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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-10-27 EMC minutes draft ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES Wednesday, October 27, 2021 9:12 a.m. to 11:53a.m. (Online meeting via Zoom videoconferencing) Commissioners present: Georjean Adams, Chair Rick Gaffney, Vice Chair John Burns Dee Fulton Lee McIntosh Jon Olson (Audio only) Elyse Robinson County staff present: Dora Beck, Wastewater Division Chief Mike Kaha, Acting Solid Waste Division Chief Sanne Berrig, Recycling Specialist Peter Sur, Secretary Sinclair Salas-Ferguson, Deputy Corporation Counsel Wendy Baez, Legislative Assistant, Council District 8 Others present: Sandra Demoruelle, Steve Holmes, Nancy Cook Lauer, Michelle Sorenson, Jerome Warren, others. 1. CALL TO ORDER Chair Adams opened with a rollcall and called the meeting to order at 9:12a.m. 2.APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 22, 2021 Motion and second: Commissioner Fulton moved to approve the minutes, and Commissioner Fulton seconded the motion. Discussion: No discussion. 1 Vote: The minutes were approved as presented by voice vote. Ayes: 7 (Adams, Burns, Fulton, Gaffney, McIntosh, Olson, Robinson); Nays 0; Absent 2 (Cardwell, Hoopii). Motion carried. 3. STATEMENT FROM THE CHAIR Chair Adams thanked participants for bearing with us. Hopefully we can get all the links straight next time. She acknowledged two representatives from DEM because the Director could not make it. We are lucky to get Mike Kaha, Acting Solid Waste Division Chief, and Dora Beck, Wastewater Division Chief. In addition,we have Sanne Berrig with the Recycling Program, who is always available to answer our questions. She is hoping for a good meeting. We got a nice lengthy report from the Director, so hopefully we can make some progress. 4. PUBLIC STATEMENTS ON ITEMS ON THE AGENDA Sandra Demoruelle: I’m Sandra Demoruelle in N‘lehu and I am speaking to agenda item 7-a, the legislative update, regarding Resolution 239-21 of the County Council, procuring $2 billion in innovative funding, State funding, for the DEM wastewater projects. Good morning, Chairman and Commissioners. Today I hope to bring to your attention that by withholding UIPA information, DEM is operating in the dark and contractors are accountable to no one. Factually, on August 25, this year, I sent a UIPA request for the financial information for the Phala wastewater project’s new design plan (and) fiscal information, which I never received. This UIPA request is just another example of DEM not providing transparency and accountability for current unbuilt projects. So I just have to ask, why hand another $2 billion to the same contractors for more design on the same projects? What if DEM is magically handed a blank check for $2 billion? A sum that makes me shudder, I must admit. Two billion dollars tomorrow – the problem of spending it wisely with public transparency and accountability remains unchanged. My suggested solution, which is in accordance with State and Federal law of environmental review, is just do a programmatic County-wide wastewater EIS, conclude reasonable considerations of all the proposed treatment alternatives. This would be from the Cesspool Conversion Working Group on the State level as well as all these proposed alternatives that have been emerging recently. But consider all these alternatives, and also provide broad citizen participation in the County’s wastewater decision process. Then you can supplement this broad programmatic EIS with site review for individual projects. This way, DEM can stop paying contractors on endless designs that are never built, like in Phala. How could Brown and Caldwell not see there was a slope there, and understand that the people were telling them that there are lava tubes? This is not a surprise. Mahalo for your attention to my suggestion to do a broad programmatic EIS for all the County wastewater alternatives before throwing good money after bad. Thank you. Jerome Warren: I’m Jerome Warren in N‘lehu. Item 7-b, my written testimony was published in the Hilo newspaper. Today, the Director is vague about the N‘lehu sewer project. I will talk to any Commissioner about the project. My number is in the phone book. I have letters telling me that the construction will start in 2011 and 2013. My communication with the EPA started in 2003. We still talk once a month. This project is supposed to be completed in 2023, not 2027. 2 I just talked with them this morning. It’s 2023, not 2027, like your Director is telling you. So, is it 2023 or 2027? Your Director’s Report is not clear. Your funding source is not clear either. Your Director’s Report no longer says anything about water shutoff for nonpayment of sewer bills. Has this issue been settled? It was on previous reports, now it is missing. How can the sewer department shut somebody’s drinking water off? My sewer bill is for an illegal gang cesspool. Wil you shut my water off? All of your sewer problems in Ka‘ could have been solved back in the Obama administration. But wastewater scientists abandoned a simple solution in favor of an experiment. They are still getting paid to set up their experiment. The District 6 former commissioner is a scientist, yet he obfuscated my concerns at previous commission meetings. It is the ivory tower syndrome. This former commissioner is now lobbying you. Is he registered? Do you hold him to three minutes? Money will not solve the sewer problem in N‘lehu. Hawai‘i Island does not have enough tradespeople to do the construction. Big Island tradespeople need to work on failing infrastructure in Hilo and Kona, not a wastewater utopia in N‘lehu. And how will this project affect the town’s bypass route? This dotted line, the bypass easement, is on theplat maps, but not on your plan map. The community has no opportunity to learn anything about this project. Mahalo. 5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS a. Status report and motions for action on 2021 EMC Priorities – Each lead commissioner to provide brief report on assigned priorities (priorities are listed in the May 2021 meeting minutes) and make motions as applicable. Chair Adams reminded Commissioners that they were to come up with some individual priorities they were going to work on, and they had the opportunity to give updates. And if you have enough together and are ready to get it on a meeting agenda, we are more than happy to discuss it. The Chair started with her own project: Sanne Berrig and the Chairare working with a contractor to do a life cycle assessment of our different recycling streams, and we have been figuring out what data sets to use with the consultant. It is not ready for a prime time presentation just yet. Chair Adamsalso was involved in a conference call brainstorm with Council Member Heather Kimball, who is working on EPR and recycling initiatives, and we were brainstorming different items. 1 Vice Chair Gaffney requested Commissioners read the paper that he submitted to the Commission. It does provide alternative approaches to what seems to be our biggest issue. With regard to priorities, one of the things we are learning with regard to sewering Honokhau Small Boat Harbor, which should be done by the State, is just how difficult it is to do something like that. Even though there’s all this talk about trillions of dollars of federal money being available, the truth is that if you actually begin to pursue some of those dollars from the EPA, EDA, DOA, and so on, it quickly becomes extremely difficult because of the information that is 1 “Identifying wastewater management tradeoffs, Costs, nearshore water quality, and implications for marine coastal ecosystems in Kona, Hawai‘i” http://records.hawaiicounty.gov/weblink/DocView.aspx?dbid=1&id=112850 3 needed for the applications, and also because, at one of the meetings that Jerome Nickerson who is the general manager for the Boating Division, one of the meetings that he went to nationwide pursuing EDA funding, there were 17,000 people on the call. And every single one of them thinks that they are going to be able to get a piece of that money. And if you talk to the experts, they will tell you that less than 10 percent of the people that apply for these moneys actually get them, and are actually considered qualified. One of the issues that we ran up against is that if you pursue federal funding, then you have to do a federal EIS, which is a much more complicated EIS than one that you can do at just the State or County level. That changes everything. So the bottom line is that although it sounds like there is a lot of money out there, and it sounds like there are a lot of people willing to solve our problems,the reality is,when you pursue it you essentially need somebody working on it full time. Mr. Nickerson is going in to his office on Sundays on his own time, and pursuing theseapplications.There is no one at DEM who is currently pursuing Federal or State grants, because they do not have a grant writer on staff. The County as a whole has a very limited number of people with a background or experience in grant writing. So without that, it makes a lot of what we are talking about exceedingly difficult. We need to consider all of the different ways that funding could possibly be available to us. And one of those is public-private partnerships. There is some reluctanceon the County’s part. The County presumes that the Konno decision prevents them from doing public-private partnerships. But that is apparently not correct because the City and County of Honolulu is regularly doing public-private partnerships for wastewater management. It is an option for us, and we need to get past this roadblock at the County level that says we can’t because there are some obvious places, Keauhou and at the tail end of Ali‘i Drive, and also Puak, are obvious places where a public-private partnership could solve an immediate problem. Chair Adams said we might circle back on this topic when we get back to the wastewater discussion with DEM. b. Status report on action items from previous meeting. i. Letter to Mayor, Council, and DEM regarding recommendations for water 2 reuse and recycling at Kealakehe Wastewater Treatment Plant. Chair Adams said that EMC did send on October 20, 2021, the letter about the Kealakehe Wastewater Treatment Plant. And we will see what kind of response we get from the Mayor and the Council. 3 ii. Review solid waste funding options paper. Chair Adams presented her paper. We have sent out three different letters dealing with wastewater funding, and maybe we need even more, but the same funding options may be appropriate now for solid waste. This is just kind of trying to wrap up different ideas on where we think the County can focus on solid waste funding. She presented at the July EMC meeting a breakdown of where the money is coming from right now, which is mostly the General Fund 2 Letter to Mayor, et al. regarding recommendations for Kealakehe WWTP: http://records.hawaiicounty.gov/weblink/DocView.aspx?dbid=1&id=112850 3 Solid waste funding options: http://records.hawaiicounty.gov/weblink/DocView.aspx?dbid=1&id=112856 4 through Real Property Tax revenue. We have some revenue coming in on tipping fees, but that’s only on commercial entities. Recycling gets a piddle. Even though there is a CIP list of more than $1 billion of projects that need to be done, that money doesn’t happen automatically. It needs to be funded and is subject to the political winds of the time. So where we are leaning was to think not only of wastewater as an enterprise fund, but also solid waste management, which is basically treating this as a business with fees for service to manage our solid waste, with the preferable goal of keeping it out of the landfill, and certainly out of our land and water if we can. We all recall what an enterprise fund is. What she wrote in her paper are the different ways that an enterprise fund would look at how do we get more money. She added that the amount of money that is necessary for solid waste is peanuts next to what we need to manage wastewater, but nevertheless it is important to the community and to our ‘ina. Tipping fees. Wehave been upping the amountfor tippingfees at the landfill 2 percent a year, 4 and another range of increases is going to have to come and be approvedby Counciland hopefully we will hear some discussion about the residential hauler credit that was previously removed–i.e., if you were acommercial haulerand you were taking residential waste, you didn’t have to pay a tipping fee. That got reversed, squawks were made, and now DEM is looking at reinstating that credit. But it’s a chunk of change that could be brought to bear to costs. Another thing is looking at increased fees for special waste, not the humdrum stuff but the things that need special handling and special concentration and control,or to penalize people who are dumpinginto the landfill things that could be recycled. A point that Ramzi made at the Council meetings he has been at recently is that the tipping fees were not built to increase with inflation. And so we could make sure that that gets worked in. Pay As You Throw was brought up in the Solid Waste Advisory Committee and was not selected as a high prioritybut was in there as a recommendation to look at. And if people are interested, she could provide more information to that. Basically, it’s incenting people to reduce the amount of waste they are putting in the landfill, and increasing their recyclables, because there is a real price differential. It’s going to cost you more if you are just throwing it away as trash, as opposed to recycling it. Better yet, you don’t make it in the first place. It has some initial challenges to make sure there is good communication and enforcement about putting the right things in the right bags or containers. It would involve ideally having some curbside pickup available. So, there are things to do to make sure that we can incent people to do the right thing, reducing waste, through a PAYT program. It has been successful in other areas, including other rural areas. We are paying right now through Real Property Tax. It is a percent, it’s hidden, nobody really thinks about itor recognizes that you have to pay for solid waste. One recommendation from ISWMPwas to drawitout as a line item what we are payingfor waste, and unfortunately increase that line item. 4 Ordinance No. 2020-86 removed the Council’s role in raising the tipping fees and placed the fee schedule in the administrative rules. This ordinance added HCC Section 20-04-04: “Fees for management of materials entering into a SWD facility and any State solid waste surcharge shall be established by the department pursuant to department rules.” 5 Establishing a County TAT, the tourist tax that now we are authorized for up to 3 percent. The Council just discussed this. They are still discussing it, and it’s something perhaps we could as a Commission support, but certainly it is something for consideration. She personally submitted some comments about using a portion of the TAT to cover solid waste issues. Extended Producer Responsibility: We spent a fair amount oftime talking about that. Council Member HeatherKimball is very interested and will be taking that to the Hawai‘i State Association of Counties. It’s going to be difficult to pull off as a County effort, it’s a state effort. And there are lots of categories we could look at. Waste reduction programs:We talked about increasing recyclingopportunities, get some more education out there so people think first to not generate waste in the first place, expanding our capabilities to reusematerials. B2B, businessto business, exchanges of material that could be supported by the County.There could be policies that encourage or require recycling collection services by business and residential owner associations,and bans. Chair Adams is not a fan of bans,but they are a tool. Organics is our biggest landfill proportion, followed by paper and construction and demolition waste. Plastics are about 10 percent. The others are twice as much, if not four times as much. But bans are an option for us to look at. Point of sale service fee on products: The more complex it is, the more costly it is to administer. Regarding thepoint of sale service fee on products, Chair Adams heard the Director say if we could charge 10 to 15 cents per pound for everything that comeson the island, we could cover our solid waste expenses. She didn’t know where that number came from and whether it’s realistic, but administering a program to collect this fee, if it were possible, would take some work. Grants: Grants are wonderful, but there is an art to getting a grant, and they aren’t a good, sustainable source of money. And you have to pay people to get those grants. Support Public-Private Partnerships and figure out how can we get that to happen. Those who might have listened to the most recent Council meeting when Heather Kimball raised the issue of potentially looking at the Konno decision by HSAC, she got some blowback on it. It is an issue on this County and there continues to be work on how can we make it happenso that we can get the things done that we need to get done, and not be held back by unreasonable restrictions when it is so hard to find qualified people to take all the openings that we have got. We have current contracts in place. There are efforts under way with Waste Management Hawai‘i to re-negotiate the contract that we have with them, but there are others out there that need some work, and act as barriers for DEM to be able to do their thing. Chair Adams was frustrated to find out that schools cannot work with PTA organizations to help do recycling. They have to use the County contractor because they are a public entity, and that just seems really dumb to her. We need to figure out how to do that better. We need to make sure that practices are safe, but we need every option available to us. As we did with wastewater, we can look at how we can leverage those Energy Savings Performance Contracts, cutting the time it takes to find a contractor, and wrap it up because everything involves energy. If you have an 6 energy savings, there may be some efficiencies to leveraging funding or reducing costs through that mechanism, and looking at innovative technologies. At the SWAC, the Department was reluctant to look at innovative technologies. Let somebody else prove it, and we will adopt it. But she was hopeful that we would still keep an open eye out on new ways and new technologies, and partnering with companies that would try some new technologies that would work here on this island. Unfortunately, a lot of this partnership work needs somebody at DEM who can be the oversight person and work with these contractors and private organizations. And we don’t have enough people in DEM to do that kind of work with the expertise needed to oversee that stuff. Regarding the Recycling Market Development Centers, that is about looking at ways that the County could connect up different partners, knowing what waste we’ve got and who needs what kinds of materials, andbeing more active in terms of developing market. Chair Adams then opened the floor for comments, additions, and questions. Vice Chair Gaffney complimented the Chair on her presentation. She said it’s implied here but not stated directly that there are profit opportunities from waste materials. With wastewater, if we clean it up to the right standards, people will buy it, and there are certainly compost and mulch opportunities. There are companies already in existence on this island that use the mulch from our landfills and turn it into something that their clients pay for. Commissioner Olson said his involvement with the community on a broader basis starts and ends with our solid waste and wastewater issues in Puna. Puna was filled with illegal dumping sites and mountains of abandoned vehicles. We found ways to collect thousands of vehicles and get them hauled way for free. It was a question of timing. The price of scrap metal was up, and there were some people on O‘ahu in the scrap business. They came up and got it. It is a commodity. It always comes back to the money. There are ways to monetize all of this, but in his opinion that’s where we need to start, understanding it is strictly a problem of money, and who is going to pay, and how much, and take that approach. The technology will change over time and the system will certainly evolve. But we have to start with show me the money, see where we can get value from the waste stream as opposed to just something to get out of sight. And we have had our successes, we have had our failures down here. It is a whole lot better than it was. So he has floated a couple ideas about point of purchase, disposal fees, those kinds of things. We have to come up with the mechanism, because nobody is going to take it seriously until we address who is going to pay for it. That’s the point on the spear. Chair Adams said the idea behind repurposing our current waste, just as we said in our recent letter regarding the Kealakehe Wastewater Treatment Plant, is that we need to start thinking about wastewater as a resource. It isn’t waste, it’s resource management. We’ve got to set up systems that can do resource management. Andthat might be this idea of finding markets. I know somebody who knows somebody who can connect and use that. That’s a lot of what is happening on the mainland for these exchanges between businesses. A lot of it is volume and that is our trial here on this island. In order to have a sustainable business, you need to have a 7 sustainable feedstock and buyers, and keeping that system in motion isa challenge. And who’s going to do it? Because somebody has got to make enough money to spend time doing it. Commissioner Burns said it’s a complex issue. Making an effective change in the short term is going to involve working closely with the County in the existing plans and ideas that they are trying to implement now. That is difficult now because there has been an overturn in staff and folks have moved around, so this reset button has been hit again. So many of the ideas we discuss and the public comments on overlaps. It may just be an issue of public relations in the sense of the County doesn’t have the time or resources to make it clear and accessible what they are working on and trying to do. And that is a conduit that we could be here, making things more aware in the public sector and promoting what seems reasonable and useful to move forward. The point of sale fees would be among the most likely to be enacted in the near future versus ideas that are going to have to start fresh and go through the whole process to become policy. Chair Adams asked if that also meant the non-HI-5 glass and extending EPR items to include consumer-size oil containers. Commissioner Burns agreed, and also added charging greenwaste for certain folks or limiting times and locations for greenwaste operations. It’s unfortunate that with staff shifting dramatically that we’re spearheading efforts. It’s going to require going back to those folks and trying to identify their priorities, and working with them to publicize those and get the support in order to make it happen. Chair Adams invited Mike Kaha, Acting Solid Waste Division Chief, to respond. Acting Chief Kaha sent the Director’s and Deputy’s regrets for being unable to attend. The Department would welcome any kind of help that we could get, he said. It’s a difficult time for our budget, and it’s never an easy time to talk about these issues and how do you pay for it all. That isthe unfortunate part of it. Having someone to plan out all of these discussions about what to do with recycling and so on takes money,and it’s quite difficult to continue doing. We really value the scrap metal program, it’s something that everybody wants, but there is a number to that, and it’s more than half a million dollars that you have to put money toward. We continue to try to bring that program out to everybody. Metal is not something that is prohibited from our landfills. Is this something that we want to continue right now, or do we want to put it toward other things? These are the hard decisions that need to be made. Acting Chief Kaha said the Director is trying to help the Solid Waste Division by getting more people to fill the holes in the organization to push a lot of the plans through. We have one engineer licensed and we have two engineers that are by trade, and what we need is more of that at our Division. We need some clerks to push our plans through. Otherwise, it ends up being where we come to these meetings and it’s just a lot of discussion, and we aren’t pushing plans through. He is asking for help to get that to the Division. If this Commission can help with that, he would appreciate it. And with the things we are looking at to fix our sites and get things done in Wai‘hinu, we send one guy out do everything. It’s so difficult, but having that 8 administrative help would be a big help for us. So anything the Commission can do is appreciated. Chair Adams said she and the Council are supportive of the positions that are open, but the problem is the Department does not have anybody who wants to take the positions. She was impressed by the Director’s pitch to the Council about personnel being a huge issue for him. A lot of that was jaw-dropping seeing how littlethe pay is. And it’s a State issue regarding civil service. If you get good people you have to pay for them. It’s expensive living here. But she considers it a reasonable request. Is there something additional that we should write up to send to the Department and the Council? Commissioner Robinson liked Chair Adams’ writeup. We should look more into the potential for cost recovery. What is the potential revenue to use the material for other buyers? What could the county recover from that? We talk a lot about costs, and in the report there is a lot of information about what the outflow of money is, but what could the potential inflows be? Chair Adams asked about the half-million dollars cost for scrap metal. Are we getting paid for it? Staff did not have an answer for that. Commissioner Olson said the scrap metal prices depend on supply and demand. We are not handling this like it’s a valuable commodity. That’s nuts, he said. That was the concept of recycling market development centers, Chair Adams said. Commissioner Olson said he made the abandoned vehicles in Puna disappear and it did not cost the County or the State a dime. The price of scrap metal was up, and the buyer picked them up in the 1990s. Chair Adams said we have to get our mindset back to looking at things as resources, and how do we move resources and get value and recognize the value in them, and quit burying them? Maybe what we do is supporting give DEM money to hire a consultant to work through how best to make our solid waste effort one that’s more resource management-based. Chair Adams again asked what are the next steps – do we write a letter, or do we leave it as collecting comments to share with the Department informally? Commissioner Robinson said that the Commission is is not positioned yet to make solid recommendations to the Department, and she would like the conversation to continue. Commissioner Olson supported having a discussion with the County Council, and we all need to be involved in it. 9 Commissioner Burns said these are all good points. To go from discussions to promoting positive change, we could write a letter that is extremely compelling, but if we touch on all the issues, we would be unlikely to hit all of them at once. If we move to having more discussions, that would be good but we could move to picking one issue we want to address, just as a start. It is easier to target one issue to the Council and push it forward. Vice Chair Gaffney spoke in support of approaching the Council and the Mayor with an individual suggestion. A lot of times give them a whole range of opportunities, and often that is lost in a complex Council process. There is an opportunity for a waste management approach on this island, and that is the waste that is being produced by the two major aquaculture companies on this island. They are both in a major growth phase, they are producing a high nutrient waste, and they are looking for something to do with that waste. We also have a ton of greenwaste and mixing the high nutrient waste with the fish wastewould produce a high quality product. Both companies arelooking forward toassisting the County with that opportunity. Maybe we should produce a letter to the County to say that these companies, Blue Ocean Mariculture and Kohala Mountain Fish Company, have this high nutrient waste. We already have this greenwaste. We want to see a facility developed to combine the two into a production of a high nutrient compost for farmers that is available for sale. One of the things the Council is going to like about that is possibly that would be a revenue generator for the Solid Waste Division. Chair Adams said that based on the last month’s Commission meeting with recyclers there was the possibility of setting up a special investigative group or an ad hoc committee to gather information. There’s the whole issue of handling compost on this island, which is a mess, and it suffers from some contractual obligations that we have with HER. And so maybe we should talk about getting a group together to pull together the information, and present the findings to us, and then decide what we are going to write up and send to our advisees. Vice Chair Gaffney asked who could serve on this permitted interaction group, to which Deputy Counsel Salas-Ferguson said only members of the Commission could serve. Commissioners engaged into further discussion about how to involve Council members in the talks. The Deputy Corporation Counsel said he would have to look into whether an open discussion with the Council were to be possible. He has never seen that happen before. Commissioner McIntosh cited the success of the request for life cycle assessment funding. If we work with where DEM wants to focus and ask the Council to support those endeavors, we might have more success in what we are trying to push through. Chair Adams clarified that the Council did not give specific money for the LCA, but rather the Department found a source of money and applied it. Discussion continued further. Vice Chair Gaffney said two commissioners could discuss board business with a Council staff person. Would that be legitimate? The Deputy Corporation 10 Counsel said gathering information or listening is fine, but they cannot make a commitment to vote. Chair Adams asked the Vice Chair to do a write up of his proposal for the next meeting. Chair Adams said she was willing to contact Council Member Richards’ office and find out what are the ways that we can further explore Vice Chair Gaffney’s proposal. Deputy Corporation Counsel Salas-Ferguson verified that HRS Chapter 92 allows two members of a board can discuss among themselves andcan have someone who is not a board member present, and they can talk about things as long as there is not a commitment to vote. A joint meeting could be possible, he said, but that is something that could be looked into. Chair Adams had discussed an ad hoc committee, but also the board could assign two or more of its members, but less than a quorum, to present, negotiate, or discuss any position that the board has adopted. The Commission could create an ad hoc committee to go to the Council and advise them if it were on the agenda. There are quite a few options, depending on what they want to do and how they want to do it. Chair Adams said she would call Council Member Richards and see how comfortable his Committee would be with meeting or reaching out to the Committee. c. The Commission may establish a permitted interaction group, pursuant to the procedures established in Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §92-2.5(b)(1), to investigate and make recommendations related to its responsibility to advise DEM and the Council on waste reduction. The scope of this group’s investigation may include economic and legislative barriers to collection and processing by private recyclers for wastes currently recycled by the County, and other items such as electronic waste, alkaline batteries, photovoltaic panels, plastics, and other recyclables. Chair Adams relinquished the role of presiding officer to Vice Chair Gaffney tomake a motion. Motion, second and vote: Commissioner Adams made a motion, to which Commissioner Olson seconded, to establish a permitted interaction group, to investigate economic and legislative barriers to the collection and processing by private recyclers for waste currently recycled by the County, and other items such as electronic waste, alkaline batteries, photovoltaic panels, plastics, and other recyclables that we can investigate and understand if there is action to be taken. There was no further discussion. Ayes: 7(Adams, Burns, Fulton, Gaffney, McIntosh, Olson, Robinson); Nays 0; Absent 2 (Cardwell, Hoopii). Motion carried. Acting Chair Gaffney then returned the Chair back to Chair Adams. Chair Adams said she would like Commissioners Cardwell, Hoopii, and herself to comprise the permitted interaction group. This is an investigation, she said. Go talk to whomever you need to talk to. The basic idea would be, find out what is in the way that we can have influence over by going to the Council and identify what are the barriers, either DEM rules or Council legislation. Or maybe it’s going to be at the State level, that really hinders the ability of these private 11 organizations to do recycling that everybody wants to do. And the process as she understands it is you talk to whomever you want to talk to, come up with a set of findings and possible recommendations, then bring it back to the next Commission meeting, where we would hear what you have found out, and then we would have a third meeting where would potentially take action by making a motion and proposing to the Council that certain changes are necessary, either at the County or the State level. Or there might be some administrative rule changes that the Department could pull off on its own. Motion, second, and vote:Commissioner Fulton moved, to which Vice Chair Gaffney seconded, to name Melissa Cardwell, Carrie Hoopii, and Georjean Adams to the permitted interaction group. There was no discussion. Ayes: 7(Adams, Burns, Fulton, Gaffney,McIntosh, Olson, Robinson); Nays 0; Absent 2(Cardwell, Hoopii).Motion carried. 6.NEW BUSINESS i.2022 EMC meeting schedule Chair Adams said the Commission’s schedule conflicts with Council meetings for February and March 2022. Sometimes we do have Council memberslistening in and participating in our meetings. Commissioners said they were generally able to attend onthe fourth Thursday of the month. The current schedule of the fourth Wednesday is difficult for Commissioner Burns. Motion, second, and vote: Commissioner Olson made a motion, to which Vice Chair Gaffney seconded, to move the regularly scheduled Commission meetings in 2022 to the fourth Thursday of the month, except for November (third Thursday) and December (no meeting). Ayes: 7 (Adams, Burns, Fulton, Gaffney, McIntosh, Olson, Robinson); Nays 0; Absent 2 (Cardwell, Hoopii). Motion carried. 5 ii. Comment on potential amendments to DEM’s Rules of Practice and Procedure 6 i. Rule No. 9-17, relating to trailers prohibited at transfer stations. Chair Adams said the Commission has been offered the opportunity to talk about proposed rules for trailers at transfer stations. It would be Rule No. 9-17 of the Rules of Practice and Procedure for the Department. This is going to be presented to the Council in November. Has anybody had a chance to look at the language, and wants changes? Chair Adams commented that the proposal to allow trailers requires written concurrence from the Mayor and the Corporation Counsel, and that was “overkill,” but if the Department wants to do that, that is fine. Her other comment about was about public notification, and that it should also mention site signage. Acting Chief Kaha said the five transfer stations that could allow for trailers (with modifications) are Waimea,Kealekehe, Ke‘ei, Wai‘hinu, and Phoa. Hilo was also mentioned in a prior 5 DEM rules: https://records.hawaiicounty.gov/weblink/DocView.aspx?dbid=1&id=109446&cr=1 6 Draft Rule 9-17: http://records.hawaiicounty.gov/weblink/DocView.aspx?dbid=1&id=112865 12 discussion with the Council, butthere would need to be additional issues to be addressed to make that happen. Chair Adams didn’t know that we need at this time a motion for a recommendation on the rule because it has not yet been set, but it was more about getting a sense from the EMC that this approach is a reasonable one, and that at least there will be designated transfer stations where people can take their trailers, albeit with limited locations and days. Commissioner McIntosh, who uses a trailer, spoke about the proposed language prohibiting reversal of trailers. He’s not sure what the Wai‘hinu Transfer Station will end up looking like after it is rebuilt. Not being able to back in means you have to walk 30 feet to get to the chute from your trailer. And whether you go forward or back in, you are going to have to back in, unless you drive in sideways. Another concern is the maximum dimension of the trailer at 6 by 9 feet. Most trailers on the island are 4 by 8 feet or 5 by 10. This rule would be cutting out 5 by 10 foot trailers. He is surprised by the 6 by 9 foot dimensions because that’s usually for wider vehicles, and that would be more difficult to maneuver. Why not make it 6 by 12 because that is the largest residential trailer that is sold on the island by Home Depot, but it is a special order so you don’t see too many of those. Lastly, the trailers are supposed to have registration stickers on them, just like vehicles. It should be unnecessary for employees to ask to see documentation. If the sticker is not on the trailer, the driver is not in compliance and that would be more of an issue for the police department. The Director had mentioned he did not want employees enforcing the laws by themselves, and this would be just asking for lots of trouble in that regard. Commissioner Olson was on the Solid Waste Advisory Commission when they started the rebuilding of the transfer stations, he said. And they took us on a tour of how they were built on O‘ahu and on Maui. There, they were built so that you can pull through instead of backing up. The problem with the new transfer stations is that they are not pull-through. It is creating a huge hassle. People who do not have trucks are not going to load greenwaste into their automobiles. And this is going to lead to a lot of illegal dumping. Vice Chair Gaffney said the Waimea Transfer Station is beautifully set up for trailers. You pull up alongside the dump puka and offload off the side of the trailers. There is no backing up whatsoever. And if in the best-case scenario we could have all future transfer stations designed that way, it would be a winner because then people who really don’t have any experience backing trailers up wouldn’t be forced into that situation. Kealakehe is one example of a transfer station that is not drive-through. You have to back up in a long line of other vehicles that are in three parallel rows. Trailers are problematic and there is a potential for accidents. Acting Director Kaha commented on the discussion about allowing trailers at certain transfer stations that would require going through the Mayor and Corporation Counsel for input. The 13 suggestion is that we would allow the trailers to come in one day a week. Do we then say that it is nowOK, absent any of the design changes, or do we say that no one else can come in except for trailers? And how does that affect everybody else who had wanted to come in any other day that they had wanted to pick? That is where the discussion is happening right now, about how best to approach that. He doesn’t know if he has gotten any response. He is willing to make it happen, but it would be a big problem for him to direct the folks out in the field what the proper thing is. And he has reservations about putting staff out there to say no to half the residents, today is not the day you can come in, today is a day for trailers. Or to be able to answer to Corporation Counsel that we are talking about designing a better transfer station before transfer station before we went ahead and did this. That’s the discussion happening right ow from the Department as far as the Division is concerned. He apologizes, the Commission is looking for answers, but these are the questions that he needs to be answered before he can implement anything in the field. Chair Adams said we will have another opportunity when the final language gets proposed. This is not the final comment. Commissioner Robinson said she didn’t think it’s enough to notify the public only through electronic media and the website. Most people going to the transfer stations won’t be checking their phones to see if they can or cannot go. The public needs to be notified well ahead of the changes. With the last time, closing down the transfer stations was very frustrating for the public. There has to be another way such as easy to understand signage on the site well ahead of time. Commissioner Olson again spoke in support of the pull-through design of transfer stations on other islands. Commissioner Fulton said it seems that three-fourths of the world gets its news these days from social media rather than from legitimate news outlets. Does the Department have a social media presence, or does it have an app such as Nextdoor? This is how the news gets out these days. Acting Chief Kaha said the Division does have an ability to put out messages. Not everyone has signed up for it. At every one of our stations is a QR code and directions how to sign up for it. It’s similar to what the Police Department and the Civil Defense Agency use. You can sign up and find out about fires in your area, dust storms, and traffic accidents. Similarly, you can do the same for solid waste. He would caution that because the DEM notifications are County- wide, be careful what you are signing up for because you might receive updates that don’t pertain to you. Chair Adams agreed with Commissioner Fulton about the social media apps. It takes staff to keep social media up and live. You try to find what means of mass communication work, so in general that is our comment. Try to get the word out as big and broad as you can because 14 somebody is going to be irritated when he or she drives up to the door of the transfer station and cannot get in. Commissioner Robinson suggested putting out a press release on the changes. And as for Commissioner McIntosh’s comment about having DEM staff monitor vehicle registrations, with item (b) on the rules, it should state that all trailers have to follow Vehicle Registration and Licensing rules, or something like that, so they are not in the position to have to do another check. That should be enforced by another department. ii. Reinstatement of residential tipping fee credits (formerly HCC Section 20-46(c)) that were repealed by the current administrative rules and Section 10 of Ordinance 7 No. 2020-86. Chair Adams said by way of background that the credit for residential waste to be hauled to the landfill had been eliminated and now the idea is to put the credit back so it will exist again. Does the Commission have any comments to pass on about that? She said it was an item of something to consider, not necessarily a recommendation, in the Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan as a source of revenue. Basically, we are giving it away again, and it’s not free. It costs moneyto put something in the landfill. But we wanted to encourage people at least to put it in the landfill and not in the backyard. And offering the credit again was perhaps a political necessity at this time, but it is still another way we are kicking ourselves by not collecting revenue around that service. Commissioner Olson said he doesn’t disagree with the idea. Somebody should be collecting revenue for the disposal. He is just not sure that the way we are going about it is either going to be popular or is not going to encourage a whole lot more illegal dumping. Collecting payment at the point of purchase would be better than at the disposal end. Commissioner McIntosh said that as long as itis free for residents, the credit for the haulers is only fair. They are not creating additional refuse; all the haulers are doing is taking it and dumping it for the residents who may or may not be able to do it on their own. So they are providing a service for seniors that is not available otherwise. Chair Adams said we are all struggling with the fact that there needs to be revenue, there needs to be recognition that these services are not free; somebody is paying for it. So how do we pay for it equitably? iii. Other rules that EMC may recommend for revision. There was no other discussion on other rules. Chair Adams said this might be a topic the permitted interaction group might be able to explore. iii. Discussion on the October 19, 2021, presentation to the County Council regarding the 8 Wastewater Division. 7 Conceptual discussion only; no language has been drafted 15 Chair Adams said she hoped commissioners took the time to listen to the presentation that Director Mansour and Deputy Wastewater Chief Eric Takamura gave to the RAWEEM Committee. It basically lays out the woeful status of why our wastewateris in need of so much money. It’s part of the challenge that we as a Commission face, about how we can come up with solutions. Chair Adams encouraged the Commission to look through presentation slides, and also if you can manage it, listen to where the Council members are coming from and what the key issues are. They are funding, personnel issues, and compliance with the array of EPA actions against us that are driving the need for DEM resources. Commissioner Fulton said she had not personally visited the Hilo Wastewater Treatment Plant but what was presented in that report was pretty stunning. Looking at the slides, it says that 86 percent of assets at the Hilo Wastewater Treatment Plant are condition 5, failed, or 4, rehab required. There are some stunning photos attached. It’s an effective and dramatic presentation that was made about the state of decay of the Hilo Wastewater Treatment Plant. That does raise questions about how effectively that plant is functioning, and we are getting into regulatory areas here. So the question is, is the Hilo WWTP consistently able to meet secondary standards? Chief Beck said yes, the plant is currently meeting permit requirements. There is a lot of deterioration and lack of redundancy, and we have had projects on the CIP list for years and years to try and address these issues. But as each year goes by there is a lack of funds or a lack of staffing. We need both, basically. For both areas it has just been depressing. But to answer the question, we are meeting discharge limits. Commissioner Fulton offered her sympathy for the position that all the good folks at DEM find themselves in, from the top down to the bottom. She has friends who have people working over at the Hilo WWTP and hears how guys are being sent all over the island, and the County government has deferred maintenance on our wastewater treatment system for decades, and now it’s catching up to us, and we are coming to a point of crisis. But it’s not the fault of people working at in wastewater. It’s the lack of funding due to that Division. And at this point we have to do anything we can to get more funding going to DEM. Chair Adams asked about the WIFIA money that was approved to buy generators. She was asking why generators were the No. 1 priority for the money. Chief Beck said that when she talked to Deputy Director Brenda Iokepa-Moses, she said it had to be for a specific use. Chief Beck said she inquired as to whether the money could be used for some of the repairs that are needed. She didn’t know too much about that. The Deputy Director may have more information on that. 8 Link to slides presented to Council’s RAWEEM Committee: http://records.hawaiicounty.gov/weblink/DocView.aspx?dbid=1&id=112837 16 Chair Adams commented that when you are going for federal money, there are so many restrictions around what you can do with it, that it’s not free money. It takes a lot of effort and you have to be careful about how you ask for it. Commissioner McIntosh asked whether the County has money for the N‘lehu and Phala sewer upgrades. Chief Beck said that for Phala, she believed there is SRF funding. For Nlehu, there might be, but she was not sure what the status is. She does know that DOH’s ability to distribute funds is limited. Even at “X” amount of money, they can only reimburse a certain amount each year. For the details, she would have to check with Deputy Chief Takamura. 7.REPORTS/CORRESPONDENCE 9 Director’s Informational Report. (Note: the report is posted online with the agenda under www.hawaiicounty.gov>Our County> County Calendar> (Meeting date). a. Legislative update Chair Adams said wanted to provide a clarification on Resolution No. 239-21. It is her understanding that the resolution was about a topic that Council Member Kimball will bring to the Hawai‘i State Association of Counties. This opens the door to recognize that the whole State needs to look for innovative ways to fund wastewater,because we are not the only county that is suffering. It is a national or international concern. All this resolution says is that HSAC can include it in its discussion package to take to the Legislature. And we as a Commission are almost obligated to come up with some of those innovative ways to fund wastewater solutions. And in the testimony and the discussions that Vice Chair Gaffney has had, we are trying to look at some of the things mentioned in the solid waste funding options paper, including public private partnerships, and we are looking for ways to sell the reused water rather than treat it as waste. We could sell the compost from the sludge in the wastewater treatment plant. So it’s looking at it as a source of revenue, getting creative, looking at where we might need to eliminate some of the legal barriers, as well as just finding hard cash. b. Requests for updates: The commissioners have requested informational updates on the following: a. Nlehu/Phala LCC status c.Solid Waste Division Projects and Updates, including ISWMP Priorities Implementation and Recycling d. Wastewater Division Projects and Updates There was no additional discussion on 7-b, 7-c, or 7-d. 9 Director’s Informational Report: http://records.hawaiicounty.gov/weblink/DocView.aspx?dbid=1&id=112863 17 Chair Adams said there is a fair amount of information in the Director’s Report, and anyone who has follow-up questions can contact the Department or ask for them to be put on the agenda for the next meeting. 8. FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS Chair Adams said we will see what kind of progress the ad hoc committee is making on barriers to private recycling. She will talk with Council Member Richards and see what communications we can have with the Council in brainstorming mode. If there are other items that members know we want to get on the agenda, let her know. 9. ANNOUNCEMENTS The next meeting is November 24, and it will be online. Commissioners reviewed with the Deputy Corporation Counsel and the Secretary the 10 pertaining to board meetings that are going into effect on requirements of the new law January 1. One of the new requirements for remote meetings is to host a location open to the public, so this will be attempted as a trial run at the November 24, 2021, meeting, at Building G, the Community Meeting Hale, at the West Hawai‘i Civic Center. Vice Chair Gaffney also asked Commissioners to be prepared to handle an appeal of the Director’s order. Deputy Corporation Counsel Sinclair Salas-Ferguson said he could not comment on that because it was not on the agenda, but if and when it gets to that point he will send something out to have members prepared. He also said he will be out on paternity leave and Deputy Corporation Counsel Keyra Wong will be covering the November meeting. Vice Chair Gaffney said any appeal should be handled in a special meeting, to which the Chair agreed. 10. ADJOURNMENT Motion, second, and vote: Commissioner Olsonmade a motion to adjourn, to which Vice Chair Gaffneyseconded, and the motion was adopted. Ayes: 6 (Adams, Fulton, Gaffney, McIntosh, Olson, Robinson); Nays 0; Absent 3 (Burns, Cardwell, Hoopii). Meeting adjourned at 11:53 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Peter Sur, Secretary 10 “Open Meetings: Guide to the Sunshine Law for State and County Boards” https://oip.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/2021-Sunshine-GUIDE.pdf 18