HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-11-21 Regular Session minutes
1
HAWAI‘I COUNTY BOARD OF ETHICS
MINUTES – REGULAR SESSION
Wednesday, August 11, 2021
10:04 a.m. to 1:52 p.m.
Hawai‘i County Building
25 Aupuni Street
County Council Chambers
Hilo, Hawai‘i 96720
Members and Staff Present:
David Wiseman, Chair
Larry Heintz, Vice Chair
Denise Nakanishi, Member
Kelly Valenzuela, Member
Amy Self, Member
Sinclair Salas-Ferguson, Deputy Corporation Counsel
J Yoshimoto, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Section Chief
Liza Osorio, Secretary
1. CALL TO ORDER (10:04 a.m.)
Mr. Wiseman called the meeting to order at 10:04 a.m.
2. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (10:04 a.m.)
Due to technical difficulties the beginning of the meeting, as well as Ms. Nancy Carr-
Smith’s statement was not recorded. But her statement was provided post meeting via
e-mail.
Ms. Carr-Smith: Good morning and thank you for allowing me to provide testimony
today two of your agenda items. My name is Nancy Carr Smith
and I am speaking on behalf of myself as a former member of the
Leeward Planning Commission. First, on agenda item 5a, which is
your continued review of whether or not a Leeward Planning
Commissioner violated Section 2-83 of the Code of Ethics, that
being Fair Treatment. As I am sure you have heard, the Leeward
Planning Commission voted at their July meeting to make a
recommendation to the County Council to support removal of Mr.
Van Pernis from the Leeward Planning Commission. Four of the 6
commissioners voted to recommend removal. There was one
abstention from a new commissioner and Mark voted no.
In addition, and most importantly the County Council Planning
Committee voted on August 3 to support the Mayors request to
have Commissioner Van Pernis removed from the Leeward
Planning Commission. Five of the 8 Council members voted to
remove, and one was absent. Mr. Van Pernis’s behavior has been
front and center for many people to review, and I certainly hope
2
that you folks took the time after your previous meeting, to review
the video of the meetings that Ms. Hickey referred to in her
request. The behavior speaks for itself and the people who have
had to put up with this bad behavior over the past year and a half
have had enough, and it really is time to put a stop to this person
being in the position of representing the County/Community. I
would think that if you watched the video, you would see for
yourself that Commissioner Van Pernis definitely treated Ms.
Hickey unfairly. In terms of your Agenda item 4c which has to do
with some County Council members voting against an applicant
that the Mayor had recommended for the Leeward Planning
Commission, because of her profession. Some people don’t seem
to understand that Realtors have a natural interest in planning,
permitting and land use. The Planning Commission is a good fit for
Realtors, because they tend to have a level of understanding of the
subject matter that some others may not. Some people
automatically think that Realtors are only interested in
development which is simply not true. Realtors also have a natural
tendency to be drawn to your Board of Ethics, because ethics is a
value that our industry is driven by, so again, we understand it. I
agree that if County Council members did vote based on the
applicant’s profession, as I believe they actually said on the record,
then I think they should be reprimanded only so that it doesn’t
happen again. Thank you for listening.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you for that very informative and up-to-date current status
of the situation. Do any members have any questions?...There
being none I’m sure this matter will be up for discussion among
the board members. Thank you ma’am.
3. APPROVAL OF THE REGULAR SESSION MINUTES OF June 9, 2021
(10:11 a.m.)
Mr. Heintz: Page 29 of the minutes, line 19, where I’m speaking. On line 19
which begins “subsequently voting for the candidate Rodenhurst”,
that line, the beginning of the next sentence, “the” should be
deleted and “members” should be capitalized. And then line 24, the
line that begins “demonstrated prejudgment” should be ‘comma,
bias and or invited a concern of a tainted vote. And then on line 26,
the 2nd to the last word on that line “it” should be removed. Thank
you.
Mr. Wiseman: Very well. The staff will take note of those amendments, make the
appropriate changes. Also on the page I’m looking at, which is
dated April 12, which should be June 9, is that correct…I was not
3
Vice Chair, I was Chair, so that would have to be changed.
Ms. Self: This is Amy, I will not be voting because I wasn’t here at the last
meeting.
Mr. Wiseman: Okay very well.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Heintz moved to approve the minutes. Ms. Nakanishi
seconded the motion. All members, excluding Ms. Self, voted aye.
4. NEW BUSINESS (10:14 a.m.)
a. Petition No. 2021-07: Review of a petition requesting that the County of
Hawai‘i cease and desist any and all acts to Usurp Jurisdiction over Crown
and Government lands.
Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Vicente, you can go ahead, you filed a substantial document
but you can go ahead and make a short statement, you are limited
to a few minutes.
Mr. Vicente: Good morning my name is Dwight Vicente, I’m representing the
Hawaiian Kingdom. The history that’s before us is a convoluted
history, dating back to 1875 with the so-called reciprocity treaty, or
treaty of reciprocity, done by three U.S. citizens, Fish, Allen &
Carter. It’s not based on Article 2, Section 2 of the U.S.
Constitution. The treaty is based on the North West ordinance of
July 1787, this is a non-law because with the adoption of the U.S.
Constitutions September 1787 it was reduced to Article 4 Section 3
Clause 1 and 2. 2 reads that the congress shall have power to
dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting
the territory or other property belonging to the U.S. The belonging
meaning prior to September 1787. What they did was they’ve been
applying em, you can go back to President Monroe in 1820, he
appointed John C. Jones as the agent for the U.S. And he sent over
the missionary family and the U.S. Navy as part of this colonial
policy. As matter of fact, he was one of the three stooges that
wrote the Northwest Ordinance which is a plan, it is called the
Jefferson, Monroe and Dane plan. And it was only a Plan dealing
with the Ohio River Valley and this dates back to the Continental
Congress, where the Continental Congress had promised the
individuals that fought in the Revolutionary War, they would pay
em with homestead on Indian Land in the Ohio River Valley. So
that’s why that plan is in effect. But it’s limited to the Ohio River
Valley. What they did was they extended to the 1875 Reciprocity
Treaty. And that’s how the U.S. took over. Given the U.S. Citizens
that were here under a fake treaty, rights as if they were in the
4
Ohio River Valley. I think the word is “comity”. They ask to
participate with the Kingdom’s Government, the right to vote
under the 1887 Bayonet Constitution which they forced upon King
Kalākaua. With that, they also amended the treaty to include a
lease for Pearl Harbor which is invalid under Article 1, Section 8,
Clause 17, which limits it to the 13 States. Under Article 1, Section
2, Clause 3, of the U.S. Constitution. U.S. Military bases are within
the U.S. not under that Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3. Not beyond
in a foreign country. They cannot even do it by a treaty. So what
the County Charter does…
Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Vicente, excuse me. Can you finish your summation? Your
time is limited.
Mr. Vicente County Charter, Section 1-2 Geographical Limits, they say that the
whole island is the County of Hawai‘i which is not true. The 1898
Joint Resolution limits it to the 1,750,000 acres of crown and
government lands that was illegally ceded to the US by the Banana
Republic of Hawai‘i. Now the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act
which is based on the North West Ordinance is limited to the
1,750,000 acres only and it’s in Section 4 of the Admission Act.
The State of Hawai‘i was created to administer the Hawaiian
Homes Commission Act which is the 1,750,000 acres only so the
County Charter cannot even go beyond that. There’s no authority
to even go beyond the joint resolution, no amendment. And then
you have the…
Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Vicente, your time is running out, can you just close your
statement please.
Mr. Vicente: So the land laws here is based on the 1840 Hawaiian Kingdom
Constitution and the 1840 Mahele which lands are crown and
government lands as the title, and the sole owner. And all lands are
subject to native rights. The County Council and the Planning
Department doesn’t recognize native rights to the land. That’s all
lands…
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you. Is that your summation?
Mr. Vicente: I’m gonna reserve the rights to this kingdom.
Mr. Wiseman: Alright, very well. Mr. Vicente I have a question, by what
authority do you claim to represent the Hawai‘i Kingdom
Jurisdiction?
5
Mr. Vicente: I’m a member of the Kingdom. We are within the Hawaiian
Kingdom. By the way I forgot to say that this meeting is not being
on the ceded land, Hawaiian Homes. It’s being held…
Mr. Wiseman: But you claim that you represent them, usually attorneys represent
someone, someone else. What authority did anyone authorize you
to make this petition or represent them?
Mr. Vicente: As a member of the Hawaiian Kingdom, I have the ability and the
liability to protect this Kingdom.
Mr. Wiseman: I see. Tell me, what section of the Hawai‘i County Code of ethics
do you claim was violated?
Mr. Vicente: There saying things that are not true…
Mr. Wiseman: But we, the Board of Ethics has a very narrow mission here. We
deal with County Employees, Elected Officials of the County, to
see if they’re in compliance or any violation of the County of
Ethics. We cannot go outside that. I mean, your presentation,
verbal and written was very enlightening. It’s very informative on
the history of Hawai‘i, and the background, but we cannot deal
with that. It seems like you might have a case in court for the
courts to decide, but the Board of Ethics, it seems like its outside
of our jurisdiction. Unless you cite a specific code section then we
can consider that.
Mr. Vicente: Well the code, what I’m dealing with is first of all, the County is
limited to Hawaiian Homes so they have to operate under the
Hawaiian Homes Commission Act of 1920 as amended in 1921.
The Hawaiian Kingdom which you’re usurping power over right
now, even having this meeting in the Hawaiian Kingdom, raises
some not only ethical but criminal acts that you’re involved in.
Mr. Wiseman: But you are petitioning the Code of Ethics for something. I mean,
you’re petitioning this Board. Pursuant to the Code of Ethics,
which we’re in a quandary as to what Code Section you are,
bringing this forward. At this time I’ll ask, any other members
have questions or concerns?
Mr. Heintz: I guess my question is, I’m sympathetic with the view that Hawai‘i
was forcibly, the Hawaiian Kingdom was forcibly overthrown by
the U.S. Government, during its colonial period. And so if I’m
understanding your thinking, this petition is against the Federal
Government of the United States, it is against the Governor and the
Hawai‘i State Government. It is against the County, the Mayor and
all officers of the County of Hawai‘i. Is against the members of
6
this board and it, again if I’m following, then we have no
jurisdiction to do anything. Including, response to your petition.
Am I understanding that right?
Mr. Vicente: Your questionable jurisdiction is limited to the Section 4
Admission Act Compact which is the Hawaiian Homes
Commission Act, and the lands that the Crown and Government
lands that was illegally ceded that they re-branded as Hawaiian
Homes. So by going beyond that limit, you’re in violation by usurp
and jurisdiction.
Mr. Heintz: Okay, so are all the parties I listed in violation, because, since the
overthrow?
Mr. Vicente: They’re not operating under the U.S. Constitution, I believe you
even, you took an oath to the U.S. Constitution but if you read the
Steinbeck’s first message in the 1950 Constitution Convention, he
stated the creation of the State of Hawai‘i is based on the
Northwest Ordinance of July 1787, so you cannot take an oath to
the U.S. Constitution because you’re not there. You’re under the
Northwest Ordinance. Which actually, has no force and effect of
law once the U.S. Constitution was adopted on September 1787.
Because as it reads, Article 4, Section 3 Clause 1 and 2 deals only
with the Northwest Ordinance mainly, and then all the property
that they acquired prior to September 1787. So there’s no
amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Nor does the Northwest
Ordinance carry over. One of the strangest things I think the
Continental Congress is still existence today because they last met,
that I read, was in the year 1800 and the U.S. constitution was
already in effect so they secretly meeting as I understand even til
today.
Mr. Heintz: Thank you Mr. Vicente.
Mr. Wiseman: Any other members have any questions?...Mr. Vicente, have you
ever filed a case in court regarding these issues?
Mr. Vicente: The courts here, as Sai v. Clinton and Sai v. Trump, the political
question which dates back to the Continental Congress, there is no
jurisdiction for the Courts, even the State Courts doesn’t have
jurisdiction, only over Hawaiian Homes. And the U.S. Courts
doesn’t have jurisdiction except for applying the North West
Ordinance beyond its limits.
Mr. Wiseman: How do you know they don’t have jurisdiction have you tested
that?
7
Mr. Vicente: Well the U.S. Constitution limits its jurisdiction.
Mr. Wiseman: No but that’s your interpretation. Courts interpret the constitution
and if you haven’t gone to court with this, it’s only your opinion
what would exist.
Mr. Vicente: Well the constitution doesn’t give the court’s jurisdiction over the
Continental Congress. There in absolute congress. The only way to
get rid of the Continental Congress is with the barrel over the gun
as stated in Declaration of Independence.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you Mr. Vicente. Any other members have any
questions?...There being none. Okay thank you for your testimony
Mr. Vicente. At this time, do I hear any motions from the
members? There being none, the Chair will make a motion to
dismiss this petition based on lack of jurisdiction.
Ms. Self: Second.
Mr. Wiseman: Motion has been made and seconded. Any discussion? There being
none, we’ll call for vote. All in favor of dismissing this petition for
lack of jurisdiction say Aye. Petition 2021-07 is hereby dismissed.
Mr. Vicente, I wish you luck in your challenges that you stated and
thank you for your time.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Wiseman moved to dismiss the petition for lack of
jurisdiction. Ms. Self seconded the motion. All members voted aye. (10:28 a.m.)
b. Petition No. 2021-08: Review of a petition requesting an informal advisory
opinion from a County Employee seeking guidance on potential conflicts.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair, we just had some information from Mr. Hansen. Our staff
just called him and he actually would like to withdraw.
Mr. Wiseman: Oh he’s going to withdraw. Very well. Okay we’ll consider
petition 2021-08 at the request of the petitioner that it is hereby
withdrawn.
Petition withdrawn (10:33 a.m.)
c. Petition No. 2021-09: Review of a petition alleging that members of the County
Council are in violation of the Hawai‘i County Code and Hawai‘i County Charter.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair I think you can begin with the petitioner’s request to
postpone, or request for continuance.
8
Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Asis are you there?
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair, the petitioner submitted a written request via email to
continue this til September.
Mr. Wiseman: What was the basis of the request?
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair we have email that was forwarded to all of the board
members, does somebody have the email I can read it…Board
member Heintz has it.
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah I haven’t seen it. I did recall seeing the email come in but I
haven’t…
Mr. Heintz: I can briefly summarize if you like. The petitioner is on the
mainland due to a medical problem with an immediate - close
family member and she felt that it was inappropriate for her to deal
with this by zoom when she’s with her family…serious health
problems.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you. Petitioners request for continuance…
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair because the petitioner was able to submit that request for
continuance I believe that procedurally this Board should hear the
respondent’s opinion on that request as well? Before making a
decision to grant it or not.
Mr. Wiseman: Are the respondents present?
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: There’s three of them.
Mr. Wiseman: Yes, by all means, we should hear from them on the, and this is
just on, not on the merits now, just on the continuance
request…Please state your name and proceed, give us your
position on the continuance.
Mr. Inaba: Aloha, Holeka Inaba, I’m one of the respondents to this petition. I
represent North Kona on the County Council and I believe Ms.
Asis’s petition and the corresponding letter kinda gives her insight
as to what her concerns are, there’s…I believe seven pages to that
application that would give you folks more than enough
information to make a decision today. We’re here from Kona and I
ask that we take this matter up, or at least allow us to share our
stance and our mana’o on this petition today.
9
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you. Ma’am do you have anything to add?
Ms. David: Aloha Chair Wiseman, yes I do. Mahalo for this opportunity. I do
also believe that given the statements of the petitioner in her seven
page document does lay out here petition quite well and I really
feel, as does Mr. Inaba that, we are here and if you would grant us
the permission to say our, state our position here today. Whether
you proceed with a decision or not or postpone, I think it would be
a good thing for you folks to hear us today. Thank you.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you. I would defer to our legal counsel if we could hear
testimony from them without the petitioner being present.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair before we do that, Councilmember Villegas I believe would
like to say something.
Mr. Wiseman: Oh, by all means, yes proceed Councilwoman.
Ms. Villegas: Aloha commission members, thank you for being here today. It’s a
big job that you have, sitting in these positions and taking into
consideration, ethics complaints and all of the expansive issues that
that covers. I just wanted to say that I concur with the opinion of
my colleagues and ask that we take this petition up today. You
have three council members before you who drove from Kona,
we’ve taken time to prepare our statements and our taking this
seriously. And we ask that in the interest of County resources and
this time that we are undergoing such challenges that we be
allowed to and that you in your wise judgment consider taking this
case today regardless of the participation of the petitioner and that
we be allowed to state our case and we be able to move forward as
there are so many dire circumstances facing our County at this
time and it is our truest intentions to serve our constituents and our
community so thank you for taking that into consideration.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you councilwoman.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: And Chair there is one more respondent online that would like to
speak to that motion. Councilmember Kleinfelder.
Mr. Wiseman: Yes, councilwoman you may proceed.
Mr. Kanealii-
Kleinfelder: Aloha Board of Ethics, this is Matt Kanealii-Kleinfelder,
Councilmember for District 5 in Kona. I concur with my fellow
10
colleagues and I believe a lot of time and energy has gone into
getting us here today and many of us have very tight schedules and
we moved a lot of appointments to be here today. So, I concur with
my colleagues and I’d like to see some forward movement on this
rather than a continuance. Mahalo for your time.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you councilman…Is there anyone else?
Mr. Heintz: Mr. Chairman? This is Larry Heintz. I have a question for our legal
counsel…If we move ahead and hear from the County Council
members on this initial petition and this initial petition is charging
a violation of 2-83a3 I believe which is a problem of not being
treated fairly, fair and impartial treatment and really central to her
charge is that when she was nominated for that commission she
was not, she was voted unanimously to be approved and then at a
subsequent meeting of the council in which she was advised that
she needn’t be there, there was a subsequent vote that went against
her, which is unprecedented and she had no opportunity to testify,
which is the core of her complaint. And if now we consider, we do
not allow her to postpone her request so that she does not make the
presentation and yet the respondents, and I have questions for the
respondents as well as the petitioner, we would be repeating the
offense of not treating her fair and impartially. And I am
sympathetic with the four members of the County Council who
traveled and changed their schedules but it seems to me that we
would be piling a violation upon a violation. And so I am loathe to
not approve a postponement especially given her medical reason
and I guess so my question is am I missing something here or is
this, is this would be unfortunate for us to move ahead and not
allow her to be postponed without hearing her. Thank you.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Thank you for that, this is Sinclair Salas-Ferguson, Deputy
Corporation Counsel, for the board for today. The board has a few
options, they could take testimony from the respondents today and
continue it to next week, and allow the petitioner to state their case
and give an opening statement. Or the board could continue or the
board could hear it today. But I think, that could be a good middle
ground, letting the respondents, since they prepared everything
today if they have opening statements and present their case and
then we continue it til next month to allow the petitioner to present
her case and then go from there. I think that could be a good
middle ground.
Mr. Heintz: So if I understand you correctly, we would not act on this today but
we would make use of our Council members who are present to
hear them and the petitioner would then have access to that
11
response and she would be able to at that time deal with it. I have
no objection to that.
Mr. Wiseman: Yes, and I would like to chime in here. We have some special
circumstances here with the petitioner off island for medical
reasons and we have four council members, three present and one
by zoom, ready to testify and give their opinion and court trials
that I’m familiar with, if there was a witness that couldn’t be
present, testimony is preserved, and you can take that out of line or
out of schedule and then preserve it and then the other party would
have every opportunity they would have if they were present. So at
the, in weighing the factors here, the inconvenience and the
importance of these Council members work, to make another trip
and come over here just to give their opening statements, I find
that harsh recourse. So I am in favor of, with all the proper
protocols of due process protections for the petitioner to have that,
have them allow their testimony today, preserve it with a schedule
to be set next, I guess next month’s meeting. And the petitioner
could, we’d make sure she gets everything, transcripts and all from
today. And she could come forward and give her testimony. So we
wouldn’t be making any decision whatsoever today, except to
grant a continuance and grant the council members opening
statements today. Anyone else have any…
Ms. Nakanishi: Mr. Chair, I have one question, and as a realtor I am very anxious
to hear this, but I do wonder if she was offered the opportunity to
join us by zoom?
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: She was. She declined.
Ms. Nakanishi: Okay.
Mr. Wiseman: That actually adds strength to our position of going forward today
on a limited basis. So I would, Chair would make a motion to grant
a continuance…
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair, sorry to interrupt you but I believe board member –
Mr. Wiseman: Oh, more discussion, okay. Go ahead, okay.
Ms. Valenzuela: I think in fairness to the email that…
Mr. Wiseman: Can you, I can’t hear you.
Ms. Valenzuela: Can you hear me now? I think in fairness to her, with Zoom,
according to her, I believe she’s on a plane. If you read the email,
12
and it’s her father, and its congestive heart failure. So in fairness, I
just, it’s kind of hard to be on a plane over the ocean on Zoom.
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah good point. Any further discussion on this? Okay there being
none, the Chair would make a motion to grant the continuance for
good cause and to allow the Council members present and by
Zoom to give their opening statements and to preserve those for
our petitioner, to make sure she get em in time for the next hearing.
Do I hear a second?
Ms. Self: Second.
Mr. Wiseman: Any further discussion?...There being none, all in favor of the
motion say Aye.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Wiseman moved to grant the continuance for good cause and
to allow the Council members present and by Zoom to give their opening
statements. Ms. Self seconded the motion. All members voted aye. (10:38 a.m.)
Mr. Wiseman: So we will proceed. The petitioner’s statement and testimony will
be scheduled for the next board meeting on September 13, at 10:00
a.m. In the mean time we can proceed and hear the council
members testimony. So whoever would like to proceed first, please
go ahead…
Mr. Inaba: Chair sorry I think they’re verifying that the next meeting date is
correct.
Mr. Wiseman: Well that’s on the agenda, it says September 13th.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: The next meeting is September 13.
Mr. Inaba: Okay, I’ll proceed…
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Sorry to interrupt you, Chair one more technical thing, a question
for the respondents whether they want this in open or closed
session?
Mr. Inaba: I believe the petitioner requested an open session and we’re fine
with that.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair Wiseman?
Mr. Wiseman: Yes, sorry. Yes you may proceed, this will be in open session.
Mr. Inaba: Okay. Thank you again, Holeka Inaba. Mahalo Board of Ethics
members for being here. I’m here to share the truth on the
13
complaint before you today and some of the complaints before us
overlap all four of us and some are addressed, individually at
certain council members, so to start of I’d like to point out that Ms.
Asis has listed Article 12 from the County Charter in her complaint
and according to the rules of practice and procedure of the Board
of Ethics, the rules help to carry the administration of the Code of
Ethics in Chapter 2 Article 15 as was stated in an earlier petition
today as well as County Charter Article 14. So I’m humbly asking
that the complaint citing Article 12 of the Charter not be
considered as that complaint falls outside the scope of this body’s
purpose and this leads us to discuss the fair treatment that Ms. Asis
is alleging she didn’t receive. And in her complaint states that she
was posed with zero questions regarding her ability to serve on the
commission and she also states that she was not invited or allowed
to participate in the council meeting where her nomination failed.
And I think it’s important to point out here, prior to this issue that’s
before you today. It was common practice for chairs of the various
council committees to say you do not have to appear at the Council
hearing in two weeks if they receive unanimous support in the
committee. This doesn’t prevent however a nominee from
appearing at council. Everyone is provided with the link, we’ve
had numerous nominees come before us, receiving unanimous
approval in the committee hearing and still appearing after being
told that same statement. So, Ms. Asis made a decision not to
appear and as a result, I wasn’t able and we weren’t able to ask her
questions. So she’s created this situation by not appearing and then
submitting this petition in my opinion, shows her failure to take
ownership of her own actions or lack thereof. I’m really troubled
by this attacked on my character and the character of my
colleagues because she chose not to appear and not present us the
opportunity to ask questions. Sadly these faceless claims are
causing our County resources, us, and you folks, to be expended
unnecessarily and I really thank you folks for your service to our
community and humbly ask that you dismiss this petition when
you folks hear it, based on this mana’o I shared today. Mahalo.
Ms. David: Chair do I proceed?
Mr. Wiseman: Yes, please proceed councilwoman.
Ms. David: Thank you. I’m gonna take a little longer because I think my role
was a little bit more complicated and involved so please bear with
me while I read my statement. Aloha honorable Chair Wiseman,
Vice Chair Heintz, and Board members Nakanishi, Self and
Valenzuela. I’m respondent Maile David, Council Chairperson and
Council member representing Council District 6 which comprise
14
the District of North and South Kona, Ka‘ū, and Volcano Village. I
would like to thank you folks for this opportunity to respond to the
allegations in the petition and response I would like to say that I’m
going to do this in accordance with the manner in which the
petitioner outlined the code and charter references. So, regarding
reference to Hawai‘i County Code, Chapter 2, Article 15, the Code
of Ethics, the Fair Treatment section, that all persons shall be
treated in a courteous, fair and impartial manner, as well as the
Charter provision in Article 12, that covers boards and
commissions, that says basically not withstanding any other
provision, no person, shall by reason of occupation alone, shall be
barred from serving as a member of any board or commission. I
believe my decision was made in a fair and impartial manner, and
not based solely upon petitioner’s occupation. And I just wanted to
note that at committee, I myself was on Oahu for a family medical
emergency, so I really can appreciate Ms. Asis’s position on this.
The statements made at the 04-07-21 Council meeting, I based on
the review of the March 17th, 2021 video of that planning
committee meeting. The statements made by the petitioner and also
the public testimony comments. And while I appreciate petitioner’s
personal desire to sit on the Planning Commission, on the Leeward
Planning Commission, I stated, I believed a more diverse
representation was necessary, especially for the Leeward Planning
Commission. So my statement, the statements that was offered by
petitioner and Planning Committee level, and hearing those
statements affirmed my desire for a potential candidate that would
voluntarily express an understanding of our unique host culture
and recognize the importance of protecting and preserving Hawai‘i
Island’s unique cultural and natural resources and our land use
decision making processes. Equally important, in your
consideration of the merits of this petition, is Hawai‘i County
Charter, Article 13, Section 13-4b, which states that members shall
be appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the Council. And
also Charter Article 3, the legislative branch of the Council of
which it’s powers and functions state that the County, the
legislative powers shall be vested in the County Council. Our
primary function would be legislation and public policy and that is
to be separate and distinct from the administration of County
government. The separation of powers issue I believe is critical in
deciding this matter. The Charter provision contained in subsection
b above was accomplished when Mayor Roth nominated petitioner
for appointment to the Leeward Planning Commission. So then on
March 17th 2021, when the Planning Committee forwarded as
noted with a positive recommendation, her nomination to Council
for final consideration and confirmation. So the recommendation
was a positive one but the final decision was to be made by the full
15
council on April 7th. So at that meeting, confirmation failed with
four Aye votes and five no votes. I state that any procedural
recourse that could have been entertained within the authority and
discretion of the authority, the Council, did not occur. So therefore
once the Council took action and the votes noted for the record,
petitioner’s nomination failed and was officially concluded on
April 7th. Now we move to the April 30th, resubmittal of
petitioner’s nomination by Mayor Roth, and that resubmittal raised
procedural concerns whether resubmitting the same nomination
after Council took official action, could even be brought before the
Council. I’ve had discussions with the County Clerk, with
Corporation Counsel, and an in depth review of our process and
procedures, the Charter rules and as well as Robert’s Rules of
Orders and I believe those considerations is what guided the
decision that resubmittal of petition renomination was not proper
once official action was taken. While I don’t disagree the events
experienced by petitioner may seem unfair, however given the
specific guidelines and rules that govern the legislative body not
willing and will not take part in establishing an arbitrary and
unprecedented process that is not authorized in the County Code
nor the County Charter. That was a suggestion, I wanted to note.
And I did not, I also for your information met with Mayor Roth to
discuss these issues that we have. And I wanna be very clear, the
personal statements that a fearless Mr. Inaba says to attack our
credibility, I have never nor will I ever use anyone or any issue for
personal political gain, nor as a means of political retaliation or any
underhanded means to get what I want. In my nearly two decades
of service in the legislative branch, six years a legislative assistant
to former Councilmember Pilago, two years as a Deputy County
Clerk, and my fourth and final two year terms, sitting on this
Council, as well as 30 years legal experience and a community
advocate. People that know me know, I have consistently
advocated for open government and have been a staunch supporter
of governments obligation to follow the law and procedures to
ensure transparent and open government and fair treatment to all.
I’m sorry, but this is very difficult for me to maintain. But I will
read on, lastly petitioner’s reference to Hawai‘i County Charter,
Article 14 Code of Ethics, she notes section 14-1-b and 14-4-c.
And that’s the section that says that elected and appointed officers
and employees shall demonstrate the highest standard of ethical
conduct so that the public may have trust and confidence in the
integrity of the government. And also that all persons be treated in
the fair, courteous, impartial manner. It’s my position that the
provisions of the above sections B & C, have been satisfied. And
the Code of Ethics was not violated. The Council carried out its
duties and exercised its rightful authority under the law. Council
16
member’s respective statements were not conveyed in the
disrespectful, unfair or impartial manner. The negative votes to
confirm the nomination of petitioner were not solely based on
petitioner’s occupation. Council members should not be subject to
ethical violations for expressing and or justifying their opinions
and or position. While I surely empathize with petitioner, I
respectfully disagree that the Council’s action was in violation of
due process. But rather contend that the Council acted and
performed its duties within the scope and authority under the law.
And with respect to my comment to petitioner that I believed a
more diverse representation was needed on the Leeward Planning
Commission, I would like to direct this Board’s attention to the
Honorable Governor Ige’s recent nomination to the Intermediate
Court of Appeals. Perfectly qualified individual, however, the
State Senate rejected that nomination stating the need for more
woman, more native Hawaiians and more trial experience. That’s
diversity in action, in my opinion. I also note for the record, that
petitioner’s request, that the Board of Ethics consider removal of
myself as Council Chair is inappropriate as that authority falls
under the provisions of Article 12, removal of elected officers,
Chapter 1 Recall and Chapter 2 Impeachment, and not the Board of
Ethics. In conclusion I respectfully request the board consider
these statements contained in my presentation and recommend
dismissal of Petition 2021-09. Mahalo nui loa for your favorable
consideration of this request. And I really thank you for your
indulgence in having me express my position in this matter. And
I’m done. Thank you.
Mr. Wiseman: Councilwoman….
Ms. David: Yes Chair?
Mr. Wiseman: You may proceed…oh I was muted but I did thank you for your
presentation and your presence here today.
Ms. David: Thank you very much.
Ms. Villegas: Thank you. My name is Rebecca Villegas, and I represent District
8 which includes portions of North and South Kona, on the
Hawai‘i County Council. In light of the great testimony already
presented by my colleagues on the Council, I have decided to just
essentially say that I concur with their statements. I believe that
they have accurately and succinctly outlined the portions of our
laws that are appropriate to consider based on this complaint as
well as those that are not appropriate or relevant to consider under
these circumstances. I also trust in the nature of common sense and
17
all of us understanding what entails behaviors that would be more
aligned with these kinds of accusations and none of those
behaviors occurred during our County Council vote. I also wanna
recognize for certain members of this commission that are real
estate agents and real estate brokers, the propensity and for this to
hit home for you folks, and I get that for, a vast number of my
personal friends and professional colleagues work within that
industry, a respectable, necessary, well-educated and astute
practitioners of land law and that practice. But I do concur with the
statements of my colleagues that that was not the sole concern and
it does reside in the responsibility and the kuleana of us in our
roles to decide and to, for me, prioritize a diverse representation of
our community on the Leeward Planning Commission. And under
those circumstances the decisions were made, the person was not
confirmed, attempts were made to re-present the petitioner and that
was denied and then ethics violations were filed. So in light of the
broader picture as opposed to the more detailed legal
circumstances that apply, I ask that you look at the broader
spectrum and the time frame of what happened here. And we as
humans, it’s within our nature to not enjoy and I have empathy for
Ms. Asis and especially for her father now and I hope that things
go well with her family. This is a really stressful time for many of
us and family members health especially but I urge you today to
take into consideration the legal, factual details that have already
been presented to you. And then also take into consideration the
broader circumstances of this particular petition and make your
decision based on best information possible and to dismiss this
petition. Thank you for your time and your energy, and your
willingness to participate in this facetive government because it’s
not easy, so mahalo.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you Councilwoman. Thank you for your testimony and your
presentation, and presence here today. Do we have a council
person, council man?
Mr. Kanealii-
Kleinfelder: Aloha, I thank you for your time, I do concur with my colleagues
as far as their statements and I’ll retaining my right to provide
testimony at the next meeting when the petitioner is present.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you Councilman.
Mr. Kanealii-
Kleinfelder: Mahalo.
18
Mr. Wiseman: Do any members have any questions? I have one for any…with
respect, anyone can answer it, Councilman Inaba perhaps. With
respect to a renomination, it’s not uncommon for governments to
have a statute that prohibits renomination, is there anything like
that, that came about? In that area, Councilwoman David, you
testified on that issue.
Ms. David: Chair, I don’t believe we have any provision because if there was
one I think it would’ve been utilized in this instance.
Mr. Wiseman: I see. Okay. Thank you. Any other members have any questions?
Ms. Valenzuela: I have a question. First of all thank you guys for taking time out of
your schedule, busy schedules, traveling, that whole thing, I
appreciate that. But who is it that would make a customary
statement, if a person is voted unanimously that they don’t have to
attend the next meeting and I guess probably the reason I’m asking
that for myself even, was I was voted on this particular
commission and I know who I was told to say no need come to the
next meeting, so I just, in fairness to all of us, who makes that
statement and is it customary that they don’t come to the next
meeting?
Mr. Inaba: I’ll answer that question since I brought up that point. It is, it was
commonly said by the Chair of that committee upon a unanimous
approval in the committee not to come. So in this case, being that it
was the Planning Committee it was Chair Kierkiewicz of the
Planning Committee. Since this issue, we don’t say that anymore,
it doesn’t say that - it was never said that you don’t have to or you
can’t appear it was you don’t have to. So, like I said, it’s not
required but we have had many nominees come before the Council
even after receiving unanimous approval and being told that in the
committee.
Ms. Valenzuela: Thank you.
Ms. David: Excuse me, could I just add to that?
Mr. Wiseman: Yes.
Ms. David: Thank you Chair. Maile David again, what Mr. Inaba represented
is true, and that was one of the issues that were really discussed
intensely with Corporation Counsel, with the County Clerk, in
determining whether there was a legal method of bringing it
forward as a renomination. And that question was there’s no rule
that was established to state that when people get confirmed,
19
appointed. However, as a matter of courtesy because sometimes, in
my eight years, they would say, you know, I really cannot be here
when the council takes this up, could I, you know, is this adequate
that I appear in committee, I answered all your questions, so it was
just a human nature, accommodation is what I recall, but nothing
set in stone. It was totally up to, you know, good intentions
sometimes result in something like this where we are faced with
unprecedented issues but, what we really have to focus on is what
our role is and what are required to do under the law. So, that’s all
I have, thank you.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you, any further questions in this matter?
Mr. Heintz: Yes I have questions for, I guess several members can respond. In
the petition, Chair David, Counselor Kleinfelder, Ms. Villegas, are
all identified as referring to due to the events of last night, or what
we saw yesterday, or the events of last night…as precipitating the
change from a unanimous vote in favor to a 5-4 no, I was puzzled
by what that referred to and I would like you to speak to it but I
went through and found a meeting of the Planning Commission of
August 3rd and I thought well is that what it refers to but that was
like two nights before and the most remarkable thing in that
meeting that seemed germane was that at least an hour of that
meeting the Planning Commission received rather strong testimony
from a wide diversity of members of the Kona community
objecting to, well actually they basically wanted more diversity on
these commissions. And the major issue of course was Mr. Van
Pernis and it looks like these are definitely linked. But was that
what you were referring to or was it something else that happened
the night before? In other words that expression is what makes one
think that it was more than just the occupation of the individual,
but it was some other things that were going on in the few nights,
and I just need that filled in. I was gonna ask her…
Mr. Inaba: Sorry, Chair David, I’d just like to say, because we were grouped
in one petition, some of these concerns as the one you just stated
don’t apply. So I never mentioned anything about it so it might be
other Council Members and I won’t be responding to those
questions and I just wanna point that out cause there’s all kinds of
pieces going on here, some applying to some, some applying to all.
Ms. David: Thank you. May I? And I’m glad you brought that up, and the
reference to that was the public testimony as you state regarding
the Planning Commission and their role as the Leeward Planning
Commission and the back and forth and the split opinions, is what,
I can only speak for myself, is what I was remembering how
20
important a position on the Leeward Planning Commission would
be and that’s why I made my decision that we need some more
diversity. So I believe, I’m not sure what she’s referring to. And
certainly it’s not retaliation, you know, that accusation is
something that I really personally take offense to because
retaliation has never played any role at least in my duties, as a
council member. So I don’t do that, and that’s all I have to say.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you councilwoman. Any further questions or concerns from
the members? Councilwoman you had something to add.
Ms. Nakanishi: Yeah, talk about diversity, I’m wondering, on the Leeward
Planning Commission, I’m wondering what the job (?) is now. I
don’t know of any other realtors on there? I don’t know any other,
I think maybe there’s a planner, I’m not sure, do you know?
Ms. Villegas: Offhand, and first off if I could just finish answering, take a turn
just to answer the question prior.
Ms. Nakanishi: Yes, sorry.
Ms. Villagas: No, worries. It kinda all comes together, what my understand- part
of my job is to represent the constituents of my district and their
concerns. And I have been bombarded, with concerns by members
of district 7 about the pattern of nominations, and then some of the
issues that had to do with Mr. Van Pernis and that meeting that
happened prior. And as that all comes together and seeing the
bigger picture and listening to those voices of which, it’s my job to
represent, that is and became my great concern that day. And my
greatest responsibility I feel is to represent my constituents and
after the Leeward Planning Commission and so many testifiers
were there that day and the number of emails and phone calls and
social media posts and all the amazing ways that people have to get
in touch with us now, I felt that being the vote that most
represented my constituents in my district. And I’m sorry your
question again? Oh the current make-up –
Ms. Nakanishi: Diversity.
Ms. Villegas: The diversity of our Leeward Planning Commission. There were a
number of positions that had been vacant for a while and so there
have been a number of different people brought forward. I know
for myself one of the challenges was that there had been some
disparity and discrepancies that people brought forward that
actually didn’t live in districts and then there was people put
forward and pulled back and so there had been a pattern in those
21
months of some challenges sitting in our positions. Understanding,
and having, being able to know that what was presented before us
was completely accurate. And we all make mistakes, I live in a
glass house but it also created some challenges around confidence
in what was happening. I do know that we have a representative of,
with some experience in planning, but that works for a
construction company. We have a professional surfer and business
owner, we had a retired lawyer and land management kind of, well
some might call him an expert after all the years of participation in
land management issues on the west side, we have gentleman who
now works for a development corporation but is also highly
educated in some land use and cultural issues. I’ve got up to four,
they might be able to help me. We’ve got another person who
worked in the real estate industry…and I apologize that I’m going
five out of nine I think there are five out of seven or eight. So in
the interest of having a broader selection of industries, and
occupations, and with, and I’ll say this cause I hear it constantly,
the current climate on the west side of the big island, and the influx
of real estate speculation and buying up and people feeling a bit
lost and people feeling very vulnerable to being displaced in the
district I represent, it created a heightened sense of concern to
make sure that we have a strong, balanced and equitable
representation of the leeward side of the island on our Leeward
Planning Commission and taking into context all of those things
that are happening which do affect the way that we have to look at
and represent our communities I feel that that is just and equitable
and part of our job, however hard that may be. So, thank you.
Mr. Wiseman: Any further questions or concerns?
Ms. Self: I have a question Chair, this is Amy. So, are there other realtors on
the Planning Commission? I thought you said there was one? Is
that what you were saying?
Ms. Villegas: I believe Ms. DeFranco has worked in…Barbara DeFranco, and
once again going back to Ms. Asis’s lack of confirmation. My vote
in opposition to her confirmation was not solely based on her
occupation. It was based on a broader representation and reflection
of the desires of my community and my district and how they
wanted to be represented on the Leeward Planning Commission.
Ms. David: As far as the question regarding diversity I can only speak to what
my feelings were at the time and like I said in my testimony,
diversity to me, is very important for someone that has been
around this island, knows this island and what has transpired
especially with respect to development on the leeward coast
22
because there’s a lot of historical knowledge about what has
happened and how we can do better when we sit on planning
commissions, and so my only wish when I use, when I said, I look
forward for more diversity is someone with those qualities that
can, is first in the culture, the place, and also a community
advocate in land use planning and that’s my idea of diversity and a
woman probably, so…
Ms. Self: I have another question, so that wasn’t hashed out during the first
meeting, during the committee meeting, because usually you get
all this stuff hashed out during the committee and then when you
go to council, it’s much smoother.
Ms. David. I semi have an answer for that, I was on Oahu during committee.
Ms. Self: Oh okay so you weren’t at that meeting, okay I’m sorry.
Ms. David: That’s why it’s kind different having all four respondents here, we
have different positions depending on the what the questions are.
Thank you.
Mr. Inaba: Ms. Self…
Ms. Self: I have a question for you too…
Mr. Inaba: I can answer that question since we were there. If I recall correctly
there was no testimony in opposition of Ms. Asis’ nomination in
committee, but there was opposition on the council day, and we
received email testimony prior to the council meeting and that’s
what I referred to in my statement explaining my vote that day in
the council that we had received testimony and that got me to
change my mind and like I said it was unfortunate that Ms. Asis
was not there so we could ask questions, but that’s the process and
we received testimony and we are responsible to our constituents.
And that’s why I voted how I did based on the testimony that I
received for the council meeting.
Ms. Self: Okay, but she…I’m just reading from her petition, it says that she
received a phone call from Councilman Inaba, who re-stated that it
was nothing personal but it was due to the fact that she was realtor.
Mr. Inaba: Yes, so I can answer that, one of the major reasons but not the only
reason and that’s what I explained to her on the phone.
Ms. Self: What were the other reasons?
23
Mr. Inaba: A lack of diversity, we don’t have good representation in my
opinion at the time of a native Hawaiian perspective and I’m
really, really keen on making sure that we have those perspectives
represented. I’m honored and grateful so serve on this role as a
native Hawaiian and I would appreciate to see and know that we
have that same representation in a commission who hears land use
applications prior to us. And that’s why I voted no.
Ms. Self: Okay, thank you.
Mr. Inaba: And I do wanna point out Chair, if I may, there are timestamps
listed in that petition and if you chose to go and match the time
stamp with what she summarizes in that petition, it’s not accurate.
So it says in the petition, at least for myself, that I voted no strictly
based on her being a realtor, I never said that, so there’s actually
inaccurate statements in that petition and I would suggest that you
folks at least be able to see what was said versus what is alleged in
this petition.
Mr. Wiseman: Okay, thank you Councilman. Yes councilwoman.
Ms. Villegas: Aloha thank you for affording me just one more comment. I
appreciated your question about who would normally make the
statement about, if I remember correctly, cause when I was first
elected I had to chair the first committee on our first day, and had
my, essentially the things to follow and I believe it said you are not
required to attend the meeting at council however you may if you
chose to do so. I suppose one of my questions here and it may just
be something for you to take into consideration is that Chair
Kierkiewicz is not listed on this ethics complaint and yet it
directly, the complaint itself directly relates to the statement made,
and the confusion for the petitioner and yet we did not make that
statement in that meeting. I’d also like to point out that there were
five members of the council that voted in opposition of the
appointment on confirmation of Dana Asis and the fifth member of
the Council that voted in opposition was also not listed in this
petition of potential or claimed ethics violation. So for myself I see
some disparity and discrepancies that call into question just the
nature and validity so I just ask that you take those things in
consideration. I also just had another quick question because as I
looked up at the board here I saw the chat going through with
conversations and I see that Ms. Pomai is making comments about
the current compilation of the Leeward Planning Commission, we
have Nancy Carr-Smith making, who was also a testifier earlier
and so I wondered what the parameters are for a chat happening
and its public or what’s going on there…
24
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah, I saw that also and our IT person should somehow put a
block on that. We are only entertaining people who come before us
through Zoom at a requested time and place or in person.
Ms. Villegas: Well I have questions and that concerns me that there are
conversations going on between petitioners who’ve asked for us to
be held accountable on an ethics violation and the person who
brought forward…it disappeared.
Mr. Arecelly: Sorry I just wanted to say something, I wasn’t aware, and maybe
they were talking when I was waiting, but I can’t see the screen.
Ms. Villegas: I got you, cause I sit there too so you can’t see that.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair I can address that concern very quickly, so I was just
informed that yeah there were people chatting on the chat box, our
staff just closed and so it’s not appearing anymore…
Ms. Villegas: However it was?
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: That’s correct, I didn’t see it myself but…
Ms. Villages: But it was for the public to see?
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Let me check.
Mr. Kanealii-
Kleinfelder: Point of personal preference, if I may.
Mr. Wiseman: Go ahead.
Mr. Kanealii-
Kleinfelder: I was able to screenshot the chat that was being ran by Pomai
Bartolome from the Mayor’s Office as well as Nancy Carr-Smith,
one of our testifiers today. So if needed I have the information,
Mahalo.
Ms. Villegas: With that I don’t know what protocol or process is but I oppose,
that feels really unjust and unnecessary and unethical…
Mr. Wiseman: The board will not be considering any chat…
Ms. Villegas: Yes but the rest of the public sees it and that’s inappropriate
especially for a member of the administration to be tallying in their
opinions. I don’t feel that’s appropriate and I know from sitting up
25
there that we all have access to forms of communication with the
outside world, outside of this room. So I can, I don’t know what to
say, I contest. That’s not cool. So thank you.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you.
Ms. David: Thank you Chair.
Mr. Wiseman: Any other concerns or questions?
Ms. David: I just have a comment if I may?
Mr. Wiseman: Sure.
Ms. David: Yes and I really wanna thank, who brought up the chat room? Oh
okay, but I just want it for the record, I saw something that was
blocking the picture of Chair, but just for the record, that incident
that we were just told about the chat room, I mean I understand
social media, chat goes on all the time. But I think it’s totally
inappropriate for a member of the administration to be joining in
and commenting in that manner. And I just wanna state that for the
record and also note that a lot of these little things are responsible
for I believe why we’re here today. And so I just need to make that
very clear, that it’s very upsetting. Thank you very much.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you councilwoman. And for the, just to put everyone at
ease, the board can only consider what comes before it, through an
official means. Chats are not official and the board will not be
considering any chats if they become aware of it.
Ms. Self: Chair I’d like to say something. This is Amy Self. I want you to
know, I was merely note taking, I’m not part of any chat. Yeah, I
understand. I just wanted you to know I’m not doing anything like
that. Thank you.
Ms. Nakanishi: Remember way back when, I did have a question. And deferred to
Maile David. So I know when I came before this board I was
definitely told I did not need to show up and it was the custom so
for her to suddenly get this idea that she should show up would’ve
been outside the norm. I mean she had the opportunity and people
do, but I was definitely told, I did not need to show up, it was just a
rubber stamp. So once it, that, you got to the point where she was,
the vote was gonnna be taken and not in her favor. Is there a
vehicle to allow her to come back in at that point?
26
Ms. Inaba: Yeah as councilmembers if you are on the prevailing side of a
vote, in case there are five of us, somebody could call for a
reconsideration of the vote that was taken. We were past, or we
were going to be past the 45 window in which the…we were at the
point at the end of the window in which the council needed to take
action, we have a 45 day window from the point at which the
Mayor submits a nomination, to take action and we were at that
point. I do wanna point out that I did receive an email from Mayor
Roth I believe two days after the council hearing where nomination
failed, listing all of the three sections that are in the petition before
you. So all three sections, from the Charter and the County Code of
ethics were used as means to request a reconsideration vote from
me, and those are the three sections in the petition before you
today. And I’d be happy to submit that email to you folks prior to
the next meeting. And sorry, you know, if may, if corporation
counsel is able to speak to whether or not Article 12 of the Charter
is within the scope of…because we keep mentioning this
profession, but the profession argument being forth by Ms. Asis
relates to article 12, the rest of them are from Article 14 of the
County Charter and from the County Code of Ethics. So I’m trying
to be very clear there’s correlations here between the argument and
which section of the code or charter are being mentioned. And I
don’t want things to be considered that are not within the Code of
Ethics.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you councilman. Our legal counsel can look into this at a
later time, if it’s relevant to the issues. With respect to someone not
showing up, it’s not uncommon for many venues and official
venues and forums around the country to waive any personal
presence and to conduct the hearing in the absence of argument or
presence. I’m just adding that and I don’t know if there’s any
statute or rule. In many places, it’s done by rule. A forum can hold
a hearing without presence, and without, make a decision without
argument…Okay any other further questions or concerns?
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair, one more thing. Sinclair here, does the board, would the
board like for respondents to appear at the continued hearing as
well?
Mr. Wiseman: I think that would be their option, they can do so by Zoom…or in
person I mean it’s really at their option.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Okay.
Mr. Wiseman: Okay. Okay there being nothing further, this matter is continued to
the board’s next meeting at September 13th at 10:00 am. The
27
people present in opposition to the petition are welcome to join in
person or by Zoom.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair I’m sorry again, it’s me again, Sinclair. Just so it’s clear for
the respondents, if they’re not here and if the board has questions
of them then they would be waiving that opportunity to respond to
any questions that may be presented at the continued hearing.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you. Alright, and the board’s staff will make sure that the
petitioner get’s a transcript in time for the next hearing, in time for
review. Anything else before we move on to the next petition?
There being none, on behalf of the board we thank the
councilmembers present and through Zoom for coming here and
informing us of their positions. Thank you.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: And Chair I’d suggest maybe right now would be a good time to
take a break.
Mr. Wiseman: Okay, absent any objection we’ll stand in recess for 10 minutes.
Mr. Salas-Ferugson: Chair, maybe, lunch break maybe? 30 minute lunch break?
Mr. Wiseman: Okay we’ll resume at 12:30 today.
Mr. Salas-Ferugson: 12:15 okay?
Mr. Wiseman: 12:15 is good. Okay we’ll set a recess to 12:15.
11:42 a.m. The Board took a 30 minute recess
* * * * *
12:15 a.m. The Board returned from recess.
d. Petition No. 2021-11 Review of a petition from a County employee alleging
false allegations made by other County employees that were not properly
investigated.
Mr. Wiseman: Is the petitioner present?
Mr. Dela Cruz: Yes sir.
Mr. Wiseman: And state your name please.
Mr. Dela Cruz: Yes sir, my name is Keoni Dela Cruz. I wasn’t a County employee,
I was a contractor of the County under Animal Control Services.
28
Mr. Wiseman: Yes, okay now you’re welcome to make an opening statement and
summarize your petition, you have a few minutes.
Mr. Dela Cruz: Okay so in documentation to the committee there, the complaint is
that the manager for the organization that was contracted, her and
other employees that were let go, wrote statements in a email to the
Police Department and the Mayors office without any type of
investigation which, had the Mayor and the Police Department
notify the president of the organization for Hawai‘i Rainbow
Rangers to have me terminated and I had no written reprimand or
anything on the allegations that they had put against me. And now,
after the contract was terminated in the end of July, the people who
made the complaints are now working as Animal Control. But we
don’t know if they’re County because of a lot of the animal control
officers were let go and these animal control officers now have
County badges, the ID card badges from the Police Department
and they’re telling the animal control officers that (?) by the Corp
Counsel, we have no idea about that, cause none of us, were not
terminated cause we never received a notice of termination of our
contract from the County or anybody. We were never let know,
they never let us know if we could continue employed or what’s
going on.
Mr. Wiseman: Okay, let me ask you, the people who terminated you, who were
they?
Mr. Dela Cruz: The Hawai‘i County Police Department.
Mr. Wiseman: Oh it was the police department. So you had a contract with them?
Mr. Dela Cruz: That is correct, the contract was through the County of Hawai‘i
and the Hawai‘i County Police Department.
Mr. Wiseman: I see. Anything further? You submitted on your statements…
Mr. Dela Cruz: So yeah my charges are 2-83 Fair Treatment, 2-84 Conflicts, and
2-85 for the contracting. So the fair treatment is you know, those of
us that you know, we were let go without any kind of cause and
then this other group that made these emails to the Police
Department and the Mayor’s office without any investigation or
any cause that was investigated to find out if there’s any merit or
truth, those guys are working right now and I lost about $6,000 as
a contractor because of the allegations that these guys made that I
still haven’t been paid yet, through the County.
29
Mr. Wiseman: I see, do any members have any…
Mr. Dela Cruz: Apparently…she says she’s the director of operations, Regina der-
Serano-Derdaro…Derdaro-Serano. She’s the one who spearheaded
all this and she was with Animal Control and she had meetings
with the mayor’s office and apparently they’ve known each other
for a long time when she was with the Mayor’s or with the Animal
Control or the Humane Society. And they contract her and other
people that worked with her, and the rest of us, even if we asked,
you know like ‘oh hey can we come over with you guys’ there like
‘oh no you know we’re contracted through this other…’ and there
was no proper hiring, no job announcements, no background, no
nothing, you know, there was no fair treatment of any of us to
come on board. We were all just let go…And actually when I was,
the one time I was told they had to let me go, I was specifically
told, this was by Mary Rose-Craigsman, that the reason why they
let me go was cause the Mayor, Mayor Mitch Roth and the Police
Chief said that they had to terminate me or otherwise they were
gonna terminate the contract. And I asked for that documented in
writing and I haven’t received anything yet…And I requested, and
I did request the meeting with the Mayor online, and I was ignored
and I didn’t even get a response from the Mayor’s office to meet
with him about it.
Mr. Heintz: Mr. Chairman, I have a question. So who is that should be the
respondents on this petition? Is it the Mayor, is it the Police Chief,
is it this other person…who…I don’t…and also somewhere in this
documentation you indicated that there may be a defamation suit,
you were gonna take legal action?
Mr. Dela Cruz: Yes. Well there is a defamation because of what was stated about
me, my name, and even one of the Police Officers, a sergeant that
had mentioned my name and said oh yeah this is a person who did
this allegation but I was never written up, I was never sat down and
talked to or anything like that, it was just an email that went to the
police and I’m sure it went to the mayor’s office and the only thing
they said was I’ll get rid of him, there was no background, there
was no sit down and investigate, nothing. You know you can’t do
that to people. It’s a violation of my civil rights.
Mr. Heintz: So Mr. Chairman, or Legal Counsel, this sounds like an
appropriate issue for the courts, and if that’s the case, would the
Ethics Board be involved in this? I mean if we do something, it’s
still gonna have to go to be resolved and dealt with in the courts
right? That’s the question.
30
Ms. Self: So can I ask a question, this is Amy?
Mr. Wiseman: Yes go ahead.
Ms. Self: Okay so Mr. Dela Cruz, you were working for a company that was
providing a service for the County right?
Mr. Dela Cruz: Yes ma’am that is correct.
Ms. Self: Okay, so have you filed a grievance with your employer?
Mr. Dela Cruz: They are no longer my employer as of the termination of the
contract I no longer work for them.
Ms. Self: I know but it seems like your, it seems like your remedy would be
to go against your former employer..
Mr. Dela Cruz: Because the people that I have the issue with are no longer with
this, the Rainbow Rangers, they are working for the County now,
as contractors. They are the ones who, sent the emails and defend
my name and character.
Ms. Self: And so your former employer is a contractor and they got the
contract with the County for the Humane Society right?
Mr. Dela Cruz: No ma’am. Their contract was terminated and the other people that
were fired or resigned from the Hawai‘i Rainbow Rangers are now
contracted through the County. The ones exact, same ones who
wrote the emails to the County.
Ms. Self: And they were your employer? I’m not understanding who’s your
employer.
Mr. Dela Cruz: The one, okay. The one who sent the email to the Chief of Police,
she was a manager for the company and she had resigned and
when she resigned and the others that are with her that were fired
from Hawai‘i Rainbow Rangers, they all work for the County right
now, as I understand under contract.
Ms. Self: Okay but the company that you worked for….
Mr. Dela Cruz: Is a non-profit yes.
Ms. Self: Okay, what’s their name? What’s the name of that company.
Mr. Dela Cruz: The Hawai‘i Rainbow Rangers.
31
Ms. Self: Okay. That’s your former employer right? They fired you.
Mr. Dela Cruz: That is correct.
Ms. Self: Okay, that’s the company that you need to be filing against. We
don’t have any control over that situation.
Mr. Dela Cruz: Okay.
Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Dela Cruz, point of clarification. In the beginning you said the
police fired you.
Mr. Dela Cruz: The police (inaudible) my understanding of what I was told is the
police department, the mayors (inaudible) a meeting (inaudible)
and we brought all this up to the County…the unfair ways we were
treated and we’re, all of us were let go and they canceled the
contract. But nothing was done, nobody asked the Chief of Police
or anything about it, nobody asked the Mayor’s office about it, so
you know that’s really…
Mr. Wiseman: But you were not under employment of the County at all.
Mr. Dela Cruz: I was contracted. It was, I was a contractor.
Mr. Wiseman: You’re a contractor so…
Mr. Dela Cruz: Yes.
Mr. Wiseman: If you were fired…
Mr. Dela Cruz: It’s a difference being a contractor than it is being an employee. I
wasn’t an employee of the this company I was a contractor. So the
right thing to have done, if they cancelled the Rainbow Rangers
contract, my contact wouldn’t have been terminated, I would’ve
been automatically contracted for the next animal control contract
that they hired to come in and do services. Not just have somebody
come in and say oh we’re gonna terminate this contract for this
company but these guys who worked for this organization we’re
gonna hire them but we’re not gonna hire the others. That’s where
you go in unethics. That’s where you get into the unethical.
Mr. Wiseman: Well the board of ethics here we’re limited…
Mr. Dela Cruz: Right that’s why I’m asking you to contact the Mayor’s office and
contact the Chief of Police to find out what was done. Why, why,
32
what was the reasoning for them saying they were gonna terminate
me?
Mr. Wiseman: You mean the contract?
Mr. Dela Cruz: My contract, me, why did they want me fired? Is it because of
these allegations without any merit? You know.
Mr. Wiseman: Well you only get fired if you’re an employee but you had a
contract which would be termination right?
Mr. Dela Cruz: Right but that’s the difference between being told you’re gonna
terminate a contract, I was specifically told I was fired and I was
specifically told I was fired because of the Mayor and the Police
Chief. So…I can understand your guy’s position and I’m asking
you guys to look into it. So..
Ms. Self: But who fired you? Who fired you?
Mr. Dela Cruz: The president of the organization. Mary Rose Craigsman and the
director of operations Lev Yardborro and they specifically told me
when they let me go they said we have to let you go because the
Chief of Police and the Mayor said we had to let you go.
Ms. Self: Okay but what I’m trying to get at is, the non-profit had the
contract right, you didn’t personally have the contract, you weren’t
a contractor, you were an employee of the non-profit right?
Mr. Dela Cruz: I was not an employee I was a contractor. There’s a difference
between an employee and a contractor.
Ms. Self: I understand that but who had the contract with the County?
Mr. Dela Cruz: The contract was under the Hawai‘i Rainbow Rangers Rainbow
Friends.
Ms. Self: And what was your position with that group?
Mr. Dela Cruz: Animal Control Officer. Working for doing the job of animal
control for the County of Hawai‘i. Under the rainbow rangers.
Ms. Self: Well you wouldn’t be an employee of the County you would be an
employee of the non-profit cause they’re the ones that hired you
right?
Mr. Dela Cruz: They hired me but the County was paying for the services.
33
Ms. Self: But yeah that’s what I mean, the County was paying Rainbow,
whatever they’re called, Rangers.
Mr. Dela Cruz: So this is the thing, I don’t understand the clarification, I mean if
that’s the way that I gotta go through lawsuit then, I’m gonna have
to do that way because you know, nobody’s understanding what
I’m trying to say. Yet the people who came in, you know they’re
saying, oh they got corp counsel, they’re wearing police ID badges
which would tell me they’re employees of the County right now…
Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Dela Cruz, my understanding is that you worked for this
private company that had a contract with the County, and then you
got fired from the private contract based on what you claim were
allegations that you were dealing with.
Mr. Dela Cruz: That is correct, yes that is correct.
Mr. Wiseman: But you never heard this directly from any County official, you
heard this from…
Mr. Dela Cruz: I have the e-mails, in black in white that I forwarded to Corp
Counsel when I filed this complaint. It specifically went to the
Chief, went to the Police Department, and was never, I was never
notified of em. Because we even did our training through the
Hawai‘i County Police Department. Eight hours of training that we
did with the Police Department.
Ms. Self: Sorry, you have emails from the Police?
Mr. Dela Cruz: I have an email to the Police up the chain of command to the ranks.
Yes I do.
Ms. Self: And what’s the substance of that email?
Mr. Dela Cruz: Allegations of Sexual Harassment, carrying a firearm, threatening
to shoot people and theft…
Mr. Wiseman: And these complaints went to…
Mr. Dela Cruz: But you’re saying they went to your employer. They went to the
Police Department and the Police Department talked to the person
that’s in charge of the contract, Mary Rose, and told her if they
didn’t fire me that they were gonna pull the contract. And that’s
what happened the end of July.
34
Mr. Wiseman: I see, so your employer spread these, what you claim to be, false
allegations against you, to the police department.
Mr. Dela Cruz: No, no no…that’s a negative. No, the manager, the person who
was the manager at the time of these letters, and the people that
were fired from this organization sent the emails to the Police
Chief so the contract could be terminated and that’s exactly what
happened.
Mr. Wiseman: Okay, thank you.
Mr. Dela Cruz: Yeah it’s a touchy matter because you know it involves the
County.
Mr. Wiseman: You say it involves the County, that’s what we’re trying to get at –
Mr. Dela Cruz: Right because the County – what I’m trying to say is the Police
Department and the Mayor’s office should not be involved in
Human Resources issues with the company that’s contracted with
them. But that’s exactly what happened. They became involved,
there were all these complaints that were made by these former
employees, including myself of what they said happened to me that
I never did, I was accused of it and they made their decision to
terminate the contract for that because they said they got too many
complaints.
Mr. Heintz: Mr. Chairman, I have a question for Legal Counsel…the questions
is, I have read through these two packets of information, and it
strikes me as the nature of this complaint, and the parties who are,
including the Police Department and the Mayor’s office and
there’s allegations, the people who did the firing, the people who
resigned, that in order to deal with this, and resolve this, if the
ethics committee is gonna deal with it, this would have to be dealt
with a the level of a formal hearing, putting people under oath with
investigations of all these claims and counterclaims. From my
understanding of the rules of our body, we do not have
investigators, and resources and we have never in the three years
that I’ve been dealing with this body to conduct a formal hearing
and I just wanted some advice. I, this strikes me as something
that’s something that’s beyond our ability and resources and it’s
gonna have to end up in court with sworn testimony and so on and
it isn’t like I’m trying to get out of this, except this just seems to
me that on it’s face, this is not something that we’re equipped to
dela with and I just want your advice.
35
Mr. Yoshimoto: So board member Heintz, Deputy Corp Counsel J. Yoshimoto. To
answer your question, initially the Board needs to determine
whether it as jurisdiction right, what is the code of ethics violation.
And also preliminary just as we’re talking on the record, the
petitioner requested a closed hearing but I’ll note for the record
that the closed hearing request is for the respondents and so right
now were proceeding in an open hearing unless this is an objection
stated otherwise I think Mr. Dela Cruz is okay.
Mr. Dela Cruz: Yes that’s fine.
Mr. Yoshimoto: That’s okay? Okay. So initially yes the board needs to establish
first or Mr. Dela Cruz as to who are the respondents in this
petition, then the board can decide how to proceed along those
lines. In terms of the formal hearing process, you’re correct we
have not had a formal hearing, as I read the code, the code
basically states that if an officer employee fails to comply with the
informal advisory opinion, then the board in its discretion may
proceed to a formal hearing. So the recommendation would be that
we, if we’re gonna do anything, start with the informal hearing. So
that would be the next steps in terms of whether the board wants to
first determine whether it does have jurisdiction given the issues
are being raised and I would suggest further discussion on that not,
and then deciding you know whether it needs to proceed and if so
how.
Mr. Heintz: If we proceed at the level of an informal hearing, does all this
testimony, is it all taken under oath? Or is that only at the formal
level, with legal representation. I mean because that’s where it’s
gonna end up anyway it appears to me.
Mr. Yoshimoto: Right so, in the informal hearing process, our procedure does not
include taking the oath, meaning putting someone under oath, to
basically affirm that they’re telling the truth so no, that doesn’t
happen at the informal hearing.
Ms. Self: Could I bring something up. Speaking of our jurisdiction, if you
look at the definition section, under section 2-82, the definition of
an employee means: we have jurisdiction over employees. So the
definition of an employee is, means any person except an officer
employed by the County or any agency thereof but the terms shall
not include an independent contractor…so this, we don’t have
jurisdiction over this, this is a contractor, he’s not the contractor,
he’s working for the contractor, and the contractor fired him.
36
Mr. Dela Cruz: But you have jurisdiction over the Police Department and the
Mayor’s office, is that correct.
Ms. Self: That’s correct, but…
Mr. Dela Cruz: Because that’s what I’m trying to get to the bottom of this, is I’m
trying to find out is why did the Police Department and why did
the mayor’s office talk to the person who contracted me to have me
terminated.
Ms. Self: But this is a contract issue, this is an issue between the County and
the Contractor. So you need to be filing a complaint I guess in
court against your former employer, which would be the contractor
of the County.
Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Dela Cruz…
Mr. Dela Cruz: But then I would also include the County.
Ms. Self: Well go ahead, but….
Mr. Dela Cruz: Is that correct?
Ms. Self: But we don’t have jurisdiction here.
Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Dela Cruz, there are many businesses whether it’s government
or private who determine what basis they should continue or
terminate a contract on. What I’m gathering here that you had
other’s who allegedly gave the police and others false, damaging
information that you claim, about you…
Mr. Dela Cruz: Yes, yes.
Mr. Wiseman: And they don’t have to do an investigation, they’re dealing with a
contractor, if they wanna believe it, they believe it, good by
contractor. And you’re a contractor. If I have a gardener working
for me and someone starts telling me all sorts of things about him,
I don’t have to investigate, I can just believe it or not, if I believe
good bye gardener. So I mean that’s how I, I know I’m simplifying
this, but that’s not how I see this. I don’t really, I’m doubtful about
jurisdiction with respect to this matter. Any other members have
any questions?
Mr. Dela Cruz: Okay, I see.
37
Ms. Valenzuela: This is Kelly, sorry. I think you know, my fellow commissioners
were right, I mean, you know, while we sympathize with what’s
going on with you, this definitely would not be in our jurisdiction,
cause our jurisdiction is pretty limited in that, County employee
and or County official, when it comes to a contract, that’s another
entity. That’s like a third party. And then regards to whether it’s
the Mayor or Chief of Police, hearsay, not having something…
Mr. Dela Cruz: Well that’s the thing I don’t understand, not to cut you off but why
would the Police Department tell us we were for them.
Ms. Valenzuela: Yeah, I’m not sure of that, because from what I understand you
know, if you work for the Police Department, you’re a County
employee, you have 21 days sick leave, 21 days’ vacation…but
you’re a County employee, it’s a little different under the County.
But in a contract, which they have many, I’m sure, diverse types of
contracts, our jurisdiction does not apply. I believe to that. What I
understand. Thank you.
Mr. Wiseman: Any other members have any concerns or questions? If there is
none, if any members wanna go into executive session, discuss this
with Counsel, otherwise I’ll entertain any motions on this matter,
which could include dismissing the petition, continuing the petition
for some reason, or issuing an informal advisory opinion, which
doesn’t seem relevant.
Ms. Self: I move to dismiss the petition.
Mr. Wiseman: There’s been a motion to dismiss the petition do I hear a second?
Mr. Heintz: Second.
Mr. Wiseman: I’ll open this to discussion, any discussion on the motion?...Okay
no discussion. All in favor of dismissing the petition based on lack
of jurisdiction say Aye. Motion is passed and the petition 2021-11
is hereby dismissed.
Motion and Vote: Ms. Self moved to dismiss the petition due to lack of jurisdiction.
Mr. Heintz seconded the motion. All members voted aye. (12:45 p.m.)
Mr. Wisman: Mr. Dela Cruz thank you for your presence and testimony here.
Like another member mentioned perhaps this is a proper subject
for the court if you feel you were wrong. I know mentioned
defamation…
Mr. Dela Cruz: Okay, thank you sir.
38
Mr. Wiseman: Okay, good luck, thank you.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS (12:45 p.m.)
a. Petition 2021-05 Review draft informal advisory opinion regarding a
petition requesting guidance as to whether the actions of a Leeward
Planning Commissioner are in violations of the Code of Ethics.
Mr. Wiseman: At this time we’re gonna review, a draft advisory petition. And this
is the one from the, we have two from the Leeward Planning
Commission. One was a continuation to today, so we could obtain
transcripts and perhaps a video and the other one is to review a
draft informal advisory opinion where the chairman of that
commission requested our guidance.
Mr. Heintz: Mr. Chairman, I wanna suggest an amendment to the petition that’s
regarding the Michael Vitousek, chair of the Leeward Planning
Commission.
Mr. Wiseman: To the petition or are we talking about the draft opinion…
Mr. Heintz: The draft advisory opinion, page 4, section 11…would you like me
to just read what I…So section 11 reads, ‘At the LPC,
Commissioner Van Pernis stated that his bias didn’t prevent him
from being impartial’ that’s the section. What I would suggest is
that the word bias be crossed out, and instead it read Van Pernis
stated that his place of residence and familiarity with the area
didn’t prevent him from being impartial, but he did disclose the
fact that he lives in the Makalei subdivision…and then it should
read 2/3 of a mile from the project area that was discussed…
Mr. Wiseman: Just a moment, Mr. Heintz, as I recall, he didn’t make that
disclosure until a few months after the hearing.
Mr. Heintz: I’m leaving that in…that doesn’t change, what does change is that
we take out the word bias describe this neutrally, and also that was
part of the record that he lived 2/3 of a mile from the project area,
that was discussed in the application under review. This section 11
as written is both, well is neither objective nor is it accurate in
reflecting our minutes in which Mr. Vitousek and Mr. Van Pernis
agreed that it was roughly 2/3 of a mile.
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah I agree with that.
Mr. Heintz: Thank you, that’s the only change that I’m suggesting. Thank you,
39
Mr. Wiseman: Well, I have several including some substantial inclusions I would
like to make, in other words, coming from a point of view that the
Chairman was asking for guidance. We’ve had several cases
involving public disclosure and claimed recusals, request for
recusals, and the public disclosure is such a vital, is such a vital,
you can’t avoid having public disclosure among public officials
who are held to a higher standard than its citizens. His participation
in this hearing, without making that disclosure leaves a lot to be
desired in my opinion, and I think we need to send a real strong
message which this draft decision does partially but not enough for
me. The one I like and I requested council to provide me with a
copy of it, was the one we did with the council woman, where we
put in some very strong language near the end and I think that
needs to be reiterated, if not modified somewhat, in this.
I’ll tell you the language that I’m talking about, it’s at the very end,
I don’t have a hard copy, so I have to just find it here…
Mr. Heintz: That’s the Kierkiewicz….
Mr. Wiseman: Yes…
Mr. Heintz: Under conflict of interest on page 10, is that what you’re referring
to?
Mr. Wiseman: There’s an informal advisory opinion which is what this is
Mr. Heintz: Section 37?
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah, 37…it can be modified to fit the circumstance here. I’d like
to…
Mr. Heintz: 37 through 40?
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah if there’s no problem with the members, I’d like to not now,
but subsequently submit some proposed language. And I need to
ask, is it Sinclair or J? Sinclair you’re back right…
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: That’s right, Sinclair here.
Mr. Wiseman: Sinclair tell me under this sunshine law, which I find so restrictive
and so, it really has everyone back peddling, I think. But in any
event, am I allowed for example to submit some proposed
language to insert in a draft, this draft decision in particular. Like
in a few days next week and circulate among the members and
give it to you?
40
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: You can, I think the best thing to do would be to, if you wanna
draft this, you can draft it, send it to us and we’ll put it on the
agenda next September.
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah see that’s the problem, the agenda next month…so it’s
another month. That’s what I find so distracting and so backward
you know with moving forward and that’s why I’m saying, that’s
why I’m asking if we do a meeting and everything has to be public
so we can’t do a conference among ourselves and discuss this in
the near future.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Sorry Chair, the sunshine law requires that all board business be
conducted in the meeting, yeah so I think the easiest thing to do
would be to if you want to add things to this, you can add it and
then put it on the agenda…next month.
Mr. Wiseman: Can’t the members, if they would agree for me to submit some
modifications to you?
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: What was the question, say it again?
Mr. Heintz: My understanding is that David, you could draft a modification
and share it with one other member and then you could submit that
and modify the draft and at the next meeting that would be the
draft, and it could be dealt with. So at least you would have run it
by somebody familiar with these kinds of things, like I hope it’s
Amy or someone.
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah, okay, I’m not going to…
Mr. Heintz: I mean, do you have such a draft?
Mr. Wiseman: Right now, no I don’t
Ms. Self: Do you have your modifications right now?
Mr. Wiseman: The modifications would be what I referred to in the other informal
advisory decision. Under conflict of interest.
Mr. Heintz: Yeah paragraph 37 through 40.
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah, subject to modifications to fit this case…
Mr. Self: If you could read your modifications right now, then we could vote
to amend it according to what modifications you’ve made.
41
Mr. Wiseman: Okay, I would start with the disclosure, which is number 29…But
you see they’re talking about the counsel and I would in lieu of
that, it should be any board or commission. Or government
entity…I think the board has the responsibility to make this a very
general statement to any public official, dealing with the public to
maintain and nurture the confidence that the public needs. I mean,
anyone looking at this case, even though we can’t pinpoint the
violation or the ethics code. When Van Pernis, you know anyone
looking at this, I mean if we use reasonable person objective,
objectivity, rather than his subjective thing that benefits (?), it
doesn’t matter whether he did or not, the possibility is what’s
important. And that possibility, that’s where the appearance of an
impropriety comes in. In any one, if you want up to 9 out of 10
people in given this circumstance, look he was on this board, he
made changes to it, he never told anyone how this would affect his
property until much later. Any reasonable person is gonna have a
problem with that, I think that’s what we wanna get to, the
disclosure, the need for public disclosures. So that’s my concern.
Mr. Heintz: So David, and Legal Counsel, if you would make those
corrections, share it with, you can share it with one member of the
Board, and then have it edited and placed in the draft for our next
meeting and then we can vote at that meeting.
Mr. Wiseman: I was just trying to avoid another month. But that’s how it is. I’ll
do that, I’ll make…
Mr. Heintz: Well we have to approve it at a public meeting, so if it can’t be
made today it’ll be approved at the next meeting. And you’ll have
all the changes made.
Mr. Wiseman: Okay thank you Larry. Alright I’m gonna modify that decision and
I’ll submit it to…and who do I submit it to now.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: So Chair, another attorney in our office, so I’ll get that draft in
word format and we’ll send it to you and then you can make your
suggested edits and then you can send it to Liza.
Mr. Wiseman: And also the decision I think should be modified with the
supplemental information we received today from Nancy Carr?
That he has been removed from the commission?
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Chair, the committee voted to remove him but the full council
hasn’t voted to remove him so he still on the commission. They’ll
be voting on that on the 18th.
42
Mr. Wiseman: I see okay thank you…Okay so we’ll take up that other Petition,
that’s 2021-06.
b. Petition 2021-06 Continued review of a petition alleging that a Leeward
Planning Commissioner is in violation of sections 2-83 Fair Treatment
Mr. Wiseman: Just to refresh everyone that was the hearing we had where Mr.
Van Pernis himself was testifying, and several others and we
decided that it was necessary for us to see the transcript, in the
video, in the video transcripts. Larry did you get the video
transcripts?
Mr. Heintz: Yes, I did and I’m willing to make a motion on this.
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah so that’s where we are now. Okay, so, okay Larry, we’ll
entertain your motion.
Mr. Heintz: My motion is simply that Commissioner Van Pernis, violated
section 2-83a3 and I’m quoting from the relevant part. All persons
shall be treated in a courteous fair and impartial manner, end of
quote from the code and I guess that’s the end of my motion
Mr. Wiseman: I will second the motion.
Mr. Heintz: I just wanna say that I reviewed all the testimony and I think Mr.
Van Pernis has a gruff manner and I have also reviewed some of
the planning commission, other meetings and he persists in that
way. And that certainly raises a problem of courteousness if not the
other two. Certainly courteousness, and that’s all that’s really
relevant in my view. I think people have to have a bit of a thick
skin but there’s a problem here of courteousness. And he violates
that.
Mr. Wiseman: Thank you, I also researched and reviewed several documents and
hearings regarding the petitioner and I agree there’s a notion of
civility as it’s referred to, there’s quite a substance of articles on
this issue especially in the court system. Our civility in courts must
be had, especially among the administrator of commissioners and
board members. And I always end up with two words, I used to
use, very simple: be nice. In any event, that’s my input. Anyone
else have any comments on the motion? Discussion?
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: I just have a Chair this is Sinclair; I just have a question in
anticipation of me drafting something for the Board. The motion is
a violation of 2-83(a)(3) Courteousness. The alleged violation, as it
is still right now, occurred on what date, or dates?
43
Ms. Hickey: I can answer that, I’m the applicant, or the petitioner. It was two
dates, September 21, 2020 and April 15, 2021.
Mr. Heintz: Yeah the record of our earlier discussion and Ms. Hickey’s petition
has all that information and we also have reviewed the transcripts.
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: So the motion encompasses those two hearings. Just wanted to
clarify that thank you.
Mr. Nakanishi: I have a question though, what is this post-it note he sent, I can’t
read it. Why is it here? I mean, I have it in my packet. I can’t read
what it says. On June 4, 2021, something got postponed and…I
don’t know if its important cause I can’t read it.
Mr. Wiseman: I’m not aware of that post it but I don’t think it would have any
bearing. We’ve heard ample testimony from him and others. Okay
any further discussion? There being one, I’ll call for a vote. All
those in favor say Aye.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Heintz moved that the Board finds Commissioner Van Pernis,
violated Section 2-83a3 Fair Treatment Clause. Mr. Heintz seconded the motion.
All members voted aye, except for Ms. Self who did not vote due to absence at the
last meeting. (1:06 p.m.)
Mr. Heintz: Mr. Chairman, I just wanna make it clear that we don’t have a fine
or any penalty being attached to this motion. This Board has not
done that even though we could do that. But I just wanna make it
clear that I don’t’ think it’s necessary. I think that these issues have
been brought to everybody’s attention. We are saying that he has
violated the ethics code and the matter is being dealt with by the
planning commission and by the Council, both planning committee
and the full council. And they’re addressing this in another
manner, I don’t think any other punitive or fines or any other
actions are appropriate that’s why I did not include them as part of
my motion. Thank you.
Mr. Wiseman: We might wanna consider putting in there that we do not levy any
fines or (?). I’ll leave that to legal counsel.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Heintz moved to go into executive session. Ms. Nakanishi
seconded the motion. All members voted aye. (1:09 p.m.)
1:09 p.m. The Board left regular session.
* * * * *
44
1:24 p.m. The Board returned to regular session.
6. VOTING ON EXECUTIVE SESSION MATTERS
a. Review of the executive session minutes of June 9, 2021.
Motion and vote: Mr. Heintz moved to approve the executive session minutes of
June 9, 2021. Mr. Wiseman seconded the motion. All members voted aye,
excluding Ms. Self as she did not vote due to absence at last meeting. (1:25 p.m.)
b. Re-Review of Confidential Financial Disclosure Forms filed pursuant to
Section 2-91.1(d), Hawai‘i County Code, by County board and commission
members and designated County employees, where personal matters will be
reviewed.
c. Review of Confidential Financial Disclosure Forms filed pursuant to
Section 2-91.1(d), Hawai‘i County Code, by County board and commission
members and designated County employees, where personal matters will be
reviewed.
Motion and vote: Mr. Wiseman moved approve items 6b through 6c. Ms.
Valenzuela seconded the motion. All members voted aye. (1:26 p.m.)
d. Review of Gift Disclosure filed pursuant to Section 2-91.5(a), Hawai‘i County
Code, by County board and commission members and designated County
employees, where personal matters will be reviewed.
Mr. Wiseman: The Chair would make a note that item no. 6, Eric Dennis which
was incomplete.
Motion and vote: Mr. Heintz moved approve item 6d. Ms. Nakanishi seconded the
motion. All members voted aye. (1:27 p.m.)
7. CONTINUED DISCUSSION REGARDING AMENDMENTS TO THE RULES OF
PRACTICE AND PROCEDURE OF THE BOARD OF ETHICS AND THE
HAWAI‘I CODE.
Mr. Wiseman: For several of our new members, a little history on this. One of our
former members who was acting chair before he stepped down,
Kenneth Goodenow, an Attorney, did an amazing job on
amendments. He obtained the Code of Ethics Rules & Procedures
from the different counties, he listed em, he compared each on in
an easy viewable format. Pros and cons and suggested what we
follow are modified and adopted. He did an amazing job; I don’t
45
know how he did it but he did it. And then it went to limbo for a
while and he left. And so I need to hear from Legal Counsel.
Sinclair are you up on this or just talk to J about this, I know J is
very up on it.
Mr. Salas- Ferguson: J and I talked about it but did you have any specific questions
about it?
Mr. Wiseman: I’m more concerned with the status. It got very confusing the
whole going back and forth and so on. So that’s where I’m at. I’d
like to know the current status of the amendments and the official,
the amendments under consideration at this time.
Mr. Salas- Ferguson: So, you know generally, it’s kind of a funny thing to talk about the
status, they’re kind of…we’ll let J talk about this.
Mr. Yoshimoto: Okay, so board members the status is that we still need to have the
amendments, the proposed new rules for the board of ethics, that
needs to be vetted by the board. I would recommend that we keep
separate the proposed amendments to the code and the charter so
that they don’t get mixed together. Otherwise what I’m saying is
that that the rule amendments mainly were to make sure that
there’s a process in which the board can administer penalties given
the fact that the charter was amended during this past election to
expressly permit the board to do that and as some of you recall
back in 2008 the council also voted enact provisions within the
code to allow for penalties and fines to be assessed by the board if
certain steps were followed. And the main concern is to make sure
that there is a chapter 91, contested case type hearing format that
would have to be followed before the assessment of any fines. That
would be their due process right. Right now we do have a draft of
the rule amendments and so my suggestion is that that proposal be
presented to the board for its review and consideration and if the
Board wants to make any amendments there; we can do it as such.
Mr. Wiseman: Member Larry Heintz, submitted some amendments too. So J
you’re saying that this will be submitted to us and we can review it
at the next meeting is that right?
Mr. Yoshimoto: I don’t know about next meeting because I remember meeting with
Larry, Mr. Heintz as well talking about amendments, so one
suggestion could be is with the Board’s approval, that I continue
those discussions with Mr. Heintz if he so chooses or if not we can
just submit them to the board, have the Board consider it and then
move forward with the rule adoption process. Or any other board
member who’s interested in participating in that process as well,
46
and another option that would be still on the table to is that if two
members of the board wants to work collaboratively then we could
form that permitted interaction group that’s allowed under the
sunshine law.
Mr. Heintz: You’re referring to my proposed amendments. That have been
around since December of 2020.
Mr. Yoshimoto: No, actually no, sorry.
Mr. Heintz: But they have been, they were on the agenda, earlier this year. And
I mean they’ve been around…people have already seen it I take it.
We haven’t considered it..
Mr. Yoshimoto: So these amendments, that’s for discussion by the board. What I’m
referring to are the rules of procedures that the board needs to
enact in order to make the 2008 amendments of the council go into
effect. So what I’m suggesting is that we separate the tracks so that
we do the rules first or whatever order the board wants to go
forward and in terms of say like the amendments to the charter, the
board can make a recommendation, but of course that’s for the
voters to decide. That’s for the council to determine whether they
wanna place it on the ballot voters to consider. In terms of code
amendments again the Board has the authority to again to make
recommendations to the Council for Code Amendments so those to
me are separate and apart of each other. Those are now three
different tracks, cause you’re talking code, charter, and then rules.
So what I’m talking about is we need to get our rules done.
Ms. Self: I think that is what we need to focus on as a board because we can
not oppose fines until we have rules to implement it. So let the
county council do their legislation. Let’s focus on our rules, I’m
trying to figure out, which section of the code, allows the fines
other than for non-disclosure.
Mr. Yoshimoto: So there was an ordinance, there was a bill passed in 2008 that
expressly added provisions to the code, contingent upon the Board
of Ethics rules being amended also allow for that process.
Ms. Self: Has it been codified into the code?
Mr. Yoshimoto: It has not been placed into the code because it doesn’t go into
affect until the Board amends its rules.
Ms. Self: Oh no wonder I didn’t see it, okay.
47
Mr. Yoshimoto: I apologize Ms. Self, but yes so you, haven’t received, I don’t think
the 2008 bill. We can provide it to you. Other members may have
gotten it.
Ms. Self: Okay, that’s where the confusion is. Because without rules you
can’t implement it.
Mr. Wiseman: So J, you’ll be providing us with those rule amendments right?
Mr. Yoshimoto: Yes I can, as long as we’re ready to go. Mr. Heintz is pulling out a
packet that I think is what I was recalling about he and I meeting
on this matter in the past.
Mr. Heintz: Yeah I mean I have notes and worries…
Mr. Yoshimoto: So that was my suggestion that Mr. Heintz and I with the consent
of the Board, meet again to go over those rules or we could just do
it as a board, that’s up to the board.
Ms. Self: What’s the ordinance number so I can go look it up…
Mr. Heintz: Ok that’s fine with me that you and Heintz go over the proposed
rules…and we’ll get a copy for the next meeting to go over right.
Mr. Yoshimoto: Yes.
Mr. Heintz: 08-57.
Mr. Wiseman: Is that it? That our counsel with member Heintz will go over the
procedural rule amendments?
Mr. Heintz: Okay, can we also deal with the proposed code by Mr. Goodenow,
and also my proposed changes?
Ms. Self: Changes to what?
Mr. Heintz: To the Code of Ethics?
Mr. Wiseman: The Code of Ethics as I recall, I had several concerns and I don’t
know, as of 2019, they weren’t accommodated, for example filing
a complaint within 6 years. You may recall my opposition to that
term 6 years. That’s still in the draft I have and that would a deal
breaker for me.
Mr. Heintz: Do you have section that your, where that, problem….
48
Mr. Wiseman: No, this is my concern, what I have, I’d have to go through the file
cabinet drawer which is all filled up with Board of Ethics stuff.
Mr. Heintz: Okay so it’s section 2-86b, the 5th line…the petition or complaint
shall be filed within 6 years…you want that number different.
Mr. Wiseman: No. two years.
Mr. Heintz: So if we change six to two you would be happy.
Mr. Wiseman: With that, yeah.
Mr. Heintz: This is Goodenow, memorandum dated 15th of April 2019.
Proposed Code Amendments.
Mr. Wiseman: That’s what I’m looking at.
Mr. Heintz: So you want that six changed to a two.
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah six years is a ridiculous term to file a complaint. In law, as
we know it’s six years for a contract, and two years for personal
injury or torts and other causes of actions have different terms but
six years, I mean just picture this scenario, I’ll repeat it as I stated
before of an employee, leaving a job and over five, six years later,
he’s gonna get a complaint of something he did back when he was
working. 4, 5, 6 years ago. It’s not right. It’s not fair…it defies
equity as far as I’m concerned.
Ms. Self: Plus if you can file a claim against the County it’s a two year limit,
statute of limitations.
Mr. Heintz: Two years is fine with me. So if we change that to two. Are there
any other changes?
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah in the same section, upon receipt of the complaint…we have
to get squared away, through all the amendments there’s petition,
complaint, complaint, petition. Is it a petition or complaint.
Consistency, I mean they both have the same effect, but
consistency, we have to be consistent here. And I’m not sure I’ll
defer to legal counsel, which term they wanna use there…but
anyways, just some consistency.
Mr. Heintz: I think he has provided consistency, throughout.
Mr. Wiseman: No, I’m reading upon receipt of the “petition” is crossed out,
“complaint” is added. The board and then down below in C it says
49
any petition or complaint and throughout other sections they’re
using them interchangeably. And then in number one under ‘upon
receipt of the petition complaint, the board through it’s
chairmen…’ and this is asking someone if they want a closed
hearing. I prefer language not given that option. I prefer language
that the hearing shall be open unless for good cause, other
procedure is requested, something like that. I mean again this goes,
as far as the principle, the closed hearings are very very rarely
granted and it has to be for good cause. And then in number three
in that same section, the board may investigate…I remember we
had ample discussion on this issue and I’m not in favor of
investigation by the board. Do we have staff, we don’t even have a
budget, took me a year to get a coffee maker, to come down to the
board. Do we have any staff? Who’s gonna investigate, this is, to
me it’s beyond our parameters. Beyond our mission…and then
going in Subsection C, there’s a typo in number three. And again
petitioner/complaint, petitioner/complaint…And I don’t know if
we have anything else here…
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: No just a side comment on the petition/complaint. The charter says
complaint, I’m assuming that’s where it’s coming from. I don’t
know how to…
Mr. Wiseman: Alright, whatever, again I defer to council but I’m just saying that
we should be consistent whether it’s complaint or petition you
know…also in the question for counsel, in the rules for
disclosure…
Mr. Sala-Ferguson: What rule or code, cause we’re…
Mr. Wiseman: I need more time to refresh myself and go over these again. So
once I get a copy on this then…
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: I mean just from a…
Ms. Valenzuela: If I can speak for a second…
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Yeah, board member has a…go ahead.
Mr. Valenzuela: I’m just speaking as a non-attorney, we’re not in a court room, and
this isn’t court and so I’m saying, if the word is petition or
complaint, this is a complaint. We are a commission, we’re not in a
court room…but here I mean, this had that we’re wearing, I rather
kind of, not stay away from the legalese, but just use our County
Code, the Ethics, just stay with what I’m given, instead of moving
into the real legalese of stuff. And that’s just my opinion.
50
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah that makes sense, I’m not, I’m just concerned with this
inconsistency and again I’ll defer to Counsel on this so…
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Yeah you know I think from a practical stand point, this is Sinclair,
just you know, speaking practically. This is, you guys are kinda
looking at three different bodies of law, the Code, the Charter and
the Rules. I think it’s probably best to focus on one at a time.
Mr. Wiseman: I agree with that, I’d like to go through the rules first. Do a real
thorough job and a good job and take up the others. Okay, so J
you’ll be working with Larry and provide a copy before next
meeting, proposed rule amendments?
Mr. Yoshimoto: Yes, as long as Mr. Heintz is…
Mr. Heintz: I’ll be available.
Mr. Wiseman: Very good. Anything else?
Mr. Heintz: Are we going to deal with the changes that I’ve been proposing?
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah of course.
Mr. Heintz: Okay great.
Mr. Wiseman: If nothing else, I’ll entertain a motion to adjourn.
Mr. Heintz: I’m sorry I mean today David.
Mr. Wiseman: No I can’t do it today. I have to leave, I just had my five grandkids
come over, who I haven’t seen for a long time.
Mr. Heintz: That’s fine. I just wanna put it on record that I drafted these
proposals and submitted them to the members of the Board on
December 6, 2020 and they’ve been on the agenda and off the
agenda, over and over again. They’re very simple and very straight
forward. They have, if they were in effect, we would’ve been
making decisions quite differently than we have, and I just am
urging people that we need to deal with this sooner rather than
later. I’ll be off the board in two years, thank you.
Mr. Wiseman: I have, the problem I have, I don’t have any problem with the
amendments, which I looked over and I remember discussing those
with you two, just one or two typos in it. But my problem is I’d
like to take up the rules first and then the code, cause even under
the code or rules, I’m not sure, like the disclosure interest and
51
stuff. Like for example the duty to execute that you have, yeah
that’s fine with me I don’t have any problem with that.
Mr. Heintz: And what about the failure to discharge, which is the duty to
execute. It’s..
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah I like that, uh huh.
Mr. Heintz: And then the manner of discharge and then the section on
appearance of fairness doctrine.
Mr. Wiseman: That’s one I’d wanna have some more input in.
Mr. Heintz: Okay and then finally, the revision of the code of, the revision of
the oath of office. As it is now when an employee or elected
official of the County of Hawai‘i, they solemnly swear to defend
the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the
State of Hawai‘i. And that they all faithfully discharge their duties.
But what I wanna is the Charter of the County of Hawai‘i. And
right now when we pledge our oath, we don’t pledge to follow the
Charter of the County of Hawai‘i. And if you recall, Mr.
Kamelamela pointed out that the previous mayor didn’t have to
follow the Charter, and their duty to do so, they never took an oath
to do that. So this would correct that and then if he avoids his duty,
failing to execute.
Mr. Wiseman: Right, yeah that makes sense. Just for point of information, the
oaths that have under god, that was added by George Washington,
that was not a constitutional oath. He added that in and everyone
sort of followed that afterward. In any event, if we’re gonna
continue, Larry I’m gonna turn this over to you as Vice Chair
cause I have to leave, there’s some quality time I’m missing here.
Mr. Heintz: Okay…well maybe we can do this next meeting, but maybe we can
put it higher on the agenda so we can deal with it and get it done
with.
Mr. Wiseman: I’m with on these…
Mr. Heintz: I would prefer that the whole body…
Mr. Salas-Ferguson: Correct me if I’m wrong, but couldn’t they do a special session just
to address these type of rules and amendments and everything that
way, we don’t run out of steam and people gotta go.
Mr. Heintz: Yeah cause I know I start burning out after 5 hours…
52
Mr. Wiseman: Okay, is there a special session possible, I’m all for it. So Counsel
can look into it and get consensus to the members and we can do
that, take up these amendments.
Mr. Heintz: Thank you.
Mr. Wiseman: Okay, in the meantime I’m gonna entertain a motion to adjourn…
Mr. Heintz: So moved.
Ms. Nakanishi: I second.
8. ANNOUNCEMENTS
Mr. Wiseman announced the Board’s next meeting on Wednesday September 13, 2021 at
10:00 a.m. at the Hawai‘i County Building at 25 Aupuni Street, Room 1501 or at another
location to be determined.
9. ADJOURNMENT
Motion and vote: Ms. Valenzuela moved approve adjourn the meeting. Ms. Nakanishi
seconded the motion. All members voted aye. (1:52 p.m.)
Mr. Wiseman adjourned the meeting at 1:52 p.m.
Respectfully submitted:
Liza Osorio, Secretary