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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-11-12 Redistricting Commission minutes (7th Session) 2021 HAWAII COUNTY REDISTRICTING COMMISSION 7'h Session Friday, November 12, 2021 County Council Chambers 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii 96720 ATTENDANCE: Present: Ms. Lehuanani Ah Nee, Commissioner (via Zoom) Mr. `Rina Akamu, Commissioner(via Zoom) Ms. Stephanie Bath, Commissioner Mr. James Hustace, Vice Chairperson Mr. Bronsten-Glenn Kossow, Chairperson Mr. Meizhu Lui, Commissioner(joined later via Zoom) Ms. Jennifer Yadao, Commissioner Mr. Dwayne Yoshina, Commissioner Also Present: Debbie Ka`ahanui-Hoyohoy, Elections Assistant Diana Mellon-Lacey, Deputy Corporation Counsel Pat Nakamoto, Elections Program Administrator Cori Saiki, Elections Program Specialist I Dennis Kauka Jr., Legislative Specialist/ Secretary CALL TO ORDER: KOSSOW: Aloha and welcome to the 6h [sic] Session of the County of Hawaii Redistricting Commission. Today is Friday, November 12'', 2021. My name is Bronsten Kossow. I'm the Chairperson for this Commission. First, I would like to express an announcement here. Because of the Coronavirus emergency and State and Federal guidance on large meetings or gatherings and pursuant to the Mayor's proclamations regarding COVID-19, the Redistricting Commission meetings are currently not open to the public to attend in person until further notice. Members of the public may view or provide oral testimony via the Zoom platform by requesting for the information as noticed on our posted agendas. Thank you for your understanding. I'm calling the meeting to order. The time is 9:36 a.m. ROLL CALL Welcome new Commissioner Lehuanani Ah Nee, representing Council District 3. Commissioner Ah Nee was appointed by Mayor Roth on October 14, 2021 to fill the District 3 vacancy and confirmed by the County Council on November 3, 2021. The Commission will welcome its new commissioner and Commissioner Ah Nee may offer introductory comments on her background. KOSSOW: Now, for roll call. We have a newly seated Commissioner, Ms. Ah Nee. I would like to take this moment to congratulate her for coming on to the Commission. If she wants to take two minutes just to introduce herself. I will give the floor to her. AH NEE: Aloha mai kakou. My name is Lehuanani. (Commissioner Ah Nee began her introduction in `olelo Hawai`i) Mahalo nui for having me here today. Aloha, my name is Lehuanani Waipa Ah Nee and you can call me Lehua. I am born and raised in Keaukaha, the Hawaiian Homestead Village of Keaukaha. I am currently a teacher at Ke Ana La`ahana Public Charter School, teaching both photography and navigation, along with genealogy of place and space, as well as historical preservation of our coastal areas in Keaukaha. Born and raised here in Hilo, and forgive me, I stepped away from my classroom because it is a school day for us. I was a Keaukaha Elementary student, then went to Hilo High. So,proud graduate of Hilo High School, Class of '99. Graduated from the University of Hawaii at Hilo with a degree in Anthropology. And then went on to get my Master's in Photography and Fine Arts at Academy of Art University in San Francisco. I'm very proud to be where I'm from. This is a very new space for me. So, I've been trying to catch up on what the redistricting committee is about. And looking through Chapter 23 and trying to understand and bring myself up to date on what's already been in the role since prior to me coming on. I still have a little bit of catching up to do. Still want to make sure that I have all my ducks in order and that I do proper research on what this commission is about and what we can do to contribute to the whole of Hawaii County. I hope that my service and my seat here at this redistricting committee serves my `ohana, serves by kaiaulu, my community, and serves my Moku o Keawe, so here on Hawaii Island. Aloha. Nice to meet you all. 2 KOSSOW: Mahalo nui, Ms. Ah Nee. Mr. Kauka,please call the roll. KAUKA: Thank you, Chair. Just to clarify, welcome Commissioner Lehua. We are glad to have you today. Certainly, Commissioner Lehua can participate in conversation and dialogue today. Unfortunately, though, we have not been able to swear her in. To perform her swearing into the Commission since she was confirmed by Council last week. So, Commissioner Lehua just will not be able to vote today on the proceedings or make any motions. Thank you. Roll call: Commissioner Lui, (No response), Commissioner Yoshina "Here," Commissioner Yadao "Here," Commissioner Bath "Here," Commissioner Akamu, "Present via Zoom," Commissioner Lopez, "Excused" (per Chair Kossow), Commissioner Hustace, "Present, Kona Chambers", Chair Kossow, "Present, Hilo Chambers." Thank you, Chair. We have six Commissioners present and we have quorum. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. As a reminder, during the meeting, we are working with Commissioners in multiple locations. The audio of the meeting is being recorded so as much as possible, let's try to avoid overtalk. It might be a little bit difficult to later dictate in the minutes. Please keep your microphones on mute unless you are speaking. And we ask for members of the public who are tuned in as well. Commissioners in either Chambers, your microphone can be activated by pressing the button at the base. I won't be able to recognize you if the audio is not coming through so be sure to check if that's on first when speaking. As I am presiding from Hilo today, Commissioners here with me, please turn your light on or get my attention to be recognized. For those in Kona, or on Zoom,please speak out with your name if you need to be recognized and I will do my best to navigate. After I recognize you, please state your name for the recording transcription and proceed. If you don't state your name first, we may interrupt to clarify who is speaking on the minutes. Thank you all. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS KOSSOW: Now, for statements from the public. Testifiers, please note, you will have three minutes for each item on the agenda to provide your statement. If you are speaking on multiple items, please indicate when you are transitioning. We kindly ask that you wait until called upon to unmute yourself. If there are issues when you are called, after trying for some time, we may have to move on while staff tries to work with you offline and we'll try to get back to you. When there are thirty seconds remaining, we may indicate this to you and ask that you summarize. Before you speak,please state your name for the record and the item you are testifying on. Mr. Kauka? KAUKA: Thank you, Chair. This morning we have Ms. Brenda Ford joining us. Ms. Ford, I'm not sure if you had testimony today but if you do, you may go ahead now and unmute yourself. (No response.) 3 KOSSOW: Alright, Mr. Kauka, I'll go ahead and move on. If she does come back, then we'll take her testimony. APPROVAL OF MINUTES September 23, 2021 meeting 3rd session September 30, 2021 meeting 4rh session (training) KOSSOW: Moving over to approval of minutes. Commissioners, we have two sessions of minutes. Both were provided to you and publicly posted last Friday, November 5h. May I have a motion to, first approve the September 23rd minutes and a second? Mr. Hustace moved to approve the minutes of the September 23, 2021, meeting. Seconded by Ms. Bath. The motion to approve the minutes of the September 23, 2021 meeting was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Akamu, Bath, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioners Lopez and Lui. KOSSOW: We're going to move over to the September 30'h. Can I get a motion to approve the September 30d', which was our training session minutes? Can I get a motion for that and a second? Ms. Bath moved to approve the minutes of the September 30, 2021, training session. Seconded by Mr. Hustace. The motion to approve the minutes of the September 30, 2021 training session was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Akamu, Bath, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Lopez and Lui. KOSSOW: The minutes have been passed for September 30tH 4 COMMUNICATIONS KOSSOW: Commissioners, we have a couple of communications on today's schedule. First, Dennis would you go ahead and read Communication 23? KAUKA: Communication 23 From Deputy Corporation Counsel Diana M. Mellon-Lacey: responding to an inquiry from a commissioner regarding clarifications on the process for considering an additional council district. KOSSOW: Thank you, Commissioners. Do you have any questions for Ms. Mellon- Lacey? BATH: No questions,just thank you for clarifying that we would need to go through that process as a Commission. KOSSOW: Any other questions or comments? (No response.) Okay. I would like to get a motion and second to close the file on Communication 23. Can I get a motion? Mr. Yoshina moved to close the file on Communication 23. Seconded by Ms. Bath. The motion to close the file on Communication 23 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Akamu, Bath Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Lopez and Lui. KOSSOW: Thank you. Communication 23 is filed. Mr. Kauka? KAUKA: Thank you. Summary of comments received during public hearings Pursuant to Section 3-17(e) of the Hawaii County Charter, the Commission shall hold at least one public hearing in each of the nine council districts prior to completing a draft of the redistricting plan. KOSSOW: I'm opening this up for discussion. I'm sure everybody was able to get this. When did you send that out, Dennis? 5 KAUKA: This was sent yesterday, Chair. It's Communication 24 which should also be in packets for those who are present in the chambers. KOSSOW: Do we have any discussion that we would like to discuss on Communication 24? HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I first want to thank members of the public that attended these meetings and took the time to join us at those nine public hearings. Their input is valued and appreciated so, mahalo nui. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Any other discussion regarding Communication 24? (No response.) May I have motion to close file on summary of comments received during the public hearings? And we'll go ahead and move on. Ms. Bath moved to close file on the summary. Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. The motion to close the file on the summary was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Akamu, Bath, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Lopez and Lui.. KOSSOW: Motion carries to close. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (continued) KOSSOW: Ms. Ford, I see that you are online. Would you like to testify? BRENDA FORD FORD: Yes, sir. Thank you. And my apologies. Every time I try to unmute, I got dropped so, thank you. My comments today are going to be generic. I looked at many of the plans, not all of them, however, there's one consistent flaw that I'm seeing in almost every plan I look at. When you have two points inside of a district, in order to get from Point A to Point B, you need to stay inside the district. That is, you cannot leave District 1 and drive around to get to District 1 again. You have to have everything in District 1, accessible within District 1. I noticed this problem, specifically up in current District 9, by trying to 6 add sections of Waimea area into District 1. You have to actually leave District 1 over in Hilo, drive up Saddle Road to get to the districts over in Kohala. That's a problem. In current District 5 and 6, 5 being where Kealakekua is, that area, and District 6 being Ka`u, there's a central portion of current District 7, which is only accessible by current District 7 and yet it has been added in on some of the plans to District 6 in Ka`u. You got to look to where the roads are. That means you got to expand the maps a lot to see how you get to all the different places. So, those problems exist all over. In almost every map I'm finding problems, and I would recommend that you seriously expand those maps. And look at where the roads are before you say, this is what should be, where it should be. You've got to be able to have connectivity within your district. That's basically what I want to say today. I'm available for any questions. I'm not going to speak on particular maps. I think that's the Commission's job, for you to look at those maps in really, really great detail. Thank you though for your time. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Ford. NEW BUSINESS KOSSOW: Commissioners, before we proceed, we've moving over to new business. I'd like to suggest that we step out of order on our agenda. I thought it may make some sense for us to move to new business, item 1, as indicated on the agenda. This is a really good framework that we can start our discussions on. So, without any objection, I'd like to do that. Then, we can take up our maps and wrap up with the timeline progress item. Thank you. Mr. Kauka, if you can please read number 1 of new business. Unless anybody has any objections? (No response.) Okay, Mr. Kauka. KAUKA: Thank you, Chair. New business item: 1. Discussion on potential district changes, adjustments, and rationale re ag rding the Commission draft plan and report Requested by Commissioner Bath, commissioners may discuss, share, and exchange their thoughts and views about their respective and adjacent districts. KOSSOW: Thank you, Commissioner Bath, for submitting this. If you want to go ahead and start the discussion. BATH: Thank you. One of the things that, for me, didn't occur, was the Commissioners having a dialogue to understand about our individual districts. I've used the term Kona- centric, but I'm Puna-centric. Whatever district we're in, we're focusing on that. I think there's some expansion into other areas. I love Ka`u. My business was in Hilo for twenty- six years. I have a sense of place and different things. But as Commissioners, we haven't had that dialogue. The first question that I actually have, and I want to answer it to my understanding, what is the point of the redistricting? I understand that it's to draw political lines so that each district can be equally represented. It'd be politics equals representation. The I got to thinking, well, what is the purpose of representation? In 7 government, for me, that's to deliver a level of service to the communities that they're serving, that they're representing. Ultimately, we're talking about, for me, when I look at the lines, I'm looking at the ultimate goal is providing a level of service to each of the districts that's fair. Puna has been sorely lacking. Especially upper Puna and a delivery of those services. And it's changing because the demographics of it have changed. I think that Patrice MacDonald had, in her testimony, mentioned that Hawaiian Acres, the census wasn't accurate. I can believe that, but it is what it is and we're working with the census numbers right now. I wanted to get an idea of what the other Commissioners' understanding of this redistricting is. Because for me, it's level of service, particularly the health and safety of our communities. Without health and without safety, it doesn't matter how many `ohi`a trees we have if we're not alive to appreciate them. What's the point? So, that's how I wanted to start the conversation or the dialogue with the other Commissioners. KOSSOW: Thank you, Commissioner Bath. She did ask a question to open it up to the other Commissioners if anybody wants to take a jab at it or maybe think about it for a second. But I think you summarized it pretty well. In the fact of redistricting is creating the political boundary lines. It all really depends on the representation to it too. It is a major decision to make, a boundary line, and the considerations you have to make. You have diversified people, from rural to urban, to agriculture and so we have to make all those considerations into ideally creating the redistricting maps in the next few weeks here. Anybody else want to take a jab into the question? HUSTACE: Chair, I can jump in on a couple things. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Commissioner Bath, for posing this question to the Commissioners. I believe that it is strictly political boundaries that we're drawing here. You're right, there is a balance we have to make for each of the districts so that they have an equal and fair representation at the council level. I don't necessarily believe that it is for a level of service. Indirectly it is, but that's not what we're doing here. We're drawing political boundaries. These imaginary lines that divide up the County into these nine districts that will then in turn give you a representative to provide you that level of service. We're not here to carve up communities. Though, I know some sacrifices will have to be made because the numbers don't quite fit in certain areas. For instance, we can talk about District I for a second. That's definitely a challenge because that district is a largely rural community, and it is wedged between Waimea and Hilo. The conversation we need to have is, in those kind of instances, does it move one way or the other or a little bit of both. This is what the last commission kind of dealt with too. While we've seen population growth in some areas, it hasn't match in other communities. We have to make some changes and some sacrifices to the boundary lines. Not all the public will be happy with some of the changes we'll make. That's just something we have to acknowledge. But we can try and do our best to keep the communities together where they are. Some communities will have to be split or carved out in some places. It's just part of this political boundary processing. We want to keep them together as much as possible for the 8 sake of their vote and their representation so that we're not diluting their voting power, but we're keeping those blocks together. And that they would represent a strong voice to that elected official that they so choose, at that time. It really is, this is political boundaries we're drawing here, and I don't want to see these communities divided up. I'm having a hard time in my district, in carving things up. But my neighboring districts, they need more. There have to be some changes made and we have to shift these lines around. At least that's where my train of thought is right now. I welcome thoughts from other commissioners. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow, this is Dwayne Yoshina. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I have a question as to how immutable this concept of community is. If we have to sacrifice community for a number, which is more important? KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina, is that a question to all the commissioners? Or is that a question to YOSHINA: It's a general discussion kind of question. I guess it comes down to a legal interpretation of all of this. But if you have to make a choice, say between a basic island unit and a number, what do you do? At least at the State level, it seems that they decided that the basic island unit is more important than the conceptual model. I guess the question comes down to a legal interpretation of that. So, is the community more important than the deviation between the districts? Sorry, I think this needs a little bit more discussion but that's as clear as I can get. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. I think at some point when a community reaches a certain threshold of population, that's where we have to make that split. You know, those urban areas, they rightly so get more votes because the dense population in those areas. The deviation that we're granted gives us an opportunity to be inclusive and try and capture the entirety of a community. I think that's important, to use that deviation. We may want to say, okay let's try and get to that 22,232 exactly, but that deviation grants us an opportunity to make sure that whole community is within that vote and we're not diluting them in another district. YOSHINA: Thanks, James. If you have to put these different categories of law into a spectrum, which one outweighs the other? Mr. Chair, you have the Corp Counsel. KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey. 9 MELLON-LACEY: According to the Code, section 36.4 says that: Ifpracticable, socio- economic criteria used in developing the plan, not specifically set forth in this chapter, shall be identified, documented, and approved by majority vote of the commission, before drawing proposed council district boundaries. Ifpracticable, socio-economic groups shall be kept together. I think you have the limitation that the program provides on the maximum deviation and all but, you have latitude if you can justify it. If you decide that you need to go over the deviation approved amount, but you have a reason, and you believe that it justifies doing it, and this commission agrees on it, then you can do that. I think the program can make it feel kind of mechanical, but you aren't locked in if you have a reason. You have to have a rational basis. Some of these questions, they are philosophical and there's not going to be a pat answer. It does bear looking at the communities and what happens when you break certain ones up. What does it mean? I've heard a lot of talk like, you can't split HPP but, I could think in my mind, well, Department of Education has done that. They've split HPP in terms of where children go to school. There's lots of things to look at and consider and there's not one right answer. As long as you have the justification, and I think this is a very important dialogue today, but it isn't like there's going to be someplace to go that's going to give you that definitive answer. That is the right way to go. I think that we have, even today, the concern that Commissioner Bath has expressed, about community and service. And then the viewpoint of Mr. Hustace, that the focus needs to be more on the political component. So, you have a continuum here and it's not like somebody's right and somebody's wrong. Generally, in the law, courts consider if you come down to that,reasonable actions. If you have a reason and it makes sense, it's defensible. If it's just kind of not making any sense, and just arbitrary, that's when you get into trouble with things. This is a challenge to the commission. And I think it's especially a challenge at this point in time because the growth in our island has been really significant in certain areas and there's a lot of change occurring. So, you have a difficult task here. I'm impressed with this discussion. YOSHINA: I have an additional question. When you have to make these decisions, and justify these decisions, how important is that one person, one vote? The constitutional requirement. MELLON-LACEY: It's difficult because I haven't found anything that suggests that there are any particular weights attached to particular factors. YOSHINA: Okay. So, for example, the State constitution says that we could have canoe districts. And it's my understanding that our representatives have decided that the basic island unit is more important than the canoe district. Is that right? MELLON-LACEY: I really can't answer that. YOSHINA: Okay. From what I'm gathering from your comment, if I believe that community X is very important to remain X instead of XI and X2, as long as I can justify that, it's okay. 10 MELLON-LACEY: Yes. But this group has to agree. It's not one commissioner's opinion. YOSHINA: And at some point, somebody could challenge that, right? MELLON-LACEY: Yes. That's the thing. That's why you have to have a justification for the decisions that you make. But that's not to say that you can't be challenged on it. That would remain to be seen. YOSHINA: Thank you. BATH: Chair, I have a question. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina, you yield? YOSHINA: Yes. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Thank you. Thank you for that information. That was most helpful. MELLON-LACEY: You're welcome. KOSSOW: Do we have any other discussion regarding new business P HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you. Yeah,just going back on my earlier points. It's important that, when we're proposing these boundary lines and that we have these communities within them, that once again, that their voice is not diluted. Some of these areas are going to be large. We need to be cognizant that the representative that those people select are going to have to represent all those different communities. And that there are going to be many different voices in one. So, you don't want to dilute those voices whether it's our homesteaders. I've had concern about that in our district, about not making sure that the homesteads are divided. Of course, Ms. Bath, you're on the east side of the island, right? About not dividing some of those communities. Just a chance that those voices aren't diluted so that their representative has the full strength of the community going forward. We're drawing these representational boundaries. These people have to be represented by a single person going to the Council and they have to carry the voice of all those distinct communities within them. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Ms. Bath. 11 BATH: What I'd like to do is,just give a little overview of my district. Jennifer, I'm going to give little bit of an overview of District 4 and correct me if I need to be corrected. District 5, as far as community, really encompasses from Volcano Village down to Kea`au. But right now, Volcano Village is in Ka`u district and that is what it is. One of the things that I wanted to share is that, I really can't talk about District 5 without talking about District 4. Because District 5 actually extends down to Kalapana, and that area down there. They are serviced by the Chain of Craters Road, which people don't use. It's an emergency access route, sort of. Unless Pele takes it out, as she almost did. The main trends are that they use Highway 130, and they use Pahoa as their town. Currently, Pahoa is split. Now, I understand that the reason why Pahoa town, the actual town, is split in half is because they needed to use that rule about areas not having to leave their district. They had to remain in their district to transverse to the next district. So, Kalapana and that area was put into District 5 and Pahoa town was split. These areas are definitely lower Puna. So, that's a big one in District 5. Part of what should be District 4 is in our community and they really polarize towards District 4. Another thing that I think is really important to consider is, road redundancy and the lack of road redundancy both in upper and lower Puna. You have 130 servicing District 4, and you have Highway 11 servicing District 5. If something happens at Highway 11 then, District 6 gets cut off as well. Because they can't transverse to their doctor's appointments in Hilo, if they choose to get services in Hilo, rather than Kona. We're talking about people, and although we're talking about representation, we're talking about levels of services and health of safety of the people of Hawaii County. In the Community Development Plan, although this is politics and not planning, I think that it's important to consider things like road redundancy. If we split up the subdivisions to the north of Highway 11, if we split those up, then we won't be able to have the redundancy and the connectivity that we're seeking. So, that the Police and the Fire and the emergency responders can go from one subdivision to the next without having to go out to Highway 11. I know this is a lot for you Kona folks, I don't know if you're following Ka`u but, it's a huge issue for health and safety. Currently what's happening with District 4, is that because of the congestion down on Highway 130, people from HPP, from `Ainaloa, from lower Puna, are taking `Ainaloa Boulevard and cutting up into District 5 and the flowing through private subdivision roads onto Highway 11 causing congestion. So, road redundancy is really needed. If we split up District 5, we're not going to be able to I'm concerned about representation to have that happen. And again, whenever I talk about District 5, I always think of District 6. Upper Puna has a lot of native rainforests. And, currently with the development that's happening, we have County grubbing and grading laws. The grubbing and grading laws are sort of not on the radar. What happens is, bulldozers come in and they bulldoze the communities in upper Puna and the runoff floods everything down the mountain from there. Causing a lot of problems for health and safety. I think we need to really consider when we're drawing the lines, roads, and the level of service. I don't agree that this is about politics. The only reason there's politics is because of people in communities, and we need to keep them intact. The other thing as far as lower Puna is the consideration of the (indiscernible), the road that part of it was built during the eruption and having some redundancy for lower Puna. In the forty years that I've been here, I've seen 130 shut down more times than I'd like to see and it's concerning that an ambulance can't get through. It might seem like I'm going off track here, but I don't think that I am 12 because we're talking about communities, redundancy, and health and safety as we draw these political lines for representatives who will in fact provide a level of service. Not just for Puna, but the other districts on the island. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Any other discussion? BATH: Chair, I'd really to hear from the other Commissioners about their districts. It's important to me so that I'm not Puna-centric. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Is there any other Commissioners who would like to talk about their district a little bit more? (No response.) HUSTACE: Sorry about that, Chair. We lost connection over here in Kona. KOSSOW: Sorry about that, Mr. Hustace. Right now, we're still on discussion 1. And to summarize, Ms. Bath passionately discussed about the boundary lines and the overall issues that Puna has, and what we should do. And so, she wanted to see if anybody else would like to talk about their districts. Mr. Hustace, did you have anything for your district? HUSTACE: Thanks, Chair. I can jump to that in a second. I just wanted to go back and ask Ms. Bath about something. You mentioned, right around when we cut off about service and emergency service. I'm kind of struggling with this concept because, we're not putting up a wall or any boundary, or any physical boundary that's preventing service from going places. We're drawing a political boundary that either gives a community a voice, or a different voice, and it's up to their representative and the person that they select to give them the service that they need. And then, carve out the roads that they want, make sure the emergency vehicles are going where they are supposed to be going, but we're not preventing certain vehicles from going in different directions. That's why I'm struggling with what you're saying. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace, are you yielding? HUSTACE: Yes. KOSSOW: Thank you. Any other Commissioners? BATH: Chair. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Was he trying to get clarification there? `Cause I can shed a little light on it, if that's what he's asking. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace, was that a question? 13 HUSTACE: It's something I'm struggling with. We've had these topics and comments brought up at previous meetings. I don't see that line of reason because the fire station, we're not going to block off them from going to different districts. They have to go where they have to go. The CDP is based on geographical boundaries, this is all political based on representation. Trying to really find that equal representation, or as close to, as possible. So that communities have their equal say at the Council Chambers. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Ms. Bath? BATH: Okay. So, I'll give you an example of a political line that might affect the district. We have a fire station, an emergency response. Beautiful new facility down in Pahoa. And right now, logically speaking, the District 4 resources would need to service District 5 Kalapana. It makes more sense, if somebody's having a heart attack in Kalapana, for Pahoa, District 4, to respond to that, rather than someone from Kea`au. I was talking to a police officer who used to work in Puna, and now he's up Hamakua side, and he loves it. He says the crime is really reduced. And I said, but you know what,just for purposes of discussion, if the line for Hamakua was at Waianuenue, how would that affect you as an officer? And he said, oh well, Hilo would respond to that. So, the resources within a different district would be used to service an alternative district. That's just one example. I'm having a hard time with this political lines thing. I'd love to get better understanding about that. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. If I'm not mistaken, and I'll just comment on this, is that I think the police precincts areI think it's under the State that creates those boundary lines. That's under my assumption. Because in Kona for example, they have four different precincts and we don't really know who creates those boundary lines, for example. I think I understand where you're coming from when it comes to political boundary lines. But it is political in the sense that it's representing a people. It's representing the people that's in that district. So, I think that's why they call it a political boundary line. If that's what you're referring to versus politics being mixed into that. That's a whole different subject, I think. Mr. Yoshina? YOSHINA: So, that's why this is so interesting, right? That's why we're all here. I think we have to struggle through all of these questions. It seems to me that one of the things that we are lacking is that we've not had the opportunity to have these discussions. I would have liked to have seen these discussions at the very beginning. You know, this is just a comment. But we are here today. So, I think what we have to do is, we have to just kind of be bold and draw the lines and then justify what we are doing. That's the best we can do. And then put up with the complaints that we get, or people might be happy. That's my comment. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Is there any other discussion? KAUKA: Chair, this is Dennis, if I may. I just wanted to point out, Commissioners, for reference, Commissioner Lui did submit Communication 29 yesterday, which was 14 distributed. It's not labeled at the corner, but you'll see that as coming from her. It does relate to this discussion. She did advise, Chair, that she may be joining our meeting late today, so seeing as she hasn't been able to connect yet, I wanted to point that out for Commissioners. My apologies, I failed to mention at the beginning during testimony, but I should just for the record, refer you to written testimony that was received. Which is Communications 25 from Hope Cermelj, Communication 26 from Patrice MacDonald, 27 from Juliette Tulang, 28 from Joanne Pocsidio (I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing that), and Communication 30 form Christopher Czarnecki. Thank you, Chair. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. And thank you for bringing up Ms. Lui's testimony here, or discussion regarding her district. She does detail kind of what our discussions are here, when it comes to our philosophical beliefs in making some of these changes. She also questions, I remember reading this yesterday, is whether or not District 1 should be a part of Hilo or not, or versus Waimea. That discussion, obviously, we're probably going to have a little bit more today when we create these maps. But it would be important to note, I want everybody to know that, you're more than welcome to bring up anything that you feel is right for our community. That's the bottom line. That's the bottom of our philosophical idea of this Commission. I thank Mr. Yoshina. He's right with regards to prepping the conversation a little bit. And thank you, Ms. Bath, for introducing this discussion. It would be important to identify what our interests and issues are in our communities. Then we can kind of move forward from here. I'll open it up for more discussion. If anybody wants to talk about Ms. Lui's District 1 proposals. Or any other Commissioners wishing to talk about their districts. BATH: Chair. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Are you suggesting that now we put our shoulders to the wheel and start making proposals at this time? KOSSOW: I think we can wait till we get over to the draft maps. BATH: Okay. KOSSOW: Any other discussion regarding 1? HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Is that Mr. Hustace? HUSTACE: Yes, Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. 15 HUSTACE: A part of this conversation I think we should also make light, during the public hearings, a lot of the requests—and you as Commissioners, heard from your communities about we want this, we want this to be in our district, or this not to be in our district. So, we have to consider those things and at the same time, when we have the census data in front of us, and it shows these numbers. I hear there may be some disagreements with what those numbers are, but these are the numbers we have in front of us. This is what we have to work with. So, when we look at these numbers, and we talked about changes in the past and whether they're drastic or incremental, right? The truth is here that, like looking at Council 1, there are short 1,300 people to be on an equal playing field with the other districts so that their members are, you know. Right now, they'd be almost overrepresented with their 1,300 under their count there. Council 8 is over. These numbers I don't think, were made very clear to the public at these public hearings. Yes, I was grateful that that map was there at the public hearings, to see what the current districts look like, with the current counts in them. But I don't think that translates easily sometimes in seeing that, okay, this district is being under represented or over represented. This is where we have to come down. I agree with Corp Counsel about the potentiality of having and justifying these changes above the deviation or below that deviation we're allowed. But I really don't want to take that risk too much and have those challenges thrown against us. I think we can try our best to stay within the five percent either way would be—I think we can do it. I think it's possible. Seeing the maps out there that you've all created. But it's important to be very clear that some of these communities and these districts have grown. Some have grown more than others and have not kept pace. We've got to make sure that we are trying to get to this equal playing field for the districts or the representation of our Hawaii County people. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Any further discussion before we close new business? BATH: Question for Mr. Hustace. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Mr. Hustace, a question. You just said that, to paraphrase what you said, we've heard from communities during the public hearing. Do you feel satisfied that you've heard from your community and other communities island wide during the public hearings? Do you have a sense that you can make decisions based on the community's input at this time? I yield. HUSTACE: Thank you, Commissioner Bath. Unfortunately, I have to say no. I was grateful to the people that did come to the public hearings and spend time with us. We did try and spend, in some areas, there were people that had more to say, so we spent more time with them. Which is wonderful. Sometimes the three minutes goes by pretty quickly for the testifiers. Some of the communities, unfortunately, we didn't see anyone come. I was very disheartened by that. I would love to hear from more of our community members about how they see their boundary lines and their communities. And what they know from the past commission that needs to be changed, right? That's always a good 16 tell of—they've lived in it for ten years plus. They've seen this iteration for ten years. Maybe they see some edges that need to be shifted and unfortunately, I wish more had attended. I am a little nervous that the two public hearings that are coming up, we may have a lot more people and it may be overwhelming. I can't say but, it makes me a little nervous about that. I'm grateful for the testimony that's been coming in through the email process, through the staff, and Mr. Kauka. I know there were concerns at those public hearings about, oh where are the maps? Where are the maps? They were up online. They were not in the easiest of places to find. Whether through the map building software, or on the website where they've been uploaded to, eventually. But there was kind of like a hitch. Part of that is our process here, the delay of the census, like all these things have compounded into a very difficult step for us here. I would have wished they would have seen some more of these proposed maps and keyed on a couple things here and there. Unfortunately, I wish more people would have attended and voiced their opinions. I encourage them to do so, going forward through email testimony or joining these calls. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Any other discussion? BATH: Yeah. I really apologize, but I don't apologize for speaking. There are many people on this island that do not have internet access. It's a fact. And so, to even consider that they would be able to access maps, which people who I know have been involved in government and community process themselves, had issues with linking to. I really want to speak for that silent community of people. Senior citizens that might not have the capacity or the understanding and the knowledge to be able to transverse websites. These are people in our community. These are voters. These are people that are involved in the political process. I just need to say that for those people. That they don't have access to the internet. I yield. HUSTACE: Mr. Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Commissioner Bath, I don't doubt you at all. That is a big hiccup that we have in our communities. That's why I wish we had these maps, either in a physical form at those meetings or some other method of delivery to them. Even our current elected officials, they have some capacity to connect with those communities as well. There is some potential there. I'm just reaching out and hoping that larger community can come together and work together on these different issues, and then provide input on this process. Thank you. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui, thank you for joining us. LUL Thanks. Sorry, I'm late. Just wondering, on that point, will there be physical maps available in the two meetings that we hold after there are maps proposed? I'm done. 17 NAKAMOTO: Good morning. Pat Nakamoto, Elections Administrator. We can have the maps available. Whatever the Commission would like to have at the meetings, we'll make it available. You would need to let us know in what format you want the maps. LUL Thank you. I would request that we do have physical maps at those two big meetings. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Any other discussion? (No response.) I believe Ms. Ford wanted to ask a question. If we can just give her two minutes? FORD: Thank you, Chair. First of all, thank you all of you, for allowing me to speak beyond the initial testimony. But since I wrote the law, that you are now struggling with, I feel like I can help a little bit. The reason I wrote the maximum deviation of ten percent, is based on the U.S. Supreme Court ruling that said, anything that exceeds ten percent maximum deviation is prima facie evidence of gerrymandering. So, when I think about the law as defined by the Supreme Court, to me, that is the most important, the number one thing you cannot do. I wrote in the plus or minus five percent deviation for the districts, in order to force the commission, you, or any other commission, to try to equalize the populations between districts. Forgive me for saying this publicly, but I had to not consider the ancient Hawaiian boundaries. Because frankly, the U.S. Supreme Court couldn't give you know what about our boundaries. We're all emotionally linked to those boundaries, but the court system is not. I'm not saying it's not important, it is important. Especially if people have emotional attachments to our boundaries. But the first one is, you cannot exceed ten percent. Now, I do agree with Corporation Counsel. As long as you do not exceed the ten percent maximum deviation, any other one of those rules can be voted on by you to say, we're not going to adhere to Brenda's law of plus or minus five percent. If you want to go seven percent here, and three percent there, as long as you vote on it,put it in the records for a court to look at, then you're still good to go. So, I agree with Corporation Counsel on that. Please don't think about the maximum deviation going beyond ten percent. With those caveats, I agree with Corporation Counsel. And thank you again. I'll try to keep getting involved in this. I've been doing this now for twenty plus years and I get real passionate about it. Which is why I wrote the law. By the way, the other reason I wrote the law, is because Puna got screwed in 2001. I'm very, very concerned about Puna not getting screwed again. Okay but, with those things said, you still have to make those tough decisions. Thank you. I apologize. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Ford. Do we have any other discussions from Commissioners? Ms. Lui. LUL Just a clarification. And I really appreciate Brenda's participation. Thank you so much, Brenda. It's helpful for those of us who don't have experience like yours. Does that apply to the rule about contiguousness? That might be a question for Corporation Counsel. Thank you. FORD: I'm willing to answer that question if the Chair recognizes me. 18 KOSSOW: Ms. Ford if you can just be brief in your answer. FORD: I'll be brief. You should talk to Corporation Counsel about that. I'm sure if there was a very justifiable reason that would stand up in a court of law, not just the Supreme Court, local law, then you could do it. But please trust your Corporation Counsel on that question. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui, do you mind restating your question to Corporation Counsel? LUL Ms. Ford mentioned that we could decide not to follow some of the guidelines that were set down. I was wondering about the one on contiguity or whatever the word might be. If there was a case where there was a community that was associated 1 but the census blocks don't connect them. I was wondering if we could waive that rule. KOSSOW: Thank you. MELLON-LACEY: This is Diana Mellon-Lacey, Corporation Counsel. I think that is a harder rule to waive because that is clearly stated as something we're supposed to be striving for. But it's really hard to talk about hypotheticals. I think if you have a specific plan in mind and you have a justification for it, we will have to look at it on a case-by- case basis. That is a key factor of where the lines are drawn, is keeping the contiguity. Sorry, I can't give a better answer than that on a hypothetical. KOSSOW: Alright, I'd like to move on. We'll do a five-minute break here and then we'll come back here at 10:47. Thank you. (Five-minute recess.) KOSSOW: Alright, calling the meeting back to order. I would like to go back to new business 1. If we want to continue on with this conversation, I would recommend that we table this for the next meeting. Or if we want to close this discussion, we can make a motion to file it. Ms. Bath? BATH: I'd like this discussion to be on the table throughout the whole process, until we're done. KOSSOW: Alright. We'll go ahead and table new business 1. UNFINISHED BUSINESS KOSSOW: And then we'll go ahead and head over to unfinished business. Commissioners, we're going to go ahead and continue to look at the map plans proposed and submitted on ESRI, our online tool. For members of the pubic who may be viewing, please note at any point of clarification, the Commission has not yet or developed or made any conclusions on its draft plan to present yet. This is part of the process. Not 19 every plan proposed may be considered. The best way to view these proposals is on the website because you can zoom in specific parts of the maps to see what they ideas are in this point. But nothing has yet been selected. The maps online are available on the link that's posted on the agenda for today. It's linked to the Elections page website, or you may call the Commission staff at the number listed on all of our materials. Now as we proceed, and dive into the plans that we were considering, we'll get into timelines later on today, I'd like to remind us of our timing ahead. Although, we are trying to settle on a draft plan by December 9h, we should note that sooner we are able to decide, the sooner the public will be able to digest what we are presenting as our draft plan. If we can do this sooner, we should try to. We should also note that the draft plan is not final. So, we should keep that in mind as we go through these together and eventually start voting on the plan. There will be two more public hearings, and other opportunities during our meetings, for the public to weigh in. Then revisions can be made. So, all this considered Commissioners, I'd like to lay out as a form of organization to our discussion, as we review the plans going forward and Commissioners having a chance to review these. Let's consider actual motions. I will entertain motions from any Commissioners to accept any one of the plans submitted as our draft plan, and a second. We can then discuss the merits of the plan and amend boundary lines or whatever we see to change and make and take up a vote. This gives us an opportunity to foundation set one map and move forward from there with some tweaks here and there. I'm hoping this method will center our conversations to make progress on selecting one. Staff or Corporation Counsel are present to provide clarity and guidance. We also have staff to project the map onto the screen if any Commissioner wants to see any specific deviations or adjusting boundary lines. And we can do that all live on the map. We can do that, and we can also save the map too. Let's go ahead and focus on this discussion. I'd like to have one map become at least a tentative draft plan before concluding today's meeting and we could even vote to postpone action on the map, to work on it more in this next meeting. But we'll at least have a working draft moving forward. Thank you. Mr. Kauka, go ahead with alternate plans. KAUKA: Thank you, Chair. 1. Alternate Plans. The Commission may review, discuss, and consider any alternate redistricting plans received from the public pursuant to Hawaii County Code Chapter 36, Article 5. Plans proposed may be viewed at the link provided. hIIps.11tirc g.i jC" e10 KOSSOW: Alright, Commissioners. Although we've received one alternate plan from the public, which is Ms. Ford's, this remains as an item so that we can continue to consider the map proposed by Ms. Ford, as we deliberate on our draft plan. Are there any comments, thoughts, or questions, about hers? Or if not, we can take up number 2 and get into the plans by the members of this Commission. Ms. Lui? LUL I agree with your process, Chair Kossow. But I think that it might help me, we've heard from the public to some degree, but I don't know what the other Commissioners 20 are thinking. I wondered if we could move the new business item of Ms. Bath's, where each one of us can just say a few words about the concerns that we have, or that the people in our district have. That would really help me consider the different plans because I don't know enough about what other districts are thinking. KOSSOW: Sorry, Ms. Lui. We actually had that discussion already. LUL Oh, sorry! Oh, I missed it. Sorry. Okay. KOSSOW: You actually came in right in the middle of it actually. So, you got a little piece of it. LUL Oh, okay. Sorry. KOSSOW: Any other discussion before we move on to draft plans? HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Is Ms. Ford still online? KOSSOW: Yes, she is. HUSTACE: Thank you. I guess this question is really for her. As the single person that has submitted a map for the Commission. The question I have is really about her thinking and process for District 1. And where, Ms. Ford, you thought the best line should be and why. FORD: District 1. I based that just on trying to get the numbers even. I actually agree with Mr. Yoshina, that the line should be farther north, to the river, to WaianuenueI forget what the name of the river is all of a sudden. But you guys know what I'm talking about. HUSTACE: The Wailuku River. FORD: So, I think that is good. That would make the numbers up in District 1 a little too positive. But if you can make `em within that plus or minus five percent, it would be good. But that was the only reason I drew the line below the river, south of the river, was trying to get the numbers to be equalized. It's your choice what you want to do about that. HUSTACE: Thank you, Ms. Ford. FORD: You're welcome. 21 KOSSOW: Any other discussion? Ms. Bath. BATH: For purposes of discussion, can we move the line and get the line back to the Wailuku River? Or somewhere there abouts? Just as a starting point. `Cause I did the same thing with my plan. I stuck it down on Waianuenue just for the numbers. But there is a lot of community there and history there. Would the Commissioners be okay with moving the line back to the Wailuku River for now? KOSSOW: Let's hop over to draft plans. Right now, we're talking about Ms. Ford's alternate plan. BATH: Oh, I'm sorry. KOSSOW: And then we can entertain that question. BATH: Oh, understood. I'm sorry. KOSSOW: No worries. Any other questions for Ms. Ford on her plan? (No response.) Thank you, Ms. Ford for being here. Let's go ahead and head over tooh, Ms. Bath? Thank you. BATH: Hi, Brenda? Brenda? FORD: I'm here. Thank you. BATH: Oh, hi. So, thank you for your acknowledgement about what happened to Puna. I'm still seeing that District 5 includes—do you have Pahoa town intact on your plan? FORD: I believe I do. BATH: Yeah, it looks like you do. FORD: That was what the last commission had to do to get these numbers to a reasonable basis. And I totally understand lower Puna does not want to be part of upper Puna. I totally understand that. You have huge geographic areas in current District 5 and not so many people. And so, that's why that lower piece of lower Puna is attached in my plan to District 4. BATH: Okay. Yeah, because District 5 now goes—looking at this practically speaking, District 5 now goes from District 4 all the way to like District 3. FORD: Yeah, Kea`au or something. BATH: Right. And then Volcano Village, in that whole area is stillyou've got Fern Forest in Ka`u as well, I think. And that's kind of 22 FORD: That's based on numbers. In my opinion, the worst district is District 6. Volcano wants to be part of the east side and we haven't been able to do that in, I don't know, twenty years, I think. I forget what the map looks like in 2001. It's a really spread-out district and everybody hates it, including the Council Members. `Cause that district runs about a hundred miles across. So, it's really hard and it's got multiple communities. You've got south Kona, you've got Ka`u, you got part of District 5, I mean, it's a mess. And I hope one of you can do something better. I really do but that district is huge. And you see how, you're looking at my map number 12. That's not a map you should be looking at. You should be at my map number 20. Okay? And even though my map 20 see on the Council District 7, how compact it is? But that district, the census block to the east of Council District 7, there's no way to get there except through Council District 7. So, that's an error on my drawing. That needs to be corrected. The reason that 7 gets spread out across to the center of the island, does that help you at all? BATH: I'm still trying to find plan 20 here. So, on your plan 20, do you have Fern Forest in Ka`u? FORD: I can't move your cursor, so I don't know. BATH: Okay, I found your plan. Try wait. FORD: Okay, you see how it goes up? District 6 goes way up into the central part of the island. That's actually a flaw in my plan. The reason is, I equalized numbers but to the east now. Directly to the east of where the cursor is, that district, you can't get to that section. There's mostly just trails up there by the way. You can't get there without going through District 7. So, it's a flaw. I had the same flaw that I'm chastising you guys about. So, it's really hard to do this. So, all of that up there, needs to go into District 7. BATH: Brenda, Steph again. I'm kind of confused about you taking Fern Acres out of upper Puna `cause that's huge. That's a huge FORD: Would you ask Dennis to move over to Fern Acres? (During this time, Ms. Ford, and Chair Kossow were directing staff to project Fern Acres on the screen.) Fern Acres is right in that area, and I put it into 5. Beth [sic], are we centered into the area that you want to talk about? BATH: Yes. So, where the purple has that little point coming down. If you keep going down, those rectangles there, are to the southeast are Fern Forest. That's a huge part of the community. FORD: It is a huge part of the community, and I did this based on numbers. BATH: Got it. So, that's the same issue that we're having with Waianuenue. FORD: Absolutely. 23 BATH: But I wanted to emphasize to the commission that that's definitely a no-go. FORD: Well, it may be a no-go. If you've designed your own map, you're going to find out that things that all of us agree are no-go's, you're stuck with them. Not necessarily on my map, on your maps. Because you've got to be within those deviations. BATH: Thank you. FORD: You're welcome. KOSSOW: Any further discussion from Commissioners regarding the alternate maps? If not, I would like to move over to our draft plans. (No response.) Okay. Thank you very much. Moving over to draft plans. Mr. Kauka? KAUKA: Thank you. Unfinished business: 2. Draft plans. The Commission may review, discuss, and consider any redistricting plans submitted by Commissioners and work to develop or decide on its Draft Plan. Plans proposed may be viewed at the link provided. haps://circ is/1(' e,10 KOSSOW: Thank you. And thank you staff for helping us with considering and discussing and playing around with these maps there. Perhaps it's easiest if I just go by district to see what everybody's thoughts are on specific maps they want to see. Unless anybody has a proposal of how we should do this flow. I know that Commissioner Hustace, myself, and Commissioner Bath had proposed maps since the last commission meeting. So, perhaps we can start with one of us three and just talk about that map first before we move on to any other discussion. So, Ms. Bath, would you want to BATH: Could you do yours first? KOSSOW: Do mine first? We'll do—Mr. Hustace would you like to do yours first? HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I actually have two maps that were submitted prior to today's meeting. I don't know if both of them are available though. KOSSOW: Okay. I did see one. HUSTACE: That was a concern I had. That yesterday was a holiday so that some of this work wasn't carried over to today's meeting. The one that wasn't available at our last meeting was my draft number 10, but there was a draft number 11 as well that was submitted. KOSSOW: Looks like draft number 10 is available. 24 HUSTACE: So, this one, I took into consideration the testimony on the east side of the island. So, if we want to start over there. In keeping lower Puna together. So, you can see in that purple area, the light purple on the right side of the map, of the screen. However, I did have to carve up HPP a little bit, and that's for the numbers. I think had I included all of HPP, I think it would have been well beyond the deviation we're allowed. Other than that, I think this one,just some incremental changes around the edges. So, that was one of the bigger ones of 4 and 5. Let's see what else I can talk about here. The Hilo one, the boundary of 1 of 2, that's still up for discussion. Happy to make adjustments there, even moving it further north. I think my map 11 shows that too. A lot of the discussion from community members and feedback I've received from those that reside in District 1, and District 9, is that District 1 has a more, you know, it's greater in rural capacity, ag land. The communities closer to Hilo really connect with Hilo. So, I'm trying to find a good balance somewhere there. And it's difficult with the census blocks. I've been trying to find some good breaking points in District 1, for those communities that would call Hilo more of their base. Other than that, let's see. District 9 on its own, given the numbers we have right now, District 9 really didn't have to change that much. So, even if I left the eastern boundary of District 9 more or less the same, I did kind of keep Mealani Road as a carving point, rather than a weird jog in the line at White Road, and then Mealani. I'm trying to keep the homestead there as intact as possible but there still are some that are on the east side of Mealani. The other one, the other testimony we've received over time, and numerous times, is to include on the western side of District 9, those resort nodes and resort areas, have a greater connection to the Waik6loa area. So, all on the coast, I've put those with the communities that they call their base. So, all the Mauna Lani Resort, Waik6loa Beach Resort, they all have a stronger connection to the Waik6loa Village area. There was a pretty clear breaking line just south of Waik6loa Village, so I've used that. There is more openness and expanse where, in the future potentially, there could be a highway that connects where the DKI connects to the upper road, Mamalahoa Highway down to Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway. So, there potentially could be another census block and break in that area, in that vast space there, south of Waik6loa Road. On this one, I do have Council 8 pushing up in to the center of the island, up to PTA. Just kind of that connectivity we were talking about, of roadways. I think I had to push some of these districts down a little bit more here too. I wasn't really a fan of the weird cut out between 7 and 6. So, I pushed 7 and captured a little bit more of 6 on that side. So, I think in that essence, I pushed 6 a little bit further into Hilo if I'm not mistaken on this map. Yeah, I did push a little further. That's kind of an overall layout of that one. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Any discussion? Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I have a question. What part of 6 did you push into District 2? HUSTACE: It looks like, you know, because on the western side of District 6, I gave more of the Kealakekua mauka area and makai area to District 7. So, 6, if I'm not mistaken, I did this one a little while ago now. Six I pushed a little further along Highway 11, towards Mountain View side. YOSHINA: Okay. I'll take a look at that. 25 HUSTACE: Not all the way to Mountain View but, approaching that direction. I just had to pick up some more voters in that area. KOSSOW: I would say, Mr. Hustace, your map looks eerily like one of my maps that I created. If we can scroll down to District 6 and 7, right on the coastline. I know that this is a problem. Now, there's a census block that goes from Ka`awaloa, where the edge of Kealakekua, and it goes all the way in to the 1­16kuli`a Development. Is that the reasoning why 7 runs all the way to Ka`awaloa? HUSTACE: Yeah, that's a census block issue. And if we pursue something like this, I would move to break the census block up. There's no one that lives in that one, so we need to have a clear carving line in that census block. There's even a pinch point,just below the club there. I don't know why KOSSOW: There's actually an old road that runs through there. I'm surprised it didn't split that census block up because it's a public easement. HUSTACE: That's a good question, Chair. KOSSOW: In my map, the only thing different between 7 and 6 here, is that the—one of the connectivity I saw for District 7, was to ensure that Alii Drive is all within that one district. So, if you zoom in right into the Alii Bypass, or Mamalahoa Bypass, that's the fork in the road. It goes down to Napo`opo`o, and then it goes down to Ka`u, and then if you turn left, it goes into Kainaliu. So, Alii Drive is the one that's on the left there. I would like to see Council 7 have all of Alii Drive. So, it continues from that location and goes all the way down to Palani. Which I think, part of the north side Alii Drive, when you go to Kamakahonu, is under Council District 8. At the very least, Kuakini Highway can be a part of Council 8. That's what I think for connectivity for Council 7 on your map. When we're talking about, for example, parks and stuff, one of the issues that was brought up in my community, was that the Old Kona Airport, Kekuaokalani Gym and that complex, has been in District 7, but that line kind of ran through it. And so, a lot of the funding issues, because Council 7 has way more County parks and facilities than Council 8, even though the Civic Center is in Council 8, and Veterans 3. So, that's something to consider, Mr. Hustace. I just wanted to see, is your 1 and 2, is that boundary line on the river or is that Waianuenue? HUSTACE: That one's on Waianuenue but I'm happy to change that one. Just trying to find a good balance there. On this iteration, it's on Waianuenue. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you for proposing the map, Mr. Hustace. Is there any other discussion or any other questions for Mr. Hustace? Ms. Bath. BATH: Are you aware that the town of Kurtistown and the community extends from about North Road to Huina Road? That's the main road really in Kurtistown. So, basically what you've done by using the Highway 11 as a dividing point, which I can 26 understand the reason that you might do that, not knowing the community. The whole area from North Road at the very least, all the way up North Kulani, that whole area in Mountain View, Ihope Road, all of that is Moutain View community. So, you've split the communities of Mountain View and Kurtistown and there's a concern there. I like what you've done with Pahoa though and I think it's really a positive thing that you've kept Fern Forest intact. But I'm wondering if we could something somehow with getting Mountain View and Kurtistown back into Mountain View and Kurtistown. `Cause they've been removed from their towns. I'm thinking Stainback Highway would be the division line, not Highway 11, in that area. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Any other discussion on Mr. Hustace's? Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Just some clarification, what map number is this? KOSSOW: This is draft number 10. YOSHINA: Okay. KOSSOW: I think it says COH Draft 10-JH. YOSHINA: Okay, thank you. I have a comment to make, actually a question here. Commissioner Hustace, if you took some of Meizhu's recommendations for moving the southern district line, northward up the coast to Honoli`i or one of the streams between Hilo and Honoli`i, what impact would that have on the population figures? And then the second question was about your change in you included part of Council District 7, Mountain View area into Council District 2. I'll take a look at those maps on my own but, it seems kind of incongruous for that to happen. I don't know where the line is. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Any other discussion? (No response.) Okay. Let's go ahead and move on to another draft plan. We'll go over to District 5. Ms. Bath? BATH: Are we on the one that's "Submission With Each District Giving"? KOSSOW: That's what it looks like, yes. BATH: Okay, yeah. I guess, any questions from anybody on this? This was for pure discussion and fairness, is the reason that I drew this up this way. I don't think that it's necessarily something that's going to be. I just wanted to open up a conversation. KOSSOW: There was one part of it that I really like the Kona districts. I think those are great. The Council District 3 proposal, I kind of wanted to hear from Mr. Yoshina and then Ms. Ah Nee if she's still on. `Cause I have the same issue with breaking parts of the neighborhoods in Hilo. I did the same thing, breaking up HPP a little bit. Sort of what you have done. I just wanted to hear any comments from those commissioners. 27 YOSHINA: My comment is that, I like the proposal made by Ms. Meizhu, of moving the northern council line for Hilo up the coast. I'm not too certain what that does on the southern side but, her proposal makes sense to me. I don't know what it does to population figures. Beyond that, you know, the only thing that I have to add is that, historically and traditionally, Hilo meant something to the people. To move the council district lines out to Mountain View and places, I really have to look at that. That's my comment. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. HUSTACE: Mr. Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: This is titled, Submission With Each District Giving. Is that correct? KOSSOW: You are correct. HUSTACE: I don't understand how the system's not flagging errors on this one. For instance, outside of Mountain View, there are census blocks that are being encompassed by Council 6. And down in Wao Kele o Puna Forest Reserve, some of the Council Seat 4 are in the middle of nowhere in Council 5. So, this is a tech question, for maybe Mr. Jones as well, and Elections Office. I don't understand why this is not being flagged here. KOSSOW: You're talking about the connectivity check, right? On the integrity. HUSTACE: Yes. KOSSOW: Okay. Ms. Bath. BATH: Because Wao Kele o Puna encompasses those few little subdivisions down in what I'm proposing here in District 4, that would be something we would want to talk about if we did that as a reasonable action that would be defendable. Because in fact, those little subdivisions can access through Wao Kele o Puna and they polarize towards Pahoa Village. And that's the reason they appear like they are in the middle of nowhere. When I did do my check, that was the only thing that didn't check out correctly on this one. It's cited District 5 and District 6 so, I think that that's probably what it is and I'm ready to defend this. Just because of community. Did that give you any clarification? I'm not sure what you're talking about, higher up. HUSTACE: The roadso, looking at the boundary between 4 and 5, down by Kaimu, right? There's that oneso, there's one census block. BATH: Yes, correct. 28 HUSTACE: But there are roads around it, you know. Are there other residents around there? Or do they only live in that census block because the roads jut out, Upper Puna Road, Kaimu-Makena Homestead Road. And the forest reserve, it says that that whole block has 237 residents, in that whole block. So, wouldn't it be justification for you to take whole block as part of 4 then? BATH: We could. However, we have to draw the line somewhere. I think I might have made an error here. Give me a second. HUSTACE: The census blocks, they're only accurate to a sense because there are people that live just outside of that block too. So, you might be forgetting the people that live down the road from that block. BATH: Yeah, I'm definitely not forgetting those people. Wao Kele o Puna could be put into District 4, I don't have a problem with that. That's just going to raise the numbers a little bit more. The main thing is whatever we need to do to get lower Puna into lower Puna. I think that this would definitely be reasonable and justifiable without any question, especially because of the lava flow and everything that's coming down there. HUSTACE: Then the other location I had questions about was at the boundary of 5 and 6, right outside of Mountain View. This may have fight as well. BATH: Okay. So, that's Mauna Loa Estates. Okay, I see what you're saying there. Yeah, those are just some communities that—if s the way they did the census block. HUSTACE: Right. So, should we take that whole block around it then? Because that's part of that community, right? BATH: Right, right, yeah. So, what are you suggesting? Taking it to Stainback Highway or ? HUSTACE: Well, this is a difficult one I've had problems with too because if you take Chair, is it possible to make some edits here, live on the map? KOSSOW: Are we capable of doing that? (Chair Kossow received a response away from the microphone.) Oh, that's cool. Okay. HUSTACE: If we could unlock those groups there. Then if you zoom in, you can see like the roadways go beyond those census blocks. So, I'm sure people live down the road from the small blocks that have been carved out. BATH: I think I tried doing that, and they way that it's done, the census blocks make it challenging. HUSTACE: So, you have to unlock those. On the lower panel 29 BATH: Yeah, I've got`em unlocked. HUSTACE: I'm sorry, Commissioner Bath, for our staff that's managing the map up on the screen. BATH: Oh, I'm sorry. (Meeting paused while staff managed the map projected onto the screen.) KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace, what was your request, is to take that whole census block and move it to 6? HUSTACE: Sorry. Thanks, Chair. The request was to make that large block that encompasses those small communities along Komo Street, that is that larger blue one, and throw it into Council 5, along with the ones I think you just turned into 6. KOSSOW: And then, you wanted the one that was a little bit more up, yeah? HUSTACE: Sorry, those were supposed to all be in 5. KOSSOW: Oh, 5. Yeah, yeah. So, that whole census block goes to 5. (Chair Kossow and Vice Chair Hustace gave directions to staff managing the projected map) BATH: Chair, that looks much better. I don't know the reason that I didn't do that. And then, if you go down towards `Ainaloa, if you go east to the right, and you have `Ainaloa Subdivision, and there's that one census block that has 13 people. That one was supposed to go into 4. HUSTACE: Before we move to the east, if you could switch that large blue census block. The number is, I probably shouldn't give you the number. It might confuse you. But it has 598 yeah, if you could switch that to Council 5. And then there's a little blue one, yeah that one needs to go too. Commissioner Bath, could you talk to us about, you said there was another one t000h, oh, so the other proposal was, look at Ms. Bath's map here. BATH: Yeah. So, if you go to the very east where—just a minute here. HUSTACE: Well, let's put Wao Kele o Puna Forest Reserve in Seat 4, if you don't mind. BATH: That's exactly right. That's exactly correct. HUSTACE: Please, yes. The Forest Reserve in Seat 4. BATH: `Cause the folks in 5 could still access it from their district so I don't think 30 HUSTACE: Unfortunately, there's a techincal issue with that. I've had many problems too. Sometimes when you select the forest reserve, it also takes parts that are in the Park for some reason. Just depends on what level macro zoom you're in on the map. KOSSOW: Unfortunately, you have to zoom in all the way, and then that's how you can get the split. HUSTACE: Yeah. There's something wrong with that. Those census blocks are like linked together. (Vice Chair Hustace gave directions to staff managing the map) Great. Then there's another one just above Pahoa town. BATH: Oh, yeah. It's a little tiny. I see that. HUSTACE: Yeah. There's one like just—so, if you zoom in Cori, towards Pahoa, there's a small little one that has zero population. Yeah. (Chair Kossow and Vice Chair Hustace continued to give directions to staff managing the map projected onto the screen.) Ms. Bath, you mentioned the one just north there too, that had 13 in it. Right off of Kea`au Road. BATH: I just did an integrity check and all of them check out without correction. Hold on, let me get back there. So, if you go to the east of where 5 and 4 meet— HUSTACE: eetHUSTACE: Did you want to throw in that one green block first, right along the highway there? BATH: Yeah, I think it had 13 folks in it. HUSTACE: Yeah. So, Cori, if you could that one in 4 as well. Just south a little bit. Sorry. (Vice Chair Hustace gave further direction to staff managing the map) And then, Commissioner Bath, if you could talk to us about the four or five census blocks that push over from HPP into Orchidland. BATH: Yeah. I'm just doing a check here. Just a minute. Okay. Yeah so, I want to disclose, I love HPP, I've spent a lot of time down there, however, with the population density and the increased everyday new driveways, and homes, are being built down there, until we were to get another district, we're going to need to do something. And Corp Counsel mentioned today that the school districts are actually broken up in HPP, which I wasn't aware of. I'm assuming that's somewhere around Maku`u or not, but I'd have to check that. It's reasonable to split it up. The other thing is with the Puna Mauka, the redundancy of another road going in there, which is definitely on the books, that road would connect actually, from HPP into District 3 anyway. So, there would be some connectivity between the two districts, `cause that's going to be huge. I put Kaloli Point in there, into District 3, because that's a community within itself in HPP. They have their own cert teams. It's really hard for me to do this but it had to be done. So, I yield. If you have any questions, I can try to help. I was just looking at the numbers. 31 HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: The question I had was actually more specific on the four or five census blocks just east of the Kea`au-Pahoa Road. So, Highway 130, you see where the red cuts into the green? BATH: Yeah. So, that's actually HPP. Those four census blocks are part of HPP. HUSTACE: Okay. Good to know. They don't cut any further back into Orchidland, it really cuts at that line at Pohaku Circle? BATH: Correct, from what I understand. HUSTACE: Chair, could I ask another question? KOSSOW: Yeah. Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Could I gage the tempature of our Commissioners for Council's 4 and 5 on this iteration here? And get their feedback on how does this feel overall. You don't have to go into too much detail but, if you looked at how 4 and 5 are settled here, what does that, how does that make you feel? What would your community members say about something like this? Thank you. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I'm okay with that, the corrections. Makes sense. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Any other Commissioners? Ms. Yadao. YADAO: I like it. I think it looks good. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Yadao. Any other Commissioners? BATH: I can definitely live this with the corrections, yeah. I think that the community would think it was reasonable. KOSSOW: Alright. Is there any other discussion regarding Ms. Bath's proposed map? (No response.) Okay. Mr. Hustace, you said you had one more map, correct? Is that plan 11? HUSTACE: That's correct. 32 KOSSOW: Okay. If we can pull up Mr. Hustace's plan 11 and then I have also, a plan called BK12 or BK Draft 12 or something like that. Mr. Hustace, what was your plan name? HUSTACE: It should read Draft 11. But I don't know ifthat's why I was curious, I don't think it made the transition from Mr. Jones to our Elections Office. KOSSOW: Try and go to recent plans. No. (Meeting paused while staff tried to pull up Vice Chair Hustace's Draft 11.) Sorry, Mr. Hustace, we didn't get plan 11 in here yet. I guess if his didn't make it through, I don't think mine made it through either but, it's called BK Draft 12. Okay. Well, Mr. Hustace, why don't you go ahead and maybe just discuss what the plan is, that you had. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I'll just pull it up, one second here. It might be hard to visualize it but, it was something I revisited back with my third, I think it was my third, draft map. I'd actually be curious to hear from Commissioner Akamu about this. In regards to splitting Seat 6. And you know, that large geographic district that is challenging for, as we hear, for our contituents, all the way to elected officials. So, I tried to attempt something else. Kind of a different iteration of what was my draft 3, in splitting the large southern district in half. I know this pushes a little bit further into Hilo and there are some population challenges there. So, it's hard to kind of show it to you here but, that was kind of part of it. So, that was on the southern half of the island. On the northern side of the island, I was trying to take into consideration the input and feedback from community members, and our discussions about what was Council Seat 1, and 2, and that kind of boundary and pushing it further north. And trying to include as many of those communities along the Hamakua Coast that have a great affiliation for the Hilo community and where they kind of mostly commute from. If I'm not mistaken, my boundary was around in between Pa`auilo and Laupahoehoe. So, that's where I kind of drew that boundary. That means it pushed Council Seat—the numbers are the numbers, but it pushed that, what was 1, further up towards North Kohala, and incorporated the core of Waimea, it excluded Waik6loa Village. So, it did do a lot of shifting. It's really hard to kind of talk to you through it here. But that was kind of the impetus there. Revisting that idea of splitting the large geographic boundaries for Council Seat 6 as it stands. And trying to find a place of like a proper geographic boundary up on Hamakua where it could be divided and those people commute and have a connection to the Hilo community. Thank you, Chair. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace, for the visual. And then just briefly on mine, it looks kind of like your draft 10, and also I made some considerations with Ms. Bath's. I think the only exception is I didn't know that portion was HPP, that was right against Orchidland. So, I'll have to revisit that. Because we moved HPP a little bit over, there was a way to get the Wailuku River at the boundary line between Council 1 and Council 2. The only concern I had, and I wish I will be able to show this to you, Mr. Hustace, but Pu`u Kapu would be the boundary line between Council 1 and Council 9. So, I know that might be a little bit more of an issue. Acutally, that's pretty similar to what I have, but yeah. 33 HUSTACE: Chair,just a question on that. KOSSOW: Yes. HUSTACE: Do you know which road? You probably have the map right in front of you on your own computer. What was the boundary line you had on the Pu`u Kapu area? The homestead. KOSSOW: I tried to use Mana Road as they boundary line, on the mauka side towards Mauna Kea. BATH: Excuse me Chair, what map are we viewing right now? KOSSOW: We weren't able to get the maps up here so, we're kind of just talking about our ideal map. BATH: Oh, okay. KOSSOW: Then I also used the census block of Mokuola Drive [sic] on the left-hand side. And that kind of cuts right into the watershed. HUSTACE: Chair, if you don't mind. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: The Mokuloa, I've looked at that one. I think Ms. Ford had an iteration on one of her maps, or a couple of maps, used that Mokuloa. So, in the Waimea area, on the boundary between 9 and 1. That is Mokuloa Subdivision, was one of those ones that switched to Council 1 as in some iterations and options. It might be possible to use that stream though, right next to it there, as another possible boundary. The only concern I've had, I've heard from the residents in Waimea that, and this is an issue with Mana Road because there are homesteaders on both sides of Mana Road. So, you'd be kind of splitting the homestead and kind of diluting that voice. I have some concerns about that and I have been struggling where to put that line as well. I don't know where the best place is in that sense. But Mana Road is a good boundary line but it does divide that community. KOSSOW: Yeah, I was worried about that as well. I haven't heard anybody from Pu`u Kapu. Have you? HUSTACE: Not yet really. But from Waimea residents, that was a concern about splitting up Pu`u Kapu and the homestead there. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Part of my other draft that I probably would have to revisit is, I split Ka`upulehu in half. To give you a gage of where that is, it's Four 34 Seasons area, located north of the airport, about 15 minutes out heading north. So, I kind of split one part of Kuki`o down into Council 8, and Council 9 would have more of the Four Seasons and Kuki`o Phase 3 into that district. Also, I considered Pu`u Wa`awa`a, I believe this is Pu`u Wa`awa`a and Pu`u Anahulu into Council 9. Because I think they share the same values as far as ranching and agriculture, versus Council 8 which is mostly residential. Other than that, that was the summary of my map. Is there any other discussions? Or do we want to look at any other maps? HUSTACE: Chair,just a question on that. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you. I wish we had like a whiteboard, I could draw this up on all this stuff but I look forward to seeing the maps as well. The Pu`u Wa`awa`a, Pu`u Anahulu area, there's some grotesque census blocks that really span up into Hualalai basically. So, how did you manage those when you're putting Pu`u Wa`awa`a, Pu`u Anahulu into seat 9? KOSSOW: So, the backside of Hualalai, into Ahua`umi, that's all—would be part of Council 9. And then after considering that, I considered connectivity to Pohakuloa. And so, at that part of Pohakuloa is also in Council 9. Actually, kind of similar to that map right there. That census block is pretty ridiculous but it just goes into the backside which is all primarily ranch land. (Pause) Oh you got it! Perfect. So, Mr. Hustace, this is your map here, Draft 11. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Jones may have been listening in. Going back to what you were saying, did you want to revisit this, Chair? KOSSOW: Sorry, Mr. Hustace, what was your question? HUSTACE: Now that we have the visuals, did you want to use these as a template here and talk about these? KOSSOW: Yes. Yes, please. HUSTACE: Okay. As I've mentioned before, I'd love to hear from Commissioner Akamu about the split of the southern half, if that's okay. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. AKAMU: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: This is perhaps the most difficult map, so I hope we don't select this one as the one to which we start our discussions and our moving things around it. I understand why 35 this is done. But to approach with the thought of, let's split up the southern district, is going to cause a lot of problems among the people of the southern district. Especially when you're talking about socio-economically and keeping these communities together. I think that's really important. Also, interestingly, talking to the people of Ka`u, regardless of how the lines are drawn, it's not going to change the people's feelings and their connections to the place. And the boundaries that they recognize traditionally in these areas. So, I mean if this is the map that we do decide to use as our anchor, with which we start, I think there will be a lot of changes and deviations. I do think as much as possible, trying to communities out near Glenwood, Fern Forest, etcetera, more connected to the Puna, Kea`au, and Hilo area. That's what I've heard from people in that community and they're definitely much more connected. They probably never drive down to Pahala. Similarly,people in the Ocean View community,probably never get across to Pahala. So, it is a big huge district but, essentially the community of the south, I believe, would like to stay together as a community of the south. Our State Representatives are already split similarly. It does provide some challenges when the communities of Pahala and Na`alehu are split. In particular, because of the plantation connection, as well as the connection using the Old Cane Haul Road at the top that connects both of those communities. Also, because of a lot of the PONC projects that are in the lower portions of Ka`u, like at Keolaka`a, Kaunamano, Waikapuna. It would be definitely easier to keep it all under the purview of one council member, rather than splitting them apart. It has been a big desire of the Ka`u community to preserve this longest stretch of undeveloped coastline in Hawaii. And so, that's also important in terms of preservation efforts and working with our council members for PONC funding, etcetera. But otherwise, whatever the map is, I think we'll have a lot more further discussions about how to tweak it. I think what's most important is whatever our draft map becomes, we do have to work on getting hard copies out to the communities. Similar to what Commissioner Bath had shared about the communities of Puna, the communities out here in Ka`u need to be able to go to the public library, or the post office, or somewhere nearby and pick up hard copies of these items. So, whatever we can do to make sure that we do make those drafts available and gather as much community input at that point, will be really important. But I thank, Commissioner Hustace. I've looked at looked at all of your different maps and you've definitely put a lot of thought into it. There are also some really interesting ideas for some of the northern parts of the islands that I've seen incorporated. But, hopefully we'll find a nice happy medium between all of the districts. And that's why I'm here, is just to listen, to put in the time, so that we can come to the best for our districts, as well as for our island. So, thank you. I yield. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Akamu. Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Commissioner Akamu. I value your input and guidance here. It's good to know those sentiments and feelings. Yeah, these are just, you know, proposed ideas of seeing how it's possible to, with such a large geographical district, to give those areas equal representation. But, I value your guidance. Thank you. 36 And Chair, if you don't mind, I could talk a little bit more about this one, if you'd like to have me. KOSSOW: Go ahead, Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: So, I wanted to talk about Council's 1 and 2, and trying to talk about I had some difficulty finding where a good boundary line would be here, along Hamakua. So, in this instance, I took just east of Pa`auilo, and that became more of the Hilo-based side of the Hamakua District. I've heard conversations about south Laupahoehoe. I couldn't really find a good census line in there, so I'd have to go back and look again, and do another iteration. But, that's some of the communities members have talked about Laupahoehoe and south Laupahoehoe as the area that would be more connected to the Hilo side. That's one possibility, but this one is more about east of Pa`auilo and then that becomes kind of the north Hawaii district there. From Pa`auilo all the way to the core of Waimea and then up to Haw! and Kapa`au. Unfortunately, there could be some potential little changes here in this area. I know it puts a lot of the area, people that connect with Waimea, along Kawaihae Road, in a separate district. Some of them may have more of a coastal connection, and so I connected with the Waikoloa Village area, all the way down to resort hubs, and all the way down to north Kona and the airport. So, some of this boundary is similar to the House Seat, to an extent. Particularly with Kaloko Drive and that area. I'm trying to follow some of those House Seat lines as well. Really, Council Seat 8, what I have here is really, really carved into a very urban core of the Kona area, Kailua-Kona area. Unfortunately, I had to take kind of the upper portions, and this could switch based upon some of the numbers. I have to look at them again. It could be possible to take the Holualoa area and put that into the Council 8 as well. But they are in kind of this western side of the southern half. Just a possibility. Just wanted to put that out there, some ideas. Thank you, Chair. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Is there any discussion on Mr. Hustace's draft 11 here? Mr. Yoshina. Thank you. YOSHINA: I just want to make sure that that map is going to be put on our inventory here, `cause I don't see it here. KOSSOW: I think it might have gone on right now so you probably have to refresh it. YOSHINA: Oh, okay. Thank you. KOSSOW: But yes, it will be on there. Any other discussion? LUL Yes, I have a comment. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I feel like this one goes under the category of a more radical change. And again, I'm not too sure how much of change people are ready for. I know for District 1, I wanted to 37 move it up farther, to have the southern boundary father north, but this goes much too far. There's a community of interest along those agricultural communities that many camps along there, from Pa`auilo down much further. So,yeah, I think these changes are probably too drastic. Just wanted to say that I felt like we didn't discuss it today but, there was some support in the community from the testimony, for Commissioner Lopez's plan. And, I know for me, in Council 1, he does move it up farther, the District 1 boundary, he does move it up farther south than both Waianuenue and the Wailuku River, which is good. Not as far as Honoli`i, which was my suggestion, but he does get it up that far. So, I don't know, I guess in some ways I would be in favor of using—his plan might be one that we look at as a basis. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you. Any other discussion? Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I would second that suggestion that we look at Mr. Lopez's map as well. KOSSOW: Alright. I'm going to call for a five-minute recess, and then we'll come back and we'll look at Mr. oh we have one more map to look at, and then Mr. Lopez's. And we'll hop back into there. So, five-minute recess and we'll get back at 12:13. Thank you. (Five-minute recess.) KOSSOW: Alright, calling the meeting back to order. We're going to go over to—oh yeah, we'll do my draft and then we'll look at Mr. Lopez's draft. I know there was some public testimony regarding that and some commissioners wanted to look into that as well. Alright so, this was one of my draft plans and out of consideration for Wailuku River. So, if we can scroll down into between District 1 and District 2. I wanted to ensure that we could get Wailuku River in Council District 2 as the boundary line. So, that's what shows here. This one is "BK Draft 12". Now, in order for me to do this, I had to make some changes around Council 4 and 5. So, if we can scroll down into there. I tried to do something similar to Ms. Bath's proposed plan. I'm not too excited about that, what it is currently. And then also considering that part of HPP that you just pointed out earlier. It's something I'll have to consider as well. If you scroll down a little bit more, I did put lower Puna into one whole district so, that allows that. Now I didn't think about Volcano. And I know Commissioner Hustace brought this up, but splitting one side as Wao Kele o Puna and the other side should be District 6 really, for the Volcano portion. If you go over to, if you can scroll up just a little bit more. I did see the need to put Kurtistown and the upper part of Puna all into one district. I kind of followed Commissioner Bath's plan. If you scroll in to towards Volcano, I wanted to make sure that a little bit towards the boundary between District 6 and District 5 in the Volcano areaI wanted to make sure that we weren't splitting up too much of the community within this area. So, that's where I could find like the point, and looking through Google Maps I didn't really see any homes within that area. But I'm sure there is, because I think that's a roadway. Go ahead and zoom out and head over to the other side of District 6 and 7. Zoom in towards Kealakekua Bay. So, this is similar to James, Mr. Hustace. That one census block goes all the way into Ka`awaloa, and then there's like a little sliver, and then it goes all the way up to 1­16kuli`a. So, we're just going to have to live with that. That part would be in 38 Council 7. I tried to get all of Alii Drive into Council 7. So, it goes right against the roadway there, and then you can follow it all the way to town, Kona proper. And then, so when you get into there, Kamakahonu, which is the King Kamehameha Resort area, would be in Council 7. And then if you scroll down towards Kuakini Highway, right in the center there (Chair Kossow gave further directions to staff managing his projected draft.) So, I followed Kuakini Highway at the split portion of town. Then it cuts up through Hualalai Road and then, part of Hualalai Road, there's an old river that runs through there. So, Hualalai Road, then it goes into the river, and it goes straight up towards the mauka side. That's what you see in that boundary line there. Then, let's go into Council District 9. James, Mr. Hustace, this is what I was talking about with Pu`u Anahulu. I know it looks a little like a cloud. But, the Pu`u Anahulu kind of is all in one census block. So, I wanted to ensure that at least that area could be part of District 9. And then it also includes part of Pohakuloa, which is similar to what Ms. Ford had in her plans as well. Then, if you scroll all the way to 1 and 9, it's going to be up in Hamakua. And then, I ran into the same thing with Ms. Bath, in her map, and I used the Mana Road. It runs through Pu`u Kapu and I don't remember what that road is in that area. But to summarize, that would be that map. Any questions? HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you. Thank you for your submission here. While we were on our break here, I was kind of tinkering with kind of the Hilo boundary between 1 and 2. It's not particular with your map, Chair. It's just the conversation we've been having if you don't mind. Shifting Council 2 further north, like even up to Honoli`i, added a great deal of representation. I was trying to take into consideration Commissioner Bath's ideas. If I didn't change what we had in her iteration, it gave Seat 2 way too many to give any other seat adjacent to it. I'm just kind of struggling in that area right now. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. It is a difficult decision to sort of make. I know that if we moved Council 2 into Honoli`i, I believe you would have to move Council 1 a little bit more into Council 9. And then, Council 9 would have to move a little bit more into Council 8. I think there was, if I remember, one of your draft plans actually kind of did that. Where the end product was that it went into the Palisades area from North Kona. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: What is a reasonable concession Council Seat 4 needs to make. If you move Seat 4 further up into Hamakua, in the Honoli`i area, what can you remove from it to give to Seat 3? `Cause Seat 3 is the only one that's adjacent to it. It can only connect to Seat 3 on its southern half. This can be a caution for the other commissioners too, from Seat's 2 and 3. What would you give away to Seat 3? You know, we're talking about moving up to Honoli`i, and having that boundary for Council Seat 2. What can you give away 39 logically? It's gaining a lot of people when you move up north into those areas. So, you're going to have to go quite a bit to 3, and then 3 gains a lot. If we're set in our ways about Seat 4 and 5, then we're at an impasse. I can't seem to see where those boundaries are then. LUL Commissioner Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui? Or I'm sorry, Mr. Hustace, do you yield? HUSTACE: Yes. Thank you, Chair. KOSSOW: Thank you. Ms. Lui? LUL Well, I was thinking too that Hilo, right now, really is in three different districts. It would be nice to have it in two. And there's no neat boundary in Hilo that makes a lot of sense so, I could see Council 2 giving up a part of Hilo without too much pain. But, then of course, you've got 3, which is already large. Also,just to say, that when I tried to tinker with the Honoli`i boundary then, of course, I had to go into Waimea more. I took almost all of Waimea, and then, of course, that messed up District 9. So, I got kind of stuck there, I have to say. So yeah, in a way that's kind of why I'm looking at Commissioner Lopez's map. Which goes up further than Wailuku, as I said, but doesn't go as far as Honoli`i. But then it means, there's less changes that need to be made on the northern boundary. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Do you yield? LUL Yeah, I yield. KOSSOW: I'm going to pass it over to Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I just want to say that it's painful for everybody, right? Not just 2 or 3, or 1 and 2. I'd just like to throw that in. There is another comment that I made earlier in earlier meetings but, Pohakuloa being in District 9, we should consider the fact that the command and control of the military is in District either 2 or 3. So, to put Pohakuloa in 9, and there's not much population there, so you should either connect it to 2 or 3. It's just a comment. I'd like to say that District 2 is not up for grabs. It has a large population, and historically and traditionally, it is a community. So, we should consider all of that as we try to subdivide. I think that if there was some way to just sit down and massage all of these different plans, we'd come up with something. Because all of the comments I heard, made a lot of sense. We just have to—like a good bakery, you know, kind of knead it together. I'm sure we can come up with something. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Any other discussion? Ms. Bath. 40 BATH: One thing that I like about your plan that I didn't include, is you have those three or four census blocks along Stainback Highway in Council 5. That's a lot cleaner. So, thank you for that. That looks good. KOSSOW: It makes it straight too. BATH: Yeah, yeah. And Stainback might be used as a redundancy group, and so that, yeah. Good job. I yield. KOSSOW: Any other discussion? (No response.) Okay. Some of the commissioners wanted to discuss Mr. Lopez's. If you want to head over to there. Ms. Lui? LUL Well, I didn't necessarily want to discuss it again. I'm just thinking that, are we down to the point where we're going to choose a couple to kind of work off of? I yield. KOSSOW: Well, there was multiple people that requested to see it again. So, I'm just going to have it open, and then from there we can discuss what we want to do for the draft plans and go from there. (At this time, Chair Kossow gave directions to staff managing the map projected onto the screen.) Sorry, I'm just looking at refreshing my memory here about where his boundary lines were. But I think I got a little bit of a gist of it. Does anybody have any comments that they would like to make to Mr. Lopez's plan here? I know there was a few over the comments that we made earlier, but is there any other discussion? HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I don't want to dive too much into this without Mr. Lopez here. That's the only concern I have. There are a couple of things that stand out for me, that there aren't some clear boundaries between—like if you're looking, what you have up on the screen right now, at the Wailuku area, some of the blocks on the other side of the Wailuku River have gone into it. So, what makes you say we should take this one versus that one? Are we just saying like that touch Wailuku River or are we using some boundary there? `Cause there's one that's not and then there's some that are. In that particular area, I just had some questions about. Also, when we're talking about connectivity. If you go up to North Hawaii, outside of Kapa`au, that large block group there. You know, Ms. Ford was on the call. We talked about having to go through different districts to get someplace. So, if you're in Honoka`a, in District 1, and you want to go up to other parts of District 1, you'd have to cross out to District 9, through Waimea town to get to Kapa`au. And Kapa`au is even split away from its majority parts in this area. So, that's a question I had about that. And then also in, at the southside of District 9, where it touches District 8, same case here. You would be traveling along the Belt Road. You would cross through District 8 to get to areas mauka of Kona in District 9. So, if you look a little bit south on the map there, you can see that you go along the upper road, Highway 11, you travel 41 through 8 to get back down to 9. I don't know if those residents affiliate themselves more with Kona, or more with Waimea. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace, do you yield? HUSTACE: Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you. Ms. Lui. LUL Just in terms of the District 1 boundary, his map does speak to the concern of residents from Pi`ihonua who said that there was a community that goes across the Wailuku River and that they didn't want that split up. There's some camps that they wanted to keep together there. And also, relating to the church on the other side. So, I think that that boundary does take that into account. It's not so much of a road or something like that, it's more a community boundary. I would prefer a few of those census blocks to move up that are on the shoreline but anyway, that's the explanation for that part of your question. I agree with you on District 9. Especially that I don't really agree with the way that that's drawn. But I believe there was one other comment from somebody from District 4 or 5. Maybe you remember, Ms. Bath, who liked his map for the boundaries for District 4 and 5. Anyway, I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Lui. Ms. Bath. BATH: No offense, Mr. Lopez, but this map for Puna is a mess. It chops up upper Puna, puts Fern Forest into Ka`u. It takes District 5 and puts it out into the lava field, out to Kapoho. Which is defintely lower Puna, and yeah. I'm not sure about this one. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you. So, going into some of the other maps, we should probably consider the Council 1, `cause there's some really good positive things from that. Comments that we received, and some Commissioners agree with that. So, when we create our maps, maybe we can come back to this. I do agree, Council 9 goes into a part of Kona that might not associate themselves with parts of Waimea or North Kohala. But it does run into State Rep. 7, which is the current district. It looks similar to that. Any other discussions? (No response.) Okay, we'll go ahead and move on. I just want to check on everybody's timing. Is everybody able to stay within the next hour? By 1 o'clock? Okay. Ms. Lui. LUL I'm running out of juice because I got out of my appointment and I'm sitting at Starbucks. So, I'm not plugged in. If I disappear, that's why. YOSHINA: So, I'm good. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. So, it'd be two members down by 1. Where does that leave us? Four commissioners? (Meeting logistics discussion away from the microphone.) We'll go ahead and move on to maybe using some of our draft plans that we've already created and then kind of discussing how we want to move going back and forth. Similar 42 to what we did to Ms. Bath's plan. Do we want to do a blank slate? Or should we take a draft? Any approach is good with me. You want to do my draft? (Response away from the microphone.) Okay. We'll go back to my draft. And we can change this around, right? Okay. So, I guess whoever wants to go first in making some changes on it. (No response.) Okay, the first one was between Council 4 and 5, right next to HPP. Ms. Bath, you suggested that one part of HPP, which is to the left there, where it's in Council 5, that should be in the HPP portion, correct? So, I think that's six census blocks. (Commissioner Bath responded away from the microphone.) Four? Okay. That's 5 to 4, and then, I believe your map also included a portion of HPP, the Hilo side of HPP into 4, correct? BATH: That would be just to adjust numbers. Yeah. KOSSOW: Okay. LUL I'm sorry. Is this BK Draft Plan 2? KOSSOW: What draft is this? Plan 12. BATH: Oh, hold on. I'm in the wrong plan. LUL I'm trying to pull it up on my other thing so that I can mess with it, and I can't get it. Has it not been put up yet on the KOSSOW: It's the one that's currently up on the screen right now. Although, it says Kawena's 8 Plan, which is weird. LUL Okay, wait a minute. That's 10/27. No. I was trying to open it separately, sorry. My other screen. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: It seems that there's some technical issue because when I try to load a new map, it's keeping the name of the previous map up in the yellow bar at the top. So, I've tried to load your map up on my computer and it still shows the previous map that I had. So, for some reason it's doing that. KOSSOW: Oh, interesting. Ms. Bath, one of the considerations I wanted to see was, in your map you kind of went down HPP towards the road. I think that's probably a better balance than what I have, where it just goes straight down the road. Just take it very increment BATH: Just taking a portion of it? 43 KOSSOW: Correct, correct. BATH: That's what I did. Just try to minimize. KOSSOW: Yeah. I agree with that. Even though part of Council 3 would be going all the way down to the ocean, at least a portion of it would be in Council District 4. BATH: So, we're talking about—I'm having a brain moment—the Point. Kaloli Point is what I had. KOSSOW: Kaloli, yes. Yes. BATH: So, you're suggesting putting Kaloli into District 3? KOSSOW: Correct. BATH: So, in other words, utilizing my map for the change? KOSSOW: Correct. BATH: Okay. Do you have that in your head? KOSSOW: Kind of. Well, we can change it right now. BATH: Okay. (Chair Kossow and Commissioner Bath gave directions to staff managing the projected map.) And then, you're suggesting that we would adjust the numbers by adding some of those census blocks that are closer to 130. KOSSOW: Correct. BATH: Okay. KOSSOW: If you go back to the 130 road, a few of those census blocks can go into Council District 4, from the top there, to make the deviation correct. Okay, we're in the deviation now. BATH: Chair, I think I have the wrong map up, because my numbers are showing that 5 is in deficit, and 4 is above. I think I might be dealing with that technical issue. KOSSOW: Okay. Is that the same map? BATH: I'm not sure. KOSSOW: Did anybody else have any comments on changing this map up? (No response.) Could you scroll to Council 5 and 6, towards Volcano? I wanted to make sure 44 that was the same as Ms. Bath's. Yeah, okay, that is. And then Ms. Lui, the Honoli`i possible deviation that you were considering, do you know the estimated amount it would be? Of a deviation that would be? I don't know if the question came up earlier. LUL Well, when I did it on the thing that I sent, I had also changed some things around up in the Waimea area. So, therefore the deviation was fine. But like I say, it messed up District 9, and probably 2. So, yeah, I didn't really do the whole map which I should have done. But I'm finding this difficult to do, if when I can't get the map up separately on my own screen. It's kind of hard to follow. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I'm looking at the numbers for Ka`u, and it seems like it's in deficit with what I see. Am I looking at the wrong map? KOSSOW: Yes. It is in deficit. BATH: At like, over a thousand? Is that right? KOSSOW: That's correct. BATH: Okay. LUL Five (5) is in deficit too. BATH: Yeah, I see that. KOSSOW: So, Council 6 would have to go a little bit more north into Kona to alleviate some of the pressure from going into Council 5. What was the other one that was in deficit? Council 5. Thank you. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: So, I've taken the consideration of fellow commissioners, and Commissioner Lui, about Honoli`i. So, using your map as a template, and adding all the census blocks up to Honoli`i Stream into Council 2, that puts Council 2 at seventeen percent over. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. HUSTACE: So, as I posed before, what parts of then Council 2, do we give to Council 3? Giving the fact that Council 3, in this iteration, is already at six hundred over, about three percent. Thank you. 45 YOSHINA: So, Mr. Hustace, what if you move that northern boundary of District 2 from Honoli`i southward to let's say, another river or another gulch south of Honoli`i? I don't have a map here, I'm just out of the system. HUSTACE: Thank you, Commissioner Yoshina. I'm just looking at it now. I'm trying to see if there's another clear dividing line. `Cause you're at Honoli`i, the next is Wainaku and then you're at Wailuku basically. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Well, there was the road that Commissioner Lopez used. Where is it here? Which was another possibility. I'm having trouble finding it. Sorry. HUSTACE: Chair, I think that's `Ohai Street and `Amauulu. LUL `Amauulu. Yeah, that's right. KOSSOW: I think the problem too, is the census blocks are very big, and they're very mauka-makai. I don't know if it would be possible to get it up to Honoli`i. However, there is Kaiwiki Stream, might be a possibility, but I think the census block above it, will make it go around it. If that makes any sense. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: That's exactly a problem that I'm having. So, when I draw up to `Amauulu Road, I have to have a weird jog in the line at—what is this name of the street here Kanoa Street. Right off of the Mamalahoa Highway, then it kind of jogs into `Ohai and `Amauulu. However, when you go more mauka, up into the upper reaches of `Amauulu, there's a census block that touches `Amauulu all the way to Honoli`i. It kind of wraps around Wainaku from the more mauka portions. So, that's a problem. Thank you. YOSHINA: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I don't have my map here so, I can take a look at that but between now and our next meeting. KOSSOW: Okay. YOSHINA: Okay. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Ms. Lui? 46 LUL Just one comment before I leave because my battery is just gone. I think that for some of us in more rural areas, the connectivity thing, many times we only have one way in and out to the Belt Road. And so, to get to the next group over, even though we're very close as a gulch or something, that really isn't a big concern in terms of the sense of community being together. So, anyway, I'm sorry my battery is gone so I'll see you all on the 23rd and I'll look for instructions as to what to do between now and then. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. BATH: Chair, I accidentally shut down. Can you thank everybody? I've got to Kele on too. KOSSOW: Will do. Thank you, Ms. Bath. Any other deviations we wish to see on this Draft 12? HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I've been tinkering here as we're talking and trying to add these blocks in quickly to give you an idea of the deviation. When we push Council 2 to Honoli`i, we're about 17 over. When we're about in the `Amauulu, in this current iteration,just kind of stretching it up a little bit north past Wailuku River, we're now over seven percent. So, it's not, you know, it's ten percent less but, you know, 1,600 people have been added when we push into the communities on the other side of Wailuku. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. I guess the other issue to it is as we move, and we've reiterated the question, if we slowly move it into Council District 2, up into a little bit more north, what do we have to move from Council District 3? It might jeopardize the other council districts in Puna. So, I guess I'm having a little bit of a struggle trying to change the maps around here on that. Do we have any other discussion? (No response.) KAUKA: Chair, this is Dennis. KOSSOW: Mr. Kauka. KAUKA: Thanks. Just as a form of guidance for the commissioners to consider as we move forward, and the Elections staff and Corp Counsel can help guide on what our capacities are on the technical side and just in the parliamentary sense. But being that it seems we've made progress today on looking at one map, the Commission may want to consider a motion to adopt this as its draft plan. Postpone that to the next meeting, to continue working on it. And that way, we have one iteration of a plan that we seem to be gathering around to make adjustments at the next meeting with. To the extent that we can preserve this, I think, on the system. 47 KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka, for the clarification. So, I think I would like to see maybe two maps. So, that way we can just actively change out the boundary lines and we can go forward with working with it in the next commission meeting. It will probably take the majority of the time. I guess I'm looking for a motion, whether or not we want to adopt this one, and possibly another one. And we'll call it adopting a working plan. (No response.) Okay. I guess we'll just hold off for now for moving this into a working plan for maybe the next meeting. It's probably the best suggestion we can probably do and just postpone it for now. With that being said, we probably can just move right on to New Business. Under New Business number 2. KAUKA: Chair,just before we move on to the next item. Just for clarity, we, the Commission, has no singular plan as a collective that they are considering at this moment. So, on the next meeting, it will be again,just a review of all the draft plans that are submitted. And that's fine? Just to be clear. KOSSOW: Yeah. KAUKA: Okay. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I move we work off of Kossow Draft 12 as our working plan. KOSSOW: Okay, motion's on the floor to work on Kossow draft plan number 12. Is there a second? YOSHINA: Just for discussion, because I need to have clarification. What map is number 12? KOSSOW: I guess we're not really in a discussion mode. We have to second it in order to get into discussion. YOSHINA: Okay. I second the motion. KOSSOW: Okay. We're open now for discussion, Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: So, who's map is CD12? I mean the map 12? KOSSOW: Map 12 is my plan. YOSHINA: Your plan. Yeah, but you had two plans, right? KOSSOW: Yeah. So, it's 12 not 2. 48 YOSHINA: Twelve (12) not 2, okay. KOSSOW: Any further discussion? (No response.) Okay. Mr. Kauka, would you like to call the roll? KAUKA: Okay, I'm going to ask Corp Counsel to just help guide this,just to be clear. But I believe just to be sure, the motion is to adopt Kossow Draft Plan 2, as the Commission draft plan. Do we want a motion though now, to postpone that? So, that it can be adjusted further at the next meeting? I think that if we're adopting it now, it becomes the draft plan. HUSTACE: Move to table. KOSSOW: Motion is tabled. MELLON-LACEY: This is Diana Mellon-Lacey, Corp Counsel. I thought I understood that it was to adopt it as a working plan. So, I suppose if we clarify it's a working plan for further modification, then it wouldn't be considered a final plan. KOSSOW: I'm sorry. Mr. Hustace, your motion did say the words "working plan", correct? HUSTACE: That's correct. KOSSOW: Yeah, so it is a working plan. Yeah. MELLON-LACEY: Then I think it's okay. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. MELLON-LACEY: And it was 12, not 2, Mr. Kauka said too, but it's BK12,just to be clear. KOSSOW: Correct. MELLON-LACEY: Okay. HUSTACE: And I think under a guidance, it was tabled for discussion for next time as well. I know it's only a working plan, but it tabled for future business, correct? KOSSOW: Either way, we can bring it back to the floor so that we can work on this map as our working map. What are you thinking it is, Mr. Hustace? 49 HUSTACE: I just thought there was the challenge, the motion on whether it was, so I just wanted to be sure that we could keep it on the agenda. I know it's a working plan but if we table it so that it's picked up next time. Either way is fine with me. KOSSOW: Oh, okay. So, yeah, basically this would just be the working plan, working draft. So, it would be on the agenda no matter what until we get a two-thirds vote for the final product, from my understanding. HUSTACE: Fair enough. Then, I can rescind the table, and keep it active on the floor if we want, and have more discussion, and then call for a vote. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace, for that. Just to clarify, motion is still on the table. This is for a working plan. It will be on the agenda for the next couple of times. It was motioned by Mr. Hustace. Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. Do we have any further discussion? (No response.) Without hearing any, Mr. Kauka,please call the roll. Mr. Hustace moved for the Commission to select Kossow draft plan number 12 (BK12) as their working plan. Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. The motion for the Commission to select Kossow draft plan number 12 (BK12) as their working plan was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Akamu, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioners Bath, Lopez, and Lui. KAUKA: Thank you, Chair, you have five ayes. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Motion carries. YOSHINA: Just one point of clarification on this. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I'm sorry but this working plan 12, does that include all of the changes that we discussed? KOSSOW: I believe we can put those changes into place. YOSHINA: Ms. Bath had a number of things that she wanted. So, all that is included? 50 KOSSOW: We were just working on that. Do we know if that got saved? (Chair Kossow received a response away from the microphone.) It didn't save. Okay. Is there a way that that could be saved? Or is that something that—? (Chair Kossow received a response away from the microphone.) I have to make those changes. Okay, I'll work with Ms. Bath on that. YOSHINA: With that understanding, I still vote aye. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. So, do we have anything else regarding the draft plans? If not, I'm going to move over to New Business. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I move we work with a second plan as well. And I would like to propose my own, draft number 9 I think, as a possibility. KOSSOW: Alright. Okay, motion's on the table to add a second working draft, draft number 9. Is there a second? YOSHINA: Second. KOSSOW: Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. Is there any discussion? YOSHINA: I have a question for Commissioner Hustace. Can you kind of describe that again, for me? What was that plan 9? HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. This one, it's up on the screen now as well, I think. This one has some issues with Council's 4 and 5, that I want to address. But it tackles some of the possibility of a northern point. I think it is Honoli`i. This one kind of tackles that idea of a Honoli`i boundary for Council Seat 2. But therefore, it pushes Council Seat I deeper into Waimea. And Council 9, actually goes all the way to the State House boundary in northern Kona. But, open to discussion about this one. YOSHINA: Okay, thank you. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. KOSSOW: Any other discussion? (No response.) Mr. Kauka, please call the roll. Mr. Hustace moved for the Commission to select his draft plan number 9 as their second working plan. Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. 51 The motion for the Commission to select Vice Chair Hustace's draft plan number 9 as their second working plan was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Akamu, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioners Bath, Lopez, and Lui. KAUKA: Chair, you have five ayes. KOSSOW: Thank you. Is there any other discussion regarding the draft plans? (No response.) Okay. NEW BUSINESS (part 2) KOSSOW: Commissioners, this brings us to our last item. Back to New Business number 2. Mr. Kauka. KAUKA: New business item: 2. Update of progress on the request of Corporation Counsel to petition for an extension of time for the Commission to submit its final redistricting plan KOSSOW: Thank you. Commissioner Lopez is not present today, and he's requested this. Perhaps Deputy Corporation Counsel could provide clarity. Ms. Mellon Lacey, thank you. MELLON-LACEY: Yes. This is Diana Mellon-Lacey of Corporation Counsel. I know that the Commission did vote that they wanted to explore the possibility of extending the deadline to the end of January, for the map to be submitted. KOSSOW: I'm sorry. Go ahead and turn on your mic. MELLON-LACEY: Oh. It is on, I think. Maybe I'm not speaking into it well enough. Is that better? KOSSOW: Yeah, that's better. MELLON-LACEY: So, I know that the Commission voted to explore the possibility of extending the deadline to the end of January, while at the same time, trying to continue with the draft timeline that was developed by the Elections Office. I did discuss this with the Corporation Counsel, Ms. Strance. Really, there's not a way to change the deadline and the—it's not like someone has the authority to give you the right to not meet the 52 deadline. I believe that the letter was drafted and provided to the mayor that this Commission felt that it was challenging to try and meet this deadline. But at this time, we don't know whether you'll be able to meet it or not, and you have to make best efforts. If you are unable to meet it, you're unable to meet it and we'll have to deal with that. But it's not like there's a person that can say, okay you don't have to meet it. You have to continue to make the very best effort that you can, to do so. Really, the Charter doesn't have any statements in it about what happens if you don't meet a deadline. But it's not good for the County as a governing body because it's governed by its Charter, when we fail to meet deadlines. So, that's the update that I have. KOSSOW: I'm curious, what happens if we don't meet the deadline? MELLON-LACEY: Well, you would still have to finish. I mean, you would have to try to finish it as quickly as you could. That's what I'm saying. There isn't any specific penalty contained in the Charter document itself, if a deadline is missed. From the standpoint of government, if we were a County that missed deadlines on a regular basis, it could affect our credibility, or perhaps ability to obtain monies, or you know, because we don't look like we run ourselves properly. Clearly, in a situation like this, it would be mitigating reasons, but the best thing to do is do our very best to try and meet it. If we are unable to for some reason, then when we get closer, we'll certainly make the Mayor and people aware of the difficulty. But I think at this time, this Commission is progressing, and I believe the Commission could meet it. It's not like I would say, oh there's no way. But that's a question the Commission has to consider. Because just as you'll have to carefully have justification for your plan, and why you do what you do, if you are unable to meet it, we'll have to have justification for that. At the end of the day, I think producing that plan could pose real burdens for staff too, over the holidays. From what I understand, people are very prepared to put in this effort to try and produce the product. So, that's about all that I can say. It's not like somebody's going to come out and do something horrible to you if you fail to meet it. But we would have to continue to make the best effort to get it out as quickly as we could. But we don't want a bad product either. So, here we are. KOSSOW: Thank you. Is there any other questions for Ms. Mellon-Lacey? (No response.) Alright. Thank you, Ms. Mellon-Lacey. Appreciate it. YOSHINA: Mr. Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I just have a comment. I think we should all, all us Commission guys, should just commit to getting it done by the deadline. I think we should do that, and I think we can. We're on a good track right now. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you. 53 PORTS None. REFERRALS FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION None. ANNOUNCEMENTS KOSSOW: Alright, Mr. Kauka, if you can go ahead and read the announcements. KAUKA: Sure. Thank you, Chair. Our announcements today are that the next regular meeting of the Commission is scheduled for Tuesday, November 23, at 9:30 a.m. The Commission has sent an internal deadline of December 9, to determine its draft plan. The tentative dates for public hearings upon completion of the draft redistricting plan, which shall be one each in East Hawaii and West Hawaii. These tentative dates are Tuesday December 14, and Thursday, December 16. Further details will be provided and publicly posted when we confirm that. Just as a continued announcement, archived videos of past Commission sessions from the September 23 meeting, are all available on the Commission's YouTube channel. An easy way to find that on YouTube is to search "COH Redistricting." That's all the staff has, Chair. If any other Commissioners have any announcements. KOSSOW: Is there any other announcements from the Commission? (No response.) ADJOURNMENT KOSSOW: May I have a motion to adjourn? YOSHINA: Move to adjourn. KOSSOW: Motioned by Mr. Yoshina. YADAO: Second. KOSSOW: Seconded by Ms Yadao. All in favor say aye. (Various Commissioners say aye.) Okay. This meeting is now adjourned at 1:20 p.m. Thank you, everybody. Respectfully Submitted, Nicole Bello, support staff to the Commission 54