commissioner. Commissioner DeFranco? DEFRANCO: Yeah, I'm just going to have to support Nancy on this. As much as I understand that we're in a difficult situation, this is taking up a lot of time, none of these questions were seen by any of us. It seems like the County, you know, that he supplied all these things and we're sent an email during a meeting with all of these questions, and a lot of them are repetitive and irrelevant, and this is what we've brought up before. This was the problem we were having before. We're still having the problem. I have to say that. VITOUSEK: Yep, and we are, we are doing our best to work through and eliminate repetitive questions. I understand your frustration. You know, it, it's not easy; the format's not easy, it's not difficult, it's, it's something that we are trying to work through in order to accommodate an ADA request, which I think we have to do in order to accommodate for what those needs for a commissioner. Now, the content of those questions, we're trying to do our best to monitor and determine what's repetitive, and I understand those concerns, and we are trying to limit the repetitive questions. And going forward, I hope that we can improve. DEFRANCO: So just to be,just to be clear, not only does he get to write all of his questions down so that complies with the ADA, then on top of that, he gets to ask more questions on the questions that he's already asked? And those are being done from the floor. So, I'm not sure where, where the lines are here at all. So VITOUSEK: Sure, you know, Commissioner Van Pernis has the, the right to ask questions. We're providing him the right to ask questions. If the questions are unnecessarily repetitious, and some of them are, we're doing our best to eliminate those and to boil them down. Every Planning Commissioner will have the opportunity to ask any questions that they need. I apologize for the extra time it takes in order to make this accommodation, but we're doing the best that we can in order to facilitate it. I'm with you; I understand it takes longer, I understand it's more difficult, but we do want to give every opportunity to accommodate this ADA request. So, with that, we 16 EXHIBIT D will continue and do everything that we can to move forward in an expedited manner so that the other commissioners can have the opportunity to provide their mana`o. Commissioner Van Pernis, please proceed. VAN PERNIS: Yes, I'm eliminating question nine and ten, and we can go to eleven of the fourteen, and again, eleven has a typo in it that should say "shoulders" instead of"showers," and I gave these questions to staff today, not earlier. VITOUSEK: Yep, yep. ROY: We didn't get the questions until this morning at 9:00. VITOUSEK: This is, this is a temp--I'll allow Commissioner Van Pernis to ask these questions. So, Alex, if you would, would proceed with question eleven. ROY: Number eleven. "Hualalai Road doesn't have a shoulder where Kakalina intersects, right? Would you be willing to build shoulders on Hualalai Road fifty feet both ways at its intersection with Kakalina?" PENALOZA: Would I be willing to build shoulders fifty feet wide both ways? At the intersection of Kakalina and Hualalai Road? Is that the question? ROY: That is the question. VITOUSEK: Yeah. VAN PERNIS: Not fifty feet wide. Just shoulders as DOT may require. PENALOZA: I understand that they looked at my application and they didn't think those improvements were required. They certainly were not asked of me. VITOUSEK: And so, it's totally okay for you to say that you would not be willing to do that. PENALOZA: Yeah, I, I would not be, at this point, no. VITOUSEK: Okay. Number twelve. ROY: "There are curves on Hualalai Road both above and below its intersection with Kakalina, correct?" VITOUSEK: I would strike that one as irrelevant and move on to thirteen. ROY: "The Kakalina-Hualalai intersection is not very visible from Hualalai Road both above and below that intersection, correct?" 17 EXHIBIT D VITOUSEK: Again ROY: "Would you be willing to install turn lanes on Hualalai Road?" VITOUSEK: Okay, you can, you're welcome to answer the question in the same way you did the last time. PENALOZA: No. VITOUSEK: Okay, moving on to question fourteen. ROY: Last question. "Would you be opposed to a site visit by the Planning Commission here, during a rush hour, say 4:30 or so, is the afternoon involving Queen K, Hualalai Road, both ends of Kakalina Street, and this property?" PENALOZA: No, the County's welcome to conduct any visits whenever they, they want. VITOUSEK: Okay, thank you. Are there any further questions from Commissioner Van Pernis? VAN PERNIS: Comments, but no further questions. VITOUSEK: Okay. Any other commissioners? [None.] Okay, seeing no further questions, is there a motion to be made on the application that's before us? Commissioner Van Pernis? VAN PERNIS: Yes, I want to point out that I'm not opposed to a school at this location, it's appropriate, but I do think all the facts concerning what special conditions should we add, specifically in regards to traffic, are not presented to us adequately, and therefore I would move for a deferral for a site visit so we can see the terrible danger and rush that's the intersection of Hualalai and Kakalina intersection. I think we need a site visit. I think we need shoulders. I think we need possibly turn lanes, but certainly shoulders. So, I would, my motion is to defer and have a site visit involving the subject property, Hualalai and the Kakalina Street Extension, not both ends of Kakalina. And VITOUSEK: Thank you Commissioner VAN PERNIS: --I think that the applicant has indicated he's unopposed. VITOUSEK: Okay. There's a motion on the floor; can we have a second so we may proceed with discussion? Keep in mind we don't have to agree with the motion or to second it. It's a procedural step so we can get to the discussion and vote. Is there a second? Once again, a second is required in order for us to move forward, but you do not have to agree with the motion in order to second. KERN: Mr. Chair,point of clarification with regarding Robert's Rule of Order. If a motion is made and it's not seconded, the motion dies. 18 EXHIBIT D VITOUSEK: Okay. Thank you. Any seconds? [None.] Okay, seeing none, moving forward with a second—another motion? Commissioner Carr Smith? CARR SMITH: Thank you. I move that the application for Special Permit Docket Number 20- 000221 be approved based on the Planning Director's recommendation with one change in paragraph one of the recommendation, the third line after "for student use."Delete the words "and to develop and operate an event venue to be rented commercially." So, those words are deleted, and the sentence carries on. Which shall be adopted. [Indiscernible simultaneous speech of unknown speakers.] KANUHA: Second. VITOUSEK: Second by Commissioner Kanuha. Discussion? Commissioner Van Pernis? VAN PERNIS: I've been to the property on both public roads. I don't know whether any the rest of you have. I've driven up and down Hualalai Road for 27 years when I lived there, and this is an appropriate site for a school, but we do need to put in special conditions about the, what I'll call a terrible intersection of Hualalai and Kakalina Street Exception [sic]. You can't see it, there's curves above and below, there's no shoulders on Hualalai. I understand the desire to help a school along, and I'm not adverse to that, but we should not be throwing the public, the users of Mamalahoaor Hualalai, all the inter—all the subdivisions off of Hualalai, and Queen K, we cannot throw that part of the public under the bus in favor of this school. I think a school can be allowed, but I think there has to be special consideration and special conditions made for this intersection. It requires signage, it requires shoulders, it may even require a turn lane, I don't know. But I think the traffic study is suspect having been done during the COVID lockdown periods, and I can say that traffic on Hualalai is often bumper to bumper during the times when the school says it's going to have people show up. I point out that Innovations as two accesses, one off Kakalina, and one off Queen K. This proposal's only for one access. I think we need a site visit; you all need a site visit because it's so obvious when you go see that intersection. And I think that we're not doing our job if we don't consider the public who uses Hualalai Road and we don't see the problems with this intersection, not that it prevents the school, but it must be dealt with. Innovations uses that to [Indiscernible comments due to simultaneous speech.] ROY: I mean no, there was none [to someone offscreen]. VITOUSEK: Commissioner Van Pernis, we hear you. Commissioner Newberg, go ahead. NEWBERG: Thank you, Chair. Having driven Hualalai Road within the last two weeks,just wanted to comment that I'll be supporting this motion, and that I also trust the professionals that put together this background reports. I would like to commend folks that try to put forward these projects. I believe it will be a better use of space where the new location will be on Hualalai Road, as compared to old industrial. Thank you. 19 EXHIBIT D VITOUSEK: Thank you, Commissioner Newberg. Commissioners, any other item discussion? Commissioner Carr Smith? CARR SMITH: Yeah, I agree with what Max just said. I, I support the idea of this preschool. Thank you, Mr. Penaloza, for doing this. I think it's insulting for any commissioners to accuse other commissioners of not knowing where this project is and what the situation's like around there. I believe Condition Number 8 states that the applicant needs to abide by whatever DPW requires in terms of access, so I'm comfortable with proceeding. Thank you. VITOUSEK: Okay, are there any other questions or are we—comments? [None.] Okay, seeing none, let's proceed with roll call. You're on mute, Alex. ROY: Yeah, sorry, I just want to clarify, this is approve with amendments to cut out and to develop and operate an event venue to be rented commercially, and that's the only change? [Several nods by commissioners.] Okay. So, I'll take roll call. Commissioner Carr Smith? CARR SMITH: Aye. ROY: Commissioner Kanuha? KANUHA: Aye. ROY: Commissioner DeFranco? DEFRANCO: Aye. ROY: Commissioner, Vice Chair Newberg? NEWBERG: Aye. ROY: Commissioner Van Pernis? VAN PERNIS: Without appropriate additional conditions, my vote is no. ROY: And Faith is, and then Chair Vitousek. VITOUSEK: Aye. ROY: Motion carries five to one. VITOUSEK: Thank you, Mr. Penaloza. We appreciate your time. You will be notified of the decision in writing. PENALOZA: Thank you very much. 20 EXHIBIT D VITOUSEK: Have a great rest of your day. PENALOZA: I will. Thank you so much. VITOUSEK: Aloha. The hearing ended at 12:56 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Kim Tanaka Secretary to Boards and Commissions 21 EXHIBIT D